The Watch - ‘Succession’ and Updates on ‘Y: The Last Man’ and ‘Briarpatch’ | The Watch (Ep. 274)

Episode Date: July 12, 2018

The Ringer’s Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald catch up and discuss a few exciting updates for Andy’s upcoming television pilot, ‘Briarpatch’ (3:30), before covering some casting news from FX’s ‘Y: The Last Man’ (11:00). Finally they revisit the show ‘Succession’ and their enjoyment of the season thus far (25:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I need sports to have to clear the room. Stand up and walk now. Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at the ringer.com and joining me in the studio. He's all out of Bertrand Russell quotes. It's Andy Greenwald. Chin up, lads.

We are fresh off of England's loss in the World Cup to Croatia 2-1. How you do, buddy? I'm okay. I'll be all right. I want you to know that Zach and I have a couple extra bags of blood. It might be equine blood. Unclear, but we can hook you up to that if you need. It did seem suspicious that the Croatian team was able to muster this effort after, I think, back-to-back extra time games and then just played another one.

I don't want to... And there was a big scrum by that photographer, and God knows what that photographer slipped those dudes. I've been to Croatia. I know how it goes. Are you familiar with the geographic and martial history of that region? I'm just saying they've endured some stuff. You know what I mean? Like, they've played the long game for a while,

so I don't think it's that big of a deal for them to just... To play three long soccer matches. To just run for 700 minutes. Yeah, I was obviously... I was cheering for England. They're going home. Can we also just take a moment before we get into the rest of our day?

Sure. In our agenda, just to pour a little out of this horseblood. For Justin Timberlake, who has been a fan of the English national team for just over 30 hours now. Was he really? I got a push alert.

Oh, I just occurred to me that we're recording this on Wednesday and this isn't coming out until Thursday. But in any days. People will probably figure that. Yeah, right. I got a push alert on my cellular telephone. It was like moments you missed. And it said, Justin Timberlake announces he's an England World Cup fan

right before playing the O2 Arena or whatever. It's like, what a hero. What a hero. He is the fourth lion. Why do you get push alerts about moments? I don't know. I've since revisited my self. settings.

Luckily, I got a other push alert in the form of a hungry baby. Literally, they woke me up before that push alert woke me up. But yeah. So, I mean, that's a tough one. Just be like, not only am I supporting this national team, but I'm going to pause my concert so we can all just watch this glorious moment together. And so now he has to go on and play fucking Man of the Woods. Can you imagine what an hell that is?

Andy, we were both away on Monday. We were in the other desert cities. Yeah, we were in separate. Desert Cities. You were in Albuquerque and I was in Las Vegas. I was in Las Vegas for NBA Summer League and for a ringer takeover of Caesar's Palace, which was very fun. Seems like a huge success. Can I ask you, did you engage with any culture there? And by that, I mean, did you see any Cirque de Soleil shows? No. Or did you spot a slots machine that is branded from a sitcom that doesn't make any sense? No, in Las Vegas, humanity really is the greatest theater. You know what I mean?

There was a, at Cesar's, there was a, this guy, Travis Pistrana was doing a motorcycle jump. That's an extreme sports dude, right? Yeah. So there was a lot of people there when I was leaving. He's just doing the one jump. There was a lot of people waiting outside of Cesar's in 115 degree heat. To see a dude on a motorcycle jump. Yeah. Okay.

So there was that, you know, had a great time. Lovely time. Great time. I left up $90. That's huge. That's a win. Yeah. Should I ask how?

how many dollars in total were in play for this? No. Did you grow the 90 out of just a... The 90 is in the black. So we can leave it at that. Can we? Okay. All right.

We'll leave it at that. How is your weekend, though? Things are great. I'm out there scouting. Yeah, these people may have seen and some news coming on the briar patch front. I thought we were going to get a... I thought you were going to say your name.

You say the name. I can't say it like you say it. I mean, it's just all set up for you. People teed it up on Twitter. But you're low energy today a little bit. I'm a little bit. Sad that I'm very excited about Rosario Dawson. Yeah, so I'm very excited.

I'm not announcing it. It was announced yesterday. Rosario Dawson is the star of the show that I'm writing, making. It's a pilot for USA called Briar Patch. I couldn't be more excited. She's super dope. I think she's a tremendous actor, and I'm really excited, hopefully,

to give her a chance to do some different stuff. Yeah. And, yeah, it was an Albuquerque scouting. And it's interesting. You know, I mean, it's a town I'd never been to. Are you familiar with New Mexican Mexican cuisine? Yeah, so I went to Santa Fe last year. Oh, yeah.

I think last year, maybe two years ago. And it's heavy. Yeah, because they don't do a lot of like a light lunch. No, they're, what impress me most, like this is like the real commitment to the bit is like you get the enchiladas and they're like, okay, we're going to make it. It's a standard enchilada and it's quite large and then put some cheese on top and they'll throw the beans next to it. And you know what's on the other side of the enchilada?

Potatoes. Fucking potatoes. You know what I mean? They're like, let's really lay down a base. Yeah. And then, and then just in case, you know, you're feeling a little loggie, like midway through the meal, our server brought out a basket of hot puffed donut bread called soap of Pias. And they're like, and here's a squirt bottle of honey. See, here's the thing about.

It was pretty amazing. One thing I remember there was a, the Bordain episode we were talking about a couple weeks ago that was set in Cajun country. And the guy was explaining it to Bordean where he's like, you know, the reason why the food is constructed in this way, these really, really heavy, heavy rice, just like stews and great, deep, thick gravies is because this was the meal you ate once and then worked with your hands in the field for 13 hours. Yeah, like, like, and that now we're like, oh, I think I'll dabble in a bit of old Santa Fe cuisine. and then you get on Twitter. There's no energy expended. Let me do you one better. Let's not get on Twitter.

Let's load into a poorly ventilated van with three executives, a director, two local scouts in your boy. And just drive around for like five to nine hours. In New Mexico summer. In a hundred degree heat. So, you know, it was a memorable trip. No, it's great.

This is a very exciting time. There's more stuff to announce coming soon. I hope to share. I want to share the information with the people. But so far, everything's going great. I'm just curious about the process. I'm curious about the process. I know you can only talk about it so much. Yeah, hit me. Hit me. What do you know? No, I just mean like, you know, so when you got there, right? So I think one thing that people don't really understand is that, or not even, maybe they do understand, but you may write for a certain place,

like you're writing your script about a certain place. But there's a limited amount of places that can really support like television shows, be it because they're too expensive or because they have the infrastructure laid in. Albuquerque, obviously, is the host. of several shows, most notably the Breaking Bad, better call Salt Empire, but other shows shoot down there, other movies and shot down there. Yeah. And I was curious about what it was like going someplace and knowing like this is going to be the stand-in for what I saw in my life. Yeah, it's really interesting because the show, so Briar Patch, the pilot I wrote is set in Texas and in West Texas. So the landscape is quite similar, which is great. But it is, it is.

Wait, is the book, a Houston? No. No, it's not. about the book is that it's an unnamed town that people have assumed is Oklahoma City, because that's where Ross Thomas was from. Oh, okay. So I moved it a few clicks west, more than a few. And, but yeah, but it is an interesting process because the landscape and the climate is similar in a lot of ways, but you have to work with what you've got. And one of the things about New Mexico, which is there are, we found a lot of stuff that's

going to work. And then you find like a Pueblo style house that's turquoise with a cocopelli on the line. you're like, that's a giveaway. You're going to have to shoot around that a little bit. But yeah, it is an interesting process. And I'll continue to talk to people about this as interest exists. But you write a pilot, you write a script, and it is a closed document. Basically, you can work on it for as long as you wish, and you can tinker with it,

and you can write anything you want in terms of what the people look like, what the places they inhabit look like, what it feels like. And then, if you are lucky enough to get it to this stage, the document opens up again and it becomes a living organism. Yeah, right. And it has to connect. And other people have to connect to it, and other people have to work on it and get their hands in it and mess around with it.

And all of a sudden, that perfectly scripted scene that you wrote set in a, you know, I'm not even going to throw out an example because I don't want to give anything away, but suffice to say that the exact... Does it involve an infinity stone dude? Well, no, well, luckily they've all been collected in one place. It's that... In Albuquerque. In Albuquerque, you'd be surprised.

It's that the place you imagine specifically doesn't exist. And so then what? So then I think generally when you bring other people into something, it becomes more alive and becomes better. But it's been really fun and really fascinating to see something that had been fixed for so long, suddenly become super fluid. And I'm excited to get back. I mean, we've been talking on the pot, I think, more so in the last year or year and a half about expectations. I think because of the nature of the way that things get built up in our heads and then we get the final product and we're sort of like, oh, did this live up to or fall short of what our expectations were? the hype cycle too much for it.

And I was thinking about this in terms of a couple of pieces of casting news that I wanted to run by you. Is it Rosario Dawson? Well, no. But I was wondering also, I imagine that there's also an element of that in your head where like there's like this creative process where you're sitting in front of final draft and you're like jumps through the time hoop, you know? And then you're just like, okay, now I have to make a time hoop.

That's weird. Like this is like, and you can kind of see why these super expensive productions just are like, we're just going to go to Pinewood and just build this shit. You know what I mean? Like, when you see Star Wars and they're just like, we're just taking over three sound stages and everything you see, we're going to have a team of experts just construct out of whole clock. It's pretty interesting. But yeah, I was, I think for, especially for something like Thomas that's so atmospheric and so rooted in a place, I was imagining that that would be like the thing that would be the first like, oh, okay, we've got to figure this out. The best thing so far

is to have a fixed idea for a location in my mind as I did for one particular place. And then you're taken to see something in Albuquerque. And it makes no sense in any level. Why is this building exist? What was this building? What's it doing now? There's no place for this in anything I've ever written unless you suddenly, you sort of squint and you look a little bit sideways. And you think this could be so much more exciting if this was it.

And you're like interior, Dr. Stranges salon. Wong removes the time hoop. Prepare yourself, Stephen. It's time for the hoop. No, but the same thing with the Rosario News. I cannot believe that we got someone as talented and exciting as her involved, and it makes every part of... She's a legend, man.

She's a total legend, and I am excited. Like, I just feel like it makes everything that I could hope to do better. That's awesome. Storytelling-wise, and even within this. Rosario is not the only news, so let's just talk about a few things. One was, we just talked about this. So I wanted to talk about why the last man on FX. Moving forward, it's really happening.

Because we brought this up in our, what's going to be the next game of Thrones, and this was your nomination. It was. And they just did some casting news. Yes. So they basically did one of those big, big info dumps and said all of the major roles all at once. And what was interesting about this was there are a couple ways it could have gone.

Why the Last Man, for people who don't know, it's a 60-issue comic book series published by Vertigo a decade ago written by Brian K. Vaughn, who also created Runaways and Saga, and the artist Pia Gera. And it's about a guy named York who appears to be the last man left alive after something wipes out every other man. You would, one might think,

knowing the comic book, that the casting of Yorick would be the focus in getting a big star, a big name to move the ball forward, which is not always the best route, but that's what I assumed. In fact, they've gone the opposite direction. And the headliner is Diane Lane,

playing a senator who is the character of York's, the character's mom. Okay. And also Imogen Putes, who's been in a bunch of stuff playing his sister. She's great. This is a terrific cast. What's interesting to me is... She's particularly good in Green Room, if you haven't seen that.

You know I haven't seen that. Yeah. Thank you for calling me out. You're going to make me say his last name. This is like, it's hard for me... I think it's Barry Keegan. Barry Keegan. I think so.

Let's just go with that. That sounds great. Yeah. I mean, we couldn't get Kieran Heinz for like four years. So I feel like there's no way we get it right in the first go. It might be Kayegan. It might be like... like a variety of, but I'm going to go, I'll go with that.

FX landed Barry Kagan to play York Brown. Now, this is not a headlining name, but this is a fascinating. Yeah, he was in killing of a sacred deer. He was in Dunkirk. He lost his vision in Dunkirk and then lost quite a bit more. Yes. All to bring the boys home. Fascinating actor, who has made a lot of exciting choices and is clearly,

clearly beloved by worthwhile filmmakers. And to get someone like that to play this part. part, I think, is a coup for FX, but it's not the kind of coup. It's not like a headlining coup, but it's just a smart. It's a smart. Who's running a show? In talent. So Michael Green, who, um, he's written everything.

He's written everything recently. Logan, um, the last Blade Runner movie. Covenant, I think. Yeah. Worked on Covenant. Um, did American Gods with Neil Gaiman is, I think he'd written the pilot years ago and he's co-show running with, uh, Aida Mishaka Kroll, who's worked on Luke Cage. Um, and it's also coming from

Nina Jacobs and Brad Simpson who do Color Force. They work with Ryan Murphy on the American Crime Story shows and on Pose. It's just a deep bench, and I think it's a smart casting play. They also cast Lashana Lynch, who is going to be a bigger name after Captain Marvel comes out. Julianna Canfield, whose credit listed here is Succession. I actually don't know who she plays on Succession, but it's relevant to the rest of our gig. And also, Marin Ireland, whom I love.

Love her. Real standout from Chris's, I believe, ninth best show. of 2017, Sneaky Pete. I think they're doing this the right way. I think that this is a show that's being put together, not with the goal of being a Game of Thrones necessarily, at least in terms of the fireworks

that's leading to its arrival. Sure. But look at Game of Thrones. They just cast well. And that did not get the attention it deserved at the time because a lot of these people were unknowns and they were kids

who were going to grow into these characters. Yeah, absolutely. So I am still excited about the show. Speaking of which, did you see that Masey William, She wrapped on Thrones? They wrapped her. They wrapped her out.

Yeah, and people were worried that she had posted a spoiler. Oh, because, like, as if she was wrapped out of existence? No, more like she was like, I got this. I have a question. I'm going to put you on the spot for it. Right. Can't have a spoiler if you don't know how it ends. So I'm just, we're speculating.

When did the last Game of Thrones season finale air? Last, not this past NBA finals, but the previous one. During the NBA playoffs or finals. Of 2017. Right? I have no idea. was legitimately asking you. You could have told me it was.

It was August sec? July 16th. I don't. It feels like a billion years ago. And there's just going to be six more two hours each about. Something like that. So it's just going to be six weeks of movies watching the show. That is, we haven't talked to, you know, we'll continue to dip in and out.

But that in and of itself is kind of radical. I mean, there has not been, everyone knows how much I like to complain about episode length, which is one million percent going to bite me, yes, if I get to make episodes on television. But of all the things the Game of Thrones has asked us to do and change the way we watch TV, getting people to buckle up for just six weeks of collective blockbusters is pretty unprecedented.

Yeah, absolutely. That is going to be dominant and all-encompassing in a way that I didn't even appreciate just for this year, not just the budget and the story, but for the length of time and commitment. It's exciting, but it's very, it'll definitely pose like a challenge also to the culture around and I'm sure the binge guys are already thinking about this

in terms of how you process that length I mean even I think at this point people are probably a little bit more adept at that stuff I mean the average succession which we're going to talk about in a few minutes is like an hour and five so it's like I think that episode length is kind of just tipping more and more into longer and longer episodes but yeah two hours of Game of Thrones every Sunday is going to be like a lot to process especially for something as dense,

and each random line could have like this huge ripple effect through the history and future of the show. And also, as we learned from covering it live after each episode last year, I mean, it's not as if there are bottle episodes. Yeah. It's not as if there's an hour of John Snow just chatting about stuff.

Much of my shagrin. Moving his story forward. There are, it's basically a collection of, I don't even know how many scenes per episode, but six to eight major storylines being advanced incrementally. Right. And there were many times last year and we would co-live.

And I would have to be reminded what happened in the first 11 minutes. That's actually been the biggest challenge of doing those shows is forgetting things that happen within the episode itself. Yeah, right? I mean, it's just a,

it'll be an interesting test of the rapid response culture system that we have in place with this country. What other hot news do we have out there? Well, this one's a little bit more of like a niche, but I think it's our niche, so we have to mention it. Let's cozy up in it.

Netflix is going to release a movie in 2019 called In the Shadow of the Moon. Oh, it's a movie? Yeah. Netflix movie. And I'm already excited for this because I'm really into Jim Mickle. Jim Mickle did Cold in July, but he also directed and worked on Hap and Leonard, which was an underrated show that's been on for a couple of seasons, Michael K. Williams. And now he's got this movie in the Shadow of the Moon.

And it stars Boyd Holbrook as a Philly police detective hunting a serial. Killer, played by Michael C. Hall. Every so often, you incept something. You know, I really believe that. It's weird when that happens, though. Like, are you, have they reached out to you yet? Because you have a good relationship with Netflix. Have they reached out to you yet

just to ask you to be on set? To be like, an ambassador, a brand ambassador? Like a dialect coach, kind of like a, like a tasty cake. I don't think anybody should hire me to help them pronounce anything. That's a fair, that's a fair point. But like, don't you think that before he shows up on set, like, he just needs to

watch the like there's that news van again commercial on YouTube. The dude with a diamond in his beard. Yeah, like he needs. Yeah. Because let me tell you something. It's a landmine. It is a landmine asking someone to be from Philadelphia. I think you just stay away.

That is usually what happens, right? Just duck it. Do you remember? That would be really great if Michael C. Hall went like full Philly. Yeah, I'm a serial killer. What are you doing? Wait. Hold on a second.

You see the last season of Dexter? Michael C. Hall just did a show. I was in it. You're getting there. Michael C. Hall just did a show on Netflix that we, 1,000% ignored, called Safe, where I believe he's just English in it. And, like, that is next level acting when you just show up on set and you're just like, no, I'm stunting. Like, I'm going to do this here. You don't have to do it, man.

Even if you've set the show in London, how hard is it for a writer to be like, he moved from New York? It doesn't matter, right? You don't have to do it. Right. It is usually an unforced error. And that's why I have an enormous amount of respect. What was it, first season of House of Cards? When Corey Stoll was on House of Cicke, it was first season.

Oh, yeah. And he's a, you know, he has one of, if not the juiciest role. He's a Philly Congressman, right? And he's a Philly Congressman. And you know what he didn't do? A Philly accent? Try. Yeah.

Like, didn't even try. And then when they show him going back to his district, and everybody's just kind of vaguely mid-Atlantic. Yeah. You know what I mean? Because they shot it in Baltimore, probably. They shot in Baltimore. But Baltimore accents very close.

The Balmer accent. They're in the same, the Delaware-Baltimore-Filly accent is in the same mix. And the reason being, I didn't know this. The ports of Baltimore and Philadelphia, the same British sailors

showed up, and they said, where have you guys just come from? And they're like, we were sailing on the water. There was so much water. Get the river, get on the shore.

There's the ocean. I was on the ocean in the water. And then the rest of the country's like, Now people sounded in like the colonial days when they were just on the water. They were, listen, it took a long time. Do you understand? Yeah, and you hear about these up in Boston

and you just put all the tea in the water? The tea's in the water. Come on. 40? All right. This is disgraceful for Philadelphia for you and I. Are you saying we're better than this? Because let me just report right now.

We are not. Did you want to say, so we're going to table glow. So here's what we're going to do. You know, like last week, I think we promised to do a chapter watch of Glow. Right? We were going to do three episodes, three episodes, three episodes. I have to tell you something.

Oh, no. I had planned to catch up on a lot of television in Las Vegas. What? Did you really? Did you never... Did they not tell you where you were going? No, I knew. I mean, like, I just thought like, you know, it's like I'll go be back in beds.

It's going to be like midnight. I'll fire up a couple episodes. Just cozy up? Wasn't midnight. Yeah. Is that what you're telling me? Yeah. So I'm a little behind on Glow.

So we're going to table glow to on. next week. Also, Sharp Objects obviously came out last Sunday. We're going to get to it next Monday after we've seen two episodes. People are obviously talking about it. There's a lot to say about it. Yeah, and I think that for a show like this that is so dependent on tone, I want to see another episode. Because I think that a pilot's, you know, we've talked about this before, and I'm saying this mindful of the fact that I'm trying to make one, there's pilot fatigue. And it's difficult to sustain any kind of mood for more than one episode. And it's difficult to gauge one's relationship to a show at this point now that they're all

being built for longer runs. I would say to you and to anyone. I've not watched more than one episode of Sharp Objects. But I'm on team. Give Stuff a chance now. Wow. Because shows get better sometimes. And I think you agree with me because of the show we're about to talk about next.

Yeah, I agree with you. I agree with you that we should be more patient because I got to tell you, Chris. And I'm sorry to all the Sharp Object fans that we are yada yodding a major show of 2018. We're going to give it its due attention on money. I can't believe the 180 I've pulled here. I know. I didn't think I still had one in me. We'll take a break from our sponsors and then we're going to let you,

we're going to let you just ride around the track a couple of times. Today's episode of The Watch is brought to you by HBO's Sharp Objects. When a young girl disappears from rural wind gap, Missouri. Reporter Camille Praker is sent to investigate whether the case is linked to an unsolved murder. From the author of Gone Girl, the producer of Get Out, and the director of Big Little Lies, comes the HBO limited series Sharp Objects based on the best-selling novel by Gillian Flynn. Amy Adams stars his reporter Camille Praker, whose proximity to the investigation, Chile Mother and Mysterious Half-Sister bring her own scars to the surface.

Hailed as a top-of-the-line detective story and truly twisted by variety, Sharp Objects also features Patricia Clarkson, Chris Messina, and Eliza Scanlan. Watch new episodes every Sunday at 9 p.m. And catch up on the latest episodes on HBO Now. Today's episode of The Watch is brought to you by Gillette. Andy, I don't know if you know this about me, but it's a little bit of an effort for your boy to produce facial hair. I've often wondered if I could get away with a mustache. Could you get to the point of getting away with it?

That's my real question. That's the thing. But it's not like I don't need to shave. I shave two or three times a week. And since it's two or three times a week, some people shave every morning, some people shave, you know, whenever. I'm shaving right now.

I treat shaving like some people might treat bath time. You know? I like light a candle. Wow. Some scents going, but I always have my Gillette razor. There it is. I go for clean shaven precisely because your boy cannot get the goatee going. I figure by the time I get the goatee in,

they might be back in stock. What do you think? I think you should just go for the Van Dyke. Ethan Hawk Reality Bites. Oh, that's always classy. Personally, I use the Gillette Mach 3. I always have, and I use the gel. Because, you know, cream is good, but I like the gel.

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and find Gillette 5 at Gilletteondemand.com. Subscribe today. All right, we are back. Andy. Yeah. You've really turned about on this show. Like, I was in, and you were just like, do we need a show like this?

Do I like these people? I was a bear transformed into a beautiful bull. Yeah. You're like Jim Kramer. You're bye, bye, bye, bye. It's not just that I was, I don't even think I had strong reactions to the first three episodes.

You know, as we learned, we, the collective people who listen to me talk about this stuff, one of the lessons of my 180 on the leftovers, which was obviously slower building, was I really, really, really, really had strong feelings about that. Yeah, so it elicited something. It elicited something strong, and hatred is just another way to keep things close to you. Succession was not doing any of that for me. I found it strangely flat at times and also I thought it was a little bit presumptuous.

I had the feeling that it was assuming a relationship with me in the audience that it hadn't earned. How dare you, sir. An investment in this family, in these characters, in this world that I just couldn't quite repay. Or I didn't think it was, I couldn't buy all the way in. Something changed for me in the, is it the fifth episode, I believe.

That's the one where Greg drives you in from Canada. Yes. Now, maybe it's the presence of character actor legend. Cromwell? James Cromwell. Being driven in a car for 12 hours listening to a economics podcast. Maybe it was just that I really respected the show's commitment to cherry picking the spiciest moments,

meaning let's just get to Thanksgiving. Because of course, Thanksgiving would be a powder keg. It is often in families who don't own billions of dollars worth of stock. It's the second dinner of the season, though. It's because the first season, the first episode also opens with a big dinner, right? So, like, it shows the growth of the show for you. You throw Cromwell in it. It helps a lot.

But there is also just a little bit more of a freewheeling sense of fun for me, which I think the show made clear that it was interested in doing, but it was in the first few episodes, it hadn't quite earned it with me. You know, it felt smug in the way that we were all supposed to sort of love and be appalled by Roman, Kieran Culkin's character. I just felt it was presumptuous, but maybe that's confidence that I misread. I think it's calibration, man.

I think that these shows are not all, I don't think that they all go into a vacuum and just never adjust anything over the course of a production. One million percent now. And you can see that in Romans taking down a little bit. of spice. It's just like they removed a little bit of spice from Kieran Culkin's performance. He still is withering and self-serving and self-centered. He was Thai spicy the first two episodes. He was like, I'm trying to win every scene every time I step on in the camera. And now he's just like, I know exactly what I'm doing. I think that there was a real collision between a kind of deep

sense of humor of where the characters have a level of self-awareness about the scenario, if not themselves, that they're constantly kind of saying things to each other that you don't really think people in that position would say. And in VEP, they fully commit to that beat bit. And in this show, I felt like it was colliding with the soap operatic stuff, sort of the more of the family intrigue stuff.

And that's all smoothed out. I've really enjoyed this show from the beginning. I love this show now. I think it's kind of almost approaching belt territory. I don't know if there's a more confident show on TV right now, a show that knows more of what it is, and a show that is so ceaselessly entertaining to me. Yeah, I was, I felt it awakening inside of me in episode five

and then surprised myself further by just immediately firing up six and felt deeply rewarded by it. Yeah. I really enjoyed it. When's the last time you felt that way? Let's run it back. Let's go right again with a new one. It's been a while, right?

It's been a minute. And it's building in a fun and exciting way, obviously, with a disastrous vote of no confidence that played out in this week's episode. Right. I think we need to steer the praise in a couple directions. Just one quick, one quick plot it.

I want to give to terrific, consistent, underappreciated character actress, Jay Smith Cameron, who plays the role of Jerry, who's the head of legal for the company. Some of you might remember her from her tremendous, tremendous performance across all the seasons of rectify.

You also might know her as Oscar nominated. Oscar winning, maybe. Kenneth Lonergan. Filmmaker player at Kenneth Lonergan's better half. She's just so, it's just these little things that make a difference. When you cast someone like her who is, if you saw the words that she was given on the page, I don't think, and you had never seen this show, I don't think you would even notice them. I think that they generally move the ball forward and they, you know,

best deliver some nice dialogue dimes to the stars of the show. She brings this jittery, vulnerable, steely, unique energy to it that keeps it going. And similarly, I don't know when this happened, Chris. But sometime in the last two weeks, I have become a dedicated Tom and Shiv shipper. I love that story. I love those two. I love... The pre-up discussion is like among the funnier things I've seen this year. First of all, let's just say these actors, Let's say their names. Sure. Matthew McFadden.

And Sarah Snuck. First of all, let's throw off the curtain and let people in on the degree of difficulty here. Neither American, one British, one Australian, slaughtering the accent game. Yes. Murdering it. Incredible. The Minnesota to New York accent that McFadden's doing right now is really something. He's like, I'm Minnesota nice, but I'm also just like, I'm going to skull fuck you.

There is an intensity to both of their performances, again, like, this is, this is a credit to Jesse Armstrong, who is running the show and Adam McKay and all the people involved, that they calibrated this or recalibrated this well. Because you're right, like, they're all bubbling now on very exciting frequencies, right, in temperatures. I don't even know which metaphor I want to use. But I love their relationship. I love the way the show allows them to be genuinely affectionate towards each. each other. Sure. And also completely using each other. Manipulating one another.

In ways that because of the way the rest of the world works around them almost feels comforting. Sure. It's, now we need to talk about your MVP. Yeah, man. It's Nicholas Braun playing Greg Hirsch. Because this guy should not, I don't usually like the audience

avatar character. I don't like the person who's like, I'm just getting, I'm stepping into this crazy world. It's the same way you are. It seems like you don't like ladies here in Gilead. Nope. Yeah. This is not how it's going, man. Like, cousin Greg is really, really, really one of the finds of the season.

And him doing the shredding and listening to rap and being like, Greg is chopping it up. Greg is chopping it out. Well, he's like, what does he say where he's just like, he was talking to, he's like, Tom, I don't know. This seems like some Watergate shit. And I don't really know what happened there, but I know those guys got fucked. And then his liner is just like. It's like, I know that I wouldn't want to be a cow because they get like shot in the head with an air gun. But they're not overtipping it.

You know, I think that that's, I know. He seems like it would, it kind of has become like, oh yeah, this guy would just be around. Yeah. And the dynamic of him and Tom is really well articulated because the person who is a dormat at family dinner can become an apex predator. when in the presence of this human plankton. And the scene where Tom teaches Greg how to be rich and the pleasures of being rich, leading to what I think, you know, you were mentioning Veep,

them dancing alone in the VIP bottle service section. And Greg's like, so you just sit here and drink by yourself? And he's like, isn't it great? That's them letting the doors open a little bit. Yeah. That's the Veep stuff that I now appreciate the calibration of because it could not just be that. And we keep saying Veep.

I mean, Jesse Armstrong, who is co-created or created the show and is running the show, comes from the Armando Yanucci. Yeah, worked on the trick of it. Yeah. So that's there. But articulating it over the long haul as a challenge. I'm enjoying it. And I just didn't know where that came from. So bring me in, and by extension, bring in the pod family now.

What's the chatter? What's the goss? Like, what are people saying about succession? What's the line of conversation around the show? lot of confidence about this show going into the season. That was why I had heard is that HBO and that other people who had seen several episodes were very into it.

And then they renewed it quite quickly. I think that there was some resentment. There was an initial wave of not so into this show from critics. And that like I don't really know why I would keep watching this show, et cetera. And I think that you articulated something a couple weeks ago, which was given the state of the world

right now, it's hard to lionize these people who are just so ceaselessly self-serving and destructive. And I get that. But I think that it is one of the few shows that I have watched that is both intellectually stimulating while also not making me want to

carve a hole in my head because it's so depressing to be watching. And that's not like a shot at Handmaid's Tale, but it is a shot at Handmaid's Tale. And, man, it's not like I'm lionizing these characters, but I do think that there's a lot going on under the surface, especially in the performances, as we've alluded to.

And at the center of it, actually emerging slowly too, and I think at a proper pace is the dynamic between Brian Cox and Jeremy Strong. And the Kendall relationship to his father. And the Kendall Logan relationship. And Jeremy Strong is very divisive.

His performance has been very divisive in a way that I don't quite think I've seen, gosh, since maybe Groff on Mine Hunter. You know what I mean? I think that's right. I think they're both extremely unique lead performance. Yes. And I think you keep waiting for Kendall to be a certain kind of person.

And I'm sure he will check some of the boxes that people are waiting for him to check. But there is so many different things from this sort of hilarious guy who's like, I need some altitude on this and, you know, like screwing up his company by going into business as Stewie and making wrong moves. And like even the way he tries to like power move on you in. And then he spends that whole elevator ride back up and watching him. like you're going to expose me is he just such a great job

and even the things like having the like his relationship with his son and his ex-wife and their relationship to Logan and everything is complicated. It's really nuanced. It's not just straight up like here's a bad guy who wants to be good

or here's a good guy who's doing bad. It's like this weird like here's a guy who's budding his head up against the limits of his own intelligence. And the show is has, this is not a surprise with Adam McKay behind it. The show is certainly not afraid of suggesting that you need to be a complete

fuck up, lunatic, single-minded weirdo to even tread water in this world. Yes. This world that probably shouldn't necessarily exist anyway. The last thing I'll say about it is this. If there's a lot of risk involved with making a show about Goliath instead of David,

but if you are going to make a show about Goliath, take Goliath-sized swings. And a show that in the sixth episode of its first season can completely upend the recently established status quo as it did with the board vote of no confidence. And Logan's roaring back and just decimation of the board and family all in one fell swoop is exactly what you want if you're going to be investing capital in this show.

I want a show that it can do something like that and then try to scrabble its way back to status quo or a new status quo. Yeah. I would rather that than seeing them play around tiki tech stuff. on the margins of like working together to salvage the family name because what value is any of it. I hope that we'll be able to have, and I think we probably will be able to have someone like, like Jesse in to talk about this because the other aspect of appreciation that I'm gaining is the conversations they must have had ahead of time of how to balance this, where to pinpoint

where they wanted to start, where they wanted to get to and how not to tip too far in any direction. And so now I begin to think of what I thought of as presumptuousness or reticence or whatever in the first of you episodes was calculation. And that's the sort of thing that you might miss if you tap out too early. I felt like what they were doing in the beginning was the equivalent of having an early season. You have like a big rotation of guys playing on a basketball team. So you're playing 10 people. Do you just want to see what the combinations look like? You want to see how certain people respond in different scenes and in different, you know, is this person comic relief?

Is this person, can this person carry a dramatic moment? How do we use somebody like Brian Cox who obviously has a huge on-screen presence? But we're going to limit him and his ability to communicate throughout most of the first season. Because you come there expecting to find this, you know, this wizard because that's who this guy

is set up to be this Murdochian kind of patriarch. And he's crippled, you know, literally crippled. So it's been a series of very interesting choices. And now I think as we get further and further into the season, you see them shortening the bench. And I think that they're deploying people. Alan Ruck comes in, does his bit.

You're not going to have Alan Ruck really run another episode aside from the dinner scene, the dinner episode, you know? Love Alan Ruck. I love Alan Ruck too. But like that character is very good for five minutes an episode. Yeah. You know, it's not like you don't want him making major decisions. And the same thing goes, it's like ultimately at the end of the day,

I think it's the Shiv Roman Kendall Trio with Logan and Marcia kind of fighting each other with top. and and Greg providing a lot of comic relief on the sides. They're like the Rosencrantz and Gilenstern. Before we move on, I have to ask. I really what comic relief means, but good. Have you ever read Shakespeare, bro? When I arrived here today to watch England's dreams crash and burns all around them,

there was some chatter going on when I got there. And Jeff Chow, who I believe is the president of the company. Yeah. Turn to me. He was rooting for England, but he took his eyes off the ball for a moment, much like England's defenders did on that second goal by Croatia. And he wondered if there was some Tom and cousin Greg to our relationship. Now, I'm definitely Greg.

Yeah, but I want to know how you feel about that and why you think he said that. I'm all good with it. I think because you and I are both like, you're definitely Tom because you got bits. But don't you think I'm Tom because I would eat the bird underneath a napkin before you did? And then I would also,

I'm the kind of guy who would give an old man a 12-hour ride from Canada. I think you actually would do that. Yeah. What would you throw on the stereo before you found Planet Money or whatever? I don't know.

Like disintegration loops or something. Would you, and what hour would you give up making small talk? Because I feel like you are an engaging guy. I actually wouldn't, I don't press. Like if somebody wants to talk,

we can talk. I wouldn't make the small talk, though. I wouldn't ask questions. In fact, if somebody was like, I don't want to talk, I would just be like, cool, we can just listen to like Franceso the entire time. So, like, at some point in late August, when you get a call for me in Albuquerque, and I'm like, can you come by the production office? There's just some stuff in accounting.

I just need someone to look at. Like, would you mind? Rosario knows about it. It's cool. Would you get in the car? Because also, I did Google this when I'd Google this right after the flight fee, very bumpy flight landed. I was just like,

just out of curiosity. Could I, could I hop in the old, the old hybrid and get over there? How far? It's about an 11.5 hour drive. Yeah. So it's comparable.

Would you do it? Would you come shop up? Would I drive you from Albuquerque? No, no, I'm there. I'm saying, would you get in your car and drive to me to do an unknown task in the production office

just to help me out? Like, am I trying to get somewhere in my life or is it's just like a friend thing? Well, I'm just trying to test the limits of our Tom and Gregness. I feel like this is a whole new area for us to really,

nailed down. I'd do it for you. That's so nice. Yeah, I would do it for you. Even if it was some real Watergate level shit. Yeah, would you, if I was like, if I had called you at like 3 a.m. from Vegas and I was like, I need some help.

I'm on Do Not Disturb, bro. The only things I wait for at that hour are the... See, Tom, Greg. The only things I accept at that hour cries from my children or push alerts from Twitter, letting me know about Justin Timberlake's World Cup fan. And with that, we end another episode of the watch.

If we were a little bit drowsy, it's just because it's 106 degrees in this studio right now. Shout to Zach back. We will be back on Monday to talk sharp objects and glow. Everybody have a nice weekend. Go France. Great job Croatia, but let's go, France. Today's episode of The Watch was brought to you by Gillette whenever I shave. I shave with Gillette.

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Subscribe today. Today's episode of The Watch was brought to you by HBO's Sharp Objects from the author of Gone Girl, the producer of Get Out, and the director of Big Little Lies comes the HBO limited series Sharp Objects. Amy Adams stars as Camille, a reporter who returns to her hometown to investigate the murders of two young girls. The Grizzly case soon brings Camille's own scars to the surface. Hailed as a top-of-the-line detective story by variety. Watch new episodes of Sharp Objects Sundays at 9 p.m. And catch up now on HBO Now.