The Watch - 'Star Wars' to TV and 'The Sopranos' to the Big Screen, Plus the Shib Sibs | The Watch (Ep. 233)

Episode Date: March 8, 2018

The Ringer’s Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald react to the news that Jon Favreau will write and produce a new 'Star Wars' series for Disney’s streaming service (3:00) as well as David Chase’s plans to make a 'Sopranos' prequel for the big screen (9:30). Later they preview 'Collateral,' announce the next book club (14:00), and sit down to interview Olympic ice dancers and pop culture enthusiasts the Shibutani siblings about their culture diets and experience winning medals at the Pyeongchang Winter Olympics (26:00) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of The Watch is brought to you by Hulu's new original program, The Looming Tower, just released on Hulu, based on the Pulitzer Prize-winning book by Lawrence Wright. This limited series traces the rising threat of Osama bin Laden and how the rivalry between the FBI and CIA may have set a path to the tragedy of 9-11. The Luming Tower is available now, only on Hulu. Today's episode of The Watch is brought to you by Microsoft Surface. The new Surface Pro gives you the power you need when you're out and about.

It has a super-fast processor, and all-day battery life so that you can play up to 13 and a half hours of video without needing to charge. It's light enough to take anywhere and works with your iPhone, so it's synced with your life. The new Surface Pro is the lightest,

most powerful Surface Pro ever. I need sports to have to clear the room. Stand up and walk now. Hello, and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at Theringer.com and joining me in the studio performing an Iron Lotus.

It's Andy Greenfield. You know, I never thought, of all the twists and turns, I thought this podcast would take over its six-year life cycle, becoming the number one podcast for American ice dancing was not, it's just not something I saw. Andy, welcome to Thursday's Watch podcast. It's a special episode because today we are going to be joined by Alex and Maya Shibutani. American ice dancers from, this past Winter Olympics, they won the bronze medals over there. We got to touch the medals. We got to hold the medals. They let us wear the medals. And those guys, what a dynamite pair. These two are dreamboats. Let me just tell you people out there.

I know America fell in love with them on the ice. You'd fall in love with them twice in person. This was a very, this was really a kind thing. This was like a quick moving courtship because during the Olympics, Alex gave an interview to Entertainment Weekly where he said that his favorite podcast to listen to was this one. And Bill. I don't remember that part, weirdly. But I don't blame him.

And we began tweeting at one another. And when they were back here, they came by. And it could not have been nicer. We really enjoyed our time with them. There's also a fun video that we did where we watched. Director's Commentary for Ice Skating Movies. We did Blades of Glory. I think we got a couple other ones coming out.

Let me just say one other thing. We're going to talk about a couple others. We're going to talk more right before we get into that interview. You want to do that talking first? Yeah. Well, we're going to get into, we're going to talk a little bit about the announcement that John Favro is going to take over the live action Star Wars television series. We're going to talk a little bit about this announced prequel to the Sopranos that David Chase is working on.

And we want to recommend a show to you. And we also have a double-down book club. This is a full show. I just want to take one second to say, though. As much as I love being with the Shiboutanis, we had a great time. That was the first time, real talk. And I know Alex is going to hear this. A little bit, I could relate to the witch character in Hansel and Gretel.

Because these two are so young and they were so sweet. And when we looked at the pictures, we literally, looked like we were on Mount Rushmore, the two of us. I look like Billy Crystal and the Princess Bride. And I look like Carol Dean. Yeah. I mean, it is wonderful to be listening to. You love the Brute Squad.

That's not how he says it. That was my only point. Andy, I wish we could bottle their beautiful energy. So we talked to the Alex and Maya. That's the second half of the show. First, let's get through a couple of news items. First of all, Star Wars.com. My homepage.

It sure is. My portal into the galaxy. announced today that John Favreau Pod Save the Galaxy I know. How does this guy have time? It's not our homie Favs. It's the director of Chef. Yeah, sure. We'll be taking on the live

action. The guy from Iron Man 3? Iron Man 1. Well, he plays Happy Hogan. Yes, right. I always thought his name was Poppy, but that's Pepper. Pepper Pots and Happy Hogan. Alliteration was so big in the 60s. So Favreau is going to be directing a, or

actually, importantly, writing and producing, an executive producing, a Star Wars series for Disney's new direct-to-consumer platform. So we've talked a little bit... Luke is going to leave

the longest series of voicemails for Leia. It's a deep, deep Favreau cut. Wow. Great swingers. Alderan, baby, Alderan. There it is. Favro is going to be writing and producing this. And we talked about this a couple weeks ago

about how obviously is the crown jewel Disney's direct-to-consumer service. It's going to be... I mean, we have to assume it's going to be there in Netflix. They own a piece of BAM, the baseball advanced media, the back-end video technology that they're going to be using. And obviously, they'll have the Disney catalog to entice folks like yourself

who have little people running around. But then also... Also, I have children. Yeah. Also, there is this carrot of having Star Wars live action. Fabro in the last couple of years, you know, he started out of his career and he did swingers and he had made and, you know, even... you know, obviously was experimenting with a bunch of different kinds of genres,

but in the last, say, 10 years. Since the first Iron Man. Yeah. This guy has cemented himself not only as a blockbuster filmmaker. And that had actually been a shaky ground when he made Cowboys vs. Aliens, which I think was supposed to be a big comics to movies. Blockbuster with Daniel Craig and Harrison Ford and didn't quite pop off that way. But since Iron Man has sort of reliably delivered mainstream entertainment,

whether it's... The Jungle Book, right? Jungle Book. He's directing the live action Lion King that's coming in 2019. Is he really? Clearly a Disney fave. Yeah, they trust him.

I mean, that's the biggest thing here. I mean, we've been talking about the inevitability of a Star Wars TV show for as long as we've been doing this podcast. That drumbeat has only increased once Lucasfilm really kicked into high gear with all the new movies. It's a safe choice. I mean, that's what they're looking for on these giant corporate decisions. We could tell ourselves this is a creative decision. we won't know for quite some time.

John Favreau has made good family widescreen entertainment. He's a smart and talented guy. But this is a corporate decision. And I have to say that my main takeaway from this, and I know I'm going to disappoint the troll who said I don't like anything except Star Wars by not liking something related to Star Wars.

It's kind of a bummer that only a certain type of dude is being allowed to play with these action figures. Okay. If you look at the people who have been given... Josh Trank agrees with you. Josh Trank is just furious. Exactly. Exactly.

Yeah. If you look at the Game of Thrones dudes at David Benioff and D.B. Weiss and... And... Thavro. Ryan Johnson. Ryan Johnson. J.J. Abrams. Even the ones who were relieved of their duties.

Yeah. Colin Trevereaux and... Josh Trank. And Phil and... And Lord. Lord Miller is how I'm looking for it. Yeah, yeah. Please say Josh Trank's name.

Let's never let it be forgotten. I mean, there is a certain people like us, literally us, like people who grew up in this. I mean, because we are JJ Abrams. We've had a similar level of success. Right. No, but that's all I'm saying. I mean, this is not a new argument. And they were not going to give this huge new plank in the franchise to someone untested.

Yeah. But, boy, it would be nice to see a different sort of person telling a different sort of Star Wars. Sure. The diversity question is there. And there's also a question. of tone. I think we talked a lot before when we've brought up this idea of like, would it be a prestige style show?

Would there be, would it be Star Wars character standing around being like, am I a bad man, you know? And I, you know, would it be Grito looking in the mirror being like, I shot first? Well, it's basically the question of how big of a tonal and emotional platform or spectrum is Star Wars

on. And I think that that's... Or will it be allowed to be on? And it's been the interesting test, the most interesting tension of these newer films, whether it's Rogue One, whether it's some of the things that happen in Last Jedi, of how far can we push things without, with still making this entertaining for six-year-olds and 56-year-olds.

And Favreau is really, really like an innings-eating, entertaining. Spielberg would probably out without the, like, innate genius of visual storytelling. He's got those kinds of sensibilities. So that should tell you a lot about what you're going to get. Now, I think he seems to have a good facility with that. He gets good performances. I think he makes entertaining stuff.

There's a very good chance that this could still be entertaining. But if you were thinking this might be like the Battlestar Galactica reboot, it probably is not going to do. There is no, I don't mean a ding on him personally or artistically, but... Can I tell you something? The thing to look at this. He's good either way. He's fine, exactly. It doesn't matter.

Yeah. Can't hear you on his money phone. The signal's not good. It's just made out of money. Hello? I can't hear you through all this money! That's where he is right now. And it's, if you're going to be, you're going to be.

going to compare it to anything compared to J.J. Abrams being entrusted with building out the business. You know, that's it. But it will be in general, when we talk about these next steps for these franchises, the most important discussion point is Black Panther, not just because it's made, you know, it's well on its way to making a billion dollars, but that proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that people want to see different versions of these stories and they are ready to see them. And the more redundant you make them or the more you make them, it's no longer enough just to have capes or no longer enough just to have lightsabers.

And I guess Solo is going to be a big test for that as well. So from the expansion of the Star Wars universe, let's go to the expansion of the Sopranos. Very, very similar. David Chase back. Yes. It was announced today that David Chase is, according to deadline, quote, finally ready to return to the New Jersey turf

of his iconic creation, The Sopranos. New Line has purchased the screenplay, The Many Saints of Newark, the working title for a feature prequel to the Sopranos that is set in the era of the Newark riots of the 1960s. That was a time when the African Americans and Italians of Newark were at each other's throats. And amongst the gangsters of each group, those conflicts became especially lethal. So a feature film.

Great. From the director of Not Fade Away. Which certainly tread very far from the milieu of the Sopranos being in New Jersey. This is a show that's very near and dear to your heart, much nearer and dearer to your heart than mine. So I thought you should have right of first refusal here. Yeah, I was going to say, in the spirit of full disclosure, the agent that brokered this as my agent. So you'll be playing young junior.

I actually am angling to play one of the young African-American capos because I figure dream bigger. Yeah. But look, this is great. David Chase is a singular talent. Sopranos is one of the greatest shows of all time. There clearly was more story to be told here. He is not the sort of person who is going to be wooed into a project that he doesn't care about. One thing I learned firsthand when I interviewed him for the podcast was he really,

really truly does not care what other people think. Sure. And he is not going to move at anyone's pace but his own. So it wouldn't surprise me if this had been percolating for quite some time. I think that ultimately the response might be similar to not fade away, which was a very respectable, very well done movie that when I watched it, I couldn't help but think it would have been better served as a TV show. But the thing to remember about David Chase is he's very much of an older generation.

and despite creating one of the most important television shows of all time, still thinks he kind of failed on some level because he made a TV show. So, you know, I would be all in, as would HBO, if he had just been like, look, let's just blow this out for three seasons or two seasons or ten episodes, but he wants to make movies. So it will be very interesting to see how the storytelling sensibility in the storytelling milieu of Sopranos translates into a 120-minute film. But it's exciting.

Do you think that this is a movie he wants to? wanted to make about 1960s Newark and he had to get it to get it made. He had to call it a Sopranos prequel. I think it's just to know because I think that he was always interested in that previous generation. I mean, that would be amazing if he was like actually like let's just make a 60s Newark movie but it's like you want to call it Cloverfield to go for it. I mean, you're not wrong to suggest that.

But I think just the importance that Livia Tony's mother had that Uncle Jr. had in the show and the shadow of Tony's father and what they lived through. But then also just that tease of the very beginning of the Sopranos pilot when Tony says he feels like he came in at the end. So let's see. Let's see what it was like before it was over. I mean, I think it'll be great, but it is not nearly the news story it would be if he was making this for TV. Regardless of the relative audience of a film versus a TV show, this will be a respect. The outcome for this is what?

it will be a respectable, hopefully, critically, um, adored smaller film. Sure. Yeah. From, so that stuff's happening in the future. Let's talk a little bit about the present because I believe, whatever, it would be tonight, midnight, but essentially tomorrow. On Netflix, there's going to be the debut of this new show. I'm not sure if it's actually aired already in Britain.

It started in February. Oh, okay. So it's probably already aired. So, uh, we're talking about a show called collateral. Now, tons of TV, guys. I know. There's lots of stuff happening. Um, but we're really excited about it.

this one. And it kind of came out of nowhere. I did not have like the highest of expectations, although the sort of cast and crew working on it should have probably told me that I was wrong to not have higher expectations. Starring Carrie Mulligan, it's written entirely by the acclaimed British writer playwright mostly, but screenwriter, David Hare. And it's directed by S.J. Clarkson, who is herself a really respected but rarely given the chance to shine on a prestige level. She directed a couple episodes of Jessica Jones. She's done house. house, she's done ugly Betty, she did some banshee, she's all over the place, but she does all four episodes. Four episodes, guys. Four episodes. Four hours. It's a mystery set in contemporary

London, and it's starring Carrie Mulligan. I've watched the first one, Andy's watched the first one. It comes out tonight. We're going to do one per watch episodes. So for the next four watch episodes starting Monday, we'll break down this series and just chat about it. It won't, you know, it's, it's not going to be what is, you know, any kind of like fan theories. This is just like really good writing, writing at an incredibly high level. And I will say that this may seem like typical watch like, oh, crime fiction stuff, there is a different energy to this show. Yeah, I agree. Not only is it incredibly of the moment in England in terms of it's like a Brexit mystery. It's got to do with the splitting of the labor party, with immigration and refugees, with the changing face of England,

but it also has a zest and an intellectual propulsion that I don't think a lot of crime shows, much less any television has right now. There has been a sort of turn towards ponderousness over the last four or five years, and I think people associate slowness and drabness and morbidity with seriousness. But this is essentially like Aaron Sorkin writing 24. It's really, really ratatatat. Carrie Mulligan out here. hanging on the rim on people.

She is phenomenal in this show. She plays an investigator. It's a little bit prime suspect, a little bit Fargo, because she's very pregnant in the role. An ex-Polevalter named Kip Glasby. Great name, by the way. Carrie Mulligan is so fantastic in the show. I mean, it's a deep bench. It's a big cast.

She's essentially playing like the Humphrey Bogart role. She's just like a wise-cracking detective. There's something about casting her against type here because the thing about Carrie Mulligan, she has, to my mind anyway, she has one of the war. warmest and most welcoming faces on the screen. She seems, you just sort of, your heart goes out to her because she seems like a worthwhile person. That's how she presents.

So to put her in the role of a tough cop, which she pulls off with a plum, is really interesting because she uses her looks and her just natural empathy to great effect as a police detective who is questioning people, who doesn't, Brooke nonsense, doesn't have time for it. But plays against her expectations of what that role and what that role. that performance should be. But it also is great for us because, you know, and I'd be curious to hear from British viewers who listen to us and who have seen either the first episode or the whole thing if it holds together, because there might also be an element of this where it's maybe facile

to Londoners. Yeah. But there's an element of this. Sure. Well, we're seeing a different world. And frankly, I had never really spent that much time looking closely at the abomination that is London takeout pizza, but it is much worse than I expected. And this show really doesn't show away from that fact. Yeah, the last things that I'd seen by David Hare was his trilogy of, I think there were films for television starring Bill Nyee call that were about a

Johnny Warwicker. It was about a spy, an ex-spy. Oh yeah. And they were the same sort of, they were a little bit more screwbally than collateral as they were called, it's called page eight, Turks and Kikos insulting the battlefield. It was a trilogy of these films about one character.

And they were excellent. I mean, just like the level of writing and just the level of dialogue is just really refreshing. Yeah, I like that it is entertaining us. I like that it is, you said at the beginning, there's a brightness and flare and speed to it that is really brought out also by the excellent direction. But this is an urban show and it's, it's really entertaining to be there with a mystery that I don't know what it's going to happen and it moves in all directions. It goes down towards the truth and spreads out. And we thought that in lieu of a, a deeper dive chapter watch show.

We'll do a quick, we'll do a quick mini binge of this show altogether for four episodes, see what we learn, see where it gets us, see how we feel at the end of it before we take on our next big project. Yeah, so episode one Monday, two, Thursday, three on the following Monday, four on the following Thursday. Before we let you go, before we get to the Shibitani's, just a quick word for us, we are going to be doing another double-down book club selection. This one is, we don't mean to play the greatest hits, but we felt like it was time.

it might be collectively our favorite crime novel. It might be the best crime novel ever written. It might be. It definitely is the best first sentence. This is James Crumley's The Last Good Kiss. I'll say it again. Maybe you're not transcribing. Maybe you're driving. The Last Good Kiss by James Crumley.

We talk about this book a lot. This book influences the way we think and watch things. James Crumley, one of our favorite writers, was a larger-than-life character who had dreams of great literary glory. He wrote a book. after his service in Vietnam called One to Count Cadence that didn't do super well. It's okay. It's a very serious book. And then basically to prop up between teaching universities and to prop up his multiple marriages and robust bar tab, he sort of stumbled into crime fiction and wrote with a

literary flare and also substance infused mania that both fit the times because he was writing the 70s, right, you know, he was writing the 70s after the 60s kind of went. super sour. Yeah. But also really upended the genre. This book introduces a lead character called CW Shug Roo. Shug is in Sugar, Roo is in Roo the Day. There are other books starring Shug Roo.

He also has another character called Milo, who's another detective, the two come together in a later book. We would love to have you read all of them. But this is the one that is the most, it's the tightest, the most together. Yeah. And a lot of fun. And we were, we were dithering over this. were thinking about some contemporary books. We were excited to read. We hadn't tried yet.

But look, we did this club for a reason, and one of the reasons was to both reread our favorites and to share them. Yeah, we were batting around a couple, and I think we would like to get Killers of the Flower Moon by David Graham. A nonfiction. Yeah, down the line. But last good kiss is the book now. I mean, if you like Jim Harrison, if you like Richard Ford, if you, I would even say that it has a relationship spiritually with Robert Town's Chinatown script. It's that kind of reimagining the hard-boiled detective after the summer of love has gone bad. And it's quite a piece of American social history as well as crime fiction. And it's worth noting that many people, not just stands like your boys here, think that it has the greatest first sentence of contemporary literature.

Sure. Do you want to read it? I do. Okay. When I finally caught up with Abraham Treherin, he was drinking beer with an alcoholic bulldog named Fireball Roberts in a ramshackled joint just outside of Sonoma. California, drinking the heart right out of a fine spring afternoon. Dog crunch. Dog crunch. There you go.

Tomorrow we will have on the Ringer podcast network, I was just going to say, check out the rewatchables, the Big Lobowski. Happy 20th anniversary to that movie. So Sean Fentasy, myself, Jason Concepcion and David Shoemaker did the rewatchables for that. That's going up tomorrow. And while you're checking out Ringer products, please read Alice and Herman on Versace. Yeah, I really appreciated the piece that she wrote because it's sort of a puzzle why this show, obviously, I already copped that it didn't come together for me, but it has not replicated the either rating success of the OJ show or the kind of cultural buzz success. And I think she did a good job trying to parse exactly why that is.

I'd be curious to see how at the end of the day, maybe in June, like which of these shows like Waco, like Versace, which of them popped more and didn't? Also, the thing to do, and maybe we can get some outside help to give some expert opinions on this, but which were successful internally because the goals were very different. Paramount Network was trying to make a name for itself with this splashy star-studded Waco. Did that work for them? Are they happy with the results? Similarly, how does FX feel about basically how all that momentum for OJ turned into an aborted second season about Katrina that maybe is going to happen? Maybe now it won't with Ryan Murphy leaving. We don't know.

Leaving FX and going to Netflix. This show, which essentially is a Tom Rob Smith show, as Allison points out. It's really not a Ryan Murphy show. Interesting to see. How about if you're down in Texas this weekend, come check out your boy. Not me. I'll be there with the cast of The Sopranos. No, I won't.

Do you know, like, be real. Like the dude who played Bobby Bacala has just been making calls today. He's like, I can play my own father. The Irishman, they're aging those guys backwards. I gotta be like those, all the cast of Sopranos shouts to them. They were all indelible in those roles. I love them all. But if there was a reliable hang at any HBO event in New York over the last 15 years,

yeah. They love an open seafood buffet. They came to the buffet. All right, we are going to get into this interview with Alex and Maya Shibatani just after a quick few words from our sponsors. Today's episode of The Watch is brought to you by First Leaf wines. Andy, I got this first leaf California Merlot. Wow. What do I pair that with?

Whoa, like, how are the tannins in that? They're a little, they're right on the nose for me. Like, it's just not too much, not too little. Okay. Well, you know, you can, a lot of things can stand up to that. Maybe like a, you ever make like a turkey chili? Something like that? I'm going to start tonight.

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Remember, pay no delivery fee on your first caviar order. Plus, take $10 off your first order of $30 or more with the code watch at trycaviar.com. And now me and Andy's interview with Alex and Maya Shibutani American bronze medal winners in ice dancing at the 2018 Winter Olympics. And the winners of our hearts. That's right. USA! Let's, I want to ask you guys about your experience in Hollywood since you've arrived with these medals. But to begin with, let's go back a little bit.

I want to ask you about the Olympics. Here's the question that I've been thinking about a lot. Obviously, you guys are professionals. And so you are prepared for and have been preparing for every time. time a moment when they call your name, the lights go down, and it's go time. That's what you do. The lights never go down. It would be more dramatic if they went down. And then mentally. Okay. What about the after? Yeah, what about the after-out. Okay. So what was boggling my mind is that in addition to being prepared for that go moment

multiple times during the actual Olympics, you're also preparing knowing that beginning and around January, that go moment is beginning for every aspect of your life. It's not just, your performance slots, it's, once the spotlight goes on in the Olympics, it's on, as you guys know, for a number of months. How did you prepare for that aspect of it, for the prep, the lead up, all the attention during the entire period? I think you can try and think about it as much as you want, but nothing will truly prepare you for it. But we had a lot more experience following our first Olympics in 2014. So that helped a lot. And as we progressed through time, the Olympics and media and social media and awareness, it only increases.

And so with the Olympics being one of the few remaining events in our culture, where the entire world is paying attention throughout two and a half weeks. And with the U.S., it's primetime television every night. Yeah. And we were skating. We knew we were going to be skating at least four nights of that with the coverage in between. We were not focused on the media aspect at all. Like for us as athletes, we were completely preparing ourselves for the emotional rollercoaster

that is the Olympic Games, I guess to start with, even if you're not, competing, we're staying in the Athletes Village. And you will be in the Athletes Village and you'll see athletes from all around the world coming into the village, either experiencing the best moment of their lives or potentially the worst. And even when the television is on in the recovery center, you're just trying to relax, you're always on edge because you're seeing someone putting it all out there. What is the advice that you had, having had the previous Olympic experience that you would have given to first timers in terms of how to filter out the noise, and everything else going alongside of it.

The advice that we got before 2014 was to really just enjoy every moment. And so I think that as the pressure kind of gets to be even more, it's hard to remember to do that. But at the same time, just being very present. Once you're there, time kind of shifts. It's like, what day is it? I don't know. We have practices, competition, media,

but it's just really important to focus on whatever you're doing at that moment. And every athlete, every performer has a different way of handling pressure and that intensity. But one of the things that we've found throughout our experience competing is, you know, we have a really good relationship and we work really well together. But we perform better when we realize that it's such an amazing thing that we're getting to do what we dreamed of doing when we were kids. Instead of feeling like, okay, this three-minute program or this four-minute program, everything that I've been doing my entire life comes down to this moment. I think that they teach us to think when we watch the Olympics. It's like everything comes down to this. You watch the NBC promo and you believe.

Believe it. Oh, gosh. Like, this is real. But for us, you know, we have been dreaming about this for a long time. So if you tell the younger version of yourself that you're at the Olympics, I don't think that younger me or younger Maya would be like, oh, man, you should be nervous. It'd be like, wow. Like, that's amazing. And what if you had told younger Alex that the Philadelphia Eagles would defeat the New Patriots in the Super Bowl?

I'd be like, wow, Chris Ryan must be very happy right now. That's very kind. It's very kind. It's very fair. Katie Baker for the ringer wrote a really great feature about you guys. And there was a really cool part about it where I feel like I'm not exactly, I can't exactly remember the chronologically where it fell. But it seemed like you, you sort of started to understand that this is a sport where you can only control what you can control, right? And that you guys, even through that understanding, seemed to find a way to express yourselves more through your skating and find out, found a way to enjoy yourselves through that skating. Was there a specific point when that happened or was that something that developed over time after the last? last time you competed in the games? I feel like that since the beginning, that was advice that we've gone from coaches, from our parents, that really just focus on what's in your control.

You're doing this because you love it. You're doing it for the right reasons. And that should be enough. And so as you go through competitive experiences, we experienced a lot of success, but then also a lot of challenges. And so that's something that I feel like over time we kind of gain more of an awareness that, you know, we're not going against the clock. We're being judged when we're out there.

But we kind of, after 2014, that's when the real shift happened for us. Yeah, you hear something like that when you're 9 and 12, and it's like, just go out there and do your best. And it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, we want to win. And what you realize is that even if you put down a skate that's just the way you do in practice and you think that it's great and a lot of people agree with you, the judges might disagree for a variety of reasons. And so learning to be accepting of the process, and really embracing the process was what happened for us after 2014.

Our first Olympic Games was such an inspiring thing. Walking in the opening ceremony, being a part of something that's so much bigger than yourself, really changed our perspective about how we wanted to approach the next four years leading into the games in Pyeongchang. And I think it's kind of where it sort of cycles into what you guys do, talking about pop culture.

This is the important part. But really, I think we took a lot of, cues from creative people in other industries. Because for us, even from the very beginning, we stood out. We were different. You know, it's been probably gone over in the coverage a lot, but being a sibling team in ice dance. Yeah. You guys are related? Yeah. I never, okay, go on. Shibutani spelled the same way. Fascinating. I just thought it was a coincidence. But yeah, it always made us stand out and it was always kind of seen as a limiting factor because in our sport, whether it's, I mean, whether it's sports, or movie making, it's seen as a limitation.

And so what I've always said, like, I guess I'll backtrack a little bit. How much do you guys know about figure skating? I actually know... So much. Okay. Probably more than him. Well, so if you know anything about filmmaking, which I know you guys do, then you already know a lot about figure skating.

Because it's telling a story. It's telling a story. There are a lot of components that are very similar. This year when we were preparing for the Olympics, and this will kind of explain our process as far as how we were approaching things differently after 2014, we compared it to

trying to win the Academy Award for Best Motion Picture. It's apples and oranges. It's Get Out and Fish Movie. Right. You know, I mean, how are you supposed to compare that? There's an academy. There are voters in skating and there are judges. You have studios.

You were trying to cast the right people for the movie, the right story, the right music, the right costuming. All of these things are very similar. And so because there wasn't necessarily, a blueprint for us in figure skating to be like, oh, there's another brother-sister team. Yeah, right. Or there's another Asian team that we can, you know, copy what they're doing or look to what

they're doing. We look to film and television. And it's a televised sport. I mean, that was one of the things in Katie's piece that I thought was really interesting was the way it feels different watching it live and seeing you guys, you know, cross a huge rink of ice where when we're watching on television, it's these close-ups. And we're all watching these very technical aspects of what you guys are doing. but it's actually incredibly athletic to be going around in this huge circle.

I think it's safe to say that both of us on both sides of the table are very successful partnerships, you know, with so much in common in terms of international recognition and accolades. I was curious, though... I've definitely been carrying you since the 2012 games. It's really true. I'm just happy to be here. I was curious, though, I think there's a shorthand about the two of you that because you are related, that you obviously understand each other well, knowing siblings, I'm an only child,

but knowing siblings, that's not always the case that I would choose two siblings to get along well enough to be partners professionally as well. What is it, do you think, that makes a good ice dancing team that you also have, almost not necessarily either

because of or despite the fact that you're related? Yeah, I don't know if we can speak for all ice dancing teams, but as far as a partnership goes, I mean, Alex is three and a half years older than me, but ever since we started skating together, it's been that we're at the same level. And there's that respect.

And we don't have to be too cautious with how we give each other feedback. There's really no filter, which can be good and bad sometimes. It's like a really good basketball team. Yeah. Let's compare it to the 2008 Boston Celtics. I feel like there was a mutual respect between Kevin Garnett, Rayau, and Paul Pierce, and obviously Rondo hadn't quite hit his prime yet.

But he liked to give feedback. Sure, yeah. It's communication. Constructive feedback. Exactly. He's free with his thoughts. They talk on defense. We talk when we're in our process.

And that's really important. And she's lying. She was much better than me when we started. She's being very generous, and she doesn't have to be. You caught up really quickly. Yeah. But we learn, I mean, one of the important things is basics. And so because we started skating at around the same time,

we were learning from the same instructors. And, you know, the top three teams at this Olympic Games all have partnerships longer than 14 years. And that is very rare, actually. But I think that goes, you know, time and familiarity go a long way. Speaking of this whole of the entertainment industry, how aware are you guys when you're competing in the games of what we're seeing? So I were seeing it or seeing and talking about it. Well, okay. So the, um, Tessa and Scott became kind of a sensation because there was a lot of like not will they or won't they, but have they or haven't they?

Like are you aware that people over here are obsessed with that kind of stuff? Not too much. No. So you're in a little more of a bubble. Especially with the time difference. We were done competing in the morning. So it's not necessarily the first thing you do that you go through Twitter. Yeah. Because there was always something to do, whether it was practice or just getting ready for the next event. But they are, though, right?

Totally. I won't speak on that, but we've known Tess and Scott for a long time. They used to train with us. Right. And they... So you have not seen a love child is what you're saying. No, no, not at all. But their ceremony was beautiful and tasteful.

But so their genre of skating, they understand the roles that they play and what people are. people want to see from them. It's like when you have a great actress and a merman in a bathtub, you want to see them. You want to at least imagine that they are at a concert. Exactly. But they utilize that and they're really good at it. And they have a very close relationship just like we do because they've been skating together since they were young kids.

And so I think for a lot of the same reasons why people really embraced us because of our relationship and, you know, parents, their parents have been talking to us saying, oh, like, our kids maybe resent you a little bit because we were like nudging them saying, like, see, they get along with your way. they're doing. Right. But with them as well, I think it just provides another angle to who they are. So coming from the Olympics, what has the reentry been like for you?

Because obviously you've been on a whirlwind and people are, as are we very excited to see you and talk to you about your accomplishments and what this experience was like. But I can't imagine the whiplash because you've spent four years moving towards one event. The event went really well. And now there's this next phase. Would you like to speak on that, Mark? I mean, everyone's been really welcome. as soon as we got back.

I mean, when we were over in Korea, first of all, the audience there was incredible. It's the first games that's been in Asia, winter games that's been there for 20 years. And I think that everyone was just so excited about the future and the potential legacy heading into the next few Olympics. The other thing that's exciting about the Olympics

as opposed to a regular figure skating competition and not to, you know, dis any regular figure skating competitions. Other figure skating competitions are on notice right now. Yeah, I know. I know. I'm going to get so much flag for this. But the Olympics are just a completely different event. You have people from all over the world, people who are very, like, patriotic about their country, and, you know, you see hockey fans showing up at figure skating competitions. And they don't

follow the same audience etiquette as at a regular figure skating competition. So, like, we were going out to USA Chance, which was awesome. Like, growing up watching sports my entire life, that pumped me up. But it easily could have been like, oh, gosh, like, you know, country, you know. Did you guys go to anything? Did you guys go to a spectator? No, I live streamed the women's gold medal hockey game. We saw one thing. We saw short track for half an hour. Is that cool?

Yeah. I mean, we saw it in 2014, so much respect. Did you do a USA chant? Did you guys get into it? No, we didn't. They have this big, shh, before they start, yeah. Just so that they can hear the starting gun go off. Is there anyone in the Olympic Village who at just like 2 a.m. starts knocking on doors being like, let's hit the loose track.

Oh, yeah. Let's sneak in there and do it. You guys, I have a... Yeah. There was a knock at the door at 5 o'clock in the morning, six o'clock in the morning for anti-doping. That happens all the time. Oh, that sounds fun.

Yeah. Are you guys just like, are you kidding me? No, I mean, you know that you're going to be tested. Right, because you got I'm going to Echris on Netflix right now. I guess I guess I. Congratulations to Icarus. Yeah, right. I know.

Well, I wanted to ask you guys. So when you were at the games, what do you do to kill time? Like, what are you watching to kill time? Are you listening to stuff? Are you just walking around the village? Are you making friends? This feels like a setup. He's set up the lob and he wants me to slam it home.

The watch. There is. That's not what I meant. That's very nice to me. That's the moment you say binge mode. Yeah, cheers. Cheers. Were you guys, like, was there a show that you were watching that was like kind of like a safety blanket comfort zone or were you just watching or were you just watching new stuff or anything?

I wasn't watching too much because for me it's the Olympic Games. It comes once every four years. So I was trying to embrace the environment as much as possible because this. time around we had a lot of people that we already knew, so it's good to catch up with people. Yeah. But at the same time, meeting different athletes and hearing their stories, I mean, like Alex said earlier, there are screens everywhere showing competition. So you try and not get too emotionally drained or invested, but it's hard.

But it really is just kind of this refreshing environment to be in just because sports really do offer the world so much. Yeah, that's great. Alex is like, but I was watch, I was rewatching. 24. Yeah, Alex. Well, you should have seen. You know, I was trying to catch up on podcasts.

The reason why I listened to podcasts is because I can be doing other things. I don't have to be sitting down. I can be what? You're only okay at multitasking. Wow. If he's ever late, then I kind of blame you guys sometimes. Like, man, Alex, hurry it up. But so the morning after we finished competing, after we won our second medal,

I was catching up on, you know, the Black Panther episode of you guys. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, within the first 30 seconds of the interest, I'm like bleary-eyed. I'm just waking up. I just read your name at the top of my lungs. Yeah. So that was cool.

Yeah. I'll remember that. Did you guys get a chance to see Black Panther yet? We did. It was the first thing that we did when we got. We got back. I was wondering about that. And then we saw it in the afternoon.

Did that make you show USA USA also? Yes. Yes. At the end. But then we realized, wait, this is a Marvel movie. There are end credits. We need like to stay for the movies. Yeah.

I was wondering what the diet had been since you got back. Yeah. Of all the people that you met since you've been back, and particularly this Oscar weekend, you were out mingling, who among the celebrities is the most, like, low-key knowledgeable about ice dancing and other Olympic sports? Because I'm sure everyone becomes a casual fan. But are there people who are like, oh, you know, the Chinese judge really...

It hasn't gone that deep dive. But Michael Chickles was really great. Chickless. Yeah. Wow. The commission. He was so friendly and pulled this aside for a few minutes and just talked about how he really respected that like, because everyone's been sort of fed our background stories. So it's weird meeting people that you've seen on television and movies know a lot about you.

Although to be fair, you probably know a lot about them. It's kind of equal footing. That's true. But it was still a bit surprising. It's like, wait, you know this about us? Yeah, but it was very nice because he, you know, he understood that we've had to approach things in a different way. and he was just saying like, oh, whatever you end up doing, because he's like, I'm assuming you can't skate forever,

whatever you end up doing, it's going to be a skill and an experience that will help you in the future. What do you guys want to get out of this aspect of it? I mean, just because you are still skating, there are more competitions to come, which is very exciting, but there is this other track that goes on where you have opportunities to meet people and learn things. What excites you about that?

Well, really, it's actually happened in the last few years in our preparation for this games. we've tried to look outside the sport of skating, whether it's dance, music, even chefs that we've met. It's really just been so fascinating to meet people and hear what they're passionate about. And I think that it's really pushed us to grow personally. And I can't attribute all of our success to that,

but definitely leaving just the sport aspect has helped us a lot. Is that a dangerous thing that can sometimes happen, whether it's within the world of figure skating or any kind of sport where you kind of get tunnel vision about what you're doing in your whole life? I really think that's the tendency for most athletes, yeah. We always try to dip out as often as we can because everything that we've decided to do, whether it's creative stuff with social media or, I mean, we have a YouTube channel where, like, I'm able to kind of partially fulfill my wish to, like, make movies or, you know, small videos,

be creative in that sense. It applies back to when we're working on skating. And, you know, just the reason why we're so kind of focused and we listen to the podcast and we watch movies is because there's inspiration. Like when Sam S-Mail is doing the recap, the television recap, what he's done, actually, we specifically remember listening because you guys were asking him about Mr. Robot and how the first season was incredibly successful. And then the second season, there were some mixed reviews. People had built an expectation for what they wanted to see because they became attached to that first season and the storyline. And it was such an incredible piece of work that was brand new IP that I was. Actually, I was throwing out IP.

Really proud. At the party last night. That means a lot. That probably went over great. Yeah. It was great. It was great. It's got it all. But, you know, the second season and then preparing for a third season.

And that literally we applied that information that we learned to our programs for the past three years, unknowingly. In 2015, 16, we skated to Fix You by Colplay. And it was the first year that we had ever done anything that was personal storytelling. We were coming from a point in our career where we were very disappointed with the results, but optimistic about what we were capable of accomplishing. And that program was so well received where we knew that with two years to go before the Olympics,

we had to figure out how to continue to build momentum while also being ourselves. So we started to come up with this concept of a trilogy where we knew that part two or season two would need to be a natural dip and a slightly different direction, but that would then lead us. to, you know, that ultimate point where the characters are fully developed and reach

Paradise, which is what we skated to for our Olympic free dance this year. Do you want to now explain to people the part of season two when you were secretly in prison the whole time? Because that didn't come across in the days, but I got that vibe. That's right. That was good for the real heads. But I also have to say, this is terrific content for fans of the Watch expanded universe. Because when the other characters come on and they know each other and you're talking about

Sam, this is great crossover. Well, so here's even further. Part two, you guys didn't interview with, I'm forgetting his name, I feel terrible, but the leftovers, HBO. A Damon, yeah, Lindelof. Yeah, and so similar thing. You guys weren't so sure of the first season, and then you caught on in the second season, and then it finished in the third season. And so a lot of these stories that you see across, you know, media, television film, trilogies are relevant. You need time for the characters to go through an experience and then come out the other end.

And ironically, for our second program, the last year's program, we used music from the leftover soundtrack. Oh, no way, really? And we mixed it with Truman Sleeps from the Truman Show. And it's just funny how... We didn't know any of that before we chose the music, but just... And I don't want to put this all on like the watch podcast. Please, please do. I almost feel like there was sort of a subconscious thing in listening to some of this stuff

and learning from it and applying. I mean, it just shows that you have to look outside doing. Because in skating, it's unusual to link seasons or years or programs. But for us, starting in 2015, we were really personal about our skating. We knew that we wanted to be real with where we were at that moment. And so leading up to the games and being able to have that progression and build, I think that's also what made it so emotional to be at the Olympics, skating to paradise and skating the very best that we could.

And it's scary. The creative process is agonizing. Yeah. Especially when you're putting... Twice a week with him. Yeah. Well, especially when you're putting yourself out there. I mean, and figure skating, you are.

But for us, the way that we approached it, we were literally telling our story. We weren't telling the story of a movie or, you know, a musical. It was very much, if you don't like this, you maybe don't like us. Right. And that was an intense thing that we had to deal with. And it took time, but I'm just glad that we figured it out for the games. We don't want any spoilers, of course. But you alluded to the fact that you were in the...

Olympics four years ago. We just finished this Olympics. I imagine there was there's another Olympics in four years. Are you thinking of that as a part of the trilogy? Trilogies are big. I think that's very, very accurate thinking. Up until now, we've only been thinking about trilogy from the standpoint of how we were going to build to our Olympic deal. And so, you know, that story is complete. And we'll see where, I mean, it's. Now you have to reboot it. Well, it's the second question that we get asked. Gritty reboot. I feel like we're back in the mix zone with you guys. Yes. As soon as we get off the the first question is how did it feel? Yeah.

Looks great. Second question is, what's next? Four years from now. Yeah, God, it's impossible to think like that. And one of the things that we think is like, well, you said it.

I didn't turn it around on them then in the mix zone, but I feel like being like, so what are you doing in four years? Very fair. You just don't know. I will have shed the dead weight. We'll be doing Homeland Season 14.

No, just in a much help your place. I don't know if you're 76ers will be NBA champions. Wow. See, now you're really servicing the host. I appreciate that. We just want to thank you guys so much for coming by and congratulations so much on your success. It's really kind of inspiring to hear people think about these things in this way.

So it's just so awesome for you guys to take time. Yeah. And even if only a fraction of what you're saying about our influence is true, which I believe to be the case, I have to thank you guys because I have known my mother-in-law for almost two decades and nothing I have done as impressed her until Alex tweeted the name of my podcast. And you have no idea the good graces I'm in now. I'm happy to help.

huge for me. So we're all champions today. Thank you so much. Thank you. You guys. You guys, do you know you didn't have to bring us gifts? Thank you. No, that's why you want the extra one. It's only fair for all the watch promo that you guys have been doing for us. So I guess they're the heaviest ones that they've ever made. Are you allowed to put it on? Briefly, right? Yeah, yeah, for sure. How's that look? This is pretty good. This feels pretty good. A Super Bowl win for the Eagles and an Olympic medal. It's, this is very big of you because I was going to

Thank you so much. Wow. I was going to bring up, you know, now that we're really talking, now that I'm wearing you guys. This actually feels really comfortable. Yeah. Seriously. This makes sense now.

Your posture just improved, like, sitting straighter. This is probably the question you guys get a lot. Is it heavier than you expect it to be later? Yes. And I think a lot of people think that too. Yeah. Yeah.