The Watch - The ‘Curb Your Enthusiasm’ Series Finale, ‘Ripley,’ and ‘Sugar’

Episode Date: April 8, 2024

Chris and Andy talk about the series finale of ‘Curb Your Enthusiasm’ and how the show has evolved over its 12-season run (1:00). Then, they talk about the first two episodes of ‘Ripley’ and how it may be the best thing on Netflix since ‘Mindhunter’ (15:06). Finally, they get into the first two episodes of the Colin Farrell show ‘Sugar’ and how it’s hard to judge the show when they know an extreme twist is coming (41:53). Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimphaya. Tap this ad to learn more about Trimfaya, including important safety information. This episode is brought to you by Brooks. Running connects us to a rush of energy that flows through our world. The cheers of friends that unlock a new gear within us, the intersection of interest that inspires a run crew,

the support that gets you over the finish line. Connection is why we move forward and what inspires us to keep going. Let's run there. Learn more at brooksrunning.com. I need supports to have to clear the run. Stand up and walk now. Hello, and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan.

I am an editor at The Ringer.com. And joining me in the studio, he is no longer sequestered. It's Andy Greenwald. What a thrill to be here. Andy's back. I'm back. What's up, man? Thanks for dropping by.

Thanks for checking in. All right. I'm so back. Yeah. I'll tell the listeners this. I'm not afraid. I called you on my drive here because I wanted to start podcasting. Yeah, but you didn't really want to talk.

You just wanted to chat. That's all I want to do now, too. I love it. I love it. Let's talk about the eclipse, man. Let's talk about nut milks. I want to talk about all that. But first, we have some more important business, which is we have to say, happy birthday to Kaya. Happy birthday to Kaya. Now, all of our listeners should chime in. They will. And we can leave 40 seconds of silence while they sing. Kaya, the producer, will love that. To you. Thank you guys very much.

And I'd like to think of myself as extra special because I kicked off Kaya's birthday festivities by wishing her happy birthday a week early. It was kind of like the first weekend of Coachella. Yeah. Thank you. It was just, I wanted to let you know, you know, when you think back on this year, who got your birthday right? Most of the people in your life. Who got your birthday first? Just one guy. It was you first and then my 98-year-old grandmother was two days prior. Oh, it's prior to me? No, two days after you, but two days prior to my actual birthday. Oh, so I'm a little more out of it. Is that what we're saying here? Sure. Just Hawaii 4-6 over here. It's just been amazing to watch Kaya Age, you know? Over the course of the week.

Because I told you to say happy birthday to her also a week early. And I was like, isn't your birthday? And she was like next week. And I was like, ah, Andy. She's like, I have one every year. That's sweet. Classic calendar guy. Sorry about that.

Grual, it's great to see you, man. How was, are you allowed to talk about Hawaii? Do you mean because Governor Ege and I had an agreement? You get very like, I don't want anyone to know exactly what I. island I was on, you know, like I don't want people to know where I'm dining, you know. Because, no, look, my cover was blown. A kind listener and fan of the podcast saw me on the beach. Luckily, I was wearing my, I mentioned, I had a surf shirt. So I was styling. The best thing is I came back, you guys can't see this. I came back from a week in Hawaii with very, very tan hands.

Yeah. What's up with that? Did you not put scent and lotion on your hands? No, it was that I was wearing this long, sleeve number. That's not how I roll, man. You just let it out? I'm straight William Finnegan. I just like get cut up by the waves. I love it.

But anyway, I was spotted on the beach by someone who said, it was very kind, loves the show. Yeah. And said, you know, I thought it was Nathan Fielder. That's a deep cut. That person really puts in the time. I couldn't tell if that was like a callback. Uh-huh.

Because it was a callback. I think it's pretty clear that like I hate that. You know, like that's something that I don't like... You brought it up a lot, though. I think it's one of those things where you're like, you're 80% not into it, but you just like people to know. Like the fact that I watched the curse. Yeah. 80% not into it, but I want everyone to know that I finished it.

Right? Anyway, it was that was. So, yeah, so my cover was blown. I'll talk about it. What do you want to talk about? You know, like, did you know the Hawaiian islands are the tops of very, very tall mountains? No, actually, I didn't know that. You haven't taken a boat cruise with Captain Kyler like I did.

That guy had facts. I do really like enjoy the idea that Kyler Murray in the off-season runs boat towards. Wouldn't you? Like if you could do anything. Jonathan Gannon was my coach, I definitely would. This is another conversation that we shouldn't have today, a day when we actually have tons of television. So much TV to talk about. Sugar, Ripley, curb finale.

We have a lot to talk about. But I have been, let's save this for a rainy day in TV land. But like, the Philadelphia Inquirer ran a piece on like, where are they now, members of the world champion 2008 Phillies. Okay. Because the last player on the team retired, so they were like, let's run the series on people. And remember Joel and Joe Blanton?

Mm-hmm. Who was the pitcher who wasn't the other pitcher? Is he running boat towards around the Ozarks? No, he bought a winery in Napa. Oh, that's the dream. That's what you should do. I feel like, are they going to run out of wineries up there? Because I feel like rich guys keep doing that.

But here's the thing. If you do it to be like, I'm going to become, you know, Coppola or Beringer, like, it's not going to work out. But I feel like if you're smart. Like Tom Berringer? Like actor Tom Berringer. Is he a big wine guy? It's in one of the oldest vineyards in Napa.

Oh, okay. Oh, like you don't know the ages of all the vineyards in Napa. This is when Chris tries to be a regular guy. I get it. Joe Sixback over here. I'm like like mozzarella sticks, PBR, and watching women's basketball, man. What do you want for me? But my point is, if you, it just seems like the perfect thing to do if you're pretty rich

and you just want to be a happy and. be comfortable losing just a little bit of money every year. Francis Coppola is comfortable losing money every year. Well, that's a separate argument. I agreed. But you know what I mean? Like, you're never going to become Bartels and James out there. But you could just have your little winery. You can make your little cabernet. That's probably not great. Yeah.

But it has your name on it. I think in the article, Joe Blent was like, well, I don't really know a lot about, you know, winemaking yet, but like I like to drive a tractor. And I was like, that's awesome. That's cool. That is Kenny Powers Vineyards, as far as I'm concerned, and I love it. I would do that. Would you go to Napa or would there be some other, like, geographic location?

Oh, yeah, Central Coast. Central Coast, California. Yeah, like around Santa, up and around Santa Barbara. You know the region. I do know the region. This is the best podcast we've ever done. Andy, should we start with Curb Your Enthusiasm, which concluded it's, what is it, like a decade-plus run 12 seasons? 12 seasons over 24 years.

And largely, I wouldn't call it a victory lap because he took his foot off the gas, but Larry David has obviously been out there. he was on Bill's Pod. He had an incredible morning show appearance with Elmo. There's been a lot written about the sort of conclusion of this series. Obviously a little bit,

like, Bittersweet with the passing of Richard Lewis in the last few weeks. He featured in this final episode pretty heavily. And we get like another sort of Larry David finale, which is, I think, sometimes with comedies, I'm like, oh, the, like, the sitcoms, when they have to do their

fineries, lose their sort of essential comic comfort that they have, like, going for it. They become a different type of show. And, you know, Larry David is obviously he oversaw, did he actually oversee the Seinfeld finale? Yeah, it came back to do it.

Came back for the Seinfeld finale. Revisited Seinfeld in the way on Curb. The reunion season. And then explicitly referenced the Seinfeld finale on the Curb Your Enthusiasm finale. What did you think of the finale as? as our number one landing sticker. I loved it so much.

I loved it so much. It was so... First of all, it was very funny. It was a very funny episode. It was very funny. I think that the conceit of like flashing back to previous egregious actions did do one thing,

and I think they were probably well aware of it, was that it did... It was like a reminder of how taught and savage the show used to be. Yeah. You know, just in terms of... The Orthodox Jewish lady who's like, I can't be with you after such. My old college shum Iris.

Nice to see her working on this show again. Yeah. It's a flashback. Yes, to that episode. But she was back on the show. Early season when he hugs a child in a women's restroom with a bottle of Poland Spring is shoved down the front of his pants.

Like that is not late season curve behavior. You know what I mean? So it was a reminder of that. But the vibe of these last few seasons, it's baggier. it's a little more like winking. But it is probably, I would imagine, it's kind of a lot like losing the show

is a little bit like one's favorite podcast going off the air because like I love these people hanging out and I love their voices. Even if they're talking about being recognized on beaches in Hawaii. But you know what I mean? Like just the world, the vibe, the way that they talk to each other,

I loved it so much and I thought the final episode was so celebratory of that everyone got their moments. Everyone got to be the best version of the characters that they ended up becoming on the show. I mean, and by that I mean like the character of Ted Danson, for example. Yes. But the way that he both addressed the pretty universally loathed Seinfeld finale by just saying, fuck off and doing it again, but tweaking the ending.

Yes. And then having Jerry Seinfeld say, you know, we should have done. this for the Seinfeld finale. Was so, that was so deeply Larry David, because he just, and that's been the essential thing of the show since it started. He does, he cares, but he doesn't give a shit. And that is so perfect and I'm going to miss it so much. It's so funny that you mentioned the podcast thing because curb, it's not like a podcast,

but I have a relationship to it that's very similar to, I think, what you're talking about, where it's like, I'm not really into Curb for the season-long arcs. Like, I really didn't care about his trial, which was pretty funny, but, like, of the the foundations that they've built season houses on was not, like, the best one ever.

And I think for me, it's like, the pleasure of curb is its constancy. The pleasure of curb is it's, like, it's presence. So it's so funny to watch it turn around, and, like, wheel around third base and go home at any given time. To me, like, that,

what that represents is I would like to live in the airplane cabin where they're squealing on squealers at the beginning of this episode and everybody's got their phones on as they're trying to take off and Larry's like a sentinel looking over when Jeff mocks him

because he has a video on his phone but yeah it's just I think it's really cool that he went out on his own terms as always do you have 5% 2% 3% amount of leaving the door open that they would still bring it back? Yeah, because it doesn't matter.

Like, that's the other thing that I love so much is, again, making the show from a position of he's made his pile of money. Yes. He wants to do what he wants to do. He finds, what he finds funny is what he finds funny. And he just says no, if anybody disagrees and he makes the show he wants to make. It's just, that's the DNA of it. So I don't think he's done.

I don't think anything that he does in the future will be that markedly different from it. And could it involve some of these people? Why not? Like, it's just a recurring... Yeah, I wonder if he has another show in him. I wonder if he just wants to play golf and hang out. I just wants to play golf and hang out.

Yeah. The thing that's what he wants us to think, but he has been doing 12... Curb for 12 seasons. But I think that one of the things that definitely changed, especially during the, you know, multi-year hiatus between seasons, what was it before season 9 or before season 10

when it took like six years off, was the nature of the show before that, certainly in the early seasons, but then even up through like the Seinfeld Reunion season, is that you did feel like he had a big notebook that he and Jeff Schaefer and his other collaborators that he wanted to just like unload. And when a show came back,

what it seemed like he most wanted to do was hang out and laugh. He just wanted to like watch J.B. Yes. And what's incredible about that is how the show stayed pleasurable. Like if I had just watched or if anyone had just watched

the first three seasons of the show, I don't think generous would have been a word that anybody would have used to describe it, even though it was incredible and brilliant. The scene in the car in this episode when J.B. Smooth is talking about how... Seinfeld is a documentary about getting ass. Yes.

And about how you might need a replacement D and how that would work similar to a car. Larry David's laughter is so genuine and so happy that that seems to me more than enough reason to do anything. Yeah. And then the sort of notebook emptying became almost like, you know, it's like little flourishes in the margins.

Like the, there are a couple within this. What is, I mean, the whole idea of like being a crutch fucker. Like, even the road rage incident with Alice and Janney is just like Larry David just needed to get this. They're not letting me in.

That's an entire, both of those ideas are episodes in season three of course. And now he's just having fun with his pals. And as you said at the beginning, one of his pals is no longer with him. and it's bittersweet. Those guys have,

when you saw the flashbacks, like, 24 years have passed. That is a long time. Yes. I don't really, yeah, I think that if they,

it would be very cool if Larry David did something else with TV. It's also very cool to me that he is like, curb is the canvas that I paint on. He found it.

He found the thing that made the most sense to him. And, you know, my thing that I feel a little bit, like one of the, great things about the show is that we've had this, you know, the Kirby enthusiasm special, which is still available to stream and not part of the series, but it debuted, I guess, two years after the Seinfeld finale.

So there's very little lag time between the shows. So we've had 30 plus years of these two guys in some form of serving. Yeah, and just watching them be like, why does the judge have to get the decision delivered to him? Why are there two copies? That was worth everything. Yeah. If that had been the only joke in the whole thing, like Dainu, I fucking loved it.

And that tradition of a very specific type of Jewish-American humor and, like, having that in our lives, having that in my life. And then also with those guys having the connection, the historical connection, to look back and have older comedians on it. Or even have, like, the Einstein brothers, like Albert Brooks and Bob Einstein, who played Funkhauser. And then Richard Lewis, like, that's a different generation and a generation passing. and I don't know who picks up that torch or in what format they do. Theo Vaughn. Yeah, maybe in a podcast.

Chain Gillis, maybe. We'll do his part. So we have these two new shows that we want to get to today. Yeah. Ripley and Sugar. Some things that they have in common. Both star very highly regarded

award-winning actors, Andrew Scott, in Ripley and Colin Farrell and Sugar. Both of them doing very strong American accents. Both of them doing very strong American accents. Mexican accents. Both are about outsiders being brought into a world. Both were very hot properties. Both, I think, you know, like, were... They're both Irish, by the way. I didn't realize that. Both very hot properties. I always forget that Scott's Irish, honestly. The sugar was something that I think was subject to something of a bidding war when it was first being kicked around. I believe in like 20, something like that, maybe 1920.

1920 Not 1920 Like the golden age of You know Of Taylor Sheridan Dutton Family Saga No I mean around 2019 or 2020

I think Mark Protisovich who wrote and created this show Like I think that it was being kicked around And I believe a couple of different networks And we're in on it Similarly, Ripley has been in development Or was kind of like being talked about for several years.

It was initially a Showtime show. Showtime has since been sort of subsumed by Paramount Plus. And the show, I believe after completion, was sold to Netflix. Yes, this was an incredibly successful act of lifeboating. Yes.

Like when Showtime basically ceased to exist, a lot of the shows, a lot of the properties, a lot of the projects and development desperately wanted out. Yeah. And not many,

they were not all as lucky as Ripley to go to, what is de facto the biggest streaming service. Yeah, and it's been, Ripley was like, there's a couple of things on Netflix's slate where you'll get like a two years out, heads up that it's happening.

And then it's just, they are a little bit opaque when it comes to communicating long-term release dates for things. So Ripley, premiered the entire eight episode, I believe, run of it, went up this weekend, obviously.

The first two episodes of Sugar went up on Thursday or Friday. We'll be talking, about the first two episodes for each. So there's spoiler turk going forwards. Can we start with Ripley? Well, yes, I just want to say, since you were doing such a nice job linking them,

I want to say that I have rarely since, since Granlan ended in 2015, I have rarely wanted to be a working, sitting at my laptop TV critic again. Yeah. This was one of those weekends where I was into it because both of these shows love them, hate them, like them,

like them, whatever, have so much style. Oh, yeah. And I was so taken by that. I had such a pleasurable experience, which we'll talk about. It may have been addled by altitude, which I think is important part of this conversation. But I was... Hawaii is on the top of a mountain. That's right.

I've been very, very high, to coin a phrase. I was really, really taken by both of these shows. Visually, aesthetically, and excited by them both, obviously. We've been talking about both of these shows for a while. If there are things that are in our wheelhouse, it's certainly this. Sugar is about a private detective in Los Angeles working for a film producer to find this said film producer, played by James Cromwell's granddaughter, an ex-addict who has disappeared from the L.A. underworld. Played by Sidney Chandler, daughter of. Kyle Chandler?

And she's the star of the upcoming Alien Show. Is she really? Mm-hmm. Yeah, God damn. Noah Holly's upcoming Alien show for a place. And then Ripley. Andrew Scott plays, this is the budget based on the Patricia Highsmith novel. I had thought that the original idea for this was that like Steve Zalian, who wrote and directed

Ripley might be adapting multiple Ripley novels. Who knows, maybe if that's in play for Netflix? That was definitely, I believe, part of the package that Zalian would tackle all of the Patricia Highsmith novels, which have been brought to the screen many times with varying levels of success. I think most people's touch point for this is Anthony McGill is talented Mr. Ripley. It is. Which I want to talk to you about a little bit.

I will forever ride for Vim Vendors, The American Friend, where Dennis Hopper plays Ripley. There's also Purple Noon, with Alande Dilan, plays Ripley. Nice pronunciation. Merci. Yeah. Just you put a little bit of Dijon on that. Just a little.

Yeah. Just a little. I used a small knife. No, I'm not going to do it. And John Malkovich played Ripley in a more recent movie, I think. And he's in the series as well. Yes. Anyway, I think the promise.

us would be in TV to treat them all like one. That was a very good idea in 2019. It's a great point. It's a great point. That was a very good idea in 2019 and a very good idea of you and I had our own vineyard in Napa. And we were just like, who wants to make a series? For real.

Yeah. That said, you could. Like, I want to live in that world. Do you know how many vineyards you could buy with the production budget for this show? Let's get into Ripley first. Yeah. Let's talk about Ripley. this show is fucking mind-blowing.

I don't want to like operate in response to like critical sentiment or like public discourse. I can't believe how little like fanfare this has gotten over the weekend. Like I let me sound the loudest trumpet that I think this might be the most exquisite looking thing I've ever seen on television and I know exactly how I sound. Robert Ellswit who has shot all of PTAs or most of PTA's movies, I believe, I think all of them, and also Michael Clayton.

Good Night and Good Luck, which shot, he shot from George Clooney in Black and White. Shot this adaptation for Zalian in Black and White. You will be hard pressed to see a more gorgeous piece of cinematography. This year, I am in awe of this show. I am in awe of its writing, acting, production design, locations. The cinematography, obviously, I think it is astonishing. And we've watched, we've both watched two. Just two.

I'm just, but I'm saying like, I don't do this. You and I both watched the first two episodes multiple times. Yes. That's fucking crazy. I usually don't watch like Friday night lights multiple times. No, I don't watch anything multiple times, let alone take such deep pleasure in watching it again. I was at a Lakers game last night and my wife was sending me like screenshots because she

was catching up with me like, and she was like, you know, sent me a picture of the cat from the beginning of the first episode. And she was like, look at this fucking guy. But it's just like I actually looked at the picture the screenshot of the cat from the first episode I was like, A, great cat acting. Big beard on that cat. Big beard.

And two, like, Bobby Ellswood is just shooting the shit out of that cat. This is capital F filmmaking. And I would like to personally apologize to Sam Smail and to the laundry that is unfolded in my home. I got to say, between this and Shogun I have unfolded a single piece of laundry. I just have stacks and stacks. I am wrinkled and happy. This show is so gorgeous.

And I just want to pause and say, one of the reasons I rewatched it again was not just to take in how beautiful it was, but to absolutely just ogle and drop my jaw at how much went into it. I don't want to presume budget, although it's clearly very high. It's very, very hard to shoot anything in New York City.

It's very, very hard to shoot anything to anywhere. He found like the five places in New York that you could point a camera that doesn't have a vape store in the background. It's very, very hard to shoot internationally often because, and we talked about this a little bit with Francesca when we were talking to her about Mr. and Mrs. Smith, only because

you were going to be working with a very often a local crew and there may be language barriers. You may not have worked, you know, there may be the American contingent or British contingent depending may not have worked with this crew before. You know, who knows? To pull this off to the degree that they pulled it off, So much of this show's language, storytelling language, is insert shots.

You know, just so much of it is through folly and sound work, like the drawers of the desk in the beginning, the scrapes of the beautiful pens. The construction of this show, not just in Zalian's mind and not just in his laptop, but in the editing room, when they had all of the, clearly they had the material. Honestly, I don't know whether this is page for page from High Smith. I've actually not read the novels. Have you? I know. I don't know whether he's taking this page for page and description for description from her books

or if he is fully imagined 1961 New York City and Italy. But it is, it's mind-blowing. It's like, you're right. The first episode is almost silent. Like, it's largely Andrew Scott's Ripley moving through New York City, basically an outcast from society

running small-time cons and mail fraud scams. and gets plucked out of obscurity, although I'm sure, you know, like that'll become more richly observed by Bocheme Woodbine's private detective character. That scene is so good. Okay, let me just fucking tell you this. Bocheme Woodbine plays a private detective

who brings Andrew Scott to go meet Kenneth Launergan, rich shipbuilder. That's Kenny Launergan? Yeah. God, he's good. He's so good. He's amazing in that scene. And the other thing that I appreciated, especially in the second viewing of the show, is the show has real wit to go with its style.

Oh, my God, dude. The show has jokes. The show, and we haven't even talked about Andrew Scott yet, but there is a, there was a, there were so many beautiful aesthetic decisions made throughout this entire project. But one of them was, it's not just that it's alienist like Bobby Ells would, like, just go on full tilt. You know what I mean? I apologize to Robert Eltsman. He does not like being called me. We don't know.

Maybe in Italy he does. It's that when he was directing the actors, he clearly communicated to them the way the margins of the performance he wanted them to give and how to contain yourself within them. There is an element to the performance style in this that reminds me a little bit of Wes Anderson. Interesting. There is a clipped talking on the surface of things. and it takes it full advantage of something

that Wes Anderson does constantly that I find always funny and always interesting which is when characters say okay to questions to which okay is not really an appropriate answer like when Herbert Greenleaf is like you are my friend Richard Greenleaf's son and it just got like blinks twice and says okay it's so low-key funny

and so studied and so careful okay tell me if I'm overreacting but is the scene in the first episode when Andrew Scott thinks someone is watching him from the opposite subway car, the most beautiful thing you've ever seen in your life. I think it's one of the most

jaw-dropping things I've ever seen on television. The recreation, first of all, of early 1960s New York City Subways, which thank you for preserving that forever on Netflix, is beautiful anyway with the ceiling fans on its top of the cars. Everyone's faces. Everybody's faces. And then there's basically, as Tom Ripley,

is starting to feel the sort of the jaws of justice clench around him a little bit in New York City because he's been running these scams and there's been an eternal revenue agent stopped by his SRO to see if he's around and it just seems like things are going a little bit off for him. He's on a subway one day going down to the Lower East Side to where he lives and he sees a guy staring at him

on the subway car riding the tracks parallel to his. Yeah, one's on the express, one's on the local. If you've ridden New York City Subways, there is that point where you can kind of see somebody on the other opposite side. And then the track split apart and there's this sensation of them like flying off into another dimension for a second. And just to capture that a quintessential like weird New York experience, but to use that as a way into showing what Ripley's perception is and what his state of mind is is incredible because there is a little dialogue in this first episode. that you really do have to learn everything by keeping up with the character and keeping up with the behavior because there's not a lot of exposition going on. He's not stopping to be like,

this is the scam I'm pulling on this doctor and his clients by pretending to be a debt collection agent. No, everything is communicated. I mean, there's an economy. And this is incredible using that word when you're talking about a show as opulent, as Ripley. But there is an economy to the storytelling that is remarkable, particularly in that first episode,

that gives us an entire city, an entire era, an entire person, in an entire circumstance through filmed action, more or less. And when I say action, I don't mean like straight-finding. No, it's like man in a room by himself. And what is, how is the room dressed, how is his desk look, how does he shuffle through papers? What does that tell people on an intellectual and visceral level?

That's filmmaking. You know, like, that's where theater rises up into something else when it goes on a screen. And I don't understand, I mean, there are some shots. And again, when they get to Italy, especially, that are just so beautiful, you just want to pause and look at them, shots of the sea, shots of the looming, you know, the city, the town of Vitronic looming up over the ocean.

But again, it's not just throwing up postcards. You know, the image I can't get out of my head of the sea in the second episode is vertiginous because there's a recurring motif of drowning and of punishing dark waters and his dreams and his nightmares. And the camera is looking at the ocean and suddenly you're like, wait, what am I actually looking at? What's moving here? Am I moving or is it moving?

And you know, you said this at the beginning, and I agree with you. I don't think there's much value in responding to the chatter about something or straw newspaper conversations about something. But I was struck, too. Well, it just seemed like people are like, this is pretty good. It's just fine. And I'm like, what kind of world have we been living in where this is fine? Or people are like, this caviar bump is too small. Yeah.

I don't. Like something is a little bit broken. when this just gets shoveled into the Netflix algorithm, and we're like, yeah, it's okay. This is the best thing that I've seen on Netflix, like, probably since mine on her. And it's similarly... Go ahead.

No, it's funny, you said that, because I was trying to think of what Andrew Scott's Ripley voice reminded me of, and it reminds me of Groff in Mindana. I was thinking that. I finally figured out in the second episode. Scott's a really, really interesting Ripley. Like, I think he does a marvelous job.

This is obviously a role. He's very familiar with playing Hamlet, but playing roles with heavy crowns on the actor's head. But he is a beautiful look at, endlessly inventive with how he approaches scenes. You can see him thinking. You can also see him not thinking,

which is also in a way thinking. I love watching him move and address each scene even as like he gets caught in certain. circumstances, whether it's just like a social faux or trying to engage the mafia to become a smuggler. Like, it's just fantastic stuff. I think that, again, like, the way we talk about things is a little bit out of whack

and, like, often really reductive. Like, for example, when we sort of casually give actors a claim for performance, we often do it like, oh, that person really seemed sad in that circumstance. or that person really seemed aggrieved or angry. Like the loudest emotions in the room are what win the day or win the Oscars. Andrew Scott is giving a performance that is based almost entirely on the idea of being hungry. And he does it mostly with his eyes and with his reactions. And it is a masterclass.

And I'm glad that you brought up the Hamlet thing, too, because the one kind of bump that I had early on in the series, and it comes back up a few times, is he's so. too old for the part. He is 47 years old. Now, he was I mean, they filmed this a couple years ago, but he was too old then. Yeah. And I'm trying to lose. I think

that I'm, I feel liberated by the fact that honestly, I've never read the books. And it's been quite some time since I've seen Talbot and Mr. Ripley. So I'm kind of feeling like a little bit like, yes, I completely understand where you're coming from. Like, this is a man who's probably going on 50 and

and Ripley should be, what, late 20s? Late, yeah, because I think that, I mean, it's all there in the construction when Greenleaf is like, you have to see my son, he's too old for this, like you guys were friends at college, like he needs to live a more respectable life now and take on the mantle of whatever. But the reason I want to... Of building ships for Herbert Greenleaf's shipbuilding. That shot alone, I would listen to a podcast about it. Did they find a shipyard?

That boat that's half built. I know. It does not look like CGI to me. That's the thing I think because of the cinematography I don't know if any VFX are there I don't know if they're doing match shots or if they are doing

green screen and putting stuff in and it just looks seamless but there is a real mastery and skill to take the Italian the sort of placed by Naples Atrana right?

Atrani. Atrani. When Lonergan says that? Etrani. Oh God, he's good. the where they're staying. They do a lot of like people walking through the same areas. Like they'll basically like they have like the,

it's this incredible like sequence where Tom keeps having to go up and down the stairs to get to this villa and he'll go up. And it's so funny. And then he'll come back down and they'll be like, yeah, you got to go back up if you want to go to the hotel. Sue, Sue, Sue, Sue, Sue, Sue, Sue, so, sue. And they communicate how exhausting that must be by shooting him walking by these same steps over and over again.

Now, that may just be really crafty location scouting where they're like, we can shoot this location whenever we want as many times as we want with whatever kind of light we want. And, you know, we don't have to stop a tourist town from operating. But it's also, it's just visually so satisfying and so funny. I mean, it's the rule of threes and the stairs and it hits, you know. I just want to circle back to the thing about him being too old. I think that. Oh, sorry, yeah. No, but there's just a reason why.

people keep wanting to make these books or make versions of these stories in multiple languages and multiple eras for different mediums. I mean, we could do worse than have Tom Ripley be a generational hamlet, like that people just take on the role and give something different to it. And Andrew Scott has famously played one of the great hamlets. I've never seen it, but people have taught, you know, actually, I have seen it. It's pretty good, right? I didn't see it live. You've talked about this before. I'm not allowed to say it. Yes, I have a file of him. is going to come out to get you, like, is that the problem? I'm the one.

Uh-huh. Okay. Yeah. Anyway, this is... Should I put out a J-Cole apology for downloading an illegal file of Andrew Scott's Hamlet? I want to see a shaky YouTube... Andrew Scott, I got my whole chin out.

This is the corneous thing I've ever done. I haven't been sleeping, dog. No, it was a sign that he used to... He was sleeping well, he said. Yeah. You want Andrew Scott to come at you? Yeah. You'll take it.

Anyway, it ultimately doesn't matter, and there's also a lot of clever casting around it to make everyone seem roughly the same age because Johnny Flynn, who plays Dickie Greenleaf, is 40. They aged everyone up in a way that feels appropriate. Johnny Flynn is also great. So I think that my, again,

I've only seen two. We'll see where it goes. I thought the Johnny Flynn really grew on me. At first I was a little unsure, because, you know, and this is also where we can bring in the Anthony McGillow movie, because this is the part played by Jude Law when he was at the apex of his human godliness of beauty,

which changes the perception of the part. You don't think young pope was his apex of human godliness and beauty? Well, for me it was, but I think for the vast majority of... Actually, I thought his Cree warlord in Captain Marvel was when he was at his best. Yeah. He's really grown on me because the way he holds stillness and he holds the frame and he also has a very...

He also looks like a guy from that era? This is what I was going to say. He has a really interesting face. And one of the things that's interesting about it tells you more of a story, which gives you, again, more insight into how much thought went into this, which is to say he has these scars on his face.

And you're like, well, what is this idle playboy having... And you're like, oh, no, he's the second generation of money, or first generation, really, in this family, right? You see Lonnergan, and he's walking the shipyards, and then you see him on Park Avenue. Avenue. And my takeaway from that, because again, this is a story that's being given to us, not by, without being told, is that he built this company. It's his name's on the door, but he started building ships himself. So his son is the first person in the Greenlee family to just be

able to do whatever he wants. He's a little rough, but he's fitting into these linen suits. And like, that's telling us something to the same way that in that incredible first arrival into a tronnie with this terrifying bus and Tom is trying to look through the phrase book, if you Pause it, which I did frequently when watching the show. Do you know what page he's turned to at that moment? I am lost. They thought about it. Just thought in everything.

I actually, when I was watching last night, I was skipping through the second episode again. I hit pause and it paused literally on a caravaggio. And it looked like a frame of this show. Like, I don't know how many compliments I can pay it. But as a purely central experience, it is second to none of it. anything I've seen this year or in quite some time. But even as also, and we haven't really said Steve Zalian's name very often here, Steve Zalian is in my mind sort of part of this rush more of, of contemporary American screen

writers like Scott Frank and Tony Gilroy, who have obviously done a lot of script doctoring, but also have written some really powerful and amazing originals. And he's won Oscars as well. He's won Oscars. And, you know, he was very involved with, I mean, essentially, co-did the night of with Richard Price but I had no idea I did not know you had this in your game sir

like this is this is like really masterful directing and it's it's very exciting it is really interesting to see that generation of screenwriters be like to quote Major League fuck you Joe Boo I'll do it myself I know tour now yeah and pour themselves into it and you know whether this is an act of whether he is himself like a visionary

autore or he is just an incredibly focused and studied autort who knew exactly what he wanted to execute and thought about it. It doesn't matter. It's incredibly successful. I did want to ask you because I remember seeing talented Mr. Ripley in the theaters. It came out like Christmas 90, was that 98, 99?

Yeah, 99. And I liked it a lot. And I remember liking Jude Law I mean, all the performances. Philseymour Hoffman is unreal, as he was in just about everything. I don't remember holding it in the highest esteem as, like, a masterpiece. I think a lot of that had to do with the fact that I love Matt Damon, but I think that he was slightly miscast in it.

I think he gave his, it's an incredible performance by him. But it didn't flow for me in a way. So I'm already predisposed to like this more because I like Andrew Scott's version of it and is just inhabiting of it. Do you have a relationship with that movie? I do. I have a relationship with it and so much as like I like it very much. I think I've seen it two times, three times since when it came out.

It was Highsmith and this story were not like regular rotation text for me. And that film probably suffered because of it. And like all I mean by to say that is that there are things from that era that I have watched like 110 times like Fight Club or something. And I just haven't watched

Talented Mystery. That many times. I forget Kate Blanchett is in that. Yeah, and I think I've watched it. Like, I'll watch scenes on YouTube sometimes. Like, I'll watch Hoffman on YouTube in that, and he's fucking goaded in that movie. But, yeah, like, I'm very curious to kind of

maybe become a Highsmith head in my late 40s because this is definitely giving me that feeling. And honestly, there is a itch that this is scratching of deeply unpleasant people in deeply pleasurable places that we basically haven't had since. succession. Yeah, that's a good point.

I don't know if you would characterize Marge and Dickie and, you know, Freddie. Everybody is unpleasant. Yeah, but there's something, it's not that they're unpleasant, but like the show. Unhappy? I don't know. The show has teeth in that I don't know. I don't remember seeing something that is so recently that is as unsentimental about the limitations of its characters as this show is.

And what I mean by that is, like, Dickie's paintings are all. awful, almost to an absurd degree. Yeah. And her writing is bad. The camera lingers on it. And her writing is terrible. And we hear it. You know, and they're diluting themselves with money and sunshine and, you know,

endless bottles of Lambrucco. And I kind of love that. I love that the show is, or the whole project. I mean, the book, certainly, that was the spirit of Highsmith and everything she wrote. But, like, it doesn't shy away from that. Yeah. it's it's really good i i let's keep talking about it yeah because i want to talk i think we can do one or two at a time the way we kind of usually do netflix shows i'm sure um people will burn through it

i mean um even today like my wife is just like i wish i could just like stay home and watch rippley all day and i'm curious about dakota fandings performance because that it's not i don't have a i don't have a take yeah but and she has more to do um i do have some takes on on sugar should we get to that. The playoffs are here, and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul Predicts. Follow all the playoff dishes, swishes, wishes, wishes, and misses. Predict the spread, the total points, and even the game winner. Sign up for Fandual Predicts and predict it from the couch. Offered by Fandual Prediction Markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant. 18 plus. Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be

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cash rewards on purchases. Say it with me, the active cash credit card from Wells Fargo, be a 2%er. learn more at Wells Fargo.com forward slash active cash terms apply. Set it up. Okay, so I think long-time listeners of the podcast know that I used to watch

movies only on airplanes and I had very strong reactions to the movies and I think this has been borne out not just by my experience, but you've talked about it. You know, that at a certain altitude with a certain number of complimentary Heineken's in the body, content hits different. This just happened with me with Manchester by the sea.

You watched that on a lot. an airplane. I can't believe you're still standing. When we didn't have to do rewatchables, I had watched it, but then I was like, I have two hours, so I'm just going to go back through it. And I, you know, got to some key, crucial moments. My roommate might have been like,

what's up at you? Is you okay, buddy? Yeah. I mean, I had some, I had some interesting evidence introduced on my flight out where I was listening to music and I have like a playlist going of like my favorite songs of the year, so I was listening to that. And then I reached, I like to start my curation early.

And I got to the end, you know, and it's just like other songs for this playlist. And I was like, okay, Algo. Like, what do you got for me? Uh-huh. And by the end of the flight, I was like an idols fan. Yeah, it happens. And then I was on vacation. I'm an idols fan.

I went for a run. I was listening to this song and I was like, I can't wait. I saved this. This song was like a mind grape, gently being squeezed in Joe Blanton's winery. And I was like, it's fine. It's fine. So there definitely was some altitude stuff. But all this is to say, and also, I never get to watch anything that I intend to on airplanes because the iPads belong to the children.

Now, I was flying an airline, no free ads, but it's one that goes to Hawaii, run by Hawaii. And they seem to be the only airline. They seem to be the only airline that has... Did you fly a Boeing, by the way? I don't even look. I trust them. I trust them. That's good. I think that they're hiring practices. Everything's good. What's wrong with shareholder value, right?

It's fine. They, in order to differentiate themselves from the competition and from the fact that you have to basically walk to El Segundo to get to their gate at LAX, they have partnered with an up-and-coming businessman named Elon Musk, who has a satellite, I'm told, and offers Wi-Fi service for free on this airplane. That's cool. And, Chris, I've never had service like this. I know I'm like the Louis C.K. joke, but I was like, oh, my God, look at the download speeds.

You could do anything. Yeah. You know, it was pointed out to me. You download Andrew Scott's Hamlet. It was pointed out to me that, you know, this is the same satellite that Mr. Musk apparently has shut off in Ukraine. Just because, you know, he doesn't want to be abused of, like, being on any side of anything. And I was like, yeah, but do you see this frame rate? So, anyway, I could watch stuff on my phone.

Yes. And I watched first episode of Ripley. And that's why I did, I had check. I had to watch it off. You suggested, again, texting. We were just texting back and forth over the Pacific Ocean. You were like, I dare you to throw on an episode of Obi-Wan. Just to see.

Just to see. Just to A-B-tested. Yeah. But I did watch the first two episodes of sugar, and I fucking loved him. Yeah. I re-watched, and I had a little more nuance to my take. I can't believe how well-prepared you are for this podcast. And we haven't even talked.

Last week, we were like, Top Chef Monday. No, I knew we were going to do this. I knew we were going to do this. I just wasn't sure how. much you were going to be able to get done. Well, I think this is going to be interesting because I think that I am generally more positive about this than you are. Yes.

So for folks who don't know, this is a series, as I mentioned, it's written, created, or the first few episodes were written in it. It's created by Mark Protasavich, who is a pretty acclaimed, like, accomplished screenwriter. He did the old boy remake that Spike Lee made. He has worked on, I think he did I Am Legend. Yeah. He's like a blockbuster or screenwriter. Like he's very, very accomplished. This was like I said, a hot property.

It was directed by Fernando Morellis, whose credits include City of God and Constant Gardner and is an awesome director. It stars Colin Farrell, which is probably collectively me and Andy's favorite working actor. Yes, I'm going to say this again. And it is set in Los Angeles. It is a very self-consciously knowing meta-referential noir detective

story set in contemporary LA, but completely powered and layered with references explicitly like cutaways to some of the great film noirs of the 1940s and 50s. It's almost like bordering on HBO's dream on.

Honestly, I was trying to figure out what it was and it is not. All right. There's kind of two layers to this. Okay. We can talk about the show based on the two episodes that have come out.

Then there is, I mentioned sort of the critical response to Ripley. There is an element to the critical, I think I'm going to save this part for later. Okay. So we can just talk about the show, the first two episodes, we can do the textual reading of it. You enjoy this show. Well, I think you wanted to say, which I think is worth saying, is that it's impossible to engage with the show without both being able to tell from the content. Yeah. And from the very vague, intentionally vague, writing about the show that's come out in advance of it.

it that there is a twist. And we will, at the end of this part of the conversation, we can make some guesses, talk about how we feel about it. I do not know. I do not want to know until it's time. But it is interesting and very much feels like something from the last few years to talk about something, have an opinion about something that we do not fully know the scope of.

With all of that said, here's my... It's a very strange thing because I don't really know how they would promote the show otherwise. Yeah. These episodes get made available to... critics. Critics are now I guess six weeks ahead of people or whatever it is. They made them all available. We did not. I have only watched

the first two because that's what everybody was going to watch. But like the critical response is like dot dot dot, dot. You know, in their they talk about like the nature of this twist. So just taking the show as the show and the first two episodes, what did you think? Well, I said already, I thought it had

incredible style. I think it's beautiful to look at. I think that Morellas directs the shit of it, sometimes maybe almost over directs in terms of camera movement. He's got a lot of ideas, yeah. But I enjoyed it. I enjoyed the swings. I think that I need to frame my response to the show this way, which is, I love Colin Farrell so much. He is, if not my number one favorite actor to watch. He's in my top five. I love private detective stories so much. And I love noir and I love them noir set in Los Angeles. The opportunity to see my favorite actor do my favorite thing is,

I can't put a price on it. I take such pleasure in this performance and particularly in the fact that whether it's Morellis, whether it's Proto-Sevich, or whether it's Colin Farrell himself, who's a producer on the show, this project understands something about him. But I think now more directors are realizing,

but I feel like for a long time was misunderstood or also just kind of obscured maybe by the tabloid nature of the first part of Colin Farrell's career, which is that he is a giant sheepdog sweetheart who kind of looked like like a movie star for a while and was being a bad boy in real life. The fact that he is playing this

part as someone who is maybe oddly so, oddly so kind, you know, so deeply humanist, wants to help everyone, you know, shakes the hands of unhoused people and rescues their dogs. Like, there's a version of some of that dialogue that if you were just reading on paper, you'd be like, this is corny. Mixed into the larger stew here, I found it really compelling and almost moving because of the way he's performing it. And the way he fills out that suit and drives that car and just moves through the world and with his sort of, with his sad, romantic eyes, take me away. Okay. Drive me away. But you said that you watched it the first time you were like, this is, this is my favorite thing.

Well, a couple things. Like I definitely, watching the first two was good because there's just more of it in the, the first episode ends with a very provocative, almost inscrutable, freak. out, right, where he starts bleeding. The voiceover starts getting blurry. He goes into the shower. His reality diverges from the mirror reality for a moment, and then he injects himself in the neck, and you're deep into, is he a replicant? Is this Westworld?

Is he an alien vampire, werewolf, what is going on here? Yeah. Territory. The second episode, he's a PI again and a good one. And that- The second episode is also only, like, 40 minutes. Which I thought was interesting. And then I noticed upcoming episodes are down to, like, 30.

36, 34, that could be one of two things. That could mean they just had the freedom to make whatever show they felt like making, or they just started cutting because things weren't working. I don't know. So here's my... But when it found its footing again, you know, it reminded me of when you've talked about shows about special forces people who have English accents, and now you're just going to watch them, like, no matter what.

This is my that. Good, okay. And it wasn't just because it's referencing, you know, Chinatown and LA Confidential. There was an element of a completely not remembered and probably unloved miniseries called Wild Palms. Do you remember that? Of course. It was a Bruce Wagner comic strip that was in details that became an ABC show briefly off the back of like, people like weird. It was like Twin Peaks.

Yeah. But it starred Jim Belushi. And but I was like, whoa, this is a whole thing. It was an LA thing. It was so stylized. So there's an element of that to this too, where I'm just like, let's hang out here. I think this show's too cute. So I...

So you asked me what I felt the second time. I think I'm going to agree with you, too. Okay. So I think this... First of all, I think that there's probably like a couple of different shows happening inside of this thing. But because of the show's desire to obscure certain information from the viewer, while also being somewhat omniscient at times. So one of the times where it really broke my brain,

I've brought this up before when we talk about mystery shows or detective shows or whatever about the sort of the invisible line for where the audience is aware of something that the characters are not aware of or whether the characters are aware of something that the audience is not aware of. One is ahead of the other.

And that's something that dominates writers' rooms. And I think you can be successful. either way, but I don't like it when it's both. So, so far in this series, you've got these two episodes. It's largely about this missing girl, but quickly becomes, I thought, somewhat sloppily about another, a murdered woman who may have a connection to this missing granddaughter Olivia, right? Like, there's like this additional mystery that's now on top of a mystery.

Yep. And there's two things happening. One is Colin Farrell's character is having conversations with Kirby's character where they are clearly... And I didn't know Kirby Howell Baptiste has dropped her surname. Yes. And it's now Kirby. Yes. And they are having this deep conversation, which is obviously about the truth of Sugar's character, John Sugar's character.

Then, strangely, the show breaks the sort of like invisible line and we'll jump into parts of the people that Sugar is pursuing. So the Segal family, which is this sort of Hollywood family, the grandfather is played by James Cromwell, Dennis Bitzikaris plays the father, and then the son is played by Nate Cordry. And these guys are all working producers or actors. They've been on, they've seen better times, but they're still quite rich. Yeah, and it's also the sort of the family tree gets more degenerate, the further you get from the trunk. And they do have, like, in this show, they basically do like a, a scene where we get like insight into what they're up to and like what the what like how they're

trying to basically like run sugar around in circles and figure out who he is and why is he getting invited to some party and all this stuff. And I was like this is just going too many different directions and that felt like the show is essentially like a magic trick and that to me spoke of like a lack of confidence in the magic. It's because you're like we have to show that there's this story going on. Then there's like a very strange ending to the second episode. That's what. That's I wanted to agree with you about more than anything. Because suddenly the second episode ends, suddenly we're picking up with a woman we've never seen with kids we don't know,

walking into a room for a... All of which he's deduced from following the GPS information from the girl... But he's not there. No. And in the room, instead is Eric Lang, who has made an interesting career pivot from... It's almost like he was like this... He's a very talented character actor who was sort of a nebishy background character

on the bridge who was revealed... as the villain. Right. And then since then, he's just made this wild turn. He's just like, I guess I'm a villain now. He's just a CIA badass

on Narcos for multiple seasons. Yeah. It's really been a successful turn for him. But anyway, he's in there, and he's menacing and he's violent, and we understand eventually the connection to the case,

but not to these people. And I completely agree with you that that is one too many cards to put down, especially because there was a real, I thought, artfulness to the obscurity in the beginning. you know, the opening sequence, which is in Japan, is beautifully shot, is very intriguing, and ends with an ellipses, where he shares a look with someone who is then referred to later as

one of ours or one of us, but not referred to again. I'm sure that will come back. Similarly, the drive-in from L.A., where he speaks, where Sugar speaks fluent Arabic, we haven't talked about that he speaks every language. And the party he's invited to is the polyglot society, so there's something to do with that. But he also, he also speaks to speak in Arabic. But he also can drink forever and not get drunk. Anyway, that scene, when he's driving in with Munzer, his Syrian driver, I liked that there was an ellipsies built into that scene because we find out after he's talking to Kirby that he has already stopped once and we didn't see it. That type of elliptical storytelling I like. It's when it becomes a MDash storytelling where it's like, oh, and also

over here that it starts to lose me. And, you know, again, this is, is this podcast brain, is this TV critic brain, or is this just where we're at in our defensive crouch against the tsunami of content, that we are hunting for signs of distress in the production. And I don't mean to accuse you of that because I agree with you. I just said it too about there are little things. Like, why is one episode 59 and 136? Why is Mark Protasevic the credited writer of all of the first few episodes? And then the last three are co-written by Sam Catlin, who is under an Apple overall for running severance. And did Preacher, right?

And did Preacher before that had worked on Breaking Bad and Saul. Like, that could be that Mark Protosevic got busy, or he handed off the scripts, or it could be that Apple was like, you come here now. We don't know. And it could still result in a good show, but it's interesting to consider the fault lines that we have to deal with now when we're looking at things of a 360-degree way. You know how you were mentioning that, like, if you get Colin Farrell playing a private detective that's deeply referential to other private detective works,

like you're just basically that you've seen some ticked. it doesn't matter. I think I do, but I think I hold it to a very high standard because I've watched this stuff and read this stuff

for so much of my life. I have a pretty high standard of it because in my mind, I know what contemporary Los Angeles looks like. I know what a detective story in Los Angeles

can be. So when stuff feels just kind of like, okay, so this guy's never in traffic? Like, I guess that's the world. He's in, that's fine. Or like, everybody,

seems just kind of like an MPC who wears like a solid colored t-shirt. And that's, I'll say, compare that to Ripley where every single element of every single performer, every single cup and every single pen is dialed.

And I don't know that one costs more than the other. Like, I'm not sure. So to me, it's like, I think that's what I bang my head up against. It's like, I'm going to be pretty judgmental when it comes to this stuff because it's stuff that I really care about. I agree with you.

Which sounds incredibly nerdy to be like... No, no, no, I agree with you. I also think that we're coming from similarly... I mean, again, I'm more open-hearted to the show than you are, but it is a similar, you know, small-sea conservative point of view here, which is we love this stuff so much, and you could do it without him also being a robot vampire.

Yeah. So should we talk about what we think the twist could be? But do you know what I mean? Like, why not do a contemporary LA noir? Because I think... It is very, very, very, again, 2019 Hollywood brain that is just like a screenwriter who probably conceived of this as a feature first

was like you can't get this made unless there's a giant twist and Apple is like we won't make this unless there's a giant twist and a giant star and so then you work backwards from there

this twist that we're about to speculate on could be amazing and could be well worth it and could re contextualize our feelings about the whether they're failings or not of the noir framework but I think that we had

we started from a similar place and then watch it with slightly different attitudes. I'm going to keep watching. Also, the fact that the episodes are relatively short makes it a much easier task. I mean, just in terms of how much stuff is on my plate. But let's talk a little bit about what this show could maybe be about.

Because I don't know, I haven't really... All I see is the headlines. I haven't really read a ton about it. But obviously, this dude stares at the moon a lot and heals fast and needs to take a shot seemingly to be sedated at night. Yeah. So that would suggest some werewolfy kind of stuff.

I thought it was werewolfy. But then some of the stuff that Kirby says to him suggests like... But he's malfunctioning? Yeah. Or like you're an alien or something. Well, also he also seems like he's been programmed. You know, he's watched movies. Like he's learned about being a human from watching movies, which is a trope of some like sci-fi about androids or, you know, robot people.

Your boy, David and Prometheus. that is my guy. Do you include David and Prometheus when you talk about best depictions of basketball on screen? Yes. When he's just sinking three-fourths. He's sinking from the half-court line in a wheelchair.

Watching war in some of the Arabian and throwing fucking hook shots from the top of the key. That is one of the greatest opening sequences ever. And that's like the second opening sequence, right? After the big dude who's smooth like Ken doll drops the sauce into the water or drinks it or whatever? He's just Ken. Yeah.

We've talked about this before, but I only, only ever saw that movie once, and I saw it. I believe in the front row of the Cinerama dome. You were also so hung over. So ginned out. So hung over from a Grantland holiday party, I think. And Sean was like, great news. I got us tickets.

The front fucking row, Prometheus at 10 a.m. Anyway, yeah, so do you have a speculation on any of this? Does it matter? It matters. It matters. I think that it could be kind of a waste of time. It could be. I guess the thing that I can't get over is Colin Farrell.

And when he... You know what's corny? Like, just full-stop corny is when people who work in this industry, whether it's genuine or not, are like, I just love movies. I fucking love movies. I don't mean when Sean does it.

I just mean, like, when you say it as if that's like a get-out-a-jail-free card for whatever you do. And maybe there's a line to be connected from that sentiment to, you know, the Russo brothers being like, we remade the parallax view with Hydra agents and Winter Soldier. When Colin Farrell...

Happy 10-year anniversary, by the way. One of the greats. When Colin Farrell, as a robot vampire, private investigator, is like, I love the movies, and his eyes are as big as saucers. I'm like, goddamn, movies are great. He's so good, and I love that he loves. That is the choice that's bringing in. Did this robot not have to watch any Marvel movies?

Like, did he not get... He clearly has stopped watching content. He didn't have to watch the Marvels. Did you see the... Did you read the highlights from the Kirsten Dunst Press Tour? I'm fully... Like in the front row of Kirsten Dunst as a press store.

The Kiki Sants? Yeah. She's just like, no, I haven't seen any of the Marvel movies, but I did see Paw Patrol with my two-year-old. It's incredible. She's good stuff. Anyway, the simple choice, not just the fashion and the suits in the car,

but the simple choice of Colin Farrell being wide-eyed is sending me. I'm loving that, and I feel like I'm going to see it through. It's kind of like, this is your detective lasso. You just love kindness? That was your other AB test. You suggested I watch a Ted Lasso.

I was curious. I was in a vulnerable place, clearly. It's great to have you back. I think we can wrap up here and do Shogun and Top Chef with our next episode this week. Okay. Kai, are you going to put Top Chef in the title?

I feel like we should keep people hanging. I'm going to put it top chef this week maybe. Question mark. It's finally Kaya's birthday. It's like, no, we cover Top Chef like I celebrate Kaya's birthday. Is sugar a robot. Yeah. Have you watched?

Are you caught up on Top Chef, Kaya? No, actually, I think I didn't have a chance to watch. So you're welcome for your birthday present. Thank you. That's why we didn't. Very much appreciate it. Based on this conversation, do you think you would be more interested in Ripley or Sugar? Well, considering that I just started

very much Googling what the twist and sugar is, just so I can find out and just be done with it. Every review is like, there is a really twist, but then they can't say. I know. I don't understand why they did that. I thought they would be like embargo is, you can't say that there's a twist.

Yeah. But the show clearly, I mean, in the first episode, he's twitching his hand. Yeah, I was like, what the fuck is going on? Oh, do you think he had carpal tunnel? I do had that for a minute. Were you just feeling like... I got cured, though.

I have noticed you're not wearing your brace anymore. I got good posture now. Oh, I thought it was because you... I also have, like, sciatic pain in my back because I keep doing these insane fucking exercises. Stop being a blogger and started being a podcast. I will watch Ripley. I think that sounds good.

I love talented Mr. Ripley. I'll check it out. Okay. We have a great show of the year so far. We have two. Show gun and this are fucking... And Mr. Mrs. Smith for me. Yeah, I love Mr. Mrs. Smith too.

I want people to understand. I love Tokyo Vice. There's a drumbeat here that I'm not... That I am aware of and we will address, which is we did begin the year by being like the, the good times are over. Yeah, we're fucked. The industry is fucked.

And I want to be clear, we will take time to articulate why this is... You want to be clear that you love movies. I love movies. No, I know that I'm starting to sound like... Do you remember the sequence that opens season three of the leftovers with the cult in Australia and they keep getting up on the roof for the world to end? Yeah. And by the end, it's just the one woman because everyone is away.

Like, that is me being like, everything is ending in television. It's not the case. There's still some heaters. And we have, I mean, sympathizer is coming. There's a lot of interesting stuff. Yeah, industry's coming. H-O-T-D. What's that?

House of the Dragon. Fallout. I made a whole schedule for you. Fallout's coming out in like a week. Yeah. Have you checked it out yet? I haven't. All right.

So we're going to be busy. Kaya, thank you. Happy birthday. Happy birthday this and every week from your friends at the Watch podcast. Bye-bye.