The Watch - Inside the Succession Problems at Disney, Plus Strike Updates and ‘Reservation Dogs’

Episode Date: September 7, 2023

Chris and Andy talk about strike negotiations currently being at a standstill and how that could begin to affect next year’s summer movies (1:00). Then they talk about an article from CNBC that provides new details on the power struggle between Bob Chapek and Bob Iger at Disney (17:19), before discussing the latest episode of ‘Reservation Dogs’ and how this final season feels more like an epilogue to the show (45:20). Read the CNBC article here. Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Now. Hello, and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I'm an editor at The Wrigger.com. Joining me in the studio, walking the picket lines, and going up to his fellow strikers saying, go birds. It's Andy Green World! I would do that.

You should. You should build bridges. You know, maybe you walk up to, you find a Cowboys fan out there on the picket line outside of Netflix. And you say, hey, brother, we're in this, we're in the same fight today. Probably DGA. Right? Some DGA guy with a Romo jersey.

And you're like, hey, remember when we broke your pelvis? What's up, Andy? Is today just going to be Eagles Pod? Like, should we warn people? You know what? Sometimes we struggle to like piece together a functional show. I don't mind saying that. You know, we've been doing this for a really long time.

And it's like, what do you want to watch? What do you want to watch? What do you want to talk about? Is there any more lioness meat left on the bone? Uh-huh. I appreciate, by the way, Kaya. You put in the Lion King music in there. That was top-notch.

Did you do that? Oh, yeah. I was curious because, like, Sometimes I'll be like, Kaya, play Stravinsky's Fourth Symphony, and she doesn't do it. That's because she's on Twitter. I got to be careful about, you know, the fairies, the legal, yeah. So pick and choose. Because I think I asked for Danny Boy recently, and I didn't hear Danny Boy.

That seems to be more public domain than the Disney-owned Lion King soundtrack. I mean, I don't want to get in trouble here. Yeah, but we do, you know, we do Aiger counter and big Bob Aiger fans on this podcast. I can't imagine anybody from Disney having our problem with the podcast we're about to do, because today we are going to be talking about this. the 12,000 word article on CNBC about the succession collapse between Bob Iger and Bob JPEC at Disney. We're also going to chat a little bit about reservation dogs. Andy, I had...

This is like going to be the girl dinner of podcast, isn't it? It is. It's just like a little bowl of olives, a couple of slices of cheese. Maybe a flatbread? Yeah, maybe. Maybe just some kettle chips, you know? And just a spritz. I told myself I was going to turn that off.

My bad. Andy, I have a professional question. And then I have like a quasi-professional personal anxiety thing I want to express to you before we get to Disney. So I'm so excited about this. Let's start with professional. You're in the driver's seat today. I saw an article on the deadline website about overall deals being suspended as we enter week three billion of what at least feels like with this strike. Bill Lawrence, Mindy Kaling, Greg Berlanti, three of our sort of like most prolific and successful showrunners out there.

And likely JJ Abrams have all been notified that. their overall WBTV deals have been suspended due to the strike. Yeah. The quote unquote suspended time will very likely just be added on to the expiration date of those respective deals of the overall pay days. This seems, why is this an article? And why is this at all notable? No, as far as I can tell.

So this is something that everyone was expecting to happen, but also very likely happened months ago. I see. Most of the people that I know who are under overall deals from the studios were, and the industry term is suspend and extend. Gotcha. So the time you miss from the suspension gets added on to the back end. So if the strike lasts six months, you get the time. They're just, it's suspended for now. I was worried about these guys.

Yeah, hand to mouth for this cohort. I think it is possible that some of these companies were suspended at different times, depending on where they were with the production half of their duties. For example, if one of these creators, their company was posting a show that had already been finished or, basically, basically non-union-covered work, then I would understand why maybe they kept the paychecks flowing. But, yeah, not, as far as I can tell, not major news, what seemed significant was that this was Warner Brothers leaking or announcing or quietly whispering that they had done this. Maybe to, I actually couldn't even imagine their strategy. I think the most important thing is, you know, we are doing, much like the late night hosted with Strike Force. five, we're going to do something similar for these guys. Like, I just want to make sure John Wells can eat.

Yeah. You know? So we're going to worry about them and take care of them because we take care of our own. Yeah. It's just a weird moment. Anyway, it's a weird moment. There is a vacuum of news related to the strikes. The vibe feels eerie.

The vibe is weird, and I don't have any substantive updates other than it doesn't feel great right now. The quickest possible update. The state of play, as I understood it, was last week before Labor Day, the CEOs were meeting. I'd love to know where they meet. I hope at Carroll's suggestion, it was the Olive Garden. The Denny's on Gower? I mean, I've been there, not bad. That's one of Angeline's favorite spots.

Yes. A legendary Hollywood hang out. And I think they were trying to get their story straight and see what their tolerance level was for moving the offer and coming back to the writers. The Labor Day holiday, though quite, you know, representation. insignificant and symbolic, was actually poorly timed this year because I do think the CEOs, maybe we would have gotten some sense of how that meeting went had there not been a three-day weekend. The other unfortunate thing was the Guild has been relatively quiet about negotiations except when press or when events warrant. But Labor Day demanded some sort of comment.

So I think that there was some not frustration in the Guild, but nature of Hors of Vacuum. So they wanted people, people that I speak to and I'm hearing from wanted more updates, but there really weren't any updates to give other than our guy, Chris Kaiser, giving a little, you know, the history of Labor Day video. Yeah. Which was appreciated because all these guys are working really hard on the negotiating committee for, by the way, zero dollars. Oh, yeah. They did not negotiate salaries for themselves from the guild. They're doing all this for free, which is kind of incredible. You know, so I think they can probably get on like a slack with Mindy.

and JJ and just be like, so here's what it's like living hand to mouth. No, jokes aside, I kind of hope that there would be some movement from the studios this week. A lot of chatter in the industry that we're reaching sort of Yeah, event horizon. A vent horizon for whether there will be any television

this year or summer movies next year. If you read stuff, like if you read Richard Rushfield or Matt Bellany and you see these sort of like icebergs on the horizon where it's like if they don't start rolling on movies in January. And this is also, I think it's worth mentioning to people who don't live here and maybe are outside of this industry.

I'm sure we have lots of listeners who don't know this. Like, this place basically shuts down at Thanksgiving. It sometimes shuts down the week before Thanksgiving because people are like, it's a week before Thanksgiving. And then it literally feels like no one comes back to work until the middle of January. I've had notes calls pushed because of Halloween. Yeah. So I think that the reason why people are starting to get really jumpy is that there is actually

only two months left in the working year here. And this is getting really real. It's been real for a long time. So I was saying if they don't start rolling on certain things on January, the summer movies are essentially in jeopardy, except for the ones that they have moved from this summer to next summer. And taking even a step back, like the economic and life impact on people who work in the industry,

not just writers and actors, but below the fold and crews, I mean, it's devastating. And it's actually you can't even kind of comprehend. It's kind of incomprehensible at the moment. So what I think we're seeing right, now is the part that's the hardest for anyone to stomach, but also the hardest to predict, which is there's a gamesmanship element here. No one on either side of the strike has ever said that they don't believe there will be a deal. A deal is going to happen. There will be content made

again and people will get back to work. This is the part that's the hardest to parse because this is not, this sort of like, are they talking or who's going to blink first and what are we going to talk about when we talk? And what's the appetite for a deal now that it has been a couple weeks of frustration and a couple, you know, months now on from when SAG joined the picket lines and gave everyone a shot in the arm, what's the next thing that's going to,

what's the next domino that's going to fall? So it's kind of a, it's a staring contest. And by the time this podcast posts, there might be some news or there might not be some news for 10 more days. But it's an uncomfortable moment. And prayers up for bad robot. Yeah.

You know, I was going to mention just in terms of watching stuff. I'm going through it a little bit right now because I love this show called Top Boy that's on Netflix. I think I talked to the creator, Ronan Bennett, like about, I can't mean when season three of Top Boy, but season one of the new Top Boy came out.

Because it was a British show that had cult success and then it came back on Netflix. Was Drake involved in pushing this? Yeah, the executive producer list of Top Boy's revival is pretty impressive because it's like Drake and some OVO guys and then Maverick Carter. And it was like a kind of beloved cult hit that became now this international crime story since station.

It's set in London and Hackney largely. Well, there's some stuff in Jamaica and elsewhere. And I don't know. I mean, I guess you could describe it as like some, you could describe it as the British wire. But I think it's, you know, it has its own vibe. It has its own way of going. And I'm like eight episodes behind And the new season starts tonight

And I haven't had this anxiety in a while Like usually with Netflix shows I think it's more for things like stranger things Where you're like if you're behind on stranger things somehow Like you know and you're still watching it Like usually if you like stranger things You just watch it but you know like I'm worried about like the that ending of top boy

Damn you know And just feel like I don't want to miss this But I'm very fired up for this season Because Barry Kehan is on it And he was like apparently like like I just basically demanded to be on the show. Because he loves it? Yeah.

Which I think is tight as shit. That's cool. Yeah. I wish more people did stuff like that. I agree. Stop worrying about what your IMDB page looks like. And just be like, you know what? I like Top Boy.

I'm going to be on that. Yeah. That's a pretty cool move. Yeah. So I'm firing through episodes that I've been behind on. Do you ever get anxiety though where you're like, I like this thing? And you fall behind. And then when you fall behind, it becomes insurmountable.

That's my life. I feel that about almost everything. Do you mean, are we talking about television? Oh. Yeah, sure. Parenting. Yeah, and I don't know how to remedy it. Yeah.

Frankly, like, remember when I was going to catch up to you with For All Mankind? Yeah. Didn't make it. I felt behind him for All Mankind, too. I will say, though, I had an experience the other night. A friend of mine and I were supposed to maybe get a drink and we didn't. You're that friend. I know.

But it was a mutual decision. I think you and I both were like, who amongst us in our mid-40s are going to start drinking at nine, right? That was what it came down to. I was not free until a later time. Yeah. But we both had, you know what was that?

Honestly, you know what's sort of sad about this? I feel like we both shared a great time of thinking it was going to happen. Well, I was very excited. At first I was like, I'm not going to be able to go out. And then I was actually, I was free. Yeah. And then as the time moved later, I was like, pretty comfy.

And I was comfy watching Top Boy. Okay. And I had the experience I haven't really had in a while of like, I'm just gonna roll into another one. Oh, you just let it play? Yeah, it's engaging enough that,

I mean, I love the show, but it is just engaging enough that you're like, this is like, I have to watch this. I can't like also look at my phone. I can't also like go do anything else. I know, I don't mean this is like a laundry thing. I just mean like, you know,

sometimes you get distracted. But it is not like, it's not something where I, I'm just like, I'm living and dying by like what happens in this scene and I need to turn it off because it was so intense. And so that makes it like this perfect like from 8 to 11. I just watched Top Boy and I was like, this is pretty nice fucking night. So you're just rolling. Ice cold, Medello, just chilling, you know, thinking about stuff.

The number one beer in America. You heard that? Yeah. I mean, it is the number one cold beer in America. Oh, I don't just mean like the best. I just mean like apparently it overtook. Yeah, I'm just saying, and there's no free ads. I really like Madelo, but you got to keep that shit cold.

That's what beer's supposed to be. Yeah, but as... Apologies to the juice wool. Chris, I was at a market. I won't say like a bodega. It's like, you know, these things have they've just spread across the country now, or at least certain metro areas. Not like, I don't know what to call them, like fancy markets.

Like you go in and you can get olives. Oh, yeah, courts street grocers type things. Skin contact nonsense and all this. And so I'm looking at the line of beers and, you know, generally, I'm like, I'm not interested in these because I don't want to drink a beer that's 12.9% alcohol and flavored with chocolate malt. Like, everyone have your own, you know, follow your bliss, but that sounds gross. Yeah. And then I noticed that finally, my interests and the interests of some members of the microbrewing community have a line.

Yeah. Because I saw a beer, I know free ads, I literally don't remember the name of it. And the name of it, but like the underneath the brand, it was like not an American. light lager. Basically, like, wink, wink. And the bottle looks like, the can looks like Coors Light. It is 3.7% alcohol, and it costs $9. Why don't you just get Coors Light, though? I, first of all, I love a Coors Light. But I also love to be pandered to and upsold. Yeah, I was in that zone for a while, where they were, you know, it was like, it was like

the beer can from Repo Man, and it just said beer on it. And I was like, yeah, this is what I want. And I was like, you know what? the people in Anheiser-Busch need me. You feel like they need you? Yeah. You stood by them during their recent public relations fiasco? I had to go back to the fam, yeah. Wow.

You just wanted to smash the heart, support them. Greenwald, did you know that? Were we done talking about beer anxiety? Yeah, I'm trying to move through because there's a big, I want to get to this Disney thing. I guess I just wanted my one comment to your response. I think I understand what you're talking about, and it is a very specific streaming era sensation.

I thought you're still talking about Medello. I would love to do that, but you're running a tight ship today. I think you kind of have to get in the right vibe for it. It sounds like you did. I did, and I also, but, you know, I think that it's, yeah, go ahead. The only time that I have had that recently was on an airplane. On an airplane when, and this is the rarest thing for me on airplanes now is not sobriety. and it is not finding a random movie to watch

and tell you about as if I discovered it. Have you ever heard of the firm? Interstellar. Not those things. The rarest thing for me when traveling is to have possession of my iPad because I have children. You talk such a big game

about knocking stuff out on the plane and then immediately you're like I've lost my iPad and I have to watch bullet train. Do you know that the way like you know that like if you Google image search Ben Affleck and the accountant, that's me downloading content before a trip that I will not be able to watch. I think about every streaming service. I think about all the things we've talked

about, the promises I've made to you in our listeners. I prepare three to four episodes of each, like a lovely, a lovely charcutory platter for myself. Yeah, a guy dinner. And then within seconds, which, which iPad has Bluey on it? Goodbye. Mine. Anyway. Is it in, is it in, are we in talks for a child's iPad yet? Oh, I mean, who do you think is leading that charge? Carol Lombardy. Basically. Basically.

It's amazing if your daughter said Carol Lomari. My thing is, this is not a negotiation. Yeah, right. Like, they have a list of asks. Sure. But it's not a negotiation. Yeah, it's not a democracy. Anyway, I just wanted to say that I had this with,

our favorite show, Drops of God, on the brief moment on the flight recently. where I got to watch three and a half episodes, and I was in heaven. Yeah. It was a wonderful experience just rolling with a show that I don't think it's similar to Top Boy in any respect. Yeah. But it is not too demanding, nor is it uninteraining. Yeah. It's not work.

It was just pleasure. You're going to check that out. I finished it. Drops of God you finished. I'll watch them this weekend. I swear on my life that I will watch them this weekend. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Ever have a plan come together out of nowhere?

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I was going to ask you about Asoka, but I don't really think we have any things substance. I've watched it. I know that it's a very important episode to Star Wars fans, and I can see why. Star Wars rebels fans, right? Yeah, the larger Star Wars community, Rebels fans specifically, I think it was paced better.

I can see why it's like, oh, this is what we were hoping for. I still don't think it's really my vibe, respectfully. But, you know, I get it. I heard was my understanding that the next episode is going to be released in theaters

like you have to go watch it in a movie theater well I think it's also going to be released in theaters wow yeah I don't have a response

I guess that would be by the Disney Corporation which segues well into this piece so is thrown back yet he's not right almost like it's like we're going to get him

my thing guys you know this my thing about there was a lot of stuff about a map The map apparently was very, it was hot. Like when Assook tried to touch the map, it hurt. Right.

And then she kind of lost left wing mobility for a while at a fight that she had. And then she winds up in the world between worlds. My thing is when you look at the problems that the Star Wars franchises had in the last 10, 15 years, and reasonable people can disagree about what they were. Yeah, because across the aisle. And the path forward. The spirit of bipartisanship can still exist in Star Wars. But I think one thing that we all agreed on

is that really the problem with Star Wars was why only one galaxy far, far away? That is the... We're done with stories here. Yeah. We went to the wave planet. We went to the fish planet. We went to the volcano planet.

Let's move on. We've seen it all. Right? That's my take. I just want it to be that the galaxy that they find is ours. That would be sick. And then they come to Earth.

What time in human history would you like the Star Wars people to arrive? Wow, it's a great question. And do you think it would be just good if they came now and they could use the force to end the strike? I think now would be awesome. I just feel like everything's going real well. And I feel like just everyone would be really open-minded about some new friends with stuff on their heads. You know?

Yeah, it's a big tent. Do you think if they arrived speaking in the cadence of Asoka, like the TikTok generation would be here for it? Like, do you think they would be like, welcome? This lady just showed up on a spaceship and she's serving. I think, no, I think they'd be like, well, they take as much time between sentences as Mitch McConnell does. That's true. It's not funny. It is kind of funny.

Who's more offended right now? Kentucky voters or Star Wars fans? Well, let's move on to the House of Mouse and see if we can offend some more people. Andy, 12,000 word article. I don't know why I keep saying that. I worked at Grantland. By Alex Sherman. Way to take accountability.

That was very un-Johnison-Gannon-like of you. And it's an amazing piece. It's basically about the last four years of Disney from the time when Bob Eiger was first identifying his first round of succession. Yeah. And identifies Bob Chepec over a couple of other candidates. And, you know, I think that as someone who's always looked at different industries, like when you're looking at a baseball manager

and I, you know, I think a lot of people are like, I could fucking manage the A's, you know what I mean? Like, you know, I could, what is Tony LaRosa doing? I know how to work with guys, like pitchers. I know how to work with guys. I always try to get people to benefit the doubt. Like, you know, there's probably a lot of nuances to this job that we don't appreciate as Monday morning quarterbacks

are just like, oh, you should have done this. And it's like, well, maybe there's a reason why they didn't do it. And when you read an article like this, which even saying, but there's no disrespect to Alex Sherman, the author of the piece, but let's just say 75% of it is dead on accurate and some of it is hearsay. It's amazing how much this is just like everyday life.

And it's just like, two guys talk and they each are passive aggressive with each other and walk out of the conversation with differing impressions of what was decided and a global megacorporation gets fucked because of it. Or the direction to that global mega corporation and get rerouted because someone suggested going for a hike. Yes.

That's the most LA part of the story. I love that. Andy, I wanted to go through a little bit of this piece. Now, our listeners may not have read it. And so we're not going to go beat by beat. I also want people to check it out if they get a chance. I do think broadly, people will enjoy reading this piece because of the palace intrigue of it. And also the reminder for anyone who needs it, that Succession really was a documentary in a lot of ways.

Yeah. Obviously, that's about a family. but just in terms of the insanely 24-7 performative nature of these positions in this era of capitalism. Yeah. That everything they do is reflected through how it will impact shareholders and what perceptions will be, and that that is the main driver of everything. Yeah. It's a wild piece.

I thought we could maybe loosen up a little bit in talking about this. Okay. And we're going to play a game. By the way, I want you to know. You didn't notice, but I want you. to know that I came in prepared to do this. Like Bob Chappek near the end of his tenure, I'm attempting to humanize myself by not shaving.

This is a real detail from the piece. I have to admit, I'm not a comms expert, but that was true. It did seem like he was like a more normal dude with the... And that's kind of like why I'm growing my mustache out, you know, like... And I know that you've often said like great mustache. I often say that. And it is. but my fingers touching his face provocatively.

It actually says that he was encouraged to grow the beard and keep it because it, quote, humanized him. I'm looking at a picture of him from that era, and it really just makes him look like Lex Luthor. Sure. Because my question is, like, if you grow a beard to humanize you, but you still, like, radically shave the entire top of your head to the point where the beard starts. Yeah. I find that a little odd. That doesn't seem human. You have to cut it.

There has to be some... shading, you know, there has to be some contrast. Or just let everything grow and see where the chips fall. Right? That's when you look like... Never mind. I want to play a game with you. Okay?

There's a ton of great details in this piece, so I thought we could play a game called Which Bob Are You? Oh, okay. Okay? Yeah. So I'm going to read a couple of just snippets of this article from Alex Sherman, and then I'm going to ask you a little bit of a question afterwards, okay? Yeah.

this is from when the transition is first beginning, or first being discussed. Iger didn't want to move out of his office. It had a private shower built for former CEO Michael Eisner and a vanity for shaving. Iger, now 72, consistently woke up at 4.15 a.m. to work out and then shower. On evenings when Iger was heading out for a Disney premiere, award show, or a benefit, he would often take a second shower, this time in the office.

Yeah. Iger told Chepeck that he lived for those two shower days according to people familiar with the conversation. I have to imagine that that is Bob Chappek because it sounds like something one man says to another and not to a group of people. It's awesome when it's familiar with that conversation. You mean the other guy? My question is Andy to ask to find out which Bob are you?

Do you live for two shower days? I got to be honest with you. I do like two shower days. I got to say they're fucking awesome. If you shower for a second time, it means that you've like experienced the world in all four dimensions, you know? Or you have more day to come.

Yeah. Like maybe you do it. Maybe you're starting to get a little sleepy because you've had such a full and rich day and you need to pep yourself back up. I mean, like if I'm showering a second time, it's because I've worked out. Yeah. Or it's because something happened where I was just like, man, I got like physically, I extended myself a little bit.

And now I need to shower and get ready for the rest of the evening. Or you reek of Newport's. because the day went a little sideways on you. Kai, are we wrong about this? Like a two-shower day is something to be proud of, I think. Proud of, but also, that sounds like a lot. This sounds like a tiring day. Can I just say, I think for gals it's different because the hair.

Yes. Yeah. I would never wash my hair twice in one day. My wife is often, like, I really would love, I'd love to jump in the shower, but I don't want to get my hair wet again. You know, there's a... Yes, accurate. I don't want to, like, mansplain here,

But I've heard tell there are devices that one could put on one's head. Yeah. You call it what you will. Okay. What were you going to say? A bat helmet? Fucking old Zabar's bag. Okay, so we're both Bob Eiger in this case.

Yeah. So, Kaya is a little bit of Iger, a little bit of Chepech. I think I'm leaning Cheapak on this one. Kaya's Cheapak in this one. Wow. Okay. Next personality question here. Okay.

This is great. I love this game. All right. Quote, he's a risk taker who's not afraid to up, this is about Cheapek. He's a risk taker who's not afraid to up been the status quo, but he's not a schmoozer by nature. Not a schmoozer by nature. Whereas Iger holds court around his Brentwood mansion, a short stroll from celebrities,

producers, super agents, and other Disney executives. Cheapac lives about an hour's drive from downtown Los Angeles in Westlake Village. That's so wild. Iger enjoys yachting. Cheapac is more of a powerboating and kayaking kind of guy. Are you more of a Brentwood yacht man or a Westlake Village kayaker? I think we all know the answer to this. I don't know.

You don't know about me. I mean, I'm an Iger. Okay. I think aspirational, we're igers. But as the other evening shows, when we refused, although only five minutes from each other, refused to go get drinks with one another, perhaps there's a little chapeck inside. Oh, like more of a homebody? Yeah, just a quiet kayaker.

There's a lot to parse here because the thing is, I am not a bold risk taker. in business or in life. I love to schmooze. I would much rather talk than work as evidenced by my robust podcasting career. And that, yeah, this is an easy one for me. Also, I hate a long commute. And where Chepec lives is real far away.

Which is ironic, because I know this about you. You spend 94% of your life in a car. But that's children-based. That's a children-related. metric. Yeah. A lot of ferrying. Okay,

Kai, what are you here? Do you like to... I keep thinking. Are you a schmoozer or a homebody? I think I'm more of a schmoozer and I'm definitely more inclined to the Brentwood lifestyle than the West Lake Village lifestyle.

Okay. I've never actually been to West Lake Village, if I have to be honest. There's not a lot going on there. George Gankis teaches golf there, I think, which would be very attractive to me. Whom? George Gankis, he's sort of the wizard of Westlake.

He just, like, lays hands on you, as it said, and really fixes your swing. Oh, for golf is. And it's a lot of like pelvis thrusting. Yeah, again, you keep confusing me about what this man does for you. Yeah, if you watch his videos, it'll change your life. No, I'm good. And he talks about getting external.

Okay. Okay. running around. No, Kaya's Instagram leans Eiger. I just didn't know if there was like a Chaypec inside where she's just like, honestly, I'd rather just be me and a kayak and then home before dark. Kayaking is really hard. It takes like a lot of energy.

It's much tougher than it was. Yeah. Okay. Last one. Last personality question. Iger doesn't mention Chaepec once in his 2019 autobiography outside of the prologue. Even though by then, Chepec was at least tentatively in line to be Iger's preferred successor. For comparison, Eiger spends more than five pages of his 236-page book discussing Twin Peaks.

Andy, who would get mentioned more in your autobiography, me or Twin Peaks? That's the right framing of that question. I'd choose not to answer now in order to preserve this podcast. I knew you were going to say that. I love Twin Peaks. Don't make me choose between the great loves of my life. I can only assume that Kaya, we'd have to probably, I don't know if Kaya is much of a Twin Peaks fan, but we would substitute in Below Deck for Twin Peaks and then I guess the watch for us,

for me, right? Yeah, we're not, we're getting a footnote maybe. In the Kaya Autobiography, would you say that your production on the watch or your enjoyment of the show Below Deck gets? Of course my production of the watch. This is the most meaningful experience of my life. Don't, this is schmoozing. This is schmoozing.

Kaya is a young woman with many talents and a long career ahead of her that she will not remember this. No, I know. With good reason. And she'll have showers once a day, so she has all this time on her hands, so that's great. But jokes, this was a great bit. I loved it. I always thought I was more of a bake-ish, but apparently, when it comes to Bob's, I'm an Iger. The other thing that

we have to mention it, I don't know if I actually knew this, but just in terms of Iger's place and the watch is firmament is we've often joked about Kyah dropped the Iger counter music, and we play the Chernobyl music. Bob Iger has a poster of the Iger's

sanction the Clint Eastwood movie in his office with the change to I-G-E-R. Instead of E-I-G-E-R. Yeah. So Bob's in on the joke. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He seems, he's schmoozing. People love him.

He makes, you know, well, sometimes he makes off-color jokes as detailed in this piece. I would say what was interesting about the story was ultimately what put Cheapek in trouble is what the perception was around town that he was not creatively minded and he was not in, he did not have those connections that Iger did. It's a relationship's business. It's a relationship's business and as evidenced by things like the Scarlett Johansson screw up with the, you know, the public statement that was excoriating her for being mad about the putting black widow on for COVID essentially. Yeah. That was an insane statement. What we learned in the piece is that the reason the statement was insane was because the two bobs wouldn't speak to each other. And so neither one said this is too much.

They both were like, yeah, the statement looks good, but both thought the other was like responsible for it. So that's how those things happened. But the creative stuff was true. And then he clearly like just overhired and added layers of bureaucracy to everything in ways that were caused dysfunction. But it does seem when you read the piece that the actual reason why he was booted and when he was booted was that he was in apparently complete denial about what the earnings report at the end of last year would mean for the company stock. Yes. And it does sound like that went sideways on him with the actual earnings report where I believe Christine McCarthy was the CFO kind of was like they rehearsed their presentation for quite a while and then she went out there and kind of

went rogue one on him yeah there's some real carolina and hugo and like who's person is who's intrigue within the piece but i i i just mean that like for all the reasons that we thought this happened we were we like the town matt belney and you know people who cover this business more on that side of the ball more thoroughly were right broad strokes but the fact that it really does seemed to come down to the fact that he was like, we're going to be fine, and they were not fine. Well, here's the thing. So I read this whole thing, but beyond it just being like an amazing,

amazingly detailed account of this bungled transfer of power, and of course, Iger comes back into the CEO chair spectacularly, and, you know, Chepex fired and isn't even allowed to, like, send out a goodbye email and all this stuff. It's an amazingly vivid portrait of a company going through the last four years, and was incredibly evocative of the way COVID changed everything. And it made me all the more stunned and frankly, I find it so galling that the studios are willingly reentering

this state of things that they were experiencing during COVID. You would think that if you had gone through the COVID shutdowns and gone through the need to shut down parks and shut down production, and all of the turmoil it was caused by putting films on streaming services, which while somewhat medicinal for people to be like, oh, good, a new movie is out on Friday on Max or on Disney, like completely hamstrung the industry, obviously,

and like caused this huge fracture within the business in terms of people's levels of trust and torpedoed theatrical until Top Gunn, and then later Barbenheimer kind of revived it. The idea of walking back, into this, the fact that we open this podcast up with, like, if they don't start rolling in January, we're not going to have summer movies and, like, they're starting to move stuff around because they don't know when anybody's going to be able to promote something. And, you know, Agatha got the Coven of whatever got moved to late 24. That was so wild. Essentially is like, oh, you see,

the continuity of these things now is not in any way. Like, that was part of the value ad of the MCUs. You had to watch everything because to understand the next thing you needed to have seen the stinger at the end of Loki. But like, the fact that they are blindly walking back into the abyss after having gone through a once in a millennia kind of experience is fucking crazy. It's crazy, man. And I just, I can't help but like, there's a line here in the piece that I thought is basically the crux of the issue facing modern mass storytelling.

And I'm coming off of reading a bunch of Richard Linklater interviews in Deadline and Hollywood Reporter that are honestly like heartbreaking to read him talk about like where we're at as a storytelling industry and what happened to independent cinema and honestly what also happened to the brains of the new generation of consumers who are just basically like yeah movies and books don't really matter to me you know but this is this line from Sherman's piece that I thought was really interesting companies such as Netflix Amazon and Apple also separate distribution divisions from content creation. So there's this whole section of the piece

about how Chaepex is essentially trying to bifurcate Disney into like there's operations and there's editorial. Like you could even think. So historically at Disney, if you were the head of a division, you're Allenhorn or whatever. Movies or Dana Walden now,

formerly Dana Walden and Peter Rice, at the television side of it, they commissioned the work through their lieutenants, set the budgets for the work and then decided how to present the work. This was a streaming show. This was going to be a mini-series event.

etc., etc. What Chaypec did was say that you guys create, you guys bake the bread and deliver them to the warehouse and then we'll put them on shelves. We'll figure out how to get in on the truck and take it to the store. It will be up to us to decide

what movies and TV shows go where, when, and how. Okay, so here's the line. Companies such as Netflix, Amazon, and Apple also separate distribution divisions from content creation. So that's obviously like you're mirroring these tech giants.

And Chaypec hoped that adopting a similar structure would move Disney away from its legacy media habits. Investors valued Netflix far higher than legacy media because of its growth profile. If JPEC could get investors to view Disney as a technology company, they might reward him with a share price multiple bump. People fucking love Disney. I know. They go to Disney world. Their kids shape their identities around Disney characters. Why do you need a growth profile? there it is. What is, like, this is the thing. It's like, why do you, you have Snow White. Yeah. You have Iron Man. Make more of that. You know, like, why are you, like, we need to be in the metaverse? Why do they need to be a tech company? Well, everything needs to be something more than it is. Am I being naive? No, I mean, this is also, like, this isn't, this isn't a modern business story. This is an American story that everybody needs to be able to do everything and be good at everything. And it always needs to be more, more, more. It's never about doing one good thing. It's never about being present with anything. But the insanity of this that we're being run by the guy from like, what's like light shed,

like the analysts who are like, well, I don't think that Apple phone is going to be good. And then the market changes. Like, that's who's dictating everything. And I'm old enough to remember stories that said Netflix was in a precarious position going forward because for as much as it knew how to get people watching things and deliver the content to people's homes, it didn't have any brands. It didn't have any IP. It didn't have any personal connection

that caused people to love it. It didn't have any of the insurance that provides when there are strikes or when times get tough so that they don't have cruise lines and amusement parks and toys. That was a problem. And that was what was going to get Disney through.

And that was, I guess, essentially, Iger's strategy when he just bought all the characters during the last few years of his first stewardship. That's why you see, Netflix over the last few years trying to make stranger things a bigger thing than it is. It's why they do like comedy festivals and pop-up restaurants.

There's like the Tadum thing where it's like supposed to be there. I mean, it's essentially their up-fronts, right? But they're trying to make themselves a personality to buy themselves what these other legacy companies have had. And then there was a great restructuring where the biggest problem that these content companies had is that they weren't Microsoft in 1983 or Amazon in 2001, that they weren't limitless growth opportunities for shareholders.

And so how are they going to become that? Because no one can just be what they are. Yeah. And then it reverses again based on the whims of the market. And it's bad for everybody. It's bad for everybody. Like, was it bad that Chepec reorganized everything and completely changed the structure of distribution and creation at the company?

Probably. Sure. Is it better that Eiger undid it all? I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. It's pretty unclear. And I think we are also entering a moment where there is no, in any of these companies, we're seeing it in the strike and we're just seeing it as we stare down the barrel of the uncertain future that whatever these companies are, they don't make sense in any traditional understanding of companies.

And as it says in the CNBC piece, probably the biggest problem that Disney faces existentially isn't any of the reorgs we're talking about. It's that only Bob Eiger is alive who is the person who can do this job, the job that he created. Only he has the talent relationships and the understanding of- Only he can be the senator from Kentucky. Literally, that's the case. And that's kind of where I was going with it. That if you don't train people, if you don't consider your company to be like a living organism that has value separate and a part of its shareholder value, then what are you?

Yeah. Your captain of the Demeter. Well, and I also think that- You're captain of the Demeter. Yeah, right. And the other issue here, I mean, to your point, I mentioned the link later interviews that he's been doing. He's got this film Hitman that's been playing at festivals with Glenn Powell, and it's supposed

to be really good. But he's obviously one of the founding fathers of the independent cinema movie industry that blossomed in the 90s when we were kind of coming of age and seeing films like Slacker and before Sunrise kind of changed the way we thought about our generation's ability to make art, I think, in a lot of ways. So he gives this quote. And Linklater's like, been a studio director. He's done remakes.

He's done. He's not like a shrinking violent, like where he's like, you know, scandalized by certain things. But he said this. He said, quote, you think maybe we should retrench and look at what worked before. Is it against the law to try and craft a greatest hits of the past and go back to a paradigm that used to work? Is that so bad? What was the company whose motto was move fast and break? things. Yeah, well, that's where we are. It's broken. Thanks. I hope your stock price went up a bunch

and that you made a lot of money that you selfishly hoarded in some offshore account. Go create a village for yourself in New Zealand. He's not a bomb thrower either. If you talk to him, he's like one of the most laid back cool guys. Yeah, I talked to him for everybody wants them. We talked about baseball. He was great. I did an event with him with our friend Melissa's book about Dason Confused. Great book, by the way. People should check it out. He's not. He's not. that guy. I mean, he is that. We've all become that guy. But that's just such a good, you know, that is, that is looking at, hey, regardless of your feelings about Disney and, and it's sort of monopoly on childhood or whatever, it's like, there are some pretty indelible stories and characters involved in that. And they had four years shown that they were able to keep manufacturing new, new mythologies for people to be invested in. And I think one of the things that you've seen over the last couple of years is like this precipitous quality drop off. Well, that's also a shift, because what you're speaking to generationally with Disney was, yeah, there are a lot of characters that people came to fall in love with, but they fell in love with the characters because of the creativity and of the creators and of the stories that were poured, the characters were in service to, right? And then the shift with these giant billion dollar acquisitions of IP was that we were servicing the IP.

You have to keep the ball in the air. I mean, literally in some cases, like if Sony ever stopped developing Spider-Man content, Marvel would get it back. Right. So they cannot stop doing that. It's just a very, very different way of doing business that people have heard us talk about for 10 years in increasingly alarming or alarmist terms, for sure. But, yeah, I mean, the spirit of Disney

isn't in flooding the zone with Ironman spin-offs. That's not what people talk about. It's scarcity sometimes. I mean, like, you think about the way they used to, you know, put out VHS tapes and then pull them from shelves to essentially create like thirst they would like do controlled droughts.

I think that's probably coming back. I think that that's very likely to come back. And that was a Bob JPEC strategy. I don't know what that means for Disney Plus subscriber numbers. Another huge detail in this piece is like the sort of falling short of projections. And there's even like a, you wouldn't even believe it if you read it moment in the piece where Sherman says

like they're a certain number, but only at this number if you subtract India, and it's like the two fucking India's thing from succession. They're always taking out India. It's always the numbers with India and without India. And then there's the other India. I don't know, man. I just thought that the Linklater quotes really dovetailed nicely into this Sherman piece, and I thought that the Sherman piece was gripping, but also like so illuminating

and representative of like where we find ourselves, where it's like we have somehow driven this car into the ocean, you know? Yeah, and the moments, you know, in culture, but also the moments in things like our podcast that reflect culture where we can just be just open-hearted and celebratory, like after the Barbenheimer weekend are fewer and farther between.

Yeah. It's not complicated. It's hard to make good things, but it's not complicated, but all of these other business factors have made it almost impossibly complicated. This episode is brought to you by the Active Cash Credit Card from Wells Fargo. That's a mouthful, but that's because it packs a lot in.

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with no artificial sweeteners and three grams of prebiotic fiber. Pepsi prebiotic cola. Unbelievably Pepsi. Should we wrap up by talking a little bit about reservation dogs? What else is on your agenda? I thought you were talking about

you had this big PowerPoint, you had a bunch of stuff. That was it. That was it walking through Alex Sherman's piece. Can I think about Top Boy? You don't want to talk about the Nintendo news I sent you. don't that's popular people want to hear about that it actually is semi relevant i did want to i mean if i got to

talk about top boy you could talk about zeld i'm not going to talk about zelda per se although i would love to i i did send you this link because i do think it's interesting in in regards to the way the way the industry is moving anyway which is to say this six years ago yeah the nintendo corporation released the the first of this this this iteration of zelda games breath of the wild Breath of the Wild, yeah. One of, if not the best games ever made, total paradigm changer,

minted money for the company. It was released in conjunction with the release of the Switch. I was around the same time as the Switch, yes. I don't think it was a launch title, but it was what sold the Switch, that and Mario Card.

And after a year or so of that game, which is just almost unlimited how much you can do with it, they release a DLC, which that's not, I did not know what that was,

but I learned. It's like an upgrade. Downloadable content. So you pay a little more money. You pay an extra 20 bucks. And then you have access. You download and suddenly your game has more stuff to do. Yeah, right.

And that made a mint. And it kept the interest in the game going. And it sustained it until Tears of the Kingdom was released. And when Tears of the Kingdom was released, everyone's like, my God, how did they make this so much bigger, exponentially bigger, et cetera, et cetera. Think how much fun it'll be in 18 months

when they release even more. Because that's what everyone does. You want to squeeze every last profit dollar out of every success that you have. And the producers of the game gave an interview in Japanese that was then like quickly translated and disseminated basically where they say, no, we're done. We're done. This Tears the Kingdom actually started as more additional content because it's the same world

but with a huge world in the sky and huge world underground. And we feel like we've reached the limits of the story and it's been a beautiful experience or whatever, but we want to try something new. and the response to that is obviously people gnashing their teeth being like, I want more, I want more, I want more. But then there's the other half of the reaction where people are like, how could they leave a billion dollars in profit on the table like this? And I'm just like, maybe they should.

So, and this is not at all tied to they're going to do another switch. They are. There's going to be a new. Yes. Basically what they're saying. They're not like saying, they're not, yeah, they're not saying we're retiring from making art because we've reached the pinnacle of our craft. they are absolutely re-ruting their entire team to developing something that we won't know about for a number of years.

That will be a whole reimagination, reinvention of this for whatever comes after the switch in a year or two. Yes, this is not without its commercial backstory or at least shenanigans behind the scenes. But I just found that very refreshing, especially in light of what we're talking about, about everything being a volume business to squeeze everything of profit out of it. That is a company being like, we have made something that was meaningful for us and for for the consumer, and we are going to now devote our energies to doing something new. And I don't think CEOs get rewarded for that kind of talk, right? Like just not trying to be empathy for the CEO, but that is not something that you could say

if you were the head of Warner Brothers Discovery. Right. You could not say, you know, we really feel like... We feel like Harry Potter. We told the story. We told the story in the movies we made. Lord of the Rings, like perfect trilogy. Let's just move on.

Done. You cannot say that. Your job is to walk around and pick up the desiccated carcive things that have been left around and just try to rattle them for a little bit more juice. But I found that, I don't know, I found that interesting. It is really interesting. I always get like console anxiety when ever I think about buying like a new console, like am I buying the last month of the PS whatever before they come up with a new one?

Chris, you're misunderstanding something. being an old guy is awesome in this because who cares? Do you think I care about frame rate? Yeah, I guess not. Yeah, I actually, there is, I think FIFA's gotten too good. Right.

Or like, it's trying to mirror, like, I don't want it to actually be as hard as playing soccer. That's what I'm saying, yes. And so now they're like, you have to train, you have to do practice. And I'm like, I don't want to do practice. You're an adult with a job.

Yeah, I want to buy Mbapapé for Liverpool. Yes. And then I want to win three, won every match. Yes. I don't want to get too easy, but I don't want to lose. I finally gave

it, my children playing this Nintendo yes, my children play it, was after almost a full calendar year of me being like, I know that this Nintendo 64 that I found in an old backpack in the closet just reboots every 45 seconds, but during

those 45 seconds, we could have a lot of fun playing Perfect Dark. You know, they were not... You let your kids play perfect. Okay, so I did let them play... I brought it out for Mario Kart, which I thought really peaked with the 30-year-old system that I had it for. But then the other, they were... Eventually, they grew bored of having to restart.

And they're like, one of these other cartridges, and one of them was perfect dark, and they were traumatized. I had an experience when I was a child that I think was very formative in this regard. Okay. I remember... My parents were not very strict about stuff, but I think they encouraged healthy habits. Which I didn't disregard. once I hit like 15.

But like, and apparently you're continuing that disregard with FIFA. You don't want to train. You don't want to do things the right way. That's just not why I play video games. All right. Fucking make sure guys hamstrings work.

Or like that they're eating plant-based. Yeah, and that's another thing is you have like injury sliders set right where you're like, yeah, every once in a while, I love to see a guy like twist an ankle. So I have to bring in a different fullback. But like, I don't want like the dude I just paid a world record transfer fee to like blow his ACL out.

That happens. It's fucking bullshit. But when I was a kid, I remember hanging out with like some other children. And one day I was like eating an apple as like my dessert. And the kid was like, nice apple. And I was like, well, my mom says it's like basically like this. An apple can be as sweet as dessert. And this kid was like, it's not.

And he just showed me his twicks. And you know what? the kid was right. Twixes are better than apples. That's so wild because you learned about the world that day. But I was just like, yeah, you know, like, I understand what you're saying where we old guys don't have to worry about console upgrades or whatever, but sometimes you know the Twix is out there. Okay, but do you also understand? Like, I don't want to like, I think that your own person. Now that Twix did not cost $575. In today's dollars. I don't want to, I don't want to lead you to this observation. I think you would get there on your own, like maybe after we record.

But there is a corollary here to The Watch podcast where I'm like, this show about wine is really, really interesting and inclusive about people's taste experience and the value of aestheticism. And you're like, on lioness, someone ripped someone else's lungs out of their body. You realize that, right? Like, your Twix lifestyle is tearing us apart. No, I think that I'm generally, would you say that I'm the one who's like, I'm like disregarding your taste? No, no, but I think you are perhaps not incorrectly saying that just because it's good

for us doesn't mean it's fine. Oh, yeah. I'm like, right. You're a hedonist. If Taylor Sheridan was going to make drops of God, you would have made drops of God. Exactly. The drops of God in the Taylor Sheridan show are the arterial blood. Yeah, spilling out of a terrorist financier's throat. Should we just also mention, since we've steered back to your favorite topic, one of my favorite subplots of the podcast is that apparently for the last month, people have been thinking you've been calling, talking about a show called Linus? I disagree. I heard you really, really add some mustard to the O today. I just want to say, I frankly disagree.

You just don't think that's right. I mispronounce certain things. There are certain things I trip over. To me, I have never said Linus. I say Linus. Don't I? Kai, do you have an opinion on this? Do you think that he's leading us down the Charles Schultz Highway? I mean, I've heard Linus loud and clear every time. But, you know, those car speakers, those tinny...

Also, we know what he's saying. So we're hearing what we expect to hear. Maybe what you guys need to do is upgrade your sound system. Do you know that every time now that you say it, I think about people thinking you're saying Linus, and then I think about the greatest rap simile of the last 25 years, which is when Pusha just said the words, security blanket of cocaine, I am Linus, which is maybe my favorite lyric. He really said that. That's so crazy. That's so crazy.

Okay. Res dogs. Yeah, sure. Episode 7, written by Devery Jacobs. No, directed by. Directed by. Directorial debut. Bravo.

It's a beautifully shot episode. I believe she is also one of the list of directors for Echo. I know she's in Echo. I think she may have directed an episode or two of Echo, yeah. And this is, you know, we called it out every time we can. Like, this is what we're supposed to be doing. This is when we talked to Chris Storr about the Bear. And you're saying A.O. wanted to direct.

And so she was... Produce, yeah. She actually just like a producer for... And she was shadowing on the... I was going to say infamous, not infamous, now quite famous Christmas episode of Season 2 of the Bear. She'll be directing in season 3. That's awesome.

She also was a writer on the show. I do think that Reservation Dogs, a show that we adore, is not... I wish there were more things for us to be talking about at this time, honestly, because in a vacuum of other content, like I don't think this episode needs a full podcast

breakdown. If in fact for as lovely and as gentle and entertaining as it was, I found it slight. If only because, and I love Sarah Podemsky who plays Rita. I was glad she gets another showcase. She's just a phenomenal performer.

If only because the Reservation Dogs episode where a character is at a crossroads or experiencing some sort of is stuck paralysis and then a spirit shows up and in the first act freaks them out

and then in the second act helps them move on we've been doing that we've seen it and so simply from a storytelling point of view I was I'm always entertained

but I was not elevated by this episode yeah I thought I thought it had some beautiful moments you know and I actually the relationship between Rita and Bev is so funny you know like with their they're interacting

about needing to have an appointment to see the therapist. It's just really cracked me up. And I really admire the decision to make, I think, a season that feels like an epilogue rather than a final chapter. Oh, I like that, yeah. But in that same sense, I do feel like a lot of this season has been written in italics. You know, it's like the aftermath of these kids going to California and coming back and even the episodic structure of the season,

you could shuffle it largely. Like these episodes could kind of come in whatever order that they, like it doesn't necessarily feel linear to me, which is totally fine. It's just one of those things where when you're watching it and you're like, one of my favorite shows of the last five years is back. I can't wait.

I'm still waiting to see the star in the sky that's like this is where this show is going. But maybe that's like, it's not really going. That's a basic concept of it. It's sort of, I think it's very revealing when you think about what more, how much further did these characters have to go to reach a place of peace or openness to the next part of their lives?

And thus far through seven, Bear needed it. And that was the first two episodes of the season. Since now he's just watching recipe content creators on TikTok and chopping up. I wonder if you were going to connect with that moment. I don't think that TikTok is a really, useful instruction. No, I'm sure it's serious. You like recipes.

But they, when they're just like, here's a pepper and now the pepper is perfectly chopped in the next cut, I'm like, you don't understand my struggle. You also like recipes that start with three to four paragraphs about the cook's backstory in like their own emotional journey towards finding peppers. Like that's the type, that's your generation's. Did you see that relationship with recipes?

You know, like that New Yorker piece. I think it was, was it New Yorker or the New Yorker? or the New York Times magazine where it's like people in prison playing Dungeons and Dragons and it opens with like the like when I was in prison

for murder I was playing D&D it's not funny but somebody was like every recipe blog ever and it's the first pair of the first that's true

and it's like has nothing to do with making like a you know a stew no when I was in prison for murder I played Dungeons and Dragons yeah and that's how I arrived at making avocado toast

Also, three eggs. But other than those bear episodes, there was the cheese episode, which moved him forward a little bit. Somebody had a tweet about that, by the way. I can't remember if I said that. That wasn't my joke. Somebody fired off a tweet. I'm glad people are still doing that, the year of Our Lord 23. But Laura Dannen and, you know, the Willie Jack thing seems to be happening in the background.

Hopefully there's an episode of her and Fixco and her becoming a medicine woman is forthcoming. But everybody seems okay, which is, I guess, I don't know, we keep sort of debate. the same points because I think we're curious about where Sterling is going to take us in these last three episodes. There are only three left. It's weird. This level of contentment would suit maybe a show that was going to run five more years, right? Yeah, I mean, I find that I'm, I, while watching, I'm always like, this is nice and I like this, or this is thought-provoking and I like this, or moving and I like this. And then in retrospect,

after the episode's over and I think about some of the, like, there's a moment in this previous, in this last episode, where you can feel how they're essentially shooting and playing the scene

when Rita comes in and bears making her dinner. It's the version of reservation dogs where the show is about Rita. Like they basically shoot Bear. Oh, yeah. Like she's, like he's Rita.

Like he's a little, bit more of a supporting character, a little bit more of somebody who's there to be like, how is your day and stuff like that? And they've done that throughout this series. And I really liked that, you know what I mean? But that's actually something that occurs to me somewhat after the fact of watching, you know, and it's in that way, I think it's more of a remitative season, you know? And I think that that's, that's great. I'm fascinated to know what he's going to do with the last three episodes. Can I, before we get off today, can I, can I just take your temperature on the trailer? Yeah, you can. I want to ask you about a,

trailer. I think the movie did just premiere. I don't know if it was in Venice or Tell Your Ride. Yes. It played at Tell Your Ride. This is a movie called The Bike Riders. It's the film aside from Ferrari that I am most looking forward to because I'm a huge Jeff Nichols fan. So Jeff Nichols is a really, really good filmmaker. It made Midnight Special, which I liked a lot. Yeah. Mud, shotgun stories, take shelter, like, awesome director. I have to be honest with you. There's a version of this where I'm... I just want to be open.

Because a friend sent me this trailer is like, look how good this looks, and I have to be honest with you. Maybe this is just strike fatigue. Maybe it's just silly season. But I thought it was a parody. I thought it was a Saturday Night Live skit, genuinely.

Because you watch this trailer, and the great Tom Hardy is doing a Marlon Brando imitation. the, I have no idea if he's great. Austin Butler is doing a James Dean imitation. And then I thought they did the Irishman technology on Tina Faye to make the third lead in the movie. Jody Comer. One of our great actresses is in this,

and I dare you watch this trailer and tell me it's not Tina Faye. I don't think you should watch trailers anymore. That's my takeaway. I think this is fair. This movie might be great. Because you watched the Barbie trailer and you were like, Greta Gerwig's career is effectively dead.

I said that. Yes. I watched the Ferrari trailer and you were like, you were like doing Super Mario voices and being like, you like that shit? You like little cars? I didn't see that. And now you're watching the bike rider trailer. This trailer is insane. I don't think that they made the best musical cue choice.

Right. It's Stones. And I think it is, without having seen the film, I think being thrown into the deep end with Jody Comer's accent, work is interesting. Here's why I got nervous. First of all, the cast of this movie is insane. It goes so deep because Jeff Nichols, regular Michael Shannon is in it. Mike Faced is in it.

I saw Mike Face naked. You saw him naked recently? Yeah, on stage in London, he gets naked and Brokeback Mountain. He was in it with Lucas Hedges. I didn't know you saw that. Why do you talk about your theater adventures on this podcast? I did tell you. I also, yeah, go ahead.

You told me on the podcast? I did. Damon Harriman, our guy Boyd-Holbrook is in it. Yeah. great stuff. I just... Only seen one of those guys naked, though, in real life.

So far. So far. Why you gotta... The next few years of your life, you're going to be beautiful. You're going to be writing the Great American novel. People will be calling me the way Barry Geegan called the top boy guys.

I feel like, I just want to be naked for you. I'm just down to get out of party. You just sort of like take off another of the checklist. Yeah. What a calling. You found your way. stumbled into. It just strikes me as one of those things where, because Jody Comer in English, right?

Austin Butler, Australian. Are you doing the, like, Ben Select thing where you just, like, name a bunch of players? I'm doing the thing where I'm like, my vibe from this trailer is nobody told them to dial it back. They are all acting like they've seen. So, let me be wrong. Let me just tell you. Okay. So this podcast.

But you don't have to be wrong publicly. You could be like, this is a cool trailer. I can't wait to see the movie. Before we started, I was saying that's not something. thing I want to talk about on the podcast thing to be redacted. And Chris was like, everything is content, brother. No, I didn't say it like that.

I was joking. Yeah. No, because I want to, I want to walk back to me wrong. Because maybe this podcast is really for the marketing professionals. I'm trying to save you from yourself in the same way that you think that perhaps that moment, that Madeline moment with a Twix and an apple has sent me on this path that led me to not watching drops of God. This is when we switch roles.

This is why we keep people guessing because this is when you're highbrow, you're like, you know what, like just let the content be, like let the art come to you. And I'm like Joe Popcorn with a limited amount of time here. And this trailer looks dumb a. Literally, this looks real dumb. I'm like, everyone's like, hey, let's all pretend to be in a movie that's already been made 20 times. What are we doing? Why do they make this movie?

I think it looks cool. Why? Because I like cool guys on motorcycles. I don't know the fuck you need for me. You like them because there's a chance they'll get naked. That's, let's finally unite the streams here and be honest. right Kai did you watch this trailer

will you watch it she says yes I was just really confused by this I'm glad we saved this for the end of the pot clearly this is a passion project but what she's just like I don't know what to do about Benny he's always stabbing people on his on his bike

and Tom Hardy's like you want to be a bike rider I think there's a chance there's a chance that that scene could be like one scene in the whole movie I don't know that this movie is about Jody Comer I think maybe that's a framing device You know, it's like she's telling Mike Faced a journalist about these guys. These bike riders. Yeah.

It just seems relevant, you know? It just seems like really, in the way like all good period pieces are reflections of our current era. Sometimes people today just want to ride bikes, too. What's the last trailer you saw that you were like, God damn, that's awesome? The killer. Oh, yeah. But then it came out of Venice. Everyone was like, this isn't good.

Did you see the article that's like the music for the killer is just Smith songs? Yes. What a fucking gangster. Are you kidding me? Actually, you want to know another trailer? This is really going to bring it home for us. How dare you? I saw that they made a trailer for that.

They're not supposed to, right? Miyazaki. Miyazaki, they're not supposed to do that. Well, in Japan, they didn't do it for our trailer-obsessed culture. But I saw that it went up and everybody was like, that's not what he wanted. Yeah, that's right. Okay. Did you watch the trailer?

Yeah, I defied the master. Yeah. Well, here's the thing. Like, when Miyazaki content comes out, I watch it. Unlike some people on this podcast. We're just obsessed with bike riding in questionable Chicago accents. I have my interests.

Okay, well, the Miyazaki movie looks better than this one. I'm not going to die on anti-bike rider hill. I just want to take a long look at the... Is the Miyazaki movie about death? Aren't they all? I wouldn't know. Thank you for your honesty.

What a good pod today. I thought we were pretty thorough and detail-oriented, which is sometimes not my strength. No. You were really prepared. I appreciate that. that. Thanks to Kaii McMullen for producing us and for participating in which Bob

are you. I think we established that she's an Iger. Didn't we establish we're all igres? But you're an Iger with a Chepec rising. I think I'm like more Chepec than I'd like to admit. I think I'm aspirationally eager and probably in practice more of a Chepec. Yeah.

Although I think I'm pretty personable. Yeah. I don't think you need to because one of the details about it wasn't about him but it was about Chepex Lieutenant Kareem Daniel who needed the PR team to like was it like tell him how to talk to people. Did you also? There's also the part where like they're playing in a company softball game

and Cream Daniels fucking steamrolls Chepec at first base. But also. He's got that dog in him. Didn't like Skipper, Terran, ACL playing competitive softball? He ruptured his Achilles, yeah. Playing volleyball. I wouldn't, I couldn't survive. But you don't participate in group activities, really.

Is that true? Yeah, if we had like a ringer podcast network baseball, like softball league, would you play in it? Could I invoice for it? All right, it's been the watch. Thanks to Kai for producing. We'll be back on Monday with probably some winning time, I would imagine. Maybe some DOG, some drops of God.

Can I do some more bike rider's invitation? If I get that dog in me, that drops of God in me, will you be excited? Do you? Yeah. You got some dog in you. But do I have to watch all of it? Can I just watch like two? Yes.

Are you going to be like, no, the good one is five? No, you got to watch two. Okay. You got to watch two. All right. Will you watch 36 hours of Top Boy? I'll see what I can do. I'll see what I can do.

Talk to you guys soon.