The Watch - ‘Task’ Episode 4 With Mark Ruffalo, Tom Pelphrey, Brad Ingelsby, and Salli Richardson-Whitfield! Plus, ‘One Battle After Another’ Is Timely and Timeless.

Episode Date: September 29, 2025

Chris and Andy talk about seeing Paul Thomas Anderson’s ‘One Battle After Another’ and the surprisingly prophetic nature of its story (3:25). Then, they break down the fourth episode of ‘Task��� (17:39), before they’re joined by stars Mark Ruffalo and Tom Pelphrey, creator Brad Ingelsby, and director Salli Richardson-Whitfield for a live event at Vidiots to discuss how they went about portraying Philly culture, the inevitable collision of Robbie's and Tom’s story lines, creating the visual palette for the show, and much more (45:25). Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel here for full episodes of ‘The Watch’ and so much more! Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Guests: Mark Ruffalo, Tom Pelphrey, Brad Ingelsby, and Salli Richardson-Whitfield Producers: Kaya McMullen and Kai Grady Video Producer: Jon Jones Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hello, and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at the ringer.com. And joining me in the studio, don't mind me, dark hearts. Just putting a little Linda Thompson on here at the bar. It's 80 Greenwald! Did you take that as proof that you would do well at Lefties,

that they were playing, you know, shoot out the lights or whatever? Well, I do think that we have a situation on task, which we're going to be talking about today on the watch, where the musical supervision is perhaps outpacing the taste of the characters. But we will get to that. We're going to get to a lot of things about task. Andy, last night, you and I had the pleasure of hosting a panel talk at Vidyates, featuring Mark Ruffalo, Tom Pelfrey, Brad Inglesby, and last night's episode's director, Sally Richardson, Whitfield. And we're going to play that in the second half of this episode.

So you have some task talk coming from the people who made it. And then we're also just going to break down the episode a little bit here. And if there's any headlines you want to talk about, You know, Apple withholding the servant. Whatever hot button issues you want to address. Is it the servant or the savant? Oh, it's the savant. They have another show called The Servant.

They've got many shows. They also have two other Jessica Chastain shows, like, in the hopper. Do they really? Oh, they've been greenlit. There's like an Art World one. Oh. She stays working for them. So she's like, I didn't, we weren't aligned on this one, but.

How are you late night rock and roll Sunday night for us? Listen, it was great. We had a really good time. Kaya, the whole team, they showed up. They showed out. Yeah. Someone said from HBO was like, you guys have a great team. And I said, Chris has a great team. I'm just part of that team. You're part of my team. I'm the long snapper. You know, you elevated me for game day. That was really fun. Everybody kind of schlepped out to my neighborhood. Yeah. It was, I would say, just a little extra color for everyone's going to get to listen to it. I thought we had a good talk with those guys. It was really, really nice to spend time with a creative team who's so clear. enjoyed their working experience. Yeah.

You can fake that stuff, and you certainly often do fake it, you know, in promotional tours, but behind the scenes and then definitely when we were doing the talk, like, these guys really respected the hell out of each other in a way that was really, I don't know, it was kind of contagious. I saw, also contagious Tom Pelford.

So him being on the other end of the rogue chairs. He was saying, he was respectful. He was giving us elbow bumps. Yeah, he was, but he also, loves Jose Canseco, you know, so he was just doing Bash Brothers with us. That's right. I saw him and Ruffalo had a very charming moment where they were talking about their shared love

for Jeff Buckley. Were they? Yeah, because the Buckley documentary is coming out or he's out, and Ruffalo had just seen it, and they were like, oh, I love that album. Do you think that's a spoiler for episode five of Task where like the rest of J&W trash haulers show up at the quarry and they break out

a little like... Last goodbye. Like a little blue, so-nose Bluetooth thing, and just crank Buckley? Yes. Classic Monco. Oh, God. We can just get right into this episode of Task if you want to. Well, how do you want to do it?

Because we also both went to the movies. We also saw one battle after another, which we should probably talk about. So do we want to do a little task talk, battle talk back to task, or should we just... Let's do battle now. I just want to hear about your experience. You went and saw it, so like we are lucky enough in Los Angeles to have this incredible collection of movie theaters, especially large format movie theaters. So I got to see it at IMAX and CityWalk.

last week and then talked extensively about it on the big picture. You're also going on the big picture, so perhaps we'll share some thoughts there. Though I have no idea what I could be going on to get pranked. Like I don't actually know why I'm going on. They don't do that there. They keep it real tight. I'm surprised you haven't received a full rundown from Sean. I have received nothing. Only Jack was like, you still want to do this? And maybe he was like, this feels a little unlike. Can I give you a tip when you walk in there? Please. Don't tease Sean about the Mets. Listen. Have you? No. No, you do that. You always text me and you're like, should I text Bill and be like, ha ha, the Celtics? First of all, that was unnecessary.

He just aired me out. He does the same to us. It's not just he does the same to us. I've received two texts from Bill Simmons in the last six months. Both of them have been on group chains where he's like, look at your stupid team. And then there's like nine dudes whose phone numbers you don't have saved. And it's like, Andy, eat shit. Yeah.

So that's cool. Second, there was no point. during the last few weeks of the Mets, truly epic, $300 million collapse, that I actually texted him or any of the other Mets fans in my life. Yeah. That's too dark. I know. I know.

I went up to Jack yesterday, Jack Sanders, who produces the big picture and is also a big Mets fan, and I offered my condolences. How was it received? I thought level-headedly. I will not be bringing it up with Sean. Did you bring up that Trey Turner won the batting crown with a 304 batting average? This is a way. It's a real deadball era shit.

What happened to the game I love? It's so nuts. We used to hit singles in this country. We used to hit. Yeah. So no, I'm not prepared for that. But you were talking about formats. And I was very excited to see one battle after another in the format in which it was filmed.

Something that I learned about six weeks ago called Vista Vision. And I got to see it at the Vista Theater, which I also did not know as one of the four theaters in America showing the movie in this format. So I had a great experience. we'll talk about the movie. Maybe this will come up on Big Pick, but that's the church of cinema, and we're just sort of partying outside here so I could talk about it. The level of seriousness with which some people do approach the format stuff is beyond me. When we were entering, there was a huge line because the Vista is not assigned seats, so it's enthusiastic, people ready to support movies. But there was someone in front at the front of the line handing out little

stamp cards for one format after another. And I was like, sir, you grow, mostly overestimate my ability, A, to see movies, and B, my, how liquid I am. Yeah. That's crazy. I did see the movie. And also probably your passion for formats. I think that's exactly right. Right. The other thing that I learned.

The world's most foremost, Christopher Nolan on the backseat of a plane watcher. Whatever. You know, I want the movies to meet me where I am. And that's 30,000 feet over the mid-Atlantic. I also learned, and again, maybe you knew this, that VistaVision is, in fact, not a large vista, that it is a more compact ratio. Yes. So when you're in the last row,

because you only showed up an hour before the movie, maybe you have a different experience with it. I mean, I think that that actually is sort of contributing to, like this interesting stratification that I feel like is happening around certain releases, which is, I look, I'm a fucking movie nerd, and I love going to movie theaters here in Los Angeles and seeing things in unique ways. but, you know, I do want as many people

to feel like they are getting the movie that Paul Thomas Anderson made as possible. I think that one thing that you see is this like booming cinephile culture that obviously is thriving on letterbox and is like really, really inspiring in some ways. But it's not even a concern troll. I just want like, I want people in Marlton, New Jersey

to also go see this movie. and even if it's just at your AMC, like on a normal projecting. You're still seen it in the movie theater. I completely agree with that. Don't, let's not overcomplicate this. Sure. But it was really exciting,

and it was very exciting to see it in a full theater. You went into it similarly to the way I did, which was with the weight of expectations, where it's just, you know, these are pretty uniformly, not just good reviews, like once in a career reviews for even PTA movies.

do you feel like that affected the way you watched it? Possibly. Possibly. Because I think what that, when you just get the ambient, and I just, like, I loved it. I can't wait to, and I genuinely format agnostic, I need to see it again. But I do think that that elevating ambient elevation that this is somehow like not just a PTA movie,

that this is a generational masterpiece, it's impossible for that not to seep in. And so then when, the movie does the things that I think I will grow to love even more in the second and third viewing, which is the super PTA's kind of digressions or tone shifts, I was almost taken aback by them, as opposed to going along the journey with them. Because there are moments, especially early in the movie, where it's so, actually throughout the movie, I'll just say it.

Like one of the most electric aspects of seeing this movie is the vibe you only get when an artist is both truth-telling and telepathic. that he has been working on some sort of spiritual adaptation of the Pynchon novel Vineland for over a decade, I think on the Big Pick, I think he said 20 years he's been sort of kicking it around. He filmed this year and a half ago more. He did not know what it would feel like

to be in America in 2025, but he absorbed it or precog. What's the Minority Report thing? Yeah. To feel art that is absolutely in sync with the moment in which it is released is such a rare thing. And it is, it was exhilarating. And at times, like, almost oppressive in its immediacy. And I, and I, and I love that. And I think that that also might be why there were certain moments when, again, he does his very PTA things, which is

why I love him in the first place, where it becomes, it steps backward almost into silliness, or repeats certain beats, or lingers a little bit too long, or is dismissive of something that another filmmaker would turned into an entire meal, like the shootout at the, at like the gas station near the end, that I found myself like almost yearning to grab the wheel, and that's not something you do in a PTA movie. So the fact that there's so much left on the bone for me to, like, get to, once I've gotten those first viewing jitters out, makes me really, really excited, but also makes me feel almost like talking about it as an incomplete, like my reaction.

Yeah, I don't want to get into spoiler territory because obviously, like, I, hope that a lot more people see the movie and we just like don't need to go through beat by beat. I, to your point about it being timely, I also thought it was timeless. You know, I was spending some time driving this weekend and I was trying to sort of like map out the timeline of the movie because there's a time jump in it and, you know, some of it takes place 15 years prior to like the main action of the film, I think. But I was also like, so that would make that this year, that year. and then this goes up to like our current moment. And I was just like, why am I trying to... Solve it?

Yeah, why am I doing like the Wayland-Utani chronology for a BTA movie that is largely a work of adaptation and imagination? But I just... I feel like you're really grateful about it, man. Like, I can't wait. And it's also kind of seeped into my consciousness in a way that really... You only get like once or twice a year where, like, I've listened to the Johnny Greenwood score

a bunch of times, listen to playlists, people have made of the soundtrack. Johnny blacked out on the score. Yeah, yeah. And I started like, even like listening to music like the music that's in it. You know, I want to dive into Vineland again, which I read, but I think read too young, maybe.

My copy of Vineland spent a lot of quality time with me in London in the first part of the year. Two pages in? Yeah, but it sat in the window. I think it had a nice view, you know, the neighborhood. You know, it's funny, I was, I've been reading mostly novels this year. And you and I both have been on this Oliver Harris kick, who's a British spy novelist that we've really into. So because I was reading these spy novels, I decided to read a book called The Ghost, which is a biography of James Angleton, who is a very famous, infamous U.S. spy.

And it's, he's the one who basically ran an endless mole hunt. Yes. He was the most paranoid man in the history of intelligence. Yeah, is honestly, like, the character in the bureau who... J.J.J.A. J.J.A. is named after. It's really funny to go to nonfiction after reading almost exclusively fiction and just how matter of fact dudes will just be like, and he was a fascist.

I'm like, all right. If you say so. But that's actually a really interesting way to consider one battle after another also, which is... And I wonder if people, like, casual. who are seeing it, if casuals are seeing it, if it does get what I think everyone in the industry

outside of the industry is hoping. It's funny to note, just as a side note, that, like, it used to be that, like, on opening weekends, rival studios would be, like, on deep background to Paul Derriga, Derogabadian or whatever, and being like, that's a shit opening. Like, this movie's doomed.

And now everyone in town is like, give it time. It's got legs. We need this to succeed. Although we have seen over the course of the summer with sinners and weapons that there's, you know, Usually you get a Marvel movie and then it's like 63% drop off the next weekend now that the geeks have seen it. And this is like, I think people are hoping that word of mouth spreads.

So judging by me and my colleagues of the vista, the geeks have also seen this early. But anyway, I was just going to say that this movie is fiction in a very, very intentional way. Like the names are very pinch-esque, you know, the ones that he made up and the extravagances of it and the imagination of. it and it's fiction in a way that I find incredibly engaging and thrilling and exciting, but isn't really the way a lot of mainstream art is intended or crafted or received these days, right? There's a lot of, there's a lot of like, well, it wouldn't really happen that way, or like, let's solve for this, right? Yeah. And I think that this movie is so aggressively fiction in a wonderful way that some people might not be used to that. I think that's good for

the world to have something like that out in it. And just a couple other bullet points. Where would you rank this Leo performance in your personal pantheon? I don't need to, I'm not going to hold you to it. I'm just putting you on the spot here. I was talking to my daughters about this on the way. They were asking me what I thought about the movie.

Your daughter's big shutter island heads. My daughters are like, these posters for them are like, I'm trying to think of an example of like, like Dorian Gray shit. Like they're so horrified that Leo is a 50 year old man because they've seen Titanic. Uh-huh.

And some of Romeo and Julia. that like this is an abomination to them. And I was like, get ready. Get ready for the rest of your lives, girls. But they were, and they were, of course, they were like, well, Titanic is his best performance. And I was like, let me show you the Kualood scene from Wolf of Wall Street. Yeah, I think for me probably sentimentally and personally,

Departed is my favorite Leo performance. Wolf once upon a time in Hollywood. Yeah. Body of Lies. I thought you were going to say the beach. I think... Not body of lights.

The post... I don't know what the first movie that kind of introduced this kind of like broadly goofy Leo into the world is, whether it's like, whether it was... I mean, he's not goofy.

Maybe? He's not goofy in Django, but he is arch. That's actually, that's top three for me. His performance in Wolf, his performance in Hollywood, but especially this one,

like this is top three for me already. I think it's a, astounding performance. I think it is so, so, so funny. I'm obsessed with the fact and this is also something that I think would be rewarded in rewatches that the hero of the movie,

the nominal hero of the movie, Bob, does nothing, succeeds at nothing, accomplishes nothing, except he's a hashtag good dad. Yeah. I've seen people say that. I push back on that a little bit.

You think he's a problematic parent? No, I think he, accomplished, I mean, like, I think he does a lot. But I just mean in terms of his role in the French 75, his role in society during the 16 years, even when he is chased out. He's a passenger, yeah. He's a passenger on everyone else.

And I kind of, I found that to be very, it felt like a very personal movie in that way to PTA, and I found that really fascinating. And, you know, I think you saw this coming for me because you saw the movie before I did, but the end wrecked me. Like, the end is, and we won't spoil it, but the last two lines of dialogue,

like Adam bombed my heart, and I'm not recovered from it. Like, that's the new one to have a catch dad as far as I'm concerned. And as a hashtag girl dad, there's no going back for me from this movie. And the fact that it, the fact that a movie like this contains that much note-perfect sentiment

and also Saturday Night Live legend Jim Downey of Jeff Epstein with the island, I would have heard saying, Coining the phrase, semen demon. Yes. There's something for everyone in this film. Being a girl dad is a great segue to this episode of Task. Should we take it?

Well done. All right. So episode four, All Roads, this one's written by Brad Ingalls, being directed by Sally Richardson Woodfield. It is, we can go two directions with this conversation. We'll get to both of them. But do you want to talk about the human drama moments, or do you want to talk about the crime thriller moments?

because I have stuff for both. I think we should probably start with the crime thriller stuff because that is the noisiest part and in some ways the most confusing part. And we should say again, our talk now is going to be followed by the talk we had with the creators and actors last night. We didn't get in the weeds with it so much.

Yeah, it's somewhat artificially capped because you've got the person who wrote the series and someone who directed almost half of it and you've obviously got the performer. So the conversation taking place basically at the midway point, in the season, caps what they can say about what the piece itself meant to them or whatever. And also the nature of the event last night kept us from saying, no, but really, Brad, how did he get the phone?

Well, let's talk about how did he get the phone? Because we love the show and we have faith in his vision as a creator. And I also am fairly confident having not watched ahead that the next episode will make some of those beats clearer. But it is worth noting that in the sense of like the masterful, you know, the masterful, navigation thus far through this thicket of characters and themes and betrayals has been really, really clear. And this was the first time when I had to like rewind a couple of times and still feel not entirely. I understand the, I think I understand what's essential to understand.

Yes. About, you know, a mole, perhaps moles have diverted the phone, put that phone in the hands of the dark hearts and thus exit cliff. Let's break it down. In the beginning of the episode, when the task force is having a larger meeting with some other law enforcement who are going to be assisting them with this bust at the park or this prospective bust at the park.

Aaliyah is holding up Ray's phone in an evidence bag. And she's like, we have been communicating with Cliff as a prospective drug buyer. So he thinks he's meeting us tonight. We're all going to be there three hours early. We're going to be in place.

There's a possibility that the kid, Sam, is going to be in the car. So it's a live wire situation. We have to also approach this as if it's also a rescue as well as a bus. Right. Okay. Throughout the episode, but especially in subsequent scenes, like really early on in it after that briefing, we are getting hints and lingering shots. And we have sort of broken, there's a very thin wall that crime shows have where

It's like, and we've talked about this a lot, whether or not the characters on the show are at the exact same place as the audience or whether the audience is outpacing the characters. And this is one of the hardest things there is to balance as a writer, I'm sure, as a novelist, you know, as a filmmaker, whatever it is. Not a non-fiction writer. They know more. Yes. And they're fascists. Very declarative. So early on, we get a, I would say a couple of, oh, that's why they cast Martha Plimpton shots.

because she is obviously an incredibly accomplished actress and a well-known person. So casting her as Kathleen McGinty to just be like, I'm too old for this shit three times seems like a waste. So it's not a huge shock that at least we are being tipped towards the idea that McGinty is in some part the leak on the law enforcement side leaking information of the dark cards. And that is, the thumb is on the scale for that as well

because in the van outside at the park, like in Tom's little control center, where she is as well, there's a line of dialogue, and I'm sure I noted it down, but I didn't highlight it in my notes, where there's some comment about there being a mole or there being some mistrust,

and then... She dismisses it. Not just that, the edit cuts to her. Like, this is, Sally and Brad talked a lot about their collaboration. It's essentially the crime thriller version of Jim Halpert face. You know, it's like, instead of selling the joke, you're selling, it could be her. Now, and Sally and Brad did talk about the work they did, extensive work they did in the edit on this episode to help shape it and help guide the audience where they wanted the audience to be.

This is a delicate day. So it could be a misdirect. Everybody wants it to be a shock, but they also want the shock to make sense. To feel earned, yeah. And there's one way of doing that, which is, forgive me for spoiling usual suspects, but it's the Kaiser Soze reveal. I don't get the reference. Where it all happens at the end, right? You're watching it the first time through and you're just like, oh my God, he's Kaiser Sose.

who's Kaiser Sozei, is it another person that we haven't seen? And it turns out it's not. And that all of that is sort of re-contextualized. Do you want you to spoil it? No. No, let's let people enjoy Kevin Spacey and Brian Singer's work. Just, you know, wow. The best possible way to spoil it by celebrating two of our great icons of cinema.

Or you can be the camera lingers. And this is an interesting choice that they made where, Ruffalo's character, Tom, leaves the room and we stay with Kathleen McGinty and get her calling saying, hey, we got a problem now. She could be calling her contractor. I don't know.

We know. The question is how many people are. Yes, because I have a hard time believing that the person who is largely seems to be in charge of Philadelphia law enforcement is going to also be rooting around in evidence lockers right at this crucial moment. Yes. So thus the cloud of suspicion has not lifted off of the other members of the task force,

particularly Alia, who is the last one we see with the phone. She's the last one we see with the phone and we have spent the least amount of time with her personally. And Grasso remains a suspect for a number of reasons, one of which being he tells Tom that he was interviewed by some lady, which connects them. But also pretends like he can't remember her name, which seems unlikely. Seems unlikely. And then two, his sudden credit. of faith. He is the reverse seaman demon. He is. Actually, I think the reverse seaman demon would be something else.

That's right. And we probably shouldn't cover that on this podcast. However, I might bring it over to our friends of the big pick. It's a much safer place to discuss. If somebody skipped the one battle part and just jump to that, that would be confusing. What I mean is he suddenly has this, I guess you could say kind of sweet and consistent with his character, crisis of conscience, where he's like, but kind of old-fashioned and a bit odd where he's like, I don't want to

have our first time, meaning his and Lizzie's first time having sex, in your marriage bed. Yes. Which is fine, but odd. And I read that personally as this guy knows that he is engaged in betrayal and doesn't want to further complicate things.

I felt that as well. But I also credit the show for doing the legwork to make that kind of crisis of faith of confidence plausible within the bounds of Grasso who's casting around about faith keeps asking Tom questions about being a priest or not being a priest or how he felt about it how he feels so you know he he he is he is he is he is in the midst of his journey too yes not to step on it but brad gives a very i thought very insightful and interesting answer in our conversation that you guys will hear later about where he likes to engage with characters

on their own internal arcs and journeys and that tracks. So it's the best scenario. It's good on both sides. Is there any part of you that... See, this is honestly not the most interesting part of the show to me is like, who's the mole? Totally. I remember having this conversation,

maybe I actually wrote about it when the night of came out. And the first couple of episodes of the night of, you're just like, I cannot believe the world of New York that this show is better. and how amazing, you know, the depth of feeling and the depth of, like, perception that this show has. And then it becomes, like, who done it? Who really did it then?

And that's fine. All shows need to arrive. They're all crime shows eventually need to solve, solve their crime in question. I honestly, you can make a case for any one of these people. Like, Grasso, I can understand. Lizzie, it would be strange at this point, but also like she is kind of like at once very gifted

but also vulnerable because clearly her life is sort of spitting out of control on the outside. Aaliyah we just don't know a ton about other than her monologue last week that even I think we broached the idea that that could have been performance in some way. In any case that's happening and on the flip side of it, you know, the dark hearts are slowly making their way. Not so slowly. This whole show has happened in four days. I was just going to say slowly making their way through the huge amount of volumes of photo books that motorcycle gangs keep.

They're very nostalgic people. That's incredible. It's true. This is like Stringer Bell, like are you taking notes on a criminal conspiracy? It's like, hey, we're having a gang meeting. Are you taking lots of group photos? Get together. Get together.

Should we take our guns off? No, no, no, no, no. I want to see him in all the pictures. If they got RICO charges, it would just be like in evidence. the collected photographic album. And they're all in like the folders

that they used to give you at the drugstore that says like coat of color on the front. Reading Rally. The site of a shooting that we participated in.

It's just a bunch of guys being like, oh over a dead body. In any case, Perry is searching for his own, his own mole. And he seems to have at least started to arrive at it

by finding a picture at the very end of Mave with Billy and Billy holding his holster in the gun that was used And I don't think it's belaboring the point

to just say again that all serialized dramas are to an extent puzzle boxes with something to be solved. The best of them, and I would, through four episodes, put task in that category, hide that.

They build on, if the puzzle box part is the skeleton, the muscle, blood, sinew, all that other stuff is literally, in my tortured metaphor, the meat of the show. And so to your point,

like, I don't really care who the mole is. I don't have odds on Fandul about it. I'm really excited to see where the story takes us and what we gain from it. I also like whether it's intentional or not what it says about how hard it is to just do one thing. One task, if you will.

Yeah, because think about a conventional show or another version of this show would be Robbie and Tom, this kind of like, we are just going to collide at some point. This is heat, you know, we're the best at what we do. Robbie's not the best at what he does. He just fucked up basically the biggest deal of his life. You know, by trusting Cliff and Cliff's contact,

but also just in general, like, I think he's got pie in the sky ideas and almost childlike ideas about going to Canada and living on an island and having Swiss family Robinson up there. And Tom is like kind of barely holding it together. his home life is coming apart, and now he's got to worry more about who from his side is leaking information

than just finding this kid, which is supposed to be his job. Well, take it a step further. He's so far from the best of what he does that in the world in which McGinty is a mole or has, you know, a second allegiance, she put him in this job...

On purpose. On purpose. Yeah. Because he isn't... This guy's handing out pamphlets at it, like trade fairs. Yes. So if you extrapolate it further,

there's the possibility that this task force was put together to serve the Darkheart's interest to find out with the full engine of the state behind it, who's robbing them? And then to make everything go away.

Well, that was actually, that's a very good point because you would say she sure put the, she identifies its dark arts for him. Yeah. You know,

and then Grasso gives him a certain amount of information and we have a couple of outside law enforcement people who say very important things like don't trust anyone. But I don't know how on the ball Tom is with this stuff because he's obviously got a lot going on. It also ties into, I think, one of Brad Inglesby's main themes in this work, if not all of his work,

is that all society is a collection of systems and that kind of work in concert with each other, good and bad, cop and criminal. Robbie as a sort of noble loser failure is a wild card he's the radical in this and both sides need that stamped out

unfortunately particularly unfortunately because it's like you know man he just and I brought this up again with him in the thing we did last night so I'll let him speak to it when I say him I mean Brad

but like he does not let up in his story telling, like a more enjoyable, not enjoyable, but like a more, a lighter entertainment version of heat, which would get a, you know, a 10-star rating, five-star rating for you on the letterbox. Yeah. Would be all about the action, comma, the juice of the pursuit. There wouldn't be time, because I think everyone watching the show is like, I don't think this is going to work out awesome for Robbie.

we don't actually know what's going to happen, but it doesn't seem great. We wouldn't have spent this much time on the father-daughter dance practice. You know, like, they just wouldn't have done it. That was like the lot. I mean, like, we're starting to get into the tragedy aspect. We've lost Cliff in a brutal, brutal way. Can I talk about that for a second? Okay.

Finish your thought. I just think that like everything now is starting to point in the wrong direction for people, you know. Yeah, that scene was devastating. It was beautifully shot by Sally. it was Tom Pelfrey saddestyed in the biz. Yeah. Really like an incredible

that must have been an awesome, awesome episode as an actor because you get to have a prolog moment still sad because his wife is sort of drifting away from him.

We don't really get it. But he gets to play the other version of himself. Yeah, he gets to play the younger version of himself. We get to see him with his brother. We get to see him in happier times, more or less.

And then we get this moment where he both where he thinks, you know, everything is going to be okay because, you know, we've decided we're going to go to Canada. Then I got shot down by Mave with some like really basic follow-up questions. And he gets this grace moment with his daughter, but feels very, it's starting to feel a little McBainey, you know? Unfortunately so.

Speaking of McBainey, Cliff, I think, I don't think anybody had odds that Cliff was coming out of this episode. Yes. On two feet. And it's a little confusing because, like, Obviously, there's this car stealing situation and Cliff steals a car that looks a lot like the car that eventually gets rushed. They're both white sedans, I think. Oh, you mean the car that people are looking for their dog?

Yeah. And so there's a lot of misdirection. And I don't know how much of it is conscious among the criminals versus what the show did to just sort of throw us off. And then on top of that, when did the buy get changed from the point? park to wherever they're meeting somewhere. Right. And that's like off the Wissahickens somewhere, you know? And the inferences that it changed when someone else was pretending to be Ray.

Yes, that they were like, actually meet me over here. Meet me here. Okay, I have to talk about Cliff. Great actor, great performance. Raoul Castillo. I'm in a zag. Hmm. Kind of got off easier than I thought, to be honest with you.

his head was his brains were like coming out of his head yeah but he was alive uh-huh you know we've seen he could just gone into the blue tent for a little bit i gotta say getting saran wrapped is like one of my top top ways i don't want to go out here listen i don't want to tell it's like shark go for it i think i think like any kind of skydiving accident where i'm like this is i have like time to think about what's going to happen oh you mean every time i'm on her near airplane. Don't say that. That's just what I think about.

I'm not saying it's going to happen. That I don't mind. I know. You ride the waves up there. You're like, you're like Garrett on a hundred foot wave up in the sky. Chasing the big ones. It's beautiful for you.

Maybe I should be more like CJ next time I get on a national flight. This is where nature's taking me. No, I'm not saying that he had a pleasant exit from Earth. Just watching tenet on a three-in-screen. We got it. It's more that far be it for me to tell Jason how to do his job. I have never been in management, let alone, you know, the very stressful position.

I think he's a move fast and break things kind of guy. It's just that I feel like Cliff had more to tell him. You know what I mean? Yeah, you know what? With advanced interrogation, I don't know where we're at. It's very, it's like, I don't know what, what, do you guys have like, if I put this guy through this much pain, I get this much information? No, I'm going to go Galaxy Brain on you here and say, I don't think it's about doing Sicario to people or doing the Zero Dark 30.

Yeah. One thing that I learned, and I think is true I didn't learn, but one thing that was illustrated by one battle after another, and this is, I don't think it's a spoiler. If it is, hit 10 seconds. People seem resigned to their own fates at different times when being confronted with, you know, the opposing forces are being interrogated. But as soon as the interrogator is just like, how's your sister doing? then they spill, right? As soon as it becomes you're responsible

for other people who didn't choose this life. So I'm just saying, just making a note. Look, broadly speaking, dark hearts, there's a more relatable workplace comedy there, I think,

that I don't believe we're going to get into. Dark hearts can't be broken. But like we learned in this episode that Perry, you know, has the autonomy to go around, interrupt people's dinner,

wrap chains around his hands and punch his direct reports in the mouth. But even he's got a boss. I love that. I love that little moment. I also love that guy being like, my thing about this motorcycle club is I drive a car.

That's how fucking bad I am. He probably doesn't even take photos. I've gone all the way back around to having a cutlass. Because it's like two motorcycles with a nice chair. It's like when you put two single beds together. It's better. Yeah. That guy really cracked the code.

European hotels right there. Why do they still do that? I don't know. Do you remember when last year we went to Norway for the media festival, we had a very nice time, but one of the most confounding things about the hotel in Bergen was that it was, like, many European hotels, like two twin beds that you could join if you wanted company. But there were... If you wanted it.

Oh, no, it wasn't. It was one queen-sized bed, but two individual blankets, two individual quilts. That's just how Scandies do it, though. So... Why would you share a blanket? Because it's like inefficient. they think? I think it's just like

it's inhumane that people have different body temperatures. Yeah, but you can flip off part of it. Like I feel like the whole point of like sharing a bed with someone

is like you share the whole experience. You can't like half ass it. Share the whole experience. I think that ultimately like I like the way they do things over there. Well, some things seem to have worked out.

Like absolutely you got me on the social contract. There's nothing like a ton of dried fish for breakfast. Kyah, do you want to weigh in on this? Like do you feel, you've traveled in Europe recently? Do you have a preference?

The double duvets is not just a Scandy thing. That was very... European? Yeah, I think it's just a European thing. I personally love a double duvet. I think America should adopt that. Wow. Yeah, just like you can have your blanket.

You want to strip it off and throw it over there. Just a couple of nimbies standing in the way of my abundance agenda. I don't really think it's the overproduction of duvets that's going to put this planet in the dumpster. The way tariffs are going on duvets from Europe, we'll never be able to have this conversation. in good faith. But second, I'm just saying, like, I believe in more of a communitarian existence. What if we, for America, we should just make one big blanket that we all sleep under

in this country. Honestly, we should make one big saran wrap and just all go out like cliff together because that sort of feels like every day. You've heard that's how we treat COVID now. Well, look where we've ended up. Just another week of podcasting in the books. Oh, it's Monday. Can I also make a point?

Well, you know what, no, I'll save it because this came up in our conversation with the gang. Okay. Do you have any thoughts about, without saying it's whether it's like an admission of guilt or anything, but that Grasso and what's her name's Lizzie's date is happening after the botched? I just note with interest that if that meeting was supposed to happen at 11 p.m., it looks like it was cold and wet outside. was he's got that hood up. Yep. Then cut to they are at a bar

and she's showered. She's got, like her hair has been straight and she's done her hair. So that would mean, and Bagrossa was referring to, man, that really fucked that up. I assume that's the same night. So that would mean like they have

gotten home, showered, then met back up again and stayed out for several beers. That's pushing Philly. Philly's like a 1.30 a.m. last call, right? Yeah, but you know what? I'm just going to let them have a pass on this because they're young people and they're able to have a different work-life balance than I am. Like, when you said, went home and went out again, my eyes glazed over. Like, that is psychopath behavior.

Why would anyone ever do that? I'd love to be in a world where I did that. We used to do that. Look at us now. Can't remember a thing. I was, you remember when we used to start going out at 10 p.m. New York City? What would we do until then? Not eat dinner. I'll tell you that much. Yeah. I mean, play PlayStation? Yeah. Read Vineland? God, that's so sick. Wait, now you're making me yearn for it.

Why did I pronounce Vineland like Grantland? Vinland? Yeah. Yeah, I noted that. I know that with interest. Just the other thing, before we get into the conversation, the show, I don't know if everyone's having the same reaction to the show as this specifically. But like, we talked last week about how the longer running.

times, just for me anyway, hit different. Like, I just enjoy, I'm enjoying the pace of the show. And one of the reasons why I enjoy the pace of the show is that this episode, for example, is shaped a certain way. You're expecting fireworks at the end, which don't actually come in the way you predict that they're going to come. But even so, Brad is so talented at, I think, feeding people either what they want or what they don't even realize they need tonally, so that we're building up all this anticipation for the park stakeout. And then not only do we get the misdirect with the couple and the dog, we get Lizzie saying, you know, how do I get cool patches?

And I'm going to call you bullseye. Yeah. Which is just such a nice, like, mood lightener in that moment. It's just being conducted very well. And I think that kind of execution comes from, not to be infer too much from, like, one evening with these people, but I think that you can draw a straight line from the balance and the rhythm, of the show to the way these people clearly collaborated.

I think also like even the moments where you could say it seems like Robbie could have called Bartos the truck driver. That seems like a text message. Like cool, can you meet me?

I'll Venmo you, whatever. But it sets up, first of all, Robbie, I think they don't know who to trust. Yeah. They're trying to do this as much in person as possible. And B, he's not thought this through. Like, he's got this kid with him.

And he doesn't really seem to know exactly what to do as this kid's caretaker. This kid is now becoming wise to the fact that there is something very strange going on. He saw some stuff. And on top of that, I thought that whole situation where he disappears and then this guy sees like a kid in the creek and is like, you know, what the hell is going on, brought out a different side of Robbie than the one we've seen. And obviously, this dude has like a rage streak. Do you think that Mave would have been more on board with the plan if Robbie had said,

this guy, Bartos, his truck driver, he's going to drive us to Canada. And then instead of pulling out a pamphlet, he pulled out a large leatherbound book of photos, of Bartos, Bartos's truck of like all the rest stops between there and Canada. And one of them labeled escape route in case of trouble. Right. Like, do you think that would have helped? I love that Maves is like, I don't want to do that. That sounds dumb.

I'm not, I didn't do anything that requires me to leave like this. Like if anything, I want to go to fucking Brooklyn. By the way, that is literally what my older daughter said to me last week when I suggested mini golf. Like this, leaving this house was not part of our negotiation. I refuse. Anything else on task this week? No. On Thursday, I think we'll do a little bit of a slow horses catch up.

Sure. We could do some lowdown. Anything else that you're enjoying watching? It's really about you. Well, we haven't really talked about it, but I think English teacher has been great so far this season. So far, they dumped the whole thing. I've only watched a couple.

And you sneaky guy, you jumped Platonic. That was the show that Kaya and I covered. I know. I couldn't handle being left out. And then you finished the season. I haven't even done that yet. My wife was just homesick one day and was just like running through all of Platonic.

It's a dream show for that. Pretty fun. Great show. All right. So let's get into our conversation that we had at Vidyats last night after screening of the fourth episode. You'll hear from Brad Inglesby,

the creator, writer of the show, Sally Richardson Whitfield, who directed three, four, and the upcoming sixth episode. And of course, Tom Pelfrey, who plays Robbie and Mark Ruffalo, who apparently was the Hulk. And I was surprised to see

a lot of people asking him to sign stuff. And I was like, are you guys of Zodiac fans? Like, what's going on? I was like, oh yeah, that dude is in eight of the biggest movies of all time. You didn't see the guy with the funco pop of Mark Ruffalo and you can count on me. I know. It's like young Mark Ruffalo on a park bench.

I'm my spotlight jacket. No, Mark Ruffalo, these guys were all great. I hope you enjoy it. I think you can also watch it, right? You can also watch it. The crew is awesome to come out and film and record all this. We will be back on Thursday running through some other shows that are on. And we'll talk to you soon.

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Learn more at Wells Fargo.com forward slash active cash terms apply. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty, limited time flavors. New Whole Foods, Market Peach, Apricot, Rose, Italian soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch, as is their trending mango, Yuzu chantilly cake. But if you're on the go, new 365 strawberry pretzels make a great sweet snack. That sounds delicious.

Get savings with yellow sale signs storewide. and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. I'm Chris Ryan. Oh, I'm Andy Greenwald. Thank you so much for coming out for this special screening of Task.

Without further, do let me bring everybody out here, first of all, the creator of Task, Brad Engelsby, the director of the episode you just watched, plus several others from the season, Sally Richardson-Woodfield. And, of course, the stars of this show, Mark Ruffalo and Tom Belfrey. Thank you.

Guys, thanks so much for doing this. Thanks for coming out. What an amazing show. Give yourselves a round of applause. Everybody for everybody involved with task. Thank you for having us, guys. It's really, I really appreciate. This is sort of unique.

We don't usually get to do like a mid-season screening, check-in with the cast. This is kind of awesome. It's usually for a first episode or a last episode. It makes asking questions a little bit difficult because we don't want you guys to feel like you're in spoiler territory. So I'll keep it broad with you, Brad, to start with.

It's such a balancing act, I would imagine, in assembling the show in terms of its structure. Because you've got a who-done-it. You've got two characters on a collision course, multiple mole hunts now. But you've also got all of these human character beats that I think is what is bonding people to the show in the first place. So can you talk to me a little bit about assembling something

that's got all these genre elements, but also this human drama? It's something that we struck. with sometimes in the edit really Chris is trying to keep a balance but it it really is always about the characters and I think whenever we're in the edit or even in the writing process where you feel like the plot is overwhelming the show in some way I always have to stop and check myself and say what is the show really about it's about these characters and it's about the emotional arcs of the characters and and never letting the plot have to take over that part of the show.

So, and yet we also have to move the plot along. There needs to be an engine. There needs to be a moment where the audience gets to the end of the episode and they want to keep going. And so I think it is a balancing act. And I think I have to put myself in the viewer's shoes in the edit in the writing process and say, you know, what is the right amount of emotion and plot?

And I have to ask myself, you know, am I able to care about these characters and are we servicing the plot? it's kind of a bit of trial and error really of just saying, are we on the right path and are we not losing sight of what the show is really about? That said, Brad, you may have tipped your hand a little bit in this episode, and I'm sure Eagle-Eyed, Philadelphia Eagle-Eid viewers would notice that over the course of this season, when things were going relatively decently for the characters,

they were drinking Yingling. This episode, they seemed to exclusively be drinking Rolling Rock. So I'm wondering what you were saying about the emotional narrative power of our favorite watery domestic loggers. I didn't even notice that, Andy. I can't take any credit for that one. I really can't. Mark noticed, I could tell.

For Tom and Mark, how crucial, I mean, this goes without saying, how crucial was filming in Delco, filming in the greater Philadelphia area, not only defining the literal accents and voices of the characters, but also for building out maybe backstories, biographies. I mean, did you find yourself, you know, immersing yourselves in Philadelphia high schools and like learning a little bit about local history.

How did that work? There will be a quiz after just to be quick. This is a quiz. You know, just there's just something you can never get by shooting in a place that isn't where you're actually located in a show. It's just everywhere you look, it's the light, it's the feeling, it's the feeling, it's the, the cars, it's the stores, it's the people. And it's always, I mean, if you let it, it will always be informing you. And it's the food.

I started with a fake belly. And that just kept getting bigger and bigger. As my real belly underneath it was getting bigger and bigger. And my wife came to visit me and she said to my family, well, your father's eating his way through Philly. So it's, yeah, that was my, I did a tour of the Philly food, and that was, that ended up being my character's biggest, anything particular you couldn't quit. What is it? A pork sandwich?

The pork sandwich is a rob. Yeah. That was great. That's the one I'm, oh, not in this episode, but in one episode, I'm just plowing a sandwich. And that was just, I just had no idea. camera was running during that. And Tom, you're not from Philly, you're from Jersey originally, which we'll forgive for the sake of this day.

Let's go. We all want to me. I love it. I love it. When you live far enough north in New Jersey, everybody treats you like you're another borough of New York. And then you live far enough south in New Jersey and they think it's just an extension of Philadelphia.

Like, we do have an actual state. We're all proud to live there. We're proud to be from there. So congratulations on Jackson Dart. But beyond that, one of the crazy things about the show is discovering how many of the members of the cast are not from America at all and are adopting this accent.

I was wondering if you felt, you know, like a regional ambassador in welcoming people and trying to show them the ropes. My entire task force was not American. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Yeah, I mean, it was. It was amazing.

To your question about filming in the area, it reminded me so much of where I grew up. You know, like, and like the vibe on set was great. Like, the crew is just constantly busting my chops. You know, like, that's what I'm used to being the way of showing affection and knowing that you're safe. It's like, if you can make fun of me, then we care about each other. Yeah.

You know, like, this is a safe space. And that's, like, such a particular East Coast thing. I remember taking that out west when I was younger and it didn't really go well. Yeah. Why is this guy such an asshole? Yeah, literally, literally like, wow, man. He's aggressive.

It's like, oh, I, okay. I love you. Yeah, yeah, I love you. But, you know. So, and then, yeah, the Brit, I mean, they really, they really caught it amazingly well, didn't they? My wife, who's watches intently, could not believe that the entire,

task team was either British or Irish or South African. Yeah. Sally, you arrived like literally into Brad's backyard to take on work on the show. I was wondering what the tone meetings were like between you. And was there a location that he took you to or a place that you visited that served as kind of a eureka moment for you to unlock your own understanding of the visual palette of the show? Well, I'd have to say that I've seen it.

every piece of woods. In all of Pennsylvania. Yes, all of Pennsylvania. That really was some of my episodes and later on really take place outside of the city and really had to explore my DP. Ellie is here for my episode. Ellie!

And I'm pretty sure that we've lost a year or two of our life from the amount of bug spray that we had counter and poison ivy that we walked through. It and ticks, Lyme disease, this one. But I think, you know, obviously, and oh, I'd love to say that every single home we went to was either a relative of Brad or a teacher who taught with them. And so I think a lot of those people really welcomed me into the community very much. And I really learned a lot about Philly from them and from obviously hanging around with Brad.

But you had like that amazing moment in three with Maeve baptizing or showing Sam how to swim. And that's such a gorgeous moment. And that's the thing about Philly that's weird is like you'll be city, city, blink your eyes and you were in the like the middle of the woods. Be searched and searched and searched for that particular spot. But turned out to be the perfect place.

That's one of my favorite moments of the series so far. To Mark and Tom, so far you have not crossed paths on the show. How siloed were you during production? Were you checking for each other's dailies? Were you trying to track the other performance to meet each other midway? You're in deep competition. What's he up to? What's he doing?

I would have played that differently. No way. He's amazing. We literally would be, I think we only saw each other in passing. We'd just be like, ugh. Mark said, Mark told me the other day we had to do press for something. Mark told me the other day that before we even met, he watched me leave my trailer to go to set,

and he could tell from about 100 yards away that I had ADHD. Yeah. his pat in the pockets oh fuck oh I have it on I said you could tell he goes oh buddy I love this guy

no we it was never on purpose we just kind of didn't see each other we were in two totally different shows I know, I know. What's crazy is we don't ever actually meet in the show. Spoiler. Oh, wait, without spoiling. Is Marvel watching?

But Brad, how much, again, no spoilers, obviously. But did you feel pressure in crafting these two characters cross-scene? Yeah, so I think the whole show is really structured as a collision course. And I think, you know, what we talked about was if that's the structure of the show and that's the engine of the show and the tension of the show and not just for these two guys in the show, I think it's for if we've done our job, it was always our hope that you care about everybody in the show. And so the tension is, oh, God, I know this is going to be a collision and I'm scared to see what's going to happen. And if that's the structure of the show and every week you're telling the audience they're getting a little closer, a little closer, you have to pay it off. And the audience. has to be satisfied with exactly what happens when the collision comes. So I felt immense pressure, and Sally and I spoke about this. I won't spoil anything, but this is something we always talked about, was if that's the structure of a show, we have to pay it off.

If we've been leading the audience along that these two are going to meet eventually, it had better be worth the wait. Do they meet in a diner at just the two of them? Well, that was one that, I think that was one location. We knew we had to avoid. Lanark Diner's right there. I have to admit. We shot in Lanark Diner.

The way that this was described to me however many years ago when this was first starting to come around and somebody was just like, it's heat in Philly, and I like had to check that there were not hidden cameras around to make sure I wasn't getting punked. I want to talk to you a little bit about some of the genre elements of the show

because this episode sort of concludes in this really tense 20-minute sequence that involves the park situation and then also the road. I can't wait to find out where you got shot the cliff stuff. But it's confusing. It's confusing for the characters. And I think it's confusing as a first pass as an audience member.

And you have trust in the show that it's going to resolve itself and everything. But like how do you guys, Sally and Brad, decide this is how much the audience knows. This is how much the characters know. And this is how much we have to keep held back until future episodes. I think that some of that came out in editing. And we really spent the time to grab extra looks from people, other people, you know, thinking so that we could maybe come back and tease you guys a little bit.

Is it her? Is it him? And I think that a lot of that isn't editing, don't you think? I mean, obviously you've set it up, but just figuring out how we're going to lay it out later and having different, at least that's my job. Give Brad lots of different choices so we can figure out how we really want to weave this together at the very end.

I think Sally is on to it, and she does such a wonderful job of giving us tons of pieces. It's true. She has amazing storyboards, and she's way ahead of us on set. But I think that's the idea, is to have more in the edit. And so when you get to a sequence like this one, you know, you play it a few ways, and then you put yourself in the seat of the viewer and go, is the viewer ahead of us? Are they behind us? Is the tension still there?

it's the order of revelation, when are things revealed. And that's something we did mayor a lot. And it's something we do in this show a lot. It's just when you reveal things as opposed to what you reveal. It's when you reveal them. I think that this is a good sequence that explains that or it's just like, you know, when do you reveal that Cliff isn't where he's supposed to be?

And I think that's just watching it in trial and error and see which version of the sequence is playing. We did a lot of versions of the sequence. We did a lot. And sometimes you just got to watch. it a few times and go, is this the best version of the sequence that's hitting the emotional beats and the surprises? Do you have any

extra footage of the couple who lost their dog? Do you ever consider? I don't want to tell you how to do your job, but if you ever consider just... I was very happy that people laughed in that because you never know. I can't remember. What do you think they talked about when they got home that night? It was just like, maybe dog ownership is not

worth it. They never found that dog. Yeah. Damn shame what they did to that dog. That's season two. Is you guys looking for the dog? Maybe season two, HBO. One of my favorite things about the show, and this is definitely a compliment to you, Brad,

is that the show always validates the internal struggle of these two characters. They have had really, really, really wildly hard things happen to them. But the show also doesn't shy away from the actual consequences of that internal struggle, that there's a responsibility for that behavior. And without getting too into the weeds of preparation or ADHD.

I wonder to both you guys, like Mark, as an actor, how do you bring Tom's home struggle, what's going on in his personal life, to work with him as he has to manage these kids in the workplace? Like, just as an actor, how do you carry that into those scenes? It's just like our lives. We're always carrying our home life everywhere we go. Tom's home life is just,

it's eminently part of his existence. And it's on the forefront for a long time until Sam is gone. Until we realize that Sam's been kidnapped. There's a lot of duplicating. You know, he's looking for this boy and his boy is gone. And he's, you know, trying to hold together this task force of misfits. And his family is this task force of misfits. I mean, Brad does this really beautifully.

and it's constantly informing things. But by the way, Sylvie Vicari, who plays my daughter, Emily, is here. That Sylvia, stand up. Where are you, Sylvia? Dab, Sylvia. Stand up, Sylvia. Yeah. Bravo.

Amazing. So, yeah, and then she comes to work with me when I do. It's beautiful. She's here. with me now. And to you, Tom, I was wondering, like, one of the incredibly compelling things about Robbie is that he does have this almost sweethearted belief

in the future that he deserves. And I wondered how much of that was tied to the fact that he's spent a decade or more hauling other people's garbage. And yet he still believes that he deserves something better than that. Just curious how you balance that. Like, the moment particularly we could talk in this episode that is so heartbreaking, the dance, you know, it is agonizing to watch,

but I wondered as you play it, do you have to play that he believes he's going to take her to the dance so that they will have other opportunities to dance in a trip to Canada? Well, there's two parts of that. One is, you know, this is how we all get out of bed in the morning, isn't it? We all hope that there's better days ahead. I mean, I hope we all do for all of us, for ourselves, for everybody else.

Like, I think that's the reason that Robbie's so relatable is because we all have that. You know, even sometimes you have a bad day or maybe a bad month. But like, it comes back around, you know, it's a, it always comes back around. And as far as that dance goes, yeah, I don't know. I'll say this about it. I got to become a father two and a half years ago. Yeah. It's the wildest, the greatest thing ever, ever, ever, by a million times. And being around those kids now getting to play, I've played characters before,

have kids, but like knowing what it means now, like the infinite depth of the meaning that you could only guess at before makes everything so rich. regardless of what's happening in the show. One thing I never had a single question about was, would you do this for your kids? Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah.

Anything. You know? But there's an incredible balance to that scene, which is the dance, which is the scene with Mave, which kind of presents this Canada dream. And she asks all the questions, a parent would ask a kid who was like,

guess what? I'm going on a road trip. And you're just like, okay, where are you going to sleep? How are you going to eat? eat. How are you going to pay for gas? And it's like, she's just like, where are the kids going to go to school?

Like, where are we going to buy groceries? And that's, I mean, you and Amelia have such an incredible thing in this series, but that moment, can you just tell me a little bit about playing that scene and Robbie's dreams kind of coming down to earth there? Yeah, you know, it's really interesting that you bring that scene up because that was truly actually one of the hardest ones for me. Do you remember? Do you remember how much I was tripping that day?

Well, yeah, because you're trying to, well, no, you're just trying to balance like, you have so many places that you need to get to. And where are, are we going too far? Am I giving too much up now? Sure. And how much do you fight? Exactly. Yeah. No, because obviously Sally was direct in that day. And that was strangely a scene that I struggled a lot with in a way that I didn't with some other scenes. And to your point, yes. You know, it's so interesting sometimes like when you think about, right, like acting related, I'd be an acting nerd right now real quick. But you think about an acting relationship and it's not a literal thing. So Maeve's my niece, but my relationship to Maeve is often mom, which doesn't make any literal sense.

But like when I'm playing scenes with her, I often just give over to what arises if I act like she's my mom. Yeah. You know? And that's what we do in life too. We just don't think about it. Like we have an acting relationship with people that's not the same is our literal relationship.

So you really want to try and find that. The last thing I'll say about that is how fucking good is Amelia. She is so talented. She is so incredible. I mean, the way that girl works, the way she shows up prepared, the way she, and she's such a light and a delight, like, so impressive. Yeah, those scenes pop for sure.

Sally, you've had a long career as a director, and you've directed all kinds of genres, including Los Angeles basketball genre. I wonder how do you approach scenes like the ones we're talking about now just to stay with it in terms of directing intimacy and comfort? You know, it's very different than the scale that you sometimes ask to do,

even within a show like this. That's hard because, I mean, obviously Brad is set up, you know, the words are there. So sometimes it's actually kind of easy. I mean, I have beautiful words. I have two great actors who've done their job. And my job is just to sort of gently guide them to the right spot. Not always gently.

Someone doesn't like continuity. Is this another sandwich thing or what is it? That's Tom. No. But really, I mean, I was an actress for many years before I did this. So I really, I don't come to any scene with any expectations. And sometimes I'll have actors who will ask me for notes before they even start. Not these people, but, you know, before they even start, see anything for me.

I'm like, no, I don't know what you're going to do. And I really have to watch the performance. And for me, it's a feeling. inside and knowing if I feel it and if I believe it. A lot of times with Mark, he'd come up and go, what do you think? And he would always know, because sometimes I don't know what to tell you, but I just know it's not right yet.

And you know it's not right yet. That's why I was asking you. Yeah, I know. So we're both, and we're both going. It's not right. It's not right. I don't know. Should we do it again?

I think we should do it again. Okay, let's do one more time. I mean, but sometimes that is it, Or sometimes it's one word or asking a question. I think a lot of times I would just ask you a question. And I go, oh. Yeah, because by asking a question, then you start, oh, yeah, you're right. Okay, yeah, I haven't thought about that.

Especially when the question is, don't you think that could be better? But, I mean, it's just a very hard question. I think I just let them guide me and then I know what to tell them. And sometimes it's just simply, you know, can you do that faster? That was a big one for me. You like that note, don't you? Can you just do that fast? I know exactly what you want.

I was asking Tom, I was saying to him outside of the theater that this seems like the kind of thing that if he wasn't in, he would be watching. Like it's the kind of like crime show, awesome piece of crime storytelling. And Mark, you were in one of my favorite crime films, collateral. I was set in Los Angeles. Thank you. Thanks, man. Bring that goatee back. It was sick.

The slick back hair. It was awesome. I was wondering if you had any... That was me in collateral. Anyone like on the panel, honestly, if there were any reference points from whether it was other series or other films that you were like, this is the kind of thing we're looking for

because the show has a very unique feel but also as like, you know, points where it echoes, you know, maybe some classic crime films. I mean, I think for me it was... Structurally, heat was an influence there. But I think the movie, that spoke to me, and it's the reason we have a quarry was breaking away. I don't know why, but that's the movie that I grew up watching all the time.

It still resonates with me. It's about friendship. And it's why we have a quarry in the show, is I've always wanted to tell a story, like Breaking Away, that was about friendship. And I really think Rob being Cliff's story is a story of friendship. So I think that was an influence on me. In terms of the crime story, you know, Heat was there.

I think the town was another one that it kind of played. plays in a similar arena, I think. And then, you know, and then just trying to keep the emotion in the front of the piece, you know. So embrace the genre expectations while also trying to subvert it. And I think that's what we did in May or two. We wrapped our arms around the hoodonit, but we also tried to go a little deeper with the characters and the relationships within the community. So I think those are, I mean, strangely breaking away was a big influence on me,

especially for the Robbie storyline. That's awesome. I never would have thought that. That's great. They got a reboot breaking away about the cyclists are robbing stash houses. I'm in. Who throws their pump into his spokes?

Jamie. So, Brad, on the... Sorry, you don't know that one. Oh, God. On the podcast a couple weeks ago, when the show premiered, I was, as we often are these weeks, finding different ways to compliment you and your writing.

And there was one thing specific that I said on the pod that I'd like to bring up again here, which is I was reading a novel recently, and there's a character who teaches literature, and she says the advice that she tells her students is make it worse. Not in terms of quality, but make everyone's situation the most extreme version of it

so you can really see the stakes here. And you are exceptional at that. Everything is terrible. Without spoiling things, I wondered if you could talk a little bit about how you would grade yourself on how bad you made it in the episode still to come.

And you guys can chime in as well. Yeah, I mean, on the episode still to come, you're saying, Andy. Well, you give us both sides, the A side and the B side. So I always think a question I asked myself when I'm starting to write something is why are we dropping in at this point in a character?

Why right now? And I think I can answer that for every character in the show, I think. I can say, why are we coming? into Lizzie's life right now right why are we coming into Grasos why are we coming into alias and so i like to play that game in the case of tom and robbie they're both going through a crisis of faith in some way tom's is a more overt crisis of faith he's he's quite literally lost his faith robbie's is he has a faith

it's just quite a different faith um and so i think i made things as painful for both of them as i possibly could yeah and i think And I think what I like about that is, you know, is that it gives them a wider arc, I would say. And I felt that way about the character of mayor, too, is that I had to start her in a place of a lot of pain in order to get some level of healing at the end. And I think I like to have big arcs for characters in a show. And so in order to get a greater distance, you have to start them in a slightly lower place. In this case, they're both.

So I would say A plus for the pain I put on these characters, all the characters in the show. But I think that's what I loved about it was so much, is that I feel like that's why people can relate to it so much. I don't find it that much different than people's reality. Maybe we don't have a murder happening, but we've all been through terribly awful things in our life and we're jumping into that in this film at that time.

So I think that's why I enjoyed it so much that I feel it so deeply on an emotional level. And it was wonderful to be able to get such great words to direct. Tom, I mean, when it's this incredibly pivotal moment in a character's life but also seemingly like every scene is he's going through like an absolute gauntlet. Like, Robbie is like, are you almost like good? Let's just jump in it. Like, let's, let's, I don't need 10 scenes where I'm just doing exposition and walking around. Like, I like being in this or is it, is it daunting?

Yeah, I want to get in there. Yeah. I mean, when you're in there with, with Brad and with Sally and Jeremiah, you stay in there all day. And you get in there and you're with people who understand what they're doing and understand that all of it is in service of the story. and you do that and you leave it at work. And then you go home in a good mood. You know, like everything about the process was a joy, even the painful parts. And that's what happens when you're around really talented people

who know how to run the ship kind of. But no, I'll, you know, I'm comfortable there. I think we can wrap up there, guys. Thank you so much for participating in this tonight. Mark, Tom, Sally, Brad. Thank you so much for Andy and I. Thank you to everybody for coming out. Thank you to Vidiots, KCRW.

And you can watch or listen to this on the watch feed tomorrow at some point. Go birds. Hey, Mama, thanks for making all my favorite recipes. Hi, Ma. Thanks for your unfiltered advice. Hi, Mom. Thanks for always being by the phone. Hey, Mom. Happy Mother's Day. When you ship UPS Air at the UPS store, your items arrive on time or your money back. Guaranteed at no extra cost.

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