The Watch - Our Favorite Shows of 2023 So Far, Plus the Max Report Card and the Upcoming Summer TV Slate

Episode Date: June 8, 2023

Chris and Andy talk about the newly debuted Max streaming app and whether or not it dilutes the HBO brand (1:00). Then they talk about a few upcoming shows they’re looking forward to, like ‘Black Mirror’ and ‘Secret Invasion’ (33:01), before talking about some of their favorite shows this year so far (52:03). Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You may find this hard to believe, but 60 songs that explain the 90s. America's favorite poorly named music podcast is back. With 30 more songs than 120 songs total. I'm your host, Rob Harvilla, here to bring you more shrewd musical analysis, poignant nostalgic reveries, crude personal anecdotes, and rad special guests, all with even less restraint than usual. Join us once more on 60 Saws that Explain the 90s every Wednesday on Spotify. Did you know about one and three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop

psoriotic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you? Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away. Trimfaya, guselcomab, taken by injection, is a prescription medicine for adults with moderate to severe plaques psoriasis, who may benefit from taking injections or pills or phototherapy, and for adults with active psoriotic arthritis. Serious allergic reactions and increased risk of infections and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or if you need a vaccine. Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimfaya.

Tap this ad to learn more about Trimfaya, including important safety information. This episode is brought to you by Brooks. Running connects us to a rush of energy that flows through our world. The cheers of friends that unlock a new gear within us, the intersection of interest that inspires a run crew, the support that gets you over the finish line. Connection is why we move forward and what inspires us to keep going. Let's run there.

Learn more at brooksrunning.com. I need supports to have to clear the run. Stand up and walk. Now. Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at Theringer.com. And joining me in the studio by special counsel.

It's Andy Greenwald. Not since the halcyon days of Clark Griswold. As a man-his-40s returned from such a momentous European vacation. Look, kids, Big Ben Parliament. I'm back. What's up, man? I got to tell people, Chris is back with a new attitude. It's a little more cosmopolitan.

I think so. He's dressed well. He's got great set of slacks on. I got socialized medicine. How is that? It's great. I got everything fixed over there. It's kind of amazing because I think people have been listening as you've, you know,

traversing the globe, have understood that your circadian rhythms have been a little off. Yeah, I know. But whatever you did to get in game shape for this morning is working. Grown men were coming up to me with tears in their eyes saying, sir, do you wish to revise your takes on the idol now that you've had some sleep. Okay. And do you want to go on the record? I stand by everything I said. It's fucking great. It was a perfect phone call. It was great. And also, I want to say that, first of all, it's just, it's wonderful to disagree with you. I think people love it. They love friction. Yeah. I do worry that as many people who listen know,

you have a very powerful movement behind you, much like the man you're quoting, the, uh, the head's movement. Uh-huh. And I want to be clear, I want to, much like our president, Joe Biden, I want to distinguish the CR heads from the larger watch listenership. You know, I'm not saying everyone is the same here. Uh-huh. But from my brief research, the CR heads are- You should not do this.

I don't want you to disassociate too much. I just want to say they're up in arms about my mistreatment of you and your very, very beautiful opinions that you expressed about the weekend. I remember what I said about the weekend. I don't really remember. Your reaction was annoying to me, but I think because I was so underrested, I don't remember what, like, you did.

So you were just like, this guy can't act his way out of a coffin, right? Yeah. And then I was like, no, he's compelling. And then we got into a disagreement because you were like, you're carrying water for big weekend, right? Well, I did suggest that you were under the thumb

of the Toronto Mafia in some way. Then Maasai, Hujiri, and others had... Others. I don't know. is up there. Pascal Seaccombe. Pascal Seacom. Not Drake, but 40, his producer, you know, was involved. And they were paying you. And then to take, you know, from your, your people have your back. Uh-huh. Your people? Your supporters. And they were like, um, they, according to them, I was like,

Chris, your ideas are bad and your opinions are invalid. No, that's not true. I know that you respect me. I, I broadly respected you up until the moment you decided to build your house on able, Island. Do you think that us fighting about the idol every Monday, like really fighting about it would be good content? Yes. Yeah, probably. Are you ready for that? Are you ready for five to six weeks of that? I think it's going to be problematic for me just

in case, like, this show really goes off the rails, but I'm holding on to the last car as we go off the cliff. Buckley Barn's style, you know what I mean? Things worked out for him. It took a while. It did. Okay, but in the end, he's the White Wolf. Here's what I want to do today.

Okay. You are driving this car. On the wrong side of the road, but you're driving the car. Here's what I want to do today. I want to talk a little bit about the HBO Max to Max Switchover, just because I've been using the service for a couple of days. Everybody loves Chris's user experience reports. Yes. A little bit of a wire cutter, if you know what I'm saying.

And we were going to talk a little bit about TV that's coming up because we've got like a nice run of shows in the next six weeks, eight weeks. It's, we still have not feeling any effects from the last. labor shortage. No. The writer's strike, the labor shortage, the labor

strife. Sometimes you feel labor shortage at like L.A.'s best small plates restaurants. Yeah, you can tell that waiter is really

like under the gun. They're slammed. They're slammed. Be patient. But I thought this would also be a good opportunity since we're in June to look back.

And maybe do a little bit of a survey. Now, you got nervous when I was like, let's do best TV of the year so far. In my defense, I get nervous

whenever you suggest a plan. Yeah, but I thought we just make this more of like a survey. Okay. You know, like kind of where are we? What have we seen? What have we experienced?

What have we done? Just for a little bit of admin on Monday, we're going to do the Top Chef finale, hopefully with a guest. That would be great. And we're also going to talk about the Spider-Verse movie, Chris. Yeah, I mean, it's hard for me to think about liking television. Yeah.

In the afterglow of seeing across the Spider-Verse, which I did with my daughters. yesterday. And best thing I've seen since Hamilton on Broadway, maybe. You went dark for a few hours on me. I was on the flight back. And I just didn't hear. I was like, oh, he usually likes to chat me up on him. We like to chat each other up when we're flying. Yes. We're a nice anchor for each other. And then, you know, I got nothing. And then you, then you hit me with like, I've, I've, I went in one man and I came out another. It is so good. It is so purely, it's great. It's more than good. It is so great. It made me feel alive to the possibility of art in mainstream contemporary

America again. Good. I am fucking rocked by how good this movie was. Do I need to have seen the first one to understand what's going to happen? Why would you deny yourself the pleasure of the first one? Well, because then I have to watch like four and a half hours of Spider-Man. Lucky, Chris. Lucky, lucky you. Yeah, you should watch the first one because it is also incredible. But also one of the reasons why this is so good is that, look, we're like past year 20 of our entire culture being driven by superhero stories, the same beats, and we're in year five or six of multiversal stories, but we're also in an entire generational, we're still having this generational upheaval of like all trilogy, all movies have to be trilogies and they have to follow the original

Star Wars template where the second one can get dark, but it's, this is the first movie that makes a case for any of that shit. And I feel so, and you said, don't step up, don't burn your takes, I won't. I just felt really deeply after walking out of that theater that like all this bullshit, some of which we've liked,

some of which we haven't liked, and some of which was Eternals, none of it matters. These are the movies that got it right, and these are the ones that will be held up. You know what? That would be actually a good pot for us. These are the movies that got it right.

Or these are like the sort of like the Hall of Fame of the 08 to 23 superhero run. What are the ones that actually you think are timeless or what you're going to take with you? I would even go further. I don't want to give free content to our pals, Sean and Amanda. But like, like, really, what is the canon? What is the 21st century mainstream pop culture canon from cinema?

Like, what movies are we predicting? I feel like that's what the big picture has been doing as their project. Yeah, I mean, that is, of course, that is their curatorial project. But I think they go week to week. And I'm like looking back, like, which franchises, which of these individual things actually do we think is going to last beyond the kind of transactional short-term. Yeah, so like when you got the Vision Pro strapped to your face. It's 2042.

There are wildfires in Philadelphia. Yeah. What do you, what do you, you've thrown on Logan? It's roots picnic. State prop is reuniting once again. Yeah. Does Tim Cook listen to our podcast, do you think? No.

Okay. You could have been like, we don't know. We can't say. You know what I mean? Like, I'm a big proponent of this idea that Helen Mirren listens to the Rwatchables. Did I ever tell you that? No. Yeah, that's my take.

Do you think that's... I think because Bill and I did Proof Life once and that Taylor Hackford directed Proof of Life, Tony Guillory wrote it. And Helen Mirren is... Taylor Hackford is Mr. Helen Mirren. Yes. And Tony Gilroy wrote Bill and note

that was like, you know, Taylor Hackford told me I had to listen to this. And I was just like, the chances are... Yeah. There is a chance that they were... Helen Mirren and Taylor Hackford were driving around listening to this. And she was like, these guys are great.

They got them the RAV-4. Yeah. Just to like, go up to the weekend house. And they were like, she's like, who's this? Who's this, chap? By the way, remember the last time that happened when we were like just really glowing up on ourselves over like the potential of like sound leakage going into someone's ears is when I feel like Jay Smith Cameron said that she was listening to us talk about succession?

And we were like, Kenny Lonergan. Oh, yeah. Kenny Lonergan, big watch guy. Yeah. And I think we've influenced his work in a lot of ways. When Tony wrote the note to Bill, did he then write you a second note being like, just FYI, I wrote a note to Bill? No. Me either.

Me either. This week, rather than see the Spider-Verse across, is it into the Spider-Verse? So the first movie is Spider-Man into the Spider-Verse. Yeah, and now we're going across it. But then, beyond. What do you mean? Like, that's the third one? Okay, great.

I can't wait. When's that due? 20-24. Okay. That's soon. Is it? 2024 is soon. There's some aspects of 2024.

I want to come quickly like the Spider-Verse movie. And there are others. Like November? Like the end of the American experiment that I'm not looking forward to. Lots of stuff could happen between now and that. That's all I'm saying. Oh, the Tim Cook thing was just you were referring to their debut of a thing that straps your face and leeches all humanity from you for $4,000.

Yeah. Tim Cook, W-Y-D. What are you doing? What are we doing? You know, I try to have an open mind about these things Because I guess The only thing that I probably was ever like unimpeachably This is just a fucking great idea

And salute to you was the iPod Yeah, those are great idea Well, I mean, computers are good too But like the iPod was the invention Was the invention that I was like Yo, I can have all these songs here with this dial Yeah, and you can play like archanoid or worm sometimes on that first. I never played games.

But, so that's been chill. Wow, what a dismissal. No, on the iPod? No, the first one, I was just, I was just being cute. You know, I was a console guy. You know, I was an Xbox dude, you know? You were still hearing that baby crying in Max Payne 24-7 in those years. Okay.

She haunts me. Go on. I don't know. I don't know if she or he. Anyway, what was I saying? I have an open mind. And I also am a guy who, as I get older, you know, like, I think sometimes. I want my experience to just be like a little bit more sensory deprivation.

Like you want to go in a tank? Well, I just kind of was like, I was thinking about the other day because I was watching something on my big screen and then I put my AirPods in to have that be like the speakers. So I, you know, Bluetooth linked my AirPods to my TV. Whoa. And it was a very rich experience and I loved it. You know, and I just, you kind of like lose yourself in the, I was, honestly, I was watching a hundred foot wave.

Okay. And I was like, this is about a. happy as I can possibly be. Was the one thing missing fake eyes looking out on the room? So Phoebe came in and she was like, can I get you anything? You could just turn to her? First of all, the idea of Phoebe being like, can I get you anything? That was an inaccurate read.

I love you, Phoebe. She doesn't listen to a lot. That was the best part. This is the safe space. No, sometimes she'll be like someone told me that you were talking about me, but I get that. I think she knows I adore her. I think.

But she's never like, do you want someone? water or anything like that. No. I just don't understand why everyone is just like being a gleeful pallbearer for humanity. Like why is everyone so excited? I saw this picture last week of like the bright boys at OpenAI just like coming up with the next fucking crackerjack idea. And I wanted to like do a just lay that picture next to a still from Oppenheimer.

It was just like useful idiots at any time in American history being like, Neat. Is lunch free? That's my take. So you have no desire to strap that thing on and watch, say, Black Mirror on it? No. No. I mean, I don't want to, there are few things that I want to strap on, you know, like just broadly. Yeah. I don't know if I mentioned, I saw the Spider-Verse movie recently and saw it at a movie theater and like a big-ass screen one, like a real big one. And I definitely, during the Maria Menunos minutes, I was having like low-grade panic attack of just like how much was being screamed into my eyes and how close I was. Like the pre-movie commercials that they did? The commercials and there was the trailers and the trailers was just yelling. It was just robots yelling.

There was so much fucking beast wars. You sound like a thousand years old. But I was like, I think I have to move back because this is enough now. And then the movie started and that movie warrants like a rich experience. But I'm going to, my pivot, you're, you're turning more European, which is really reading the culture well, I think. That's what people want. And I'm just going to be like, fuck it, I'm old. That's what I'm going to do. We'll see. I think that will be another source of tension for us, this generational divide. Do you know what this actually, this pivot really works for, though? Our long-term pursuit of Helen Mirren, because she is both. To be like, she's European and old. Yeah, that's right. And she'll be like, this is charming. Yeah. So while I was in Europe, no big deal. By the way, take a minute. I couldn't watch HBO Max. So I wasn't there. One day it was there, the next day it was gone because it had turned into Max. And I had access to it for a second. So HBO Max existed in Europe. Yes. Well, the website did. I don't know if I could have. I was able to watch Barry in Sweden. And then the next day it went to Max and they were like, we are not yet available in your country. And thank you to everybody who reached.

out who was like, I can hook you up with a way to watch Succession or way to watch Barry and stuff like that via various. Via Ves Ferry. Usernames and passwords. And I was just like, you know what? I appreciate that. But like, I respect Casey too much to do that. You know, I don't think password sharing is moral.

You're also like, my opinions on these finale is not necessary on the public record. Like, that was your bulwark. Like, that's what you knew. I know. I'm like the Mark Meadows of Succession finale takes. Only Kaya has. taken my testimony. No one knows who you've been talking to about it.

That's right. It's sealed. But I got back and when I got back, obviously, you know, the service had changed. We don't do a lot of conversation about like the nuts and bolts and functionality of these things. Although I've weirdly increasingly getting interested in it. But also last time we did it, you were like, guys, clear out for a second. Let me just tell you how great prime video is. I still think it.

I still think it works pretty well. So Canadian Amazon. is underwriting you right now. So I got back and was hanging out with my mom on the East Coast for a couple of days, and I was able to dip into Max because we just decided to honor the greatest generation by firing a band of brothers. Wow. So I watched a few of those, man, that is still like a pretty perfect piece of television.

Did you watch that when it came out? I watched some of it when it came out, and then I filled in some gaps. It is not as fresh. It's still also one of the wildest experiences just to watch Band of Brothers and be like, that's Andrew Scott. Yeah. They were all there.

Yeah. But I was really strange to see Band of Brothers and Barry and somebody somewhere against beat Bobby Flay and Dr. Pimple Popper and this kind of new thing on Max where it's the Discovery and Food Network and HGTV content.

This is my experience, the first night when I like fired it up to watch the succession finale. and it said for you, and it said Succession, final episode, then it said Penguin Dynasty. Cool. It's going to go great. This is fine.

You know, and I think that in some ways I was kind of like, this is actually nice. Like, I'm not above firing up beat Bobby Flay when I'm just like, I got 20 minutes to kill. By the way, every time you say it, I think you're saying bebop. Bebop. Bobby Flay. But go on.

So like a kind of like a Wayne Shore. soundtrack? It's kind of free form. It's improvisational. Are you a Bobby Flay guy? I spent, as you know, I was a real Food Network head for like 15 years and then stopped. I just completely stopped watching that network when I stopped watching linear TV. So I don't know, has chopped iterated? Like, I don't even know. I don't know because I think also anytime you're watching Food Network, you might be watching an episode from 2011. That's true. So I am well versed in the Bobby Flee Canaan, but I have not been keeping up. So the tabs at the top of Max that you can see, it's basically like home,

and then it's like series movies, HBO are the tabs at the top. And then somewhere in the middle there, there are this band of like the channels that they have, HGTV, Discovery, Magnolia, shout out, shout at my guy Chip. Yep. We still got to get to the bottom that Lionelow Marjor's story. It's a long-term project for us. HBO the max the HBO max titles

I don't super think they're no longer distinguishing those I don't think although I guess the other two is back soon and that's a Mac

I'm not really sure but I just wanted to ask you if you had that experience where you know you don't have like a sentimental

attachment to a screen on your Apple TV or your laptop or whatever but it is strange the first thing that jumped out of you

was like this looks like Netflix. Not necessarily visually, but in terms of the spectrum of content being thrown at you, which for the entirety of my experience with HBO, that was the counter to that. HBO is all about curation, and HBO is all about, like,

the best sports documentary, the best true crime documentary, the five best prestige TV shows, and the funniest stand-up and the funniest this and that. And like this kind of like very, very manicured lawn. Yes. And now it's kind of like wild gardening, buddy. I think there's a couple takeaways.

My first one, you're talking about what our responses were when we turned it on. Why did they get rid of the purple? Like what focus group suggested that? Why make it the same color as six of the other TV streaming apps? Right. That is, it seems minor, but that's bizarre to me. And maybe that is intentional. Maybe it's like, oh, we are a superstore like everything else and we just, you know,

we just have a lot of stuff. I think to your point about like being able to find or curate the HBO thing, I think it signals a couple aspects of the decision making, some of which won't be fully realized, I think, for another year or so. One is, I continue to believe that the de-emphasis of HBO within this larger project is intentional and an attempt to save HBO as a distinct brand identity. I know that seems counterintuitive, and when I've talked to some people about it, they're like, oh, what a sad thing, that HBO isn't even the name of the service anymore. I continue to think, although this might be only playing to some industry heads or people like us who think about this, I think that the larger goal is to be prepared, A, for what's coming, which is there's going to be significant, I think, downsizing in terms of how many services there are.

Consolidation. Consolidation is the word. Yes. I also think there's going to be consolidation in terms of how we get this stuff. I feel like we are building back towards a bundle. We are going to be recreating cable in some form. And so taking HBO out of it so that Max is just, like I was saying, it's like a superstore. So that we get to a point where, like they just got to a New York City where I saw when I was there,

there was a, remember when every corner was a Dwayne Reed? And then every other corner was a Walgreens or whatever. Now it's, I saw Dwayne Reed by Walgreens. It's like bespoke, curated Dwayne Reed. For all the people who were like, I'd like to go in here. Is the deodorant, not behind a plastic locker in that? I'd like to go in here and get some like crest fresh strips and also sushi, but I'm worried. Is this underwritten by Walgreens a brand I trust a lot more?

Oh, few. Okay, here I go. I think that we're getting to that place where Max and what's on Max might get swallowed into Peacock or vice versa or Paramount. Something like that is going to happen. And I think that they are trying to protect that HBO is still this distinct brand identity. Yeah, and I think you can, if you click on the HBO tab at the, top of the max interface, it looks not dissimilar to what it looked like six weeks ago. I do think that it is a strange moment to take the snapshot for the experience because we are carrying

our memories, both, you know, in terms of like good experiences with culture, but also our brand affiliation memories over from cable when you would go to HBO or then even like HBO Go or HBO Now or whatever it was called when there was just HBO on demand, basically. right? But also, like when Casey was here with us and we keep referencing this, it was very striking how he was still talking as if his job was to program the crown jewel of cable television one to two nights a week and that everything else was max. So I think that that is still what we think of when we think of the brand. It's weird that there's no place to just experience that right now. And my guess is where it is right now was not where it will be in a year or two.

I think the other thing to remember is it's not just that stuff's being pulled off of these streamers. Some stuff, some shows are being pulled off of streamers to be sold again. Five or six years ago, when everyone was bullish on making their own streaming networks, they all pulled their content. Like you used to be able to watch the early seasons

of the Wire on Amazon Prime. You used to be able to watch Marvel movies on Netflix. Everybody pulled their, pulled everyone back, pulled everyone back into their own silos. That's not financially prudent. So some HBO shows, I would imagine, not just Westworld on the fast network, but some HBO things

are going to be sold again and licensed. So I think they're probably trying to... Yeah, I'm just... To To be? Like, to what? Like, I mean, because if you're talking about an era of consolidation, which I think you're right about, I wonder, like, how many homes there will be for this stuff.

I mean, it is kind of... I mean, it is a miracle of... A really kind of sad miracle of today where it's like, everything is at your fingertips. Like, if you get home, you know, I watched... I saw John Wick in the theaters, couple weeks ago. And then I was on the flight and I was like, oh, I just want to watch Johnny, Donnie Yen. So I watched John Wick chapter four again. And then I was like home and I was,

I was sort of like, oh, I kind of want to watch two. I haven't watched two in a while. And two is only available for streaming on Tobe. Like you can, you can rent it. Yeah. But we are about, it's, and that's always shifting, right? Like the licenses are very, they're very temporary. Like, you know, Spiderverse to your point, like, I was like looking for that. That's only streaming on FX's like app on yeah it used to be at Netflix yeah so it's like it's just it's just you're always kind of catching up with that stuff and I've noticed also a couple of the things that I've purchased as um you know 99 on Amazon like that the licenses for that as like it's pretty rare but that can disappear too yeah and I think there's another way to look at this and we can go back to the max part

and and when we have our maybe if the writer's strike and potential actor strike has ever resolved we could do like, okay, so what's next kind of conversation? But I think one other aspect that is less discussed about things disappearing is that disappearing content is actually a intentional move towards profits that we're going to return to. Do you remember the Disney vault? The idea of holding something for a while and creating scarcity to create demand. Yes. When we were not kids, when we were teenagers and like the home video market was booming more. Disney made a, it was kind of a brilliant strategy. that I think they learned from drug dealers,

which is they would make a movie, would be in theaters, and then it would be on home video for a limited time. Yes. And then it would vanish. Right. And then they would wait five or six years, and then they would like Cinderella.

Clean it up, back in theaters for a few weeks, and then you can buy it for a limited time. And they were like 80 bucks. Yeah, they were like big, those big plastic cases. Yeah. I have a lot of copies of Cinderella, by the way, that I need to offload.

So if anybody wants to hit me on Chris's personal Reddit, I will. On various. So anyway, so I think that that strategy probably makes sense. Like, is it, what is it doing for Disney right now to have every major blockbuster they've made in the last 20 years just there? They don't, they, for people to watch multiple times. What it's doing is it's giving you value for your monthly investment in Disney Plus. Like, that's the thing.

That's what it's giving us. Yeah. But what's it giving them? And, you know, I am, I'm always on the side of the same. suits and I want them to do well. Right. So I want their bottom lines. I detect some sarcasm there.

Do you? A little bit. That's because you're more attuned to a European sensibility with like a cutting, cutting humor. Anyway, so are you pro-max or are you anti-max? What do you, or is it just doesn't matter anymore? I don't, I don't really know that it matters, you know?

Like, I mean, I was messing around and looking around yesterday. I kind of got lost doing a scan through my favorite No Reservations episodes. That's nice. So I watched, like, Mexico where he takes Carlos, his chef at Le Hale. He takes him back to Mexico. Yeah, and goes to Pueblo. And I watched the U.S. desert one where he hangs out with Queens of the Stone Age in Joshua Tree. And they go to, like, Papi and Harriots and stuff.

And I was like, oh, man, I'm just going to watch Bordane all night if I don't stop now. But I was just impressed because it was just like, to your point, like, if you like having food network on as a nightlight, like now it's like you don't have to have an Ozempic at every 30 seconds, you know, which is essentially my mother's experience of watching it on cable. Also, much like the Disney movies being available, you've already bought Ozenpeng. So you don't need more. Yeah, but it's French OZempeak. Oh, Zempeak.

That's good stuff. You know, I wonder, and this is, I'll find this. That just makes it so that you can smoke, though. French OZempeak is just smoking, right? Just smoking a lot. I wonder to, look, well, let's save most of this for our big conversation about. about user interface experiences. But I was thinking about like Apple's play in this.

And really as we, as the TV industry is counting on the consumer to just pay money to have these open, just to have like to pay for the window to open so they can have this trough of stuff and as many troughs as possible. How do even the things within the troughs like pop out unless you are already within that silo? And you get a kind of a glimpse from that. Like if you are like I am an Apple TV user and you go to the. you press the button that's just the TV icon, and then it says a lot of originals, Apple originals, but it also says continue watching

or new for you. And it pulls from the other services, you can watch it through Apple, right? And I don't know what kind of agreement there is between these services. There might not be fully be one yet, although I think there's probably some payment to be prominent.

Like Max was on the top of the app store the day it launched, for example. But I was thinking about how, you know, Google pays Apple to be the search bar. And that payment, is estimated to be $8 to $12 billion a year? It can't be a year. Why not?

Billions of dollars every year. Okay, yeah, it is. Sorry, I was like, that is insane. But I just look at the, look at the, what's this, the Wall Street. I don't know what that is, but apparently that's what they said it was. It's not me. But like, is Apple's long game here to have enough originals to make people press that button and to buy the box that comes to the free subscription so that these other companies,

that, by the way, are famously flushed with cash right now, will pay them. them enormous amounts of money so that. Yeah, and also what happens if they, I mean, just to tie it together with our earlier conversation is like, what happens if Vision Pro does become the iPod for television? And it changes the way people watch TV. And that's like, you know, two people lying in bed or sitting in a living room and they've each got a headset on watching different things.

Fucking kill me. And think about how harder it's going to be to be like, be like, this is the way people want to watch TV. you're going to have to get in through Apple to do that. You know, I just fundamentally think people do like watching things together. I just think that is, it strikes me as a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. It doesn't mean there aren't people who want to strap goggles onto their heads and leave Earth entirely. Although Mark Zuckerberg is losing a lot of money.

Did you see the Zuck thing where it's like they had to put out a statement, like his jiu-jitsu instructor had to put out a statement to say that he, fact, did not choke Mark Zuckerberg into consciousness. No, was this on the Twitter platform? No, I can't remember where I saw it. You know, I'm off Twitter. I've heard Tucker Carlson as a show, though, so I'm tempted. They're really trying to get me back.

No, I was just going to say, like, I think fundamentally, like, whether it's people having parties to watch the Vanderpump reunion or whatever on Bravo, or it's, like, a company like, this is not really in the purview of this podcast, but as people know, I'm a Nintendo guy now with my kids. And like, I thought one of the smartest ads I've seen was one of the last ads for the new Zelda game, which doesn't need ads. Like people wait six years for a Zelda game. And the ad didn't show the game. It was from the POV of the screen watching the way people played it.

And almost entirely it was people playing it together. It's like the horror movie where it's like... The jump scares. Yeah. It's either with like, there was there a dad and daughter playing? Yes, there was. So they take all my money. But also it was just like, Frank.

or people in public, you know, that Nintendo understands that that is part of its appeal, which is a zag from, I think, the other gaming companies who are like, you will have an optimal, you know, headset with a microphone so you can scream profanities as you fragged strangers all across the globe. I'm just saying, which, am I putting my thumb on the scale? Is to which side I like more? That's you.

That's, that's you. Do you play FIFA competitively with strangers? I do not. I'm not interested in that. I'm interested in building a culture of my franchise. Yeah. I do a lot of team talks. I do a lot of training.

I'm always scouring the transfer market. I'm not interested in talking to some fucking kid in Slovenia about like... Ted Lassau. How I'm cucked because I didn't, you know, make a cross. What? You're the Ted Lassow vibes in that every time you play FIFA, it's weirdly like way too long. This is a pretty interesting conversation though, man, because what happens if, you know, because you're talking about like Apple has this box that they're,

they sell that you use as an attachment to your television to streamline and Applefy in terms of its design the crazy television experience. Yes. But what if the box becomes television and you put it on your head? You know what I mean? You're so high right now. What if boxes television? Okay.

All right. That's going to fucking be weird. You know, like what if we're still doing a podcast? And we're like, last night I threw on my vision pro to watch morning shows season 12. I think you and the 12-year-old Slovenian, who you've met online, who's now your ward slash FIFA mate slash co-host, will be fine. I'm pivoting to yelling at clouds. Me and Dragan. And joining me on the other line.

I can't see his face except for my fake eyes staring at him. In the 32nd season of his Fiore and Tina career mode. It's my guy Dragan. It's really nice that you think I'll still be with you when you're strapping a box to your face. Is that what's going to make you go? That's what's going to make you go. Not the idol. The playoffs are here, and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul

predicts. Follow all the playoff dishes, swishes, wishes, wishes, and misses. Predict the spread, the total points, and even the game winner. Sign up for Fandual Predicts and predict it from the couch. Offered by Fandual Prediction Markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant, 18 plus. Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection

tools. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Ever have a plan come together out of nowhere and realize you're missing something? Like a last minute beach day, a spontaneous hike or an outdoor movie night you didn't plan for. That's when Prime's same day delivery as you're back.

Getting you exactly what you need fast and reliably so you can actually join the moment instead of watching from the sidelines. Same day delivery. It's on Prime. Visit Amazon.com slash prime to find millions of items delivered fast, available in select areas. Terms apply. This episode is brought to you by the Active Cash Credit Card from Wells Fargo. That's a mouthful, but that's because it packs a lot in.

Earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases with it, big or small. So whether it's buying tickets at the game or grabbing a coffee, it earns unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases. Say it with me, the Active Cash Credit Card from Wells Fargo, be a 2%er. learn more at Wells Fargo.com forward slash active cash terms apply. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business.

So visit spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. Let's talk a little bit about what we've got coming for the rest of the summer or the beginning part of the summer. Okay, you got a list. Yeah. We got to the end of succession in Barry, which I will chat about lately during our survey of what we saw this year. But I think it's like a really natural both because it's June and because these for us, totemic shows, came to a conclusion to kind of be like, okay, take a breath.

what's coming up. I'm personally really excited about a bunch of shows that are coming up. I had a funny experience, though, when I was watching Band of Brothers and I was like, I'm deeply personally satisfied right now.

And I was like, if I didn't do this pod, would I be as ferociously not like vigilant, I guess, about new shows? Because the corner of the realm now is like,

what's coming out of, on Friday. What's coming on on Sunday? Like, what's the new thing? What's next? What's new? Because they're giving us so much you can really, you can really only pay attention to TV that way, right? Like the kind of constant turning of the page. But like, if I was just a guy and I was like looking around last night and I was at stuff to watch, I was like, I kind of just want to watch all of Deutschland. Oh, you mean, like 83, 86 and 89. Like I just kind of want to go through and watch a series, yeah. I only saw 83. Yeah. And, I didn't watch 89.

But I was thinking of myself, like, that would be nice. Yes. I would enjoy that. If somebody was like, what are you watching on TV? It's like, oh, I'm actually, every night I watch an episode of Deutschland. This sounds, who sounds middle age now? This sounds dreamy. No, I'm talking about like normal television behavior.

Yes. Right. So it kind of impacts it sometimes where, you and I are always like, okay, what's next? What do we have to watch the first episode of? And then it'll either catch us and we're like, we're going to talk about this every week or every couple of weeks or we kind of do a check-in and we don't really go back to it.

How dare you? Name a single show that I've only watched one episode of and never return to you. I defy you. On Mike. That being said, here's some stuff that's coming up

in the next couple weeks. Wait, wait, wait. So you're just saying you would prefer a normie existence. Well, I'm about to list off one, two, three, four, five, six, seven shows that will probably be at least

eight to ten episodes each. Yeah. So that's about what, 55 to 60 hours of television I'm about to rattle off? You better rewatch John Wick quick. Look, I think, yes, you're speaking to a larger issue for this podcast that maybe, is this our, Kai, is this our last episode? No, we still have to start fighting.

Oh, good. Just that most stuff isn't good. Most stuff isn't that good. And things that are good tend to be things that last. And so, yeah, it would be nice to have, like, what would be our, are like slowcore companion podcast where we just check in with things that are good that came out

in the past? I think it was when we did the bureau pod. In Chernobyl. Yeah. So we do it concurrently. But I totally agree with you. And first of all, everybody, keep listening. Keep listening. No, we're going to talk about all these shows in the pretty weeks. But I do mean that

like... He's on LinkedIn right now. Google search. Jobs with people who like television. Better in television podcast producer. I think that in terms of people's viewing hours, like, yes, it's probably safe to say that there's a good chance you would be better served going back and watching Deutschland 83, 86, and 89 at your own pace.

That might be a better bet than taking a flyer on the nine things we're about to name. Well, when you see me on the streets with my vision pro on, I'm watching German. I'm watching Deutschland 86. Speak to you in fluent German. Here's what we got coming up in the next couple weeks. June 15th, Black Mirror. Not a moment too soon.

Yeah, so talk to me about this new season because I've only seen advertisements for each episode. Like they've made posters for the episodes as if they are movies or as if they are distinct. I think you're seeing the increasing in globalization of Black Mirror. So there's a fair amount of American performers, stories from across the globe.

I also think that this is a really interesting moment for this series, which I think is one of the most brilliant of the last 10 years, where we view the society through the lens of Black Mirror now. Yeah. And we are always aware that when there's ecological crises in places we didn't expect them, or we're wearing fucking boxes on our heads, or Dragan is hitting me up at 3 in the morning to go play an F-A cup match. FIFA.

He's just standing by the foot of your bed. Just staring. Please. Wake up. This time, Ruhniz. He, like,

what is Black Mirror in an era where most of Black Mirror's come true? You know? So I'm very excited to see it. They haven't set out-screeners. I haven't watched it yet. I haven't seen anything yet. It's interesting, by the way,

just to say, Black Mirror has been a part of our lives now for over 10 years. Still only 22 episodes. Which is a good thing, I think. This new season is only five. episodes. I guess my Netflix in its ability to be, I don't know if it still exists, but it did have an

ability, I think, to be a pretty good benefactor of certain creatives. The relationship with Charlie Berger seems like it's been really good for all sides because they have essentially bankrolled this project, right? Like to let him make it at his pace, he still writes or co-writes every episode. I kind of wish this is a non-netflix thing, but I would rather have Black Mirror throughout the year, you know, like drop them over a period of, of five months, one every once a month, over a literal season, not like a season of TV, but summer of Black Mirror as opposed to dropping all five on June 15th,

but that's what Netflix does. In addition to Black Mirror, Righteous Gemstones is almost here. Yes. We need this. With Steve Zon joining the cast. And is Shea Wiggum there too? Yeah. Yeah, come on.

Seems to play a NASCAR driver. Great. This is one of my favorite shows on TV, so I'm obviously pretty excited for it to come back. The Bear at the end of June. Oh, you're the bear guy? What do you mean? I'm the bear guy.

That's one of our favorite shows. I didn't say that. I said Gemstones is one of my favorite shows. Oh, yeah. I was looking for opportunities for conflicts. Do you remember on Gemstones when Jason Schwartzman played that guy named Thanniel? Daniel, who's the reporter? By the way, you're just naming people who are in Spider-Verse.

Shea Wigam, Jason Schwartzman. Shea Wigam is in Spider-Verse? Yeah. Brian Tyree Henry, Mahershershalla. I'm not naming them. You're naming them. Now I'm naming them because I'm like, everybody we like, is in this movie, too. Do you consider voice acting to be like an appearance?

I look, I'm saving it for Monday. But these movies have some of the best voice acting performances I've ever seen. Our guy, Jaky J. I'm trying to think of what, what's your goat voice acting performance? My personal one? Yeah. Bill Irwin and interstellar. Yo, that's a really good shout.

I know. He's, it's really good. Man, that. I mean, you know, like, it's funny. I'm going James Earl. Okay, that's good. See, here's what's great about you. Right down the middle.

I immediately split into a binary of like the most pandering choice for like the real fanboys, which is Mark Hamill is the Joker and Batman the animated series. Or I was going to go super, no, I was just pandering, full pandering. Or I just got to be me and be like Suzanne Plachette and spirited away. Your boy's got a new movie coming out, right? my boy. You ever going to make good on this? Miyazaki has a new movie. He's apparently his last movie. What did you do for me that we were like, I got to do this for you?

I do a podcast twice a week with you. Yeah, but like, did you watch something on my behalf? And then it was like, okay, I'll watch Miyazaki for you. Ozark, I don't remember. You watched like three episodes of Ozark. Rogue heroes? You watched one episode of Rogue heroes. I don't remember it that way. I don't recollect that. I just wanted to say, do you aware of the Miyazaki? His last movie is coming out. No promo.

No promo. promo, no trailer, no press. Yeah. Just fucking dropping in theaters. Yeah. Can't wait. Bear comes out at the end of June. Our favorite show. Yeah. Together. It's going to be great. Secret Invasion. This has been

your thing. This has been your this is like, this is your the weekend in the MCU. In something that you just really have dialed in on and you love. I think of all the conflicts, both fictional and real that we faced in the course of our lives,

Like, as a human race, the Kree and the scroll are the one that really is the most interesting to me. Always. Always. No, no. I mean, of all... Both of those races of aliens can shape-shift, am I right? No. Okay. So that's your first mistake. Do you think, though, as an impartial observer in the larger conflict, you're wearing one of those blue UN hats as you go into the sector of space where the fighting, the hot zone? Do you just feel like... So the scrolls can turn into anything at any time.

Yeah. And the Cree are blue. Oh, okay. And they're tough fighters or whatever. Don't you think that gives the advantage? So the Cree always have to, like, hide. Right. Are you saying the Cree are shook?

I'm just asking, like, Ben Mendelsohn then is a... Say it? Croll. Scrawl. Scrawl, I believe, was in early 80s. That movie rocks. Did it? Yeah.

It's really good. The dude has, like, a little, like, a five-pointed star thing. Yeah, there was a video. There was an arcade cabinet. He was awesome. Okay. Yeah. So, Becree, fighting the scrolls, fans of Krull, the film.

Okay, so break down why Secret Invasion is interesting to you. Because for like a brief moment watching the trailer did actually look like an espionage thriller, which I know fool me 500 times. I should throw myself off the cliff, but it just did look like kind of a cool thriller. Also, it's Olivia Coleman. Yeah. And it's been a minute for Sam Jackson. Yeah.

Do you feel like he's been just thinking about different, like, different things? been a minute for Kobe Smolders. To paint. Where is she in the org chart at Shield now? I would imagine she's pretty high. But to your point, number one and two on the call sheet at Shield went away for five years. And when they came back, do you think their office was waiting for them? I think they had shifted to a more remote work.

I think, yes. And I also think that... WFH for Shield? I think Interim Shield director, Chris Lict, had actually taken his, put his desk in a whole different part of the... Good one. Thanks. Yeah. The Secret Invasion thing, it's not just that it's been a minute for Sam Jackson as America's favorite.

Oh, it's that guy, Nick Fury. There hasn't been a Marvel TV show this year. That's probably going to be reflected in you leaving three honorary slots blank in your top five. Do you think that they've been, they've just been in the woodshed just like making sure this one's totally dialed? I think woodshed. I think some executives have been taken to the woodshed. I feel like it's just a bad look all around because they put out way too much stuff. And then they were like, okay, let's pull back and put out nothing.

I'll tell you something. I did not feel the absence of Marvel this year. No, I did not. Because the question, did you finish Moon Night? Really isn't about watching Moon Night. For me, it's just more, it's a much larger question. Yeah. Like about what we're doing with our-

Like, you want to have a catch dad? That kind of thing. No, it's just like Ethan Hawks too busy to have a catch because he's walking around the volume pretending to be Egypt. Oscar Isaac, Spider-Verse. The other shows that are coming out, aside from that, the gold, which is a real CR and Andy Predator Handshake Mem show. Okay, yeah, talk about it.

Jack Loudon from Slow Horses stars. This was on BBC last year, but it's coming to Paramount Plus, and it is about a gold heist, I think, in the late 70s in England. Okay. Yep. Yep. Great. Justified City Primeval. Yeah, this is, I'm pretty interested in this.

the sort of, it's not a reboot or anything. It's just an extension of Justify, a series that ended several years ago and is one of my beloveds. And this is an adaptation of an Elmer Leonard novel that absolutely fucking rocks. It's basically, it is called High Noon in Detroit. And Boyd Holbrook, who, this is it.

This is the summer of Holbrook. I've been getting lots of calls from my financial advisor saying, are you sure you want to be this long on Boyd? And now we've got Dial of Destiny and Justified coming within weeks of one another. So we're going to find out. Are you bullish on Dial of Destiny?

Not quality. Like, is this movie going to... Oh, is it going to do well? I had this really weird experience coming home yesterday from LAX and I saw the ad, like the Billboard was outside of the Regal that's down on Olympic outside of LA Live. And I was like, that's really fucking weird to see the Indiana Jones font.

like in 2023. I was inside that building. Oh, seeing Spider-Verse? Yeah, I don't know if I mentioned I'd seen it. So we're Harrison Ford in Spider-Rubes. No, but I bet we could do two or three degrees. Wait, so you're saying it was weird seeing the font? Yeah, I was just like, are we sure?

We sure? Like, like, that's, that's, I'm open to it. James Mangold, awesome director. Phoebe, love it, Mads, love it, boy, love it. It's like all the pieces of there. They classed it up. It makes a lot of sense. I don't like seeing CGI indie.

Not de-aged indie. I just mean like Indiana Jones doing stunts that are like obviously digitized. I'm not a big fan of. Also, the poster, a million percent looks like a video game in the sense that like they can't even show. They're showing all the iconography, but they're not showing the 80-year-old man underneath the hat, really. And it kind of, remember when we would. Well, Bill does this, like, you know, the Tsar of Common Sense. And I feel like you've done this a couple times with your Jonas era,

take the glasses off, Hollywood Fixer. It's really kind of like an, are we sure guy? And so much money spent on this movie and so much money investing in really good talent and trying to make it the classiest. The Butterworth Brothers wrote this shit. But not just one. They paid for two.

But also trying to, I think the proof of concept is Top Gun Maverick, in the sense that, like, if you make a movie that's about nostalgia for a movie, you can bank forever. I definitely think that you are right there. So, but my question is, this does strike me as a prime, are we sure, candidate?

Because at the end of the day, I'm like, this is an iconic character 40 years ago. And I don't know if, I don't know if enough of the American movie going public is like, this is what I go to the movies for now. Or, you know, I'm not sure if the rest home

will let me out in time to see it. I also does seem like you're pretty naive if you think that for instance, for like Ashoka's coming out too. That was the last one after Justified. And I would venture a guest to say that the people who are excited about that show

coming on are probably huge fans of the animated series. And if anything, probably like the prequels more than the original trilogy. You know, like that generationally, like that's where we're at. And I don't know that indie has ever kind of like

rebirthed or had a new generation of fans. Like I think it's just guys like us who were like he's going to run away from that boulder. Yeah, and it is a very, I think that's a really good point. I think that the, I mean, Top Gun Maverick is such a maybe

unique achievement because it just took every box and made sense in so many different ways. Also, Tom Cruise, and this is weirder than CGI, is still Tom Cruise. And so there is multiple generations of people who are like, that guy just runs and does crazy stuff, and that's what we like to see in the movie theater.

I think that holding up Indiana Jones as a paragon of what we thought these movies should be, blockbuster should be, which broadly speaking was like not that frequent, hearkening back to a generation before ours because that's what the filmmakers were doing. Star Wars was based on Flash Gordon, right? And Indiana Jones was inspired by pulp novels and stuff.

And I don't know, yeah, I don't see the through line. I don't know. This part of the podcast where I just prognostigate about the box office of movies that haven't come out yet, maybe this isn't our strongest lane, but I find it interesting. Of the shows that I've mentioned, Black Mirror, Gemstones, The Bear, Secret Invasion, the Gold, justified in Ashoka. What are you most excited about? The Bear.

Yeah. Like, it's number one, the Bear, and then we could take a space bar, space bar, space bar, for a while. Not to say that I'm not excited about the other ones that you mentioned, and I will check them out. But the Bear is a TV show, man. Like the bear is the best or one of the top two best shows of last year. It was a total joy. It was a total surprise. And I'm so excited because everyone's excited.

It's really cool that it's back. I'm so glad we didn't have to wait like two years for this thing to come back. That's what's coming. Let's talk a little bit about what we've seen so far this year. You got a little jumpy when I was like, let's do a best of TV. I was. Because outside of the top two, Succession Barry, you don't seem, enamored with what you've seen this year.

I think it's okay to say that. I don't think anybody's going to be like fucking hating ass hater. I mean, I think there are huge gaps, which I feel responsible for. Like, I went on this mic and said,

drops of God is a show made for me. And you didn't watch it. I haven't watched it yet. I'm going to. I'm really excited about it, but I have not watched it. So my hope is that it would be on my list. You're waiting on Vision Pro.

So that you can feel... I wouldn't feel the drops on my face. On your eyeballs. I feel like, sir. On your face eggs. Sir, I have wine pouring out of my eyes. Yep.

Oh, face eggs. You watched Succession. I did. People are saying you didn't. People know that I did. I spoke to Jesse Armstrong knowingly about what happened in the finale. Yeah.

Did you? I love the finale. I don't know. I actually, it's one of those funny things. It's almost like a playoff game. It's like after the 24 hours, you want me to go back and be like, that part when Tom did that

that was fucking great. I mean, I think our everything clicked on that. It ultimately like I don't think I think if anything like I understand Shiv kind of more of thinking about it more and more which I know is like a cloudy

idea for some people of like why did she change her mind? It's like when you go back and watch those last 15 minutes again, it's pretty obvious where and why she changes her mind. So Succession and Barry. Yep. Barry I think I loved

the season itself I think I enjoyed and really thought was like a thoughtful creative execution of the finale sometimes with shows like Barry had to end like Barry had like I think Barry

had made that turn especially at the end of last season of him going to prison that there needed to be this kind of end game and it's really really fascinating to watch that and think about it as a projection of like haters artistic vision because he's also the star

right? So like he's putting himself as an actor. He's also the director of his own performance and the writer of his own character arc. I got to go back and listen to you and Sean. Did you love the finale? I did. But I also just, as I've said, like, I just loved this. I loved the show and I loved this season and what he tried to do and what he accomplished and just how bold it was. I just, I loved it. I mean, I will be more serious and rigorous about this at the end of the year. But like, when I was just scribbling out this year. I have Barry number one in Succession at like 1A or 2. Just because of

and this is not necessarily fair. It's just more that like succession. As a season of TV. As a season of TV because Succession this was, Succession has had basically three sterling seasons. I haven't gone back and run back the tape and been like well actually two is a little bit better than three or whatever but it's been very very very consistent. I'm giving Barry the nod, almost like, because here's the thing, like, Succession won two MVPs in a row, and do you really want to vote for the same person three times?

So Barry's Embed. Barry's Embed. Subjective, subjective favorite for me. So here's some other shows that I have that are in, I think, in the conversation. Okay. I don't know how many of these might, will make it to the end of the year, you know, as a top 10 fodder. But I've spoken about how much I love jury duty.

I know that wasn't really for you, but I have that pretty high in terms of like, felt very original, felt very fresh, really adored its sensibility. I thought it was just like kind of like a really just wonderful tonic of a TV show. Beef, people can go back and listen to my conversation

with Sonny and Jake, the guys who made that show, but even when beef felt overlong to me episodically, I never got bored and I always thought it was like really, really, really, really

trying to do something different. Yeah. And I really admire the two central performances at the center of it because they're not, they're not easy, you know? Like, they are like, Stephen Young and Allie Wong really put themselves out there in a way that I think a lot of performers now are like, what's like the thing where I come out in the end and like everybody thinks very highly of me? Oh, yeah.

I mean, that's how I live my life. But like, you know, do you know what I mean? Like, I do think that, like. People want to look good. Yeah. And they, like, those two characters are very, very complicated and very, very fucked up. And that was a really refreshing thing for me to see. I haven't watched it. It's not okay. If I want to have a serious opinion about the year, I have to watch it. That came out. It's not an NBA playoff analogy. But that came out when I was traveling and then I didn't catch up. Yeah, that's fine. Pokerface, we talked about a lot. It feels like a last year show somehow, but like it is this show.

Daisy Jones. Daisy Jones is on my list. Just pure old school TV pleasure, I just really enjoyed having that show in my life and watching it week to week. And I will continue to say that, like, its depiction of a moment of creativity was really, really brilliantly done.

And meaningful. I think that to take something as ineffable as, like, two people suddenly sparking and devoting the resources to it that like HBO devoted to the Battle of the Bastards. Like, I'm into that. I think I'm into TV doing that. That's a good, that's a good summation of, of its qualities.

I have Copenhagen Cowboy here. Oh yeah, that was this year. That was fun. Is it TV? I don't know. But I, there's only one ref in that. When you were in Europe, where people coming up to you on the street and saying,

monsieur, monsieur, tears in their eyes. Like, thank you for talking about our friends or the office, Copenhagen Cowboy. Is that what people like over there? They weren't. No. Mrs. Davis? Yeah, Mrs. Davis should be on a list.

Yeah. And then two HBO shows, Last of Us and Perry Mason. Perry Mason, who is just reported, will not be returning for a third season. Should we, do you think this affects our plans with Matthew? Because I feel like... I think, so Andy's referring to our pitch to Matthew Reese that we do a 24-hour, seven days a week, Perry Mason dedicated feed called AM to the PM. That's just about Perry Mason.

Some might say Perry Mason's cancellation throws a wrench in the works when it comes to those plans. I disagree. I disagree. If anything, we now have closure. More than that. We can talk about the totality of the experience. If anything, we have Matthew Reese's full and undivided attention.

That's right. That's right. I almost don't want to go back to that well because there haven't been that many guests over the 11 or 12 years of this podcast that I just felt like would be available to hang again to the degree that he was. And maybe he's just a charming guy. I think it was the way he made us feel. No, I'm saying he made us feel great. Yeah. Last of Us grown or shrunk in your estimation since it's airing? Held steady, I think.

I enjoyed having a week to week. I continued to be like this was just an incredibly thoughtfully and well-me. made show. Finally, give us an excuse to watch Chernobyl. So if it did nothing else,

it's a masterpiece, you're right. I think in retro, like as we move past it, I think the highs, and particularly, you know, the third episode that

everyone points to, were really spectacular. That's interesting, that that was the third episode and then it was the third episode of succession, was the plane. Yeah,

that's everybody's, everybody chose the same Zag this year. Three is the new penultimate episode. Three is the new, Yeah, when a new series comes out from David Simon and Pelicanus writes the third episode, look out, especially if you're high in the call sheet.

No, I think for, it's good. That's my takeaway. Some observations for me about our list? Yeah, can I add two other things that were. Of course you can. Because, you know, I've been watching a while TV. Not yesterday because I went to the movies, but otherwise. Just see if you can finish this one out.

It's just getting shaky. So 100 foot wave is not We're considering like narrative TV Are we not? Well that's the thing It's like Top Chef I enjoy traitors You know what I mean

But 100 foot wave is My favorite thing I watch this year Yeah like I like these characters Did you finish it? Than not yet I'm savoring it I'm savoring it On my off-brand VR headset

Which is I just take two Toilipaper rolls And I just watch through them It's weird and I have cuts on my face, but I really feel connected to the ocean. Yeah, 100 foot wave.

Have you dipped into the new season of I think you should leave yet? No. It's fucking funny. Is it? It's... I got a little twittered out on that show. Not anything against that show?

It's so... I'm on the platform to tweet out our links. Do you do that stuff? Intermittently. Like, I don't think it's a very consistent comms plan. Carolina can help. you out with that, I think. It's just, it's so funny that I can't watch it all. Like, I watched the first two

of the new season back to back, which is just like 28 minutes. And by the end of it, I, I was laughing so hard that it felt like an involuntary muscular attack in my body. And I was worried. Like, I was just, because it just kept, you're so suffused in how fucking absurd it is that I kind of, I lost it. Yeah. It's real funny. I've never seen you laugh that hard. No one has and no one will. Okay. This is not. That's a show I would watch on my headset then

because I don't want other people to see what's happening to me. Was there anything else besides those two? No, I think that's it. There's a couple of things here. Slow Horses this year? Slow Horses too, or was that the end of last year? It was end of last year, I think. That show is just like the thermostat, man.

It's just there. One second. Let me check. Yeah, that was December. Here's some other things that we thought were cool. We talked about briefly here and there. Lucky Hank. Oh yeah, that would not be on my list.

Okay. Duly noted. What do you want me to say? It was funny, we talked about Lucky Hank, and I was just like, woof. And then you were like, woof question mark? That was the beginning. And then I looked at, in order to prepare for this podcast. I didn't say woof question mark.

I was like, I enjoyed this show. I was just, I didn't want to put words in your mouth, you know, because you hadn't seen seen the idol yet. So I wanted to make sure that you had it properly ranked. But then I went back through, like our podcasts of the year and just look at the titles, you know, and Kaya, who is just the master masseuse at this, that episode is called Lucky Hank and the Pleasures of Soft TV. I was like, I was not soft in my one episode assessment of that show. I also have great expectations here. Oh, I never checked it out. That was dope.

Kind of grimy, though. Yeah. It's funny that Ted Lasso and Yellow Jackets and some shows that we've talked about over the years did not warrant much conversation on this podcast. I don't think it's that funny. It's a little funny. It's not not funny. It's not as funny as the second episode of I think you should leave season three. Cunk on Earth. Oh my God. That's a great show. Thank you for that. Thank you for reminding me of that. Why did we stop talking about Party Down? I guess there's really not a ton to say other than it was fun. Yeah, I think that I didn't know what else to say about it. I think that if the mandate was, let's do more Party Down a few years later, it cleared that bar gladly and happily. And I don't even mean that with any, like, venom in my voice. I just feel like

we got more of something. It was awesome. I don't think it was, what did disruptor say? It wasn't iterating. You know? That's right. Other than that, I mean, there's a lot of stuff. There's, you know, the night court reboot. We liked talking about that for an episode. I mean, did you, like, here's a thing. When we, we get together now in person and we record these podcasts and we talk about stuff. And then apparently I go home and I do other things and you go home and you keep fucking grinding. You watch more of these shows. You re-watch movies from the recent past.

You keep it moving. You have a just punishing FIFA schedule with your 12-year-old. Did you watch, like, do you and Phoebe Cuddle up and watch the latest night court? No, no. I mean, I try to sample me. Is it because you're angry about the water?

No, Phoebe and I, I think you know this about us. Yeah. To come down from a hard day work. Yeah. And a furious three-course meal that we prepare every evening. It's a furious meal? Because she didn't bring you water? I want to go revisit that.

Yeah. Decelerate is we watch an episode of Law & Order SVU. You've never said this before. Every single night. No, no. I was like, yes, we know the story, Chris. But I thought it was like we watch a classic multicam sitcom. No, every single night now we watch an episode of Law & Order SVU.

since when? Probably last year. Oh, so it is new. I didn't know this. Does it make you feel calm? Nostalgia for New York, yeah. Also, does it make you feel better knowing that the special criminals

are being put away? Not always, though. I thought every episode they ended up on bars. Sometimes it ends on like a little bit of an ambiguous note. Especially when someone's claiming insanity. And it's like, was he? Oh, and then it goes, done, done. but like a little bit of ambiguous minor key version.

So is it the same time every night? Like 11.15, yeah. Do you ring a bell? Like, how do you signal that? We're done. I've applied all my night creams, you know, and then it's time to fireups, SBU. How many?

The best shit about SBU, can I just say, is when you think it's about one thing and then in like 20 minutes, it's like about something else. The best thing about SVU for me or any law and order is still that like, despite being investigated by these cops

for over 20 years, the good people of New York still think it's more important to keep stacking their file boxes when the cops are there? Like, it's still the greatest thing that they're just, they're still busy. Wait, are you doing it from the beginning? We are right now in like the season four, five era. Did you start with season one? No, because those aren't available on Peacock.

Yeah, we jump around a little bit. But, you know, also like a lot of them kind of run together where you're like, didn't we see this already? Can you imagine? Hasn't Helen Slater been on this show before? Yeah, they repeat. But like, can you imagine the coverage of like 23 news media if New York had just had this epidemic of sex crimes, the degree that the show suggests that it did? That's not funny.

It's not but like, no, because like, oh, it's okay to be like a lot of people got murdered in Jessica Fletcher's backyard. Right. But like, man, it's gnarly. That was the original name of that show. Do you know that Law & Order's sex crimes? No, it wasn't. Yes, it was.

It didn't ever. SVU really rolls off the tongue better. I'm glad I don't have to be like... At the last minute, they were like... My wife and I love watching sex crimes at the end of the night. With that... That's just what people do in these coastal... I'm off to go see a Spider-Man cartoon.

Andy, it's been... Don't Welch on this. So refreshing to be in the studio with you. Don't welch. You're going to go see it, right? I'm definitely going to see it. I'm going to see it like 3 o'clock today. So how much time do you have to watch the first one? Unless Bill needs me.

Oh, all right. So there's a caveat. Kaya, the best in the biz on her last show with us. Chaya does have a resume open. I'm not sure if it's... And we'll be back on Monday for Across the Universe. Nope.

Into the Spiderverse. Across the Spiderverse. Nailed it. And Top Chef finale. Yeah, it's going to be great. And we'll Idol episode two talk. Are you ready to go? You want the smoke?

Yeah. Okay. We have to continue this debate. It's not just one conversation. No, that's true. That's the problem. The problem is that it's an ongoing conversation. It's not like what Chris Lecht was trying to do with CNN.

Okay? There's nuance to this. Bye-bye. Goodbye.