The Watch - Is ‘Sterling Point’ the Show of the Summer? Plus, ‘Tires’ Season 3.

Episode Date: August 20, 2026

Chris and Andy talk about ‘The Night Of’ creators Richard Price and Steven Zaillian reuniting for a Netflix limited series (6:24), the ‘Sons of Anarchy’ cast teaming back up for an FX meta-thriller that takes place during a fan convention (11:28), and ‘Sterling Point’ making a late run for show of the summer (31:50). Later, they discuss ‘Tires’ Season 3 (42:40). Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel here for full episodes of The Watch and so much more! Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Producers: Kaya McMullen and Kai Grady Studio Production: Sarah Reddy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Two and five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcf walk.ca.ca. I need sports to have to clear the room. Stand up and walk now.

Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at the ringer.com and joining me in the studio here to explain the bond market. It's Andy Greenwald. Can anyone in this room explain the bond market? All I know is Scott Besson puked yesterday. You keep saying this, but I thought there was going to be like TMZ DC gotcha footage of him actually like yaking in a bucket. and like he intervened, man.

He had to come in and start buying back. Is that what you quants call it? Is that what it is? Look at my quont. Is that like, is Kevin Warsh going to puke at the next? No, I just, it's just my lingo. It's just my way of speaking.

Andy, it's great to see you on a Thursday. People say we're getting out of touch, but I don't think so. Who says that? I'd be saying, there were people who are like, maybe they're getting up there in years. I assure you that whoever says that, is also worried about.

We are more in touch than they are. With the bond market? Well, with everything. With geese, The bomb market with Shane Gillis, whose new season of Tires debuted on Netflix, and we're going to talk about that. We have a bunch of news to get through

the watch at Spotify.com, the watchpot underscore at Instagram. And you can watch this on YouTube at the ringer dash TV channel or on Spotify, where I hope you listen to us or wherever you listen to podcasts. And a little bit of housekeeping.

Oh, good. So today, obviously, we're going to do some TV stuff, some TV news, and then Tire season three, like the first half of it. Not that this is like, you know, lost. You need to like breathlessly track the development of Valley Forge Auto. But then on Monday, we have a little bit of lanterns, a lot of furious, and then Van's going to join me for Lioness.

I was going to say, this would be a good housekeeping moment to say that we're hosting a screening next week here in Los Angeles. But I just found out it sold out. Yeah, I knew that. You knew that? Yeah, I just knew. Did you buy all the tickets? No, I'd Scott Besson do it.

I was just like, this is an incredible way. The Los Angeles three guys heard the box office being like, CR puked. He bought the whole thing. We're hosting a screening of the born identity next Wednesday for American Simetek.

Well, for those of you who listen, who have tickets, thank you. Yeah. Thank you for propping up our personal bond market. Okay, sorry. Didn't need to talk about that. Fields go up, but the interests go,

it just doesn't make sense. Let me just do a quick... Does anybody in this room understand the bond market? What are bonds? What if Kyle is like... actually. Wouldn't surprise me. It's not that I doubt her intelligence. She's just never mentioned the bond market to me. People who know the bond market don't need to mention it. Is the bond market different than the stock market? Yes. Well, and it sounds like both are markets.

Some are wet, some are dry. And can you explain to me the difference? I had one. I know you want to get into news. This is Thursday. We can let it rip. I had, didn't know what day it was. A quick thing, though, I don't know if you're following the story that was breaking to this morning or this week, that apparently there is a high-end fishing scheme where celebrities, authors, and journalists are receiving messages from prominent podcasts, or so they appear to be, saying, we'd love for you to appear on, for example, fresh, this is Terry Gross. Well, no, I mean, much like this season of lioness, the war has come home. It happened to Good Hang podcast, I was getting there.

I was getting there. Maybe Kyah can, or I don't know if legally she can speak to it or not. She's like, bond market. But anyway, you know, people who legitimately maybe could have been guests on these podcasts were receiving messages. And like some of them, you know, send in information. Some of them showed up on, like Bruce Valance showed up on a Zoom where a black box said NPR. Really? Yeah. And then waited and then was like, oh, I get it, you know.

But had he entered like his credit card information or is it just like a prank? No, he did make a donation to national public radio. Yeah. This is a hell of a grip, by the way. Can you imagine if you got one, it's like, hey, it's John Ossoff. I know you're liking what I'm putting down right now. Would you make a small donation, but it's just some dude's PayPal? Anyway, my question for you is, why not us?

Why haven't we been fished? No, why? We start offering ourselves up for this kind of... I guess I kind of wanted to just put it on the table, bring you this news, and then wonder, like, is there a potential target? I don't want to help the scammers, but also I wonder if there's a certain... mid-level celeb or thought warrior who might be susceptible to this grift

if it was just like... Yeah, if it was just like, hey man, this is CR, I know you love listening to me on podcasts. I'd love for you to join us on the watch to share your takes on... Do you think that there's a... is it a fertile ground?

How high up in Trump's cabinet do you think we could get? Who do you think would come on the pod? Stephen Chung. Oh, yeah. Easy. Yeah. You mean like actual...

Like, do you think... If I was like, hey, Scott, I just don't get it. I don't really know what's going on. Probably. I feel like Sean Duffy is very... Do you have a sec? Sean Duffy is media forward. Yes.

Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? I don't want any of those fucking guys on this podcast. No, I know. This is a sacred space. Is there anyone that you think that I... I mean, again, I'm not... Did you have Natalie on?

Um, for the clicks? No, for just to get into as a psychological portrait. Who among us hasn't... climbed into a trunk to be nearer to those that we love. Yeah. Okay. I like that you immediately went White House. I think that you have political ambitions,

both in terms of your career and maybe in terms of your career. You know what I mean? Like in terms of what you want to cover, who you want to be hobnobbing with. I think the thing about the watch is it can be anything we want it to be. Okay. You know? Yeah.

It's sort of Plato in that way. Like we can just kind of like mold it on to any kind of like experience we want to have. with it. We could be like a food and travel podcast. We could be a political podcast. We could make it a podcast about economic discovery and financial well-being. I was going to make it a resistance podcast until Alex Vindman went down in flames in Florida. And I was like, Jesus, I got to find a new grift. That's why we're covering tires today. That's right. We're just two years late for the vibe shift. Let's talk about some shit we're excited about. That's what I have this called. There was a couple of announcements this week in the world of TV that that piqued our interest.

Number one is the return of two watch goats. Yeah. I mean, accomplished screenwriters, in some cases, best-selling authors. But Richard Price and Steve Zalian are back at it again. They made one of my favorite TV shows of all time the night of. Richard Price obviously is a bit of guest on this show. As is Steve Zalian? Yeah, we had him.

And Price is the author of Clockers. and the author of Freedom Land and Samaritan, Lush Life, one of my favorite books. He's also the screenwriter behind Color of Money and Sea of Love and many other screenplays. They collaborated years ago with HBO on The Night of with Riz Ahmed and John Turo and now are reuniting to adapt a nonfiction book from 2015 called Ghetto Side.

Now Zalian hasn't done a TV project or really, I don't think any project since Ripley, which was my favorite show of the year it was released. And very high up on your list. This is based on this 2015 book by Jill Leo Vy, and this is the Log One. On a warm spring evening in South Los Angeles, a young man is shot and killed on a sidewalk,

minutes away from his home, one of thousands of black Americans murdered that year. His assailant runs down the street, jumps into an SUV, and vanishes, hoping to join the scores of killers in American cities who are never arrested for their crimes. but as soon as the case is assigned to Detective John Skaggs, the odds shift.

And you say what? Skag season. Yeah. So I think the one thing that I don't know if you mentioned in your beautiful preamble is that this is going to be for Netflix. This is for Netflix. Thank you. I think it's interesting primarily because this has HBO all over it because of Price's long

association with the network. He did the... Wrote on the Wire. Yes, but also what was the show that we liked, that we almost... It's like been memory hold because of COVID with Ben Mendelsohn. Outsider.

Yes. And it just seems like since the... Yes, and it seems like since the headlines were like, night of reunion, not sequel, but spiritual sequel in the sense of these guys working together in a crime story, pulled from the headlines, or in this case pulled from a nonfiction book,

that would feel like a natural home for it. And I find it interesting. The Netflix swooped in, and just got it. You can look at this a number of ways. You can look at it as Netflix reinforcing what we talked about last week, about how this is true crime adjacent. So it kind of fits in with some of their programming.

You can look at it as they were very up. Netflix was very opportunistic in snapping up Zalien's Ripley from Showtime, where it was floundering. And I think they turned it into, again, we loved it. It's a masterpiece. I think it did well enough for them because it got Emmy consideration. So that could be a sign of them once again, just being like smart movers when the market shifts.

Too bad because I mean, the dream in life would be for them to continue to make stuff in the Ripley verse. And I think Andrew Scott is probably a little old to keep playing Ripley. But that being said, like some of the stuff that happens at the end of the first season of Ripley or that season of Ripley would suggest that maybe they had designs on. When we talked to Zalienabelle, I mean, I think the desire was to do more of them. But I think the lift may have just been too hard because it was so exacting and such a demanding and involved and ultimately used. production. Yeah. The third piece that I would just look to is I would windhorst fingers anytime Netflix

swoops in and tries to drink HBO's milkshake only because we've talked about it before, but there is a division within Netflix led by former HBO executive Nora Skinner who they're I think actively trying to recreate some of the good prestigious creative vibes. And develop literary projects. Yeah. So that all makes sense. But the main takeaway is this is awesome for us. We'll have a show to make next year.

I wonder if Zalian's going to direct all of it like he did with Ripley. And I also wonder if Robert Ellswitt, who shot Ripley, Bob, would maybe be available to shoot this. Hope they shoot it in Los Angeles, obviously. That would be essential, I think, if you're going to make a show about L.A. crime to shoot it here. Has there been any, like, development? Have you heard anything about any of the Jordan Harper-Noars getting developed for TV or for?

I might understand, no, but I think, well, I guess my understanding of it is that Jordan, who wrote, everybody knows, a book we love two years ago and his new book, Violent Masterpiece, I just finished this year, because he is also a screenwriter and has worked on TV. And, you know, this came up during the rewatchables, that he's actually the guy who was writing and potentially would have show run in series, the LA Confidential TV series from years ago. My understanding is that he wants to make these himself as well he should. but I don't know where they stand. Speaking of seizing the means of production. You're good at this.

Charlie Hunnam. Yes, fascinating. Made his name as the lead of Sons of Anarchy and FX, long-running FX show. You don't think he made his name on Undeclared? I would say that Sons of Anarchy was a bigger deal than Undeclared, but I thought he was delightful on Undeclared.

Thank you. Thank you for seeing me. And I also find him delightful in the gentleman, the movie. Oh, yeah. Right. But he's best known for Sons of Anarchy. And funnily enough, he is reuniting the cast of Sons of Anarchy, or most of it, for a show called Legends, which will also be on FX, which was Sons of Anarchy's home for a long time. This is not the Steve Coogan show that we covered briefly.

No. And I believe that this is, so the logline is that the original cast of Sons of Anarchy reunite at a convention, a fan convention, and something goes off the rails. And they are put in peril, I imagine. The way I'm reading this is that this is a, it has real single camera action comedy written over, like maybe docudrama style. Maybe not, I don't know,

but like Hunnam apparently is like very creatively involved in this. Is he the writer of this? I believe this is his project. This is his project. It got Kurt Sutter's blessing. He is the creator of Sons of Anarchy, a longtime show runner of that show, and reunites many of the,

members, Katie Seagall, Ron Perlman, Theo Rossi, etc. So Hundum developed it with Jonathan Groff, who was an incredibly accomplished and very, very funny and talented, writer, showrunner, he was... He worked on English teacher? He did not work on English teacher, but he worked on... Oh, my God, happy endings. Oh, right.

For many years. And Blackish and came up with Conan O'Brien. And so there is an established comedy mind here. Okay. for a show that I think will probably be more than comedy, but the main comp here is that they're GalaxyQuesting themselves. Yes. Right?

Have you guys done that on rewatchables? No. No. Do you like Galaxy Quest? Love Galaxy Quest. I don't know that I've ever seen it. Really? Yeah, but I'm just being completely honest between these two walls.

Nobody listens. It's just us. Tell me your secrets. But the premise of Galaxy Quest is... A Star Trek-like cast forced to continue to relive, you know, a relatively embarrassing or low creative moment in their lives at fan conventions

are swept up when a actual alien who has been watching their television show brings them aboard the ship to save their galaxy because he thinks the show is real. And it's a top, top tier

Sigourney Weaver, Alan Rickman, Tony Shaloobe. Honestly, maybe the best Tim Allen performance, too. There's two different sort of tracks of conversation here to have. Obviously one would be...

I'm going to do a one-man Galaxy Quest rewatchables. Which camera's on? This is going to be good. You would be the only person to ever do that other than Bill. Do a one-man re-watchables? Has he done a one-man rewatchables? Cast away. He did it solo with a ball?

Yeah. God, he's unbelievable. He's the goat. He's the goat. We should talk about how I've known him now for 15 years, and I have never seen him laugh harder than when you were suggesting that the Sixers would wear black armbands for an entire season

after he's had you assassinated for getting too big for your britches. that was a very sweet moment because not only were you very, very funny as always, but he was really, he was gone. Yeah, the thing that's not in the clip itself is that Bill and Sean were more delighted by the idea

of other people who didn't know me tweeting their memories of me. They would spend clearly more time screenshoting and sending each other the screenshots than they would actually mourning me. Can you imagine what Carrie Russell would put on blue sky?

About the one time she saw you. You know what? I'm not trying to violate Carrie Russell's privacy man. Yeah. Yeah. You saw her recently. In public, yeah.

Yeah. And you didn't speak? No, I didn't. But you thought maybe? I think that the way to put celebrities at ease. I'm excited about this. In spaces where, so Carrie Russell, this is, we can keep this, I don't care, maybe.

Me and Carrie Russell are in a store together, right? Okay. All right? It's just us. It's just a normal store. It's a normal store. It's fine. It's where normal men shop.

Yeah, by themselves. And Carrie Russell is there shopping and I am shopping. And my vibe to Carrie Russell, but also to just celebrities in general. So if you see me on the street, know that this is how I treat you. You're speaking to the celebrities now? Okay. Natalie Hart, whoever is watching. Whoever is watching.

I am like, basically, I try to be like, here's my, here's my cycle. logical game. You're not the famous one. You know? This is also... But it's only a game. It's not like I think that. But I'm like, if I'm like, you know, like here I am, I'm shopping, whatever, it's not quite... I don't know who you are.

No. Because I'm not going to go up to Carrie Russell and be like, is this cool? Should I buy this? But I'm not going to be like, oh my God, it's Gary Russell. No. God, text, text, text, sex, sex, sex, no, no. First of all, it's not like a game. It's literally the game, the dating manual written by Neil Strauss and the man known as Mystery. Yeah.

You are negging celebrities. to get them to be more interested in you. Nobody's medding anybody. You don't think... I'm just not going like surreptitiously like taking pictures. No, so we live in City of Angels. There's stars everywhere. Yeah.

And frankly, they often are just like us. When I see them or encounter them, I don't do anything at all. In fact, I just power down like C-3PO in Star Wars when he's not needed for a while. I just sort of slump over until the room is clear. That's going to be when you and Kaya talk about Sterling Point. gets it a couple plays out. What I'm trying to push on is the idea that you are bringing in a second energy.

Like you are now taking on a different personality. I don't really do this. It's just like in your head to talk yourself out of freaking out about being in the room with Kerry Russell or whoever. Right. You and McGregor, it doesn't matter. Yeah. You have to almost trick yourself into being like, that person doesn't. they're probably thinking

that's Chris Ryan that's Andy Greenwald you know what I mean they're not thinking that they're probably like I heard that guy got killed because LeBron signed with the Sixers

and here he is up and about this is good this is great what other TV shows would you like to see Galaxy Quested thank you for that question I think there's a lot well first of

let me just say that when we did back in the Grantland days Sons of Anarchy I think was the number one show that I would be asked about like when we would do mailbags or I would do a column of questions, that I, I mean the show no ill will when I say I never saw a frame of it, because that was the show

that it was like well into its run when I started my watch, literally, and then I just didn't catch up. So I have no relationship with that show. That is a show that I am. I don't know how to describe this because I don't feel like maybe I'm wrong, but I don't know that this is a common way to watch TV anymore. That was a show I was like completely aware of, but can't remember. being like, it's Wednesday, it's time to watch Sons of Anarchy. Right. But I was like, ah, yes, Sam Crow is now run afoul of a rival bike gang. Good for you.

There was like a baby for a while that was in distress. And it was like, Maggie Siffing. No, but like it got kidnapped a bunch, if I think. Once is too many times. I thought you were going to say. It's all about ball security. If it's running back fumbles once. Are you suggesting that when, before you leave the hospital,

they should do some of those ball security drills with the assistant coaches have like long boom mics Not with a real baby, but with like a fake baby. Okay. Yeah. So I would describe myself as like conversant in Sons of Anarchy while not. I think that's, I think you're selling yourself short. That's more than conversant. The example of watching TV that I thought you were going to use

was something that I fear is also out of fashion these days. But for example, I have never knowingly or intentionally sat down and watched an episode of the Fox procedural bones, which I believe ran for 27 years. Yeah. I'm estimating. However, every time. I went to the dentist or got my oil changed in a car. Now I drive an electric, so it's moot.

But you know what I mean. So tires must have been very foreign to you. No, I thought it was quaint. All those oil changes going on a tire. A period piece. A period piece. None of these people could be catfished by fresh air and Terry Gross. I'll tell you that much.

I would watch, Bones would be on. Yeah. So I thought, but I couldn't tell you the name of the character. I think it's like Emily Bones. It's Emily Bones. Yeah. Right. It is Dr. Bones, isn't it?

Or is she just Bones because she's a medical examiner. Yeah, I think it was Elizabeth Bones. Bones, the Bone Zone is Bones and Rosolian Isles. I have seen 200 episodes of the last 10 minutes of those episodes because they would be on before basketball on TNT. Oh, what about Law and Order reruns, no? Not as much on TNT as you would think. Yeah, that was more of a TBS or USA thing.

It's a USA thing because of... But when you tune in for the first of a doubleheader on a Wednesday on TNT with Chuck and Kenny... You do the work. Rizzolian Isles right there. All of this to say, this sounds pretty great and much more interesting, I think, to me, than like a retread of the show that, to be frank, I never watched. So I think it's kind of exciting and it's a fun idea and the cast is clearly into it. And I do think that there is potentially good precedent here. I mean, you never want something to be super navel-gazing of just like celebrities.

hanging out and enjoying how funny they are together. But until Chris walks into the room. What if the premise was the cast of Sons of Anarchy at a convention and then you walk into the convention? I was like, you guys all meeting up? You guys here to see me? Yeah. I'll be signing you.

That's not what I mean. I just mean that I try in my head to be like, that's just a normal person. That's a different way of saying it. Even if I'm like, you're the diplomat. I'm just, you're just chilling. You're shopping. You saw I'm late to Chanel and you're like,

wait shit, that's bones. Forget it. She's just like, she's just made of bones like the rest of us. I think the idea of a show like this is an interesting and potentially promising precedent instead of just doing a reunion of the show. Yeah.

Like, did we need that last season of Frazier that they tried to reboot? I honestly, from what I know about Sons of Anarchy from like reading interviews with cast members and stuff like that, I do know that the bonds made on that show were quite deep and quite passionate. And, you know, that there was like a lot of testosterone on that set. I think if you can play with that, if you can discuss that, it'll be worthwhile.

More than even Galaxy Quest, it is interesting to see FX dig in the crates a little bit. Oh, of their own IP. network that, you know, has been, they've kind of fallen under the Disney umbrella broadly, but more than that, like, you know, their work is available on Hulu and Disney Plus, and they have a linear, at least a cable presence, but not one that I think people think of them for.

Anymore, yeah. And I was just interested to see that, like, I wonder if this thing would make people, the folks who worked on the shield, or the folks, you know, they've done some justified stuff, but is there other stuff to do here? Well, what are also, though, the cast, ensembles that have, like, the highest cue rating and approval rating. And your friends, who's nothing to you, Carrie Russell and Matthew Reese, for example, like, the, I feel like the interview that they did for the variety cover story probably had more views than Widows Bay did on Apple TV, on Apple TV. You know what I mean?

I think people love them together. They're delightful. So a show with them doing something as themselves would probably be more entertaining and honestly creatively fruitful than the Americans, but this time in Russia 20 years later. Like, I don't...

Hold on now. Let me just type that down. Do you know what I mean? But there are other castes where they just have famously have an interesting rapport that it might be worth seeing them try to bounce off of who they were, whether it's like Parks and Rec,

because, you know, Kaya's overseen some of the... these mini reunions on Good Hang, and these guys love each other, and they have an interesting history, and some of them are in different places now with their lives and careers. Mad Men, like Hamm and Slattery, I know we're just in that movie that I didn't see. Gail Do you see it? No. But, like, they're fun. But I think the ultimate example, correct me if I'm wrong here, I think the ultimate example

of a show that would benefit from getting Galaxy Quested would be the good wife. Okay, why? Now, I want to be clear, I never watched it. I thought Christine Bransky was great. in it. Sure. You never watched an episode of the Good Wife?

No, we're being honest here just between the two of us. You never watched Galaxy Quest. I never watched The Good Wife. Did you ever watch The Good Fight? No, because I felt like I wouldn't get the jokes. You know? But isn't that the show

where Juliana Margulies and Archie Punjabi allegedly fell out so intensely. So it's so funny you mentioned this. That they never appeared on screen together again. So I'm suggesting a Galaxy Quest type reboot where the actors have to investigate what happened. I've been dying. to ask you about this for like 12 hours.

Oh, okay. That was a huge controversy when it happened. Yeah. Everybody was like, wait a second. Not only like were they not sharing screen time for maybe multiple seasons before that last, that episode? I don't remember. They were always on the phone. They, like, these are two people who would, every other character finds a reason to, like, go meet this other character for coffee.

Right. But the Juliana Margulies and Archie Punjabi character would only talk on the phone when they were talking. since then one thing that drives me crazy when watching TV is when I feel like it looks as if the two characters

are not in the same setting like that they have shot their coverage like on different days there's no establishing shot no two shot and this was my big thing

with the morning show which is what you know you watch the morning show you know I understand that De Niro Puccino heat like you only want Aniston and face it off ever so often.

But they have a lot to do with each other. And I did feel like there were some scenes where I was like, who is Marion Cotillard talking to? It's like a shot of her talking. And then it would be like the person's reaction felt almost incongruous to what was being talked about. And there would be a lot like a complete absence of master shots where you would be like, oh, these two people are in the room together.

I was watching, it was fucking on Instagram yesterday. And like some sag panel was coming up or something. And Paul Downs was talking about how... Paul Downs, the co-creator and co-star of hacks. Was talking about how that is like now a production tool, which is to digitally, like, basically take... Hannah Einbinder's take of this take of one of her coverage. Yeah.

I know, I understand, like, it's like, yes, you can do, like, different... That's how you cut shows. Yeah. But, like, basically digitally replacing or digitally manipulating the way those scenes are, or shot, even taking the actual, I don't know if I'm explaining it right. Do you know what I'm talking about?

Kai, can we do this for podcasts, like not be in the same room? Just asking for the future. Well, to be, like, yes, they mix and match coverage. Yeah, I understand editing, but I mean, like, I think he was referring to a more significant... It's possible. I mean, it's certainly technically possible.

And I think the level of... I think the discourse around all movies and all television shows must be purely analog or we have outsourced ourselves to the demon known as Claude. Like, I think there is a middle ground, some of which is also worrying. But I think that that middle ground has, that's where we already exist in terms of what's possible and what you can mix and match and what you can slightly tweak. I mean, you can manufacture. I read a story about this too. I mean, you can manufacture facial expressions on actors, which SAG is quite concerned about. I was talking to an indie filmmaker the other week, and I was like, I was like, well, they were talking to me about like their post-production schedule that they were doing, but they were also working on in their film.

And they were like, oh, the VFX of this movie were, you know, I had to basically approve, but I couldn't be there for it. I was like, VFX. And they're like, yeah, VFX. Everything. And it wasn't, it wasn't a movie where you'd be like, obviously they've used a bunch of VFX in this. Yeah. I think that's further along than anyone realizes. But in terms of something like the morning show.

again, based on no actual knowledge of it, my assumption with a show like that has always been the production challenges of juggling not just a massive cast, but an incredibly top-heavy cast of like pretty big actors used to doing their own things demands a, let's say, creative blocking structure where actors might not be available at the same time. Right.

I mean, and I think that as production, as TV production, in my day, no, historically, a TV production would be, you are blocked out for the four months that the show is shooting its season and you are available and you can't. And you might work Thursday and you might work Tuesday. Or you might not work again until July, but you can't cut your hair and you can't shave or whatever.

You have to have continuity. And now it's a lot more like, we've got this person. We're going to shoot them out in nine days, right? It's more that we have to because, yes, because or we lose them. And also just the nature of television production is like a show that I've been working on,

you know, shoots for months and months and months longer than many movies do. And then the gymnastics of just getting people who are available onto the show or it's just outrageous. Yeah. And I think you can sometimes see the seams in good ways and bad on different shows where you're like, it feels like they had to shoot this person out. And they had like, to make that work, they were like, we're going to shoot a lot of your

stuff on this set and then a lot of your stuff on this set and you're all good. I actually, I will say not to brag, but I did have to have the uncomfortable conversation with someone with an actor once that he couldn't shave his mustache. for another role. Is it me? Yes. It was a continuity week to week. Would you want a Galaxy Quest any show?

Did anything come to mind? We can circle back. No, I mean, I'm kind of a romantic. I don't really like the... I don't really like... It's not like I want to know, like, I don't want Lost to be shattered with like a convention with the cast of Lost.

You know what I mean? Or, you know, find out that the... of Deadwood are all really like normal guys, you know, like. Just just chill bros talking about N-A-Bers. I want to have the suspension of disbelief from like, no, it's elsewhere. It is the, I mean, I don't know how many Deadwood conventions there are because I haven't heard of you going to any, so I'm assuming there are none. But that, that lifestyle is interesting.

I just saw. I think there are conventions where like Titus Wellever will go and be like, I sign autographs and some people ask for like Bosch. Bosch. And some people ask for. Bosch legacy. And some people ask. for Deadwood and the two parts I played on Deadwood.

But he's like mostly Bosch. Yeah. I saw that Sherilyn Fen was beefing with the organizers of a like a David Lynch slash Twin Peaks convention about like not showing up but basically being like I didn't want to appear there because some of the actors barely knew David and didn't work with him and now they're all like skitching on his legacy. Didn't name names. She was a she was appearing at a Twin Peaks season two screening that was happening in Portland

when I was there. Did you big time her? Were you like, I bet she's wondering who I am and who I played on Twin Peaks season two? Yeah. It's me, the log lady. Two and five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation walk.

Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcf walk.ca.ca. A couple of the things. I just wanted to mention that Sterling Point probably unremarked upon other than our first initial comments on the show

has kind of become the show of the summer in some districts. Yeah. In Kai's district and my house's district where I have, I would say sons of anarchy style passively participated in the show.

Okay, meaning it's been airing. I know what happens. In the waiting room of your home. I can tell when there's a sex scene. How? There's very specific music that these YA shows use during sex scenes. That I can only describe as like Hollister safe trap music or something. You know what I mean?

Sure. And so I can always hear like, oh, like it seems like all the dialogue is dropped out except for the weekend. And then you come running with your binocular. killers. Is there... Kool-Aid man the room? Is the reverse also true? Meaning, when Phoebe is in the other room and she hears system of a down, she knows that the lionesses are in the tub together again?

They don't do that. First of all, that's... First of all, that's disrespectful. They'll play SOAD. Okay. Sorry. Second of all, those are two women who've given a lot to this nation, you know? And frankly, they're a little dirty.

Right? So they're considering. more than just their own needs. And right when they're about to consummate their relationship to get called back to duty. No. Yeah. Who called them? The president.

The president was like, ladies, pick up the soap. Your country needs you. Sterling Point has been renewed. You want out of that. You just fucking. I'm waiting for Van. I don't want to use all my good material on you. Fair, fair.

Can we edit Van into this? Yeah, let's talk. Sterling Point for a second. Megan Parks, Y.A. series set in a lake in a, you know, very scenic Canada. An intoxicating summer show,

I will say. And, um, this is now a couple of summers in a, I mean, like, obviously summer I turn pretty. I'm wearing my cousin's beach t-shirt today.

I thought you were hiding it. Well, I wore it because I wanted to make this point, which is like, we're now in like fully, like Amazon puts a, a summer, teen post high school

high school show on and it seems to run shit. Yes. The expression on my 13 year old's face when I told her that the Outer Banks S5 screeners had dropped in our Netflix queue was memorable. Does she know about the Outer Banks prequel

that's coming that will... Thank you for asking this. Go to the origins of the social divides of this town? It's going to actually finally explain class and how it functions in America. I texted her that information yesterday when she was at a friend's house. Stony silence. Stony, not even dots.

That's modern parenthood. I guess she'll have to learn about class the old-fashioned way. From Scott Bezhen. From Scott Bezhen. I don't really have a ton to say. I found the, Kaya, please feel free to jump on Mike here. Because, Kaya, what was your, the whole season dropped, right, on Amazon? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And Kyya, where are you? And how quickly did you? I think I'm like four, four, five episodes in. They're like 45 minutes. And I have eight episodes, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I think I'm like the halfway mark.

There's a lot of confusing storylines about parentage in this show. Like there's a little bit of like you could sometimes tell when these series start or series start. And they're like, let's throw five plots out here. And let's see what three we want to continue in the second season. but there's like an inheritance there's a bunch of confusing like is this my half sister or like actually my sister or what

because the main character played by Ella Ella Rubin is that right something like that yeah I think so no way of us finding out on air I'm trying to be less I'm trying to be more present I appreciate that

she is a Annie she's from she's going into a senior of high school she has a twin brother they are adopted yeah and motherless the mother passed away their adopted mother, or so they think.

And they're living a life of antiseptic luxury in a white box in New York. This was my biggest bump on the show that no one had ever set foot in until they showed up with set deck and a bowl full of pairs. This really wasn't the problem for me. This was a huge problem for me.

My biggest problem is when you're like, teenagers live in this house. Would you like a pair? Just come on. Scuff up the floors a little bit. and then she finds out maybe there's a mystery of her lineage and her grandfather has left her an island and she flies 45 minutes to Toronto

and that's the first episode in a lifetime of adventure yeah and she meets a lot of characters out there but your point she doesn't know who's related to her that's the question like who her no she's inherited this island but when she goes around asking people about her grandfather there's a lot of like well I knew him

you know like there's a lot of like he seems to And there's just a lot of stuff about her mom. Look, it's also a love triangle. And there's Rory and what's the other guy's name? The hot guy or flies? Ellis. Ellis. Rory and Ellis.

Do you know what it sounds like this show needs to sort of sort things out? Mr. Sinister. Because his whole thing is genetics and who's related to who? So do you know what I mean? Like Nathaniel Milbury from neighboring Ontario has arrived. Trying to build the perfect yuppie. Yes. Plenty of pairs.

But from what I watched, I found it very entertaining. Yeah, I had a different experience with it, which is, I was like, I'm excited to watch this with my 13-year-old because she likes these Amazon shows. We didn't, we basically made it mostly to the end of the first episode. It didn't click with her yet. My guess is that she will then discover, like, it's maybe more, we'll be more of a solo journey later. Okay. But the really positive thing about it was we immediately launched into the O.C. Now, I don't know if you, like, so this is Megan Park's show.

she made that film mild-ass a year two ago. And I thought, and she's got another feature coming and I thought a bunch of the behind-the-scenes stuff I saw from Sterling Point. I really dig how she works,

which I wonder is not dissimilar from the way Josh Schwartz worked, which is who you're going to mention in a second, where she seems to very much bring the actors playing these younger people into the process so that the dialogue sounds realistic, that the blocking feels real, that the, everybody, I think they're

trying to make it feel as sort of like organic as possible. So this show was shepherded by executive produced by Josh and his longtime producing partner, Stephanie Savage. They've both been on the pot a bunch. And it was really fun to use engaging briefly with that show, maybe to return to launch into the OC, which my daughter had never seen. And I had not checked out in 20 years. And it really holds up.

It was really fun. Now, how long does the OC hold water for, like seasons-wise? Canonically or in a rewatch? Because... Canonically. I think canonically, it began to... I mean, they made something like 26 episodes their first year. I know, yeah.

It's outrageous. It's, you know, that is approaching three plus seasons of Sterling Point in a very brief period of time that they made those episodes. As someone who was... I mean, I first met Josh writing about the second season of that show for GQ, and it was in a bit of a lull, I would say, creatively. And then from what I remember, it was... rebounded closer to the end when, when, when, um, future terminalist star Chris Pratt joined in his first role. Right. And, uh, Summer went to Brown, you know, so then I could finally, like, kind of really feel seen on the show. And, um, it's important to you. It's important to me.

Representation matters, Chris. Um, I mean, it was good. I mean, at that time, you remember, putting brown people on a Fox show was rare. So it was good. Did you, uh, no, so I think, I think canonically, but again, it's really interesting watching this. This is something we always fall back on, but I do, I remain intrigued by it, that young people watch everything, no matter what era it's from, as if it was summer I turned pretty. So, for example, the other day, she's like, oh, my friends are really into modern family. I guess I better start at episode one. Yeah. Like it is a, and I was like, you don't have to, have to. Season one's quite good. Season one is great. She was laughing it up. But, but my point being, the consumption of the consumption of the- You don't have to watch this thing as if it's

like, you know, I missed an episode of True Detective. Now I don't understand the mystery. That said, in the O.C., when Carcosa emerged from a Hillmouth in Newport Beach was a really weird dip. No, but I also think that time can be kinder to the growing pains of a very intense production period in the sense that if you like the O.C, you're going to like all 56 episodes one way or another, maybe more, maybe some more, maybe some less. But you are not waiting for it and you don't have that same expectation disappointment roller coaster is what I'm perceiving as she's plowing through the show. I think it would be a fun project for us one of these days to pick not at random but a season of TV or show that we liked.

What is the experience of watching 22 episodes of this? Like to just look at like how the storytelling structures have changed, how the mechanics change, how does the show feel now? But just like more from a nuts and bolts perspective, rather than like, oh, does Miami Vice season two hold up? The degree to which, I mean, plot was everything. Plot was like spice on Iraqis, basically, in the classic TV days. We watched the first, I think, two or three episodes together.

And then by the time we were sitting back down on the couch, she was on episode like 15. Is she watching them at faster speeds? No, but she was watching them. Like when the TV goes off, I think then it goes on the phone. And then she's just still grinding them. But not even 15. By like episode eight or nine, it's like Luke, who I last saw punching Ryan, you know, with his pukeshel necklace being like, welcome to the O.C.

Bitch is now sleeping with Marissa's mother, dealing with a fallout of his father being gay and like friends with Ryan. And then Jimmy is now opening a restaurant with Sandy and also sleeping with Caitlin's sister who they discover as a. stripper at an L.A. party that they're invited to when Colin Hanks, playing a lightly metafictional version of Seth Cohen, invites them to. Dude, it's just November. Do you know what I mean? Like, that's how fast they had to service this based. Let's talk about another show that I think has legs to be long running. It's already in its third season. It's on Netflix, and it's tires.

Okay. It is Shane Gillis and John McKeever's sitcom set at a tire shop in Valley Forge, Pennsylvania, a place. You and I've been done many field trips. Yeah, field trips. I don't know that I've ever spent a lot of time in Valley Forge, but it's very recognizable to me. This is a show that I think had like a fine first season, an excellent second season and a very, very so far, so good, like on same level third season. Here's what I like about it.

Okay. There is no reason for Shangulous to make this show. It's not 1995. anymore. Stand-up comedians don't need sitcoms to be their platforms. Shane Gillis can sell out the link, so he's good.

I think he's got more money than he probably knows what to do with. And there's no reason for him to do this show and there's no reason for this show to be this good or to look this good or to feel this like lived in. And it's just fucking, I mean, aside from the fact that it's so fucking funny, I love

the usual, what what they're doing with this is the same that they do with great sitcoms, which is like the first season is usually very star and 1A star dependent. And then as it goes on, like you start getting more and more character beats for like the

tertiary, the secondary characters. And at least in the first few episodes of this season, my MVP is Stavi. Yep, he's amazing. Who plays a not rival, but like another tire shop manager

in the value for tire shop family who's in recovery for sex addiction and also trying to bring down Will and Shane their shop. Now, I don't want to begin our conversation by talking about factionalism, but is that okay for you to come out as pro-stavvy being very firmly in the Adam Friedland camp in the Comtown divorce? I think it's all love. Yeah. You sure? Yes. I think it was, I think it was a conscious uncoupling, not a. There's nothing to read into this because I know you're, You're deep in those streets. But Adam?

Or the streets of Cumbtown. Just the Cumbtown diaspora. The basin, if you will. That's kind of where you've set up shop. Adam might be a guest on this show pretty soon. Is that a threat? I'm just telling you. Adam and I want to talk about the Jose Marino documentary

and the Pep Guardiola documentary. And I think this might be the platform for it. I think that might be. Yeah, that's fine. What did you think of Tire season three? Well, I... Did you watch season two at all? No, we watched season one.

and I didn't, it was like six episodes, it was drop, and I thought it was fine. And I didn't feel particularly motivated to go into it. Also, back then, you know, I was really, really a resistance lib, and I thought it was really important to signal that this show wasn't for me. Yes. It's been a vibe shift, as we said at the top. Yeah. And now I'm...

You've had a lot of Amy McGrath stock that did you pan out. You're upside down. Who's your favorite lost cause that you gave money to? I don't know. friend who shall remain nameless. Yeah, I know who he is. Put some money into a billboard in Utah trying to bring down, I believe Jason Chafetz. Sure.

I'm still trying to figure out what went wrong with Sarah Gideon. Okay, that's my true detective season five. She's going against Mokowski? No, she was the one who ran against Susan Collins and all the polls. Like, Act Blue was like, we will make a difference. And I was like, well, it's New England. I'm sure they're reasonable. And Susan Collins won by like 16.

somehow Susan Collins has returned. So, no, jokes aside about that, so I didn't engage in season two. I watched season three, beginning of it, I watched the first few episodes, and instantly, like, there are just some things that are very clear, and it's what you said,

which is that if there is any orthodoxy or ideology of this show, it's of a classic workplace hang sitcom. And in a very strange way, the comp that I was feeling after watching the first few was really more like, more to industry, which is, this show has nothing in common with industry, although they do talk

about Dix a lot in both. It was really more that one of the pleasures of watching industry was watching people who were incredibly talented, who had a very strong point of view, figure out the capabilities of the vehicle they were driving. And watching the beginning of season three and seeing them discover in real time how much mileage you can get out of putting some of these characters in upside down unexpected situations, how much you can get just from a certain cutaway and a look at a certain time. Just what you can generate from mining these little runners of possibility within characters that they now feel very comfortable playing was really, really pleasurable. And then I got to the end of the first episode, the episode ends. And I would say if you are

on the fence about the show, you could probably advise people on the right episode to start with. It might be season two. I would just go out. I mean, I'd say season two. Is a market improvement on season one, which felt like almost an extended pilot. Yes. Of them, like being like, look, we can make this. Exactly. And I thought that the season premiere of season three was lower on jokes. So if you're watching it to be like, I want to see a fun.

You thought it was lower on jokes? Than two and three of season three. Until the episode ends, it says like, you know, McKeever or whatever. It says at the end directed by it. And then it cuts to a bit from 2021 in which a man working. at the Valley Forged tires is like, I think I'm going to take off next week and go see my president give a speech.

And Gillis is like, you should definitely do that. You should go. And then the other guy's like, don't go into the Capitol. And Shane's like, it's your building, man. It's your house. It's your house.

It's the people's house. And he's like, you know what? You should bring a gun. And the guy's like, yeah, it's my Second Amendment right. I'm going to go. And he's like, you might need to stay longer than a day then.

He was like, you can have the sixth off. And you might need a few weeks after that. It's really funny. Stavi's run in the first episode where he plays Dave and he's in a sex addict anonymous, not so anonymous class session. And it's just really good, man. It's just really good work. You know, he's in, we haven't talked about it, but he's also in Tony.

He's amazing in Tony. Yeah. He's a great, I'm very pro Stavi. I think he's great and everything he is he's in. But like the thing that I was really appreciating in these few episodes was that Shane Gillis is, the reason I was I really wanted to re-engage was because the thing that has become my comfort binkie in low moments is his couple of beers commercial from SNL last year, a year and a half ago, which I think is so funny, but also he's incredible in it.

Like I think he's a really good and funny performer. So I was eager to see this. And what I appreciated from these first three episodes was there is a self-awareness and kind of a sly winking about what people think of him and what he's actually doing that's woven in these episodes in a way that I kind of, that I really appreciate it. Your point about he doesn't need to do this, he definitely doesn't need to, but it does seem like a really, really successful way for him to communicate a fuller picture than if he's doing one joke in a stand-up bit that gets aggregated or if he's or if he just like any good citizen attends like a. sporting contest on the White House lawn? Who among us wouldn't do that? I just get the impression that the plus for him in this is that it used to be your stand-up, you start to develop an audience.

Somebody from the network comes and says, what if we made a show called Shane? And it was about a guy who's, you know, like a substitute teacher, but is also like trying to get his life together in Philly or whatever. And it's like shot on a soundstage in Studio City. and instead of getting noted to death and all this stuff and all this process, it seems like more and more guys like Gillis can go ahead and be like,

I'm making this show. For sure. We're like outfitting a garage. We're going to shoot all this like a location. He could have done this on YouTube. And then you can have, and then I will sell it to you for exorbitant price. Yes.

And like my guy is directing all of it. We are writing it together. Like Steve Gerben, who probably would not be the lead of a sitcom. Correct. Ordinarily, but is an extraordinary performer and character within the context of tires. Like, they made all those creative decisions and bet on themselves and it paid off. And I admire that.

I think the vibe is more, it's always sunny, not just because it's Philadelphia adjacent, but it's like, these guys were going to do this anyway. Yes. But I, but seriously, though, like the thing, Steve Gerbin as will, like the third episode and the third season, when they go to a women in business thing, and he's the happiest he's ever been. with the more traditionally, like the women and the wives, and he's wearing, he gets, they dress him up.

Yeah. And he's very happy. And I genuinely feel this as a fan of comedies and why we like to watch these characters. The fact that he was really happy was a sign that the show knows what it's doing on a deeper level. It was not just pointing and laughing at him, although Shane shows up and points and laughs at him.

Did you like the B plot of that episode where Shane and Cow are trying to revisit their old haunts and it turns out to be a family fun center? And they're like, can we get beers? I felt like there was a real patents and prime time kind of overlap possibility there in that scene. So you know I'm there for that. But he was like, this is the best, man. We're just two guys just going to rip some cigs and drink some beers and then no wife to tell us what to do. And they're like, yeah, but it would be cool to have someone who loved you.

What about when they go? But then when they're in the bathroom and they're at the urinals, and Shane talks about how he feels like he's shrinking as he grows older. And when he was a kid, he thought he was Simba and going to grow up to run the jungle. and then a small child emerges from the stall. It's funny. It's funny, but it also is, like, rhythmically, like, they just know what they're doing. And I really, it's smarter than I was going to give a credit for.

Nobody gives a shit, but it's a gauntlet, I think, thrown to, like, other comedians who are like, I'll do a sitcom, you know what I mean? Like, make something cool like this. Make something kind of... With your pals? Yeah, make something with your pals. Like, try and make it look interesting and make it feel lived in

and we'll be watching. But do you know what I mean, though? I don't mean that there's anything, like, calculated about this in terms of, like, he's not trying to, like, sanewash himself for, like, I think the vibe from the show is a pure, what I imagine. It cares at all about that. That's what I'm saying. I think it is a pure expression of he's like,

I want to make something with my friends. It is fundamentally insane that people put microphones in my face and ask me about things that I only think about when they ask me about them. And I'm going to run at that a little bit in a kind of a, teasing and winking way and disarm you with what we actually end up doing. I think that he, because he's not, it's not a successful or believable brand to be like, I don't know, I'm just a guy. But I mean, that's, although honestly, you've been fucking crushing it.

Kudos. But it's not for everyone. But I think that he, I think that it is cannier than people give him credit for it. I really enjoyed it. I don't need to have an opinion on everything, do I? No. Wait, you mean politically or tires? Or anything.

Yeah. Like when people are just like, I, fucking hate when restaurants do that? I'm like, yeah, I've never thought about that. First of all, I have text receipts that you do care about what restaurants do. Okay, restaurants is a bad example. I guess I do a lot of opinions. You have so many opinions. But I agree with you that I think that as the stunning fall of Alexander Vindman proves, we may be turning the page on an era when everyone has to be the fucking avatar. I didn't say that. You said that.

What? About the resistance. Is that what you're talking about? That's always been your thing. No, that's your bit. You're the one who brought Alexander Vidman up. I mean, you're the other one who propped up his campaign. Well, I had to look for an interesting place to put my money. You know what you care about? Electability.

Let's wrap it up there. You sure? I think it's been a cool pod. And we have some other stuff to take care of for Monday's show. Okay. I think it's been cool. Thank you to Kai, Kaya, and Sarah. And we'll be back on Monday with a full boat of lanterns, lionesses, and Furiosus.

Two and five Canadians will hear the words. you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca.ca.