The Watch - ‘Pluribus’ Penultimate Episode and ‘Landman’ Episode 5

Episode Date: December 19, 2025

Chris and Andy talk about all of the shows that are coming up in January, including ‘The Pitt’ Season 2 and the long-awaited second season of ‘The Night Manager’ (3:44). Then they talk about the penultimate episode of ‘Pluribus’ Season 1 and Carol's arc throughout this season (25:27) before recapping the latest episode of ‘Landman’ (38:36). Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Producers: Kaya McMullen and Kai Grady Video Production: Jon Jones Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Stand up and walk now. Hello, and welcome to the watch. My name is Chris Ryan. and I am an editor at the ringer.com and joining me in the studio, the guest of honor at Sam Elliott's pirate dinner. It's Andy Greenwood! You ever attended a pirate dinner?

No, man. I can't wait to, though. If Ali Larder asked me to go to a pirate dinner, I would dress up wherever you want me to do. Would you dress up? You're not a really, traditionally a big dressing up guy. I'd be like the homie and master and commander

only has one hand. You didn't say a master and commander-themed dinner. That would be amazing. All the fellows show up. for a master commander theme dinner. Greenwald, great to see you today on the show, Pluribus episode 8, Landman, I think it's episode six,

but it was Sunday's episode called Pirate Dinner. We will get into some news at the top. Some programming reminders. Today, obviously, our show, then Monday we're going to do a special year in mailbag, which I'm very excited about. Then later next week, we will be releasing an episode time

to the Pluribus finale. That's some special guests. So we're very excited about that. And that will be. some X-Miss listening for folks. What's cool is we didn't get access to any of the creative team, but anybody can be an other from that show. That's right.

So we just grab some folks from the lobby. And then we're going to be off for that week in between kind of the after Christmas before or after a year's, and we'll be back on like the second or fourth, I believe it is. How are you feeling about, you know, we released our top 10, our year-end episode into the wild? How are you feeling about how it's been received? Do you feel like you've been heard?

Do you feel like... So I don't know if you probably didn't have a chance to tune into the Sure Thing rewatchables, which went live last night, Robert Rob Reiner. Bill opened the show by discussing watching us in bed while his wife played a video game on our phone.

I'm going to unpack that. We were in bed? No. He was watching the watch on his big screen television in bed and thought that we had too much opening banter but had really like some good ideas. But that's been the night. note for the last 13 or 14 years.

He was like, you guys, I needed to get to honorable mentions faster. That's baked in at this point. I know. I don't mean, look. Do we have to re-record? No. I enjoyed our best of the year. I think it was warmly received.

I want to know how you feel about this because I don't know how many more ways we can explain that Sam S. Mail is our friend and no longer wants to appear on these podcasts and that those things are both true. Yes. but maybe it's better to print the legend because we, I read texts from Sam at the beginning of the podcast. Oh, like, I think we should just put his face up there

with a Ghostbuster, like, slash through it. Because there's still comments like on our stuff being like, you are hiding from Sam or you fired him because he disagreed with you? I need you to accept the fact that a lot of the people who comment about work that we do do not actually engage with the work.

That's humbling to think of it. That's worry. You don't, wait. It's sort of like your relationship to television. And sports. And sports. And the entire NBA season. I'm not sure if it's been played or not.

They're game casting our pod. They just want to see the results. They don't really care about the process. So with they're looking at next-gen stats and they're saying that we've vamped? Like we're doing right now for like 20 minutes before we get into the content. The reason why I'm vamping with you right now,

the reason why, first of all, it's funky Thursdays. It's fun Thursdays. We still don't have the right name for that, but yeah. Casual Thursdays. days. Chaos menu. I don't know what to call it. The reason why I'm doing it is because we're not going to have the luxury of doing this in January. Because January, weirdly, strangely, is going to be among the busier months of our podcast and careers. Now, look, how we cover this is yet to be determined, but I just mean in terms of sheer volume of shows that we are really interested in and

could be interested in. I don't think I've ever seen a January like it. And I don't understand it. I don't, usually, like, you get like a rush of shows kind of in the spring to get under the Emmy wire, right? Like, we've had like crazy April Mays. But I don't remember coming out of a holiday season into January. And here's just a list of some of the shows that are premiering in January. Like within the first two weeks, right? And we're going to talk about some of these in detail. The Pit.

Season two. Season two. Industry season four. Yeah. His and hers on Netflix, which is a John Bernthal, Tessa Thompson thriller. Crazy. Riot Women, which is the new show from Sally Wayne Wright, incredible British writer who did Happy Valley.

Gangs of London season three. Okay, so it's ebbing a little bit. I'll give you a download on what happened on the first two seasons. Pony's, which is a new show on Peacock that I was kind of intrigued by. It looks good. Yeah, which is like a spy comedy. It's a period spy comedy with Haley Lou Richardson and Amelia Clark. Yeah.

And ponies is, uh, stands for persons of no interest. Yes. And I'm not one of them. I'm interested. I'm interested. I'm anti-pony for ponies. Uh, Night of the Seven Kingdoms. God damn it.

What? Shrinking is back, which we have not engaged within the past, but is a notable big Apple release to just be like, let's slide this in there. I just feel like I spend most of my life either in therapy or in Pasadena, and I don't need a show about both of those things. Honestly, that's probably the most, that's the best possible answer you could possibly give for why we don't engage a shrinking. I'm trying to be honest about things.

You know, like when the rehearsal came up on Monday and I was like, I can't get over the fact that someone took a picture of me thinking I was him. That's why I don't watch it. Like, simpler, simpler, simpler. Just be honest. Yeah, it's cringe and all that, but like, really. And then finally, season two, 10 years after season one of the night manager, which is Tom Hiddleston and Olivia Coleman in an extended LeCarrie universe piece about...

Your vigil paid off. that candle has been flickering on your mantle for 10 years. I now think we are no longer allowed to make fun of severance for taking too long. Oh. We've got to checkmated ourselves there. Because we're excited about this? Yes. Well, it was a long night to manage.

What of that group of shows do you think you're most excited to get that back? Well, I mean, the fact that industry in the pit, which are two of our favorite shows, full stop, are coming back within a week of each other. is diabolical. That's incredibly exciting. Yeah. And both weekly releases. And both weekly releases, which is good. The Pitt Season 2 full trailer was released.

I would say my main observation is it has more swagger than the first season trailer. Then the way that the show was presented, which I think I can't even really remember. But I do remember it being like, oh, it's just kind of weird. Is this kind of betwixt in between an HBO show and a Mac show? and is it going to be just like a straight procedural or what wasn't prepared for the you know the emotions it would stir and also just the excitement it would stir this one has a little bit of like

they did the gritty in the end zone you know what I mean? Yeah the coach didn't like that coach O'Connell was not happy about that yeah he didn't do you think that you would swagger a little bit if you had a like an undisputed touchdown would you have the presence of mind? I would be like Dan landing I would be like if I would like I would want all my guys to party

and celebrate. you know, I would run through the back of the ends. I'd run through the tape. You know what I mean? Like, then you just hand the ball to the ref. No showboating. That's classic white rider receiver shit right there. That's some real McCaffrey shit.

Yeah. Just like, here you go, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. It's expected that I score. It's what I'm paid to do. It's what my father told me every night before I fell asleep. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, well, the Pitt season one had to sell audiences on a lot, including just like a vibe.

Like, do you guys remember a show that litigously we're not, legally, we're not going to mention? maybe we could give you some more of that. And the fun of returning for a second season with the kind of success that it's had is remember these six people that you love, they're back. And you get to look at them more. And that's a winning strategy for a TV show.

Speaking of the severance delay or the night manager delay, like not just that we got the season two trailer, not just that we got the season two trailer two weeks, two and a half weeks before it returns, there's something in my brain that was like, are they giving away too much? They actually have all of this filmed? like I'm not used to such a full plate.

I thought they would just give a little like, beep, beep, Robbie's face. That was the teaser that they did like a couple of weeks ago and everything. But now they're like, oh, no, they shot this. Yeah. There's no mystery here. It's done. Yeah.

They're not like burning the midnight oil over at the studio. Yeah, I mean, it's kind of fascinating. This show, I think, will be one of the most anticipated releases of the year. I've imagined both critically and sort of like on that TV addict way. But also I think on a general, like, I watch four shows a year level. This is one of them. And, you know, this returning cast, we see a little bit of Langdon, we see Mel, we see all of our faves. I wonder, you know, how much turnover, though, will be on this cast?

Because they're going to obviously push the limits in terms of story about, like, what Dana and Ravi and these people can take. You've got people fancasting the pit night shift, you know, like the Hatticey version. Yeah, which I think people want. And the biggest tragedy for me is that Dr. Collins still has her. phone on Do Not Disturb. I know. I mean, she must be living a blissful life. Can I ask you something about putting your phone on Do Not Disturb?

Because I do it. And calls just blast through. I don't really get it. Maybe Kyya can help us on this. Like, I know lots of people who have their phone on Do Not Disturb and still have like a full texting life. What is the upside of this? Well, you can program it so some people can break through, right?

Let's talk to our youth correspondent. So the trick with Do Not Disturb is that if you call twice in a row, it breaks through. Oh, right. that real. Indeed. Oh my God. Okay. Well, who breaks through? Your kids? No, it's set to, they can always reach me. What about me? My kids can always reach me. One fun thing that my parents' relationship with telephones and all technology is still pretty Jurassic. So they do call multiple times and sometimes forget that they've just called or they're not aware that it's true. So one call from them normally involves three distinct ringing episodes.

So that's probably why I can't, in the spirit of the holidays, block them out completely. Right. I see. Okay. Yeah. Well, I'm always, because, you know, it got in my head a little bit that there was a time when you would awake to a number of spirited messages from me, alerting you to the events or trailers that drop between 1 and 6 a.m.

But now I'm a little bit, you know, I don't know your waking schedule. but I also don't want to because you don't put it on do enough stirb, I believe. I don't, I often will leave it outside of my room because now I kind of mechanically wake up at the same time every day, so I don't need an alarm,

but I do get disoriented if I don't see what time it is. I don't want to rush you. Yeah, you used to send me a lot of shit in the morning just like, well, let's look at the trades and I'm like, okay, I haven't had coffee yet. And also you pay Richard Rushfell to do that, Matt Bellany to give you the updates. I do.

I thought that I was providing a bespoke service. I wish. Okay. Yeah, but anyway, like... What else you got from this? Like, what's your power listing? What's your power rankings of interest level? You know, I'm looking...

I'm excited for this mixture of returning and new. So ponies and his and hers and riot women, I'm very curious about. This is a Bernthal television show. Yeah. This is made for you, maybe. Well, they all are. All those Bernthal shows are.

Did you see... Did I send you the video... I've talked about this before of Bernthal? there's a clip going around because it's from an old podcast that you do with Shaya, where Shia is like, I want to work at Home Depot, and Bernthal is just like, you think you can work in Home Depot. Do you really think you can do that? Do you go to Home Depot?

And Shai's like, that's my church, bro. That's where I go. I have mad projects. Whoa. It's so funny. That is, first of all, that is a similar tone to what you take with me. But Berndthal is like, you think you can work in Home Depot. That's something that you think you can do.

But one of my favorite things about this is John Bernthal, like us, went to a Quaker school. Like, I think he saw a different side of Quakerism, though. With the rough and tumble side? Well, I just don't know how, like, he's just too authentic. I'm not saying he's phony. He wouldn't, it wouldn't work for him to play these parts. That said, he is a suburban Jew who went to a Quaker school.

God, it'd be awesome to have a podcast with John Berthal called another side of Quakerism. And it's all about, like, the shit we got into while we were in Quaker school. Sometimes that light within can burn. Disrupting meeting for worship. Were you big stand up in meeting for worship guy? I don't think I ever did it. I don't think I ever did it. I mean, I also was of a generation that I don't think really prioritized meeting for worship

in the way that it should be. It would often be, this is a cool free period if we can get out of meeting early. Like, you know what I mean? Once meeting ends, there's like a little bit of playtime. So when people would stand up and start talking about this, their dead turtle, we would be like, fuck. Yeah, I mean, so for people who don't know, the hallmark of a Quaker education is once a week. You have a meeting for worship where you sit in quiet reflection.

Yeah. In the traditions of the Quaker religious ceremony, and then if you feel moved to speak, you could speak. But in retrospect, like, when you're little, like kids would stand up and be like, meeting is a time to think about God because they thought you were supposed to say that. Yeah. That's like the kindergarten move. But then...

Did you do that in kindergarten? I didn't. Okay. No. But, because I was like, question everything. I was like, what if Roger was. man Randy Savage fought Optimus Prime in a neutral sight. That's what I'm thinking about.

I'm just wondering if your school, because we didn't know each other then, we went to rival Quaker schools, is kind of like our version of Quakerism and John Bernthal's version of Quakerism. You went to a place in the suburbs. Why are you got to say it like that? I was just saying that's where it was located. Okay. It physically was located in the suburbs. I was on the parkway.

You were right in the shit. Right by Love Park, you know, me and Harmony Green. Just skiing. Talking about Transformers. talking about gummo. But did it get, like, I just feel like the rules were bent a little bit. So I remember in middle school when, like, Earth Day became a thing, who you'd have like themed meetings or someone would be like,

we're going to begin meeting for worship with a song about how the environment belongs to all of us. And they play like an E.D. Proquel song. And we'd all sit in silence being like, what the fuck are we listening to? And then I guess think about the whales for 40 minutes. And that feels a little directional. You know what I mean? Like, what if I didn't want to think about that? Oh, you'd like to have an action.

You like to have like. No, I didn't. Oh, you don't. You want to have it just be like, I'm thinking. thinking about Randall Cunningham right now. Yes, or will the city ever appreciate Scott Rowland or whatever was relevant at that era? Yeah, I mean, I kind of miss it, though. It was kind of nice.

Yeah. This was a period every week where you did nothing. It's like therapy, but you don't have to talk. Wow. So you'd fit right in with Shia at Home Depot. Yeah, I think I'm very excited. I was curious what your temp check on Night of the Seven Kingdoms is just because... I mean, you haven't dipped into these screeners, right?

You're not. I don't even know if we're even allowed to mention that we have them. Yes. I'll mention it. Okay. I don't care anymore. Yeah. Clip this, Kaya.

I don't care. I got screeners when I haven't watched them yet. Too busy. It's fine. Got nothing to hide. Well, I guess I'm open-minded about it because the entire pitch of the show is we understand it as non-book readers and non-house-of-R. We don't live in the house of our, but we're fans. Is that this is...

I summer there. Do you? Yeah. The summer you turn pretty. That this is not the same tone. It's a series of novellas that he wrote that I think are a little bit less high stakes is my understanding, but also quite good. And some of the best work he's done writing-wise. This is George Aramart.

Yes. And that these episodes, I believe, are only a half an hour long. Why? Don't quote you on that. I didn't know that. I'm fairly certain that they're like, it's like six, 30-minute hours. episodes. It's also a little bit more British style. Sounds great. I think.

Okay. I could be wrong. I'm very much looking forward to it. That sounds nice. This is a series that actually didn't get strip mind in the great streaming wars of the early part of this decade where people were taking Star Wars and Marvel and DC

and just being like, we got to get as much stuff as possible up on the services. Like Game of Thrones, for whatever you think about the ending of Game of Thrones and whatever you think of House of the Dragon has been relatively modest. Modest? And I think that the HBO team has been good stewards of making sure that whatever goes up is going to honor what they've accomplished so far. Okay. Yeah, I'm eager to see that. Did you, do you have any thoughts you'd like to share about the industry season four poster that was

just released? I'm just ready. Yeah, no, we're ready. We don't need trailers. We are on board, but I do really enjoy the real-time retconning of what the show is. That's about Yasmin and Harper. Well, which is awesome. Yeah. But I am a fan of the fact that the show took a very nonlinear path to maybe uncovering what it, quote, unquote, has always been. And also that your man, Kit Harrington, is just in the poster. Yeah. Because he's a pretty big draw of when he's on an HBO show.

We can get to Pluribus first. We could get to Landman first. Is there anything else? Did you want to talk Night Manager trailer? You wanted me to watch it? I thought it was quite good. I think that there are going to be many people. Some may be like, what a great excuse to revisit Night Manager, which I thought was an excellent series, if I remember correctly from 2015.

But that is a lifetime ago. It's hundreds of television shows ago. It's multiple vacations. That must be nice. Wow. You want to list your top three? Croatia? Wow.

15. Portugal 17. You were ahead of the crowds on that one. I did. I didn't get a golden passport there, but... You're not Sephardic. Is that a big thing over there? I believe Portuguese government was offering citizenship to people, to Jews of Sephardic descent, due to their treatment during the Inquisition period.

What that half was? Nah, you're stettled like me. Come on. You're not like... Why are you turning into Mel Brooks all of a sudden? Because that's what happens to all of us, inevitably. I just don't remember what happened on the night manager. I know that Hugh Lorry's Dickie Roper is an arms dealer, and I don't remember his fate.

I'm fairly certain he's not with us, but he's in this second season trailer of Night Manager. Here's my slant on this. Does it matter? Like, 10 years ago, it was a completely different show and a completely different television ecosystem and moment. It was on a completely different network. Totally different global chessboard.

The show is for AMC. Now it's an Amazon Prime. series. And I just don't get the sense from the trailer, which looks beautiful. It's full of many delightful British actors who we've seen in many other delightful things. And the first season, even for those who didn't watch it, know that it was primarily a show about linens and blousey suit jackets and hot temperatures. You still, you remember. And yeah, I remember how the way those shirts were fitting my guy Loki. De Becky. Looked great. And our guy DeBecky, she's amazing. I don't think matters. I think that what Amazon bought here and resurrected here is this is a Marvel star looking

cool in a action espionage show. And so let's go. So I don't think there's a big barrier to entry here. Hey, speaking of trailers, have you spent any time on your 4U tab on Twitter recently? I don't, I don't frequent Twitter anymore. You say that, but you do send me tweets. Only on Game Day. Okay. There's like a thing going on right now where everybody is like, oh my God, the do the do the doomsday trailer or whatever like all the Avengers trailers because something's coming and it's all like either AI or it's like vague posting where they're like you're never going to believe this and then it's like nobody can understand it um they're putting out are they really putting out four trailers in the over the course of the next couple weeks with avatar is that

true we don't know i mean i i do think does avatar need that much help well you're the guy that should i'm just i'm concerned trolling avatar yeah did you see the big jim cameron responsible responded to you? He didn't respond to me. He responded to a sentiment that I think some of his fans share. He also, okay, you're a very passive voice guy. You are literally the face of the opposite. You're like the QAnon shaman being like, you know, there was a gathering of ideas. There was. He perhaps is the figurehead of that gathering. Sure. There certainly were more than just one guy at the January 6th. Right. He just happened to be the one wearing the fucking animal pelts.

And that's you on Pandora being like this sucks, shut it down. First of all, everything needs all the help

it can get other than the Zootopia franchise apparently. And by the way, you're not ready for my takes on that movie.

Have you seen it? Of course, opening weekend. Two? Yes. Zootopia. I am not ready for your takes on that.

It sucked. Okay. Sorry to all of China was apparently boosting it with their collective wealth.

Did you see that movie? I did. I did. I did. Anyway, Avengers thing is, it does feel like it's all disinfo campaign because it's not just, I mean, you responsibly source your information from the For You tab on X, whereas I just get fed a steady stream of slop on Facebook. And by the way, one thing that I don't think you're aware of, but definitely like your one uncle with the email account is aware of is how the slop. the slop is fed to us now on Facebook, which is not just like, you know, fake news.

It's, I'm sure, AI generated content that takes like a moment, which is just like, I don't know, what's an example of like, Taryn Killam leaving Saturday Night Live? And they were like, it's like, quote, guys, I'm done. The room at Studio 8G was chilled by Taryn Killam's announcement, but they knew the show they loved would no longer be the same. That's what it does for like the most banal celebrity information. Oh, because they're like make this

the most like sticky kind of engagement. And one of the things I'm getting is just like beat by beat breakdowns of completely invented trailers for a movie. Yes. Yes. So I saw, I watched one that was it was like multiple people from Avengers

but then also Sigourney Weaver's Ripley and a predator. You wrote this. Like, you're more interested now. Totally. The Disney team is coming together. Totally. Like, what, uh,

do you feel like Avengers Doomsday is a distressed asset right now? Um, I think it's in this utopia zone. I think it's going to be big in China. I think it's going to be big, but I think it's going to be, I think they need to end this. And I think that they, I think that this is like, steering into the skid

where they're like, you know what, the whole Kang thing didn't work out. Let's actually put good money on top of bad money. Sure. End this. Get back in people's faces with like these characters and some of these other things. But honestly,

I don't really know what's happening. You know what I mean? Like, I don't really know what's happening with it. I assume they're going to be building towards secret wars. Yeah, I think the problem... But it's going to be weird if people are like, Rebecca Remain?

Like, is that what we did? No, that's what I mean. There's no story here. So these movies have to do so many things and potentially impossible things, but one of which is make a case for its own existence and story momentum because it's not really building on anything. Like even the most optimistic among us like me who... You are very optimistic. About this, I liked Thunderbolts and I liked Fantastic Four. You are kind of weird that way.

I believe I'm in the minority. And so you see these set images and it's just like, oh man. I just love Reed Richards and Jay Kelly. That's just who I am. What's wrong with that? But it's just like Shang-Chi. and Evan Moss Bacharach, the one's a character, one's an actor, sorry,

and Ben Grimm paling around in London, and I'm like, I see the vision? Sure. But I don't know if I see the... So maybe Avatar's helping them, I don't know. Yeah, no, that actually, that's a good zag. Do you like that take? Yeah, it's actually the Navier helping the Avengers.

Let's do Pluribus first. Before Landman? Okay. We can do whichever one you want. All right. Let's do Pluribus first. I weirdly think I have more to say about Landman. Okay, me too. But I've also, like, with pluribus, I think in the last couple of weeks, like,

I certainly, obviously, I think it's one of the best shows of the year. I think the second half of this season has been remarkable. So to talk about this episode, episode eight, eight, you have been, and I love the show as well, you have been much more patient, I would say, and dialed in to the, particular rhythms of this show. Yeah. Maybe even more so than I,

and I'm a big advocate of Jay Kelly and other slow food entertainments. Yeah. So this episode, which really, as it often does, like with a fine filigree, articulates Carol's changing relationship with the situation, with the collective, with the others,

with Sosha specifically. What was it about this journey with her in this episode that grabbed you? And I'm not trying to be like, Concern trolling. Like, I really enjoyed this episode, but I'm curious where you are with it. I just don't really see TV that is delving into these kinds of emotional realities, even if the reality of the show is almost science fictional.

And so the depiction of loneliness and the depiction of longing and the depiction of needing companionship is so incredible. And I think that sometimes there are shows that are challenging, and I'm like, well, you just don't get it. I know that this is challenging and I know that there is a kind of time lapse thing going on here and a focus on things that most TV shows and most movies even would be like, this happens in between the cuts, you know, like, or this is what would happen as we transition from interior or exterior or from this to two days later when something else important happens. And instead, this is very carefully choosing certain days in this woman's life

and showing almost all of it. And I think the cumulative effect that I am feeling is that all of that stuff, all that work, every time you listen to the voicemail message, every time you've watched her do something domestic inside of her house, is like piling up so that breakthrough moments, like the diner scene, which I think is amazing.

The idea that somebody would do something so kind, but also so creepy. Yeah. and that she would feel both of those things at the same time and that it would mean so much to her and it's the happiest we've ever seen Carol. Yeah. And then immediately she becomes incredibly alarmed at that, you know?

Yeah, there's something, the show works on so many levels and one of the things that I think makes it ultimately successful is that you can look at it in the macro of what's happened to the world and what are these massive swings in our society or specifically, that have happened to us recently that we're using as mirrors to reflect what's happening in the show. but then also like the emotional minutia of what's happening with Carol. And the diner scene reminded me of a moment also in the episode when she's like, would you like me to, after she slept over in the hockey arena or whatever that is.

And she's like, would you like me to make you breakfast? And she's like, no, no, you don't have to do that. It's okay. And there's this idea of asking people for things, which for some of us is hard to do. And then the extra level of it where it's literally nothing to them, whether it's power, washing her street, whether it's making her breakfast, whether it's having sex with her, or whether it's spending untold weeks to completely, creepily recreate a long, shuddered, long burned business.

Clearly there are people who don't have that kind of moral quandary like Diabate, and then Carol is somewhere in the middle of it. And it's interesting to watch someone who has issues, but then also some sense of Like she doesn't actually want that kind of labor done for her, but she also doesn't think she deserves it. And so it's a psychological story at the same time that it is a societal story. Yeah, and I think I always looked at Menuso's character

as this weather system coming in and changing things. But I keep going back to that introduction of his character, or when his character leaves Paraguay for the first time and pushes his car out of the garage and his mother shows up and he's like, you're not my mother. my mother was a bitch, you know. You know, the pain that he carries with him from the before times is similar to whatever psychological scar tissue makes it so that Carol can't just be in her own skin and enjoy things

when they're being brought to her, like anything in the world to make you happy. And she's like, no, I am the unhappiest person. And knowing that these two people are on this collision course and what's going to happen is like really compelling to me. Where are you on the, again, one of the reasons we like the show is because of the room for spirited debate about the intentions behind things. We were talking about in the previous episode like Minuso's waving. Is he waving in surrender? Is he waving for help?

Carol's softening towards Zosha and then ultimately like giving in to Zosha. How much of that do you think is, well, what do you think her reasoning is? How much of it is the loneliness of the loneliness of the, of. the 40 days of isolation, just reaching a breaking point and she'll take whatever companionship she can get? Or is it she's feeling something new that she didn't feel before? And there's no right answer. I'm just curious where you think, because one of the fun things about watching Carol's OSHA scenes are what else is happening behind the scenes. Right. And we don't really necessarily see that other than Menusus's plot. Like, you know, all the like kind of exposition that

we've gotten has usually come from like Diabate or something like, because it's only been recently that I I think Carol has started to take the easy road to finding things out. Like, you know, she's done... Just asking. You know, she's basically done medical procedures on people and flown across the globe. But, you know, she's just asking. I think that, you know, because it's in seven is when she's kind of like she's treating herself, right?

Like, that's the one where she's kind of gone on the spa day. That's when she's solo, but it starts hopeful and then it ends pretty bleakly. Pretty bleak. Because you can only really do that. for so long. Like there's the lie that we tell ourselves that if I just had time to myself, I would do all this stuff. Are you thinking about my phone calls from my week seven of me in London recently? Well, no, but I'm just thinking about like, I mean, I think I talked about this, but like when my wife has been out of town like this past year and I'm like, I'm going to fucking

watch every spaghetti Western. And then it's like, oh, God, like after five nights of this, it's a lot. Yeah, it's a lot. And you really want to start having human contact again. and so I think that there's something kind of profound about the arc of her it can be both things right like she can be like I've I've taken to life where everything I've ever wanted is right at my fingertips but I can't enjoy it if I'm doing it alone yeah and I think it's interesting to note that the others are changing slightly they're learning too the crocassine

they make a joke. They dunk on her a little bit. That seems new, right, from the monolithic voice, a completely credulous voice that they spoke with earlier in the season. Do we think that that is a benevolent evolution? Or do we think that that is, like everything,

a kind of long-term manipulation? Sure. Of being a little more old-school, human for Carol to open up herself to whatever's going to come next. Do you feel like you're like six degrees cooler on this whole thing than I am? No, it's weird. I think that that's how I'm presenting it. But I think that what I am, I guess the answer is that I am, but I think that I have,

like I said last week, like I've done this before where there was an entire season of Better Call Saul that I was pretty mid on. Me too. And in the fullness of time and in the fullness of what they were moving towards, I was grateful for the time spent in the experience, and it would have been lesser without it. So I think I'm just trying to stay. I also think our brains are different now than they were when Better Call Saul was on. Sure.

I'm learning a lot about the SNL cast Exodus on my Facebook feed. I can't believe how dramatic it was. A xenomorph is in Doomsday. So it's incredible that honestly this show is getting this much of our attention. Yeah. But yeah, but there's also some of the joys of the show to me still remain in the like, man, if it ain't broke, this good old-fashioned TV machine can still really deliver when you do it right. For example, Carol sends out the message of we have to defeat these things when she is in one state of mind. And then 50 plus days pass during which time she has a complete breakdown and claws herself back together and open. opens her heart to, if not love, then the status quo. Yeah. And that's when the message is answered.

Like, that's just, as my friend in the writer's room in London would say, that's just good telly. Well, and I love the little flashes of like, yeah, or we're kind of better at doing this than every. Like, like, was just saying you're going to have a visitor. Yeah. It's just like, I think I'm going to remember that line for a really long time. you know, like, and just that moment and that end of their, their sort of reverie and, and their moment of kind of honeymoon period being over. I wish you could program Postmates to alert you that way.

You could have a visitor. But the visitors got soup. It still is very, very funny to me that for all the ways we talk about the show and all the discourse surrounding the show, the fact that Vince Gilligan has made a show about a writer who is forced to generate. some crap that she doesn't necessarily believe in and carries not just one whiteboard, but a nonsense whiteboard than a secret better version whiteboard is very, very on the nose and funny. And I just, I just really enjoy the visual of like she's actually kind of working on both,

but it's unclear which has her heart. Yeah. And as this episode goes on, like, do you think that she's adding to the truth about them board for any I think that's how she understands the world is to document it. Document the rules to lay out the structure of it. To break story. Yeah, to break story.

I mean, that scene in the diner keeps coming, I keep coming back to it because this season and this show, there's been several examples of invasion. You know, there's the invasion in the beginning that feels like invasions of body snatchers. There is the invasive technique that they would use to harvest her stem cells

and that they say they cannot do without her consent. Right. And then there is the invasion of her memory that takes place. And the fact that they can recreate this down to the waitress

coming back and Carol's questions being like, where was she? And like, what did you do to her? You know, and it's like, well, yeah, she was in Miami. She was a cosmetologist. And she's like, but you've just like moved her out here for this cosplay diorama

of my past, but also I love living. in this. And yeah, so I find that this show is just so thought-provoking in a really cool way. Where, if given the opportunity, what now shuttered businesses would you like the others to lovingly recreate for you? Because that cafe you liked in Back Bay is still there, right? The breakfast place. I don't, Charlie's is still there. Okay. I mean, some of the records, I mean, I would like them to reopen Kim's in like perfect, you know, like three floors vinyl

DVD video. Has Alex Ross Perry not done that? No, I mean, he's like, he's got, like he had to make the documentary about all the inventory. But I think Kim's in New York would be mine. It would be yours. I mean, in Great Lakes. Yeah. It would be nice. Yeah.

High-fi bar, like the bars of our youth, you know, where our sobriety is etched into the... All of those are gone, huh? Yeah. Wow. How do you feel about that? Well, I thought it's a bummer. I don't want to live in Brooklyn, but like, I feel bad, yeah. All right, should we move on to Landman?

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the free painting session that is Landman. And I appreciate both. You know, I think we can appreciate both styles of art, both styles of TV. What did you think of this episode? I found, okay, I have a lot of specific things to discuss the episode, but I did note, and I, look, this is, maybe I'm a victim of my own success here

because there's no question that the show is more normal this year. Yes. There's no question. And I have, over the course of our, conversation over it. You did watch the scene where Ali Larder celebrates her own birthday even though it's not her birthday at the old person's home. And receives only sex toys? Yes.

I did. Super normal. I did. It's still in the Landman universe. Okay. Like it is still within that. But like it's here's a comparison. It's a little bit like the difference between the Sorkin West Wing and the John Wells

West Wing. You know, where like some of the I wrote this entire season while on a crackbender, uh, poetry has been turned into more prosaic. So there are my feeling about the show is not spiking

like Aaron Sorkin's EKG while writing season one of the West Wing. I'm fine with it more. I don't know if that's healthier or not. Well, the highs maybe not are as high but the lows are certainly not as low. For sure. I think the last two episodes I sort of felt

the non-traditional pacing of the season and how many times we've done the same scene basically over and over again before. And it was really only at the end of this episode or towards the end of this episode that I feel like there was actually like, okay, now the dynamic between Cammy and Tommy has changed

or the dynamic between Cammy and Danny and Tommy has changed. Or Rebecca is now operating within the context of the company rather than having seen scenes separate from the entire cast. So much real estate has been given over to trying to normalize things, so it runs on time. Right? This entire, the pacing of this show is so odd. Like, this entire season could have been a webisode and then it could have started.

To your point, like, sometimes being kind of reasonable doesn't suit the nature of the show. For example, there is, there's an A-B of two legal scenes involving Rebecca. One involves Nate, which was cute, because I haven't seen him outside. of the house, I think, in the entire run of the show. It's been Midland only. And the first version of the scene, Rebecca comes in and absolutely

eviscerates a table full of dopes. Yes. The same scene happens with really no... And we've been trained as an audience to be like, oh, Rebecca's about to hand these guys their asses. But now when Nate slash Neal shows up, suddenly these guys

find their mojo, and it's the same scene, only now the guy has are like, actually, we're going to tell you how it goes. Yeah. Which I don't think that's how law works. If that's how law works, better call Saul would have been a limited series. What do you think you understand more? Oh, I like this question.

What Monty was doing with $400 million. Right, sure, moving it around, yeah. What Cooper was doing with the six wells that all struck it rich, but somehow he doesn't have any money to pay anyone for, and now Tommy has just taken over his wells, but to protect him from the cartel. But he's also getting into business with the cartel. So Tommy is like, I will,

MTEX will buy your cartel owned and operated wells, but I draw the line at the cartel funding any other well. Yes. That's a difficult moral position to stake out. I don't even, but I don't even understand in terms of like the deal, like the Sun Risa, the Danny's company. Sorry, just gave coupon. alone that he never checked for or like never

cashed the check or there is $40 million in an account somewhere that just that part of it. It's very problematic because what again the show is I it seems like it is set to really begin with season three because the amount of work to get here is so extreme yeah so in season one Cooper is a iconoclastic individualistic genius who sees the game board in a way no one else does. He sees widows where no one else does. He sure does. He's like he's, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he's, he, he, he

was the underutilized asset. And he, he, he needed to be staked to do any of this. Instantly, not only is he put the thing in the ground, and the oil comes out. It seemed like he had basically found like a cheap way to look for oil and hit it like harder than anyone thought

anyone could do, yes. And now... Now they've reconed in that he had financing for this. And that he's a moron who doesn't read the fine print. Well, here's my thing with that is this is kind of like

also ties into the Ariana part where it almost is like it's not like they focus group it or test it, but it's almost like, what if they broke up? I like those two kids together. You know, and so they bring, and now we've kind of had... Not only, let's bring them back together,

let's have her say, I don't believe in divorce, and we will never, ever break up, so buckle up. Yes. He did lead to a really fantastic hashtag girl dad scene. It's just been a banner year for them across the board, one battle after another, Jay Kelly, and the time when

Cooper drives, I did the math, eight and a half hours to corporates, Christy to have a McLeob Ultra with a man who says, I don't really care what she does, and you don't seem like a violent man, but if you touch her, I will rip you limb from limb. You know what?

And then, by the way, the beds made stay of the night. One of the hallmarks of season two is that people are driving when they used to fly. Here's my, thank you for this. This is my... Tommy even says it in this episode

where I feel bad that we're so much more articulate about Landman, maybe than Pluribus, but Tommy even says it in this episode where he's like, well, my day is, I got to get in a car, drive three hours to have a two-minute conversation, drive another three hours to have like another conversation, and then get home in time for a pirate dinner.

The show is a closed loop. The show is an argument only for itself. The only reason why we need to drill for this much oil is to fuel the gasoline in the trucks of the characters who work in the oil industry. That's it. No one else drives this much. low-key landman is the most strident argument

I've ever seen on a mass media platform for high-speed rail. Yes. Or private planes. There is a strong argument to be made that with the proper investment in infrastructure all of their lives would be better. But there's that scene where Tommy's like, you guys fly back to Midland

and I'll see you at dinner, but I'm going to drive my truck because this M-Tex pickup couldn't possibly be left in Dallas and maybe driven down by like... Or flown back to get it again. Or whatever, yeah. Also, I like to have some time to myself.

Also, I will do a five-hour drive in 315, leaving myself enough time to stop for a couple cold ones. And a very special kind of cold one, because we've now got some competition in the Michael's Ultra Competition. It's Olympics. Troy Aikman's eight beer, which we are informed Tommy can either taste nor smell.

This is a new wrinkle that we've learned this many episodes in. Well, this feels like Aikman's beer, either Aikman and Taylor Sheridan are friends, and Taylor Sheridan's like, we're going to prop up your brewery. Yeah. Or Taylor Sheridan hates this beer, so he's like, I will feature it.

But my main character, this is the first time we've ever heard that he can't smell or taste, correct? It does help me understand his response to the truffle dinner. And also the fact that he just smokes inside with those windows rolled up all the time. And that for breakfast,

as a 70-year-old stressed man, he orders four eggs and fried eggs and a side of sausage and then eats none of it. Okay. This brings me to the most important question I had for you on this entire podcast. Thank you. Okay. In this episode, I noticed for the first time that across the street from the patch, our beloved 24-hour bar grill, that there is another restaurant.

Marjorie's or something. J.D.'s burgers. Oh, what was Marjorie's? Oh, maybe there's Marjorie's, too. I think that's probably a wine bar, small plates. First of all, what do you think it's like for the restaurant across the street from the patch? Because the patch seems like it's like Max and Hellens. They've got like a two and a half hour wait.

It's like, it's just crazy. But if you're just like, hey, but you guys, we have a seat right now. I mean, there's not, there's a proud tradition of this, right? There's always the like, the tourists might get tired one block too soon. Yes. And wander in here. Yes. I don't know. It's also possible that it's kind of like a, what's it called? J.D.'s?

I think it's J.D.'s hamburgers, yeah. So maybe J.D. is like, you know, he's like the Una Pizza Napolitana guy, right? Like, he's just like, every day I make 50 burgers, and there's no other nonsense here. And don't come in here asking for a full bar. Don't come in here asking for a chicken fried anything. Don't come in here. Sure. I have a burger. There's a burger or there's a cheeseburger, too. and you'll fucking like it. And I'm interested in that.

Yeah, and these guys want more of a cheesecake factory. Like, you can get breakfast for dinner. You can get dinner for breakfast. And we know you work 24 hours a day. I do think top jaw, Permian Basin would do well. I think it would be brief. I think it would be brief. What did you make of Sam Elliott's scene work with Audrey McGrath?

Daughter of Tim McGrath and Faith Hill? Pretty weird. Kind of weird. But I think. think it's just like he just wanted to have a conversation. Yeah. But they're trying to have it both ways with Sam Elliott. It's still a very attractive man. But he mentions that he's 80 in the show. I think I kind of want to Tommy to just pick him up and bring him along with him all day. Like I'd seem like that would be the most obvious thing. I do actually wonder whether Sam Elliott is like,

I don't want to be in a car all day? I have to be, I can sit or I can get up twice. Or do you think it's an insurance issue where they're like, we cannot underwrite a show in which a 70-year-old man is driving an 80-year-old man. All respect, I'm just saying. We've got to deal with the facts. We're closer to being 70 and 80 than we are being 20 and 30. Why do you have to say this?

Kai is right here. Like, come on. Who wins when you say that? What is the upside? Taylor Sheridan does. I mean, we're still talking about his show. We can wrap it up there. Do you think you'd do well

with this kind of driving culture? I'd like to think so. But I think I would do okay if it was flat roads. and not a lot of traffic. I noted with interest that Tommy drives into the Dallas-Fort Worth area with literally not another car on the road. Yeah.

Which... It's very pluribus. As was Cooper driving listening to language tapes. I was getting that TV drift where I'm like, oh, this is very Minusos right now. I just think these guys got to make some phone calls, you know? You do not have to drive to corporate. We shouldn't mock this because... And it was also like, Ariano was like, he's like, yeah, she doesn't have to ask me for permission.

She knows that. and she just wanted to see if you would do it. I'd be pretty pissed. I would be so pissed. I'm pissed if someone, like if I have to pick up something at the dry cleaner, let alone drive eight hours to talk to a guy with a killer dog who doesn't want to talk to me.

Right. That said, we should be respectful because if anyone like this is out there living like this, podcast must be as important as gasoline. I would hope so. That is a lot. And they don't even have air conditioning in these trucks.

You notice that? They're all sweating. Well, it's because I think it's supposed to be summer in Texas, because otherwise, why is an Ainsley ever at school? Well, she's too old. I saw an interview on Instagram with Michelle Randolph who plays Ainsley, and they were like, what are you hoping for for Ainsley in the future? And she was like, I'd love it if she grew up a little bit.

She was just like, I'd love to, yeah. Yeah. She's not old enough to see the presents her mom got at the sex toy party. Oh, God. You know what? I feel like I enjoyed this episode more than you did. I did enjoy it. I also enjoyed Andy Garcia draining five straight putts in his office.

Were those challenging putts to make? No, I mean, just it's steady nerves. You just have to really concentrate. You know, if Billy Bob Thornton was yelling at me, I don't think I would be so in the cup like that. It's just, it's honestly exhausting, where it's just like, this episode, they're friends. This episode, Tommy's like, I don't want your fucking money.

Yeah, our farm is going to be friends, but not us. I don't know why I just did Will Ferrell from Eastbound. I know why you did. because we wish we were talking about that instead. Let's wrap it up. All right. Long day of potting for us. We'll have some really cool stuff on Pluribus for you guys next week,

as well as a mailbag on Monday. Did you know that you can't be landman and a president? That was the one piece of information we got this episode. Why not? That's what Nate says to him. It reminded me of like... Oh, but did you mean that emotionally or you can't actually have both jobs? It just reminded me of like the Tracy Jordan movies from 30 Rock.

It's like black cop, white cop. It's like Landman president. How could one man be by? Both. Thanks to Kai. Thanks to Kai. And we will be back on Monday with our mailbag. Putting off replacing your window treatments because you think it's complicated?

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