The Watch - Lots of TV: Emmy Nominations, ‘Sharp Objects,’ ‘Succession,’ and More | The Watch (Ep. 275)

Episode Date: July 16, 2018

The Ringer’s Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald check in on the Daddington Hive (2:00) before discussing the best movie trailers since 1990 (8:00) and the Emmy nominations (14:00). Later they discuss the first two episodes of ‘Sharp Objects’ (25:00), check in on ‘GLOW’ Season 2 (42:00), and catch up on ‘Succession’ (44:30). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I need sports to have to clear the room. Stand up and walk now. Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I'm an editor at the rigor.com and joining me in the studio. He jumped hit. Damn shit. Hello and welcome to the Watch.

My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at the Rigger.com. And joining me in the studio. He just jumped head first into the shallow end. It's in Greenwald. I love it. Chris, tell the people what you're referring to. Succession.

Guys. That's the only show that matters. Guys, we have a lot on the agenda today. I'm excited to just run through all of it. But I really hope that people out there listening stick around for our conversation about Succession because I love this show, guys. Last night's episode was masterful. Yes. I am fired up to talk about it.

And just a little teaser for, you know, we're not going to talk about it to the end. We're going to get through some other stuff. but it was wildly, wildly accurate in its representation of New Mexico in my brief experience there. I really think that this is going to, if they spend more time in Taoise, you're really going to have like a lot to think about down there.

When I show up at the Albuquerque Airport, which I will be doing later this week, I just go right up to like to the welcome tourism desk and I say, give me the Kendall Roy package. You know, we have a filter. My wife and I, like when we were at night, if we were watching something on the laptop, there's like a nighttime filter on our computer

that like it dims it. it kind of, but it makes everything look kind of sepia. So we'll be sitting there and it's like, why does modern family look like it was shot by Terrence Malick? Yeah. But Succession really, New Mexico

really is that brown. When you're actually in New Mexico, it's really that brown. It is. Guys, okay, look, we're so excited to talk about Succession on HBO, but we got a lot of other shows to talk about. We're going to talk about sharp objects on HBO. We're going to talk some news and things, some Emmy

nominations that we missed last week. Yeah, we got to do the Emmy nominations first. Yeah. Can I do one bit of just side business first? Sure. The Emmy nominations, you know, we missed them on Wednesday. We recorded on Wednesday. We're going to get into it.

But I just have like a little bit of like just news from the front lines of the Daddington Hive. You love doing that. I love that this has replaced plane movies. I have to share with people. I said that I saw eighth grade blanked it. You just blanked me. Well, I haven't seen it yet. I haven't seen fucking Incredibles too.

I'm not going to spoil Incredibles 2. I don't care. I don't care either. Was it good? Eighth grade? Yeah, it's good. Yeah, I'd like to see it. So this is some quality podcast content.

What other things are good? Succession. I just wanted to say, you know, I know that The Ringer is like deeply invested in the Pixar business. He had a big conversation. Like what was the best? You had a big list. The beloved company, they make a lot of popular movies.

I just want to say, for the heads of the back who don't know this, Pixar does not make kids movies. they're running the longest con on America. Well, no, actually, the biggest con in America is a different story. I'm just saying, because they're cartoons and there's Disney on them, we as a country are like, well, these are movies that are appropriate for children. They're not. Okay?

They are fully not. None of them are. Coco is a beautiful movie about death. That's fully what it's about. Aren't you just discovering the same thing that parents for generations have discovered that, like, when you take your kid to these things and something really, Brolic happens? It's like now I'm left with a shattered room. No, it's not like, it's not brolic like E.T. has to go home.

Or like my neighbor Totoro is like a weird dude like who lives in a tree. Did you? What? That's a beautiful movie for children. There's a cat bus. There's a giant cat that turns into a bus. People, if you have kids with other Dattingtons out there, show them Miyazaki movies. Break the chain of addiction. I took my child to see Incredibles 2. Here's a little little heads up that Incredibles do is not for children. You know what the first thing on the screen is? It's not that little lamp winking at you saying Pixar's coming. It's a message in block letters that says this movie contains like photosynthetic strobe features

that may cause you mental distress if you are sensitive to such things. Isn't that what they say before sharp objects do? They should. They should. Everyone in the theater was like, ha, ha, ha. And then they hung up there like a joke that went on too long. There is a fight scene in this movie that is, what's that club in Berlin where they lock the doors after 9pm and like don't open them until 6 a.m.? What club are you talking about?

There's like some nightclub that people go to. Not me. Is that a dad club? That is not a dad club, guys. It's like the darkest nightclub fantasy. This is lit like that. You have a very Kendall Roy glit in your eye right now. We didn't, like, I get, I get that the people.

behind who make these Pixar you don't need look why aren't you on my team here you don't like because I don't go see them anyway it's just like cool that they have their toys and they design these beautiful worlds you know but these are not movies for children so what was your can you give me your daughter's one sentence review her takeaway we got in the car after the film uh-huh and I said would you like to listen to something on the way home you're like would you like to drive would you like to listen to the soundtrack to a Berlin nightclub daddy once went to I said would you like to listen to something.

And she said, no thank you. That movie was very loud. I don't know if she's okay, man. Like, it's just, I just don't get it. Like, if you want to see, okay, so one thing works, we'll move on. But one thing that we are excited about, really excited about, and we're going to talk about a lot next week is this new Mission Impossible movie. Yeah.

It looks terrific. The reviews are great. We love Mission Impossible films. I couldn't be more excited. But I did read a review of it. And one of the reviews was this is just like, this is the perfect 2018 action movie because it is just full throttle commitment to these sculpted action scenes. It's everything's propulsive.

Everything is designed for what it's supposed to be designed for, right? Incredibles, too, is just a lot of fight scenes and then a couple jokes the parents get. Which basically, I feel like the goals for both of these films sound to me to be the same. That's right. That's all I'm saying. Okay. And as an adult person, keep my adult. movies in the adult category with Henry Cavill punching through bathroom walls.

So what's like an... I hesitate to take you too far into the wilds of Datington Island, but what would be a acceptable piece of child's entertainment then? Top Chef Jr. That's a fun one. Don't they lose on that one? Yeah, but they've said they're such good sports. They learn such good lessons.

No, but I'm being very, very serious here. Like old movies, like Mary Poppins are good. Like, kids don't like screaming. Just because kids sometimes scream doesn't mean you need to take them to. a movie that is punching and screaming. That's my point. Okay. The Miyazaki movies are good.

There's a cat bus that I mentioned that. You really left me out to dry here on this one. I don't know what to tell you. I think I've seen two Pixar movies. I don't watch animated films. Like not... Okay. I just have never ever really...

I really never rock with them. So like the idea that, like, I wouldn't want to be consigned to a life of them. I guess all I'm saying is I drank the Kool-Late. I went to see Pixar movies and I was like, oh, how clever. Yeah. What creativity? This was an L. But I also thought, no, it was fine.

I mean, it's clever. But I also thought that if I took a child, one that I was legally allowed to be watching after what went down in Berlin, I thought that some extra level would unlock. And I'd be like, oh, now I get the magic. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. These are movies. What's what they say about, like, parenthood in the first place, right? It's like, you never know love until you have a child, right? The one with Steve Martin?

Yeah. Or the TV show. Oh, yeah. They do say that. I knew love the day I started doing a podcast, Chris. How about that? How's that for a salvage? I saw you see that they're making a Downabby movie.

It's like really coming full circle for us. That's great. That was like the first thing we talked about on this podcast. There were a lot of unresolved questions I had about that. Also, like, there's just some CGI demands that that show, we never really saw it. Do you think that Julian Fellows wanted it? Do you think that Down Medi were going to cross over? Yeah.

I just feel like Julian Fellows was always constrained. You know what I mean? Just from what he could visually express. By this multiverse? Yeah. They're really making a Downabby movie. They are. Good for them.

I wanted to mention briefly. that we have on the website today, on the ringer.com, a bracket of the 32 best trailers since 1990. The pool, the field, was determined. I would say 65 to 80% by me. Really? Oh, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. I think it was like a little bit of democry. That's the name of the club in Berlin. What is it? Berghain. And what are the trip advisors on that? I'm just going to say, I just Googled notorious Berlin.

nightclub, so I'm definitely on some watch list. What do you in? I may have made that up a little bit, but here's the first sentence of an article about it. Okay. The Stalinist style power plant turned party warehouse is notorious. Okay? Is that on Andy Greenwald? This is the part on Spockets

where we don't dance. Okay. Okay. Did you don't want to see my wolf tattoo? I think. I did. Move on. Let's talk about trailers. I just was going to say you guys check it out. You should vote. I think the first round voting might be done by the time the pod goes up.

But there was a couple of interesting things that have come up with it. Obviously, everybody has opinions about what did or didn't get included. But one of the things I tried to do when I was writing about it was talk a little bit about how 2006, 7 and the rise of YouTube changed trailers in the sense that Hollywood started making trailers for repeat viewing on YouTube rather than, hey, we're putting this at the beginning of a movie or you have to sit through this when you're going. you turn on a VHS or a DVD, it became this thing that were, you know, obviously there were examples in the past of incredible trailers before this time period, but a disproportionate

amount of the best trailers of all time are all coming after 05, pretty much. Yeah, it's, to watch older trailers now, it's like when we watch old TV shows and the opening credits start, and then 90 seconds later, we're like, they're still doing this? Yes, yes. That's what trailers felt like. Right, where they're like, we are contractually obligated to put every single person, in LA law in the credit sequence? I mean, you can't leave A. Martinez out.

I know. I can barely needs like a solid four seconds. But so one of the things I was talking about was that era, 06-07. Yeah. And first really getting into YouTube. Yeah. And how basically like viral, virality was determined by like one-to-one evangelism. Like you would email it to somebody.

You would get on G-chat with somebody and be like, did you see this yet? I'd watch this 10 times. A.O.L. Instant Messenger. Sometimes you would be like at somebody's house and be like, yo, did you see this crazy video? Let's watch it. Let's watch this trailer.

And that would happen with songs too. And I had this flashback of, remember the day teenage dream came out? Yes. Yes. And like how like basically like nine chat windows opened up. It's like, did you see the Katie Perry came through and crushed the buildings? Can I tell you a weird? I don't think you remember my half of that.

No. The day Katie Perry dropped teenage dream. You were in a nightclub in Berlin. I was. And they finally took the masking tape off the windows. And I saw some light. And I was like, what days? I can't leave it's morning.

And they were like, it's Tuesday morning, dog. Kind of like the not at all version of that is that I was actually out on the, I was like the North Fork of Long Island. Really? And I was shopping. I wasn't shopping. My wife was shopping for some work attire at theory. And all of a sudden, my flip phone started buzzing from young CR being like, guess what?

Everything we ever liked about pop music has been just reduced and reduced and reduced like a glaze into this song by Katie Perry. And I was like, I was so excited. I feel like when they, when that hit, it was like what they shot in to spend a buck to win it, to win the triple crowd. Just imagine. Right now they could spend a buck one of the triple crowd. Imagine your boy walking out onto, I don't know what the street is, where the theory is at there. North Fork Street. Yeah.

On my Motorola trying to make real player work so I could hear a 30-second audio clip. The Katie Perry song from Z-Share. Yeah. I think you tried to send it to me and you couldn't do that then. No, you really couldn't. So anyway, there was just that idea of that one-to-one sort of passing of links, which is sort of like gone now. You know, it's all in your timeline. But, yeah, so it was, it was a, it'll be interesting to see what wins your social network is the, is the number one overall seed.

Can I put my, I put my, some on the scale a little bit for something? You can just vote in that, well, I did. I don't know if you know this, but voting works. I've heard, I've heard the opposite. My favorite trailer, maybe of all time, but definitely one of my favorites of all time comes right in that post- YouTube sweet spot. Pineapple Express. It is currently beating Cloverfield. As it should.

Express trailer is so exciting and the use of the MIA song is so perfect and when his foot goes through the windshield it is so purely funny yeah I love that movie but a lot of my goodwill for the movie comes from a perfect trailer I would also say I mean I didn't see where you ranked it and this is a old hobby horse for this podcast but the Rogue one trailer right is probably better than the finished product Rogue one teaser in the piece in the essay I said Rogue One teaser I said Rogue One teaser is my favorite Star Wars movie. I agree with you. Too bad they never made it.

No, but it's close. Let's quickly get through the Emmys. It's a little bit of old news, but I know that you got like, you were pretty fired up on Twitter. You were like, God is good. You know when I get fired up on Twitter, it's a good day. No, look, I feel, I woke up feeling differently that day. I'm not here for snub talk. I'm just not here for it.

I think it's important to look at the highs from a nomination list like this. And I think that there are many. I think that it's ridiculous to think that the voting body of any major mainstream award show is going to appropriately or correctly parrot the critical wish list. It's never the case. But the degree to which the shows that are loved by the Criterati or the Twitterati or whatever we are calling this hybrid space of great thinkers such as ourselves, it's represented very well.

I think that many, many deserving things were nominated, and people are saying Twin Peaks got snubbed. Twin Peaks got a few nominations. That's incredible to me. One thing that I learned. I don't know if you saw Twin Peaks. Yeah, that's my point. But it's kind of wild that got a nomination.

Are you crazy to think that a majority or whatever the plurality, I don't know math, but whatever number of Emmy voters would be required to, nominate Twin Peaks for the major categories. Do you think they watch that? Are you serious about that? The reason I love it is probably the same reason why most people couldn't get through it. And that's fine. That's totally okay. One thing that's been made clear to me since being out here and also being a little bit more involved in the other side of the business, the people who work in TV don't have more time to watch TV than anyone else. They don't necessarily have better taste than anyone else. one of the hallmarks of TV watching for a fan

is also true for people in the industry, which is you become a fan not just of an individual episode or an individual season. You become a fan of a show and you're on board, which is my positive spin on why there are constantly legacy nominees. Stranger Things Season 2,

by no measure was as good as Stranger Things Season 1, and I think even ardent defenders of the show would agree with that. Sure. Do I personally think it deserved a nomination for Best Drama Series, no, but I understand why it did, because the people who love the show watch the show the way fans do and felt enough of a consistency from season one

or at least enough things that they liked in it to continue to tick the box for it, partly because they love that show, and partly because, no, they didn't watch Top of the Lake China Girl or Twin Peaks or whatever else your favorite rapper's favorite TV show is. Sure. I think that that actually is where the tension lies, especially in drama, where drama feels like a little, bit more going through the motions rather than identifying specifically incredible seasons of work.

Yeah, the drama. I mean, here, the takeaway this year. And the drama nominees, it's outstanding drama. The Americans, the Crown, Game of Thrones, the Handmaid's Tale. Stranger Things, this is us in Westworld. I mean, let's just say it. I mean, the headline this year is the same headline as last year, which is, if you were to go by this list, consensus drama is in serious trouble. These are, it's wild that Westworld. It's also getting picked apart by the, ever-changing rules surrounding limited series. It is probably that we're seeing a... I think we saw a lot more.

I think some of the creativity that was so energizing about comedy maybe 18 months ago is starting to become a little bit baked into the plan now. Right. But I think that we saw a great creative leap forward with what you could do with a 30-minute episode and especially what you could do with comedy. Yeah.

And I think that the comedy nominees, which are Atlanta Barry, blackish, curb your enthusiasm, glow, marvelous, Mrs. Maisel, Silicon Valley, and Kimmy Schmidt, like, if you were just like choose one group over the other as like just straight up better TV, the comedy would be better. That is dynamite. It is a dynamite list. First of all, Atlanta rolled. Atlanta is far and away the best show on television, any category.

And Atlanta got, I don't know if I got more nominations than any other show. I haven't looked at the numbers, but it got nominated in every major category, Brian Tyree Henry, as he beats Hero Marai. everybody is represented up there and everybody should be. That's incredible. Barry is a small show. Yes, it's on HBO, but it is a relatively small, prickly, hard to pin down, challenging at times show. And it got a ton of nominations and recognition as it deserves.

Glow, which we're going to get to later, I think is absolutely genius and could easily be overlooked and was not. Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, we haven't even really talked about that show. I think that show is brilliant. I think that show is incredible. I told you I finished that, right? It's amazing. Yeah, I love that show.

The writing on that show, the performances. I mean, I think that Rachel Brosnan gives one of if not the best performance on television on that show. And she got nominated as well. And she got nominated. So this is, for me, this is a reason for good cheer, honestly. I think Issa Ray being nominated for Insecure. Cameron Britton getting a guest star nod for his role as, what's the killer's name on Mind Hunter? Oh, my name with the shoes.

Ed, yeah. Ed Kemper. The Americans getting the recognition that it finally got. Sandra O getting recognized for killing Eve, Ted Danson in the Good Place. These are, if the person got nominated or if the show got nominated or if they're writing, the show, that means they're paying attention. And I think it's worthy of celebration. It's pointless to get upset about an award show.

I'd much rather celebrate it. Yeah, I understand why you might be like, how the hell did Jody Comer not get nominated? Like, there's obviously things that you can be kind of like agitated about. And I don't necessarily think some of the things that got all. A lot of nominations were either at their best or particularly deserving. Yeah. But that's award shows. Yeah, that's award shows.

And I think Allison Bree is right up there with Rachel Brosnan, one of the best performances on TV going. She was not nominated. Now, I'm assuming she submitted as lead actress in a comedy, and Betty Gilpin, who was nominated, went for supporting. Betty Gilpin is also brilliant. And, you know, you just can't play that game of shoulds. You just can't with this. You know, Merritt Weaver got nominated for Godless. That means enough people know that she was incredible in it.

Dockery got nominated for Godless as well. I mean, how many people watch Godless? We don't know, but enough people to get someone over the finish line. And the Jody Comer thing, like, enough people, people know. People know what she's doing on that show now. And hopefully she'll be recognized next year. But Sandra O. getting nominated for a show that wasn't on anyone's radar in the months before it began, on a network that very few people watch or check for, it's a win.

It's a win for big stuff. Is there any show here that you feel like, what's the show that's going to benefit the most if it either gets with the exposure that comes along with the Emmys. Do you think that that still matters?

Yes, I think that Maisel. I mean, Maisel had a great showing at the Golden Globes. But Amazon, you know, Hulu stunned everyone last year with Handmaid's Tale winning and Hulu, almost without trying,

snatched the trophy that Netflix has been spending billions for. Amazon is ready to spend billions for. I think Amazon is going to go all in in terms of lobbying and promotion for Maisel regardless now that this is clear that this is a potential award show. Sure.

It is an award show show for them. But more people should be watching it. More people have access to it than they realize that their Amazon Prime subscription. And I think it's truly a show that many, many, many people of all ages could fall in love with. It's not challenging, but it's deeply pleasurable and very smart. I think Glow gets a huge boost from this because, you know, because they're so opaque with their numbers, it's very hard to tell what Netflix is prioritizing. Sure.

I could you could One could tell that they were happy with that show I mean there are billboards up It got renewed despite it's not that I had a soft presence But it didn't seem to have the cultural impact as other shows Once it gets this kind of recognition It goes into the master of nunbox Where it's getting more seasons

Because that has a different value to it Than the more mainstream popular shows I guess the only other thing I'd say would be that The dramas are what they are You're not going to believe that I'm going to say this I wish Ozark had gotten a drama series nomination. Not necessarily because it deserves it, but because, although frankly, it is much better

than a lot of these nominees, but we need something new in there. Yeah, I feel like if you wanted to have a complaint, the best drama feels like we're just shuffling chess pieces around the board. Yeah, there are two differences from last year. Better Call Saul was not eligible. It's premiering in two weeks, so that's not eligible. And House of Cards was nominated last year,

and obviously that was delayed for other reasons. So the Americans is in. And this is Handmade Season. two that got nominated. This is interestingly handmade season two that got nominated before it.

Which just ended a couple weeks ago. It just ended with a lot of people who were very much on the train at the beginning of the season jumping off the train.

Sure. Yeah, it'll be interesting but I just I think I just kind of reject the idea that this is stale thinking. It's an award show. You know, and they are ongoing

things. I mean, the Oscars every year you could say that we see the same people time and time again like Merrill Street, but the potential nominees are a clean slate every year and that's just not true

with that means. So the change is always going to be more incremental, but potentially more exciting on the margins. All right, we're going to take a quick break to hear from our sponsors. And when we come back, we'll talk about sharp objects, succession, and glow. Today's episode of The Watch is brought to you by Hotel Tonight. If you love to score amazing deals at incredible hotels, you will love Hotel Tonight. Hotel Tonight partners with hotels to help them sell their unsold rooms,

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That's S-H-U-D-D-E-R.com slash podcast and use the promo code W-A-T-C-H, the number 3 and the number 0 for a free 30-day trial. You will not be disappointed. All right, Andy, we are back. We're going to talk a little shining objects. We're going to talk a little bit of sharp objects, succession, and then glow. Sharp Objects is really interesting. I want to say that up top.

So obviously directed by Jean-Marc Valet from a novel by Gillian Flynn, written by Marty Knoxin, who worked on Buffy, has Dietland out now, worked on Madmin. Starring Amy Adams. Let's see how long I can just read through the cast and credits before I actually say something of significance about this show. You actually are saying an enormous amount of the show by listing its... It's got a lot of heavy hitters involved.

It's a major, major production. Yeah, and you can see it on the screen. So you can see every ounce of, you know, really pretty high-level, like, production value, given the fact that it's shot in an abandoned town somewhere, it's supposed to be Missouri. I'm not sure where they shot it. Although, let me just jump in here with, like, Mr. Industry over here. It's super hard to find a whole town where you can just film on the street.

I'm sure. That's actually what I was thinking the entire time was I was just like, and also you can tell usually when you're watching something. whether it's been being shot early in the morning, and it's standing in for later in the day because of the sun. They could have color corrected the hell out of this, but it looks like very still late afternoon. Like, they shut this place down. They did a beautiful job.

And if people want to know, like, how I'm watching things now, not as a critic, but as someone who's creating something, I'm looking at that. I'm like, look where they filmed, when they filmed it, and how the places intersect. I mean, we're going to New Mexico. go again this week, and the goal is really to find, like, one or two blocks or you could maybe set cameras up in different places at any given time, because all the other places are going to,

you know, you're creating something fictional. Right. You have to shut it down. This or shut it down, or piece together things by, you know, clever use of camera. Like they go around that corner, but when they come around the corner, they're in a completely different part of town. Now, of course, that's part of Sharp Objects also. I think just going from, you know, the always accurate Wikipedia, the show was filmed in

multiple places. It was filmed in California, but also Georgia. whatever. It's just, all of this is to say that the budget, even though it's not like a CGI show, but the budget and the production values and the investment in it are of the same caliber as the cast. Well, it's actually been a long time since I've seen a show where I think, I understand the sense of, I have a sense of place. And I don't mean that like, ooh, it looks hot. I mean, she spent so much time driving in her car that when you're watching, you kind of have a virtual map of wind gap in your head. Yeah, and how far things are from each other.

Yeah. So Andy and I are obviously talking about the first two episodes. I will say pretty much straight up, I find this show pretty silly and compulsively watchable. So, but what I mean by, silly has nothing to do with the subject matter, which is obviously very serious. But some of the basically gestures towards seriousness, I think fall a little flat. So in lieu of any actual, like, depth of character sometimes, I think they rely on very lush shots of Amy Adams listening to Led Zeppelin in a car.

And tons of other shows fall back on that crutch, and so it's not necessarily a unique problem to sharp objects. I think Amy Adams is quite good in this show. And I think that she is clearly, they are clearly like slowly wading into what is going to be a very dark pull of demons and trespassies. I mean, as someone, we're about to talk about succession in a bit, and as someone who is trying very hard to be patient,

newly patient with the development of shows, there is a marked difference in a project that had no need to make a pilot episode, for example. This show, although there is a remarkable amount of exposition and old TV jiu-jitsu in this pilot. And I mean that with nothing but praise. I mean, Miguel Sandoval, who's an actor I really have always liked, and I was happy to see him in this show. His role as like pushing her towards her adventure and then being able to be on the phone so that we can advance. And then literally having a wife is like, you better tell her the other thing. you were supposed to tell her, you know, like...

Like, this is all constructed immaculately in a very old-fashioned way, but still the show could be... It can begin with the burner off, turn on the burner, and doesn't have to boil until who knows when. Yes, so I think that there are parts of this show that I think are just really trying to build mood

and in some ways, I think, a little bit of time wasting in terms of... And not everything has to be this propulsive breakneck pace, especially in terms of... We've been talking for a while about how the new rules of television are that you've got to put everything you got up as fast as you can in terms of what you have on the whiteboard and the Raiders room because you don't know if you're going to have another chance to do it. And in this case, I feel like they have something they're working towards and they're taking their time getting there. And that pace is very intrinsic to the overall mood of the show, which despite the fact that I'm going to joke around about her listening to Led Zeppelin or whether anybody could actually drive a car with that much heavy. flowing through their bloodstream,

or whether or not, like, Chris Messina always seems to be in the bar she walks into, even though there's no extra, there's no communication going on between people. I still am, like,

weirdly, deeply engaged with this show. Did you know Kansas City is just outside of Hoboken? Did you know that? Like, I think Kansas City is the stand-in for basically Eastern Seaboard. I haven't seen someone so clearly

from the Eastern Seaboard since Tom. I'm Hardy in the Venom trailer. Yes. I'll leave it at that. He's chopping the garlic real thin. Real thin. Just with like a razor play.

That's what he's up to. I also want to say by way of praise, I love a show that has the consideration to cast well all the way down the line. I am here for Henry Churny. We're going to be talking about Mission Impossible next week. Do you remember him in the first one? Oh, yeah. I love this dude.

This dude used to show up. I don't have the numbers again. I'm not like a stats guy. Sure. No Billy Bean across the table for me. I believe Henry Churny was in every major studio release between the years 1994 and 2001. He definitely got chewed out by Alec Baldwin in nine films in the 1990s. He was the guy who was the guy wearing a suit in every movie. And he's wonderful in this in a very background role as Adora's second husband.

By the way, incredible house, incredible mansion. Yes. Any air conditioning going on in this place? Unclear. Yeah. I'm sort of dancing around the fact. Did you just like relying on Crossbreed? The slowness and the quality of it. And I noticed this, by the way.

I did read at least, I read some reviews from people that we like and respect a lot, like Alan Sepinwal, whose take was basically this, if you have your prestige misery TV bingo card, this checks every single thing within the first 15 minutes. But it's so expertly done, you can't really fault it for that. I am watching the show with a little bit of wish, I wish for a few other, I wish for some different notes being played. the house, let's just focus on the house and the family, Patricia Clarkson, who is a queen,

and I love seeing her get to really, you know, load up both barrels in the show. Patricia Clarkson is a great actress. Yeah. This is not my favorite Patricia Clarkson performance. No, because there is more than a little bit of this show that kind of wants to be Grey Gardens, you know, that kind of wants to be get out, quite frankly. There is something here that is screaming for high camp.

Or at least some... Elizabeth Perkins is ready to answer the bell. That's exactly right. My man, Captain Vickery, unable to tie a tie, but can really, really smoke that cigarette down to the butt. Like, he's ready to do it. But my only official criticism of the show, honestly, is I think I am, while recognizing his immense talent

and incredible track record, I think I'm ready for Jean-Marc valet to switch it up a little bit. he has the thing that he does, which frankly all great artists do. They have their thing that they're known for. They're calling cards. People listen to iPods? People listening to iPods in 2018.

No, his thing is those quick cuts in time and space and sound where we get these fleeting images of something else. In this particular, unlike some of his other work, some of those fleeting images are either memories or they are dreams. It's unclear. Or hallucinations. Or hallucinations. All the words that are showing up in different places.

But this is what he does, and he did this to great effect in Dallas Byers Club. He did it to medium effect in wild. He did it to hugely successful effect in Big Little Lies. I'm a little tired of it. And I find it not just disorienting, but a little show-offy while watching it. And that's the commitment that they made. That's the commitment to the bit so far in the show. But I wish that there was something a little bit quirkier or weird around the edges.

It's certainly interesting to see big little lies stuff become codified. Right. It's like a genre unto itself. Exactly. And to use, I think that it's fine to have people doing everyday bullshit as a character-building exercise. So, Shailing Woodley jogging and Amy Adams driving around. But that's not what I agree with everyday bullshit. I feel like Amy Adams is, her character is definitely like pushing the probability meter of winding up in a ditch.

Like, I don't understand, like, she definitely just drinks vodka all day long. All day long. And I feel like it's like, I get it, man. Like, she's definitely an alcoholic. But could she actually function? I had, I was out in the sun for a bit yesterday. And I was like, you know, you know, you get out of a, it was in a swimming pool and you get out and you're like, I'd love like an ice cold Pacifico. You know what I mean?

It's like, it's like mid after it's summertime. And then I was like, I'm going to have a beer. It'll taste good. And then I was like, let's just be really real with myself and my body and my age and my e-meter. I'm like, I think I need a cold brew. Like I think I need a like an ice. coffee. That's really what I need. Because if I have the beer, which I did, eventually, I won't go to sleep. And when she's just like, I'm so tired, I'm so tired. I'm going to have a nutter

butter and some absolute. And some Tito's. Yeah. It's like, do you think, I know that we have, and some of them have sponsored us and they're all, I'm sure, they're all great, great services, like your stitch fixes, your bomb fell, your blue aprons, or your healthy green chefs. Oh, you think somebody needs to disrupt getting Amy Adams drunk? Could you get, a duffel bag full of vices the way she does delivered to you. So like it's just an unmarked duffel full of like, you know, a hundred grand bars and many things of Kaluah and some paper clips. And it's just all there for you.

I still want to talk about sharp objects, but that is a very good segue to succession. It really is. Okay. But so last couple things about sharp objects. One kind of big picture serious, one not at all serious, if we're okay with that. And then you could tell me. I would actually like to know. I know we don't do it as a bit, but I am curious if you're in.

around. But the other thing I was thinking of when I was watching this was one of the ways in which our coverage of TV and our discussion of TV has advanced and matured in so many ways and changed, but there's one way that I think it still feels a little stunted. We were talking about Emmys. It used to be a joke, and I tweeted this joke a lot because it was available, that prior to this current era, if just anyone marginally known for being in movies showed up at the award ceremony, they would be given an Emmy. It was like red-headed... So you're saying Amy Adams can put the name on the trophy?

Well, for sure, but I'm past that. That used to be the joke about TV, is that they were so desperate to be taken seriously that we would just like, help itchino's here, give him everything. Right, right, right. Now everyone will do TV, so that argument is a little bit more moot.

But there is a feeling still that if anything is of elevated quality or ambition, we all should try to like it. Yeah. And we all need to celebrate this because not many good things happen in this medium. And I just want to say that's not true anymore. And I'm thinking that way, not to say sharp objects isn't good.

In fact, Sharp Objects might be the best version of this thing we've seen in some time, but it is decidedly not for everyone, which I respect. And so, but I do think that there are still some vestiges of, if it's coming from HBO, if it has the imprimatur of filmmaking or movies or high quality or serious subject matter, everybody better line up. It's an interesting point. I would also say that, um, It's going to get darker.

That's what's hard to believe. I've watched the next episode. Oh, you're ahead of me. So I've watched the third episode. And it's very strange. Like, it's good. I really like the show, but it is very, it's pretty pulpy. I wanted to ask you before we left, though, before we left it behind it.

Because I want to keep talking about it. I have another question, too, about it. We're not done. When do we think about the journalism? That's where I wanted to ask you about. You and I have been working, you know, journalism is a lofty word these days now that we're enemies of the American people. But it's a thing that we mostly did for a long time. And you still are, you're still in the mix.

I'm just, when you would finish an article for any of the August publications or websites that you have toiled for over the years, when you finally, like, you finished it, you got that nailed that nut graph, put the kicker on just nice and tight. And then you electronic mailed it to your area. editor, would you in the subject line just write article? No. I also, typically, in 2018, it's pretty rare that someone files with the body text cut and paste it into the email for a variety of reasons. Yeah.

Also, the idea seems to be that she is going there to do some kind of like enterprise, long form, like personal essay, but the first dispatch seems to be about 500 words long. Yeah, I mean, I feel deeply, I want to be clear about something. I am here for journalism jokes. I am here for wondering about the status of the HR department of the St. Louis Chronicle because there's some red flags in Camille's behavior. But I will also say that is someone who deeply believes in this as just storytelling principle and is also engaged in it myself, you get the person to the place.

It doesn't really matter. Yeah. You just need to get the person. person to the place and then the stuff happens. So I'm not really fact-checking this show. Oh, sure. But it's super fun when they try to engage with it.

It's what, yeah, like, what's her is she under contract with the newspaper? Like, is she getting paid every day? I don't say it doesn't seem like, what was she doing before he was like, here's your lifeline? And he's like flat out like she's not a good writer yet. Yeah. He's also

flat out dying, right? Like that's the subject. I mean, I think that that was all the pill bottles that are very much obvious in the background. Well, listen, if a character is coughing on a television show, there's not much real estate for just, oh, you're not feeling great today, why don't you put a cold towel on it? Yeah, I know. It's funny, like, the telegraphing of things is getting pretty, uh, it's really funny sometimes when they are unique gestures, like the people in the pool in succession being like,

jump in, jump, jump, jump. And you're like, this isn't going to go well for this guy. We want to talk about succession so badly. So you're in sharp objects. I'm all in on sharp objects. It feels, I think the reason why I am a little bit tense about talking about it is because it feels strange to speak lightly about something so heavy. Absolutely.

And about something that will obviously just get darker. Anyone who read me as a critic will know that I have a hard time engaging with things that are all one way or the other. And in fact, I think I would take it more seriously if there were moments, not of levity. This is not a comedy, but just a surprise or just change up the speed of the pitch, basically. That said, if you are just going to keep throwing 100 mile per hour heaters just at our solar plexus, best to do it for just six hours. Yes. All right.

Let's do quick, quick, quick, note on glow. Yeah, sure. We're not talking too much about glow today. I'm just behind. I just like between the World Cup watching other stuff, like I just fell behind on this. And I feel like did the listeners a disturbance by not keeping up with the prescribed chapter reading material? I just want to say for the heads that did their homework, we were supposed to watch, I think, four, five, and six. Or maybe that was for last week.

I've already lost our own assignment. But I just wanted to say that we were supposed to watch six. I couldn't help myself and went right into seven. The Netflix binge thing worked. Six, seven, and eight are fucking brilliant. They're incredible episodes of television. I think the performances are astonishing. I think they are so much, I mean, obviously I'm looking for a remedy after sharp objects.

They are so much fun. They have so many toys to play with, and you can feel them having fun playing with them. I mentioned before how great I think Alison Brie is in the show. It's great on two levels. I think she's giving a truly present and raw and alive emotional performance, but she also loves putting on a show. She is no stranger to jazz hands, and her enthusiasm for being on this show and playing this part and being with these other women is infectious in a kind of meta way

that is really, really invigorating and exciting to watch. I also just love the fact that they have people, like Kia Stevens who plays the character that also is known as Welfare Queen on the show. Yeah, Allison did a piece on her recently. I didn't, I missed the piece. I didn't know she was really a wrestler.

She's a great actor. She's terrific. I mean, the show has a, it's one of those things, like the joy of an ensemble show with such a deep bench and all building up to episode eight that there's been a lot of writing about, which is pure pleasure,

Episode 8 is the one where they probably circle it on the whiteboard before they got a second season. And they were like, if we could make an episode that was just the world of the show, what could it be? And they went for it. And it's very, very exciting to me. Look, this is a week we're talking about TV that's good, and this is good. Chris is going to try to catch up.

But also, invites are in the mail. We usually don't talk about this stuff until we get it booked. But Liz and Carly, who are the creators and showrunners of the show, invites in the mail. We are going to have them on to talk about these episodes. and just stare at you while they do it, if that's okay with you. Sure.

Okay. Succession. Let's talk about succession. I thought it was going to be really hard to top episode six because obviously it was sort of the first half of the season, Danuma. And you can even see going in, this is episode seven, Austrolets we're talking about. They set up like, you can see where this show can go

if they want to mess around and get involved in presidential elections. The scope of the show. Yeah, all these different little things. So we are coming off of the six episode where there was the coup attempt, Kendall's coup attempt. Didn't go great. Which failed miserably. And you very subtly, I thought, although I have heard some people say like this seems like a personality transplant is they've low-key kind of changed Roman's character like in three episodes. Yeah, they did some work.

He is so extra in the first few episodes. and then is in conjunction with Kendall plotting this coup and now is kind of like comic relief but very much in the background of the last two episodes. Also more empathetic, more like... Well, that's what I was going to say. So obviously I think in the first, when we first talked about this show,

and I have been really, really, really pro-Germy-Straung this entire time. And we had said that it was basically like Jeremy Strong's performance as Kendall was the first time since like, I haven't seen something this divisive since Groff and Mindhunter. Groff is like, I think Groff is incredible in Mine Hunter. You obviously think Groff's incredible in Mindhunter. But there are people who are like,

yeah, it's just so, there's something off about this. Well, we're just not used to seeing this sort of actor in this sort of role. And I think that Jeremy Strong is doing something very unique with Kendall. Oh my God. And I, you know, I mentioned to you, I was like, and I think that the way that they're using like his addiction issues are really interesting. And you were like, yeah, I'm sure that'll come up. They did last night.

So Kendall obviously is blackballed from the family. His father plants some stories about him that aren't true. And he goes to New Mexico where they all have all gathered to do this PR stunt family therapy thing. And initially he rejects the invitation, but then he goes down to New Mexico and goes on a bender, almost to prove Logan Wright slash fulfill this sort of doomed destiny. It can be read in a bunch of different ways. there's this really interesting idea that I've heard a lot of actors talk about when it comes to playing drunk

or playing high. And it's like, do you play someone drunk or do you play someone who is trying not to be drunk? And there's something about, I was really fascinated because Kendall is obviously a character and Jeremy Strong's performance is somebody who's gripping the wheel really tight. So honestly, this was the first opportunity

we were going to see to see the whole version of this character. when he fell off the wagon. The setup for how that happens where he arrives and you think, oh, is he going to crash the party? Is he going to go and stake his claim? And he just drives up to a bar and you can see it kind of fall apart in three steps. He asks for a non-alcoholic beer and gets laughed at.

He has a club soda. And then all he needs is that one little opening and hear about Cokehead over there and he's gone. But also one little anecdote. one tiny anecdote about fucking Connor and Alan Ruck's brilliant character performance being unable to deal with reality or emotions and a dying dog and paying someone money to give the dog a good life

slash shoot him in the head in the back of the parking lot and this episode is I think was absolutely brilliant it was completely riveting it was thrilling and it was affecting and entertaining and I'm so impressed by it. We've said from the beginning that this show would be kind of a game of inches. It would live or die on a series of decisions

that would have to be made about tone, about representation, about whose story you're telling, about what your way into the story is. And over the course of the first five or six episodes, this is flattering to myself because I'm tracking my own appreciation of the show, which really only came into flower in the fifth episode,

but those decisions were being made and groundwork was being laid for something that even I didn't realize was possible already in a new show. And every decision in this episode was considered and thoughtful and dynamite. Small decisions. When the celebrity family therapist shows up that he's wearing that silk ascot.

I know. Everything about the choice of actor and wardrobe. And the fact that he's just like, how do you want to begin? Everything about that all the way through what you're talking about with Jeremy Strong's performance. He didn't play high. He played relieved.

And that is such a small, and subtle and brilliant choice for this character who truly chase these addictions or chases the high because it's the only time he can relax. It's the only time he feels like the responsibility is not his, that this burden isn't his, that the failure is not his.

And we rarely see that because getting fucked up on a TV show is generally an excuse for the actor to go for it. Well, you think about even think about vinyl. Like you just think about the way that this has been you know, drugs and drug addiction has been depicted in television shows before and, you know, interestingly

enough, I would say that this one reminded me for obvious reasons of Jesse's dissent in Breaking Bad, but there's something about this that you're absolutely right. It wasn't about he was no longer

himself. He was finally becoming himself in his mind. And I thought that the scene when Roman comes and gets him was if you want to know why this show is interesting to me, it's because Roman wasn't, like, disappointed, nor was, it was consistent with who Roman was, and, like, him walking in, he's like,

are you guys smoking fucking crank? And the way that he, that whole scene plays where, like, they're just like, hey man, and it's just, like, three dudes sitting at, he's like a lot of wolf art. Yeah. It's just so specific to the world of this show. I thought it was just handled so well.

Let's also talk about how they're high. hiding the ball. Like one of the challenges of making prestige TV in an era where everyone is a critic, including us, who are critics sometimes are used to be, is you're always trying to hide the TV part of TV. And one of the challenges of making a show like this that is essentially a family drama, how do you get the family together? And we talked last week about how there are already been two big dinner scenes and one of them was Thanksgiving. The whole construction of this episode was immaculate from Stewie in the beginning pushing him off. this cliff into this. I mean, before that, there's the little bag of urine that's thrown to him. Yeah. To putting them all in this. Can we shout out to the guy who plays Stewie, by the way?

I'm all the way back into him. Getting them all together in this house so these things can happen. So the very thing that defines the show, which is that they are all working together and they are all related to each other, and they all love each other, and they all fucking hate each other.

And they are tied to each other, like anvils, is brought home. And then you can start an episode, and we have to give shout out here to Lucy Preble, who is the credited writer on the episode. And Miguel Artetta, who directed it. Miguel Artetta, who's a great director of, you know, favorite Miguel Artetta might be low-key, great movie, Cedar Rapids.

Really an underrated comedy with Ed Helms from a couple years ago. Lucy Preble is a playwright. She also did the TV show Secret Diary of a Call Girl. Every character on screen got a look. Yeah, this might been the best Shiv episode. Sarah Snook's performance in this episode, But Jeremy Strong should get all the attention. Sarah Snook is equal to him in every scene she's in with what she does with her face, with her reactions, with her sense of pace, which seems like maybe it's a word I'm borrowing from watching the World Cup.

But she knows when to modulate her performance and how to build it through the course of an episode so that when her father does level the double-legals of her. When he calls her a coward, you can see it's real. Like it really hits. It's real. To Willa, who is the kind of character who you introduce in a Thanksgiving episode. and I'm like, I don't know why we need this character other than to laugh at Connor. And then she's kind of amazing.

And part of the reason she's amazing is Justin Lupe who plays her. I just noticed her and Googled her a week ago because I was rewatching the end of Mrs. Maisel and she plays Midge's sister-in-law. Oh, wow. And it's an incredible performance. It's like lights up the screen and she holds her own with Brosnahan.

And I'm like, I wish she was on every episode. And now this is her as Willa and this. just a deep bench of actors, but just those little moments, you know, where Alan Ruck describes love is a virus that she should become exposed to. She asks if there's a Starbucks that he says we have pods.

Yeah. There are no wasted reps on the show, and it's become something. I can't believe how much I'm enjoying this. Also, I really want to shout out to Bogosian, who in billions basically plays, like, a hedge fund asshole, and now sadly broke the seal of the possibility

of a billion succession extended universe, but is a hedge fund guy in billions and now is Bernie Sanders on succession. It does remind me a little bit of the good wife and the good fight in the sense that it... This show could go on for 15 years because it could just do a... Just keep strip mining the headlines for plot points.

There's a lot of good stuff there. I hope it doesn't. And one of the reasons why... I hope it doesn't, is that I admire the way the show is not hiding Brian Cox or the power of the Rupert Murdoch-like figure. The first episode suggested that that might be a smart play. Look, The Handmaid's Tale, we're not going to spoil it, but is getting a lot of, is getting dinged for the way at the end of its second season. It very clearly, and some would say cynically, punted. It denied characters what many people are saying is that characters didn't behave the way the characters ought to.

to based on previous interactions and not interactions, previous observation of them on the show, and instead behaved in the way that a character in a show that needs to run for multiple seasons would behave to extend the plot. And that's often a time when people jump away. The first episode sidelined the most powerful character

in the show. It's like blinking out the sun right at the beginning and then see what happens with the planets. Also the most galactic actor in the cast. And then it brought him back. Yes. At full, full capacity now. Just unloading on everyone. I'm glad they're I'm glad they're letting him loose

and turning his dial to 11. I don't know if he can play that for four seasons. I'm glad it's not our problem to do it. When are we going to find out the story behind naming his kid Iverson? Thank you for coming to that. That was my last point. If they were trying to make me love the show more,

that would succeed. He named his child Iverson. We didn't know that before this point, right? No, a couple episodes ago came up. I think I didn't believe it. I think I didn't believe it. Yeah. Last point. This is both I guess I'm making a slight funny, but I also would like your help with this.

The last scene of this episode is Logan getting stronger, swimming in this heated pool that is not a diving pool, by the way, as we learned. But as he emerges from the pool, it suggests the existence of a sharp object's expanded universe. I thought it was Opus Day. Like he's in some sort of like self-flagellating kind of thing, yeah. Okay.

That was my guess. All right. Yeah. I don't, do we want this? I don't know. I mean, like, who knows what those scars are? Yeah. I mean, the camera lingered.

That was the last image. So that means something. Yeah. I mean, we have to find out. There's a lot to find out about Marsha. Right. Oh, my God. Wait, can we just also say the Marsha scene where she's like, she was murdered?

Not because she was a prostitute, but because of her restaurant investment went bad. Like, this is peak shit right here. I know. These are great scenes. I know. Okay. Yes. We need to know about Marsha.

Yeah, like there's Marsha stuff. I think that Shiv's participation in this citizens, you know, like in this presidential campaign is going to be fascinating. I just think it's like getting, I love this show. I love this show. I'm with you now. You know, this wasn't planned, man. I had no idea.

And I think people have listened to this podcast for a while. I wondered if I could ever love again. And the answer is, yes, I do. Not because she's a prostitute. because of a restaurant investment she made the way. We'll talk to you guys on Thursday. Great job, Baransky. Today's episode of The Watch is brought to you by Hotel Tonight.

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