The Watch - ‘Landman’ is Back! Plus, ‘Pluribus’ Episode 3 and ‘Poker Face’ Searches for a New Home

Episode Date: November 17, 2025

Chris and Andy talk about the news that Rian Johnson is shopping around ‘Poker Face’ with Peter Dinklage replacing Natasha Lyonne in the wake of its Peacock cancellation (7:21). Then they react to the set photos from the upcoming ‘The Legend of Zelda’ movie (18:43), before discussing the premiere of ‘Landman’ Season 2 (25:31) and ‘Pluribus’ Episode 3 (44:56). Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel here for full episodes of The Watch and so much more! Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Producers: Kaya McMullen and Kai Grady Additional Video Supervision: Donald LoBianco Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hello, and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at the ringer.com and joining me in the studio in Karen Bass's Los Angeles. It's Andy Greenwald. Feels great. Feels great to be back in a rainy city. Brought to you by an atmospheric river.

Brought to you by Kai McMullen and Kai Grady. We are back in L.A. where we do some of our best work. We do some of our work. We do some of our work. Definitely. It's young hobnob and the Jammie Dodger. We've returned from England.

Did this just come to you? Yeah, I guess. It's pretty good. I like hob knobs. I love hobnabs. How do you feel about chocolate and orange flavors? Yeah. Isn't that, Jaffa cakes?

Jaffa cakes. Yeah, I'm not a big guy. I don't get it. A big time biscuit person. But we got Paddington, straight from Peru. That's my guy. Straight from London, CR. I don't know.

Straight from birth. Oh, yeah. Happy birthday, King. Today's Chris's birthday. He's being modest. I think I've potted a lot on my birthday. Do you think? Does your birthday always go a day later, right, every year, right?

Except for leap year when it skips another day. I feel like I've potted a lot in my birthday historically, but I pot a lot, so that would figure, you know? Do you remember some of your greatest birthday pods? No, I'll have to have, that would be a new project. Do you remember any of your pods? Because I don't. Andy was very nice. He got me this incredible T-shirt.

It says Philadelphia basketball, and it is a image. Of a meniscus. Of Joel and Beads meniscus. we're going to hope that that means that like those days are behind him and he has a regenerative. It's fun because when I got that t-shirt, we were just in the glory days of like VJ Edgecombe and like Joe looks pretty good. And then between the time this arrived and me giving it to you on your birthday, his other knee has now gone a bit wonky. Yeah, I mean. But shout out, by the way, to the artist, at Heavy Slime.

On Instagram. On Instagram, Eric Kenny, who I discovered because he designed a bespoke dark hearts t-shirt. for the production of task. Did he really? He did. His stuff's really sick. I really recommend it. At heavy slime.

One thing about you. Yeah. You don't gatekeep. So, okay, so you want to talk about that? We figured, so first of all, Chris looks great on his birthday. It's these shades of Eagles Green that I really appreciate. Yeah, for Nacobi. And the sweater you got from a lovely Japanese boutique store by Borough Market in London called Jackman,

a place that I have shoped, where I have shopped. Yes. And I was so excited to direct you there, and it worked out. Yeah, and I dapped you up. I said, that was a great recommendation, dude. And so what you pointed out, though, was that while I don't gatekeep, I insist on Columbusing. Yes.

Which is a very specific, very specific thing. Most of our text message threads are you being like, holy shit, have you heard this? And me screenshoting the six week ago thing of me being like, you really like this. I love it, you know? And you're like, look! It's geese. No, no. The band.

In my defense on the topic of geese. Also, geese is now, I claim no, like. Sports guy dropping geese refs. I saw that. Yeah. They're everywhere, you know. Would you care to comment on that? I think that's great that Bill's getting back into contemporary music.

My thing about geese wasn't that I was discovering them. It was more that I understood the assignment with this record that I needed to focus in an old school way. that I couldn't just like in between my daughters being like, I really like cat's eye and the marias. I could like drop in and out of it. I needed to be exactly where I was on Friday. You could throw Trinidad on on the school run? No.

I was trying to, I did actually spend some time wondering how I would set it up. Yes. Do you know what I mean? Considering that what's the refrain, there's a bomb in my car. Yeah. Which was a plot point in USA's short live television show Breyer patch. My children saw the trailer for that show five or six years ago, and one of my daughters says that that traumatized her.

Really? Yes, which is why I declined a second season. Ultimately, because family first. Anyway, the perfect time to really get into that geese record was coming off of six weeks of work in London, three hours of sleep, and some smoke chalk stream trout at the lounge at Heathrow. just like I am in a little bubble now

and I'm going to go listen to the bards of Brooklyn friends Did you watch much on the flight home? I always love to get your updates where you're like Oh you did, you watch materialists, that's right. You were texting me. Which camera's mine? Guys, I'd like to speak on behalf of six months ago and say, woof.

I kind of enjoyed it. With the charisma she brought to Madam Webb comes. Yeah, I watched that. But then I also did, because, you know, I'm always, about the pod. So I was watching Pluribus. I was catching up with Down Cemetery Road. Yeah, I was doing, I was putting in numbers. We have a good show for you today. I think it's a great show, but a lot of that depends on how we, how we interact with each other rather than what we talk about, you know? Oh, isn't that

always the case? We are talking about the season premiere, the second season of Landman today. Happy birthday. Thanks. You're fucking welcome. And we're also talking about the third episode of Pluribus, Grenade. So, spoilers for both. of those episodes, but first some news, not personal news. I feel pretty good, you know. You seem great. I don't feel a day older than 46, to be honest. Is that because, oh no, it's the opposite. You are actually deep into your 48th year because of you're still on Greenwich meantime, like I am. That's right. I have to say, I don't feel deterred by my last two weeks in London in terms of like the drinking. Honestly, the smoking. I'm, you know, I hope my health insurance

isn't listening. I'm sure they're only just scanning it. They probably watch it on YouTube. I think I still have my like, I still, I have an electric arm. You know what I mean? The ball still comes out. Nobody knows where it's going, kind of like golf, you know? No, it's not, it's not just that. You can just play pickup and get back into it. You know what I mean? Like, you're the Brandon Graham of this. Some thought you retired six months ago and you were like, you know what? I would like to go back to live fire. Like, I want in. I went back on Thursdays. Yeah.

My time in the beautiful United Kingdom was rich and rewarding. Yeah. And I'm going back very soon. But I learned a lot about myself and a lot about my limits. And you and your lovely wife showed up and you showed me that it's all. There are no limits. It's no limit. You are Bradley Cooper in the movie about limits.

You are unbelievable. You guys are able to just dig deep and become young again. When I was like, ah, I will move my body with the rhythm and alacrity of a 21-year-old me in Manhattan. Yeah. And then I was like, what is this pain radiating from my hips into my liver that just makes me feel sad? Or is it the other way around? It's liver into hips. What do we want to do today?

Well, we have a couple of news items that we wanted to catch up on. The most interesting one, I think, for conversational purposes, is the poker face news. Now, this was a show that we discussed fairly in depth in the first season. the Natasha Leon mystery, an homage to Colombo that was on Peacock. It came from Ryan Johnson. He was very hands-on in the first season, is my understanding, and the second season, perhaps a little less so. What?

I mean, my understanding of it is, like, with many of these contemporary... Don't have the... TV project. I don't have any bombs. I just think that you could probably count on one hand the number of high-profile creators who have said they would take a step back in subsequent seasons who have taken a step back. It's just not in their DNA. And nor is it necessarily what

studios and streamers want. I mean, an example for that was Ben Stiller saying he was happy to have launched rocket ship severance and would be less involved in the second season. And I think the second season makes it clear that he was not less involved. Right. Well, he directed a bunch of the episodes. Yeah. Yeah. And now he's saying he's not directing any of the third season. We'll see. I mean, again, I'm not saying that like to be judgy, like he's the creative, one of the key creative forces behind that show. So I think that something like Pokerface, when you have a Ryan Johnson,

you have Natasha Leon, who are proven creators and headliners. Yes. That is never going to be a, they're never going to be minority owners. Okay. So this is all changing because Pokerface is done at Peacock.

I guess would you call it canceled? Yeah, I'd call it canceled. And Natasha Leone is stepping away from the role of Charlie. She's done. Ryan Johnson would like to get this show on another streamer and he would like Peter Dinklage to take over the role of Charlie and now in his pitch to the world and obviously to the networks he's saying each person playing Charlie a la Dr. Who I guess

would then... Good poll by you. Yeah, would basically like do two years and step away. And so it would be a limited time commitment but a long running show or forever running show. I would imagine that they are going to continue with the show the crime, and then the person comes into the situation and solves it, much like Colombo. What did you think of this news? And do you think he's got a shot here selling this and selling this idea?

So the reason why it's possible is not just because of the big names involved in it, but because it is, the show is made by MRC, which is an independent studio. So it was sold to Peacock, and Peacock said, no, thank you, and MRC retains the rights to the show, and they could sell it somewhere else. So it's not like they had to extract it from universal. So it is plausible that they could sell it somewhere else. I'm very skeptical that they will, although I've often been very, very wrong about things like this. I think the odds of the show continuing are really wrapped up in the strange shifting narrative around the show itself. Okay. When the show was announced and got a splashy, I think immediate two-season pickup from Peacock, there was a bidding war for it. I believe so.

all of the press around it was Ryan Johnson expressing his, I think, quite sincere love for old-fashioned crime of the week procedural television. And he was like, I've got a spin on it. As it turned out, he did. He had a great, that pilot episode is incredible on the page and in real life. Then there are highlight episodes I would point to across the two-season run, though I did not care for the second season as much as the first season. I agree with that. We got on mics on this podcast and we were like, this is incredibly smart. This is not what we had been seeing. a lot of high-profile creators coming to TV to do vanity projects or more indulgent projects. This is high-profile creators saying, we're going to make a TV show. And that also seemed to fit in with the mandate that we believe would be a successful one for Peacock, which maybe they believe, too, because now they've just bought Taylor Sheridan to provide television shows for them.

Anyway, in reality of how contemporary television is made, that ended up being kind of a pipe dream. but because of the starry nature of it, because of the heavy involvement of very busy creators, like Ryan Johnson, like Natasha Leone, the show absolutely did not hit its mark to my mind as a dependable week-to-week procedural because there were two or three years between seasons. Yeah, you could chalk some of that up to strikes, right?

For sure, but even so, the tempo of the show was clearly never going to be what it had been sold as. And then the second season really leaned into the fact that it wasn't necessarily crime of the week, it was more celeb of the week, like all the guest stars in their roll-a-dexes who would show up,

making some charming appearances and charming whatever. So that was more of the rubber meeting the road of how TV is actually made these days. And I feel like it speaks to kind of the crux of Ryan Johnson that maybe is also relevant for the Knives-Out conversation and maybe his entire career, which is, do you think that he most wants to be an innovator

or a traditionalist? Because he keeps taking on these assignments saying, whether it was Star Wars or Agatha Christie who'd done it or procedural TV, saying, my brain works a certain way and I've cracked it. I can do this within the system. Sure. And then the things that he does are often more radical than what had come before. And whether you like it or you dislike it, it doesn't always, it doesn't meet,

it doesn't set a template for continued success within that. It's interesting you should say that. So I was thinking about him in a relationship to Edgar Wright, who had a running man come out this past weekend with Glenn Powell. I have seen it and I enjoyed it, but it did not do, I think, as well as people hoped it would do. It got edged up by the magic movie. Now you see me.

Now you don't three, yeah. And those two guys are, I don't know how close they are in age, but they are both, like, huge fanatics of cinema. And I think both have and held a lot of promise coming up in fairly independent circles, you know, obviously right in England with the Coronado trilogy and then Ryan Johnson initially with Brick, you know, and kind

of like this sort of really like signature film that came, like, I think people were and Looper too, which showed like an really competent ability to move from genre to genre and have some wildly creative swings within those kinds of walls of whatever like the traditional sort of storytelling

you'd expect from those kinds of movies. I don't want to interrupt you, but I think it's a great, great pairing because they did both seem like the princes who were potentially promised of kids, grown-up kids who love the action figures but were willing to take them out of their boxes and play with them.

And they've had mixed success when they've stepped into those franchises. So obviously Wright was involved with the original version of Ant Man and was one of Marvel's big like, oh, we fuck with anybody. Like we'll go out and get the best filmmaker for this job and let them cook,

psych. You know, and then now I don't know actually what happened behind the scenes with Ant Man or what like eventually was like sort of agreed upon narrative of like why Wright stepped away from the project. Obviously, Ryan Johnson made one of the best Star Wars films, I think, in my opinion. We both think.

But wound up getting thrown into some of the dumbest culture war stuff that we've had in the 21st century and was not, did not come back. Even at one point there was going to be another trilogy that he was going to do. That felt kind of like a golden parachute. Right. Like there was like the Benny Off and Weiss time. There was the Ryan Johnson time. that didn't work out. And now he's kind of settled

into this Knives Out thing, although I don't always find it to be the most comfortable cloak for him to wear because I feel like every time one of these movies comes out, he has a somewhat public disagreement with Netflix about the amount

that it's going to be in theaters and I'm like, well, there isn't Netflix. You know, I mean, like, maybe somebody somewhere said, like, hey, and we're also going to give this a run, and then it finally gets up to Ted Sarandos and he's like, no,

that's not the loss, you know? I don't know what their careers are like if they just keep making their movies. you know, and they keep, they stay out of those franchises. But Ryan Johnson seems to have a very, very good eye for scaling his stuff. That's well said, yeah. And so there is a world in which Knives Out is just a one-off Agatha Christie tribute. But I think it very quickly after the first one became a, I would make these for the rest of my career,

for as long as Daniel Craig wants to do them, and there's like a huge potential for these. And there's a lot of similarities between Knives Out and Pokerface in terms of like, obviously actors really want to be in these. They're happy to do small parts. This new one has like Jeremy Renner and Chris Carey Washington and Glenn Close and Joshua Connor and the list goes on. Andrew Scott, Kelly Spaney. Exactly.

So it's an interesting way to like watching those two guys navigate their careers, navigate their successes and failures is really fascinating. And navigate the contemporary moment, which is to say that like their careers probably would have looked a lot different in the 70s and 80s when the options available to them would be different. Or maybe they are because of their love of a certain type of pop culture and their willingness to play with past. they work only in this era, right?

Where you can, I mean, one of the reasons that the Knives Out movies attracts the cast isn't just because they've been successful. It's not just because they've been on Netflix. It's not just because, and I'm speaking hypothetically, Ryan might be a really nice guy who runs a good process. Like people might like to work with them. All of that is respectable. I think that part of the reason might also be that they all get the wink, wink brief. Like they know what they're signing up for because they understand it's so well communicated that this is a flavor that has been sampled in the past. Yes.

Yes. Now, my question about PokerFace, really, is do you think the public has voted? Or is there a new iteration of this show that feels completely different from the Natasha Leon one? I have no idea because I don't really know. It's very hard for me to tell, like, is poker face, well, at its height, what was PokerFace's, like, impact or success? How successful would Natasha Leon's poker face have been at Netflix? which is really just a question to your point of scale. Like that does seem like that type of show showing up every two years, but building a library within service, feels like something that could work there. Like when you see just stuff drop on there

and suddenly takes over and becomes number one, like the suits phenomenon. I mean, that would make more sense. We don't know how it performed for Peacock, and we don't know how it performs as a library title for Peacock. And we also don't know what their aims were. So it all feels a little bit opaque.

But he hasn't said anything about that. He does speak about the Netflix frustrations, but I wonder if he had any frustrations about the, I don't know. About the peacock side. Do you think, you put it to me, do you think that he will find a home for the Peter Dinklage Pokerface and the show will continue? I'm going to say yes.

Yeah. Because I do think actually, like, I mean, he's obviously just had a very successful relationship with Netflix. And while they may banter back and forth about theatrical release, it just seems like if they could make the budgets work. If they can make the numbers work, that it would be the most stable place because they want to keep him happy. He wants to be happy. He wants the show to be seen. And presumably Netflix could buy the poker face library and just be like now there's like multiple seasons of this. I think that's the only way they would do it. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Ever have a plan come together out of nowhere and realize you're missing something? Like a last minute beach day, a spontaneous hike or an outdoor movie night you didn't plan for. That's when Prime's same-day delivery as you're back. Getting you exactly what you need fast and reliably so you can actually join the moment instead of watching from the sidelines. Same day delivery, it's on Prime. Visit Amazon.com slash Prime to find millions of items delivered fast.

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Is there any other sort of discord in the country right now? I saw a picture from the live action Zelda. Yeah, you sent that to me. And it's looking real Frodo hours. I texted that right to my daughter. Like instantly. Like you were like, and did you Columbus it? I was like, look what I found on the internet.

Apropos of nothing. this is why I work these fucking hours for you my daughter is this do I misremember Zelda is it is there like a hobbit in this like no they're

my dear Chris which camera they are members of the Hylean race they have elvish ears I don't think I've played this game since it was on like a PC like it was never

I played it on NES NES Yeah I beat it Good job Happy birthday You are the best of this

I'm gonna do a list of video games I've beat Hold on Shinobi Keep talking Revenge of Shinobi I fucking Shinobi

That game was sick Yeah Dude's when I go to Japan Guys are like We heard about you No one No one has brought the ethos Of Joe Shinob

I know. It's incredible. One of my favorite things, small detour here, about 90s-era video games that you'd play like on Sega Genesis is you'd be playing Revenge of Shinobi. Again, super sick, double jump, and then you throw the throwing stars. You'd get, you'd like beat the bosses and they would all be like, big fat ninja or whatever, like ninja that drops from the sky. And then like the villain of like the sixth board would be Spider-Man, like fully Spider-Man,

but with a little bit of a different costume. Yeah. Because someone... Spider-Gent. Someone... They wouldn't even say why, or like Batman would be the villain, because someone at Sega was just freelancing, and would be like, you know who'd be sick?

If Shinobi fought that name? Yeah, and then the lawyers were like, but they didn't actually change it because nobody was paying attention to the shit. Would that happen in Mortal Kombat? Not to my knowledge, but you probably... Maybe I got to some secret level you never got to them. Yeah, on the PC, because yours is better at it.

No, I got confused because Montezuma's revenge, I beat on the computer. which took a long time. Sure. Yeah. You put in the hours. Only child life is real. Zelda is a very front of mind concern in my household because Breath of the Wild and Tears the Kingdom have been massive, massive dad-daughter adventurings. We were still playing it yesterday because my younger daughter is like, let's go do something fun or cool because these games are so rich and there's so many weird little side stories you can do.

You know, Red Dead Redemption also has side stories. If you ever want to play those. With my children? The words Grand Theft Auto have lost their meaning for a few generation. Let me say you the story of the OK Corral. Did you know, fun fact about me, did you know that I did a voice in Grand Theft Auto 3? Yes, I remember this. Yeah.

This is during your video game Empresario days. Oh, right. Yeah. When you were reviewing games. Yeah, when I was the fucking Armand White of the fifth generation home consoles. Who did you play? A ninja? Yeah, I play Spider-Man.

Okay, so this is relevant. So I sent that image, which does look ripped straight from a cutscene from Breath of the Wild. That is the visuals of the game, more or less, of this beautiful open world and meadows, and that's the way Zelda Linker dressed in the game. I sent it to my daughter, and her instantly wrote, I wish it was animated. Oh. She does not, she was like, basically the takeover is it was very cosplay. And is she excited for Moana in that same, or skeptical?

of Moana in that same way? Completely uninterested. Okay. Yeah, I think that this interesting thing about the Zelda thing is that there is, with Mario, the Mario movie was like a cartoon that just had through a lot of like signifiers and it's for kids and it's just fun and silly because we all understand that it's absolute gibberish. If you try to make sense of like these. The story.

These plumbers from Brooklyn like going into a mushroom kingdom. Are they from Brooklyn? Are they from Brooklyn? Do that from Staten Island? I want to say they're from Queens. in support of our new mayor elect. I feel like everything's coming up queens these days.

Did you think those guys voted Cuomo? No, they're Slewa. Thousand percent Slewa. Get these turtles. Yeah. He takes a real interest in animal life in the city. They're turtles in the sewers

absolutely sounds like a Slewa campaign commercial. The Zelda thing is so deep video game in a way that I don't understand how they're going to translate it because basically there have been 10 to 14 iterations

that all are kind of like Link must save Zelda in a world with this name, but every time the world is different and Link doesn't talk. Yeah. So they're really, and Zelda gets kidnapped and he rescues her at the end. So either it's a screenwriter's dream

to be like, I shall write the fantasy adventure romance that I've always wanted to write and put it in this world with fish people called the Zora, or they're trying to wrap reason around absolute, like, crazy brain.

80s Nintendo nonsense. I'm just wondering... And I think they wanted more, like... They kind of just were like, the stories and the games are fun and sweet. So just like... Just like, let's have some iconic moments

that show up on screen. Just throw the cutscenes together, basically. Or also, if you just put out a Zelda movie, people will probably take their kids to go see it. I mean, I would. Would you take your word? I saw an ad yesterday for adopting teens, and it was like...

Was it service to you? No, I was like... And it was like... And it was like... Mm-hmm. I can't remember whether it was like some... But it was basically like, give me someone to look up to, and it's like an older man, like, looking up to a tall teenager.

And I was like, that's your dream. It's like you and Jalen Phillips. Be like, ah, my son, you are so strong. If only you could be trained in the arts of... Does your daughter want all live action films animated? Like, would she advocate for animated materialists? Huh, great question. First of all, thank you.

I think she would have been more drawn by the caveman plot that bookends the film. You know, I thought that was pretty radical. No, no, I think she likes, I think she likes things to stay in their light. Maybe she is kind of a traditionalist. Okay. You know, she likes a cartoon,

like a classic Disney cartoon, and then she likes mostly Jane Austen adaptations. So that's pretty much, and wicked for good. Does she like Landman? Why don't you ask me if I like Landman? you coward. Well, okay. You know what? I find this to be a little bit of he doth protest too much. I never said you have to watch the second season of Landman.

Like you've been like, you can't believe you're making me do this. I never said we have to do it. First of all, I think you got a little taste, you know, and the sweet oils are flowing again on West Texas and you want it back in. I mean, there is something comforting about a show that really privileges the idea of a world, a country, nay, a state, in which a man can just lecture a woman on anything at any time for as long as he wants to. And she will stand there and be like, great point, sir. I will have someone buy your cigarettes.

You cannot view this show through that lens. You don't think I should view it through a woke lens? No, I didn't say that. You said that. I just meant like if you're going to this show to have your political and social convictions affirmed, I don't think you're going to enjoy it. Okay. It's more formal than that. I see.

No, I see. Please tell me more. I'm ready to talk about the show. I just do think the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was somehow I watched the season premiere before you did. I was like, oh yeah, is it up? That was so crazy. That was the sickest fucking flex you've ever texted me. You texted that at like seven in the morning and you'd watched it at like four.

because we're still jet lagged. We're so dead lagged. I was like, this is a perfect use of the hours of 5 a.m. to 6 a.m. on a Sunday is to return to the adventures of, Tommy. Tommy.

Yeah. Tommy and Co. And MTEX, right? And I assumed that you had spent some of your downtime, uh, sweating off the pints last week, just digging into the screeners. No,

I was watching, just, I was just watching Gavin and Stacey and celebrity traders, you know, just trying to embed myself in the culture. Just like literally all of my coworkers there. Um, Okay, so Landman is back, and I would give you a recap of what happened in the first season.

The beginning of the episode has like a last season on Landman. I really don't know if any of that's going to matter. I don't know if it matters. I've tried to diagnose what I think is what makes the show so successful. In some ways, I don't want to be too much of an anthropologist. I don't think anthropologists would be welcome in Landman, honestly. Can you imagine? Hello.

I am a social anthropologist. I'd like to talk to you about gender roles, or at least study yours. What's that you're drinking there, sir? And please, may I have some of that pasta? Go on. It basically picks up where the last season ends, which spoilers for the first season of Landman, if you haven't watched it already. John Hamm dies of a heart attack. Lucky guy.

Monty, who would run MTEX, making it one of the biggest independent oil producers or the biggest independent oil producer in the region. And he's apparently, we learned this episode. was kind of an infamous son of a bitch. Well, I mean, I think he drove a hard bargain. But you know who drives a harder one? Yes. Cammy. Yeah, I do know.

His widow, played by Demi Moore, who was in the first season. And one of the things you and I'm remarked upon a lot, you know, I am now becoming a bit of a sleuth when it comes to, I wonder if this person was on set the same day they shot the scene with this other person or... A bit of a sleuth. But I got to tell you, I think... I think Demi Moore put the work in and put the time in. And she has often seen swimming laps in the first season, getting out, handing Monty a smoothie, asking him to take his heart medication, telling him not to be stressed out, none of which he took to heart. And then his heart exploded because, I think, because of like a cartel action against his oil rig or something like that. Sure.

I don't think so. So we got the oil company deal. Monty has now, or Tommy has become the president of ops. De facto. This is one of Monty's last masterstroke. also made the lawyer a big deal there, too. Yeah, but then I think, then I think posthumously from the afterlife, Monty read the Reddit response to that lawyer and was like, she's still in the cast.

She's in the credits. Great. Also in the credits, Billed third is Andy Garcia. Yes. Who has been in one scene in two seasons of this show so far, including this first episode, does not appear. Do you think that now that we see, and we're going to jump around a bit, obviously, but, Demi Moore's performance is Cammy in this. I think it's the best thing in this season premiere.

I thought she was great. Is this the greatest slow planting of a major character since Bunny Colvin in season two of the Wire? I think it's comparable. It means as much to American history. I think it does too. Both great leaders who had responsibility foisted upon them thought outside the box.

And we're also motivated by, co-eds giving blow jobs to 70-year-olds? Or no? Is that just Cammy? I don't think that happened to Bunny Cullivan. But that's a stirring scene when Cammy comes across two young women in a hotel lobby bar bathroom. And they're talking about how they're going to get a free trip to Touloum out of an oil executive. Let me tell you something. By dealing out some BJs.

The only thing that I can think of that hates young women more than Cammy is the television show Landman. and that's saying something. I'm going to go on the record with that. You can clip that, Kyya. I feel strongly about that. Cammy takes over this company. Tommy's still running it. It's basically the same playbook as last season

in terms of there is kind of a weekly crisis or whatever with the oil company. This one's really just Cammy's introduction to the sharks or rather the... She introduces herself. The predators of the Serengeti, which is what they refer to the luncheon that Camie is giving for all the other oil executives.

Some other plots going on. We are introduced to what we realize is Tommy's brother, right? Is it his brother or his father? That's his father, dude. Yeah, his mom dies. I thought they were like... We went over this. Oh, we did go over this.

You want this to be like... You want this to be like, because they are about nine years apart in human age. Yes. But I am here to tell you. Sam Elliott plays Billy Bob Thornton's dad. Yes. God damn it. Yeah.

I don't think that's right. There's a lot of things in Lamband that I think are on the edge. This is where you draw your line. This is a show in which... Sorry for caring about age gaps. You know, I know it's not fashionable, but... There is a 15-minute scene in which Allie Larder has spent $3,000... I'm glad you timed it too, because it's actually 11 minutes, but it is mind-blowing.

But let's finish Sam Elliott at first. Well, I'm just saying, and in that scene, all of the setup... And all of the money spent on truffles is so Billy Bob Thornton can be like, the time of the month, huh, Missy? That's the plot. And you're upset about Sam Elliott being someone's dad? I just was confused because his name is TJ. And I was like, oh, maybe his name's Tim John.

And then Tommy's name is Tommy. I'm sorry, Tim John? Timjin? Ah, Timjin. Nice to see you again. You're probably right. He's probably Tommy Senior. You know what I mean?

He's fucking Tommy Senior. He's not that much older than Billy Bob Thornton. He is 11 years older than him, which considering the way Taylor shared in views masculinity, is possible. That's big breeding age. That is perfect. If you ask his daughter about, because this is also, his daughter walks into a college interview and delivers a beautiful monologue about eugenics. Yes. Did you find that scene funny?

I want to talk about. We'll get there. Okay. So I think one of the major season-long arcs, obviously. is going to be Tommy's apparently father coming into the scene. So, oh, maybe you think it's not really his father. And he's living in an Amarillo assisted living facility. Also, wait, Chris, do you know how we know it's his father?

Because within seconds of meeting him, a woman walks up to him, and he explains how nature works to her. This man is near death. And a woman says, sir, sir, literally tears in her eyes. May I help you to dinner? Yes. And he's like, do you fucking know why the son's, sets at a different hour in the evening, Missy?

You fucking pee-brained female? But then when the dude comes out, he's like, all right, brother, I'm ready. Yeah, a man comes out and he's just like, you do whatever you want, sir. And he's like, thank you, fellow man. I will have dinner now. It's nuts. We get basically an entire half episode, I'd say two-thirds of an episode that's pretty standard landman, including Tommy lecturing a hotel waitress about skipping breakfast.

How you should skip breakfast. And who invented breakfast as the most important meal of the day? I will say, like, every 11 Tommy speeches, I'm like, it kind of sounds right. You know? That's how they get you. I think it was that one. And also, like, how do you think we, like, pay for all this wind farming is with oil? By the way, you see?

How many speeches do you think is this hit rate? Every 11? Yeah. That's basically what you said to me about the Red Scare podcast. Come on, Tommy. Like every 10 or 11, those ladies, you're like, they stumble their way into some truth. Definitely don't. Go on. You don't have editorial control over this podcast.

Clearly, no, but I'm nice to the person who does. And then we get to like this sort of two-thirds of the way in. And as Andy has alluded to, there is a dinner scene to end the episode that runs for 11 and a half minutes. I did time it. At 37 minutes, Tommy comes into his home. And at 49 minutes, we find out that Tommy's mother has died as he smokes a cigarette and looks at the same sunset that his father also was looking at an emeralo. Yeah. Now, do you want to just get into that dinner or do I have a couple other points for the other stuff?

I want it to leave love. Let's say the positive things first. I think Alley-Lard is fantastic. As a person and as a performer. And I think that she's probably participating in and authoring this role probably with, all of her heart and seems to be diving into it like Greg Luganus from a high dive, you know, just like whatever it takes, the fashion, the outrage, the, the emotions of this character. Sure.

I really like her. Great. I don't know that she is being served well by the material. Okay. I think that's very artfully said. I, all right, well, because there were a couple other scenes that I wanted to talk about, but we could talk about the dinner scene. Let's talk about the dinner scene because...

One of my favorite things about the Taylor-Sharrant experience is that on some level, even he knows he doesn't need all the scenes that he writes. Because Tommy walks into the dinner before dinner is served. And what's our guy's name? The guy actor who's just way too good to be in the show. Yeah. And he's sitting at the table. And he's like, hey, Nate.

I'm just going to paraphrase here. FYI, it's that time of the month from my crazy wife. And he's like, I definitely get that sense because women are crazy. Yeah. And he's like, okay, noted. And then the scene happens. And the purpose of the scene is for him to say that to her face. Well, this is the thing that I think is so bizarre.

You've often said Taylor Sheridan, either gets no or takes no notes. Yes. This purpose of what this scene would be in any other television show is that Jacob Loughlin's character, Caleb, what's his name? Sure. Colton, Carter.

Doesn't matter. I do want to know. I want to know if I'm right. It's Cooper. Oh, but we're going to cut that? You can keep it. You can keep it. You can also keep your Red Scare fandom.

It's okay. I'm just interested in all sides. Sure. Cooper, the whole point of the dinner is we are following Cooper from his oil strike, where he apparently has become a millionaire many times over. And is like, I got to go talk to my dad about business. And she's like, all right, you know, see you later. And he goes to dinner.

And we're like, okay, we're coming to dinner. to talk about the fact that the son has become a landman. Yes. And there are land men in this family now. Yes. Land men, exactly. It never even gets to that fucking point.

He never mentions what he's been doing that day or why he wanted to see his father because we immediately go into a long diatribe about menstruation and Caccio Pepe with white truffles. Yeah. And you guys, if you don't know the show, you would think Chris was having a stroke

when he's talking. It's like when I talked about chair company last week. Yes. Yeah. If the show was interested in any traditional definition of rising stakes or drama. But that's the thing. It's not. So he's like-

Cooper. Yeah. If you just isolated the Cooper plot, this is fucking, like this is a Jimmy Stewart movie from the 30s. Like it has been absolute roaring success from the minute all of his friends died in a fire explosion in the pilot. And then he married the guy's girl. girlfriend or wife.

Who now just shows up and says, ah, me a more. It is pretty interesting being rich. Like, there hasn't been a single obstacle. I did find that, I was mildly annoyed that a woman who has spent seemingly the last few years because she was with this guy who was on this wildcat team

in the oil business, when Cooper's like, I'm pumping 5,200 gallons a day, oil's trading at $50, that's $39,000 a day. And she's like, is that a lot? She would know that's a lot. well I think she's she might be groggy because she's been

solo parenting and he and she's like oh the baby's asleep and Cooper's like guess what real loud that fucking baby way you're rich yeah because that baby now

can go to Brown you know wow making it personal first of all there is a vibrant financial aid program um anyway yeah like that would be a storyline on any other show

but it is not a storyline on this show. Similarly, one of the compelling traits of Alley Larger's character, whose name is, I want to say, Caleb. Angela. Angela, is that she attempts to culture these roughnecks in last year she made paella. Yes. This year, she made pasta. Now, creating a perfect caccioid pepe with the emulsion of the peccary no cheese is challenging. Certainly at scale. For 10 people, not al-a-manute. I get that. I don't think, Taylor Sheridan who wrote this understands even the content I guess that was a vehicle for her

to explain something fancy but then have bought a more expensive ingredient in this case a white truffle which was available incredibly at the specially good store in Midland Texas and how she was going to grade it over them but not give it to her children who she says don't have advanced pallets even though her son

is a millionaire many times over and her daughter is 35 yes so fine but like that is not a complicated dish and so then to cut to these guys being like, what are these long strands of wheat? Where's the sauce? None of it hangs together,

but it is being performed with such a seriousness. Also, he could be like, you women are crazy a couple days every month. Like, that is the purpose of the scene. That's what I'm saying, is that you can hate it, and there's a big part of me that hates it, hates the content,

but admires the freedom. Do you know what I mean? You admire the freedom. Creative freedom. Yeah. The fact that he's just like, you thought this was going to be a scene where, you know,

father and son recognize that, you know, the stakes are different. I'll say. And instead, it's about a woman having her menstrual cycle

and making pasta. Yeah. For 11 minutes. So it's like Jean Diehl, right? It's like that Belgian film that won the site and sound poll.

I mean, that's basically the same thing. If you squint, if you zone out, if you just zone out like 100,000 feet. It's all arguments. It is. It's all the same thing.

same thing. I'm just saying. I liked, you asked me about the interview scene in which the daughter gets into TCU. The daughter's like, and shout, I was going to text Joel Anderson, the ringer's Joel Anderson, because I think he's a big TCU supporter. Oh, nice. And I would imagine, I never talked to Joel exactly about TCU, but I think he went there, how he felt about the depiction of the college in the show. I thought it came off fairly well. I want to, speaking of Brown, shout out my old college friend Miriam Silverman for playing Greta. No. Not Greta. No. No. Yeah. You knew You knew the admission officer? You didn't leave with that?

And she's on a Tony last year. For what? For the sign in Sydney Burstein's window that I think Oscar Isaac was in. Okay. Shout out. And she was way too good for that part. Do you have her number? And she, uh, do you want to call her live?

How was it? I don't, I don't have her number. No. That would be we should start doing that. Calling people. What's up? Miriam. She's going to love this.

I haven't spoken to her in 20 years. I didn't see your Tony award-winning performance. heard it was great. What I really want to talk to you about is, like, getting into that, like, how does someone become a horn toad? Like, how do you earn it? She was so much better than that scene needed to be. But also, she did seem to understand the satire of some aspect of it.

And had a good spirit about it, which I appreciate it. And I thought Michelle Randolph, I mean, I know you often mention the fact that she's... Too old for that part? Yes. I thought she at least was doing like some comic stuff that maybe she didn't do in the first And am I really a friend of women if I'm criticizing women's ages? I mean, I'm really... Chantelle Ackerman.

Feele yourself. Fair. I think ultimately my thing about the show is one, it is fun to talk about. But two... Think about all this stuff we just talked about, like, in just in this episode. There's a lot. We don't do this for Flouribus, you know? I mean, I love Flouravis.

We're going to talk about next, but... We're going to be in it out in like six minutes. That was pretty good. That was masterful art. Congratulations. Yeah. Like, I find it really interesting because at a moment when everything that comes across our scenes, our screens, we do have to like pause and just give it a thought.

Like, is this AI content? Like, is this fake? And every time I think that this show could be like a little bit chatty, a little bit chat GPT, because like the way the main character just sort of walks through an obstacle course of scenes in which he explains. planes things. Yeah. Like the, oh, he's sitting there and he tells the woman about breakfast. And then he's in a big room. And the guy's like, do you still have these wells? And he's like, fuck you, you know, I do. You know how much they're worth. They're $400,000. And she, like,

and then the more, then scenes just sort of keep approaching him as if he's playing a video game of drama. Yes. But the content of the scenes is so, so unhinged that it can't be. That is, that is, that is the spark of humanity. It's only him. That is the ghost in the machine. Yes. God bless it. He's the watcher on the wall, holding back the singularity from happening. He's the hero we deserve.

Let's talk a little bit about pluribus. Yeah, it was good. Thanks for tuning in. This was a more of a chamberpiece episode, even though it starts with a wonderful flashback to Carolyn Helen's relationship when they go to Norway, I believe, and to go see the Northern Lights. Yes. And I will say, you know, because we have to use our lived experience when we comment on television shows,

the only criticism I've heard about this show that has rung in any way legitimate to me so far was a friend of mine who has from England, from London, who has traveled in Norway and said the phoniest moment of the show was when the Norwegian bellhop accepted the tip. Oh, because, yeah, it's not a big service charge culture there. Yeah, yeah. That was the sign that they didn't actually go to the ice hotel. That's just Vince Gilligan being a wonderful gentleman. If you ever want to have a good conversation, bring up tipping to a room full of English people.

They love it. They love talking about how they don't do it. They love talking about how it makes no sense, and they don't do it. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, but the key is you just don't pay people a living wage, and then it makes more sense. Then they love it. What did you think of this episode? It was good? Yeah, it was pretty good.

What do you think of it? You know what I did? I did think it was that those first two episodes are so breathtaking both in some of the filmmaking that's going on in there, like the originality of thought, like the characterization of Carol, Ray Sehorne's performance. I'm so over the moon about this. I did not blink twice while watching this episode. I was captivated. But by the end, I did find myself thinking like, oh, perhaps like this is a little bit more of a sketchbook for ideas. about humanity and about life,

then it is always going to be a like, a little clock that Vince Gilligan has made a la Breaking Bad, where it's like this propulsive, intricate plotting. I mean, like, obviously, like, there's a lot of things that happen in this episode, and I think we find out a lot about the new world Carol is living in, but it felt to me more about an episode that was about the idea of power and control in a life

when you don't have any. And like how the others, which I think is how they're being casually referred to now or maybe it's even in the Apple press stuff. You know, they have the power of collective memory and collective expertise, but Carol has, like, essentially her individuality and also her recklessness, you know,

and her emotions and her falling into depression. And that's almost in her way. Like, the only thing that she holds over these people is that if she throws a tantrum, like, thousands of people die. And if she asks for a grenade, they kind of have to, by their design, give them to her. Well, I think two things. I think that it is still working that furrow

where the power dynamic and the clock is they're trying to absorb her. So there is an antagonism baked into it despite all of the kindness and all the gifting. I'm not the first, I'm in fact the last person to say this, but I do think the more relevant comp for Vince Gilligan's career is the X-Files. Because this is an episode where you started to feel, because everything about him is process.

Sprouts is empty, you film it empty, then you refill it and you see how that works, and that is just what you get when you watch a Vince Gilligan show. I enjoy the feeling, like the watchmaking feeling of him in real time trying to solve what was essentially the unsolvable dilemma of the X-Files,

which is a lot of fun, whimsical ideas week to week, but a steady drumbeat of a very stakes-heavy over-narrative. Right, a canonical, like, serialized what is going on in the world thing. And ultimately, that undid the X-Files, I think. Like, the show, there are people who love it for the black oil and the aliens, and there are people who love it for the Vampire of the Week, the one-off episodes.

And even in its afterlife, when the show has come back, it's come back as different versions of that. There was the reboot in which it was more of, in the movies in which it was like, this is a story. It's much more about the alien abduction. And then there was the reboot where it's like, well, we'll just sort of have fun again. And I don't know if they were. And now it's getting rebooted again with Ryan Coogler.

is executive producing it at Disney and Daniel Deadweiler is rumored to be in it. Is this what you were doing while I was watching Landman? This is what I was doing while you were like geese, what a band. Fair enough.

No. So anyway, so he's trying to solve for that in real time. And this episode definitely felt like the conceit that could have been one episode of X-Files, he was splashing around in the pool a little bit longer. And I think he was enjoying that

and the the the the the the the the how much bigger the consequences would be if you gave it more uh oxygen yeah um but breaking bad also taught him about that keeping that tempo so i liked i i found the opening almost intentionally like a slowdown of where we've been going and it's also worth noting that the other aspect of vince gilligan that we always admire is he does seem like a very generous boss and so this episode was written and directed by gordon smith who's worked with him across all the Albuquerque shows. I'm not saying that because it was some drop-off in quality. It just was a different person behind the camera.

So I found the opening Norway part like a little bit of lost-ish backfilling. Yeah. But nice to see the two of them together. Yeah, and that the show can move in multiple directions. But I did find in a way that was familiar to previous Vince Gilligan shows, the throwaway line of the grenade being made manifest and blown up, but then that final conversation with the D.H.L. guy or whatever.

Yeah. Suddenly the power dynamic shifted again, and you realize that she does have, not just that she can yell at them, but her obstinence is kind of like a virus to them. And they can't solve for it. And her power is much more than it maybe ought to be. Well, she's confusing them because that Sprout scene while an lovely kind of visually funny set piece also kind of is exemplary of Carol's consumerism and maybe sort of her consumer therapy that she does or shopping therapy that she does where she wants an entirely full supermarket to shop in, even though they could bring her anything she wants.

She just wants things her way. And you juxtapose that with her alarm that the lights are all going off and the people or the others are just like, well, we don't need them. there's no crime, so we only need certain things illuminated and we'll just save electricity. And that's inconceivable to her. You know, she's just sort of like,

what do you, like this kind of collective spirit when she's got this kind of gaping wound of, not narcissism, but I guess narcissism. You know, is a fascinating juxtaposition to me. And another, just another one of the really smart themes that the show is so capable of playing with, like individual versus, what is our individual?

responsibility versus collective action. I appreciate, by the way, that the ringer has adopted this attitude by not having air conditioning anymore inside the studio. I was just going to say it's getting a little... But I appreciate that because it's probably for the good of the environment of the greater Southland. That's probably what they were thinking. I think that's probably what they were thinking.

And I, you know, as the more politically minded, as an ally. As an ally of women under the age of 35, apparently, don't clip that. Kai McMullen. Kai McMullen, no, you cannot clip that. Kai McMullen Red Scare listener Cannot clip that I ruin this take I do not consent

Yeah that's my opinion Let's wrap it up there It's getting a little dangerous in here And now I'm like I don't even know where this is going Because it's your birthday Bluribus still rules Thanks to Kai Thanks to Kai it's great to be back in Los Angeles

We'll come back on Thursday Maybe we'll publish later And we could do the fourth episode of Plurbubus I want you to catch up down Cemetery Road I want to hear your thoughts on that Okay. What do I want you to do? Get ready for Landman next week. I got a prep. I got to prep. I got to learn a lot. Shoot straight. Do you want to do this? Is this the way you want to spend the rest of your 20-25 watching Landman?

When you put it like that, it sounded worse. I just love talking about it with you, but I hate dragging you along when you don't want to go. It's not that I didn't want to go. Clearly, we've been friends a long time. You know, are we brothers? Am I your father? Hard to tell. Hard to tell. But I think what was the worst moment of my weekend was the existential panic when I thought that you just were going to leave me there. That I thought I was alone in Midland. Oh, that I wasn't going to watch it.

That this was a prank that you had successfully pulled. Oh, that was just a bit last year. No, I'm watching this show. And I want to see father and son or brother and brother reunite. Yeah. And I want to see Andy Garcia. And I want to see Cammy Cook. Mm-hmm.

I liked Emmy in this episode. I thought she was really good. Yeah. That's it for us. We'll be back on Thursday. I hope everybody has a great week. Happy birthday, Brunskis.