The Watch - The Avengers Are in 'The Leftovers,' Plus Netflix's 'Russian Doll' | The Watch (Ep. 326)

Episode Date: February 4, 2019

The Super Bowl was a snooze, but at least we got to see Steve Carell shilling Pepsi (5:30) and an Avengers trailer (14:42). Netflix’s new comedy ‘Russian Doll’ is the perfect show for the streaming service (27:35). Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Read Alison Herman’s review of ‘Russian Doll’ here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Liz Kelly. With the Super Bowl and the books, I wanted to let you know about all of our coverage across the site. We have Kevin Clark, Robert Mays, Roger Sherman, and more breaking down every aspect of the game, including winners and winners and losers-ins and losers. Keepers and subscribe to our game, and the half-time show performance. Also, make sure to check out our YouTube.com on SLOPERNs on Kevin Clark talked to Amari Cooper on Slow Newsday, and Roger Sherman chatted with players from each team for their thoughts leading up to the game. Be sure to watch and subscribe to our channel on YouTube.com slash The Ringer. to have to clear the room. Stand up and walk now. Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I'm an editor at The Ringer.com. And joining me in the studio, he's on a pay phone looking to call home. It's in the Greenwald.

So the song is called Payphone. It is. I thought it was called Phone Booth. I was really mad that Maroon 5 didn't play that last night, as it is the only song that of theirs that I think I like. The only thing. Happy Monday. Worthy of anger during the Super Bowl.

I also just got the lyrics wrong. So that tells you about how much I know that song. But I will tell you, you know what's a fun fact about that song? Let's go. Phone booth or pay phone. Pay phone. Whatever. You know they turn into like the Dan band from old school at the end?

They're just like, I want to fucking call home. Like, like, it's amazing. You say they want to comb? No, they want to call home. But there's like, they start swearing. Like you just did on our Monday morning podcast. Well, look, man. It's, it's.

Do you understand? Roon 5 struggle? They don't have many struggles. Would you think of their performance last night? Should we just say hi? Yeah, we watched the Super Bowl together last night. Everyone, let's set the stage here. I'm in studio this morning.

Thanks to Kaya for braving traffic to be here with us. It's a long journey. We appreciate it. Kaya's been reading the Oregon Trail to get ready for this. Every morning. It's thrilled to be here. Since I last was in studio, Chris has just gone very bold with his color palette. He's wearing a beautiful shirt.

the kind of shirt that I'm not going to, guys, we're not, this company, though we are both wearing products made by them, we won't name because they're not advertising with us, Topo designs. But it's just the kind of shirt that I feel like a lot of our listeners out there will relate to where it's like, you see it. Anybody who's watched the flat circle has seen this shirt in action. You mean, low-key burn there that I haven't watched it? I'm just behind, guys. What I'm saying is it's the kind of shirt that you see in a store or on a website, and you're like, I wish I was the person that could wear that shirt. And some of us don't have that extra, that extra push. Yeah.

The confidence. And you look great. Are there other things that you long to be able to do? Watch the flat circle. I wish that I could roll my own cigarettes and smoke them. Yeah, you don't smoke anymore. But if I did, if I went back to it, I think I would be the kind of guy who just had like a pouch of tobacco. Is this just dream hour?

Like, I wish I could play piano and shoot three pointers. Because they look really fun and really useful. Kaya, any long-lasting wish? She lives closer to the studio. All right, so let's talk a little bit about what we saw last night. We're also going to talk about Netflix's Russian doll. Yeah, but the Super Bowl is nothing, if not a platform for entertainment. It was mostly nothing.

That was a tough hang. A great social experience, but, you know, in terms of football, very, very bad. Among the worst football games I've ever seen. In terms of football, I would say the most spirited part of the first half was a debate over the merits of the young Irish novelist Sally Rooney that broke out. Now, and it was revived when my wife came from the second app. She was like, did you guys have this conversation? Let's do it again. Yeah, yeah. It was one of the worst football games I've ever seen between a team that is pure evil and a team that was pure trash. Yeah. And obviously you and I had a little bit of an emotional

come down since last year at this time, our lives peaked. Fifteen minutes into the game and Chris said, you know, I'm not feeling as emotionally invested this year. That I appreciated. So, right. But Andy was very sick. Andy is like, one of the few vestiges of Andy's old life that he hangs on to, weirdly, is this, like, excitement for Super Bowl ads and then having takes on them afterwards. Did you think I was, was I a take Lord yesterday? No, but you were like, even last week, Thursday, you were like, well, we got Super Bowl ads on Monday, so that's the show.

I love content. So we did get a bunch of ads. A lot of them were like really stoic. You know, Anthony Lynn meeting his first response. Ronders directed by Pete Berg. My thing was this. Like, if the game is garbage, which it was, it puts a lot of pressure on the other parts of it. And a lot of America watches it for the other parts of it.

And I would say the other parts of it this year were sorely lacking. And we can talk about it in terms of the commercial industry, the advertising executives. But really, I also think the real culprits, and we should, we'll get to them too, is a lot of the big, big content guns sat this one out. Big newspapers stepped up to fill the content void. Great use of money, Pizos. That's just, when old media is failing, he spent six mil on a ad. If he gets a divorce, he's just got to burn all that off of his... Is it a Brewster's million situation?

He's just like, well, that's $5 million that I can have to give up. Oh, that's really good. I don't know. I think it was a good, you know, it's a worthwhile cause. And then there's the halftime debacle. So in terms of commercials, it was just, it suited the game, right? Because I feel like this is a game that very few people wanted. The majority of casual football fans who didn't have a rooting interest necessarily in the final four wanted Saints' Chiefs.

Yes. For pure football. Shoot it into my veins. Yes. Put it in a USB drive and jack it into my hard drive. Yeah. The Patriots obviously have a fan base, and it's a narrative. The Rams have uniforms?

I don't believe that anyone in this town cared too much. The Rams are a concept. So in terms of a pairing that people didn't ask for, that seemed to be the dominant working theory of the night where we had two chains and Adam Scott, where we had Carrie Bradshaw and the dude. And Steve Carell and Cardi B. And Steve Carell and Cardi B.

These are not combinations that America asked for, and a lot of it felt like... I take any pairing of those things. those six people as an Oscar host, though. Well, it's a great take. I agree with that. I mean, like, how come we can figure out how to get two people?

Like, Steve Carole and Cardi B can be in a Pepsi commercial, but we can't find an Oscar host. Why, we've really... America does need to be made great again, guys. But I don't think we're going about it the right way. Yeah. It was the shrug emoji of programming. And...

Can we talk about Steve Carell for a second? Sure. I've got questions. Going by his public demeanor appearances and professional choices of the last two, three years, he is big game Oscar hunting. He wants to be America's sweetheart on a dramatic scale. It's been like that since Foxcatcher.

Right, but he's been in like, he was in four movies in the second half of 2018. He was in Vice. He was in Welcome to Marwin. He sure was. I saw one of those movies. Beautiful boy, or he was in the one where he hugged Timothy Chalameh a lot. Beautiful boy. And I think there was one other that were missing.

All dramatic roles. He's in Hobs and Shaw. None of them, he is at Druselba in Hobbs and Shaw. None of them registered either awards-wise or critically or commercially. I mean, Vice did, but his performance was not, yes. And especially since he played Donald Rumsfeld as if he was Brit Tamlin. He sure did. But I, it's such a hard pivot to be like, I still have my thoughtful beard, but I'm going to be in a Pepsi ad.

I just don't get it. You seem like it's scandalized by this. Well, I just feel like it's a weird choice. Do you think that Steve Corel is in Fugazi? Like, what's the problem? No, no, no. He doesn't... I'm thinking about on two levels. I don't know his finances.

I'm not in the books, just checking him out. I don't think he's been made off, so I don't think he's in desperate need of... Right. A cash infusion. He does, but by all accounts, he does not need the money to be in a Pepsi commercial. No.

So it leaves one of two choices. He wanted a public image rebrand. or he deeply loves the product. And maybe he loves Pepsi. Do you love Pepsi? No, I'm a Coke Lord. Okay. Did I use that right?

Yeah. And just I'm curious about it because clearly we are post-everything where like Harrison Ford is in an Amazon commercial. Like anybody can be in anything. Nobody is in Fugazi anymore. That doesn't matter. So I'm not arguing that that should be the case. But it's just interesting because I thought Harrison Ford in the Amazon commercials among the best latter-day Harrison. and Ford performances. It was one of his better performances. I want to just put it in the larger context of

at this moment, it's early February 2019, the office, the NBC version of the sitcom, the NBC sitcom. It's the most popular show in television. It's the most popular show in America. Yeah. By all metrics, including Netflix's, we don't actually share our metrics, but it just seems to be the case. And everyone involved with the show is having this strange sort of afterglow of love and affection as a new generation discovers the show. is this in some way related to that where maybe someone was like Steve, baby, like we just got to get your face in front of people again because they love you

and frankly they don't want to go to Marwin. I think that I don't know when the decision was made to appear in this Pepsi commercial I would imagine probably before even that Welcome to Marwin. I think after that movie crashed and burned he got a lot of phone calls. Yeah, but he's also like,

I think that you mentioned that he's been Oscar hunting for the last couple of years. It seems like he's pivoting back towards the mainstream conception of what Steve Correll is now with top of the morning is supposed to come out on Apple at some point Although that's not what we've come to expect necessarily That was at least in theory

And I have my questions about that show What is your sort of median Steve Correll That you're trying to get back to? What's the line you want to be at? Do you want him to be Michael Scott Or do you want him to be I'm not offended Byrdrd by any version of Steve Carell

Who is one of our He's a great performer. I love him. I love that he can do comedy and drama. By all account, it's a wonderful guy. I have no beef with him particularly. This just seemed like such a strange pivot at this moment with the residual love and affection that he still carries from the office.

He doesn't need to do it, which makes me think he wants to do it. And I don't, I guess I just don't know why. Maybe he'll call in and tell us. But the pivot you were talking about, you mentioned the top of the morning Apple show, which I have a lot of questions about. But it was also announced that he would be involved in Greg Daniels who created the American version of the offices.

new Netflix show called Space Force, which seems a full embrace of his past successes. What Steve Krell do you want? We've burned more airtime talking about America's sweetheart Steve Krell. I want Don Rumsfeld, Steve Krill. I want his like turned it up a little bit to 11 and doing the like supporting role and doing that. I do like him on the margins doing Rick Tamlin, Donald Kroes.

Yeah, that's my personal taste. I have no, you know, the last detail sequel of Flagg Did you see that? Yeah, I mean, he was pretty good of that. And that's a link later. Yeah, and Fox Catcher and those kinds of movies. Like, they're fine. I think he's genuinely pretty good in those movies.

As far as why somebody's in a Pepsi commercial, you know, that's not like a groundbreaking thing anymore. Like Matthew McConaughey's and Lincoln commercials and people, like actors just do commercials now. That used to be something that they hid in Japan. Yes, they only would be like, I'm in an espresso ad, but you can only see it if you have like Russian YouTube. Yeah, Clooney and Brad Pitt would always be commercials. And now that's kind of.

they've wiped that off the books. And maybe that's because you do a Pepsi ad and you can give $5 million to your foundation or something like that. But I think that it's... What's Liljohn's foundation? I would like to sign up to be on its board. Yeah, okay.

You want to go to those books? I want to talk a little bit about some of the trailers. Now, my favorite play of last night was when Andy stepped up to the line, checked down and said, what's this as the Hobbs and Shaw trailer was playing? I had no idea. And you missed actually a croosh part, like plot point in that movie

that's not included in the Super Bowl trailer, I don't think. Which is that Idris Elba's character is like a superhero. Like he's a supervillain. He's like genetically modified so that like when you punch him, your handbrakes. Cool. So that's, they needed that, I guess, in this movie. Oh, because you're saying they added spice on top of the spice. Yeah, like it's like you have Jason Statham.

The Rock, Vanessa Kirby, and Idris Elba, and you're like, ah, you know what? The stakes aren't high enough. Let's make this guy an alien. Wow. Yeah, I don't understand anything. But I'm so, I'm very jacked for that movie. And I do not like Fast and Furious movies generally. I've never seen a Fast and Furious movie. I would say like Tokyo drift, but that's like saying you like the early stuff. Yeah, that's, that's like my finally crafted Paul Simon's best album is Hearts and Bones Dick. Like, that is really, like that's the foam finger waving wildly of takes. Yeah, I mean, so no one with hair is allowed in this franchise. Is that the...

Bodeswell for me. That's right. No wonder you are drifting towards it, Tokyo drifting. Towards it. Look, we all have to have our exit strategy from this podcast. I'm not mad at this. Conceptually, they seem like charming fellows. I like all three of those people in their performances.

All four, man. Well, Kirby, too, right. Although she has hair, so I'm having me all her time figuring this out. I know nothing about this world, but I am here for people that I genuinely like driving cars over tanks or under them or whatever. It seems, you know what it seems, this all seems honest to me. Is that a weird? That's good, yeah. It's just like, this seems like what this does seem like an example of.

So, contra, and I don't even mean to wait into the gender politics of the example I'm about to make. but Contra, like Ocean's 8, which seemed like a good idea that Twitter came up with that did not work in practice. This movie seems like the best case scenario of something that was crowdsourced, where people were like, we want the funny people who do the funny, crazy things with the cars jumping over ridiculous things, and also Idriselba's a super villain. Yes. That seems like an honest transaction in the cultural marketplace. And that is a great segue to Avengers Endgame.

Oh, boy. Because this is the thing is that, like, you know, right now there's this sort of post-John Wick action film that seems. incredibly comfortable with what it is, you know? Right, okay, yeah. You know what I mean? They're like, you guys came here for a reason. Yeah. And we're going to deliver.

And we've had, you know, 10 years or whatever of Avengers movies. About that? Yeah, I think Iron Man was 08, right? Yeah, well, we've had 10 years of Marvel, more than 10 years of Marvel. The first Avengers was 2012. Okay, so we've had the better part of a decade of Avengers movies. And it got off to a slow start, you know, with the first two. and especially Ultron was particularly laborious.

And then you get to Captain American Civil War, which is probably the best Avengers movie in a lot of ways. And the last Avengers movie, Infinity War, which had its moment. I think people enjoyed and I enjoyed it. Had a big ending that we've speculated a lot about. And I understand that they have to play fast and loose a little bit here with us, where they can't quite give anything away,

because obviously there's like going to be a lot of twists. in endgame, right? Peter Parker is skitching in Venice right now. Everybody's fine. Well, we don't know the timeline for any of this. Like, Ant Man didn't... I think Ant Man takes place before Infinity War, you know, even though it came out after.

You know, then it happens at the end. You clearly didn't stick around for the tag. I didn't. I was on a flight. And... I'm sorry, so you had to leave the theater? That's the time you should see the tag. No, I have like a whole... Like, when you're doing international travel,

you've got that watch list. You've got to get to Maze Runner death cure. Oh, you had a plan. Yeah. I was like next, next, next, next. I forgot about the tag. Got it. You were just like Sean McVeigh, you were just crushing tape. That's right. You were just running through all... I'm getting out-coached in this podcast.

Got it. You know, the point I was trying to make was like as of right now, based on the available footage from Endgame, it seems like this better, almost 10-year journey is going to end in two and a half hours of group therapy sessions. Which is

hilarious. Because the whole point of this collection of stars and this vibe was keep it light, baby. Yeah, we're not DC. Give me a line read. Let's do one for me, one for you. You know?

And it was all this banter and downy and this infectious kind of camaraderie that was bleeding through this entire project. Nobody is here for the sad raccoon. And then you've got, I swear to God, if this movie has more than five, I don't know what the over-under is in Vegas. I want more than five shots

of a walking raccoon and bailfully entering a cabin. Yeah. Picking up, idly picking up a paperback of John Cheever. Holding a leaf and going Groot. Did Groot not make it? Didn't he? He dissolved, right?

I mean, he's a treat, I feel like. I mean, it's all part of the same cycle. Am I right, baby? Dash to ashes. That's right. It is amazing. It is fascinating that the biggest cinematic franchise in the history of cinema, probably. has been building towards a weak T, the leftovers.

Now, you think Damon watches that and he's like, fist pump? We should call him right now. We will find, I will get his official take on this. No doubt heavily redacted. Do you think he answers the phone as Worshack at this point? That's a whole other question. It's wild to me. Now, I assume, look, one of the things that Fagie has done really well

is he has successfully balanced the different, emotional beats of this franchise. Between Ragnarok and Dark Night. Right, exactly. And so, if anything, all the goof arounds and lulls has earned them a little moment of this. And it was a 30-second teaser trailer for a film that is now coming out in two months.

One can only assume this is just the first 10 minutes because otherwise, it's insane. Yeah. It's super weird. And this is not necessarily the part that people want most. But this is also, you know, in keeping with comic books, they have to be the stakes and we have to have a moment to think about it.

But I just, you know, I was sad that Peter Parker went away. I really don't want to spend time thinking that all the people who are running from space rocks in the first Avengers, they lost their beloved great uncle. You know what I mean? Like, I'm, yeah, I don't want to run the numbers here. I don't want to know who's in and who's out in a fictional universe. This is terrible to talk about. But do you think that the people of Sokovia also lost?

That's right. Like you're like, we just got over Ultron, lifting our city up and dropping it. You don't want us asking these questions, Marvel, because that's sometimes some of the funniest and most clever riffs on comic books have come from that the part that we don't talk about, which is that everyone living in Metro New York City would be suffering from the most severe PTSD ever recorded due to the constant alien fucking invasions. that happen, or the fact that there is more crime per capita in the Marvel Universe version of New York than in the small New England town where murder she wrote was said. I know. Like, they, like, if you pitch this to the deuce, they would be like, come on. That's too much.

Like, there's a whole subsection of Marvel stories set in Hell's Kitchen, which is a cool name, but it's like six blocks long and six blocks wide. Now it's basically Broadway. It's basically like meatpacking east now. But in the world of this show, it is worse than Deadwood. I know. far worse. So I just feel like

they need to get over this quickly and then bring back the smiles. Although I wonder if they will in some way, and I wouldn't put this past their diabolical minds, retconning it so that all the characters they kind of wish they hadn't introduced like Natalie Portman's role in the first two Thor movies, they're like, she was always gone.

Yeah, right. Like she was just a victim of this. I bet what will happen. Because here's the thing that's kind of fascinating with this is that, you know, you take what happened the end of Empire in the beginning of Jedi with Han Solo. Empire the TV series.

Empire. When Lucius Lion. But when you, if you take Empire and Star Wars, if you take Empire and return to the Jedi, there's not a lot of mourning of Han Solo. No, they get moving. Yeah, they don't do.

They just pick it up with the rescue. Exactly. Sorry, spoilers, guys. Like, we do the morning, the audience, you leave the morning to the audience. During the three years between films. Yes. That's very smart.

I wonder whether or not they will trust the audience as much. much with the Marvel movies, or if they're going to be like, we've promised these actors, these great actors. These, these moments, too. 45 minutes of staring out of a window. The runtime is seven hours. Spider-Man! This is the Russo Brothers.

Gone too soon! Is this the Russo Brothers decalogue? Is this what I'm saying? I'm saying, like, I, like, is that, are they going to be, like, one for us? Two other small points. I feel like the beard chronology of Captain America is in reverse. He should have a grief beard. He should not look like...

He had a beard... In the last one, because he was in hiding. No. Now he should have the beard. And there should just be like bits of milk in it, like Ron Burgundy in the third act of Anchorman. He should not look like the first Avenger. He's literally the last one. This is a tostito from the Super Bowl.

Also, I do have some questions about who stayed behind. Jeremy Renner's agent is happy that his arms are unbroken now. And he's ready to go. I don't know. I'm just, you know, I'm just one man in the crowd. I don't know if America's psyched for the return of Hawkeye. Yeah. As the trailer seems to make it suggest that we might be.

Also, too many people with helmets that snap over their face. Oh, Ant Man. Cheedle. Oh, yeah. You know, just too many face snap and helmets. Those are my broad notes. Now, quick follow up on this. We should also talk about Captain Marvel, which also had a commercial.

They're out of footage to show us. They are out of a take, too. I, it's going to make a ton of money. It might even be good. But this does not seem like a rollout with confidence. Because they've tried showing us superhero action. They tried showing us space opera. And now they're like, it's a military movie.

Right. It's Top Gun. Clearly a successful version of a movie about this character should or could be all three. But, and they will probably have their internal data that like people who watch the Super Bowl would be more psych to watch Top Gun than Guardians of the Galaxy 8. Maybe that's their read on the situation. Right.

But it doesn't... I'm not feeling... I'm not getting good vibes. Based on... We haven't seen anything. We don't know anything. This is just based on the rollout. And for comic nerds,

there's this awareness that she's pretty important, right? She's huge. Yeah. She's a... This isn't like Ant-Man. Like, they're not going to be like, oh, we made Ocean's 11 with this guy

and then we can stop making those movies. This is the character that if they play it right would take Captain America's role in the future Avengers movies. Okay. She's a similar rank. Yeah.

I believe she's also a captain. If I was a superhero, I would just be a general. Yeah. And just see how it rolled. I think I always have the same reaction to these trailers when I see them on television for the first time, which is that this looks so fake. Like, this just looks bad. And I think that they do so many VFX when you sit there and watch the credits,

as I do not, obviously, since I miss the end of Batman. You have no idea. When you sit there and watch the credits and there's like a thousand guys who do like, you know, image correction and VFX, I have to imagine that it's going to look better than it did last night on the TV we were watching it on. But yeah, it looks bad and it does seem kind of like I don't actually, like I just don't care about the Cree scroll thing. Yeah. And that seems like they're like, you guys remember the Cree and the scroll? Well, now we have a movie about it. They also may have gotten in front of their skis a little bit in their ability to.

smooth us through origin stories. If you think about Black Panther, which is obviously an antecedent to this in terms of introducing essentially a new character in its own franchise, obviously also impossible and unfair to compare this movie to one of the biggest successes of the last decade plus.

So Black Panther was introduced in Civil War. And then when we got to the movie, it wasn't really an origin story, but Coogler and all the other people worked on the movie, found a very smart way to make us understand the origins of the title Black Panther, the country. He went through that. He went through his... The origin story was the origin of the tension of the movie, not the characters. Exactly. It was like, this is why these guys are on a collision course. These two guys. And also, he went through the sort of, you know, the ceremony twice.

And so we got to see what was the origin in a way, but really it was an established tradition and part of this continuum. So what they've done here with Captain Marvel is they've teased her, Sorry, Chris, you probably missed this on another one of your many international travels, but in the tag at the end of the last Avengers movie, we are getting this movie, which is the origin story and a 90s set period piece, essentially, a month before Endgame comes out. And obviously she will be in Endgame, but has not been revealed in any of the trailers. This seems bumpy to me. Maybe we wanted to see her in the context that we will know her before we learned about the time she high-fived other fighter pilots and hung out with Jude Ler. By the way, that sounds like an amazing life. I just said it out loud, and that sounds great.

How can they screw that up? We're going to take a quick break to hear from our sponsors, and when we come back, we're going to talk about Russian doll. Remember the time I saw Jude Law wearing Athleisure at the Brod? The Brod plays a big role in velvet bussaw. Well, minor, minor role. Today's episode of The Watch is brought to by Carnival Cruises. You're listening to us, so you probably like to laugh.

Probably not at our show, but, you know, generally, it's a safe assumption. You probably also like stand-up comedy watching movies on really big screens. Do you like getting on stage to lip sync to your favorite power ballad? I'd love to see that. Guess what? You can do all those things when you choose a Carnival Cruise vacation from comedy shows at the Punch Liner Club to live concerts, IMAX movies, DJ, dance parties on deck, and even a dive-in theater. I see what they did there, where you can watch movies from the pool.

Carnival has like a million options to keep you entertained at sea. A million seems like a lot. It does, but it's a lot. around that. Plus, they've got options for any kind of group, whatever you're into. Families, couples, bachelorette parties, fans of the bachelorette. Something for everyone, because when you choose Carnival, you are choosing fun. Let's be honest, Chris, fun is something we all need more of. Call your travel agent or go to carnival.com to explore more, book in advance with early saver rates and save on your entire cruise. Carnival, choose fun. Andy, we're back? Yeah. And we're

going to talk about a television show on Netflix. We're done with the trailers and ads? Any else you like? Oh, was there any other ones that you wanted to touch on? I just like messing up your structure. I think we got it. Yeah, it was Twilight Zone? Do you want to talk about Twilight Zone? No, I mean, it's just going to happen. We don't know anything about it now. And speaking of Jordan Peel, us had another trailer. It didn't feel like,

we will pivot. We should talk about Russian Doll. I was just going to say that one of the things that was most noteworthy last year in retrospect wasn't the trailers for upcoming movies. It was Netflix being like, P.S., we have a new Cloverfield movie for you? Was that last year or the year before? It was Cloverfield Carolefiel paradox came out last year. And they just dropped a surprise movie on us

and that felt like, oh, they're really using this platform and surprising people in an interesting way with this captive audience we have. Yeah. A lot of the other big guns either sat this out

or felt like there were better uses of their resources. So it was all anticlimactic. And then the bad guys won. Yeah. And on that note, let's pivot to TV. Right. So this weekend,

Netflix released Russian doll, which is essentially like a showcase for someone who's long deserved such a showcase, which is Natasha Leone. She is the creator or co-creator and the star, and I believe she directed the finale of this show. Natasha Leone is, I mean, like kind of this legendary downtown New York figure, but also like a really accomplished actress, but usually is used in supporting roles, is the friend, is the comic relief,

for is kind of like the energy person off the bench. Yeah. And this is an opportunity to see her as a leading character in an eight-episode series for Netflix. It was co-created and worked on by Amy Poehler and Leslie Headland. This is a dream team. Yeah. And gosh, you know, it's hard to talk about because this is a like its title would suggest has a lot of different layers and a lot of different twists within it. How many episodes did you get a chance to watch? I've watched half the season. I've watched four.

I finished the season. We could talk about it generally now, and then maybe we could talk about it. Yeah, we should revisit. Next week, we could talk about the completed season. I really, really liked it. I thought it was essentially, much like End of the Fucking World,

the perfect Netflix show. It is compelling enough to constantly want to keep going to the next one. It obviously is high concept, and I think the high concept is the selling point here. I think a show about a woman who is sort of battling her own demons in the Lower East Side

and arriving at a kind of midlife crisis might not get past the pitch but if you say but it's Groundhog Day with drugs you have my attention and for me

it was kind of cool because what Natasha kind of symbolizes to me is this like post Beastie Boys generation of downtown New York cool that that you know

I'm very familiar with from living in New York for 10 to 12 years or however long I was there like 11 years remember when the X girl store was still on Lafayette Yeah, I mean, like, and just seeing those people out at parties or, you know, like, at, you know, warehouse things and, and you'd just be standing there and then you'd look to your left and, and there would be, Chloe 70 would be there. That's who I was going to say to. And that was, that was a very cool experience. And the transition of my time in New York was bookended by going to the library bar and Avenue A and there's Chloe 70 to right before I left. My wife took me to a birthday lunch at Del Posto and Chloe 70 was having lunch there with their families sipping on sparkling mineral water. And I was like, well,

It's time to go. When I was flying back from New York last week, I watched my first few episodes I've ever watched of Vanderpump rules. Did you stick through to the credits? Yeah. And then you got to see when Vanderpump ties into the Avengers. The expanded Bravo universe? And one of the characters on Vanderpump's, like this, this reality show about a bunch of people

who work at one of the real housewives is she has like a Lisa Vanderpump. She has a couple of restaurants on Melrose? Melrose. And like they all work there. really what they do is, I think, take Adderall and screw each other. And so like New York in the early 2000s. It's exactly like that. And one of the characters while I was watching was like,

oh, like they had to go to like Marina Del Rey or something like that. And they're like, oh, I don't go east of Libreia and I don't go west of La Sienega and I don't go south of Wilshire. So they had like this box in Hollywood that they stand. And I laughed, but that was kind of what New York was like. It was like, even though it was this huge expansive city, there was like a good five-year period where it was like there's this square from like Avenue B

to third avenue up to Union Square and down to pianos or something maybe a little farther south if you wanted to go down to like Rivington or something but that essentially was like this block like this huge square of New York and that's the playground that Russian Doll is set. Yeah, Tompkins Square Park being the center piece

that she keeps walking through. And so just watching her pace up and down Avenue A as if it's the grand concourse of this imaginary palace that she lives in, it was very reminiscent of what it's like to live in New York, whereas after repeating in the same steps a lot, you start to kind of feel a dominion over it. And obviously, you know, they take this area of New York City and turn it into a kind of purgatory for her to, you know,

meet a bunch of demons that she has in her life and also to sort of figure out what the real like reason for being alive. is. I appreciate you're talking about the New Yorkiness of it. It is extremely New York show, and Netflix seems to be a safe space for that wing of the entertainment complex, Master of Nunn being another example of it. The feeling of being younger and living there and the way that like, okay, so you move out here and people are like, oh, indoor, outdoor living is the move, like if you have a backyard or whatever. Yeah. What I think of, when I hear that phrase, is living in New York where your backyard is the city, where you are inside for a part of the

and part of the night, and outside for part of the day and part of the night. And what's happening outside affects you, what's happening inside, and all of it is yours, and your dining room or your living room is the bodega or the park or whatever. And there's always back rooms and secret rooms and other ways, other place, it's like video game logic. There's always another level to access.

So the show is very well situated. It takes great advantage of the location. I enjoyed the first half that I watched, and I enjoyed it more as it went on. And I couldn't help but think about it in terms of its place in the sort of of TV cultural firmament at the moment. It's definitely representative of where we are in that, for me personally, and I wonder, I don't think I'm alone in this. I'm curious what people think. It really wasn't until the introduction of the Allen character at the end of three that I perked

up, not because I wasn't happy hanging with Natasha Leone because she's awesome in it, but because I was mostly feeling the concept and not really just being present in the life. The concept kept getting in the way from me, the constant death and regeneration and restarting. And it made me think, and this show has been universally praised, that people are assuming, especially with half-hour episodes, the whole season is four hours long, they're assuming that you're going to watch the whole thing. It would be, so to criticize this show for not fully engaging me after one episode would be like saying, you know, I bailed out on Roma after the dad couldn't pull the car into the driveway. Right. Right.

And I'm curious what he does in the second half, but I have no idea. That's not how this works anymore. But I was still approaching it because of the schedule I had to watch it with that older thinking. So that was interesting that I think critically and maybe even, you know, at least what I'm seeing on Twitter, people are saying, I watched Russian doll. Yes. You used to say I watched a show and you meant you watched the first episode and you were excited to watch more. Right. For something this snackable, you watch the series.

Yeah, and I think that there's like, it's interesting to compare and contrast Russian doll to Black Monday. Black Monday pushes all its chips in, like, in the first episode. Like, I think they use, like, there's, like, five visual gags, and it has, like, itself a huge reveal at the end of the first episode. And almost every, like, character is on 11 so that you can just feel like, oh, that's what this is going to be like with this character for the entire season. Russian doll is a lot more, like, I think it's actually a lot more staccato.

You know what I mean? Like, you never really get a rhythm for when she's going to die. in any given episode. True. And when she's going to have to start over again, there are elements of the supernatural, but there's also parts of it that you could make the argument

that the deaths are kind of like a metaphor for addiction and recovery. Like every time she wakes up, she's like, what happened last night? You know what happened to me just now? I made the same bad choices or something. Yeah, and that's obviously something that Natasha has dealt with in her life.

And, you know, so I thought that was pretty cool, but you're right. I mean, you really have to, in some ways, even though these episodes are about 29, 30 minutes, you kind of have to block out 90 minutes to get into the rhythm of it. And then the other thing that I was curious about, and I think I'm agnostic on it, I was just really interested. The concept is incredibly high and, you know, just purely on a execution level,

no pun intended, for the continuity, for the creativity, for the stakes of, you know, we've introduced this concept, so how are we going to pay it off or explain it in a satisfying way? It's really impressive work done by the entire creative team. But this, forever, the good place. Maniac. Maniac also questions reality, but it's not, those three alone are just about death. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And it's wild. I thought you were just talking about like very high concept in general. We could put that in too. Sure. But purely just, you know, if you're just thinking about in terms of like they're about people dying or what happens, these big questions, makes me think two things.

One, dramas have ceded a lot of these big questions to comedies or to half hours. Sure. Potentially because it is, you know, an easier hang. I mean, the leftovers struggled with this and now we're going to see it on the big screen and the Avengers. But in terms of the high, high, high, high concept drama, they are mostly veering toward genre concept. Well, funnily enough, it seems like more and more dramas are concerned with workplace, which

is what comedy used to be largely concerned with. Exactly. And you could just be like, it's at a radio. or it's at a bar, and that was enough for a comedy pitch. Exactly. And I miss, I think. And now it's more like, yeah, these are a bunch of cops or these are a bunch of people who are working in an advertising agency or whatever, you know.

And I think in terms of Forever, which I liked and, well, I like, actually, I like all the shows I'm mentioning, I did find myself missing some of the, this isn't going to get something made on Netflix or get noticed and get the raves that got by New York or New York Times or whatever, as Russian Doll did. But I found myself wanting a show set in this world. that was just about her life without the concept. Yeah, the one that I just said to you, the one that was like,

this is about a woman who's dealing with addiction and our midlife crisis. Living on the Lower East Side with this interesting group of artist friends and neighbors, I would happily, happily, I'm not saying I would rather have it, but I was finding myself interested in that show and wishing I could get 13 episodes of it a year

for the next five years. But this is part of the cinematification or whatever or the high-stakesification or the Netflixification of All-Ey. Yeah. That that isn't being made anymore. And is that kind of, it's not that it's not being made anymore, but it's not being prioritized.

It's not being noticed as much. And is that, you know, we've spent a lot of time talking about the missing, not just us, everyone, the middle ground movie, the middle budget movie. Sure. You know, the adult drama that has now became TV dramas for a while, or maybe now it's becoming Netflix movies. I don't know. But that sort of just, I guess is Sex in the City an example?

I'm not sure. That's sort of, here's a group of people dealing with things, not. in a Big Bang theory sort of way, comedy. Are we losing that middle space? That's interesting. I'm trying to think of the last time that, what's the last drama, impactful drama that was pretty much just...

Drama or comedy, right? It doesn't have to just be a drama. I just mean the... I mean, but you could make the argument that like something like modern family or superstore is pretty traditional and it's like kind of approach to...

It's a bunch of characters. Yeah, and Master of Nun does that too because, you know, there's the bench of character that we go back to in a sort of innovative storytelling way. Anyway, that's just some observations I had. None of it is fair to put all of my, you know, I'm just thinking about it questions on this show,

which is worthy and really interesting. And as I said, once the machine got bigger, once we weren't just alone with her struggle in it, and then we introduced this other character, I was, I became more invested in the specifics of the show and I stopped amusing about what it could be. Okay, so now we're going to, here we go. Yeah.

The gears are turning, and we're going to see more about the what and the why, not just the who. Yeah, I also really enjoyed the, as someone who's probably played a supporting actor and a lot of movies and TV shows, I thought Natasha Leon had a really good eye for supporting actors. The sort of ensemble around her, I thought it was excellent. Jeremy Bob from the Nick, who I love. Greta Lee's terrific. Dasha Polanco, right, from Lange's The New Black showing up. No, and even the guy who plays Alan, who I'd never seen before, is a really interesting actor.

Charlie Barnett, I guess is his name. I think he's been on the Chicago franchise in the Declose First. That's right. And just to say, finally, where you began, which is Natasha Leon is, it's kind of an incredible story that because she reemerged on Orange's the New Black, we're not, you and I are, we're not paying maybe enough attention to it, that she was a big, exciting sort of star in our in our galaxy when she was making appearances in teen movies and slums at Beverly Hills which is a great great great film and then she vanished and she became this you know sort of legendary cautionary tale and everyone no one knew the specifics of her life and

those are hers to share but it the the sense was that she was suffering from addiction and was unwell and was just not going to be an actor anymore and was and was gone and she it seems healthy and happy and together and she's such a unique performer she has, you know, the rhythms and the comic sensibility and the presence of like a Cassavetti's actor. And it's really fun to watch her be the object that everyone else orbits. When I was just starting the series, and, you know, as you guys can tell, after one episode, I was a little bit more on the fence than I am now because now I'm excited to finish it. Called home, spoke to my parents.

My dad, all in on the show. Is he? Really, he saw the positive reviews, said he had never heard of this young woman before. not true. He'd seen all the movies we just mentioned it. And my mother said she was on Orange or the New Black, and he said, well, I haven't watched that in years, which does not get him off the hook because she was on those seasons. What a fascinating before. He thought she was great. What a face, he said. Really? Yes, so I'm saying.

It gets the Mr. Greenwald seal of approval. It gets the young Greenwald seal of approval. And I was like, how did you feel about the cigarettes laced with cocaine? Like, is that, did that ring true? He's like, well, that's how the Israelis do it. Exactly what he said. Apparently everybody knows it. So it's cool. I'm very curious from our listeners,

their reaction to the show, because I wonder if this is going to be, it's not just there, two Netflix's, there are 100 Netflix's now. Is this the Netflix that gets the Emily Nussbaum rave and gets the coverage on the watch

but doesn't have the legs of like Fuller House in terms of the culture? Or is this, are people really checking this out and being, you know, excited or surprised by it? Yeah, I'll be, I mean, they'll tweet it out. But I think that this is like, it's, you know, it was like a quiet weekend in terms of there wasn't a lot out in the theaters and there wasn't a lot going on sports-wise. I'd be curious to know whether the first weekend numbers for this were pretty good. Do you think they'll share them? Because now they're getting a little bit chatty. Yeah, but like selectively chatty. Yeah, they're not chaty about this. Generally. So we will check in Thursday with you and we'll chat a little bit about something. I'm not sure what yet. Oh, there's always stuff to chat about. I have not watched the latest episode of a detective. Or the flat circle for the that matter. No, I'm saving that to binge all at the end. I'm curious about the status of everyone's souls. Are they souls of? Are they souls of horror still at this? Or is it, do you think they've

matured? There's only one soul of a horror. That's kind of a tell though. There's got to be, look, if you're making a mystery, you have to have more than one. And he's referring to the fact that, and I had warned him and this is coming. She did. That Mamie Gummer's character, Lucy Purcell on True Detective, has a very iconic line reading where she just goes, I have the soul of a horror. Do you cover that on the flat circle? I mean, it's just like if you've watched a David Milt Show once, that's not a crazy line for somebody to say. Can we come up with that meme watches a David Milt Show once? Okay.

It's great to see you, man. Good to see. I mean, if you wear that shirt, I'll come back to the studio every day. It's a great shirt. I'll see you on Thursday. Great shirt, Beranski. Really good job. Today's episode of The Watch was brought to you by Carnival Cruise.

If you love this episode of The Watch, you're probably the kind of person who should is fun. And when you cruise with Carnival, there's more of your favorite kinds of fun on board than any other vacation. Fact. From live comedy. Facts. Hashtag Facts only. From live comedy to live theater to lip sync battles, IMAX, even a dive-in theater where you can watch movies from the pool in the middle of the sea. Call your travel agent. Chris, they have it all on Carnival. Hey, call your travel agent, man. Listen to me. Go to carnival.com, explore more, book in advance with early saver rates and save on your entire cruise. Carnival. Choose fun. It's a pool in the middle of the ocean.