The Watch - ‘The Last of Us’ S2E3, ‘The Studio’ Episode 6, and ‘Your Friends & Neighbors’ Episode 4

Episode Date: April 28, 2025

Chris and Andy talk about the latest episode of ‘The Last of Us’ and how the show is picking up the pieces after a major character death (1:00). Then they talk about the latest episode of ‘The Studio’ and this episode’s similarities to ‘Curb Your Enthusiasm’ (45:05), as well as the last few episodes of ‘Your Friends & Neighbors’ (50:15). Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Senior Producer: Kaya McMullen Video Production and Editing: Marcelino Ortiz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hello, and welcome to The Watch. is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at the ringer.com and joining me in the studio still waiting for his turn at the post-invasion town council meeting. It's Andy Greenwald. Hey everyone. More of a comment and a question.

Hey, Maria. I know we've got a lot of things going on, but I would love it if people could remember to use the correct recycling bag. I thought we were composting now. Did you, we were going to talk about last of us. Composting, though. Great call. Great call. And are we sure composting didn't lead to this whole thing in the first place?

That's what I've been saying. Have you? To myself? Okay. Yeah. Hey, what's up? It's Monday. Hey. We're here. We're Andy and Chris. Two TV talking guys. And we're going to hit Last of us today. A little bit of this dude, studio, friends and neighbors. Two Apple TV projects that we're very excited about. Greenwald, how are you doing? I'm great, but I want to turn the, I know you hate it. I want to swing. the camera back to you. Do you think I hate it? You shy away from the limelight sometimes. You, Chris, and Sean, who is currently sending us a lot of friendly texts about Sequin Barclay. Meeting with Donald Trump?

Yeah. So. He golfed him. I mean, it's just golf. Sometimes you get paired with a guy. You know? Let me tell you something. I think I've golfed with a lot worse guys. You know what I miss?

I've golfed with a lot of his fans. as well, you know? Do you know what I miss? One of the great things, and I feel like our listeners will appreciate this, one of the great things about being friends with you over the years has been, you know, sometimes you go out in the front lines

of parts of the world and society that I don't go or I am not welcome. What does that mean? No, like you would, one of my favorite genres of stories from you, well, like the Def Haven concert the other week. You would have been welcome there? No, okay, but I didn't want to go.

But thank you for the invitation. My point is, a couple years ago, you would sometimes, like, go to the gym and play pickup basketball, and you'd come back with these stories of just getting threes rained down upon you by suburban guys with like hair transplant scars, and it was awesome. And now I feel like I'm missing out on the contemporary equivalent, which is your golf pairings with MAGA guys. I mean, it happens.

You don't get to fill out a survey before you sign up for your tea time. You just like, you line them up and you're like, so tariffs, huh? Is that what you do? No, it just comes out naturally over the course of a round where just one guy brings up a hot topic. And yeah, one thing I will say is nobody seems to be able to stay off of it, you know? What topics? Hot topics? Yeah, because I think there used to be probably topics that you could be like, let's just talk about like this Wolf's Lakers series and somehow politics would still get brought into it.

Yeah, you say that. But every time you were at a bar in the early 2000s, you would just talk about campus life and academic freedoms and be like, here he goes again ahead of his time. Anyway, all of this was intended to say, you and Sean got to go in the Criterion Clause this weekend. I'm so jealous. Going to the mobile criterion closet. That hasn't dropped yet. No.

It was on Instagram, so you're not revealing anything. But on Sunday, Sean was doing kind of like a video, some video stuff. And also saying hi to folks who are waiting online for hours outside of Vidiots to go to the criterion mobile closet. You could go in and pick up a little. a few things and take pictures and stuff like that. But it was really like... That's so cool.

A gathering of the juggalo's when it came to letterboxed heads. It was pretty awesome, you know? Did you have a plan? Like, you must have thought about this. Well, here's the thing is I wasn't sure if we were going in. I thought we were just like hanging out. And second of all, I didn't realize that it was organized by catalog number. So you don't walk in and you're like, oh, of course, we're going under the influence right here.

You know, like you're kind of like, uh, you're kind of like, uh, and looking around and scanning and scanning and scanning. They don't tell you that. No. I mean, like, I think, Sean, I think people know if they know. Sean also knows the catalog numbers by heart. But we helped each other a little bit by being like, you know, what's one thing that is not super, like, popular that you want to get? And I grab pale flower.

I mean, you'll see. But like, I... Great movie. Yeah, it's a great movie. That's so cool. Big influence on Tokyo Vice. Really? Yeah.

That's one of my favorite movies. And yet I never actually watch that show. Sorry. And you wonder why you weren't invited into the classic? I wasn't invited golfing. I do wonder, and this is not a conversation for today necessarily, but there are certain things where it's like when I was a kid, for example, there were a lot of Nickelodeon game shows where they were basically all supermarket sweeps,

but sometimes they were like in toy stores. And I spent hours being like, okay, if I ever get this opportunity, what's my strategy? Have you thought about that for the criteria? That's what I'm saying. I feel like there are things now in modern life where one has to have a strategy, even if one is likely never to be asked. One would be Criterion Clause. One would maybe be subway takes.

Have you seen these videos? I've seen those, yes. I don't know if you. I mean, you give takes away for a living. Well, yeah, I think I also got off my best takes on the hottest take. Do you don't think you could recycle them? I wouldn't. I would never.

You're a professional. God, I love it. Something of a Ronin when it comes to my opinions. I didn't want to revisit that too soon, but I have gotten a lot of positive feedback from the Japanese language admiring society of, English speakers. What about Japanese language speaking society? They've been quiet.

They've been quiet, but I don't know. Much like Groneen. They keep it to themselves. It's true. It's true. All right. Well, back to business. Okay. Why don't we jump on? I haven't seen sinners yet. Sorry, I will see it soon. I just feel like I should tell people because that's what you want to talk about. No, I've talked about sinners on podcasts. I was just, I wanted you to have it for your, you know, recommended cultural breakfast.

You know, like you need it so that you can competently comment on like cinema to come, you know, and the box office and the state of Hollywood. I'm thrilled by its box office resilience. Yeah. I do love a resilient box office story. A second weekend to behold. It is a, I mean, that is super nerdy, but actually pretty impressive. I want to talk to you about The Last of Us.

So do I. Okay. So obviously last week, this huge momentous. episode. And obviously we are spoiling Last of Us Previous and present if you haven't caught up on it. This is the first

episode with a post-Jol show, a post-Pedro Pascal show, and also for the fictional world of the show, a post-Jol landscape. You know, it's essentially you know, Anthony Edwards is sat down and now

Nikiel Alexander Walker or whoever you want to compare Ellie to is got to take the ball. You have to understand here. I thought you were talking about ER. I thought you were talking about the actor. Yeah. And I was like, he did leave the show after 11 seasons and I guess Noah Wiley stepped up. Or I was like, is he going for goose and top gun? Any, my, my wolf's metaphor was strained. I think that I have a more strained NBA metaphor coming up. Okay. So go on. Let's do general thoughts. I think we can get into like some nitty gritty plot stuff here.

and I have a couple of fun questions about therapy and city government. But tell me what you thought of the episode and tell me what you, where you kind of see the show right now because it is a huge turning point. I want to make sure we have enough space to wander, almost as if we're wandering from Wyoming to Washington State, to talk about this both in terms of like the experience of watching this show and judging this episode of the show. And then the larger conversation about attempting something like this in midstream

and what it means just in terms of the construction and scaffolding of show. The former, I think that argument is probably going to be a little more nuanced and positive than my reaction to the former question because I thought, broadly speaking, I thought this was the weakest episode of the series to date, mainly because it's not just that it lacked action. I'm not just a juice head. Like, that's not what I need out of the show. But it really was just like a massive reaction, retrenchment and then almost hyper speed. Okay, but now this is where we're going. So again, I think that there's arguments to be made for why it's constructed that way

and the benefits of just ping ponging into something new before the episode ended. But in terms of the lived experience of watching it, I thought it was pretty rough. Do you think you're reacting maybe to what I felt like was like a significant departure from the visual language of the previous episode? Which makes sense, you know, Mark Milo brought in and doing his... Yeah, yeah. know, kind of a little bit more verity, a little bit more jittery, obviously of huge set pieces in that episode. But I found this almost disarmingly or disorientingly flat and bright and static. Yeah, I mean, directed by Peter Hoare, whose work we've loved, he directed It's a Sin,

the AIDS Crisis British show that we raved about a couple years ago. I thought that some of the landscape photography of this episode was really beautiful and honestly kept it afloat for me. Travelog stuff is cool. But I think you're right to point out that last week's episode was compelling on a number of levels. It got a lot of attention for the shock and the plot, but the visual storytelling was absolutely elite. And so, and it suited that episode. So it's going to be jarring on a number of levels. I think we can't, we can get into the weeds with it, but I feel like we have to of address the bigger thing, which is, and here's my strained NBA metaphor, this episode was a little bit like the 24-25-6ers in that the big man went down early and maybe the kids weren't

where we thought they were. No, when you say big man, do you, are you referring to the all three players, middle linebackers, middle linebacker zombie who got incinerated? Oh, that's big man? Yeah. No, I think we got him at the end of the first round, actually. That's right. I think that the Joel absence is really significant. The show is built around, and of course it is. I mean, that's nobody's denying that the show is presented as a two-hander, and now we just got the one hand now.

I think that it is a very, very challenging absence to work around. The main reason why is, before we even talk about Bella Ramsey, I want to talk about Ellie as a character. And correct me if I'm wrong, maybe you've spent more time rewatching the first season. But in my experience watching the show, the Ellie character has been almost entirely reactive. Maybe the exception is the mall episode

where we learned, you know, it's more of an origin story of her trauma and things like that. But she is often everything, most of the things that she's done is she's been, she's the package, she's being transported. She's the special one. She's everything. She's the potential.

She's the avatar. She's the Christ. She's the Messiah. She's really pissed off at all of these things that keep happening to her. And I think we touched on this last week. There might be a really interesting character arc as the reactor becomes the actor. As the person who had the privilege of being annoyed by everything and put out by things has to take on more of the responsibility and burden. But I'd feel like the show hadn't coached her up to that.

that level as a character to hang it on her shoulders. And I also felt like, again, late season Sixers where they were just running out 10-day contract guys being like, maybe someone here will spark the show because of the pre-existing video game and the narrative direction that it has to go in. And by the way, I have no doubt that like the action will come fast and furious next week and there'll be a whole different thing, set of circumstances to talk about. But like, settle in pretty early at the backcourt of Ellie and Dina. And I was like, maybe we need some more... Well, it's interesting you should bring that up.

Maybe we need some more people taking shots here. I don't know if that is how the game did it. There's definitely been some re-engineering of what Tommy is present for versus what Dina is present for. Yes, I did some reading. Tommy was present for the golf game in the video game. He was. He was in the gallery. Yeah. Is that a golf term?

Yeah. Thank you. That's an interesting point that you make. you know, I didn't necessarily feel, if anything, I felt like this episode was the first version of, and obviously so, the first

episode of Last of Us 2.0, which is not Last of Us 2, the video game, but a new version of this show. And what we're kind of seeing is this accelerated version of something say Lost did very well, which is all of a sudden you blink and it's a different show with a different cast.

Now there may be some remnants of the first version of it and there are some ideas that are consistent throughout. But in the same way that, you know, you had Jeremy Davies and Elizabeth Mitchell kind of... There's the tailies, then there's the whole other... Yeah. You now are getting introduced to the sort of, you know,

Krishna guys who are like, hammer Krishna's. Do we know anything about them? I do, but not only with it. This is where I want to kind of go with this conversation. There's the people who are walking the... the path out in Washington and are attacked. There's all these allusions to and finally a glimpse of the Washington Liberation Front. There's a little bit of an expansion of the world beyond separate, like little side episodes,

whether it's the Melanie Linsky episode, Kansas City, or the Nick Offerman and Mary Bartlett episode from earlier in the season and any of the snapshots that we would get here and there. So I thought it was really interesting in terms of opening the app, which are obviously moving the action to the Pacific Northwest away from Wyoming. I thought it was very compelling that as Ellie and Dina are on their mission or on the road, we're not also cutting back to Jackson to be like, and how does the great work go on there? We've moved on. Yeah.

I mean, the show. But for the first two episodes, you know, we meet Jesse. We're getting a glimpse at like how things work in Jackson. Gail's drinking is proceeding at pace. Exactly. Yeah. I appreciate the show, maybe more than anything about the show. And I'm sure with our versions of this that we said in the first season,

I do appreciate its lack of sentimentality about how much time we have to spend places and where the more interesting parts of the story may lie. I think that's ultimately a really, really successful thing. I mean, I saw a funny interview with Pascal. I mean, it was, I think, part of the HBO materials, but he essentially admitted to taking this role because you knew it was finite. Oh, I'm sure. But that's a different relationship to a story-telling.

You're talking about Mandalorian role or this? He doesn't have to do anything. He's a king for his career choices. He's like voice notes. For real, though. Like, where's the baby Yoda? Who pays... Who spends more time on a project?

Pedro Pascal in the Mandalorian or Tony Dalton the time he was on our podcast from a balcony somewhere on his iPhone. Come on. Yeah. But he was kind of like, I wasn't being flipped, but he was just like, yeah, you know, when they told me how long I would have to be on the show, I took the role. because I obviously have nine other films coming out, but I don't think you're going to see someone like Pedro Pascal sign up for possibly eight years of a show. Correct.

That's a tell these days. Yeah. In any case, I thought it was, like I said, I thought it was fascinating that we basically turned the entire focus of the show to a different area and a different story. Let me ask you something about that idea. I'm going to say this carefully because I don't know how I feel about this, but it's something that I'm just trying to suss out and articulate.

You mentioned Lost, and Lost could swap casts in and out. It could change locations. It could do flashbacks. It could do flash forwards, flash sideways, introduce statues and all kinds of smoke monsters, all kinds of crazy things. But the central conceit of the show, guys, where are we, stayed throughout. the Walking Dead, to which the show is compared favorably or not favorably, but you kind of have to bring it into the conversation,

did something at the time, which felt pretty radical, but then in retrospect actually was just a smart way to have a show run for many, many years with a lot of spinoffs, which is after the first, I think it's like in the, the first bunch of mini episodes of Walking Dead, they're trekking to the CDC, and they're not trekking far, right? Because the show starts in Atlanta, I believe. And they get there, Noah Emmerich is there. And there's... Isn't the CDC in Atlanta?

It's... C.D.C. Yeah. Yes. The CDC is in Atlanta. Let's stop there. Are they going to D.C.? No, maybe. I don't remember... Regardless.

They're going to find out what happened. Somewhere in the ACC or the SEC. It is not that much of a conference. And with the transfer portal these days, really? Is anyone anywhere? My point being, the first few episodes went right at a traditional movie framework, which is this crazy thing happened. And we've got to find out what it is.

and maybe we can reverse it. That episode establishes pretty definitively that we're not going to figure this out. This is done now. And so the show is going to be about struggling to make a new civilization or just struggling to survive.

The first season of Last of Us, based on a video game, and video games also have a final boss or forward momentum or goal, was this girl is the cure and we get her to the place and we fix the world. And then I imagine the game ends

like the first season. It's in a pretty dramatic surprising turn of events. One person is worth more than the potential savior of whatever, and there's this burden now and sets up the sequel. Since that happened, at least in the world of the show, I'm game agnostic. The idea of Ellie's abilities or the power of her blood or her immunity is quiet and secret,

and the purpose of the show went from she could save everyone to, we need to make a new life here, to now we need to get revenge for the guy. Right. the overstory of the show has changed pretty radically now. And I feel, I think, a little lost within that. Okay, so let's get to the conversation that I actually wanted to have. Okay. Do you have a feeling about that or is this connected?

It's connected. Okay. I've been thinking obviously a lot about this show in comparison to Andor just because they were both airing at the same time and they are two versions of doing world building. Andor I would compare more to like the Russian novel style where you have currently, I think, 20 meaningful characters operating in almost as many different planets, if not places. There is 12 hours or however many hours of information that you kind of have to be fluent with to remember, oh, this shipping lane.

She did that before. He's doing this now. This is bad for Bix because X, Y, and Z have happened. Brasso was doing this. you know, all this stuff that you're kind of always scanning, reading, processing. Ultimately, I think what happens is when you make a show in the style of Andor, or say, like, The Wire, then David Simon shows particularly do this, although I would say we own the city is different, where all the pieces matter to use the Simonism. And also, I think the more important thing than the emotional component is the overall statement it's making about,

how life works and what life is and what our time on the world is like. I think Craig Mason's project is far more interested in the emotional impact of events on characters and how those emotions motivate different actions. Right. Whereas I think Tony is almost looking at things

as like there is institutional pressure, institutional apparatuses that are pushing down on these people until they explode up. it's two different ways of telling a story but what Craig Mason is doing for instance is we get a shot of these people walking on a path shaved heads they look kind of cultish scarification

scarification talking about a prophet but he's like hiding it a little bit it's like we don't know who these people are we don't know why they're being hunted by wolves we don't know what side we're on we don't know what side we're on and I think that there is an effort to obscure and you know

kind of use suspense to kick it down the line a little bit and be like, oh, and we're going to find out who that profit was probably in a flashback episode. We still don't know who's this big bad person out in Seattle who's running the Washington Liberation Front, all this stuff. It's just two different ways of telling a story, but ultimately, like, I was trying to get my mind around, like, why is this Gail therapist character keep showing up when she doesn't seem like a very good therapist?

And now that we've left Jackson, I don't know if we're really going to learn much about this Eugene situation. Yeah. her husband who is Joel killed. And I think the reason for it is is that he wants people talking about their feelings. He wants the emotional content of the show to be way more front and center

than the how this world works part. I think that's very well observed and it's very generously observed. And I agree with you. And I think that, look, if you have Chernobyl on your resume, you're good. Yeah. And you have proven your commitment

not only to making something that is artistic, but something that is thoughtful, respectful, and deeply felt relating to tragedy, to world events, to how humans are inevitably the authors of our own downfall. And I think that when the show is at its best, he is able to find a rare marriage between the necessities of contemporary television slash video game plotting and extremity and the more internal types of stories that he wants to tell. I think it's significant that when people think about the first season of Last of Us, they talk about the Nick Offerman episode. Maybe I'm in the wrong group chats. Maybe people are like, that mushroom zombie attack was sick.

But I think that broadly speaking, what was most memorable and what felt most unique about that first season wasn't even just that episode. It was the structural audacity of putting that episode there as a marker of the type of show that it wanted to be, that it could be. that it would try to maybe experiment in getting closer to being on a more consistent basis. So I think your point is very well observed, but in this case, I think the institutional pressures that crush David Simon characters are operating on Craig Mason's Better Angels. Because I think that this is, look, and I say this as someone who literally lives inside a wooden horse every hour that he's not on this podcast. But this is a Trojan horse. we all are in a Trojan horse

get it type of industry right now people know what I'm I've used that analogy a hundred times but that like he's trying to sneak in a character based emotionally resonant

drama about trauma within a zombie video game adaptation now I know if there are gamer fans listening the game by all accounts is much much much more intelligent and thoughtful than other games might be and it's a painting with two broad a brush to say,

oh, it's just a, it's just a, you know, a kid's thing. I get all that. But this episode in particular should have been the one to really land that plane. I think it's interesting that it wasn't, that actually, for me, watching this episode, I felt the gears grinding more than I had in previous episodes because we had to start them here,

paying some service to what just happened. So we see Ellie screaming and, death and then three months later. And then now we're in a different place and now she's willing to eat a cookie and we're gardening and we're having council meetings again. And then we're off to the races, you know, and we're suddenly gallivanting across major swaths of the country in a eight-minute beautiful, truly beautiful landscape montage. That felt video gamey to me in an episode that really had the opportunity to be about regret and trauma and emotional reaction and all those things. Now, you could also say, and maybe we'll be able to say in the scheme of,

you know, in the fullness of time at the end of the season, that I don't think Ellie was really processing the trauma. Well, she's hiding it. And raced off and the eye for an eye, haemarabi vibes that are permeating some members of the council, including our guy, including our guy Seth. For a minute, I was like... Homop homerabi is in the building. Do you think Hamarabi was very liberal with his social policies?

It was funny because I was like, Robert Burke has to do something. You know, like, you don't bring him on. I loved how he got like mad old because of what happened. Yes. Oh, now he has that walking state. Yeah, and I thought he was great, but it was interesting because I was like,

I know Seth is going to have something to say here. Can I just sidebar? Robert Burke's star of one of my all. time favorite movies, Hal Hartley's Simple Men. And I do get the sense just from the times that it props up on my like social feeds that the Sonic Youth Dance sequence from Simple Men that features Seth has outlived perhaps Simple Men itself. And people should check out that movie. I think so. Yeah. That's an awesome scene. Anyway, I was excited. But, but, you know, maybe even that says something. Like I kind of was hoping Seth was saddling up too because I kind of wanted, okay, what are,

Help me find our show now with like a community or without the absence of Joel is it going to have to be a team effort, quite literally. And look, next week we may, I don't know, Jeffrey Wright might show up or I didn't watch the next on. But I know that there are a lot of other. Jeffrey Wright on the show now? Yeah. There are a lot of other great cast members showing up. Damn. And I know.

But also the first season established with Melanie Linsky and things like people can come on and do some good work and not necessarily. They can be there for a good time, not a long time. You know what I mean? Yeah. And we are, we've got Deaver Fever and she's waiting somewhere near the Space Needle. So there might be, I don't want to say I complain, but I was critical of the first episode because I was like, oh, are we just living in Jackson now? And clearly, no, we're not. Yeah.

So I don't, I don't mean to sound like I'm having it both ways, but I thought that this episode kind of was emblematic of an existential struggle of this show. Yeah. It's not my struggle with finding a reason to kind of enjoy it. Which is ongoing. Yeah, I think you're probably criticizing something a little bit more specific. I was merely like kind of drawing this comparison between the two ways of doing large-scale fictional world building. I went off on a tangent.

Let's go back to that. I don't know which one I prefer. You know, I think I prefer and or as a show. And it's not one or the other kind of conversation. But I was really interested in the choice. The way that Craig Mason probably has an answer for every single question. and Neil Druckman certainly does because it's the world he created and built up.

But I find myself very curious about like Fedra stuff, like just like little details of the world. You know? And that stuff did come up a bit in the Linsky, Kansas City run in the first season. And you can certainly go online and find out all you want to know about it, including like the detailed history of like what cities they took over and then what rebellions happened against them and all this other stuff. But I think in the,

Tony Gilroy version of the show, there's probably like a federal plot. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? There's probably like, what drove these people to be this way as much as just like self-evidently like these people are scarring each other, you know?

Let me say though, just in defense of Last of Us, one of the great benefits that Tony has in Andor is he is writing to an unknown end point. Yeah. not just the movie, but Star Wars. Like the Death Star that they're building, we know it's fate. And that allows him...

Still up there. You think it's still up there? Oh, wait, are you a conspiracy theorist? About Death Stars? They faked them out. Do you think Tyfighter fuel doesn't burn steel beams? Is that? Whoa.

What if the Gosling movie, it's just like somehow the Death Star has returned? That would not surprise me. That would so deeply not surprise. Somehow Luke Skywalker is young and hot again. What do you think of the name Star Wars Starfighter as the name of the movie? I think it sounds like an Andrew W.K. album title and I'm pro. It suggests to me that like the galaxy brain thinking,

the galaxy far, far away brain thinking maybe has been snuffed out a little bit over there. Yeah. And they're like, you know what's sick? Starfighting. Yeah. Like they should just call another one like Star Wars lightsaber. I know. I would definitely go.

Look how excited you got when I said that. Maybe they've learned their lesson. There's a moment in the accountant, too, where Ben Afflex characters swinging a fake lightsaber around, and I was like, this looks pretty good. They should make a movie about this. What if there was a Jedi accountant? Wait, the Jedi's were tax collectors in the first trilogy,

so I'm sure there's a Jedi accountant. Yeah, I'm just, I'm saying that, like, all the little filigries and detail that, Tony can do. I mean, first of all, you can't actually compare it to any other experience in TV, both because of who he is and the circumstance and the moment that that got greenlit and Kathy Kennedy letting him do everything. It's, it is one of one. I'm really not trying to be like, no, no, I know. But I think a defense of Mazin and Druckman, like they have an ending to their video game, I get the sense that they're pushing past that or they're aiming for something

bigger here, but they can't count on that for the large percentage of the audience that's engaging with the show. I'm also really curious about the idea of POV. I have to keep moving towards something. in this show. So obviously, for the most part, it was Ellie or Joel's point of view. When we have been in any one place with them, we have

expanded. This season has shown us a little bit of Abby and her thought process into what she did, but then cut that supply line off. I'm relatively sure that Caitlin Deaver will be back and that we will see more of this

character just based on what I know about the video game, but also about like just... Also, if you were spoiled by the trades as to what her next moves are. Why? What did it say? Well, the show was renewed. Let's put it that way. The Last of Us?

Yes. Yeah, I guessed. I hate doing the, like, what I would have done or what I would have liked is if you'd show me this, this or this. I was just very struck by the whole scene with the people

walking on that path outside of Seattle and how little we knew about what was happening and what was going on and we were just getting these little breadcrums and how different it is

from another style of storytelling that's also on TV. That's why I kind of brought all this up. I have some other questions I wanted to ask you about this show, though. Yeah, let's go. Do you think Gail is a bad therapist, A, B, intentionally trying to make the mental health of people of Jackson worse? C, has a grand plan and is just doing tough love or a certain school of therapy that's going to get everybody to the place they need to get. What about D? Did you also think that the only beer that survived the apocalypse was Grulsh?

Because of those very specific bottles? I think they're home brewing. I figured. Yeah. I have some questions about how many guns they have. I have so many questions about that. Whether they could afford to lose those to Ellie's magical adventure? I thought this too, but at the same time, I just think you can't ever, you can't go broke overestimating.

Did I get that right? How many guns, alcoholic beverages, and sick Philson and Wrangler fits there are? That was really funny when she started crying, holding the wax jacket. God damn, I'd cry over that jacket too. You've got to save that.

Take little golf club holes out of it. I think, now I'm thinking about everything you're asking me through the prism of your Craig Mason's Craig Mason's preferences. A show about the only therapist who survives the apocalypse, sign me up.

That's the show for me. That sounds amazing. And I think Catherine O'Hara is, by the way, is so good on this and just such a good actor and we rarely get to see her be straight to this drama. I think she's being put in it as character-wise. It's like she's just there so that people say the things that they're feeling. And to get exposition moving along.

This is why I don't go to therapy, though. That's why you do a podcast. I'm not interested in participating in that kind of plot armor. Plot armor. Good for you. Does Joel's jacket count as plot armor? That's a good question. I guess my answer to that is we don't know because as much as they try to dress it up and this is the thing with the show, right?

It's the best possible casting for it. It's the most interesting way into her life and her experience by making her a widow and Joel killed her husband. and she's an alcoholic and she has, you know, so it's the most interesting version of someone who doesn't actually get to have that much depth because the show doesn't have the real estate to investigate. We actually don't know what anyone is bringing to her or saying to her,

or if the majority of her sessions end with some feeling of release or a hug or an accusation that she's drunk. It's just she's a liar. Joel was hiding something. Come, come crack a grouch with me. Do you think that the reason why she seems intent on unlocking the secrets of Joel and Ellie are related to what Joel did to Eugene? Or do you think she's just an ump and she's calling balls and strikes? No, I mean, I think that the project of the show suggests that like everyone has their own relatively petty motivation.

Not petty, but like human motivations for doing everything that they do, even altruistic concerns. I am, I mean, the lingering question about the show for me, maybe this is on your list, is like, okay, so now who, I guess Ellie's not going to find out what Joel did until Abby tells her, basically. Like, so that then it complicates. I think Ellie is deep down aware of what Joel did. It's something, yeah.

Yeah, I think that she was in and out of consciousness during that experience, obviously she was sedated. The first one, yeah. Yeah, when she was being taken out of Salt Lake City. she asks Joel straight up to his face like what happened but I think that there's a suggestion that there's something uneasy about that and that's why she was maybe not on the best terms of Joel as he as he died and also like she seems to have a sneaking suspicion that there's more to like the story

what does it say about me can't wait that when Dina greets Ellie with the cookies and is like, here's the logo of the guys who got Joel. I was like, that's a cool logo. I've been waiting this whole podcast to ask if you had any Washington Liberation Front seven inches. I've been waiting to find my team in this show. Yeah, here we go. This is why I keep showing up. What a diverse-looking, fun group of people walking through the streets of Seattle, a city I love.

First of all, this is reminiscent of your flirtation with the city of Portland. where you're like, maybe I should live there. Like, you are always coming home. Yeah, to myself. To yourself in the Pacific Northwest. There's no, no, no question. My takeaway from that scene with Dina was, my God, I don't remember what we talked about

on this podcast 10 minutes ago. She, three months later, has complete recall of everyone's name. Yeah, she should be a court illustrator. Like, she did a great job. It's unbelievable. Yeah. Like, real talk. Like, at our ages,

when people introduce themselves to you, what's the percentage you catch the name? Well, I also am going deaf. So a lot of the times, it's like, that was either Caitlin or Charles. Like, I have no idea. Like, I, it's just like, it kind of goes in and I'm like, I think I got that.

But a lot of that is death heaven's fault, you know? Wow. So this is in the last two weeks? I am in death heaven. All right. Yeah. Yeah, I just thought that was like, that was another snapshot. of like a whole other part,

you know, a colder corner of this world that I was really fascinated by. It is also odd, like, the plan is a wild one. If they're like, we're going to a major

metropolitan area to find one mean lady who's part of a big team. I think, well, first of all, they seem to assume WLF is not

that brolic. And I think this is what happens when teenagers call the shots. It's like, they get a little, there we go. little puffed up, and they're like, we got this.

All we need is, like, one rifle. It's like, about to run into quite a defense. Do you think kids who have survived the mushroom apocalypse have the same water bottle dependency that my kids and contemporary kids have? No, because Seth's like here have some hard tack. I know, I was like, really? Yeah, and some chlorine tablets.

You guys seem to have all the creature comforts of home. You can't, like, slip a Pop-Tart in there? Hard tack. Yeah, and then that brings me my last question is, who would you have been in the council meeting? Oh, thank you for asking. I actually took a screenshot. There was, I don't know if you noticed,

how many people are on the council 14? Eight. Something like that? No, it's big. Oh, they lose eight three. They lose the votes, but anyway, it's over 10. Yeah. One of the more interesting developments of this podcast

as we enter year 14 is that we can no longer count. We're just, no one will ever know how many episodes were in White Lotus season three. There's no way to ever possibly ascertain how many people are on the council. Who cares? I don't know if you notice,

but I believe he's sitting just to the, if you're facing the council, as we would be as just members of the society, just to the right of Jesse, there is a guy who kind of looks like

the Verizon guy. Oh, yeah. But maybe he shops, you know, on Larchmont. Uh-huh. And his whole shit is, huh, that's a little concerning. That's his whole entire shit.

I'm sure he's just like, he's a Canadian extra, or maybe he's an actor and you got to, you know, and they were like, don't speak because we have to pay you more or whatever. But that was entirely me. And I want to know everything about that guy's ability to be on the council. Yeah. Did you have to get elected? Did he glad hand? Or was he just like, sure?

Did they have a influx of new faces because other council members were killed? Oh, damn. Obviously, Jesse is taking over, like, he's showing that his physicality surpassed Tommy. He was able to hammer. He was hammering. Hammer foundation. Do you think that there's any element of nepotism? Like were some of these the children of the fallen?

That's a good question. Do you know what I mean? It's like the foster sisters are up there. Yeah. Right? Or like, yeah, I think. Or like when Menendez's wife tried to run for his Senate seat or whatever. Do you think it's kind of like that?

Did she do that? Sure. No, no, she didn't. The governor's wife tried to run. And your guy Andy, Kim was like, I don't think so. Okay. My guy.

I'm not really that up on New Jersey politics. This is a win for you considering we were talking about your opinion on campus activism a moment ago. I'm trying to just muddy the picture. Because part of the legend, right, is no one really knows what's in the portfolio

we're all dragging before. No one knows exactly where you land on the spectrum. I'll golf with anyone. You will golf like Sequin Barkley in so many ways. You've lived in New York. You've lived in Philadelphia and you'll golf with anyone. Anyway, to say is that's my guy. And I was staring at him the entire time.

I really enjoyed the guy who was just like, I'm taking this opportunity to talk about my favorite crops. Yes. That was a very funny bit. Yeah. That reminded me of Parks and Rec Council meetings. I like that. I would have been interesting if they had tried to double down on the disorientation on pushing viewers after such a difficult previous episode. I was going back and looking at looking at some, how did other great shows follow up great episodes? Hmm. I think it varies from show to show, you know, after Conner's wedding is the, it's the kind of Logan's Wake episode of Succession, for instance.

So there's a lot of like different ways of handling it. I went back and looked at that episode of Succession and I was, show's fucking incredible. Which Logan's wedding? Yeah, the one after. Oh, it's incredible. Yeah, the one after where Kendall kind of screws over. over Fisher Stevens and, you know. It's all in the townhouse, right?

Yeah. Yeah. I guess that's all I have on Last of Us. I mean, I don't know if you have anything else. No, I think I, as we continue to watch the show, which we will continue to do, I think that there is just, he said, just putting it out there to the universe, maybe something else will come up, you know. Do you have jury duty coming up?

So maybe that'll just take me off the board for a year. Your excitement at jury duty has been noted by me. Just when it was happening on Monday mornings and maybe Thursday, mornings otherwise you know um i i think that this show is fascinating and as as a first for many reasons but one of which is the like everything that we bring up and you're comparing it you know in ways favorably or slightly unfavorably to succession or all the things that it has to do or the fact that it even has a character like gail i continue to feel like this show is the best case version of something that might otherwise just be too challenging to do

Again, I want to be very careful saying that because that is what 80% of screenwriting is these days, right? Not just the Trojan horsing, but doing the best possible version of what it is that is getting made and trying to. So I do want to give everyone credit for the casting, for the production design, for the time and real estate that it gives to the emotional things. It's the best case version of it maybe an episode like this. It couldn't do because they have to get to Seattle, because we have to kill Abby, because we have to keep moving on. zombie fights. Or whatever. I'm saying that's what their mission is.

I'm not saying the show has to be. Oh, yeah, right. I'm saying we couldn't have the episode after Connor's wedding episode. It couldn't be that. I guess so. So I also would want that, but we can't do it. So how did we feel about what we had? And for me, it was on more on the negative side of the ledger just as an episode of TV

because it was so many different things stitched together. I thought it was interesting just to, not to belabor my point, but when I was thinking about there is another version of this show that's like literally the day after Ellie is not in this episode and it's about Jesse kind of stepping up to be like here's how we rebuild.

Here's like all the things that need to get done. Here are all the things that need to be hammered. Yeah. I hear all this. And guess what? I can hammer. I can do it. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime.

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Okay, why don't we chat a little bit about... Well, the studio, here's what I have to say about the studio. It's incredibly funny. Great take. This was the curbiest of episodes, I thought. Yeah. This most recent one. This is the pediatric oncologist episode,

which is essentially Matt, the Seth Rogen studio, had character being confronted with sort of the bubble that he exists in where movies are the like end-all be-all of human beings. existence and other people outside of movies are often like, I haven't seen that. You know? Yeah. And it's a funny thing because it's a very specific, I think, Los Angeles experience to be like, movies, what are you watching?

Like, have you seen it yet? Have you gone to this yet? Are you excited for one battle after another? And then people with like normal jobs are like, oh yeah, no. Well, that's true for, I mean, I said this a few weeks ago, but that around the time that all three of us, you mean and Kyah, we put our. top tens up. I was at a dinner

where there were some young people and they were like, oh, asking about what we do and they're like, oh, we did our top 10 list and I showed it to one person who was sitting near me. And she was like,

so cool, I haven't heard of any of these shows. And I was like pointing at like the bear or whatever. It was just like no ambient knowledge of any of the television programs that we spend months

dissecting. Did that person have scars on their face and hammer in their hand? I borrowed the hammer. Yeah. Yeah, I can really take it out. of you. Anyway, great guest's turn from Rebecca Hall.

I love this episode, but I also love the episode for what it's showing about this show, which is that they can do so many different styles of comedy as long as Seth Rogen has a gigantic fall. It's all fair. I was going to ask you if you felt like they wanted to make a lot of this show. Because in the first episode, I was like, This is cool. It feels like this is like a one and done. Yes.

They're going to make this be very stakesy. I thought so too. And now I'm like, oh, they must have like no books filled with funny ideas for 30-minute episodes with this jag off running around and like stepping in it. I genuinely can't tell. And I think we, I think we said this before. But like the season finale could answer all of this. It could be definitive. And when that season finale happens in 37 episodes.

Exactly. I like... Or one more. Who knows? We have no idea, is what you're saying. I get it. Yeah. I thought you were a wish casting.

No, I was just talking about our inability to track the amount of episodes. What about our inability to keep track of bits we're doing within a podcast? Well, I think that's part of the term. Or it's really the point when you turn it off and turns something else on.

That's fine. Yeah, I think that... I don't know. I feel like maybe the best case scenario here is that they... are given the grace and space to do it a little bit like curb it's not improvised

you know there's a lot more prep that goes into it it is extremely directed by Evan and Seth you know the oneers are just the oneers are spraying out like other things are spraying out in the early going of this episode and um they but it seems like the kind of thing

that they have there's plenty of material seems like it is a very sturdy ship for a lot of different types of comedy I would love I would love to just have a steady diet of the show. But the demands on the, like, Seth Rogen likes to do a lot of different things. Is this the thing that he wants to spend 80%

of his next few years doing? That's a really good question. I mean, he's talked about how, for him, Superbad was kind of everything he wanted to say with his 20s and Pineapple Express was everything he wanted to say with his 30s and that the studio is everything that he and Evan want to say about their 40s.

So one would imagine... Did he say that? He did. I can't remember where and... He's done a great job talking about this show, but it may have been on Howard Stern. I can't remember. But I do think that I could see there being more to this. I could see this.

You could see a rise and fall and rise again of this character. You know, he could lose his job. He could start doing something else. Like, there's a lot of different ways you could do this. So you could also tell me that this is going to be 10 episodes. I don't really feel like outside of Masters of the Air Apples in that business right now. I mean, there are. Of one and done's?

Yeah. Like, there are a series where I'm like, How are you going to keep doing them? They're going to keep making presumed innocent, right? Yeah, the second season of presumed innocent. Second season of sugar. A lot of, yeah, they're tossing the green lights around. Well, I think that they think if we're going to invest in the show,

it's got to be a library play, right? Like, it can't just be five episodes, six episodes, eight episodes of something. Yeah, I think that's true. I hope there's more. I think it's pretty elite. It's really, really, really funny. Did you, you know, we were talking about earlier, this show took a pretty aggressive stance on golf. I don't know if you wanted a comment on that, considering, no.

I have no comment at this time? I have no comment at this time. It's fine. I know he thinks golf is a boring sport. And the most, quote, the most boring man he's ever met loves golf. I will say that you meet all sorts of exciting people out on a golf course. Guys, you can really change your mind about things like immigration. Or challenge you.

Right, great. Really good. Friends and neighbors. Speaking of golf. Yeah. Started with golf as well. This show we talked about, the last time we spoke about this show, we talked about its expanding landscape of characters, of plot lines.

We got a new one this week where they sure did. Suddenly a new core cast member. Yes. I mean, she was in the previous week's episode, but now she steps to the four. Yes. And a real broadening, like, I think it's just getting broadening. broader and broader, and I was wondering if that was working for you. Broad is right.

I, full disclosure, it is not working for me, this show at all at the moment. I think there are a number of places where it's starting to fall apart for me. The biggest one was this episode, this is the fourth episode, in which Nick thoughtlessly throws an extremely extravagant birthday party for Mel, for Amanda Pete's character. I mean, I just think it was very thoughtful. I just think it wasn't exactly what she wanted. So what was, so he was thinking only of himself?

No, I think he, that's his love language, is excess. Mm. Was that his style of play on the court as well? I don't know. Yeah. That resulted in all those chimps, he's just like, I'll dunk twice on you. I'm trying to figure out who he's supposed to be. Where do he win that title?

San Antonio, I believe. Right, so, but maybe he went to, like, Yukon. Like, I'm trying to imagine, like, who he is and why he would be back in the East Coast like that. Yes. I have a lot of questions about why he's doing any of the things that he does. But with that pedigree and resume.

But that, at the party, to fill an awkward silence, Coop's sister, Allie, takes a guitar and begins singing a, Slow core version of the Thompson twins hold me now. Yeah. Well, all of the incredibly rich dickheads in the audience start swaying and being like, this is awesome.

And I was like, okay. That was the cringiest moment of television of the year for me. Uh-huh. And it was presented with such earnestness that this is working, that this is, like, effective. This is emotional. This is making me feel things for people who I do not. feel things for yet. That was indicative

of my relationship thus far to the shows. Not to go back on this again. That is exactly asking you to feel things for people you feel nothing for yet is the perfect way of putting some of the challenges

that Last of Us has. Oh, yeah. Yes. Kai, can we edit that observation and put it in about the other show so I sound smarter? Actually, just make that the opening statement

of the podcast. Couldn't she just, Kai, can you just chop up everything I've said this far about Chris, about golf, and just make a better show out of it? That's cool. I mean, there are other places to go here, you know? I think broadly, you were saying this. You mentioned that, like, this is the episode in which Elena, who's Nick's housekeeper is revealed as the person who catches Coop in the act of... And immediately goes into business with him. It goes into business with him. Amy Carrero is the actress. I found this episode's not just its interest in the people who actually work for living in this world and work for these people to facilitate their luxurious lives. The interest in them, I think, is reasonable and necessary. Sincere?

Well, I think it's sincere. Yeah, I don't want to, I'm sure. I don't mean to question the sincerity. What I question, though, was the way that it was explained. The way, like, the voiceover again is just like, it turns out people from the Dominican Republic have families and opinions and lives, and they talk about us. I'm like, uh-huh.

You know what I mean? But isn't there, there is a... You don't think that that's supposed to be a commentary on him? I think the idea that this show is an incisive satire is doing a lot of heavy lifting right now. Because right now, I think it remains incredibly unopinionated. And I know that you make a, you pull a face when I say this. Maybe this is why you succeed in whatever for some you draw on the golf course. Because people say stuff and you're like, I have no opinion about that.

I'm like, yes, comrade. Or. Who am I to speak on? United Healthcare stock is doing great, you know? Whatever you say. I think we can all agree that violence in our streets is, well, can we agree? I think I can't. The show doesn't.

seem to want to take aside about these people and their lives of excessive consumption and sloth and disregard, you know, and I'm not saying that the show should be against them necessarily. It should not necessarily be a socialist manifesto about the maids taking over. But if it is going to be about the integrity or the would-be integrity or the awakening of some integrity in this main character, I would like to see more of it. Instead of him just sort of floating through the world reacting to people, having the same conversation with Barney for four straight weeks, having the same kind of interactions with his children for four straight weeks, and also then almost getting arrested.

Like, that was, that's a pretty scary scenario. And he gets attacked by a dog. And then he's absolutely immaculate, sipping with whiskey at the party, you know, a few scenes later bringing his wife the candy that only he knows she wants. Right. Maybe the real criticism here, because I do believe that, like, four episodes in, it's finding its footing, and that's fine, is that it is spread very, very thin. Which I think is where you started the conversation. Yeah.

I think that this is an interesting example of what's the difference between traditional television writing, especially this last 10 to 12 years, showtime-esque. We have to have 12 characters having each with a discrete plot line that then overlaps, but that, that is what eats innings versus it's novelistic. I don't think that this show feels particularly novelistic, but I know that John and Trapper has his roots in that. Yeah, for sure. But every time we go and spend time, admittedly, with a sort of charming back and forth

between Barney and his wife, Grace, about her redesign of their house and how much it's costing him, it's time that we're not spending kind of at what's the, core tension or story of this show. The show is now about a wide collection of characters living, spending, loving, cheating, whatever

in and around this Tony New York suburb and also the people who work for them now. That's fine. I think it loses its momentum of a, I was on top of the world and now I'm at the bottom and to scrape my way back up to the top

I'm going to have to use any means necessary. Which is kind of like the central conflict for that main character. He's not particularly sweaty. You know what I mean? Like the urgency of it. And it is perhaps unfair to compare shows across, not just genres, but across eras.

But because it is all a question of construction and what type of show you're attempting to make. And it is Apple's to Orange is to a degree. But Walter White's predicament, we are with Walter White. Right. And with each choice that he makes, and you feel the successive risk and anxiety of each step down a path. And maybe ultimately the show is about how for people like Koop, there are very rarely consequences.

And so the consequences when they arrive will not only be biting, but be truly existentially shocking. I'm open to that possibility. I think that's worthwhile. But there is a flattening and diffusing element to this type of storytelling. that takes us away from that urgency when you mentioned the Barney and Grace scene. Like, Hounli's my favorite actor on the show so far. I love the performance.

I like the character. New Space, funny. But that scene was kind of a TV throwaway. I was like, let's check in on these characters. And he's like, I'm brushing my teeth and you should spend less. And she's like, but here are my boobs. And he's like, awesome.

And that's the scene. Yep. So what have we learned? We learned that he's pretty cavalier about dental health. He throws the toothbrush, which I assume that means he's got a neck... A thousand toothbrushes to replace it. Maybe, but then maybe he should look at his spending.

Because toothbrushes... How long have you been using the toothbrush you're currently using? Thanks for asking. I swapped it out last week. And how, like, would you say that's a rotation of, like, every six weeks? Every presidential administration, I revisit. So when Biden won? Yeah, that's the thing. I didn't recognize that one.

So I actually was quite an old toothbrush. Thank you for acknowledging my struggle. I just did that for Guy. At a certain point, I think they stopped recording 10 minutes ago. Now they're just letting us tire ourselves out. Yeah. We're in agreement. Every episode has its charms, but it feels a little bit less like urgent and necessary than it did in the first episode.

And look, like, to use another Breaking Bad comparison, um, uh, Skyler as a character was a challenge for the writers, for the entire run of the series. They, I think, tried admirably, and I think that Anna Gunn did great work throughout the show. But I think even they would probably admit that the circumstance

that they set up at the beginning where this guy is sick AF in a criminal, and she's like, don't be bad. Like, that's a tough one. And they tried to figure that out. They also walked right into the explosion of online conversation

about television shows. Totally. Skyler as a character took on a life of her own. Yes, and I think the treatment and, yes, I completely agree. I'm sure Vince Gil-Lagan was like, uh, like, that's his wife. No, I bring it up not to not to, not to criticize him again, because I think they, in good faith, were like, oh, okay, well, what are some other things we could be doing here? What could it look like? But at a certain point, you're saddled with the, the dynamic that you've created

in the beginning and playing that to its, I mean, that's why Carmel's Soprano was not that, you know, and it's not necessarily a question of, like, one is a better performer or not. It's like the way the show was scaffolded, like allowed her to have more fluidity and more power and whatever. All of that is to say, you and I love Amanda Pete and as a performer.

And the fact that her plot in the last two episodes, so her plot in the first episode, it's a pilot, okay, she's reacting to Coupe. Second episode, we learned she has a job. Great. She has a job. They chose for her job to be therapist, so that might be a way into character or observation. her plot in episode three was there are moths in the closet.

And her plot in this episode is my boyfriend threw me a big party and it makes me sad. I need a little more meat on the bone. Do you know what I mean? Like if we're going to be making this a large ensemble piece, I would like some more. And maybe there's, again, this is the fourth episode. But these are red flags. A lot of alley too. A lot of alley.

Let's wrap up there. I think we did a great job. So what we're going to do on Thursday is talk about the next three, so episodes 4, 5, and 6 of Andor, which are coming out on Tuesday. Yeah. I am excited to have this conversation with you.

We can also chat about some other stuff, if you would like. We have next week, Gemstone's finale is coming on Sunday. I suppose the rehearsal is out there for us to discuss at some point. I've been waiting for like the rehearsal to kind of like have a couple of talk about.

maybe. There's a few things. Gems. Gems. Yeah, so I said. Oh, you did say it. I was, I was just checking what else was coming up.

I wasn't listening at that point. Okay. Can we edit that part? No, not at all. I think it's important for people to see you as you really are. I wanted, the truth is I was, I was just wondering, like,

if you hit the links with Orson Krenick, like, do you think? I think he would be very entertaining. See, this is what I like about you. With two beers on the front night. And then when we get to the back night and he's at his fourth IPA, I think it gets a little dicey.

And he starts saying what he really thinks about Gorman. You know what he mean? Yeah. Is he like the first beer? He's just like, of course, you know, a beautiful society.

But if he comes up to me and talks to me the way he talked to Dedra and he's just like, you've been so quiet out there, tell me what you think. And it's like, but instead it's like, I know there's a great golfer

inside of you, why don't you show him to me? Then that would be inspirational. You know? It's like, yeah. you know, what they don't tell you on the news is that he's funny. Right?

Like, everyone's like, oh, these big bad empire guys. I want to just make it clear before we go that I would not golf with Trump. You draw the line? I would not golf with Trump. We're all having fun here. I don't want anybody to think. You wouldn't golf with Trump because you respect the office too much. You think he has too much to do too much on his play right now with the great work?

What do you? That is a great question. It's like, why is he golfing with Seekwon? It's like there's so much fucking shit. shit happening? Because you saw his tweet about or his truth social you're always report to me what's on that about Shedur Sanders

right and he's basically just like I saw this and I was just like but he's a WFAN caller like that's all he wants to be and if we could just if Nathan Fielder could just create a rehearsal where he just gets to have opinions about dumb shit maybe we would have saved

ourselves all this trouble he never wanted he just wanted to be like Taco Bell the menu's gotten too expensive for the quality I hate it. Right. That's what he wants to do. Yes. Be a takesman.

Yes. And you, unfortunately, you've burned all your good takes already, you said. But you're willing to take one for the team by hitting, where would you go with him? Riviera? What would you? Probably one of his places. I'm never going to go to one of his places. I hate this conversation.

This is the best thing because this whole, we're done. But the whole construction of this conversation is that you're amenable and you're a good guy. and maybe you could go golfing with monsters. We're also seeing that you're continuing to talk to me, even though I'm the monster now. Thanks for listening. We'll be back on Thursday.