The Watch - Is ‘The Idol’ Provocative or Just Flat? Plus, Padma Lakshmi to Leave ‘Top Chef,’ and the DGA Gets a Deal.

Episode Date: June 5, 2023

Chris and Andy talk about the news that Padma Lakshmi will be leaving her role as the host of ‘Top Chef’ and who they might like to replace her (1:00). Then they discuss the Directors Guild reaching a deal on a new contract with the studios and how that might affect the writers strike (17:58). Finally, they cover the first episode of the controversial new HBO show ‘The Idol’ and whether or not the pop star Abel "The Weeknd" Tesfaye is a good actor (26:08). Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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an editor at the ringer.com and joining me on the other line, I think Prince would disagree with him. It's Andy Greenwald. First of all, I hope the viewers, well, we don't have any viewers. I hope the listeners can appreciate the difference because once again, this podcast is made in the USA. Yes. Yes. Yes. It's not. I'm wearing my rolling thunder vest.

I got my scooter helmet on. We're not in the same city. but you're back within the Continental 48, which matters, I think, just for the product. Much like Gary Oldman in Bram Stoker's Dracula, I have crossed oceans of time to be on this podcast. I can't even imagine. I left London yesterday at 4 p.m. England time. Right. I was drinking a cold Sam Adams and a hotel bar in New York City at 8 p.m. New York City time.

Went to bed. Well, watch the Idol. Went to bed. We're going to be talking about the Idol. Yeah. Woke up like a shot at 2 a.m. Cool. Just ready.

Ready to rock. I was like, it's got to be like six, right? It'd been like two hours of sleep. Then woke up again at five, and that was pretty much it for your boy. And so I'm now in Philadelphia.

Does anybody really need all the updates on my mileage? I don't know. We have a lot to talk about today, but I just think for your purposes, Chris, think of me as Tedros. Okay? I'm just a guy just looking at you who can bring out your best. Sure.

Like I've listened to some of the podcasts you did in Europe and there was something, do you usually record sitting down? Because I could tell there's some stuff that you don't know how to do that I can help teach you. I just really want to get into the idol with you really quickly because, really shortly, because it's like the new, I guess like, is it the succession successor? Is it the big new show right now? because it's being released into a world where there's a ton of discourse

about the idea of the show and about what happened behind the scenes on the show. But because there were no screeners provided from what I can tell, certainly not to me, but even across the board, it almost came out into a void of sort of critical discourse, which I kind of dig this moment

where it's like nobody really knows what to say about the show, although I do get the impression that many people are saying two thumbs down from Cisco and Ebert about. I've got some things to say. Would you like to hear them? But we can talk about a bunch of different things because there's a lot in the news right now, Andy.

I think something that is near and dear to the watch's heart. And everybody knows that we love Top Chef. We've talked about it quite a bit on the show over the last couple of years. But last week, at the end of the week, we got like kind of a, was it like a Friday news dump

that this will be Padma's last season. Padma Lashmi, former watch guest. It's her last season hosting Top. First of all, I reject that. She is a watch guest. It could happen again. It doesn't mean she'll never come back, right? That's true.

Yeah, that was a bummer. I think that for people who read the tea leaves or read the Top Chef oral history that I think was in Hollywood Reporter, she had been dancing around stuff like this. There was a quote that she gave that was basically like all TV shows run for a certain amount of time. and I don't know, she was basically, had clearly already made the decision. Okay. I think it's a bummer, obviously. I think the Troika at the top of that show of Tom, Gail, and Padma are crucial to both its consistency, clearly, but also its success.

Also, she has really grown into the role. I mean, it's been quite a number of years, 17 years, and 19 seasons. But I think her comfort level on the show as a host, but then also behind the scenes as an executive producer, and encouraging the diversification of the talent pool and the types of challenges they do has really made a difference. It's going to be very, very hard to replace. I mean, broadly, it's a bummer,

although this Katie Lee Joel erasure will not stand because she was like, after 20 seasons, I was like, you weren't on the first season. You don't know about Harold. I wonder or not this is partially has something to do with probably how demanding the last couple of seasons have been, because when you think about them coming, mounting the season in Portland

pretty much mid-COVID, you know, and then doing this international season where Top Chef World All-Stars and largely set in London, but now in Paris for the final. Like, you have to imagine that that was like a very taxing couple of years driving the show forward. And then I know that she said that she wants to concentrate

more on her other TV show, Taste the Nation, which is what we kind of talked to her about when she joined the watch. I guess my first nervous, my nervous nelliness is like, is this mean the end of Top Chef? And I don't think that's the case. Yeah, I don't think so. I mean, I think it certainly will feel different. There is something that, I mean, Top Chef itself is an institution. And Padma's kind of sly, chill, greeting the chefs, setting up these somewhat, somewhat serious, somewhat ridiculous, quick fires. I mean, it's just, it's part of the experience. And that is going to feel different no matter who steps into that role.

I think the machine rolls forward. I think if anything, this season has proved what a lasting footprint the brand has made on the planet. And you made the point of what they've had to go through, but they've pulled it all off with a plum. I mean, they did a COVID season. They've done an international season now. The talent pool from which they can draw on suddenly feels so much bigger, not just in terms of potential chef testants on the mothership, but to go back to this World All-Stars thing again. and maybe base it somewhere else other than London.

I mean, obviously they won't do it back to back, but this could be something they attempt every three years, every five years. Who knows? So I think the show is in as good a position as it's ever been in. And, you know, I don't feel this way, but you could even come in and say a different host might bring a different energy, it might rejuvenate it. I don't agree with that, but I do feel like they could be,

they could be approaching this from a position of strength. So you don't think that Gail or Tom are like next in line. You don't think that that. that there's going to be somebody from outside coming in. Or maybe a former contested. Well, I thought you were going to say, like, would the show be more negatively impacted if either of them left as well? I think, strangely, Tom might be the hardest to replace just because his steadiness

and just, you know, legitimacy throughout the industry is sort of what gave the show a voice at the beginning and what sustained it. I think the thing is with programs like this, and when I say like this, I don't just mean reality shows because I don't watch a ton of them, but even like recently with Jeopardy, where to replace the legend, they replaced almost within, from within the family, right? Ken Jennings was a champion who was familiar to the audiences and he's sort of taken over the show or at least half of the, or more than half of the shows. The lesson from the COVID season was just like, look what a community they've created of potential TV stars who can step in. So I think that,

I don't know, I think that it's almost guaranteed its own. longevity. Now, to your question about hosts, no, I think the host energy is a different energy than people on the judging panel, and I think it should be. But that said, I think there are a couple different ways they could go. Would you like to hear the little list I drew up? I would love to. This is Simmons-esque by you. Well, yeah, but also speaking of Simmons-esque, I assume you mean Bill and not Ben. I think, you know, you're a company guy. You know, you've been in Sweden for weeks from what I understand. And I think you probably have the contacts at Fanduil to get the odds on this. Because I don't actually, I also don't, as people know, I don't understand betting,

so I don't know what's good. But I've got a list. I drew up a quick list. I'm sure I'll be wrong. But here's what I think. So if you want my off the dome guess as to who the first call they might make, or at least to audition, it would be to Kristen Kish. I think promoting from within the family is good. Familiar faces is probably good. And Kristen is both telegenic and has had some experience now doing TV work on Food Network and other places. I think she did some work on Netflix. I also do think it's important that at least one to have a non-white member of the trio at the top of the show. That would be my, do you have any, so that's my, that's my house favorite. What do you think? So does she have like a series of restaurants that she would be leaving if she were to do

I think the truth is, and I don't know they're particulars, but I feel like a lot, the mode for, like, the recent winners has been don't tie yourself to one restaurant, which can destroy your soul, not to mention your bank account, but to kind of take on consulting gigs where you're the face of something. So I know that she, quote, has a restaurant in Austin, but I don't know what that means. You know what I mean? Like, she doesn't have a restaurant group. Yeah, who among us doesn't have a restaurant in Austin, you know what I mean? I know a number of people who pretend they live in Austin, even though they clearly live here. So, yeah, so that's a thing. So I think that's possible. I would also say, well, so let me, I can go through a couple. There are a couple people from the, like, recent contestant pool who I think could have a shot. Okay. My next pick does not tick my POC box, but Brooke Williamson is.

That was mine. Yeah. I think Brooke is fantastic, a champion on the show, and has been doing a ton of TV recently. It has that edge that Padma also has, which is warm and welcoming, but sometimes, like, this is a competition, by the way. Like, Padma still has the, like, it's gladiator time, like, when she's introducing one of the quick fires or if she's giving feedback. I mean, she can obviously, like, play the heartstrings a little bit, like, when she's really sad to pack up somebody's knives and watch them go. But Brooke has an edge to her that I think would be pretty cool. The other person from that same cut from the same cloth is Eric Adjjjord.

Pong, who was on two seasons recently and has been doing some hosting on Food Network. Again, I don't know how committed they are to have a woman be in that role, but I think he'd be really good, or at least be really good to be brought back into the family. All of this brings up a question I had for you just about the way the show is run, which is, does the host and the person who does the quickfires need to have a seat at the judging table? Or might they consider splitting the duties, having a host, and having another permanent judge? I think that there is a nice continuity to it. I think if anything,

the reason why it almost felt like Padma's show over the years is because of the way that she would move from. She's on at the most. I'm setting up the episode, but I'm also in some ways, like, driving a lot of the aesthetic decisions that are the competitive decisions that happen towards the end of the episodes. So I don't know if it would be cool to have like one person who's just kind of bubbly and is like Chipotle is bringing forward like sustainable Mexican food and that's why we're going to have you guys make burritos today whether it would be good to have that part be this be different people than the ones who are actually judging I think it makes the kind of diminishes the quickfires if you if you've got like a host who's not really

involved with the rest of the with the rest of the show so here's my pitch and for people who read stuff that I would write about top chef back in the grantland days like this is I'm I'm still beating this drum, which is, I would be curious if they did draft a former contestant as the new host, if that host role could also be kind of a coach mentor, meaning you host the show. Voltajio style. You do the, yeah, you do the quickfire. And then as the second half of the show begins, you are advising in a way, or you're floating, or you're talking about it with them, or you're getting in their head, and you're kind of

still hosting that part. I feel like that could be interesting. I always talk about the season when Emeril was there and he would show up at the chef's house or hotel and they would chat. I kind of think that's an interesting different angle but that would mean not having them on the judging panel, obviously. So do you have any other suggestions?

I've got three from outside the family. Okay. Rattle them off and then I have a concept to pitch you. Okay, then we got to kick to Kaya too, who made it clear at the beginning. She's interested in this part of our podcast and then it's going to tune out for the back half, which I don't blame.

Well, I mean, Kai's had an example. exhausting week already. I mean, it's Monday, but yeah, I get it. No, but it's just like she had the succession thing. I mean, like, she's chockered out. But it's a new week. Come on, she reset. Chris, you don't understand what it's like here in Los Angeles.

The sun was out for 36 hours. You know what I mean? Everybody's charged back up again for it to be raining today. Okay, three outside the box contenders, ready? Samin Nosrat, salt, fat, acid, heat, author, host, totally different energy, totally different world style of cooking. I just think she's awesome.

I'd love to see her on TV more. Someone who I just learned about recently, much to the amusement of Kaya and everyone else who listens to this podcast under the age of 40, you know who's good as a TV host? Gigi Hadid. Does she like to eat food?

She's really good on Nexon Fashion. I don't know. If we're keeping it from the model who also eats, maybe that's her. I have no idea. Last one, speaking of models who eat, And this is the person who I think low-key might just get the job,

Chrissy Teigen. Okay. Okay. These are just my predictions. I like the Gigi Hidid one a lot. Because you know who that is. I love with your mind is out. Yeah, no, I know who it is.

You know who was for weeks. Because I was going to suggest Selena Gomez, who does that food show on Max. This is great. Look at you. Chris, no sleep. It's still coming through with the takes.

But, Kai, do you want to go first or should I give my concept that I think we should use? I don't know if. I have any off the top of my head suggestions for replacements. I think the problem with Gigi Hedeed is that there's, so her mom, Yolanda Hedeed, was on the real house, so it was Beverly Hills. Phenomenal, didn't know. And Bravo family, right? And Bravo family. Right. But Yolanda very famously, I don't want to say she didn't let her children eat, but she encouraged her children to eat less. Cool. There's one very quotable lie where she's like, well, if you're, you just chew the almond very slowly, then you'll feel more full. Wow. Well, I mean, is she on good

terms with her mom? I feel like this would be a great, you know, FU, like kind of a break. Yeah, yeah, that can work. I like, I like the Samin Nazarat. I think that out of, I feel like also Selena Gomez. Selina Gomez is a really good one because. Selena's good. She has so much going on, though. She has, I don't think, well, but she's like a multi-hyphenate. Like, she has a makeup brand. So does Pat. Padma's on the cover of Sports Illustrated. I mean, there's precedent here. I just don't think that Selena could devote the time like Padma has. The other thing that I think is worth noting, and then, Chris, you should give us your macro take here. But Padma, this partly was from her seniority that she'd been there for 17 years through all these seasons. But she just has,

like, a gravitas to her that I think when people ran into the kitchen in the first episode, when they run into the kitchen in the first episode, they're a little bit intimidated by her. Yeah. You know, they want to impress her. They want to do it. And I feel like that's a good vibe, actually, for the show.

And I do, I like Selena Gomez's food content, but I don't know if she has that same energy. So here's my pitch. We're about, we're right before getting to the end of this World All-Star season. The finale is on Thursday night, I believe. Yeah, I'd like to say something about where we are in this, but I'm worried people will have to fast forward.

I think it's sitting right in front of us, Andy. Season 21 should be the champion gets to host Top Chef. Wow. I will say, okay, so maybe we won't do spoilers about this season, but I will just say that the person who just seems inevitably the winner would be a terrible host. Maybe, but if this person goes back to back, and if this person were to win then a competition to host Top Chef,

then that person just deserves it. This person is like Thanos, okay? Like, it is so outrageous that this season of television began with so much exciting global promise and just ends with this motherfucker and his molds pummeling everyone into submission to the point where it's not even close. Like, I'm looking forward to watching this week's finale, but. Yeah. I think he's having a little bit of a dip,

but I think you're right. He's so far ahead of everyone else, which I truly didn't see coming. I feel like you did. All right. So this is our top chef thing. Do you want to talk about the little state of the industry before we pivot?

Yeah, you want to do it? Can you tell me why the DGA making a deal with the Hollywood Studios is important and what it means to the WGA? Yeah. So the AMPTP, which is the consortium of studios, this is their playbook. And one thing that they have with the Directors Guild

is a willing participant in their playbook time and time again. The negotiations between the guilds are staggered intentionally. The Writers Guild has a lot of issues that overlap with the directors and some that overlap with the actors. But the writer's interest that we are striking for are, I think they're broader. There's a lot more terrain and a lot more distance

going into the negotiations. There's also always hope that there is enough overlap going into these negotiating sessions that there will be unity among the guilds. And broadly, there is unity and support among the guilds. I don't want to start trouble or suggest otherwise. But the playbook in 2007 was similar, which is the writer's strike. The studios then say, since you're striking, we're done talking to you for a while because we need to focus on the directors who are next. And we can't do two things at once. they then offer the directors

pretty much everything that they want and some of which does set a... Some of which touches on some of the things the writers want, but it doesn't line up. The directors immediately accept and then the studios can say, well, you know, we've dealt with a reasonable guilt and we've made reasonable offers

and the writers are intransigent and they refuse to accept a good deal when they see one and it's a shame because now we have a pattern of what can be accepted and it's really on the writers now to settle this. I don't think it's going to work because, as I said, there are some overlaps in terms of residuals, in terms of how these,

one thing we haven't really even talked about on this podcast because it's a little bit in the weeds, but when the streamers do share information, are they sharing their domestic subscribers only, or are they sharing their global subscribers, which obviously is a very different metric and one that has become important? The director's got some traction on that stuff.

they got an extra shoot day added, which is an incredible expense. And they got something else that they wanted, which was more time in post on TV shows, which is sort of, you know, it is what it is. There are great directors in TV who are great creative partners,

and then there's a more traditional pattern, which is the directors do their days in post and then go on to their next job immediately, and the showrunners and producers then go in and do it themselves. So they also got what I think they got an acknowledgement that AI is not people. They got a, like a, basically, basically a humanity affirmation.

It was like the studios said, we acknowledge that like this job needs to be done by human beings. Which is, which, you know, has also always been, I don't, I haven't heard much talk about studios trying to get fucking Wally

to direct episodic television. You know what I mean? Like I think that's a more pressing issue for writers and actors. What's Apex Mountain for AI directing? To be honest. Yeah. So,

so, look, it is, if it is a good deal that is accepted by the DGA, then I'm, very happy for the DGA. It really does nothing in terms of the critical, no, dare I say, existential issues that the writers are striking for.

So we'll see. I think it makes things harder and makes the strike longer. But we'll see what happens with the actors. By the time this podcast goes up, it may be public what their strike authorization vote was because the Cossack did call for that vote going into there. It certainly seems like they are headed towards strike authorization. It seems like it. But who knows?

So we'll see. But I think there was a contingent of people, particularly those who were not around in the previous writer's strike 16 years ago, who thought that there was such momentum against the behavior of the streamers and the studios that the directors might take a different path. Right. But those who were around then never thought that was going to happen. Okay. So from like your older friends within the industry, they were like, don't get your hopes up. I believe the text I received most yesterday was director is going to direct.

Gotcha. There's just, uh, that's just kind of the way it goes. You know, I know that there's a lot of crossover with the WGA, the writers, also being in the producers guild and being producers.

And that was why there was so much of a sort of, there are a lot of multi-hyphenates like Selena Gomez. But there was like a debate about like, oh, can so-and-so do their producing duties while not doing their writing duties or is all production writing or, you know, this sort of,

this sort of philosophical and, and obviously real debates. But do you feel like there was much, are there many people who are in the Writers Guild, who you know of who are also in the DGA, who are like, you know, on the fence about whether to do this or like have mixed feelings about this whole thing? I think, I think it's funny.

I mean, I think there are very, there are a few people who are very truly both, you know, in their souls. They write and they direct what they write. Right. I think otherwise. Sam Levinson, for instance, would be a, A relevant example.

I think otherwise that I know people who are writers first, who have gotten the bug and enjoyed directing and do it when they can. And all directors also think they're writers, just broadly. So I think that in terms of self-identification, I don't want to speak for huge swaths of people, but I think people are generally one or the other in terms of where their sensibilities and where they feel themselves most aligned. So, yeah, I just think they're ultimately different.

the guilds are very different in terms of who they represent and what the state of those industries are. Sorry, what the state of those professions are within the industry. So it is tough to imagine them aligning. I would say the last thing on the strike for now, because there's going to be a lot more on the strike, because this is, it's going to be a fun summer. And by fun, I mean one without pay. It sucks. It sucks. Our ringer colleague Matt Bellany has his podcast, The Town. And I thought there was a really, I just, for First of all, you love it when I surprise you with other podcasts that I listen to. But this is number four, so this is great. Oh, I've got number five. I'll pitch you on number five when I'm done with this.

You're going to love it. I really expanded my uvro. He had a podcast last week where he, and I appreciated this, he was like, the AMPTP has intentionally muzzled its members. There's no case for the studios being made in the press. So not only do I think the writers are right, because I am one, but that's been the dominant story that's been quoted or played out in the media. So Matt Bellany was like, well, what would the other case even sound like? And he invited on a veteran

producer and executive, Gail Berman, who used to run Fox back in the day. She greenlit the OC. Then she ran Paramount for two years after that. And is now a successful independent producer. She was nominated for an Oscar for being an EP on Elvis and had her come on. And I just think people should check it out because it was really interesting. She has been in those board. boardrooms. She has been on the other side of a lot of these things, and she couldn't really make the case for it. Was she trying to, or was she like on actually sympathetic to the rights? I think she was being open-minded. I thought she, you know, and there were some points where I think she was dismissive of some of the writers' asks in a way that probably is being echoed in the boardrooms

of these other, of these companies, particularly things like minimum staffing requirements, et cetera, et cetera. But broadly, I think her point was really one that was well taken and well articulated, which is it's in everyone's best interest. to recreate a world where this can be a career. Yeah. Because if you cut off your own legs here, the future of the industry, like younger writers not being able to stay in the industry,

not being able to have a life, make money, support themselves, support a family, while writing, then who's going to be writing and producing these shows in five years, 10 years, 15 years? So I thought that was an interesting and wise perspective from someone who's been in a bunch of these fights. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime.

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store-wide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. Should we get to talking about the idol? Because I think that we've pretty much covered the sort of state of the strike as it stands right now. I asked you, you know, you were like, what do we want to talk about on Monday?

And I was like, well, obviously the idol. I guess it's obvious because it's a new big Sunday night HBO show. But I can't tell like, what was your kind of vibe going into this show? I think my vibe

was one of trepidation bordering on disgust. I think that I have rarely been... And this is based on some of the journalism done about the making of the show? And my interest

in this particular project and some of these creators and the behind-the-scenes stuff, for sure, which we'll talk about. I think that I've rarely been as primed to hate something

or be angry about something. and I want to start our conversation about it by saying, I'm not angry at all. I'm glad that I watch this. I think it's interesting. Do you think it'll be a one-time affair for you? No, I mean, I don't think it's, be clear, I don't think it's good, but I think the ways that it's not good are pretty interesting and pretty telling. Let me say this.

This is probably the first show in five years that makes me wish I was a writing critic again. Also, I'm on strike and I can't do any other writing. But there are so many things here that made it, I kind of wanted to crack the knuckles and write something that had two paragraphs at the start that should be cut because the third paragraph is actually the one that should start it. I think I went into it obviously with a little bit more enthusiasm just because I'm a euphoria fan.

And because I love the second season so much and I love the specials that came in between the first two seasons. I am also a big Amy Simets fan, and Amy Simits was the original attached director for this show. show and I think depending on what you read was somewhat unceremoniously separated from it. I think that can be asserted. Sure. Let's just say allegedly.

And then I'm kind of like agnostic about the weekend. Like I really like Kissland. I really like the trilogy of EPs that came out in the beginning of his career. I haven't really like super kept up with him. But don't really have like any like hard formed opinions yay or nay about him. I was definitely like a weekend guy when he first came out and that's not trying to be like I like his early stuff. It's just when I got off the train.

His sort of presence in this show and not only as like one of the leads but also as the co-creator and obviously like a creative driving force along with Sam Levinson is very fascinating because it's like it's like zero to 60. Like this dude appears as himself in Uncut Gems briefly a couple years ago and now is like

front and center and also like on the controls for this very, very expensive looking hour-long drama, which is going to be on for the next couple of a next bunch of Sundays. I thought this was basically two shows in one episode. Like it was, there was like a real process oriented, what's it like to be a pop star in 2023 TV show that kind of takes up the first half of this first episode. For those who don't know or need this, but it's a show about a show about, a pop star named Jocelyn or Joss,

who's played by Lily Rose Depp, and she has like a coterie of handlers and hangers-on and choreographers and publicists and assistants, and they are played by like a litany of really good actors who will mention in due time. And she's basically on the precipice of putting out a comeback-ish album after some tough personal times. In the day that we follow her in the first episode,

she basically is the subject of revenge porn online and it derails her day, it derails her sort of life for the moment, and she goes out that night with her friends to kind of blow off steam and goes to a nightclub in Hollywood where she meets a guy named Tedros who is played by the weekend. That's my first bump. Sorry guys. Please keep going.

And she kind of comes under his spell. They meet at the nightclub, they hook up, they start talking about Prince. She invites him over to hear her new music. And he starts not only asking, really probing questions about why she wants to do what she does and why she makes the music she does, but also they fuck, which is great for everybody involved. And I want to start with that, actually, weirdly enough, because I think part of the sticker that you put on this show is people fuck a lot on it. Yeah.

You know, there's a lot of, there's a lot of sexually provocative. behavior. And there's even a certain self-consciousness about that in the show. They mentioned, obviously, Prince and Madonna come up several times, both as music cues, but as discussing, like, what great pop stars are capable of. There's this whole scene where Abel is telling Lily, like, the Tedros character is telling Jocelyn, like, about how pop music is this great Trojan horse, and you can, like, hide all these ideas inside of it. And there's also, like, repeated, like, references to basic instinct, which is another piece of mainstream popular culture that was really sexually provocative and transgressive and I think very formative for a lot of people.

But it was an example of that Trojan horse thing that he's referencing where it's like you can make a crime thriller who done it, but it's really about like, you know, sexual amoros and like those kinds of things. Have I ever told my basic instinct story on this podcast? I'm not going to do it now, but. We save it for like in a couple of minutes. Let's just get through. Yeah, no, I'm not doing it now.

I'll save it for when Kai and I are hosting next week when you're in Barbados. So I thought this was all kind of interesting. You know what I mean? I don't think that I find TV particularly horny or like, you know, like, I don't find Teddy Prime Evil trailer kind of got you. But no, here's my point is that like we're not living in the 90s anymore or the 80s where we need our sexual titillation kind of like subconsciously messaged to us through the like a prayer video or

When Doves Cry or Darling Nicky or Basic Instinct like we're inundated with it on the internet wherever you look wherever you want to find it so it's like mainstream television as a vehicle for sexuality and sexual titillation

is almost like old fashioned it's almost strange to be watching people having this much sex does that sound weird to say no it's also the game plan around the show which I don't want to get derailed by talking about but also feels very old-fashioned, where there's like this joint interview from Cannes that's in the New York Times,

where it's like Sam Levinson and Lily Rose Depp, and the weekend being like, this show isn't for everyone. This show might shock you. We set out to make something dangerous. We never meant to make a family-friendly show. It's like, okay, congratulations. They seem pretty pleased with themselves

that they're going to suddenly like make people blush. When I feel like people stop blushing in 2015, you know, forever, I think that's a really weird game plan, but also kind of gives it away how deeply interested this project might be in the feelings or emotions underneath the provocative imagery and behavior. You know what I mean? I think that it's frustratingly surface, and that's my main takeaway. So for me, it is, and you said this in the beginning of your recap, is that it's essentially, it is two shows. And the first show, which is the first, what, 20, 30 minutes of the show before the weekend appears.

Right. Is bizarre, but not uninteresting. It's almost a comedy. That's what I wanted to say. So it definitely feels like it wants to be a satire for aspects or portions of the first 20, 30 minutes. And the reason it feels that way is the sort of the coterie around Jocelyn and the sort of busy bees buzzing as this image hits the internet and starts trending on Twitter and what that means for her career and her comeback, et cetera, et cetera.

And we have these very, very, very broadly drawn supporting characters. Dan Levy is there as her publicist. Totally bizarrely, Hank Azaria is there as Chaim, I guess her Israeli manager. Like, Hank Azari is a really interesting and veteran performer. Right. It's also a choice because he does bits. He's giving himself into this one. But it's signaling something, and it's signaling something more broad, I think, which, frankly, which, you know, interested me.

Now, did I Google Hank Azaria Jewish just to make sure this wasn't a hate crime? Yeah. I did. So, okay, we're good. I wanted to know if he was in the Michelle Williams zone. I felt, you know, who's in the Michelle Williams zone is Eli Roth as Andrew Finkelstein, the Live Nation exec. Of Live Nation. Very cool.

But again, you get these characters. is you get Divine Randolph too as I guess another manager and they're all just sort of freaking out but they're trying to keep it together. It's all very surface, it's all very like crisis management. You click it a few beats to the left on the dial

and it's just like celebrity veep. And okay, I'm into that. The rhythms of that beginning were really odd and not TV. And I don't mean that they were odd, not traditionally TV. And I don't mean they were odd because I was like looking for the seams of the reshoots,

which we should probably talk about. But more that it felt untethered from any kind of like traditional notes process, development process, which it was. And in that, it reminded me of two shows, two things from the last year that are not at all related to the idol. One is, I know every watch listener's favorite, Olivier Asiase's Americanized, or an updated version of Irma VEP that was on HBO.

because it was just like, we're going to give this acclaimed French director some money and he's going to deliver something to us. And every time I watch something made by Taylor Sheridan, where I'm just like, I understand this is the shape of a television show, but it seems like it's just a guy, and just working some stuff out and also being super into CBS procedurals from the 90s.

So I was, I was, I was like, is this a year, like is Sam Levinson gone full Euro filmmaker, which I think would probably be something he'd love? And he's making something here that doesn't feel like anything else. And I was willing to go along on the journey, honestly, because it was so unexpected and because Lily Rose Depp is really charismatic. She's really worthy of, at least through one episode, of the camera just being locked on every aspect of her for 55 minutes. She could pull off something. I mean, the whole thing is she's the center of gravity that it's spinning around.

And I was like, okay, maybe. okay, sure. That was me for the first 28 minutes. You know what? I kind of like the weekend in the show. Okay. So I know that there's like, I know that that is, it's not like me try to zag or have an unpopular opinion,

but there is something like if you're going to have a show that's supposed to be really like provocative and really like daring, it helps to have somebody who's almost like rhythmically off from the rest

of the cast. So we're like Jane Adams in Daily V. Jane Adams. I forgot Jane Adams. She's having fun. Everybody is just like Hank Azaria and they're doing like basically, you know, ensemble cast batting practice for the first half of this show. I do think that when Tedro shows up and the lynch stuff gets turned up a little bit

and the Nicholas winning ref and stuff gets turned up a little bit and you start to remember, oh yeah, they compared her to Sharon Tate before and there seems to be a little bit of manipulation going on. Obviously, I think that that's going to be a plot line as the show goes on, is like, to what extent this guy is starting to, like, insinuate himself into this person's life. But I kind of found it kind of fascinating. Okay. That's a take. No? That's a take. I mean, I like the weekend as a musical artist more than you do. I like to be some kind of, there needs to be some kind of tension in the show. And the tension is obviously going to be not only like, is this guy going to take over this person's life? But also, like,

watch this dude who is not like a seasoned actor make his way through. This is the most generous. Did you get paid in Canadian Loonies for this opinion? Like did it come straight from? I got Starboy NFTs. I, um, look, I think it's truly, it's really interesting the way it's difficult to jump from medium to medium.

Very few people can do it. It honestly felt like it was like when Kevin Garnett was an uncut Jebs. And I was like, holy shit, he's playing Kevin Garnett, but also not. And the vibe is really interesting. The vibe can be interesting sometimes. I like the weekend's music. I like the weekend's full-throated, I mean post like House of Balloons.

I like his full-throated embrace of like, I'm going to be a pop star, and I'm going to go try to record number one hits, and I'm going to collaborate with these people. I like that project. I like the songs that come out of it. And I think he's good at it. And like his Super Bowl halftime show was good.

Like, he can do this. And I celebrate and support that. And then he tries to, to be an actor, and he is the most wet noodle goober on screen I can remember seeing in so, so long. The moment the show crested for me as a satire is when Lily Rose Depp's Jocelyn, who I believe to be a celebrity, who I believe to be an international icon of sexuality and femalehood and anything else that they're putting on top of her, meets this weird little dude, and he's just like,

I might fall in love with you. I listened to Prince once. Let's do shots. And I'm like, is this a bit? There's nothing, nothing compelling about him or interesting about him on screen. He's blank. I don't know, man. I like the rat tail.

I like the conversation about Prince. I like, I dug it. This is two in the morning, Chris. I want you to watch the show again without the Sam Adams and the jet lap. Because it just vanishes. It just goes away. and this is when the whole thing collapses because profoundly,

profoundly, I believe, the idea of modern celebrity to be uninteresting. Oh, well, I'm with you there. That's why I kind of like the thriller part about it. I think what could be interesting is people with actual humanity and problems existing in this bubble

that our society has created where all you want is privacy, but also you want to go out and the way to go out is to be followed by paparazzi and go to a club and perform fun and then return from the performed fun. Like, the actual day-to-day life of a pop star is probably so crushingly dull and depressing,

but that is interesting, I think, if done right, or done with some skepticism. But the whole thing falls apart when you make an international pop star the centerpiece of your show creatively. Because do you know what I think the weekend and his writing partner, and his creative partners,

not Sam Levinson and a half of it, think is interesting, owning a club in Hollywood. That's not fucking interesting. I do, too. I do do. Like, I think they think there's some, like, we're more interested in that guy's Hollywood club

than, like, how many publicists this girl has. But the idea of a Hollywood club. Like, what's up with the dude with the tattoos, like, like, that he keeps nodding to? Yeah, but, like, this isn't my, like, oh, the, the, the spice market and flea bottom was the most interesting part of Game of Friends. I know it's not.

I don't really mean that. But I do mean that, like, the actual day-to-day of running a place that is a temple for celebrity that becomes holy when people arrive in it between the hours of 10 p.m. and 2 a.m., like, okay, that's interesting. But it believes its own shit, you know, like it is just so bought in to its own importance that you can feel that. And to me, that's what leeches the drama away. Like, if there was some sex called in Hollywood or there was some thriller-slash-er angle, and you can feel Levinson, you were like the lynchy stuff and the ref and stuff, You can feel him like giving himself like a steroid shot of like, I got to really film make the shit out of this now. Because otherwise, what do we got?

And the bummer, this is when the bummer to me of the other version of the show comes. And now I'm not going to, let me also say this. I'm not here to cape up and be like what was done to Amy Simons's version of the show is a crime. Like, I don't know. And also Hollywood people and powerful people and pop stars and networks change their minds all the time. And it is their right to do that, whether it was done well or, whatever. I'm not trying to litigate that. But I do think Amy Simons is a really interesting filmmaker. And I do think a show that does seem to be, the more interesting version of the show

does seem to be about Jocelyn. I would be very interested in a version of a show about Jocelyn made by a woman. Much more interested than that than I am in a show that really takes a bunch of real state in the first 10 minutes to say to dunk on intimacy coordinators. It just basically feels like Sam Levinson being like, oh, I'm taking over the show. Great. Let me get a few heat rocks off my chest here. And like let a woman who is nude on the show be like, I can show my body if I want to. Don't be such a buzzkill. It's like great. This this whole first 10 minutes could have been an email to Sydney Swedish manager because it's like affirming some sort of like personal political project I have. I was just, I found myself entertained by the second.

half of it more than the first. I'm not trying to get you canceled today. It's not going to happen because of this. But I am laying the groundwork. No, I just feel like there's something that is just stubbornly surface and buying its own hype about the show. Because this idea of the holy idea of celebrity and the sanctity and the possibility of pop stardom, like, that's a malleable and interesting theme. I'm there for it. I kind of think the show just wants to get her writhing and naked and being into choking herself.

And like, okay, then be trash. Right. Be trash. Like basic instinct in the Joe Estraha's movies, when I say trash, I don't mean. Like, that's a well-made thriller. It just also knows what it is, you know, and doesn't feel conflicted or it doesn't feel, it's not reaching for a deeper significance. And I feel like this wants to be important because.

the people involved want to do things that are important when the show that they clearly are either capable of making or on some level just more interested in making is expensive trash. You know, we just got out of this whole like succession run. And by the end of it, I think that the sort of idea of like, who won succession or who's going to win succession? And we talked to Jesse about this. And there's been these sort of fan debates about how to watch the show and how to read the show. and succession for as beautifully as it was made and for as well as well written as it was. It just had like really good TV bones because it asked certain questions at certain times and led the breadcrumb trail go where it needed to go.

And you always felt like you kind of knew what that show was about, both in the title of the show, but also they were constantly telling you, here's what's important about this show. Here's what it's these three characters, but it's also about how they see themselves through the eyes of their father or whatever. And there's a couple of things that are on TV kind of recently that makes me wonder whether or not

like we're like on the verge of like A, you could say it's like a new kind of television, a much more free form kind of television, or you could say we've kind of forgotten how to make television. And I'm thinking specifically about the end of Ted Lassow, which was quite bizarre to me, honestly. And like not very good, but like these 75 minute episodes with like A through F plots

of like kind of melodramatic stuff that also had like super affirmative comedic moments. And then I was actually thinking about this show that you also wanted to talk about today, Platonic on Apple TV, which is like super pleasant and nice, but is a real like, why are you guys making this to me? Like it's essentially like

what if the couple from neighbors are like friends, And 10 years later, and they just start doing the same neighbor stuff again where they're like, we're too old to be partying. And it's really sweet. It's Rose Byrne, Seth Rogen, and Nick Stoller directed it. And I like a lot of Nick Stoller's movies. But it is really one of those things where I'm like, is this a TV show? Like, what it was like, what does this show about kind of?

And maybe that's also afflicting the idol a little bit. Because like, if you were asking me, if I was asking you like what the idol is about and you were asked me what the idol's about, I think we'd probably give two different answers. And maybe by like the second. in her third episode, it'll become a little bit more clear where it's like, he's taking over her life, and he's insinuating himself into her life, and they're trying to save her career or her from, you know, like, all that stuff. But like, I don't know what it's about yet. I don't really know what Ted Lasso was about. I don't really know what, like, Plotonic was about. And I wonder whether or not, like,

we're kind of getting into a little bit more of a, like, it's not as programmatic, but maybe it's also not as satisfying. I love, I just, are your arms tired? from carrying all the water for this show. I love it. I love this. This is the new European, Chris. It's just like, you've been in these socialist countries.

I don't like. I'm not saying I like this show a lot or anything. I just say I enjoyed myself watching it. I just feel like fundamentally. I also think Sam just does, like is kind of a good director. Like he is. I'm never bored watching his stuff.

He is an exceptionally gifted director. Like, there's no question. He makes beautiful pictures. And he works with great. cinematographer and production designer, like, you can't pretend that's not true. What's it in the service of? I mean, that's a secondary question. And what he as a writer does to either support or undercut or not serve what he does as a director, like, that's a separate conversation when I'm not even qualified to have since I don't watch Euphoria. But for me, I am aligned with you on the

possibility of the idol because, like, a super slick, contemporary, like, Brian, classic Brian DePaul, kind of L.A. horror story is awesome. Yeah. I would love that. I would love if in the people, and you mentioned Nicholas Winding Refund, who has those vibes in his blood, but is off making Copenhagen Cowboys.

So if you could get that, in L.A., like touch the third rail of like what's happening here now, but also the juice where you get like one of the women from Black Pink as a secondary actress on the show. Okay, that's cool. A24 is behind this. Like, this is the place to be doing it.

I think this falls apart. Because I wouldn't follow the weekend across a crosswalk with a blinking green. That's how uncharismatic he is on camera. Like, the entire project is predicated on you being like, that guy's famous in our world. Otherwise, who would follow this guy? He's a cult leader and he owns a club? I don't know that he's a cult leader. I'm just saying that, like, they made a reference to the Sharon Tate stuff.

Sorry, the cult thing is like in the log line of the show. We haven't seen any evidence of that. but that he's up to no good or there's something else going on. Okay. To your other point, I think that there is also something worthy of discussion there.

I also checked out Platonic. I love Roseburn. I love Seth Rogen. I love them together. I just like what they do. I wish they were doing something slightly different. I think that show is pleasant bordering on.

Maybe it's going to be good. I mean, I only watch one. Yeah, I thought it was totally fine. It was totally, like, lovely, but, like, I was just kind of like, man. I have, I have notes because I still, guys, I guess I still do, which is just like, Roseburn is married to a guy who just looks like they just cut him out of an Abercrombie catalog. Maybe that guy's a great actor, but I was like, that's her husband. And then they, when they meet, when she and Seth Rogen meet, they meet at a Starbucks. Yeah. Like, did Starbucks pay for

this placement? Otherwise, did you guys just get lazy? Build a coffee shot. For God's it. Like, make it a thing. It just feels lazy to me. But anyway, to me, the existence of that show is just another example of movies aren't the same anymore. And it's just there used to be a market for, I mean, I feel like I said this on the podcast or I've been talking about it that I checked out a movie I love 10 years ago. I love you, man. I checked that out recently when I was home sick, watched it again, still liked it. But I was like, this movie feels like it was shot on Daguerre type in 1870. Yeah. Those comedies, where do they all go? Well, they, they go to Apple, I guess. They become TV shows. And so maybe the energy you're talking about is like all of this, these threads that used to be woven together into movies. And now they are just being dumped into TV, which doesn't come with preexisting boxes.

So sometimes the fits are not one to one and it feels disjointed or it just doesn't quite work. Or like the whole idea of like taking a pop star and like making their big, like they used to have like a their big movie debut like Prince is going to be in Purple Rain. You know what I mean?

Like there was going to be that would be the leap to the silver screen is like what the pop star used to want to do. And now it's like the pop star becomes a co-show runner on a TV show. But also. And then shuts it down

until he gets it the way he wants it. And my understanding of this project, again, this is just, this is second or third hand. We're talking about the idol. We're back to the idol. We're back to the idol. Tonic was when it was all announced, I was like, this is impressive because obviously pop stars,

when they conquer the charts, they want to do something else. I mean, people with that galaxy size ambition and ego and maybe talent too, they want new places to go. And when it was announced, it seemed really, really smart because it was partnering with Sam Levinson and A24 and HBO, but also, which meant like it wouldn't go, it implied that it would be sturdy. people know how to do it. But it also, when it was announced,

the framing was that he was doing this project and he would be taking on an acting role in a supporting role to Lily Rose Depp, who's the star of the show, and Amy Simetz as director, this was all really interesting choices that seemed to run against the ego of a pop star, but also seemed to be smart in a self-protective way

because who knew if he could act. So if he was just playing like an enigmatic secondary role, cool. You shoot around him, basically, and you use his celebrity. And then everything we've heard from what happened is he didn't like playing a secondary role and shut the whole thing down and rebooted it more to his taste. And that is definitely the behavior of a pop star, but it does not suit in my mind what he's capable of giving. So instead of getting a provocative show in a way that would interest us, we get a show that is sort of willfully, aggressively provocative, like we're going to shock you with very little behind it. I wish we could do like a TV trade

where we could trade half of the idol to Platonic and half of Platonic to the idol. Yeah. So it's like when Rose Byrne goes out in the first episode of Platonic for her first night out, she goes to Tedros' club. And when Lily Rose Depp is like,

I need somebody to come like to fix my sonos at my house and Seth Rogen shows up. Yes, I would love that. But there's just a, there's just a, there's a weird sheen to it. where it just doesn't commit one way or another. And I really do appreciate and respect the energy of the first 20 minutes of like, who's there? Like Jane Adams being like, I miss the 90s because I was getting fucked in the stairwell of Capitol Records.

It's just like, this is, okay, all right, this is interesting. They're having fun. But you can't skewer an entire world and then also want to celebrate it and draw you into it in an intoxicating way. you got a pick and the show so far at least through one. Yeah, I mean, like we always say, pilots are weird. So I'll be curious to see what the next episode's like, though. I mean, do you think it'll be, will it be shocking? I think it'll be, it'll just be like them, those two at like a craft brewery.

Yeah, in DTLA. Talking about mistakes that they've made. Did you, what, one of the best things about Platonic is when it's like, Seth Rogen, he has a brewery. And then to like, almost like to prove that that's a thing, there's establishing shots of three existing breweries in the York District. Like, we're good. Like, we're in safe territory here

because, you know, Angel City is by a little Tokyo. Okay. All right, I get it. Can we do one quick thing before we go? Yeah, I had a quick thing too. All right. Will you go do your quick thing? No, maybe it's the same one.

I always like what yours is. Yours is probably better. I have like a food etiquette question for you. Yeah, this is what I was hoping it would be. Okay, yeah. Okay. So while I was in Paris, I was texting with Andy. We would kind of have like a little window every day.

My wife loved this, by the way, when she was like, what are you doing? I'm like, nothing. I was just texting Andy. Wives love when you text on vacation. That's just the thing. Maybe that's the new show on Apple with Seth Rogan and Roseburn. Comedians and cars texting their wives while they're supposed to be in vacation. And it was like our last night in Paris.

And I had had a fair amount of what I would call Parisian fare to eat, if I have to be And I'll say another thing. I went to Cafe to Floor. I went to Cafe Charlotte, great restaurants. Look at him listing as bona fides. But if you bang out two of those a day for a couple of days, like it starts to run together a little, you know? And so I found myself in my last night at a restaurant down the street from my hotel

called Mama Cita. Uh-huh. And it was a Mexican restaurant in Paris. and I was like, I'm getting Mexican food tonight. You know, much like the weekend, you can hate on me, but you have to respect me, you know? And he didn't respect it. He was just like, he was like, what are you doing?

I'm going to say it again now. And I guess my question is, is like, is it okay to not eat basically the native cuisine of this country you're in? Yes, it is. However, what you did was not okay or it's not okay. Why? What you did. Okay. First of all, I do want to applaud, I want to applaud you as my friend and as a traveler. There's a travel writer that I've loved for a long time named Pico Iyer. He has a book called The Global Soul. And really it's about you. Because when Chris travels to Europe, which, as listeners know, he does quite frequently.

You never, you always zag. So Chris lands in London. and, you know, he has a very strict anti-jet lag regimen, which involves, in his words, going out and having a lot of meriddi's. Now, I never note this publicly because I'm like, Chris, you're in London, the land of wonderful beers, and you're drinking in a bottled Italian lager, okay, that's your move. But you don't want, I feel like you don't want to support the home team. That's like my dad, like lives in Pennsylvania's whole life,

roots for the same loose cart. case. You got to get out among the people in London. They're drinking meriddi's out there. They're drinking fosters. They're drinking... They're drinking horse light

I saw when I was there, but I didn't have one. So it's just like, nobody is like, oh, you didn't order a half of bitter get out of this country. Then I see some snaps

from the work hang in Sweden. And I see Chris hoisting a couple Chingdows. Yeah, because we were in a Chinese restaurant. So I'm like, this is now becoming a bit

that Chris walks into. a place and it's just like, nope, this is, I don't do this. Now, I'm not saying you are an unadventurous person. I think that you would probably be drinking some like really interesting Swedish microbrews in Beijing. You know what I mean? I just feel like you just keep it. So my issue with you in Paris isn't that you're in one of the great food cities in the world and you're turning your back on it. It's twofold. There is great food from all over the world in Paris. In the top ten of those cuisines, I don't think.

think I would place Mexican. Could be wrong. Maybe it's there. You could be wrong. But my second point is... The Mexican food was quite good. Chris, where do you live? In Los Angeles. What's really good in Los Angeles? I needed to change the palate. I couldn't do another round of escargo.

No, but then go get Chinese food. Amazing there. Get Vietnamese food even better there. When's the last time you've been to Paris? How do you know the Vietnamese food's that good? Well, first of all, I was there in 2014, and I'm sure nothing has changed, and I'm an expert. So let's just, let's just say... How do I know that because of fucking colonialism? That's why the Indian food is good.

As soon as it came out of my mouth, I was like, oh, I'm going to regret that one. Did you feel the way when you were like, the weekend is a very compelling actor? No, I'm fucking dying on that hill now. You've only made me stronger. I don't like it. I'm sure that I'm going to come to regret that take for a variety of reasons. And I don't often zag and I don't often throw out hot takes. I'm more known as the point guard.

I'm more known as like delivering the ball to a guy. a place right where he needs them in the bread basket. But I got to tell you, I think you guys are ever fucking reacting about the weekend. I think he's fine. I think he's interesting. I also, because this is a podcast based more on friendship

than covering television at this point, you're not wrong. Like, you were away a long time, and it is okay to want to eat something. You're not, it is boring if you're like, I have to approach eating meals as homework. I was in,

as listeners, I was in Japan recently. And when I got to the hotel, I was staying in Kyoto, I was like, that's funny. Famed Philadelphia Mark Vetri,

who has amazing Italian restaurants, has a restaurant in this hotel in Kyoto. And I was like, imagine wanting to eat that. And then on day six, I was like, your spaghetti sounds pretty good right now. I know.

That's what happened. I went to a Chinese restaurant in Sweden because I had eaten so many like potato heavy dishes in England. I was just so dead from that. And so I did Chinese food my first night in Sweden. I did Mexican food

my last night in Paris. And yeah, I mean, I had Indian food in England, but who doesn't? There's no one way to do these things. And I'm sorry I gave you a hard time. But I was noticing more of the pattern that you don't like things from. This is why I love our friendship is because you see me in ways that I don't see myself. I just feel like it was like that attitude of like let's not wear the band's concert tea to the band's concert. You know what I mean?

You're like, I wouldn't want to be seen in this country eating their food. I'll eat their food elsewhere. You know what I mean? Like it's just, you walk in with your arms crossed being like, nah. There are other things. There are other things to do in Paris, but I'm sure you appreciate it. I mean, you know, it's not all about food there. Yeah, I got some work shirts, some, like, laborer gear.

Did you get some, like, blue smocks? Some shackets, yeah. All right, let's wrap it up. I'm delirious. I hope that this podcast can write itself on Thursday when we're back in the same room. I think I've been pushing the limits of good. taste, both with my weekend fandom

and with my, apparently my, like, illegal beer choices. Kai, how do we do today? Good, it got a little contentious there for a bit, but I think you guys came... About the weekend. Of all the things that would break up this near 30-year relationship, it was Starboy. By the way, I'm on the Mamasita website right now

and my French is a little rough, but it says that it's the Parisian taqueria par excellence. You know, it says La Bamba Latina. do Paris. That seems right. It says it's festif. Was it festif? Yeah. It was lovely. It was lovely. Great. It had all the Parisian cafe trappings, but with guacamole, a tortilla. I had a torta. Yeah. Yeah. How do you say avocado and French, Chris? I don't know, man. This is great. I don't know. All right. Let's wrap it up. Thanks to Kai

McMulling for producing us. I just feel like you've made yourself vulnerable and I'm taking advantage of it and I'm sorry. No, I think I just need a nap. That's probably... I think we're good. I'll see Andy in the studio on Thursday. We'll talk about... Maybe we'll talk about Top Chef as it wraps up, but we'll have plenty of things to discuss.

Greenwald, great to see you. Can't wait to see you in person. Please take some rest. Take some time for yourself. Come back, and we'll drink some regionally non-specific brews together later in the week. No, we'll have yingling when I'm in L.A. That's right.

That's right. Some warm, warm, shelf-weary yinling. I can't wait. Thank you.