The Watch - The Downside of Hype With Drake’s ‘Scorpion,’ Plus Reviewing ‘Sicario: Day of the Soldado’ | The Watch (Ep. 271)

Episode Date: July 2, 2018

The Ringer’s Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald discuss how the hype surrounding Drake’s ‘Scorpion’ affected the way they first listened to the album (09:55) before offering their (spoiler-heavy) thoughts on ‘Sicario: Day of the Soldado’ (20:55). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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See Associate for details. I need sports to have to clear the room. Stand up and walk now. Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at the ringer.com. And joining me in the studio, he can buy himself a hockey team. It's Andy Greenwald.

Hey, oh, so sorry, one second. I'm just watching Spain complete another pass. Wow, dazzling, dazzling footwork. Oh, what's up, man? How are you doing today? What a weekend, Chris. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What a weekend.

Andy, obviously, we are going to be talking about Sicario, the Day of the Soldado. Day of the Soldado. I can never remember if there's a the in there. I can remember how they, because I went through so many different titles. That's Doug from Marketing's fault. Yeah. We've been over this. For sure.

We're also going to do a little bit of the news at the top. It's a beautiful day in Los Angeles. LeBron James is coming. Mm-hmm. How are you doing? How is your weekend? I mean, World Cup, Agida. Why?

Because I just invested so much time in that stupid Spanish team. Did you? I thought you were a France fan. Oh, yeah, but I always like watching Spain play. You know that that's not how the World Cup works. But I can't. You can be like, I'm into Spain, France, and Mexico. Yeah, I can.

That's exactly how it works when your country isn't in it. No, you're supposed to be like, I cheer for Serbia and now I'm sad and I can't watch anymore. Well, no, my teams, Mexico and France are the teams that I like best consistently in the World Cup. Those are my teams. And now it's just France. Yeah. Okay. All right?

Yes, and Spain. Well, no, they're out. And also now I hate them forever for wasting my morning. Because it wasn't just that they played so infuriatingly and lost to Russia, who needs more L's, by the way. In general, Russia needs more Ls. It's that the extra time, like, the whole like, hey, I'm going to throw on a World Cup match in Los Angeles at 7 in the morning. Like, that can fly before people who, I don't know, maybe let's say your wife has had coffee yet. But then when it's two hours later and everyone in the house looks up and you're still watching this?

Well, that's the problem is that the great thing is you could always, with soccer, I mean, I know that it's still catching on here in the States to some extent. In year 26, you can really say this is a two-hour commitment. Yeah, if you're like, hey, there's a game on at 10, we can go to launch at 12. Yeah. But that's not the case in the World Cup, because so many teams do play for penalties, especially, you know, once we get into this point. So that was tough sledding.

I got up at 7 for France. I love that. It was a little bit of a heat check by me. Waking up that early? Yeah. I'm not like waking up that early, but waking up that early on a Saturday. Wow. And then being like, and now we have a full day ahead of us.

I wake up at 5.30 every day. I know, but I stay up late, you know, ingesting culture. That's true. And processing takes and producing them, which we should get to. Yes. This is not a sports podcast. Obviously, we're going to get to Soldado. That's the meat of the podcast.

I wanted to go over a couple of things. Big news this weekend, obviously, aside from LeBron coming to Los Angeles, aside from Zoldado being released. Two things. One, Scorpion was released on Thursday night 25 songs largely split between rap and R&B although I would say that they speak to one another

I don't think I love that. I don't think church and state were separated that hard. I love what you're saying. And I think it was largely greeted with shrugged shoulders. I'm assuming this kind of goes to a larger thing I want to talk about

throughout this podcast. All right. Is that I think that we, and when I say we I do definitely mean people who spend too much time on Twitter and people who probably spend too much time reading blogs, of which I am both and with which I'm one of the, like, you know, I'm the reason that happens or whatever. The finger points at you. But do you think that we're kind of in this weird cycle

of overanticipation and underwhelming? Is underwhelming a word? Well, I think you're right. I mean, I think that everything is being, is maximized and incentivized for, the Twitter debut and the Twitter hit and the big surprise release. I am not the gatekeeper of culture that I once was. Sure.

But I do feel like chatter over a Beyonce and Jay-Z album that came out, what, 10 days ago? Is gone. I don't hear people talking about it. I don't notice much conversation about it. They're like, ape shit's good. Yeah. This is otherwise a pretty cool but unmemorable record. Exercise and tour promotion for which it did its purpose.

So I agree. I think that when we talked about this the other week, that Drake, it's a smart move to build up anticipation, do the midnight release as we all do now on Spotify, but to deliver so much content that it almost demands a longer-term investigation of it. Unfortunately, this album is so punishingly dull that I think he may have shot himself in both feet here.

So with the exception of Black Panther, and maybe hereditary, I feel like those are the two things this year that were very hyped up and then had a moment upon release where it captured the imagination. And I felt like people were talking about it and breaking it down and pulling it back and forth. And then for a lot of these other things, whether it's the Kanye stuff, which I think was largely sort of weighed down, had concrete shoes on because of all the stuff that was happening outside the record.

And then when you actually got to the record, it was like, this just sounds like some eye. iPhone notes. You know, the Pusher record was great. It's my favorite record of the year, but I don't, I feel like what happened after that kind of took over the conversation. Right. I still go back to Daytona over and over and over again these weeks later.

And I was thinking about that for something like Greta Gourweig's Little Women, which is something. Wow. Look at you jumping around culture. Well, because this is almost wish fulfillment. You know, it's like, could I be happier about a group of people working together? than Greta Gerwig, Sorcerior Ronan, Timothy Shalame, and Merle Street. That's it.

And Emma Stone. And Emma Stone. That's a squad. You know, and people are really sick. I actually have never read the book. I remember the Winona Ryder, Claire Dane's movie from 25 years ago. Shut up. It makes me want to jump in a non-existent L.A. River.

But, like, this is going to now be like, everybody's going to be psyched about this. Everybody's going to be psyched about this. Is there a ceiling on little women? I don't know. That then when it comes out, people are going to be like, oh, that's. it's pretty, Greta Gerwig did Little Women, pretty good. There was a moment, actually, there was a rumor that it was actually a modernization of little women set in Sacramento, which sounds like, I guess, that was dispelled.

I like that idea more, frankly. I mean, this seems like a very cool package optimized to win the internet and to win culture as an announcement. You know, we will ride for anything that Greta Gerwig does culturally. Like, I'm excited for any movie that she makes. Obviously, you're not going to turn down a change. chance to do a project that clearly has meaning to her, either books or book and the movies, to work with people that are so exciting and to get a cast like that together.

But I would rather her do another original script, right? I mean, this is just sort of, it's so weird to say this, but it feels like this is her version of doing a Marvel movie. You know what I mean? I guess so. It's existing IP, you know? This is the world that we're in. It's the world Hollywood is always, the business Hollywood has always been.

so I'm not breaking ground here by suggesting it. I would be very surprised if coming off Lady Bird, Gerta Gerwig, had gone into meetings, and they were like, what do you want to do next? And she said, I have another chapter of my, of a Sacramento series that I want to do, or I have this idea, or I have that idea. And they were like, nah, nah, nah.

And she was like, what about little women? And they were like, yes, green light. You think that did or did not happen? I think that she chose to make little women. Well, yes. I think she also probably has another chapter in her Sacramento series, either queued up or saved to drafts. Like, like, yay.

Yeah. Look, I don't know. It's just, it's this feels, maybe it's because it's summertime. Maybe it's because the world is sliding into complete dystopia. But it's just weird to get, to live vicariously through tweets and press releases because I get an email today that says, Transformers is coming to Hall H at Comic-Con for the first time. I'm like trying to rack my brain to think of a context

where that would have any significance to me or other humans in the world. Like, what bar is that clearing? What artificially said bar is that clearing? Bumblebee is rolling into Hall H. That's a whole plank of culture. And then there's Greta Gourkewik doing little women. And none of these things are things, I guess, is what I'm...

Not yet. But when they become things, I'm wondering whether or not we fired all of our neurons in the lead-up, and then when something happens, the combination of everybody needing to have an opinion about it immediately, which is something that I would be curious to know how many things over the last few years, different critics have been like, you know, actually, after real consideration, I've decided that was dope, or that was actually terrible, and I was way too excited. I think it's way easier to be like, I'm somewhat let down or underwhelmed by this than it is to be like, I've gone all in on it, and now I feel foolish for doing so.

Are you foreshadowing the back half of this podcast? I wonder, and I actually would love some... So that's what I'm talking about with like Scorpion, right? Yeah. Well, I'd like some feedback from our listeners, either on the Facebook group or on Twitter about this. I wonder if that's one of the reasons why the rewatchables is such a pleasure for listeners.

And I'm not just shouting it out because you were on many of those episodes on the Ringar Podcast Network. But it feels fun and weirdly fresh to have something with meat on its bones. Well, it's also a deep text dive. You and I have been talking for seven minutes. We haven't actually talked about the Drake record. Right. Right, exactly.

Because what is there to say at this point? This stuff is dry-aged. You know, there's something there. Even when we talked about Sicario, the first one last week, it was fun to revisit it because it's had time to sink in. I mean, I think my feelings about the Drake record, do you want to have feelings with the record? Yeah, let's talk about it. I think it's boring AF. Really?

Yeah. I think that he's, I think that he is and always has been on some deep level of cornball. And I think he's particularly exposed as a cornball in this record because the punchlines aren't there. I wish there was a little more Quentin Miller up in his life. And it's just, it's less interesting to hear a 31 year old dude be like, the only people I trust are my mama. And I guess the only person I trust is my mama. You know, I'm like, really? Like you're 31 years old and you're still just, just screen calls except for your mom? Like, you got to, you were hiding a child, my man. I was particularly curious about elevate, because elevates the one where he's, he's going to

go to the aria in Vegas. Uh-huh. Have you done that? No, I've never been to the ARIA. I'm staying at Caesars for Summer League, and I've stayed at other hotels before that. With the Hotel Tonight app, I hope. Yeah, but... That one was for free. And he's like, Budgies got me up $100,000.

And I was trying to figure out whether or not Drake is, like, fronting dudes playing poker for him. Like Steve Albini? Yeah. By the way. I write that movie. Steve Albini movie? The Steve Albini poker movie where Drake is actually fronting him.

pretty amazing. It's pretty good. So there are some songs on here that I like. I like Summer Games. I like 8 out of 10. I like God's plan. I like elevate. I like survival and nonstop.

It starts out. I'm like, okay. Uh-huh. But then I kind of like petulant rap Drake. I can't believe we're having this conversation when you ended the conversation about it in the debate last week over text. Can you share the people? What did I say? What you said about how it's hard to listen to him after Pusha?

hollowed him out like a corn husk? No, you said, it's sort of hard to listen to Drake right now because Prussia hollowed this dude out like an apple bong. And I was like, okay, now I'm going to listen to this record with that in mind. And I agree with it. It kind of sounds like a guy. It sounds like the human version of someone who's been hollowed out as an apple bong. I agree.

That's my review, which is a quote, block quote from you. Okay. That's my review of the record. We still get along. So we touched on that. We touched on Little Women. Let's announce one other thing. We are starting in our own Little Women.

Let me start another thing. We are hiding a child. Glow also came out this weekend. Glow is a Netflix show that I have a lot of time for, and I'm very excited to have back. And we haven't done this in a minute, so I think that we'll just watch this sequentially, meaning we are going to watch the first three episodes

and talk about them for Thursday show. And we will finish off the season in a week or a week and a half. And we'll see how... Probably more like two weeks. See where that takes us. So maybe we'll remind people of that again. So Andy and I will be back on Thursday. Then we'll have probably a mailbag show for Monday.

So we'll send out the request for questions, but you can start tweeting it at the watch pod if you have questions. And then we'll do glow over the next few episodes, and we'll also talk about Sunday's succession for Thursday. So one other point before we get into the Sunday of the Soldado that I had. When we talked about Sicario on... Thursday. I was talking about how it really struck me what a small miracle this movie was, because it seemed to be a sterling example of a genre of adult film that just doesn't exist

or doesn't get released to theaters in the same way that it used to. And so I went to see at a Sunday of the Soldado, a solo Sunday of the Soldado last night. And I was really struck by the trailers. Because I'm so used to seeing Blockbusters to talk about them on the podcast that the movies that they found they basically cobbled together three releases that they thought might be relevant to our interests. Recommended if you like Solado. But again, it was like that, so the trailer was for this remake of Papillon with Charlie Hunnam and our guy, Rami Malik. And I'd like to talk about the substance of the trailer for a minute.

But I was basically like, what alternate earth is this where this is a major film that is on a big screen? It was so odd because Rami's second build in it and he's a, you know, a great actor and on the come-up. But then Charlie Hunnam has a face where I'm like, is that guy named Chris? And I think he's a good actor, but he just seems like another guy. Did you ever see Lost City of Z? No, I never did. But do you get what I'm saying? It was actually kind of nice to be briefly in this universe where that was a movie that was going to happen maybe as a cultural thing,

where White Boy Rick was the other trailer they ran, which is a really fun trailer for a crime movie with Matthew McConaughey and Brian Tyree Henry. A couple other people directed by Yandemange, who, oh, let's break news, is not directing my pilot Breyer Patch. but for very amicable reasons, and I've got a very exciting announcement to make soon about who is. But regardless, this movie looks like a lot of fun. And it looks like this weird, all this together looked like this dispatch

from an alternate universe where there are still grown-up movies being promoted in the summertime of America. Right. This Papillon thing, are we in on this? Because this premiered in Toronto last year is a remake of the Steve McQueen-Dustin-Hawth film.

Really like the Steve McQueen-Dustin-Hoff movie. That was, I think we talked about this, about when we were talking about Jaws, the double cassette movie that you would sometimes rent at video stores? By the way, that Jaws thing had more life than I expected. Why, what happened? Heads are coming for me.

Oh, really? That is, that was heretical. Because you yada yotted one of the five greatest things that's ever happened on a movie screen. I'm just saying I saw it and people are like, how dare he not have seen this more? Come on. You had a long time between Jaws and fatherhood.

So you think I can't believe it on that? That's what you're accountable for, yes. You know, we, We follow different paths in life. I just, you know, okay. I'm not proud of the fact that, like, I've seen poltergeist more times than Jaws. But that was a factor of the movies that people rented at sleepovers, right? So you were never the renter?

I was, boy, it's a really interesting, I was alone playing Halo. And then I went to other people's houses where other people were the renters. Also, are we, this is about me? Also, the movies that people rented from West Coast video or whatever for these sleepovers generally were R, right? Because, like, that's what you wanted to have. That's where the thrill is. That's where the thrill is.

I wasn't going to get in trouble. Rented R-rated film. But also, I wasn't, like, my parents were not like, let's go get you Kentucky Fried movie. We heard you had a good time watching it at Phillips House. My parents weren't like that, but we somehow... You got it done. We got it done.

Everyone had the friend whose parents were like that. Yeah. Or the older brother. And then maybe stuck around watching it with you guys a little too long. It didn't have to be West Coast video. It could have just been the mom and pop place where they were just like Kentucky Fried movie, huh? Sounds like chicken.

Yeah. I bet it's great. Okay, go back to your double feature. No, I didn't have a Papillon take. That's interesting. It's funny to think about the algorithm that they use for Soldado of what would people want to see before they see Dave of the Soldado? Yeah.

I think it's more like crossfit training. They'd like to hug their parents. But yeah, the Papillon movie looks, I love a jailbreak movie. So I'll definitely be pretty excited for that. I thought that the trailer seemed like it also had a little bit of wit. Like it seemed entertaining in a way that I appreciated. But also it's very surreal because I did a, when I did a Mr. Robot, event like over a year ago and I saw Rami for the first time in a while I'm like how are he he was

like I'm good I was like what do you've been up to he's like I was just in Belgrade naked in a prison for four weeks with Charlie Hunnam and I was like and then did you do a movie um but it's just very weird that like an experience that was for him a strange summer is now two years later it looks very good yeah I'm excited for it when's it coming out uh August okay the time when all great adult films are released and with the full confidence of the marketplace um all right we're to take a quick break and when we come back, we'll talk about Sicario Day of the Soldado. Yes, we will. Today's episode of the watch is brought to you by the Black Tucks.

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Get the Hotel Tonight app now to start scoring amazing deals at incredible hotels. That's Hotel Tonight, the only booking app you need. All right, we are back, and this one's been a long time coming. I guess it's been about a year and a half coming. It's not like we've been waiting her entire lives. I have, in a way, yes. You know, I have already seen the movie, but when we talked about this last Friday,

So I feel like I want to start with you. Wow. It might be, you have not told me how you feel about the movie. No. So why don't you just take it from there? Should we? I mean, I guess I want to start here. This podcast is free, right, for people?

Yeah. So we don't owe anyone their money back. We're like, like just just. Oh, for having to see the movie? Just generally an apology. I can see where this is going. You know, I thought this movie was generally disgraceful. I actually didn't want to start because I'm curious

what you found defensible in this movie because it wasn't just, legitimately. Legitimately, this is a bad movie, is what I mean. And I don't mean it because I'm on like a moral high horse, which, by the way, I'm very comfortable riding on, and I will ride on that horse all the way down to Nogales. It doesn't matter. Okay.

I just thought this was just a physically, like a visually ugly mess of a movie that had no point of view and no opinion about much of any. And that shocked me, considering some of the raw material there. And also the fact that I was prepared for it to be maybe something that I didn't love in the same way, but for it to have taken one thread that was worth taking from the first movie. In fact, it felt like a completely different, completely different strain of DNA. I thought, I wish this podcast was on camera. Because Chris is looking at me like I'm hiding a child.

He is looking at me. Like I am I'm not like Keep going It's it's I'm not gonna be like anybody There's not a Sildato purity test here I recognize that this is a If it's not an acquired taste

It might actually be inedible Let me let me say that it made me appreciate Even more The Marvel of the first movie Because what I'll say is this Is that Dini Villeneuve Who directed the first film It really made me appreciate

What a director with vision can do Because every image on the screen In that film was considered And what surprised me about this was that Salima, who directed it, I don't know what he was interested in other than the moments of extreme gun violence, because think about, I think I mentioned this last week. There is a moment when Daniel Kaluya and Emily Blunt are meeting with Victor Garber in the first film, and they're in an Anodyne conference room somewhere in Arizona. And it somehow looks boring,

but exactly right for that scene. And you contrast that with this darkly lit scene in the Department of Defense full of just like actors straight out of central casting with Matthew Modine with his desk on the corner. And I'm like, none of this is right. Similarly, Josh Brolin, the first movie, by the way, Brolin and Del Toro are the villains of the first film. They're the antagonists. There's the villains of this movie, too.

Are they? Yeah. Well, okay, we'll come back to that. Brolin in the first movie, with his shaggy hair, with his hungover demeanor, sleeping on planes, wearing flip-flops, with a sort of insusient smile on his face. That's a character.

Brolin in this movie is evidence of an actor who got a hold of the script and maybe got a producer credit and had too much power because his hair looks great. His hair just looks great, and he's always just racking his machine guns and getting stuff done and delivering impassioned speeches

about how we should or shouldn't do things to Catherine Keener. I was shocked. I was really shocked because I thought that what... I'm ready for it. No, I'm not mad. But what I thought was going to be coming at me in this film would be some of the things

that made me uncomfortable in the first movie with the safety off. And instead, it just felt like... What do you think it was? wasn't the first film that made you uncomfortable? I think there was this idea of proportionate response to an impossible situation or then disproportionate response. You know, there's the one of the classic lines of the movie is Brolin saying that we're going

to overreact. Right. Right. In response to drug violence drifting over the border into Arizona. Sure. And we take the fight to them or whatever. This movie, for some strange reason that I'm trying not to think of as just opportunistic. shoehorns jihadi ISIS violence into its beginning,

detours to Somali pirates in Africa, for whatever reason, and then just starts a land war in Mexico. I don't know why. I don't know why. I don't know. So I think a lot of stuff is happening right now where people are ascribing a lot of meeting to the movie

based on their feelings about Taylor Sheridan, based on their feelings about this current state of the world. I think that's really valid. You know, if you read the Esquire feature with Taylor Sheridan, I think he seems like an interesting person, but he also seems like incredibly enamored by himself. No, it's just like he envisions himself as an inheritor of this sort of like masculine fiction of the American West.

He's a Pizzolato. Nah, you know what? Pizzolato, yeah, I guess so if you want to put him in like a category or whatever. I mean, I still, I can't help the fact that I enjoy the stuff that he makes. You know what I mean? And I think that each one of the things that he does, I haven't had a chance to see Yellowstone. I would rather have that in the world than not have it in the world.

I'd rather, these are all generally stories that I'm interested in. And for each one, whether there's like a heavy-handed moment or whether there's a feeling that he's exploiting a real problem for ghoulish entertainment, I think these are all valid conversations to have. Your opinion about Sicario is the, the Soldato, is the one that I have been reading about this weekend since I've seen the movie. Because I read nothing.

Like, what a garish, like ugly gaping wound of a movie. And I think part of it, I think part of the vitriol towards it might be generated by the, couldn't possibly be worse timed. You know what I mean? And it's just a moment where I think this planet needs as much empathy in humanity as possible

in a world where that is increasingly becoming a scarce and rare resource and this movie is completely devoid of it except for kind of one moment. Yes, the signing moment. The signing moment and just the act of sacrifice to save Isabella

by Alejandro. Obviously we're talking about spoilers and Sikarius. But I want to push back only to say I think I agree with you about Taylor Sheridan and I wonder, I know nothing about this process other than I think there was one interview where Brolin was like, yeah, Benny and I got our hands on the script and that's been fun with it.

Benicio says in the movie, I think that the New York Times profile of Benichio del Toro, if I'm correct, talks about how Brolin and Benichio basically got, quote-unquote, got their hands on this script and reworked it. And I don't know really what happened, because there's a couple of different things. Like, it was just supposed to be called Soldado.

Yeah. You know, it was supposed to be not a sequel to Sicario, but a continuation of the saga in terms of, like, going into this world a little bit more. The reason why I brought up Taylor Sheridan, and the reason why I brought up all the reasons why I think people might hate this movie is because that makes it difficult to ascribe equally a level of artistic intent that I don't know if it was actually there. But that is sort of part of the fun of criticism.

So that being said, that's why I want to say, I think that this is a film without any heroes, and I think that this is a war without an opponent. And I think that's sort of the point, is that there is just this ghost. And they will, the military industrial complex will find any, boogeyman that they can to justify the continuation of their harvester of a death machine. And these guys are on the front lines of that. These guys have their own reasons for doing what they do. They have their own, maybe their own philosophies about how the world works and what

there should be. And they are, every moment, each one of them who we think, well, this is the most scabbed over, you know, cynical, awful, you know, morally bankrupt person and then they meet somebody who's worse. They always meet somebody who's worse. But throughout the film, you never meet Carlos Reyes.

The jihadis that are talked about are from New Jersey, that the whole plot line that is supposed to be the inciting event that got them, the quote unquote permission to go across the border in the first place is bullshit. And at the end of the day, Catherine Keener is more.

more cynical than Brolin or Benichio. Now, I don't think that that last act, those last 20 minutes, which a couple of people around the office have been like, man, that last 20 minutes is rough. But I don't think that that, like, it all saves those guys. I don't think that I feel any better about those guys. But what I think this movie

is ultimately about is the absolutely empty chasm of this kind of violence. I love what you're saying, and what I want to be clear about is a better movie should have been all of those things. I would like to see Taylor Sheridan's script, honestly,

because it doesn't feel, I don't, I mean, regardless of my feelings about his writing, I'm interested in his writing. And this movie felt so... By all accounts, though, there was a lot of work done to the Sicario script. I'm sure, but this felt... Including a complete rewrite of the ending.

This feels particularly clumsy to me. And a smarter, executed movie, a more smartly executed film would have accomplished what you were saying. Right. That's what it should have been about. But this movie didn't seem to be interested in anything other than what was in front of its face at any given moment. There was no, to my mind, just the filmmaking, separate and apart for it. I wasn't offended by it. I was expecting the way he set me up for it. I was kind of expecting to take moral umbrage at it. I was trying to talk myself down. I didn't. I just thought it was so messy and sloppy. And it didn't keep its eye on the things that were interesting, which could have been this hollowed out husk of a war machine, as you're talking about, how there are no real enemy. and things are going to keep blowing up, borders are porous, and what are we even doing with these death merchants that we've created? But that's undone in the context of the film,

by the way Brolin is shot and the way he's styled and the way he's given these speeches. I think he overpowered a director who didn't have any personal interest, artistic interest, in this part of the world or in this story necessarily. I don't know that. You interviewed him.

I didn't. I mean, if you look at his work, Gomorra's not pretty either. You know what I mean? I think that there's an interesting. There's an interesting line you walk between pretty and poorly made, or dimly lit and ugly versus poorly made. I personally think it was excellent.

It was very well made. I thought he did some things with the perspective that I thought were fascinating. I thought the gunfight that's shot entirely from Isabella's perspective is riveting. I thought that when it shifts into becoming a Western, when they meet. Angel and his family and it essentially becomes like an inverted searchers and then it turns into like El Topo

when he's lost in the desert with a bag over his head bleeding out of half of his face just don't see that I mean I just was just like I don't know where this movie is going this movie is really really wandering into a kind of like dark hybrid noir western that I haven't really seen in a long time if ever

before and I thought that I understand what you're saying about feeling like it was muddied and that it was basically like nine raids with a story attached to it. But I don't know. It really, I thought that the fact that they removed the audience avatar, that they took away the, but what are you guys doing? What are you talking about?

How can you do this? All that questioning. I think it's a very interesting experiment. And Solima told me and Sean that. He was like, I did not want to hold the hand of the audience through this movie. I didn't want them to say, have a. character who was then saying this is right or this is wrong. I just wanted the characters who we had to play out their drama.

And, you know, your mileage may vary on that. But I was so excited to be in a position where I got to watch that movie without, has nothing to do with Emily Blunt and the Kate character. I thought that was amazing. That, Scaro's amazing. I just thought it was really cool to not have like, what are we doing here, guys? You can't go, you can't do this. Because we've already established that you can't.

I agree with that. I guess I wish that the what are we doing here guys' conversation and it happened sometime before production started. Because I do think that separate and apart from commentary on the global war machine, the creation of Alejandro, the creation of Benito Del Torre's character, you've created an iconic screen character. And the way he plays him is never less than riveting. Even in this film, too.

There are positive things to say here, of course. He is, other than Chey Wiggum's one scene, which I would like to devote the rest of the podcast to, if I may. Del Toro is the best thing in this movie. And had this been a simpler, leaner story of him in the desert with the daughter of his enemy, you know, and I know it sounds like I'm pitching like a hard-boiled curly Sue here, but that's not what I'm saying,

with Brolin hunting him, that aspect of the film, with that geography, with that humanity, with that stillness, with that element of surprise, that would have spoken to me as not a necessary extension of this.

That's the movie we'll never make again. We were talking about this with Papillon, the one man alone in the desert with this girl that he's protecting or kidnapping. That character there. Absolutely. It would have been amazing. Frankly, there's also the element

that I feel like they want to be congratulated for avoiding this, but you just make the Liam Neeson version of you do take it or whatever. By the way, I know a lot of attorneys. I'm married to an attorney. The development curve from attorney to just death merchant to just rambo. Yeah.

Seems steep to me for a man in his 50s. Yeah. You know, like I'm willing to believe that he maybe would pack heat, that he could shoot somebody if he needs. needed to because he was so full of rage. But being able to drive across the desert with your face leaking out of your face while throwing grenades into people's cars? Look, look, doctor review is tough.

Writing legal briefs is challenging. But I do think he is an exceptional physical specimen for an attorney if this is really where he's ended up. Sure. The Chewiggum scene. My boy Eric Prince. He's so great. His hair choice, his icy whiskey.

It's been 100% clear. there is no hair choice. My guy walked off the set of Waco and was like, where's my eye line? Where am I looking? Is that my camera? Cool, turn it on. Let's go. Me and Berlin.

That was a scene. They literally did have dinner that night. 100%. 100%. At what point in the meal did they turn the cameras on? Yeah. Had they had their stakes yet? Were they waiting on their tiramisu?

When did they film that scene? I loved every second of it. I wanted more of it. Like that was a glimpse. Where's the coup? But that's a glimpse of the type of world. Like, okay, you've touched that third rail of international excitement that feels thrilling because it feels fictional, but it also feels real.

Arms dealing. Yeah. Potential. Yeah. All that shit is real. Like, all that stuff is like we're seeing it play out. And the toasting of in that moment in that absurd steakhouse. I'm like, okay, give me that.

And then we have so much more of this movie on screens. You know, I just feel like there was a laziness to the production design where they're constantly looking at their screens to see whose few clicks out, or they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, tattooed across his forehead. And you see like the other buttons on the screen, look like something out of Sandra Bullock in the net. It was like audio only, AV input. That is actually what Zoom looks like when you use it, though. I'm just saying it wasn't considered, you know, and I just appreciate it at Sicario. I get it, man. Every frame was considered. So it's, it's, it's

just the inverse of what I expected. I, I expected an artistic misfire. not a not just poorly made version of something that I think could have been interesting, which is where we ended up. How do you feel

about the fact that they really set themselves up for the three-quel? Yeah. They want that. They do. I don't know

if they will get it off. I mean, if Thanos could just be like it's happening. If these two guys are just like, we want to go back and do this,

the first Akari movie did, I think something like 12 million, it's opening weekend. We ended up making 85. And then was one of those rare lived on in home entertainment modern releases. Typically what happens is everything we just emphasize the first weekend here. And if it has a poor first weekend, you just see that precipitous drop off. And you hope, or if you made the movie, you're hoping to make it back and international. I'm not so sure how this is going to do internationally.

You see it did very well. It overperformed this weekend. Yes, I did see it. They were expecting 10 to 12 million, it made 19 million. Yes, I did. I don't, the reason why I was, the reason why I said I didn't think that they would make a third, at least based on box office,

is it is the opposite of hereditary. And hereditary is an equally nauseating and anxiety-producing movie. But I think people walk out of hereditary, and they're like, if you like a horror movie, if you like horror movies, you have to see this. I don't know that many people

who are going to be evangelists for Soldato. Can you rank these movies for me? Just in your own estimation. Hereditary? Soldado. Jaws.

Just because I'm trying to make my entertainment choices. Number one is Ant Man on the Wasp, man. Because what I really need is Marvel to get, give me like a lighter movie. Just enough with the heavy vibes, guys. Did you? and I hope

Jaws. Jaws is better? What about Kentucky Fried movie? I learned a lot from that movie. There's a moment... Can you fucking believe they've made that movie? Which one? Kentucky Fried movie. No, that's wild to me. Did people still know about that?

I feel like in an age of like... I would say we should... I don't know if we need to Doug going. I don't know what we could talk about with that movie. Well... Isn't there like a martial arts movie at the end of Kentucky Fried movie? There are... Here's what I remember about Kentucky Fried movie.

There's a lot of nudity in it. And so that was really why it was a key rental. I mean, let's just be honest. More than in Jaws. I don't remember. Richard Dreyfus is... Some tasteful nudity in Jaws. Richard Dreyfus is diesel in Jaws, right?

And he has a ton of chest hair. I love it. He takes off his sweater and they're like, you're wearing a shirt. They take off your sweater. There's a moment. I know we've done some light spoiling, but maybe we shouldn't spoil this one thing,

but there is a moment. I think we've broken the seal here. When Homi gets up after being shot point blank, that was when I was all the way out because I was like, oh, I guess in this morass of a movie, they were going to make an artistic choice here. Yeah, well, that would be the end. That would be the end.

Obviously, that would be the end. But if they were making unforgiven, that would be the end, right? He dies this ignominious death in the desert at the hands of a kid. You know, this, you know, superhero is felled by, like, you know, the everyday gun violence that happens. And then you could have Graver's revenge, I guess,

for catharsis, if you needed any more catharsis. But that would have been pretty stunning. I thought the way that they handled it was like, you're really doing this. You're really going to have this dude do a three-minute scene where he tries to figure out how to uncuff himself on a man's belt buckle while his head is coming out of his head. I would say that the crowd,

at the arc light at the late Sunday screening was definitely not the 10 a.m. vibes there that I usually have and I was I was going off of their reactions and that that definitely got some that that's when people woke up in the theater I would say like in a when he's just like cheek blood flow was just like like Christian Dior chief blood flow that's what I'm saying it was just like one of those like massage spray heads that you put in your shout, you know, it was just like really, you thought you had low water pressure, but no, no, no, no, you can fix it with this and then it's just coming out, coming out the cheek. Yeah.

You guys want to watch this movie now if you haven't already? Yeah, that definitely got the people, got the people going. Do you want a third one? No, I don't trust. I don't trust them. Like, do you remember this may be, this should go on your most Andy reactions ever bingo card, which I think some people on the Facebook group have? But do you remember a classic film that I've seen more times than Jaws? Barcelona by Whit Stillman. And one of the main, the funniest jaggs in that movie is when Chris Eagman remembers the movie The Graduate, but he remembers it as like this annoying twerp shows up and ruins a perfect wedding. Right. And you realize that someone could see something that is universally considered to be seen one way and just kind of get it wrong.

Well, that's the sort of right. And that's my feeling about this franchise where those of us who, you know, who love the first movie and I think we're holding it up as an exemplar of certain things, the people in charge of its destiny, I think, saw the wrong things in it, misunderstood the things that we liked, or maybe, you know, that that's what they preferred in it. But the thing is, it's not like they took Devil Wears Prada and then the sequel was Adrian Grenier's heroin addict and it's good time. You know what I mean?

It's like they weren't working from a feel-good story. No, no, no, no. It's not that. It's just that there is a certain sort of, like, existential despair and misery. I think that what you... P.S. Note to self, write the devil-word. Prada about Grenier's scag habit. That is a great take.

That is such a good pitch. Do you have any, what's your, what's your take on Devil Wars Prada? Do you think there's more there? We're thinking about revisiting that. Yeah, it could be a blog now and I'm like, no. Here's what it's really about. It's basketball diaries. With this fucking, this chef who taught Anna Hathaway how to eat strawberries.

Do you remember that? Like, is there a super fan who just has the Adrian Grenier's super cut where it's just his scenes in the movie, because that's their favorite part of it. No, I just think that you have the ability to do this because I think you are a more optimistic person about art than I am. Okay. You pulled out from this movie, Soldado, what I think a, not just reasonable, but exciting and interesting sequel to Sakario could have been, which is about taking that sort of blankness

that we're left with, where Emily Blunt thought she was having one kind of story, but in fact She wanted to push it, but she didn't know how far that would involve going. And she didn't know that she was the road they were going to drive over. Exactly. Realizing that that road goes on forever and that there is no end to it, I think that that is, that's thrilling. And at some point, there must have been meetings where that was what it was, and maybe that's what Taylor Sheridan intended for it to be. I mean, I would be very curious to see that. But as soon as we see Brolin swaggering around with that beard, like killing people by video game.

and loving it. I mean, remember, this is the last thing I'll say about it, but just contrasts the enhanced interrogation scenes in the first movie and the second movie. And the brilliance of the first movie is we don't actually see horror. We see Deltoro get so physically close to the guy that it's like nothing we've ever seen before

and it's terrifying. And we see him hold a thing of water. In this, it's just like, remember these water jugs? I don't need to do that anymore because I'm in Africa, a meaningless place, just like Mexico, a meaningless place. Right. And there's just no thought behind it.

I don't think. It's, I think I'm going to be very curious to keep reading about it, to keep hearing what people have to say about it. I've gone through a real cycle of emotions about it. I've definitely walked out of it thinking it was on par in some ways with the original. Well, who were you sitting next to again? You were sitting next to East Side Morales? I mean, my God. I would love anything sitting next to Issaverallis.

The guy fucking loves popcorn. Does he? Was he going off on it? It was one of those things where like I feel like I get popcorn belly after a couple of handfuls. Yeah, yeah. Not East Side Morales. No? He fucking...

He was like, where's the rest of the popcorn? Like, holding it upside down. He was shaking it just for the last... He's like, G. Like, I love that guy as an actor. And I was just like, God damn, this is like a real men and boys situation. Like, I'm like, oh, popcorn belly. And he's just like, where...

Day of the popcorn dado. Really? Yeah. So, wow, should we talk to people about their popcorn habits? And maybe it's us. Wow. Maybe it's our delicate Philadelphia constitutions. This is, yeah, I know.

I feel like if I'm going to get dragged for seeing Jaws once as a child, please just have that grist for his inability to digest popped corn. You just said you too have popcorn belly. I just sort of nodded because I wanted you to feel comfortable because we haven't agreed so much. Man, fuck you. You did that. I ate a popcorn last night. And then I went to bed because I felt great.

The popcorn I had at the arc light last night was the highlight of my experience there, other than that fanging popillon trailer. I'm calling Shane Wiggum, man. Price is on your head now. I'm gonna go buy hockey team. All right, we'll be back on Thursday. We'll be talking about the first three episodes of Glow and Sunday night's succession.

And then we will also be taking your questions. Send them in. We got a mailbag next Monday. I'll be in La Vegas. Wow, at the aria. Who's fronting you? Budgie. I love that.

Happy holidays, everybody. Happy Fourth of July, Baranskis.