The Watch - Our Most Anticipated Shows for the Rest of 2022, Plus ‘Andor’ Episode 7

Episode Date: October 20, 2022

Chris and Andy talk about some of their most anticipated shows for the rest of 2022, including ‘The Crown’ Season 5 (1:00), ‘1899’ from the creators of ‘Dark’ (16:59), and the second season of ‘The White Lotus’ (30:14). Then, they break down the latest episode of ‘Andor’ and debate whether this is the most or least “Tony Gilroy” episode of the season so far (33:31). Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The time has come to get ready for the 2022 World Cup. And what better way to prepare than by revisiting the World Cup's most amazing goals? I'm Brian Phillips. I'm making a podcast about the history of the men's World Cup, told through the stories of 22 iconic goals. The show's called 22 Goals. It's out now on the Ringer Podcast Network, and we're having so much fun. Did you know about one and three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis,

which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you? Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away. Trimfaya, gusalcumab taken by injection, is a prescription medicine for adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, who may benefit from taking injections or pills or phototherapy, and for adults with active psoriotic arthritis. Serious allergic reactions and increased risk of infections and liver problems may occur. Before a treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis.

Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or if you need a vaccine. Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimphaya. Tap this ad to learn more about Trimphia, including important safety information. This episode is brought to you by Brooks. Running connects us to a rush of energy that flows through our world. The cheers of friends that unlock a new gear within us,

the intersection of interest that inspires a run crew, the support that gets you over the finish line. Connection is why we move forward and what inspires us to keep going. Let's run there. Learn more at brooksrunning.com. I need supports to have to clear the run. Stand up and walk now. Hello and welcome to The Watch.

My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at the ringer.com and joining me on the other line. A man who will soon be moving into fuel purity as a career choice. It's Andy Greenwald! There's a lot baked into that intro. There's levels to this. It's levels to that and or reference game. Hey, Andy, what's up, man?

It's Thursday. We're here with Kai McMullen. It's kind of a weird day out. Like, kind of like that late fall, desert, L.A. weather that I hate. But it's great to see you. You're like the sunshine on my face. There's a hollow wind. kind of blowing, rustling the palm trees

and it's whispering, Liz Truss. It's, Liz Truss. Dude, is that the lettuce? Who's saying that? How about those Brits, man? And shout out to my cousins,

not like in the sort of the cousins way, the way that the CIA refers to MI5, but like, you know, in my actual cousins way, they're dealing with a lot over there. It's funny. It's like I remember, you know what the feeling that this brings me

as we are on the cusp of the midterms and on the cusp of me having to talk about the House of the Dragon finale next week. It reminds me of a day in third grade. You don't have to talk about the House of the Dragon finale, right? I have. I have a lot of things to say. I think it was second or third grade,

and suddenly the teacher announced a pop quiz that I was absolutely not prepared for, like in no way prepared to answer it. And as she began handing out the papers, I was like, I'm doomed. And then my buddy, who shared like the desk cubicle area with me, just yacked all over the desks.

And I was like, oh, you see, I'm so sorry. But at the same time, you just bailed me out. And that's kind of what England is doing for us on the world stage. Yeah, that's true. It's just a pal. Thanks, pal. Do you think, was that kid having like an anxiety attack? Or did he have like 14 rolls of sweet tarts and a cheese steak before school started?

We'll never know. I mean, I have been around town pitching. episode origin story of his trauma that day that led to that, you know, and I think I've got some nice, I've got some interest, but you never, you never know, you never know someone else's journey. I just miss my Iron Chef days when I was, when I was a young boy with like this, the digestive powers of like a trash compactor and you could just eat like shrimp fried rice and a Reese's peanut butter cup for lunch. Remember that when we were like 13? You could just take things out? You know, between when school ended at 3.15 and dinner time, which I don't remember, I'm probably 6 o'clock, those were just prime Cheeto hours. You know what I mean? Like, and there were no portion sizes. There was just a bag of Cheetos until there wasn't. And that was just like a daily thing. Did you ever have a friend whose parents wouldn't let them have desserts? So they were like, I eat apple slices. Like, that's my treat. I did. This is like, I'm talking about, yeah, I did. No, I was like that.

I had a friend, though, whose parents were really watching their diet for, you know, health reasons. Sure. I don't know. And they were like, I was like, I remember I was like, what's your favorite dessert? It's classic kid conversation. And they were like, well, I don't really eat desserts. I like eating like apple slices, you know, maybe a bowl of berries. And I was just like, that fucking sucks.

How big of a veggie did you get back here? No, I never physically, you know, bullied anybody. But I was like very much like, you're missing out on the world. of eating like 14 blow pops before dinner. Well, I wasn't, this won't surprise anyone who listens to our Game of Thrones discussions. I'm not a dessert guy. Like, I don't really like sweets that much.

So I wasn't, but my experience was, I don't know if you had a friend like this, let me give you the other end of the friend's spectrum, where I would like, I would go to my friend's house and she would be like, would you like some crackers? And I'd be like, yes, I love Triscuits and Wheat Fins, the only crackers that exist. and she would bring out like marbled oat biscotti or something

because her parents had fancy taste. And she'd be like, would you like a soda? And I was like, yes, I haven't had my fifth Coca-Cola classic today. And she like brought out a small ovoid bottle of orangina. And I was like, I don't understand. This is minute made but worse. Like it was all like adult things. Yeah.

I didn't know what to do with that. Now I'm like, oh, that's classy. That's classy. But the flip side of this now, Chris, and this is early, we're going to talk about Andor. We're going to talk about TV. But eventually. But I feel like something that's suitable for Dattington Island someday is the fact that my children, my children, my children, they love.

I had to tell them about the crisis of Downing Street this morning. My sweet cavity riddled children. The way to school. Oh, they eat dessert to a worrying degree. But they like burgers and fries because they're human beings who are alive. But they have not, and I'm not saying this to be like I'm my fancy friend when I was a kid, but they haven't had McDonald's. Okay. Because they actually are like, oh, gross McDonald's.

Like they are snobs. Yeah. But instead. Morgan Spurlock got to them. What happens is that there's a number of places at here that make smash burgers and we don't need to like, maybe they'll start advertising when we need to shout them out. Yeah. Burgers never say die are right online to start advertising with the watch. Because that place is like bespoke fancy McDonald's.

It's essentially McDonald's. But I'm like, three hamburgers, please, good sir. And they're like, that will be $50. Yeah, yeah. And you're still in a coma afterwards because we are not, this is bringing a full circle, we are not those iron stomach lads of your. It's not the place's fault.

It's just like, I can't do it anymore. So Greenwald, I wanted to talk to you a little bit today about what lies ahead. Thank God. I'm so glad you wanted to talk to me today because I feel like, if you didn't. Well, we haven't done like a gut check on like what's like we haven't done like a seasonal preview in a minute. I think we did one for summer.

But I was kind of looking at I was looking at the trades. You know, I get up every morning and I spread the trades out as I drink my cafe OLA. And I just was like, you know, is this before, after you do laps in your pool? We should do a level setting about like what's coming out for the rest of year because we're almost to White Lotus season two. That's coming out in a couple weeks. And then there's a very busy November with like the crown, et cetera. So I wanted to kind of go through the shows for the rest of the year and see where you were at because you're a discerning viewer, you know? Can I also just say as part of this conversation, which you know what, Chris, I welcome this debate just as I do debates over UK fiscal policy. Do they have a fiscal policy?

I haven't noticed. I'm curious. You know, it is, it's real sketchboard, no bad ideas in a brainstorm time, which is just, that's the most freeing, that's the most freeing moment. No, just to say, we're going to talk about Andor episode seven, and Chris, Andor is so good. Uh-huh. And it did make me think, and I'm bringing this energy into our conversation, this has been a really good year for TV. Like, I'm watching Andor, and I'm like, I can't remember loving watching something

this much. And then I remember nine other things we've already seen this year, and succession hasn't come on yet. You know, like, this is a good year. Yeah. I mean, for a non-success year, I mean, that succession would only take up one of our spots. but like, I remember we did pods in the spring.

And I think for about two or three shows, I basically said, if something's better than this, we'll have had a really good year. And TV keeps surprising us. We said that about the bear. We said that about Barry. We were saying it about industry.

We own the city. Res dogs. We own the city. I mean, this has been awesome. Want to talk about what's coming out for the rest of the year? Yeah. Can we start with the crown?

Mm-hmm. The crown, as you know, I adore. I have completely uncomplicated, almost unintellectualized feelings about it. It is just a television show that I love to watch and chat about. And I think it is expertly well made. It may be the best made show on TV in a lot of ways when you get down to the department heads and stuff like that. And it's always felt like a momentous occasion, but I think it leaning fully into what looks like the end of Diana with a new performer playing Diana and Elizabeth Becky. New cast this year, Melda Staunton, Queen Elizabeth, Dominic West as Prince Charles,

Jonathan Price as Prince Philip. Oh gosh, like Leslie Manville is playing Margaret now, which I did not realize until I watched this trailer. Who's playing Martin Bashir? I don't know. I didn't check that. But it looks, I mean, for me, I was, when I was watching this trailer just came out and the cover of Bitter Sweet Symphony started, I was like, that's a little bit on the nose.

And when the drums kicked in, I was just Richard Ashcroft walking up and down my street. Pushing past your doubts and just... Chris, I want to watch the show now. But here's the thing. Can I make this pitch to you? You can. You can.

I know. I'm going to. Yeah, you don't need to know what happened on season three of the crowd. But I have to say, maybe this is... Look, we don't need to rehash this. I just feel increasingly that the device... between the FOMO, watch it when it drops, it's over by the weekend discourse that we attempt to white knuckle our way onto versus the deep Marianas trench of just stuff.

I don't really, I don't know which side of that divide to fall on, you know? Anecdotally in my life, people have started watching the Crown at various points over the last three years, and all of them uniformly are like, this is about as good as it gets. It's just as good as it gets. But as good as it gets maybe in a way that doesn't feel as urgent. as, you know, the, oh my God, what's this thing the bear? And we can burn through it and, you know, it's three hours and you're going to love it. Like, it's a different experience and an interface.

But all of this is to say, I think I've been foolish and not watching it for whatever reason. But this trailer is dynamite for any number of reasons. One, the song. Two, yeah, I think the relevancy and urgency of it, both because of, you know, the coverage of the Queen's death recently, but also, I mean, we lived through the Diana part. I mean, we were, we had our, we had all the verve stock that summer of 97. That's right. That was something that we remember. But also speaking of stock.

That's right. That album came out that year. Holy shit. Urban Hymns. Yeah. I feel like we, I feel like this podcast were angel investors in Elizabeth DeBecke LLC. Were we? Like I just feel like, I feel like we've been fans.

Like widows, the, what was the La Caree that she was in with Hittleston? Oh, night manager. Night manager. Yeah. I just think she's a phenomenal performer. And so that was really exciting. Really great intent. I also have to say, yeah, really good intent.

Exactly. I can't remember. Did you like Tenet or did you watch it on a plane and we're like, what the fuck is this? I want to unpack that. I did watch it on a plane as Christopher Nolan intended. I feel that my notes would have applied even if it had been an IMAX. Okay. But I thought she was awesome.

What was your main note? Well, I sat down expecting, you know, a no-holds-barred biopic about former CIA director, George Tenet. And I was like, finally a movie from me in my taste. Are we really reviewing 2021? Just having a conversation. I'm just asking. I didn't like it. It didn't hold together for me.

Okay. So you're in on the crown and you're going to watch it. Here's the other thing about the crown that I didn't realize from the opening moments of this trailer, which you guys got to watch this trailer. great trailer. I didn't realize that the House of Windsor suffered a doom of Valeria. The opening moments,

is that real? Queen Elizabeth is walking through a burned out castle? She's like, we lost so much. She goes to a lot of catastrophes throughout the crown. She's often, like,

I need to go and, like, be the sin-eater for whatever moment is happening. But that wasn't Buckingham Palace that got dragons. No, Buckingham Palace did not burn to the ground. It's fine, right? Yeah, unless it's a true sequence.

Can I ask you one other thing since I haven't seen the show but now really want to? what do you think changes in the TV landscape, if anything? And I'm hitting you with this cold, so I apologize. If the crown gets bought by HBO instead of Netflix, which anecdotally was in the mix. Today I was reading an interview with Sharon Horgan on Vulture about Bad Sisters,

which just ended, which I like quite a bit, even loved. And she was talking about that it was fun. Because I had watched most of bad sisters and screeners, not to humble brag, and didn't realize like it was still on. I was just like, holy shit. I was like, is bad sisters, like not over yet? Like, how many weeks has this been out? And I was like, oh, that's how it used to be. TV shows just used to be on for two and a half months, you know, like, or longer.

And she was talking about working on this thing for two years, two and a half years and being like the idea of working on something for two and a half years and having someone. speed through it in a weekend. It's like, fuck that. When I see the trailer for the crown, for as much as it feels like a huge event, it is a little bit of a shame that it won't be an event that lasts throughout the rest of the year. That it'll be an event that most people probably finish over the weekend when that drops in November. But do you think that in terms of the fortunes of the companies, I mean, look, I'm not suggesting Netflix's troubles such as they are we've discussed. I'm not saying this would have moved the needle in any direction, but I think it is worth saying that in, if the crown was coming to market as a new,

new pitch from Peter Morgan in 2023, I'm intentionally not saying 2022 because I don't know what HBO and HBO Max were looking for in that year, but theoretically, if they're back in business next year and buying things again more robustly, Netflix doesn't make a, I don't think Netflix bids on it. I think you're right. Although I would say, is the no-punintended crown jewel of Netflix at this point. Because one of the things that you'll notice is that there is only one other Netflix show

on this list of shows that I'm really excited for for the rest of the year. So do you think if the Crown is on HBO five years ago or whenever it debuts, do you think anything is different in the TV landscape or in the way this show? Would HBO have bought it?

I think so. I think they were in the mix for it. That's anecdotal, but I think they were, I think Netflix blew the other offers out of the water because that was still what they were. were doing that. Well, arguably, they're looking for a crown-esque experience with Gilded Age, which is Julian Fellows, not Peter Morgan, and is on HBO Max, and it was in that montage that Andy and I referenced on Monday about upcoming HBO shows. What do you, I mean, what do you

think? I guess I don't know if it changes anything. If Netflix doesn't get it, it almost doesn't make sense because it really is, to your point, I'll just say it again, it was one of the crown jewels, if not the crown jewel of the previous regime at Netflix, when they were, you know, making things like The Crown and Master of Nunn and even Ozark being like, we're making TV shows that can be in the conversation with other prestige shows and we're going to be there at the Emmys every year. And that just doesn't seem to be their MO anymore. So maybe it just would have hastened that change. I don't really know if things, I don't really know what needles that move otherwise.

And to your point, like people love the show. And so it would, I don't think, I don't think more people would necessarily discover it if it was coming out week to week. But maybe, maybe it would be more vociferous. You know, and if I'm, you know, I'm pretty much just a swing voter here. So maybe I would have started watching it earlier. Well, I hope you watch this season. I hope we get to chat about it. Here are some other shows that are coming out the next couple of months.

Inside Man, there's a BBC Netflix, Copro. It's a four-episode series. I mention it mostly because it's got David Tennant and Stanley Tucci, which is a pretty amazing one-two punch to throw at you. I think this is like just a quick, limited murder mystery. The Crown, as mentioned, 1899. So I guess there are a couple of Netflix things. 1899 is the one I wanted to touch on just because that's coming in November.

That is the new show from the creators of Dark, which is a show that you and I spent quite a bit of time talking about over the years. Love to. And is set on a steamer ship going across the Atlantic in the titular 1899 and looks losty, you know, looks paranormal. Is a member of the Dutton family on board? Dude, don't fucking, don't question the Dutton family. That guy's governor now.

I don't know if you saw the trailer. That's true. There's a real red wave in the governor's offices. That's another show you can just feel free to jump on in on. Thanks, buddy. Okay, keep going about 1899. 1899. No, I don't have, that's it.

I mean, 1899 is just, I'm so excited that these creators got to make another show for Netflix. And it'll be interesting. You know, you were talking about the end or effect on other shows or on Star Wars over the last couple of weeks. This is, I think, largely shot in, a volume type environment? This is a volume show. The thing, the thing about 1899

when we get to talk about it, and I think people should check for it because, as Chris said, like, Dark was incredible. Dark was, it's hard to imagine the, just everybody's doing time,

everybody's doing time travel. Perhaps the midterms might send us back into the 1840s. We don't know. But Dark just took everything and pushed the board up to 11. Like,

it thought everything through to such an insane German engineered way. Not necessarily a funny watch or a heartening watch. It is a dark, dark watch. But God, it was the brainpower behind it. It was just narratively so fascinating and engaging. And I loved watching all three seasons. And the first season is one of my favorite seasons of TV in the last, like, I don't know, five or six years. God, that was fun to have on the air. And so we will cover it on this creative merits because we really like and admire the people who made it. I think we will also have a conversation about the future of making television, because it is an

interesting play by Netflix because the whole thinking behind it was we can build a volume soundstage. And, you know, we say it a lot. The volume is the technology that allows Disney to do the Mandalorian the way it does where you are live streaming essentially the CGI worlds onto LED screens that you then just film with digital cameras. So it speeds up the post process and any, in one room can be almost anywhere. Right. To basically, it just takes a lot of boxes for the new model of Netflix. In the international show, the cast is intentionally drawn from all over the world. Yeah.

Shot in one cost-controlled. Yeah. Yes, one cost-controlled place, playing with genre, but all kind of more tightly controlled than in some ways it's the opposite of Andor, because Andor, they were like, here's tens of millions of dollars, and we're just going to build places and you're going to feel them. Yeah. So it'll be an interesting test. A couple of other shows that we're really looking forward to.

Personally, very curious about the English, which is the six-part Western on Amazon Prime from Hugo Blick. we really loved Honorable Woman. That's our guy. And also Shadowline. I was less of a huge fan of Black Earth Rising, but this is a six-part series set in the American West

starring Emily Blunt. And if it's Hugo Blick, I'm at least in for one. You know, like that's enough for me. And I think it's really interesting to see Emily Blunt, who is arguably one of the biggest movie stars in the world doing a limited series.

I also think this isn't a conversation for today, but just you mentioning the Honorable Woman really gets me thinking about, I mean, that's one of our favorite shows of the last, since we've been doing the podcast in the decade, one of our favorite viewing experiences. There are a lot of things like that, Jane Campion's Top of the Lake, like just one-offs that popped during, you know, a particularly gold rushy age of prestige TV that really stand up, I think.

But will we ever do, not we, but like the world do a rewatchables of prestige miniseries? Do you know what I mean? Like, is there a market? You get it a really interesting question there because I've often wondered whether or not we would be well served to do some more ranky kind of like go back and go through the last 10, 15 years and like organize shows in different ways and pick some of our favorites. And we should. We should do that. But just because of the proposition of, hey, if you want to talk about Friday night lights, technically speaking, there's like, you know, 60 hours of it for you to get. through if you want to talk about even honorable

woman, it's not the same as revisiting Michael Clayton. It's a little bit more laborious, but it's also, it's a different experience. I think I don't really have many dramas that I've rewatched. It's way more like, I can watch comedies until the sun goes down and then comes back up again.

But when it comes to like prestige dramas, I'd much rather watch SVU or community or something like that. When it comes to rewatchability. It's also about the episodic. nature. Like, you want something familiar. Like, watching Michael Clayton again is always a new experience and a rewarding experience,

but it's a familiar experience. And it's a limited experience. You know, it's a couple hours. Like the few times that I've been on the actual rewatchables, it's like, oh, we're doing the fugitive. Okay, Wednesday night, I will watch the film The Fugitive. That's the research process. That's two hours of time. I would be very curious about the Honorable Woman again. And I probably don't remember it very well. But do I have a spare? 10 hours, not at this point. The thing is with Honorable Woman, and a lot of prestige shows is they are very hooky, they are very twisty, they are very,

you know, there's a moment that happens that it's gut punch, and the Honorable Woman has several of those. I don't know that I need to see that. Like, I don't know if it would have the same dramatic effect to know what's going to happen to certain characters on that show and watch the whole thing again. Can I make a, can I make a

plea to our listeners? I'd be really curious about this, and maybe we can even officially start a threat on Facebook, or it could take the place of a threat on Facebook that says I'm saying that House of the Dragon has bad ratings, which I've never actually said that has very good ratings. Have you, a TV watcher enough, who's engaged enough to listen to this podcast, in the last year, watched and finished a limited series that was made in a year not 2022? Like, have you just fired up something that was extremely, you know, Mayor of Easttown,

for example, or Honorable Woman? You know what I mean? Something that you missed or something that you are going back to watch again. I feel like it's two separate questions. I actually was curious in the former. Because is there a secondary market for these shows? Because I think that there's like an almost algorithmic recommendation engine phenomenon online, whether it's like the TV versions of Letterbox that there are or just people, look at the Facebook group around the watch.

There's always like, hey, you guys missed, you may have missed this show two or three years ago, but check it out. So I do think that there is something of a culture of like finding undiscovered gems. are going back. Also, you get a lot of people who are like, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to watch the crown because the new season is coming out, you know? Well, for ongoings, that makes sense. There's always people starting for the first time or revisiting to get caught up for something. But I am particularly curious. Maybe we could make a list because I would look back on our top tens. And I'm sure between us, there's probably 10, 15, maybe even more, one and done's that we were

really moved by or excited about. And I don't know what happens to them. You know what I mean? I wonder if the streaming services and programmers know what happened to them, and maybe that's why they're making fewer of them these days. I wonder what that data would suggest. But I'm curious, because there's a lot of really good stuff, good filmmaking, good TV storytelling. Here's a couple more shows that are coming. Tulsa King, which is the Taylor, Sheridan, Terrence Winter, Sylvester Stallone,

shows set in modern times with Sylvester Stallone as a fish out of water gangster taking over Tulsa. And Andrea Savage, right? This is the thing. Have you seen this cast? It's so stacked. It's Andrew Savage, Dominic Lombardozi, Max Cassella,

Garrett Headland, and Dana Delaney. Shout out to China Beach. I do really, really love when showrunners get so big they can just cast from their dream rolodex.

You know what I mean? Like that, I'm not saying Andrew Savage is hurting for work. She's awesome. We love her. She came on one of our Live Thrones shows.

She's a great comedian and performer. I just don't know. Like, I don't feel like casting directors were calling up Sheridan and being like, you know who I like for this? But he liked her for it, which makes it so much more interesting. Sheridan verse is now becoming like the counterweight to MCU

where it just like sucks up all these actors. But fucking Helen Mirren and Harrison Ford are in 1932 or 29. But don't worry, Chris, Harrison Ford is also in the MCU now. I know, that's true. You can play both sides. Yellowstone, as I mentioned. As someone who has been a longtime fan of the military liaisons in the MCU, as evidenced by your passionate, passionate caretakes.

of Roady in the Ironman movies. I just feel like there's a weight off your shoulders now that you know that General Thunderbolt Ross's boots won't be on the shelf for too long. A couple more Yellowstone. I'm in. You know that. TFW.

Dutton is Gov is the only note I have here. I would love to go through a list of governors and try and figure out how many people I would rather have than John Dutton as governor. Number one, Carrie Lake. No. I mean, like, that's exactly what I mean. Would you rather have John Dutton as governor of Arizona than Carrie Lake?

I would rather have fictional John Dutton be multi-state gov, like a polyamorous governor that's just like, has a bed in multiple state houses than any of these absolute not jobs. Escape from New York, where he just runs all territory west of the river kind of thing. Yeah, that's fine with me. Fleischman in trouble. Interesting.

I feel about that. Did you read that book? I didn't read it. Did you read it? it just seems like kind of book you'd read. And its freshman is in trouble. And I didn't mean that to sound at all like because you're Jewish. I just mean...

Because this guy, Portnoy over here, is always complaining. Am I right? Okay. That's not what I'm doing. This seems like the kind of book you'd read. You just seem like the kind of person who likes a cerebral, urbane midlife crisis novel about middle-aged Jewish people. About the international banking industry.

No, I get it. I get it. So you say, use those adjectives again. Why do you? Were you not right? Urbane! I've heard some of these adjectives recently in commercials. Yeah.

I would like to read that book. And it's based on the Taffy, Brotus, or Echner novel that did really well. And it's, it's speaking of like, you know, high prestige swings, FX is always zagging when everyone else is ziggin. And it's Claire Dan season. She's in Fleischman and she's also in the Stephen Surberg. show that's coming on in this year. Lizzie Kaplan, Jesse Eisenberg, and also just like, it feels very 2017, where FX was just like, here's a hot book, we're going to make it, we're going to put the author in charge

or co-charge of it, we're going to cast the shit out of it, and we're just going to let it fly. I'm into it. This is a private personal matter, but Gangs of London season two is coming out in November. Did you watch the red band trailer for this? Thank you for asking me on the mic. Do you need to know the answer? did you? You seem like the kind of guy

just from looking at you, this seemed like the kind of guy who would watch that trailer. The thing is, I planned to, but I just cracked a cold orangina and I had a fresh bag of Italian Biscotti, and I just couldn't find the time. There's some really amazing kills in this. Let me just tell you that. Okay. Otherwise, I'm really looking forward to Slow Horses Season 2. What a remarkable planet we live on, where we get two seasons of Slow Horses in one year. And more to come, right?

They're just in perpetual motion over there. They've got a four-season deal. And it's basically each season is covering one of Mick Herron's books. I believe this season is Dead Lions, which is the second book, which is a really, really, really fun story about a retired British spy who dies and offsets or puts into motion essentially a Russian sleeper cell being activated. And it's, it rules. And the show somehow, like, knows what it is without like a,

It already knows what it is. It doesn't have to find its footing. And I really, really enjoy the model of, like, here's five episodes and here's another six episodes. And like this kind of perpetual. I love the fact that they're doing it this way. And my favorite money ball thing in television recently, and it's the equivalent of like the Mariners signing Julio Rodriguez to a 12-year deal

when he's like, can't drink legally, is when networks are so confident in what they've got. They're just like, can we give Gary Oldman the 10-year deal? Yeah, it's stable about the economy of audience. And the other version of this is FX renewing what we do in the shadows for three seasons. It's just, of course, take the drama out of the comedy situation there and just they can keep making them and people like them. And I understand why the economics or the audiences or the creatives doesn't allow that to happen more often. Yeah.

It has to line up. But it's just so nice to see when good things are rewarded with stability. And also, it just seems like there are several set pieces in the Slow Horses books, but a lot of it, is Gary Oldman smoking and farting. And a lot of it is like, I have to run across the street and like go into this Chinese restaurant to talk to somebody else.

It's not... Oh, but I forgot a brawley and I have to take this copy of the Daily Mail and hold it over my head. Exactly. Do you want to talk about Andor? You're done with your list?

What about Succession? Succession's not coming on. What about white loads? Succession's not coming on this year. It is. Succession? Isn't it? Yeah, it's not coming back this year.

I think it's coming. I thought it was coming back in the spring. I think it could be like February, March. I thought it was coming back this year because I thought they were trying to atone for their delay and they were trying to put it into more traditional TV production and I thought it was going to drop like after Thanksgiving. But HBO doesn't do that. HBO doesn't take the holiday slots the way Netflix sort of innovated. You're right. You're right. I was, that was optimistic thinking. White Lotus is the closest thing we have. That will be the soonest we get a new show that we're

really psyched for, which is, I think it's coming out next week. It's real soon. Yeah. And White Lotus Season 2 is set in Italy and stars Aubrey Plaza and Michael Imperioli, F. Murray, Abraham, Tom Hollander, which I'm very excited about seeing him in the White Lotus world. How are you feeling about that? Really interested.

I'm just very curious. You know, I think that, as we said throughout the first season, you know, both in the beginning when I was dubious and by the end, when it did it totally suck me in. It's just Mike White is such a particular voice, such a particular filmmaker. And so year to year, I'm curious what he is interested in. And I'm also curious what he as a pretty savvy veteran,

even though he kind of walks outside of the margins and works outside of the margins, what he felt was important to retain. And so, for example, in the trailer, the big trailer that dropped in the last few weeks, I was kind of surprised that there's a shot of a body bag. Now, that may be a misdirect. That may be a, you know, it's unrelated to the main plot in the way that there's a body at the beginning of season one, how that kind of was the spine of the first season.

Maybe it's just sort of remind people that was that type of show. But maybe that's the bit. What if the body in the body bag is Kendall Roy? Wow. Well, he's real in the industry universe. Yeah. So did you see that Harry Laudy

is going to be in the second Joker movie? I did not see that. Yeah. Has what? I don't know. You big Joker movie guy, Chris? You watched that on a plane? I watched it in a theater by myself.

It's just how God and Ron DeSantis wanted it. I'm not really a big Joker movie guy, but I also wasn't like this movie should not be allowed to come out. I want to make like, in our just absolute bullshit Hall of Fame, you know, where we usually have pages devoted to MCU directors talking about how they were really influenced by Antonioni in the Parallax view. One of my favorite headlines that I didn't click on from the last few months was Margot Rabe saluting and applauding Lady Gaga taking on.

on the mantle of Harley Quinn. Just like it is, it is, it is, it is Hamlet. You know what I mean? It's just like, can't wait to see what you do with it. Yeah. I love it. The playoffs are here and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul Predicts.

Follow all the playoff dishes, swishes, wishes, wishes, and misses. Predict the spread, the total points and even the game winner. Sign up for Fandual Predicts and predict it. from the couch. Offered by Fandual Prediction Markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant. 18 plus. Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our

consumer protection tools. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Ever have a plan come together out of nowhere and realize you're missing something? Like a last minute beach day, a spontaneous hike or an outdoor movie night you didn't plan for. That's when Prime's same

day delivery as you're back. Getting you exactly what you need, fast and reliable. so you can actually join the moment instead of watching from the sidelines. Same day delivery, it's on Prime. Visit Amazon.com slash Prime to find millions of items delivered fast, available in select areas.

Terms apply. This episode is brought to you by the active cash credit card from Wells Fargo. That's a mouthful, but that's because it packs a lot in. Earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases with it,

big or small. So whether it's buying tickets at the game or grabbing a coffee, it earns unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases. Say it with me. The Active Cash Credit Card from Wells Fargo, be a 2%er. Learn more at Wells Fargo.com forward slash active cash terms apply.

Kayak gets my flight, hotel, and rental car right. So I can tune out travel advice that's just plain wrong. Bro, Skycoin, way better than points. Never fly during a Scorpio full moon. Just tell the manager you'll sue. Instant room upgrade. Stop taking bad travel advice. Start comparing hundreds of sites with kayak

and get your trip right. Kayak, got that right. Let's talk about Andor. Yes. I'm going to be cold water guy. Wow. For the sake of the podcast. I thought this was a great episode of Andor.

Thanks. Yeah, I was going to say, let me applaud you the way Margot Robbie, you just took my role. No, I just want to, just to offset the usual stantification of this show. I just want to throw this out there. Okay.

That this one, was written by Stephen Schiff, who was the original person that they had sort of earmarked to do and or, at least according to the things that I have read. And then Tony Gowery placed him in 2020. In 2022, we obviously get this show.

There's going to be one more season after this. And as Tony told us, that's going into production soon. So that's nailed on. So this episode is written by Stephen Schiff. If you had to guess, is this a remnant episode from before is this a make good hey Stephen you accomplished screenwriter

who has written true crime starring Clint Eastwood and worked on the Americans? Why don't you take one, my guy? Or was this like Stephen Schiff had some stuff to do with this but Tony Gilroy essentially wrote it and we are seeing written by Stephen Schiff out of like arbitration reasons?

Thank you for asking this question. I wanted to talk about this. Let me begin by saying this process of writer credit, writer crediting is very opaque and even when it's not opaque, it's very twisty and often

contextual and specific to how certain shows are run, studios, showrunners, guilds, arbitrations, etc. So I do not have inside information and I don't presume to. But I will say this episode played to me

like raw, uncut Gilroy. This was bright pink Peruvian flake Tony Gilroy. Interesting. I thought the exact opposite. I thought this was the least Gilroyian of these six episodes. Oh, my guy. There were at least three prime tonism.

Can I adjust my statement? Yeah. The Cassian stuff didn't necessarily feel, especially at the end, didn't feel as Gilroy as the ISB stuff as. You know what I mean? Like, the end of the episode almost felt like, And now he's on another planet and he's with a woman and he's arrested. The ISB stuff was, I mean, that was like, that was like the ghost of Paul Sorvino taking the razor blade to slices of Tony Serebellum and serving them just lightly melted in the gravy.

It was so good. You can't cut it too thin. Yeah. So to your point, Chris, I think this is the sort of thing we can comment on because Tony has basically confirmed this, both to us and in other interviews he's done. Stephen Schiff was developing an and or TV show. For whatever reason, the broad outlines of it were shared with Tony. I don't know whether at this point Stephen had already moved on. But the work that had been done was shared with Tony,

who had previously said he wasn't going to work on this. This prompted him to write a manifesto in an email. And again, typical Tony fashion being like, I'm not going to do it, but here's what it could be. He then took over. From my understanding, Stephen Schiff and Tony. He stated enough that when apparently they asked Tony Gilroy what kind of show he would want to make if he could make anything, he said I would like to make Star Wars inherit the wind? Yes, or the winds of war.

Right? Like that's, so he, from my understanding, Stephen Schiff and Tony Gilroy never collaborated and never worked in the same office in any capacity. My guess is aspects of this episode, perhaps the beach stuff, perhaps the end of it, were left over in. in either in conception or execution, probably not execution, probably not script pages, but some shape, some plot point, some ideas were left over from the original Schiff version of the show. And I don't know whether it's as a make-good or whether it's some sort of contractual reason. Stephen Schiff is the credited writer. But this is always really tough because there are shows where the credited writer,

who is not the showrunner, wrote every word. That's absolutely possible. There are comedy shows where they openly say, we room-write all the jokes. Right, everybody's just throwing stuff up there. The one thing that people who don't work in the industry should know is that the scripts always go through somebody's typewriter last. And it's generally the showrunner who makes whatever changes he or she sees fit for consistency's sake. So anyway, all that being said, I found this to be, I love this show so much. And I love the show four episodes like this.

I'm trying my best to like counterbalance, but it's not like I have a single thing that I mean, like when I replay scenes in my head, when I replay the Tay and Mon Moth scene of them at the party and then the kind of circular conversation of going back like I think you'll find my politics you know too strong or something I when Marva came back on the screen when Fiona Shaw came back on the screen

I was like I feel like that was the perfect ending in three for this character but then it gives her like this whole new life of and the last shot of her with the blaster is so fucking Good. Because it takes the action. Last week was the action, and this week is the reaction.

But because it's so well written and crafted, the impact of the Aldani affair lands on the faces of characters we know. It's not abstract. It's not a shot of people in a town square, mostly filled out with CGI raising their fists. Like, we can do it. We can punch them back. It lands on Marva's face.

It has changed her. It's Fiona fucking Shaw in a Star Wars show, delivering this speech that this is one of the reasons why I thought it was pure Tony, because one of the things that he loves to do, and I love him for it, is he loves to redefine things with speeches. And it happened at least three times I wrote down two of them, because once I realized it was a pattern again in this episode. But in that scene, she says, there's the idea of fretting about you, worrying about you. And she says, that's not worry, that's love. That's just love, yeah. Earlier in the episode, someone says it's not a rock. I think it's not a robbery, it's an announcement.

Wow. You know, and in the first episode, we're not security, we're health care. I mean, this is what he does, right, with his words. He uses his keyboard like a pickpockets tools. So just like find little seams and things and open them up and reframe them. And it's just, it's so artful. Well, it's almost like he has a couple of characters who are the writers, right? Like Luth and Marva, Patrick Az are like, you know, they can just change the rules of the game in the moment.

you know when mad motha comes to luthin and she's like i basically like i didn't sign up for this and he's like this is exactly what you signed up for has has there ever been a has anyone ever built a weapon and didn't use it yeah i mean this stuff is so fireballs right it's so cool and it's so smart and you're marrying this with these performances you're marrying this with i mean we need to say the name luke hull and every podcast we do he's the production designer do the fucking train station where where the luthan's like assistant is just walking through the city and Khorasan, and then to go meet Vell, who was all, like, had it blow out, you know, and everything. And that shouldn't be as good as it is.

What about Sinta's speeder that she uncovers? Yeah. You can feel the rust in it. It's like a long-lower, yeah. Or how about Marva's coffee pot, which, again, like, has been built for her with enough time for Fiona Shaw to go on set and understand how to use it the same way I use my coffee maker, so it feels part of her life. or the sentencing scene, you know, at the end with those little punch cards.

And the box fan, yeah. The fucking Mario Kart beach level music when we get to another place. And I got so excited. Nicholas Prattel's score, I'm like, yeah, I want to listen to this music now. This is a place with culture and personality, even if we're just going straight to a penal colony maybe next. I don't know. I didn't see if there was a scene from the next. But it's so, I just find this to be so rich.

And I'm sorry, I got to be me. but when people make the argument that like House of the Dragon is interesting because it's about succession. I'm like, okay, that's like saying playoff baseball is interesting because men hit balls with sticks. Like this show has emotion and depth and richness that earn the larger architectural or thematic swings to me. It's about these characters. They're engaged. We're still with what's his name? his mom. And he's still tailoring his own outfits and seething with resentment. And something is coming.

You know, that's what you can use eight episodes or 12 episodes or 24 episodes for. You can seed something. You can let it simmer for a while before it boils. Are you feeling, do you find that it's easy to keep track of time on this show? I was, I think the thing that threw me off. Up until the very end I did. Well, because I think it what threw me off was there is a contemporary Star Wars thing where you can just put people from planet to planet and just be like, well, that was two hours or something like that. You know, like, he's back on Farrix, presumably the day after he's killed Skeen, right? Yeah, more or less, yeah, because it's just breaking news.

And that's only like a week after he left Ferricks? I guess we don't really know how- I'm curious because I thought he was gone for months, basically. No, I bet if we went back and ran the tank. I feel like Vell says to Luthan, like, we're about to do this in however much time. We only have so much time to do this. So I think that helps explain that. I think Gilworth actually said each three episodes is like a week in his life or something, right?

What about the, I think he did say something like that to us, yes. What about like Clem wasn't chosen at random? I mean, come on. What about the snow, people hang, like the flashbacks. There's just an artfulness to the way this show is edited to. Shout out to another Gilroy brother, John. Yeah. You know, who is in creative lockstep with his brothers.

Well, also that sick shot where it's like, it's Cassian's adult face, but the young boy's, like, body, it's great. It's great. There was a lot of Star Wars stuff in this episode. Do you know that? Yeah, and I liked that. My God, what's become of us? So I highly recommend people check out Ben Lindberg's recaps on The Ringer because he beautifully writes about this show and is clearly as emotionally invested in it as we are, but also is like, that's the dude who tells Tarkin to like do this, you know, and there's some, there's some Easter eggs throughout. this episode. Can we just like look if you just took that ISB scene though, right? And then what? The shorting of the health care stock

in the second episode of industry scene. Yeah. I wouldn't I know I already mentioned my coffee maker but I would throw it out the window if I just had those scenes available to me all the time. You mean the one where the guy is like doing his presentation on how DEDRA is out of line and then Patrick Az is like actually DEDRA's running shit now?

Yes. I mean, it's theater, and it's framed in this room, and it's shot so beautifully, and the faces are so, every face in that room was chosen to be a face, you know, and it's just, I guess what I would say is, what's thrilling to me about the show is, don't tell me there was an action in this episode. Watch that scene. Watch that scene. And then watch the Obi-Wan Darth Vader lightsaber fight in the dark on a planet we don't

care about at the end of Obi-1. And I'm sorry, guys, I'm sorry, my car broke down this morning. I'm doing the thing where I'm punching down. don't need to do that. Andor is good no matter what else is on TV, but it was striking. I do think Ben brought up this interesting point in his piece, which is he was essentially like,

I hope that I'm able to like watch Star Wars in the same way after Andor because I'm worried I won't. You know, that anything that essentially approaches these stories with anything less than this level of care, intellectual curiosity, emotional depth, structural flair is going to be hard to stomach, you know?

But here's the thing. Here's my answer to that. This show is making the case for TV. It's making a case for the medium. Because a Star Wars movie, if done well, should do what a new hope did. Or Rogue One, you know, if we want to make it more contemporary. Like, it should fill you with an expansiveness and a sense of wonder, right? in a compact way that just picks you up, carries you into hyperspace,

and brings you back again in two hours. I think that his point is really well made, but because it's coming from a position, it's the opposite of poverty. It's coming from a place of richness. That he has that movie experience. And now what? You can have this to you.

And this was always the way this was supposed to work, I think, until a lot of the wires got crossed. Do you feel like structurally as an episode that most contemporary TV viewers watching this, won't find the ending of this episode abrupt or won't like I mean I'm trying to I'm trying to get myself outside of my own like complete Gilroy-pilled way of watching this

and that's why I was like was this episode like was episode as good as the other ones because like and maybe this was sort of like a patch up job of like an older script that meant transition to what I would imagine is now going to be a jailbreak arc like I don't know like I think it's interesting we were talking about

the Netflix stuff before, I wonder what the reaction to the end of this episode would be, because I think that people are conditioned to episodes ending with, not a shrug, but with just sort of an ellipses, you know, because this felt like a Netflix ending to me. This felt like the end of an episode for a streaming show.

This felt, like, I think most episodes of TV when I watch, like, especially prestige ones, feel more like Mad Men, where it's like 42 minutes of beautifully, written but relatively stayed drama and then like the last 10 minutes like something amazing happens and you're like I can't wait to see the next one but this one didn't do that no that's I'm saying like this one I felt like even though he's put in prison I felt like it was kind of like this almost rush at the end but that's what I mean I feel like I remember watching early seasons of

House of Cards and being like I don't know what to do with this because I've I've been reviewing TV episodes and these episodes really don't care these are chapters yeah yeah it'll the next one just starts. And so if you took House of Cards episode 107, I don't know which one that was, but just any of them out of context and watch the last few seconds of it, I don't think it ended with anything particularly jolting or jarring necessarily. Maybe I'm misremembering this. Because I think, I hear your point. I agree with you. But I always thought because if it was going to be weekly, it would need to end with either something, just end with something bigger to sustain your interest for longer. Right. And this is, this feels like a streaming slow drift ending,

but it is being, you know, doled out weekly. Well, I can't wait for next week. But I am curious what people are feeling. I just, I continue to say it. Like, I just think this show is a win across the board and will continue to be one, especially when it's complete and just viewable for future generations or people who haven't come around to it yet and maybe who will prefer not having this to make the decisions we're talking about week to week.

But I watch this and I'm so, I'm just, I'm not on a second screen. I am just so only in the screen. How could you be? It's so dense. There's so much information being thrown at you. Like I still like, even as somebody who's essentially is watching this as carefully as possible, the conversation between Vell and Luthyn's shopkeeper person, I got a little confused about like, well, who wanted the new person?

And like, they were essentially having this conversation about like when you're in this sort of espionage rebellion business. You know, there are sort of expectations about like. Like, you know, you're maybe not going to see the people anymore. And they seem to be talking about a new person that was brought in. And I couldn't tell if that was Cassian or if that was skiing. I had to watch that scene twice. Yeah.

I didn't know who. I didn't know who was at first. Oh, yeah. Right. In the hood. But who were they talking about? I thought they were talking about him. That's what I thought.

Okay. Maybe I'll watch it again. Kai, just keep rolling. I'm going to go quiet. I'm going to go dark on my mic. Kai, keep rolling. He's going to watch four seasons of the Crown. And then we'll be back in 40 hours.

I turn the TikTok camera on. I'm going to watch. TV. Kyle? Greenwald is amazing that we get to do this twice a week. Blessings upon blessings. It really, you know, sometimes it really is amazing. I agree. I'll see you for the Fleischman is in trouble book club tonight. We were produced by Kyya McMullen as usual. We will be back on Monday. This is how I'm going to control the media, Chris. You know what. All Fleischmen all the time. House of the Dragon finale and Atlanta probably. AKA Monday's pod, Greenwald is in trouble. What if we just came through

and we just did 120 minutes on tar on Monday? Chris, this is my bit. Before you were like, let's talk about all the TV shows for the rest of the year. I was like, Chris,

this disrupts my plan to just make this a tar pod. But you, have you seen tar? The LeBreya tarpods. Have I seen it? No. No.

That would be an essential component of doing a podcast. You would think, but I might surprise you. We'll see you guys on Monday. Thanks for listening. listening.