The Watch - Kate Winslet on the 'Mare of Easttown' Finale and Becoming the Titular Mare | Bonus Episode

Episode Date: June 1, 2021

For the second time, Chris and Andy are joined by Kate Winslet to talk about the 'Mare of Easttown' finale reveal, what it meant to her to embody Mare, and acting with an ensemble cast. Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Guest: Kate Winslet Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I need sports to have to clear the room. Stand up and walk now. Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at the ringer.com and joining me on the other line, the comptroller of East Town. It's Andy Greenwald. Oh, you thought we were done?

We're back for a neighbor days, baby. Back at it again because Kate Winslet is back on the podcast. Not words that I thought I would say ever in my life, but Andy and I were absolutely delighted to say that Kate Winslet is joining us on the podcast today for a special bonus episode of the watch where we talked about

Mary of Eastown. And the finale and everything. So clearly you should finish the show before you listen to this. Yeah, she spoils it like the first question. If you don't know that. We didn't even ask and she just said who did it. Some backstory here.

This was surreal because usually when new shows happen or things that were interested in, Chris or I will reach out to the relevant parties. Maybe it's from a network we've worked with before or a studio or whatever. And we'll get them on the show. In this case, I think that

We were so excited about the premiere of mayor back in April when we got to see a screener of it that we communicated that to HBO. And they kindly made Kate available for us for a limited amount of time during her press day, a moment that I felt that I ruined by asking her to say Hoogie. That gets covered today. And then that was it. And then, you know, as you guys heard on Sunday night, we were thrilled to welcome the show's creator Brad Inglesby on for a wrap up. Because generally we, I think we've kind of done that in the past, like star in the beginning and then show. Showrunner at the end. And then we found out that among our loyal listeners, thanks to all of you, was one Kate Winslet

over the last few weeks, and that she personally would like to come back on the podcast, which, you know, sometimes, look, let's be honest, sometimes Jason Van Zuckus is like, I want to come back on the podcast and we're like, you know, not this week. Yes. But not, first of all, let me stop by saying that's not true. But we would never say that to Jason. But we were shocked. we were delighted and of course we said yes.

Kate was amazing to talk to. Obviously a character that has like, still has its claws in her a little bit. Like I think it's still like it lives with her and it was really cool to talk to her. Yeah, I think it was probably, I think what surprised us the most was that, and you guys will hear this momentarily, just how deep into this world and this character she still is,

how emotional and raw a lot of it still is. We were really grateful that she shared a lot of that with us. I think it's also worth saying, as is often the case with interviews like this, is that when we finished the interview, then we saw another side of our interviewee, and we got to laugh and joke around a little bit more, which was great for us.

So, obviously, we will get back into it next week with our deep dive of the film The Reader and also maybe a rewatchable's of heavenly creatures because I just want to be clear that when Oscar winners ask to come on our show, it doesn't affect us. You know what I mean? Like our spines are straight,

our moral compass is true. we're doing a three-episode re-watch of the Bureau, imagining Kate Winslet as all the different characters in the bureau. Kate Winslet, reading Larry McMurtry audiobooks, whatever you want to do on this feed. Let's get into our interview with Kate Winslet regarding the finale of Mayor of East Town in the entire season. So I need you guys to know that I have actually been listening to you every week.

This is disturbing for us. No, don't be. You've made so much sense that you've just been amazing, really. thank you. You've been so on it and articulate. And I've just loved your, like, your film knowledge. And you've just been, honestly, you've been brilliant. It's the only thing I've, like, followed.

I haven't, because I don't have social media. So I've not really followed anything. Oh, I had a fun moment when Stephen King was like. Oh, yeah. Because he had a theory, right? Yes. But then he, I don't know what his theory actually ended up being. He was like, I have a theory.

I'll tell you later. What's his theory that it was Ryan? I think it was that it might have been Lori. I can't remember what it was. I have to go back and look. At the end there, there were so many theories

being thrown around that it was essentially every single character was up under the lights. Including the turtle. Including the turtle. We wanted to begin. I mean,

we are so shocked and honored that you joined us again because frankly, I have to confess something to you. I was sure that we were never going to have this opportunity again because when you were kind enough to speak to us in April,

not knowing who we were, a busy day promoting this new show, unclear on what the reception would be. Your handler emerged to say, thank you very much, guys. Kate has to move on. Oh my God, you just said handler. You need to change that.

Sorry. I'm not a dog. No, you're... See, I've done it again. This is all... It's not the Mayflower dog show, people. Come on. There was a lovely person,

a public relations executive, no doubt. Yeah. Who emerged to say, fellows, you're done. And I interrupted her, which I never do, to ask you to please say, Hogi again. And I realized later, probably in therapy, that that was coming from a deep place.

It was borderline weird. And I'm so sorry about that. And thank you for forgiving us clearly by coming back. No, it's absolutely fine. I'm thrilled to be able to come back. And, you know, I have to be honest, it has been extraordinary keeping the secret about Ryan and going through press and not being able to say anything and I mean and not just keeping a secret from press or hoping to God someone didn't let something slip but also keeping it from family like my husband had read every episode but my two teenagers who are really film savvy cool individuals I share everything about my job with them they're 17 and 20 years old and I just couldn't tell them anything I didn't tell them anything and so when I sat with them and we watched a rough cut of episode seven I was like I was ugly

crying. Just like the relief that this was something I could share with them. I first read episode seven in June 2018. Wow. So it was just strange. It was a strange burden. And I've never had anything like that before. I've never been part of something where the twist is so so shrouded in secrecy, you know, and that everything could go horribly wrong should someone reveal it. I mean, it's a really highly pressured emotion, I have to say. So I wanted to be able to talk to you again, because also I know I'm sure you've got really cool questions for me, no pressure.

Well, yeah, I mean, we could start with you. I need to get my handler. He's just off screen. We could start with the ending then, because I was curious for you as both a performer in the piece, but also a producer of the piece, what's a satisfying conclusion? And are they different for the two roles?

you know, when you decide like, okay, so Ryan is going to be where this all ends up, but obviously there's also like this emotional moment of mayor sending the attic ladder. For you, was there any kind of different hat to wear in each role as somebody who is sort of coming to this project and shepherding it, but also performing in it? You know, I was constantly playing the both roles. I really was in terms of, you know, with my producer hat on and my mayor hat on. And sometimes the two, you know, those lines would get very, very blurred, but in ways that were only ever, I think, helpful for everybody.

Like, for example, with all of our younger actors, they were all so excited to be part of the show. And I knew as cast number one, an executive producer, you know, it was my responsibility to show up and, not only show up and deliver every single second of every day, but to make everyone else feel confident and able to excel, in their jobs. And I remember being a young actor and knowing full well that whenever I felt confident or someone gave me those words of encouragement or a pat on a back or just like a steady

hand to just like push me on my way, I definitely know I performed better. I did better work. It was more thoughtful. It was more focused and the fear disappeared. So I very much saw it as my job to really integrate all of those actors into our story and to make sure they felt that they had the space and the time to fully explore their characters and try everything and most importantly to make mistakes because often with younger actors in particular when they make mistakes or they flood dialogue actually some of the most beautiful spontaneous things can happen so so i was constantly playing the two roles but just to your point about the ending we were back and forth a lot about like hang on does it feel like there are going to be two endings you know if we end on the kitchen

floor with Laurie and Mayor, that crushing heartbreaking scene, is the show over? Is it? And right up to the 11th hour, we did not know if we were going to use Mayor going into the attic or not. We didn't know. Obviously, we have to have Mayor and Laurie. So it was always, well, maybe we're not going to have Mary in the attic, maybe we'll just ditch it. And I remember Craig Zobel and I having a conversation on set as we were shooting going into the attic and he was like, do you think we're really going to we need this? Are we really going to, is this really going to stay? And we say, well, you know, maybe not.

You know, let's just, let's just shoot it anyway. And if we don't need it, you know, we can just decide later. But I love the fact that we kept it, I have to say. And for this reason, and I have thought about it a lot. You know, I think one of the reasons why, or part of the reason why audiences have overwhelmingly connected with this character and with this story, is that so many of us have been touched by grief and tragedy in some form in our lives, myself included.

And the process of grief and the complicated set of emotions that come hand in hand with that, you can't articulate, you can't describe. And there is a woman who feels, you know, she's not uneducated, but she feels as though she just doesn't have the words for stuff. And when it comes to grief, you don't have to have. the words for stuff. You just have to wait for the moment when you can process whatever the hell it is that you're feeling and the guilt and the pain and the anguish that comes hand in hand with that and the roaring fear that confronting that grief is going to bring you to your knees

all over again. And we all know what that feels like. And so to get there to a place where she feels brave enough to go up into that attic and to at least, least perhaps start to confront it a little bit. It's a huge deal. This is a show about human emotions, about community, about things that happen to real people. You know, the fact that it's Ryan. It's Ryan who killed Erin. I have teenagers, you know, I know so many mothers who have teenagers, you know, mothers the world over. We know that those years, those teenage years are so, They're almost as fragile as when your child is a toddler and you're worry that they're going to trip over something and, you know, bash their face and be permanently disfigured. Teenage years are vulnerable and fragile and you tip the balance or they're getting with the wrong crowd or you meet the wrong person or they make that one bad decision.

And it can alter the course of their life as it does in our show forever. And so I think leaving mayor, leaving the show on mayor going into the attic, it does at least. leave the audience with that feeling of hope. Something okay may come out of all this trauma. I don't think I've ever just spoken without drawing breath for quite as long as I just did. I'm sorry about that. Feel free to edit me down. Absolutely not. Podcast is the correct medium for that. It was beautifully said. And not only that, you're clearly a veteran of this podcast, a perfect segue, because I did want to ask specifically about that point. It was without question the right ending. for the show. And I think it really helped center what the creators, you, Brad, Craig, everyone,

what your priorities were in the piece. And this is something, maybe you heard us say this with Brad, but I was really struck at the end by how the show was truly centrally about kindness. And in Brad's word, Brad added the word mercy to that, you know, and forgiveness. And I found that very powerful. And I found that surprising, mainly because I feel like a decade plus of darkness-drenched prestige television or maybe just the last four years of life on earth have kind of broken our brains a little bit about what's going to happen, what should happen, what entertainment is even doing for us. And I was so happy to have this show as a corrective. You know, people have said to me, oh, it's dark. And yes, there are very dark things in it.

But my experience watching, it was not a dark experience without trying to go paragraph for paragraph with you, I guess somewhere in there is the question I'd like to ask you about it, which was that central spine, which was so brilliantly highlighted at the end, that emerged finally at the end, that this was a journey of redemption in a way and that the characters were going to be treated with kindness. There wasn't a, you know, Helen didn't suddenly die at the end. There wasn't, there wasn't, more punishment from here. How crucial was that to your attachment to the project, your involvement in it and your championing of it? Well, I think, you know, it's interesting when I come to talk about

now and the experience of having played her and what she meant to me because I, you know, I have to be honest, like, it's hard for me to talk about in many ways because I almost don't know what happened to me. I know that sounds like, I mean, I really don't want to make it sound like I, I don't want to fall into like actor speak or babble or something, but I have really honestly never played a wrong. role where the role really took over. And I felt a little like she became like an alter ego in a great

way. My husband would beg to differ. But I, something else happened. And my, the lovely dialect coach I've worked with since Titanic, Susan Hegarty, she's absolutely brilliant. And I remember her saying to me one day, oh, she was telling me something, she was telling me something about something that had happened in the news. And it was a very sad and awful thing. And I turned to her and I just said, Susan, please, we are dealing with so much hard stuff. We have to talk about something that's not hard and sad. Please, just tell me what you had for breakfast. She looked to me and she said, Kate, I've just never seen this happen to you where you have just, you've just sort of vanished.

And the biggest challenge for me in playing there was that I had to vanish. I had to, you know, I did all the work, I did all the prep, all the stuff that, you know, yes, the Delco dialect, it was hard, it was horrible, you know, it drove me crazy. But actually, that was just one part, really, of many bigger parts of putting this piece together and the layering of this character, just quite honestly. And the hardest part, really, was that, you know, people have a lot of preconceived ideas about who I am. I was in Titanic, you know, I've done period films.

The fact that actually I have really, in reality, done that many things. period films, but because I'm British, people assume that I do them all the time. So I knew that I had to, I had to push beyond assumption first off. And how do you do that? Well, you just really, really make yourself invisible and disappear into that character. So every aspect of playing her almost became an obsession. And then I had to make it just disappear. So you just see Mare. Hopefully, you just see Mare. But one thing I did say, just back to your question, one thing that I did feel very strongly when I read the script was that this is a community of people who absolutely do at the end of the day have each other's backs. And, you know, that is a very important thing

in life for me, and I'm sure it is for most of us. It's a complicated community filled with people who struggle and suffer day in, day out. But it's a place that has its own rhythm, shared rhythm, shared histories that these neighbours have with one another, you know, and to be honest, I did, I grew up like that. It seems so hard for people to really believe this, but it's honestly true. I grew up in a house with paper thin walls. We can hear the neighbours on both sides, the absolute detail of the arguments that they were having late at night. You know, if, if so-and-so down the road was off her medication, her bipolar medication and had been seen running naked in the garden, the entire street knew about it. Like, I grew up. I grew up.

in a place like that one. And what was so wonderful and so important to me about our show is that not only does it capture the realities of a small community, but it really treats those people, I think, kindly, as you say, and with respect, you know, and you can't use the term white trash ever, because these are hardworking, you know, people who are trying to get along, trying to. have a decent life and trying in some way, whether they're succeeding or failing, to be good people, you know, and this is a story in which something goes horribly, horribly, horribly, horribly wrong. But there was an honesty and a sincerity to the town of East Town that Brad Ingallsby created.

And it was just so firmly rooted in reality that it really overwhelmed me and really moved me, right away when I first read the scripts. One of the things that's amazing is to get to the end of this and to look back on the totality of the show. So rather than going week to week and just kind of almost being really obsessed with the mystery of it, which I think is when you make your first pass through the show, that's your experience of it, is like you can't help it get distracted

by like, who did it, who did it, who did it? Is this a red herring? Is this person? But then when I look back and I think about, you know, you were talking about the attic scene and including the latter, like when you live, look back at all the scenes in that house knowing what mare is experienced in that house, it changes even comic scenes in that house. It kind of explains why mares in a bad mood every time she enters. You know, think about what she's going back into that house. So I was curious

whether or not you and my favorite scenes are the ones where it's you and members of your family or friends that are kind of interacting in that kitchen and in that house. How much did you and the other performers talk about the character histories that might not be on screen? Because it felt like you and Jean or you and Julianne or you and David all had almost like a complete knowledge of your characters lives together. Because we did. We really honestly did. And that was incredibly incredibly important. I mean, every character that Mayer meets on screen, you know, every single one of those characters, I'd created a history with like Brianna. I just didn't like her. I'd never fucking liked her. Like she was just one of those, you know, like my friend Patty had this kid who was like, not a nice kid. I just, there was something about Brianna that I decided Mayer just had never actually really liked it at all. And so figuring that out with McKenzie, who plays Brianna, that was really fun.

But every single one of our actors, we would have these conversations and build those stories. So, for example, Laurie and Mayor, we actually decided they'd probably had gone to kindergarten together. And so really had just known each other all. the way through and that we figured out a story for when Mayor met Frank and Laurie had a different boyfriend at that time, but eventually she stumbled across John and maybe Frank actually had gone to a school a couple of towns over and then they ended up going to the same school together. So we had this whole history. But the creation of the most important backstories were obviously Mayor and Helen and Mayor specifically and Chivorne and how complicated Chavonne's life

would have always been quite quickly in terms of bearing witness to things that were difficult and challenging, being afraid of her brother, which I'm sure she probably would have done in the way that Mayor admits that she for sure was with the therapist. The therapist says, did he scare you ever? And she says, sometimes. But the history between Mayor and Helen was, it was very, very detailed, very detailed. because Mayor had clearly a, she clearly had a very close relationship with her father, a very unique bond and she was absolutely daddy's girl. And I decided that she kind of didn't really need mothering. She'd never really needed a mother. So as a consequence, Helen never ultimately really knew how to parent her anyway, because she had this separate, really nice relationship with the husband who let us remind ourselves, Helen always felt sort of disappointed by, confused by,

and didn't know how to cope with. You know, she sent him out of the house whenever he would sink, whenever he'd go off and stay with his brother in Drexel Hill. You know, this was how she managed the circumstances that she found herself in. And all of that would of course have rubbed off on there. And then when her father, as she reveals in that therapy scene, shot himself, I had an entire thing around that. They were supposed to go to a daddy and daughter dance that night. She was 13 years old and it was on that day. And so she always felt as though she felt like she was enough.

But he had done that on that very special day. She had a special outfit cap. And it wasn't enough. It wasn't enough. And so that became a very extremely accessible, trauma that I built into the character and then had to sort of bury

and tuck away but when it comes up in therapy it's all right there hopefully so you feel that that's it's real it's not just lines on a page but it was all very very detailed

that's amazing a lot of work that went into the backstories it had to you know these are people we had to we had to sort of treat them absolutely like people who'd lived complete lives. It's incredible to hear that because it's not just present in the therapy scenes.

It's present in a scene I specifically wanted to highlight in this time that we had with you, which was the restaurant scene post the tuxedo roasting in the finale. And this is, it's mayor, Helen, and Chavon at a table. And it's just an extraordinary scene. And it's a beautiful scene in execution. It's also incredible in its restraint on behalf of both the writing and the performances. And I guess I just wanted, if you'd be willing to talk us through that scene a little bit and how all that shared history was able to play out on screen, but nonverbally. You know, I think that particularly in that scene is also such a highlight reel for what Chris and I and many others loved about your performance, because I think often those of us who aren't in the profession highlight moments of activity and speaking, you know, a look at her good acting there because she's declaring something or delivering a speech.

And this scene, at least from, you know, our yeoman's perspective, is much more about. receiving, listening and receiving and not doing. And yet it is absolutely devastating because of all the things that are not said. Well, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's the one moment, isn't it, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, have, have any conversation that is sits on the fringes of honesty and real emotion about what they went through, not just with Mayor's father, but also with Kevin. I remember that day very, very vividly. It was Craig Zobel.

Craig Zobel came on as our director after Gavin O'Connor, for scheduling reasons. Gavin was not able to stay with us, and Craig stepped in, and actually we filmed that scene quite early on in Craig's schedule, and it was the first scene that he had to figure out how to direct little Izzy King, who plays Drew. He just kept saying to me,

please help me, please help me. It'll be fine. Once he gets into the groove and he knows that this is the family, this is the TV family, and he would just do it. I mean, he would just, he would just go into it. You know, hey, pop, pop, will you please play with me? Nana, can you fix my band-a? I mean, he was absolutely brilliant, this little boy and he would forget about the camera. He was amazing. So Craig was, there was a general sort of feeling of like, got a lot of nerves around that scene, I think, partly because it was early on for Craig. We had a lot to get done that day, and also for Jean,

she was slightly dreading, I think, that scene, because there's nothing worse for an actor when you read a scene on a page and it says, she starts talking, tearing up now or breaks down. Thanks, Brad.

And now I've got to do like the big emotional thing. And it becomes a strange psychological pressure. So we rehearsed it at the table and and Jean just said, oh, can I just save the lines for me, actually film it? And so I could,

and I knew her well enough at that point to know that as soon as the camera rolled on her coverage of the scene, that she would just kind of pop, and which she totally did. But actually, what I hadn't counted on was how emotional I would feel in response to that. And that was not actually scripted.

It was just mayor kind of going, oh God, I can't deal with all this emotion, and I'm just going to go for a P. and just getting up and leaving. But it became, of course, it became something else because it's Mer and Helen starting to kind of emotionally crack open in front of one another. And having never, ever done that as women,

and certainly not when there was younger, you know, it would have been, it would have been a full on not allowed in that house to get upset about stuff. You know, it really had its place. It had its moment. moment of quiet and and regret and pain and sadness

and you know, all of those things. And there's Chavonne and Gary who played Chavon so brilliantly. And I thought she was wonderful in that scene. Yeah. You know, just just being that sort of almost innocent bystander but having no clue how she's supposed to navigate this world between her mother, a very difficult mother and her probably even more difficult

grandmother. It's a three-person scene without question. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. And I and Gowery just, she just was so, she was just so steady and did so little to the point that it was more than enough. And that's one of the hardest things to do in response to a big emotional scene like that is judging how to do just a little bit. It sometimes doesn't need more. And it just, it came together. And I am very proud of that scene actually, because it was quite hard to do. It was, I mean, a lot of day players. We had a lot of a lot of extras that day.

And it was just busy and frantic. And somehow in the corner, we were, you know, shooting one of the biggest emotional moments. Certainly episode seven, but possibly even the whole show. But, you know, you just, you just roll with it, you know?

So, yeah. I wanted to ask you about another one of my favorite moments. I know we only have for a few more minutes. But, you know, when you were doing the bar scene with Evan Peters, because we didn't get a chance to ask you about Evan Peters, when you first came on, and obviously we didn't know the trajectory of his character, but when you're doing the bar scene

with Evan Peters, and he's doing flawless, drunken acting, but also flawless drunken acting with a Delco accent. Are you thinking this must have been what it's like to see Olivier do Hamlet? Like, are you just like, oh my God? I was so impressed with him.

And actually, but to be part of that scene with him, quite honestly, and I loved Evan. We got along, so we, we, I mean, we all got along so well. Like, we didn't have a difficult actor. There was no, you know, sometimes there can be one actor who the other actors are like, a little bit challenging, just get through it. You know, but we didn't have, there was no one like that.

None. Everyone was amazing. And Evan, Evan was so terrified that he was going to screw that scene up. He was terrified. And after every take, he'd say, kill me, kill me. Just get me an acting coach. He kept saying to me, get me a coach. Tell me, just tell me what to do.

Why don't you tell me exactly what to do? Because you will know all the things I don't know. And if I'm bad, just lie. Just lie. And I'm like, Evan, stop. You know, just stop torturing yourself. It's, it's, and I didn't want to say to him, it's perfect. It's perfect.

It's perfect. Because then that can sometimes stop an actor from exploring other avenues within the scene. You know, if you say, you've got it. You've nailed it. You know, so I just kept saying, it's absolutely, you're totally doing it. You're doing all of it. Just just keep doing more of it. Just keep going, keep going, keep going. But yeah, he hated himself. He was just beside himself. And Craig and I were like, what are we going to do? He's like, hates himself and doesn't want to ever act again. Or Evan, he just, but I got the sense, you know, I haven't said this out loud to anyone yet. I really, really haven't.

And, you know, call Evan and check this. But I got the sense from Evan that he was always just a little bit terrified of me. And I'm very good at, I like to think, I'm very good at putting people absolutely at their ease. But I will confess that for the first few weeks of our shoot, I did let him be just a little bit scared. You factored them a little bit. I did a little bit. And I'm not method. Well, I like, I don't like, I mean, I like to think I'm not method. I'm sure there are people around me who would beg to differ on that one.

But I don't, anyway, you know, I do my own whatever the hell I do. I just get on with it. But I don't manipulate other actors, never. But actually, I did realize, hmm, it's no bad thing. Can I keep him on his toes? Yeah. Is it a bit, yeah, maybe it's quite good.

Oh, that's quite good for Maren Zabel, isn't it? Because he's supposed to be really scared of me. And I just thought, oh, you know, it's actually fine. I'll be nice to him later. If he just feels a bit freaked out now, that's going to be good for his character and my character. I just, I've never done that before ever. never ever done that before.

Four zero. Yeah. And I was poor saves. Poor Zabes. But we really, I mean, yeah, we, we were, we were partners. You know, we, yeah, he was just fantastic. It's so fantastic. I love working with him.

So, Kate, you referred to reading the finale three years ago this month. Obviously, your involvement in the show predates that from reading the first episode and agreeing to sign on. You went into this very intense production, played this character so deeply and so brilliantly, a production that was interrupted. So you had to somehow. carry on, hold the character within you, return and do it again, months later at premieres, and now people are as in love with her in the show as you were. This is a vague and general question,

but we're just getting the sense from how much this has affected you as a person and as a performer. How are you now? Where are you now? How do you feel different having gone through this? I mean, now it has all been seen. It's all been received. You can talk about it. How much of mayor goes with you as you approach future roles or just, you know, future Zoom. calls. That's such a nice question to be asked. You know, look, it's, I always really shy away from, I think, fully, really, truly answering a question like that one, because at the end of the day, acting is my job, you know, it's just pretending, right? So you just go to work and you pretend, and sometimes it's hard and it hurts and it's painful. But ultimately, you go home and, you know,

you sleep in a nice comfy bed and wake up and have a great coffee and go to work. You're like, it shouldn't, there should be no part of my answer to your question that is in any way, I don't know, laden with challenge and strife and struggle. But here's the honest answer. I am okay now, but I was not okay. I definitely, I definitely did suffer a bit of playing this part. I did. I'll be honest, I really did. And a lot of the reason I think for that is just simply that when you have to understand so much about mental health, and listen also, I have my stuff,

I have my own stuff too, and I won't go into any of that. But when you have to really truly consume as much information about grief, suicide, mental illness, and living and breathing around these people and hanging out in opioid districts and working with undercover narcotics people and, you know, there are things that you hear and that you see that you can never unhear or unsee. And sometimes that does leave a little bit of something on your soul. and it left a lot of something on mine in this case. And yeah, I have had to do some stuff to move beyond it and get rid of it. And I'm almost there.

I'm almost there. But it definitely, like, it was almost a bit like not acting in a funny way because just something else that happened. And it's only really now that I'm kind of realizing that, I think, and processing it and feeling okay, talking about it too, you know, because it can sound a bit indulgent, you know. I haven't experienced the loss of a loved one by suicide. I haven't, but, but, but, but I wanted to get as close to understanding that as I could so that those who have suffered in that way, at least felt seen and held and respected. Yeah. I don't know what else to say. Thank you for saying all of it to us.

I mean, we are so honored to talk to you twice. We are freaked out to know that you were listening. Don't be. You did great, you guys. Honestly, it's just been brilliant. But you zabled us a little bit because you could have gotten in our heads. And now you can tell us we did a good job and we appreciate it. You did a brilliant job.

The show was so meaningful to us and so many people. Yeah, thank you so much. It's awesome. So much fun to watch and be able to talk to you about it. Thank you. Thank you so much, guys. Thank you.