The Watch - Nic Pizzolatto Has a New Home, ‘Parasite’ Five Months Later, and Dispatches From Sundance | The Watch

Episode Date: January 28, 2020

It’s a ‘True Detective’ reunion over at FX, with Nic Pizzolatto and Matthew McConaughey linking up to produce a drama series called ‘Redeemer’ (10:21). Andy finally saw ‘Parasite’ and is ready to crown it the best movie of 2019 (16:44). Plus, thoughts on the first episode of ‘Star Trek: Picard’ (27:15) and a report from the 2020 Sundance Film Festival (40:13). Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Guest: Juliet Litman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to The Watch, brought to you by AT&T, reminding you that when it comes to wireless networks, just okay is not okay. Hey, everybody. Thanks for listening to today's episode of The Watch. Me and Andy talked about a lot of things. We talked about the new Nick Pizzolato show on FX. That's coming with Matthew McCona, a true detective reunion. We talked about Parasite, a movie that Andy saw in a very timely fashion. And then we talked about the first episode of Picard on CBS All Access. In the second half of the show, it's a discussion that I had with Juliet Lit. over the weekend while we were at Sundance about the festival, about what people were talking about at the festival, some movies that we had seen there, and just how we watch what we watch when movies and TV shows or documentaries get a little bit of buzz going from the festival and what would be the best way to find them. And whether or not people should start thinking, a studio should start thinking about a different distribution model for movies that are starting to get like a little bit of buzz coming out of

Sundance. Andy and I are recording a live show tonight in Hollywood in honor of the premiere of his television show Breyer Patch. Obviously, Briar Patch is airing February 6th. If you're not lucky enough to be in Los Angeles and come to us tonight, you can listen to that episode, The Night Andy's Show air. So it'll be basically your recap episode for the lack of a better word on that Thursday. So we're really excited to do that and can't wait to see everybody tonight who's coming out. So let's get into today's show. I need sports to have to clear the room. Stand up and walk now. Hello and welcome to the watch. My name is Chris Ron.

I am an editor at the ringer.com and joining me in the studio, quite honestly, we're having a world group crisis. It's Andy Greenland. Should we focus on that or should we focus on other events of the day? This is a grab bag episode. I have a lot of stuff I want to get through with you. We got to talk about... Chris has that look in his eyes. It's all business. It's business month Tuesday, right? It's Tuesday. Sorry for missing yesterday. I was en route back from the mountains. I was in Park City, Utah for a couple of days. We did live rewatchables. What a flex if you had not been there for Sundance. Yeah, really, it would be weird if I was just there for the snowboarding. Amanda and Sean both were trying to encourage me in their separate ways, which are quite different methodologies, to go snowboarding for the first time.

And I did not do that. Did they? No, but Amanda really wanted to ride the ski lift just to see, you know, the mountains and stuff. Does she know that you have to ski off of the ski lift? No, you can just take a ride. You can do the whole loop. Because I used to do that when I would go summer tobogging in Vermont as a kid. You are a legend.

They do like the, they wax the bobsled tracks, and you can ride these, like, plastic sleds down, man. Look, I just want everyone out there in real America who is giving Chris grief for not understanding the real purpose of cruise control. What do you know about waxed tobogging down Purple Mountains majesty? See you at Stowe Mountain, bro. So here we are. It's Tuesday.

Isn't it great that after 24 years we're still learning about each other? How do you not know this about me? Well, you know, there... I was still going to Vermont when we first met. Yes. I knew... See, this is the thing. There's levels to this.

Okay. So, much like I knew that, you know, you were a competent backstop in your intramural days. Game manager. All of a sudden, pitch framing is your forte. All of a sudden, last week, I learned that you were, you know, a king among five foot four men.

Yeah, that's right. And so I didn't know the, you know, I didn't know the dedication. Similarly, I knew you used to go to Vermont. in the summers. But in my, in my understanding of it, and maybe this is just the content you curated for me, that was the time for you to get just inordinately and uncharacteristically hype on obscure uncanny X-Men stories. Yeah, well, I had a driver's license in a lot of time at my hands. And so, so this is when, people know the story, but this is when Chris would, like, drive into the town where there was a payphone to tell me that Cyclops was one of the chosen

12 that would, like, carry forth the seat of Xavier into the new era. And I was like, bet. I guess we're just going to be comic fans now. That's right. And I would just like, you know, just get back into it and then practice my takes. And you'd come back and you'd be like, no, man, I'm into wax tobogganing. So your revenge is to leave me hanging until the very last second before our live podcast tonight at the premiere of your television show. Today's a double podcast. And I've asked you 73 times, what are you wearing on Tuesday night? So great. And you keep being like, TBD, exclamation point. Well, there's a lot of levels...

You have the resources. You have, like, people who work under your umbrella. I don't have an assistant. In the big green walled tent, there are people who are thinking about how you look in a jacket. That's not fully true. I think that they probably... This is generally correct to assume that a man of a certain age can physically put appropriate clothes on himself. Sure.

You just... You won't give me, you won't tell me what we're going to wear tonight. And I just don't want to show up looking like Neil McCauley from heat. And you're just like... I'm dressing like Wayne Grove. Yeah. A couple things. I'm sure our most dedicated listeners are like, this is classic Andy.

He's just a chill bro up and down the board. He doesn't care about stuff like this. He doesn't stay awake with any kind of anxiety or concern. Yeah, it's not about the looks. So it's really just... It's about story. listeners and say that's not me. I am very concerned about what to wear tonight.

And, you know, this is breakout, fill the Walt Disney Hall downtown with the world's tiniest violin symphony orchestra. This is that weird middle ground that to be, as aforementioned man of a certain age, is to know at once two things. One, no one cares what we're wearing and no one will ever notice or comment on it. All we can do is fuck up. two, this space, this public podcast space, undefined territory. When I was at TCA, when I was at TIF, or whatever, you wear a suit.

And as everyone knows, the Greenwald brand, suit with sneakers. I know. Everyone loves it. I know. This is perched a little bit between, you know, formal and casual. So I basically think that I'm going to wear a fubu track suit. Yeah. Yes.

I am going to dress like mace, circa. 1996. That's right. Do you think Esmel would be disturbed if we showed up looking like the cover of diplomats for? I'm going to dress like Cameron, yes, but not dipset-era Cameron, a horse and carriage-era-camera. I'm going to wear... I'm going to wear overalls with no shirt. A bandana.

A bandana and carry a large sledgehammer. Just to get my point across. What I'm saying here is... You're really... You're driving crazy. I can't believe you would tell me. I don't know. I have a lot of clothes in my car.

All right. Look, everyone can know this. Tonight, people are especially who are coming tonight, to this Briar Patch event we're doing here in Hollywood, a lot of my good friends and colleagues are coming. Our costumes head, Risa Garcia, who is a wonderful person and a genius, will be there. And after we leave here,

and before I go to the studio to get back into mixing episode 105, I'm going to her house where she has a suit jacket that she had bought for me and fit for me for another press event, and I'm going to go try it on. This is a classic sword in the stone type tail.

Okay? The jacket is Excalibur. I am Arthur. I guess you're Merlin Adjace. Me? Yeah. What if I'm Lancelot? Oh, shit.

So then when I have this secured, then you'll know. But, you know, do people come... We're an audio medium. Yeah, that's the thing, is that, like, I feel like I could wear what I'm wearing to work, but I just want to... I don't want to be the one guy who's, like,

who's dressed like a Wilco guitar tech at a game, at a night where, like, everyone else is wearing suits. I'd like to remind you that one of our guests tonight, and I think we can announce this, is our great friend, brilliant actor, Jay Ferguson. Yeah. Jay came to... Is he wearing a full cowboy's outfit?

Jay came to ADR last week wearing clothes. Okay, let me take that word back. That's a big word for what he was wearing. He was wearing a well-used dead-in-company t-shirt. And he was wearing sweatpants that, like, were kind of like...

It was distressed. The whisper of sweatpants. Sure. And here's what he said to me. He had planned... He said, I opened up my drawer this morning and I looked down at my Dallas Cowboy sweatpants and I was going to wear those.

So he put forethought into which sweats. And then he thought, no, no, they don't deserve it. So what I'm saying is he will likely have his hair in a top knot. It doesn't matter what we do. Okay. All right. I feel better now. I'm wearing a tuxedo.

I have some stuff I want to talk to you about today. Number one is some news that came across my wire this morning. Mm-hmm. Here's the headline from the highway reporter. It's exciting. Chris, when I arrive here, late. Chris is sitting here with laptop open. He's got the agenda set.

I've got the map. Okay. Dateline January 28th, 2020. That's today. That's day. True Detective Reunion. FX orders Matthew McConaughey drama from Nick Pizzolato. What?

Whoa. It's called Redeemer, a drama inspired by Patrick Coleman's novel, The Churchgoer. Quote, created by Pizzolato, Redeemer stars Matthew McConaughey as a former ministered turned dissolute security guard, whose search for a missing woman in Texas leads him through a corruption and criminal conspiracy as his past and present impact and entwine around a mystery

of escalating violence and deceit. Fantastic. Where do I put the tattoo on my throat? What does it say? Does it say Redeemer? Does it say true detective reunion? FX has the fewest letters. Yeah, that's true.

So I'll just do FX. You got that. I'm very excited for these guys to go together again. This essentially just sounds like what they would have done had they ever just done a true detective season for together. Right. I support.

I support Nick Pizzolato. I think this sounds great for everybody involved. Yes. I feel like you're fishing. This is first reformed with guns. Like great. You're fishing for something. First reformed with, well, first reformed with like a security nightstick.

Yeah. Right. I'm sure he'll find a gun. I don't think he'll be like, I only have this baton. How am I supposed to, how am I supposed to? How am I supposed to grapple with this escalating violence and deceit? Nick Bitsilado's gritty reboot of Paul Blart is off to a rollicking start. Well, I think there are a couple things here.

One is it's a pretty cool and aggressive play by FX. One thing that we haven't... Well, I guess we sort of talked about it when it was announced, but this seems like the first shot across the bow of what new post-Disney merger FX can be. Right, because they essentially, I mean, Nick, this is the end of his relationship with HBO, I would imagine. Never say never, but it certainly suggests that he was not under any kind of overall deal because it would have ended up there. Potentially they bid on it and were outbid, which is also interesting. But does a deal like this happen before FX is on Hulu to the degree that they are now planning to be on Hulu?

Which isn't to say it couldn't happen because FX was obviously bagging gigantic stars left and right for projects like Fargo and stuff. coming, this is America miniseries that looks great. But for someone like Pitsilado, who has been granted an enormous amount of creative freedom at the place that is known for either offering or indulging, depending on your point of view, full creative freedom like HBO, to go to a place like FX and be told things like, this is great, but we have to make sure to write five act breaks and you have to keep it at a 42-minute running time for commercials. And maybe we'll do another version later, you know, for streaming. That's got to be creatively frustrating and the kind of thing that's...

If that is indeed what happens, you know? Yeah, I mean, there are ways around those things. I mean, this is something that I'm experiencing now, too, where for Briar Patch that we're making two versions of every episode, we're making an act break version. And then there's one where Rosario drinks Snapple every five minutes? Well, that's for kids. That's for USA kids. Then there's a seamless version that is what will live in the future when the show's

streaming or whatever. So there are ways around it, certainly. But to be able to do it, it makes it more, here's what I'm, I guess what I'm trying to say is it fully makes it a more lateral move. I think FX was paying competitive salaries to movie stars and to creators for a while now, but I think this is, this is a big, this is a big spot. It's a big deal. Okay, so that's the one piece of news I wanted to go over.

Can we talk briefly about Sundance? Because you had never been before. Yeah, it was, I think I had a very unique experience just because I had a couple of things I had to do. And then obviously on Sunday that Kobe News happened. So that was sort of the energy of that day

kind of went in a different direction. I only saw really one movie, honestly. It's like that first weekend is really packed and there's a lot of parties and it's a lot of really competitive getting into screening stuff.

Because the theaters are sort of spread around this town so there's a shuttle system that really works well. But you just kind of have to know how to play it and know exactly what time you're showing

up and like where you're going. And so much of it is aimed at the audience that's not there so that a movie like Zola, which is 824's big, big release, plays the opening weekend. And it will continue to play over the next week and has. Yes. Yes. But the goal is to have seen it first and have your opinion first and share your opinion and have it pop. Right.

And have everybody come out and say, this is it. You know what I mean? Sundance also seems to, and we talked about this a little bit on big picture, I think. But it, you know, the one thing that I saw that got acquired was this Andy Sandberg comedy Palm Springs. I just saw that for a lot of money. I think Hulu bought it, right? Hulu, neon is involved.

Was neon the people, did neon make it or did neon acquire it with Hulu? It was the biggest sale ever by 69 cents, and it was a joint announcement from Hulu and neon. And neon is slushed in cash. Neon is flushed because of parasite. Speaking of which. Which we'll get to. But six months late.

What was your read on? on it as a cultural event, I guess, or as an industry event, because this is not new territory to say that, oh, it's not about the movies anymore, man. It's not pure. But who knows if it ever really was just about the movies, but you were experiencing it as a visitor

not there to see all the movies and report back. Yeah, I think that there was probably a time when it was a lot more about independent films finding distributors, and now it seems to be a lot more about small, our distributors or even bigger distributors showing off their kind of high-end wares. I was, you know, I mean, like in any one of those things, you're always going to just kind of be inundated with like the presence of corporations, which is what it is.

I mean, it's 2020. I don't really expect anything else. There's a lot of like Chase Sapphire nightclubs and, you know, it feels like you were a little bit in Futurama sometimes when you're walking up and down the street and everything is just so heavily branded and stuff like that. But I guess that's what it takes to put on. event like that. Were you invited to any gifting suites? No, I did not get to go any gifting suites. What was your most exciting sighting, whether it was someone you spoke to or did not speak to? Joseph Gordon Levitt, like, going pretty much unacknowledged walking down the street. Really? Yeah, it was pretty good. Wow, what's he doing?

Just walking. I don't even know. I didn't know what he was there for. Maybe he was just there to check out some shorts. I have no idea. Short films? Short films. Because it seems like it was cold. Check out some docs. Who knows? That's another thing is that, like, as somebody who doesn't watch a ton of documentaries, I felt like, you know, there was a lot of like people who are like this doc this doc I'm running off like I'm seeing three or four things Dick Johnson is dead seem to be like the thing that people were most talking about. Sean was blown away by that. It's a documentary by this one, I think her name's Kirsten Johnson.

She made camera person. Okay. And it's a doc about her father and is grappling with the possibility of his or the likely, you know, the inevitability of his passing at a certain point. But it's supposed to be really like inventive and creative and zany. Did Sean Fantasy go skiing? No. Has he ever gone skiing?

Is he a ski lord? I think he skied before, but Sean was like locked in, man. Sean was in the Matrix. Sean was seeing all the code. Yeah. Watching him at work at a movie festival and watching him like plot the, I'm going to nail three today, I'm going to nail four to it. It's like really like, wow. God, you can hear Jimmy.

Wow. Yeah. Let's talk about parasite. I was going to say, what's it like to love to watch movies? This is one of our gray annual traditions, which is. I'm one for nine, baby. Which is kind of like. Spring training for Andy lasts 11 months of the year.

And then you get one month where he becomes Kaye de Cinema. I mean, let's also frame this that the window opened, like the narrowest windows suddenly appeared to see a film. Because Sunday night, look, Sunday night's outsider time. Sunday nights at time when my wife and I like to cuddle up on the couch and watch Bill Camp and the rest of his merry band. of character actors of uncoco's

solved the crime and then I got a message from the slopes saying Monday recording was off you were traveling no way we could do it don't worry about it so I was like

you know that well to our window during which we were going to maybe get up a couple times and get snacks and then talk but also watch the outsider it's free and clear it's free and clear my bride

let's fire up this screener And Did your wife put a veil on? To become married to cinema? There was She's already an industry bride. You know what I mean? Industry widow.

Married to the game. Yeah, there was some light Bong cosplay involved. You know, I dressed up as the train from Snowpiercer, the only other character from a Bong film that I'm familiar with.

It was a longtime Bonghead. You know. A Bong Ripper. You can even say. I love that. And, you know, only Joe Biden loves trains more than I do. So when I found out that my two interests were colliding and that 2012 masterpiece, look, let's just focus on the present.

Have you put your kids on any boards of directors recently? Look, I watched, let's focus on the present. I watched Parasite. Uh-huh. And I'm not saying this because I am a lazy person with a lot to do. Do I have to see the other eight? Because this is the best movie of the year. One thing that's cool about you only seeing four movies this year and two of them being animated is that the other two, you're just like, that's the best movie ever made.

Book Smart and Parasite are two of the best movies I remember seeing. Literally, both reviews of adult films that you've given me, not adult films, but both moves of films that are not... The other ones I share on Letterbox. Are not children's movies. You have given unconditional two thumbs up four stars. Oh my God. Put this in the AFI Hall of Fame. I loved it.

Does anyone else know about these? movies? Yeah. They're great. So you haven't seen Once Upon a Time in Hollywood? No. You haven't seen Marriage Story.

No. Have a screener. Have Netflix. You watched the first 40 minutes of Irishman? Whatever episode one was. Uh-huh. Okay.

Would love to see more. Would love to. Mark me down as interested. Like, you know, they have like three options on Facebook invite. Yeah.

Interested in attending. Okay. We'll let you know. Maybe I'll wear a jacket. Maybe I'll wear a sweater. You don't know yet, Chris. I mean, I'm going to harvest this. This is a good identity for me.

Man of mystery. You love piracy. Yes, and before, I know people have been waiting six months for me to say a movie they all love is great. Guess what, guys? Good call by you. You're right. I was proud about one thing, which was that I remained completely spoiler-free.

I knew nothing about it. To the point where I was a little confused at the beginning. And then I remembered like 45 minutes in. I was like, I feel like the word basement was used. once. Oh, yeah? Then I was like, oh, there it is. There it is.

I mean, I don't have anything to add to the discourse other than to say that this movie is an absolute masterpiece. And it's so funny, which is something that I wasn't keyed into. Sure. I was ready to watch a, you know, a keenly observed penetrating psychological thriller. But this shit was hilarious. And the performances are so phenomenal and joyful. and it's the kind of movie.

And honestly, I think one of the reasons why, again, from the way outside, remember that onion column Jackie Harvey's the outside view or the guy knew nothing about Hollywood and was making observations? That's me. I can fully understand why it has this momentum and why it's found mainstream appeal because the last movie that I watched, A, yes, too late, and B, somehow having protected myself from the hype, was Get Out. and the comparisons that I would make to the movies

is both were exhilarating to watch. Sure. Both felt there's a kind of circling the drain or inevitability in thrillers or suspense films or whatever you want to call them that there's a version of it that keeps me away from a lot of movies like that where it feels either overly manipulative

or nihilistic or aggressive. And then this is the opposite where everything, even as the circumstances go down, your enjoyment is ratcheting up and up and up, because you're so thrilled, and every leap he makes feels like the wind is at your back because you're making the leap too. You're ready for that next stage of this adventure or of this, you know, horrific story. Yeah. Just a total pleasure to watch. And do we make movies about class anymore in this country overtly, or are all movies about class because they're all just about

$200 million spent on rich people playing dress up? I mean, I think that the Fast and the Furious series really gets into it. It might. I am actually legitimately asking. Do we make movies about class in America? I'm not saying Ken Loach. Yes. They do.

I think there are a lot of independent films that do get into the issues of class. But I don't think that it's been really interesting to watch the reading of Parasite as essentially a story about class from the states. You know what I mean? Like that I feel like that is the thing that I have heard most from American critics

is responding to, this is a story that we don't see a lot in America. if at all, yet it feels incredibly relevant, you know, the ideas of like how ambition can turn into greed and turn into evil and the corruptive forces of money and the, like, the idea of, like, transitioning across this class spectrum and how corrupting that is for people's souls and whether or not people are, you know, corrupt in the beginning or that something about being in touching distance of stability or wealth makes them corrupt is amazing. Well, also that it doesn't, the humor makes an enormous difference.

There's a joyfulness to the movie and to the performances. This family is hilarious and perhaps a little overshary, but they love each other. And they seem to enjoy being with each other, and they're supportive of each other. And that alone makes a difference, as does the fact that this is not a movie about the nobility of their struggle. It's just a movie about them. Yeah. And all the little pieces along the way, like, even from their relatively challenged, position, they are still

better than the guy who's pissing on the street and ready to, you know, the scorn slides down the mountain, basically. I think one thing that I also really loved about this movie is that it is like the full realization of a city in a film. The way that that Bogg kind of visualizes

and situates you in a city which I've never been to Seoul. I don't know that that's what Soul is looks like or is how it... So almost the entire movie was constructed on sets. That house doesn't exist. Right. But I just even mean like the, like, even that running through the city and the rain and how it's like this descent into kind of like these circles of hell essentially that ends up in like a river of shit. You know, it's like the way in which he kind of like visualizes where these people live and even they have like this festering tumor in the bottom of their house.

You know, like everybody has like the way that there's like this physical manifestation of what happens when you. you achieve this in your life when you acquire this much wealth, like, and how what you have to build it on top of? I love the movie, too, and I mean this very sincerely. Like, this is take this with all the salt, all the grains. I'm not even joking that I am certainly not a film scholar, and I have not watched many movies recently, as people know. So I don't mean this to sound ignorant, but I did watch this movie relatively close to

listening to Martin Scorsese on Fresh Air, which is a great interview that he did. that Terry Gross did with him. And he's telling, I mean, he... Did she ask him to listen to Adam Driver singing? No, he sat through the whole thing. He, this is something he talks about all the time and has been talking about for 40 years, but it was interesting to hear it in the content,

recently, again, and then to watch this movie, where he talks about his education, not just in cinema, but in the world through cinema. And, you know, growing up at an age when the Apu films from India were shown on Channel 11, I guess, right? or Ozu's films from Japan. And there's an international cinematic language being built brick by brick, film by film. And it gave him access both to the love of his life in cinema, but also the larger world.

Sure. And thinking about Parasite as a absolutely global movie that is 100% a Korean film as well. Yeah. It's not Americanized. You know, there was always – and like the films of Wang Karwai, you know, 10, 20 years ago, weren't, quote-unquote, Americanized either. but a lot of the coverage of them and the way they were received or at least translated to us at the video store was like

this guy listens to jazz also and gets it. And like this is like a, his loving homage to great Hollywood romance just happened to be set somewhere else. Just happened to be set somewhere else. And like Christopher Doyle and like, yeah, right. Exactly. And what I love about this movie is it's so vital and entertaining and alive and has something to say to everyone in the world about the world today, but it's so deeply rooted in place also.

It felt like a, I'm struggling articulating it, but it felt both individuated and specific, but also connected to a larger, global story that is particularly relevant at this moment and worth chasing. So, absolutely. Guys, hashtag five months ago, go see it. I loved it. Let's talk a little bit about that first episode of Picard before I let you go.

Oh, yeah. So last week, from one of my better parking lots, I was talking about how excited I was to watch the show. I'm in, I'm going to watch more of them. But I found the first episode fascinating, not entirely for the reasons that I wanted it to be. I mean, start with the top. I love Patrick Stewart. I love his performance.

I love him walking gruffly through vineyards. I love that they had him sort of try and talk French. Because the character's always been French. With no evidence of that whatsoever in any other aspect of his life. I was thrilled with all that, and it was really fun. It's basically Logan without Logan. Well, but not even. I mean, it's interesting that the comparison, and I think it's the right one to make,

is to a relatively successful, classed-up superhero movie. One of the things that I thought after watching this, and actually this was also both of us, my wife and I both watched this one together, we had the similar observation, which is that there's a lot of stuff here that could be really interesting

and not just really interesting from a Star Trek sensibility, but from a TV sensibility. Particularly when you think about the fact that Star Trek, for many, I guess increasingly few because I was going to refer to the original series. One of the things that was so resonant about the original series was that it was a really gripping mirror to society, but told through this sort of genre lens, right?

And it dealt with all sorts of issues that were pretty forward thinking for the 60s, whether they were politics, class, race. And Star Trek was really able to navigate those, that treacherous terrain in a really, inspiring and impactful way. And there are pieces in this show that suggest a passing interest in how our society might be reflected, whether it's a loss of faith in institutions, cynicism, a sense of isolationism or xenophobia creeping into what otherwise seems like a perfect society or an advanced society.

But that's not, at least through one episode, that's not what the new Star Trek series is about. what the new Star Trek series seems to be about is the same thing that all late stage massive IP franchises are about, which is themselves. And that didn't surprise me, I guess, but it left me feeling a little bummed out and a little less engaged

than I had hoped to be. Because ultimately, there's all this rich text for, especially with an actor like Patrick Stewart, like what is, who, he's Ahab now, or who is he? I don't know, he's Colonel Kurtz. He could be anything.

And they could tell any story they want about what he once believed in something and what's happened and his relationship to it. But ultimately, I think it's about Data's daughter. Yeah. And that makes sense

from an IP management perspective. But I wish these big franchises had the, I don't know whether I want to say, optimism or guts to be about something larger than themselves. Well, I think that often, this is a really good,

this is a really good point because I think that this series, apparently, because when I watched it, I watched it and I enjoyed it, And then I went and read about it. And I was like, oh, I guess there's a bunch of stuff that I forgot. Like, I didn't know that the Romulan supernova is mentioned in the first JJ Abrams Star Wars, Star Trek.

So there was like some timeline or whatever. You know, I know that there's been these timeline splits in Star Trek so that there can be things happening at the same time in different places. And that Chris Pine can play the same part. Sure. But I found myself like sort of like, oh, there's a lot of stuff I need to go check because I couldn't remember how next generation ended. I had to go see that, and I had to go figure out. It ended them playing cards. I know, and that was, I thought that this was, like, really well written.

I think you can feel the touches of, like, a very literary writer's room and a really, like, smart. And people who are incredibly, like, interested in making ordinary interactions in these sci-fi shows can sometimes be very wooden. And I think that they tried to make them as kind of human and as interesting as possible. I think the thing that I was really reacting to was the fact that I'm just, conditioned to feel like at the end of a Star Trek episode to be like that's that's the end of the episode right and this was very much like tune in next week you could feel or not even tune in next week it was more like this is also very bingy you know like when you get to the end and you see for anybody who's uh i guess if you're listening to this and you this is obvious spoilers it'd reveal

something but there's like there's a board cube in space and you're just kind of like oh shit you want you want to hit play for next week and i think that that was not necessarily how Star Trek The Next Generation was designed when it was on TV. No, it was a very big deal if there was ever a two-part episode. That felt like epic. Otherwise, it was just reset, reset, reset.

This pilot, I mean, you can't tell anything from this, but a lot of cooks in the credit kitchen. And I don't, you know, in Shaybon, I think, Michael Sheaubon, the novelist, who is ultimately credited as showrunner for this season, not returning for the second season. It's already been renewed.

I think he has a story by credit or something on this. There's five people with story by credits So a lot of cooks getting this recipe put together, and then who actually did the baking and cooking, well, we'll see. And so it'll be interesting to see if his hand feel stronger in the episodes to come or if the franchise's hand feels stronger. It's a pleasure to watch, but I did have a little bit higher hopes for it. Although I do think Issa Brioz, who plays mysterious offspring of data perhaps, is really good. Yeah, she was good.

And I guess the question that it brings up is this idea of, well, two things, of franchise stewardship, which is something we talk about a lot. And I was thinking about these reactions I had to Picard when I was reading the news that season two of the Mandalorian may help backfill Palpatine's survival. Like, because the Mandalorian, well, two things about it makes that, I make me believe that report. One, Mandalorian is successful, and people like it, and there's good will. So put the thing that people didn't like, bake it into the cake that people liked, and maybe they'll accept it more. But it makes it a sturdy vessel to communicate this. But also remembering that all of these pieces, whether you're branding them as, like the card, like the high-minded prestige version or the big-budget movie version that Noah Hawley's directing now, or the Starfleet Academy show that they're putting together.

They're all just pieces on the larger game board, and they're all there to support each other and to sell something and to communicate a larger brand strategy, which is not really the fun way you want to think about this stuff. Did you see that we were, we had said, oh, Kenobi, like, it'll be fine. The day we said it. And then I had to go record like a top to be like, man, they're redoing this. Not fine.

No, it's not fine. Now, you and McGregor has come out since then. It's actually not as bad as it sounds, and, like, we're happy with it. Let's definitely trust him on that, on the red carpet. The last thing I was going to say, just purely from a business point of view, because I did sign up for CBS All Access. I got mom reruns for days. I saw a report somewhere or someone's voicing an opinion on Twitter that it would make a lot of sense.

Someone's voicing an opinion on Twitter. It's weird. It happens. I also saw a movie. That CBS would be smart to do a broadcast window of some kind for... Yeah, they did that with a good fight, where they re-showed the first season on CBS. I strongly disagree with this and don't understand it at all. Not from a consumer perspective because people should be able to, I mean, I understand why a consumer would be like, why do I have to sign up for, you know, if I'm not interested in watching NCIS reruns forever, why do I have to pay extra to watch Star Trek?

But the whole reason why Star Trek is booming again and has Alex Kurtzman, who has a, you know, long track record of making shows in charge of this universe, is precisely because CBS Viacom, the whole larger company. it was like looking in their library and they're like, what do we have? Yeah. Okay, Star Trek is a thing that we have. So we got to keep it alive. We got to pump money into it, pump attention into it. And then how are we going to get people to start thinking of CBS as something you pay for? Well, what we'll do is we'll invest in the thing that has the most diehard fan base that will likely pay for it because they can't get it anywhere else.

It's just a smart strategy. Sure. You know, and I don't know of any sense of what the numbers are for something like DC Universe, which is a paid subscription service that exists. Yes. has a reportedly very funny and good Harley Quinn cartoon run by a friend Justin Halpern. I can't see it, but I don't have DC Universe. But I think people do. And again, it's like you're sort of teaching a generation of consumers to pay for certain things

or to get used to paying for certain things by offering them something that they are passionate about. So why would they then put it on CPU? Why would you – I don't really know other than like diehard Christine Beranski fans' respect and diehard Star Trek fans, what is the sales pitch for CBS All Access right now in the world? Sure, especially if they're going to be like, but like, don't worry because eventually it'll show up on linear. Yeah, well, we'll show it on showtime or something. Oh, which you have to pay for too. What, capitalism, am I right?

We can wrap it up there, Parasite. I've changed. Andy and I obviously doing this show tonight. How are you feeling about it? I'm excited. I'm actually excited. You're excited. I have nothing to lose.

Oh, my God. Monster. Well, this is like Greenwald when he gets like nervous about flying and I'm like, you have a one in one thousand. chance, man, don't worry about it. It's you and the great Eva Anderson, my friend, who was the co-EP of the show and number two in the writer's room, just has like this knack for like, like, she's coming tonight. And if I see her before, we'll have a nice conversation,

we'll chat about something, we'll see our friends in the writer's room, all of whom are coming. And then as I turn to go, she will grab me and say, hey, hey, and I'll say yes, and I'll turn. And then she'll, like, make a gesture like she has a secret to tell me, and then she'll whisper into my ear. You freaking out, man? It's right.

We can always turn it into NFC talk with me and Kim Dickens and Jay Ferguson. So tonight, Andy and I are recording this live podcast. It will be available for listeners after the premiere of the first episode of Barrettach. When is that? February 6th. So that's going live. And yeah, I can't wait for people to see this show. I think it's really good.

That's so nice. Yeah. Thanks, buddy. How many have you seen? I've seen three. Okay. All right. Plus what you've shown me, like the other stuff you showed me.

Plus what I saw I get shot. I have to learn. Plus my cut that I've been working. on separately. Release the Ryan cut. I can't wait for that. We'll talk to you guys on Thursday. Sure.

Yeah. You want to talk about outsider on Thursday? Well, you know, we'll see. I don't like to commit now. I know, because you got eight more best picture movies. And I don't know what I'm wearing. Jojo Rabbit Pod, coming at you.

I don't even know what I'm wearing tonight. You know what I mean? You can't box me in. My conversation with Juliet Lippman from Sundance is coming up next after a quick break. Today's episode of The Watch is brought to you by Simply Safe. Simply Safe home security is like getting commercial-grade enterprise-level security for your own home. Think about the security Fortune 500 companies use. This is exactly the kind

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Must be at least 18 years of age to enter for official rules. Visit www.gofmore.com. That's Go44.com. Bank UnitedNA member FDIC, neither Twitter nor NFL entities have offered administered endorsed or sponsors. this week takes in any way. All right, now I'm joined by Julia Litman. We're recording here at Sundance TV HQ at Sundance

at the Sundance Film Festival 2020. Hello. Gosh, Julia. Okay, so I think we'll probably wind up recording a couple of these over the course of the weekend. So consider these dispatches from the front. Oh, wow.

Loose, like just kind of like loose conversations about what we've seen and heard here at Sundance. Hemingway asked. You know, so I was in this bar yesterday with a couple of our colleagues, not watching a movie. I was watching the Australian Open, actually. Oh, lame.

Okay. Shots at the Australian Open. Sorry. I take it back. I support Australia. It's a tough time. And we were talking about this thing that's been coming up a lot

in the NBA this week. And I know you were a passionate NBA fan, which is basically like the experience of watching it right now because a lot of it has become homogenized by the fact that all these teams are shooting three-pointers throughout the game. Right. So a couple of like anecdotal reports suggest that like

people are just like looking at their phones more because like every offensive play is the same. But the thing that's kind of cool about going to like a film festival. So I was already thinking about how we watch what we watch. But the thing that's cool about going to a film festival is that they really do put what you're watching at like the center of your attention.

There's no getting away from like if you stand in line for an hour for something, if you rush into a theater and save your seat and grab yourself your popcorn and you're going to see the world premiere of some movie or like one of the first times it's being shown, do you feel like you get more keyed into what you're watching that way? It's funny you wanted to discuss

this because I have been thinking about how weird it is. And I guess this is a common experience for many people who work in TV and film, but not me. I'm not at that level where you see something first. So you have very little context. Yeah, no context, like no preconceived notions of what it's going to be. Like, you just don't know any of that. So it definitely is like a just a different experience. It's kind of weird, actually. And also like since we work at the ringer, I feel like I always hear about stuff before I see it. Even Parasite, which I tried to not know anything about. I knew it was like a great movie and people loved it and I didn't know why. So I guess I feel more dialed in because I'm

sort of not sure what the touchstones are going to be. Sure. Everything could be important. Yeah. And I think that also, I mean, I know you went and saw the Taylor Swift documentary, Miss Marricana. Yeah. And I went and saw The Nighthouse, which is a new horror movie from David Brucker, who's been on The Watch before. And he had a movie on Netflix a couple years ago called The Ritual and his directed segments of VHS. And I think it's like a really phenomenal horror filmmaker. But there's nothing like seeing a horror movie at midnight with like 600, 800 people who are just like completely ready to get terrified and also like hit all the laugh lines and do all the jump scares. Like the jump scares in this movie were like, I think you could feel the entire floor bounce because people were all like, whoa. Oh my God.

You know what I mean? But at the Taylor thing where people singing along were people like. It's interesting. The crowd was heavily female. I don't know who Taylor shows audiences anymore. It's almost like she's so universal that. that I was, it was both women older than me, younger than me. And people cheered and, like, at various points, like, clap for her.

But it was definitely, like, a very pro-Taylor squad. So I think it was like, also it was 1100 people at a theater at Salt Lake Community College. And it was, like, just a lot of people who had traveled 40 minutes probably to get to that movie. And also just, like, people from Salt Lake, I think, who just wanted to see the movie. And it was just interesting how there are still a few things to, like, bring people out. film festivals being one of them and Taylor Swift being another obviously. But it is interesting where it's like just people really devoted to one of two things, either the subject matter or like being there first. Being there first and like having that experience like in the first wave. Yeah. Like the last night,

the movie that we saw was like it kind of what you're talking about with like your experience with Parasite. It was like where I looked at the first line of the synopsis of the movie and it stars Rebecca Hall. And I actually don't even want to give them anything away. One of the things about film festivals that's tough as you don't always know when stuff is getting released or whether it's going to get released or whether it's going to go to a streaming service. So I don't want to give anything away about it based on like it might be nine months, 15 months. There's stuff I saw at Texas in South by last year that's coming out now. Do you think that horror movies like need film festivals more than other kinds of movies because they need to like be able to test the reaction?

And it seems like the movies that really take off have like a building swell around them. Like horror movies at least. It's a funny question because like there's like a there's a basement. where like the floor for horror is actually pretty high in terms of like that's why there's so many of them I think that there are just fans who like the visceral experience of being scared so they will give a huge swath of horror movies a shot especially with like a bunch of the different streaming services that are offering a lot of horror right now and the fact that there are pretty routinely like maybe like nine to 15 horror movies a year getting into theaters and making a dent you know like there's still one of the more reliable box office performers so I think that

The thing that's interesting about the festival question you asked is that there is like a subsection of this festival of South by Southwest of a lot of movie festivals that's like the midnight stuff. And I think it's actually like kind of a like a complete like separate experience where it's like people who orient their entire nights around at midnight after going out and getting a few drinks and going to get dinner. We're going to go to this movie and be up at like 2.2.30 talking about it. It's this totally different thing from getting up at 7.30 and hitting like six docs before. lunch. I kind of wish I was that kind of person because it seems like a really unique movie-going experience, but it's just really hard to have. I mean, I'm obsessed with Netflix. Like, I love it. I feel like it's really additive in my life. But it's the complete opposite of what you're describing. It's like generally something you do at home with by yourself or with maybe like,

you know, like one or two other people. And it doesn't really have like the community like event of it. And I think that horror movies at a festival, I wish I was a part of it. Like I get too scared, but it just seems like an ideal way to be a part of movie culture in 2020 where you're able to eventize it and also be genuinely surprised. Yeah, I think also, I mean, action movies used to probably be this in the 80s. I think that horror is kind of taken on the, no matter how silly it seems or how boilerplate it seems at the end or how many tropes get repeated, there's something about getting scared in a dark movie theater that is like a pretty unique and special experience that is almost unreplicable in your home when you're like,

I'm going to hit pause and go get a water and, you know, take the clothes out of the dryer and then like look at my phone for a second. Like when you're trapped in a horror movie theater, like that's the thing is like nobody gets up during horror movies. You know what I mean? Like people can't afford to like miss that one or two things. And there were a couple of things last night where I was like, you know, it was this kind of cool theater that they have here at Sundance

called The Library, which literally is in the library. Oh, that's awesome. And it felt almost more like a sort of. school assembly than it did a traditional movie theater experience but that almost played into the kind of offness of the movie itself which is very isolating

and paranoid and strange so it was just like a very very cool experience and Rebecca Hall is really good in it I feel like her career is just not as good as it could be well I think that she has made just decided to like be in charge of it now I think that she's kind of like made decision she's an executive producer on this movie and I get the impression that like her lending her name to it and because

part of it, like helped get it made. I love Rebecca Hall. She's great. She's great in this movie. She's got, there's a couple of scenes in here where she does stuff that is like, oh, like this is probably like upper one or two percentile, or 99th percentile of acting. For horror movies or in general? No, just in general.

Like there's a moment where she has to see something for the first time that I'm not going to get into that you're just like, oh my God, that's actually like probably the first time I've ever seen somebody react to that in this way. Would she have a better career if Emily Blunt didn't exist? Oh, like, you think Emily Blunt is like the Rebecca Hall, market correction? Yeah. I just feel like... I don't know, you want Rebecca Hall to be Mary Poppins?

Is that like your dream for her? I don't know if I wanted Emily Blunt to be Mary Poppins. That wasn't my dream for her. But this is what we're saying, right? I'm just thinking like a quiet place and like sort of other movies where you need like a really likable, really talented British woman. quasi-British woman. Yeah.

I feel like Rebecca Hall and Emily Blunt. No, no. No. I think I love both of them. But there is a weird thing that is like, especially since there's so much work for, four British actors in America where they're like, we don't even blink when, like, it's a cop show set in Detroit and nine of the people are either British or Australian. Yeah.

Rebecca Hall is quasi-British. Like, she's probably played more Americans than she's played British at this point. Also, when I think about the prestige, I feel like Scarlett Johansson's fake British accent was way more aggressive than Rebecca's Hall's real British accent. Right. And I feel like she's generally like an understated actor. It's just probably part of the reason why. I'm like, why isn't her career better?

She has actually having a great career. It's just not that showy. Yeah. I mean, she's in like, she's in many iconic movies, including The Prestige and Iron Man 3 and whatnot, I guess. I want to circle back to something you were saying about the sort of being here in the sort of first floor of a hype cycle for a movie because there's two, there's basically two different experiences.

There's one where you see something that is already a hot property. So like Zola was like that, I think. I think the Hillary Doc series is like that. I think obviously that Taylor Doc is like that. There's a bunch of other stuff here that I think is going to be like, on ramped right into like mainstream culture pretty fast. And then there's stuff where it's just like, I wonder if this will find a home. I know.

And I wonder or I wonder if this will catch on at all. And that's one of the more remarkable things about festival experiences is that you're just like, wow, I really hope somebody sees this. Right. And like in the economy of streaming, does it just make sense for like Hulu or whomever to just like take a flyer on a movie that was like good and maybe does, it's not like one of the top five movies coming out of Sundance? But like, is there more of a life for a lot of these movies now?

as a result of there's being more places for them to go. Well, here's my big curiosity, because if you're on a bus here, or if you're in a bar, if you're walking down the street, you're just hearing people talking about acquisitions and where it might wind up, whether it's on one of these streaming services or in a limited release that then goes digital to iTunes and stuff like that. And there's just a lot of discussions about distribution

and platform and stuff like that. The one thing that I'm starting to feel a little bit as we kind of go full maximalist with all these services, and I think that, like, you and I talk about this sometimes with Netflix, I think you and I are very good friends who talk to each other all the time and are fully capable of once a week of mentioning something on Netflix that neither has ever heard of. Right. I also just want to note this morning, I was reflecting on how you're such a gracious friend as I think that I use you to talk through how I'm feeling all the time and to be like, I'm turning the page on this feeling and I'm starting a new one. Chris just want you to know. Yes. It's like I'm your, I am the record of your emotional state. Yeah. Thanks so much. And that also includes having to hear me like discover cheer or discover the sort of.

or I like just all I want to do is talk about how I feel about the Aaron Hernandez documentary or like and all that stuff. Also, I'm like a big weirdo who just like goes on. Watches Netflix. Yeah. But I think that we're kind of reaching a point where you ask if, you know, whether it's good for like a Hulu or somebody to go out and buy 10 movies here and just be like, here they are. No. I think it might even be better for somebody or something to buy 10 movies and be like we're presenting like basically the Sundance Film Festival for everybody. Right. Here are. 10 movies that we bought, you know, you almost get to feel like you're virtually experiencing the festival. Maybe they build in some of the kind of Q&As and stuff like that that you experience when you were watching a movie here because often like the stars and the directors are there. They're presenting their work. They're actually quite like, it's quite lovely because they're like really nervous. They're like, oh my God, like this is the first time. Like Bruckner last night was like, I just finished this. This is really weird. Like it was like this has been sitting on a shelf for a while. But I think that there must be a way for us to

start editorializing this stuff a little bit better. Not necessarily curating and hiding and, and, you know, merchandising stuff that way, but, like, it's just as a shame when you find out, like, oh, this movie's been, like, somewhere buried in Amazon Prime or somewhere buried in Netflix for, like, a year. And I thought, I didn't even know if it got a release. I don't know if this happens with Sundance movies as much, but festival movies, particularly, like, I think rom-coms that are smaller and just don't get the same big budget. Like, there's the, um, that Jack Quaid one on Hulu about the wedding date. Plus one. Plus one. Yes, but you disliked. I did not like, correct.

And it's just not my tempo. As they sat in a famous Sundance movie one time. But I think those movies, like, they do get lost in a streaming service. But that's kind of what you're saying is really smart. And kind of, like, music festivals have started doing that where obviously Coachella is fully on YouTube. People waited for Beyonce set a few years ago. And then it was like, that could be enjoyed by the mass audience that loves Beyonce, you didn't only have to be there. Obviously, it's really different when you actually are there.

But it is a cool idea to talk about opening it up. And also, like, why couldn't it be in real time? Well, it's tough. It's like the, I think that obviously you buy a movie here. This is my like complete, like, outsider perspective. But it seems like what happens is people buy a documentary or a feature here. And then they turn around and they say, okay, so how are we going to sell this to the public? Like, what's the best arc for this thing?

Do we want to put it in theaters? Do we want to put it in just a few theaters and then do digital, like, in a week or whatever? And I get all that. But there's something about like when something comes out of a festival and like you've got a couple thousand people talking about it, that might be like the loudest it's going to get for that movie. Right. And maybe the best thing to be, maybe the best thing possible for some of these smaller movies like a plus one that's not going to go play at an arc late or like a Glendale movie theater. It's just to get it out there while everybody's talking about it. Right.

Because there is a disconnect right now. If you look on any of like your favorite movie sites right now or any of your favorite movie people's Twitter feeds right now, they're just like banging out like. reviews right now. Right. Because they're doing it because they're like, that's the job. It's like, I write about this movie when I see it, not when it's going to be available. And then we'll recirculate my review or I'll write it again. We do it at the ringer too.

Like when we send people at festivals. Yeah. We have them write like Toronto Film Festival recaps. Naman does that. Even though those movies like are not coming until Christmas sometimes. But in some ways, I think that that moment is actually the best moment for people to see it. Right. Because there's the most amount of excitement.

There's the most amount of interest. And also, I think more recently, bigger movies premiere at some of the festivals where kind of unexpected hits used to emerge. But, like, when I think of like the Venice Film Festival, which is not a small one, but like in general, I think it is, it does track more artsy than just mass movies. Right. Like in 2018, a star is born, like, totally dominated that. And like, I can't name another movie out of that. That was, like, really big of that festival. Yes. Yes. And I, and it would be cool to, like, find more ways to, like, that had, like, the two-step process of, like, the trailer came out and instantly. became like a kind of social media phenomenon and then it actually screened and people are like

oh my god, this is actually really good. Yeah. Yeah, it's an interesting situation. You know, I think that there was, I know Sean and Amanda talked about this on the big picture that came out on Friday, but the idea of like, like, festival feelings, like basically like your festival high that you have. Right. The thing that really, that one time that ever happened to me was when Sean and I went and saw Longshot at South By and it was like the kind of

centerpiece movie. I think it was like the big premiere movie at South by Southwest. And we saw that movie and I was like, that movie is going to make $150 million. Like this is going to be the biggest comedy of the summer. And it's like a sweet rom-com, but it's also got like so many jokes. And it's actually got like a weirdly like compelling action plot. And it obviously swan dived, man. Yeah, it did not do well.

Now, I don't know whether or not that movie would have been better if it came out on Netflix three weeks later like this Taylor Swift documentary is going to. It is smart that they're doing it that. way. Also, like, just as, like, someone talking about this stuff, it makes more sense for us to talk about it right now, because it's like, this is a preview for you. And then, you know, even if you're not going to listen right now, come back in a week. Like, I mean, and I've discussed this or whatever. I think another movie that was like that was Book Smart that also, like, had a- Yes. But that had a longer life. And now it's, and I read it on Olivia Wilde interview today

where she was like, it just seems like Book Smart has now, like, left the farm. Like, people now love that movie. Like, Greenwald texted me the other day. I was like, I think Booksmart's best movie I've seen last year. I mean, he saw four movies, but it's like, he texted me. It was just like, I love Booksmart so much. Like, Andy was completely outside of the hype cycle for Booksmart. That whole, like, go see Booksmart and theaters support it. Like, it's now, like, become the movie that I think they were always hoping it would be,

which would be like a dazed and confused at fast times and, like, a high school movie that people of all ages are really enjoying on their own terms. There's definitely a difference between festival movies that people love at festivals and then are best suited to be watched at home. which I think is like kind of a days that confused and a book smart. Great movies. But like I didn't really need to see book smart in the theater. What do you think you do need to see in the theater?

Well, I think the horror experience is a really cool one. When there's like a communal aspect to it, I think it makes a big difference. I also think movies that are really emotional that makes a big difference too. To be like in the dark for, yeah. Yeah, where you're sort of, I think the communal but anonymous experience of experiencing a movie that is really heightened, whether it's really scary or really sad or really funny, like the kind of grander environment for the grander feelings is really tracks. Yeah, the more sweeping, the more people you want to be around.

But I just think classics in general, I've never been like, I need to go to the new Beverly to see one of my favorite movies that I've seen 15 times. But that's also just personal taste. So to bring it all the way back to the experience of watching sports. And like the kind of like somewhat like sports is essentially there. I think you can watch it like analyze every single play in every single frame. or you can have it on as like the thrum in the background that you check in on when you feel like you are experiencing like an action point. Like for you when you're watching, like would you watch something really emotional at your house?

Like do you think that, but do you think that that is eventually where we're going to go is what I guess I'm going to ask? I hope not because like my most emotional movie experiences of like the last five years that I can think of off top of my head. Lady Bird and Manchester by the sea, two movies that I fucking love and wept at. seen one time. I feel like I remember every line. Don't want to watch them again. You don't want to dial out Manchester by the sea again? It's like,

I want to go back to the house we're saying? I'd just like let it rock. I listen to the music all the time. Do you really? It's a beautiful score. God, you have such weird day. Why do you listen to so many movie scores? I love movie scores.

I've also been listening to the marriage story score a lot. I know you have. A lot. I don't know. I find the music is enough to like transport me back to the emotional state of having seen the movie without having to relive the trauma of Manchester by the sea or later. But I think sports, by the way, is a little different.

Because it's live action, and I love theater, so it's similar. Feeding off the singular experience, like, this is happening right now and it cannot be replicated is so special. Unless it's like a bunch of people who are watching illegal streams and they're like five minutes behind and they're like, wait, why did I like Twitter? It's just not the same. Like, I went to a really good Clipper Celtics game in like November or December. And it was kind of boring and then I got really good in the second half.

And it felt like me in a playoff game. And it was like so thrilling. And, like, similarly... It was the ladybird of basketball games, is what you're saying. It was the ladybird of basketball games. And then, like, when you go to see, like, a musical or a play or some kind of, like, live show, like, it was amazing. Like, I went to a mentalist show recently. I saw Darren Brown on Broadway.

In New York, he's back in England. Go check it out if you're in London. All our UK listeners. I love that. I had a great time. It was an amazing, like, in-person experience. But... You wouldn't want to watch the Netflix special of it.

No. And I definitely... I was going to say he's all... There's a lot of his stuff on YouTube. I've no in charge. Hard Pass. So there's just some stuff that I think is enhanced by the experience. And I think being at Sundance is there's a real experience to it. Like it feels like a movie, you know, it's a movie festival. Everybody's walking somewhere to go see something. And that is, it's almost like

being in a city, I mean, it is like being in a city where the only thing that matters is going to the movies. And that's like great for people, for industry people and for complete movie nerds and where the two meet. But I do think there's a lot to be said for the filmmakers and to immediately have their films available. Should I pivot to like ostentatious TV guy where I just like, yeah, I was going to go see Taylor Swift doc, but I'm just going to go home and watch Narcos. Got to support TV. It does, you know, makes me wonder. Could there be a TV festival? I couldn't help but wonder. I couldn't help but wonder. Could there be a TV festival? All right, Carrie Bradshaw. We'll see. We'll see.

Juliet, thanks for joining me. Always. The watch was brought to you by AT&T reminding you that when it comes to wireless networks, just okay is not okay.