The Watch - Have the Oscars Gotten Their Groove Back? Plus, ‘The Regime.’

Episode Date: March 12, 2024

Chris and Andy talk about Sunday night's Oscars ceremony and how it seemed to cement the next generation of stars (1:00), as well as other standout moments from the broadcast, like the "I'm Just Ken" performance (30:57). Then, they talk about the first two episodes of ‘The Regime’ starring Kate Winslet, and the difference between when a show is “bad” and when it’s just not working (55:47). Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Stand up and walk now. Hello, and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at the ringer.com. And joining me in the studio, he prefers Ken's earlier stuff. It's Andy Greenwood! When Ken was in Velvet Revolver.

When Ken was, when Albini was engineering those Ken recordings. Yeah. You know? Hey, buddy. Hey man How are you doing? I'm great. We have a lot of culture to talk about today. We sure do.

We're going to talk about the Oscars a little bit. The Oscars as television. The Oscars as reflections of taste. The Oscars as the mind killer. And then we're also going to talk about the second episode of the regime. Let me chat about some other stuff. I can't really say. We're recording this before we talk.

So who knows? Well, I feel like we did just get warmed up. Oh, you know what we never did? We never talked about the Fallout trailer. And I want to say to all those who I never watched it. But I said we're going to talk about the Fallout trailer. Oh, you want to do a little

underneath the hood? Yeah, no, I feel bad because the number one thing that people may know about the podcast last time is at the beginning I laid out the table of contents, and then we didn't fulfill our unsolicited jump in. And then I put together the title and description

of the podcast based on sometimes what Chris says at the top. Yeah, so it's like today's podcast. It doesn't always stay true throughout the course. My nicotine consumption. Do you think Joe Burrow really voted for Trump. It's going to be our most successful podcast ever. What's up with you? How are you doing? You want to talk about the fallout trailer that I have not watched now for two consecutive?

It's okay. We can talk about it some other times. I think that just so people should know also behind the scenes that we, just before we hit record, we were working on our hard rebrand as just like, you know, just regular guys. We think stuff costs too much. We're just men of the people. That's going to be our new pod. Andy, so last night at the Oscars, I would say that, My initial sort of like feelings about it were really dictated by the earlier start time combined with the daylight savings, which I think created a bit of a jet lag for me, a touchiness and impatience. But it kind of melted away over the course of the show.

Just like the 6 milligram Zinn packet, he tucked into your cheek around the time the Native American drummer started. I'm a three guy. And I've read some articles that suggest I may be getting gum lesions. This is the funniest thing to me. sweet beautiful boy. You're so smart about so many things and you're like, huh, this ninth different way they've tried to get me to ingest nicotine might not be. It's so much less expensive.

Healthy for me. You were so trusting. You're like, they're looking out for me. Yeah. My good friends in the Carolinas. Alfred Zinn. That's it. As he farms these pouches from... Ephraim Zimbalist actually invented this. Okay, so you started slow. I think I had like almost like a sense.

of jet lag, which was, I think, much had more to do with, like, daylight savings and, like, the 4 p.m. start time. I know that also caught you by surprise. It sure did. Now, I'll say, I've said this every year since 2013, that the daylight savings thing is absolutely a crock of shit. We need to. Do you know how popular Uncle Joe would be if he just outlawed that? Sounds like you agree with Oklahoma Senator James Langford, who wants to get rid of. About the border? I do. He wrote a nice bipartisan bill. I want to get rid of it. of this. Yes, and especially as a parent who still has a child that comes into his room to wake him up at three in the morning to say, because here's the thing, when you get the wake up, any parent,

when the child comes in, it's going to be one, generally it's one of two things. One is, I'm sick and you don't want that one. The two is I had a bad dream and that one's easier to manage. What do you say when they say I have a bedroom? You take this in pouch. You tuck it, you open your mouth, You tuck the pouch in. Uncle Chris left these around the house. No, no, you know, you're loving and supporting, but you do it like you're steering them back into... You know, you know that meme where it's like the old lady being like, you know, we used to watch TV with commercials and it's like, okay, grandma back to bed. You literally do that with the child.

Okay. This one was a new one because she came into the room and said, I said, oh, hey, what's going on? And she said, I don't like it when everyone's asleep. Interesting. I was like, I understand you have now changed the paradigm successfully, because now no one is asleep. Anyway, I was really thrown. You told me, because you sent me what I thought was like an innocuous, we're just joking about the Oscars here thing. And I was like, ha ha, I cannot wait for 90 minutes from now.

Yeah. So this was a thing that was talked about. Yes. They were going to move it up earlier. Obviously, it benefits the East Coast tremendously to have this being over by 11. I think that they probably, if I had to guess, I don't know. Take what me and Andy say with a great assault. Like, if you really want the nitty-gritty,

I highly recommend listening to Big Picture. They did an amazing job covering award season all the way up to and through the Oscars. And their podcast went up last night. And Amanda and Sean nailed a lot of their predictions. Like, it's kind of getting to the point where it's just like, you could just look at their... Not for animated film. Not for animated film.

Not for best actress. Well, okay. I went through with a red pen. Okay. Did you make any predictions? I got to stand up for this podcast, you know? I think that what we do is we bring like just kind of a goofy sensibility. You know, just to kind of look at life from two feet to the left.

Do you know? Yeah. However, on Stick the Landing, Kaya and I were really prescient about Francis Fumble with what to nominate for their selection for Best Foreign Film. What's on Stick the Landing this week? You want to talk about it now? Never mind. It's you. You're on it.

It's my finale. Yeah. Okay. So, yes, there was some confusion over the time shift that they did, the start time. But all in all, enjoyed myself watching it. You know, once you really get into the flow of it and the tweets are flying, this is still like I still got the social media second screen thing going while this is happening. Most other things, I'm very kind of like Catholic.

Your church is like to kneel down and really just watch the Super Bowl, you know? On your knees. Here's my big takeaway, though. I'm excited. To me, last night was this coming out party for finally a kind of newer generation of stars that I think, obviously, there was a delay where it was like COVID and you had the Soderberg train station Oscars and kind of getting our feet back underneath of us. but I think probably the combination of the two most sort of celebrated or at least you know the most popular films going into the night being Barbie and Oppenheimer having some presence there even if Barbie didn't have like a huge one brought some eyeballs

or it felt like it brought some eyeballs and then on top of that you know when we were growing up we were like Jack Nicholson's always in the front row and Meryl Streep's always bantering with the host and there's like Billy Crystal and like there was a feeling of like enthusiastic participation from Hollywood in this night. And then I think during the superhero era, and this is no fault of the superheroes, but from like, I don't know, like the last 10 years,

it somehow felt like the Oscars were happening in the shadow of Hollywood rather than as Hollywood's biggest night. Right. A little bit to me. And so it was cool to see a bunch of people who are making pretty good movies at a bare minimum,

actively and passionately participating in the night. Now, at the end of the evening, when Kills the Flower and Moon doesn't win anything, is it like, Oscar's going to Oscar? Absolutely, you know? But I did think that this was a nice meeting point of, like, pomp and circumstance

with actual substance and with, like, pretty popular big movie stars who are like, yes, like, our wares are on display and we're proud of them. So I thought that was like my big kind of I think that's a very good read of it, which I agree with. I think that we're going to be careful to separate talking about the Oscars as the TV show from Oscars as the arbiter of what's going on in in cinema, all caps, this town. I actually think that because, and I was struck by this again last night, this is a phenomenal year in movies. I think, and there was a lot of goodwill because of it. I could be wrong. I'm certainly, as he said, I don't track this with the rigor that Sean and Amanda do, but I did not feel. a sense of like a binary argument being formed along culture war lines or like this is the good one, this is the bad one. We're rooting for this movie over the other. It also helped that the Oscars

last night spread the wealth to a certain degree. And all the decisions, even the ones that I didn't necessarily, even if I was rooting for someone else in the category, I'm, I find it very hard to argue who ended up winning. Part of me thinks that a rare Oscars that kind of gets the big categories right, or at least as a very hard to argue, uh, who ended up winning. Part of me thinks that a rare Oscars that kind of or at least has enough to choose from that it's representing and celebrating great, great movies of the year and sort of where Hollywood is in a positive way, gives you an opportunity to consider what the show is. Yeah.

Like, I think some of the halo effect of people saying it was a great broadcast comes from the fact that they were good movies. So they were handed a safer deck. But I think that your point, if you're just going to start in the most macro read possible, of like the health of Hollywood, I think is a, I think you are right. I think that if you squint or even if you fully look at the, things with your eyes open, something else is starting to emerge. Like, for example, I think you're right that there are new stars and that there are new stars who are starting taking...

Yeah, there are people who are ever be... Gosling and Robbie and Emily Blunt and, you know, like even the sort of older statesmen now are like Ruffalo and Downey kind of even... People are excited to see them and there, and Downey's welcomed into the club in a different way than he had been before, a club that he kind of always acted like he belonged in. Sure. But also things like Zendaya coming out, like Zendaya is a huge star and a huge movie star.

She looks beautiful in her dress, and she sort of stops the room, and she's, what is she, 26 or something? Like, this is good. The other thing I would say, though, and I feel like we've been talking around this a little bit in as much as we talk about movies, is the biggest stars in the room last night, I would say, are Christopher Nolan and Greta Gerwig. And even Jorgos, which is insane. But Jorgos is now a brand, not to the degree that those other more famous successful directors are. Yeah. But not only did Poor Things win a ton of Oscars, poor things made. poor things made $109 million in climbing the box office.

Like, that's a hit. And this idea that, because Hollywood has always carried itself, like movies are director-driven enterprises, if and when they're not star-driven enterprises. This is a good thing, right? We were talking about this in terms of the box office, that, like, a Tarantino movie is going to make over $100 million. A Nolan movie could make a billion dollars,

even if it's a three-hour biopic. This feels like, yeah, we've arrived at, like, a pretty satisfying place. I mean, even, you know, there's, there's flops, you know, there are, whether it's Madam Webb or Ferrari, like, there's still going to be things that kind of, that kind of disintegrate on takeoff. But it does feel like legs are longer, like, you know, movies are sticking around a little bit more in the consciousness and that the, I think the variety is getting a little bit more exciting, you know, both in terms of like prestige stuff and also even blockbusters and just like popcorn fair.

So it is definitely, I thought, like, they got it right for a movie year that they couldn't get it wrong. Like, you can't Biff Barbie and Oppenheimer year. You know, like, you can't have a bad envelope or a slap or, like, the stuff that was threatening to become like almost like the virality of the moment was overtaking the significance of the movies getting awards. I would also say that I felt, again, it's been a joke for a lot of years, but there is truth in it. I am not the most avid cinephile. I don't see everything, although I saw more this year than I have in past years. You even saw some stuff that I didn't see. Oh, we're going to get to that.

I can't wait. But I did have a sense from last night's show that was a familiar feeling from some recent Emmys years, which was there's a reasonable sharing of the wealth here, things that are good are being recognized, things that aren't winning, found a level that makes sense. It doesn't feel like they were snubbed. It feels like they reached a point where they're getting, like past lives still might be my favorite movie of last year.

I wasn't under any illusion that it was going to win awards. I feel like it's phenomenal that it was there and that it was on that stage because it deserved to be and hopefully got some more eyeballs from that. I find it hard. I mean, I'm curious your take on killers because I really, really like that movie

and I would like to see it again and consider it more deeply. My general feeling about it is, and I mean this in, you know, I think that it is a movie that is very respected. I don't think it is a movie that was as rapturously loved, not just at the box office, but even by the people who vote on it as Oppenheimer or Barbie or poor things. I ultimately think that I think that Killers of the Flower Moon, not unlike the

Irishman, will stand the test of time in a way that many Oscar winners in recent history will not. And I think that people will go back to those films and draw things out of them the way we do for countless movies over countless decades that got little or no Oscar recognition. So I think Oscars are just one thing that helps a movie stand the test of time or helps prop up a movie's legacy. I don't really think that movie, in retrospect, to me, feels like it was made to win Oscars. It was a Martin Scorsese film about American violence and evil. And it was very long, which is totally fine. And I loved it.

and there are incredible performances in it, but it's not shocking to me that it came out empty-handed. Now, I think you could make plenty of arguments about whether or not, like, you know, because of the way voting works and because of the way these, like, the different groups of, like, within the voting bodies vote for things and the way in which, like, award season works

with the campaigning and everything, like, it would be nice, I guess, if there was more variety to, like, the below the line and above the line wins. Yeah. Although these things snowball. They do snowball, and I also think that one of the things that's sort of obviously like emerged in the last 10 years, if not longer, but I think more in the last 10 years is the precursor events and how much, when you go into Oscar night, so much stuff seems almost locked up.

Absolutely. And also just the one note on the... So I guess my point more for Killers of the Fly Moon was just like, I just didn't think it was going to win anything. Yeah, no, I didn't either. Except for Lily, who didn't? And we will talk about that. but I think that I completely agree with you. I mean, I think that it is an incredible intellectual and moral exercise and an artistic one as well.

And I think that what it has to say about this country and also about Scorsese, what he's saying about his own career and his own legacy of violence or of storytelling is profound. But none of that has anything to do with the Oscars this year to me. In terms of snowballing, I did want to say that, like, there's always an element of that. Like when I saw the nominees for animated short, none of which I had seen, and I saw one was based on a song by John Lennon, I was like, well, that is going to win. Yeah. Because I imagine a lot of the voters didn't watch all of them either. And I was like, I like the Beatles. I can't wait for the expanded Beatles cinematic universe coming from Sam Mendes.

I do want to talk about specific categories, but I also had a couple things that I wanted to run by you that I feel like there's a segue from what you just said about all the precursor events. Like, because this was a good Oscars, this was good. hosting was good, humor was good, the numbers were good, it moved, it didn't have any of the bullshit that I tire of. The, like, you know, tribute to automobiles and cinema for like 40 minutes when you don't even have the time to do that. Because it was good, I feel like it's an opportunity to say, well, what could you still change? Sure. To make it better. This is the Andy Greenwald Dune 2 approach.

But what if you just did this? No, I mean, it was good. Yeah, I know. But I deeply do think that maybe the Oscar should be earlier again. Now, I know that in the year, it used to be February. I was like, let's start them at three. Who's busy on a Sunday? The Oscars brunch.

Yeah. Because with the vacuum and the extension of the campaigning season, all these other events have rushed to fill the void and to be televised and to get these stars. And so I didn't engage this year. So this was the first Devon Joy Randolph speech that I saw, as well as the first time I've said her name correctly, apparently, and I apologize for that. But that sense that there's that inevitable march towards the people

who have just become clear as the winners is kind of a bummer, I think. I did think that when people were like, oh, the speeches were good, I'm like, the speeches were fine. But they weren't super surprising because the people weren't super surprised. Emma Stone seemed surprised. Emma Stone was the best of the night. Or she was really good at it. pretending to be surprised.

No, I think she was legitimately surprised, and I think that was the best speech of the night because of it. I thought she was amazing. But I do think, I do think bringing it, I think, I also wondered if one of the reasons why they pushed it into March, and again, Sean and Amanda would know this better,

was because traditionally all the Oscar movies came out in a glut in December. Some came out in January, right? Like there were some that were like getting nominated and they were not really in the years. That seems to be a thing of the past, as many winners over the last few years or a significant number of winners are now pre-Labor Day releases,

which never was the case before. Oppenheimer was a summer movie. Barbie, of course, also was a summer movie. So I wonder if that helps. When did Poor Things come out? Poor Things was a later release. Poor Things was a festival thing and then in theaters. Yeah, but poor things was in the ether for like since Telluride or whatever.

Yes, but it wasn't on Hulu until last week. I'll say this about the precursors. I find myself in a very odd spot where I know just enough to be, not knowledgeable but like conversant but I don't know enough to understand why like why this stuff is happening the way it is or why like you know Devon joined round off was just like nailed on

or why you know why Killian had no like there was nobody was going to top Giamati was not going to beat Killian or something like that like I think if you are online reading about pop culture you will see and can't help but be familiar with the precursor of

events down to the Film Critics Awards, the GILD Awards, the BAFTAs, like, everything. Because it used to be kind of more like globes than there would be this disconnect between the globes, which was like a cabal of like 17 people who decided they needed to have this person show up at the TV show so they would give them an award. Yep. Versus the Oscars. And then all this other stuff has sort of filled the interim, what is it, four months, three months in between the two things.

and now I'm kind of like I would love there's got to be a middle ground between the shock of we got the envelope wrong and this is shock pretty much from what people thought

you know and maybe it's like something as simple as like a hurt locker beating an avatar you know like it maybe there should have been or maybe it would have been shocking or awesome if Barbie had one last night you know what I mean

which I think if you give Nolan director and split it or if something it happened Yes. Well, I think the other thing that might help with that is, again, I know the reasons why we are at where we're at. But I think there should be five nominees again for Best Picture. Now, I'm sure people who have been paying much closer attention to it than I have will say that, like, it's easy to say that when a billion dollar movie wins Best Picture. Yes. And Barbie is nominated. I understand what the expansion was the reason behind it. Also, cynically behind the scenes, like 10 Best Picture Oscars means twice as many campaigns being run, which means, many more events, many more stars showing up to things. It fuels the industry at a time when it's not. It's like five more movies that get to say Academy Award nominated for Best Picture for their runs. So they can have like maybe holdovers in past lives get a little bit more exposure than they would if there was only five. A hundred percent, certainly for past lives.

If Greta Lee didn't get nominated and I think she should have in past lives and you're down to five nominees, past lives is not part of the conversation. And that does change the calculus of things. But I also was kind of excited thinking about what the five would be if you had gone down to five. And again, this is easy to have these conversations in a year when the ball was shared. It was a free-flowing offense, you know. And so like poor things and zone of interest and Barbie all got some trophies. I think everybody left feeling pretty good.

You know, even an anatomy of a fall, like that American fiction, all the big movies of the year seem to get something to merit their inclusion in the festivities. But if this year had been five nominees, it would be Barbie. What it? Well, here's my, I think it would be Barbie, Oppenheimer, holdovers, poor things, and anatomy of a fall or zone of interest? Going off of the general like consensus slash what had momentum to win awards when it was nominated for awards. I feel like in some ways it seemed like zone of interest was more of a late breaker. Yes.

Like I think almost if zone of interest. had been more widely available. I wonder whether or not it would have made a push in some ways or Glazer might have won director. Yeah, when you read the... Maybe it was just always Nolan's year and it was just locked up.

I think it was always Nolan's year, but if you read the honest Oscar voter stuff, which is always a little bullshit, the consensus was, Zone of Interest was the best movie of the year from people who were like snobby enough to respond to these things. Yeah.

So I think that may have gotten the fifth slot. That's an exciting list. And, you know, I think it would... So Killers of the Flower Moon wouldn't have gone. gotten nominated for best picture in this scenario. Or you swap in killers, but then you have these conversations. I think that's interesting.

I also think that if there was a criticism of the show, and maybe a lot of this just has to do with the fact that whether he fumbled a bag or this was intentional, when Al Pacino showed up and just opened the envelope, I liked the way they had, didn't have the clips from the nominated movies introduced. That always feels like an extra bit of business. Instead, as we came, I think, back from commercial. It felt a little anticlimactic. What I'm saying is, we have 10 nominees.

You have to give each one a little moment. He also seemed respectfully. Go for it. Like he could have used his in-punch. Do you think AOC could have lent him one? I just think, oh, man. I just think that he, do you want to talk about, like, Al Pacino specifically? No, what I wanted to say was, put a pin in that.

You have to get through 10 of them. A lot of these awards ceremonies, Golden Globes, usually does this. Like, someone will stand up and say, you know, a Nazi commandant, a wall, a garden. Welcome to the zone of interest, you know. And or whatever, hypothetically. And this time they just showed clips. Would you really say welcome to the zone of interest?

I haven't seen it yet. Is it not that interesting? I can't wait to see it. And this year, they didn't do that. But then they also, Pacino didn't list them. Yes. So it did feel like, I kind of wanted a little more celebrating and reminding. I just don't know whether or not there had been a, was there a prompter card?

I had no idea. For Pacino to be like, the nominees this year are. And then it was supposed to cut to like a guy saying, past live, zone of interest. Why don't you tell me what you'd like to have nominated? Michael Richards doing the movie phone voice. And then it would have cut back to Pacino and he would be like, oh, my eyes see up and I'm a lot. My eyes see. No one knew.

They thought he was going to do a bit listing the movies. Do you know the meme where it's like the two buttons and the guy's sweating? Yes. I do feel like that is the Oscar producers every year between like surprise and safety. The overall thing about this award show was that it felt like a really smart, professional, nimble job. Moving it early, made it end faster, even end early. Kimmel is the best we have at this in terms of it's just like a insider who is a little spiky, but he keeps it moving. He's a welcome presence.

He's a steady hand. Can we talk for a second about this? Okay, go ahead. But every so often, they just get itchy. And they're like, well, we've got to change something this year. And whether it was not having any of the nominees listed at the end, which may have been an error, or not showing clips of the actors who were nominated, but just having people who had never met them before talk about them. And it's just like, it's fine.

Because when Sam Rockwell is talking about Downey, it is gold. Yeah. Nicholas Cage saying that he would have done it. one of the best moments of the night. But Kihei Kwan being like, Sterling Brown, you were on This Is Us. How good for you to now be here. You are great. And he's like, thank you, man, I will never speak to.

You know, that. Yeah. But that desire to be like, we've got to fuck with something is strong. Yes. I thought Jimmy did a good job and moves things along. Here's the thing. So a very popular sentiment emerging on social media last night was that, that Malaney is running, that John Malaney became a host.

in waiting. Oh, yeah. And I have this to ask you. Mawaini was fantastic. As there have always been the Amy and Tina's, the Will Ferrell Kristen Wig, like, there have always been a, like, oh, what if, why don't they just have this person host? I don't know why they don't, and I don't know why they don't do it. But it does seem like there is a very specific quality that they look for in the hosts or that the hosts have.

I have a question for you. Okay. How much more famous is Jimmy Kimmel than John Malaney? I think that's a different question as to why he's hosting and not John Malaney is hosting. Well, Jimmy Kimmel clearly has pre-existing relationships with half the room. And also is, for as much as he has a history and comedy, it's almost like an institution of Hollywood at this point. His show has been like basically the staging ground for a lot of, like, of Hollywood for a long time.

Do you know anyone who worked in the writer's room of the show? Not during the golden years. Right. But I do kind of like, I think, I think Jimmy does a good job. I think Jimmy sometimes seems a little cynical about movies themselves. sounded like you're in Goodfellas for a second. Jimmy did a good job. No, Jimmy does a really good job.

I'm not criticizing Jimmy. Yes. I don't know, I know you mean about movies. I think that like it would be interesting to have like a different voice. I don't, Malini is... Like Karina Longworth? Do you remember this?

You feel like Jimmy his letterbox does not... Do you think Malini would do a good job? Well, I think there's a lot of interesting topics in there. I do think... And obviously, yeah. So Kimmel is, I guess, a friend of the podcast network. That's clear.

He's always been really nice in the brief encounters that I've had or we've had with him. But I do think his arc is fascinating because... This guy was the co-host of the man show. And, you know, when he got the ABC job, he was just, they were free kegs. And it was like, it was like, oh, it's breaking decorum. And for someone who was so far outside to become the consummate master of ceremonies,

is a remarkable arc. I think it's also worth noting that unlike someone like Malaney or other comedians who might be vying for the job, Kimmel's background was pure broadcasting. Like he loves broadcasting. He was a radio guy. who's a TV guy before anything else. And I think that that's a skill set that is very underappreciated

and very hard to find. I also think that we've learned over the years that the Oscars work very, very hard to project a chummy atmosphere of clubby conviviality, but it is a clubbiness. You have to be in the club. Hey, here's Marty. He's never won anything.

For real, even to get away with that. But to like, the room has to accept him as one of theirs. And I think that that, does play differently, there's a reason why Malaney is hosted the Independent Spirit Awards. You know what I mean? Now, that said, I think Mullaney wants to be in,

and I think he is the funniest and would be the funniest host, but that's not the entirety of, that's not all of the job. You think about when Letterman hosted, everyone's like, oh, Letterman is going to go from the concept outsider to the insider, and then I don't remember being as bad as it's become in

cultural memory, but it's not perceived of as a great win. So I would be excited to have Malaney. If Kimmel wants to keep doing it for five more years, I think if you were like, it's going to be this show for the next five years, I'd be like, great.

But I also think... I can't wait to see Jimmy Kimmel have to do a monologue about the beekeeper next year, you know? Are you going to go straight that for it? I think, look, as long as they remember that you need someone who's funny and can keep things moving as the host, that there's not going to be another like,

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Learn more at Wells Fargo.com forward slash active cash terms apply. Let's talk about some of the other big moments. Okay. Where were you with, I'm just Ken? Where was I? Like in the same way? Like, where was I? No, where did it hit you?

Did it hit you in the head? Did you hit you in the heart? Did you hit you hit you in the fields? Yeah, it was amazing. It was the highlight of the entire show. It was so good. It was so funny. I thought it really distracted from the Cheetos song.

There we go. That, Loki, the funniest thing of the entire night. Was that Diane Warren wrote the power ballad from the Flaming Hot Cheetos movie? Yeah. That was incredible. I also liked when John Batisse started singing

and someone was like, what is this from? And I said, Oppenheimer. Like, what if that was secretly the song? John Batiste wrote from like the perspective of the bomb? It's more fun to think of it that way. Yeah. I thought... John Batiste, welcome to the zone of interest.

That's who it's about. I think, Sean has said this, But, like, Gosling is so wild and so unique that if he decides to play, he's the greatest celebrity we have. And then just for years at a time, he's like, no thanks. Yes. That also adds to the mystique and makes him even more amazing.

The way that he's just so cool, but also incredibly charismatic and confident. He's a Disney kid. It's the Disney kid part. But he's the Disney kid, but he's also kind of weird and low-key. But, like, we all went along with him when he was like, I'm Tom Waits. And it was like, we get it.

Oh, that feels like a long time ago. But now it's like, you know what, man? I got eye makeup on. And I'm going to sing Just Ken with Slash and get this entire like pit going, singing along with it. He was great. It also made me think that perpetually one of the Oscars' worst blind spots is comedy. That it's okay. Like the fact that should be nominated for Best Song.

That should win Best Song. I'll say it. What did win best song? Maybe some people in this podcast are two. Billy Eilish thing. Yeah, you're too cowed by Big Elish to admit it. But, like, Ken's song's better. Ken song is more memorable.

I don't have, I literally have Billy Blindness. Like, I can't hum a Billy Eilish song. No. She seems like a cool lady. She seems happy. And she seems psyched to win her second Oscar. What is the first one she won for Skyfall or something? For the other one.

Spector. Time to die. No time to die. Yeah. I don't know Kai, are you a Billy Elish fan? This is a little on the nose to ask the younger person. I'm not like a super into her.

I think she's very talented, but... I'm not asking you to defend her. My daughter's... It connects. So I am not the target demo. But I, even if one was a big Billy Eilish fan, is that a good song? I don't know.

I'm on team. The Doolipa song was better. for Barbie. Yeah, dancing night away. I don't get... I mean, just because a couple of cool 20-year-old kids from Highland Park wrote it doesn't mean it's any less of like a cynical

Oscars Ballad. They're from Highland Park? They're from somewhere over here, yeah. Okay. Anyway, Ken's songs better. Comedy songs should be nominated. Like, funny songs from Adam McKay movie should have been nominated all these years. I hope that breaks the damn,

but I don't think it will. Okay. I can't name one of those songs. I just mean like, I assume there was one. I'm just trying to remember all the... Your face. Amazing original music. I guess I'm picturing Adam Scott and Catherine Hops.

doing the a cappella, what was it, November rain, whatever, at Step Brothers? Like, that should have won best song? Well, isn't the Stepbrother song what they used for In Memorium? Was that what Andrew Bocelli was singing? Yeah, but isn't that what John C. Riley sings? I don't think it's originally from Stepbrothers. I know that, but isn't it made famous by Stepbrothers? So you think that was the evidence of McKay's long shadow over Hollywood?

Well, at least in the musical component, yeah. All right. I loved it. I'm just Ken. So I thought Ken was incredible. I thought Randolph was incredible. It was really wonderful to see Giamati like crying.

I love her. I really... Shout out to the idol. God. I really, really wanted Jemadi to win. Best actor. Now... Over Killian?

It's tough. Again, I have no... I have no beef here. I think Killion Murphy is a brilliant actor. That movie cannot exist without that performance. That performance is... It's an incredible performance, but also if Oppenheimer is one of the most successful movies of the year, if it is hands down the best picture, the person who played Oppenheimer likely should win the award.

Sure. So I have no beef here. It's just that... That's why Jason Tatum's probably going to win MVP, right? Wow. Wait, that's basketball, right? Yeah, basketball doesn't exist as far as I'm concerned for another year. But I loved the holdovers.

I thought Jumadi was amazing. Yeah. And I thought that would have been really nice. Okay. Best actress. I have not seen poor things, as I've mentioned before. Kai, can you mute me? I just want Chris to be on an island here. As someone who has been supporting Poor Things from the moment I turned it on after the Oscars ended last night, your erasure, sir, is frankly disappointing. Poor Things is incredible. I loved it. I wished I'd seen that big screen.

Go off, King. Tell me all about it. Well, let, no, I'll let you catch up to the rest of us here on Bella Baxter Island. It's so funny. It's so good. It made me feel great about the movies because it's so, so weird. Look at you. You spent three and a half hours watching the Oscars and then two and a half hours watching poor things. Because movies are good.

Sure, man. It was great. But I was, I'm thrilled that she won because I'm a big Emma Stone fan. It is unquestionably one of the best performances of the year. I can't say the best. I haven't seen all of them. But it's... It saw Lily Gladstone, though.

I did. And I feel like this was a better leading performance. You know, again, I'm not going to... I'm not going to pick sides in your culture work, Chris. I think those lines are... I know, I appreciate that you're trying to muddy the narrative about yourself because you've got three zin pouches in your mouth and you're caping up for Lily Gladstone. So you keep them guessing.

I appreciate that. I've got like a photo gallery of the UFC fight on my laptop, but I'm... I'm also like, what's up? You're also posting the Joe Borough Trump picture of being like, I like one of these guys. I won't tell my CR heads which one. Gotta keep the army guessing.

No, I thought that Lily Gladstone was astonishing in a performance that is central to the movie, which is what you argue for in these things. But the Emma Stone performance is a bigger, which isn't always better, but a wilder and ultimately, I thought, stronger leading performance, as in the entire movie is her. And whether you believe this is by design or whether it's a flaw in Killers of the Flower

Moon, it is a two-hander at best in the sense that she and Leo are partnered in that movie and in that story. I obviously, without seeing poor things, it's stupid for me to comment too much. I would say that at least by my estimation, or at least from what I could understand, this was not like Anthony Hopkins beating Chadwick Boseman, what the fuck? Like, this is the kind of situation. And all the precursor events They were essentially neck and neck

But also look at the other awards Like the Academy Voting Ship If considered as a block Loved Poor Things It did not think very much of Killers the Flower movie Like that's why she won It's not necessarily because they were like Measuring screen time

Or just determining what is elite performance I think people liked one movie more than the other And so they gave the award to the actress in that movie Um Any other speeches? Any other like moments from the broadcast that you thought stood out particularly? Mainly because I just feel like

Just to circle like the Emma Stone thing was a surprise Like what we love to see I think I can say we in this case Is people who are shocked But then lock in and are amazing and rise to the moment And so that was the other reason why that felt great I thought I really loved cord speech I'm embarrassed I've not seen American fiction yet

But I know I did see American fiction thanks And oh did you really? Last night did you try to burn through it figuring I I only know court a little bit but he's a great guy and I was thrilled for him and a great speech

you know because I also think that's I think he I think he had me let's make 10 20 movies for 10 million dollars and then I think he like I would have tried to get even more creative with the numbers but then he landed it did he I think he did I was like

oh don't do math live on stage that is the ballsyest thing you've ever done No, but I do think that it's always a fine line between this might be, you know, if you get, if you're lucky enough to win an Oscar, of course you want to thank like your high school band teacher and all the people who got you there. But also you have three and a half minutes of just television time speaking to your peers and the larger world and you could say something. It's really funny. It's like you wonder how the, I would love to get like an actual like oral history of people being like, I thought it was, you know, I thought I was up there way too long. I couldn't believe I got played off. The being played off thing is such a hot button issue. But I wonder whether people are up there and they're like, holy shit,

like I get it off stage. Like, I have nothing else to say. I thought Emma Thomas felt like that when she won Best Picture. And she was like weirdly unprepared to be the one speaking. But it was sweet. Yeah. I always whenever like when we're the below the line awards and like sound editors win and then three guys get up and one guy starts talking,

I just lock in on the other two guys. because you know they're like, shit, shit. And you watch them feeling that because you know the first guy's not looking at the clock. My other favorite thing is like the guy who is like the like definitely like had it written into his deal

like a wee way best picture. My guy at the end. Charles Rovin with the rec specs on. He was looking at Emma Thomas like when I joined the academy, women were not allowed to talk. Like not to cast dispersions, but that's what his face was saying.

How could you tell you James Worthy's glasses on? Because he was like, Listen, when Bob Evans first schooled me on what being a producer is, I took this award with a drink in my hand. Then he got up there and he was like, boy, it's been fun making movies with you, Chris Nolan. It's one thing about Chris Nolan.

Fun. Real fun. I think that's pretty much it for me. I mean, like, I'm trying to think of like what else there was. Do you, did you, so was there any like, not strife, but like, did you watch the show? with your wife? I did. Did she have stronger, like were you pro,

was she anti-Oppenheimer, for example? Like, was there Do we get to the end? For much of the telecast, she was trying to get to the bottom of Kate Millington's Photoshop. So, as are we all. She had, it was, let's just say she was three screened it. She had the Oscars. She had Oscars social media, but then she was also doing a forensic

analysis of photographs of a woman with no hands. As she should. Which nobody has ever talked about, like, what if Kate Middleton had her hands removed? Is that the theory? Have you guys thought about that, Kaya? She had a hand-decky. to me. That was what she was doing on purpose. What if it was like to get like a really cool like Mad Max Fury Road like hand, you know, where you can like, or maybe she's like I got to get like, I don't know. I'm just,

I'm just throwing some ideas out there. I, I, so wait, Kai, we might need you on this. So the takeaway is that you call her Catherine to me. She's always Kate. No, I call her Kate. I did not know. When they were like Princess Catherine photoshopped her own photos, I was like, who's Kathy? When they signed off the tweet with like, Beth C, I was like, who's C? This just goes deeper and deeper. It's because in the old days when we were like going to Niagara

in these village, she was just Kate, right? When she was hanging out? Was she there? What if she was? No. But those guys, like, Harry and Will were fucking hanging out, right? Yeah, but not with us. Yeah, but like, I didn't know if Kate got down in the East Coast. Maybe she was at a stroke show.

I think she was like just on the second floor of No Malice Palace on Avenue B being like, That's a good vodka and soda. All right. I don't know why she's cockney now because I didn't have time to really prep that accent work. Sorry, Kaya. Yeah, what did you need for? So the theory now is that she photoshopped her hands?

The theory is that that photo is like not taken recently and maybe it was like photoshopped. I saw another theory on Twitter that her face was actually taken from her vogue cover from like a few years ago. She had her face taken off? They think she's either. The three, like, main theories I've seen are that either her and Will are getting a divorce and she's not around. Her medical issues are more significant than they want to let on, or she's dead. That's a wild. I'll go with three.

Because the ways are thrown back sparks. I'm going with three, but I think that she has broken through the existence wall and is still with us and is communicating on Twitter. You know? Oh, like McConaughey and his. You're like pushing books out of the shelf. I like the idea that because of the way you saw her throwing back big cans of sparks at South by Southwest 2005, you're like, she's here for a good time, not a long time, signed C. Me and C went and saw Mad villain at the fader for.

Incredible. Other things that I would say, I know this doesn't really resonate with your viewing patterns, but I did think that Boy in the Heron upsetting Spider-Verse was interesting. Meizaki not showing up. Wes Anderson not showing up. Look at those two kings. Yeah, I love it. I was shocked.

I can only assume Wes Anderson is cranking out two other fucking banging movies while everybody else is like... I thought he would show up. Has he ever? Well, has he ever been nominated? Oh, no, no. Budapest Hotel was nominated a bunch. And I don't know if he was there for that. But it just seems like this... I don't know how many Oscars he's going to win, you know?

So like him winning this one for a phenomenal short film that I loved. I thought that was interesting. he wasn't there. I was not surprised Miyazaki didn't show up. That's also one of those ones where it's like, Spider-Verse was one of the best movies of last year, in my opinion. It's all right, man. Those guys would be fine.

But they're fine. Whereas Miyazaki will also be fine. I thought that it was nice that that is a more. I think I would have gotten, like, low-key mad if Spider-Verse had won an Oscar and Martin Scorsese was forced to sit through like the entire night and just get Stonewalled. Spider-Verse was better than Killers the Fire Moon. Oh, come on, man.

Get yourself together. It was. All right. Have a word with yourself. I'm just, it was. It's cool. Why was, I'm not going to do this with you. It's cool.

I just think that if Marty had introduced the concept of the multiverse in terms of the FBI, you know what I mean? I don't ever want to hear shit from you again. When you're like, these movies, these superhero movies, it's like,

just remind you that you were like, 18 different Spider-Men flying around is more important the killers of the flower moon. Right, but this is me zagging the way you were zagging politically before. Like, you can't pin me down. I'm like the vulture from the Renaissance

and the opening action sequence of Spider-verse. You don't even know where I'm from or what language I'm talking. All right, well, nothing else from this show? You want to talk about this? I'm just looking at my notes. Oh, who should present best picture going forward? Let's talk this out.

So clearly, it's like we got to get a classic movie star. Bady, Harrison Ford, Pacino. Well, right, that's the idea. They feel compelled to do that. Like, they want it to be like, I'm not even sure.

I thought I saw something about, it's like an Oscar 50, something like that. Like, it's somebody who's won an Oscar in the last, you know, not 50 years ago, obviously. At least I hope not, because that means I'm getting incredibly old. But somewhat, like,

it's just like this idea that it's got to have this kind of senior class, if not, you know. Yeah, to like they connect this to the pantheon. of the Greats. Like, should Downey do it? Like, can we just, like, can we, can we bring the age down a little bit? Like, can we do, who should do it going forward? Merrill Streep?

Like, we need to get somebody up there. I think the Marvel's reunion. Like, all three of them. I'm just thinking, if you go from Downy. How about all the Peter Parkers? All the Spider-Men? All, no. We should let, we should let Madam Webb's spider girls a chance to give them a chance to shine.

Like, they never got to be in costume in the movie. Yo, Molini's joke about that was really funny. Bolini's joke was great. The whole bit was great. This is an interesting project. I feel like this is something either we should do or big picture should do

of like let's game out. Let's at least create the talent pool from whom they should be picking. I agree with you. See, one of the problems is that many people, you know, like DiCaprio, when's the last time?

Leo's won. Hold on one second. He's won. He's only won once. He went for the Revenant. He's nominated a bunch. But he also very clearly like, you could see from his no show last night.

Like, he doesn't. He doesn't participate unless he's there for reason. Well, he participated for Lily. He won best actor for The Revenant. You were right. We can just keep that bit of behind the scenes action in there. So, but like, my point being, Martin Scorsese is the greatest steward of cinema that we have.

Yes. If he comes out next year and gives away best picture, there's almost like a bitter irony to that. Yes, but he got his, you know. You're weird. What? I don't understand why you came up? Why are you pivoting against Killers of the Flower Moon?

I'm not. I'm like, it's fine. I liked Killers of the Flower Moon a lot. If I made a top 10, it would be in it. It would probably be in a top five. I'm just saying, I don't know why. For you, it would be across the Spider-verse, right? One and two, just to hold space for it.

Then pass lives. Poor things. Poor things, rocketing up my countdown. And then everybody's favorite musical comedy zone of interest. The dance number. it was surprising. I don't know why you're keeping up for an 80-year-old man

who is universally recognized as the greatest to ever do it. I'm more saying that you can't reel him out there as the fucking like grand dom of cinema if you're just like routinely like oh for 20 Marty, get the fuck out. What do you mean?

For like the departed. Did he? Yes. That's the only time he ever won. He's been losing for decades. No, I thought, sorry. I thought you meant the Irishman. Yes. He won for the departed. Yes.

For the like, here I'll remake a Hong Kong Why are you shitting on The Departed? I fucking love The Departed. My point is that you can't ask these people to go up there and be like, Oscars if you never fucking give them Oscars. But he did. So one doesn't count? He sound like a Patriots fan talking about Super Bowls.

Do you feel like Jeffrey Lurie won't get in the Hall of Fame because he only won one Super Bowl? I don't really. All right. I'm trying to solve the problem, which is that we are running. out of best picture presenters. This is the correct take. And you're right that Downey could do it. And so far in the last few years,

you just keep putting these old white guys out there and they're like, oh my God, what the fuck? They just seemed like they just woke up from like cryogenic sleep. You got to have somebody up there who's got a little bit of pizzazzed to the end of the night. But it's really hard because to your first point

where we started this conversation two years ago, we have lost Hollywood is no longer like a clubby party which is either good or bad depending on your perspective about it but Nicholson showed up year after year because it was a fun party

and he was the president of the club let me just run through the last few you're going to know the last few but to finish the thought we don't have very many of those people who will show up regardless anymore A B that was and that goes back to my original point where I was like

it did seem like we have established a new like senior class of like this is cool we're going to hang out We'll do the bits. We'll participate. And they need that because otherwise there's a lot of churn. And some of the churn is like, we got to get kids watching the show if we're not nominating

Super-year movies. That's how you wind up with Bad Bunny giving Zone of Interest in Oscar. A billion percent that. The other thing is you get stars now, not because they want to hang out at the chateau afterwards. You get stars because they're promoting something. So that's why there's the Fall Guy cast is presenting an awarders and Dea is there because Dune is in theaters and Challengers is coming. So you have to balance that with the fact that there should be a sense of people coming back,

which, by the way, I didn't love the tributes, as I've already criticized, but getting Sally Field and Jessica Lang and Ben Kingsley, like, reasons to be there so that you do feel like, and the actors come up and they're welcomed into the club. That's a good thing for the continuity of this. So give me the list. Well, no, it doesn't, it's what I said. Pacino Harrison Ford the year before that. That was everything everywhere all at once.

Lady Gaga and Liza Minnelli gave it to Coda. I feel like I've completely forgotten the 22 Oscars. Cota won best picture. Rita Moreno gave it to Nomadland. Nomadland. Jane Fonda gave it to Parasite. Julia Roberts gave it to Green Book. This is incredible when you're saying this.

Warren Beatty and Faye Dunaway did two years because of the moonlight fiasco. Then they came back and did Shape of Water the next year. Shape of water. And that goes back to 2015 when Morgan Freeman gave it to Spot. spotlight. Okay. 16. Sorry.

And I know 2016 is a big year for you. Yeah. I moved to L.A. What else happened? Why? I think they're in a bind. I think they're in a bind, honestly. But I think they're doing their best.

I do think that it's a good... Because you also want people... I was trying to think of a way to tie this in with my point about like if directors are the stars now. But Nolan isn't exactly like the most exciting guy to put on camera to come out and present something the next year. Maybe Greta and Noah could come out and make Brighton the Corners jokes.

Brother, I would love that. Decaprio to me, even though I think he does have a strange relationship to the Oscars. Or Brad Pitt. Brad Pitt. You could do Pit and Clooney. You could do, I mean, there's plenty of people that you could get up there. But I just think that all due respect to our geriatric kings, I think that Al Pacino could have done a better job last night. Wow. So some elderly get protected by you and some don't.

So it's interesting. It's kind of like your views on the November election. Someone's really old and someone who's functionally the same age isn't. So Pacino no, Marty, yes. Interesting. I thought you wanted to talk about Jesse Plymins glow up. The picture of Jesse Plemons, Kirsten Dunst, and the anatomy of a fall gang smoking was the best picture of the night.

it's cool that they have a smoking. I couldn't tell what Kirsten Dunst was smoking. Like, was it a Virginia slam or a roll-up? But it just fills my heart with joy that people are still light heaters. As the podcast advocate for nicotine, do you think that we can credit cancer sticks with one of the reasons why Jesse Plymins looks so damn good, so sveled? Do you think instead of reaching for like that extra mountain dew code red?

Do you think that Jesse Plemons drinks a lot of code red? I'm just wondering, like, what's he reaching, like, instead of whatever, he's just, he's just firing up a... Who can say how these guys out there lose weight these days, you know? Yeah, it's all natural. That's one thing I know for sure. And by the way, I'm not accusing Jesse Plumns of being on OZempic. I just want to be clear. You're not?

Chris was. Okay. I think it's great. You should do whatever you want, really, honestly, like with your body. That's why I have Zim pouches. Jesse Plymins wants to take OZempic. He is more than welcome to. you starting this rumor.

Come on, man. I'm not starting any rumors. Don't aggregate Chris. Just saying, big Jason Tatum fan, Chris Ryan. These Oscars are tearing us apart. Well, somehow I'm like the world's biggest Celtics fan and Trump supporter. And you hate fucking Martin Scorsese. Not the biggest.

Because you have a Spider-Man poster in your room. It's a good movie. Why can't I like both? I can't tell if this has been a good episode. I've enjoyed it, but it's interesting. How long we've even going for? Six hours. Really?

Okay. Yeah. Interesting. All right. Coming back in, should we talk a little bit about the regime before we go? I think we need to. I think our silence has gone on long enough. No.

I mean, last night was the second episode, so I think we are now addressing it the night, the day after it aired. I'm just trying to win Soche, man. I'm just trying to... Boy, I don't know what to make of this show. Last night, I thought, was... end of last night's episode. So last night's episode was called the Foundling.

Same, more or less same creative sort of big names, freers, Tracy working behind the scenes. I thought last night's episode, this is spoilers for the second episode.

It ends with the sort of deep state of this country, unnamed country, deciding to, rather than tear down Herbert, the butcher, the guy played

by Sean Arts, that they're going to build up this mythology around him by linking him to the country's mythology itself. So they're going to say that this guy is a genetic descendant of this very important figure in this country's intellectual and emotional mythology, that he is somehow like a savior. And I think that their hope is that this kind of new spotlight on this guy drives Ellen a crazy

and that she's like, I'm going to get rid of this dude now. Because he's come in, he's got his rat. he's got his relishes, he's got his folk cures and they don't like it. They don't like it because it's fucking up their money. So I thought that at the end of the episode and where that was going and the direction

it was pointing in was cool. And I think that that has legs. I had felt like up until that moment that a lot of what I had seen felt like an expanded riff on what's in the trailers and like basically like to some degree a bit

of this discordant pair of notes, which was highly specific British humor about power and class and all these other things, and very much rooted in like a rhythm and a patter that I think we're very familiar with that we've talked about, the Inuchi tree coming out of that.

It felt like, you know, a thick of it succession kind of romp. But insisting on this like Central European former, possibly former Soviet, but possibly not like, you know,

Hungary, Romania, Ukraine, country that has a lot of the same geopolitical issues that those nations have in real life and having this very...

I like that you're just shouting out my lineage. Just like, just name in places in the family tree. Respect. Go on. Do you think of disrespecting

Eastern Europe? No, I'm the foundling. Like, that's me. Go on. But are there lots of different foundlings like Spider-Men? It depends. Yeah, it depends which regime verse you're engaging with. Andy, my point is, is that I find the kind of,

I think I'm a little bit confused by like where this show is going. And how this show is getting there in terms of, in terms of like the specificity of its accent versus the specificity of its content. I couldn't agree with you more. I think that the show is actually a great teaching moment for us to have a conversation about the difference between things that are bad and things that are not working.

That's a really good point, then. Thanks, buddy. What this show makes me think of, and you know, you can tell spring is in the air out here, is what if Bryce Harper goes 0 for five? And what if someone at the end of that game is just like, well, he had good at bats, technique was good, eye on the ball,

he just didn't deliver. Runners on scoring position, he struck out. Yeah. That doesn't make him a bad player. It doesn't mean the strategy was bad. It just didn't work out. And that is my number one takeaway from the show, which has incredible DNA. Pedigree.

And pedigree and talent and clearly budget and production. And it, I think we said this last week, to my eyes, it seems to be doing what its creators intend. You don't get that feeling that sometimes even we can pick up as audience members of like, this went off the rails or this was noted to death or it got chopped up in post when different people got their eyes on it like it seems to be it seems to have like integrity i don't mean that it's good for the world but i mean it is not uh it it it is the that some total of the parts that were put into it it but it's just flailing at the plate to me in a way that makes me kind of not want to say like no harm no foul see you guys on the next see you guys in the next road series but like this one

isn't working for me because on a fundamental level, I do not think the show is funny and I don't understand what it's satirizing or to what end. It is, it is an, it's like a hat on a shadow, on an abstraction in terms of how far it is removed from something that would make a hat on a hat kind of thing. It started as one, then it kind of flailed and then it became, Chris, actually a Hungarian expression that you refuse to acknowledge. But I bring that. You know, I mean? I bring that central European perspective to the podcast. I always have. No, I will not be using that analogy again. But what I mean is, if this was just a place, like a recognizable place, maybe we could be rooted in something in a way that would allow the comedy and the satire

to take root, to feel close to home. Instead, when we just have like urns full of smoking potatoes, I'm like, you guys are off the map completely, not just in terms of it's not a real place, but just in terms of this logic makes sense to you. And I think Will Tracy was making himself laugh. But I don't understand the return on a line-to-line basis. There was some really good darts. I thought when Martha Plimpton showed up, I was like, oh, like the outside world, let's get this going.

Like, I'm really enjoying her reactions to the insanity in here, you know, while still trying to get what she needs to get out of the situation. there's a pretty awesome Kate Winslet performance in here and it's her speech about America having its way with this country for years. And now it's time for them to pay up and it's time. I thought that that whole exchange was very good.

And there was a kind of chaotic daffiness to Matthias Schoenhardt's trapping Martha Plimpton in that room and just being like you will never control us again. You're never going to be in control again. Yeah, beautifully shot. Great big rooms to, Chase for three.

Maybe that's it. Maybe there's just not enough outside POV in it coming into it. I think the scene that threw me off heavily was like the four or five of those guys sitting in a bar discussing what to do. Yeah. And it's like we all do respect like a very generic looking set of like a bar. Which I think was partly the, I think that's intentional. Is it? It's like that's their kind of like bunker of normalcy.

Okay. For like the guys who just want to kick back and talk about their bizarre kleptocracy that they are. participants in. You know, it's interesting. There's a tremendous amount of exposition in that scene where the people are being very like, and then she's going to do this, and she's been doing this. And then there's a tremendous amount of like kind of mystery or not particularly

like confusing, but like the Andrew Reisborough, Kate Winslet, dual maternity of this child, like the idea that Shone Arts and Winslet are existing in each other's dreams somehow and the kind of poetry to that. kind of almost like mystical quality. I find, I mean, there's like stuff there that I'm grabbing onto, but it's still very, it's just such a bumpy ride for me. Well, I also think that our, the fact that we generally like stuff like this.

We generally like the work of the people involved. Everything about it. Everything about it. Is keeping us a little bit engaged in a way that might actually exacerbate the frustration because we keep giving it and we're not really sure we're getting. You never know when a Spider-Man is going to jump through the window and save the day, you know? But some of them aren't saving the day. Do you know what I mean?

Like some of them are saying that it's more important to protect the integrity of the multiverse than to save your particular Uncle Ben or police captain, depending on the circumstance. That's why you can't just assume they're there to quote unquote save the day like they would be in a more traditional Martin Scorsesee film.

Well, with great responsibility, it comes great power. It's actually the... I know, I was doing the Madam Webb version. It's actually the other way. Madam Webb, I do not recognize in the Spider-Verse. Interesting, that you don't. Because it was real bad. Hugh Grant is in the show at some point.

Isn't he the dead body? Oh, they're going to do flashbacks. He's the father, right? No, no, no. He's the deposed ruler who's living in exile. Okay. So he will be there at some point. That makes me kind of want to see those scenes.

But also, just like, is this doing, do you remember the mouse that roared? Does that ever play that you did in your school? No. Or a movie that you've seen in the 50s, Peter Sellers. It's basically like the sort of satirical play. It was like it was a big middle school hit. It was basically like a small country declares war in the United States.

because then it will figures it'll get attention. Yeah. Like is that kind of what we're doing in a modern media setting? It's interesting ideas, but I think they're swinging through and missing. We can wrap it up there. It's been a really invigorating podcast with you. Ruckus. Yeah.

Now at the end of the podcast, now that everyone is completing the show to 100% completion rate, right? Yeah. Do you want to talk about stick the landing this week? Why did you want to save it to the 64th minute? Well, I just thought it was weird. Like, we were on a roll. I thought we had a lot of places to go. I will be on Stick the Landing this week.

We were talking about eastbound and down. Yeah. That was fun. That was fun. I'm glad you enjoyed it. What's going on with us? I was just making sure. I was like, it's your pod.

You know, I want to do a good job for you. It's our pod. Kaya is a stakeholder as well. And then Thursday, we're going to do Shogun. And I would like for you to watch a little bit of the, the show The Gentleman on the Netflix Broadcasting Corporation. That's fine. Yeah. It's very entertaining.

Chris, what was that, what's up with that watch ad during the Oscars? With watches? But like, I haven't Googled this, but, and I'm not a... Not our podcast. I'm not a watch guy. Right? I mean, I'm on the watch. But no, no, there was an ad that played a bunch of times during the Oscars where it was intercutting clips of famous people wearing watches in movies, like Ben Affleck and Argo, with what appeared to be made up

movies? Like, were all those clips from real movies? I think a bunch of them were. But, like, Helen Mirren in space, wearing a Rolex? Was that a real movie? I thought you had... Does she go to space? I think Helen Mir went to space in some movies.

I'm sure she's, quote, unquote, been to space. But, like, I don't know if there's a famous movie where she wears a watch in space. That's the, uh, the Gold of My Ear sequel. That would be sick. Space Golda. Gone, Golda Gone. Gone. That is so cool.

I thought you'd be more prepared for this. I'm trying to think of the other ads. They didn't really have any like banger ads to me. I mean, the Riley Keo miniseries on Hulu got advertised. They did a nice... With Lily, Lily's in that. Minute long showgun commercial. It was sick.

Yeah, FX put some money. Challenger's ad, but, you know... That's the sexy tennis movie. It's sexy tennis. Yeah. Boy, we really, we killed it today. Do you think... Thanks for playing.

Do you think when you get really rich soon, you're going to become a watch guy? No, I'm never going to become a watch guy. Yeah, me either. Yeah, I can't... I still consider myself a writer. And it's hard for me to type with a watch on, even with my Fitbit. So the idea is if you're wearing a big watch, you're just... You don't need to work with your hands.

Is that the takeaway? Is that why people wear watches? I find it very difficult to type with a watch on. Yeah. Also, I think it's overkill because I can tell what time it is by my phone. I can tell by looking at the... position of the sun in the sky. Yeah, but what happens when it's daylight savings?

It probably throws off your inner sundial. That's why I'm acting this way today. We're done. I'm finished!