The Watch - The 2020 Oscars and ‘The Outsider’ Episode 6 | The Watch

Episode Date: February 10, 2020

The 2020 Academy Awards deliver a fun, messy, and ultimately feel-good telecast (0:41). Plus: Episode 6 of ‘The Outsider’ showcases everything that makes the show so captivating (41:15). Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at the ringer.com and joining me in the studio with a whole new appreciation for milk. It's Andy Greenwald. Wow. I learned so much last night. What a night. What a night for Hollywood.

It was Hollywood's biggest night. Hey, Greenwald, what's up, man? Happy Monday. Great to see you. Isaac Lee is here with us today. It's the day after the Oscars. We're going to be talking about the Oscars. The Oscars broadcast, the winners, the losers.

There's no losers. No, but there's a winner. The Hollywood air is thick with the aroma of Sochu. Given the way Greenwald is dressed today, I wish people could see. You'd think he was morning in 1917, not winning. It's more than I've just been in like in a duck blind. What if we became like, What if we were like super morbid about 1917 now winning?

Like, yeah, you know, it's great for parasite, but... When are we going to properly venerate England's greatest generation in film? So we're going to talk a little bit about the Oscars or a lot about the Oscars, and then we'll talk about last night's episode of The Outsider. What is it called? Was that the one about Yiddish Tears? Yiddish vampire, I believe. The tear drinker was a couple weeks ago.

It's literally the one about the Yiddish vampire. Our thing about... Is that a friend's joke? Rich... Our guy, Richie Price, not known for the lulls. You know what I mean? Yeah.

But he's sneaking in some... There's some funny shit in Richard Price's work. Yeah, but that's not what he's known for. You know, and so I think he's sneaking some of his best work into the episode titles. He did a little re-ray work on Caddyshack. Not sure if you know that. Caddyshack, too? Do you remember there was a Caddyshack, too?

I do. Is that Rodney Dangerfield? I think at some point, Jonathan Silverman was in that. At some point, Jonathan Silverman was in it, but then he ducked out. I was going to say at some point, I think I had, like, I thought Caddyshack too was Caddyshack. Like, you know, because when you're young, you don't know. Oh, yeah. And they just show Caddyshack too.

You're like, oh, this is like, is there a first Caddyshack? I mean, I caped up for Manichin, too. Yeah. Continuing adventures of Michot-Taylor. Yeah, is that another Silverman banger? I'm just saying. Is it? It might be.

And then Silverman and McCarthy were together in Weekend at Bernies, right? Oh, because, oh, I think because you're saying, because Silverman is the first Manichon and was always slipped in later. You know, Charlie Schladder fits into this, too. Yeah, because he's the second Ferris Bueller. Right. He's the TV's Ferris Bueller. Right.

Wow. This is good stuff. This is the best podcast of 1991. Actually, I feel like we've always been the best podcast from 1991. We really have. Let's talk a little bit about the 2020 Oscars. Obviously, the big picture went live last night. You guys can check that out.

They really got into it. I haven't listened to that yet, but I hope half of that podcast is Sean just luxuriating in the fact that the Oscars finally took his note and had people introducing people to introduce other people. And then in the middle of it, they were like, you know, people love most about movies. Songs. Yeah. I want to talk about that.

It's great. They did a great job breaking down just how historic last night was for a lot of different reasons. And then Ring or Dish also did the kind of more of the pop culture or gossip, the red carpet looks to the, you know, the funny. connections between celebrities in there. So you should listen to Ring her Dish and Big Picture, but you can also listen to the watch because you're listening to it already if you've gotten this far. Let's talk about the broadcast a little bit before we get into Parasite and everything

else. What a huge night for Parasite. And what a huge night for music. Finally. It was music's biggest night. What the fuck? So I was watching it last night. And I was just, you know, at first you're just kind of like cool.

Obviously opening with a music number. That's not sure. Not that weird. And then, I think midway through, I realized that they were doing a full presentation performance of each best song nominee. Which they, which is traditional. But they were not doing the usual someone walks out and says two men running across war-torn Belgium or France. Is that Ford versus Ferrari? Yes.

Haven't seen it. No, it's 1917. I know. It's right. You got me. They usually do like an era. and then they show a montage from the best picture films. They did not do that.

No. They didn't celebrate the best pictures of the year throughout the biggest night in movies. Yet they celebrated Elton John and Randy Newman and Edina Mansell and Chrissy Metz and all of it. Eminem who wasn't nominated for anything and was like a make-good on something that happened in 2002 or three. There were a lot of weird choices like that. I do think, and shout-outs to our fearless leader, Bill Simmons here, I do think the Oscars

or the Academy need a czar of common sense. because they always try to mess with the things that are working just fine, like announcing the nominees and showing a short clip of their work before giving them the trophy. And this year's innovation was we're going to edit. And they were very well edited. I thought quite cleverly edited, a montage of all the performances flowing into each other

to create some sort of visual cinematic sense of whatever. There's like a kind of dialogue going on in those, yeah. And then they come out of it. And then they're like, the nominees are, it's like, we know. We know that is an extra four or five minutes every time. that you could have used. So I guess maybe the thinking was we don't need to show montages or clips from the movies because we're showing them in the actor things.

But they also did a montage of just cool songs and movies from across the decades. Well, that's the stuff that I always rail against, but Sean is all the way out there on the hill that he has chosen to die on, which maybe the same hill as Cold Mountain. No, dude, I love montages. He loves montages about things that movies do. Yeah, why not? That's nonsense. What other night are we spent?

doing that, though. What other night are we spending watching people give trophies to the greatest actors? Like, it's the Oscars. Anyway, let's take it one step back. So, yes, the opening. I love Janelle Monet. First of all, I love her. Second, great performance, great energy, a lot of fun.

Third, great, great, great PR for Esmail Corp. It's considering Janelle Monet is starring in season two of Homecoming. Oh, that's true, yeah. Great look for them. But? I kind of just want to throw something out here. When the dancing jokers came out, I was like, Jonas Araface, are we sure about this? Because I feel like...

There was a lot of people on stage. There were a lot of characters or dancers representing movies that were not at all represented in the nominees. Yes, which I kind of can get behind. Did they have dancing popes for the two popes? They didn't because that movie was represented. Yeah. They had Dolomites. That's right.

They had midsummerses. They had uses, you know, from the movie Us. It wasn't nominated. My goal today is to get you way out on a pier talking about stuff you haven't seen. Oh, I'm so golden today. You have no idea how confident I am. Because you think now all you have to do is watch one movie a year. I nailed it.

I took a look at the great buffet of discourse and culture. And I was like, no, I know what I want. That's all I want. Parasite. That's all I want. I want Ramdon. I want a big bowl. And I just slurped it all up.

And I was full. I never need to watch any other movies from 2019. So, eat Hollywood. Are you seriously not going to watch any of those other movies ever? I'll watch Little Women. That's it? You're not going to watch once upon a time in Hollywood. You're not going to finish, as Steve Martin said, season one,

or Chris Rock said, season one of Irishmen. I'll probably get back to it, yeah. Yeah. No, I do want to see those movies. Yeah. But the one movie you watched, one fucking everything. Yeah. Which is maddening.

Last night was my greatest night. So, anyway, we're just talking about the music montage. It was just like, are we sure? Because I think the thing that has been pursuing the Ahab to the Oscars White Whale, I'm doing this analogy backwards, is Rob Lo singing and dancing with Snow White in the opening of the 1987 Oscars, right? So anything that is remotely like that, I'm like, you just got to watch that. Right. And so Dancing Jokers was on the Snow White Scale.

That was close. And then, you know, and other people pointed this out, Steve Martin and Chris Rock are delightful. They were funny. I enjoyed their presence. I enjoyed their amiable, loose hand on the steering wheel. But you know what they were? Hosting. Yeah.

So you didn't need both. Yeah. It's just bizarre. This non-hosting thing. Like maybe this was an example of the Academy, being like, you say that they're always not worth it. So here you go. Okay, we've learned our lesson.

Give us a host. Bring a host back. So you're pro host? A hundred million percent pro host. Because I'm watching this, again, as a non-synophile, I am watching this partially as a broadcast experience and as a show. And I like to know that someone... So I'm curious, when guys like George McKay show up...

Yeah. And they're like, I'm George McKay and I'm here to introduce the next person who's going to present an award. I had no idea who that was. Yeah, right. First of all, he looked precarious in the balcony. Yes. I thought he was going to tumble backwards. Yeah, you ever get that feeling when you go to like...

I can't talk about it. Like, City Field or Dodger Stadium and you're like, I could fall into Jack Peterson's arms right now? It's the Berkeley Center because they started building these things. They wanted a smaller footprint. Yeah, they go straight up. And they go straight up. And we went, I think, with Sean Fantasy, I think, to a Nets game. I don't remember those Nets Sixers a couple years ago.

And I experienced deep vertigo. Yeah. It is very... It's also completely dark. in Berkeley Center. Yes. Yeah. It's really weird because they do theater lighting.

So you're just like, I'm in the dark, very high up above Spencer Dinwiddie. And it's either Spencer Dinwiddie or it's Caucasian Chalk Circle being performed. Theater in the Round, Black Box. Unclear. Similar experience. Anyway, let me redraw my own Caucasian Chalk Circle to discuss the Oscars. Yeah, so there's a dude in the balcony who I've never heard of. And I thought maybe he was like an Axis Hollywood host.

Yes. Or The Bachelor? Yes. I don't know. Yeah, no, he's in 1917. Great. Yeah. But then I figured that out because I realized that he was a blandly handsome British guy I've never seen before.

So I assume that he was running out of the trenches at some point. And then you put on his costume from that movie today and came to work. As a tribute to my new favorite actor. And on the way here, actually, to get to the studio on time, I toss my keys to Timothy Shalamee so he could park my car in time. What a windbreaker for that guy. I mean, that was a choice. So, yeah, I'm pro host.

I'm 100% pro host, and it was strange to bring out two people who have hosted before and could have done it again to give us the good host vibes as opposed to making an argument of why we don't need one, which fell apart. Here's my case, host, no host. If you want a hyper-efficient Oscars, which they don't do anyway, but if you wanted to imagine an Oscars that came in at two and a half hours or two hours even, don't have a host, just get right into the awards, do it. Because there was a point last night when they were really burning through those first few major categories. And you're like, this is great. This is all. I feel like it's really moving. And then it obviously slows down a lot.

And I don't mind it slowing down for Kraft and Below the Line Awards and for Doc Short and an animated short. And those are always actually some of my favorite moments because you never know. And not only do you get to see people who are actually making these movies get awarded. But it really shows the sense of community that exists both out in Los Angeles, but in the wide. world of the film community. The thing I object to is bending over backwards for like this sixth shot of Billy Islish and then a three-person introduction to get to Eminem and you're just like, why are we, why are we doing lose yourself in 2020?

This is just obscene kind of. Also, Beanie Felton being like, here's my hero, TV's Mindy Kaling. It's just bizarre. It was such a fascinating Oscars because this was in many ways the one that, we've been waiting for. And I don't mean, I mean, literally we in the sense that you and I have been talking about or covering in some fashion, whether we did an after show or whether we've been podcasting about it, you know, for eight years now.

Much more casually than big picture, obviously. Oh, yes. But we did rent tuxitos a few years ago. Yes, they were rented for us. So basically we're insiders. And this was the one. Wait, didn't we do a live show after La Lala Land and Moonlight and you had left or something like that?

No. Was that, were you there for that? Yes. Did somebody leave for that? And then like, it was like, oh my God, should I come back? I don't remember. I don't remember. You were there, though.

I'm committed to covering film from all angles, mostly the outside angle. This is what we wanted. This was the Oscars that people sort of dreamed about, the one where people feel really good about the outcome. We're genuine moments of not just of excitement and happiness. and surprise for new winners being anointed, because that's something that people really like. There was such a feeling of, as you said, a film community. You know, I mean, Fong's speeches were just so genuine and moving and wonderful,

but not just for what they were and what they said about him, but for the way he connected the dots, talking about, I mean, obviously the headline moment of the whole evening was when he said the quote that motivated him and said that it was a Scorsese quote, and Scorsese's there beaming, because Scorsese loves his movies too, and he loves this idea.

community. So it gave us everything that people actually want from an Oscar show. But because you can never count on that, it was built to be this same lumbering kind of hybrid that can't count on anything that can't count on delivering the moments it needs to deliver. So it lards it with stuff that it hopes other people might want. If you had stripped away all the extra stuff that they put in, you would have had, yes, you would have had the lean show people talk about you, but you also would have the engaging, exciting, I mean, it's weird to say word like fulfilling, but people felt really like, I think people felt joy watching this show. Whether it was from Laura Dern's speech after winning for a long time,

seeing a movie star like Brad Pitt finally get his first acting Oscar. It hit all the notes. Taking Silo Sivan and watching Joaquin Phoenix talk. We can come back to that. But it hit all those notes and then Billy Elish and Eminem and Elton John and everyone else also hit many notes. Yes, they did. There was a moment I saw on Twitter

I think it was at the Parasite Party where the director of Portrait of a Lady on Fire Celine Shiama went up to director Bong and she said I'm going to paraphrase but it was like you did it and this changes everything and it's everything from it going from foreign language film to international feature

and the idea that there is more of a global there should not be this as as Bong has said this one inch line at the bottom of the film that is somehow a wall that people can't see over in terms of understanding. And also that there is this international community of film and these movies are as important as anything you see in your multiplex and that it doesn't, it's not that hard to go find them.

And especially in the case of Parasite, it's been a wonderful, it's been so wonderful to see that movie become kind of a phenomenon. And I've seen it too with like all these people who I work with who I think are being introduced to cinema through Parasite, which is really cool. They're like, I want to go check out more of his movies. I want to check out other movies like it. I want to find out what movies I haven't been seeing because, you know, this is a gateway movie.

This is going to be a gateway movie for a lot of people. Also, the world is so much smaller now. We have access to everything. You don't have to do what we learned to do in high school, which is like go past the first few racks at the TLA video store in Center City, Philadelphia, to discover something and then feel as proud but protective of it as we would have. have a seven-inch that we bought at repo records. Like, this is a world that is interconnected, and Quinn Tarantino has supported Parasite and supported Bong's films and movies in his career.

And of course, he's influenced by Scorsese because he has access to those movies and vice versa. And, you know, Chloe Zhao, who did The Rider a few years ago, born in Beijing, is making a Marvel movie. There is a flip side to the thing that we often talk about, which is that, you know, Oh, Star Wars isn't going to do well long term because it doesn't play well in China. The flip side of it is is that all movies are global now. And all movies, and instead of only thinking about that in cynical terms, like because a Chinese company invested a lot into Transformers, then it has to be very positive about the regime.

Whatever, there's a flip side to it. Yes. It means that all movies are going everywhere all the time and talking to each other in a way that feels instantly exciting. Yeah. And it opens, you know, it opens the aperture super wide. And it speaks really, it makes me enthusiastic, honest. I mean, this is why I think when you see people flipping out in videos that they posted on Twitter after the awards were announced, I don't think people are overreacting.

It's not for me to say it, first of all. But I feel that, I feel a version of that same thrill. Also, it's not just a, it's not an empty feel-good movie. You know, like, those movies like that have won in the past where it's like, oh, man, that's so great that we got the, like, whatever. I think before it obviously became like completely toxic, the campaign and the idea of Green Book was, you know, there's just like a harmony, even back in the Civil Rights era,

and it's just like, if we could just connect with each other in this way and see past our differences, isn't that great? And that was the idea behind it. I got to be honest, I didn't even see Green Book. You know what I mean? And everything that happened with Green Book happened.

Do you know if I saw it? Did you see Green Book? I just figured you would know. The thing about Parasite is that, it was rewarded for actually capturing a moment in this world right now. I was absolutely. Where does that happen? I know I wasn't alone with it.

I assumed that all the feel good parts were over and 1917 would win. And again, I haven't seen it. So I am actually pure in this argument. I'm not saying it's good or bad. Maybe it's a masterpiece. But I assumed 1917 would win because it is a backwards looking movie. Yes. Not in a pejorative sense.

It is literally a period piece. It is about something that already happened. And the one thing that you can generally count on the Oscars to do is reward Hollywood's own sense of itself and its own sense of place and a vision of the world the way it used to be. It's a safer, safer bet. It's why acting awards generally go to people doing imitations of other actors or famous people. Because again, it's pointing the camera backwards in a way that feels easy to digest, more universal, just safer in so many ways. And there were nine nominees this year. How many did I see?

just Udo. But are any of the other nominees about 2019 or 2020? Literally, are they about it? No, I mean, you can make weeks that like there's parts of little women that are a, that reflect.

Yeah, absolutely. You know, and, you know, the labor struggle is going on and Irishmen have residents today and everybody. And the Irishman is... Anyone could get divorced, baby. That's true. You know what I mean? That might be the only other one.

But the Irishman in particular, like, that is of course is about right now, because it is about the Barnes-Squise and its collaborators and looking backwards and age. And it's, you know, the first few episodes that I saw were magnificent. But my point being, Parasite is so electrically about right now. Yes. And about class and culture and tension and technology. And it's radical that it won for that reason.

I mean, you guys are, I mean, not just Green Book, like the artist won best picture. Yeah. A silent film. about a French actor. Like that won best picture. Right. The academy is usually about moral victories. It's about Martin Scorsese winning for the departed after not winning for so many

masterpieces that came before it. It's about Hurt Locker beating Avatar, you know, even though I don't really know if Hurt Locker has gone, has been canonized since then. No, but that actually might be the, is that the last example? Hurt Locker and Moonlight are the only other examples I can think of that felt current. Yeah, I think that in both Hurt Locker, and Moonlight's case, but obviously to a much lesser extent, there's almost something sad about the best picture coming last.

It's why it was so great to see Parasite go on this run, because the night became about Parasite. The night became, look at all these people, you could see a genuine affection and actual, like, satisfaction in the crowd and online and people watching at home were like, yes, he won screenplay. Yes, he won director. Can you believe it?

This is happening. It was like watching a team. put together four quarters of like a game. But her locker and Moonlight felt like last second shots. And it was like, it went in. Holy shit. That's the end of the game. And it was like, okay.

Then Catherine Bigelow was like, I won Best Picture and that's it. You know what I mean? Or they go up on stage and that chaos of La La Land and Moonlight. And they're like, uh, okay, we won and it's over. And then only everything people want to talk about is the accounting error. But this was actually a coronation. Well, Captain Bigelow won. Best director for Herd Locker.

Oh. But I totally agree with you. There's generally, even if you have a run, like a momentum of a film, you know, generally then it reverts at the end. Right. And the night's over. Yeah. And you're like. Director is before actor and actress, right?

Usually. So yeah. Like it's the last half hour anyway. Right. So, okay. So for as much as this was the parasite, I mean, it's still exciting. And I love that people felt good about it. And it's so funny, too, because the night as a whole, it was kind of, you know, it was kind

of at war with itself because so much of it was about the academy's failings and presuming the worst and obviously the terrible reflection of the industry is not at all diverse that was present in the nominees. And that became the story. You know, obviously Steve Martin and Chris Rock were poking fun at it themselves to Natalie Portman's outfit on the red carpet with, you know, her gown was embroidered with the names of all the women who directed films who were snubbed. to the producers of the show, to their credit, filling the stage with as many people of color and certainly as many women as possible

in all these different categories to almost make up for the fact that the voting block, the voters, did not do that in their own estimation of the years in the nominating process. So it was at war with itself, and then it didn't go the way everyone thought. I mean, every year, it's almost it's hackneyed at this point

for the coverage of the Oscars to be about Oscars, not just Oscar's so white, but Oscar's so old, and there are always these variety or Hollywood reporter stories are the unnamed Oscar Crank. You know, it was just like, I met Judy Garland, and whoever plays her deserves an award. It didn't happen.

Parasite won. So someone who's old must have liked it. Some of the new people in the academy must have been responsive to it. This is also the thing about Parasite. Really good fucking movie. It's so good. Yeah, and like everybody, you know,

it's everybody who's, everybody who's, sees it is like, oh, this wasn't, like, that's not a chore to watch that movie. It's not like homework, you know, it's, it's, it's a thriller, it's a comedy. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's got all these different layers. It's got elements of Ernst Lubich in it. It's just so great. And I think that that's part of what, what made it such a great night. So, for all the celebration we're doing of the Oscars anointing something new, I do think it's worth saying, I am not immune to this. I, I also, like I think many people, I love it when people get their chip.

You know, if you're doing the sports analogy, like you and I were really, really happy that Andy Reid won a Super Bowl after you're wasting most of our youth watching him. Coach the Eagles. Like, there is something, it's arbitrary and it's silly and it's not about us, but there is this collective experience that we all have. I was going to say going to the movies, not something I often do anymore. but being a consumer of culture and loving entertainment, people you've grown up with, you've watched Rise and Fall and Rise Again, get welcomed into Valhalla.

And so Brad Pitt, who I forgot, did win one for Moonlight, right, for producing 12 years of sleep. There's 12 years of slave he won. He's an Oscar winner and as an actor now. And I love that shit. Yes. That's great. Like there is something, like there's just something kind of amazing

about the way it goes. And you were talking before about how, yeah, when Scorsese won for The Departed or Leo won for the Revenant. Like, are those the movies that they should have won for? I don't know anybody who would say yes. But it's kind of nice. Well, there's nothing.

It's not that the Revenant or the Departed is good or bad as much as it's just amazing that we aren't talking about five-time Oscar winner. Yeah, their makeup votes in a way. Because then everything shakes out a certain way. And that's the moment. And there's the momentum. But it was great. Like, you know, there are many reasons.

to like Brad Pitt. Many people describe them and write about them. My calling card is the Mark Marin podcast. But in general, he just seems like a very decent guy.

And there are genuine moments still in this world. And, you know, he's won every award leading up to this. This wasn't a surprise. There were people, you know, chatting online about

who's writing his speeches because they were all very charming and lovely and he knew he was going to win and he's been gracious, blah, blah, but you could see the moment hit him in real time and he got emotional. Yeah,

when he said the stunt person stuff. And it was very moving because, as he said, like, he did do this. And all of a sudden, you're standing on that stage looking out, doing the thing that you probably practice doing in your high school bathroom mirror before you even came to Hollywood. Yeah, I often practice in my mirror just being like, you know, thank you to the academy. You better not snub me. It's moments like that are great. And Laura Dern also, like, who, you know, has had such a long and varied career. to at this point in her life just become a mean lord.

And like the most universally beloved woman, sure. Is wild. I mean, it's just a bizarre career. I think that's great. What did you think about big walk energy? That was weird one.

Yeah. Like, I'm going to put my finger in the wind here and say that it's a complicated wind for this dude. I remember it really did. I was watching the show last night with our buddy Zach Barron and he and I are both big, we did some time in the hardcore and punk rock scenes of the of the 90s. And it reminded both of us of being at those shows, like, you know, like in like a VFW hall. Yeah.

And, you know, a band would finish like a savage breakdown and the mosh pit would settle for a second. And the guy would then lecture you about animal rights for for 10 minutes. And you'd just be like, okay. And then, you know, then they would go back into their, their, like post-hardcore screaming. But it kind of had that vibe where you were like, I, he has obviously done this speech, like a variation of it at like five or six times.

And he's obviously really committed to it. There was a lot happening in there, man. I've never met the man. He might be lovely. He might be a scoundrel, as he said, about himself in his own speech. I would say that it was a Joaquin Phoenix performance in a speech, which is he is a ball of kinetic

energy that can be harnessed for almost any purpose whether it is lawful good chaotic evil whatever he is just pure almost on screen he's pure it he's pure energy one of the most incredible

and physical actors that I can ever remember watching I mean his performance in the master is still like it's just so intense it's unreal his performance And from those who have seen Joker, even people who don't like it. I think you can probably get a lot of what people are talking about from the images that they showed last night. And even people who don't like the movie, you can't fault his commitment and his performance and his ability.

And without guardrails or without a script or a director, you get, I think this is what you get. And so it was kind of a wild ride that speech. because I was like, okay, I could feel people wanting to be into it and being like maybe we're going to go in a good journey here. I think it was one of those situations where I read a couple of things where it sounded like backstage or like in the press corps. It was a little like, oh shit, strap in. Whereas there were some reports that in the room in the Dolby,

people were like, speak your truth. Like there was a lot more like a... It was the... I mean, obviously there's a lot of affection for at least his performance, if not the person, because he has swept the... He's swept towards season. Well, he's a great actor. He deserves awards for his acting.

But that speech was the Stefan of Oscar speeches. I mean, it had everything. It had milk. It had cancel culture. Yeah. It had a loving tribute to his late brother. Yeah. I mean, it was a ride.

Did it remind you a little bit, ultimately, of the old Chick-fil-A commercials or ads when the cows would be like, eat more chicken? You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, I think he thinks... I think that was probably, like, what he was going for.

I think he believes in the rights of chickens, too, though. I think he and Runei Mera are full, like, it's, you want to talk about it? Listen, I kept, was he talking like, basically he was just like, we have the tech now to just like, we can just make fake, why not have non-sentient meat? He is a shareholder in the impossible meat company. Wouldn't be surprised. I would be surprised. Do you think that guy's aware of, like, his shareholdings? Do you think he, like, watches his portfolio?

Yeah. You do? Yeah, I do. All these guys have business managers. You kidding me? Yeah, but he, that's why he has the business manager. Oh, yeah, but like he's so ethical. He'll be like, nope, can't invest in that.

I don't know. You think he's like 3% growth this quarter of my G? Or G-TFO? Okay, here's the thing. You know, you and I are very close. We're in regular contact with one another, even if we're not seeing each other. We're sending messages and the like. We see each other quite a bit.

We do. But we also, like, we were having different Sundays yesterday. We weren't, we weren't texting a lot. I know. I got rained out at the course. During the, I feel for you. The thing that broke the seal on our communication last night was for me. Yeah.

Unfrozen caveman lawyer. In the moment being like, is that Rooney Mera next to him? That's happening? Yeah. Which celebrity couple are you more thrown by? Rooney Mera and Joaquin Phoenix or Florence Pugh and Zach Braff. I need a moment. I knew about the latter one.

Okay. Um, which am I more thrown by? I think I was legitimately surprised that Rooney Mera was with Joaquin Phoenix, but that feels okay to me. I'm learning to live with it. They're both, uh, intense and committed people. Mm-hmm. So maybe they, you know, they enjoy kale salads together.

Yeah. That's fine. I support that. The other couple you mentioned, there's a two decade plus gap. Yes. The gap, the age gap in Zach Brough and Florence Pugh is old enough to buy alcohol. So that seems extreme.

But, you know, this isn't the podcast where we comment on that too much. So I was, but I was, I thought that was wild. I love learning things, but you've known about this for a while now. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, because they were, I think they were in, they, I mean, I think they got together a while ago. I've seen them in the mix for a while.

My favorite low-key cut, just broadcast-wise last night, was Waukeen finishes the speech, finishes strong, finishes with a reference to river and people are feeling it, and then it cut to Rooney Mera and she did kind of like a mini like, nailed it. Yeah. She, that was wild. That was good.

My favorite cutaways were definitely all the people nodding their head to lose yourself. Oh, just digging it. Or just being like, I think I'm on camera, so I need to sort of present some sort of this, like familiarity with this. Some people were just wrapping along. Which, like, honestly, lose yourself.

I still know all the words. That's all. Yeah, mom's spaghetti. Come on. But it was really fun. Like I Deena Menzel's, her head not was the best. I do want to talk about that. Did you see, I also really respected, and obviously people don't need to respect Brad Pitt more.

But when Janelle Monet was asking for audience participation. He got into it. He did the first one. And then she was so surprised he did one. She started to give him the mic again. And he just said, I'm good. He did the, like, first one's free. Yeah.

Which I really respected. He did it in a very casual way. Okay. Side note for me. Uh-huh. Just my telegram from Datington Island. Jesus. Are we going to talk about this?

That was fantastic. The Frozen 2. Okay, here's the thing that you need to know, Chris. All that time we weren't talking yesterday, and you were, you know, you were sipping Arnold Palmer's dressed like Arnold Palmer, waiting for the clouds to part. They never did.

You know, I spent my morning. Watching Frozen 2 again? No, no, no. It's not on demand yet. Or I would have been. We listened to the, the soundtrack or songs from the soundtrack in Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin, Thai, German, Italian, French, Moli Alam, and more.

Because. Because you knew that that performance was coming. No, that was actually what we did yesterday. Why then? So my younger daughter is obsessed with it and is particularly obsessed with it in Spanish. She loves it in Spanish, the Oscar-nominated song Mucha Masaya, for example. Big, big, gets a lot of burn in our household. It's almost, I think, because she, you know, Frozen soundtrack is one thing.

Frozen 2 soundtrack is another thing. But if you listen to them in multiple languages, it's like a whole new things. Right. So she loves it in Spanish. Is she using it as like a doorway to being like, I think I might want to learn Spanish? Well, she's two and a half. Right. So that, you know, we're not starting, you know, Waldorf method or not yet.

Sure, okay. But it actually was kind of fun to realize that I got to say, like, if we could have, I know you'd love this. when you're out next time. The person whose job it is at Disney to get the songs in, the raw song data from the Lopez Anderson's, and it's just like, okay, we've got to fan out across the globe now.

Sure. We've got to translate this shit. Because these songs are clever, and they rhyme, and we've got to translate them into God knows how many languages and then find the singers. Didn't love German Olaf.

I'm going to be honest with you, but we'll revisit. My point being, then they did this, and I thought that was actually a nice tribute to the fact that, okay, I'm going to bring, watch this landing. The point we were making. about global cinema rings true even here on Daddings and Island.

I thought that was a good performance. Great job. You love Adina Menzel because she was in that other movie I didn't see it. Uncut gems, baby. Didn't see it, but she's in that. Yeah, yeah, no, I thought that that was really moving. Where are you, how's your Zellweger stock holding up? You check your portfolio recently?

I'm hedging a little bit. Are you? Shout out to her. I'm glad she. It's amazing. She seemed like she, you know, my wife watched Judy yesterday before the Oscars. I did not. I read Kevin Nuns tapping the source and took a nap, but it must be nice.

Must be nice. Don't give me that. I'm just kidding. Come on. That was the one award where I felt like what planet are we on? You know, like where is the world in which no one's seen Judy? Right. She just won everything.

Tell that to the lady next to me on the plane the other day. Oh, really? Was she watching it on the plane or was she just like, you got to watch you? She's like, I've seen it. Gene Judy, the film Judy, she was watching. Yeah, that was the one where I was just like, do better. It was interesting, Sean, and I will say this to his face. Sean was tweeting yesterday.

What's the deal? Which is how strange it is to him that that won. And I, from, again, from my far outside perspective, I wasn't surprised by that at all. Because if you, that montage we were talking about that they did before each award where they showed clips of each nominated performance, if you had taken that little montage and shown it to academy voters in five-year increments going back into the 60s, all of them could pick out the winner instantly, which movie, which was the winning performance. It's just, it's pizzazz.

It's, I'm doing a thing. Yeah, but I don't know that Judy Garland really resonates with a lot. Like, I mean, I think 10, 20 years ago, maybe it's more like, ah, yeah, Judy Garland, man. But now it's just like, okay. I mean, look, there's a couple things here. Like if, again, the roles that women get in Hollywood and the ways that they're promoted. No doubt. Is majorly different.

I mean, if you look at the nominees for Best Actor and the things that they're doing, and then you look at something like, no one's going to believe what I'm saying because I haven't seen these movies. But I do think the point stands. Yes, I understand. Other than Cynthia Revo, whom you and I love, and I would love to see her in Harriet, I bet that was a great performance because she doesn't give bad performances. But something like, again, unseen, Scarlet Johansson's performance, which seems, from the clips, amazing, dialed in emotionally true.

In marriage story. In marriage story. Not an end game. But she is not, she's pretty good in that. But that is not the, she's not the Joker. You know what I mean? Sure. She's not an aging mob hitman.

I mean, those parts are flashier than someone who's doing emotional, reactive, powerful work. So Judy Garland is the joker of that category, essentially, that performance. I got to say, with no shares, in that company, Zellweger, Inc. One of the wildest Hollywood careers in our lifetime because getting cast in Jerry McGuire was like a thing.

For those of us who didn't have podcast yet but subscribed to Entertainment Weekly in the 90s or Red Movie Line, that was like the most coveted part for a minute. And it was given to an unknown actress. I mean, yeah, I think she'd basically been in was she in days back?

Like, or was she in? I guess. I think she's in the, couple of like smaller things. She was like an empire records. I think that came later. And it doesn't matter. You're right.

Like she'd done very little and she got this huge part and huge a lift that came along with it. It doesn't fit any necessarily like stereotypical star trajectory with her, you know, whether the way she looked or whether her performances or her acting style and has put together this not just successful 25 year career, but has won two Oscars. Yeah. And owned a franchise too. Yeah.

And then disappeared for a while. And then just ghosted. Yeah. It's so unlikely and pretty awesome. Yeah. Respect as always. Let's take a quick break. And when we come back, we'll talk about last night's outsider.

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simply safe.com slash watch so they know we sent you. That's simply safe.com slash watch. All right. Greenwald, we're back. Let's talk a little bit about outsider before we get out of here. I think that was the best episode since the first two last night. Last night's directed by Corinne Kusama and it was essentially the merge point where Holly, played by Cynthia Rivo, who we obviously saw last night on the Oscars, Holly brings all of this hard reporting on essentially myth and legend. She's like, this is by all accounts, by everything I can kind of discern real shit. And she brings it back to Ralph and the people, what's the name of the time?

Is it peach tree? Cherokee City. Cherokee City, that's right. it's peach trees and him of the strip bar Cherokee City and people were forced to confront what they are willing to believe in the world and I thought the mixture of

the you know the conversations between people like Ralph and Holly and glory and everybody combined with just like a little bit of turning the dial on tempo and pacing and tension especially culminating with the last scene which I thought was just phenomenally shot

and staged and just like the little things like you know what like the stuff that happens on the bus winds up mattering when she gets in the car because she's just like I don't you know her nerves are there and I just thought it was a fantastic episode of a fantastic show

the only criticism I really have is I thought that she was going to unload all the truths and observations that would have been uncomfortable for people to hear up to and including why does no one in Georgia have a southern accent except this motherfucker over here you know what I mean?

Like that is the enduring mystery of the show that I respect sure at this point Because I cannot say this cleanly enough. Only Jack has a southern accent. The guy who was on Ozark, yeah. On the show The Outsider said in Georgia. No one else.

None of the other police, none of the longtime residents, no one. So, again, respect that. But joking aside, I love this show. I just fully unadulterated love the show. I love watching it. I'm excited for new episodes. I do not feel even the slightest. yearning to be doing something else during it, which, you know, in our scattershot society happens

even things that I nominally adore. Yeah. I'm so drawn in and captivated and just it's pleasurable, you know, and it strikes such a fascinating balance because it's unlike a lot of things that I've enjoyed in the past few years because its tension can be intense. You know, its severity can be intense. Some of the emotional stuff that it was playing with last night is stuff that I generally don't like watching.

It's hard to watch, particularly. about putting children in peril or talking about children being in emotional distress. That's just a tough, tough beat. Yeah, right. I love it. I know, but this is why people tune into this podcast for, you know, the Yin and Yang of discourse.

That's right. But because I trust the whole enterprise, I'm able to compartmentalize it and enjoy it for the entertainment that it is. The further I get from last night's episode, which was masterfully directed by Corinne Kasama. Director of the Invitation. If you haven't seen that or Destroyer, you should definitely check either of those movies out

because they're both phenomenal acts in both different ways, yeah. I think that it's actually even more impressive than I thought when I was just watching it because now that I've had a few hours to unpack it, last night's episode may have been the most challenging to pull off because, yeah, it did bring all the characters together

and did build to, you know, some pretty exquisite tension. I mean, there was there. through the whole episode, but really really started to feel like it was about to pay off in potentially terrible ways. The thing you're mentioning bringing all the characters together is busy work. You know what I mean? This was a Connect the Dots episode if you actually see past a lot of the style.

Yeah. Not just because it had to bring people together who hadn't been on the screen together, but because it required the, this was the, it was the McDLT of episodes. It required the cool procedural part to be combined with the hot, hot meat of the supernatural, which is not, which is the show's, you know, the tension point. And in order to pull that off successfully, since we've kind of, for the last few episodes, or at least I was going to say we've been from, we've been in Holly's POV, but really, I think since the audience knows we're going more in that direction, we've started to be more on her

team at least. See things that she's right. We don't doubt her. Right. Because of that, it required the other characters whom we like, like Ralph, to really reset in a way as hardline skeptics to the point where there were moments early on where there are two identical drawings and the sort of yeah a Richard Price character or a cop character is always going to be skeptical that's the nature of that job but he was like he was he would

he refused to admit that these were even the same idea think about like the acknowledgement of that of that being the case means he got an innocent guy killed yeah and that's and and you could make the argument that the power of this book Gogi man, Coco, cucko character would eventually overtake everybody anyway. But Ralph's sort of strident, like cuff him in front of everybody. Yeah. All like that setting that domino, those dominoes to fall. Like, he's confronting that.

He doesn't want this to be the case because he wants probably somewhere in the back of his mind to think my detective work did not get an innocent man killed and destroy a family. I agree with you. And I think Ben Mendelsohn's performance is getting better and better because he's is carrying the weight of all that. And I appreciated that the show didn't think it was too good to remind us of a couple things, particularly in the therapy scene, when they just spell out that he shot

a kid. He's carrying that weight. The character, the actor, has never let that leave his performance. But it's important to be reminded of that sometimes when we're chasing boogeymen, literally, through the Midwest, that the kid he shot Oliver had to a name was essentially a teenager and was the same age as his son. So the resetting of all that helps, I think, in terms of the point you're making. Yeah.

But I did think just as collectively one episode to the next, it did sometimes feel like a hard reset of skepticism because they were very supportive of what she was doing. And as we both just agreed, like the show has kind of veered more towards, well, she's not making it up. Right. So to suddenly present the characters that we've come to be fans of as attack, not antagonist, but obstacles. Yeah, I know. But it relaxed that not awfully well over the course of the episode and bring it all the way back, the style with which it was directed and the confidence

and just our understanding of physical space between characters, not just the framing, but building up to that last shot in the car, you know, the proximity between Jack and Holly. And also dropping the wet wipes and him leaning over. And knowing that Holly feels about physical intimacy and presence and then that using that, I think it was a drone shot overhead of the car turning. I mean, it was so effective. Let's just briefly here. Let me see if we're on the same page

about what the hell is happening. Okay. So to me, there are, you can read, there's a lot of really, there's Reddit threads and everything, you can read recaps like you can figure this out. I'm just trying to actually to just be like what I'm seeing on screen more than anything.

I haven't done a ton of reading about this. But there are basically like necks and doubles. Right? They're the people who get the neck wound, and they seem to be the ones who almost like facilitate. They're the physical slaves of the evil spirit. Right. And then the evil spirit essentially inhabits. Doesn't inhabit.

Or like basically clones a person. The evil spirit puts on the skin of the person when the person who they've doubled is absent. Or scratched, right? So that's that. There's scratches and there's necks, essentially. So the moment the scratch happens is marking his next double. He takes the... The evil spirit.

The evil spirit takes some DNA or whatever, if we're not really in the realm of science, from the next person that he's going to double to prepare. And then there's this gestation period that they talked about where it literally mults the previous skin and is in a weakened state. And because it's in a weakened physical state, it can't cause havoc or set up the next kill. So it needs people like Jack. So it takes a, yeah, like a slave, I think is the word they used last night, like a tool, a blunt instrument. Okay, we're on the same page.

To do whatever. And then sometimes to get that blunt instrument in line, it brings back its mother, played by Denny Dillon. Shout out Dream on Hive. I mean, that was a... That was scary. That was really scary. Yeah. That was good job by you, outsider.

Like, that was a jump scare. And it was disturbing, you know, it was good. All right. So we'll keep talking about outsider, obviously, I expect to just get more and more tense and nuts. Do you, I mean, it's pretty interesting that we are headed towards like an end game of the show where a small town police department essentially is going to try to kill an ancient evil spirit. I mean, that is literally every Stephen King book.

I know. But the slow walk to get there. Yeah. Just one more shout out to everyone involved in making the show because if this was a two-hour movie, the credulity required for a small town police department to be like, I guess, mission boogeyman. I think it could have been a six or eight episode show, but I'm actually after six, I'm like, I'm really glad there's four more of these. Yeah, I was still on the fence up until last night because I didn't understand exactly

how it was being parceled out to us. So Thursday's WatchPod will be a combo of talking about episode two of Briar Patch, which you can watch now. You can. And you should. You should do it. You can watch it on demand. You can watch it on USA Network.com.

You can watch it on YouTube for free. Even if you don't have USA, you can watch the first two episodes. I love YouTube. I hope you do. We can talk. So we're going to talk with a special guest who's coming in on Thursday. And then also on Thursday show, we'll have my interview with the showrunners of Hulu's high fidelity, Veronica West and Sarah Kisirka.

And that is a dynamite show. There are two shows coming out. this coming weekend that for me, the action is the juice. It's always about high fidelity, and it's about Narcos Mexico season two, starring Scoot McNary and Diego Luna. How many of each of those shows have you watched?

I have finished Narcos Mexico season two. Did you end up to watch screeners of that and talk to Diego Luna, Scoot McNary, and Eric Newman, and that podcast will be up the Monday after Narcos comes out. A week from today. Yeah, I'm a Narcos Megapod. Did you watch that season before it was filmed, like, in a way? In some ways.

In some ways. In some ways. I haven't decided when I'm going to bring out screaming Narco's voice, but I can't do it now. I've been talking for two hours. Did you do it for them? Like, did you? I did not. You didn't?

I did not. Did you say, like, Diego. Nice to meet you, Diego, Luno. Welcome to Narcos! he did it yeah he was he's a beautiful man can I tell you that I I have I once sat in a restaurant near him uh-huh and couldn't take my eyes off and also like you know sometimes when you meet somebody and you wonder if you have a soul because you meet somebody and you're like is that how human beings are supposed to be are you the outsider no but like I was talking to him and

I here's a spoiler I was like you know how do you basically like take the Felix kind of suit off and like get normal at the end of the night just looked at me and he has like permanent like beautiful wet eyes. It's just like, I have beautiful children. It's about them. I was just like, oh my God, dude. Will you be my father? Yeah.

He's younger than us, isn't he? Yeah. Wow. Thanks for listening to The Watch. We love culture on this podcast. We cannot, cannot get enough of it. We will be with you on Thursday. Take care.

Good job, Branskies.