The Watch - Parsing Drama in a Galaxy Far, Far Away and a Conversation With Yahya Abdul-Mateen II of 'Watchmen' | The Watch

Episode Date: December 12, 2019

Andy announces the official premiere date for 'Briarpatch' (1:10) before the guys break down the latest drama in the 'Star Wars' universe (5:52). Then, Chris sits down with Yahya Abdul-Mateen II to talk about playing Cal on 'Watchmen' (15:57) and how he handled his character's big reveal in the latest episode (25:43). Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Guest: Yahya Abdul-Mateen II Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at the ringer.com. And joining me on the other line sitting on embargoed information like Randolph and Mortimer Duke. It's Andy Greenwald. Wow. Yeah, Orange Juice futures, bro. The cut.

Chris, I'm just so happy to report that, you know, the passage of time remains a constant. I'm here in the parking lot outside of where we're editing and the leaves have changed. It's like an outtake from the cider house rules right now. Yeah, yeah, I love it. I've got a little foliage on my block too.

It's funny that you're talking about the passage of time because we've got Yaya Abdul Mateen the second on the show today to talk about his role as Cal dot dot dot on Watchman. Wink, wink. Yeah, I don't want to spoil anything for people. Obviously, Yaya and I talked about Watchman

as of the penultimate episode, episode 8th, which aired Sunday. It's in advance of the season finale this coming Sunday. But forget all that other TV stuff, man, Andy. I know that you have some news for us. I do. I'm very excited. My main news is after a year, basically, of working on Briar Patch, I can tell you I think I get glasses now.

That's my big news. Do you really? I haven't told you this in person. I'm telling the world, I think I'm ready to enter my Clark Kent phase. Nice. Because up to now, it's still. just been straight Superman. Straight Cal L.

I think so. Yeah. I think that this experience has lifted me up in so many ways, but broken me in one specific way. The ability to take in visual information. Yeah. You know what? High key sucks about being 40,

but still looking at your, and being in your 40s and staring at your computer screen all day. Is like, tell me, tell me. That time of the day where you're like, did I just attach my retina? But you're just looking at Volture?

You know? I, I bet myself when I was leaving yesterday, I was leaving work at 10 p.m. And I was looking at the commute home. I was like, you know, how much do I really need to see to remember this route? You know, it's basically a straight shot on the 10. So that's news A. But news B in all seriousness is I am really excited to be able to announce on,

I'm sorry, what's the name of this podcast again? On the Watt podcast, the official premiere date for Breyer Pass. And that date is Thursday, February 6th at 10 p.m. on USA Network. Drop the Chernobyl music. We got the ER slot, baby. Thursdays at 10. I love it. Is that up against Grease? Well, one point we really know to take the wind out of a blind guy in sales.

I guess so. I guess so. But look, you know, we live in a world where you don't have to choose one or the other. Just definitely 100% watch Breyer Pack live and tape the other show. That's really all I say about that. Watch Briar Patch, download Briar Patch legally for your viewing devices, write to your local councilman and tell them what Briar Patch means to you. I got to say, as a fan of old school, everything when it comes to television,

the fact that not only do I get to be on a regular TV, which is just really cool, I think, but Thursdays at 10, that's like, that's the hammer. That's LA law, man. That's really crazy. That was the slot. I know. You really did. I can buried up.

I'm very, very excited about that. And I can also let people know that in addition to that premiere day, we are also unveiling the key art, as they say, the high key art, which you'll be seeing hopefully soon on posters and subways and billboards, as well as a new trailer that I'm definitely going to link to. And the Thursdays, the 10 thing is big. And the other thing is that there is subway art, and Rosario and I were talking about it.

And we both agreed that we didn't even want to see any pictures of it from people, like me and one friends, take pictures of it in the subways, until it was properly defiled. Yeah. I mean, I really... New York has to come correct on this. What I'm really hoping for is that we get some sort of recreation of Carrie Bradshaw and the sex in the city titles where you're walking along, and it's just like Breyer Patch drives by on a bus and you just make a bashful face,

you know, like, just a guy out there getting a bagel. Except someone has drawn an elaborate snidly whiplash mustache on Rosario. Exactly. Exactly. Correct. Andy, we're going to get into this Yahya interview in a minute, but I would be remiss if I didn't ask, you know, I know we didn't do our Mandalorian recap this week,

so maybe we'll throw that in on Monday. We'll double dip on Mandalorian. But I did want to, you know, as some people may have noticed, Star Wars Rise of Skywalker is coming out soon, and the press push is happening in earnest. That's not surprising. But the surprising thing is to see on the sort of rounding third here,

quite literally with the third movie, that the Star Wars franchise a little bit, if you were being, you know, kind of, if you wanted to look at it a certain way, it's kind of eating itself a little bit. A lot of, to put, not to put, find a point on it, knives out for my boy Ryan Johnson and for Last Jedi. In a couple of interviews, John Boyega has mentioned, you know, kind of not feeling all the way there with Ryan's, Ryan Johnson's vision for Last Jedi. I don't want to take anything out of context and unfairly portray it because I know that people are going wild with it now. But then the filmmakers and the cast kind of doubled down on it in a New York.

Times article written by Davidskopf that I think came out today in which JJ Abrams was kind of dismissive of certain elements of Last Jedi talking about its meta quality and how that's not really what Star Wars people look for when they go to Star Wars. And then Daisy Ridley said there was like kind of a sigh of relief when it was announced that JJ Abrams was coming back because it was going to provide a certain structure and Boyega commented that he wanted to see basically like he wanted to get the Force Awakens back. So I just was curious what you thought about. about this as we are the preeminent non-binger Mode Star Wars Chronicles in the podcast universe? Yeah, I think it's all really interesting. I mean, I think the first thing you said is probably

the most important, which is, it's not the quotes are taken out of context, but they're taken and they're amplified. And we don't know what else was said about Ryan Johnson or about that movie. I don't think necessarily, certainly in the part of JJ Abrams, it doesn't sound like there was any ill will intended. But it's very odd to see, a stumble like this from Disney in general, a Disney property, but certainly from one of the largest and preeminent brand in the world, right? It's just not supposed to be this messy. Star Wars was always supposed to be an empire-like monolith of culture

that just delivered something that was, you know, undeniable like the force. And we've been chronicling this over the last few years, these cracks in that armor, clearly not Mandalorian armor. And, you know, you know, they were media trained on this, and they were talked through this, but it does feel like the shakiness at the root of the franchise that's public-facing

has taken root a little bit on the other side of it as well. Right? Like, I don't know if this is exactly, it's not really a dog whistle, it's a Sarlack whistle or something, right? To basically say to the fans who were kind of Gamer Gating the Last Jedi

that you're welcome back now. Right. It's all a little bit odd. And the other thing I would say is, I think being an actor is, actually incredibly hard, you know, not coal minery hard, but it's hard because you have to put yourself out there and you have very little control. And so feeling safe is paramount to an actor having a good performance. But asking them about the safety of the story that they're a part of,

I think it's kind of a sucker's game. Because, you know, what you and I liked about The Last Jedi, and I'll say it right here, you can take it out of context if you want. The Last Jedi was good, full stop, was that it was not safe, was that it poked holes in, and chipped away at the veneer of Star Wars as this impeccably perfect sculpted thing and challenged it in really interesting and honestly for this franchise radical ways. So it's a bummer, basically.

Yeah, you know, there's nothing that's coming out of this press thing. I know it's supposed to make everyone feel better and feel relieved, but there was nothing about Force Awakens that made me feel like, boy, this is a bold new direction. Yeah, one of the things that Boyega actually pointed out in, I don't know, I read it on the wrap, but I'm not sure where the original interview was,

which I suppose speaks to the problem here. But Boyega was talking about how the original trilogy of movies was so solidly about Han Luke and Leia and that that trio of characters really drove the original trilogy. And this second trilogy, or this third trilogy, rather, of films, has really been, it was supposed to be about Finn, Poe, and Ray, but it's also about Kylo, but it's also about Han, Luke, and Leia. and also about

Snoke and whoever else and we're not sure and also you know Dominal Gleason there's a lot of like they kind of tried to do too much with these three movies

and Boyoga I think actually got at that which was like perhaps the canvas was too wide perhaps we started like too many different sub stories and I think that I think that the Last Jedi tried to lean into that

and have as much fun and thoughtful things to say about that as possible but I think he was actually pointing at something structurally wrong with these three movies. It's just that that wasn't Ryan Johnson's fault. Those problems were there at Force Awakens. Oh, yeah, and you said it yourself. I mean, you can't say this movie is about the new and the old at the same time.

And The Last Jedi is actually super brilliant because it's about killing the old and the service to the new and how uncomfortable that can be, especially when the new is looking so desperately to the old for a reason to exist or for something to pick up on or for some such, some purpose, right? And the other thing about it is that they threw a lot of characters at us in Force Awakens. I think the other thing about The Last Jedi that was smart is that it said, well, no, the Ray Kylo thing is actually the most interesting one. Yeah.

And that's unfortunate, if you happen to be named John Voyager, who is giving a great performance, but doesn't really have that much to do. There certainly didn't have that much to do. And similarly for Oscar Isaac, who is a great actor, whom we love, who was supposed to die in the Force Awakens, but I guess either JJ or Kathleen Kennedy or the people who make the action figures were like, don't do that.

So, you know, it's also, I think one of the most telling things about that New York Times article, which I'm sure people will check out, is actually it ends kind of with a joke that actually gives the whole thing away, where at the very end of it, they're joking about how they all know

this isn't the last time they're going to play these characters. And Oscar Isaac is joking that he's going to be on a Disney Ploos series. And the truth is, he probably will be. Yeah, absolutely. That character was kept alive, probably for a Disney Blues series. That's it.

And so what kind of resolution are we really looking at with this movie? And I fundamentally just don't know whose story they're trying to resolve. This is a lot of big questions to throw out for a movie that we haven't seen. We haven't talked to anyone who's seen it. Maybe it's great. But for anyone interested in my temperature in this parking lot, a week before we see the movie, is that I fundamentally can't believe, but also, of course, they're going to make it all about Palpatine the whole time. Yes.

Because I guess they felt like this movie needed a Soron, or the whole, they needed to be three trilogies that were actually one story, but who told them they had to do that? Not Ryan Johnson. We'll see how, we'll obviously be talking a lot about Star Wars in the coming weeks. We will obviously be talking about how

Watchman wraps up. We had our interview with Damon Lundeloff on Monday. My interview with Yaya Abdul Matine the second is coming up next. Andy, thanks so much for calling in, man. Thanks, Branski's. Talk to you next week. Later, brother. Today's episode of the Watch is brought to you by the Real, own iconic luxury items at

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Today's episode of The Watch is brought to you by American Express. I am one of the lucky few with a commute in L.A. that only takes about 15 minutes. But I still make the most of my drive by listening to my favorite podcasts. I'll get a head start on shows like House of Carbs, binge mode or the big picture, and then I'll finish up the episode when I get to the office. It's a great way to ease myself into the day, no matter what your morning commute looks like,

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There are a lot of things to celebrate these days in pop culture. And Pepsi can take all of your celebrations to the next level. Whether your favorite show returns for a new season, your favorite director releases a new movie, or your favorite band drops a new album. When it's time to celebrate, it's time to crack open to Pepsi. So one of the things that's going to happen on Sunday is we're just going to get an incredible pop culture night

because we've got a full day of football, which is going to be really exciting, because there's so many playoff races still going. And then we all get up to the end where we get to watch the watchman season finale. You're going to need to power yourself through it, brothers, sisters. So why not crack open a Pepsi to help you do it? Pepsi's the best way to kind of celebrate

a Sunday spent on the couch watching television. What's more American than that? Pepsi is the official sponsor of the NFL, so shout out to the NFL for having relevant games in December. And it reminds you to always be celebrating. All right, Yaya Abdul-Matine. the second. Thank you so much for joining me on the watch, man. What a week for you.

It's going down. I hardly even know what day it is today. I'm just kind of here. Yeah, so this is I'm glad to be here, though. Yeah, man, we've been watching every, I mean, it's been one of those shows that like really has that, almost like that Game of Thrones feel where like you can feel the anticipation building towards Sunday. Yeah, yeah. And then there's like this collective watching experience happening on Sundays. But I was kind of curious because I know you, you've been like following along with

the audience. If you could think of like, what's the most unintentionally funny thing someone said to you in the weeks leading up to seven before like the reveal? Like if somebody was like anybody who you know kind of like, damn, dude, why did you do Watchman? You're not even doing anything. That's the most funny. I mean, you know, no one really said it beforehand. But yesterday I was talking to my friends, you know, my guys who keep it honest with me or at least who I hope are keeping honest with me. And just yesterday they said, yeah, man, you know, he said, man, why did you keep this away from me?

You know, you know, for so long because, you know, usually I let them know about all the things that I'm doing. Right. And he said, he said, yeah, you know, if I would have known that, I would have felt a lot better about telling them to watch it, you know. And I said, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. You know, the whole time that they were just thinking, you know, man, he really took this role. he said, yeah, you only had about five lines in the first seven episodes. I know, it's because if you go back to, I've been going back and watching your parts throughout the season, and there's two reasons why it's so cool. One, it's very funny because if you're your friend or whatever, you're just like, damn, so you did this role and all you do is say, honey, your pager has been going off.

And okay. Yeah, and okay. Yeah. But then if you go back and you rewatch, I was rewatching the dinner scene with you and Regina and Don Johnson. And you can just read every single line differently now. I mean, when he's like, when Don Johnson says, oh, you know, this is what you get for skipping out on Oklahoma. Yeah. And you're so mystified about this.

And she's like, you hate musicals. Yeah. But now you know that she's actually just like filling in a blank and telling you you hate musicals. Have you gone back and rewatched any of the older episodes now? I hadn't. I hadn't. But one of the things that I, early on, you know, after I found out about the big reveal and things like that and about Cal's Past, I thought, I said, man, I thought that she was sort of a manipulative character a little bit.

You know, there was a couple weeks where I was looking at Angela a little bit differently. Really? Because, yeah, because, well, she was a character who was keeping Cal in the dark. Cal didn't know. And now we know why he didn't know or why she would not have told him. Yeah. But Cal literally didn't know. So everything that he was getting, he was getting from her.

And so there was a couple weeks where I was, you know, preparing my work. And I had the opportunity to say, you know, how does, you know, what kind of character is. is Angela. You know, she's someone who's, who can really, really truly be trusted because she's sort of guiding, like you said, she has to have been spoonfeeding cow, a lot of the information about him. And he doesn't know. So he goes along with the plan.

But even, she can always blame it on his accident. Yeah. And then there's also just like she's explaining his preferences, too. I mean, to some extent, his physical form is her choice, right? And then like everything about him is kind of shaped in terms of like, almost being like the perfect man in a lot of ways. It's kind of fascinating to think about it. Yeah, that's true.

That's like Angela is like Angela's agency there. Yeah. She makes impatient. Yeah. She probably, you know, fed that he's very understanding that he loves to cook, loves to clean and stay at home. He says, oh, okay, yeah, yeah, I guess I do. That sounds great.

I guess I do like to do those things. One of the really cool things about the show is, you know, and you've done, like, human drama. Like, I really loved first match, for instance. You know what you mean? and which people can catch on Netflix and if you like sports movies you should just definitely check it out

like it's just like a really moving drama and then you'll do like superhero like pop art action like Aquaman like Watchman seems like it's the combination of both right like you get to have the intimate human interactions even in the Saigon bar scenes and stuff like that while also satisfying like I get to float

and blow people's heads like was that an attraction in the material that combination of the best of two Definitely. You know, I like to, I like to chase my, you know, appetite has really been the word for me over the past couple years. And that's why my work is so varied. It's why I like to think that my work is so varied because my appetite changes. So, you know, I do something like the greatest showman, partner, then my appetite changes and I want to go do something like Aquaman. Immediately after Aquaman, I knew that I had to do something with two feet in the ground and just be a regular guy, like I say, a guy on a Tuesday with a problem. And then I went and I I did Handmaid's Tale. And then after that, I went in, I did Black Mirror, which was a different type of world. Thank you. I appreciate it.

And Watchman came around when I had the appetite to do something that was a bit more exciting than a black mirror. I wanted to do something that I could commit to for a while. And it was. It was the perfect opportunity to go in to do something that was heightened, but also, or that had the possibility of being heightened. but that was also grounded in some real world and real world events and with some history and really heavy stakes. So for me it was really a perfect opportunity to do something that was a mixture between the two.

I was curious without giving away too many state secrets, how not necessarily Damon and the writing team presents the truth about your character, but how you go out about finding out about what the show is going to be about? Is there like a presentation that's like, look, this is the history of everything that's happened since Watchman that we're presenting to you guys. Like, do you guys get, like, a show Bible to kind of study? Like, how do you immerse yourself in, like, all the factual, like, or at least the factual stuff for the show that the show is going to be dealing?

This is the reality. Yeah. Well, for me, that wasn't a real part of it, a real part of the process for me. You know, I came on after all those decisions had been made and they were, you know, in terms of myself, I was looking for a job and Cal was the opportunity. So I stepped on and I learned, I learned once I read the process. pilot. You know, so the pilot was sort of my Bible into the world that we were creating. I learned that we would be dealing with real events from history, such as the Oklahoma

massacre. And I learned that, you know, just with the world of Watchmen, that it's a sort of a parallel universe. And so I knew that there would be possibilities of going in a lot of different directions. But really, the pilot was my introduction and letting me know the territory that I was going to step into. It was so well written. It was an adventure. It was a who-due. gunnet mystery. And, you know, there were a lot of elements that let me know that there's a lot of potential. Now, that said, Damon and the writing staff would have always been available had I had I docked on the door and asked and say, okay, what's the scope of this thing that we're doing? Why is it important? But I think also because of the complexities of the show, Damon was also

very careful of when to give out information. I didn't even know that I was playing the character that I ended up playing until I shot two episodes. Right. You know, and then I sat down and had a conversation on the couch, and that's when, you know, that's when I learned. So he was very, very judicial with specific with parsing out information, including the cast on the bigger picture. Did you, when you found out, were you like,

I wish I'd known this for the pilot necessarily? No. Like, do you think you knew you're glad you didn't? Yeah, I'm glad I didn't because I got a chance to really develop a real attachment to Cal. Wow. And Cal needed to be a fully fleshed out person, as fully fleshed out as he could be, so that when it came time to make the change, that people had an emotional attachment to Cal. And so I wanted people to experience Cal and to say,

Cal was a guy who was a man, who was a lover, who was sort of a simple guy, but who was confident in his position. He was a protector. And he was really like a backbone for Angela in her chaotic life. and I didn't want to you know I didn't want to muddy that with projecting onto something else that was something more mysterious

and it really gave me the opportunity to really focus on one character at a time and not muddy the two Yeah it's interesting that you say it that way because then I imagine even once the reveal happens the first sort of really piece of acting that we see of you doing that

is you just with your hands Yeah but it's kind of remarkable because, like, it kind of goes along with this idea is, like, how would you stare a God in the face? Yeah. You know, so can you tell me a little bit about shooting the Saigon bar scene? Because I thought that that was so remarkable. But, like, you're still acting with, like, your collarbone and your hands and your wrists and stuff.

Like, tell me a little bit about blocking that and playing that scene with Regina. Well, first, I was so excited to get to my episode, right? To get to the episode where I get to do my thing. You know, I kind of been, you know, in the shadows for seven episodes, happy about my position and everything. but not really getting to, you know, really take on something in the way that I, in the way that I know that I can. And I get to the script and there's like 16 or 17 pages of bar scene. And I have on a mask. And I'm like, come on, guys.

Like, you get to my thing and you're not even going to film me. Like, what's going on? So that was the first thing. But after, you know, after, you know, you get over yourself and you go up and you show up and you do the job. And it really was, it really turned out to be a gift because I got to sit down and, play with Dr. Manhattan and to learn about his physicality of this, of this new character, to live inside of this new body that I'm bringing to the camera without the pressures of really performance. And so I got to spend a couple of days inside of this different type of

physical container and learning about the ways that he's, you know, precise with his movements and the way that he articulates himself in his body language and his voice. And I just kind of got to work on things without the added pressure of knowing that this was what the entire performance was going to be. I kind of got to piece it out and things like that a bit. And then, you know, it doesn't hurt when you get to sit across from Regina King and just, you know, and that becomes my job for a couple of days. Yeah, you know, it's such a remarkable scene because for the entire season, like we were talking about earlier, like there is a degree to which, you know, Angela is managing Cal and is kind of like keeping him in the dark about certain things.

obviously, but is definitely shaping him. And then that's the first time we get to hear Cal's voiced, so to speak, you know, speaking for himself and also kind of coming from a position of, you know, the utmost power. Yeah. Like almost spiritual levels of power. Yeah. I was curious because, you know, I know that you, you went to school, you went to Cal for

architecture and worked in city planning. This might be a little bit of like an out there question, but I was wondering whether there's a part of you that can see story in the way that some people might see blueprint drawings or like that you think you have a whether or not you feel like your background in that that field gives you an appreciation for the narrative construction and the kind of things that Damon and the team

were trying to do with the show and all the different layers and all the different like digressions that eventually kind of come back together and you know whether that gives you a heightened appreciation well it's well I mean I think the thing that you're touching on that I identify with is layers piecing together story and many different layers there was a time

where I used to, in walking around in the world, I used to, like literally, there were always red lines that I would see. And the red lines would be connecting one building to another building and one platform to another platform. I was always designing in my head the world that I was moving in with red lines. Now I sort of take that same brain and I'm sort of always crafting stories, always looking at images. Those lines have turned in images and people turned into.

opportunities to piece people and scenarios together and tell stories. So I think I, and also just as an actor, I think I've become really comfortable with physical space, you know, and having my spatial awareness. We like to call that 360 degree awareness, you know, just the physical awareness of everything in my surrounding. And I think that definitely helps me as an actor. But listening to story, you know, and an experiencing story from the multi-layers and the way that Damon does, that's a very unique talent that, talent that he has. And it's a, it can be a

challenge to put on to attempt to step in, to attempt to step into that brain. Because you're like one part of it, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because like when you guys are doing, you know, your scenes together, you, you're, you're probably quasi aware of like the Gene Smart element of it and like, like, Gene Smart's calling your character on a pay phone and stuff like that. Like, how much of that stuff are you drawing from or how much of that stuff have you, have you, have Or is that more of like after the experience, you kind of go back and look at that? It's sort of like that. It's sort of, you know, after the experience, you go back or even when, you know, even, you know,

you read it and you know about it. But if you can't use it at the time, I don't try to force it in. Yeah. But like with the guy with Dr. Manhattan is, you know, the challenge is, the challenge was he's experiencing everything all at the same time. Now, if I sit down and I try to play that, I'm never going to, I'm never going to make it. You know, the performance is going to be a mess. I'm either going to be doing everything or I'm going to be stuck doing nothing.

You know, so I try to take each moment one at a time and let the writing and let the editing and let everything else show that I'm actually in multiple places. And so it's sort of, you know, I kind of flip it. And instead of doing it all at one time, I do one thing at one time, one thing at one time and let it all equate to me doing it all. So you're just thinking about like how was my head? hand going to move in this thing. Yeah, I just try to stay extremely present. Because I think that's the thing with the guy like that character. He's extremely present.

He just happens to be extremely present everywhere all at the same time. Yeah. I just have the luxury of them filming me at one time. They're filming me in the bar, so I'm going to be as present as I can in the bar, you know, and as present as I can with Angela, unless there's scenes where he's where he admits to be distracted and things like that. So yeah, he was definitely a challenge stepping into that, probably the most challenging thing that I've done on film today.

You know, you're watching along with people. I know that you do a lot of stuff on social media where you're like kind of very much present for people as they're kind of watching the episode. I was wondering what's been the most heartwarming and affirming thing that you've seen and also what was the most surprising thing that you've seen as you've kind of been looking through people's responses to the show? Just, you know, people are, it's kind of funny, and it's kind of funny that, well, you know, there's a couple things. One of the reactions is that the people don't realize that I'm the same person from Aquaman or they don't realize that I'm the guy from the get down or a first match or something like that.

So just watching, you know, there's a certain pocket of the Internet that are, you know, that I get to watch discover me for the first time over and over and over. And I'm like, oh, I remember you said the same thing. Like this person said the same thing a year ago about something. Like, oh, my God, who is this new actor? That's a very Dr. Manhattan-esque experience. Yeah, yeah, yeah, just watching people experience me and learn who I am over and over. And then, you know, people just really appreciating my versatility as an actor and saying that they're really happy for me that I've got to really sick my teeth into something and things like that. That's been nice, you know, celebrating the success with people who have been watching me as I've been growing for the past couple years.

So, you know, that's been really nice. That's cool. Yeah. Damon was in this week. He came by on the pod and he was talking about a lot of like the anxiety that he had going into the project. I think mostly rooted in the idea of satisfying like preexisting Watchman fans. And my partner and I, Andy, were kind of like, yeah, but the thing is is that you guys created like a whole new generation of Watchman fans who are now going to think of Yaya as Dr. Manhattan like that. And they see themselves in that.

And that's incredible. Like that is actually like a miracle when you think about like how toxic and fucked up pop culture can be these days. Like that's a pretty amazing experience. Yeah. I mean, that's been a very rewarding part of the conversation also is people saying like we get this new image of Dr. Manhattan or wow. You know, God lives in the body of a black man. Yeah. And being so moved by that and being so inspired by that.

And you're right. There's a whole new generation of people who, in a whole new demonstration of people who, and a whole new demonstration. graphic actually, who would not consider themselves fans of comics for fans of the Watchmen. They wouldn't have been tuned into this show. But you get someone like Regina King and we talk about some of the subject matter that we're tackling in our show. And all of a sudden, people are, you know, it's opening up a whole new watching, a whole new viewing experience where people are saying, oh, wow, I'm a fan of this comic.

You know, I'm a Watchman fan, you know, and then, yeah, I'm down with Dr. Manhattan and, you know, and things like that. So it's really been nice to be a part of those conversations. and really, really reinforcing the ideas that representation matters, you know, even for myself. I was a guy who didn't think that it was possible to be an actor until I saw Marshawn Lynch, actually, running back for the Seattle Seahawks. We went to Berkeley together. And I saw him on television, and that really just demystified the idea that the people in the television were just that the people in the box.

Like you saw him on TV just when he was playing at Cal? No, I saw him on TV when he went pro. So I saw my cow. Yeah. But when he went pro, that's when it was, I was like, oh, he's one of those people that's inside of the box. Yeah. Oh, so I can do that, you know. And it's crazy because I had every, you know, it's crazy that it took someone that I knew to see them in that position.

And then that made me think of my, think that I could be an actor. Yeah. I think about something else. So it was really about, you know, representation and about seeing someone that you can relate to, succeed or be projected. in a certain way. And I have to imagine that in the capacity of being a part of the watchman world of playing this character,

that people are being inspired in the same way. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Like that must have been around, what, like 08, 09 when he came into the league, I think like that. Somewhere around there. Maybe 2007 or something. Seven?

So that's right when like the sort of comic book movie boom starts, right? That's like, I guess Batman begins as 05 and then Iron Man's 08. When you were in school, when you were even just like, when you were just studying architecture, were you like really into these movies or was this something that, no. No, no. No, I wasn't a guy who went to the movies.

I didn't go to the movies. Really? Yeah, I mean, I saw, I'm still seeing movies for the first time. I mean, I saw The Godfather for the first time two years ago. I saw Shawshank. Did you like it? I did. I did.

I did, I did. And I was so, I mean, it was really cool that I could experience that as an adult, that I can come to it for the first time. There are so many people saying, oh, man, this is the first time you've seen it? I wish I could sit down right now. now as an adult and watch that for the first time and have that experience. You also find out when you watch Godfather that like half of the things people say to each other are from Godfather movies.

Right, right, right. You get to see so many things. And also, what was that? Sharksshank, Shardt redemption. You know, I mean, in high school, you would write on your desk, you know, yeah, yeah, was here and so and so was here. And all this, and that can be traced back to Shau Shafth. I mean, I don't know where it goes to before that, but I didn't know that I was being

influenced by that movie. Yeah. You know, so there's so many things that I'm just coming to now. and experiencing because I was never, never thought of myself as an actor that was not the plan at all. And so I wasn't, you know, really, really crazy about movies or anything like that growing up. Have you nerded out since then or even since Watchman's come out? Like, have you started looking at like Reddit or like, do you read the, do you know the PDPedia thing that they put up? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because they had like Calvin's medical report up there. I posted that on my Instagram. Oh, you did? Yeah, I was very excited that he was from Philadelphia. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, man. I mean, the fans and the supporters, they go deep. They really go deep.

And that's really cool to be a part of something where, you know, I care about it. And then there's conversation online. But then with Reddit, and there's just a whole new community, a whole different community of people that have their, and it's so dope that they can have their experience and their passion validated. Like, there's a space for them. And I imagine, you know, even, you know, when I was in high school, the kids who liked comics and who they were just like,

I was, that was just a little bit too weird. They were dorks, yeah. Weird for me. Yeah, yeah, sure. And I was a kid who was in the debate team, on the debate team, in the chess club. I played chess every day at lunchtime. I was on the basketball on the track team as well. But I was a geek at the same.

I was a geek. You know, me and my best, my two best friends, I can't believe I'm saying this. We wore turtlenecks every Thursday. You know what I mean? Just like, but comics, that was too far. Was it turtle neck Thursday? It was like something like that. Yeah, we wore turtlenex on Thursday.

It was like turtleneck Thursday. I can't believe I'm saying that. But we did it, and we were still cool. You know, we were, like, on the varsity basketball and football team and things like that. So you were walking around rocking a turtleneck, but you really, but I can't read that man. I'm not, but I'm not, I'm not, I'm not reading comics. I'm not reading comics and anime. I'm just not one of them.

Because they would, they would, people, like, they say that this is how they, there's like a meme of how kids used to run up the hallway with their hands back and with the both of their arms back and leaning forward. And it's like, true. This is how they used to run. up the hallways, and these were the kids who read the comic books. I was like, you guys are pretty weird. Yeah, but I'm going to Chess and Tina. Right, right, right, because you guys are weird. I'm going to Chess, and after that I'm going to debate.

But you guys are too weird for me. But it's nice that they have a space where they're validated, and damn right. Yeah, and now they're the only game in town, it seems like. Right, right. And they're probably writing our shows, you know what I mean. The, yeah, I wanted to kind of circle back to something you said in the beginning where you were talking about talking to your friends about your work and how you like to just kind of be up front about it. But it seems like if anybody looks at your IMDB page, you're going to have to be tight-lipped for the foreseeable future.

It's really all that I do in my work, really. I don't know how I do any press. It's just signing NDAs. Yeah, Candyman can't talk about that. Aquaman can't talk about that. Aquaman 2 can't talk about that. The Matrix can't talk about that. Can you even talk about Chicago 7?

Yeah, you know, I think so. I haven't been told that I can't. So I may as well, I was about to hurry up and do it while I can before they tell me to... Have you guys started working on that yet? Yeah, I've already, I finished that just last Thursday. What was it like doing Sorkin dialogue? Dope, man. I mean, it's not even like you...

And everyone thinks that, you know, you have to speak really fast. That's not true. There's just not a lot of action, you know? And, you know, the dialogue is a character. You know, just kind of lean into it and say the words. The thing that's so cool about working with Aaron Sorkin is that, at least that I found cool, is that I didn't need a lot of direction, a lot of help because the writing is so good

that all you really got to do is, I hope that doesn't sound like a slight to errand, but all you have to do is cast it really well. You know, you build an excellent world, and you write it well, you cast it well, and then you get actors who can follow the blueprint. Yeah. Sort of you can step out of the way

and then let good actors do the thing, you know? So, I mean, I was in a room with, you know, Eddie Redman and Mark Rylidman and Sasha Barrett Cohen, Joseph Gort Levitz and Franklin Jell. I mean, every day, just being in the space playing and exchanging energy. So that was a phenomenal experience. You talk about wanting, you know, appetite.

And, you know, that's something that I've definitely had the appetite to do for a very long time. That's incredible. I can't wait to see that. I'm not going to bother you with questions about Matrix and Candy Man. I can't answer. Yeah, yeah, thank you so much for coming on the watch. No, thank you. I appreciate it.

It's a pleasure. Today's episode of The Watch is brought to you by Pepsi. There are a lot of things to celebrate these days in pop culture. And Pepsi can take all of your celebrations to the next. level, whether your favorite show returns for a new season, your favorite director releases a new movie, or your favorite band drops a new album. When it's time to celebrate, it's time to crack open a Pepsi. Man, I can't wait to crack open a Pepsi and watch the season finale of Watchman on Sunday. We've had a lot of great stuff from Watchmen this week on the pod. It's been

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