The Watch - ‘The Last of Us’ E4 and the Last of ‘The Righteous Gemstones’

Episode Date: May 5, 2025

Chris and Andy talk about some TV and movie news that came out over the weekend, including a potential new tariff being levied on movies made internationally (1:00). Then they break down the latest episode of ‘The Last of Us’ and how the show has found its engine after Joel’s death (10:37). Finally, they discuss the series finale of ‘The Righteous Gemstones’ (41:07) and Conan O’Brien's Kennedy Center Mark Twain Prize ceremony, which was just uploaded to Netflix (50:30). Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Producer: Kaya McMullen Video Production and Editing: Jon Jones Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Did you know about one in three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you? Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away. Trimphaya, gusalcumab, taken by injection, is a prescription medicine for adults with moderate to severe plaques psoriasis, who may benefit from taking injections or pills or phototherapy, and for adults with active psoriotic arthritis. serious allergic reactions and increased risk of infections and liver problems may occur.

Before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or if you need a vaccine. Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimfaya. Tap this ad to learn more about Trimfaya, including important safety information. This episode is brought to you by Brooks. Running connects us to a rush of energy that flows through our world.

The cheers of friends that unlock a new gear within us, the intersection of interest that inspires a run crew, the support that gets you over the finish line. Connection is why we move forward and what inspires us to keep going. Let's run there. Learn more at brooksrunning.com. I need supports to have to clear the run. Stand up and walk now.

Hello, and welcome to The Watch. Chris Ryan and I am an editor at the ringer.com and joining me in the studio, realistically playing a teenager. It's Andy Greenwald. Is that teen, just? Yeah, man. Today on the watch, on a Monday, the last of us, the last of the righteous gemstones, and possibly one of the last events at the Kennedy Center, who even knows, we're going to talk a little bit about the Mark Twain Conan O'Brien event that's on Netflix. Did you ever think about the last of U.S.? Wow, bro.

You ever think about that? It's been there the whole time. Let's just cut it there. I think we got to the bottom of it. I've been thinking all weekend. Hit our inbox, the watch at Spotify.com. Watch us on YouTube at the ringer-tash TV channel. You can also watch us on Spotify, where I hope you are listening to us.

And follow us on Instagram, the watch pod underscore. You can just be so involved with us. Are we with you? Um, do you want to talk about Donald Trump saving the film business? First of all, I want to make it clear. I would golf with anybody. And no bad ideas on the back nine. Do you know what I mean?

Sometimes after three IPAs, you just start whiteboarding, you know? I mean, I... So let's talk about. Okay, so yesterday, somehow on a Sunday news dump, it was announced that Trump made this crazy... See, we're already sanewashing it. like, you know, strategically, just as the weekend B.O. was coming in. I'm saying this guy is out there, man. Like, he's really, he really is just tweeting through it still.

And he said that he is going to institute, I believe, a 100% tariff on foreign films. I don't know whether that means, like, next time I try to buy a letterbox hive in shambles. A Fellini movie, that means it's going to cost twice as much on top of whatever other tariffs happen to play. plastic. But this was all in an effort he claims to bring production back to the United States. Wow. Which you have mentioned, and I have observed, is like a really big concern, especially in Los Angeles, but in the industry of basically like to use a Trump phrase, offshoreing production. So this is nuts. I'm sure Matt Bellany is going to talk about it. I'm sure Fennacy is going to talk about it.

Did you have a reaction to this? I mean, it's just stupid. And it's a waste of our time to even think about it, honestly. And I don't mean like for the purposes of the podcast. But I mean, I generally, and I say this, you know, with all humility and attempted balance, like, I think to live in this world, one should not always pay attention to the crazy guy smearing his shit on the walls. Like, I think we have to, I'm talking about here at Spotify, because downtown L.A. is a mess. I didn't want people to think I was talking politically. Yeah. So, okay, great.

I mean, it's all made up. I don't think he understands what a tariff is. none of it's possible and it's nonsense. And now everybody has to spend a day to a week being like, well, if this did happen, how would can film festival respond? To your point, to try to take some threat of this seriously, like bringing production back to the United States is important. And particularly to Los Angeles, that ought to be a priority.

There are ways of doing that while also acknowledging the fact that cinema, Sean Fantasy Voice, is a global language. It is a global language. And, you know, like, you see, like, the Hollywood Reporter people, like, being called away from their Sunday night dinner as being like, okay, I guess this is what it means and be like, Mission Impossible, Final Reckoning was shot Primer. I'm like, yeah, like, I don't think it's better for the world if Mission Impossible movies shoot only in Cleveland. Yeah, I definitely think Dune 3 should be shot in Philly now. Can you be? Paul Trady is, like, walking out of the art museum steps.

The fucking worm jumps out of the parkway. No worms. Just the ATV guys from Creed? Come on. Stop talking me into this. Zendaya comes up like, Yo, hon. You got any of that blue stuff

we were drinking last night? I think they have a lot of blue stuff in Philly right now. Did your aunt, Ben-Jezeret? Does she still have that? No, Benny Jeseret is a guy who lives on South Broad. He parks in the middle of the street. God, sometimes these ideas just flowed through us. Yeah, it's just it's just idiocy and distraction.

Okay. But, you know, again, to try to be the most generous one could be about it, I mean, this is where this is where this is where this screwed up world always puts us. Like, I'm sitting here being like, wait, wait, why couldn't John Voight have been given time to present his plan? Like for as moronic as it is and as, you know, deserving of ridicule as the, you know, John Void and Mel Gibson are my team captains in Los Angeles. to save Hollywood. Yeah. One has to believe that on some level,

if John Voight really was getting an audience at the White House, he would have said, tax credits for Los Angeles production are good, actually, or whatever. Sure. Like that there was a way

to address this without blowing up the entire world. I mean, there's so many things that go into this. I mean, obviously, several of the countries

where a lot of production happens have universal health care for their citizens. Wow. So I think it allows or helps people work in those industries. I mean,

how long do you have, right? To not get sick? Careful, Carl Marx. I don't know what you're advocating over here. I feel great. Big Lutheran energy over here. Yeah, I would, to shout out a show we're going to be talking about shortly,

I would trust Dr. Watson to handle international tariffs before I would trust the current document of the White House. I was thinking, though, about how fucking maddening it most. be to be like one of the dudes working for Trump and when he just like pops off on one like this and you've got to get on X and just be like I got you chief

like here we go time to tariff these fucking square French movies do you think we ever had? Did you ever feel a similar pressure like on the glory days with Twitter like when people were like popping off sports takes like 2014? There was definitely

a period of time where like I would be I remember one time at dinner at Moral Hardware and somebody like my phone just started vibrating because Kevin Durant like heard himself. I think it was when he heard his, I think he just heard his knee. I don't think it was the Achilles. Right. And it was like, my wife was like, are you serious? Like you have to go home to document this man's injury. And, uh, but that's, that's really nothing compared to what Howard Lutnik has to do every day. I do remember the time similarly, this is different. That's also like early days blog energy. Like I remember there was a time when I think we were both on fire island for

the weekend and the Avengers poster dropped. And I got like a text from Lane Brown being like, can you cover this? I was like, I guess so. You were sipping an apparel at the beach. I was like, why are you making it sound like we were in Oceans 12? You were management, you know, you could have a vacation. I was like, the presence of Captain America's Shield is significant historic. Now I just do it on podcast.

You didn't see Thunderbolts, right? I'm dying to see Thunderbolts. I actually really want to see Thunderbolts. I hope you can do it for Thursday, maybe. We can do that in and or on Thursday. I'm sure people are tuning in for our political content, not our imminent last of us takes. But one of the reasons why I'm fired up about seeing Thunderbolts is, first of all,

it filmed internationally and maybe our last chance. So let's treasure these things where we have them? It filmed in... Because it's set largely in New York City. Yeah, I did. This is funny. I see, God, we're all over the place today. But I saw, I like watching the Instagram content of the British food site Topjaw.

Oh yeah. A very, very handsome man just charmingly interviews people about restaurants. Your favorite restaurant in London, yeah. And he talks to Florence Pew, which is just anyone talking to Florence Pew is gold. And he was like, you filmed all over for Thunderbolts. And she's like, no, not really. And he's like, they told me you did. And she's like, oh, right.

Well, we filmed in London, Utah and Malaysia. Yeah. And he's like, that's pretty all over. So there you go. There's your answer. But the reason I'm fired up about it is because this weekend I watched

I don't know if you've heard of this film It's called Avengers Endgame With your children Yeah So they had seen Infinity War Yes I was really surprised when you told me this Because it sounded like

They did not treat the snap Like much of a cliffhanger No well they had You know again I can't control all their viewing They had already watched The second Spider-Man Tom Holland movie Where they're like Wow it's weird we were gone for five years

So they were pretty It's pretty spoiled on that score. I just want to say... Do your kids also watch billions on Instagram? On Reels? No, they watch it on Paramount Plus because they're responsible. Yeah, maybe this is like

armor ahead of my more potentially dangerous takes later, but like, Avengers Endgame fucking goes. That movie's great. That movie is so, so good and so clever, and it's just like, it is, I think, the best case scenario

for so much of this stuff. Let's just put a capsule on this. If Trump had an AI program redo the scene in Avengers Endgame where everybody's stepping out of the Doctor Strange rings and it's like him and his cabinet and they're like

it looks like film production is back on the menu boys. And then like, you know... Oh, so like Sam Wilson comes out and he's just like instead of the iconic line, when he comes out of Wong's ring, this time he'd say,

on your right cap. Oh, wow. You know what I mean? There you go. And you know what the first cut would be after that? The scene of all the Avengers ladies doing it for themselves. Do you remember that?

That's right. There's the shot. But it's like Christy Noem. Leastafantic. Bam Bondi. Who gets the Goodeth Paltrow, wait, am I in this movie, let alone in an Iron Man suit reveal?

Linda McMahon. Which one of your gals? She's the one? Definitely. Sick. Okay, I think we covered that. I felt like it was important, though. Yeah, I think it's just like, don't, here it comes.

It comes for this now, too. So do you want to get into Last of Us? I think we should talk about Last of Us. Yeah. This might be our last podcast. I really enjoyed this episode. Whoa. Yeah.

So I was going to joke that this felt like an episode of Crossfire already with your like, let's just hear him out, accommodationist attitude. And now you like this episode? Yeah. Did you not? I really didn't. Jeffrey Wright is a great actor. So I always got time for him when he's on screen.

This one is basically the gang goes to Seattle. I want to talk to you a little bit about Seattle as a setting for this show. I don't know where they shot this. Who knows? But I really enjoyed this as a location. And we get to meet Jeffrey Wright's character as this guy named Isaac Dixon, who's a former Fedra agent and now leader. a leader of the Washington Liberation Front.

Seems like he has a kind of co-executive branch situation with Alana Olbach, which was just like absolutely amazing to see her as a hardened militia member. What about his Why I Quit New York essay? Except it's about why I quit Fedra. Because Josh Peck won't shut up. I mean, I know a lot of things have deteriorated in the post-apocalyptic, mushroom zombie land. But, like, I feel like there are other ways to, like,

whatever happened to quiet quitting. I think it was, I think he wanted to make an extreme gesture of his loyalty to the burgeoning WLF, which frankly looked like a bunch of people at a Silver Lake Dog Park, you know, but. I'm cutting you off. Give me the setup. You want to be, beyond that, we get to, we learn a little bit more about the WLF and their ongoing conflict with the scars or the seraph

as we learned. Yeah, we learned. People are called. They're in a basically a Civil War taking place in Seattle. And both are using very extreme measures against one another. Got some disemboweling going on. Got some little enhanced interrogation techniques with copperware. I want to talk to you about that.

I really have a lot of thoughts about the cookware. What about just, you know, one little trend that I'm always happy to see is creepy messages written in blood. You know? Yeah. Like, get my attention. Just stay with you. This one reminded me... This was shot in Vancouver.

Okay. So, but this episode reminded me of the Melanie Linsky passage of episodes from the previous season. And I just felt very stimulated by having, like, a fully new kind of world to play around in outside of Jackson. Ellie and Dina still very much a part of the story, but you almost could feel them kind of becoming secondary to what was going on on screen. like their love story and their, you know, adventure that they have in the abandoned light rail tunnel, because Seattle does not have subways. I thought it was fine, and we can get into what exchange they have, the secret exchange that they have. But I wanted to get your impressions of the WLF.

I guess you're, you're anti. I'm curious. Yeah. I think, before we get into that, I want to say I agree with your larger point. the best video game aspect of the show is the idea of our player characters or protagonists wandering into new sets, new stages, new levels with pre-existing conflict, that they are not walking into a place where it will be them against the WLF. They are walking into an active war zone, basically, between two factions. And they are diminished by that. And also,

inevitably, I think, will survive because of that. So I think that that structure works really well, and it's an example of the show's smartly leaning into something that the video game gave it. It's not how I felt about the entire episode. I have, I guess I want to answer, so you want to ask me about my feelings about the WLF and their... Not about their methodology, but as a crew... I mean, a lot of Uback and Uback, is that how you pronounce her name, I think?

I've never said it out loud. And Jeffrey Wright just have I just like immediately was interested in what was going on between the two of them she plays hand-ray-hand

who's the person who seems to recruit him For what it's worth I did write it down as hammer hand Oh, okay I was wrong

It was kind of cool It's kind of cool I just want you to know the kind of boots on the ground reporting I do I do in Thunderbolts

he's pretty good great yeah so your question is basically like was I into this I mean no no no

I have a separate question I didn't know if you wanted to talk specifically Go ahead. You go ahead. These are my favorite. My bigger question for you,

and I do have some like other subsequent questions, but like what is the fundamental difference between this show now and the Walking Dead? And I don't mean in terms of the quality of the production, the settings, not even the caliber of actor. And I Walking Dead had many good actors on it, including your patron St. John Bernthal. but like Isaac,

I'm sorry, Jeffrey Wright coming in as Isaac, raises the bar, gets my attention. It is exactly the kind of provocation that like Melanie Linsky being in it. I guess it is not exactly like it in the sense that apparently I've learned this that Jeffrey Wright plays this part in the video game, so it was expected and it's not totally out of left.

Sure. But just on a foundational level, a show about people scrabbling through an apocalyptic zombie wilderness discovering that the real monsters are people all along, it's Walking Dead. I'm really honest with you, man. I watched Walking Dead for like four years.

And so did many millions of people. I'm thinking about this because I'm trying to calibrate my engagement in the show, which is diminishing significantly, without Pedro Pascal and a reason, without a, this girl is going to save everyone, and whether we make this choice or not, we'll determine everything that follows. I'm not saying that's gone.

Her immunity finally was brought up and confessed. And so that's still on the table. Yeah, she did her, diplomatic community. How much more would you love the show if she had done that? Well, lethal weapon, too, should exist in the timeline of this show. Just like, what did she sing?

She's saying, AHA's take on me. Up there with Thompson Twins and AHA are having a moment. I feel so, as a man in his late 40s, It's so rare to see my formative content and culture reflected back at me. So thank you. Thank you, television. No, I'm not saying that The Walking Dead is a bad comp. I'm not saying The Walking Dead is a bad show, although I did argue that at times in a

Granlin column. Yes. I'm saying I no longer really see the difference in terms of what's compelling to me once I get past the, oh, Jeffrey Wright's doing a cool monologue. And I did think of it when a friend of the pod, Casey Blois, head of HBO, was on with Matt felony on the town. And Matt asked him a smart question that Casey has wrestled with before, which is what makes shows HBO shows anymore when you are dealing with the same kind of IP stuff. And Casey is very nimble with it. And he basically said that we feel like if we're going to do it,

we want to elevate it or we want to change it or we want to change your perception of it. And he used even like True Blood as an example of how HBO has always kind of done that. And it wasn't some new David Zazlov mandated thing. And I was just thinking about that. that as I'm watching this show be, I guess, the best version of something that to me is increasingly less compelling. Okay. I mean, I don't have

like a really good counter argument. These are just the kinds of, I like these kinds of stories. Yeah. So the idea of a post-apocalyptic Seattle being fought over between a highly militarized like militia and a religious faction.

It's kind of curious. I'm curious about it. I feel like also these episodes, honestly, since Joel, are kind of moving a little bit. Not in a bad way, not any way against Joel. Yeah. But I think maybe I turn each episode on and I'm like, I don't really know. I think I'm enjoying not knowing what the show is about anymore. You know, like before it was like very wrote about this father-daughter relationship between

two people who were kind of deeply in pain as they went across this, you know, post-apocalyptic wasteland and finally found a home, which, it turns out, was inevitably never going to be that. I think it allows Bella Ramsey and the Ellie character now to be a couple of different things rather than just petulant at a person that she, for some reason, unspoken, seems to distrust or mistrust or have some beef with. But she wants something now in a different way. Yeah, she wants something. And I think that you can kind of feel even in the...

the performance that as the, I mean, the character still does things that are very annoying, like dropping the lid on the tank or being like, I'm going over here without, you know, waiting for cover or anything like that. But I am enjoying, like, each iteration of now that this character's on their own, now that they are kind of having to fend for themselves

and deal with the consequences of some of their decisions, I find it a little bit more engaging or pretty engaging. I suppose I just find myself like zagging here where in a post-Pedro Pascal world, I'm actually like kind of more stimulated by the show than I was before. I think that's, first of all, happy for you. Thanks, man. Happy for you. You're getting a lot of what you want this week, a post-Paskell television show and real change in Washington.

So, you know, it's win-win. I am definitely struggling more with the, I would say, challenging, mashup of young lovers on the run plus sadistic zombie apocalypse show. There are a lot of tone shifts within the episode

that are tough to keep up with. I think that the Dina character is fun and good energy and a good counterbalance to Bella Ramsey's performance as Ellie. I also find myself and this is incredibly pedantic and nitpicky, but very distracted by the

fact that that they, that she has perfect hair and makeup up and a cool punk belt all the time. Like, it just feels a little, uh, either video gamey or wish for filming TVE for sure. Um, that kind of, that, I kind of bump on that. And then, you know, I just got to say like, I thought the wandering into the sunkiss record store that's also a music store.

So Ellie can play a beautiful sadcore cover of a song from the 80s that, uh, she would have no way of knowing, and I really question that this version of Joel would know either while Dina stares rapturously at her, was pretty dumb and cringy. Now, I'm also telling myself here, I know that's from the video game. That is

verbatim from the video game, but do you know what else is from a video game? The time Sonic the Hedgehog and his pal-tails got more golden rings than Dr. Robotnik. Do you know what I mean? So, like, what are we doing? And what are we doing this for? The source is the source. The source material is the source material. But it is a very, I'm trying to be,

generous when I say this that I understand that the project. Do you want the show itself to interrogate that moment in a different way than the video game did? Or do you think that's just fan service of video games? I just think that didn't work. And I think it's fan service. However, this is a very, you know, when we talk about contemporary TV. I think it's actually wrong because by 03 when the apocalypse happens, I don't think mournful indie covers of 80s songs had really broken out yet. No, Westworld never happened. So that whole thing where it's like James Boyer. The band who did the kind of emo cover of the Breakfast Club song. What was the breakfast?

Don't you forget about me? Yeah. I didn't, wasn't there like in a... Sure. I mean, there was a lot of that. There was like the Atari's doing the John Hughes songbook. Like that was, that was a thing. But was that before 03?

Did the apocalypse happen in 03? Yeah. We can never know this for sure. It's the first episode of the show. We may not know that. In fact, it's hard for us to figure out what the first episode, even was. There's so many. But I'll take your word for it. Okay. I think that when we say often on this podcast that there are a lot of stakeholders on a show or a lot of cooks in the kitchen, that can mean

like different studios or producers or artistic points of view. In this case, it specifically means that it is Mazen and Druckman working together to make something for HBO. What you will get is sometimes an uncomfortable hybrid. And I think for the most part, the show is actually not uncomfortable at all. It's worked tremendously. And people are very happy with the result. There are moments, though, where I'm like, I would question the necessity of that. And I looked it up

to see why it was there at all. And it was there to service the video game fandom. There are three elements of this show story-wise. There's the LA plot. There is the Seattle WLF-Skars plot. And then there is the mushroom people.

Because we haven't really been back to Jackson since we left. So we are kind of keeping our POV with Ellie or Isaac essentially. Now this show I think has shown in the past that it will flip around obviously there's the Nick Offerman Murray Bartlett episode. There's some time

spent with Molly Olinsky. There are various flashback episodes. They're kind of you know flights of fancy with Jakarta or the guy in the first episode who's giving him lecture about like the viral

the viral outbreak. But I found myself kind of returning to that same idea that I brought up last week, which was the difference between Last of Us and Andor and how I thought this episode was trying to sort of have its cake and eat it to in a way that I didn't mind that much. But it was, you know, you could make an argument that there's a version of this show where everything is discovered by Ellie. So we're now already like Isaac, Isaac, Isaac. Ellie has no idea. By the way, it's 2013, I think it's the last of us. Oh.

Because if it was 2003. that would be 26 years since Joel lost his daughter. Well, he's real old. It's 2029 now, right? Oh, yeah. I mean, I'm... Because there's a difference between the game and the TV show when they do it. Oh, is there?

Yeah. So, okay. I think that, Kai, can you let us know as our producer? This is when the pod is at its best, right? When we get really deep into the weeds of easily Googlable facts. Why don't we continue the podcast? Could you be a stat gal for us and check this? The point is, is that I don't know

that she would know the character Ellie would know a beautiful folk indie version of that song. So she invented it. Yes. Well, now I know why Dina was like, holy shit.

Yeah. This is a whole genre. Like, imagine if you'd never seen social network and one day I came in and just sang a beautiful boy's chorus version of creep. Follow up.

Are you? all the boys in the chorus? Are you like auto looping yourself like Reggie Watts to create? Yeah. I think I would be surprised on more levels than just you've invented music. I'd be like, where have you been hiding this tenor? I just wanted to, I was trying to make the point, though, that I find the shows kind of going back and forth between, you know, you're watching Ellie and Dina be like, well, look at all those

explosions over there. I guess we have to go towards them. Right. And then we know what's happening to say. some extent, just vis-a-vis are a couple of scenes with Isaac in this episode. It's the difference between doing that complete John Dos Passos, like we're flying around every single possible character versus I am just going to kind of live through this one person's experience of this. I would also like to say publicly, you were right. The television show is 2003.

Great. Well, are you going to respond to anything I've said other than that, though? No, I'm just thinking about, so there was no swift boating. Like John Kerry. John Kerry is, yeah. I get the impression John Kerry went down with the first wave, though. I don't know. They were in Boston. Do you know what I mean?

Like, he has. Wasn't he largely like a product of Washington at that point? Yeah. Here we go. I'm sorry. Say this for the quarter steps. They drain the swamp. You know?

Speaking of cities, I wanted to bounce this off of you. I've put it together a little bit of a last of us city rankings. Oh, okay. And I thought maybe you could weigh in on your own here. I did appreciate. I like the moment when they saw the explosions. I also like the moment when they're in the subway tunnel and those fucking things are trying to get into the train car

and they're like blap, blap, blap, blab, you know? That's the thing. Anytime it ever gets corny, it gets really good. Yeah, but I'm like, this is how we're built different and not in a good way in this case. That like once they chase them down to the subways, I was like, because you're all about that life. And I'm like, oh, you know, I'm thinking about how if only Campbell Scott's character in singles had successfully built the monorail.

That's right. This whole thing would have been invalidated. Wait, does singles come out? Yes. Oh, yeah. The singles is the 90s, yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Maybe that's what started the infection. The super train that they didn't build it. They brought a mushroom guy in from Portland, Oregon. And he lived in the little complex with everyone. No, it's just like, for me, for those scenes, when the Mila directed scene where Abby was running from the chain link fence, I was like, this is so sick, honestly, and it's so engaging, it's viscerally done. And I'm not saying that Milad deserves all the credit. Kate Heron is a good director directed this episode. And it was also well directed.

But there was something that was so visually engaging and dramatically exhilarating about that scene that I was completely all in and all my little nipater. picks about like Dina's dental health fall away. And that's when the show is at its best in terms of my engagement with it. Yeah. Subway thing for me, I'm like mildly engaged, but I also know both of them are going to survive. There's going to be some, I predicted some moment. I don't mean it like a total asshole here. Like I called it. Yeah. It wasn't that. But there had to be some narratively significant moment that happened. And it was just a question of getting over the obstacles. And for me, those scenes start to feel like mashing the X button to get through it to see what it, what we've learned or how it's going to resolve.

That there is a segment of the audience, and this was true with Walking Dead too, and I think I wrote about this back in the days of Gremlin, which is just like, if you like the flavor of this snack, there's going to be a lot of it. And so you're going to be happy. That's never been my favorite flavor,

so I'm looking in the other scenes, and I found them lacking. And the other scenes were of people getting tortured. So that was the other thing. I do want to talk to you about cookware. But I also, and I'm willing to cut, now I'm willing to cut the show some slack, because post-2003 really was the golden age

of character actors giving slow monologues about something unrelated. You know when I was a boy at the... So maybe they didn't know how totally hacky that type of scene is, I think, at this point. There's actually, it's funny, in gemstones, John Goodman starts one of those speeches and then it just goes, fuck, fuck it.

Yes. Like, that's the thing. And it scratches a certain it. It's a very familiar thing. and when you give a scene like this to an actor like Jeffrey Wright, it is a contemporary Shakespeare monologue. Like, he knows what to do with this,

and he seems to savor it. I found it pretty hideous, honestly. I found it really ugly. And the whole thing, ugly. And I didn't think it's particularly braver. Because you think he was denigrating cast iron cookware or because of his... I think he was right.

And I wanted to criticize it, but I did appreciate that he was just like, copper is very, very difficult to clean. And I was like, that's the law. That's the truth that the Nancy Myers movie industry has hid from us. Yeah. Like, it looks good in Pottery Barn or William Sonoma, as he references. Hope they cut that check. What happened? Ice Cold Pepsi after I torture a guy.

I was thinking about it. Like, the one thing that the first thing that ages poorly in all major movies is just the naked product placement. Like when I was watching Endgame and Ant Man, Cap and Black Widow, like, go to Tony Stark's lake cabin to be like, let's invent time travel to fix the universe, but they pull up in a sick Audi E-Tron test model.

And the Audi's are crazy. And he's like, D-Divirks it right. Yeah. It worked on us. But anyway. Is that why he bought an Audi? Yeah. No, that's why I bought an electric car.

Yeah. You know, you're welcome. Yeah, I just, I found it I found it gratuitous and gross. Okay. And whenever these shows go in that direction, it's just not how I want to spend my time.

Well, I want to see what their ideological differences are. And I am very intrigued by this lady who seems to have a hold over the scar people, the seraphites, you know? Like the idea of this like love going beyond love and into violence is... Do you think of her as more of a Marianne Williamson or a Tulsi Gabbard type?

My last of us city rankings are as follows. Uh-huh. Ready? Okay, I'm ready for this. I'm not done talking about the seraphites, but yes. Okay. No, you go ahead and talk about the seraphites then. Are you aware that creator Neil Druckman has said that some of his influence for this was his childhood in Israel?

I was aware. I was not aware that you were going to bring it up, but we can talk about it. I just find, I don't know, I'm not denigrating or speaking to his personal background or history or reasons for what he's doing with his art. I am 100% struggling, as you may have heard when we were talking about the first thing here. that we talked about today, like, trying to use this hyper-violent zombie video game, now a TV show, as any kind of vehicle for deeper thoughts

about where we are in the world or who we are as a people, I'm out on. Is it because of that, okay, is it because of the genre? Yeah, I mean, because of, like, the hell that we live in. It's a combination of both. I think, and you can speak to this better than I can,

but I think that even from my vantage point, which is under my covers with my hands over my face. Madically reading Facebook. Reading Facebook to get my news. Horror movies... Engaging with the larger and or... Engaging respectfully. Always respectfully.

I think that horror movies, like, tell me what's wrong about this analysis, but I think the things that horror movies do really well, which is, you know, pluck the strings of emotional extremity and reaction and that other movies and other types of art don't. And also, they are, very, very, very, um, hardy, uh, vehicle for, um, real world analogy, right? And for politics and for,

most of the world seems to run on fear. So horror is a really effective window through which to like, look at the human experience. To look at the human experience and to look at issues of the day in a way that is scared of. Yeah. I think that's, I, I think that's great for you guys. No, I, I, I, genuinely see that and respect it. And when I am able to engage with it, it is, it is a me thing. It is not a genre thing. Um, I think. Um, I think that's, I think that's, I think. Um, I think. Um, I think. I think. think that scripted prestige television dramatic shows are incredibly hardy vehicles to explore emotional relationships between people in the world as it is and, well, including room for nuance and non-binary and all senses kinds of explorations of ideas. I think the mashup of the two,

which is necessary for a long-running TV show, feels awkward to me and feels sometimes incoherent to try to juice yourself on the I am holding a pan to this scarred naked guy's arm while he screams and then also be like but what this really says about my trauma is that type of shit turns me all the way off. Is it because of the specific genre we're watching or do you think maybe you've just kind of seen so many genre shows regardless whether it's the boys or Game of Thrones or whatever that you're like I am actually starting to be allergic to this I just want you to tell me a good story because you can make the argument that Andor is certainly doing what you're talking about right now, right? Using Star Wars to talk about real wars. Yes, but I think that Andor is very much in

it stays within its lane of being a show about adult spies and revolutionaries struggling. It would feel very different if Wilman, was secretly a Padawan learner, apprentice to a Jedi, and now all of a sudden there's space magic. There isn't space magic on that show, and I think it's consistent. This show, I think,

and I'm not saying it's a bad idea to try to do it. Of course, I understand. I'm finding the collision to be off-putting of we are being thoughtful, emotionally, and emotionally wise and considerate.

We even have a therapist on this show. But also... For all the good she did. But also, we're going to... I'm sorry, what did you do in the subway car with your two guns up? Blap, blap.

Yeah. I find that to be a, increasingly uncomfortable collision, particularly in this moment that we are living in, where I just start to find it really kind of smug and conversation ending that this perpetual obsession that we have, that when the shit goes down, we're going to fix it with guns and charisma. When I actually think a better argument for how we could fix it was on view in the Conan O'Brien Mark Twain Prize thing on Netflix, which we'll get to in a second. That's kind of, that's the energy I'm bringing to this.

Now let's talk about your city rankings. I think number one has to be Lincoln, Massachusetts, which is where Murray Bartland at Gafferman lived. Now, I think it goes bad a little bit towards the end there, but you really have a beautiful domestic scenario there, you know, and the wife picket fences, living off the land. Does it remind you of how, like, when restaurant owners take a space, they get like a 10-year lease?

Yeah. And then they're like, you know what? Restaurants are mortal, they're fickle, they're challenging. If we can make it 10 years, that's. the success. Yeah. So that's kind of the vibe. That's my link in Massachusetts.

I love lived there. So I think it's got... Do you say love lived there? Yeah. Wow. Number two, kind of shocking. Seattle. So wild.

Verdant and also diversity of viewpoints. A robust... So you're saying there's a robust debate in the public square of Seattle. It's like 1770s Philadelphia. It reminds me of the opening of Hamilton. Yeah. Wow. Okay.

Do you feel, though, there is an opportunity to, okay, remember a few months ago when the Philadelphia Eagles won the Super Bowl? Yeah. You're wearing the hat. And then remember I told you that my parents who lived downtown were like, we didn't even see anything. There wasn't a celebration. And I was like, do you look at the windows on the other side of the apartment? Is there an opportunity to be like my parents in Seattle and be like, those crazy kids are out there kicking up some kind of ruckus? But I'm just here with my old Bob Marley vinyl and my immaculate guitars.

Yeah, playing indie folk covers of a new wave song. Sure. You think there's space for that? Seattle's a huge city. Yeah, well, but it feels like a small town, I think, from people who live there say that. Number three, Jackson, communal, but a lot of bureaucracy. Yes, I agree. Like, a lot of, like, we have to run it up the flagpole, obviously frustrating guys, like Seth.

Yeah. Do you know what Seth said when they asked him, everyone in Jackson needs due process. I don't know. Number four, Salt Lake City. Functional medical infrastructure. Functional, but brittle. Do you know what I mean?

Maybe not the most secure medical infrastructure? I would say it was, it earned its reputation, but it burned fast and it burned hot. Number five, Boston. I mean, it was actually still functional. I actually saw no difference between Boston on the show and Boston in real life. Number six, Jakarta. we didn't go back Nope because it's gone

But it's still better than Kansas City Because Okay Because Kansas City had roving death squads And they were probably all Chiefs fans Oh yeah I mean also we wouldn't want to be in Kansas City regardless Yeah good point yeah

Do you Did you have thoughts about the cookware? Uh A real like I think I too Have probably heard my fair share Of guys about to kill another guy but first has a cool monologue. For a long time, those were my stock and trade.

You know, like, I really... That's just like... You built yourself piece by piece through those speeches. Like, that's how we built this place. But, you know, I was curious about where that was going. It did seem like he wasn't about to make an omelet. And he didn't. There is a kind of wild...

If you were to just... That thing was like, Burnby. I don't go to fuck. You know? Think about that level of... commitment. That's belief. Yeah.

That's what Vic Fangio demands. You think Jahad Gamble's just like, fucking let's go. That's what I'm wondering. That's what I'm wondering. It's gone. Okay. I did. Oh, I was going to say if you had, and probably some of our listeners do this,

like if you were just pretty much engaging with television through the window of HBO, there would be just so many strange parallels. And it's not just Walton Goggins playing, you know, the Alpha and Omega of television and White Lotus into water skiing nude and then becoming a teen Jesus. It would also be like if you'd watch Gemstones last week. And I trust me, if you're one of the listeners who's just like, I've heard that show's good. I think I'll watch it. I'm going to fast forward the spoiler. It's okay.

Because I think it will make you want to watch the show more. if I say last week when Uncle Baby Billy and Eli were tied up in the back of the Gator Park. Yeah. And they discovered the Mercedes-Benz dealer Big Dick Mitch also tied up. He was tied up and nude kind of like the scar guy. Yes. Yeah. And didn't work out great for either of those guys.

In fact, ended similarly. But I prefer the righteous gemstones way of handling it. Do you want to talk about the gemstones now? I think we should. The playoffs are here, and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul Predicts. Follow all the playoff dishes, swishes, wishes, wishes, and misses. Predict the spread, the total points, and even the game winner. Sign up for Fandual Predicts and predict it from the couch.

Offered by Fandual Prediction Markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant. 18 plus. Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. manage your activity with our consumer protection tools. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Ever have a plan come together out of nowhere and realize you're missing something? Like a last minute beach day, a spontaneous hike or an outdoor movie night you didn't plan for,

that's when Prime's same-day delivery as you're back. Getting you exactly what you need fast and reliably so you can actually join the moment instead of watching from the sidelines. Same day delivery, it's on Prime. Visit Amazon.com slash Prime. to find millions of items delivered fast, available in select areas, terms apply. This episode is brought to you by the Active Cash Credit Card from Wells Fargo.

That's a mouthful, but that's because it packs a lot in. Earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases with it, big or small. So whether it's buying tickets at the game or grabbing a coffee, it earns unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases. Say it with me, the Active Cash Credit Card from Wells Fargo, be a 2%er. Learn more at Wells Fargo.com forward slash active, Cash, terms apply.

The playoffs are here, and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul predicts. Follow all the playoff dishes, swishes, wishes, wishes, and misses. Predict the spread, the total points, and even the game winner. Sign up for Fandual Predicts and predict it from the couch. Offered by Fandual Prediction Markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant, 18 plus. Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. manage your activity with our consumer protection tools. This series came to a conclusion last night with a 50-minute episode

that I thought had some of like the best moments and best lines of the season. I particularly appreciated this to be a show where one man can congratulate his father on still being able to do comes. And I don't really know if there was that much story to tell even from the beginning of this season in retrospect. The Lori plot and the quote-unquote mystery around what was going on there. And I don't even know if the gold Bible for me really wound up paying off. Certainly to not for Corey.

It was like kind of in that spot where like this show could have gone on for 12 or 20 years. Like it's always sunny and you could have just kept having these crazy kids get together. Yeah. And get kidnapped and then get rescued. I think it ended in the right place. What did you think of the finale? what did you think of this last season? I agree with you.

I think, though, my zag on this is I thought, generally speaking, this season was a mess. I loved every episode and I loved watching it. I think it's a mess for reasons that give me some optimism and the ending it gives me some optimism. We don't presume to know Danny McBride well. We have interviewed him a few times. But I think I speak for both of us.

We love him and we love his creative mind. and his humor, but also his artistic and aesthetic ambition. And when we talked to him, we were talking mostly about that Bradley Cooper opening episode because that was what had aired at that point. What I kind of feel like I felt in this season was someone. And he said to us and he said to others that he didn't even tell the cast that he had kind of decided this was it until the end, which meant that it was an ongoing, he was sort of seeing how it was going and seeing, you know, trying to do an honest assessment of an audit of what they had made for this season.

I feel like the tension was, do I want to keep fun in, or do I want to push a little bit further? And that's kind of been the story of his career, right? Of like, we could just do, I could just do Kenny Powers bits forever. 10 years, yeah. But maybe I want to make something it feels more like a movie. And with Gemstones, the fun tension over the years that were always okay because of the jokes was that like, what if I wanted to do a, you know, a flashback 70s wrestling thing?

What if I wanted to do as Southern Fried Gothic over the top horror movie at times or action movie? And this felt like the show kind of ran out of gas, like for what he wanted to do with it. And the emotion that it sometimes went for in the finale, I felt was the best that it could do with the show. Sure. But maybe there's more to do for him. And so it was the appropriate place to end because the other choice was, to your point, it could have just been them ripping each other for four more years. and would we have liked that? Yeah, I think he wanted to do something more.

I think I really would have just watched E.D. Patterson and Tim Balls for years. I thought every episode had a chuckle to a full-on. I need to rewind that and hear that again. Something strange happened in this season in particular, even though he's been part of the show for, it's almost in its entire run, is that I felt like Gaggins was like Miles Davis. And it was almost too good.

I agree. Do you understand? Like, I know this weird, but he was like doing, it was like watching Daniel Day Lewis just be on a comedy. Yes. And you hear stories about Goggins being like, I showed up to the set of gemstones, and I was just like my emotional tank was empty from doing White Lotus.

And I really didn't think I had any juice left. And then you see what he does. And I don't think a baby Billy show would have worked. But baby Billy show would have worked. But baby Billy was so fully realized and so committed that it almost like daunted like John Goodman. I think it did. And I think that you can, we have to give Gagons all the credit. But I also think that Danny McBride looks at this and sees what, what room there is for that character to grow or what sort of fuels the character and not just, what does he say, an eight ball and two million dollars?

like you're 100% right. Like it was a weird thing last week where all Macs subscribers got an email saying you know, praise he, the show is over and we all thought it was done. But it wasn't. But I'm sure many people thought last week's episode could have been a finale

because it was very baby Billy centric. Yeah. And he was very absent in this episode other than realizing that he didn't want to get on a cross he wanted to raise his kids. So that was good. But I think that Danny McBride saw that character and where he had to go.

And then I think you probably saw another year of, do I break up these siblings? Or do I have them say mean stuff to their dad and act like children again? And it would be funny and they would come up with new scenarios and new monkeys or whatever.

But it's ultimately kind of limited. Whenever you got a monkey, you know that things are... Do you ever a monkey on a roughhouse show? It's going to go well. So I don't put a grudge any of it. Did any part of you think the show is going to end

with Corey killing the gemstone kids? No, and I think that was also... This is such a weird comment. But like, it kind of robbed the finale of some juice for me, because so definitively was he not going to do that? And also, frankly, like, he's the real villain all along felt a little soft. The show, and I wonder, I'm just, this is just idle speculation,

but I wonder if there was some budget stuff this year, because past seasons have had a lot of monster truck stuff and a lot of, like, bigger set pieces. Well, this season felt a lot more limited to very, very, very, specific family dynamic. I think they got the lake house. They have the mega church. They had a couple of other things,

but there was not, I think they spent a lot of money on the Civil War. I think they did. And I think that they made choices and it worked and I think they decided or the jury's out whether it, quote unquote,

worked or not, but they decided that the engine of this season would be should John Goodman get to have sex again. He did comes. He did him. He did a lot of them. So they're like,

oh, well, it's actually her ex-husband is a, she's a villain. No, the ex-husband's a villain. No, it was the son. Yeah. And then she's like, boy, that really sucked the way my son killed my husband. And then my boyfriend's son shot my son in the head, but not fatally, but then ultimately fatally. And then she's like, let's go on a boat together. It's a lot of gymnastics to get to a place that felt fine. But I continue to think it's a credit to the show, which is one of the funniest shows of the decade that we're debating it a little bit. Well, I think that there was like a runaway kind of like, is this actually better

than succession. Or, like, more astute about power and family. And, you know, that's a silly binary to exist in. But I do think at its best, the show even transcended, like,

the comic parts about it. It did. But, yeah, I highly, if you're listening to this and you even watch Horaceous Gemstones, like you're missing out, you should check it out.

I mean, that's what a weird thing to say. You're a big fan. I mean, E. E.D. Patterson, as Judy is, and Walden Goggins's, is baby Billy are,

Hall of Fame. Hall of Fame characters. It's always funny. It's just one of the purest funny, purest comedic shows on television. But I feel like we don't know what they're going to do next. Danny McBride and Edie Patterson

are attached to develop this Southern Book Club's Guide to Vampires novel that came out a year ago. That was announced. So that might be an extension of the brand or at least they're still working together. Personally, I like to view him as a long-term autore. Me too.

All of these shows are of a piece, and I can't wait to see what the next chapter is. Let's briefly... Oh, can I say one thing? Yeah. Christina Flannery, the costume designer of this show, low-key MVP. Oh, the Michael Jackson outfit? Everything. Like, just squeezing Jesse into those pork pie hats and Judy wearing like a wizard robe.

Yeah, all the, like, the secret society of preachers. The cap and pistol stuff. And, like, Calvin's $5,000. shirt. But that was also an example of like I feel like they building up to that for like seven episodes and then it was like a

22nd kind of. The Cape and Pistol thing. Yeah. Yeah, it wasn't, you know, it was like, and also part of what the show does is like Sean William Scott and Steven Dorff are going to show up and be really funny and surprise us

or remind us of what they're good at. And it's good. But it did feel the season felt. I mean, it didn't feel as sharp which maybe is what Danny was feeling and why it was time to pull the plug. Let's talk a little bit

about Conan O'Brien special on Netflix. Can't believe you fired it up. Dude, I did the work. I had such a weird evening. I needed a laugh. So it was Conan O'Brien, the Kennedy Center, Mark Twain Prize for American Humor, and it went up on Netflix on Friday.

Over the weekend, for sure. Yeah, over the weekend. This, as you may know, the Kennedy Center is going through some changes under the Trump administration. So that's sort of the premise of this special is that despite knowing what was going on?

What was going? No, no, it's like Trump's been elected and they decide to do it as like a last gas, right? I think that this was filmed like two months ago so it was already happening.

Okay. I thought it was shot in November. Maybe he got the award in November and they shot the like... Yeah, there was a question whether they were going to go through with it. It's actually set in 2003. I don't know if you're looking

at the Last of Us video game and Wikipedia. I actually just Googled Conan O'Brien, Jakarta, question mark. And what I've gotten back is frankly shocking.

Yeah, there's no like... Is it a studio Ghibli animation of Kogan O'Brien? Eating a mushroom? Being like Bamba, yeah. So you've seen the Studio Ghibli AI theft. You've not seen a Studio Ghibli movie. I saw Porcaroso. I told you that. You watched it over a child's shoulder.

We don't have to do this bit again. I promise you before the quarter steps rise, I will watch a St. That said, I did text you that the happiest viewing experience, other than mainlining and or the happiest viewing. experience of the last few weeks was this thing. Talk to me about it. I just, so the, these Mark Twain prizes have been the 20 plus years, they've been giving them away, and I've engaged with some of them. Like, I remember watching the Tina Fey one. I just thought this was a really smart by Netflix and Ted Sarandos, who, who you love, who I just support and I love tariffs be damned. No, like, I find his

engagement with comedy interesting. Yeah. Like, he, uh, you know, went to the S&L. 50th. He really, that part of the business seems to still very much animate him. Yes, very much so. And having Malaney be a show, like, it's because he also believes in the power of having a Letterman or Conan type person doing a talk show. There's a lot of speculation that, um, that he wants to step in and like basically steal Saturday Night Live as a concept and juice. I don't mean like steal the show. It's once Lauren retires. He might start as SNL competitor. Launch a competitor. And that's, so, so him making the Mark Twain prize a show that is on Netflix. and him being in the audience for this.

Correct. I thought was interesting, but also just a really, really successful gambit because it was just as an hour, hour and a habit is a total joy to watch. Like, just pure comedy,

like Malini crushes it. Tracy Morgan, Sarah Silverman, Adam Sandler, destroys Bill Burr. I got to say, man, I really enjoy Nikki Glazer. She's great. She was having a great moment.

She was so good at that bit. Yeah. And so pure comedy, watch this, it's great. Secondarily, I am an absolute emo sucker for watching people show themselves a little bit more and be slightly earnest interspersed with. This is why it's important to you that the Eagles linebacker core are also your friends. Yes, a million percent. For what it's worth, I just saw, all right, I was listening to the Lonely Island, Seth Myers and Lonely Island podcast they do. And our colleague at the ringer, Amy Poehler, was a guest.

And they were talking about her last appearance on Weekend Update, and they clipped it. It's on Instagram. You can watch it. But she specifically says that her favorite sensation in the world is when something is heartfelt and then gets cut a little bit by a hard joke. And that's kind of what this experience watching this thing was. It's like there's the at once experience of Conan O'Brien coming on in 1993.

Malini talks about watching the first episode. Like, I remember watching that also. and finding, you know, in college being like, what are they getting away with? What are they doing? And having that informed my sense of comedy or what was possible. The feeling of, oh, now we're just giving awards to this

because it's three decades old. That's a tough one. But also kind of moving to see people from such disparate backgrounds, like game recognizing game. It's a little bit like a legends game in the NBA or something of like people from different generations saying,

I see you, I see what made you special, I see what made you funny. I love it. I'm a sucker for it. I thought it was beautifully done, very sweet. And then also at the end, Conan really, really delivers and gives a speech that is very funny, that is also very relevant,

and then is both undercut and then lifted up by some really exquisite silliness. Yeah. And I'm honestly not kidding when I say that I feel like when the shit really hits, like being able to laugh and have strong non- cynical feelings will be more useful. than having, you know, rifles, at least until the gulags open.

But do you know what I mean? Like, I genuinely found this to be a more moving, cultural, and artistic representative of a small type of no hashtag resistance. Yeah. Than making shows about like, actually, the end of the world's going to be mushrooms. It's going to be shit. But don't worry. If we're tough enough, we'll survive. Like, I just, I'm just kind of sick of that type of dystopia.

You love to laugh, man. It's okay. I love it. We got it. We have to. Yeah. What else? What else can we do?

Well, according to Isaac Dixon, we could do all sorts of stuff. Show me what else we can do again? I want the gift. Can we start doing gifts now? Yeah, I can't put it any better than that. I have not somebody who's super well-versed in Conan lore, so some of the like, in 93 this blew everybody's minds. Like, I wasn't really...

You weren't all about that masturbating bear life? I just didn't really participate in late-night shows. It's kind of a blank spot for me. Did you need to go to bed early to make? make the bus for baseball? Like, what was your late-night regime? Why didn't you engage? I don't really remember what I would do at night, honestly.

Okay. I don't remember. Like, there wasn't like a hard bedtime. Were you Spider-Man? What you mean? What was your 90- I don't remember what I did at night? Do you know what it's just like sometimes?

Yeah. I think I played a lot of video games. Like, I think I was really, really playing whatever in 93 I had. Like, Strider on Genesis? And then in 94, it was like, hello ladies, you know? So there is. Hello? I'm fucking around.

All the ladies were watching the dancing Edo's on Leno every night, you know? I don't know how you kept up. You know what? Honestly, that did kind of turn me off. I was like, this shit is so stupid every single night. I can't watch any of these guys. The OJ coverage. But I'm like the same thing for Letterman. I did not have like a deep relationship with Letterman.

No, I think we were just, I don't want to speak. I mean, I'm sure there people already who did this, but like when you hear people like, well, Conan certainly, or Bill, when he talks about like

discovering Letterman when it was the coolest, secretest thing. I was, I think we were too young to stay up that late then in the early 80s. And so,

but I was, when Mullaney's making these jokes in this thing about how like, he, like what kind of 14 year old should know that Conan was originally on a series of 13 week contracts.

That was so fucking funny. But that was also me. Like I was reading TV guide for the article is being like, oh, it seems like there's troubles brewing at Peacock Factory in Burbank. Like I was not talking to ladies. I was like, goodbye ladies. Where are you going?

Don't you understand? 13 weeks are not normal even in this business plagued by massive turnover. I was very aware of the narrative that like someone was being given a shot here and it might be a little bit risky or different. I was like, I should like risky and different. But I did

find Conan show particularly like in the when he found his stride. Was the Nikki Glazer joke about how, like, how did I miss this for five years when her father showed for the five-year anniversary? And her father's like, it's only been good for two. That element of like that, that, that in Smigel and like all the other writers that were involved in it were really, really informative. And I think it is, it also appeals to that sense of like, you know, the old, the old adage about like how, you know, 60 people bought the Velvet Underground record, but they all form bands. like being able to see the roots and the connections between people.

The feeling if somebody was getting away with something. I can't believe they're putting this on TV. I also, this is definitely going to alienate some of our youth listeners. Because I'm sure we're getting more and more by the week. But it's wild to have seen like award ceremonies or prizes given or old roasts, you know, and there was like a older generation. and then now Letterman, who was the young buck, is the eminence grease of this,

and everyone stands to applaud him and makes jokes about how old he is. And then you realize that every generation, to the degree that they're talented and of good communal spirit and survive, is perfectly equipped to be the old elder statesman and to care about something and to look after each other.

Just getting old helps, yeah. Getting old helps. That's our lesson. Kaya may not believe it, but as our youth correspondent, I thought it was really fun, and it just made me happy. People can check that on Netflix.

We will be talking about Andor episode 6 through 9 on Thursday. This is going to be big. That's a big conversation. Big conversation. I wore my Gorman jacket today, just in honor. I can tell. The twill is immaculate. Thanks to Kaya, thanks to John.

We'll be back on Thursday. We do more politics on Thursday. I bet we will. Enjoy more ways to save at Ralph's, like low prices in every aisle. And when you download the Ralph's app, you can clip and save more with digital coupons every week. Plus, you can urge you. fuel points to save up to $1 per gallon at the pump. At Ralph's, you can enjoy more ways to save and more rewards every time you shop. So it's always easy to save big every day with savings

and rewards. Ralph's, SoCal for over 150 years. Savings may vary by state. Fuel restrictions apply. See site for details.