The Watch - Our Mid-2022 Top 10 Shows

Episode Date: July 7, 2022

Chris and Andy are back to count down the best shows of the year … so far! They begin the episode by discussing the runners-up that didn't make their top 10 lists (1:10), then divulge their contenders for best shows of 2022 at the midway point (25:20). Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Producer: Devon Manze Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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My name is Chris Ryan. and I am an editor at the Ringer.com and joining me on the other line, an honorable mention for my first half of the year top 10 list. It's Andy Greenwald! I just want to be in the conversation. I was. You considered me? We actually, funnily enough, finished right beneath conversations with friends in my honorable mentions.

So to be clear, the fictional television show about conversations with friends was better for you this year than conversations with your actual friend. Look, who can say? Andy, today we are going to do our half-year top-10 lists. Everybody's doing them. The Ringer did one, Miles and Allison did one on the site. You can see pretty much everywhere on the internet. This has become now, I guess, an annual tradition to do your sort of summer best of the year.

It speaks to the robust offering of Peak TV, does it not? Yeah, I was, you know me. When the world ziggs, I like to zag. So I wasn't sure that I'm just outside the box thinker, you know? I wasn't sure we should do this. And then I started compiling. So I was like, yeah, I'm sure there were like three things that I really liked. And then I made a list of 15 things that I liked.

Yeah. And then I realized we have to do this because the end of year thing is almost impossible at this point. We need to take stock and give some credit where credit is due to shows that may fall off by the end of the year. Just simply because there's just too much. Yeah. And we did get into like the little, I mean, we started out with some rules. And then when we decided where we were going, we didn't need any rules. Yeah. So it's kind of like these are a little

slapdash, but I also think that they point to an excellent year in TV. So we'll get to that in just a bit. Andy, first of all, it's great to see you. I have not podcasted on the Watch podcast in 10 days or something like that because I was away and then July 4th. So did anything happen while I was gone? In the country or just with me? No, just on like, you know, in the world of this podcast,

anything you want to update me on. Oh, no, I think it was pretty much steady as she goes. You know, I did, I got to do a monologue again last week, which really makes me feel alive. I got to be honest with you. Like, I'm thinking that just might be the future, you know? Do you think that you are like kind of veering towards solo potting? I have to say, no. I think it's a terrible idea.

But there are certain moments in life when one, you know, is asked to step up. Yeah. And particularly when those moments coincide with Olivier Asias delivering an incredibly meta homage to both his own films and the larger history of 20th century French cinema, as he did with HBO's current series, Irmovep. Like, that's a good moment for me to really just go ISO, I think. That makes sense. I agree. So I'm going to be publishing my own seven-hour shot-by-shot breakdown of Stranger Things season four. I feel terrible about this.

You should monologue about that. Like that show, you know, I like to do a thing where I'm like, is it really popular? Yeah, it's really popular. And I am off the boat. And I feel sorry about that. This is, you know, it's interesting you bring this up. Because not only did I finish Stranger Things season four, which I have to say, I thoroughly enjoyed, even though even with my check out the big brain on Brad, still like, don't know if I understand the upside down and the gates and like what running up the hill does for people and everything. Yeah, but I thoroughly, thoroughly enjoyed Stranger Things.

season four. And, you know, I also was watching this show The Terminalist. You know, you know about this, like the Chris Pratt show on Amazon, which is also apparently a major hit, right? Major hit, yes. Yeah. And it's like, it's so funny how we've now recreated this, like, there's now Blockbuster TV. And now Stranger Things gets broken down, like, to the, to the nanosecond and everybody's got theories and everybody is, like, meaming, like, you know, Will crying or Eddie playing guitar or whatever it is. But it's funny how that seems to have now, kind of like separated itself out of like mainstream critical discourse and is now just like this blockbuster thing that happens as is shows like terminal list or some of the Taylor Sheridan shows.

Yeah. There's like almost this in between where I think it's not like this is us, but it's where the blockbuster network shows used to be. Like now there are like the streaming band of blockbuster shows that don't actually seem to have that a ton of discourse around them, at least Terminalist. Stranger Things does obviously a ton, a huge fan contingent. for that. But it's funny how like hits happen, regardless of critical, like, kind of back. I'm kind of cobbling this together on the fly, but I think both of those shows are examples of

very contemporary phenomenon that I think suggests we need to come up with different language to talk about these things. And the reason why I say that is when Stranger Things started, I mean, you and I both adored the first season. I loved it. I really enjoyed a lot of the second season. And then I just kind of tapped out. But I think that my enjoyment of it was still, a little bit shaded with a maybe snarky or critical feeling of like, well, you know, they're just riffing on our childhood literally, you know, and it's kind of repackaged toys from the 80s, just, you know, they've taken them out of their packaging and they're playing with them in a different era. It has now reached a point culturally where it is its own upside down pocket

universe where I think it is celebrated and adored because it doesn't connect to anything else. And I think the large majority of people who love it all didn't, weren't a lot of. live when Ghostbusters came out. You know what I mean? Didn't see it in the theater. So it's its own thing. And it is now, I think, and with good reason, going to be held up as an example of non-IP-based storytelling. Yeah, like, I think it is. And I think people love it for that reason. It doesn't have the baggage of something like, you know, I mean, we keep dumping on Obi-Wan. But like, and I think Obi-1 was probably a rating success for Disney. But it's a different type of engagement with a phenomenon. And as far as the terminalist thing, so for people who aren't aware of it, this is, uh,

Pratt's return to television after Parks and Rec and after his creatine diet. And it is a very, very serious, like, Navy SEAL hunting down people who betrayed his team. It's Jack Richard without the jokes. And it's an hour-long episodes. But it's Chris Pratt plays a, it's very like 80s action, actually, because it's basically Chris Pratt avenging something that happens to him, both on a mission with the Seals, but then what happens, something that happens to him at home. And he and his, like, partner played by Taylor Kitch.

are like kind of moving through essentially like killing people who who have like wronged them it was one of the first episodes was directed by antoine fukua i think he's the executive producer he obviously also worked on mayor of kingston jean triple horn is in it like it's it's like it's kind of wild like the amount of people that are in it and it is like i find it weirdly entertaining although like incredibly humorless and serious itself about itself but i i have heard least anecdotally that it's like a really big success. Well, I think the reason why I think we need to reconsider the way we talk about these things is it comes from the point you made about like broadcast TV hits, right?

Like, again, this is just our framing of things. Like, even as recently as five years ago, something like the James Spader show, The Blacklist, you know, I remember I wrote about the first few episodes for Granland because I was covering broadcast stuff then. We don't talk about it. We're not engaged with it. It is still on the air, I believe. And it has considerably more viewers than a lot of the stuff we talk about.

You know what I mean? So I still think we carry some, you know, I don't know whether it's like coastal flyover state cultural thing where it's like, that's great. That's a TV phenomenon. But it's not in the same sphere as the stuff we talk about. Now, the sphere of the stuff we talk about in the past five, seven years ago was movie stars making a big splash with these streaming companies that have a lot of money to spend and a lot of, you know, high budget, high gloss stuff. Chris Pratt and Antoine Fuqua making a show for Amazon is what we talk. about. But the show they made is in the vein of the types of shows we don't talk about. So it's just, it's just kind of a fracturing of the landscape in a way that runs against a narrative that I think

that we still bring to a lot of the coverage that we do. It's, I, I think that, you know, as you said, the Sheridan verse proves like, there's money in them hills of America. Yes. He shows not about therapists or retconning, you know, feminist magazines in the 70s. Shout out to Minks, which I'm about to talk about. You know what I mean? Like, there's, and there's no, we're not speaking about this pejoratively. It's just not generally what I watch or what we talk about. And yet the money and attention and stars are going to go there too.

Yeah. Well, maybe one day I'll do a separate show on this feed that's just like Chris Ryan monologic about what real Americans watch. Do you know what you just did to the CR heads Reddit board? You just poured catnip directly, directly into their meow mix. Like, that is wild. Do you want to talk a little bit about only murders in the building? Because it came back for its second season.

This is a show that we chatted about when the first debuted for a couple of weeks and became kind of speaking of hits. I think something of a sensation. I've noticed that, and maybe this is specific to the larger Hulu umbrella of shows, but I've noticed we were getting a couple of quicker turnarounds on seasons. So we got only murders a year after the last one about. And we're getting Reservation Dog Season 2 in August. When did that air?

It feels like it aired like last year. The end of last August, September. Yeah. I mean, these are examples of shows that when we found out they were renewed were well on their way to production. I'm sure. You know. And this is also how TV is supposed to work where the show comes on at the same time every year.

You're totally right, though. Doesn't that also? I mean, this is interesting. I don't think we intended to speak about paradigm shifts. You guys aren't taking two and a half years in between these seasons. But for real, like, only murders in the building coming back, A, at all, and B, instantly feels very odd. Like, it is definitely not the timetable we're used to for anything even vaguely prestigious.

Well, I think, like, oh, Steve Martin, Selena Gomez must have so much to do. He must have a banjo tour. Yeah, or like, whatever. Like, they've just must have, like, movies and music and everything. And then it's just like, oh, you guys just want to knock another one of these out. I personally find this one even more pleasant than the last one. I think pleasant is sort of the operative word people use to describe murders.

It's just like such a nice experience to watch it. Comedy is, you know, like well sort of... It's really like finely tuned, but also feels daffy and goofy at times, which is really nice and it's like talking birds and, you know, all like these little like kind of like walk-a-waka moments along with. with very rye, very, like, well-s sort of honed comedy. So I really enjoy it. And then this season, so far, the first three episodes,

I just really kind of enjoy the plotting and the sort of like them already being established as these true crime podcasters having to solve yet another murder that they are implicated in. Yeah, I really, I think you said the best possible word for the show, which is pleasant. And it's tough to kind of shelve the show in a way.

because we covered the first few episodes. I think we were really excited because it did feel very different, and Martin Short's performance is just extremely special. But my urgency really waned with the show, and I never have considered that a reflection of my admiration or enjoyment of it. It's never been the first or second option

on my docket. You know what I mean? Right. Which, by the way, again, I don't mean that pejoratively, and I think that I think other people don't feel that way because to your point, I've heard anecdotally, this is a huge success for Hulu. And, you know, maybe if not their biggest,

one of their biggest original comedy. So everything's working. And I kind of enjoyed the way the second season didn't really stress about that, you know, was like, yeah, we ended in a pretty high-stakes place. We won't spoil it in case you're not caught up. Or if you just sort of forgot to finish the first season, like I realized I had done a few weeks ago.

And then it was like, okay, so we'll address that. but then we'll just dial the stakes meter back a little bit. I think it's a show that's actually, it's good for the second season, though, because in the first season, it takes a few episodes for them to come together and then even more episodes for them to start getting along. And in the second season, it actually opens with,

or I think in one of the first few episodes, Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are having a celebration among the three of them with bottles of champagne, for their podcast that they did in the first season and I'm like, this is actually great. I don't really need any kind of like false conflict between the three of them right now.

Like I'm very happy just to watch the three of these people like move through this comic adventure. Do you think anyone else is going to pick up the mantle of cross-generational community shows? You know what I mean? Because we, I think one of the things that drew attention to it was the sort of just on-paper strangeness of Steve Martin and Martin's or legends of one generation

who collaborate all the time with, excuse me, I'm sorry, what's this you're telling me of my earpiece, Selena Gomez? Yes. And the fact that the character's name is Mabel suggests that it was written maybe to be a contemporary of Martin and Martin and then wasn't, but it worked, right? And so... Well, she's an old soul, you know?

But it's a different energy, just simply having age groupings like that. Yeah. You know, it takes some tensions and energies away and puts different ones in, and I enjoy that. I think it's just a different speed pitch that we're being thrown. It is unabashedly what it is. Like, it's unabashedly Manhattan. It's unabashedly rooted in a kind of shouts and murmurs aesthetic. Like, I really appreciate what it does, even if it's like, I mean, I was going to say

it's playing to a sort of a small audience, but it's playing to, in fact, a very big audience. I think the, this is another example of a show where if it was one season, everyone would be like, good job with that one season. But also, everyone seems to be enjoying it so much, both making it and watching it. that why wouldn't, why wouldn't they keep it going? And I feel like of all the things to get, I mean, this is a straw man. I don't think anyone's getting that exercised about this stuff.

But I think like Jim Ponawazik in The New York Times was just, you know, less charmed by the second season. He was like, I don't really think, no matter how many times they talk about how second seasons of podcasts are disappointing, it's not taking the sting out of the fact that this is a little disappointing. But honestly, I still feel a little stranger about the old man getting renewed a midway through. And we don't really know which way it's going yet,

than I would about something like this. Like I, or today I saw, you know, your honor, the Bryant-Cranston limited series. Yeah, but did you see it got renewed for a second season, but then also like is ending

and also has gone through like four show runners. I'm not laughing at that. No, but also what was it? You know what I mean? Like this distinction of like what, and as I said last week, mid monologue,

I'm sure you caught it, Chris, like our friends at FX assured me that the old man was always intended to go on. They just, you know, weren't ready to commit or the deals weren't done. Yeah. It is interesting when you can,

when things, it's always best to just have a sense of what you want to be doing. Everybody wants to know, though, are we getting more Irma? Oh, I think you've got to wait a couple decades, though, to remake it again. Good. That's something to stay alive for then. Honestly, I'm brusping at straws. So if that's it, I'll take it. That makes sense to me.

Should we get into our top tens? Is there anything else you wanted to chat about at the top? Just quick temperature check for you with the boys season three, heading into the we're already at the finale, aren't we? Yeah. These seasons are so short. This season was 10 hours long

for 10 weeks. No, it's, no, it's eight. Is it? Oh, I thought it was 10. No, and it's five weeks because they drop three at once. Oh, yeah. Well, how about that?

Do you think that this was an ideal way of releasing the show? I continue to think that it's a very smart way to release the show, and I think it's they're doing, you know, it's what they've got. I think everybody involved wishes there was more,

except maybe the people who have to make it because it's really hard work. Yeah. Except save the lube guy on the boys. It's just like, I'm out. I'm done. Supply chain, dog. Colby Minifie from the Boys was on last week and she was referring to like six months in Toronto, which is a lovely place to spend half the year.

But, you know, it's an ensemble show. And there must be a lot of days when you're not working. And a lot of days where the people who are on set every day are really working. So all of that said. Yeah, I enjoy getting three after a long break and then really enjoying the season. For a couple weeks, yeah. I just wanted to check in to say that this isn't going to put anyone on or off the fence, but last week's episode, Penultimate episode, featured the mute character of Black Noir retreating

into his childhood like Chuck E. Cheese's knockoff spot where he's visited by his only true and constant friends, which are animated animals. Yeah, I couldn't tell whether or not those were supposed to be canonical animals. Like, was I supposed to know any of those? Did Bezos buy like all the IP for the chipmunks and stuff? No. Throw them in there? No, but I imagine, you know, Vought could spin them off into a series of chain restaurants.

Have you noticed that they, how committed they are to this bit that if you ever go on the X-ray feature the Prime video has, where it's like who's in the scene, which I wish other, when I start, when I'm in a moment or I'm watching a lot of Amazon shows, I really do that when I'm watching. other services to be like, who is that, who is that character actor? Oh, and you like want to click on the left side of Apple? And it's just like, too bad you will never know who's in for all mankind. You'll have to wait for the credit sequence. I bought a MacBook air by accident the other day. But no, but like that when you watch the boys, it has like little factoids within the universe. Yeah.

That's that IMDB integration, dog. No, but like fictional ones where you're just like when they're taking down one of the guys, the mind, what was the guy's name? the mind crime guy or whoever who they, Soldier Boy went after last week. Mindstorm. There's like a little bio about like Mindstorm's TV show in the 80s. How smart is that?

It's cute. It's fun. Anyway, I just want to do stuff like that more. Like I feel like, we used to make things in this country. But wasn't there like a lot of like Cloverfield like site? I mean like obviously going back to Blair Witch, I feel like there's been viral stunts around these

movies but like or shows. But I feel like did Lindelof ever do stuff like that? I mean, I am not saying this to suggest that I'm on that level, but I do think that when you have a creative opportunity, people within the rooms get really excited about the possibilities of that kind of integration. Are you talking about designing your own beer labels for Briar Patch? No, I'm talking about we did a podcast.

We did a podcast of a show within the show within the fictional universe of someone with our reporter, Ginger was like reporting on the case for fans of the show. And it was great. It was so fun. We had great actress Sarah Minich and Brian Brown and other people who wrote for the show really poured their heart and soul into it. Ultimately, even with the much smaller fan base of this show, I don't know how much appetite there is for extra meta stuff. I don't know. And I feel like that, but with something like the boys, they have the interest that they can do that and they certainly have the budget.

And I think I applaud him because I think that must be so fun to do. Anyway, I just wanted to say the cartoon stuff, that's really why I like the show. You know, I like the show for its merit. Well, talk about it. It's on my top 10 list. no spoilers. I just thought that was awesome and fun and it just stays surprising. Monday, let's have a longer conversation about it. Because I have a couple of questions as someone who I think watches it a little bit more casually than you that I wear.

Not with the X-ray factoids on the screen at all times. Also second screening with all of their TikToks and Instagram lives. Just be like, did they have fun on that day? Let me see if I can see what Anthony Star was wearing. Why don't we get into our top tens, right? Let's do it. Because historically, Chris. All I got left is, like, my guide guided trip through southwestern Oregon. So, like, I have nothing else really to share. Whenever we do top 10 lists, what's good is that it's just historically some of our fastest

shows. You know what I mean? We just sail through them. Let me tell you. Yeah. First of all, Sam's not here, so we can move quickly. Second, here's one interesting thing that I would like to mention about. Okay.

I don't know why I'm sounding like Brian Windhorst. Here's the thing about my top 10 list. Okay. I am fully expecting to put industry on it. I am probably going to wind up liking, I think, House of the Dragon, just because I'm primed for it. I'm ready for it. There's a couple of shows coming out in the second half of the year

that I'm excited for. They're going to have to be really good to get on this list. I think that we had, like, a very blinkered, like, slapping our faces to kind of stay awake at the wheel kind of moment maybe in the spring when the Emmy rush came. It was like, there's 10 new shows that came out on Thursday. I don't know what we're going to do about this. I don't know how we stay up on winning time at the same time as Ozark,

at the same time as all these shows. I feel like we've leveled out. The last couple of weeks, I felt like very able to concentrate on like Barry or we own the city or whatever shows at any given time. And the stuff I have on this list, I'm like, it's going to have to be pretty significant achievement in television to get above this. that or the other. Yeah.

No, I don't, I don't disagree with you at all. And I think, by the way, speaking of things that are still coming, though, you mentioned before I didn't want to get away with it, get away from it without calling it out. Reservation Dogs is coming back quickly, FX and Hulu. Trailer dropped yesterday, Boku to Feelings. Like, it's a phenomenal trailer for a show that I adored, and everyone should check out this trailer. Everyone needs to get familiar with that wonderful show.

I loved that even the trailer had that thing that we loved about the show so much where it's just like, oh, yeah, this can be anything and it's going to be anything. And it really focused on how... It doesn't give away the entire plot of the season. Because I think it's post-plot. You know what I mean? It really was emotional in a way that I just thought was really confident for a show that probably needed to sell itself as a comedy at the jump and now already knows what it is. So that's exciting. And right, like, that's still to come. I think the other you alluded to before about like sort of rules that we had or didn't have or didn't really ascribe to, we took different paths with it. So for example, Better Call Saul, which is back next week. Yeah. Is not on my list only because I'm desperate to know what this season is. I am going with the Dave Wasserman here. I've seen enough. I love it. I'm saying that I think

I've seen enough of Saul from this season and have enough confidence in it that I think I can't not put it on. That being said, you know, I thought about getting really cute. So I did not put, Station 11 is not on either of our list. That because we, we dedicate, but some people have said like, oh, because it was, it broadcast into 2020. It was our best show of 2021. So yeah, I know. I feel okay about that. I'm just, I'm just, in case anybody out there wants to get into bylaws and rules and regulations, I'm just saying, I didn't do anything,

really, like, I tried to stay off of anything that was like in December, but whatever, like, it is what it is. And then, as far as shows that aren't finished yet, it's really down to boys, old man, and Better Call Saul. We can look at our lists, but I decided that I'd seen enough from Better Call Saul to include it.

Okay. I respect that. And that is this first half of the season. I'm not like weeks ahead on Better Call Saul. Okay, well, let's get into our list. Last thing, Honorable mention, I'm embarrassed about this, but I got to come clean because who am I, if I'm not honest with you guys?

Remember Reacher? Yeah. I really love Reacher. It's in my honorable mentions. Okay. Oh, you have honorable mentions? It's my only honorable mention because I didn't finish it. Like a dummy.

You didn't? No. I just, I forgot. And then I was away. Then we got into that deluge. And I almost forgot it existed. It's amazing. He moves to Ireland and just starts chatting with people about Marxism.

Just has some convos. Wow. I would love that crossover. Reacher is great. And I'm happy it exists. and I'm going to get back to it. So that's my honorable mention. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime.

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Why do we do our lists and why don't we... You want to mix it up a little bit and start with one. Wow, yeah. Well, because we always go 10 to 1, and I understand that it's like we build up anticipation to get to one. But I also think that you and I are going to share a bunch of these tops. Yeah, our top threes are probably interchangeable, right? Top three or fours?

So I have, should we do that? Should we do start at the top? Are we going to lose the listeners? I don't know. I feel like people are going to be clinging to their earbuds waiting to know. You know what? This is a democracy. You want to start a 10?

We can start at 10. I kind of want to start a 10 because I'd rather spend more time talking about what was great. And when I say this is a democracy, I let you do what you want. Yeah. So let me monologue about my 10 through 6. You can turn off your, you can mute yourself. Irma Vep episode 3. Go ahead.

Go ahead. Irma VEP is an honorable mention. Irma VEP is not on my list, not finished. No, my number 10 is Minks, HBO Max show, our buddy, Jake Johnson, lots of dongs. And you stuck with it. I kind of fell off this one, not out of like spite,

just out of over... There's a lot of shows like that this season. You know, our flag means death is another HBO Max show that I really, really enjoyed. Me too. On my own. We didn't finish as it should be. Minks really impressed me

because it just, after a very premacy pilot, it was really like, this is a workplace comedy in a really, like, fun, contemporary, even though it's a period piece way. And Jake's performance is awesome. I just, I just really enjoy the show. I was happy. It got renewed. Happy to include it on the list. I think it's just nice. It's one of those things. I'm like, oh, great. There it is. It was really happy. It was there during a tumultuous couple months. My number 10 is going to show up elsewhere on your list. We can do it now, though, if you want to. And that's severance on Apple. I think that probably most people who will have severance

on like any kind of top 10 list. I've seen it ranked quite high on a lot of critics lists on some of the folks in our Facebook group have made their own lists. So severance is among the best shows of the year, among many people's most beloved shows of the year. I liked it a lot. We talked with

Adam Scott about it. I thought it was a very, very, very cool show that lost me in terms of my level of like engagement at certain points over the course of the season. But ultimately was quite an astounding piece of work. I agree. It's my number nine. And again, the ranking is almost random other than the very top. I think for me, the severance thing is a head versus heart thing.

Interesting. It's a good way of putting it. I struggle to find an emotional connection to the show outside of the astounding performances. You love your work and you love your life. So it's kind of like how... Who can choose? Where can I get in here? You know? What's my way in?

But like Adam's performance, John Trouture's performance, just beautiful emotion and depth to what they do. That compelled me. Otherwise, what I was more than anything else with the show was deeply impressed, and I respect it. And I keep... I always hedge when I use those words, because I don't want people to think that's kind of like a...

You know, I'm hugging you, but I'm hitting you. Like, the production level... and the commitment and Dan Erickson, the writer's creativity and Ben Stiller's direction are just almost overwhelming, you know, I, but I am probably overweighting the dip in midseason where I was appreciating it more than I was enjoying it and underrating the majesty of the finale, which was one of the best hours of TV I remember for a long time. But I, but it's been interesting anecdotally. I think you probably have seen this as well. Like, people in our lives, both personally and professionally love this show.

And when I talk to them about it, I think they love it in an emotional way. Like they want to know what the secret is. And I still watch it without caring so much. I just am enjoying it, which is a different level of engagement. But I also noticed that the way people talk about it is really speaking to a desire to have shows, quote, unquote, like this.

Shows that reward being thoughtful or interested in complicated ideas or heaviness, you know, or mystery. people miss that kind of engagement and are really happy that the show is there to help fill the gap and I'm happy the show's continuing because I think it, I don't often say this about successful first seasons. There's no reason why the show shouldn't improve, frankly, now that it has its footing and it has a momentum.

Yeah, not unlike the reason that I was kind of talking about with only murders is there's a lot of severance in the first season in the first half of the first season that is kind of like getting your bearings. And that can be, very thrilling because you're always like where is this place and does he know that this thing is happening and what does she want and she seems like she has a secret

and once you get past all that stuff maybe some of the some of the mysteries gone maybe some of the charm along with it but I think that sometimes it makes for more more compelling or at least more like they're a little bit more movement to the storytelling a little bit more tempo so my number nine Andy is euphoria. Talk about it. Clear out. I don't watch it.

So, this is a show that just fully leaves its body for 60 minutes every time it's on. I have no, you know, like, I watch it. My jaw's on the floor, both because of what's happening on screen and what Sam Levinson is doing in terms of filmmaking on a weekly basis

and what Zendaya is doing as a performer on a weekly basis. And at the same time, like, I know it's like so many, It's so derivative. It's so over the top. It's so, so, so, so. It doesn't barely make sense. It's like, what's this plot? Why is this now we're just doing boogie nights in this episode? And now we're going and cutting and having like a fantasy sequence that's like this meta conversation about writing and performance. I just think it's like kind of a unique achievement on TV right now. A lot of the shows that I wind up putting on my top 10 lists are very, very, very much themselves. And, I will forgive a lot if I feel like they're going for it. A show is really going for it. Or a show is really like aware of its own kind of voice, aware of its own world.

And it's just kind of living life to the fucking max inside those boundaries. And I think that that can be applied to almost every show on my list. But yeah, Euphoria, I think obviously also another one of these like just a gigantic fucking big hit. And in some ways, like I just don't even understand how they made it. Like I don't understand how.

it just looks the way it looks. It feels the way it feels. I don't know what they're going to do for the third season. Talk about burning up on reentry. I don't know what other plot there is here, but it is just a really, really, really captivating show for me. I know my next one is on your list, and I think maybe you should take the lead on it.

Pichinko is low on my list only because, and again, Mia Culpa, I realized I haven't finished it. And not a slight on Sue Hugh and the cast and the just incredible undertaking of this show, I was savoring it and then I got swept away and I have to return to it. So my guess is, and this is the Korean immigrants to Japan and then to America, Family Saga that's on adapted from the beloved book. It's Apple TV Plus.

We had to see you on when the show first aired, yeah. I'm just going to put this as a placeholder because I just thought this was just a beautiful, really captivating achievement and I have a feeling it might be. even be higher on my end of the year list. I have it at number four, and I think you will feel the same way. Yeah, this is on me, and we'll revisit. Okay, so that was your number nine? That was eight.

Oh, number eight. Yeah. Okay, I have, at number eight, I have this is going to hurt. This is going to hurt. I don't know why I keep saying, gonna, like, I am American. So this is going to hurt. Oh, Andy and I talked about this a couple weeks ago. Is the Ben Wischaw, I wouldn't say dromedy because it's not, it's, it's

rye and droll, but I don't. think it's got any like real like laugh lines, although there's some humor to it, uh, about a, um, an OBGYN ward in an NHS hospital in England, uh, in sort of the mid 2000s. And it's just basically about this guy, Adam, who is coming to terms with the barriers he puts up around him because of like what he sees on a daily basis and what he has to deal with in terms of losing patients or in terms of working with people and how those barriers kind of extend out to his personal life with his boyfriend or with his mother. And I've been, you know, I finished the series and I just thought it was astonishing.

Like, I think there are elements of it that are a little uneven. Some of the sort of breaking the fourth wall, some of the tonal stuff gets like a little bit hairy at points. But this is kind of just one of those old school. Like, I'll watch Ben Wish I'll read the phone book. And he is so good in this show and gets better and better as the season. goes on and he's allowed to sort of explore a couple of different shades of this character. And it never disappointed, though I understand it is it can be tough skiing for some people.

Yeah, I'm glad you're celebrating it. I watched too, so it didn't really qualify for my list yet, but I love Ben Wishaw, admired what I saw and we'll revisit. Okay, you're up. Abbott Elementary, obviously premiered at the end of last year, but had its full season. This year, ABC sitcom, Quinta Brunson, an enormous hit. hit, an enormous, like, old-fashioned feel-good hit. We love hits on this show. I love shows that make people feel things on a larger scale. I love the ambition of that, and I love the feeling when it connects. And we're going to talk about this when we get to the top of our list as well

with a certain show that a lot of people are talking about right now. It's wonderful to share things, you know, and that's not the Terminalist, though. Well, I don't know if Terminalist is exhilarating or uplifting for necessarily the right reasons at this moment in American history. But Abbott Elementary is, you know, it's a, it's a, the office style mockumentary multi-cams sitcom set in a struggling Philadelphia public school. And it just worked from jump in a way that just feels really good, you know, and Quinta Brunson gets all the deserved accolades. But I got to give a special shout out to Janelle James, who plays Ava, the principal, who is so savagely funny on the show. And, you know, I think you could feel them start figuring out that character

rhythm and just serving up juicier and juicier fastballs to her. And just as a side note, if you enjoyed Abbott Elementary, Janelle James has a half hour standup special on Netflix, which is highly recommended. How different is her standup persona from her on the show persona? Not that different. Not too different. And it's all the better for it. Okay. My next one is number seven. I have righteous gemstones. I'm glad. I'm glad that's there. Did you watch this season of gemstones? Yeah, man. I race through all of it. so we could talk to Danny.

Oh, that's right. I really enjoyed it. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I just love this show so much. It's a great show. The show is kind of like also sneakily become like a pretty good drama at times or at least a really well-plotted Dixie Crime Show. And I really enjoy like the ensemble.

Like they really give everybody something to do. And you never know on any given episode who's going to come off the bench. and just score 22 points in 8 minutes in one of these episodes. So this I thought was kind of even better than the first season, and I can't wait to see where it goes from here. These guys just make TV that I love to watch. It was the case with Eastbound. It was the case of Vice Principles.

It's the case now. I sort of sometimes selfishly wish they would do even more or really even more prolific. But when you think about the undertaking where it's essentially it's a cottage industry for them, And I think they shoot this stuff down in South Carolina where these guys all live. Like him and David Gordon Green and Jody Hill just, they really know what they're doing. And this show is just so reliably entertaining to me.

Totally agree. Nice pivot to my next show, which I feel the same way about totally entertaining, very reliable. Love having it in my life. Hacks on HBO Max. They know what they're doing. You know, had Lucia and Paul and Jen back on the show the other week to talk about how they make the drama and comedy, their plan beyond the season, you know, the show is coming back. Thankfully, Gene Smart and Hannah Eindbender are phenomenal. And this is another one where I was like,

it was like a fleeting gift. I wish it had run longer. I wish, you know, I just wish there are more episodes of it because I love it. Makes me really happy. My number six is slow horses. Oh, my number four, but at this point, we're just quibbling. So you take it. Talk about why it's so good. No, you go. I want to hear you. I want to hear you. I want to hear. You talk about slow horses. Slow horses is one of those things that feels like it was designed in a lab for us. Based on British crime novels about the kind of failures, I guess, of the British spy establishment who are banished out of the main fancy offices into a place they call Sloughhouse where a very

drunk and flagellant Gary Oldman berates them all day. I loved the vibe. I loved the production values and the expense. I love that this is Gary Oldman and Kristen Scott Thomas, just doing whatever they want. I also love the feeling of, even though it wasn't, I mean, we talked about this when we covered the show. The finale of Slow Horses ends with a preview of the already filmed second season. So we didn't really know that. But once we got to that kind of elite flex, I was like, yeah.

I was like, boy, is it a good feeling to know we're just going to hang out here that we're going to get more of them. And there's a bunch of books. So there's probably be a bunch of seasons. Didn't it get like a four season renewal? I believe it's for, I think Mick Haren. who came on the pod has written 10 books. When I talked to Graham Yost about the show, he said, we will make this for as long as Gary Olin

wants to play the part. Now, and I love that. There's a feeling, it's like a solid investment. You know, it's like Black Rock or something. Like, here's the money. Like, just take care of it. But this is the thing is, it's not, it's not like, I think if you're making six episode adaptations

of really tight novels, there must be a little bit less of a headache when it comes to like, what are we going to do now? Like we have this board that's empty, you know, what were the stakes? Like, the stakes are that this is a very enjoyable world to live in, that this is a very, like, charming group of people, yeah. I think the dig, as I, you know, went through the season, was I was like, oh, it's really just

going to be one story and one night. Yes. I thought we'd be a little more world building, but then you find out, well, they're just going to do more books and they might have different tenors, tempos, styles of storytelling. So we're just getting started. Did you see the flex that our guy Tony Gilroy had talking about Andor where he's just like, this is a five-year plan. Incredible.

Incredible. And then like they're going to age the characters. Like every few episodes, it's going to be a couple years. It's like, okay. I like when Tony's committed. Me too. Let's just hope she backs him up there. Okay, so what's your number six?

Six is hacks. Five is the boys. We just talked about it, so no need to revisit. I felt very confident putting it here with one episode. So to go, I just think the show is pure pleasure for me and the ability to execute a very challenging contemporary tightrope walk of being incredibly online and responding to the world and shocking and savage and graphic, but also just delivering the episode to episode character beats of a classic 80s or 90s multi-tiered drama.

Yeah. Most shows fail on either extreme. And this show just keeps going forward at both. And I think that speaks to some pretty impressive leadership, honestly, by Eric Kripke and his lieutenants. You know, it's just a very well-run, very large ship. Yeah, I mean, this is the best season of this show. I love this show.

Ordinarily, I'd probably have it on my top 10, but I wanted to, like, shout out a couple of different things that I knew you would have it on there. Just like we just spoke about, I've seen enough. Saul's on my list, but we'll be speaking extensively about Saul over the next couple of weeks as we did for the first six weeks. So next Monday, by the way, that's a good programming note. We'll be going on, we'll release our episode right after Saul. So we will have a Saul review episode on Monday.

What is that, the 11th? Yes. I can tell time. I can certainly look at a calendar. Number four for me, Pachinko, which we talked about. What's your number four? Slow horses. Okay.

So should we jump up to number three? So now I think we have the same three shows at the very top, right? Same three different ranking. Okay, so for me, and again, this is pickum, but for me, we own the city is three, Barry and the Bear. And boy, is that fun that they sound similar. Yeah. So Barry number two for me, the Bear number one. I have Barry number three, the bear number two.

We own the City number one. I have no argument with you, and I don't think you have an argument with me. These are the pinnacle of TV for us this year. What order do you want to run through them in? Should we do the Bear first? Sure. Yeah, and we certainly talked about it a lot. There's still more to say.

But for me, it's number one, you know, it's very hard to quibble when we're at this level. But the thing that put it over the top, and you've heard us praise almost everything about it, is that kind of ineffable belt-holding energy that really still does factor into my enjoyment of things. Grum men, tears in their eyes coming up to you on the street saying, sir, the bear. Thank you. Thank you for the bear. But, yeah, like watching it spread through friends, family, work associates. it's, you know, like a good virus

has been really, really nice and rewarding. Like, people from all age groups from different parts of my life, like... The entire cast of only murders. They love it. No, but like, my agent, who's a 74-year-old man, called and said that he's watched it twice. He doesn't need to watch anything twice.

I've heard a bunch of people being like, I started it over. Because I think once you know where you wind up, you do want to kind of see what the first three or four episodes again. Those five, six, seven, eight, or yeah, five, six, seven? Up through the end. Well, seven is the oneer and then eight is the finale.

Yeah, eight, right. So you want to, that's like such an intense crescendo, and it's such an amazing assemblage of episodes for the second half of the season. But that first half of the season, I think, you know, like with the kids cook out and stuff like that, you want to go back and almost be like, where, let's see where we came from here. Yeah, and I think I want to go back and just push a little bit more on what I was saying earlier about, you know, when I use words like I admire it or I respect it, those really matter. But I admire and respect the casting and the production design, and particularly the direction

of that incredible, you know, industry rattling Warner episode that is episode seven of the bear. But none of that really is in the first sentence of my review or in the headline. You know, the headline is just the spark and the joy and the surprise. Like, I still rank that higher. and that's what makes it number one for me. Let's do Barry. I mean, the thing is we've talked about each one of these shows pretty extensively.

Barry, not unlike the Bear, with a final stretch of episodes in this season that I thought were some of the best that I've seen in recent years, including Barry's kind of purgatory episode and the final two. The final two episodes were just like kind of it is kind of like an MVP performance from Hader as a director and a performer.

But even as a performer, I think one of the brilliant parts about the last few episodes of Barry is the foregrounding of the other characters and the way that Winkler and Sally kind of move forward in sort of the on the stage and get a lot more of the spotlight. This has become something that we talk about when we do our year-end thing, and it's even more evident now, I just listed 10 shows. There are only two returning shows on the list. Now, Severance, Abbott Elementary, these shows have been renewed. And Pachinko has been renewed. We'll revisit. But the only two returning shows on my list are the boys and Barry. And so when we talk about Barry, it's very possible that five years from now, when we look back on this year in TV,

and Barry has, you know, at that point, has ended its run wildly acclaimed, maybe even Panthe on level, considering where the show is gone and where it's going, this may be the best of its best. You know, like, this may be its best season. We don't know that. And so in re-ranking or in retrospect, you know, maybe it becomes the number one show of the year just because of how it stayed with us and we remembered it. Like, what Bill Hader did this season in terms of his performance, in terms of risk-taking, in terms of direction, it's jaw-dropping. It really is. And I don't think I processed it yet, because I was stunned into almost passivity in the first few episodes

before I realized what was happening to me. So hard to overpraise it and very easy to underprase it. And so I'm curious how it sorts out both in the next six months and then in the years ahead. It's cool when there's a show and you can refer to something

as almost like by a code word or a nickname. Like you can just be like, oh, and then there's the chase and then there's the elevator and then there's the beach and then there is the, you know, like, there are a couple things that happen in Barry

that you can kind of use shorthand for and people know what you're talking about because they're so indelible. And then your number one? Super cop man. I did Wii in the city because this one still hasn't left my bloodstream. I still think that

they took something that they, they meaning Pelicanus and Simon, that they were obviously superior almost they're unparalleled at, which is making a cop drama set in Baltimore. And they formally reinvented it and

also imbued it with a kind of an updating of its sensibility, both in terms of its perspective and in terms of its I think almost like it's moral distance, like the distance it holds its characters at. It's closer to

a piece of reportage than I think it is a drama. And that might have been a hurdle for some people who were like, this is dry or this is, like, am I supposed to like Wayne Jenkins? Am I supposed to hate him, like, who's the avatar here? Who's my audience? Like, who am I grabbing onto?

I thought it was brilliant. I thought it was a brilliant continuation of some of the ideas from the wire and also an indictment of whatever hope any of us had coming out of that era when the wire was on. And some of the episodes in this and some of the performances in this are going to stay with me for a real long time. I just thought it was the pinnacle of what TV could do right now.

Anytime David Simon and George Pelicanus bless us with something, it's a gift. And it's a gift both for our appreciation of TV as an art form, but I also do think. And I appreciate that they would poo-poo this. I mean, that they are making a TV show. But I do think it's a gift for our moral centers and our brains and our engagement with the country that we live in. Even when they have missteps or misreadings or, you know, or don't read the room or whatever, like they do so with real honesty of intention and purpose, which shouldn't, be bravery, but I think kind of is in this moment in Hollywood. They run right at the hardest stuff.

And this was such an elevation, you know, in terms of the extra bits that I think people sometimes flag the wire for not having, the showy performance, the more, you know, the more cinematic direction. So the addition of John Bernthal, best performance of the year, I think, star making, though he was already a star, and Reynaldo Marcus Green, who did a beautiful job directing it, phenomenal show. Yeah. Phenomenal show. And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and an, and, and, and it's just incredible achievement.

I agree. I mean, I, I, I, I, I agree with these three. I agree with you. So we can, we'll release. Before we wrap up, I, any other honorable mentions, because I'm realizing there are a few actually, we didn't. Yeah. So, uh, my honorable mentions, obviously, like, there's a couple that Andy mentioned,

hacks and the boys. Uh, I loved Tokyo Vice. Um, I think it's, like, basically two different shows. There's the pilot and then there are the other episodes, but we didn't really get a chance to talk about it that much. Uh, really, really, enjoyed that. Our flag means death really thought was fantastic. If you want to get cute, you can put Vigil. It came out very late in, I think it was very early in January on Peacock,

but it was airing as early as August in England last year. But I really enjoyed Vigil and Outer Range, which is the Josh Boland show on Amazon. I still haven't watched it. What's wrong with me? Which I think you would actually like, because of it's Twin Peaks vibes. Yeah. I'll get to it, I promise. What else did I have here? I like the conversations with friends. I don't think we talked about the old man Well, the old man is an interesting case of it being like We're truly truly truly mid-season of a first season

So all I feel like for me Has enough credit on the ledger And I kind of have a sense of like the momentous What's coming not in a plot way But like knowing what they have to address Over the next couple of weeks That I'm like, come on, how could this be bad? Old man, I'm not saying it could be bad

But I am saying like We've only seen like what three four episodes. And I'm sorry to beat up on it for this reason, but if it was ending in three weeks, I probably would have at least made the case to myself to put it on the list because of what it has already done and thinking that that was already half of what it was going to be. Knowing it is now going to be ongoing for multiple seasons, I'm just curious how it's going to handle it back half the season. It's not the show that I thought it was. It could still be a great show. So I'm just on the fence and excited to watch the rest of it. That's why it didn't make

it for me. Any other honorable mentions for you? You've covered almost all of them. I would say, though I didn't engage with them as fully as I would like to. Anytime there's Tina Fey adjacent comedies in the world, I'm pretty pleased. So Girls 5Eva and Mr. Mayor were both back out. Mr. Mayor's NBC. You can watch it on Peacock, Girls Five Eva, on Peacock. Just, you know, still unparalleled joke machines.

And I love having them available to me in my life. And then, you know, in some ways the elephant in the room is still Atlanta, season three, which I'm still wrestling with. We talked about it at length. I feel okay leaving it off of this list because I enjoy these other shows and their particular achievements more. But I'm still wrestling with it. You know, I'm still interested. When I read countertakes or pro takes or whatever and different reads of it from people with different perspectives than my own, I'm very interested. And in a way, leaving it off maybe is also a hedge like we were saying with Better Call Saul, where knowing that Atlanta is done after the art.

in the Cannes fourth season airs later this year. Hard not to think of these two seasons as conversations with each other. Sure. So we'll revisit because we're going to be watching and talking about the fourth season, and I'm very curious what season three looks like in relation to where the show ends up. Would you put Winning Time in honorable mentions? Oh my God. See, this is insane. I forgot about winning time. Winning time would be on my list.

Okay. Oh, my God. Yeah, winning time is on my list. I got to revisit. Okay. Well, we have... But isn't that weird? Like, Atlanta does make my list, but it's so crunchy. And I think about it, and I'm processing it and digesting it. Winning time would be on my list because I was so happy there was a new episode every week. I did like a text the other day where I was like, my way too early Western Conference power rankings for the NBA,

and I just like left the Warriors off. Like, I just forgot. This is, it's almost an exercise in futility at this point. I'm glad that we highlighted shows that we haven't talked as much about just now. But, oh, man, it's going to be a nightmare this. this winter, isn't it? Like, and it's going to be dope

when Sam comes through and is like, here are three shows that like, that like you guys didn't talk about it all, you know? That'll be great for us because the thing is it's always a very like free spirit. No, it's supportive. Yeah, it's very supportive. Andy, it was great to see you.

We'll be back on Monday night. Thanks to Devin for filling in producing us today. And we will talk to everybody after Saul on Monday. Have a great weekend, Perkinskins.