The Watch - If 'High Fidelity' Can't Survive in Hollywood, What Can? Plus, an Interview With Timothy Simons About 'Yes, God, Yes'

Episode Date: August 6, 2020

Hulu announced this week that it's canceling the critically loved show ‘High Fidelity’ starring Zoë Kravitz. It begs the question: What type of TV show can survive in the current television landscape (12:06)? Plus, we break down the most recent episode of ‘I May Destroy You’ (26:18) and an interview with Timothy Simons about ‘Yes, God, Yes’ and being a working actor during a pandemic (32:02). Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Guest: Timothy Simons Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I need sports to have to clear the room. Stand up and walk now. Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at The Ringer.com. And joining me on the other line, as always, it's Andy Greenwald. That's so nice and I'm back as always. Well, some weeks are better than others.

And, you know, it's really kind of tough times sometimes to dig deep for these references that I usually make in the intro because typically they are either way too obscure where they're about current events and current events are pretty charged right now. Oh, yeah, no, this is, that's right, this is a safe space. Andy, it's Thursday. I'm so happy to talk to you. Today on the show, we are going to be talking a little bit

about the cancellation of high fidelity, which I'm very disappointed by. The arrival, the imminent arrival, of the League of Their Own series on Amazon. We'll talk a little bit, I May Destroy You, and then the second half of the show, we were joined for a, just a rambling and rollicking conversation

with our good buddy Tim Simons, who you know from Veepe and you know from looking for Alaska and you know from Breyer Patch. I was going to hold you to it. Forget? No, yeah. Can't do that. And he is in a new movie called Yes, God, Yes, that we enjoy quite a bit. It's available on demand, you know, for purchase on demand.

But I highly recommend if you're looking for something to watch this weekend, it's really a delightful sort of coming-of-age comedy starring Natalia Dyer from Stranger Things. And so Tim's nice enough to come by. Talked a lot of get-up kids. Talked a lot about citrus. So it's just, it's what you want from a conversation. Tim is one of our best friends of the pod and just a friend in real life.

It's always fun to talk to him. Because we also talked a little bit about what it's like for an actor out there in pandemic Hollywood and pandemic America. And maybe we'll discuss this next week, but since recording the interview with Tim, which did get into street teaming for the get-up kids and meeting a guy named BMX Joe backstage at the firelight or firebird or whatever the hell was called in Chicago. I confirmed, as a journalist, I confirmed the story. You did, you chased it down. We can find this out later. It was accurate. He was not leading us on.

Andy, just a little admin before we get into the show today. I just want to let people know, I'm sure they're on the edge of their seats, but Summer of Dove is starting next week. So if you didn't hear us last time, Andy and I are going to take a little time at the end of the next four shows to talk about Lonesome Dove, both the novel by Larry McMurtry and the adaptation that came out on CBS, what, 1989? That was what we decided?

And we're basically going by order of the episodes in the miniseries, although a lot of our conversation is going to be dedicated to the novel. So if you've read the novel or if you've watched the show, if you want to watch along with us, we're going to try and stay within the guardrails of not going too far past what any one episode says, narrative-wise, about Lonesome Dove. But, yeah, Monday, Thursday, and then the following Monday, Thursday, you'll have Summer of Dove, Lonesome Pod updates for the folks who decided to go along on this journey with us.

Until then, Andy, let's talk a little bit about current events. Okay. First of all, how are you doing? You good? Great. Never been better. How about you? I'm okay.

What'd you have for lunch? I just thought you were just like, I need a little time to power up. I know. And I didn't do it on Mike because I don't know if you remember this, but there was a time when we were podcasting, as we often are. and your boy had a little bit of a protein crash, like a little bit of an issue, and I needed to just shovel something, just like an old-timey train operator,

just to keep the engines going. And that was unfortunately a day that we were sitting around the wooden table over at Sunset Gower with our buddy, Jason Van Zuckus, who never let me live that down. The Cardinal Sin. Because it was also like,

it was a weird choice. I had like a yogurt concoction. Sure. So I'm not doing it on my name. A little bit of a parfait. So, but basically, like, I, I am trying to be a real boy in the world. And so, like, I purchased a sandwich to eat as opposed to doing, and I don't mean to put her on the spot here, but Kyah was describing a lunch that she was enjoying that is much more

in line with the kind of lunch that, that you could, in my own case, I would blame on the pandemic, but really was the way that I ate as a freelance writer from 2002 to 2016, which was, I will take a small piece of cheddar cheese out of the refrigerator and a scraper and scrape one scrape of it and then go sit at my desk and then get up and have another scrape because as long as the lunch was an ongoing concern, I wasn't procrastinating. That feels very continental. My issue with home grazing, let's call it that, is, you know, I don't have kids, so I don't often have the healthiest food in the house. Like I have, it's a real, it swings. I love your vision of parenthood, by the way. We have

the Annie's bunnies in so many different permutations. You have them of cheddar, you have them of granola, you have them of chocolate chip. There's a rainbow gummy version. My point is like you could just be dining alfresco on various bunnies all

day if you had a child in your house. Early in Quar, my wife and I made a few interesting purchases. One of which was we tried and loved Zingerman's Pimento Cheese spread. Do you ever have that? So Zingerman's is like a cheese place in like I think in Arbor, right? It's like the everything of Ann Arbor. It's a deli that also sells like as gourmet

goods and they ship all over the country. It's a great place. So we got one tub of that from a spot here in Los Angeles and I was like this is an incredibly good cheese spread. Wow. And then we tried to order some and they were out and it was like a lot of things, you know, where you just sort of get really panicky about the supply chain. Oh no. So then when it came back in, we were like, well, let's get Ted. You know? Because they have a nice, a nice shelf time. Like, they can last, you know, it's not, it's not.

It's shelf stable. It's stable. So I have now been making my way through this. So every time I do what you're talking about, like, oh, I'm just going to get myself a little piece of cheese or something like that, I have to get into pretzel chips and Zingermans, which is just like a pretty intense, like, flavor combination. And also it's just like not, it's not, it's not. fuel. You know, it's more just like, I'm sitting back and I'm knocked out and loaded.

What's your pretzel chip? Are you doing the everythings? You're doing some like bold flavors? I go regular. Regular. Yeah. This is fascinating. I guess one silver lining of the global viral pandemic that has brought the entire world, but especially the United States to its knees, is he really get some insight into your chums. And you guys as, you know, socially acceptable, classy hoarders is something that I didn't see coming. Because, you know, I don't think this is spoiling anything to say that my wife and I have enjoyed a socially distant gathering with you and your wife. For sure.

And, you know, we're very responsible. We keep a good distance. And we each bring our own beverages and even cups. And when you brought a lovely wine over, you pointed out, I said, oh, what is this? It looks good. And I believe you said, yeah, we get them by the Sixer. Yeah. I just, because I just make runs.

You're like, like, ring it up. Do it again. I think that there's just, just like a sensitivity to the idea that there is like, and this is obviously like incredibly bullshit, bougie things to say about, just like products and cheese spread and gruner beltline. Yeah,

but like I think that I do have like a sensitivity to like, these folks might stop making this. Like they, and if it lasts, like let's get it in the building, you know? But there is a, there is a, there is a universal,

especially in, you know, whether, look, as you said, like this is a very privileged place to be, having this conversation from or point of view to have about it. But there's absolutely a hunger to be fed on numerous levels that exist in us during this really awful time. And that coupled with the desire to like have something to look forward to and just have. So I think I said this to you the other day. Like, you know, every day is a, you know, an exercise and managing anxiety and despair. But the other day, I had a little spark. I was like, what? Why do I have a little

pep in my step. What's going on? What's, what does a little old me have to look forward to? And I remember I had placed an order to re-up my deodorant. And I was like, that's coming soon. Yep. There's going to be a package with my name on it and it'll smell nice. So that got me through last Thursday. And similarly, I'm doing the same thing with McMurtry books where I will just send out a little pigeon, dare I say a dove. A dove. To, and this, Does this dove have friends or is it more of a solitary dog? Solitary pigeon. Yeah.

I send it, this is a free ad to the wonderful, wonderful skylight books here on the east side of Los Angeles. And I'm like, please, please literary buds, procure me more McMurtry because I can never have too much. And thankfully, he's a very prolific writer. And then I don't hear anything because, you know, it's not like doing it from Amazon, but it's supporting a local business. And then they, like, suddenly in two weeks, they're like, by the way, also shouts to the people at Skylight who I think at this point are judging me. Because wasn't the subject line of the email McMurtry

X3? Yes. When you forwarded it to me. The first time I ordered from them, they were like, thank you for your order, Andy. Like, we'll let you know when it arrives. And then it's like, your order is in. So I went and I was like, my order's ready. And they're like, oh, I don't see it. And then they went and conferred in the back. And some guy who literally just looks like us and, you know, sliding doors

probably is us, came out. And he was just like, oh, you had the McMurtries. Like he was, he's definitely a core McMercarthy. guy. So he just handed me like, it's as if I was walking Baltimore during the filming of the wire and someone was offering WMDs. And I was like, oh, that sounds too dangerous. Like, let me have your, your weapons of like slightly less destruction. Sure. And so now when I order for them, it just make merchie X3 times three. It's like, look, if this is what you want, we will shovel the slop in your shop. I got a guy. I got a guy at Archer. But the bigger point is whether it is

cheese spread or just like three 500 page books about Texas, there's a yearning. There's a yearning for stuff and it is comforting. Back in the day, Andy, I was known for my segways. A lot of people, many people were saying no one does segues like Chris Ryan. And then I think I kind of like lost, I mean, you know, I lost my fastball a little bit with that. But let me present this idea to you. Okay. Much in the same way in that I am hoarding pimento cheese spread. and you are hoarding deodorant apparently, deodorant and mercry novels. I smell great, guys.

Do we have that same sense of scarcity and desire for TV shows, you know, that might get canceled? Because, like, I was just, I was, you know, last night you hit me up after we had our socially distant hang in. I think you were like, was that last night beforehand or maybe after, but you were like, well,

flags at half mass, man, high fidelity. after one season at Hulu. This is a show, Veronica and Sarah, who were the showrunners on that show, came on the watch. We were very affectionate about it. I thought it got stronger as it went on. I thought it ended in a perfect place

where it was like, if this is a standalone story, that's fine, but I would love to hang out more with these characters. And I have to admit, I'm pretty shocked. And it's one of those interesting things

where I know you know this firsthand, if you knew that this was in jeopardy or if you knew that, like, this was a possibility, would there have been maybe a little bit more urgency around, I'll just catch it nine months from now when I'm hung over on a Sunday and I need to watch, you know, I want to binge watch something. Like I'm, this is a very specific case

because high fidelity, which we've talked about before, had a very interesting route to our screens. But what was your reaction when you heard that it was canceled? I was really surprised. I was just really surprised. Now, look, am I unbiased? How is my segue? that was really strong.

Thanks. You still got it. You don't have the same velocity you had when you were mowing them down on the Little League fields of your youth. But, you know, you still got it. Right. Also, all the first stringers have been deemed ineligible to play baseball at the moment. So, because they all went to Magic City. So you'll do.

I was really surprised. Now, let me also say I am, you know, slightly biased when it comes to, shows finding their footing being canceled after one season. Yeah, right. But I was really surprised on a number of levels. Level number one, I think, is what you were alluding to, even with your segue, this is the type of show that people have caught into and enjoyed and will continue to enjoy and discover during a time like this.

Anecdotally, when I've talked to people, even people like our good friend, Sean Fennessey, who spends most of his time, you know, watching obscure Danish cinema, really only wanted to talk about Love Life, you know, because that's what he's enjoyed. Like, that's comfort food right now. High Fidelity felt like it was the right kind of show for the right kind of moment.

And as you said, it was finding its footing. It got good press. It's the type of show that any service kind of wants to have. And this may sound cynical to say, but it's also a show that was extremely thoughtful about its on-screen representation and would only increase that, I would imagine, in future seasons. So it felt like a no-brainer for a second season.

Let me also say that any time a decision like this is made, there's always one thing that we don't know about and we can't know about and we're not going to spend time guessing whether it was, you know, there's salary dispute or this or that or scheduling or some issue, whatever. So we don't know any of that. Yeah, and I think that without any knowledge whatsoever, I would say that so much stuff has gotten suspended or held up scheduling-wise. And Zoe Kravitz is a very in-demand performer.

She's in the Batman. She's like, I would imagine that her dance card is pretty full and that maybe there was some issues around, if I'm just guessing, around just simply executing the next season of the show within. No, go ahead. What we're going to say. No, I think that's, I think that's a fair assumption to make, although I would also. also say that, you know, she was an EP of the show. Absolutely. I can attest to the fact, but the curse of the second floor at Hollywood Production Center lives on, I guess, for my show and her show. But she was at the writer's room a lot. And, you know, this is something that she wanted

to be working on and was committed to. And in the Hollywood Reporter piece, it definitely made it be like, Kravitz was informed of the cancellation along with the rest of the cast, like the crew. Like, it wasn't as if she was like, I can't do this. So we're going to have to either do it in 2023 or never. Right. What I would say is, again, without knowledge, of the actual granular details of the cancellation, this feels very COVID-y to me. And one of the reasons why that is, I mean, I'll go through it. The history of getting it to the screen is a little bit complicated,

but ultimately it is the model for what all shows that get to continue on are, which is it's owned by the service. It's all the same company. So it's ABC Signature Studios, which is obviously owned by Disney. It was originally developed for Disney Plus, not a fit. for that service, but then when the Disney takeover a Fox was complete, meaning they also took over Hulu,

that felt like a good place for them to be. So though it is complicated, it's not exactly like Hulu Studios for Hulu, it's all the same company and they could have worked it out. The thing that feels particularly pandemic related to me is twofold. One, it is not cheap to shoot on location in New York. This is not a cheap show,

despite the fact that there's kind of only one A-lister or whatever Zoe Kravitz is in it. So just putting in production in New York is a thing. Two, putting into production in New York now or next year with all the uncertainties and holding actor deals, extending them, I don't know what sets and things they have. Like, that is not an insignificant cost. Sure. Since the renewal would come, I mean, obviously they could fuel a writer's room and maybe

they even started one, but they could not control when they could go into production again. That's definitely just sort of a running bill that has to be paid attention to. And then, you know, Disney is the monolith of pop culture, but as we've talked about before in different contexts, they're cut. They're bleeding a little bit. Yeah, they just lost several billion dollars this quarter. Several billion dollars. And there is no sense. I mean, the Disney Plus subscriptions are doing great.

And the Mulan pivot makes a lot of sense. And, you know, they're being savvy about what they have to work with. But you have to remember that, like, a company like that is propped up by its just evergreen parks and cruises. Shouts to Tom Wamsgams. Like, that brings in money. And even if you could start production in New York, and some shows, you know, I believe the Gossip Girl reboot is like they have a date in mind. They think they're going to be able to start shooting in the fall and hopefully they're able to. So production might happen, but that other piece of

it does trickle down right into this decision making. So let me ask you a question. It just does. I show that I do believe has been renewed, which you and I also both enjoyed quite a bit and I actually got to get through most of the, you know, the first season. My wife finished it, but I like watched a lot of it and loved it. What I saw was the great. And that has been renewed for a second season. And I was wondering, I believe that is a copro with Paramount, right? I think. It's MRC, but I don't know if it's a copro. The distributor is Paramount Television Studios. MRC, yeah, MRC is the production company, along with a bunch of other places.

Yeah. Okay. But go on. So anyway, I believe it, you need, anyways, to take that over again, another show that did get renewed is the great, which I actually, we should get to, if we can, talk about the first season of that show again, because I know we talked about the first episode, but it is actually was quite good, I thought. It's well-named. Yes, and it is well-named. That is, I think, MRC, and then I think the distributor originally or one of the companies involved was Paramount. I was curious, basically, there's a long way of asking, in this day and age with streaming, is it easier to kind of continue on if you can offset the costs onto several different

companies. Like for Disney, are they saying we are responsible for the entire bill for high fidelity? And it is what it is. This is the return we're getting on it. And if it's not driving new subscriptions to Hulu, like, what is the thinking behind this? It's a great point. I mean, the only thing that I've come away with from my time in the minefield that is contemporary media company structuring architecture is that you would think that the two hands would be in, like, you would think that, what's the thing that like the one hand would scratch the same back, like you would think that there would be some more symmetry to how it operates. They would know what the, one hand would know what the other is doing. Yeah. Exactly. But increasingly,

that does not seem to be the case. I think, I'm not sure for whatever reason, whether it's purely creative or whether it's accounting or it's just trying to stoke seeds of competition. But it does seem increasingly that just because a company owns a streaming service and owns multiple studios, they are often empowered not to operate in what in not to collude basically sure yeah to operate like independent entities and to think like independent entities unless something larger step you know larger concern steps in and says no make this work right so i i don't really know i mean the specifics of each thing it just changes because also i i don't know what hulu the other things that we can't guess um or or or just you know sit around and spitball too much about is we're not entirely sure what

Hulu's development slate looks like. We don't know what they, what shows they intend to have on the air, what their budget is going to look like, considering what's been affected by what kind of production, and what value they see in paying for something like high fidelity, at this cost, as you said, at this cost, at this return rate, or something like the Great, which was Emmy nominated, you know, and, but comes from an outside studio. So each case is bizarrely different. The last thing I was going to say about it was this week we saw. the first trailer for Netflix's Ratchet, which is Ryan Murphy's

imagining of the early days of Nurse Ratchet from the one flew over the Cuckus desk. Finally, I have been wondering about this for 30 years. That's what they're counting on. And also it was just the first, like, images were released, and it was announced that it would be going to series, the League of Their Own series, starring Abby Jacobson,

and she's also one of the sort of minds behind the show. And Emmy Darcy Carton. That's right. And that would be going to Amazon. And both of those shows would say, you'd probably be like, oh, okay, I'll probably check that out. But also, I have a degree of cynicism about just the constant kind of like, are we sure there's any meat left on the bone and this perfect film that was made? Maybe we could go back. And I actually had that same reaction of high fidelity. You know, I mean, for as much as I like Zoe Kravitz, I was a little bit skeptical going in that they would be able to make.

this thing at all relevant in 2020 or 2019 or whatever. And the thing that sort of is equally disappointing for me about the high fidelity cancellation is they did it. They actually showed that there is a backdoor into making these kind of interesting adult dromedes and you can get in there in the Trojan horse of, it's IP, you guys all remember high fidelity? Well, what if we twisted it?

And I'm kind of, I'm a little bit surprised that that is, you guys got it all the way to screens and it was really well received if maybe not as well watched as you wanted it to be isn't that the whole point? I'll take it a step further. What's most disappointing about it is that then they didn't get to show

what they were going to do next. Because the first season is very much its own thing but it does follow the broad outline and contours of the Nick Hornby novel and the movie. And so the real test was going to be what they did next. And I think that for both for fans who were interested in seeing what would happen next, but also speaking as someone trying to make stuff in the same ecosystem, it's a bummer that they didn't get to prove that it could be done because, as I think I've been alluding to over the last few podcasts, like the feeling at the moment in Hollywood, and this is obviously some conservative thinking driven by the current circumstances.

But, I mean, if it was true before the pandemic, it's doubly true now that if it's not based. on something, it's not going forward. If you can't wave a book or a movie or anything just to show why you're doing it or to have some preexisting knowledge to stand out in this very crowded, well, at least it was crowded marketplace. It's not happening. And so high fidelity was, you know, in some ways a standard bearer for smart, creative, contemporary thinking about beloved properties. And so this, and for it to be cut down in the moment when it had almost free, it freed itself basically. Yeah.

From its circumstance and was going to show us something else. I think that's a bummer. Should we talk a little bit about destroy you before we get to our interview with Tim?

Yes. You know, this is the broken record part of the podcast where we just sit back and discuss our admiration, I think. What I'm so struck by

is how, even though I, from the beginning, I was hyped for the show. I mean, as much as one can be hyped for such a dark and at times demanding series. I have never,

I realized after watching this episode the degree to which even now I've continued to underestimate it. I can't think of an antecedent in recent TV times of a program that has continued to keep me guessing as to just what it is and what it's about this far into its run.

You know, the log line, such as there was one, before premiered was this is a show about sexual assault and trauma. It's about so much more than that. And it's about, I mean, it's, it, the degree to which it is just feels like incepted from our current moment and just the way people have to live and exist in the world is really striking. And I, I guess I'm just sort of hung up on the fact that I can't believe that

Michaela Cole, who is so, um, inspired and exacting and precise in the ways that she's depicted Arabella's assault, trauma, experience, attempts at recovery, friendships, that she also has the ammunition to go with the internet and to continually, week after week, avoid false, though reassuring binaries that this person is bad, so I'm going to seek this relief and it's good, to actually be able to hold so many ideas in her head at the same. time and thus in the show's orbit at the same time so that you can say, you know, predatory behavior is horrific and prevalent and, and also say that the cheap high of the internet and of acclamation culture and doxing and everything is in its own way quite toxic. And I just was,

I was floored by it. Like the show didn't need to do that to have my admiration, but it really just kicked it up another level in terms of how she's able to turn her microscope on every aspect of society. So the two things that I love watching most right now, probably, well, actually, would actually put it to the three. But the two things I'm really enjoying watching most right now are I made a story of you and Yellowstone. Amazing. You know, Yellowstone, I've noticed that every episode where I am in the show, it's like, shot like a movie, features really good performances.

The writing is, it is what it is if you like Taylor Sheridan. It is certainly that, and I happen to like Taylor Sheridan. So every week or every episode, you kind of go into this. And the sheer breadth and scale of the show feels new and almost,

almost like, unprecedented in some ways in terms of the way it shoots the West. But every week or every episode, there are beats. And you can feel those beats forming in previous scenes. You're like,

I know it's going to happen. These guys are going to have a confrontation. There are some surprises, but for the most part, it is a family in crisis, and it does that old TV thing, which just keeps throwing things of people, all episode long.

And you wind up being kind of like, that was very satisfying and not too surprising. The other show that I love the most is, I might assure you, and it's almost because I almost feel nervous before I start an episode because I don't have that sense of weird comfort of like I know exactly what's going to happen.

And I don't necessarily even mean narrative, was. I just don't even know what show I'm about to watch. This was basically fantastical. I mean, I didn't notice this the first time around. Our buddy Diane pointed this out to me in a message. Did you notice the apparition hanging over her bed early in the episode? Yes. And that winds up being the woman younger version of herself. I mean, the interpretation that I think I had was that that was her when she had had her abortion. But I'm not, I'm not sure if that's accurate or if that's actually more like, that's just a different, you know, version of her. I mean, did you have a, read on what that was?

No, I mean, I think it's whatever read I have is extremely clumsy and basic. And it's not too different from what her... It's the monster under her bed, right? Says to her. Yeah, it's that she has tried to address her trauma, but

she is what she's really doing is running. She's still running. I mean, she quite literally ran to Italy, but just because she's pointing a camera at herself and talking and getting, you know, hearts, she isn't doing the thing that is most difficult for anyone to do with when it comes to whether it's dealing with trauma or dealing with your past or your history or your own brokenness or whatever, which is you can't

fix it and you can't run from it. You got to sit it with it. You have to look at it. And in that case, I guess it was looking at her, you know, which is pretty terrifying and horrific. The line that I couldn't get out of my head from the episode was when she gets that like your stressed cat scan result and then immediately starts vlogging about it or live streaming or whatever you want to call it. And it's very uncomfortable and it's very awkward. And then she says, okay, I'm sorry, back in the room. Back in the room. Back in the room. Like I am now in reality. So really she wasn't there, you know, and. But I just love the fact that this episode becomes more and more hallucinatory as it goes on.

I mean, it has that apparition in the beginning, but it goes from the pretty standard, like this is a scene between three people at the NHS, and as they change into their costumes

and go to the painting class, and then that kind of just, you know, spins out from there. It becomes this almost, it does kind of look like, almost like something out of Neil Gaiman or something. You know what I mean?

Like the way that the character... With the costumes. Yeah, yeah. But also what this episode did was make me reconsider the title of the show. I mean, we haven't ever really discussed it, but I think the assumption is that, you know, this is that the idea of destroying someone that could only be the language of the attacker,

the assailant, the rapist or whatever, right, that made an event that could destroy a woman's life. But that moment when she's just completely high, basically, on the power she has through her phone, all of a sudden I thought about how every week the title of the show appears and then the words you are deleted, so just as I may destroy. And you realize that she could destroy someone. And it's value neutral in that moment, I guess. But she has that power in her pocket at any moment, just as many of us do, I guess, at any moment in our life, whether it's through physical choices that we make or through digital online ones. So it's very heady. and there's so much going on.

And, you know, but this episode was just so wonderfully grounded again by the performances. And, you know, the moment with Kwame at the end when he's trying to be respectful, but he's so hurt and broken and everyone's so hurt and broken. And it's just like at what point can we any of us. But he's also like, I'm going to take off and go hook up with somebody, you know. Yeah. And at what point can we just sit and start over and stop being about the past of the future and what's the hope for us?

I don't know. It's just about all of it. And it's a deep psychological dive every week, but it's rewarding. Yeah, absolutely. Well, let's end it there. We'll get into our interview with Tim Simons. Yes, God, Yes, is available on demand. Obviously, you know him from all these great shows that he's been on, including Briar Patch. We'll be back on Monday, like I said, first episode of Summer of Dove, but we'll be talking about a bunch of different stuff on Monday, I'm sure. Greenwald, always good to see you. I love talking about different stuff with you. But now I just am going to think about you with your 10 jars of cheese bread. And I, frankly, it's a haunting, haunting image.

Let's talk to Tim instead. Later. Andy and I are so happy to welcome back one of our favorite guests. It's Tim Simons. You know Tim, obviously from Veep. You know him from looking for Alaska. And now you can see him. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

Episode 9 of Briar Patch. That's right. Well, I didn't want to give away any spoilers. You know what I mean? People might still be digging in the crates. Okay. You can also see him in Byer Patch. And you could see him in a new film that just came out on demand, as all movies are these days, called Yes, God, Yes, which I thought was completely delightful. I texted Tim. I was like, man, that movie, my wife and I really enjoyed that when we watched that the other night.

I know Andy's checked it out. Tim, welcome back to the show, man. Thanks. I'm so happy to be here. It's just, it's always a pleasure to see you guys. Tim, I was curious about, you know, why you chose to do this film because you're part in it just to give people a little bit of a background. it's about the kind of, I guess, fair to say, sexual awakening of a Catholic high school girl in the early 2000s, that she's sort of finding her way in the world at this pretty conservative school and also simultaneously exploring her life online, like as like online sort of culture starts to explode at the beginning of the century. And I was curious how you kind of got involved with the project and what made you want to take the role of Father Murphy? I got involved because, I mean, like, when it comes to things like,

I'm sort of in a very, this will be like a very direct answer to that question. And that like, I think as an actor, as a person that I am, I am somewhere in between a person who has to audition for things and a person who gets offered things. And so I was like, so this one came in and it was just like, hey, do you want to do this? Which sort of immediately makes it more serious. If somebody is like, hey, this is yours if you would like to do it. So it's like that and blade, they offer you sight unseen. Yeah. sight unseen.

And by the way, people who don't realize that was a dig because Tim had to audition to get on this podcast. It was a limited chemistry test callback, but he still had to do it. Victory still tastes as sweet. So it makes it, I don't know, maybe it makes it a little more serious or it's just like you look at it a little bit closer or you know at least that you're going to be able to have conversations with people that are making it because you're not kind of trying to convince it. you're actually trying to see if you see eye to eye on stuff. But I think what I loved so much about it was that, well, number one, Karen Main was one of the co-writers of Obvious Child, which was, whatever your obvious child came out,

and I can't remember anything anymore. So I don't remember when that was. But that year, I remember that, like, at the end of the year, I made a top 10 list of movies, and it was just Obvious Child and Under the Skin, alternating sort of like 1A and 1B and then 2A and 2B all the way to 10. That was my top 10 list. I just loved obvious child.

I thought it was amazing. So clearly it was somebody who was a good writer, had a great sense of humor, and had a dark sense of humor. And there was something that I responded to about just the sort of like underlying sort of creepy weirdness of that whole world. I had never seen that world in a movie before dealt with like that. And I think that was the first thing that I responded to is just how fucking weird that church camp was. Yeah. And then I ended up, I ended up, you know, FaceTiming with Karen. And we got along and it was a brand new world for me. I didn't grow up religious. So I kept having to be like, oh, you actually did this. Like this is an actual thing. That happened so often. And even when it would come to like, you know, the basics of Catholicism and Christianity, it would sort of come up. Or I'd be like, oh, okay.

really, people believe that? And she's like, yes. Yeah. But that's how it started. There's an uncanny element to a lot of the movie. So we're watching it last night and we get to the point and I don't think this is a major spoiler, but at this religious retreat from an already religious

high school, the young people link arms and sway while Boombox plays in your eyes like Peter Gabriel and your character father Murphy has placed a chillingly, a lifelike pencil sketch of Jesus Christ and said, these are the eyes that you are in and they sway and they sway. And my wife's

like, well, they didn't do that. Like, that can't be real. And I think that you kind of can't make that stuff up. Because as you said, the writer and director of the film lived this experience. So it's not like she was mocking something. She was just reporting. No, I think that actually happened. I want you to pretend that the eyes in the song are Jesus's eyes. That actually happened to her. I think the feelings checklist happened to her, the microwave oven versus conventional oven speech. That was her sexual education. Quick follow up, how does a convection oven fit into all of this? Because, you know, gender is a spectrum as is kitchen technology.

So, sorry, I did not mean to interrupt. No, I mean, I think, like, no, that actually happened. And I remember in the script, it was like, it was they, and maybe this was just like a lasting memory. that she had. It was written. Like, these, these eyes need to be huge and bulbous and wet and sort of welcoming. Like, it was so specific just in the description of what those eyes should look like. But no, all of those things happened to her. And the other producers, Katie Cordial and Colleen Hammond, they had also gone to this church camp.

So I was sort of surrounded by people who had had this experience. But no, that, it is funny, that thing, that thing, like they strip everything away from you, and then they replace it with Jesus. Yeah. And that, and they are like, here is the answer. It's Jesus. They take everything away and they say, you are unmoored and now here's Jesus. And it's very, very weird.

So your, you're like high school experience was just basic public school? Like, what was, like, your high school experience? My high school experience, this came up in a, like in a Q&A the other day. I went to public school in Maine, but it was a hippie public high school that was founded in the 70s that was really progressive and I believe still is. Like it was sort of founded on progressive ideals. And so my high school experience was one where there was this thing that we had called Teen Issues Week. And, I mean, like, it sounds, I mean, it sounds so dumb, but I really do. I'm glad it happened.

We had people coming in when we were as young as, like, the seventh grade to talk to us about, like, actual recovered heroin addicts, came into the school to talk to us about heroin. We had, like, panels of... Like, like, pros and cons or all-cons. Frozen cons, like, straight up. And they have, like, the straight dope about dope. Great. So we also had like panels with, uh, with gay and transgender kids in other high schools in Maine trying to, like, uh, we had panels.

I mean, like, this is hard to find in Maine because it's a very white state, but like panels about racial politics. And our sex education was very frank. Even like, I remember in like the sixth grade, it was not graphic. But it was like the, it was the straight dope about what this is. And even as like a fifth grader, I was like, I don't really want to know about. but they were like, we're telling you. So, no, mine couldn't have been any different from that.

Sure. Yeah. I want to talk specifically about the production of this movie. I remember I talked to you. I think you had just come back from shooting it. And I think so people get a sense of things, people who maybe don't pay as close attention to production and actually how it works might think movies, oh, how extravagant you get to spend all this time on one story versus

TV where it's like slap dash, slap dash. And I'm bringing this up, not just because I want to remind people how brilliant you were in the TV show that I made and that you worked on so wonderfully. But for the episode that you were in, we had eight days to make an episode and we felt rushed and slammed and it was challenging. And you did all of your scenes in a single day that we flew there for. What I read was that, yes, God, yes, you had 16 production days to make this movie, something like that. That sounds about right. I mean, that's crazy. That's a whole character arc and the whole film with multiple locations you had to do in almost no time at all.

Yeah, and I will say, like, I give so much credit. Like, this was the first movie that Karen Main has directed, and not only did she do a somewhat impossible thing of shooting on a really tight schedule and keeping it on schedule, but she had a really narrow tone to hit, and I feel like she hit it dead on. But no, we were in Morrow, Georgia, which I think it was about a half an hour south of Atlanta,

and we did most, of the shooting on a, it was like a church retreat center. And so most every day we spent there. But it was, I think we ended up spending about three and a half weeks, three and a half weeks there. And 16 production days sounds about right. Maybe a couple, maybe they had to add a couple at the end to get a couple more scenes in there. But that's about right. I wanted to ask you about the commonalities, I guess, in terms of the live production experience, but also in terms of the type of role you had between this and another performance that Chris and I both really loved a lot, which was in looking for Alaska, where you also went to the South to play a role in something in which you were a stern

authority figure surrounded by Randy Young People, which is a lane, which is a lane none of us predicted for you, but we're thrilled about. Dude, I have no idea how it happened either. But in both cases, obviously very different stories, very different arcs, very different characters. But I would imagine there were some commonalities in being the older person and being the veteran almost in a cast of younger people. Yes.

You know what it's funny? In both of those experiences, and I don't know, I think I sold them short going into yes, God, yes, the other kids that were going to be in a movie. And I'm just glad I had that experience because I never sold the kid short going into looking for Alaska because when I showed up, I was like, oh, my God, like, I don't know what am I going to talk to these kids about? Like, they live in a completely different world than me. We're not going to find any, we're not going to find any common ground.

Like, you know, I don't, you know what I mean? Like, they're going to be like, what do you do? I'm like, I don't know, man, like most, I got to get up at like six in the morning because I have kids and everything's awful all the time. And they're going to be like, what do you do? I sleep until 10 and then I like, and then I get paid to go to a party. I don't know what I mean? So like, but what, but what ended up happening once?

And I've been very lucky when I say this, because I'm sure this has not been everybody's experience. Everybody there was so fully on board. And everybody there was so fully committed to, like, just making it good that we kind of found common ground in there. And I do think that one thing I'm good at is acting a lot younger than I really am. And I think what that's called is immaturity. But so I think what we ended up, what we've, like,

I guess I just treated them as adults, and which they are as adults and professionals and everybody came at it through a lens of respect and then all of a sudden it was a great set and a wonderful set. There were definitely times and I guess just to finish that thought

that like because of that experience when I went into looking for Alaska I was like, oh, it's just going to be a thing. Like I'm going to be a little bit older eventually we'll talk and then we'll all find common ground and it will be like that age difference isn't there. It's only a difference if you make it one or whatever. But there was definitely one.

time, I feel like the only, I didn't impart any knowledge on them outside of the fact that it was Kara-Kara-Orange season. It was citrus season. And they noticed that I was always like rubbing the orange on a table top. And they were like, what are you doing? And I was like, oh, well, that helps you separate the peel from the pit of the orange. That's the only thing. Wow. So you were actually 111 years old when you were talking about it. You're like, I seem young. I'm pretty, pretty, I keep it pretty chill. Hey, hey, fellow, do you like Piff? I don't.

This is how you get rid of it. Just rub it on the table. Wow. What's going on with you, pal? Is this a TikTok? Am I doing it right? Am I doing it right? Me and my friends just like to have a couple of sips of ether in the later afternoon.

But only one of these fruits because the old insides can't handle it. I limit myself to one juicy tree today. I recommend your kids do the same. Coffee or an orange, but that's a lot of citric acid in the morning. When you're coming down from horse tranks, you know what I like to do is have a Kara-Kare-A-Range because the vitamin C. This is why, this is honestly why I'm like, why aren't you more successful? I'm honestly like, that's what it comes down to?

Because I think, like, oh, what if I just brought up Kara-Kara-Oran-O-Range season? What if, like, that was the only thing that mattered? I got to tell you guys, one thing that was really wonderful about this is that one of the other producers very into Caracara oranges. And the movie came out in Sunday at South by during Caracara Orange season. And I just, the other day,

I went to my wife, Annie, and I was like, Annie, this was the weirdest Kara Kara Orange season you've ever had. And she was like, you have to fucking stop with this. The other, the other, there's a whole lot there also. I just wish I did cocaine.

I wish I did cocaine. Yeah, because instead you sound like the most boring Steinbeck character. I fucking hate it, guys. You guys are, you're approaching this the wrong way. Because as you were talking, here's what I was imagining. I was imagining some 50 years in the future, God knows we're not here, but 50 years into the future, unless we keep eating those oranges, which are crucial for long life and bodily health. 50 years in the future, the sort of Academy of Film Arts and Science has their career retrospective on multiple Oscar Award winner, Natalia Dyer.

and they were like, how did you have this long and beautiful career? And she's like, you know, you may not believe this, but it goes back to some advice that was given to me by an old day player, Tim Simons, eat an orange every day and love what you do. And you know what I mean? Like that, you may not win the awards, she will win, but you will be an amusing footnote in the backstory. See, I didn't think you were going that way with it.

I thought it was going to be more like Golden Globes, 35 years into the future. And you know how you can kind of buy your way into those award shows some point? I thought maybe... Tim and I don't know. Maybe Tim would get like a lifetime achievement award, but underneath it would be brought to you by the Tropicana Corporation. Tropicana never from concentrate.

Tim Simons has been a steadfast spokesperson for the greater citrus industry. All I'm doing is giving them free advertising. This is one thing. This is one thing that I think I did teach those guys is that when we were, like, there was this story, oh, you might enjoy this.

I knew this guy in Chicago that everybody called BMX Joe. And so BMX Joe was really connected to Lawrence, Kansas music scene in the early to mid-2000s, the New Amsterdam's, the Get Up Kids. Reggie and the Full Effect, that whole thing. I met him in Chicago. I can't remember how. I think I was working street team for the Get Up Kids. I'm dating myself.

serious? All over. Yes, I was working street team for the Getup Kids. I am dating my... You're on the right podcast, Tim.

Okay. You are on the right podcast. The Get Up Kids, didn't they stay with you in Boston once, Chris? Yeah, I think they stayed at like my, the house that I moved into, but I definitely went to my fair share

of Gett up Kids shows. Oh my God. They're so, they're so amazing. I still every once in a while, I throw on four minute mile. Hell yeah, man. Coming clean?

You got it. Mass Pike? You know what I like to do? guys? If I get 10 minutes to myself on a Saturday, I like to peel myself a juicy orange and throw on a Get Up Kids song and just like really get high on life. Am I 43? I don't know. You tell me, man. You tell me. Age is just a number. You tell me. I'm just a gentleman enjoying a Halo Mandarin listening to the Woodson EP. So I was working street team for the Get Up Kids. I meet BMX Joe backstage because I got to go backstage to the show that I was working

Street Team for and meet them. And I think they were like, why did you do this? You're an adult man. Like, why are you doing this? And so then, oh, so where was this going? I don't know, man. BMX Joe. Golden Globes.

You were sponsored by citrus. You don't do cocaine. Oh, God. It's going to come back to me. Did you like turn the kids that you were working with? on to the get-up kids? Did you, do BMX Joe? Did BMX have anything to do with BMX? Or is that just a cool nickname? No, he actually did ride BMX and he had a BMX tattoo. He had like a bunch of tattoos of BMX bikes.

Oh, God. Kaya, how did we get in? How did we get into this? What were we talking about? Kyya is riveted. Oh, God. Kaya's ours. She's taking notes. This is a paycheck job for Kaya. We're lucky she hits record. We did an hour and a half on X-Men comics yesterday, Tim. This is jumped all the sharks. Okay, I'm getting there. So the last thing Chris said was that he thought you were sponsored by the citrus lobby.

Yes. And then you were like, you'll like this story. I was living in Chicago. We don't know who you were talking to. And you said, you'll like this story. Working Street Team for the guests. All these other stories, we weren't going to like. Thank you for that.

But here's some bullshit I've been talking about. Can I just ask you while you're thinking of it because maybe this will jog it is, how did you find yourself working street team for the get-up kids? Yeah, what decisions had you made? I think I was broke. There's a lot of money in that. A lot of money in the street team work. In the street team.

But I was, I didn't, I had just from Chicago. I didn't have any money. I was working a temp job. And I saw that they were going to be playing a show at the House of Blues in Chicago. I was like, why don't have money for those tickets? So I think this was like, you know, around the beginnings of when you could just email somebody. And I think I just emailed their person. And they were like, do you want to be on the street team and you can just like get tickets and just all you have to do is like go to the fireside bowl and hand out flyers?

Yeah. At the, oh my God, I'm like guys, COVID quarantine ruined my memory. But I, so I, there was a show of a band, which the name of which you would also remember. I handed out flyers at that thing and then had to take pictures on one of those. Yeah. To prove you did your work. Yeah. I had to prove that I did the work and that I was there.

My buddy Jay back in Boston, we used to walk around boss. I don't even know why I did it because I wasn't part of the street team, but Jay did street team work. And he would like put up a sticker on a light post, take a picture of it and just be like, Got it. You know what I mean? And I would just be like, how effective is this? Honestly, I remember at the time, like, the get-up kids were pretty big. I remember all the people that I was handing them to, they were like, you know this band's famous, right? I was like, I know, man, but I need to get these tickets. Anyway, so I was hanging out with BMX Joe. Yeah, it's a wonder you didn't connect with these young actors more, by the way. I am just...

Did you ever play them any get-up kids? You're like, you know, most people think the vagrant years were awash, but I got to say, guilt show stands up. Natalia? Come here. I think that I was going to relate something that I, oh, this is what it was. Okay. We got there.

We got there. Tim, we're out of time. Thanks anyway, though. Thank you for joining us Tims. Thanks for the watch pod for having me. Thank you to the ringer. So he knew the dashboard confessional guy. This is why you'll like this.

He was friends with that guy. went on tour with him. And he did this thing. He would tell these stories about he was like, I always like gig wrecking his shows. And that was the term that he used was gig wrecking. And so he was like one time he was like at the end of like one of his like big songs. Yeah.

So quiet, another wasted night. Again, I go and noticed. Again, I go and noticed. Yeah. Yeah. And he gets toward the end and Joe backstage, BMX Joe picks up a guitar, puts it over his shoulder. This is the story he tells me.

and he goes out on stage strumming it, pretending he doesn't know how to play the guitar. And everybody in the crowd goes fucking nuts because they think somebody's coming out to join the dashboard confession. And the dude just gets over and pushes him off stage. But he had this long running thing with this guy of trying to gig wreck his shows.

And so what I think I taught them to do is I've always hung on to that phrase, gig wrecking. I taught them to gig. wreck PR for the movie at South by. Everybody like, you're just sort of like going from like place to place. And like if they asked questions about the movie,

I don't want to, I think what I taught them by example was you treat the movie with seriousness. You answer the questions about the movie seriously. And then everything else is fair game. So while you're there going from these like sponsored lounge to sponsored lounge to sponsored lounge to pitch, to pitch your movie at South by,

I would thank the wrong sponsors of the lounge on purpose. Or just bring it up, like, I've just been having the greatest experience here. You know, I've just been eating all these subway sandwiches, and I'm just so thankful to be in the subway sandwich lounge or whatever, like just kind of constantly trying to throw these things in there. And then also, whenever we were talking, we actually went on like a, I don't know why I was invited. We talked to like young hollywood.com.

Yeah. And all I did was talk about in-season fruits. But and then in the ones and then in the interviews, I was basically like, if it's young Hollywood, I'm going to talk about in-season fruits. But if it's the Hollywood reporter, I'm going to talk about the young people shit. I like refused to talk about the thing that the outlet would be interested in.

What's amazing is that you are bringing the punk ethos of Lawrence, Kansas, a town none of us ever lived in, to Hollywood. And I think that that is a way for young people to succeed in our increasingly branded present and future. I just think the advice you're giving them to stick it to the man. Yes. I get it, though, because it seems like a lot of those junkets now, like half of them are normal, like, you know, what did you guys, how was it making this movie and how did you, you know, what did you think when you first wrote the script? And then there's always like a bit where they're like, well, Tim,

Talia, thanks so much. So we were hoping you play a game. The game's called Stick Your Hand and a Bag of Snakes. And it's just like next year. Oh, no, this was the best lesson that I learned when I was doing that in Toronto, where we did this. We were being, Rosari and I were being ferried from room to room. And we were being asked questions that I was grateful for all the opportunities.

And we're sitting on this couch. And as we're sitting there, I'm like, this looks weird. Like, this is a very strange set and looks kind of familiar. And I was little days I hadn't had time to turn around. And as we're ending, I sort of turn around. And I say, does that, that's a sense. perk. And then the interviewer was like, Rosario, now that we're done, like, would you mind

take a couple words about why the show Friends was so iconic and so important to you? And she just smiled, the same smile she'd been smiling for the eight minutes of our interview and said, no, it got up. And I was like, you're my hero. Because I was literally about to be like, you know, I think when Gunter was slinging lattes back there, he would have wanted to watch a procedural

on basic cable. And I'll do whatever, but like... No, I think getting to that point where like because at some point like I do think it's important to take it seriously I think that's the thing like I want to do all like all of this I do consider as a part of my job like I want I want yes God yes to be successful I think that movie turned out right I think it's great I think this podcast is gonna push it over the edge man it really is all this matters he he's no Tim hey did you hear that Tim Symes interview he talked about fucking the get up kids and in season fruit and it really made me want to watch that movie after this podcast is over we We'll be sending you a PDF to print out, and if you could stand in front of Largo for a couple hours, just asking people to listen to this podcast, I think it would really move the needle on your movie.

And they're all going to be like, everybody knows what the watch is. Why are you handing a flyer? Those guys peaked in 2016. I haven't listened to Thrones went off the air. So like they, I do so like I think that this movie is great. And like I watched it with Annie for the first time when it came out.

I think I probably, if it had, been for COVID in the quarantine, the whole thing, I probably would have been a little less vocal about my lack of understanding of what a virtual cinema was. I had no idea what that meant, but I watched it in a virtual cinema that first weekend.

And one thing that's a real bummer is that I think it was very important to Karen and Colleen and Katie and everybody, like on the producer side that a theatrical run was a part of the release and they, like, held fast to that. And they had an actual theatrical run for this movie set up.

and that got completely boned, which is a bummer. But anyway, I watched it with Annie, and this isn't going to give away anything to, this isn't spoilery, but there's a moment where Natalia Dyer's character envisions herself running her fingers through a young man's arm hair.

Yes. And I've seen this movie. I was there when we shot it, and I still howled with laughter. It's not like a bombat, movie. It's not gigantic. And I'm not even going to say that it's quiet. It's not a quiet movie either. It just doesn't feel like other stuff that's out there right now. And I want it to do well. So this is all to say that I don't think it's good to like wreck interviews so much that you don't get

the word about of something you're proud of out there. But at the same time, I also don't need to be like pimped in the sponsored content at the same time. You know what I mean? Like that's like the punk rock Lawrence, Kansas, and me being like, you know what? No free fucking ads. I got to say, I am thrilled that you and Annie watched the film and you both enjoyed and laughed. I did think you were setting us up for a mega callback of you howling with laughter at your performance in the movie and her turning to you and saying the same thing she said about the oranges, which is you've got to stop fucking doing this.

You've got to stop fucking doing this. Like, look, nobody thinks I'm less, is less impressed with my fucking comedic stylings than Annie. Can we ask you, and not to turn this into a mega bummer, but this is a conversation that we had, and I just think people might be interested in the perspective of it. Like, the world is a disaster, and we all agree on that. Could you just give our listeners a little insight into the travails of a working actor at this time, which is not to say you are not an essential worker, you know, all the caveats apply, but we have talked a little bit about just like the way everything, especially in this country, is affecting productions and people's livelihoods. But I think, you know,

just so people understand what it means to be like, the thing that you love to do and the thing that you have a career doing, can't do it, can't do it for a while. Or if you choose to do it, there are going to be a lot of tradeoffs. Yes. I mean,

yeah, again, making sure that like all those caveats are said, like, like, I think, oh, it just got a,

I think it just came out in the trades the other day. But again, like, you know, I'm not posting anything really on social media in any way. Like, I probably would have like, I don't know,

I'm in the new home alone movie. That's what I'm trying to say. I'm like, that's what I was doing. Yeah, like, not on the deadline or whatever. And like a week later, somebody was like, hey, I saw you're on the home alone movie. I was like, right, that was in a world that existed before this. That was before I was a homeschool teacher.

But like, so that's something that I mean, like at some point, that's probably going to start filming again. And when that happens, you know, like one of the great things about this job is that I'm able to sort of balance home and work life. And it can get a little bit crazy sometimes. Like, you know, in the case of going to Georgia to shoot this, I had to leave my house for a month.

We had just moved. The family had just moved. And I basically waved goodbye. I, like, delayed my arrival in Georgia by a day so that I could help move boxes. And then I waved goodbye to my family to be like, have fun unpacking those boxes. They were like, hazza, daddy.

Haza! And so I had to, like, leave town for a month. But a lot of times, this is just, like, one thing that's coming up now is that like a lot of times like if I have four or five days off and I'm out of town, I'll find a cheap flight and I'll come home and I'll be very tired, but at least I'll be around. And unless the United States gets a lot better in the next couple weeks, I can't imagine there's going to be a lot of production. And so what that means is that if I end up working,

it'll probably be really far away. And then you have to, like if I go back into Canada, probably going to have to sit in a hotel, like literally not leave a hotel room for two weeks. There's that. So that means before I even set foot on set, I will have been away from the family for two weeks. So there's that. And then you start shooting. And then instead of like, oh, well, here I am. I have a family, but I'm away from them and how you know, but I'm in a new city.

I haven't spent a lot of time in Montreal. So I'll go and find a good indie. Or some bands to street team for it. Yeah, just like, you know, some like up-and-coming French. Arts and Crafts Records still putting out stuff? Let's go find out. Let's go find out. So like, you know, you go to a restaurant.

You'll find an indie movie theater. If you're me, you find a local golf course. Yeah. Enjoy yourself. Yeah. Hell yeah. Another thing that separated me from the cast of Yes, God, yes. It was a healthy interest in the game of the lynx game.

So two weeks, you know. hotel before you can set foot, actually doing the job that you like, and then doing the job you like is going to be, is going to look completely different. And there's going to be the underlying thing of like, oh, God, I'm around a lot of people. And that's the best case scenario.

The best case scenario is you spend a lot of time away from your family, and it's also a little bit scary. So other, like, working actor stuff is like, I don't know, man. Like, I think we talked about this, like, I'm not going to say it's trivial because I enjoy doing it. I do think that there's artistry to this. So I don't want to say that it's trivial. It's definitely trivial when you put it up next to living or dying and pandemics and all that kind of stuff.

But I am looking forward to getting back to it. And when I, like, we talked about this. When I was working with you, like I felt like there was this thing of like, oh, like I've really had like a run of jobs that I felt very connected to that were very different from deep. had a, that were a very different skill set. I was really looking forward to that momentum continuing. And now it just kind of, it's like, I'll get self-tape audition things. And I'll look at the, you know, they'll be like, what are you talking about?

Yeah. Like, what do you mean? What do you mean you want me to say? And all they're going to see is some guy in the guest room terrified, like, terrified of not getting this job, but also terrified of getting it. and also just terrified of the fact that everybody is dying. And he's got a ton of oranges behind him. Oh, man, why does he honestly?

That seems wise now. I will eat two bags of halos in three days. Listen, Tim, I got to say this. Like, you are selling yourself short because I think I told the story without you here, but I just want to remind our listeners that when you came to you set and you were brilliant, and then we had an extra morning or something where we had to record some audio, stuff. And I was coaching some ideas and you were doing even better than I ever would have hoped. Then we finished recording and you were done. You were wrapped. And there was a young woman, a PA who was

assigned to you and your care. And she was like, we're all done. Great. She was like, Mr. Simon, did you like to go back to the hotel now? And you pulled me aside. And you said, she has to take me anywhere I say, right? And I said, yeah, I think so. And you said, great. And you turned to her and you said, one ticket to the casino, please. It was 1.16 p.m. on an Albuquerque Thursday, and your boy, young, young tangerine over here, went straight to the craps table. And I respected the hell out of that. And man, it was like, here's the thing. I think a long time ago, I would have been like, you know what, I'm going to get a ride back to the hotel and I'll Uber to the casino and I'll Uber

back. No, no, no. But I have not gone over the defense. I did not make her wait to give me a ride home from the casino. That's not her job. That would have been falling off. Yeah. But if you had walked out with a shiny chip and like put it in her pocket and be like, that's for you, sweetheart. That's for you, sweetie. Thank you. Uh, no, I went, I did get a ride to the Sandia can see, casino. How'd you do? Straight from. Oh, I was up for so long. Yeah, we always are. I was up for so long. But part of it was, I actually, that got up so quick. I had been there like 10 minutes.

I don't even think she was probably not even back to the main road. And I was up. And I was like, well, I can't just leave now. Like I just haven't spent enough time. Classic gambling psychology. Yeah. So did that answer your question, any, about the working actor thing? Yeah.

Was that a good answer for it? Yeah. I just think that, I think that, you know, Chris and I are obviously interested in this. And I do think that people who listen to this podcast and, like, the Up Kids and X-Men Comics. So it's a very specific group of us. But I think that people are interested in the whole 360-degree picture of the industry. And so while people are aware that, their favorite show might not be coming back for season three for a while, every decision is fraught now in a different way. And it affects everyone. And even people like ourselves

who are in fortunate circumstances, relatively speaking, still have some tough things, tough choices ahead. Yes. And like there are there are nice things about this in that like like years ago like when I first got cast on VEP it was I've I've I have written in my history but I was now I had never pursued screenwriting or television writing in any way. But when I got cast on the show because I always had to work a full time job and then also try to be an actor. And so then once I was I was and you can put air quotes around this if you'd like. But once I wasn't a full time actor, once I was an actor, I was like oh well shit now I don't have to work another 60. hour, a week job and be an actor. And that's when I started writing. And I'm glad I did, or started writing with the eye toward developing stuff, selling stuff, whatever it may be, or creating work for yourself or whatever. And I'm glad I did because during this, that has already been established. And so I was able to write things. But, you know, it's a weird thing, man. Part of being an actor is appearing on camera. Part of being an actor is like actually being seen.

And I have had no, starting to come out of it a little bit. Like we all been doing this long enough that we've found little glimmers of sunlight in it. But like in that first two months, I didn't want to, I didn't want to self-record an audition. I didn't want anybody to see me.

Like think about the shells of ourselves that we were at that time. Like the amount of anxiety, the amount of just hellishness and new schedules and school, at least for us, like you're homeschooling and all that. Like, I didn't want anybody see me.

And when you write, like, when you turn something, but I was able to write, because nobody sees you write, they just see what you wrote. Right. So that was sort of, that was nice. If there were audition tapes for writing, like, show me what you look like while you write. Like, oh my God.

Could you imagine? I mean, the snacking alone. It's just obscene. Did I tell you that there was one time last year, like last fall, where I sat down to write in this room and I had an actual blackout and 15 seconds later I was in the kitchen

with eating a snack and I don't remember how I got there but my body so fully rejected the idea of writing that it went to like a fugue state. Yeah. No, it's fight or flight. It's like you can't sit here and look at this blank page anymore.

You need to eat a pickle right from the jar or whatever. and a spoonful of peanut butter. You are seven years old again, and you need your snack. Tim, we don't want to take up any more of your time, man. But thank you so much for joining us today. I like it when you guys take up my time. We love talking to you. Please, yeah, if you stuck around this long

and you have managed to wade through the fog and the mud and the muck and the mire of my citrus and seasonal fruits and mid-2000 Lawrence, Kansas, emo. Yes, God, yes, is a really good movie. And yes, I say that as a person that's a part of it. But I think the performances in it by the rest of this cast and the direction of it by Karen Main is amazing. And I think it's quiet, but it's fantastic.

And I think you'll enjoy it. It's a really clutch, like, what should we watch tonight movie? You know, like, being home and it's like, it's just like a really, really, it's hard not to enjoy it. And it's available. I mean, that's also such a nice thing. Like, I know that theatrical releases are very important and mean a lot to people, but like, guys, if you're listening, you can watch this movie right now. You could literally just go do this right now.

Yeah. Take that, Chris. Pop your own corn. Peel your own orange. Watch this movie. And it's like, it seems like, don't let it feel like homework. It's not homework. It's just a really enjoyable movie that's got a lot of really funny shit in it.

And like, yes, we talk about like women's sexuality and the, and the truth. church and all of that. But it's not homework. It's just good. It's just funny. Tim, thank you so much, man. It's just some kids tossing salads in the deep south. It's great. I don't even know what dressing someone's salad is. We did, I think, have to hide some of the things from the people that own that retreat. Oh, really? You had to, like, kind of feel like, yeah, it's totally on the, like, a PG movie.

Yeah? I feel like we kind of had to, like, you know, I think they leaned really hard on the, you know, we went to this camp growing up, but didn't elaborate on their current feeling. that sort of thing. Tim, thanks a much, man. It was great to see you. It's great to see you guys.