The Watch - Just How Popular Is ‘The Mandalorian’? Plus: ‘The Crown,’ S3E5-7 | The Watch

Episode Date: November 22, 2019

Despite all of the pressure on ‘The Mandalorian’ to make Disney+ a success, the show is an easy and enjoyable watch (1:08). Plus: An update on ‘Briarpatch’ production (13:04) and a breakdown of episodes 5-7 of ‘The Crown’ (23:48). Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Guest: Amanda Dobbins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of The Watch is brought to you by Star Wars Jedi Fallen Order, the new action adventure game from Respawn Entertainment, taking place between Star Wars Revenge of the Sith and Star Wars A New Hope. Players will wield a lightsaber, hone their force powers, and adventure across the galaxy in hopes of rebuilding the Jedi Order. Become a Jedi in Star Wars, Jedi Fallen Order, available now on Xbox 1, PS4, and PC rated T for Teen. Today's episode of the watch is brought to you by Zycam.

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Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at the ringer.com and joining me on the other line, the preeminent dealer of black market Baby Yoda merch. It's Andy Greenwald. Ooh, it's a parking lot day, buddy. Yeah, so I got to say. What's the vibe in?

I'm sure they're cracking down. What do you mean? They're cracking down on that merch, right? Yeah, they are. Like, they've taken the gifts away. Like, you can't gift baby Yoda anymore, I think. Oh, my. God. Big Bob came through with the eraser.

Chris, that was the gift that kept on giving. Come on. Wow. All right. So you want to know about the vibe of the parking lot? I think people can tell it's going to be one of those A-plus. Well, I do have a mandon to talk about episodes 5 through 7 of the Crown season 3. So whatever we do is just, we're, it's all gravy from here. God, episode seven, God, what is this? Binge mode? Relax, guys. Yeah. Yeah.

Andy, what's your feeling? You know what one thing is always, interesting with pop culture is how things just get away from creators you know what I mean and and this baby Yoda thing which I don't fully get because like a lot of it is like I'm going to tell my kids that these I don't even know how that meme started but you see that meme where it's like it's like you know a picture of Ariana Grande and it's like I'm going to tell my my kids that this was I don't know Janice Joplin so it's like did you just if you seen that? What does that mean? I,

I, I understand that meme? Are you asking me for help? Yeah, but do you get that meme? Yeah, so the premise of the meme is like, the best one I saw was like a picture of the two property brothers. And it was like, I'm going to tell my kids that this was the chain smokers.

Wait, first of all, longtime listeners will note that might be the most delighted Kai has ever sounded to chime in on a watch podcast. Second of all, Kai, do you know what the origin of the meme is, which is like the hardest part about this. Oh, no, I have no clue. Okay, because it's too big at this point to ever find the origin. Grimwald, have you noticed where now it's like Harrison Ford will be trending?

And then it'll just be a million people being like, why is Harrison Ford trending RIP? Question mark. Can I just pause for a second and say that is it too late to change our Wikipedia page or the Facebook page to say that the watch is America's preeminent podcast in which a millennial explains me to two old dudes? like this is quite a bit and quite a start for this podcast. I wonder if there are other things, Guy, can explain to us. But anyway,

going on, so you're asking me if I've noticed trending topics on Twitter. There's two things I want to know. Do you know? What does this start first? This is a, this is a triptych of a conversation. I want to talk to you about baby Yoda and the commodification of baby Yoda

and whether or not they intended baby Yoda to be like a care bear, right? Because this is a very powerful being. And with great power comes great responsibility. Number two, I wanted to know if you were up on the meme where it's like, I'm going to tell my kids that this was this. And if you had any insight as to where that started. And number three, what's up with trending topics, not saying why things are trending. Okay.

Boy, a lot to chew on there, Chris. Which one should I tackle first? Well, let's start with, to start with a name on everyone's lips, baby Yoda. that just seems like a gimme, you know? I think it's pretty smart. I think that, you know, I said on the last show when we were talking about The Mandalorian, that, like, I think I'm generally more allergic

to things that feel particularly memeable or intentionally cute. That said, one thing that John Favreau, who made the show, seems to have either learned from Kevin Feigy in their time together, Marvel, or maybe they learned together, is basically like tell the cleanest, clearest version of the story

and don't run away from the things that make it appealing. Yeah. And, you know, you have Muppets in Star Wars and everyone loves Yoda, so it's just two great tastes that go great together.

You know, it doesn't feel, here's what I, I'll say this with true respect. It does not feel overthought. You know what I mean? It does not feel like this was an idea, the Fabro pitched.

And that, you know, people sitting around the old, I don't know, Ewa Campfire at Lucasfilm are like, oh, but what does it mean? Because is it really, Yoda, or what are we going to say about it? What are we trying to say about it? It was like, no, that's cute and that's a good idea. I bet they put a little bit more thought into it than that. No, but I'm saying is they didn't overthink it to the point of, like, taking it off the board because they were concerned about what it might mean for continuity

in the green alien space. You know, you're kind of making it sound like the boardroom of Lucasfilm is actually, inside SoCal with Kyle Mooney. And they're like, that would be sick, bro. That would be hell of tight if Yoda was a baby. Can you prove to me that that's not how it happened? Like, can you definitively say that that's not what happened? Have you been, oh, do you want to address any of my other somewhat tongue-in-cheek meme questions?

I have to say no. I mean, honestly, I'm just glad that this is a safe space because I think probably the watch co-hosts of eight years ago when we started the podcast. would probably be up on these and maybe even contributing a couple of these hot prop brothers meme to the universe. But instead, the two of us had a spirited text chain this morning about the impeachment hearings. So I feel like, I just am glad that our audience is growing up with it. Well, I actually haven't really watched any of it live. And to speak to the, you know, why is this trending thing?

That's happening a lot too, where like we're getting a lot of Fiona Hill and my TL. And I don't know why exactly. Okay, name two other reasons why Dr. Fiona Hill, Ukraine expert, would have been in your TL. Either she's endorsing Bernie Sanders or she did not care for my takes on Skyfall. I think it's probably one of the two, but we'll never say which. I wanted to know, did you, have you been like, do you find like in your everyday life, like, around the offices while you guys are editing and there's, you know, different folks from Smail Corp and anonymous content, obviously milling around. Are people talking about the Mandalorian around you?

I did have a good conversation with Sam Esmail about it yesterday, and he's a big fan, and will hear me saying this and probably wish that he had saved this take for when he was on the podcast. But I think that, honestly, so he really likes it, and we had a good talk about it, and obviously he'll be on the podcast at some point soon, and we can talk to him about it then. But it's a good question, because I think the way to characterize the way people are talking about it, it is kind of similar to what we said on Monday,

which is this is a fun thing. It feels weirdly depressurized at this moment, you know, in the way people talk about it. A couple weeks ago or months ago or even a year ago when it was announced, it felt like, oh, well, this is the first Star Wars show ever, so a lot's writing on it. This is the flagship show on the Disney pluse launch,

which is a multi-million, hundreds of million dollars, expense for the company, and obviously the future of the company. It's pretty impressive the way within two episodes and just like in about a week and a half, now people are like, that's a fun thing that I look forward to. And it doesn't seem to be worried or troubled over. And part of that I think is because there's a baby Yoda, there's a dude with a mask and a gun, and there's episodes are short.

So it doesn't feel, you don't feel all the stress that went into it, which is not always the case with these sort of service launching properties. Absolutely. I mean, I think that around the office here, people are like, sincerely enjoying it. And I think I was coming off as like a bit of a crank. But I think that you're right. I mean, there's, I think that there's something to the, uh, the way that they're telling the story that feels entirely like at ease. And, you know, I was talking with, you'll hear with me talking with Amanda about the crown later. And she and I kind of came to the conclusion that

the way that they're making the show now is a model for sustainability where, you know, like they've obviously changed the cast, but in some ways, even they're handing over the reins of the story itself to different characters in a way that they didn't ever really figure out a way to do with a lot of the prestige shows that you kind of wondered whether, like, oh, I wonder if they could just, like, keep making Mad Men or keep making Breaking Bad by like, you could have just followed Jesse out the gates right then and done El Camino right off the back. And in some ways, they have figured that out with Breaking Bad because of Better Call Saul, which is coming back in February. But Star Wars feels like they actually hit a point.

a rhythm and a logic to this show where they can make it and not have it tip the scales too far in one direction or another and still have an enjoyable piece of entertainment? I would add one thing to that. I think sustainable is an interesting word choice and one that actually dovetails with the thing that Sam and I were talking about,

which is that he was really impressed with the way Favro has made the show. And I wasn't really keyed into that. I'm not really paying close attention to the technical effects of it. But apparently, they're shooting the show, here in L.A., well, in Manhattan Beach, and they've got a soundstage and probably more than one. But it is not green screen. It's all LED screens.

Yeah. And this is, and it's working, right? I'm buying it. And it's kind of quietly revolutionary. Because I obviously like the Avengers movies, all the Marvel movies, anytime we see one of these like, just some friends paling around on set, photos, it's like, it's, you know, Chris Pratt and Tom Holland in half of their suits standing in front of a pile of rubble and a green screen. Yeah, they're all wearing comp and movies in Atlanta. Doing it out here is significant. I think it, you know, obviously, if other shows start doing fictional universe type shows like this, you know,

VFX heavy shows like this, people generally live, actors live here, they would rather work here than in Atlanta or any of the other nice places that have great tax credit. But also that the LED screen aspect of it is sort of revolutionizing as well. So it's interesting. It clearly, of all the companies, Disney is the one that is going to want to make a lot of shows with people in fake places. And if they're building a whole new soundstage to do that, then we can expect a lot more shows like this, not just in the Star Wars universe. And correct me if I'm wrong, the LED thing is essentially when the actors are on stage, they are seeing projections of the world in which they're acting in on the walls, right?

As opposed to a giant green screen? Yes. Listen, my knowledge of actual VFX stuff stops and starts with ping pong balls. So Sam said, you know, they're doing it with LED screens, and you do, just sagely nodded, but you didn't say, like, what does that mean? What does that mean? No, well, we did some, like, the ease of use, I think, is a lot higher. Okay. And the fact that they've invested in the studio here is, I could walk back in right now into his

office and ask him, but he's also in the middle of editing episode 411 of Robot right now, and it's a lot. Yeah, and Andy and I will eventually talk about Robot. I know a lot of people have been asking us to weigh in on this final season, and especially some of the most recent episode that everybody is really fired up about, but we're trying to save that up for a special occasion. I saw people were assuming that it was like a church and state thing or whatever. I'm excited to talk about the season.

We talked about the season premiere. I'm just behind, like I'm behind on everything. And yet, we were going to try to get it together for, you know, for when maybe we get a chance to talk to the person who made it, hypothetically.

You're like just sitting there. You got 12 hours a day of impeachment hearings. So there's only so many hours every day. Believe me. That's what, yeah, there are like five screens in each editor bay and like, at least four of them.

And all your, all your pro-doctor Fiona Hill burners. that you're operating on tweet deck. Dude, she's the most compelling TV character of the year. Do you want to give everybody an update on how things are going with Briar Patch? Sure. Should I do it now? When a man is wheeling two office chairs on asphalt? Are you sure it's happening in real life or isn't an LED screen?

I wouldn't know. I honestly would know the difference. Yeah, man, we are still here. We are still editing. Fishing up revisions on episode 8. We're working on episode 9. 10 is eluding. And it's totally surreal. It's very strange. Episodes are locking now.

For people who don't know what any of the things I just said mean, is that basically the editing process is we shoot the film. We get daly's obviously the editor is waiting in LA, gets all the footage, assembles an editor's cut. Under DGA rules, the director then joins the editor once the assembly is done. and gets four days to make his or her cut of the episode and then pieces out. And then I sit there with the editor and keep working at it and reframe it and reshape it and sometimes reorder it and remove things and ad lines.

And then I'm lucky enough to have the aforementioned Sam come in and give great and helpful notes on it. And we keep tweaking in. And he's like, it needs more of Baby Yoda? He's like, I love what you did with the LED screen here and I just nod. we send it to the network, send it back, and eventually we lock picture, which means then once that means we're not making any more changes

the way it looks, then the effect stuff is done, color correction, and then we do sound mixing. So it's like the kind, it's just almost impossible for my brain to understand where we are progress-wise because at this moment I'm talking to you, I think episodes 1, 3, 4, 5, and 6 are locked. but 27, 8, 9, 10 are not. And so I'm sort of jumping between all of them at the same time.

And it's a little bit crazy-making, but it's a little bit awesome, too. I wanted to do so much creative work here in post. I wanted to ask about the idea of jumping between them at the same time. So, like, at any given day, do you have cuts of multiple episodes kind of up and running on different machines? On the best days, well, not the best days, but on certain fluid days, I can jump between, because I have three editors. Each editor, two of the editors have three episodes. They're responsible for, and one has four.

And so theoretically, I could jump between them and say, make these changes here, I'll check back with you. Check these changes here. I'll check back with you, et cetera, et cetera. More often than not, I get bogged down with one because we really just go scene by scene line by line and then just until it's done. But yes, I mean, yesterday I was giving notes on the opening of 10, reviewing music cues that we got in from our amazing composer,

4-9, and then screening 8 for Sam and taking his notes and talking to him about what was going on here and there. So it's constantly active between all of them. And I think I said this when we were making the show. That's the hardest part for me, honestly, is that kind of like galaxy brain four-dimensional time. The non-linear thinking. Keep the track all of it in your head at the same time.

And it was really hard writing it, and it was hard producing it. And now in the edit, not only is it hard to do, it's also hard to be confronted with all the times that you may have forgotten something. Right. Or weren't tracking something. Oh, the last time we saw this, Derek was upset about this, and they seem awfully nonchalant in performance here.

Sure. So little little things like that. Okay. Because I, you know, I was thinking about, like, the way in which, like, even when you're just, like, say, looking at, like, I know this is not a good comparison to, like, making a TV show, but the way in which you wind up, like, if you're looking at a browser and you're clicking between tabs,

and you can have like different emotional reactions to different pieces of content that you're seeing on your screen at any given moment, but you can also channel surf between those emotional reactions like whether or not there was a similar experience jumping in and out of what might be a funny scene, what might be a dramatic scene or an action scene, and also happening in different temporal moments of the show itself.

It's funny. I just stepped out of the session on 8 and Gina, our good friend, and brilliant editor is working on it. And I was talking to her, and Greg Tilsen, our post-producer, about one of Jay Ferguson's lines, and maybe it wasn't working, and maybe we should take it out,

not because of the performance, but because we wanted to get to the meat of the scene, and then we watched it without it, and it was okay, and then Gino made the really smart point, that clever lines, lines that feel funny or surprising, lose their efficacy like chewing gum,

the longer we watch them, and it's very hard to remember that most people will only ever see, if I'm lucky enough to have them watch it at all, or only ever going to watch it once. And the power of that line is still threat to power, but the effect of that line is still in play for them, that they could be surprised thrown off,

and it might have a positive effect on the scene. It's not deadening it for them, because they've never seen it before. So that's a whole other level of time that you have to consider, too, that I'm sick of a lot of it, but hopefully other people won't be, and they'll be watching in a completely different mindset.

The other thing, though, I'm going to say, that's particularly tricky about timeline, is I'm going back methodically trying to drop flang like, okay, boomer, into the show, you know, which wasn't really happening when we were writing it, but I feel like it's going to make the show really, really pop. Yeah. So, like, how does this guy know all this?

Like, boy, he's really like... I thought it was cool that you put in that scene where Rosario Dawson walks up to another character and says, I'm going to tell my kids that this was the property brothers? Yes. No, I mean, I hadn't done that yet, but that's a fucking great idea. kind of cut this part, and that way people think it was my idea. The other thing,

Chris, that you appreciate, and hopefully people who watch the show will appreciate too, that's really fun about Post is music. So there are songs that you put in the show are called needle drop. And a bunch of them, because I can't help myself, and just want to be making mixtapes professionally, I put into the script. And some of those choices

really work. Once we get to the stage, some of them don't. But there's an episode that requires a lot of music because of what's happening in the background, and I won't get into it past that. But just to say that it's definitely stretching the limits of our music budget. And there are a couple examples where we're like, well, maybe we can just use kind of a substitute song that sounds like the good song.

Right. And then you realize, like, the deathly rabbit hole of most, honestly, not most TV, but a lot of TV, which is just like, well, just play the song that sounds like the other song, but really makes your show sound like a TV show. Right, right. And that is a dangerous road. so interesting thing about that is there clearly is a robust industry just out there for people with like access to a studio to feel like, you know, I'm just going to make a song that kind of

sounds a little bit like a new. If you wanted Arctic monkeys, but you just can't quite come up with the money. No, no. So you will find a song from the cold orangutan. Right. You know, and it's, and it's just a little, little, little bit different. You know, like, oh, here's the song that kind of sounds like new radicals. And it's called, you know, you receive what you put into the world. And it's just kind of in a different tuning. Right. That is a sick gig.

That is a really nice gig. Well, we always have that to fall back on if podcasting doesn't work out for us. We harmonize beautifully. We always have. Andy, I'll let you go. I'll let you get back to it. Sounds like you're very busy. We'll be back in a few minutes with my conversation with Amanda.

And then Andy and I will be back on Monday to talk about Watchman and Mandalorian and everything else. Quick question, where I go, what is the background music for the segment where Kaya explains things to us that are happening on Twitter? Is it also the Chernobyl music? Because I think it should be. We have to come up with a Kaya Corner music stab. I think Chernobyl does it, but I'll leave it to her. Always a pleasure.

Everyone should know this parking lot is just doing great. I almost got run over by a hybrid a moment ago because it didn't make noise. And I didn't even stop talking. I got to tell you, it's not going much better over here in PS1. It sounds like Santa Claus is above me dragging bags of toys back and forth across the ceiling. So I'm going to go investigate that. Andy, we'll talk to you on Monday. Great job, Branski.

See you right. Great job. Google Assistant is ready to help you get more done with just your voice in the car, at home, and everywhere you take your phone. When you're driving and want to listen to your favorite ringer podcast, hands free, just say, hey, Google, play the latest episode of the rewatchables podcast. Okay, here's the latest episode of The Rewatchables, The Shining, with Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey, and Chris Ryan. Hey, Google, pause podcast. A little help, hands-free, just say, hey, Google, to get started.

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Today's episode of The Watch is brought to you by Watchmen. Can't get enough of HBO's Watchmen. Now you can go deeper inside the show. Critics have called your new TV obsession with the official Watchman podcast, hosted by Watchman, executive producer and writer Damon Lendeloff, and Craig Mason, the creator of Chernobyl, the new podcast explores narrative choices, uncovers Easter eggs, and examines the show's connection

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I'm like, tingling. These episodes are so good. This is when they really just hit the highway. It's amazing. Yeah. And I guess I want to talk to you about the sidelining of Queen Elizabeth by the coward Peter Morgan. Is he a coward or is he brave? But I want to know how you feel about this.

sort of Elizabeth as almost cameo slash supporting actor in these episodes and somewhat through the season so far. I honestly think they haven't done it soon enough. And if Peter Morian is a coward, it's because he started with episode one instead of episode four, I think. With all respect to the people of Averfan, and I thought that was a very affecting episode and illuminating and obviously taught me a lot about a tragedy in history that I wasn't super familiar with. But there's a lot of throat clearing in this season. And some of it's a very affecting. necessary because they just completely changed the cast and that's jarring. And I think whatever the first two episodes of this show would have been, we all would have been like, huh, what's going on? But I think that this season just really clicks into drive when you get back to the family tensions and all of the internecine palace drama that really starts, I think, with Bubbikins. Yeah. And but certainly

in episodes five and six, which you and I were just, like, texting excitedly about last night because it's an incredible episode of television. Yeah. And episode six is the Prince Charles episode. I don't think either of us are going to try. We're not going to try to pronounce the Welsh title. It's Prince of Wales is what it translates to, I believe so. Yeah. Great. Welsh seems like a beautiful and very difficult language to learn.

But that is when the major tension of this season comes. into play. And the tension is the crown versus the queen and who should be, like, who should get attention and these two people vying for it, and mothers and sons, and visibility and power

and family. Whether or not we're doomed to become our parents. Exactly. So I think that in order to make some of those points, you got to put the queen to the side a bit, I think also just impractical TV terms, it's a lot more fun when you get some young people in the mix. Yes. So obviously, that episode

six that you're referring to, really, like, is, you can feel the new blood. And in this, in some ways, this season, other than that episode, is about retaining your usefulness as you get older. Obviously, in some ways,

the coup episode with Mountbatten is about that. It's him sort of saying, like, I've now been sidelined by life, and Alice is telling him, you know, it's, our lives are over. It's like our job to just sit there and watch, essentially. And in the Moondust episode,

Philip is sort of longing to have a life of meaning and to go out and explore and have adventures and be of use and essentially like finds out that he's having a crisis of faith. The only person who seems to be at peace and understand all this is Elizabeth. Yeah. So even in her limited scenes, the stuff that Olivia Coleman is doing and they do give her that moment, her Kentucky moment. Like she does have this slight reverie about like what could have been. The unlived life speech. Yeah. Which is pretty heartbreaking.

Yes. And they give Olivia Coleman moments. I mean, when she has the showdown with Prince Charles. Porchy. Porchy. Porchy. Porchy would have been funny. His father's also called Porchy.

So there's like a whole bit in the first season that's like a who's on first between Philip and Elizabeth, but just like Porchy. And she has the scene with Prince Charles at the end of the Wales episode with the showdown in her bedroom, which is extraordinary. No one does. They're giving Olivia Coleman stuff. to do, but this idea that the queen is the center of the show is maybe in question. And I think in a lot of ways it's very interesting from a TV perspective because you do want characters and there is like you might get tired of the same person going through the same thing. And if the character's arc is to try to get to a place of stability and being able to bear it,

that's great for the character and really boring for TV. Yeah. So it's good to have all the other characters. You know, also anecdotally, the reviews I've heard from my friends are, it's great, but I miss Margaret. Yes. So. Do they miss Margaret or Vanessa Kirby? They miss Vanessa Kirby.

But there is, on TV, you want a lot of different characters and a lot of different drama. Yeah. And so for this television show, which is about people trying to achieve balance to work, you've got to keep throwing other people in. Yeah. And in a specific job that they're doing, their work is about the. suppression of their individuality. And I've really loved the lattice work of the themes throughout this season. I mean, you could just sort of sit back and take this show in.

This is the best television is like this, where you can just sit back and when a character walks into a room, the enormity of the moment hits you. And you're just like, oh, my God, look at all the detail of set design and the costume design and the cinematography and everything that's happening. Or you can actually look in between the lines and find all this. this resonance and this meaning to what's happening between these people and what it means to the world around them. And, you know, I think at some point, there are certain episodes that I've been reading these novels by this British writer named Jonathan Coe. And he reminds me a lot of what I'm seeing in the crown, not necessarily in subject matter, although they're both writing about England in a certain way.

But there are points where you're like, oh, this is a little cute. Like, it's very on the nose what you're trying to tell me here. but sometimes that works. Yeah. It is playwriting. There are structures. There are themes. There are you could diagram these episodes really, really elegantly.

And they would just like be perfectly clear, which I'm a grammar nerd. So I'm just like really excited right now talking about that. But yeah, they are compact. They are each episode is about some historical event and what the historical event reveals about these people's inner lives. In a lot of way, it's kind of like, you know, episodic old school cable television. It's like a procedural. but it's like about history. But I think there is such a firm grasp of the meta-narratives

and where these characters are going over time and like what the historical events mean, but also like the historical weight of these characters that makes kind of the mundane plot of the week thing more compelling. Yeah. And we've said Shakespearean a lot, and I don't think it's a coincidence that episode six, our favorite episode of the season so far,

ends with the hollow crowd mirror. monologue from Richard the second. Yeah. Because he is definitely trying to do modern Shakespeare. So you haven't watched Hollow Crown. No, the mini series. So I really want to check this out, but the BBC Commission essentially, do they call it the Henriad? Like what is all the histories that all the British Kings plays, right?

If you told me that they called it the Henryad, I would believe that. And it's Richard II through the Henry's. Yeah. So it basically stars... Every British actor. It's like Patrick Stewart, Rory Kinnear, Ben Wishaw, Tom Hiddleston, John Hurt. Gosh, I'm forgetting like 100 people. Cumberbatch is Richard the 3rd.

Judy Dench. Yeah, Dench. Yeah. Jeremy Irons, Ben Wischaw. Just reading off the Wikipedia page here. Which is just like actors in England. Right, yeah. But I did see the Richard the second episode, the one that were Wischaw played.

So I remember that speech from there, and I obviously remember it from just being around Shakespeare to some extent. But yeah, you're right. It does feel like in a perfect world that's Morgan's ideal, right? Yeah. Because he's writing a history of kings, but he's telling a story of a country. Yes, and he's clearly borrowing on the mythology that Shakespeare created around those people to create England to create a modern mythology of the UK. That is, and it is a mythology. It's both a wistful portrait of a country that does not exist anymore and also an indictment in a lot of ways of a system that,

does not fit anymore. But I think it can work on that level as well as just being really fun to watch because they just do fun historical stuff. Did Mountbatten, aka Charles Danz, really tried to do a coup with the Bank of England? And the answer is yes. It's always yes, this happened. Yeah, and they will massage little things. Like, I think that I was reading that Mountbatten had already retired by the time.

but like the pound had been devalued or something like that. Like he retires in 65, but in 67 it is when they said it or something. But he was part of like a conversation with some media barons in the Bank of England about taking over. I love – we're going to get started with the episodes if you want. Yeah, yeah. My favorite part of coup is the reading about coups montage. Yeah. And it was just –

It's like the five successful elements to staging any coup. Yes. I was like, you invented week? Wikipedia, you invented Quora, but what it was, I was also just imagining Mountbatten going to the library and be like, do you guys have books on coups? Right. Yes, this is a whole library of this. Like specifically, like successful ones. You know, and like what?

Maybe like any guy, a lot of time on his hands, but a lot of military experience, really powerful friends. What would that guy need to know hypothetically? And then he just does like an advertising presentation in 2019. It's like you can see the Barnes & Noble book that he is. writing. He makes the deck. It's really, really, really good. He needs PowerPoint. Yeah. So we could talk about Elizabeth and then we can talk about that. I thought the Kentucky stuff, the horse stuff with Elizabeth while that was like the strongest connection I feel like to the Clairfoil Elizabeth. And I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about that.

But it's also generally how you're feeling about keeping that other show in your mind, that the Clairfoy first two seasons version of the show when you're watching Olivia Coleman. It's interesting. I think I've let it go as we get further in. It was all I could think about in the first four. And I was thinking a lot about how the character seemed slightly different. I think Olivia Coleman is a naturally funnier actor. She has comedic timing. And so they are using the queen a little bit more for comedic relief. All of them actually. I don't know if you've noticed the reaction shots in season three are tremendous. Just a lot of stills of people just looking really. really stone face, but in a way that communicates how pissed off they are. Yeah. It's great stuff. But I think probably by season five, it's kind of settled in. Or they're, you know, they're using the situational similarities.

So you've seen Claire Ford do the horses and now you see Olivia Coleman do the horses. And you're like, oh, yeah, horses. The queen also, like, really, really likes horses. She just, like, really, really IRA likes horses. And I think it, just so you know, you can still, there are still photographs taken to her. She's 93 or two or three years old now. Yeah. And it's still just like riding her horses every day.

They let her do this and they don't make her wear a helmet. Or they probably are just like everything after this is gravy. Like we're in the black. You can just ride a horse. The queen is also really short. IRL. And so the photos of her are it's just like this tiny woman in a truly giant anirac, like the largest coat you've ever seen, just like plodding around on a horse at the age of 92.

It's some great visual theater. Anyway, but there is a clip that you can watch of Queen Elizabeth at the racing track, watching one of her horses and being really into it. And it was very clear that that was a reference for this scene when the queen is at the track. And I had that in my mind so that I was more thinking about Olivia Coleman in respect to the actual queen, as opposed to Claire Floyd, which is, you know, not everyone's going to have that reference. But I think they've gotten their transition-wise for me. I liked that whole sequence and that whole part of the episode

because you can read it as, how ridiculous is it that this woman is spending all this money flying around the world for a month to look at horses and talk about hiring and building new training facilities and getting grass brought over and all this in excessive stuff while the economy is crashing in England. And you can also read it as, what a tragedy that this person doesn't get to be happening.

happy in their life. Yeah. And it's a tremendous Olivia Coleman performance because she really does become more animated in this episode. Like, when she's talking to the other people, suddenly she speaks flawless French and she just seems really alive and she's sharing sandwiches with Porchi and she's like, smelling the different condiments. Yeah.

It's definitely like a curious, awake person as opposed to this sort of this stodgy, reserved, I don't really know what's going on, Queen of the first four episodes. So it is really sad. I think critics of the royal family of which there are a ton this week, which we should kind of talk about at some point. Oh, yeah. But any of this show might say that it's, it is too sympathetic. But I do kind of think she looks ridiculous.

Right. I mean, she looks ridiculous. They're going around. There's literally a coup going on because she can't, she's just looking at horses all the time. So I think it's there in the text for you to read it in a different way, which I appreciate. I love, I mean, we've talked about the taking the books out, Charles Dance, just skin a moose in front of me like you did in Game of Thrones, read books, do whatever you got to do.

He's just such a remarkable actor. The job, like when she says to him, the job is to do nothing. Yeah. That's like the amazing part about this show is if you're talking about a bunch of people whose ideal state is in a state of nothingness, and yet there's just all this drama and emotion surrounding them, it really is just excellent writing. It's fantastic. It's also, it makes for great TV in real life, as we have learned this week with Prince Andrew, it makes for terrible actual monarchy. I mean, and that is the real tension between it. It's amazing that the things that they absolutely just cannot tolerate to survive in real life are the things that make this show so fascinating.

Yes. Do you want to talk about Prince Andrew? I mean, my man's basically not in the royal family anymore. Makes a brief cameo in Moondust. Right. He does, and seems really excited. But I don't know if you watched his interview on the BBC. I did. He's been associated with Jeffrey Epstein for a decade now. They were photographed together. His relationship has been under scrutiny for several years, and he finally decided to give an interview. Extraordinary television. You got to say that. It's a tonic in comparison to the crown itself. There's some real, like, oh, this is what these people are really like.

And I will say I went back to rewatch some of the episodes with, like, a slightly different perspective. Like, which ones? Well, I guess I just rewatched these three, and I was a little more watching the queen gallivanting around looking at horses being like, oh, you're not paying attention. Sure. And you guys are kind of out of it. And even as she's giving that speech, which I think is just like a tremendous Olivia Coleman speech of the unlived life. And I would have been very happy doing this. And I'm like, oh, you would have been very happy being super rich.

And flying around the country looking at horses to compete with the Aga Khan, me too, fam. So with literally anyone else You're not a horse girl, IRL though. No, I mean, the horses seem too smart for me to trust them, you know? Like they have their own... Is there an IQ level that you prefer your animal to have? Horses are really smart. And so they could do whatever they want.

And I don't like... Like calculus? What are you talking? But it's just like when I'm facing off with them, I don't think... I'm not convinced. So now I'm imagining you like... You're like, guys, you know, you've tried a lot with the term. Franchise. I don't think we're talking about what could really rise up and destroy us,

which is horses. But they honestly probably could. They're very powerful. They're beautiful, majestic animals that are also like, I am not going to take any shit from you. But also give me a carrot. Well, I'm also like giving me a carrot a lot. That's like the story of capitalism, okay? I'm just saying. But I do think they're beautiful. And I feel like all the accoutremae of horses seems really great. which, as I understand it, are like, lush green fields and, like, lots of parties. Yes.

Yeah. No, that's true. And I like the outfits. Yeah. Not the jockey outfits. Like the... One bad beat for horses is, like, you kind of can't come back from a broken leg. That's true.

So that might be one hurdle not to scare any horses by putting hurdles up in front of them. Humans do have the upper hand in certain situations. But I'm just saying, don't underestimate a horse. Okay. All right. Fair enough. Any other thoughts on the coup? I just thought the cake.

was really funny. They give Mount Baden a farewell cake, and it just is a cake that just says farewell. And then there's like, no one eats it. So he has to walk out through the rotunda with all of the white men singing all dang sign to him. Yeah. And there's just a man behind him carrying a cake. What an unbelievable bullshit.

Oh, wait, there was one more thing. So he gives a speech at some point, not really clear to who. Yeah. Oh, when he's doing his like week. soldiers know what, like, really what it's like, yeah. Yeah, that's what I wanted to talk about, because he's like, he literally, his argument is, remember when we, like, died on bayonets, like, real men? He just invokes dying on a bayonet.

Yes. As this sign of, like, the glory of days gone by. One thing that I really love about the 50s and 60s, especially in England, it just seems like people went to a lot of speeches. Have you noticed that? They really did. It's just like, what are you doing today? Oh, God, Mountbatten's talking.

I just cannot wait. man. It's true. I mean, I guess they didn't have TV. So you would, if you wanted to, like, learn about science or something. Yeah, they had like a vaudeville comedy show on the BBC. Yeah. And then it's, but if you wanted to just basically like...

Are you thinking about Howard Zend here when they meet a lecture? Howard and all these Jonathan Co-books, people are constantly going to like, ooh, somebody's giving a talk on this tonight. Right. It's like, what? How much? I guess that's podcast. I guess so. But it's different when there's an audience and it's on a schedule and then there's a Q&A.

And it's a Q&A. And it's a Q&A. Yeah, it's a Q&A. I like how much money do you think that you would have to be paid to go to like a Mountbatten speech, right? Not a Mountbatten speech, but a similar. Oh, like just like some DOD guy who's just like here's what I think about Bolivia. Yeah. Like a thousand dollars.

Honestly. TV's so good right now. I'm not going. We can put a pin in that because I want to give us a lot of time for Hot Prince. Hot Prince Charles, man. Move over Hot Prince Charles. He's hot Prince Charles. I'm proud of them.

I will say there is like a. Fidelity in the ears. And also, I don't know how much time you've spent listening to tape of Prince Charles talking, the real Prince Charles. I've listened to enough to know that this is just an uncanny voice work. I don't know whether he's an amazing mimic or they just, he got the accent down, but it's really weird. It's like Prince Charles is talking.

This is the biggest question I wanted to ask. Yeah. And you know, you talked about Andrew for a second there, but how hard is it for you to get away from what you know about what becomes of Charles when you're watching in this? this episode. Oh, interesting. I don't even think I'm trying. So I think because so much of this show is based on some sort of knowledge of these people, right? I mean, Queen Elizabeth is globally, like, one of the most famous women alive, right? Just if you think about how many places and, like, for how many years she's been famous. And this family is, I think as Brian Phillips put it in a

recent piece on the ring or like the most famous family in the world. Probably, yeah. Just statistically. So I have always thought that this show is working with at least a really, really basic knowledge of, like, oh, it's Queen Elizabeth. And I think if you know anything else about Queen Elizabeth, you know about Charles and Diana, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So I think that even in the beginning, it's working with the basic knowledge of he was married to Prince Diana and he's not king yet.

Do you think? Yeah. And that's like him not being king yet is all you really have to know when you're watching this like very young, handsome. He's what, like 21 or 22 in this episode? Yeah, I would imagine. Yeah. 19 or 20, yeah. To kind of understand.

So it's 69? 60s. I think it's 69 is the investiture, yes. Okay. Let me ask you a little bit about how these things work, if you can tell me. Why isn't, he can't become king until she dies? Mm-hmm. But her mother is alive and was, and she became, because her father was king and he died.

And he died. And she was the heir. I see. Through the line of succession. And so then she becomes queen. And then there is, I believe, in monarchy, like a mechanism called abdication for someone to step aside and for the next, and to designate their heir as the new king. But as you'll recall from season one, the abdication of. of Elizabeth's uncle, Uncle David, who then becomes the Duke of Windsor, who was also a Nazi, as you recall from season two, perhaps, buried Wallace Simpson.

His abdication is such like a family trauma because it makes her father the king, and he was not supposed to be king, and he was so anxious about it. That's what the king's speech is about. And then Elizabeth, who is never supposed to be queen, as she even says in that unlived life speech. Yeah. They're so obsessed with the abdication and how it never should have happened, and it's a dereliction of duty. So she'll never give it up until she passes away. Basically, they think that she, like, no one thinks she'll ever give it up.

That's why she's on all these horses. Yeah. I just like, do whatever you want. If I taught TV writing, I would show this episode. It's unbelievable. Both because it's so still and nuanced and surprised. and idiosyncratic, and even though it follows a couple of very, like, well-worn tropes about, I mean, it essentially is a mini king speech, you know, and it is a goodwill hunting,

Finding Forrester, kind of like the teacher who unlocked me story. But the evocation of like this seaside Welsh town, it's a college town, the feeling of just these slight little points where you're like, oh, things are changing in the world, like the kid listening to rock music next door to him. the ideas about like national identity underneath a colonial empire it's just so well done and at the heart there is a heart

there is this kit and no matter what you think about royals or Charles or all the bullshit that comes later you kind of just and even if you haven't seen Pater Familius the episode from the second season I think where we see kind of like why he's so fucked up in the first place

because of what he gets put through at boarding schools you're just like oh the guys God, like, this is another one. And it's so tragic because of what we see in Koo, where we see Elizabeth, of all people should know about the unlived life. Yes. But she, you know, it starts so cleverly with the entire family telling Charles that he has to go to Wales.

And, you know, great blocking. He's seated on one side and the entire family is lined up like the establishment against him. And they give the queen the really harsh. kind of unexamined, just like you have to do it sort of dialogue that is extremely reminiscent of what her mother, the role that her mother played in the first two seasons of the crown. And you just kind of see this cycling through generationally. In addition to how familiar as I was really reminded by smoke and mirrors, which is the fifth

episode of this first season, but it's Elizabeth's coronation. And in a lot of ways, this is a mirror episode of it. you know, there is obviously like the ceremonial center piece where someone is like quite literally being crowned and they give this same speech of like my liege of life and lem. In the first season, it's Philip kneeling before Elizabeth to say that, but he doesn't want to. And the tension there is about their relationship and whether she's going to be a queen or a wife or both. And how does she negotiate the two? And in this one, it says is she going to be a mother or a queen?

and is he going to be a son or king? And can those relationships exist? And what does it do to the people in the relationships who are trying to navigate the two things? The answer is nothing good for either of them. But it's so rewarding from a writing and mechanical perspective to look at this episode and look at the first season and kind of see, oh, there are even parts of the speech

that are the same and they are really putting these people in the same places. and it is a generational epic. Yeah, and even the dynamic that's developing between Charles and Anne, where Anne's like, I wish she hated me. Like, I'm too, like, I wish I was enough to scorn, you know, or enough to, I wish I mattered enough for them to, like, make me uncomfortable, but, like, I'm just irrelevant.

Right. So then she just gets to live in, like, a really nice, completely sloppy room, blasting, rescue me and wearing, like, a surf shirt. And taking phone calls from Wales and being like, Lull, I'm not coming to visit you. Like chin up, nobody likes a grumpy guts. Yeah. The relationship between Charles and Midward, I think, is lovely.

His sincere sort of pursuit of understanding the place where he is being forced to rule is quite remarkable to watch. And they also do the thing where at first he knows nothing and is shown to be ignorant and not taking it seriously. Which is also definitely a part of this. And I do think, credit to Josh O'Connor, who plays Prince Charles. And in addition to being hot and having the voice down is really deft with switching between, like, the genial just trying to please Prince Charles and the, like, slightly kind of wounded Prince Charles. Yeah, Bell and Sebastian Prince Charles. Yeah, exactly. He's going through it.

Yeah. He'll continue to go through it, I think. And then, you know, we get to the end. We have basically, you have three scenes that in any other show would be like, oh, that's probably probably as good as we can do, which is essentially the heartwarming, moment where he goes and gives his teacher the British tongue twister's book. You're like, oh, God damn it. And then he goes and sees Mommy. Oh, boy.

And she cuts his head off. That is also, Olivia Coleman has the range, as the kids say, because she goes from just like total blankness to just daggers. Yeah. And what's, I don't remember what he asks, how he asks where he's like, are you talking about the country or my family? And she just goes, no one. And I was like, well, that ends the conversation.

The way, and even like the little line where it's like, she would hope that this could wait until the morning, but if it's absolutely necessary, you can come see her. It's so brutal. I mean, the small details in kind of how weird their life is, he gets home and he has to ask, you know, the doorman, essentially. If he can see his mom. If he can see his mother.

And still has, you know, it's so, so bizarre what these people, how these people conduct, like, what a family is. I noticed that when Sylvia and Ted, I think it's Ted, are sitting in bed after they've had dinner with him, she describes the look on Charles's face when he sees the kid going upstairs with his parents and being like taken care of as shattered, which I think is the same way that Philip describes his reaction to the singing at the funeral. Yeah. And it's just little touches like that where they will bring back a word or bring back a turn of phrase or bring back an image are so effective because you're like, oh, right, when these people come into contact

with real life, they break into pieces. Yeah, they don't really know how to handle it. Yeah. It is really interesting to watch how all of the people around the queen handle it, which is everyone else is letting an emotion and she is kind of receding back into her role, which, you know, it's good. It makes for good tension. I don't know how it's going to go. I think the scene that immediately comes after just the really brutal bedroom scene is Charles doing the aforementioned. Richard the second monologue.

Hollow Crown speech. Which is like Josh O'Connor, feel free to play Richard the second if you want. Yeah, he's incredible in that. It's, I mean, part of me was just kind of like, okay, with like the real Prince Charles ever actually get to do Richard the second and do the hollow crown speech, with Anne and the audience. With Anne and the audience? Like, they don't really put their. lives on display that much. I'm just like, this is a little close. You're probably not allowed to do this. But man, does it work? And it, in a lot of ways, it's just like Peter Morgan borrowing a Shakespeare

thesis to insert in the literal middle of his season to be like, here is what this season is about. And I didn't even rate it, the greatest English writer did. But it still works. It's amazing. Honestly, it made me go read a bunch of the section. What did you learn? Well, you know, I think that, like, Like, Shakespeare is always difficult to just read, you know, and you essentially need, like, someone teaching it to you, and you also need to see it performed at the same time. But I read a couple of readings of that monologue, and it just was reminded that, like, Shakespeare is able to, like, just inhabit the psychology of another person. Yeah. No, it's really well.

In a lot of ways, and poeticized, you know. Invented the way that we understand history and people. Sure. At least in the English language. So shout it to him. Yeah. I got to say, Josh...

Apex Mountain. Yeah, Apex Mountain. Also, to your point about kind of needing to see it perform to really understand it, a tremendous performance of this by Josh O'Connor, where just he really communicates exactly what this means and how it applies, which I don't think everyone could do. I'm curious whether real Prince Charles could do it. Can I put you on the spot? Yeah.

You get to stage a Shakespeare play starring any royal of your choice. What's the play in? who's the person? I guess this is sort of an electrified fence right now in terms of some of these people. Yeah, well, certain people are no longer doing public duties so they won't be a part of it. Of the Amanda Dobbins production. It's also Royal Life. He got retired.

No one gets retired. Well, I just didn't know if you had like, you're fired from the royal family, but he literally got fired from his family, which is 100% deserved. Well, it's like, Peter Morgan's like definitely like, fuck, episode season seven. No, I was thinking about that. I mean, the really obvious. Obvious one is Lear, right? I guess you could do a hamlet with, like, young Prince Charles, but that would just kind of be annoying.

I think he, you know, kind of was writing Mooney letters already. You don't need to give him Hamlet's little quies. Who else? All of them. Could Margaret do anything? Yeah, I mean, Margaret's a great lady Macbeth, right? Yeah. It's interesting that I would gravitate towards the tragedies instead of the history plays.

But the history plays, but I guess they're kind of living in their own history play right now. All right, we can wrap up with Moondust. Okay. Which you and I both love pop culture about this era of space, the space race. Really do. And I thought, again, very effective if you just want to watch it as like, this was very exciting for everybody involved. There are just so many great subtle moments where, like, Tobias Menzies' face when Olivia Coleman tells him, they asked me because I, I'm one of the five people on the planet that they were like, we need your comments to the alien race.

And he's just like, okay. Like, fuck. She gives her speech. Yeah. And then she gives like a very funny well and he's just like one of your best. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I just, I got to say, I thought it was just like a very effective description of a midlife crisis.

Let's talk about Tobias Menzies for a second. Sure. Hitting it out of the park. He is maybe the, I have spoken about hot Prince Charles. and I think that Aaron Doherty, who's playing Princess Anne, I think she's great. And obviously Olivia Coleman is an, you know, Oscar-winning world-renowned actress.

But Tobias Menzies is the really big addition to me in this season. Because I think he's playing the comedy in the right way. And then also the emotional moments, both in Bubbikins, but particularly in this season, in this episode. The monologue they give him at the end, when he's just talking about realizing that the moon needs nothing and he's having a crisis of faith. Yeah. It's, I don't know if you notice they just, it's really on him the whole time because he's just doing an incredible take.

Yes. And he's doing it. He's not going over the top. He's doing it like an uncomfortable guy who's never been in a group therapy session because they're not probably a lot of even don't call it that. It's like a study group. Right. You know. And yeah, I found that scene very moving.

I thought the way in which he manifested all the things that he was doing. I was like, I don't even know that I'm doing this where I'm sort of shushing my wife. And I want this experience to be exactly one way. And then he tries to like throw his royal weight around by asking for an audience with these guys. And everybody's just like, okay, you're a pilot. That's a really great reaction shot when they all cut to Elizabeth and the two advisors just being like, okay. Yeah. And then the detail of those guys having colds.

I know. And just sneezing through his, like, I wanted to tell you about how you and me are alike. And they're just like, sure things. And he's also trying so hard on the interview. I mean, number one, this shot of him writing the questions is just, it's so sweet. It's so heartbreaking. And then he gets there and, like, they're just answering on a very rote level. And he's so deftly moves the question back to what he's trying to ask and is, like, really personable.

I think one thing that Tomias Menzies does really well is kind of shows like the full range of Phillips personality because he can be like a very charming debonair guy that, you know, there's that nice moment between him and Elizabeth. I think it's at the end of coup when he comes in and gets in a tip about Porchie and then instead is going to be like. Come on upstairs. Yeah. Yeah. And then also his kind of his aggressiveness. And the speech that they made him give about dentures in this is like the best. 10 seconds of the funniest 10 seconds of the whole thing because he's really out like he's like

there comes a time in every person's life and you think he's doing like another Mount bad and bayonet speech and he's like when you must wear dentures and you're just like ah these people like they're just like cutting ribbons man are trying so hard yeah I think he's I think he's great and I'm curious what do you think your mood landing would be like what's the thing that I would be so jealous about or no or that you just kind of like affix a lot of emotions that have nothing to do with the actual event itself? That's a really good question. I think when I was younger,

a lot of it was tied up in like baseball and like the baseball Hall of Fame and like the sort of like... Really? Like how young? But like when I was like 13. I think when I first was aware that like... Oh, did you mean like recently? Well, like the middle age crisis is part of this.

I just also didn't know about like 13 year old Chris being really into the baseball hall of fame. What were you angry about? Oh, I mean, I think I was becoming. aware of my relationship with my father. You know what I mean? So you become self-aware that like your parents are people. Yeah, yeah.

And then like you have like certain things that you can connect with them over. And then like all of a sudden this thing that I like liked became like a much bigger deal because it was like a way to speak to my dad. Yeah. But these days, shit. I guess I think all of us probably think about politics this way now. It's what I was thinking in my mind. You know, like the news is become like why is all of my emotion. tied up in the campaign and the climate and, you know, homelessness and everything where it's like

in a way that I don't remember it being the case 20 years ago, you know. And I need to meet this person who represents all these things that I haven't been able to accomplish or change in the world, but like helps me believe. Yes. Who's to stand in for faith? Right. Because I think you're right. And then all like the mental calculations I've been making over the last year of like,

this is, it's going to be okay. And it's like, it's not going to be okay. And that's okay because I'm just admitting that this is where we are going. And all like the sort of devil's bargains you make in your head. Yeah, it's very funny. I watched this episode with my husband because he has also really enjoyed Philip this season. And I was like, you got to come watch this one with me. And I asked him what his – actually, no.

He really related to it. I don't think I'll mind me telling this. He was like, I really relate to this. He was like, what do you think my moon landing is? And I was like, it's definitely the Philadelphia Eagles. Oh, I was going to say – we don't need to make this of your husband a podcast. The fact that I had another answer is really – dark.

Because I was going to say golf. Oh, yeah. Well, I think that's similar. Yeah. I mean, it's all athletic. Yeah. But it's for me too. I mean, yeah.

Sports are like that, though. I just feel like if I arranged a visit of like Carson Wentz and help me out with two other Eagles guys, Nelson Aguilore. Miles Sanders. And I was like, what I have done with all of my achievements in the world is like arranged for these three guys to come talk to Zach for 15 minutes. And then they just like looked at their phones, sneezed and then asked him where he got his pants.

Yeah. And I'd be like, do you like to go shooting? And then he'd just be like the mysteries of the universe are not been solved. I think we can trust that your husband would not be looking at Carson Wentz to answer the mysteries of the universe. I honestly, sometimes I don't know. Okay, so that's five through seven. Yeah. Amazing pieces of television.

I really love how this season sort of has like, it's not only is it like its own thing, it's also very clearly a very sustainable series now. And a lot of shows that I watch are all. often like, fuck, we have to keep making this. Totally. Or we just don't, like, the story is only supposed to be this. And to see a show, we always kind of like speculated, like, oh, what would happen if they just kept making madmen?

But, like, Don Draper wasn't at the, you know. And then it becomes the Peggy story. And then there was, like, another person. And then there was another person. Could you do that if there was some continuity between the, and obviously, like, they decided not to. And they did quite a few Mad Men. So as many as I'm assuming that Peter Morgan plan.

I'm making crown. But it is quite remarkable to be like, oh, wow, I completely see how you guys are going to do this now, where it's like young Charles is a thing and Anne is a thing. And this is how Elizabeth is in this show now, even though Olivia Coleman is the biggest star on the show. Right. And it does also that idea, if you know even the most basic British history, you know what's coming. You know that at some point Princess Diana is going to have to show up, which will give it new life and is a totally new era that a lot of people have familiar. with.

Yeah. You know that Maggie Thatcher's coming up. Gillian Anderson, yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, I'm really curious to see where season six is and whether they add a season seven because, like, the drama is still going. Yes. Yeah, that's the thing.

And whether or not, I guess by that point it would be if they do it every two years and this is season three, so 2022 for four, 24 for five and 26 for six. Yeah. It would be like pretty far past Megan and Harry. Right. You know, if you were going to do stuff like that. Yeah. All right, Amanda will be back on Monday and we'll talk about the last few episodes of season three. I really enjoyed these conversations.

Me too. Thank you, Chris. Today's episode of The Watch was brought to you by Watchmen. Can't get enough of HBO's Watchmen. Now you can go deeper inside the critically acclaimed new series with the official Watchman podcast, hosted by Watchman executive producer and writer Damon Lendeloff, and Craig Mays and the creator of Chernobyl. The new podcast explores narrative choices, uncovers Easter eggs,

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