The Watch - Our Most Anticipated Shows of 2023. Plus, Is the Sheridan-Verse Slipping?

Episode Date: December 20, 2022

Chris and Andy talk about the premiere of the new Taylor Sheridan show ‘1923,’ starring Harrison Ford and Helen Mirren, and whether the quality of his shows is slipping (1:00). Then they talk about the latest episode of ‘Fleishman Is in Trouble’ (24:24) before talking about some of their most anticipated shows for 2023, including the ‘Justified’ reboot and ‘Daisy Jones and the Six’ (40:37). Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Matt Bellany, founding partner of Puck News, and I'm covering the inside conversation about money and power in Hollywood. With my new show, The Town, I'm going to take you inside Hollywood with exclusive insight on what people in show business are actually talking about. Multiple times a week, I'll talk to some of the smartest people I know, journalists, insiders, all of whom can break down the hottest topics in entertainment to tell you what's really going on. Listen now. Did you know about one and three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you? Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away.

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Connection is why we move forward and what inspires us to keep going. Let's run there. Learn more at brooksrunning.com. I need supports to have to clear the run. Stand up and walk now. Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at the ringer.com.

And joining me on the other line, the newest member of the Dutton family. It's Andy Greenwald. Chris, what would they do to me? I mean, I know there's families with black sheep, but I would not... I don't think I'm a functioning sheep. You know what I mean?

I can't wait to talk to you about this, because I have to tell you that I've spent most of my time in Philadelphia, which is all of 24 hours. Thinking about the Fleischman is in trouble 1923 franchise that you and I could write together where you play Toby Fleischman out west and it's you and James Badge, Daly and Harrison Ford, and Helen Mirren. By the way, we're going to be talking about 1923

and Fletchman is in trouble in this episode. And we're also going to be talking about the most anticipated shows of 2003, not 1923. But Andy, like, can you just imagine a guy just rolling through the ranch and just being like, what about me? I mean, also, like, In this version, is he like an ovine...

I just want to have interface with my patients. Yeah. But he's just like a large animal vet, you know? But he's really consumed with social mores. I mean, this is really... I need a moment. How would Toby Fleischman react to a swarm of locusts attacking the cattle? I mean, well, I do think he likes biblical metaphor.

In a recent episode, he did go to a science exhibition on the darkest black imaginable, right? and went into the void, so to speak. So I think he appreciates a heavy-handed metaphor. So he probably enjoys the television of Taylor Sheridan as a fan. I'm thrown because, you know, I know we planned this podcast and the topics on it, because if there's one thing that I contribute to this podcast, it's advanced planning. But until you set it out loud, I don't think I've realized that this is the starkest red state, blue state divide we've ever done on this podcast.

We honestly do reach across the aisle on this podcast. This is, this, this podcast is John Boehner weeping at the unveiling of Nancy Pelosi's portrait last week. You know what I mean? Like this really is shocking. It's shocking to me. And I hope that America can, I hope that the fabric of the nation can be stitched together. It's like Charles S. Dutton, like just like given that like way to go at the end of Rudy. But instead of Charles S. Dutton, it's Carrie Lake.

And she's like giving it to Mark Kelly on his election. You know what I'm saying? Are you recording live from Maricopa County again? Like, I don't think people realize how deep this goes with you. It's just a bit that I can't tell where the end of it is. Just like American democracy. Before I got into the weeds here with these shows, one of which we've been talking about intermittently throughout the season.

And the other, a new show from Taylor Sheridan, which is whether you like it or not a big deal on TV. He now has like 1,200 of them. I just wanted to ask you, have you gotten any interesting feedback to our episode on Thursday where I feel like we unintentionally had our hair on fire

about the state of streaming TV? But I was curious whether or not anybody from maybe, I guess, in the industry or anyone had listened and hit you up and been like right on, brother, or it's actually not that deep. Shows get canceled all the time and Henry Cavill didn't have a contract.

Well, first of all, Let's hold space for Henry Cavill. Big Hank. Hammer and Hank. Big bank Hank, more like. The real hammering Hank. No, I heard he didn't have a deal. I heard it was just like yaddy yotted.

You mean to be Superman? Yeah. I heard he had. It was like, yo, we're going to do this for sure. Go ahead and post that to the gram. Yeah, no, that was like when I was going to do rewatchables last month, right? It was just like I announced to my Twitter. I'm back on Twitter to let everyone know.

No, first of all, I just want to be like, that guy just stays shifting franchises. You know what I mean? Like, he just, he's like, don't worry. I'll do the one based on tiny action figures of orcs because that's where my heart has always lived. The fact that one of the takeaways from the DC story, which we're not doing again, I promise, but one of the takeaways seems to be that we're all pawns and Dwayne Johnson's great game. Yeah. Is wild to me.

Well, he tried to have, like, he tried to do a coup. He tried to stop the steel over at DC and just be like, Black Adam is now the center of the DCU. I got Big Bank Hank in the end of this movie, and we're going to go forward with Black Adam versus Superman. I don't want to be facile here, but The Rock and Roger Stone, you know, there's some overlap there. It's right. I'm just saying. But to your point about the industry, I would actually say that the relative, I mean, this wasn't Charles, S. Dutton nodding his head, but what I seem to get from people that I speak to was just nodding.

Like, yeah, that's what's going on here. Now, I do think it's always important to say this, and I think sometimes we do and sometimes we forget to. A lot of this is inside the clubhouse stuff right now. This is not affecting the on-field product, so to speak, yet. Right. And hopefully it won't. We'll talk about that when we get to our 2023 anticipated shows. Because I went through the list. I went through, I did my deep, deep dive research here to put together this list for us. And I have to say, I'm looking forward to the next year. You know what I mean? Maybe this is one of those things where the ripple effect will be felt until 24. I think that's very possible. But I also, I do think you're asking the right question, which is to say that when we get stuff wrong, let me rephrase

that. If we ever got anything wrong, which, you know, come on, our industry umbuds people often flag it for us, or at least give us context. And, uh, no, nothing. nothing. Now, as I've noted, as I've noted, I'm no longer on social media. I've also disabled my email and I won't let you text me anymore. So all that may be affecting things. You're on, but yesterday was Sunday, so I figured you were on Twitter all day because it was an Eagles day.

Yeah, but it wasn't a good Eagles day, so I didn't. But thank you for checking in. All right, Andy, I have intermittently over the course of the last couple of years asked you to come out to the ranch with me. It's really true. what Taylor's got cooking over the open fire. What he's grilling up. I think we did, you did all of one episode

of Mayor of Kingston? I did. I'm still not okay, but go on. You didn't get to the episode where Jeremy Renner conducts basically a vigilante killing of a guy who blew up a child in a meth explosion, right? No, I'd remember it. Can I, can I? I don't want to interrupt your bit, but like, when you map out your week, CR's week of media,

you know, maybe you have to watch something for rewatchables, you like to watch some sporting events. Like, do you savor the Sheridan Jules? Are you like, I'm in the mood? I don't mean like, do you enjoy it? But I mean, with mayor of Kingsdown, are you like, I've got a nice hour carved out to watch Jeremy Renner vigilante shit? Like, you're in the right headspace for it.

The problem with it, the problem with that show, and there's a few shows like it every year, is that I'm alone. Like, no one wants to watch it with me. No one really wants to talk about. it with me. I'm so sorry. Everybody thinks it's weird that I'm so into it, especially Mayor of Kingston. I think people were like, are you okay? Do you want to talk to a Freudian therapist or something? And I got to say, so for my guy Taylor, who I obviously have, it's a little bit of a bit, but it's mostly like just, I would say 82% like pure admiration for his project, for his prolific

output. And honestly, for his style of dialogue, his commitment to a, kind of like, kind of bare-knuckled tough guy storytelling that I have a soft spot for. You know, I'm on board. But over the course of the last season of Yellowstone is the one that aired and then the one that's currently airing,

I would say Tulsa King. Yep. And now in 1923, I think my guy might need to take a playoff. Like, I think that this is now, we were just talking about like, oh, are we going to start seeing the downstream effects of the boardroom convulsions

hitting actual television screens. I think that we're kind of seeing the effects of Taylor Sheridan maybe just having too much on his plate. There was something really breathtaking about Yellowstone Season 1. I would even say, personally, for me, 1873, the sort of previous installment

of the Dutton saga, and Mayor of Kingston season 1, where I was like, this guy is just like a pretty unique voice in TV and there are elements of this to feel like a CBS procedural, but there are also elements of it that feel like Sicario.

You know, like, I was, I was really fired up about it. 1923, I like, everything about it is, is like ready made for me to love. It's set during prohibition or right, during the sort of lead up to prohibition, I guess, although everything in Montana seems to be a little bit tweaked in terms of its relationship to the rest of the nation. Uh, post-war story. It stars Harrison Ford and Helen Mirren as Duttons. James Badgedale specifically is the child of Tim McGraw and Faith Hill's

characters on 1873. And it's about this sort of transition from the old west into modernity and into more industrialized society. But it's also about the minutia of like where sheep's graze versus where cattle graze. And it's like got all this stuff that I would ordinarily like. And in any other moment, I just feel like Harrison Ford and Helen Mirren being on a television show would just be like absolutely like stop what you're doing and check this out news. But there's something about.

this show that feels like a little undercooked for me. I'm going to stick with it. But between the, it's yet another Taylor Sheridan show that has a show inside a show. So we can get to that. But there is an entire plot in Nairobi with a character who I imagine is going to come back to Montana

at some point and is kind of like the Casey Dutton character on Yellowstone. And then it seems a little caught in this is nether region between TV and film visually and and also in terms of its pacing. That I I haven't quite figured it out.

It's only been one episode. I'm definitely going to give it a chance, but I was curious what you thought because I know that you are already skeptical going into the project. First of all, we got to stop with the year titles. Like, we just got to,

we got to stop with this. As we were trying to plan this, I kept saying like, well, there's 1923, and you kept thinking I was referring to 1899. Yeah, I was like, I'm getting there.

I still think they're on a boat, though, but I'm getting there. I promise, I'm going to get to it. What was the other one? What was the one with Sam Elliott and Tim McGraw? 18 what?

Andy, late breaking news, I've been informed by the Taylor Sheridan ombudsman that it's actually 1883, not 1873. But I would be, I'm forgiving. I'm forgiving myself. I'm showing myself grace. Yeah. By saying there's a lot of shows with years as the title. I don't think you can be forgiven. I think you must go on a solo odyssey into the African Savannah and hunt the game until you look into the mouth of danger and understand what you've done. Which, by the way, might be how you're spending Christmas. We haven't actually discussed your holiday plans. So what I wanted, I want to begin my takeaway, again, one episode of this with 1883, which I do think I was not fully fair to because I didn't really understand it. And I did watch more than one episode of that show eventually, but you just touched on it and what you were saying. It is a very unusual mix of the most traditional and stayed CBS television show making with a type of cinematic line.

that Taylor Sheridan is very good at and that I think I'm much more responsive to when I understand the delivery system better. And the thing about 1883 that I didn't understand is that it's still him and it didn't give a fuck, right? Like it was dark. And I misunderstood it because of the CBSC aspects of it, that it was just sort of patting itself on the back for being you know, a nice family that did good. You know, that wasn't what that show was. And Even if I didn't enjoy it, I really respected it. Did you think that that was what the Dutton family, Christ said? Yeah.

Nice family does good. Yeah. But it's in Latin, so I didn't read it, you know, immediately. This show did make me be like, can we do a wellness check to the ranch? Like, can we just run a couple people over there, just make sure everybody's doing okay? Yeah. because the sadistic nuns and priests beating each other for like one minute. And then it's like, wow.

And then they go to another room to beat on each other some more. It's like, oh, wow. You know, I get it. And then they keep beating on each other. And I'm like, okay, well, you know, it's good that this stuff gets worked through. But I don't necessarily want to be in the crisis suite when we're doing it. But beyond that, what struck me, and it's strange, was that it just felt. felt very pro forma.

And some of that I do think comes from Harrison Ford, which, you know, one of the great movie stars of our time, but does give off a very, very, very distinct vibe of what the fuck am I doing here and why am I doing this year? And that's partly the character, but he's, you know... It's tough when you compare it to Sam Elliott's performance in 1883, though, which I thought was quite beautiful and quite powerful and quite lived in and an emotion. I wonder, I really don't mean this in any other, just, I'm just saying this to say it. Yeah.

I wonder if Harrison Ford's like four years too late for this role. I mean, he's an 80-year-old man, and so he can make whatever choices he wants. I mean, he could even be elected president, from what I understand, it's fine. Age is nothing but a number these days. But I do have a thing with him, and I never want to impugn a legend whose work I love and means an enormous amount to me. But if you notice that, like, just he's one of those actors who, seems to be less and less interested in being in being in the joke the older he gets.

And to me, his greatest performances, I mean, to me, like I'm unique in being like Han Solo and Indiana Jones are cool. What makes those characters great is the smirk, right? Like, yeah, they don't want to be there, but they're smirking and they're there and they're heroic despite themselves. And when he takes more serious roles, he sometimes just zags very much in the other direction. That's an actorly choice. Many actors do it.

but it was a little bit tough to swallow, especially when you compare him with his co-star here, who I think Helen Mirren, who I think expressly was like, I really want to shoot people in the face of the shotgun and do a banshee scream to the heavens. She seems to understand the potential of what she's in and be thrilled about it in a different, different way.

And I guess my main takeaway from this episode, which, you know, I'm not a big grazing rights guy, never have been, very honest about that. You know, I used to learn. You haven't. You're still doing a lot of research when it comes down to sheep versus cattle. It's also that I used to, I feel like I knew more about land leases back when I was on Twitter, you know, but I've just sort of given that up. You know, I don't really follow those accounts anymore. But her show is the one that I would like to watch. And she seems to thus far to be the only one who's really in that show. And I, but again, I feel strange. I'm very interested to hear that you were a little bit reserved about your feelings, too. Because I can't tell if it's. a feature or a bug with this guy. There was something really like when when,

when Yellowstone premiered and when Yellowstone Stone was really cranking in the first two seasons, there was something that felt huge about it, not only in terms of its scope like cinematically, but in terms of, you know, the kind of mythical Steinbeckian vibe of that family. Yeah.

And to me, getting so into the minutia of grazing rights, even though I know in the Yellowstone pilot, they're like, it's all, everything that happens is about a, group of stolen horses that they're or cattle that they're arguing about

whether or not it belongs to one party or another. I understand that this has always been the sort of bread and butter of Yellowstone, but it almost felt like we were getting jumped into the third episode here. Like there wasn't a lot of like set up. And I think possibly that's because now Sheridan with this saga

has developed like a shorthand. Like the patriarch is going to be gruff but always has like a heart of gold. The matriarch is going to be the thing that really holds things together. There's going to be one son who's the sort of prodigal outcast and another who's not ready for prime time. And then there's going to be this group of people on the periphery who are the antagonists like Braun from Game of Thrones or whatever that are going to be kind of...

Oh, it's very happy to see, by the way, Jerome. The amount of accent going on in this is dynamite. You know, just the amount of Scottish and Irish actions being thrown really, really good. Not since gangs of New York. Have I been this overwhelmed? I also want to say, uh, the great Brian Garrity's on this show. He is. My favorite cowboy. A guy named Zane. He's,

not to put too fine a point on it. He's smiling too, though. You know, and he's happy to be there. I love seeing him and makes me want to watch more. Can you, so you're legally allowed to be on Big Sky and 1923? Well, if they're set in, if they're in different decades.

Yeah. The Big Sky prequel series, I don't think he could be a part of it. Right. That's 1870, 72, I believe, as you said. It's interesting. I think it's just worth noting. that one, this has come up a lot in different contexts.

And I feel like it's important to shine a light on it and be like, this might not speak for people or the industry at large. But when I hear that there are going to be more explorations of the blank universe or prequels, what excites me about that is, oh, okay, well, then maybe one of these stories is going to be a, you know, John Houston said in Africa story. and the other's going to be a noir, and the other's going to be a war movie, and we're going to do genre to genre stuff

and just use the larger story to sort of Trojan horse in different types of shows, which is the Andor corollary, right? Yeah. That's one of the reasons why we love Andor, and we were asking for that in Star Wars for over a decade.

We got it. We loved it. Our show of the year. That doesn't necessarily track with the bottom lines of large multinational corporations or potentially the fandom of a show, right?

And also, it's worth noting the particular need that these Yellowstone prequels are filling, which is, I take nothing away from Taylor Sheridan's Creative Enterprise when I say, Paramount fucked up and sold the rights to Yellowstone to Peacock.

They can't show their flagship show on their streaming service. So they were like, Taylor, here's a blank check, give us more of that. Yeah. So we can have that. And that is what they're getting.

So even if he was like, I want to do this entire season, like the African queen, that's not what it's going to be, right? I mean, right now, Right now he's in his own. So I'm going to spoil a couple of Taylor Sheridan universe things for people. Okay.

I appreciate that. I've already mentioned the meth-mef dealing vigilante action in Mayor of Kingsdown. So did you know that until the finale of 1883, I, along with millions of others, was under the impression that it was an ongoing series? I was under the same impression. And spoiler. It's not. Sam Elliott gets to the coast of Oregon and takes his own life.

and the narrator of the show passes away. And as we are introduced, let it be known very early in 1923, that Tim McGraw's character dies, and that then Faith Hill's character dies in a snowdrift. Yeah. So that was a real... Just buried that show. That seems vindictive.

We are not getting 1885. But did you also know, like, I think I've mentioned this, on Yellowstone last season, I would say cumulatively three episodes of the season was spent with a tertiary character working on a different ranch in Texas. Is a potential spinoff, right? Like, is a backdoor...

You're like, oh, we need... Taylor, we need you to do this. I can't tell if this is like the rehearsal. And he's just like, I've, I've like... I'm basically doing cowboy Jean Dealman out in the West where we're just going to show life. Or if he's like, I actually don't have any more story. So I need Jimmy to go to the Four Sixes ranch for three episodes to learn

what it means to be a man. My sense of this, and I say this with... Oh, after nearly being paralyzed while being a rodeo. I say this with real respect. This whole enterprise, and I'm barely, barely cognizant of it, as you've alluded to correctly. But it does remind me of the episode of Atlanta this season, when Van Wander's, you know, brings Lottie to the soundstages of a Tyler Perry-type mogul. And it's just like Willy Wonka with Willy Wonka's TV factory, where, a guy is just writing on a typewriter piano

and casting people that he sees in his security monitors and changing everything. I mean, this is what it looks like when one autore is fully empowered and that makes it interesting no matter what. But I do think that leads, that does lend to this feeling that I get from the stuff, which is like the ground feels like it's shifting underneath me.

I don't get it. And similarly, to your point, Harrison Ford and Helen Mirren on a TV show is insane. Helen Mirren and Harrison Ford in a Western for Paramount Plus dropping a week before Christmas is a lunacy. But they are not this show. They are folded in to the Taylor Sheridan Project, the larger project. And I guess that brings me full circle to say like it really does feel.

And feel is a really lousy word to use in this type of analysis, if that's what it is. that's off of one episode, because that's all that was made available, and now that's all that's aired. But it really does feel like Helen Mirren was like, awesome. That'll be a really fun way to spend six weeks. I love it. And, you know, Harrison Ford, we'll see. But he's never been, like, famously an ensemble player.

I mean, remember the one time, remember, like, Steven Soderberg was like, I've just won Oscars. Please come be in traffic because you are a god. And he was like, I don't do things where I'm not the star. Yeah, but now he's, like, kind of doing the victory lap of his career in a lot of ways. I mean, he kind of got through that. right so he did Star Wars he did Blade Runner and now he's doing Indiana

Jones but now he's like I'm just on TV like he's Alan Arkin so he's in this show and he's on the upcoming Jason Segal show on Apple TV called Shraint it's just that's Harrison Ford it is him now yeah also he you know he's one of those actors

do you remember this was a thing maybe it's coming back into fashion thanks to Taylor Sheridan but I remember being a kid my mom would get People magazine and there would always be articles about movie stars and the movie stars then where Bruce Willis and Harrison Ford. And Bruce Willis was like, I bought a town in Montana and live here now. And Harrison Ford lives in Wyoming. Yeah. But it just flies his private plane, Southern California, and most of the time

lands it here as well. But like, people who love this shit want to do it as their job. So it's like Tommy Lee Jones being in Lonesome Dove, making fun of everyone else for not knowing how to ride horses. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So I feel like this wasn't the hardest sell for Harrison, because first of all, he's probably getting a million dollars an episode. And second of all, he gets to ride horses and be not too far from where he actually wants to be. So I don't mean to mind read that he doesn't want to be there, but his his performance so far is pretty crusty. I know where you want to be. Tell me. The Upper East Side of Manhattan. Look, I feel really just a bunch of Jews trying to work it out, man. We're just trying to figure it out. Now, was this episode of the podcast delayed because I'm on

major Latka duty today and was a little late boiling the potatoes? No pun intended? Yes. But I feel little vulnerable here as we pivot. Do you feel seen by Fleischman is in trouble? At times, and then sometimes I feel targeted. Yeah. Like, I feel, I feel a little uncomfortable. You're like, the only person who's good here is Josh Radner. Josh Radner is he's a lawyer, and he's solid. So we're going to talk about Fleischman is in trouble through episode six, which is what is currently up on the Hulu network. And that's six through six of eight, right? That's correct. Yeah, and so spoilers going forward as we, end episode six, just to give you a sense of where we're at.

This is a very, I would say Libby heavy, but there's a lot of... Libby-centric, yeah. A lot of Lizzie Kaplan. And it ends with her character, Libby Slater, finding Claire Deans' character, Rachel Fleischman, sitting on a park bench in Manhattan. She has been missing. There have been some clues as to what she's been up to.

There's been some hints of what she's been up to. People have seen her in parks resting. But nobody knows where she is. this is all happening, Toby has been kind of going on this summer of self-discovery. He's been going on dates. He's been reconnecting with his college friends. He's been trying to single parent. And we kind of are now getting a little bit more of a fleshed-out view of, I guess, his world, but also more his friends and the way his friends see him. Yes. So the last two episodes, one's called Vanta Black. And then what's the six one called? That's something about enjoying ourselves.

Or this is how I, this is how I do enjoyment. This is how I do enjoyment. That's a great title for 1875. 1875? I don't know if we made enough out of the Dutton, Africa plot, but let's keep going. Well. And that dude talking about hunting leopards and once it gets a taste of man, man is all he wants. Do you think that's, this is my enjoyment. It's the name of the episode.

I mean, I don't know what. I wish I had like a film of you sitting at a coffee shop in Silver Lake being like exterior hunter. turns to his assistant and says. You joke, but this is, if I were to write a scene of big game hunting on the Velt, like that, it would begin the way this episode began with all of my deep knowledge of the mighty cats. Like, I just want to make eye contact and then shoot it in the face and then it dies on top

of you. It's pretty good. It's pretty good. I mean, again, like, I could be like, I don't know if I, I'm sorry, we're still talking about the other show. That tells you something. I just did a whole fucking synopsis. But it is kind of wild for me to sit here in my ivory tower,

the upper east side of Echo Park and be like... Your blue check-shaped couch. Here are the problems with this show. And yet it begins with Helen Mirren shooting a guy in the face. And then immediately followed another guy shooting a lion in the heart. And the lion dies on him. If you described this to me, I would be like, thank you. And then I'd be like, quick follow up.

I said no mushroom tea, please, but I appreciate your generosity. So, okay, there's something to be said for it. This is my enjoyment. This is what we're talking about? Okay. Fleischman. Let's go. Chris, go.

And what do you think of, what do you think of as a show kind of, because one of the criticism of the show had been, does it need to be this long? As not a, I did not read this book. I am enjoying this show very much. It doesn't feel too long to me. I also don't feel like they're overdoing it with the mystery of the show. I like that there is basically like this suggestion that Rachel is just doing a very good job avoiding Toby but is around, you know, that people have seen her. And I found the end of that episode, episode six, which essentially details like Libby's like own crisis.

So most of the first five episodes were like largely like in the world of like Toby and hit the way he's viewing his world. And Libby herself is also having this Like I used to be a person Now I'm a member of a family Now I feel like I'm just like This organ for this other body To feed off of And that she's kind of having this like weird

Very New York night Where she has a fight with her partner She's like why don't you just go home without me And then she stays out all night And stays out all the next day And finds herself in this park smoking a cigarette Which reminds her of her former life Like when she was a young person

Spoken cigarettes as cigarettes do. Did you like the kind of expansion of the sort of POV? I did. I really appreciated it. I think Lizzie Kaplan's great in the part and I really appreciated

that the time and generosity and thoughtfulness given to the character. And I thought it was also pretty interesting not to presume anything about Taffy who wrote the book and adapted the series. We don't know her personally. I don't know if you do, but we traveled in the same media circles.

We've been on Safari once or twice, but I could see. That was back when the Great Lions were still Roman. You know what I mean? That's right. Literary lions. But I did appreciate this episode.

I watched five and six together, and I believe it's in five, and maybe it's early in six, when Libby was basically like to be a woman writing in a magazine, like nobody cares or notices what I do other than the fact that I turn my copy in on time unless I'm writing about a man. And then she's going to write a novel, and it's hard not to think of Taffy, a woman journalist in New York writing a novel about Dr. Toby Fleischman, and then maybe burying the lead or Trojan horsing the Libby story in a way that. And maybe ultimately the Rachel story as well.

I don't know where this goes in a way that will feel more full and fair. And I look forward to that. I also want to couch this by saying, I can't imagine a better adaptation, again, of a book I haven't read. The reason I say that is because, but here's why I say it, two things are hard to do on screen that I think are easier to do in print. Again, I don't know the book. I don't presume to know how it's constructed. But if it is in some way similar, those two things that I'd like to highlight are the stretching, of an inevitable mystery,

which in this case is Toby isn't really wondering why his wife has completely vanished from society and abandoned their children. These two episodes are the ones where I was like, this is enough now. Like this is just, this feels so, they did a good job of foregrounding the anxiety when he's like something's wrong with her,

but then something's, you know, but then he needed to focus on other things and that was just his mind spiraling. But at a certain point, you'd have to, you do, I joked about this with Taylor Sherry, and like some kind of wellness check would probably be in order. And these are the episodes where I was like, okay, we got to get moving on this. But they've hidden that so well that that is a fleeting feeling.

You know, I think that's done very well. The second thing is sympathetic or non-sympathetic narrators. I don't really know how Toby is presented in the book. But one thing that happens on screen is when someone is your main character, audiences are preconditioned to like him or her or to root for him or her. And then sometimes that gets chipped away early. sometimes it gets chipped away late and it can be done very effectively. But I do think it's a different relationship than we have with books where we're not seeing their face.

We're not seeing the actor giving it their all or whatever. And so we might have a little more skepticism early. Because one of the things these two episodes did that I appreciated is that Toby's a little myopic. He's a little self-involved and can be incredibly he can be a dick. He can be inappropriate. He can screw up. I mean, we all can. I don't mean to suggest that he's unique in that.

but so much of this so much of the early episodes were feeling some sympathy if not empathy for him and the circumstances he finds himself in so that when he pulls the it's Dr. Fleischman to the camp director you're like this is an empowering moment

he is being a man in the world or an adult in the world and taking care of his business when he does it to his resident it feels weird and petty and completely about him you know and and similarly, like, there's a really touching moment with the woman who's married to not Tucker Carlson, who won't leave her apartment, where she does a nice thing for him. She gives him like a sort of a,

I guess a alpha-numeric related massage. And he's like, no one had ever just been purely nice to him and that matters. And then when he goes to her house and is not accepting of her circumstances and it's just kind of shitty about it. And he's like wearing shorts. Yeah, I'm like, he's kind of a dick. Yeah. Now, that's, these are all good things. But I guess I was really... Because the whole point premise with that woman is like, she won't go be seen in public with him. And he keeps to be like, why wouldn't you be seen in public? Like, while he's wearing like charcoal, gray banana republic shorts and black sneakers.

His dog is just wantonly shitting on everything. Put on a pair of fucking jeans, my guy. I mean, also like, it... Like, one to ten. Like, we're not, we're not the target audience for this, Chris. But like one to ten, how much of a catch is Dr. Toby Fleischman in some... You gotta tell me, man. I don't know.

I don't know. He's getting after it this summer. I like how this show feels like a fevered summer. I like it captures maybe not since do the right thing, summer in New York. Wow. I'm just trying to get your attention. That was my comp as well. So I appreciate that.

Just to finish the thought, I was like, I was just admiring the way this adaptation has handled those two things while noting that these two episodes. they weren't as pleasurable for me as the previous ones were. And again, that's okay. I think the show Fleischman should get into trouble. I mean, it's right there in the title. But some of the stuff felt a little bit like, it's just like it wasn't reading the room of the show. Like the kids bursting into a touching impromptu duet

duetting the Hillary Clinton campaign song, fight song in the backseat. That's right. I was like, I was like, I don't. get that this is being played straight. This isn't tracking with my experience of the show. That's okay. Not too long after that, there's the Adam Brody and his girlfriend McPasta scene, which is beautiful, because I think my goal in life is to have Adam Brody make me pasta now, because I am, he's not in trouble in my book. I would watch him on any show forever. He's fantastic. But just that, like,

the show can hit these moments with, it's almost, I can almost take it for granted, the types of emotional scenes that the show does really well, which are, which it makes it, it makes it look easy when so many other shows don't even try. I have a problem with the depiction of travel on this show. Thank you. I was hoping we could get here. I was worried the show has gotten too soft, but thankfully Sam woke something up in us, I think. Well, he yelled at us about like, oh, you guys want to watch people travel, like, see how long it takes from get to planet to planet or to get across the Game of Thrones land on Dragonback

or whatever. And it's like, fair point. That's well taken. But as somebody who lived in New York City for 10 years, maybe not the years specifically related to where the show is set, but right before then. I don't think this show is doing enough work to show just what a grueling fucking death march it is to get anywhere in New York City, much less to New Jersey. Yes. It's the New Jersey part. Now, I did live in New York City until this summer. This is the summer I left. This summer got me out, 2016. And one of the beauties of living in New York is, you know, 24-hour subway, you can get wherever you need to go, even if everything smells like dumpsters full of, you know, overheated, exploded

rat carcasses. It's fine. But there are some things that cannot be done. And one of those things that cannot be done is if a friend has moved to Jersey City or Montclair or place like that, what cannot be done is you cannot see that friend anymore. No. I'm very sorry. You cannot.

Maybe on a weekend. And you can't be like, I'm just going to run over to New Jersey for the day. No. Or vice versa. The single least believable thing about the show, which is heartbreaking because I do think Lizzie Kaplan's arc is moving and, you know, not necessarily relatable to our experience, but broadly accurate of magazines as I remembered them and worked in them. But she's not coming to hang out in Madison Square Park on a weekday from Jersey.

She's just not doing it. Yeah. She's not doing it. That is absolutely insane. It has the same energy as people. So when I would come to L.A. as a visitor in a magazine run by people who said that that prose was killing it and murdered it or whatever they do on this show, they put me up in West Hollywood, because that's what the hotels were.

And a friend would be like, I live in Silver Lake, would you like to come over? And I would be like, yes, I would. And I would get in a rental car. And someone would offer me a printed MapQuest directions. And I'd say, no, thank you, good man. Sunset Boulevard runs from where the sun sets to where it rises. and I would just drive on it. It probably took 50 minutes.

Yeah. I'd be like, great. No problem. I don't live here. It took eight days of living here before Los Angeles felt a little far west. You know what I mean? So just imagine if there was a river.

Yeah. That part is implausible. A tunnel where nothing ever worked and it was crumbling and nobody drove forward. I just had a shiver. My God. So what is... Where are you with all of this?

with this, I mean, because I think there's a version of the show that we also both were enjoying, which is like 40-year-old people with 40-year-old people problems, is an enjoyable hang. I don't think I can assess this show properly. It's not that it cuts too close to home in that my life reflects this, but like, the issues of this show are so familiar to me in my personal life in terms of things my friends are experiencing or I've experienced, and just even the anxiety about where to move and where to live and where to raise kids and I want a yard versus I want the juice of the city or whatever. It's like, it's really weird.

It's just kind of like, I find it in that sense, incredibly entertaining. I would say, Chris, as someone who is your friend and watches you as you consider a lot of things about like where to move and, you know, and also that you take, you do take some emotional information from the TV you watched, I worry about the references to 1873, 1883. Because they also were interested in Oregon. Yes. Do you know what I mean? I just feel like that's not a good model. I can't do the same business as Sam Elliott did in Oregon. That's fair.

Okay, so we're going to keep talking about Fleischman. This will be our last new show of the year. So we're going to do a mailbag, the episode that goes up, I believe, next Thursday. So we won't get a chance to chat about Fleshman until it's probably concluded. But I look forward to talking to you about the end of this series. Yeah, I'm really, just to put a button on it. Like, it's time now for Claire Daines to come back in the show. Like, this is time.

And I would really like to know about it because I did think that the split screen... Although it would be really funny if Harrison Ford style, she was like, that's great, guys. Thanks for their great three days. I'll say that not since... A film scene I reference a lot is the split screen meal in Annie Hall, where Annie Hall's family is eating and talking about the swap meat and just drinking straight gin. and then it split screens to Alvi's family

underneath the cyclone screaming at each other. And I was like, ah, well, this is, this is an interesting observation on different religious behaviors. Not since that, have I seen such a broadly drawn split screen of a party, as we saw in this episode. You know, we're like

all the people who went to summer camp in Israel are just like everything Toby Fleischman says is incredible. Let's just keep pouring like Trader Joe Serraud down. his gullet to get some more of these joke jewels. Where it's like, Sam Rothberg is like, you piece of shit. Why don't you want these Rangers tickets? Yeah.

Yeah, let's go to Gestad, you dipsets. And he's just like, I'm telling jokes. It's like, never want to say that. Never want to say that a party. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Ever have a plan come together out of nowhere and realize you're missing something? Like a last minute beach day,

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Mm. One of them is having Sam on for the year M-Pod. Yeah. another one that is not always one that you participated is our next year's most anticipated shows. Oh, is that because the tradition like no other is you running through this solo from your mom's house? So one year, if I remember correctly,

I think this is two years ago, three years ago. It was pre-pandemmy. Kaya was like, yeesh, we have an ad, so we need a show. And I was like, no prob, just got done three beers watching Sixers. Let me read through this other website's list of shows and just be like, this sounds great. Which were like BBC shows.

I don't know where I. I think the website was like a like maybe an English language Swedish page. So I was just like reading off like, ah. And I think there was some really, there were some bangers on my list. But that started a tradition that I want to keep going here. I'm going to include you in it. What's incredible is I think you did that. And then two months later, Spotify,

like, we're all in. We want it. We want the whole package. CR is part of it. Give us the website. So what I got here is I've broken down 2023s. I've pulled this from several sites, but the one that I thought I would shout out because I find it to be, A, an awesome website, and be very useful for stuff like this is the playlist.net, who also did some incredible and or coverage if you're looking for additional podcasts or writing about that show. But they put together a list of like 70 shows that are the most anticipated shows for next year. as with everything, these things may or may not come out. As with everything, it could get bumped. It could get lost in the waves of streaming TV deals where it gets moved to different services or something like that. But for the most part, I think this is a pretty solid list. And I've broken it up into different categories, Sandy. Okay. And what I'm going to do is just ask you for your kind of like a vibe check, like your enthusiasm for various things here. So the first thing, which we often don't talk about when it comes to anticipated shows, is the return.

turning shows. And this year coming up in 2023, we've got a few of them. Here's some returning champions coming back into our lives. Succession, severance, Barry, Fargo Season 5 with John Hamm. They did it again. And others. And others, yeah. But I was just... Season 3 of Reservation Dogs,

season 3 of Ted Lasso, season 3 of the Mandalorian, season 2 of Loki, and then the two featured presentations, Andy. Oh, all right. Justified, Colan City Primeval on F&F. and True Detective, Night Country on the Home Box Office. Really interesting these. I'm going to need a bib when these things come.

So for just like a little bit of behind-the-scenes stuff or backstory here. So Justified is coming back as a mini-series on FX. And it is adapting one of me and Andy's favorite Elmore Leonard books, one of his Detroit books called City Prime Evil High Noon in Detroit. It is not a Raylan book, but it is very easy to imagine. Raylan taking over the cop character in it. And it does what it says on the package. It is high noon in Detroit. It's about a cop versus a psycho killer named the Oklahoma Kid. And the Oklahoma Kid in the miniseries is going to be played by Boyd Holbrook. It's so perfect. I love Justified. I think

Justified would lend itself very well to the Sherlock style. Let's just bang out three of these and then come back in a couple years. What say you? I mean, also, Timothy Oliphantist, he stayed in the pool. Do you know what I mean? It's just like in between Olympics. It's like Michael Phelps might not be, you know, the Olympic regulation pool, but he's, he's stayed wet. He's been ready playing marshals in different galaxies. I am really excited about this. And not just because of the opportunity to see that character and that actor in that character again with the same creative cast. It's what you said. Like, there are few things in life that brings such consistent pleasure as Elmore Leonard books. And I hope people, this is a good time as any to maybe we'll throw some up on some social media platform that you're not allowed

to mention on Twitter anymore as far as I can understand. But like, it is one of life's great pleasures, particularly if you have some time around the holidays. If you're traveling with your family, just grab a dog-eared paperback. They're all good. And they're all good in the best way. But to your point, like, yes, why can't we do this? Elmore Leonard created Raylon Givens, justified, sort of scooped him out of the books that he had been in. which are both also really good. I think is it Pronto in writing the rap? And then he's in Fire Down the Hole.

And then there's a Raylan standalone book that came later, I think. But why not bring out some of the great underserved Elmore Leonard books, particularly the Detroit ones, which are some of my favorites, and just put this character in it? We used to make things in this country.

We can do this. I'm thrilled about that. And why not take fucking Jody Foster and have her investigating the disappearance of researchers in an Arctic station? But that's the other thing. So it's like, we often talk about how the box that you deliver the content in matters.

And I do think that we have generally are too stayed about what is this show and what isn't this show and what it means. And take the franchise. You know what I mean? And I say this with no disrespect to Nick Pizzolado. But like, people, true detective does mean something to people in audiences and HBO. And if this is the combination that makes sense both to. revive or iterate the franchise without him and also tell a story that these interesting creators

wanted to tell with Jody Foster in a leading role in television? We all win, right? I don't think it's... Both of these things, I'm glad you group them together because sometimes it's not complicated. We're not saying both of these shows are going to be slam dunk home runs

on our list at the end of the year, but like this is the kind of... This isn't radical outside the box thinking for TV. It's just good decision-making with good creative people and let's let's take a shot at it. All right, let's move on to the blockbusters. I don't know if this is just words that were on a website and I'm repeating them and this is how misinformation happens, but I'm going to tell you something that's the title of a show,

the platform it's on, the people involved with it, and we'll just take it from there, okay? Do you know there's a show coming on Apple called Godzilla and the Titans and it stars Kiercy Clemens Wyatt and Kurt Russell and is set in San Francisco after God's Godzilla versus King Kong destroys the city and it's developed by Matt Fraction. I'm going to need a second.

That's a lot of words. Did you know that, though? I knew none of it. I knew none of it. It seems like it's a conspiracy thriller set in a destroyed San Francisco from one of your and my favorite comic book writers

starring Wyatt and Kurt Russell and Kirstie Clems. I just don't even know what to do with this information. Like, is this... Sometimes I just feel like... Like, if you get a... meeting. First of all, this is a great idea. I'm learning about it now. I'm excited. But sometimes I do feel

like if you get a meeting at one of these places that has money, like on a summer Friday, you can just walk out with like literally like the kind of bags of cash they had in Uncle Scrooge comics with the dollar signs on them and nobody's going to stop you. How could that be real? When's that coming out? I don't know. It's supposed to come out this year. Just real quick, why is this on Apple and not on, is this not a Warner Brothers thing? Thank you for asking me this, Chris. This is something that I'm passionate about, and I've definitely known about, we are very honest about how we make this podcast. We never paused to research or Google. Haven't done it once in 10 years.

It's all off the dome, which is why it is an honor and a pleasure to tell you my longstanding information that Toho, the owner of the Godzilla character, long ago licensed the rights to Legendary, the independent sort of studio that does a lot of big franchise films, and then legendary controls the rights and licenses them out or makes the project and sells them. So this is legendary for Apple. Okay. I think some previous things, you know, like legendary wanted to do a monster verse, but I think Warner Brothers distributed some of those recent films.

But it's okay. Also, that's the other thing. I can see on your face, this is just classic. I'm just wondering if this is another swing and a mist by Zaz. This is another Zaz concern trolling. I can see you're worried about him. You're worried that he doesn't have the firm hand on the rudder that a company like that needs. He doesn't have his firm hand on Godzilla's tail,

and now it's wiggled away to Tim cook. Wow. I have nothing more to add. In the blockbuster category, and I'm sure there are others here that I'm missing, but here are the ones that I think are of note, Last of Us, which is coming in January, and we'll be spending a lot of time talking about. I'm sure that's Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsey in the show based on the post-apocalyptic video game. Dune's Sisterhood, HBO Max. I wonder if that might not come out in 2023, but who knows. I think that would be a lift. And if it did, it would be end, end, end of the year. Also, yeah, because Dune Dune 2 is coming out in the

theaters, I would imagine, at the end of next year. So we also got Skelton crew, which is the John Watts Star Wars show with Jude Law, which is said to be in the vein of the Goonies, although I would have no idea. And one thing I'm definitely keeping an eye on, although it will have plenty of

baggage attached to it is Masters of the Air. That's the, basically, it's Band of Brothers in the Air from World War II, and it stars Austin, Butler, and Barry Keegan, but is directed in part by Carrie Fukenaga, although also Tim Van Patten and D. Reese. So I'm very excited for that. That's on Apple. The jam I wanted to chat with you also about, though, of these.

And I love to throw you a curveball every once in a while. I love to get the Vaseline out and throw a junk ball at you. Do you know what I'm kind of excited for? Can I inspect your cap? Can we do that? Yeah. He's got a little resin. Do you know what I'm excited for?

What? Secret invasion. Oh, this is your zag? You're into this? Yeah. Tell me your version. Sam Jackson and Ben Mendelssohn, I think, are in an espionageage show. with Amelia Clark as well.

Tell me your version of this. Because usually the way this podcast works is you're like, Andy, what are scrolls? I just wonder whether or not, like, there's a lot of like just like very, very, very solid actors in this show. And Kyle Bradstreet, who worked for a while on Mr. Robot, created it and ran it.

And he's adapted off of the Bendis version of Secret Invasion. And I think during... For what it's worth, Chris, last week with Sam, about how, if anyone made it to hour three of that podcast, we were joking about how my first job out here with Sam was on Metropolis and how all the Mr. Robot writers were like, oh, keeping bankers hours, are we?

Was Kyle one of them? And quote, hyphen Kyle Bradstreet. Right. He was the only one who said that. Well, all those hours paid off because he's fucking running the secret invasion. And while I find, like, ooh, I've taken my mask off and it turns out I'm an alien is, is not like my favorite plot trope. Was that your Ben Mendelso's invitation?

Not good. Not one of your best. No, it was kind of like Mr. Movie Phone. It was. Press 2 if you'd like me to invade your secrets. Do you think it's about people who invade secrets? No wonder you're hype for this movie. It's a TV show.

Are you excited for it? I don't know what it is. I'm really interested in it because in giving some thought to why, in my opinion, a lot of Marvel, the MCU TV stuff, has not worked versus how it could work. One thing that I did realize is that the reliance of TV to sort of, some of these TV shows, to kind of fall into the same trap as the worst parts of the movies, which is the sort of, like, by the number's origin story. And so by the time the first series is over, you've gotten to the point where characters are interesting,

except now it's been eight hours instead of the first 40 minutes. I would much rather the TV shows do the bananas crossover shit from the comics that you can't do in movies. Now, you can do it in movies. That's what the MCU experiment was. But that was one of the, that's for the, hopefully is reserved for the biggest, largest ones, whether, you know, Infinity Stones or coming up with the Kang stuff, Secret Wars, all that. But there's so many of these. I mean, every year, Marvel has some of these crossovers that, especially in recent years,

not just with Bendis's stuff, but people like Jonathan Hickman and, Jason Aaron, like really, really cool galaxy brain comic writers, that would be fun to do it on TV with pre-existing characters. And frankly, I would be super into it. Like, if you told me that there was a Marvel TV show coming to the Disney Plus service that told the crazy crossover story of Thunderbolts, I don't know what that crossover story would be, and you named the cast of the upcoming movie Thunderbolts, I would be like, sick. That sounds great. That sounds like a really fun six to eight weeks of my life watching the show. Every time you tell me it's a movie, I'm like, you were serious about that? Like, I don't, it doesn't track. So I like, first of all,

I love it when you celebrate aliens invading your secrets. But I think it's a good point. I think it's worth circling this one because it might be trying to do something different. Okay, so that's blockbusters. And out of Dune's sisterhood, last of a skeleton crew, Masters of the Air was another one you had your eye on there? of the ones that you named or the ones on my private list that I had my I have my own polling services

I've been having my operatives out in the field no I think that you're right I think the biggest question mark for me is Last of Us because it on paper it's a lot of a lot of

looking a little bit of scantz emoji like it's based on a video game it's zombie stuff again but it's HBO, but it's Craig Mason, right? It's like, it's Pablo Pedro Pascal, it's like Bella Ramsey. There's so many good,

a lot of other good actors in it too that I'm forgetting, blanking on right now, but like... Olivia Colden and Sam Jackson. Murray Bartlett, isn't it? You're so it. This is, I, just, you being in on Secret Invasion is great. The Lion from 1923

is also in Last of Us. RIP. He was the last of him. That's actually what it's about. No, just to say, like, I'm really curious about how they class this up. Not that the, I mean, the video game was like, it got rave reviews. People think of it as an incredible almost work of art. I respect that. I'm just curious how they elevated this, because on paper, it doesn't seem appealing,

but everything about the execution might make it that way, might make it succeed. Now I have a section called Prestige, and I'm really fired up for all four of these. So I'm going to just run through them, then you tell me which one you're most excited about. The sympathizer on HBO, which is, Based on the best-selling and critically acclaimed novel, it's directed by Park Jamwok, and it features Robert Downey Jr. in multiple roles following a half-French, half-Vietnamese spy

at the end of the Vietnam War and then afterwards. Yep. Fuck yes. In. Mrs. Davis, Damon Lindeloff and Tara Hernandez's show about a powerful artificial intelligence and the nun dedicated to destroying it, Betty Gilpin is the nun.

Can't wait. That's on Peacock. Daisy Jones and the 6th. That's on Amazon, and that is definitely on March. I think it's March 3rd. It looks like an almost famous style show based on the best-selling novels, starring Riley Keough, Sam Claflin, and Suki Waterhouse.

And I think Olfant's in this. And Michael Weber and Scott Noistotter, who did 500 Days of Summer, wrote it, and it looks fucking awesome. All offense, the Marshall that busts them for having marijuana on the tour bus? That's right. I think they have a little bit more than marijuana in this 1970s rock band, which is what this is about. And then finally, my guy, Stevie Sodes,

open up a can of whoop-ass on us. The show is called Full Circle. It centers on an investigation into a botched kidnapping that uncovers long-held secrets connecting multiple characters and cultures in present-day New York. That is from the playlist description.

It's an all-star cast, Zazi Beats, Claire Dane's, Olafantz, again and again, and Dennis Quaid. And Soderberg directs all the episodes and Ed Solomon wrote it. You know, I'm really glad you suggested doing this because I feel a lot better about TV next year.

I was, as someone who works in it, I'm real scared. As someone who gets to watch it and talk about it with you, we're in good shape. We are. As long as it's not all these shows get dropped March 13th to qualify for Emmys. Great point. Great point. But this all sounds exciting. And these all sound like the princes we were promised when there was going to be this new era of streaming.

If the sympathizer is a real thing, if that's really happening, like I can't believe it. If Downey is going to go for it again, I know he's an Oppenheimer. I know he's getting serious. But if that man decides to act again, I just can't wait. Well, it's interesting too, because he,

I mean, this is a team Downey production. And he and his wife, Susan, they're like, this isn't, it's not a vanity shingle. Like,

they make things and they, they are very hands-on. And she's a very effective. It's very, very wire season two over there. You know? Producer. So they can do this,

right? And it takes being Iron Man to get Park Chenwick directing this adaptation. I mean, like, great. Then you have used your power as well. So that's exciting. I mean, it's been a minute since Damon had a show. Right?

Yeah, excited for new Damon. Okay, so then I have the last few ones here. I have thrillers. And then I have fun. Okay. Okay. I like both of those things.

Number one for the thriller category that I'm just losing my mind over is Class of 09, which is on FX. and stars Kate Mara and Brian Tyree Henry as FBI agents reunited after a friend's death and it's written by Tom Rob Smith. I'm just learning about this. This is real? Yes.

Wow. Tell people who Tom Rob Smith is. He wrote London Spy. He did the Gianni Versace American Crime Story. He's a wonderful writer and I can't wait to see Brian Tiger Henry take on something that he has written. Sam Esmail is going to hate this show. Why? Because Brian Tyree Henry will be in most of the episodes.

Oh, that's right. That's right. He hates that. Did you know that coming soon on the Netflix channel is a show called Collidescope from Jose Padilla who directed a lead squad, which is like this series of Brazilian action movies? It stars John Carlo Esposito. It's a heist show. And the entire premise is that it's the heist told from all these different categories. The episodes are named after colors. and it doesn't matter what order you watch the episodes in.

Great. I can't see this being something that you make a project for yourself, but I thought I've mentioned it in passing. I love it. I also, you know, guys... Ted and Reid never stop innovating. This is what I was going to say. Last week, you know, Zaz, Reed, Ted, Bella,

like they were in for some lumps from us. You know what I mean? And maybe some of them were fair. Maybe we hit a little hard. Maybe we should have pulled some punches. I don't know. But it is worth not. noting that the vast majority of people who work on stuff, whether they're in the suites in the offices or whatever, you know, they're in independent pods or production studios, like everybody's trying. And everybody, I think, at every streamer in service, has one of these. Now, maybe it's not John Carlos Sposito starring in a thriller that you can watch in any order you want. But everybody probably has their thing. You know what I mean? That matters to them. It's how things like the English gets made.

box basically, right? Exactly. So thank you for your service. People who have really put their necks on the line for these projects and may then lose their jobs because of them. We thank you. Keep fighting the good fight. A couple more thrillers, all of which sound great. I don't know if this is ever going to come out. I've been waiting for it. I hope it does. This is one that I'm where it is going to get caught in like streaming war stuff. is Steve Zalian's adaptation of Ripley, the Patricia Highsmith books,

starring Andrew Scott. Okay. Give it to me. I don't know what the story of it is. I know that they were filming in Italy. It's for Showtime. I know they made a lot of pretty bold aesthetic choices. This is all I know about it.

And I've not seen it dated. I've not seen any footage. Are we over-representing Italy on prestige television right now? Clearly not. You know? I mean, first of all, they canceled Tucci. So that's true.

That's one big dog down. Maybe we should host Tucci on one of our social media channels looking for Italy. Ours or the ringers? I think if it came from us, it would mean more. It would be like a more sincere endorsement. I'm only on parlor, so I don't know if you'd be willing to do that. Other thrillers that I'm looking forward to.

I don't know if this is going to be considered a thriller, but it falls sort of in this zone, which is Bad Monkey on Apple, which is Vince Vaughn in the Carl Heiason adaptation from Bill Lowe. Lawrence. Carl Heisen is a beloved, I would say, like crime novelist, like comic crime novelist, like usually very like rogues gallery of characters in Southern Florida, trying to get one over on each other, not unlike Elmore Leonard, but perhaps a little bit less noirish and more, more like

fully comedy. It seems like very ripe for Vince Vaughn's interpretation and I can't wait to see a bag monkey is also very, very funny and good book. Here's one that I am like, where the fuck this put it in my face is get Millie Black. For years now, we have been waiting for a Marlon James adaptation, whether it's brief history of seven killings or his fantasy series Black Leopard Red Wolf. This is from him directly. It's not a novel. It's one he wrote. And it is about a Jamaican-born UK detective who goes to Kingston to join the police and cross his paths with a Scottish detective. Yeah, get me that. Did they make that? Is that happening? That's what it says. I'm just really,

what I see. This is my research. Marlon James, come on the watch. A couple other things. The night agent. I just love the setup for this. This is a Netflix show from Sean Ryan, and it's about an FBI agent who is told to sit in a room and watch a phone that never rings until ellipsis. And then it also features... What? It rings. What happens? It features Hong Channel. Don't spoil it. And then we get to the fun stuff. A couple of fun things. How about poker face? I was hoping you were to get that. Cute.

I was going to bring this up. Then when you said that one of the categories was fun, I was like he's got it. Andy, you've got the conch. You tell me all about it. Oh, this is Ryan Johnson, Knives Out, Last Jedi, etc. Walked in to the Peacock Channel with Natasha Leone and was like,

you know what was good? TV shows. Like Columbo, stuff like that. I want to make one. And they were like, please take all of the money. And then they were like, we're Peacock. Just take some of the money. Hopefully this will be, this will cover.

wait, can we have some back back, actually? Yeah, no, can I hold just, can I hold that just till Q4? When I said money, what I really meant was. Yeah, money is a really fungible term these days. I know that non-fungeable is in. We still have this girls' five of a set. We'd love reading us. Netflix took that problem off their hands. I'd like to know more about that deal.

Netflix is like, we're good. We'll take that. Yeah, you're right, though. This is an episodic. It's supposed to be made so that you can follow the mystery of the episode and not have to be part of, like, a serialized story. I have read the first episode of this. Full disclosure, it's awesome. I have no other connection to the show, but it's really cool. It's what TV used to be, but also maybe a glimpse of what it could be and really leans into it in a way that feels really exciting. It's also a show that is benefiting from Ryan Johnson's very deep rolodex.

I don't know if you've seen, like, if you go on like deadline or a Hollywood trade and just search this show, poker phase, you will see a wild collection of people. people who are appearing on it. Because again, it is not, and there's serialized elements, but it is procedural, the sense of episode to episode mysteries in different locations. And so people can show up and just do something fun. But a lot of great cast, I'm really excited about this. And it feels like the kind of thing that if it hits, it could be significant. But the caveat on that is, what does it mean to hit in 2023? And what does it mean to hit on Peacock? I don't know. I don't know. Can you replicate it? Because Ryan Johnson kind of seems like a one-of-one, right, in terms of his relationship to the industry at this moment. So I don't know. But I think that, I was, I was hoping we're going to flag that. I'm very excited about that show. That's coming shortly. And then another fun thing that I spotted that I thought would be cool is Platonic from Apple, which is Nick Stoller's rom-com starring Rose Byrne and Seth Rogan, rumored to be in the vein of when Harry met Sally.

I mean, that's a great cast. not since neighbors. Not since neighbors. Have we seen such an amazing depiction of Roseburn and Seth Rowan together? Of Rogan and Rose. I mean, some movies is pretty funny.

I love it. I love it. Chris, you've really done me a service here. Guess what I love. Service journalism. Kaya. Uh-huh, that too. Kyya?

Do we're going to say? Yes, yes. What's up? First of all, happy holidays. Although I guess people will listen to this in any given time. If you were to choose one show that I just named

in the most anticipations, shows of 2020 list that you were most anticipated. Can you think of one? Yes, definitely the kaleidoscope one. I've always wanted to innovate the way I watched television. That's right. Kaya.

Web 2. Kaya level. Okay. We wrap this and we go on to the... You can catch me doing that next year. That's right. Kaya watching all types of orders of episodes. What's exciting is that we continue to record this podcast.

I mean, you could just stop the sentence there. that is incredible that we continue to do this. But we continue to record this podcast as if it is a serialized story. So I make reference to a throwaway joke I used to defend Sam S.M.S.M. Attacks in hour two of our podcast two weeks ago. And I say it as if it's canonical.

You know, so people listening will be like, oh, we understand why Andy suggested that Sam Smael personally dislikes one of the greatest actors of our time, Brian Tyree Henry. He doesn't. He just, Sam just doesn't like shows where the main cast is in every episode. So I think he'd really like kaleidoscope.

Sam and Kaya are the thought leaders of the Watch Expanded Universe. There's never been any doubt. We're the old guard. We're the 1873 to their 1923. Let's stick with this. I'm not going to change it. I'm calling it 1873. All right.

You're going to wrap up here. You never apologize. This episode's going up Monday the 19th. I hope everybody has a safe and happy holidays. We'll have a mailbag episode that goes up on the 29th that we're recording right now. Thank you so much, as always,

for listening to the watch. it's been another wonderful year with these two people and we can't wait for 23. Yeah, we love you guys. Thanks for listening. Thanks, Chris. Thanks, Guy.

Happy holidays, Branskys.