The Watch - The 2018 Year in Review Mailbag | The Watch (Ep. 317)

Episode Date: December 27, 2018

Chris and Andy break open the mailbag to answer some listener questions about the year in pop culture, including what will take the place of ‘Game of Thrones’ after the final season (15:01), shows likely to hit a sophomore slump in 2019 (24:14), and their favorite books of the year (31:04). Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Liz Kelly and welcome to The Ringer Podcast Network. After a three-year hiatus, Bill Simmons is back with his NBA trade value rankings for the 2018 and 2019 season. You can check that out, as well as our year-in-review articles wrapping up everything 2018 on the site. Also, throughout the holidays, we will be sticking to our regular podcast schedule, so make sure to tune into your favorite shows, as usual. Happy holidays from The Ringer. I need sports to have to clear the room. Stand up and walk now. Hello, and welcome to the Wai.

My name is Andy Greenwald. I have a small but persistent cough. And joining me on the other line, it's my good friend from Philadelphia, whom I miss dearly. It's Chris Ryan. What's up, man? How are you?

I wish that people could just peek under the hood to understand just how much Kaya's helping us out today. Kaya just fed you your line. Kaya spelled seem. I haven't seen this. Is Kaya a recurring character on our Facebook group now? Yeah, she's like, she's like Walt from Lost to our Facebook group.

What I want people to know at this time of year is we are truly grateful for Kaya's help, especially because her commute is potentially litigious. Like that is not okay. She comes from so far away to do the show with us. And I also just want people to understand that this is the time of year. Chris is in Philadelphia. We tried to give him a recording device, but Chris doesn't do that. He's a studio guy.

So he's clearly the audio fidelity isn't what we wish it was. He's on the phone. I've got this cold. I can't shake it. This is the time when there is one set of footsteps in the sand and the podcast sands, and that's because Kaya is carrying the watch podcast. It's Fury Road. I have now, it is the time in every relatively new Angelino's life where I have now done the full 180, because when I arrived here, and people love this stuff, by the way, so let's just keep recording.

You know, when you arrive in Los Angeles, you arrive with the youthful spirit that you brought with you when you were a visitor here or a tourist, which is to say, Santa Monica, sure. It's just a car ride. And then what happens is over the course of your time here, the circles constrict and constrict and constrict. And now where I'm like, if you invite me over,

I'm like, it's kind of, it's Silver Lake, man. That's, I don't know. It's a Tuesday. It seems far. It's 11 minutes. It's, whoof. I mean, sometimes it can be 13. Kaya is coming from the ocean,

as far as I understand it. Kaya is from the first 20 minutes of office. Aquaman. You know what I came that I gave you a ride back to your house? Yeah. And you were like, thank you. And I dropped you off. And I said, please give me a...

It's actually worse than that, Chris, because it wasn't that you just gave me a ride. It wasn't that. It was that I... Let's not name names. Let's create a fictional construct character who will refer to as my wife. Asked if anyone, and then she specifically... suggested you due to your, you know, infamously toned physique, could come over and help me move large boxes because we had just moved. And being a good neighbor, and apparently

part-time lift driver, you just zipped over. And then as soon as you left our house, you, fellas, you got in formation. And the formation was wall to wall to walk traffic. Yeah. But that was a while ago. So that wasn't a 2018 memory, unfortunately. The important thing is you still, you've gotten over it. and it in no way is affecting our friendship. I've let it go. This is our last podcast of the year. Can you tell? Your end questions from our listeners.

And thank you so much to the listeners. You know, for maintenance on this podcast where we say community grow up out of, they had a great year as well. I just want to thank all of our listeners for sharing their information with the Royal Bank of Scotland. I think that was highly generous

because it's not just your takes, you know? It's the whole package. And you know that my Richard Madden imitation is sponsored by the Royal Bank of Scotland? It's a time of year for full disclosure. I really. This is great stuff. This is great stuff, guys.

Only on this podcast. Only on this podcast. I share all of Chris's sentiments about all our wonderful listeners. Thank you for interacting and listening and putting up with us, frankly. I hope we deserve your trust. So should we go through some of these questions? We have some other stuff that we could talk about in the margins. I suggested discussing a new film.

Chris, because now he's fully embracing the anarchic Andy role in this podcast. He's left the studio. He's left the state. He's on a phone. He's not watching movies. So he didn't want to join me in my hot take review of Vice. So that's okay. Why do you let the people know?

I mean, obviously it's not out for most Americans yet the capsule review. I don't want to do it because I want to actually have a conversation about it when people can talk about it. but the question I'll ask people as they go see this film, if they go see this film, is when you're watching it, and there are certainly things to enjoy in the movie, who is this movie for? That's a question I have for that movie.

And I don't know, you know, maybe when we talk about it, we can have a more valid, we can have a conversation about the validity of that question in general. But I just, I, if someone's in the audience watching a movie and isn't being transported and is instead wondering, who is this made for? I kind of feel like you're losing. But that's...

Well, this is kind of a deep watch reference, but maybe it's for all the people who went to the theater to see Aquaman only to find out it wasn't a real movie. I respect those people so much. By the way, here's how real a movie Aquaman is. The Grey Lady, the New York Times herself, let our old friend Wesley Morris review it.

Did you see that review? I didn't. Wesley pulling the Grantland card on New York Times. Like, Tony Scott has been reviewing movies there for so long. He's just like, he can just do the surgery in like a tight, tight, six-fifty word. you know what I mean? Wesley just, Wesley just, he just set up shop. It's really a fun read. I really enjoyed it. And I couldn't believe the Times let him do it. He refers to Amber Hurd's outfit as a

character vomiting 50 Katie Perry songs. That Twitter feed, first time in the New York Times or whatever that just like searches for words that have never appeared before is just going to be on overdrive, thanks to this review. So apparently it's a movie or it's an art installation. All right. Should we get into our questions? Yeah, absolutely. You have the list as well. Do you want to go... You take the first one here.

Okay. Should we start with a serious question? How do you feel about that? Sure, you want to... This question from... Well, there's a Twitter user. Usually I make Chris do this, where he has to fumble his way

through the Twitter handles. This is either Swisha Swart or Swishas Wart or Swishaswark. Or Swishasw-A-S-W-Art. I'm not sure. which is best. But anyway, this person asked, at the end of another tumultuous year in the U.S., do you find yourself valuing the importance of pop culture more or less

than in stable times? And stable is in quotes, which I appreciate. How do you feel about this, man? God, that's such a tough question, man. I think at the end of the year, start to make part this year, I found you're getting so much. One thing that I thought was into the idea, tick.

You know what I mean? I have not forgotten the comments you used to leave on some of my Grandland reviews. Yeah, back when Facebook was good. No, I just think that it's, and I've been sort of fascinated to read the pieces that have popped up around Roma, even, you know, a movie that, and I think what's important is to try and take that stuff and actually, like, read it or listen to it, however you're getting it, because you happen to love the film, it's possibly critiquing.

I'm kind of rambling. What do you think? Well, I'm interested in that point. I haven't read that piece. The Roma stuff kind of rubs me the wrong way. But I feel like everything is obviously heightened, and we're in a very precarious moment, not just because all cultural criticism is,

well, there's just so much of it because we live in an instant hot take Twitter society where everything immediately is carrying for the various wolves of discourse. And maybe we're among them, but we're kind of the old wolves loping in the back of the pack easily picked off by hunters. But it's also because,

we want to engage with the big issues of our time because we are frustrated and frankly scared about the way things are headed. And so, and I apologize, I don't mean to create strong men out of Roma critics who I have not engaged with, but sometimes I worry that what I feel to be, the thing about Roma, as I think it's a masterpiece,

we talked about it in a previous show, I think it's an artistic masterpiece, but what I also really appreciate and respect is that it appears to me to be a good faith engagement with the gray areas of the world. And what I mean is the movie steers directly into issues of persistent, unsolvable, potentially issues of class,

specifically related to Mexican society, but really transferable to all society. And when I say good faith, what I mean is that Quaron, who grew up with privilege, with people of mixed race serving him, basically, the movie is his attempt to grapple with that. I don't know whether it's an apology, or it's an exploration.

I'm not sure if that distinction matters. But what I appreciate is the good faith grappling with it. And what I get concerned about with a lot of cultural criticism these days is that everything needs to pass a purity test, not about the intention, but about the result. So Roma could only be a good film if it successfully articulated the long and difficult and punishing shadow of classism,

if not outright racism or sexism, in Mexican society. And I don't know if any piece of art can, and actually successfully do that. So that's a specific example that maybe answers the question. The bigger question about, am I valuing pop culture in my life?

I don't know. I think I like things a little bit less, which I'm not thrilled about. I think the things that I love, truly, truly loved, like Roma, like Atlanta, like the Pusha album, all things that end in A, apparently. We're so uplifting and transformative

and exhilarating that I just, I love them as much as I've ever loved anything. But there aren't as many highs And I can't tell if that's the era, if that's the distraction and worry of the era, or if it's the distraction and worry of the technology because I just think I have a shorter attention span. And that some of my favorite experiences this year, this is going to be the oldest, I promise this will be the oldest manist thing I say in this podcast. Well, actually, I can't guarantee that anymore. Or just reading books because it's quieter. And it's not a screen.

And despite the fact that reading a novel on my phone or watching Atlanta, on my TV or engaging with smart criticism on my laptop. Those are all disparate acts. They all involve screens, and they all come with the same attendant sort of itchiness that I'm finding a hard time navigating. So, I mean, this is obviously we're kind of going off the rails a little bit, but I'd be curious also to know for you.

Well, it definitely, as listeners of this podcast can attest, it took me out of it a little bit, my ability to engage with it at the time I had to watch things. I'll say that it, on the positive sense, side, and I've alluded to this before, I don't honestly know the degree to which I appreciated production design or sound design before I actually had to grapple with it. You know, that has increased my appreciation of things that get it right. But I guess that this experience has been so totally positive that, if anything, that has

maybe lifted up my experience as a whole because I've seen firsthand how many dedicated people work so hard and how much thought and intention goes into everything or could go into everything if possible. So I hope that it's made me more charitable. And again, I don't know, I don't think necessarily good criticism can come from a place where the critic is beginning with, well, everyone sure tried hard, you know, because I'm sure the people who are illustrating Jason Mamo's flowing hair underwater and Aquaman tried really hard and did their best. But I'd rather read Wesley make fun of the Katie Perryness of the costumes. I'm not sure, but it's made me feel a little more positive in what I'm doing,

but I don't know yet how it's affected my engagement with the world as a whole. Well, I'm sure we'll find out more next. Plausibly next in line spring. Andy, you know, I was thinking about this. You know, I think the obvious answer, young Aragorn, the character of the Vigal Morton's employee. It's just getting the right, yeah. And I'm thinking about this because I obviously been thinking about Thrones.

when Thrones came on, I didn't know what it was. Yep. In the same way that when Lost came on, I didn't know, we actually didn't have anything to go on with Lost, but even with Ferns, and then obviously you added it minted them. It minted fan. When was the first? Oh, longer.

Longer. I think the last, well, is that the last? No, that's the first one, right? That's the first one. The last one, I think, won the Oscar in 2003. Oh, okay. So we're talking like, oh. Let me apologize to all my Erragorns out there.

Fellowship of the Ring, the first film came out in 2000. 2001, two towers, 2002, Return of the King, 2003. I don't think it's going to be Lord of the Rings. And I think it's for all the reasons he said. I think that the thing that unites Game of Thrones and lost and maybe even breaking bad shows that we certainly all loved. But also in our rough sketch of culture, rough sketch version of how culture works, they all captured that similar monomania, basically, of everyone just thrilling.

They all were shocking. They all were surprising. They all did things that we didn't expect and then got us hooked on that high. That's a very, very dangerous high to chase because you can't just chase shocks and surprises because they have to be earned. And that's the harder work, both creatively and then in terms of development as well, you can't just generate them. And you can't generate them by spending a quarter of a billion dollars to make the umpteenth adaptation of something that's been beloved for half a century or more. I just don't see it, mainly because you don't spend that much money to upend what the product is, to shock the people who already love the product.

And I think that Amazon, by the way, just shout out to Rob Harvilla from The Ringer, who wrote I thought was an incredibly smart and insightful piece about the state of Amazon's prime video, Amazon's TV business for the Ringer a couple, I guess we're running this later, so a week or so ago. And the thing about that that I thought was really impressive is that it was an entirely forward-facing piece. It was purely about the consumer-reviewer experience. It had no interest in exploring the business decisions behind it, which I think made it more effective as a critique. But if you fold the business part into it, I mean, Amazon weirdly is the world's it's the world's Kmart, right? And I mean that with respect.

It's like the world's corner store. They have everything. And then they decided to be an art house cinema inside of that bodega. which was a strange choice, even though it gave us things like transparent. I think they are now trying to, again, I don't blame them for it, make entertainment on the biggest mass scale possible.

I think Jack Ryan is an example of that. And Lord of the Rings should slot into that same thing because they want people to watch. Can you think of anything that would replace Game of Thrones in the monoculture if it's not Lord of the Rings? Well, Game of Thrones spin-off with Naomi Watts. I don't know. honestly I don't I think we've we've long pointed to Game of Thrones as the last one of these things and

the last standing show and I and I don't see anything in development poised to replace it and I kind of am okay with that because I think the thing that replaces it should surprise people but look you know again who are we to say like there was a story on the ringer it's a website that I enjoy reading about fortnight and Chris I got to be honest with you I had no idea what fortnight is I just I know Bill likes to play it in that it's very popular but I don't understand what it is and the scale of its popularity is staggering. And if that's monoculture, then I don't think something on Hulu is going to reach it. Question, why don't we go to Jim Bingo just be?

What should the criteria be? I think Jim's on to something, but I think that the secondary part of his question is something we won't be able to resolve until a couple weeks or months after the final season airs, until we consider it as part of a larger experience or until people start rewatching or even watching for the first time from the beginning with this as the final chapter. Because I think he's exactly right. Like, everyone just wants to go back

and see their buddies and see crazy shit happen at the end. And that is a very different experience than the first three seasons where we're like stacking plot points and excitement and surprises like Jenga Tower and we're all just riveted. It's just a different experience at the end of something, right? Yeah, I mean, this question,

it's going to be bad that they had sort of left the blueprint behind and that they were caught a lot. It's really hard to successfully synthesize the two poles of this phenomenon for the long term. And those two poles being the blockbuster mass market outrageous. They're fucking dragons fighting each other in the sky aspect. And the, oh, how much time is are you going to spend with the theater troops of Bravo? And how do the theater troops make money? And who strikes the sets aspect of it?

We spent years talking about how we wanted the go. Well, that's probably why everyone tells us we should read the books. Because by what I understand, like, that's what the... books do, right? Like all the food and all the fiduciary roles and et cetera, et cetera. Ultimately, that's not movies. That's not TV. And it's not something that you can just tie a bow on as George Martin is finding in his word documents, right? What Benioff and Weiss are going to be doing is what they did at the end of the last season, which is taking all of that detail and all of the assumed detail that a large portion of the fan base has acquired through reading extracurricularly. And they're

going to fucking pedal to the metal and drive it straight through the wall. That's it, right? They're going to end it all. Yeah. So it's going to satisfy the first half of that equation much more than it's going to satisfy the second half of the equation, which is why I think that, you know, I don't know, okay, this is not why, but it is, it suggests a version of this where George Martin, who has stepped back considerably from his role in this TV show, will, I don't know if he's going to have the last laugh, but he will be able to, should he choose to finish the books, give the people, people who are dissatisfied with the scale of the TV show, the more detailed, considered slow-ending that maybe they actually want.

What new 2018 shows? Whoa, that's a good question. I got two off the top of my head from my own top four this year, and then I'm very curious what you've got. I think that Succession is going to have a better season two than season one, because it is a show that had enormous momentum and got better and better as the season went on, which is a wonderful and rare thing. And I have to believe that they're hitting season two with the swagger and confidence of people who really understand their characters and the type of stories they want to

tell and how to do it. And also the baked in goodwill of all the people who've come aboard the show who will be excited to see all the secondary and tertiary characters again. I have no, take no joy in saying this, but I have real concern about killing Eve season two. Again, for reasons that we've talked about on the pod but are worth repeating. That was a show that felt like a dare and succeeded on a very difficult level of execution, pun intended. And once it's, and actually did the reverse succession where I think it got a little bit weaker as the season went on. And this will be a season, second seasons are always hard. This will be a season where they don't really know probably how many seasons they're going to go. So without the thread of like they're really just going to catch

Villanelle and that'll be the end of it looming over the season, how can they, replace that tension with something equally exciting, and I'm not sure how they could. Yeah, I sure your... I would say this about succession. You'll say anything about succession, as Sam Esmail knows. There may not be a bigger succession fan than me. I hope they don't... Right.

Yeah, you don't want that hard reset. I agree with you. Anything that you feel particularly optimistic about? Are we in line for Bodyguard Season 2, Chris? Yeah, I don't think so. I mean, I think that they probably really want to make a season two. but I don't know. I mean, what else could you want from the world?

What? Oh, my God. What a spoiler. What a spoiler. We should have Kai hit the spoiler siren. Yeah, my understanding of that show is it's purely a relationship drama. It's just about a guy trying to get back together with his best gal. That's all it's about.

It's about the nuances. Can I answer this question about, from Trust the Pasta's, great handle. where did Maisel settle in my top ten? Because, you know, I did something that I usually don't do. And I put Mrs. Maisel in my top ten for this year, sight unseen, based on the strength of the first season. And guys, I regret it. Man.

I regret it. I love this show. But this is a, it is a difficult second season in a lot of ways. I'm not saying it's out of the top ten entirely, but it definitely tumbled to the back end of it, mainly because it's just not, you know, I think we talked about it a little bit when we had Jason Manzoukis on the show.

It felt like it had a very steady hand in the first season, and this season felt like all the excesses, honestly, of Gilmore Girls, a show that I also respected a lot and enjoyed sometimes, but sometimes it was just too much for me. It was just like, you know that feeling? Like if you have a coffee too late in the day or a tea and you drink it real fast and you just you're not feeling great.

It's all going a little too fast and it's maybe 5 p.m. and the sun's going down. That's kind of the feeling some episodes of season two have given me about the show where it's just let's, it goes to Paris and to follow the parents who we barely know yet. You know, it's just, is she pursuing a career or is she not pursuing a career? It's so all over the place. And again, I don't think you can separate the strands of the show. If you pulled out some of the DNA that makes it do crazy things, then it's not a spectacular and special show, which it is. But just in terms of like a artful and excellent season, it is less of the first and not the second.

So it wouldn't have made your top ten? No, I'm trying to think what I would have replaced it with. And, you know, I still like it and have, and like parts of it all told better than I'm trying to think what was just scraping it, like collateral or end of the fucking world. people have asked about our feelings about the Deuce Season 2. I feel like my feeling about the Deuce Season 2 is I still haven't finished it, which speaks to my, I enjoy it, but I couldn't quite get back into it to the degree that I hoped, and I probably will, and maybe that'll crash the top 10. But Maisel's still in it.

But I think I had it as a placeholder at 5, and I think it's probably more like 9 or 10. Okay. It's so funny because I obviously, I wasn't like lukewarm on the first season. I like the first season a lot, but. I don't want to, by the way, I am just gobsmacked and slightly entertained by the Maisel backlash. I don't want to be a member of that club at all. I think this show is very special and very entertaining and still very promising. You're just saying it might not be at the reach the heights of the first season.

I put it that high unseen because I loved that first season so much that I think I underrated it. And I wanted to reflect that in the face of, you know, a listener and fan and friend who is, you know, who is very, very strong in his opinions when he comes on our show. And so I wanted to make sure that I dug my heels in, only to be disarmed by the fact that Sam actually likes Maisel, so I did not know. So I was weak, everyone, and I'm trying to be stronger in the new year.

We'll come back and answer some more of your question. Today's episode of the watch is brought to you by Dell. The Dell XPS 13 with an 8th-gen Intel Core I-7 processor is the laptop for people who never say no to one more episode. With lifelike color, brilliant sound clarity, and smooth streaming, Dell Cinema Technology makes the XPS 13 the perfect laptop for people who watch things on their laptop. Call 800 Buy Dell to learn more,

or visit Dell.com slash XPS13, sponsored by Dell and Intel. And we're back. We got more of your questions. We're doing this end of the year mailbag that we love doing so much. Chris, there are two book questions on here, and I know people love the book talk, and I know that we owe them a new selection in our double-down book club. Thank you to everyone who read Dog Soldiers, even though we didn't talk about it. That book takes a turn, man.

It gets dark. There's a quality of book that Chris and I get really hyped about, and we'll just be texting each other lines from and get very excited. And then like three quarters in, the discourse goes silent because stuff happens that we were like, oh gosh, okay. And dog soldiers One of those It was like

It was a lot Two questions here I want to get to quickly One I think we can We can just say right away Which is one from Stova 1 2P which is

One TP Which is any books from this year That would make a good gift To a Pelicanos fan I feel like we should shout out again Friend of the Pod Patrick Hoffman's book Every Man a Menace

Absolutely Which was That's quite a stocking stuffer Yeah But particularly I think people who have enjoyed Pelacanos his novels. It is similar in some ways in terms of the granular detail and lived in experience

of the characters, but he finds a way to play with structure that is truly unsettling and surprising and pretty incredible. Yeah, that menace is everything I ever wanted from a crime novel. The other question I wanted to get to is from Matt Linton, asking what our favorite books of the year were, and what books are most excited for 2019. I am definitely going to forget things when you ask that question. Someone just asked about Pelicanos. I'm really enjoying the new Pelicanos book, The Man Who Went Uptown.

I am currently having a really good time, although I do have some questions, with the new Heruki Murakami novel, one of my favorite writers, if not my favorite writer of all time, his new book, Killing Commendatorre, is really worth sinking into. I'm like 400 pages in of 700.

But he is definitely one of those great artists who, as he's gotten older, spends proportionately more time discussing the bodies of, like, just pubescent young girls. And I'm like, this is, we don't need this content, Haruki, you know, and especially in this moment.

But I don't speak Japanese, so I can't communicate that to him, but it is a little unfortunate. A writer I wanted to shout out, and Chris, I wanted to shout this out to you, and I hadn't done it yet. So this seems like the perfect opportunity. A writer named Alan Parks,

who wrote his first novel this year, it's called Bloody January, and it is a dark crime book set in Glasgow, Scotland in the 70s. And it's really good. And it's so clearly the beginning of a new series with a detective named Harry McCoy. His new book in the Harry McCoy series, February's son is coming out, and you guessed it, February of this year. But this dude used to work, Alan Parks used to work in the music industry like so many of us.

I think he designed album covers for people. And this is just one of those books where you just put your boots on and you go for a long slog through like a really morally, filthy, if not just outright filthy city. There's a lot of drinking. There's a lot of regret. There's a lot of bad decision making. And it's done with a narrator that you really can enjoy living with. It's truly a great mystery novel for people looking for one.

And I worry that it just sort of went between the cracks because there's so many good mystery books. But shout out to Alan Parks. Bloody January is worth the read. That's great. I can't wait to check that one out. Mine is the debut novel by Prison. If I can just also shout out, because a couple of people asked about the book that I was reading on the flight back to Philly. And it is probably the best thing I read this year and a man who is writing up.

Ooh, can I just do two more quickly? Yeah, sure. New book by a great Mexican writer called Martine Solaris called Don't Send Flowers. It is a just like dazzling and horrific and weirdly sometimes funny investigation of crime and sort of the state of things in the Gulf states. of Mexico. It's set in a city called La Eternidad, the eternity, and like a grizzled cop, ex-cop, Carlos Trevino, was called in to help solve the kidnapping of a local businessman's daughter. And it is a trip through Mexico that often feels too horrific to be real, but sometimes too real to be fantasy. And for a flip side of that, if people like nonfiction, there's an

incredible memoir that was published this year called The Line Becomes a River by Francisco Contu. He's a Mexican-American writer and a scholar who, in order to better understand the border after growing up near it and studying it in graduate school became a border patrol agent for a few years and deals with his own. It's very lyrical memoir and it's about the lived and experience of the border by someone who is hates what he is doing quite honestly, but feels better him than others doing it. And it was controversial on both sides, which I think makes it worthy of attention. and it's actually the writing is good enough to make it worthy of your attention as well. There's a question here about next year shows

and specifically about which show will have a better season from Dr. Ewent or Drey Went. Drey went? This is probably more likely than Dr. Ewent. I'm really bad at this part of the job. Which will have a better season next year, True Detective or Mind Hunter? And these are, you know, you're a little bit already on the record for True Detective. but I'm curious if you could articulate your hopes and dreams for both shows. I think it's Mind Hunter directing season.

Are not so much. I'm with you, obviously, and excited about Mind Hunter, very excited about Mind Hunter. Here's a question. I don't even know if you have an answer prepared for it or if you even care, but it's relevant, and by the time this podcast airs, it may have been answered. But Brian Young wants to know who we would pick to host the Oscars. And if you need a second to think about it, I've got some thoughts. I like just straight up, like, the first words that came to my mind were Charles Dance.

Just frowning and disappointed with everyone for their decision-making and for the choices. Exactly. Hello. Plebians. He's just so over it. I do like that. I have three stages of picking. One would be like, I guess I don't care. It doesn't matter. They don't necessarily need a host. But I do like good hosts to the Oscars. I thought Jimmy Kimmel has done a great job the last few years. I think that the Internet suggested, and I agree with Maya Rudolph and Tiffany Haddish, because they were incredible together when they presented, and they would obviously bring a very different energy,

but they would be very entertaining and fun. And then the other choice would be, why not Trevor Noah? If we're looking for people who successfully hosts things, which I think is a probably good place to start, he's been doing a really good job on The Daily Show pretty much under the radar since the initial reaction to him died down. I think he's not only good at hosting the Daily Show, I just think he's an incredibly skillful,

um, intuitive performer who just gets better at every, he just takes challenges and pulls them off and gets better as he goes. And I think he would, on some level, understand what the job was and pull it off with some level of a plum. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, you know,

would you believe I haven't even had coffee today? This is purely cold medicine. And it's great stuff. It's, uh, it's called PCP. How many more do we got? Gabriel Sabalas says, and potential awards theater bait, pressure studios to greenlight more

$15 to $25 million dramas, and will continue success of the streaming services. That is a lovely and optimistic question, Gabriel. Yeah, I actually think that there will be the kind of ignores now. I think that's all very,

very spot on and insightful. I'm hoping that big studios get back in the bird box business, because look, guys, I know nothing about this movie, but if there's a world where major film studios no longer want to green light films where major box office stars are blind, I don't want to live in this world anymore.

Come on, come on. That is a hallmark of award season. And all I know about Birdbox from the billboard that's on sunset right now across the street from Netflix headquarters that I pass on the way here to the studio, is that Sandra Bullock is blind? She won an Oscar.

Let her make her blind movie. I don't understand why Netflix. I want to use a meme of, I want to start using it as a meme, the picture of her with the blindfold sitting in a canoe. I'm there. I'm there for your meme creation. I think it's very sweet, if not a little naive to think that the studios will look at Roma and think that they want any piece of it, honestly. I think they're very grateful on some level that someone else had to foot the bill and potentially lose money for it. And I think Roma is a best case example because Quarron is an established, commercial director, and if you're in business with him, chances are this next film might be something that could make a lot more money than Roma. This is boom times again for independent film, but not in movie theaters. You know, like all the people who were responsible for the 90s that get in the band back together, you know, and making, churning out content all of a sudden for Netflix and Amazon and places that will greenlight it.

It's just a different thing. The businesses are so deeply different. Like, I'm very happy that people like Tamara Jenkins, who made private life this year and Nicole Hall of Center, who made the land of steady habits. There was a moment when great filmmakers like them would have trouble getting fine. I'm sure they still have trouble getting financing, but getting financing because their movies would have to be released in theaters and go through that whole thing. It seems like that middle ground of filmmakers can make movies now because Netflix or Amazon will pay them. pay for them because that is a nice, you can sort of slide it right into the type of content they make and they can get stars which look good for them. That's a good thing, but I just don't think it has

anything to do with the way things used to be in terms of what movies are and what they, and where we're going to see them. Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, I think that the answer is that would be ideal. Yeah, I mean, that would be ideal, but I don't think that's been figured out yet. I have one I want to ask you. This is for, ready? Is this coming at me hot, unprepared? What's the best meal or restaurant? you went to in 2018. Oh my God, I'm not ready. Boy, okay, I'm going to go off the top of my head,

remembering very little. You didn't come to my house for Pollo-Mohado, so I won't be offended if you don't say that. No, because as far as I understand, you're still perfecting the recipe. You know, there's a level of liquidity that you're still chasing. Yeah.

I had two, I mean, I think I had a lot of great meals this year, but the two that immediately jump into mind, and I'm going to do one for both, one for each coast. There's a restaurant that opened in near my old neighborhood in Brooklyn since I left, called Claro, and it's in Gowanus, basically, just below park slope. And it is a Wahakian restaurant. And when I was back in the city, and my wife had a big birthday party there with friends, it was truly exceptional, maybe the best Mexican meal I've had outside of Mexico,

rivaling anything I've eaten in Mexico, with just an excitement. of flavors and preparations and also a truly kind and friendly space and wildly good mescal which is a testament to how good the food was that I remember it despite the almost

wet chicken level of mescal that was consumed that night. The other one, I just want to give a shout out to a restaurant that's gotten some love on the Ringer podcast network recently which is a restaurant downtown L.A. called Shibumi which is a style of Japanese cuisine that is really not found often in this country.

It's called capo cuisine. It's sort of in between, like, the highest Kaisiki and, like, Izekiah, just pub fair. Go there, have your mind blown at what's possible with just, like, grilled meats, cured seafood and vegetables. It's really a special place. Also, great, great drinks there as well. Those are my two favorite restaurants that I can think of off the top of my head this year. What about you? What about you?

You're a roving gourmand these days. You've been in more cities than I have even this year. Yeah, you know, I mean, it's a really simple Italian meal. I think it would be the pizza at the way. Oh, yeah. You mentioned that once before on the podcast. That's very exciting. Yeah, it was just, sometimes you're just like, if you eat, sometimes pizza can be like the,

platonic ideal of food. You don't need me to go house of carbs. That's good stuff. We did well with that question without any preparation. I'm proud of us. How should we end this? What do we got here that you want to finish with? What has the belt?

Like, what show? Yeah. Movies or TV. Oh, I saw that question. I thought I meant like, oh, see, okay, so Kobe Jones. Oh, what has the belt movies or TV? All right, let me do that again. No, but I like the way we're unsure.

So Kobe Jones asked a question that we're going to end on, and the question as written is who currently has the belt, movies or TV? And I think Chris's first read on this was which movies or TV shows have the belt as we end 2018. I think he's asking which is better, which is dominating in a way. And it's really tough because what I think happened this year, if not, you know, it was already happening previous years, TV remains, has flooded the zone and our brains and still dominates conversation in a almost like you ask how you are, you ask someone, you say someone nice to see you, how are you, maybe talk about the weather. If you're in L.A., you talk about how long it took to get to wherever you're going, Shastakaya's commute. and then you're like, oh, have you watched anything good lately?

And it just feels pro forma, you know? Like, oh, have you seen that? Yeah, I saw that. Whereas movies are winning the event wars, meaning the way Black Panther took over the world and dominated people's excitement. Starsborn took over, certainly the ringer and the internet in general.

Or even the way Roma is so far in a way the best cultural experience I've had this season. It depends how you want to rank it. Movies this year, I think, hit bigger and hit harder, but TV never stopped hitting.

This year, I'd say we've finished like 60, maybe 70. The best thing you've done all year, like, was right now. Yeah, and weirdly, it goes all the way, it's like it's come full circle, because TV was always just kind of omnipresent. It just never made, it made very few swings at quality. I don't think we were, I think in the,

in the 60s, in the 70s, in the 80s, and even upwards through half of the 90s, I don't think I need to do what movies do. But now they are, and movie stars and movie talent are looking to TV to do it, too, certainly for their careers. And I'll say this as a consumer and as someone now on the other side making it,

it's a very contradictory moment because everything is now being made to blow up as big as possible, to make the biggest possible splash at a time when it feels almost, impossible to do that, to cut through. You know, and I don't know whether that's due to the just the deluge of content or the way things are just bingeable, you know, I think by all, and again, he's our friend, but we don't have any inside knowledge on this. By all cultural barometers,

I think Homecoming was a huge success on Amazon for Sam. I mean, it's Julia Roberts on TV, and we liked it, and a lot, a lot of people liked it and seemed to talk about it. But how do you measure its success and its impact on the culture. I don't know. I assume Amazon has its own internal metrics, but... I'm sure they do. Yeah, and they both get award nominations, too. Right, but I think everybody's attention for a couple of weeks.

It doesn't stick, you know? Right. It's interesting. I mean, it's an interesting time for us to be talking about it and be confused by it, and we should probably end there. And I want to say that it's been another great year. I'm extremely grateful for three things above all else. I'm extremely grateful for the beach scene in Roma. I'm extremely grateful for Brian Tyree Henry's face at the end of the woods episode,

and I'm extremely grateful for my friendship and creative partnership with you, buddy. This is always... Oh, man, thank you so much. This is so fun. Even though you're probably making the same face Brian Tyree Henry makes at the end of the woods right now. But thankfully, we're not on video right now to capture it. This is the most fun thing I get to do. I'm so glad I get to do it.

And thanks to you, thanks to all the listeners, thanks to Kaya. Thanks to the Ringer podcast network. Is anybody else? Shout out to Redondo Beach and wet chicken. And thank you, as always, to Christine Beranski for the light you provide and the path that you plays for us. Have a great, happy New Year. Happy New Year!