The Watch - Recommending ‘Howards End’ and John Mulaney’s New Stand-up Special, Plus Deon Taylor, Director of ‘Traffik’ | The Watch (Ep. 254)

Episode Date: May 4, 2018

The Ringer’s Chris Ryan is joined by fellow Ringer staffers Alison Herman and Amanda Dobbins to discuss their favorite things on TV, including John Mulaney's stand-up special (3:55) and ‘Howards End’ (22:49). Later, filmmaker Deon Taylor joins Chris to discuss the making of his new movie, 'Traffik' (34:30). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, everybody. Welcome to today's episode of The Watch. It's Chris. No Angie today. So I had three separate guests on. First, I'm joined by Alison Herman to talk about John Mullaney's new Netflix special Kid Gorgeous at Radio City Music Hall and also to discuss a little bit of one of my personal favorites and favorites for anybody who calls themselves a Bransky, The Good Fight on CBS All Access. And then I was joined by Amanda Dobbins to talk about probably one of the revelations of the TV year and it's basically the most underrated show of the year if you ask me it's howard's end which is currently airing on stars or was airing on stars i believe it wrapped up its four episode run um this past sunday it's written by kenneth lonergan who wrote manchester by the sea who wrote margaret who wrote

you can count on me as an accomplished playwright obviously so people might be familiar with his work stateside but he wrote this uh adaptation of em forrester's classic novel uh howards end and it starts halyat who you may have seen as Agent Carter and some of the Avengers stuff, Captain America stuff, and also in Be Right Back, the Black Mirror episode. Guys, this show is an absolute miracle. I can't recommend it more highly. So I talked to Amanda about that. Before we get started, I want to tell you a little bit about some stuff happening on the ringer.

Related to TV, I'd love for you to check out Alice and Herman's Malaney feature, which is sort of the basis of our conversation. She talked to John Malaney a couple weeks back and talked to him about his special. That went up earlier this week. We still have tons of Infinity War stuff, and you can read Micah Peters' piece on Thanos, which I thought was really good. But there's no end.

There's almost infinite amount of Infinity War stuff to read. Podcast-wise, please check out the Recapables, Atlanta, and Westworld The Recapables. The West World Recapables is hosted by David Shoemaker, and you can listen to those Sunday night after Westworld airs. And Recapables, Atlanta is hosted by Amanda Dobbins, our guests today on the watch. And that's a great podcast as Atlanta wraps up.

it's second season. Please also subscribe and listen to the Dave Chang Show. It is David Chang's podcast with the Ringer Podcast Network. The first episode documented the opening of the Los Angeles restaurant, Major Domo. It's a great podcast for you if you care about food, business, art, anything. Really, it's like all these different things converging in one podcast, and that's a really excellent new show that we're super excited about. So please subscribe to the Dave Chang Show.

Today, also I am joined by Dion Taylor. a really interesting filmmaker who made a movie called Traffic that came out a few weeks back starring Paula Patton and Omar Epps. It is a social twist on the, like a thriller. It's hard to explain this movie because it has a couple of different layers.

On one hand, it's basically a, we're being hunted by scary people, Hitchcock movie. On the other hand, it's kind of got a different message about human trafficking and sort of the darkness that lies just beyond the suburban American dream. So Dion came in. He talked to us a little bit about traffic and a little bit about future projects that he might have in store. So that was a cool conversation.

You should stick around for that at the end of the show. Before I let you guys go, from Monday's show, expect a little conversation about Westworld. I'm sure Andy has completely changed his mind about that show and thinks it's one of the great works of art in the 21st century, so we'll get to that. We've also got only a couple episodes of Barry left. This show is just getting better and better. So if you want, catch up on Barry, and also, if you haven't had a chance, go back and listen to our interview with Henry Winkler and Bill Hader from a couple weeks ago.

And we'll also talk about Atlanta. So how about that? Barry, Atlanta, Westworld on Monday. Lots of good stuff coming up. Countdown to Solo begins. I refuse to sell my Alden-Arenreichs stock. So take that world. Without further ado, here is Allison Herman to talk about Malaney and the Good Fight.

I need sports to have to clear the room. Stand up and walk. Now. Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at the ringer.com. And joining me in the studio today, no Andy. So we have Allison Herman, the ringer's TV critic.

How are you doing, Allison? I'm doing great. How are you? Allison, there's a bunch of stuff I wanted to talk to you about, especially good fight because I feel like enough people are watching the good fight to get at a season three renewal. So thank God for that. Yeah, CBS is really committed to making all access happen no matter what the cost.

Yeah. And I also just can't. Sometimes when I watch the good fight, I see all the actors who were appearing on and I'm like, this must cost a billion dollars, right? Alan Alda? And maybe I have to adjust my idea of what Alan Alda costs. My new conspiracy theory is that the Kings just show up in an unmarked van at the cast entrance to every off-Broadway theater and are like, get in here, we're going to fill a cup.

Even if it's just Alan Alda going to do a matinee. They're just like, Alda, come on. So we're going to talk a little about Good Fight. Amanda Dobbins is going to join me later to talk about Howard's End. But first I wanted to talk to you, Allison. about Netflix comedy. And specifically John Malaney, because you wrote a great

John Malaney feature this week on The Rigger.com that people should check out. Thank you. And I watched Kid Gorgeous this week on Netflix. It came out. Kid Gorgeous at Radio City Music Hall is the full title. Kid Kid Kid at Radio City Music Hall.

And I, I, I, LOL'd. I like, LOL to the point of tears. Did you all your AO? I did. It was just like, I think I was, I was not super familiar with Malini stand-up. And I read your piece and I was, really intrigued by one thing that you particularly focused on in there,

which was this idea of technique and that Malini was obsessed with technique. So for people who are not maybe stand-up aficionados, can you talk a little bit about what technique means specifically to Malini, but generally in stand-up? Sure. I think Malini's stand-up is sort of instructive to look at in terms of what he doesn't do. So I think the archetype of the modern stand-up is, for better or for worse, maybe established by someone like Louis C.K.

Or Mark Marin where... Confessional. Very confessional. I could literally tell you ongoing problems in Mark Merrin's current relationship based on the first 10 minutes of his podcast. I know so much about Eastside Los Angeles real estate right now. Yeah, I know so much about the layout of his garage

and how it's changed. But, you know, I think there's this sort of cliche that you take your experience and you channel it into what you say on stage and that really helps you. Malini is not confessional at all. He's not very personal. He uses his wife and his father as recurring characters

in his stand-up, but they're very clearly like characters with very specific attributes that he plays up. He's also not a particularly political comic. He's not someone like Samantha B who's really been lifted up in the last couple of years

because they're really good in putting their finger on something that a lot of people are feeling right now. And in a way, it's almost weird. Like, I would probably call him the best stand-up working right. now, comedy is subjective. I realize it's a somewhat controversial statement. I think maybe in their peak someone like Chris Rock or Dave Chappelle was probably better. But in terms of like who is putting

out stuff right now and at what quality is that stuff, I really think he is at the top of his game. But I wouldn't call him influential necessarily because he's so old school in his presentation. Like he literally wears a suit on stage. He wanted to do a special Radio City Music Hall. And the content of his jokes is very Seinfeldian observational. It's like let me pick up on this very specific thing and the thing that makes it good is my insight and the effort I put into it and the specific phrasing that I'm able to do because I have a brain that's really good at this stuff. And it's really interesting to see how he doesn't draw on anything except his own comedic talent. I guess I'm a little bit more aware of things like that now after years of reading split cider and like the sort of the art of comedy

has become such a huge thing where it's like anything from the aristocrats to just comedians and cars getting coffee. I feel like we talk a lot about the mechanics of comedy and I felt like watching Malaney

I noticed certain things not necessarily about Joe construction which is still a little bit mysterious to me but about a performance that seemed incredibly studied. Now you've seen, you'd seen the material that's in the Netflix special

multiple times. You were telling me earlier in different capacities. Did you notice anything that rang true when you saw it in Los Angeles that then didn't wind up in the special or is different in the special? Were there any editing processes that you seem to witness him go through to get to the final product? Yeah, it's funny. There was there were definitely like new bits in the special like the password thing that he did on SNL. I remember seeing on SNL and being like, oh, like that's new and then it ends up in the

special. I saw him do a full hour at Orphium that was like a full produced thing. And actually a couple years ago when he was just like, you know, warming up, getting his reps in. In Los Angeles, I saw him at a show called The Meltdown that's no longer around, but I saw him do like a quick 20. And that performance was actually really interesting because he told a really interesting story about how before his pilot didn't get picked up by NBC, he was waiting for it to get picked up by Fox. And he took a job writing for an NFL commercial or like a video game commercial, which is really funny because-Madden or something like that. Yeah, like, yes, it was Madden.

And it was one of those things where, like, the joke is very obvious. He's this, like, skinny guy who's clearly not that into sports and makes a lot of jokes about how he's not conventionally masculine. Right. But one of the people who was on set there was Ray Lewis. Oh, my God. And he didn't know who Ray Lewis was. And he said, for those of you who don't know, and that just that line alone got a laugh.

But he said, like, in 2000, Ray Lewis and a couple buddies were within murdering distance of a man who was murdered. Right? I saw that two years ago, and I still remember that exact combination of words because it's so good. Yeah. Like, he's just so good at, you know, you say you don't notice technique, but I feel like I almost can't help but notice it. It's also very, his stand-up is very written. Like, as a writer, I feel like I can see his jokes, like, appear on the page as I hear them. And there are certain comedians. I think John Erley and Cape Berlin are a lot like this. But if you, if you see their material written down, it's not necessarily that funny. It's like. It's all in the performance. It's all in how they. They present it. They're from search party in case people, you can see their work in search party.

And 555 on Vimeo. Okay. And Malini, I don't want to discount his performance. He's got great stage presence, but a lot of his material, like, is crafted in the actual phrasing and combination of words. And I feel like that's kind of catnip to someone like me who writes for a living. But I also think it, you can see his talent that way. So he's a little bit of a formalist.

Totally. So he's like taking a certain thing. I mean, he's like trying to add like this kind of almost invisible. ink to the way that we would normally perceive a joke. He's doing it, but he's just doing it at a slightly higher level that maybe we're used to with your standard stand-up. Yeah, and he doesn't lean on certain, I wouldn't call them crutches, but he doesn't pull from like his own biography.

And part of that is, you know, he grew up comfortably in Chicago, went to a nice college, succeeded justifiably, like very soon afterward. He was hired as a writer at S&L when he was 25, which is very intimidating. and again entirely deserved but there's not as much like oh I had like a lost decade where I did a lot of crazy stuff and pulled a lot of stunts

let me like pull from those stories it's almost entirely on the force of his own technique do you think that what is it about Netflix that makes it such a vibrant place for stand up right now is it something about like because you and I've had conversations around the office

and I think sometimes if you don't mind me saying so you have a little bit of you're like I'm a little disappointed because I feel like people give things on Netflix a chance that they wouldn't ordinarily give a chance to something like where it's like, oh, Quarry, which is buried on Cinemax and you can't find it.

But on Netflix, it's like I'm sitting around, I turn on Netflix, and whatever they show me, I will give a shot because the barrier of entry, the actual act that I have to perform is so minimal that I'm open to more things. So what makes people open to stand up on Netflix? I mean, Netflix has like a de facto monopoly on standup right now. I think more so even than in scripted series.

Like HBO put some stuff out, epics put some stuff out, but the percentage of notable stand-up products that come from Netflix versus other places is like really staggering. I also think like this particular period right now is probably like May is maybe the densest month of like notable output there that I've seen since like earlier in the year they had Dave Chappelle and Chris Rock within like a month of each other, which is obviously huge. this month alone. It's John Malaney, Hari Kondobolu, whose profile has been raised by some public back and forth of The Simpsons. Yeah. Ali Wong, Tignitaro,

and Steve Martin and Martin Short, like in a month. That's just baffling. Yeah. And they really, you know, stand up as a common entryway for outlets like HBO and Showtime to get their foot. Right. Because it's low overhead to get

lots of content, right. And Netflix like established that foothold. and then turned it into a stranglehold. Like, they just put out everything. So do you think for Netflix, unlike, say NBC, which would be the place that somebody like Mullaney and Malini talked in your piece about, for a lot of people, the sitcom is the end point. But for me, stand-up is the end point.

The sitcom was almost to make me better at stand-up, right? I'm not sure if I'm paraphrasing, yeah. Yeah, I think one of the fascinating things about Malini's career is that he did what comedians are kind of supposed to do or supposed to want, where they use pre-existing TV writing and stand-up reputation, and then they're like, okay, I've graduated to the big leagues. It's time to do my own project. For some people that's trying to become a movie star,

the way Amy Schumer is right now, for some people that's getting a talk show, for some people that's becoming like anuteur filmmaker type, the way Aziz Ansari did with Master of None. And Malini decided to use that capital to do an old-school, multi-cam, self-titled network sitcom about a stand-up named John Mullaney that he saw as kind of ironically hailing back to sign-to,

But at the time, it was just like drubbed in the reviews. It was just considered a total failure. It didn't get good ratings. It didn't get good reviews. And he's been introspective about like the reasons why the show itself didn't work. I actually kind of enjoyed it. That's totally fair. I mean, like I think it's possibly because I didn't have any expectations.

I wasn't like a huge Mullaney head. So I didn't really know what I was missing out on. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder if that factored into it at the time. But, you know, he did this thing. it didn't work out. And then, you know, not entirely by choice, he went back to the thing that he is best at. And again, I think he's better at than basically anyone else who's working right now.

And it's been really interesting to see him, like, lean into that style of performance as kind of the thing his career is. I don't want to, he should do whatever he wants. I can't speak to anything five to 10 years in the future. But, like, it's really interesting to see someone treat stand up as something that's worth being, like, the summit of their career. Do you think it's possible that Netflix could start to replicate the old network model of taking some of their more popular stand-up products than trying to get a show out of Ali-Wong? Oh, I'm sure. I think I could be wrong, but Ali Wong and Randall Park are going to be in a rom-com directed by Nanakka Khan, and I think that's going to be on Netflix.

And Ali Wong is notable because she is the first stand-up star who was not acquired by Netflix for like millions and millions of dollars. It was Baby Cobra, which was released in 2016, was her first ever special. She literally had to sell Groupon tickets to fill theaters before it was recorded. And it was a huge hit. And she became like an overnight superstar. Again, totally deservedly.

It's one of my favorite hours of comedy I've seen in years. And she has this new special coming out this month that I think is equally excellent. But that is an example of homegrown talent where Netflix has previously been very acquisitive. So I'm really curious to see where that relationship goes. All right. From one streaming service, let's go to a lesser known one, which is CBSL access.

Thanks. And a show that is very near and dear to our hearts, good fight. Now, big good, good wife fan? Medium good wife fan. Medium good wife fan. I mean, first of all, in a very off-brand opinion for this podcast, we are both big fans of a show starring Christine Branski. So that's what this show is now. Oh, yeah.

It's not a show that is starring Rose Leslie. Rose Leslie is like, who was the start of the first season, nominally the start of the first season. She played the daughter of a Bernie Madoff character, and it was a, believe it in 10 episode first season. Yeah, it was 10 episodes last season and this season, it's 13, and I think you could kind of feel the breathing room a little more. And the narrative arc of the first season was largely about this woman, Maya Rendell, whose father was a Bernie Madoff character and she is starting out her law career at Diane Lockhart's new firm, right? Yeah, and it sort of mirrors the good wife where the good wife opens with this public shame and embarrassment scandal of a woman's husband publicly or publicly cheating on her. And this one is Maya's father, who is also Diane's closest friend, is implicated in this scandal, robs Diane of her retirement savings. But because Diane is close to him, she can't get hired.

Sure. She was about to go off to Provance. Yeah. Enjoy a lovely retirement. I hope she gets it someday. but then she decides to or she has to go back to work and she goes to a historically black law firm called Redick Bozeman,

which is that classic Robert and Michelle King nuanced, like the subtle commentary of a white lawyer only going to work in a black firm as a last resort, I think is so smart. A lot of what this, it's called the good fight because the firm focuses a little more on social justice and a lot of casework does.

I would say that good fight has become quite pronounced. If the first season was about this made, off character and his daughter who was trying to make her way in law firm, this season is about Donald Trump. I mean, it's been about a couple of different things. There's a couple of different subplots. But as the second half of the season is unfolded, we are watching almost like liberal fan fiction, I think.

And in some ways, it's like basically like a group therapy session played out as a legal drama where you have all these. It's definitely catharsis. Yes. And we should mention that like literally the first shot of the series is Diane looking dumbfounded of the television while they announced that Donald Trump is won. I believe they were in production on the first season when the election happened. So Trump is incorporated into the first season, and they did a really admirable job of doing

that. But this season, they clearly were able to plan. And now, like, the opening credits show a bunch of office supplies exploding and, like, the TV shows shirtless Putin. Yeah. And, like, I think it's Trump. Great opening credit sequence. Fantastic.

But this season is definitely, like, they do such a good job of. of Diane, the character, is like vocally frustrated in a way that... I'd say beyond vocally frustrated. I don't want to give too much away because it is the kind of thing where you could actually not watch the first season if you wanted to catch up on the second season. It's not a particularly twist and plot-driven show, but it is, I think, easily, the most enjoyable 45 minutes to an hour that I spend watching television every week because uniformly, the ensemble is so great.

the performances are so great. The writing is like of an expert caliber. There's like these ABC and D plots that sometimes can be daffy and irreverent and sometimes can be quite moving. And I can't record. Like there's nobody bad on the show. It's just like I'm interested in every single character. And they're talking about like should we prosecute Donald Trump's impeachment and let's talk

about the P tape on any given week. Yep. Totally. I mean, I just think again, it like really mirrors this feeling. of liberal frustration, but also, like, the good wife always dealt with politics. And I had a really interesting Twitter exchange with Alan Seppinwell, actually, where he said, I think they do a good job. It just makes me, like, a little less enthusiastic to watch every week, sort of like,

not to the same degree, but kind of like what you guys were saying about the Handmaid's Tale, where it's just like, I just don't want to see my reality reflected this much. But I actually disagree there because it totally fits in the King's Wheelhouse. Like, their last show before this, I really enjoyed it. unfortunately didn't work out, but it was a show called Brain Dead, where it was like alien bugs in Washington, D.C. That didn't have, that didn't really pop off, yeah. Didn't pop off, but it was also like they're clear, this is clearly a subject that they are

invested in and have been for a long time. It's not like a show awkwardly trying to shoehorn like the way we talk about things now, all caps into the, into the plot. Like, there are characters on the show who work in the U.S. Attorney's Office. Yeah, also, it's anything but miserable. I mean, they still wear like absolutely amazing clothes. and they actually have a ton of phone with each other. And it is kind of amazing.

I mean, we were talking a little bit about Malini kind of trying to upend the stand-up-driven sitcom years ago. This is a glossy CBS, more or less legal procedural, with tons of cursing. Oh, it is a legal procedure. Yeah, with tons of swearing and, like, drug-taking and weird moments. So, I mean, it's the barrier to get to it. You have to, like, sign up for CBS All Access and watch it that way.

But I really recommend this show for anybody who's looking for, like a slightly different twist on the network, the network procedural. Well, and that was actually the piece I wrote about the good fight earlier in the season was I got really frustrated watching Jessica Jones thinking like, you know, it's missing something. And the thing I thought it was missing was like a procedural element because the main character is literally detective. And the counter example I found was, you know, the Kings have always been very defensive of the quality of network shows and procedures and the procedural format vis-a-vis something like Breaking Bad or. Sure. That was actually, like, Malini in our interview was like what the good fight does is, is harder than what Vince Gilligan had to do.

Really? Yeah, we were talking about how hard it is to make things on a network schedule. Sure. But they're now on, like, sort of network, sort of streaming. Yeah. They have an abbreviated episode count. They can swear, obviously, they can have slightly longer episodes that go up to, like, 55 minutes as opposed to, like, a tight 47. And they have this freedom and they make use of it, but they clearly enjoy what.

what they're able to do with these short-term plots so much that they choose to still use them. And I think that's a great choice and a really instructive one. And there's Bransky. And there's Bransky. All right. So good fight. We highly recommend. We also recommend Kid Gorgeous Live at Radio City on Netflix.

Allison, thank you so much for stopping by. Thanks for having me. Now I'm joined by a very special guest. One of my favorite podcast personalities. Oh, that's so kind of you to say. Recapables Atlanta and Jam Session Amanda Dobbins. Chris, hello. Hi.

I want to talk about Howard Zends. I've been waiting all week for this. Well, because you guys, you and Juliette were very insistent that I check it out. Yes. Can I just say that you were interested in this for a long time? Well, I'm a Lonergan guy. Yeah, exactly. Kenneth Lonergan adapted E.M. Forster's classic.

Yes. When does the novel come out? I don't know. I'm not Wikipedia. Late 19th, early 20th. Early 20th, I would say. And, you know, obviously it's a merchant ivory film. It was an award-winning merchant ivory film.

And Emma Thompson, an iconic performance by Emma Thompson. And so there was a little bit of like, do we need to, how can you improve on that? Yes. I don't know if they, they're different things. But I have, I am bold over by how good this is. I have been yelling at you since it debuted about how fantastic it is. And it's funny, the original Howard's End, the movie starring M. Thompson, is currently on Netflix. So I went back to rewatch it.

And that's something I grew up on the Merchant Ivory films they are near and dear to me. And I went back to compare and contrast. And you're right, it's completely different. And the thing about this new adaptation that is so exciting is just how much energy there is. It's really, really alive. Everything from the performances by Haley Atwell, who I, like, I want to marry her. That's really the only way that I can succinctly express the depth of my appreciation for her performance. And Philippa Coltard, who I'm sorry if I said her name wrong, but you are hosting.

this. Yeah, I'm fine. So, who plays her sister Helen and then everything that the way it's shot, the scenery, I think the score by Nico Muley is fantastic and really invigorating. It's gorgeous music. Yeah. And it's just, you're used to these type of adaptations. I'm used to these type of adaptations being stately and soothing. And, and there's a comfort in that. And I love them for it. But this is such a. It's intellectually ferocious. Yes.

Like that's the thing that I find it's so stimulating because it's like- You sound like Haley-A-Wel right now. I mean, stimulating is literally the best, the most exciting, the best adjective that you can use on Howard's end. It's like, it was so stimulating, don't you think? Yeah, I mean, I didn't, I think I expected what you're talking about. That's stately kind of masterpiece theater, but like with a higher-end production value. Not only do I find it intellectually stimulating from like what they're talking about level,

but like the depiction of London is so awesome and just involving because it actually feels like it's so economical the way they're like probably don't have the budget to like shut down Trafalgar Square. But we can take this one little part of Sloan Square and like shoot it so that you can't see the J crew but we can still have the park that's been there since Dickens. Yeah. And then like the investigation into Leonard's sort of like the early like tower blocks

that Leonard was living in and all these characters and this huge spectrum of life both inside and outside of London is absolutely stunning. It's epic in a way that isn't Lawrence of Arabia epic, but it's sweeping, you know? I have to say they really also, the budget that they have, they spend

really well. On shawls. The shawls, the shirts. I mean, the house, the house where they live that's kind of, I mean, there's obviously the house of Howard Zend and then Wickham Place and the two actual physical locations play a character in this film. So it's good that they spent money on them.

But boy, did they spend the right money. I mean, I want to live in those rooms. And then they're doing small things like there's a plaid shirt that Haley Atwell's character wears in one episode. And then Helen, her sister is wearing in the next episode. So they're paying attention to these details, which has always been a hallmark of these shows. But, you know, I appreciate it. Not everyone gets.

is right. So is there something that Lonnergan is doing with a source material? Because I'm actually, I've never read the novel. But do you know if he's like going back to the book? Is there an expansion of this beyond what was in the Merchant Ivory film? I don't necessarily. No, you know, I think it's pretty close. And what's funny is that I'm, I have read Zadie Smith's On Beauty more recently than I have read Howard's End. And on Beauty was a, was an adaptation. I don't know if adaptation is quite the word, but she definitely uses Howard's end pretty closely. And she, she takes scenes and kind of rearranges them like a, I don't know. Postmodern collage kind of thing. Yeah, exactly. But you, but there are certain scenes where you can kind of go one to one. Oh, that's cool. Yeah.

That's like Exiling Guyville and Exile and Main Street kind of those fair thing. Yeah. Yeah. So I, I have to confess, I couldn't really speak super intelligently about what Lonergan left out of the book. I think the thing that he's doing here that's so different from these types of adaptations. It's like the dialogue is really so it's crackling. It's sorky. I mean, in terms of like overlapping long term monologues that both diverge and then come back together in another room where it's like it's it's really it's quite excellent and it feels different because like sometimes these things feel very stagy. Even the newsroom like you know you're watching the newsroom. They're like this is just like a play that they're putting on a newsroom.

But this feels very exciting because I think sometimes, we talked about this before, it's like TV kind of like is, is shitting the bed and some of the possibilities that it has. If you're allowed to do anything, quote unquote, on TV, like why not try to be as smart and thoughtful as possible in some places? And it's like, why is this show so much more smart and thoughtful than half of what I see on television? I think it's also, I'm going to sound like a broken record myself here, but it's only four episodes. It's four hours. They clearly had, they decided for quality to do quality instead of quantity, which I think goes a long way.

And there's also a thing that I sense in this as a person who has watched more than her fair share of BBC miniseries and Merchant Ivory and all of these costume dramas, there is a real affection for the genre while still wanting to update it and make it feel of the moment. And there aren't that many people trying to do that with this particular genre to really make it be the best that it can be in 2018 and use all our resources. I do want to take a specialist before we go a quick second to shout out Haley Atwell because, first of all, an actress I love anyway. Yes. My favorite episode of Black Mirror, be right back.

But when this first aired, the interviews I was seeing were basically like, how do you feel even trying to like lift the hem of Emma Thompson's garment? Like what are you even thinking? Basically it was just like, this is crazy. Like this is Emma Thompson's signature role, one of them. Yeah. I mean, they don't have to be a one. It's not a zero-sum game, but she's. so good in this. She is dazzling in this show. She's dazzling. There's an Allison Herman who you were

just speaking to. She wrote a piece at my request because I love this show so much, which I thank you, Allison for doing that. The piece was very lovely. And also the word that she used was electric, which is exactly right. The Emma Thompson thing is interesting. I'm going to nerd out with you for a second. Go for it. You're in the right place. I believe in the mid-2000s, Emma Thompson and Haley Atwell starred in a movie together, and it was a remake of Brideshead Revisited. Right. And Brideshead Revisited is another, this is funny, actually, it's kind of, that's a BBC miniseries from the 80s that is like a really hallowed.

Oh, yeah, people adore that one. I mean, that one is. I think my mom watches it like once every year and a half for something. It's kind of, it's the peak of the genre. And so there was a little bit of like, how dare you remake this for both of them. And they co-starred in together. It's not great, even though it has Matthew Good as well. And I think the reason that it doesn't work, I was also rewatching it fairly recently because I'm me.

It has no energy. It's really dower. It takes kind of all the worst lessons of it. Obviously, it's also about Catholicism. So, like, there's how much you can do about dourness at some point. Right. Right. But I think Emmett Thompson and Haley, I will actually really share a certain vivacity.

Yeah. For lack of a better word. And I don't really see it as stepping on Emma Thompson's territory as much as kind of, I think she's a natural air. It's a, it's a, it's great casting. Yeah, she's someone I just don't think, like, I have gotten to see enough in other stuff. You know, it's like she kind of got, the most people here probably know her as Agent Carter. Yes.

And I just can't recommend you watch Howard's End enough. It is like four hours really, really, really well. Yeah, it's someone getting the chance to do exactly what they were. meant to do. Yeah. That's a really good way of putting it. All right. I mean,

thank you so much for joining me. Thank you for having me. Today's episode of The Watch is brought to you by Thomas's English muffins. I know most people are probably expecting me to cry the tears of an angel when I talk about Thomas's English muffins. And I mean,

nothing's changed. Nothing changes about Thomas's. That's what's so good about them. They're classic. They're classic breakfast foods that get you ready for whatever you've got to face during your day. But without my cranny to my. nook today. I feel like I'm going to dial it back a little bit and just tell you that Thomas's is

the only breakfast brand that delivers a one-of-a-kind eating experience with its original nooks and crannies English muffin. There's nothing quite like that nooks and crannies texture perfectly toasted to give you irresistibly crispy edges with a soft, warm center. Take it from a true fan, and he isn't even here because he just had to go cop more Thomas's English muffins. That's what a big fan he is. The secret to revealing the perfect nooks and crannies goodness every time is to gently pull your Thomas English muffin halves apart. You can also use a fork to split them. Just don't use a knife. Next, lightly toast each half and then top them right away with butter. Watch how the butter just melt some pools inside. All those amazing nooks and cranny spaces. It's a delicious

burst of flavor in every warm, toasty buttery bite. If you haven't had them already, you have to toast and butter some Thomas's nooks and crannies English muffins. They are truly like no other. Today's episode of The Watch is also brought to you by Hotel Tonight. If you're the type that's always looking for a bigger, better deal. You've got to get the Hotel Tonight app. Hotel Tonight partners with awesome hotels to help them sell their unsold rooms, which means you get amazing deals.

Their name is Hotel Tonight, but you can actually book in advance, book next week tonight or next month tonight. All it takes is 10 seconds, just three taps in a swipe, no long, endless lists of a zillion hotel choices. Hotel Tonight only shows you the best deals at the best hotels,

perfect for whether you're a planner or like to leave things to the very last minute. And with Hotel Tonight's H.T. Perks program, the more you book, the better the deals get. Unlike other loyalty programs where you're trapped into staying at boring chain hotels, I love hotel tonight. I have used it multiple times of the last year and a half to book quick staycations in and around Los Angeles or even go to places like Lake Tahoe or Texas.

It's just an awesome program that you can just, you can be a little spur of the moment or you can be that kind of mid spur of the moment. That's the perfect place to be. If the game goes into overtime, don't trek back. Get a great deal nearby. Spontaneous weekend getaways are available. you can do a staycation at a hotel you've always wanted to stay at, or you just skip the commute.

Let someone else make the bed tomorrow. So start scoring amazing deals at incredible hotels and download the Hotel Tonight app now. All right, it's my pleasure. Welcome to the Watch. Dion Taylor, director of traffic, writer and director of traffic. Dee, I've heard a couple of interviews where you talked about the germ of what, like the idea of why you wanted to make a movie about

what you made a movie about. Right. But I was wondering, because you were just talking about being from the Sacramento area, was there like a house you drove by? Was there a road you drove down that said, this is kind of creepy. What we need is a thriller here. What was the setting, what triggered the setting idea? No, man, actually, you know, it's a really, really crazy story,

but actually, just as a regular guy, I would have never made a movie like this. Really? I mean, I just, because I wasn't aware of what it was. I mean, like everyone, you see it, you hear it, but you kind of just keep walking and, you know, doing whatever you're doing your life until something affects you. Yeah. And what was interesting is my daughter's school sent us an email that we received that was like kids are being trafficked at the local mall. And I just remember looking at it going like, what is this? real, yeah.

What was the first time I've ever seen that written? Yeah. And, I mean, you know, just as an African-American man, I mean, you deal with so much anyway in the home with your child, like you're constantly talking about whatever it is, the topic of the day. Well, any parent does, right? Yeah. But this was like foreign to me.

I had never seen that. I was like, well, they don't want us, right? Yeah. That's the international thing. And I was shocked, man. I was just blown away when I went online and started reading the statistics. and understanding that, you know, young kids, African-American kids, Latino kids, and adults are, you know, pretty much number one domestically in terms of being trafficked.

And that blew my mind. Because, you know, you think like, oh, this is... So that happens in, like, Eastern Europe maybe or something like that. Whatever, right? Are you seen Taken? Right. Yeah, right. Right.

Right. And that haunted me. And then what happened was once that triggered me, every time I looked at the TV, it was something on there about trafficking. Something like kidnapping. I said, man, this is crazy. And that sparked the idea. And then, you know, headlines were all available to me where I'm like, man, look at this,

look at this. And started looking at rings and I eventually was like, oh, I got a really good idea how to build this. And, you know, unlike a horror movie where you would go see, you know, a really dope Blumhouse movie. Oh, this is, you know, the monster. This is the purge. You know, and this night, it was not that.

It was like, okay, we'll build a thriller slash horror film, but we'll have a real topic as the thing that is going to be the undertow. So did you set it in that area outside of Sacramento because that was the area you were most familiar with or was there something about that that felt like on the surface? Well, what I was most intrigued about was that area was one of, you know, a highlighted run. So where I'm at in Northern California, which is a beautiful place, man. I mean, it's just like I said, you drive to Tahoe.

you never think anything of it. You know what I mean? Like, oh, this is beautiful, but this is one of the runs that they use coming out of the Bay Area up towards that way to Reno. And I started reading stories about that area. And I was like, man, that's right there.

Right. And I've driven that road a million times. So I said, okay, this is where I'm going to base the story at. So you're obviously somebody who loves movies. Yes. You're writing a movie that's, you know, it has these echoes of Hitchcock. It has these echoes of horror movies.

It has these echoes of like some of the 90s. these thrillers. I'm sure we probably grew up with like at what point in the screenwriting process and at what point when you're making this movie, how do you balance some of the social messaging that you want to put in there about like this issue, but also like maintain this this like edge of your seat stuff that's going on because you know, the first 40 minutes up through their dinner, you know, is pretty and I don't want to give anything too big away in terms of twist because people see obviously got to see the movie. But we get it. We get through the first.

act and a half of the movie and it's pretty you're you're like okay this is pretty straightforward how are you balancing those two two things that you're trying to do um this was a really tough film i think you know what's interesting about this movie is when i went to go research and watch and say okay sometimes you can go and say oh i'm gonna make a movie like this this movie hadn't been made so for me i'm like all right how do you how do you pitch that how do you pitch it and how do you build it and And at what point do you turn the audience where they're like, oh, my God, what just happened? Because that's what's happening. And I decided in the beginning, it would be straightforward.

I decided in the beginning, in order for me to be able to take you down that road, you went down, watching the movie, I would have to invest more time in the characters in the beginning. So you understand Paula's journey. So you understand what Omar is trying to do. And eventually, once I get the love story and the story of flawed kids, characters on screen, then I could turn the page and make you follow them and root for them and ultimately, you know, hope they survive. I like the, um, all the characters seem saved and doomed by their occupations.

It's like, Paula can't leave the story alone. Yeah. You know, yeah. You know, I mean? Like a sports agent who's just like can't have cops in here. You know what I mean? Like every step along the way where it would have been better, it's something about the the person's inherent, you know, what they're interested in profession.

Talk to me a little bit about getting this movie making. because we write a lot at the site and we talk a lot about the changing sort of nature of the filmmaking business. And this is a theatrically released thriller with Paula Patton, but you're still working within a budget. So tell me a little bit about the process of getting this movie made and what it's like for you right now at once with all the different options that are open to filmmakers, but also probably like some new obstacles and hurdles that I don't even know about. Right. Well, it's tough. I mean, you know, any independent artists, whatever it is you do, if you do, if you're,

you're trying to create a startup company, right? You're trying to do this business, which you guys have done incredibly well. It's going to always have, you know, ups and downs and things you have to actually fight against, you know what I mean? And independent film is no different. You have to raise your capital. Then you have to be, you know, work within a budget.

So this movie, you know, was a micro-budget movie, which means that you absolutely are shooting. You're strapped. There is no big checks being cut. You know what I mean? There is no tomorrow. it's extremely hard. And what you have to do is try to get yourself around people

that could believe and trust in the process and want to be there to be there. Because if they're not, then they're going to ultimately not help you do what you're trying to do. Yeah, you need kind of like a level of commitment. You have to. You have to have, because here's the thing. It's like when you're scrapping, man, and you're on the ground,

you know, it's like you and your producers here on this show, right? You might have to work 16 hours today. You can't have a guy like, man, I only signed up for eight. That is actually, Zach, our producer, is actually the king of, you know, I've got a tea time at three o'clock so I'm out. That's hilarious. No, but yeah, so, yeah, it's that situation. Yeah. And movie making is no different, and you need to have the actors on the same accord.

And, you know, I grew up playing basketball my whole life. And I love the term gym rat. And when you're a gym rat, that means you're not doing it for a check. That means you're not doing it for the girls, right? You're doing it because you love the game. So I'm in there shooting jump shots at 13, 14 years old for, you know, 6, 7. I'm in there to my mom, so you've got to come home. So with that in mind, without giving away plot points necessarily, but just for my own

notification, what was a more challenging sequence to shoot? The car chase? or the nighttime sort of confrontation between the two, when they first come to the house, they send the girl and go get the phone. Like, I'm curious because I'm like, you must be on the clock to be able to make stuff dumb. Every time.

What I think was, that's a pretty good car chase too. It was really cool, man. I'm so excited about that. I'm so excited about that. Yeah, it was cool, man. I like the energy of it. It was great.

It was just enough time for independent film. It felt big. I think the night would have been a lot harder than that just because I had the privilege of working with Dante Spinole I was just going to wrap up who's been nominated for multiple Academy Awards and shot heat shot heat

shot the insider LA confidential right and this was a special time in the movie and what happens is the movie goes from it transitions in that very moment you just said from a regular thriller to a thriller noir Right?

So we go now into that whole sequence is lit by car headlights. Yep. And dust particles. Yeah, that light, when the lights go on. Oh, that's incredible, man. It's my favorite scene in the movie. Because you go, oh, like I love watching the audience when it comes, and everyone's going, oh, what just happened?

And it's like, oh, man, the movie just changed. And from that point on, that is what happens. The movie gets squeezed down. The lighting goes away. And now the forest is lit by headlights. the cabin is lit by a little dome light, the car is lit by a moonlight. So you go from these beautiful, big wide, beautiful shots,

scenic vistas to this. And yeah, that by far, we had to, took Dante a while to place cars and get things settled because that had to be exactly right for that to hit and the girl to run right into that light, which is really, really cool.

So this movie is obviously just coming out. Do you, it seems like you're somebody who has a lot of stuff, you got a lot of pots on the stove at once. What's next for you? Can you talk about maybe some other stuff that you're working on? Yeah, I have another film, which I'm really excited about,

called Motivated Seller. Oh, yeah. I was dreaming about this. Yeah, with Michael Ely, Megan Good, and Dennis Quaid. It's a real thriller. Like, this is, you know, this one, this traffic has an incredible message.

This is the one where I was like, all right, let's just make a thriller. Yeah. And this one sounds a little bit like it's like Pacific Heights, like 90s thriller kind of thing. Yeah, this is a sick one here, man. Yeah, this one will have you like, oh my God, what just happened? Yeah.

And yeah, that's a really good one. Dennis Quaid sells Michael Ely and Megan Good at house, like a really big house up in Napa. And they're excited to buy this house. And he's motivated. He's looking for the right couple to buy the house because it's been in his family for 100 years. And now he's too old to take care of it. And they buy it. they hug him, kiss him goodbye, and then they realize he never leaves the house.

Oh, no. Oh, no. You're not doing a great job of selling me on Northern California. Oh, it's great, man. Between human trafficking and Dennis Quaid trapping me in a nap of house. That's great. You love it. Deion Dea Taylor, thank you so much for coming by the watch, man.

Good luck with everything. Thank you so much, man. Today's episode of The Watch was brought to you by the homies at Thomas's English muffins. Here's the breakfast I always get out of bed for. Thomas's original Nooks and Crannies English Muffins. There's nothing quite like that irresistible Nooks and Crannies texture. Perfectly toasted, crispy edges with a soft, warm center.

How the butter pulls inside all those nooks and crannies spaces is just amazing. It's a delicious burst of flavor in every warm, toasty, buttery bite. Thomas's Nooks and Crannies English muffins are truly like no other.