The Watch - Taylor Sheridan Is Leaving Paramount. What’s Next? Plus, ‘Nobody Wants This’ Season 2 and ‘The Chair Company’ Episode 3.

Episode Date: October 27, 2025

Chris and Andy talk about the news that Taylor Sheridan is leaving Paramount for NBCUniversal and how this might affect the TV industry at large (2:39). Then they talk about the first three episodes of ‘Nobody Wants This’ Season 2 and the changes the show has made between its first and second seasons (42:20), before breaking down the third episode of ‘The Chair Company’ (52:12). Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel here for full episodes of ‘The Watch’ and so much more! Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Producers: Kaya McMullen and Kai Grady Video Producer: Jon Jones Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Did you know about one and three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you? Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away. Trimfaya, guselcomab, taken by injection, is a prescription medicine for adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, who may benefit from taking injections or pills or phototherapy, and for adults with active psoriotic arthritis. Serious allergic reactions and increased risk of infections and liver problems may occur.

Before a treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or if you need a vaccine. Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trim Faya. Tap this ad to learn more about Trimfaya, including important safety information. This episode is brought to you by Brooks. Running connects us to a rush of energy that flows through our world.

The cheers of friends that unlock a new gear within us, the intersection of interest that inspires a run crew, the support that gets you over the finish line. Connection is why we move forward and what inspires us to keep going. Let's run there. Learn more at brooksrunning.com. I need supports to have to clear the run. Stand up and walk now.

Hello, and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at the ringer.com. And joining me on the other line, there's a new mayor in Kingstown. It's Andy Rewald. You're so excited. Hold on.

Let me get another sip of my restorative broth. Andy, it's great to see you, man. This is the closest I've ever been, last night was the closest I've ever been to demanding an emergency podcast. And then I remembered that you were, asleep because you're in England. It's great to see you today on the Watch podcast.

Two big pieces of news. Taylor Sheridan is leaving Paramount and going to Universal. And we're also going to talk a little bit about Paramount's efforts to buy Warner Brothers Discovery and how these two stories, how they come together, how they meet in the middle. Interesting. We're also going to take a spin through a couple of comedies that are on TV right now, especially nobody wants this season two on Netflix and the chair company, which aired its 30. episode on HBO Max and HBO on Sunday. Andy, great sweater. How you doing? Oh, thanks. You know,

bright red here is the Labor Party. So it's actually like a red wave. Yeah, just politically in case you thought I was wavering or just hedging my bets to make sure I can get through customs when I finally come home. Make America Greenwald again? Sure. I mean, eventually it has to happen, right? It's hard to imagine, but it will. You know, it's interesting, like being, in cryosleep when you are awake and then vice versa, because when I woke up and I checked the trades, as I do because, you know, man of the people, man of the industry, I saw the Taylor Sheridan news.

And I actually foolishly thought, huh, I can't believe this happened while Chris was asleep. And then I opened my email and there was a document on Google from you that was like podcast, run of show. And it was basically like this, like a Martin Luther manifesto. It had the strongest authorial voice of any notes doc I've ever seen. You are so excited to talk about this. I'm glad that you respect my work ethic.

You know, I mean, very few things get me fired up like this. There's the trading of an all-NBA player. There is the firing of a Louisiana state coach. You know, I like coaching carousals. I like transactional news. I don't know why. I prefer stability in my personal life. but I love watching the chaos of things happen.

And last night I was just hanging out. Well, I think I was watching Chair Company and Matt Bellany's newsletter, what I'm hearing, just popped up in my email. And I was like, let me see what old Matt has cooking on a Sunday night, that devilish grin of his. And what do you know? He broke a huge story.

Taylor Sheridan is going to be leaving Paramount. According to Matt Bellany in his newsletter, and I'm sure he and Lucas will be talking about this on the town. So I highly recommend people go listen to that for actual reporting and inside industry analysis. But Sheridan, after a long relationship with Paramount, where it saw him become one of the most prolific and successful modern television creators and showrunners. Yeah. When his deal is up in 2028, he is going to be joining a Universal, NBC Universal Comcast.

He was basically wooed by Donna Langley. I can go through a couple of the sort of major narrative headline points of, Matt's reporting. But this is a really, really big deal. It's a big deal because I think that if you had been reading a lot about David Ellison's acquisition of Paramount, David Ellison, obviously from Skydance, and he recently purchased Paramount and that deal went through, he has talked ad nauseum about Taylor Sheridan. He has mentioned multiple times their close relationship, that he is a creator unlike any other, that he will do, he's going to move heaven and earth to make sure that Taylor Sheridan is making TV at Paramount for as long as he can.

And now he's not. Before David Ellison really has time to measure for drapes in offices at Paramount, Taylor Sheridan, like, basically the crown jewel of the television side of Paramount is going over to Universal. Before I get into details, any initial reactions to this? Well, I think it is important, and you did say this, the timing of this is not as dramatic as the headlines might lead you to believe. As you said, he is going to move his television business, his new television business over in essentially two years, right?

That's quite a long time. It also means that all of his existing shows, and you can recite them better than I can, but I will. Mayor, do it. Taylor's current shows include Mayor of Kingston, season four is airing currently. Tulsa King, which is in its third season. And then coming soon, there's Dunn-Ranch. I'm getting through it.

Okay, okay. Yeah, coming soon, we've got Dutton Ranch, which is the Annette Benning and Ed Harris show with Colhouser and Kelly Riley. That's the Yellowstone spinoff. There's Y, Colin Marshalls, which is Luke Grimes from Yellowstone's spinoff. Wait, is it a question?

No, it's like why. I think it's supposed to be like Yellowstone Oh. Col. It was like, why Marshalls? And then Timothy Olfant shows up and it's just like, because I have a beach house. That's why Marshalls. Jesus.

Lioness Season 3 was just renewed after closing the Nicole Kimman deal. Nola King is an upcoming show with Sam Jackson and the Madison's with Michelle Pfeiffer, Kurt Russell, Patrick J. Adams, which is also a Yellowstone show, I believe. And of course, Landman, season two coming in November. So all of those remain both for the upcoming seasons and any potential future seasons. Those are locked in to Paramount. It's about new business. And we saw something similar happen when Ryan Murphy left FX for an enormous blockbuster deal

that was kind of an industry rattling move that showed that Netflix was changing its business paradigm and was going to put out these mega deals for showrunners and altours. But at the same time, American Horror Story, American Crime Story, all of these longer-running Ryan Murphy anthology series remain on FX and continue to be on FX. So the earthquake of this is more industry-facing at the moment than I think it is audience-facing. But it is very notable. So before we get into the paramount of it, I think I could speak to. the Universal of it, which is less reported because of all of the tumult at literally every other studio in town. Donald Langley, who is very widely respected as the film boss at Universal,

her consolidation of power at Universal taking over the TV side as well, has been relatively underreported and unremarked upon. Anytime anyone can be associated with the term consolidates power, there are going to be some major moves. And what is interesting, interesting about this is that it is a, at the very worst, it is a floor setter or floor resetter for Universal's streaming strategy. And in a way, it kind of echoes, I think, what NBC has become, which is basically the Dick Wolf Network. When you get in business with Taylor Sheridan, you are in business with a lot of things, including branded steakhouses. But you are also in business with one of, if not the most prolific creators who can generate

an enormous quantity of TV at a relatively consistent quality and can attract stars. I can't believe you were able to get through that last part. I was just staring into your... I miss you. I miss you. Taylor Sheridan in the room with you right now.

I guess I just miss America. I don't know. There aren't very many landmen here. That's why you got the red sweater on. But I guess so. And it, you know, it solves a lot of problems for you. If you are trying to both program at volume to expand your business,

And there was a lot of reporting this week about just how much NBC Comcast Universal is betting on the NBA and how much it's going to need to, you know, massively, massively, massively scale subscribers in order to pay for that deal. This is another huge expenditure, but it is another play to shore up the base, basically, and guarantee a baseline of subscribers. The downside, and I'd like to hear you speak about this, you were mentioning you do like sports. analogies. I don't know if you ever read a website called Grantland that combines pop culture and sports, but... So does the ringer, yeah. There is...

That's true. Is there a version of this that this is Albert Pooleholds to the Angels? It's a really good question, man. And for those who don't watch baseball... Matt mentioned this. Matt mentioned this in his piece where it's like, there could be, despite all the public facing, like, we just love Taylor. We just want to be in the

Taylor business forever. That perhaps the Ellison's and Cindy Holland and folks of Paramount, felt like they had seen the best days of Taylor Sheridan. Yellowstone was a very expensive show that ended very poorly.

A lot of these shows that he has on the air right now, you could make the argument are on their way to being finished or should be finished. So I think that within the realm of the reality of the TV show or the reality that the

TV show Lioness has created, I think you could do one or two two more seasons of Zoe Saldanya trying to decide whether or not she wants to stay at home with Dave Annabelle or go out into the world and seduce women into becoming lionesses and attacking terrorists. Like, there's, like, you could do that show for as long as you wanted, but like- I felt your thumb on the scale there as to what you would prefer, but please continue. You do not even pretend to be.

Kingstown's in season four. Obviously, Jeremy Runner, I guess, could just keep doing that show for as long as he wants, but of what I've seen of the fourth season, I think that's another one where maybe creatively it's kind of reaching it in. Also, it's worth noting that a lot of the stuff that maybe you're thinking is Taylor Sheridan is no longer Taylor Sheridan. He's not really writing on mayor of Kingston. He doesn't work on Tulsa King. Some of the Yellowstone spinoffs have different showrunners attached,

and Taylor Sheridan's not writing any of the scripts. Now, he wrote all of Landman season two. So he is heavily involved in a bunch of stuff. But from the Paramount side, I guess I could see them saying, like, we feel like we've got, we've seen his best days. And he is expensive. And his shows, as Matt reported, between $15 and $20 million per episode for some of these shows, they're massively expensive. He shoots on his own property, you know, so there's a lot of like kickback action going there. That's my description of it, not Matt's.

But I can make the argument otherwise, though. I can make a pretty strong argument for the future for him, too. It's not, and it's worth noting, it's not just Taylor. It's his longtime producing partner, David Glasser, whose 101 Studios is branded on every one of these programs. I think that that last point is interesting, and it's certainly something that I bet deep background or maybe even not even that deep background, Paramount Shills will start spinning, which is, it already had become a, you know, that they are in business with Taylor Sheridan. Taylor Sheridan in no way works for them. They are basically partners with him and his enterprises, which means, accepting episodic budgets that are, I mean, the numbers you're quoting, those are the numbers that HBO spends on House the Dragon, right? Like, those are the highest level of episodic numbers that we usually get. And, you know, it's, there aren't, I mean, I haven't seen a lot of the Yellowstone spin-offs, but I don't think there are a lot of dragons in them. I know there are a lot of, like, war helicopters. I can see why 1883 and 1923 cost a lot of money. But I think that

they're referring more to things like Lyonists, where he's got like, frigging gunships flying. going over. Yeah. And the other thing is he doesn't, you know what? I was about to couch this as if we don't really know. I think I feel definitive in saying he doesn't take a lot of notes. And I can't imagine any longstanding relationship structures that he felt the need to respect or grudgingly accept a note here or there from.

Those aren't going to exist in his new operation. It is basically a fiefdom within the larger Comcast universal properties. So it's massive, and it definitely is going to be framed as a, did Ellison take his eye off the ball by pursuing the Duffer brothers and promising them, you know, their follow-up to Stranger Things and cinematic releases, and did he feel slighted by that? Is it going to be a David Benioff and D.B. Y. situation where Netflix swoops in, you know, pays them untold millions to make the follow-up to, Game of Thrones spends untold millions on it and you end up with two seasons of a you know

I still think kind of intriguing but I don't think the general marketplace feels like like it was a particularly successful show. Chris we're doing the head I want you to do the heart what does your heart say about this move? Well as always I find him a fan and for yeah I find him fascinating I find this decision fascinating I think as far as creators in the current TV landscape goes, he strikes me as relatively unique because not only is he so prolific, he's essentially his own studio, right?

Absolutely. He's got, obviously has sway with some pretty big names, John Hamm, Nicole Kidman, Billy Bob Thornton, you know, Samuel L. Jackson, Michelle Pfeiffer, Kurt Russell, like all of these people who are circling or attached to his projects.

I'm very curious to see what happens, by the way, with how those people feel about their shows now that Taylor Sheridan and may or may not be heavily involved in them. You know, I assume he is going to see out the contracted work that he has, but, like, there's a big difference between Taylor Sheridan writing 10 hours of your show and writing the pilot, you know? So I'll be curious to watch that.

But I find it fascinating how he has, also, aside from all these stars, like a kind of stock company that he works with a lot, there are a lot of faces that pop up in a bunch of his shows. He essentially has his own means of production by shooting. on his own land in Texas and I think is kind of a self-sufficient creator in that way.

So all of that stuff I've always found fascinating as is the really wild swings and mood swings of his shows themselves, which I don't think are as easy to pin down as people who maybe only take a casual look at them might think. Outside of that,

I find the destination, this is a little bit more head than heart, I find the destination pretty amusing where he's going pretty amusing. Because one of the things that drove people a little bit nuts in the sort of emergence of Yellowstone and the emergence of Sheridan is the fact that Yellowstone was still streaming on Peacock. Peacock had made a deal in an earlier iteration and an earlier Paramount administration. They were like, well, we need money. So we'll be arms dealers as well as a studio.

And they sold off the streaming rights to Paramount, sorry, to Yellowstone to Peacock. So while Peacock has been airing, you can only watch Yellowstone streaming on Peacock, despite the fact that it was basically the flagship show of Paramount Plus, you know, if you understand what I mean. So all of the spin-offs, all of that stuff, it airs on the Paramount Network. But when you want to watch it on two days after it's been aired, you go to Peacock to do it. So now he is in a weird way coming home. I am very interested to see whether or not this changes the kind of stuff he does and also whether or not he actually takes a step away

from the amount of TV he's been making and goes back to features because I've long been very interested in his TV work but I think his features are absolutely inarguably better. Hell or Highwater, Wind River, Sicario, Like, he is an incredibly talented feature scriptwriter.

And if Donna Langley came in and said, let's do a bunch of different stuff together here. Why don't we make some movies? That would be actually creatively, like, probably the most exciting thing for me. You know, in Matt's reporting, he mentioned that one of the things that happened that sort of sent this sideways was apparently,

according to Matt, Paramount trying to get involved in these streaming rates to a movie that Taylor... had going at Warner Brothers. And Paramount was like, well, we'll distribute it. And he was not a fan of that. And then according also to Matt, he was not a fan of the fact that he found out secondhand

that Nicole Kidman had signed up to do another Paramount show outside of Lioness. So it just goes to show you that these things are all very delicate, no matter how rich and how powerful people are. Like, there are still egos and there are still, there are still little like comedies of manners taking place and the biggest with the biggest stakes. Can I give you the best case scenario here in my mind for Peacock,

which is plucky, like no pun intended, like has reasons to watch it, has reasons to keep subscribing to it. What I find interesting about it is that for as long as I've been writing about TV and we've been talking about on the podcast, I think we often go back to this idea that unlike a lot, of the streaming services, certainly all of them when they launched, NBC has always had a pretty strong brand identity. And what was challenging about the early days of Peacock is that they didn't seem to track one to one. I would argue that we are starting to see that shape take hold a little

bit more in a way that I think is smart and potentially sustainable. And I say that without Matt's expertise of any of the actual financial stuff that gets things done these days. So I have no idea. I keep referring to it, but like the financial numbers of the NBA deal are like terrifying, even if you don't fully understand what they mean. But what I mean is you are starting to see the contours of a streaming service that does a little bit of everything and feels a little bit like comfortable TV. It has all the Bravo reality shows and the traders, which are good business and Andy Cohen and all that stuff. It has the comedy legacy.

So it has streaming parks and rec streaming the office. And they've doubled down on that or at least accentuated it by the paper, which I think is really good and fits right into the people who are like, oh, what's your next watch? It has the Dick Wolf universe of all those Chicago shows, all the Law and Order shows, and it has NBA basketball, it has football, and now you add Taylor Sherrod, the Taylor Sherrod and Plank, which is a, you know, could or should be a dependable type of show with a dependable type of viewer.

And if you squint, you see it, especially because in the background of all this, and maybe it's better served in the background, the original programming department has a bunch of kind of wild swings coming up. There's the miniature wife, which is a very strange sounding comedy with Elizabeth Banks and Matthew McFadden. There's a, again, what sounds like a very creative spy show called Ponies coming with Amelia Clark. If you look at their original slate, it is not playing it safe. And it's interesting to see the kind of like stabilizing guardrails of all this other stuff go up around it. Is that a strategy to survive in this consolidating insane economy?

I don't know, but I'm interested. What do you think if you're obviously for our listeners who don't know about the vagaries of overall deals and development deals and things like that? Okay, so it's late 2025 now. Taylor Sheridan has a bunch of shows either hitting the airwaves, about to hit the airwaves, or scheduled to hit the airwaves next year. Presumably Landman will retain its audience, let's just say, and there will be desire for a third season of that. I'm sure. Realistically, does Taylor Sheridan start handing off duties to some of these shows to a non-existent coaching tree? Because unlike lots of showrunners, I would say, I can't really identify a ton of people who have come out from under Taylor Sheridan to have their own thing.

You know, this is not Chris Carter to Vince Gilligan to the Breaking Bad Mafia. This is a guy who rises shit. The reason why the baseball analogy doesn't work is because, when Albert Pujold signed with the Angels, he didn't continue to provide batting services to the Cardinals for the next two years. Do you know what I mean? Like it doesn't work like that. The way contracts work generally is you are contracted, you're still connected and you are still producing the shows that predate your new deal. Hearing about, for example, Francesca Sloan leaving Mr. Mrs. Smith's season two at Amazon and presumably an overall

deal that she may have had to go work on Big Little Lies Season 3 at HBO isn't as common as I think you often would think. In so doing, she left immediately and she is no longer involved in Mr. Mrs. Smith's season two-year window. I don't know if there's going to be like negotiations or wiggle room, but he loves Landman and America loves Landman and Chris Ryan loves Landman. So I don't know if I just think he would make it. Yeah. I'd be eager to hear experts who listen to a podcast tell me why I'm wrong. you, like, does he start working on things for Peacock now? And when the calendar flips to 2028, he's like, I have five shows. Okay. So for what it's worth, the streamers are already scheduling for 2028. That's already happening. I know it feels far away for us,

interminable if you read political news. But that is where these people are. So the question is, Do they want something from him on the air in 2028? And I imagine they do. And I truly do not know contractually what services he can provide to what. Because I think the goal would be to have stuff on the air as soon as possible to maximize what is, no doubt, an enormous spend. But I think it's a two-track thing. Pitching things or developing things or slow walking things or redirecting things.

A lot of pitching going on. Exactly. Telling them what he's going to be. doing would probably make sense right now. Yeah. Okay. I'm curious, yeah, because that would be the, it's almost like, you know, it's not like pencils up when 2028 rolls around. I'm sure there are going to be things in, in the flow. But like you mentioned, Ryan Murphy has stuff still airing on FX, you know, and on Disney properties, you know, even though he's at Netflix. So I, we'll see what happens with that. One of the interesting things about the destination, about Taylor Sheridan's

destination is how it affects Comcast's standing in the last network standing sweepstakes because the long-discussed talk of consolidation and contraction seems to finally be upon us. Andy and I made a joke about this last week, but then forgot to actually talk about it. Talk to you about it on the Thursday show. but last Tuesday David Zazlov came out and said because Paramount has made

two bids for us I think upwards Was it two or three? It was a lot. I think they're anticipating a third bid. David Zazlov said we should look into selling some or all of this company

whatever is best for the shareholders, etc. And has suggested it's been reported by Matt Bellany and others, that there are other bidders kicking the tires outside of Paramount. Now, they may not be anywhere close to the consistently, like, throwing down money like the way Paramount is and saying, how about $25 a share or whatever it is.

But there are rumored to be offers incoming or being considered from Amazon, MGM, from even Netflix, even Netflix, Coceo, Greg Peters has kind of been like, mergers don't really work. and then we like to build things rather than buy things. And Apple and of course, Comcast Universal. Now, I think everybody took it as a FAA complete that Paramount was going to do this because they were the ones who seemed to be showing up at the table

with a bag of money. But as Matt pointed out, and as anybody who read the story about Taylor Sheridan can figure out, you don't do this if you think you're going to be closing up shop or sixth place or some small, small fry streaming network. You don't go out and get Taylor Sheridan in the NBA and then say, oh man, well, David Ellison is here. So I guess I just have to like be happy showing below deck reruns. You know, like this feels like a significant power up move

by Comcast Universal. The reason why I bring all of this up, you know, just I want to get your impression of the Warner Brothers sale in general, although I know it's a difficult or complicated conversation to have given some of your employment. I'll speak about that. Yeah. But but yeah, like I think two weeks ago I was like this is going to be like when Ellison bought Paramount where we pretend like it may or may not happen, but it's always going to happen. It was always going to happen.

And one of the reasons why I think it's the most likely to happen is just because he seems to have the quickest pathway to yes from the White House right now. So that would be very helpful. But we'll see. I mean, I'm very curious to know what you think about this. Well, a couple of things. Like, I don't know how often I should be or should not be doing this, but like the caveat or the disclosures is like I work for some of these companies.

And currently I'm working for more than one of them. And I'm in England right now working for Warner Brothers Discovery. I have a project at Universal. I have worked for most of these companies, but never paramount at times. And all I can say is, you know, I feel like my track record of being honest, sometimes painfully so, is pretty consistent. And that's all like, that's pretty much all I'm capable of doing or wired to do. So I'll continue to do that and just speak as freely as I feel that I'm capable of speaking. So I think there are multiple ways into the Warner Brothers sale.

I think one of them is with, we were doing head versus heart. stuff, the heart version of it is, this is absolutely devastating and it sucks. And it sucks for emotional and cultural reasons, not because the Warner Brothers themselves were like famously great guys or they have an unparalleled 100 year track record of success or like the time AOL bought them. But it is a legacy studio with a legacy footprint in an industry town that is feeling the ground fallout from under it. And particularly in a year when HBO has continued to produce phenomenal shows, Tess just ended a week ago, in a year in which the heads of Warner Brothers films,

Pamela Abdi and Mike Duluca, and they're on an all-time heater. Or on an all-time heater in a way that has felt really inspiring, even to people who don't have any stake in Warner Brothers movies, because it felt like at the top of the year, the rumblings were that David Zazlov was going to replace them. And then every movie they've put into theaters, for the most part, has been a success. And they arguably laid out a blueprint for how to do it where you mix. And how to market.

Yeah. Like very crowd-pleasing IP with originals, with big directors getting like a huge check to try and create some new IP of the road. So you get sinners, you get weapons, you get one bad off another. And all this happening, despite, you know, the studio being on, you. it's unluckily in the hands of someone who basically used the system very well to do something that is insane, which is to buy a successful media company with debt, which is what David's House Love did, and then burdening this company with all this debt. And despite that, you know, it still seems to be somehow staying afloat. So there have been like, you know,

people, smart people in the industry have said, oh, well, the only move going forward, this is even before the discovery deal will be Paramount and Warner Brothers somehow only because they are legacy studios that can't really scale up without someone else. That's an important point that maybe we should just make to people who are not living in Los Angeles. And I think that the biggest thing for me is what it would mean for the city and what it would mean for people who work in this industry. But beyond that, what you have to understand is the reason what's animating all of this

is that these studios are falling in. behind Netflix at a pretty alarming pace, you know, in terms of their subscriber bases. And they can't compete with Apple. They can't compete with Amazon just, you know, financially. And they don't have the legacy characters and IP and theme parks and cruises that Disney does. So they're always, always at a disadvantage from the people saw coming from, you know, years back. I think it'll be interesting. Like there's already been some rumblings that the WGA or the Producers Guild that SAG, like the unions might start. flexing whatever muscles they feel they still have to disrupt this or stop this.

I think that there's real concern that, okay, let's say Netflix buys Warner Brothers, and we don't know how real that interest is, but if Netflix buys Warner Brothers, is that the end of theatrical? Like, is that just, is that it? If Apple buys them is at the end of theatrical, because they make, you know, they make little slights towards putting movies in theater sometimes, but that's just not their business. And they've increasingly stopped pretending that it is.

the Paramount thing that is also really freaking people out is the politics of it. And I think that should be freaking people out. If Paramount feels emboldened to do a deal that would normally draw the ire of regulators as it should, but feels confident doing it because they have special status from a deeply corrupt administration, that fucking sucks for everyone. That fucking sucks for capitalism. It sucks for citizens of this country. It sucks for everyone.

And that's not even getting into like, give Barry Weiss the keys to CNN. Like that is just, it is so fundamentally crooked if the whisper is clear the room because no one's going to get approval except Trump's buddy Larry. Like, that's just, that's Banana Republic shit.

And I know we're already there, but this is the topic we're talking about. And so this is the one that is making me pissed off. today. Yeah. I agree with you. I think that it would be very troubling. I think it would also be troubling if Universal were shut out of this because they have

MSNBC. You know what I mean? And because Trump doesn't like Brian Roberts or whatever it is. And which weird is how quickly it's all happening because NBC Universal has already announced versus that. They're spinning off their news business. MSNBC is becoming like, what is it? They're changing their name completely to like MS now or something.

Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, they're already divesting these other networks. And Zazlov was spinning off Warner Brothers Discovery. Right. That was the plan is that Warner Brothers Discovery was going to split the streaming and studio side away from the linear cable television. Yeah, and stick the linear stuff with the debt, with the hope that the other company would be sexier or more successful.

And now maybe he's like, no, maybe I won't do that at all. Maybe I'll just sell. You know, it's all a pretty sad indictment of where we are, not that these institutions made good decisions. It should be propped up by goodwill. But what is this business? What is it for? Who is it for?

Who gets to be involved in it? It's pretty existential stuff. Yeah. I've tried to, over the last couple of weeks, get my head around, you know, especially actually, I think one of the reasons why I've been hesitant to talk about this is because I don't really know what I want.

Like, I don't know whether or not, I mean, I know I don't want. necessarily paramount to buy Warner Brothers. But I don't know what I want when I sit down and I turn on a smart TV. How do I want it to work? What do I want given to me? You know, how do I want to give it to? But I think that, you know, it's like, it's weird for me as a 48-year-old person to be like,

we got to get back to having three channels. It's so sweet. You're not even 48 yet, but you didn't. I mean, you know, like, eventually I'll be 48. But like, it's like, do you want to go back to having four channels? Do you want to go back to cable? Do you want to go back to, or do you want to break it all apart where everybody is always watching everything on demand on their phones or whatever it is? Like, I'm trying to be open-minded about the realities of the way people watch television and the way people process culture now to the extent that these two conversations are kind of separate.

Like, ultimately, like, this is of real. importance to us because I think we have sentimental attachment to certain, like, iconic companies and iconic studios. And we want HBO to keep making really good television. And I want Paul Thomas Anderson to get to make something with the same scope as one battle after another. And it seems like Pam Abdi and Mike DeLuca will would at least try to make that happen. But when it comes to, like the consolidation and the contraction, sometimes I am of the mind of we need to go through

the dark time to get to some kind of like equilibrium. Obviously, there's not enough money in the world to keep these companies functional unless they have a billionaire parent like Larry Ellison

or a sovereign wealth fund or something. Disney did the same thing here with Fox where they are saddled with debt, and nothing is good enough for Disney, and that's why people are getting squeezed at the parks, as ATM machines, because they're trying to make this company profitable any way they can. I'll say, though, this is just a small thing.

Everything you're saying I agree with, and I think it's factually true. I think what is missing in any of these conversations is any consideration of the human element. And because I am currently working for Warner Brothers and HBO, I won't even use them as an example, although I do think that what we are sentimental for is the fact that there is still some version of the HBO that we love in play

because we had task last week and we have the chair company right now. You know what I mean? And that's awesome to Derry and we'll have industry and we'll have like our stuff, yeah. The example I'll use that is a good example is when Disney bought Fox,

there was an enormous amount of speculation as to what would happen with FX. Would it either be shuttered, would it be marginalized, would it be exploited, meaning would John Landgraf and the other executives be plucked out of the company and culture they've built and put in charge of something bigger, because bigger is always better. And I hope to one day read like an interesting behind-the-scenes article about this, or maybe there was no drama at all, so it wouldn't be a particularly good read. But FX has thrived. And I'm sure that some aspects of the culture has changed.

But for whatever reason, Bob Eiger didn't think the Soderberg, Adam Driver, Star Wars movie was a good idea. But you thought Shogun was cool. Yeah. Did think Shogun was cool and did understand that what FX has built, and we talk about it a lot. Like, it's the consistency of the leadership structure. It's the consistency of taste. It's how they engage and deal with creators that keep people coming back.

And it results in a consistency of quality and of interest and of noticeable things that do move some needles in an impossible environment. And then every so often it also gives you a Shogun. And like the conversation about that, like nurturing something, I mean, the conversation's over because there are very few places. Like places I mean like buyers, streamers, networks that have any kind of consistency anymore that aren't just like those fucking wind puppets in front of car dealerships, just desperately hoping to pick up some breeze.

And that's really what like you're never, I'm not, we're not fans of corporations. I like fans of consistency and quality and culture when we get it. And I think that we're worried that we're just going to lose all that to an algorithm. Yeah. And the biggest worry that I have is that if these decisions are getting made for these purely financial reasons, which I'm sure they always have been, but there is romantic nostalgia about an era when the people running the companies at least had a passing interest in the culture of movie making or television. Or the product that they make, yeah, the audience that they're attempting to engage with.

But that we start getting less and less stuff to talk about. Now maybe we have too much to talk about and we wind up missing a bunch of stuff or getting overwhelmed by choice or whatever. But that's my primary concern. But we'll see where it goes. I mean, it seems like these two stories to me do feel tied together. That, you know, you can think something is going to go one way. and then out of nowhere, you know,

one of the main characters of this decides to go to a different company and that can change the balance of power in some ways. Or maybe I'm overrating Taylor Sheridan's importance, I don't know. Well, again, it's, we don't know because we don't know what the priorities are. For whatever it's worth, like as much as we want to pigeonhole,

the Ellison's, and Paramount, as one thing, hiring Cindy Holland, late of Netflix, does not jive with this idea that it is just like a right-wing heartland takeover of a legacy brand. That's not what she is known for. That's not who she is. And that's not the type of programming that she is historically made. And I don't mean to look down on like Heartland programming. I just mean it is never as simple as a slanted headline might have you

believe. And we don't know what she's going to be privileging. We just know that their checkbooks are open, but not open enough for the, what's name of his ranch? The four sixes. The four sixes. That's confusing. Yeah. Pick one. Four or six. Take a quick break and then we'll get into some laughs. The playoffs are here, and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul predicts. Follow all the playoff dishes, swishes, wishes, wishes, and misses. Predict the spread, the total points, and even the game winner. Sign up for Fandual Predicts and predict it from the couch.

Offered by Fandual Prediction Markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant. 18 plus. Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tools. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Ever have a plan come together out of nowhere and realize you're missing something? Like a last minute beach day, a spontaneous hike or an outdoor movie night you didn't plan for,

that's when Prime's same-day delivery as you're back. Getting you exactly what you need fast and reliably so you can actually join the moment instead of watching from the sidelines. Same day delivery, it's on Prime. Visit Amazon.com slash Prime. to find millions of items delivered fast, available in select areas, terms apply. This episode is brought to you by the Active Cash Credit Card from Wells Fargo.

That's a mouthful, but that's because it packs a lot in. Earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases with it, big or small. So whether it's buying tickets at the game or grabbing a coffee, it earns unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases. Say it with me, the Active Cash Credit Card from Wells Fargo, be a 2%er. Learn more at Wells Fargo.com forward slash active Cash, terms apply. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business.

Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum Business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas.

is. All right, Andy, we're back. You know, before we laugh, I just was going to mention Welcome to Derry, which premiered last night. Yeah, I want to know what you think. I thought a very brave pilot.

The episode was called the pilot. Andy Machete directed it. This is obviously a prequel to It, the Stephen King Blockbuster novel, and then the pair of movies that came out recently, plus there was a mini-series,

a beloved miniseries years before that. This is dialing that miniseries. Back to all. almost a standby me era for the story. And it kind of talks a little bit about, you know what? I would say it's not even really like an origin story necessarily.

Like it's kind of its own thing. And one of the things I liked about it was that it has created a reality within the television show where anything could happen. So without spoiling it for you or anybody who hasn't seen it, I would say go into this show and don't have any expectations because they will take left turns and right turns all over your body. It was really interesting. Ultimately, does it go straight then?

I can't tell. Because it turns left and then it turns right? Well, after it's run you over and your expectations are just spread out all over the highway. No, I mean, there were parts of it that I thought were like kind of stale retreads and feeling like you're starting from the beginning with a group of kids and there's like this one and there's that one and there's this one and they all have a trauma and they're trying to figure it out and there's a mystery and it turns out that the mystery is actually an unspeakable evil living in the sewers like i've done this carousel before but there was ways that they

executed it and there were parts of it that i felt like kind of had earlier stephen king gonzow like almost like maximum overdrive vibes of like okay what the fuck that's interesting yeah so i'll be curious to see where it goes um over the next couple of weeks, but I am mark me down as like intrigued. Can I give you a quick a quick this or that for it since I probably, you know,

I think people can guess this probably won't be watching it just because of the genre and the vibe. Is this more Penguin or Dune Prophecy? I got to be honest, I don't watch two prophecy. Well, I think you understand the role that example plays in the question. Penguin.

I guess then. That's positive. Okay. You want to talk about nobody wants this? I do. As always, with the Netflix shows,

it's a little complicated because you don't know how much people have watched over that opening weekend. This is the number one show on Netflix, so I am safely assuming that if you're interested in nobody wants this, you've watched a lot of it.

And also, there's not a ton to spoil about the show. It's really more about analyzing how they have adjusted it for the second season. So starting with that, Andy, what did you see in the second season? I don't know how many you've watched. That differs from the first.

So I've only watched a couple. I've watched, I think, three or four. And I have a lot of positive things to say, and I have some questionable things to say. On the positive side of the ledger, everything that I liked from season one is still there. And that is the cast. It's Adam Brody. It's Kristen Bell. It's their chemistry.

It's our buddy Tim Simons. It's Justine Lupe. It's a wonderful cast and a wonderful ensemble. What I, and also sometimes they film like three blocks from my house, which is nice to see. But also I would like one of their houses. So, you know, so it's a little bit of this. You're working through some stuff on this podcast. I'm working through some stuff. Like I was like, look at this house. I'm like, God damn, we should podcast in a house like that that one of us should own, but we can't afford. the big picture positive and if anyone who's really deep in this

read the Hollywood Reporter cover story on the show last week which is an incredibly polite version of what sounds like a pretty messy process for season one with a first time television creator and Aaron Foster and a bunch of very veteran television creators

like Steve Levittan juggling over who's controlling the show and what the show even is and actors showing up and not really even knowing what their character was meant to be doing that day

and suddenly it's a huge hit. What I felt, regardless, like, I think this would have been evident even to people who didn't read that article, which is that steady hands are at the controls this season. Jenny Connor, late of girls

and single drunk female and a bunch of other television shows and Bruce Eric Kaplan who worked with her on girls took over as I guess technically their co-show runners were there in Foster, but they are the ones whose hands are on the rudder in terms of getting

things done and making things run on time. And instantly in the season premiere, it's like, oh, okay, it's a TV comedy. It's a TV comedy that has an enormous wealth of talent. And what you do in successful TV comedies is you lean on your talent and you put them in positions to succeed. And there's a moment in the premiere that for me was everything that made me feel much more confident about the show, which is, there was a very weird, are they, will they, or won't they, with Tim's character of Sasha and Justine's character of Morgan, even though Tim is married to a character played by Jackie Tone, who's a great actress who was on Glow and a bunch of other things. And it kind of didn't make sense.

Yes, and it didn't make sense because both Esther was super written as like a kind of nightmare borderline anti-Semitic shrew, which is a theme that runs through the show, which I have to be honest about. Suddenly in the beginning of season two, Morgan, Sasha, and Esther are in a bedroom and they run right at the tension and this confusion of the first season. And it's an incredibly funny and charismatic scene played by three actors who are enjoying themselves and know how to do this. And I relaxed into the show in a way that I never did in the first season.

So I really appreciate that competence, especially for something with so many eyes on it. Mm-hmm. You know, I felt very similarly. I felt like the first season, I don't really know if I can describe what it was that I think caught so many people by surprise, but also captured their kind of hearts and minds,

which was obviously the chemistry between Brody and Bell was a huge thing. But there was also like, I don't know, I don't even know. There was, was there a little bit of like, mumble core kind of like real life in that first season where they're like hanging out on a sidewalk and it's an awkward first day. I think that I'm calling it mumblecore because I just, it felt very approachable in the first season. Also,

didn't feel like they were making it up as they went along. Maybe. And maybe that sometimes leads to a feeling of, hey, we don't know we're doing. So we're just kind of finding it as we go, you know, this season felt like everybody had a very fixed job and a very fixed role. And I think I've noticed that most with Brody in the episodes that I've watched. It's sort of weird to talk about sitcoms with this kind of

like forensic tone. But I don't know how to be like and then I like this part and like this part. But I do feel like Brody is like I have to be 75% is charming because there is got to be a chance that we as a couple might not go forward. And if I'm 100%

Adam Brody, there's nobody in the world who can resist it. Right? And, you know, he's kind of holding back a little bit. Sorry to run all over you. It's just that essentially this show is impossible. And it's a reason why we've talked about this before. You cannot really do rom-coms on TV because at a certain point, they're just together.

And if you break them up, it doesn't make sense for the characters, for the show, for the audience. You're the worst is the best L.A. example of a rom-com that found a way to broaden its appeal, deepen its story, run for a long time. But that show's whole conceit was that these people do not belong together. And yet, here we are. This show was wonderful because everyone immediately wanted them together, and now what? And so it's as compelling to me for the problem solving as it is for the romance in season two. And I don't mind that.

So your point about Adam Brody, like bringing in Alex Karpowski and then later in the season, from what I understand, Seth Rogan as like rival rabbis, great decision. lean on your rolydex, lean on Netflix, lean on the show's popularity. A character on this season is incredible. Ari and Moed from Succession, fucking awesome. Shows up and you're like,

oh great, I want to watch him. And it's a, these are problem solvers. What do you always say in the sports podcast? They're multipliers. My impression of the way that they did this second season, what happens over the course of the season with Sasha, with Morgan, with Esther,

and their obvious ability to sort of like spin the rollerdecks and bring in people for the show is that they are kind of future-proofing it so that they don't have to nearly break up the central couple every two episodes. And yes, like Joanne can still be uncomfortable with her conversion and nervous about commitment and Noah can be like, I can't do this unless she converts and I am also nervous about commitment. There can be tension. but I don't think you can kind of

you can only have like meet me at the at the Empire State building kind of moments so many times and what would the equivalent be the Capitol Records building what's the what's the other version of it? I'm going to chase after you and you're I'm going to be like it's always been you you know that kind of thing the abandoned husk of the arc light

meet me in the bathroom of the abandoned husk in the yeah so anyway I feel like the way that they're constructing the show is like this could run for several seasons because it doesn't always have to be about whether Noah and Joanne are going to get married. No, and the truth is... Jews in love. The more one Jew in love with the non-Jew.

The other thing... Yeah, it's kind of like this podcast, really, if you think about it, squint. I think people, it's an interesting thing, like game planning sitcoms in this, era because you have to think about everything in terms of like character dynamics and story intention and stakes and season versus season and where we're going. But also you don't overthink it. Like there's a moment in episode two, I think, of this season or three when

Sasha and Esther are just hanging out. And instantly it does something that didn't happen in the first season, which is you understand why these people married each other. And it's just a fun hang. and sometimes when you have high-quality actors in cute situations, like, that's enough. That's fine. And anything above that is bonus, is extra. I do think that there's one of the critiques that I have seen, and I want to get your sense about this, I think I want to give it attention, but also I think it's kind of nonsense, which is all of these people are 10 years too old to play these characters. But I think it's probably fine for that reason because they are...

I haven't seen this criticism. So, like, people in their 40s should be, like, should know better by then. And they're pretending to be people who are like 33. These characters, yes, these characters are emotionally and professionally early 30s, but they're all played by people in their mid to approaching late 40s. And I wonder if it matters because in L.A., everybody looks like they're 34. Not us, but we've only recently been forced to go on. No.

Give me a minute. I've got a lot of work done and you're going to see. But so that doesn't bother you at all? No, that's not one of the top ten things that ever jump out at me is like, oh, like, when I'm watching television, it's pretty rare unless somebody is like, I'm Jim Carrey and I'm playing a high schooler even though I'm like 35. Like it rarely am I like, Kristen Bell has no business playing someone who's single. She should be more mature than that. Yeah, it doesn't bother me. It's TV.

Let me hit you up about chair company really quick before we go. All right. This was a, the third episode was like a little bit of like, we're at like kind of CR's limit, you know? Oh, oh, really? Okay. Yeah, a little bit. Like, I laughed a couple of times.

There were some funny stuff, but I was like, what the fuck is this show about? And how many more like guys are going to be hiding in closets? It's funny, but it was like, you know how sometimes when I have experience. I'm sure you have this experience with me where you're like, oh yeah, I watch the share company and somebody's just like, isn't it the funniest thing you've ever seen in your life? And I'm like, I guess,

like, not really. And I'm sure I do that to you where I'm like, isn't Landman the most amazing thing you've ever seen? You do. It's okay. Tim Robinson, not the same thing. And I do really like Tim Robinson. I really, I think this was more about the mystery. And I was like, this mystery is not grabbing me, really.

I think, well, okay, so a couple of things. This is the second show in as many weeks that made me feel not like there could ever be another David Lynch, but that his lessons are being received. We talked last week about how much we like the lowdown, and there are just elements of it. There's just flavor sometimes of Twin Peaks in the show in a way that feels respectful. Very self-consciously, with the Agent Cooper stuff. Yeah. But it didn't feel like pastiche or homage just felt like, yeah,

I like that. And that's a flavor that I feel comfortable cooking with now. And similarly, the little guy in the closet and just the way he looks at him, which is both terrifying, and also deeply funny, reminded me that Twin Peaks was also horrifying and funny. And David Lynch found lots of it funny. You know what I mean? It's just, it's playing with things that I really respond to, but pivoting them in a different way. I also think that, I know last week I was talking about how I feel like Tim Robinson and PTA have a lot in common. That was before I even notice that S&L legend Jim Downey, who is one of the Christmas adventurers in one battle after another, he's in the office here, yeah.

Plays the dude at Ron Trasper's office who invites people to a making mistakes party. There's a lot of overlap there, but also, like, I really, I can hold, with this show, I love it so much because I'm holding two ideas very, very comfortably in my hands. One of which is, I think that this show is an incredibly insightful and disturbing investigation, into everything that's wrong with America. If I could quote Ron Trosper from this episode, when he's drinking at the bar while on hold for the fifth hour with what's the name of the company?

Like Red ball holding? Red ball management. Management solutions, yeah. So that song is playing over and over. He's been on hold for five hours. And he says, and I quote, that's the problem with the world today. People make garbage and you can't talk to anybody.

I want to scream at them. Yeah, that's it, man. That's America. I'm not saying it's not insightful or perceptive. I'm talking about the actual experience of watching it. But I'm saying that is one red ball that I'm holding in my left hand and the other red ball is that, Chris, this is the funniest fucking thing in the world to me.

And so I just have them both. And I'm like, he's cooking. He's cooking with gas right now. Can I ask you a question? Because you watched a bunch. So as part of your- I'm caught up now. I've not watched past-less.

Oh, so you would watch three. Okay, because I was wondering if maybe you were like, it gets so good. So it kind of makes the previous episode. Huh? Okay. It could all fall apart. brother. It could be a teka chair.

I'm not trying to yuck your yum. I was just kind of like, maybe it was also just like long day, a lot of stuff. And then I'm like, let me tuck into a couple of laughs from my guy Tim Robinson. I was like, dude, I'm not really in the mood for this right now. You're not in the mood

for someone say you have to go home and take a shower because I could smell you. Yeah, that was funny. It was funny. Yeah, that's funny. By the way, I liked earlier you were like, I'm sure that I've said that Landman is really good, and you were like, okay. Chris, that was nine episodes of the Watch podcast.

I'm happy to be. I'm here with you every episode of the chair company, brother. I'm watching it every week. Thank you. I appreciate that. Okay. Well, we can wrap it up there. It's great to see you.

I want to let you go get some soft broccoli or whatever you got to go eat. The broccoli doesn't have to be soft. I like soup for many meals. I also enjoy broccoli. texture-wise, we can have a whole other conversation about it. But you are right. It is dinner time, and I'm running on a few. Okay. Thanks to Andy, thanks to Kaya and Kai. We will be back on Thursday. Lowdown, slow horses, finale, and maybe some Down Cemetery Road.

I look forward to it. Hey, Mama. Thanks for making all my favorite recipes. Hi, Ma. Thanks for your unfiltered advice. Hi, Mom. Thanks for always being by the phone. Hey, Mom. Happy Mother's Day. When you ship UPS Air at the UPS store, your items arrive on time or your money back. Guaranteed at no extra cost. exclusively at the UPS store UPS store UPSR UPSRs retail locations. Visit the UPS store.com slash air shipping for full details.

Terms and conditions apply. Send your Mother's Day gifts at the UPS store and we'll get your gratitude there on time. Footing off replacing your window treatments because you think it's complicated? At blinds.com, we've spent 30 years proving it doesn't have to be. And today is your last chance to save big on spring black Friday deals. Whether you want to DIY it or have a pro to handle everything for measure to install,

we've got you. Free samples, real design experts, Zero pressure. Just help when you need it. Shop up to 45% off with minimum purchase, plus get a free professional measure during the Blinds.com's spring Black Friday last chance sale. Rules and restrictions apply.