The Watch - Paul Scheer on Adapting ‘Galaxy Quest’ and Watching Classic Movies. Plus, Unpacking the ‘Barry’ Finale | The Watch (Ep. 257)

Episode Date: May 14, 2018

The Ringer’s Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald discuss Sunday night’s finale of ‘Barry’ (2:00) as well as the latest episodes of ‘Killing Eve’ and ‘Westworld’ (8:30). Later, they chat with comedic actor and filmmaker Paul Scheer about his recent undertaking, adapting the beloved meta sci-fi movie ‘Galaxy Quest’ into a show for Amazon, and his new podcast, ’Unspooled' (17:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at The Ringer.com and joining me in the studio, take me to the hole. It's Andy Greenwald. Happy Monday. Iconic moments. Just keep coming out of Killing Eve, man.

What a great show. Great night of television last night. Sunday was amazing. So we had the season finale of Barry. Yeah, we're going to talk about that. What is there, two more episodes after this one of killing Eve, I think so. So we had that last night's killing Eve. Obviously, there was Westworld.

We were going to talk about Westworld. Guys, I watched Westworld. Do you want to give some top notes on Westworld? So here's the thing. Westworld, Barry, killing Eve. And then we actually had Paul Shear come on. Paul Shear, you may know from the league, from human giant, from a thousand different things. How did this get made podcast?

How did this get made pod? And now he has a new podcast with Amy Nicholson called Unspooled. But he just stopped by. And we just like let it rock for about 50 minutes. Because in Paul's defense, he was being a good husband and dad and let his wife have Mother's Day. So he did not watch last night's shows. So we had a great talk about any number of topics, including some stuff from Human Giant,

David Fincher on the set of Zodiac, meeting Robert Downey Jr. We talked about unspooled. We talked about our own navigating television while being married. I mean, it was a great, fun talk, a wonderful, wonderful guest. But we didn't talk a lot about Last Night's TV for obvious reasons. So let's do that now for a few minutes. We may get back into this as the weeks go on. But I want to talk first about Barry.

Yeah. Which I thought doubled down on your like, I wonder if Barry can come back from this. Yes. And this is going to have spoilers for last night's Barry, obviously, and last night's killing Eve. But you're like, I wonder if Barry can come back to this when he murdered his friend Chris. Yep. And then they definitely went there. I thought it was very consistent with what the show was.

but is a huge challenge to the quote-unquote idea, the quote-unquote likeability of someone who was already an assassin until he started, before he started killing characters we liked. Yeah. But now killed off one of the most beloved sort of likable shows

on the show, on the show itself. Yeah, Janice. One of them, do you want to take it? He killed one of the most beloved shows, he said. But killed one of the most beloved characters on the show in Janus. I remain incredibly impressed by the show. I respect the living hell out of it.

I really enjoy it when I can peek through my fingers to watch it. I think the show has gotten better week to week, and I think it's gotten more confident with the very, very specific and extreme balancing act that it's attempting to do. I agree with you. Jim Panoazek, the TV critic of the Times, wrote a great piece that actually encapsulates

a lot of the thoughts we've been expressing over the last few weeks, which is we are now entering an era where maybe they shouldn't make more of things, even though the economy still suggests that they should. And specifically his piece was tied to this. Like, where does Barry go from here? Sure. I'm pretty much there with it.

Like, I thought this episode did probably the best job of navigating those two extremes because it sort of quarantined Barry off from the humor and made him a blunt instrument of trauma, basically either outward or inward throughout, where everyone else is sort of bouncing around him, which is a surprising way to play a show in which one of the standout cast members of Saturday Night Live is the star, but Bill Hader is a very unique performer.

And so Sarah Goldberg had a really strong scene. So Henry Winkler has the strong scene. So our man, Noho Hank, is just crushing it with the most extreme comic party. Sure. It was a really ballsy play to end the season the way they did with a time jump, with the inevitable unraveling of this murder sweater that he had spent the season in stitching. I got to say maybe that is a way to stand out in the landscape of 2018, which is just to leave people saying, wow, I'm just impressed.

I don't even know if they can, as you said, I don't know where they go from here. I don't know how they continue it. I don't know how they top it. But it is one of those rare shows that is one of those dares. And they certainly pulled it off for one season. And I think that the audience for the show and anticipation is only going to grow as people continue to watch it on HBO Go or now or whatever. Yeah, you know, it's broken bad.

There isn't a trajectory down. Barry's actually there already. And that was one thing that I think that the more comedic elements of the earlier part of the season, this sort of fish out of water story, maybe obscured, was just how fucked up this guy is and how violent this guy is and what his world is like. And he says that in as many words to a few different characters over the course of the season. He tries to get to be honest with people. And it turns out that that one moment of vulnerability and honesty with Gene is what sort of leads to his

undoing it yet. Undoing, once again honest with Janice, where he says, I'm trying and I'm doing, I'm working really hard to be good. And that is actually like a huge television trope is this insistence that you're a good person and you're not a bad person. But I thought that that was a really effective scene.

It's a pretty violent show. Yet there were three scenes over the course of the year that they chose to be, it almost was like the camera couldn't deal with viewing this. I thought that was a wise choice. So I actually, you know, I was under the impression that Fuchs was being cut into a million pieces. Like, I thought that was an unceremonious end for a character who had so much to do this year.

But I thought, you know, that's it for him. They obviously killed Chris and now we have to safely assume that Janice is dead. Yeah. But they wouldn't show any of that. It wasn't like the Stash House raid. It wasn't like the Airstrip raid. That wasn't played for this sort of visceral, more like what Hero Mirai shot at like, where it's the sort of like widescreen.

and everything is in view way. It was all off camera. And I wonder if that was partially the, Alec Berg and Bill Hader being like, I don't know if we can show Barry doing this. I don't know if you can show Barry gunned down a woman cop and then come back and say, hey, is this guy pretty funny?

These are the conversations they have to have, and I promise you they've had them. And part of the fuchs scene was both to play audience expectations and to get a surprise moment, but also to prepare us or maybe unsettle us for what was to come later in the episode. I think those conversations that are happening on a level that we usually don't have access to. And, you know, again, I wish we could hopefully we'll get to talk to Bill again, having seen the season to talk about how they think these things through.

But they have to calibrate how far we're willing to go. And while we, as you said, he's broken. He's not getting better. He's not going to be redeemed. But if they had shown him murdering a cop that we've come to love, I don't know how you can make second season. And that seems callous, considering he's murdered many people. Right. But that's the business they're in.

Yeah, I mean, I suppose there is an out if you have that cop lives. But it seems like Barry coming back to take a shower suggests that he took care of the body. Yes. Yeah. Right. So that's pretty dark. It's super dark, man, but it was an impressive first season. Another thing that we had talked about a couple weeks ago or a week ago was this idea that killing Eve had a little bubbling orphan black to it, that there was this whole,

other world of killing Eve that could be more of the espionage stuff, more of the global conspiracy stuff, that there could be other assassins out there, that we didn't know who, what, you know, we know this show has been renewed for a second season. How does it set up this wider world when the tension and drama of the show is driven by this mutual obsession between Eve and Villanelle? And then last night, I thought the episode obviously started, we went to Moscow, we start seeing the different double crossing going on. What did you think of a killing Eve?

that nominally like up the stakes in terms of the world that the show takes place in. I just think the show is astonishing. I just think that in the reason I'm going to say this sounds almost negative. Last night's episode was preposterous

in a lot of ways. But God was it entertaining. Boy, was their intention to every choice they made. We're at a point with a show where Villanelle's insistence on speaking English because the actress is English and doesn't speak Russian

is fine for me. Sure. A bad show, done bad. Sadly, a prison murder scene with a break-in and a breakout and they're all there at the same time. I mean, this could be done so poorly. But instead, it's just electric because every character has a full 360-degree view of who they are in the world, who they could be, what they feel, what they think. Fiona Shaw's character, his name I'm blanking on as we're sitting here talking about it. Martin's, yeah, I can remember her for his name.

Look at her all of a sudden. Look who she gets to be. Look how she gets complicated. in this episode, with this masterful patience, from when we first met her in episode one to now when she's wearing a flirtatious Ushanka hat in the middle of winter in Moscow, the show is electric, the show is deeply satisfying.

We haven't even mentioned the latest escalation in her marriage problems, which is a beautifully played scene, played surprisingly, because again, we rarely see the husband react that way, and we relate to both of them. I mean, this is emotional storytelling done at the highest level, but also espionage action, just pulpy fun storytelling.

And I am in awe of a writer like Phoebe Wallerbridge and her team, that they are able to pull this off at such a high level. Before we get to Paul Scheer, do you want to just do, I watched Westworld? I just like it. One of my favorite things from watching a lot of culture is when you see an actor who's been around for a while, get one good look and realize that maybe the ratings weren't good, but casting directors saw it. And so our boy, Peter Mullen, still, still.

sailing from that first top of the lake heat. Like, I hope Ozark fans understand that he's a really great actor when he has a Scottish accent going. I watched Westworld. I thought that it was a fine episode of Westworld. I liked the Peter Mullen stuff. I don't think, I just deeply don't care. And I don't think the show is interested in the things it thinks it's interested in.

Like, if this was a show about the human condition and human behavior and immortality, that's one thing, but it still to me seems to be about tricks and, you know, the illusion of big thoughts without doing the legwork to connect the neural synapses with the cortical fluid. Big thoughts over big moods. I prefer big moods. But I appreciated, and I think this is a sign of a show course correcting,

that the arc of Peter Mullen in the Hatch was one episode. And delivered on that. Yeah. That was impressive and speaks to the fact that they are managing their story better. You know, this show is very quickly moved into where I think, took a couple seasons for Thrones to fully be in this zone where there's just like every scene is like these storylines are very distinct and like separated out from one another and you kind of have your return, your mileage may vary depending on how you're feeling

about any one performance or anyone's storyline at any given point. And I thought through no fault, of her own, last night was like a better episode because it didn't have Evan Rachel Wood in it. Not because I don't like Evan Rachel Wood, but because I find the Dolores character so fucking ponderous and so

cyclical. And I know that that is the whole point is that she is on these various loops and learning from one loop into the next and that she has now arrived at this place. But the staging of her scenes, I think like just slams the break on the show in a way that it's hard

for it to get out of its tracks when it comes back out of it. And so I have a lot of time for a lot of parts of this show, but I think that last night I was kind of like, oh, this feels a little bit more forward moving now that we're not spending a lot of time with Dolores Wyatt.

So that's my take right now. Big night of TV, but we're really excited to share this conversation with Paul because it was a lot of fun for us. Yeah, we'll be back after a word from our sponsor with our conversation with Paul Shear. Today's episode of The Watch is brought to you by the Black Tucks wedding season is upon us, and when you're bringing

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is the only family running for that title, again, that they created for themselves. Chris, what's the point of even campaigning? The Bluffs want to be a household name. They want all of America to fall in love with them for reasons unknown. You can check out their campaign at VoteBluth.com and see the outcome of that campaign, May 29th, only on Netflix. Today's episode of The Watch is brought to you by Seatgeek, buying tickets can be complicated and confusing,

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Seatkeek, right seat right now, right from your phone. Or the Sterling brown part. Like which? Be right for trembling. Yeah, yeah. Well, just so everyone wants, is up, it's caught up. We have a special guest today. Paul Shear is here.

Paul Shear has been holding court. I'm very, I'm a fan of the pod and very excited to be here. We're super, I mean, I can't believe you here. We're humbled. We're excited. We intended to spoil every show that aired last night, Mother's Day, for you. But you, being a good husband and father, did not watch the Sunday night shows. I did not.

And I will watch, I will remedy that tonight. Barry is a fucking robot, man. What? No, they took out Barry's egg and put it in Darcy? No. No, I, yeah, no, I was trying to be a very good husband. I sent my wife away for Mother's Day, which is a good tip and trick, I think. Like, she went to a hotel. I took care of the kids. She came back. Oh, you didn't send the kids to eat two. No, no. But here's a vacation with the kids. Mother's Day to me is the best day to walk around your city because all you see is dad's stressed out. It's like, dads alone with kids. Moms have been like, get out. of the house, a lot of wandering the streets of dads and, like, baby Bjorns. So we won't do that, though. Sorry. Because you're a good guy.

We're not going to spoil. So Chris and I will talk about last night's Barry, last night's killing Eve, last night's Westworld, once you have exited. Yes, I appreciate that. And the season finale of Atlanta. And last week's season finale of Atlanta. Which I'm also- Because apparently that was on Mother's Day, too.

No, no. Look, I was talking about this before the podcast started. My wife does not watch any shows that are scripted or written. And if she does, like, it takes a while. Like, we're on America. and it's a slow go. So, yeah, I have to, like, find little holes to watch them. I basically am waiting my wife out to go to sleep,

and then I'm watching stuff. And, like, and trying to binge hard. It's almost like, okay, good, she's asleep. Here's the Westworld. Now I'm, like, cramming on Westworld. My wife now is at the point with Westworld where she doesn't even like to hear it in the other room. She was like, she was like, can you watch Westworld elsewhere?

And I was like, fine. She doesn't like to hear ghost piano covers of 90s. And as soon as she hears Dolores speaking, she's like, can you put your headphones in? I want is a device and I feel like they had this back in the 90s where it was like a Bluetooth speaker that I can hear my actual TV I don't want to have my laptop or my iPad

I want to be able to watch my TV They got those right like wireless headphones that can sync up to your TV right But it's like a big thing that you have to like connect and like an antenna I feel like come on TV should just be built in with that You just want like 90s agent guy with a Bluetooth Yes I just want a little thing

Go for Paul! All right Because I work hard from my money I don't need to be sitting crammed under sheets Like I watch you an iPad. You bought a television. I got a nice TV. I had a similar experience where the Americans is one of the few shows that my wife insists on watching with me. That's something we do together.

But we were out last week. We missed the most recent episode and it was apparently a big one. And I wanted to share a few thoughts of it on a podcast. I do with Chris Ryan who's sitting here next to you. Yeah. And so I watched it thinking I would watch it again with her and I had it on my laptop in my office. And I was watching the episode. And it was a very intense episode.

Yeah. So I was watching it closely. and she walked in on me. Oh, that's the harsh. You slam shut? Mortifying. It was a hundred times worse than pornography because she was actually offended. She was so upset with me like I had betrayed her.

And she said, I don't like it when you lie to me. That's real. I hadn't even had a chance to lie. No, this is like this is the gravest, like the new, like for people who are committed to their relationships and their wives, cheating on your wife with a TV show. Or your girlfriend. It's tough.

And I've done it before. My wife and I watch Ballastar Galactica. And then I just started to get the sense after two months of not watching an episode that we were never going to go back to it. Maybe she was done. And then I watched an episode. She caught me. And I was like, it was two months ago. Like there should be a rule.

Like, you know, I could see like not binging behind your back. But yeah, it's... We have a lot of situations where, like, in private, I'll say to my wife, like, you know, we should check this out? And she'll just like, should we check that out? Is that something you think we should do? It'll make her sound like an asshole, but she's really nice. But, like, I think she's skeptical about my opinions because I'm like, true detective is really good.

And she was just, like, die. Wait, was that about season two? Yes. And that was another show she would walk by and be like, please put your headphones on. My wife came in on the final episode of Legion season one. And it was like, she watched it like for about four minutes. Like, what is this shit?

And, like, walked out of the room angry. Like, it was like, that was the most psychedelic crazy thing. Like, he's being shrunk down into, like, a little shift. flying away. To be fair, and I think this is actually kind of impressive. My wife has never seen the television program Game of Thrones. Okay. However, whether I was browbeating her or just being a little passive-addressive

or whatever, last season, season six, she decided she would watch it so she could watch our after show. First of all, don't burden yourself for this. Why start listening to me and Chris now? That's what I said. If I could get you to watch anything, don't let it be this.

No, it's an impossible task. And so I'm now trying to like, I try to like almost do my drug dealer way of like getting her into shows. I'm like, because I know that she would love killing Eve. Like I love killing Eve. Like you guys were talking about killing Eve. I found it too.

And I'm so excited about it. Great. Like, oh, she will love this show. Watch that. And I'm like, just show her the opening scene. I'm like, hey, want that's just opening scene. Like I'm not, I'm not. Yeah.

And I'm like, and I just have to find the right time to kind of like hook her. Yes. But then when you hook her, there's no, like, my wife has no like, I can't wait to watch more. She's like, that was great. Yeah. There's more. There's only more. She's like complete, she's back in like when it was just like, I watched an episode of LA law.

Yeah, exactly. They're very good actors on there. There's kind of a meta struggle at work here because I don't know how you guys feel about this, but as someone who is still in. This is like a therapy session. No, I mean this. Someone who's still in recovery from being a guy in the 90s who would like make a mix save and be like, here are my opinions, listen to this. Oh, yeah.

I now try to like hide it a little bit more. So I have this threat, like with music, for example, if I say to my wife, listen to this, it good, she'll be like, oh, why you have to tell me about music. Are you still that guy? So instead what I have to do is quietly press play on the Sonos if she's walking in the room. Oh, yeah. So by the time she hears it a third time, she's like, oh, I know this. I like it.

Because you can't, I don't want to be. You got to leave it out. You got to leave it out. It's like a cat or something like that. You're like, you trust me, I'm going to put the food out here. That's the thing. You come at your own pace. It's goldfish in the water.

I'll try and pitch my wife on shows. And she's actually like a huge TV watcher and loves a lot of the stuff that I love. So I don't want to misconstrue it. But the value she places. on other people's opinions over mine is like exponential. And if you catch her at a party or at a dinner party specifically,

it's like, are you guys watching Howard's End? She'll be like, we're dying to watch Howard's End. And I was like, you looked at me like you were going to stab me in the thorax when I told you we were going to watch that. I don't know if you have this, but if I say something is good, my wife will often say, does Chris like it? Yes. Oh, wow.

My wife does the same thing for you. To be fair, this is as close as either of our wives get to the podcast. That is amazing. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, my wife, like, is super supportive of me, but I has always, like, watched one quarter of whatever I have done. Like, she's just like, yeah, yeah, I saw it. I was like, well, you didn't see the whole thing.

It's been like, it always is like a- Does she had, like, a randomly, like, favorite performance by you that you're just like, really, that one? Yeah, you know, I'm trying to think of what she talked. Oh, yes. She loves a sketch that I did on Human Giant, and she will talk about that sketch. And that was something I did, like, back in 2005. Like one of the first ones ever did. Which sketch? You got to tell us now.

The Let's Go sketch, which at the time was something that was brought to us by John Glazer, which is essentially based on this kid show now that I am familiar with called Wildcrats. It's like these two guys who are at a science museum. Check out these dolphins. And then they've run off stream. So like our thing of Let's Go, we heard all these guys in red jumpsuits. We're like, hey, here we are in Mexico. Let's go.

And we just name something and run away from it. And then we'd be somewhere else. And then Pat and Oswald stops us in the street and is like, hey, guys, like, you know, you always are saying, like, let's go. Like, you're never showing us anything. And then that spirals us out. And we start having a mental breakdown. We rip off our outfits and, like, one of them burns it. And then we all hold hands and we jump off a cliff and die together.

That's the sketch. But that is, like, when my wife talks about such, I like that, let's go sketch. I'm like, well, yeah, I did too, but that's a good sketch. You know, I got to say the human giant sketch that I reference a lot, since you've opened the door to this, is. is the mother who's in the moving company. Oh, mother's son. Yeah, mother's on moving company. When a child is put into peril underneath a bookcase,

a mother has superhuman strength and can lift the bookcase herself. I see. I think about that constantly. Partly maybe for the same reasons, because now I have children. Oh, yeah, 100%. It's like, where am I going to get that super? I mean, and we got a lot of flack for that because, so the premise was, you know, a mother has superhuman strength and their kid is in danger.

And so I fall under a bookcase and... You were getting your trembley on. You were the child. Yeah, I was right. And I'm under the bookcase, and she's like, I can't lift it. I can't lift it. And she's like, you're not my child. And I'm like, okay, what do we do?

And like, adopt him. So then we go through this compliment, complication of adoption. And then she goes to go lift it. And she's like, I can't do it. I just guess I don't love my adoptive time as much as I love my husband. And that was the end of the sketch. We got into so much trouble. And thank God there wasn't Twitter at this point in the world.

Because, and, you know, I guess now looking back on it, it is a pretty shitty thing to say. but, like, as a message, but it was comical. But we got attacked on every, you know, people like, that's a terrible message. People send you strongly worded emails. Yeah, testimonials on your MySpace page. Yeah, Paul. Yeah, and it was coming at us hard.

And I found out much later that they weren't even going to let us air that on MTV, but our showrunner, when he was dealing with standards and practices, they're like, I can't, you can't air this. You can't, because it was literally like a PSA tag that's like, you will not love your adopted children as much as you love, You're a real kid. And I know, I'm not saying I support this. I was very young when we did that.

Like, I would think twice about a lot of things we did. But at that point, we thought that was a funny thing because it was so ridiculous. We weren't saying as a real. I feel terrible. I picked it a scab here. No, no, no. It's, no. It's like, we were fighting this battle.

And she was like, you can't put that. You can't put that in our showrunner. I was like, I need to put that because I was adopted. And that's sometimes how I feel. And this is me, like, sharing how I feel. And then the standards of practices first said, me too. Oh, no. And then they had this moment.

where they kind of like met eye to eye and my showrunner was lying he was never adopted he just did it to get the thing on the air so it was a real like uh a real yeah a real a real whammy that sketch is like really early aughts mtvist standards and practices drama when we were following uh oh my gosh uh three six mafia's reality show that was a great lineup and it's right didn't that one like an emmy no they won an oscar for uh for hustle and then yeah but their tv show won't they have not you got it yet yeah We have many other things we could discuss, but I did want to, before we confess too many things about our personal lives. Yes, I'm sorry. No, I was the one sharing. There's something about you. I feel about you. I did want to ask you about something. You referenced it when you sat down, that you are adapting Galaxy Quest.

Yes. So this is a beloved movie. I love this movie. Yeah, me too. Can you just tell us where? I mean, obviously, you probably can't tell us everything. What's the state of this? Well, you know, it's interesting hearing you guys talk last week about the idea of, like, reimagining his reboots and stuff like that.

and I am 100% on your page. Like, I don't, didn't want to come at this in a way where it was, like, for a quick buck or, you know, not quick buck. But, you know, like, I didn't, I came out as like a huge fan of Gouts Quest. As a matter of fact, when they came to me, they were like, do you want to do this? And I was like, absolutely not. You know, I. Because you didn't want to ruin your remembrance of it. Yeah.

I felt sketchy. But I went home and I couldn't stop thinking about it. And I think my way in and what got me really excited was, oh, this is a good time to tell this. story because in 1999 when Galaxy Quest came out, it was, you know, Star Trek conventions were very niche. You know, it's where I was going as a kid. I was like meeting, you know, Leonard Nimoy and, uh, and Chekhov and getting autographs as a kid.

I loved it. But now, and basically my image was like, 1999 is small hotels, fan gatherings. And then I go, oh, Comic-Con 2017, 2018 are thousands of fans out there. Here's where the, I saw the first Avengers announcement at Comic-Con where they're all on stage. Hall H. Hall H. And I was like,

and that, to me, I was like, what if the TV show is opening with that? J.J. Abrams presenting his take on Galaxy Plus, essentially. Like, that was my way in.

I was like, oh, that's a, it's so different. It's not, it's not like these TV stars that are, uh, you know,

we never got our dude. We're faded. These guys are rock stars. But also, sorry to give you a note on your own idea, but I'm realizing what a great take that is because in 99, everyone's like, thank you for,

being here. Thank you. And now it's like, Mark Hamill, you killed my childhood. Yeah. Fuck off. The anger that we, that people have now. It becomes a whole different thing. So I found that to be my way in in a way to kind of, I keep on describing it as like a force awakens, Blade Runner-esque continuation, because I want the old cast to be in it. But to me it was like, I think there's been a lot of battles. Well, I know there's been a lot of battles because like, what is this show? And the show that I think some people want to do is just a straight up continuation of Tim Allen's Gorni Weaver and Sam Rockwell.

But I'm like, you can't put a fish out of water twice. It's like, you know, it's a problem with all sequels that kind of suck. It's like, well, they're back again. You lose that. So it was like, how can we continue the original Galaxy Quest? Tell a different story and then

introduce a new thing. Because the thing that I think we all love about Galaxy Quest is, you know, it's these people that are in the sci-fi world than actually being in a real, like, you know, alien encounter. I mean, that's the fun of it. So it's been like kind of juggling how much to kind of put in.

And it's been really fun. And, you know, I've gotten to talk to some of the people from the old cast. And, you know, we have archetypes for the new cast. It's really exciting for me to be able to do something that I feel like has not been done yet, which is like create a strong comedy show that's commenting on all the great things that I love about sci-fi. Right. And I don't want to make it like, yes, it is about Star Trek. but it's not so singularly about Star Trek

because I think you can now say like JJ Abrams Star Trek and Guardians of the Galaxy and all these things are within the same world now. It's a bigger world. Like I don't think that Star Trek has the, as much as I'm a huge fan of it, the resonance of like... And a weird way it almost maintained its cult presence. It's like Star Trek is the one that I don't think,

even though those new movies have been really successful. Yeah. I don't feel like it became this new phenomenon. Correct. The way that this Marvel and Star Wars did. And to me, my whole pitch to them is I want people to feel the same way I felt when I saw GalaxyQuatches, which was like, I love this. I understand Star Trek. I understand this world.

And now, like, I love this thing. So it's like, when you're grabbing like an 18-year-old to 25-year-old or whatever, like, who have that don't know the first Galaxy Quest? And that's, I'm trying to treat it like that. Like, if you've never heard of Galaxy Quest, like, can we get you in with tropes that you're familiar with the commenting on sci-fi? and hopefully creating like a really good action sci-fi comedy, which would be like the dream of dreams to be able to do all of that stuff, not just sci-fi, just not comedy and, you know, kind of finding... Our coworker, Sean Fentnessy and I were just talking,

I was just talking about this last night because we were talking, he wrote a piece today that's about the death of counter-programming, like how basically in the theaters, like everybody cleared out for almost a month for Avengers. Yeah. And how if you go back to like July 2015, there's just like, it's like train wreck and Mission Impossible and this. It's like, oh, you could go to the movies three times in a weekend if you wanted to see something. But now everybody's just like, people are going to go see Avengers three times.

Let's just wait it out. And like what we were talking about was basically this idea that if you saw Dark Night when you were 13, your formative movie going years are all superhero movies. Yeah. Like all the movies that you would have like quote unquote grown up with, it's 08 on is basically the rise and rise and rise of the comic book movie. Well, you guys were talking about this just last week. the idea of we grew up in like the predators

and like renting these movies that were like you know and yeah they had similar tones but we were also seeing like more dark things and things that were not meant for us like you know like to me like diehard wasn't a kid's movie

but it was something that I watched a billion times you know and lethal weapon and lethal weapon two and Beverly Hills cop you know definitely more cop centric stuff but it but it has a different veneer than superhero yeah 100%. It was adult movies that kids were kind of like

And even the movie's like basic instinct were like, I mean, like, yeah. A friend's mom took us to see basic instinct. Like in the theater. I don't know if I knew what it was. I don't know what we were doing. But like we were in a theater. It was in Florida. That was an awkward drive home.

My mom, we were on a family vacation at Walt Disney World where my parents only knew to vacation. And we watched this color of night of Bruce Willis like sex movies. And it was. And I remember sitting in between like my mom. mom and my stepdad watching like the most, I'll call it erotic because it wasn't even like, it wasn't even nudity. It was like, this movie's about sex. Yeah.

You know, like, having sex. And then violence and it was like, I just never felt more uncomfortable. Like that movie holds a really like dark place. I remember still like my big Florida moviegoing experience with a parent isn't, well, it had some sexual elements. It was JFK. And my mom took me to go to JFK on opening weekend in Florida. And I came out.

And I was like, you know how like really little kids would be like, why is this sky blue? I was just like, why was Kevin Bacon making Tommy Lee Jones sniff those things before they painted each other bones? And I was just like, why did his head go back into the left so many times? I was like really like just like I have a 10 million questions coming out of this movie. So I guess the question is, what is better for kids? Would you rather them grow up the way that we grew up seeing these things that are little disturbing or seeing like Wakanda and like Vanos? I guess the counter argument would be that this generation of kids have plenty of options for seeing grown men paint each other gold on YouTube or worse. They have access to a lot worse.

Whereas we had like urban myths about like this happened on the news once. Now you can watch what happened on the news. My friend convinced me as a kid that he had a device for his TV. It was like a joystick. And if you were watching a commercial where someone was taking a shower, you could push a joystick down. You would see like naked people in the showers. Isn't that happen in Porkies? I think so, yeah.

Was that another thing? of our childhood, which I think the umbrella term for our childhood would have been gullible. Where, like, after we saw Return to the Jedi, a friend of mine who I think maybe was a serial liar in first grade, told me, because he was a member of like a Star Wars fan club. So we got like mailing. The tracks and stuff like that. Yeah, he got like pictures and stuff. And he said, well, because I'm a member of the club, we get to be in the next movie.

And I was like, that's awesome. And he's like, you can pick what color of lightsaber you want. And I was like, great. And I apparently told my parents, like, came home from the sandbox. And I was like, you better clear out my schedule. Because I'm going to Tunisia. And look, they didn't make another movie after Returned to the Tenet. It was the fourth movie, which he said was going to be called Return of the Empire or something.

Amazing. He had a whole narrative, which really wasn't too far off from Force Awakens. So let me ask you, with the Galaxy Quiz stuff, is that you're out there and you're probably talking about acting roles, you're pitching stuff that you'd like to be involved with on the creative side, would you say, I guess how to phrase this, percentage-wise or what? What percentage of the stuff that you're engaged on tends to be reboot, reimagining,

we've got this piece of intellectual property that we want to do something with, do you have a take on it? Well, it's interesting. I think I spent this time, like I was a part of this production company, right? They got a deal from Fox. And the idea was,

go out and make pilots. Whatever pilots you want to make will fund them. And there's like 15-minute pilots. and I did something with Michael Ian Black that was like really, really funny and I did something with Chris Parnell and I did something with Jerry Minor all these, and great, we got great directors, great actors.

We made, one thing that I loved that Anthony King wrote, who wrote Beetlejuice now with Harry Hamlin, like these five like really cool pilot presentations and they all just kind of like evaporated. Like we couldn't sell them, we couldn't figure out why we couldn't sell them. And then I did a pilot that went to Sundance

It's the first year Sunday actually had pilots, like, in TV shows. And that kind of just, like, faded away. And there was a moment where I was like, and this is, like, kind of where Galaxy Quest came out of. I was like, wow, I'm like doing a lot of original stuff. And a lot of it wasn't mine. I was helping Shepard writers and put together projects. I was in stuff. And I guess I kept on hitting these brick walls.

And I was like, oh, I wonder if maybe now I should try this because it seems like people are more. It's sort of like the Broadwayization of it. It's like, oh, yeah, well, I know Lion King. I know movie and the beast. I know Aladdin. I'll go see that. I won't see something that I don't know what it is.

Unless it's about the first Treasury Secretary of America. Then we'll go see it. Yeah, then I'm in. You got a kind of friend. But it's those things where you feel like it's just a harder. I think it's harder to sell an original idea or unless you have some cachet or you, it's all luck, right? And so this is my first foray into doing something that was not my own.

And I will say that there are some tremendous downsides with it too, because it is not your own. And in the case of something that is a success, you are constantly dealing with what everyone else's perception of why it was a success and what they want to see from it. And, you know, part of me is always like, well, then you write. Like, you know, like, you know, it's sort of like, you have to like at a certain point give it over and be like,

this is someone's take on it or don't do it. You know, because it's not going to be, it's not going to check the box for five different people because everyone's like, well, no, it was successful. because this. No, it's successful because of this. So that's like, it's been an interesting thing of threading that needle and trying to make everyone happy, but also make yourself happy

and make something that you want to work on. Because who just adapted the book? You did, right? Yeah. So yeah, you're in that, you're in that zone. You know, that's a little bit more free, I guess, because it's not... People don't remember it very well. Well, yeah, and so that's like, but it's tricky.

It's a hard... I mean, it's definitely like, it's exhausting on a different level. But it's also given me a lot of freedom because people assume I know a little bit of what I'm doing because it exists. You know what I mean? There's a spine and they could just hold it up, even if they're saying, who's this podcaster? Why did we let him do this? They can hold up a book and be like, but there's a thing. Yeah. So it's sort of everyone can pass the buck a little bit. And that is an executive level, I think a lot of where that thinking comes from. I think people just want to raise, have their voice raised above the everything else that's out there. I mean, it's like, and it's hard. It is hard

to find these shows that like kind of break through and why they break through, but the ones that do break through, and now I'm like rooting against myself for a second, but is like, are the shows like killing Eve and Atlanta and this is us? And, you know, and even, you know, it's like those are the things that, because it's new, it's exciting. And I think, you know, so to me it's sort of like, can I try to create something that I would create normally, but I'm also using this name to help that. Well, I think the model for that would be Noah Hawley, who's two major success. are existing IP, but very specific and needed a very delicate touch. And I don't think when people watch Legion, they think, oh, well, this is a Marvel comic book.

Yes. He does a great job of, like, kind of stepping aside. It's his thing. This is a perfect time for me to announce. I have a radical and reimagining of the Getty kidnapping that I think. Another one, guys. Another one. It's third time the chart.

That's the oddest thing ever. That is, like, back in the day, talking about back growing up, it was like Volcano and San And Andreas, and now we have, like, Laced, you can look back in the Galmaged. I wanted to meet the guy who had the third Leonard Bernstein script. This is like, no, no, it was my moment. I did want to ask Paul, because Chris brought it up

with Galaxy Quest as a, and I'm so excited to say this out loud, multi-hyphenate. How do you approach your career? Because what seems from the outside to be very exciting because you have your podcasts, and we should mention unspooled your podcast you're making. You are in the Showtime pilot with Ball. Yeah, Ball Street.

Ball Street. You're doing Galaxy Quest. I just saw you in feudal and stupid gesture over the weekend. You're showing up in movies, disaster artists. How do you consider the breadth of your career and how do you prioritize things because you have things moving at all times in different spaces? I think to me a lot of the times, I think in, you know, in writing, it's like there's a lot of like hurry up and wait. And it's like you hand in something and then people wait six weeks to give you notes on it.

And you're like, oh, okay, I thought we were like, we really had the go. Yeah. I think where I've been very lucky is I haven't been like tied down to anything. Even when I was doing the league, I was able to make my adult swim show and I did that for like three years. And it's like I just like to be free. And as much as like when the way that money kind of comes up in these things, I don't negotiate hard for money. I negotiate hard for freedom. So I can kind of be like, oh, well great.

I want to go like I just did this movie with like Chance the Rapper for A-24, which is like. Oh, the horror movie? Yeah, the horror movie, which is like awesome, which I'm excited. I was super excited about. But it's like, I want to have the ability to be like, no, I can go out and do that. You can't stop me from doing that. As long as I show up for when you need me. And I think that was also coming out of doing seven years on a TV show and feeling very confined.

But even on that TV show, I worked in like some clause that allowed me to go. Like, I mean, the trickiest thing I ever did was I couldn't create a half hour show while I was working for the league, but I could create a 15 minute show. So that's out. So there was like a little like loophole there. By the way, we have got now half the cast of the league. this podcast. I think we have three more to go. So, all right. There's good. Look out.

That's why we started the podcast six years ago. To collect the mall. When I get the wall, it's like that's when I pitched my league revival. My reboot. Yeah. Pretty reboot. Well, I keep on saying that they should just remake the league with another group of people. Yeah.

It's like, you know, our show was super fun and great cast. Also super white, like aggressively white. Yeah. And I think there's a way to kind of like tell those stories, like continue to tell those stories like do it with a group of women do with a group of people that are not white do it with anything you can because the stories are there is that what mark two plus has on his business card writer-director aggressively white um you know so i don't know like to answer that question like about um mark two plus's business card is a yeah tell me more about is it a heavy card stock it's

it's a it's like a rich it's patrick bateman level card stock it's nice and you know people don't give out cards anymore no it's crazy so ed bagley junior gave my wife like a business card after they had together in a very polite one. I don't see people carrying around business cards anymore. It's that Begley touch. I love it. It's a nice touch. Do you think he learned that from Ed Begley, Sr.?

Was he a very... Man, can I tell you the worst moment I've ever had was celebrity. This is the place for it. So my wife, we've established, is not into any of this stuff. Like, she loved Wonder Woman. She loved Black Panther. But it's probably, I think she only saw Iron Man too. Like, you know, like that, like besides that.

work completest. She's got to see it all. So, so we're at Comic Con and I had a wristband because I did, I was doing something for loss that year and I had like a Hall H band. And that Hall H band gives you

access. Like you basically just go anywhere. And it was for the Iron Man 2 Hall H panel. And I was like, Jim, we'll go, we'll go like backstage. And I'm more excited about it than that. I'm like, this is that. Mickey Rarks there. You know, Tony Stark. I was like, this is going to be great. And I had a margarita at lunch.

since I was a little bit more loose. Yeah. And so we're walking back and we're clearly not supposed to be there. It was like all Marvel. It was like the entire couch environment too and then like my wife and I. And we're just like kind of like eating cookies

trying to like look casual. Now I have a little bit of like a connection with Robert Denny Jr. Because this guy I did a movie with he was like, oh yeah, Robert Donny and I were like best friends. We're best buddies. Like your friend who had the Star Wars

pick your own lightsaber. All it here is like oh we're on the set. Oh, yeah, I was doing this. He's telling me every day, I'm like, oh, yeah, it's like, how's your weekend? He's like, we was watching Sherlock Holmes. Yeah, I went over to Robert's house. We're just watching the edit. So it looks great.

I'm like, okay, great. So we're walking, they're walking to the elevator, right? Going down to this hall age panel and we get close. And my wife has already been in Zodiac with Robert Denny Jr. Yes, she was, right. Right. So she's been in it. Like, she has more of a connection than Robert Denny Jr. than I do.

And I get like almost like with, like half an arm's reached with him. I'm like, yeah, fucking. I'm going to say hi to him. I'm like, hey man, I'm friends with this guy, Josh. I said his last time, won't say it here. I'm friends with Josh. And he turned around and he looked at me like I was speaking like an alien language. And at that moment, like, you know when something has gone bad, like every sweat bore?

And then like his, they didn't never notice that he had two gigantic security guards. Really big guys. Their necks were like the size of my thigh, you know. And like they turned and I could feel them looking at me. And now I'm like, because I was, I said like, I said, like, hey, I think I said like, hey, Robert. I wasn't like, hey, Mr. Downey. I was like, hey, Robert, turn around. Like, I'm friends with Josh.

And he looked at me. I didn't know what to do. I'm like real nervous. He's like, I don't know who that is. And I go, I must have had you confused with Robert Downey Senior. And then I, and we were stuck at an elevator bank and there was nowhere to go. What was his reaction to that? Nothing, because I think I don't know.

I think I blacked out. I was seeing white and I just walked backwards into a crowd like faded away. My wife had let go in my hand. Like Homer Simpson into the bush? Yeah, it's exactly like that. I was like, fompering. I was like, I must have you confused.

Oh my God. Wow. I totally now want to sign up to go to the next Robert Downey Jr. Junkett and just be like, oh, uh, but I was watching fantasy. I was watching football with you last weekend. Oh, wait. That was just Robert Dany Jr. But Chris, you've interviewed Robert Downey Jr.

Chris, you've interviewed Robert Downey Jr. You were given like six and a half minutes with him. I had very similar experience where it was just kind of like, it's partially because like he's at once like the coolest guy ever. Yes. And then the least cool guy ever because he still has like, when I interviewed him, he had like Tony Stark facial hair. So it was like really weirdly like that's not cool. Sculpt it. It's like that was cool in 96 and like weird sneakers that were like kind of Marty McFly Nike's but also.

You're certainly to realize that like Tony Stark that we see now in the film is like the home. coming and Infinity War. That's only a Robert Johnny Jr. dress. It's like, I have a cool windbreaker. I'm just going to wear it all the time. Just athleasure. It does not matter. He's, I think he's like one of like the five best actors I've ever seen.

I was just like blacking out when I saw him and then I tried opening kind of similar to you where I'm just like, I'm going to tell him a crazy anecdote and he's just going to be like, why don't you and I go hang out? Yeah, right. Exactly. We're going to be the best friends of all time. I just basically was like I heard you had Steely Dan play your 40th birthday party. And I thought he was going to be like, I did.

I love Steely Dan. I was going to be like, I love Steely Dan. Let's talk about that. And he was just like, how did you hear that? Oh, no. And I was like, it was in Rolling Stone. But I was just like, ah, it was on the dark web. Silk Road.

They had pictures. No, I was just like, yeah, I was in Rolling Stone. And he was like, oh, I wasn't aware that that happened. And then he just started talking about neighbor jackets and, like, experience. Oh, like, he got into it. He got into it. But, like, I also asked, like, an 11-part question

about Zodiac. Oh, wow. That he was just like, you definitely have thought more about Zodiac than I ever did. Because I was like, that's your best movie.

And he was like, shit, that was 10 years ago. Paul, do you have an opinion? Does your household have an opinion about Zodiac? Because you may know, we are big Zodiac. Yes, I do.

Podcast on it. And yet every day you get to go home to someone who was in that movie. In Zodiac. You know, it's interesting because I think, you know,

I may be talking out of school. I think that working with Fincher and my wife had an amazing experience with him is a, it's a challenging, thing. You know, I think it was, you know, my wife had this very big scene and it was, it was like a big scene for her to kind of do and felt so, like, really, like, I did it like me. I had a great time. And then, you know, and you're still in that world doing like a bazillion

takes. I mean, like, when he likes you, you're still doing, like, you know, 55 takes. And and then she was like, ah, the movie's behind me. Great. And then. And then. And then, you're just, And then it was like a call. Like, hey, we're doing reshoots. We're going to have to get that scene again because there was a sound issue. Like, there was like a thing like they had. Oh, man. Wow.

I think there's like, you know, there's stress. I feel like, you know, it's always like you're always critical of your own thing. So it's interesting. I felt so like in it with her throughout that thing. I love Zodiac. I think it's a great movie. And I think it's actually become better with age, almost like Kubrick films. It's like they, I think when it came out, I don't think people like, Zodiac, Zodiac.

Because then it was like, yeah, it's just anticipated so much stuff about, like, our obsession with crime that's sort of taking place afterwards. So if we ran into June, what's our best bet, should we say, hey, we heard we loved you in Zodiac, or should we say, we know Paul? Which one is going to cause her to open up and which one is going to cause her to do? I would say, knowing me would close her down and then, yeah, and then, yeah. So go and, yeah. And, by the way, I'm sure she would love to talk about it. I'd think it's like, it's tricky. Like, you know, every movie, and I'd say, it's for me, too, it's like everything that you're looking at it through different lens.

Once you're there, I think it's so much fun to watch a movie that you're not involved. You know, it's like, because then it's like, I don't know anything about any of this stuff. So you can sit back and relax the experience. I think also probably to truly either like enjoy or engage with a David Finn. And I'd say this is someone who has listened to every DVD director's commentary. So I don't know if you ever, like, it seems like the only two people who have come out of Fincher experiences and just been like, I knocked that out of the park. And like that was really fun. We're Affleck and Gone Girl and Downie, Downey, who was like, I was pissing in jars and leaving them around the set just to torture him to show him.

to show him that like this is what you get for not letting us leave the set for 19 hours. And Groff too. Yeah. And Groff really liked it. Mindana. He was like, that was great. Yeah.

This is the way I kind of understand him to be. He is like a very tough, you know, football coach, kind of like your Friday Night Lights, you know, coach Taylor, who expects you to come with your A game. And as long as you come with your A game, it's going to be tough practices. You're going to be, you're going to be working hard. But he's going to be like, I think, great, thumbs up.

It's when you don't come to play. I think that's an interesting thing. Like, the one story I always heard about Robert Denny Jr. on Zodiac, and this is not through June. This is through another source, and I think I can tell it because it's not too bad. Is it Jake Gyllenhaal? Go on. Jake told me. There's a scene where, like, Robert Danny Jr. is coming down a flight of stairs outside.

It's raining and getting into a car and had done it like 50, 60 times, and was like, hey, have we gotten it yet? And he's like, no, I'll tell you when we're close. It was a wordless scene of just walking down and getting in a car. So I'm like, when you hear that, when you go, like, walking down a flight of stairs and getting into a car and a rainy thing and doing 60 takes of it, you just understand like, okay, that's on a wordless scene. So have at it. Yeah. That's where we're going. And I think, you know, and I think that in that respect, it's your, it's like, it's like, like, everyone's like actors.

Oh, it's like, you know, book. But I think it is the hardest you'll probably ever work. Well, it's like that whole thing. thing is he's apparently trying to get you to like shed artifice and it's like the only way he thinks you can do it is if you just like walk into the room 60 times and on the 63rd time. But then

I think I've also heard stories where he's like that's great print 22. Like print the 22nd take and they're just like we just did 53 more takes of me like looking at my watch man. But you know I think yeah it's an interesting thing like I just did this I'm in Future Man and Future Man and Futureman's a

Hulu show and we're doing season two and then the first the first thing I was doing was like a seven-page scene and I hadn't done a seven-page scene I can't even tell you like everything that I'm normally used to doing is like that three pages is probably the max

you know whatever but to go from start to finish was a challenge and we did that from like six in the morning to six at night 12 hours of just doing the same dialogue and I will say that like there is something oddly like loopy you're just sort of like I'm just I don't even know what I don't even know what I'm thinking

anymore I'm just doing it and there is I think there's a method to that. Like, you know, I think Kubrick did that to, like, Jack Nicholson on The Shining, too. It's like, you're sort of like, now I'm just, my brain is fully not functioning. There's that, like, famous story of, like, Harvey Kytel quitting eyes wide shut.

And Sidney Pollack took over that role because he was just like, Kubrick was having him do 74 takes of touching a doorknob. And he was just like, you got to be fucking kidding me. I'm just like, well, Gary Oldman, actually, tells that story.

Wow. On the other podcast, do you do? Yeah. You've had Gary Oldman on. That's great. I'm really glad I had to find out this way. Me and Gary Oldman and Joe Rogan talking to MMA. Wow.

You're all in hyperbolic meditation. It's called man to man to man. Before we let you go, Paul, you should talk about your... Oh, yeah. Because, first of all, we have a podcast romance going on. Yes. Your other co-host, Jason is on her show often. I love when Jason's on here.

We love having him here. We're so glad that you're here to make him feel bad. I'm so excited to be here. I felt like you guys maybe Net didn't like. I thought there was maybe a beef, and now I'm excited to be here. You guys have to come on. How did this get made now? I'd love to.

You know what? You know, I would love to have you both on, and sometimes on June's not there. It would be a, because I feel like that's been always... As soon as a June does not want to talk to us. That's been the subtext of this. Well, you know what it is? It's like, for us always, like, I like getting people who have a camaraderie and then to come on the show, because it's sort of like, it's fun because, you know, it's, we always

are trying different things. Like, whether or not it's like the dough boys is another podcast. Like, it just fun, because it's like, you guys have a thing. we'll have a thing and then hopefully it will kind of mix together. That would be fun. We'd love to have you on and figure out a good movie. But this movie, this podcast that I'm doing is with Amy Nicholson, who hosts a canon. She's a great film writer.

So I don't know if you guys had this experience either. I'm giving you the hard sell in it, but it was, I saw this poster for the AFI's like top 100 movies. It's like, oh, yeah, I've seen these movies. And I started looking at it. I was like, I haven't. But I've seen a ton of movies. But I haven't seen like on the waterfront. I saw a taxi driver, I saw it once.

And, you know, and Citizen Kane, like, yeah, yeah, I think I saw that, you know. And I was like, oh, for somebody who I feel like, for me, like, I'm up in pop culture, but I have never seen a, you know, Ginger Rogers, Fred Astaire musical. Yeah. And I was like, oh, wouldn't it be fun to, like, watch this list? And now because everyone has a podcast, it's like, well, that may be a fun way to do a podcast. I said, but I don't want to do it just the way that I do how did this get made where we're just like, because there's nothing to make fun of.

I was like, maybe there's a way to, like, intelligently talk about these movies. So I partnered up with Amy, and she's an encyclopedia knowledge of film. And so it becomes like this kind of like, it's a fun, loose film discussion class. But it's like great to kind of dive in and like talk about the French connection, which is like a movie that I think I saw once, I didn't remember anything, but that like really set the tone and format of everybody cop movie, I think, made sense. Oh, for sure. And I was like, oh, wow.

So it's a great way to just kind of go back and watch something in a way. way that you can kind of ask questions, do some research, find out what's actually going on. It's sort of, I always felt like high school or college is better served when you get older. It's like, I would like to read Catcher Rye now because I think I would understand it or it's not like, oh, I got to read Kitcheneroy, I got to read this chapter. It's like, I don't want to watch this thing. I want to watch a musical. I want to, you know, there's no pressure on it.

And we're using our entire cultural apparatus is built up to a point now where we only cover new things, but we cover the new things to debt. We rip them apart and we dissect them and we analyze every single point. piece of them. Yeah. They might not be deserving of it. Now we can actually have perspective to look at things with these critical mindset we have now. Yeah.

With those lists and stuff. I mean, even when you have like a best of list, like you can kind of, I love the idea of doing these like kind of like outside of the noise looking at these movies because of the you can so easily just be like Wikipedia. It sounds like this was really good. And like, oh, is that a good essay I should read? I'm going to put that in to save for later. And then you're like on to the next thing.

Exactly. I mean, I just deleted my like reading app on my phone because I'm like, I've saved for later so many. things that I never get to. And it's like, it gives me anxiety. Will Trump win? It's like, it's like, oh, Nate Silver, you know what's going. You're rascal.

But like, like, I do feel like, yeah, like being able to actually just like watch them and like, and like, and also kind of we've, but we've been finding out, we've recorded a couple episodes ahead of time is the one that's on the list is not always the best one. Like, you know, like, like the, like the Ginger Roger Red Astaire movie, it's like, okay, that one that we, that's on the list is called swing time. it has a very problematic blackfaked sequence, which we do talk about and kind of dissect a little bit too. But we found out like, oh, that one was just put into the Library of Congress.

So then that was automatically like, that's the good one. Yeah. So that one goes here. But meanwhile, the gay D'Vorce is a better movie hands down, but because it doesn't have like, oh, it wasn't in Library of Congress. So like we're also like... And very forward-looking with the D'Ferce being gay. Yeah.

I didn't realize that... Yeah, finally, yeah. Right out of the gate. But I think that's interesting, too, is like what we hold to be the best doesn't always have to be the best. And so we're trying to, like, tackle that as well. It's like Ben Hur is on that list.

I don't think Ben Hurd belongs on that list. I think Ben Hurd is interesting. I think the chariot scene is... There should almost be a list of, like, the 100 best sequences in show. Or influential, yeah. Yeah, I'd be curious to talk to you maybe once you're done the, like, run again,

because one of the things I always find, and it's almost... It's what I actually think of when people say, like, movie magic, which is usually attributed to like, oh, and then the lights go off and this happens. But why is Sunset Boulevard still so fucking good? Like, how is the Maltese falcons still?

Or sing it in the rain. Yeah, and these are just people with, you know, they made it in completely different way than they make movies now. Times are completely different. The context is completely different. And you still, you hit play, and you're just like, oh, my God,

this could be on tomorrow. Well, that's how I felt about watching Wizard of Oz because I've never watched it again critically. I mean, we're going to talk about it. I was like, this is great. And no, no doubt, it's a great movie. But it's like, it's a great movie. It's like, it's a great movie that can, and that's why kids are watching it now.

I felt the same way about Citizen King. In a weird way, Cis and Cain right now felt way, way of the now. Oh, yeah. Whoa. It's, yeah, I don't know what that is, and I don't know if it's like, I'm going back to what we were talking about before, these original ideas that are capturing themes that are forever universal. You know, it's not like, I don't, you know, like, Citizen Kane is speaking to power and the corruption of power and the want to be liked. and, you know, and Wizard of Oz is talking about this idea of, like, wanting to escape and what the fantasy, like, you know, these general themes. It's interesting to think about the idea of a canon in film, which for some reason we still think of as a relatively modern medium, even though now we have almost 100 years of history.

When you look at, like, the 19th century, a lot of books got published. Yeah. We read collectively in the canon, like 12 of them. Yeah. I'm sure there are many lost masterpieces and there are things that were forgotten unjustly and would be relevant today. But things that are universal tend to survive. And I think that there's a little bit of a difference now, and especially right now in the way that we talk about stuff,

because even when you bring up Wizard of Oz and you're like, okay, what are the themes of Wizard of Oz? What do you think of when you think of Wizard of Oz? You think of like, there's no place like home, or you think of these ideas of escape and return or whatever. If the Wizard of Oz came out today, would we be like, what's the true story of the wizard? And when we're like, is like the expanded Kansas universe.

Well, we did get that movie. But we talked. Yeah, that's great. Yes, right. That's true. I guess you're right. I mean, I guess, I guess, I think that we foreground. a lot of the Macuffins that those movies

maybe were like, nobody gives you shit about the Falcon. It's about the interaction between the two people, you know? Well, I think it's like we are looking at things too critically and in a way that I think what I love, and what I love about this podcast and what I love about what we're doing over there too is like things are meant to be discussed, right?

I really found myself enjoying Westworld after I was able to discuss it with people. What I loved about Lost was the conversation in the in-between time. And that's what I really like. And I think there's a judgment a lot of times to be like, watch it, don't watch it. You know, it's like, but not like discuss it because some things are better with a discussion than they are just isolated alone. You know, it's interesting.

And we talk about like this idea like the memeification of culture too. Things just get broken down. So you know like you're talking to me, but you don't know the movie that exists outside of that. Like my wife has never seen Star Wars movie besides Force Awakens. Yeah. She watched the first 15 minutes. the Star Wars and kind of liked it. A New Hope.

She knows like Luke on your father. So from moment one, she understands this part of culture, but not, it's like, that's almost unfair in a way. Like, you know, I knew where the drugs were hidden in French connection, and I don't know why. Right. Like, I was in the car. And I'm like, oh, but, wow, why don't I know that?

I don't even remember watching French characters, but I just knew, like, it's like these things that seep in and it's like, I don't know. Can the movie stand the test of time with that knowledge? Because a movie built just around a McGuffin is not a worthwhile movie. Well, yeah, it's a tricky thing. I think the best movies, I don't know. It's like, yeah, this is my issue a lot of the times with the culture of like trying to unpack too much stuff. Like Westworld is a great example.

Like I was talking about, I did this panel with the whole cast just when they did the season two premiere. And I was like, are you like, today said to Jonah Nolan and Lisa? I was like, are you guys just like done with people going like, is it on Mars? Because like they have not like linked that. That's not something that anything that the show is forwarding, but people are online, are spending hours. It's like, you're dissecting the wrong thing. Like, there's so much more here that we can get into. But we spend, like, so much more time.

Like, it's almost like we're trying to create a bigger thing to talk about because it's more catchy or something. It's like, I know, we're talking about, like, technology and people and what is human interact. You know, it's like, I don't know, but it's easier to be like, but is it Mars? Yeah, right. And I think that that dilutes actually what we're watching because then you're at the end you're like, oh, I'm kind of bummed out. And that's the reason why I love Atlanta so much, because Atlanta, like, is doing these, like, you have to talk about. Like, after Teddy Perkins is like, I need to, like, talk about Teddy Perkins for two hours.

Yeah. Because I want to understand. I want to read articles. Because I feel like I'm on Mars. Which is why I think it's a better show. Yeah. Because it is, it's like, it's not giving you a clear black and white answer. I don't know.

Like, I think that that's, and that's part of the fun of these things. Yeah. Paul, thank you so much for joining us today. I should, by the way, say the name of the podcast. Unspoled, right? When can people listen to it right now. You can listen to it right now. Wherever you're listening right now, the trailer is up and there'll be more episodes up.

So subscribe where you get your podcast. Yeah, see, yeah. Wherever you listen to podcast. We'll have to have you back very short. I would love to. Please, anytime. And we promise not to talk to your wife. Now for the story of a wealthy family who once lost everything, but had no choice but to stick together.

A lot has changed over the years, but they're still the same dysfunctional Bluths. Follow their new beginning as they try to convince the country that they're worthy of the OC's family of the year award paid for by the Bluth-Ostero company. It's Arrested Development Season 5 only on Netflix, May 29th. Today's episode of The Watch was also brought to you by Philo. Say goodbye to expensive TV bills. Philo is the simple, powerful app for watching TV. Get access to more than 35 of your favorite entertainment channels, like Investigation Discovery, AMC, A&E, Own BT Discovery, and more,

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