The Watch - ‘The Mandalorian’ Settles in and ‘Watchmen’ Keeps Getting Better, Plus: ‘The Crown’ Season 3, Episodes 1–4 | The Watch

Episode Date: November 18, 2019

In the second episode of ‘The Mandalorian,’ the story gets deep in the details in the way that a 'Star Wars' movie can’t (4:09). It’s almost as though every episode of ‘Watchmen’ is a bottle episode; we break down the fifth episode, “Little Fear of Lightning” (27:57). Plus: ‘The Crown’ Season 3, Episodes 1-4 (46:18). Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Guest: Amanda Dobbins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey guys, welcome to the Ringer Podcast Network. The NBA is in full swing and we have coverage across all of our channels to keep you up to speed with the latest news, trends, and storylines. Make sure to check out the mismatch with Kevin O'Connor and Chris Vernon, group chat with Chris Ryan and Justin Barrier, and heat check with John Gonzalez for daily coverage of the games across the league. And make sure to check out the ringer.com to read Kevin O'Connor, Dan Devine, and the rest of our NBA experts break down every development. As always, these can be found on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. I ain't sports to have to clear the room. Stand up and walk now. Hello, and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at the ringer.com, and joining me in the stud. He's trading with Jawa's all day, every day, baby.

He gets the best deals. It's Andy Greenwald! I would pay top dollar for a hand-harvested egg like that. That was kind of that, that orangey, orangey yoke. Gross. I thought look great. Oh my God. Are you serious?

I mean, that's a fresh egg. With hair on it? Well, you don't eat the outside, my man. I know, but, like, I just wouldn't eat anything that looked like a bed bath and beyond throw rug. Don't worry what's going on back in the kitchen. You just enjoy your noodles. No way, dog. I would not touch that.

And those little guys just eating with their hands. You think those are, like, a solid bee from the New York Board of Health for their restaurant? Yeah. Does anyone know what we're talking about? But we're talking like a bodega bee. You know what I mean? Like, there might be some cat poop involved. Like a wink, wink, here's some loosies.

You just accept a, like a baseline of cat waste when you go into a bodega. Yeah, it keeps you healthy. What's up, man? Hey. Happy Monday, it's the watch. We are going to be talking about watchmen. We're going to be talking about Mandalorian. We just did.

We're done. We're done. And later in the show, I'll be talking with Amanda Dobbins about the first four episodes of the Crown season three. I feel her footsteps like Sasquatch, right? Like, I've never experienced this. This is like... You know what this is, is it's Dobbin's season. What I...

Because it's the morning show and the crown are where... It's basically like where you want to... You want to be playing your best ball at the playoffs. I feel like Gardner Minchu right now. Oh, no, I feel like Nick Foles. And now you... Yeah, but Foles is back. Yeah, I'm back, but my clavicle is iffy.

And yeah, I won you a championship, Chris Ryan. And Amanda does like jean shorts. But the hot rookie... That's right. Behind me. Before we get into talking about the TV shows that people tuned into us to talk about, I do want to say, this is our first day recording in the new studio.

There is no disused golden tea machine. No. There is no folding off-brand table. It's expansive. You. Kaya is hidden from view? Which I'm, you know, I've mixed feelings about. Yeah.

It feels very Amish in here, you know? You're going down the wrong path here because what our listeners need to know, now that we're just an audio podcast is Chris has never looked more relaxed. Just an audio podcast? Chris, well, sometimes we used to be on YouTube and stuff. Oh, yeah, that's true. before they said we had faces for podcasts. What if we started to like see the idea that we were banned from YouTube for telling too much truth? We red pilled too many fans of...

Game of Thrones was just okay. Chris is resplendent in this studio. He's relaxing in a leather-bound chair. He's wearing a sweatshirt that is best described as burgundy wine-colored. He's a year older than when we last recorded. Happy birthday. Thank you. But this is very nice.

And it's interesting because we are back in the original rare space. Yeah, this is where it all started. This is where I first rolled up when I still lived in New York, and there was a skeleton crew in here. And we were like, you know what's cool Kanye West? Yeah, we made a... There was a moment when we cared about Kanye West before we were banned from...

We were all banned from YouTube. I think we were all sitting in a different office in this floor of a building here in Sunset Gower, and we were basically like watching that MSG live stream of him playing... Isis? No, no, it was Pablo?

It was the, it was Pablo. It was out. I was in the Legion writer's room, and so I came over to see you guys here for the first time. And I think they had just before that, though, right before that debut, was Noah Holly a big Pablo guy? Noah Holly thought Yeezus was groundbreaking.

Did he? And then, I don't know, it didn't come up. Right before Pablo came out, there was like a leaked notepad of, like, different people's handwriting of who was involved in the album, and it was like chance was here. Oh, yeah, that was sick. And so we actually made, and I wonder if we posted this,

we did like a who was involved with the ringer rip off of that? Sure. We were so much younger then. I know. Anyway, so the last thing about this new studio. You were younger on Saturday when I last saw you. So it's really, you're feeling it. The last thing is these do have these new Joe Rogan mics that you're so excited about.

Yeah. And I can feel this place is crackling with tension, like which one of my takes today is going to cause Chris to see. Which one do I stand up? But I haven't stood up yet. I haven't stood up yet. Well, that's because I haven't told you about Frozen 2 yet. But you haven't seen it, right?

You've listened to the soundtrack? Yeah. In prep. Yeah. I mean, we can talk, let's talk about the other things first, and then we can wind up with a Daddington corner because I've got some thoughts. Coin flip, you want to do Watchman or Mandalorian first? You pick them. You want to do Mandalorian since we started with some deep egg talk?

Let's do it. Yokes on you, my friend. Or as I like to call it the minutia-lorian. Oh. Pretty detailed little show. Wow. That's where you're coming from? Okay, so my take is that, oh, it's gunsmoke. It's like a case of the week. It's this week on the Mandalorian, the Mandalorian walks over there, makes a trade, fights a rhino, and then gets baby-yoted. It's very process-driven. It's very process-oriented, and it's very detailed.

Does Kyya put the Chernobyl music under you when you do your now-triot? Trademark Mandelarian episode recap? No, because these are... That's for Eiger Counter. Oh, I'm sorry. There's so many bits. If we talk about the bigger picture for Disney, Kaya can drop the Chernobyl.

Although, Kaya, feel free to drop Chernobyl music any time I talk. Yeah. In the studio. In the studio. I feel very strange that I can't even see her anymore. I can see her, and she is not happy with what you're doing. Kaya got up at 5 in the morning yesterday.

I do that all the time. You do? Yes. Well, we were just remarking about how that seems like an unholy hour to be awake. you shouldn't do it when you don't have children. Okay. Anyway, yeah, I remain... Kaya just the reason I was bringing Kaya up, aside from the fact that she is...

By the way, she left. Was that she was like... I was talking a little bit about Mandalurian before you got here, and she was like, well, it's PG. And I don't think I realized that. Yeah. Well, it says like 10 plus. It's a hard PG, man.

It's pretty soft batch. Yeah. This is really interesting because I thought... I'm coming at it from a different place. Are you all in on the mandolary? I'm much more in now than I was on our last show. Okay. And a couple things.

There was a moment last night when I fired up the Disney Ploose machine. Wasn't the first time I was fired up that day because I did mention I have children. It is really coming in, really coming through in our household. When's the last time you watched Pollyanna? I don't know. I'm not familiar with that one. Yeah. Okay. Anyway. Is that an early De Palma?

Very early. It's a hard PG. Fired it up. Episode 2 for my pleasure. 32 minutes, baby. That's what everybody says. Oh, it's so good. Okay, but here's why.

And I agree with you. If it's going to be this, it should definitely be 32 minutes. It is. At this moment, what I felt about this episode, which I really enjoyed and I really appreciated, it was the right size vessel for this content. Yes. And it was really enjoyable for that reason. I was watching it, and I was really enjoying it.

I was just enjoying its austerity, relatively speaking, its simplicity. Lack of dialogue, pretty straightforward, enjoyable, really well directed by Rick Femuiwa, who did Dope. Dope. Yeah. I was briefly attached to the Flash movie, I believe. Yeah. One of the Ezra Miller ones.

And I think that really, those 32 minutes, it's not a long runtime, but it gave me some opportunity, or at least the silences gave me some opportunity, not to have a second screen experience, but to have some thoughts while it was unfolding. Yeah. And I was thinking about Star Wars as a whole. And I was thinking about not just the way we cover it, but sometimes the way that we don't cover it. And I was thinking just the batting average of this series

over the last 40 years. And it's low. It's honestly low. Okay. Let's talk about this. A New Hope, classic. That's a good movie. Changes everything.

Empire Strikes Back. I enjoyed that one. Yeah. Arguably. Yeah. Also changes everything. I think it, yes, go ahead. We can get into this if you want to.

Well, this is going to be a quick recap. Okay. Return of the Jedi. As six-year-olds... When he does the backflip, that's peak humanity. As six-year-olds, very, very important film. Right. In retrospect...

Could skip the Ewox. I don't know. A lot of teddy bears. Right. Fast forward 16 years. Trash, trash, trash. I'm sorry. I'm sure there's revisionist history

saying why Attack of the Clones is good. It's not good. Those movies are garbage. They are. You're not going to hear any arguments. No, they're total garbage. The last few years, I liked Rogue One. Yeah.

And I liked The Last Jedi. I enjoyed the cultural experience of the Force Awakens. Uh-huh. But I have zero thoughts about it otherwise. I've not considered it. Did you see Solo? Oh, yeah. We did a podcast about it.

That's right. Garbaggio. Sorry to drop the Italian. It was. I like solo more than you. So I was like... But not as much as a lot. This is pretty good.

Like, this is actually... actually one of the best... So your take is actually the floor for Star Wars is much lower than we thought. Yes. Yes. And I wasn't thinking of just that thought in a vacuum to be controversial or takey this morning. I was thinking about it because I felt like these 32 minutes, the Mandalorian, is probably top five Star Wars content. Of all time.

I got to think about this for a second. And I didn't even adore it. I just really enjoyed it. The peaks of Star Wars are very, very high. Oh, yeah. Like when it gets really great. And the experience of it, and there are like, I mean, I remember Manzukas came on and he was just like, it really doesn't matter when I hear the John Williams music. Like, I just lose it.

Like, it's like that. That, that. To be fair, he also said the same thing about the music of Big Thief. So I'm saying he's an emotional guy. He's an emotional guy. But I agree with him in that there is something embedded inside of me that is always going to get excited when I hear that theme music, when I hear that job. And speaking of which, if you guys haven't had a chance, I'm sure. sure if you're listening to this, and Andy and I are being assholes about Star Wars, but

you should listen to binge mode. I'm saying it's good. I agree. But while we are sort of being like flippant about like the whole middle three movies. Like 30 years of trash. Binge mode did an episode about John Williams. That is, it's an absolutely incredible piece of like of scholarship, but also just like one of the best podcasts I've heard a very long time.

Awesome. So you should listen to that. I will check that. I thought you were also going to give a shout out to Ludwig Garanson, who's music on the Mandalorian. like Sicario. It's really good. Morricone shit.

Yeah, it's really good. So, I don't, why do I sound like such a dick about this show? It's the Rogan Mike? No, it's, it, I think that it, it's what we're talking about, though. It's, it's partly expectations. It's partly like we've been talking ourselves up into like a froth about this for such a long time. And then I think I'm also seeing the long game with this show in a way that most television doesn't allow us. do. It was interesting watching Crown

Watchman and Mandalorian all in a kind of three-day span here because Watchman is like going for broken a way that is almost unsustainable, you know? Like I don't know. From week to week, I have no idea what's going to be on, but I'm also like

how the fuck do you guys think you might do this for two or three years? And maybe they don't. What he's saying? I know he said he's not, but I'm just saying like I, that the way that he is making it, the way that Lindelof's making Watchman is like, If a squid hits us tomorrow, I've said it all.

I did it. Mandalorian is like, we're going to be here for a while, guys. Well, that's one way of looking at it, and that is generally the way that I do look at things. And also, the stakes are just, the stakes aren't necessarily low because there's now a new Yoda

who is, like, throwing rhinos around and then taking mad naps. I've never related anything more strongly. It's that, you do that, but minus the rhinos. I just want to take a nap in my floating crib, man. That crib is that. Is that, the crit? Like, one of the things that I've, that I really appreciate.

Do you wish that you could just, like, throw your, like, your younger one in that and then just be like... Seal the top? Yeah. One of the things I do appreciate that while this show in its two episodes, collective, you know, 60-minute runtime or whatever, has really schooled us on the fact that guns are religion to Mandalorian and also that Calamari... Although not a deeply held one, because he's like, I can't do that. That guns are, like, religion to Mandolars. And he's like, all right. All right.

But also, like, Kalamari. Did you talk me into it, Nick Nolty Walrus? He's a pig man, but Kalimari squid money is like valuable. They have never explained that things can just float sometimes. Yeah, right. Really respect that. Yeah. I think that there's...

Also, how did the Jawa's build that thing? Do they, like, all stand on each other's shoulders? Have we talked about this? Also, I mean, I get that they need a fortress because they are just some thieving ass little dudes. Yeah. But why do they, like, how did they be like, you know what we need? We need like a 60 foot tall fucking car. How many of them are in there?

I have no idea. It is like a Richard's scary storybook in there, right? Like it is a whole world. But the one time we got to see inside of it, it's just full of dead droids. Yeah, that's true. That's true. But, you know, there's a chance they could harvest a lot of dead droids. You never, you never know.

It's like, I'm going to give a shout out to my friend Brian Brown, friend of the pod, writer on Breyer Patch. Bartender and Cocktail. He was really excited, really excited. to get a van for his family. Yeah. Did he need a van? Not necessarily yet, but he wanted a van because you never know

when you're going to need to collect dead droids or whatever else. Right. I'm just talking like a plan ahead. Practical construction level. It just seems like if you're a Jawa, you're thinking mid-sized sedan. Is this freaky Friday?

I feel like we've really switched roles today because here I am saying that, yes, you could look at the slow, slow storytelling as a sign of just, market-based swagger that they know the show is going to run as long as Disney Plus has service. Or, or you take a step back,

you could remove your burgundy wine-colored cynicism garment. I'm not cynical. I like the Mandalorian. Let me finish. As someone who defends the Mandalorian, historically, I just want to say that I appreciate the stillness.

There is a different kind of confidence that you could ascribe to the filmmakers here and say that because we are Star Wars, we don't have to try so hard. We can just make something that is relatively sparse and simple and still and let the IP or whatever you want to call it speak for itself.

And I don't know if future episodes are going to do that. I don't know if it's intentional or maybe they had a lot of crackling dialogue scenes and they failed and they cut them out of what was meant to be a 60-minute episode. I don't know. But this was working for me. I mean, in some ways,

I'm being unfair. because we got Yeah, man. We got like a, we just now have an hour of Star Wars Western content that we didn't have before. It's like they made an hour long.

I bet this two-parter will be the discovery of and rescue of this Yoda baby. You know, and we will look back at the end of this season and just be like, okay, like I can see these little sections that they've made it in. And part of it is,

I mean, we can talk a little bit about the model with which they're distributing it. I still want to talk about it. I want to talk about Baby Yoda with you for a second. Because I, as you know, I'm no friend to memes. I don't like it. I don't like it when people start rallying just for cute things.

You don't want to release the Snyder cut. No, I want it locked and a false. That's like a movement. Yeah, we can circle back to that. That said, I like Baby Yoda not for its cuteness, but for its total absurdity, I really appreciate that on a show that's led by a still faceless hero. Who's had 18 lines of dialogue in two episodes, which is fine.

I get it. Flame throwers shooting out of his wrists. Yeah. That sometimes it cuts to a weird green baby Muppet eating a digital frog. Like that is so weird. And I think it speaks to there is a weirdness to the Star Wars universe that has been The Jahuas are like what we want is like the good truffles. And that's why you've got to fight the rhino.

But like there's a thing about this entire franchise that because Star Wars changed everything, everything since Star Wars is quote unquote normal. And so when people resurrect the property, whether it's George Lucas himself, you know, 20 years later or J.J. Abrams and Disney 30 years later, there's just this assumption, well, this is a universe where these aliens, and they do this, but it's really about important grown-up thoughts like the force or family or whatever else. But there was a weird Benny Goodman's swing band with Muppets playing their nose horns.

Yeah. Like, imagine seeing this movie. Imagine, okay, I'm going to do some. I'm going to do a thought exercise that you probably have often engaged in. Which is, Chris, imagine you're Pauline Kale. It's 1977. You've just said, well, not just, but recently, relatively speaking, you're like, Bonnie and Clyde has changed cinema.

you're coming out of this roaring decade where like American movies can do anything and this promising young filmmaker who you've raved about who made American graffiti has this new film and there is no precedent for like summer blockbusters

or space operas or whatever you want to call it and you fire this thing up and there's Uncle Owen drinking blue milk in the desert right? Like this is fucking strange no that would be another couple decades

it's deeply strange range. Yeah. And the juxtaposition of, you know, swaggering 1930s serial action or westerns from the 40s and 50s with just, just gully-ass Muppets eating frogs. Okay. Yeah. There's no reason we've accepted this as normal.

And I appreciate that this Favreau production seems to set its controls for hyperspace right at the heart of the weirdness. Here's my take. The Mandalorian is good. All right. I am just getting used to it. I'm getting used to it being on not quote-unquote TV, but the episodic telling of a Star Wars story.

Okay. Fair. Which because I didn't watch Clone, Star Wars, Clone Wars, whatever. And I'm getting used to that. I'm very a big fan of the runtime. I thought it was a very cool episode. I think that the PG-ness ultimately makes it less weird to me. There's a little less shock and awe going on.

And I think that even though the world building is cool, the fine detail of how would you actually have to get off this planet if you found out that your ship had been stripped by job. I'm interested enough. And you have to get into the whole thing. Now, the Nicknulty character, what's that guy's name? I can't give you that information. I have no idea. He's like very helpful.

Sure. You know? But the, you have brought peace to my valley is in literally like 100 westerns and 100 samurai movies. It is. How many times was it said by a dwarf pig man? This is the first time. Yeah. Rookie of the Year on that one. That's right. Donorous rated rookie Nick Nulte.

I'm just getting used to it. I think I'm just getting used to it. And I think that because it's something, I think when you listed all those movies and you're like, okay, these are the good ones. One of the reasons why for all its actual narrative storytelling problems that Rogue One holds such a high, I have such high regard for Rogue One is because is the closest thing to the Star Wars in my head.

And it is pretty dark and pretty grown up in that way. Yeah, Cassie and Andor as like traumatized assassin. And maybe his upcoming series will be more about that. But I want to say something. Not if it's like, let's buff it a little bit and make it a 32 minute like, yeah. But let me say, there's tape of me arguing the opposite here. I'm willing to own it. Like Michael Bloomberg, I'm standing in front of my longtime critics.

and just admitting maybe I was wrong about something. And throwing your hat in the Star Wars ring. I'm running to be president of Star Wars. He's running. A few weeks ago, we were saying that the Mandalorian might be good because it looked like it might be the version of Star Wars that we've carried with us and that has aged and matured with us, and thus would be of more interest to us.

And then last week we were sort of struggling with it, oh, it's not really going to be that. And that was pretty clear from the first episode alone. I'm going to completely revise my take in 180 degrees. I've spent more time thinking about it, and I feel confident saying it. Star Wars is for kids. Star Wars is best when it is for kids.

It doesn't mean I can't enjoy it, much like the upcoming film Frozen 2. I'm sure there'll be things that I enjoy in it, but I will be more impressed, and I already am impressed by the soundtrack for Frozen 2, because it is a kid's film that is finding interesting, thoughtful ways to talk about bigger ideas.

emotionally, in the case of Frozen 2, you don't need to know what I'm talking about. No, I know exactly what you're talking about. But what I mean in this is this feels right, because it's not just grizzled and Western. When it has at its heart, and I felt this in that last scene when he's waving to the pig guy and he's flying off in his space is there's a little sense, there's a little bit of whimsy and wonder here in this universe. Yes. And that is more valuable than grizzled Werner-Her.

And there is whimsy and wonder in New Hope. Yes. There's even some wimsy and wonder in Rogue One. Yeah, and the sort of like in the purest, like, getting the band together stuff. But it's a lot of, like, mining colonies and dead parents or traitorous parents. Well, in Rogue One, but Rogue One is also... And then you get nuked and then you fight, and then Darth kills everybody. Yeah.

I mean, it is... The whimsy and wonder in that is that it does, in that, like, let's get the band together sequence, touch the vein of, like, one of the purest storytelling forms in all of movies, which is that, which is like, let's put the group together for one last job. Well, maybe this is what I'm reacting to. Maybe a New Hope and Empire were about the transition from late adolescence to adulthood in terms of taking on like a larger responsibility, not only for yourself, but for your destiny and by that proxy of the galaxy's destiny.

And this feels like it should be cynical and grizzled. And it is to some extent. I mean, like, we're learning the ways of the Mandalorian and is deeply held religiously. it believes about never leaving his weapons except when he has to make. He especially hasn't talked to weird little desert traitors. Yeah. Is that to have whimsy in the,

it's a little bit of like a, it goes backwards, right? Where Star Wars was going forwards in time, it was saying let's grow up. Okay. This is saying let's kind of be cynical old cowboys, but at the same time. Yeah.

Who doesn't love a baby Yoda? You drop everything to protect it. No, it is absolutely arrested in that way. But that is, what you just pointed out is, I think, the central problem, or if you're looking more optimistically, the defining characteristic of genre entertainment in 2019. It is frozen in that. It is not like Elsa and Anna. It is frozen in that it is not meant to advance forward. It is meant to keep you hooked on a certain feeling that you had once in the past.

I am hooked. I am hooked. Well, I mean, look at the conversation at Spons, obviously. Yeah, yeah, no, but I mean, there is part of me. So did you feel the flutter? Did you feel the, like, the Star Wars goosebumps at all watching this? Or are you just like, this is interesting? I don't think I've felt that since the Rogue One trailer.

Okay. I mean, that could be because I'm now dead inside. I'm not sure. It's because you get at 5 in the morning. I do. It sucks. What I, because, like, what I like, about Last Jedi was that it, I found it really surprising and really entertaining because of that.

Because it was, and, you know, at least in terms of its reputation with some fans, suffered the consequences of not being arrested, of saying the powerful McGuffin in the big chair doesn't mean anything, you know, and pushed forward in a way that was... Nor does who your parents are. In a way that wasn't radical in the universe, but in this fictional universe felt radical. So I don't think I'm the right person to answer that question, because I don't feel things anymore. Okay.

Let's talk about Watchman, but I liked it. I liked it too. I feel like an asshole. I just feel like, I, there's some things where I feel okay about being like you guys like this and I don't

and that's, I feel pretty confident in it. And this time around, I'm just like, what's, does something different about me or something wrong with me? Have I been thinking about

anticipating this for too long? I think it's just because you turned 42 yesterday. Can I get in the Adrian Vite catapult and get tossed into being 41 again. The backwards fight catapult.

I just want to say this guy Chris Ryan here said all he wanted to do for his birthday was watch Eagles Patriots. And I just

I'm feeling for you right now. The fucked up part was that Brady didn't even just let me off the hook. No. They were like

oh you guys we'll just bubble screen you a lot. We're just going to do like little pick passes and Edelman seven-yard games

to death. Worst kind of Eagles loss. And it was like, we watched at a bar with the sound off. Oof. Which is fine. I mean, but I... So you could hear your screams.

I feel like Tony Romo at some point it would have been like, Chris Ryan out there. If I'm you, I'm just going home right now, man. You hate to see it, Chris Ryan. But if it had been like 35-7, I would have been like, you know what? Like, it's too short. Literally life is too short. This felt Andy Reedish to me in the way. And meanwhile, Andy Reid has like a 22nd century offense and is like the coolest, you know.

Andy Reid is the coolest. He's not the coolest. That is a fire take. His scheme is very, you know, like, we have a bunch of guys who are like, what are these things at the end of my arms? Do I use them to put them on a football? Not to make this an NFL show, but my advice would be this week that Doug, Coach Peterson, should show all of the receiving core that video of Shia Leboeuf and Kristen Stewart talking about the magic hands. Yeah, that's right.

Hands are magical. Hey, Nelson, check this out. I feel like that's the perfect match. Do you have any Miles Garrett takes? You know, I feel like he's missing. understood. No, I don't have any mild care it takes. Let's talk about Watchman.

Yeah, man. Last night's episode was, what do you think about the fact that, like, in some ways, every one of these episodes is a bottle episode? I love that. And that's leftover from the leftovers, I think. This was the most leftovers-y episode of Watchman. It sure was. It sure was.

If you're drawing out the thematic kind of what interests Damon Lendloff, like, it's clearly shared trauma is like a major thing. Incephal pods. Yeah, right. this was a leftover That guy loves going to Al of Garden and having all you can eat squid. Squid jokes are really good on the show.

I thought this episode was absolutely magnificent. Do you think it's the best one of the season? I've saw some people saying that. I think so. I think so. And I think because a lot of the things I loved, and I'd be curious how I felt if I rewatch them, you know, what I loved about a lot of the episodes

so far this season was the the batch it level excitement of the ideas, the constant momentum of pushing forward and pushing forward, new things crashing into frame. That's thrilling. And it felt really exciting to be watching something that felt so unpredictable and all-encompassing. This definitely, I feel pretty confident saying

that this was the most successful just on its own as an episode. It is kind of a bottle episode. And it's also very much a leftovers episode in that it, but compacted. in that the trauma happens in the cold open, and then the rest of the episode is following, it's one POV character.

Sure. But all the way to the point of fundamentally being made to understand that the trauma, while real, the event itself was not real. Right. And that there might be a way out of this tunnel, as it's described in the episode. Right. And to pack all of that into 58 minutes or whatever

is just absolutely dazzling. It really is. I mean, it's so, so hard to do all of this. They were playing, they were really, like, they were really hiding the treasure chest for a while, like, because they've hinted at this and hinted at that and kicked the can down the road a little bit in a way in which I found incredibly engaging as a viewer. But they were going to need to do an info drop at some point. They were going to need to explain, like, what's with the squids? What's White doing out there? And what is the relationship fully with the events of the comic book?

Yes, exactly. And they did so with a plot. They did so very, very efficiently, choosing to go through one character who believes one thing, and by the end of the episode, we, well, I guess we're not sure what he believes because he does go back to get his sort of alarm system.

But the way in which essentially this show is just like on the other side of the looking glass of reality, I love. You know, the way in which, you know, meetings like that are happening all over America for all sorts of different reasons, for all sorts of different traumas. And you also are we are living at a time where

there is some feelings of shadowy collusion that shapes our world. And there is also this idea that really like we're all kind of like asleep and that there are all these things out there that are right in front of our eyes, but that if only someone woke us up to show them and that's also the act of waking us up is incredibly dangerous. I mean like we've talked about before.

And the comfort or the familiarity of holding on to your trauma or your pain, which is another thing that I think interests Damon a lot and fueled the leftovers and is demonstrated by that moment you spoke about at the very end of the episode where Wade would rather have the alarm. Yeah. Even if he now knows it's meaningless. Right. Because it feels safer because that has been his whole life. I think...

So there's a bunch of different ways to read that, right? That last moment. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I didn't mean to say that if your version is wrong. Well, I was almost kind of wondering whether or not he's basically saying, just because I know the truth doesn't make it any less scary. The world is still scary.

Yeah. And terrifying. And this is sort of what we were speaking about last week, too, about one of the things that makes this show so powerful, I think. You can be afraid of transdimensional squids, or you can be afraid of your neighbor's political beliefs, but you're afraid. Yeah.

And you're afraid of uncertainty. And people will go to great lengths. and twist themselves into all kinds of knots to mitigate that uncertainty. And I think the show is really interested in living there. And just connecting it to the conversation we've had over the last few weeks about not just the show in relation to the larger culture of adapted IP, but also to its relationship to the comic book and the comic book storytelling, I really love that Damon has considered what is interesting still to poke at in a superhero context at this moment. And if Alan Moore's comic book did something so radical, which was, well, what if there really were people underneath these masks and what would those who did real people things? That would there be transfers of power between them. Yeah, right. But also, someone wearing a mask was a sociopath or a rapist or truly, in the case of Dr. Manhattan, a god, what would happen.

This show is much more about what happens to the people in a world where giant squids drop from the sky. and the trauma of these large-scale events. And it's kind of, I was about to say, it's amazing that other stories haven't done this. I guess Avengers Endgame has come the closest because its first 20 minutes we're kind of trying to be the leftovers. But otherwise, we do live in a world

for those same arrested reasons we were talking about in the context of the Mandalorian, where to keep these things coming, you have to destroy London or destroy Washington. Yes. And then move on from it. So, because the act, I mean, like, Spider-Man far from home, like, is the third Spider-Man movie just going to be about the absolute

cultural and nationwide devastation of these European capitals who have been destroyed? What's the one that gets destroyed in Ultron? Oh, Secovia? Sikovia. And then there's like the Sikovia Accords. Right. Right. But we never spend any time being like, how to...

Well, that's because they made up a country. That was very intelling that they would make up one for that. But we all, part of buying a ticket to those other movies is, we are focusing on the one hero who is defending the greater good, but unfortunately sacrificed all of Metropolis in the process. Right. And the leftovers is ground level and not about that, and I love it for that. I was thinking about...

I was thinking about... Well, I mean, I was thinking about... The specific thing that Carly Ray and Damon wrote last night's episode, it had multiple references both to Watchmen but also to 20,000 leagues under the sea. Okay. Right. So it's got this intertactuality going. It's participating in this remix project of the original comic in a massive way, even down to just looking glass eating beans, just like Rorschach did.

All sorts of stuff is going on. It's got the Hooded Justice show, the American Hero show, that's also happening within the show. Then you've got people talking about their fan theories about what's happening in that show, Red Scare, and is talking about that at the office with Panda. and the panda's also on the watchtower pamphlet. I mean, there's all sorts of, like, zigzagging little lines that you can lose yourself in. And then there is the typical Lindelhoff magic trick. And the reason it's what he does is, it's not just, hey,

he saw the lady in half, or he pulled the bouquet of flowers out of his pocket. It's then he goes, where'd the lady go? Or how did he get the flowers in his pocket in the first place? Like, he goes beyond that, and that's the Vite stuff. That's the... Also, why a saw. Right. Yeah.

That's exactly right. But that's the thing that's so complicated, is that it's not just Vite shows up on the other side of this trans-dimensional portal and lands on the moon? Where does he land? I mean, that's not... He was in space near Mars.

He seems like he was on one of the moons of Mars, and Dr. Manhattan is in exile on Mars. Right. And he arranges all these bodies, I think, to say, save me, right? And a satellite goes by. And then he gets yanked back. and you get thrown into yet another mystery. So it's like triple mysteries.

As soon as you solve one, he opens up four others that he's now on the hook for and then pulls him back and opens up three or four others when he gets back. But I will say, because I wonder if critics of the show or people on the fence about it would listen to what you just said and say, oh, well, that's lost,

or that's the problem with lost. It was all questions. The thing about this is every one of these questions is considered and all thematically linked and tonally linked. And as I said at the beginning, I don't care what the answers are. He's also just got like a really solid cop show underneath.

He's just got Gene Smart being like, give me your gun and your badge person and doing an amazing job at like creating a genre show underneath that's just actually very compelling to watch throughout an hour. So there's so much going on.

There's so many activation points in my brain when I watched this show. It's kind of remarkable. And this wasn't even my first. favorite episode. You know what you mean? It is, it is interesting to go from talking about it, the stillness of a show, the Mandalorian, to Watchman, which is the opposite. I mean, it is the most, it is the busiest, perhaps most frenetic show currently on TV. And I love it for that. It's just moving in a hundred different directions at once. But I also want to say that the other thing that makes me

so excited about it is the level of consideration in detail, you know, which I think comes from, again, Damon's writing, writer's room process, which we're going to get to talk to him about when he comes on and HBO's generous budget and all the other people, the really great direction. Steph Green did an amazing job of this episode. I was thinking about the technical challenges of that cold open to not only create 1980s, New Jersey, somewhere in Georgia, they filmed the show in Atlanta, but to every detail of it, not just from the writing, of like, okay, so how can we introduce young Wade? What's the bare minimum to understand who he is, where he is, what's going on in the world?

what interactions should he have, where should he go? In this case, it was a hall of mirrors. And what would the girl say to him and how would it unfold? And then the technical direction of shooting in that hall of mirrors, of conveying the horror of what's going on at the exact right level. But I'm at the point, and this is where my head is at, because I'm dealing with a cold open myself for one of the later episodes of Briar Patch, where, you know, what's the camera going to see?

each shot as weight arrives of like the young couple making out. Yes. Or of the atomic wheel or whatever. That's a separate setup. That's a separate shot that takes up time in your schedule, but you have to make sure you know what you need and you also have to make sure you get it. All so you can string it together and create this incredible moment, right,

that has an emotional wall up as well as storytelling heft. And I'm just dazzled by that. Like these details that are fun writers room ideas that are then executed, like the comeback to New York tourism video with, with featuring what's his name. Michael Imperial. I wanted to call Multisanti, too. It's terrific.

Yeah, and the pullback shot to show the squid in New York, to show the devastation, he always, like, he's on the hook for that now. You know what I mean? He's on the hook for Watchman fans who are watching this, and I think that's the first time

they've seen that because that's not in Snyder's movie, right? Probably in the Snyder cut. It probably is. I mean, but again, like, that is just, It's actually a successful fusion to me because it is pure Alan Moore. It is pure, pure Alan Moore, this idea of a transdimensional squid falling from the sky. And it's psychic scream being more devastating than its impact. Yeah.

Killing millions by the psychic scream that blows out your brain. Right. I mean, that is dark shit. And that is pure Alan Moore. And that was a psychic scream across all of comic book world in the 80s. but there is a tendency in comic books, and even with the greats, like Alan Moore or Grant Morrison,

to take the biggest craziest idea because it's a medium that supports it and actually thrives on the biggest craziest ideas, throw them out there and then top it, you know, and then go crazier and go bigger. TV, or at least TV now, can sit with it in a way. There's more meat on that bone. And something that was haunting to me when I read it,

I don't know when I read Watchman 30, no, I wasn't that young, but a long time ago. Yeah, probably late high school, right? Yeah, probably middle school or high school. To re-engage with that, you were asking about the Star Wars Flutter. Like, Watchman is so dark, it was very upsetting to read when I was young. Yeah. And then to feel that level of upset again.

But also to be 40-something in America after the last 20 years of what's happened in the world and what's happened in this country, it does feel relevant. Like, I think that there is, like, that's what really fires me up is when a work of imagination also feels incredibly relevant like that. And it's, it's him and his best, I think. And Tim Blake Nelson is so good. And Tim, and that's the thing is that there's just no, you just have people walking in and doing parts where you're just like, God, you know, like, the guy playing the senator from Lone Star, what's his name? James Wolke. James Wolke. Yeah, it's just like.

About Benson. Yeah, he's better than any, has any business being. Only on the watch is he known best for his two-episode turn on Lone Star. Of Lone Star, I know. We can wrap it up there. I just want to say two things. Is this going to be like an emotional thing about my... No, it's not about your birthday.

Okay, good. I feel like I'm not alone. It's not about Frozen 2. Oh, good, okay, yeah. Frozen 2 is opening this weekend. I'm very curious how many people... Ky, we should figure out some Dattington Quarter music. Is it Chernobyl music?

Yes. I'm very curious. what, people listen to this podcast, where they are with this. Are there people who are going to see it because they love Disney cartoons? Are they going to see it like I am because I live in a household that is, I've now had to do it twice, like go through a frozen obsession to the point where my older daughter loved it and now says she doesn't, but that's totally not true. But her sister is obsessed with it to the degree that everyone in the family has a different frozen name.

You do a podcast with Christoph, which is great. My name is Christoph? I'm Chris off. I started actually as the reindeer, and I leveled up. You glowed up. I glowed up to Friend of the Pod Jonathan Groff's character. And it's really interesting to watch certain things play out, which is, I think the first movie is really good, and it's really meaningful, obviously, to a whole generation of kids. Of course, they were going to make another one. Are they going to be disappointed by it?

The kids? Yeah. Are they going to be the way I was when, like, Manikin 2 came out? And I was like, this is as good as the first mannequin. Reader? Wow. You really support Wanamakers. I'm just, it's a Philadelphia movie.

Was it Gimbles or Wanamakers? I think it was Wanamaker. Okay. But like everything that came out was good because it came out and it was the same people. Definitely. I was definitely like Beverly Hills Cop is sick. And way better than Beverly Hills Cop One because it's even bigger and better. Right.

Because it was just more of what you like. Yeah. And I'm very interested because this second movie is dark as hell. Is that, do you know that for a fact? Well, the trailers were super dark. Yes. And then we've been listening to the soundtrack. Not sure where I fall with some of these songs yet, but it is fucking metal.

Like, are you sure you're not accidentally listening to metal? What I want you to know is that like, there are. You're like listening to Masters of Reality? I turned to, I turned to my older daughter and I was like, there are no happy songs. And she went, there's one. And she's feeling it. Like, all the songs are about being lost in the woods. and when all hope is gone

and nothing will ever be the same again just try to do one decent thing before you die. It is so dark and maybe that's also like watchman appropriate for our era. But I'm very curious what this generation of young people

are going to think about it. This is the whole thing though. They got to grow, like they are now responsible for a generation of fans. Are they going to grow with them? Yes. And stimulate them

as they like start to get a little bit more nervous and anxious about being people? Or are they going to just be like, you know, we'll just go right back down. Kristen Bell is a song where she's like, this grief has its own gravity. No. Yes. Really? Yes.

Chill out, Morrissey. And this voice of like a haunting spirit is voiced by goth icon Evan Rachel Wood. Really? Yes. This is seriously dark stuff. And I, you know, it's interesting now to be on the other side of it because, yeah, I think that let's advance these thoughts as the fandom grows in a really. really thought-provoking an interesting way because Frozen, I think, is a worthwhile thing to talk

about, even on this podcast, because it subverts so many of the predictable and standard tropes of childhood storytelling and of animation and blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, it's about not being rescued by Prince. It's about sisters rescuing each other, blah, blah, blah. But the thing is, now I am caught in this, this is all connected. This is like this arrested thought that we were talking about in the Mandalorian and Star Wars fandom. My older daughter, I think, can handle a hard emo turn. The younger one who's just like, I want the reindeer song,

is going to have to confront the fact that Elsa and this one is just like, everyone I love is safe within these walls, but I must go venturing out into the ice storm, because only then will I know what it feels like to be alive. I don't know about that. This is my Mandalorian right now. I can't wait for this. I want the full report once you guys see it.

It's pretty wild. Is it next weekend? It's opening this weekend. All right, this is exciting stuff. Daddington Corner will return, as well our updates on lukewarm mandolary and takes. Oh, the show isn't even over. You have Amanda Dobbins coming in. Of course, yeah.

Does Kaih stopped recording 20 minutes ago? Don't tell me. I appreciate the privilege. Greenwald, always a pleasure. Me and Amanda on the first four episodes of the Crown season three or it's up next. I can't wait. All right, now I am joined by Amanda Dobbins. God save the Queen. She's here.

Thank you. We're here to talk about the Crown season three. A show that has been much undercovered by the Watch podcast, I would say, over the years. And we're going to correct that now with Season 3. Better late than never. That's great. I'm glad to be here and be a part of this new wave of the watch. I greeted Andy in the hall before we recorded.

Did he bow from the neck? He did. It was a positive experience. You know, he's willing to share on this issue only. So thank you, Andy. It's a power sharing government. This is the first, so we arrive at the Crown season three almost two years after season two since season two is released about that. Yes, in the context of the real world.

In the context of the real world. Like in 2019, it's two years later than 2017 when we last saw the nice people of the Crown. Interestingly enough, on the Crown Season 3, it's just like right after that. It's right after Season 2, right? It's 1964. And I think Crown Season 3 ends, Kennedy happens. Yes. And then it's pretty much just like an episode or two after that, right?

Yes. The last thing that happens is Prince Edward is born. Mm-hmm. And that is in 1964. So it's the same year. And then Clairphoi becomes Olivia Coleman. So this is the big thing that everybody, obviously, it's the superficial thing that everybody will notice

is that there is a new cast. Yes. Which is the plan. It's two seasons per cast. It's a six-season run planned, at least for 60 episodes. That's the vision that Peter Morgan has for the crown. Season three begins with the two seasons. death of Winston Churchill, which obviously really closes the book on one version of this show

as Churchill loomed over the first two seasons heavily. And it's, you know, the first two seasons were largely concerned with Britain's sort of rise out of World War II and its tenuous grasp on the world stage as a superpower. Yes. And it's self-perception versus the world's perception of England and of empire and of all these things. Right. And we have a new cast. We have Olivia Coleman playing Queen Elizabeth, Helen Bonham Carter playing Princess Margaret, and Tobias Menzies playing Princess Philip. I kind of want to start first generally. Can you tell me why this show means so much to you? Well, I guess I'm a royalist. I'm not really a royalist. I would love to talk about the weirdness of the royal family as an institution, which I think this show does a good job mostly of interrogating. I think Peter Morgan is definitely a royalist because he's also a British citizen. But I am fascinated by the royal family, in large part

because I am fascinated by celebrity. And they are kind of the original celebrities. And the way that the royal family has interacted with the public over time for me is really a case study in how people respond to famous people over time. Okay. And so, you know, that is all the academic answer. I also just like really enjoy watching it. I'm an anglophile. You know, I have read a lot of books about Princess Diana, and I just really enjoy looking at, like, really extravagant sets and everyone in, like, clipped British accents being like, you know, oh, oh, dear. Like, or whatever. I find it soothing and interesting to watch. I both enjoy it.

But I think that this show is on a subject that I'm really interested in. And I also just think Peter Morgan is a tremendous writer. Excellent writer. Just in an absolutely, like, not, I wouldn't say, you know, not necessarily flawless. This is just the word that came into my brain, but is pristine. Just like every line seems considered. Every line makes sense. All the scenes fit together.

The episodes have thematic coherence. If you were going to teach dramatic writing, you could do worse than showing people, Peter Morgan scripts. Yeah. And to the extent that television has historically been a writer's medium, this is a writer's show. And it is kind of so exactly stitched together in terms of scenes and lines and themes. it's really kind of nerdy how fun it is to watch. Yeah. But I think it is, I think it's so smart and so thoughtful.

And even if I don't always agree with the politics of it, because it is, this is a movie loves the royal family. I mean, this show loves the royal family. They just, it's a pro queen agenda. And I think I also really like the queen, but, you know, do I think the royal family should exist right now? Right. And they're talking about that in this. They're talking about into, In 2019, they're talking about in 1964, Harold Wilson is coming into power as the labor party's prime minister.

And the idea of whether or not there should be a royal family is the meat of the show this season, in a lot of ways. And in a lot of ways, was the first two seasons as well. I mean, to the extent that the show is like the existential crisis of the queen as this large figurehead and also this human being, it's throughout all of the seasons. Yeah. And a thing I like about that is that that can be, you know, very small intimate stakes. And that is also Shakespearean in a way of this person who's in a situation that they're not supposed to be in. And I mean, a lot of Shakespeare was about like British and English kings throughout history. So it can work on a lot of different levels, which is very exciting.

I saw a very, there's a phenomenal piece that the Guardian ran a couple months ago in the lead-ups of the show. that was essentially about the making of season three. It's a nice, healthy, long read, but it is one of the better, here's how this show got made articles I've read in a while. And in the piece, the director of a lot of the episodes, Benjamin Karen talked about how, you know,

I would say that most people probably aren't in support of the mafia, yet they like the Sopranos. It's true. You know, and that there are certain kinds of dramatic situations, dramatic family interactions that when you have, heighten the stakes, be it a royal family, be it a Don with his lieutenants, be it whatever, it just creates drama.

And you don't have to be necessarily a monarchist to be in support of like, I like watching these people dramatize essentially a national mythology. Yes. And I think the other thing that's interesting about that is that most people don't like the mafia, but they still like watching these stories. Whether people like the royal family and what the royal family someone is. in terms of England and Empire is, like, still very much in the national and international conversation right now, and you're watching a lot of it play out in different ways on stage.

So there are, there are definite Brexit undertones in certain parts of this season. And just working out that relationship to history is fascinating. Well, I was going to say that, like, when the season begins, and we're going to go through the first four episodes here, I definitely was like, they took the bread. And they laid the butter on real thick. And they poured some clotted cream on the bread and the butter. Because it's just like a progressive left wing, you know, national and political figure is rising and gets into Downing Street. And then there is literally a Russian spy story about whether or not like the president or the prime minister of England is a Russian spy.

But I think what's also what's so fascinating is, as you mentioned, the first season starts with Churchill dying and Harold with Wilson being elected, which I, I think that those two events really did happen at the same point in time are pretty close to each other. And then the Russian spy plot is definitely also something that happened. Anthony Blunt, yeah. Anthony Blunt. Yeah. The royal curator. So there is a thrill to this show that's just like, huh, can you believe all this happened?

Yeah. And, you know, both the, like, wow, I never knew this. And also the history repeating itself aspects of that, you know, at some point we all wind up in the same problems and the same situations, which is both. alarming and comforting simultaneously. So there's another thing that people like about this show. Yeah. Because it asks a really important question. Yeah.

What if the royal family but hot? Yeah. That was the first two seasons. Yes. It was Vanessa Kirby. Mm-hmm. Shattering people's laptop screens. It was Claire Foy, your queen.

My queen. And... Who is extremely beautiful. She doesn't really get to go for the, like, glamour situation that Vanessa Kirby does. Right. That's just... That's who the queen is. And then it's Matt Smith and Matthew Good.

And you just see Matt Smith's naked behind several times. Right. Apparently they cut out more of that, which I'd say like, you know, release the crown tapes. Release the crown cut. Release the Matt Smith cut. This is a slightly more middle-aged and reserved version of this cast, obviously. So while Olivia Coleman is playing the year-later version of Claire Foy, and not to put too fine a point out, this season essentially opens with her regarding the actress who played the role before her on a stamp. it is a little bit more of a button-up cast, obviously.

Yeah. Especially for the first half of this season. Yes. We'll, no spoilers, and we're keeping an episode four, but I just want to say if you miss hot people, wait until Prince Charles shows up. Anyway. It's not winter's coming. It's hot princes are coming. It's hot princes are coming.

Which, you know, I don't know how historically accurate that is, but whatever. It's welcome to me. But yeah, the first four episodes are about middle age. about dullness. There is actually a speech in episode two that is just about the appeal of dullness. Yes. But they are really leaning into the, it's a quieter performance by everybody. Just everyone seems a bit more settled.

There isn't like the tumultuous first couple of seasons of, I don't know how to be queen, and does my husband still like me? And, you know, what is Princess Margaret's role in all this? although they actually do that, do that again. But it's a little, yeah, they're older. They're slightly more mature. Yeah, and I think that even, this is not revisionist history. He's going to have to make the show.

I mean, he can pivot to the younger generations, which I think is obviously going to happen. But ultimately, at the end of day, when they were making the documentary about the royal family inside the Crown, and then we're watching the Crown, and people in the Crown are watching the documentary and saying, why would anybody watch this? Yes.

There is a lot of, like, meta-commentary going on about our fascination with these characters. Yes. But as a credit to Olivia Coleman, Helen, Helin Abonacar, everybody in that scene, and Peter Morgan and Benjamin Karen directing, you're just like, no, I do like watching The Crown. Yeah.

This is really excellent television. It's really excellent. I will say it, I do find, I think they handle the transition as well as possible. Yes. From the first scene that you mentioned, which is like the very clever, the stamps, and you kind of see one and see the other

before you see Olivia Coleman in person and they're just acknowledging it head on. It's very clever. I like clever. And then the first episode is really just a meta-commentary on like dual personalities. So I think that it's as smart a transition as possible, but it was a little jarring for me. I mean, I just, it's not even that. I think I thought it was going to start 10 years later.

Totally. Yeah. And I understand why they made the decision because the Churchill-Wilson handover is just like such a neat summary of Britain's changing. And they used to be, you know, young and relevant. and now they're middle-aged and no one knows what to do with them. Right. It's all there in one episode.

But I found it a little hard to wrap my head around the fact that Olivia Coleman and Claire Forer are supposed to be existing in the same year. Yes. There is – Olivia Coleman is a fantastic actress, but she is bringing – you can see the extra time that's supposed to have elapsed in her performance. I mean, she's a different person. She's also, I think, dramatizing a time of isolation for Queen Elizabeth. Yeah.

Which I guess probably continues on for the rest of her life. but she is not like out in the mix. Like there's no safaris happening. Right, exactly. She's like, I can't really go anywhere because when I do, I paralyze every situation I hit. It is a little claustrophobic and it's kind of, it's in those same drawing rooms. And it honestly even seems like they're shooting it like a little bit closer. It's not as stately.

It's more just kind of like a mumsy old lady. Yes. In cardigans. I would love to read how they address the fact that I would say 65% at least in the first four episodes, maybe even more than that in the first four episodes, of Olivia Coleman's speaking scenes are played with Wilson with her in the same seated position. Right. With her back straight up and her legs slightly to the side.

Right. And her just kind of asking follow-up questions to the prime minister who's expounding on his love of statistics or how this is playing or whatever. And they're wonderful scenes, but it's a very limited kind of palette for her to draw from. Yes. And it's, you know, there are a couple of things. one, just the actual changing of the characters, I couldn't help but be slightly taken out of it. You know, even though I think they do as seamless a job as possible, it's still, it was interesting thinking about how you watch TV. And part of me was just kind of like, wait, but no, you're supposed to be this old, and I'm used to it this way.

And why are you responding to that thing in this way? Because I think of you as Claire Foie instead of, it is, it's, I realize how much you don't want new stuff. when you're watching TV, even though we talk about it all the time of like, wow, they're innovating, and I've never seen something like this before, but I was like, no. And this is one of those, these British things that they, with Doctor Who with other characters, they're just like, we're just going to get a different actor. Yeah. And now they sometimes they explain it away, but, I mean, what did you think, obviously the 64 to 74 era

is what we're talking about here for the most part. Is that, was that an particular era of the royal family that you were excited to see dramatized? No. Oh. Well, because I think, as you said, she doesn't really have a lot to do. And it's interesting this show trying to work out the tension between it being about the queen and about being the crown, which are two distinct things. And this is, it's called the crown. And at some point, this has been the tension in the royal family itself, she gets kind of like old and boring. And there isn't the, how am I going to be a queen and it's too much and is my marriage going to be okay? She's just kind of like, I wear my twin sets and I ride horses and I do what I'm. supposed to do. It seems like me and Philip have a comfortable arrangement. And the drama very quickly shifts to the younger kids. Yes. And the Prince Charles stuff is just, the Prince Charles and Princess Diana is like the single most fascinating celebrity story in the world in history to me. I mean,

I think that's just kind of what I've consumed most about because when I grew up and, you know, how many people magazines I read. And crucially, in Peter Morgan's film, The Queen, that starts with Diana's death, correct? So he has not done Diana yet. Right. Right. So, and that starts in, they were married in 81, so I think that starts in like 1980. Right. So they're going to do Thatcher, probably next season. Yeah. So Thatcher and Diana is, you know, that's what I'm looking for. That's what I'm really excited about. Keep it together, Western civilization. We just need two more crown seasons. That's what, I mean, that's the most exciting one. I think that I expected, especially for these first four episodes, which seem to go from their 64 to what's, the royal family is like

is 69? Abervan is 66. Right. And then the documentary, which is episode four. 67 is Athens, yeah. Okay. So. They do three years in four episodes.

Is that typical for them? No. It's much more compressed in the earlier seasons. Yes. Okay. So I kind of expected a lot more, like, of, you know, the Beatles and the Rolling Stones and everything that was happening in London in the 16. which was kind of the very exciting cultural revolution.

And I expected a little bit more of the queen interacting with that and not knowing what to do. So we didn't really get that. That's okay. It's interesting the choices that they make, and we'll talk about this as we break down the episodes a little bit. It's really interesting to see the things that they take dramatic liberties with and the things that they maintain historical accuracy with. Why don't we start? Because I think the first two episodes we can get through pretty quickly.

Yeah. And that's Olding and Morgonology. Right. I don't know. Olding was like very pleasant, very brief. It's table setting. Yeah. A nice little spy story wrapped up in there.

I thought it did a nice, it was kind of like, this is how you make a show when you know you have to make 60 episodes. And sometimes they're just going to make like, kind of like, let's get this one out of the way so we can get. I mean, I think, I think Abravan and Bubbikins were phenomenal pieces of television. That's when it turns on. Yeah. But they're kind of, this episode is directing.

This episode is addressing head on the fact that, hey, we have brand new people. And this is different. And it's a transition and it's a new phase of history and it's new cast and you've kind of got to get used to it. I think from a writing perspective, just all the doubles. It's so smart. Yeah. And also just even when Sir Anthony Blunt is giving a speech about paintings that is essentially a speech about himself, which is also essentially a speech about the Cold War, you're like, you know what? It's not like all these other shows are doing this right now.

It's not like we get like an abundance of really smart writing about, about like, identity crisis within a national history. And it's also about the queen. Yeah. And it's also about Olivia Coleman and Claire Foy. It's very smart. So basically, Olding, Wilson wins, Churchill dies. Cold War comes to Buckingham Palace. The royal art curators revealed to be a Russian spy, but he stays in the court.

So it's not to cause a scandal for MI6, who at least in, in British history, are still probably recovering from the Kim Philby scandal. Right. Which did happen. Does that get covered in two? I don't remember. No. Because they do perfumo, right? Yeah, they do perfumo, but I don't think that they... Filby doesn't come up. Right, they don't bring Philby out.

So for people listening who maybe aren't familiar, Kim Filby was essentially one of a group of British spies who were revealed to be Russian double agents, who had gone to, I believe, Cambridge, and sort of been, not radicalized as just the word, but, like, I mean, they returned then. Yeah. And it is believed to be the basis for Tinker Taylor Soldier Spy.

So if you watch that, that's sort of what it's drawing from. Let me ask you something. Sure. I was watching this with my husband last night. As soon as you said radicalized, we were just talking about this spiring. And at the end of this episode, I was just kind of like, it really seems like a lot of trouble to be a KGB spy. Like, I don't know why he's doing this. Right.

Why would you, because you're spending your whole life in enemy territory and risking everything for what? Yeah. I don't really get it. Would you be a KGB spy? Well, I think that's like, okay, so I know. Because my husband was like, I get it. I know that this is the part of your brain that's like, let's break down the Miles Garrett-Mason-Rudolph thing and think about it in context.

But what's really interesting to me about this is that I have heard stories from my grandparents, from members of my family over and over again, which is like basically how their politics from their younger days, from their early adulthood, wow. up coming back to bite them as the 50s and 60s went on. So my grandfather, I remember my grandfather, my mother's side, telling stories about how he had been, gone to, you know, socialist and communist meetings in New York in the 30s or, you know, and then when in the 50s, when House of an American Activities was happening and there were local versions of that. New York was asked to like finger people that he had been

in meetings with. I mean, so it's just kind of like a, The context of it is so remarkably different, I don't think I could be a double agent. You don't. But I feel like the fact that you don't think you could makes you the best candidate for it. Well, right. I mean, this is my cover story, right? It's like, I'm so neurotic. I could never do it.

It's like actually, you know, but it does seem like a tremendous amount of trouble. That's literally what I was about to say. I was just like, it's so much work. Like, they're also like, they're repressed sexual identities. Like, all this stuff is tied up into this, like, these guys who are all in love with each other from Cambridge. Yeah. But I'm just kind of like at the end of the day, you still are just going back to your apartment on the ground floor of Buckingham Palace. Like, why bother? Also, no disrespect. I've never visited the place. But I just think London sounds like a better place to live than Moscow.

Right. But you are. That's why you're already living there. It's not like you have any hope of, I mean, I guess Kim Filby ultimately did like. He went to, he went back to Russia. Right. Because his cover was blown. But I think in the ideal situation, you're just going to be living by Western values your whole life. Yeah. And just kind of reporting back to some, I don't, I don't know. Some ways that is the ideal version of it. I guess so. It's just like, guys, guess what? The Beatles are huge here. Send jeans.

I know. Anyway, I walked away from this just being like, I don't, I would not be a spy. Yeah. Which is how you know that I am a spy. Blunt got the best of both worlds. He gets all the Caravaggio's. He gets to have nice high tea. And then he also is just like.

And gets to tell Prince Philip off. Guess what, Khrushchev. Yeah. It gets to tell Prince Philip of and be like, watch your back. Margaretology. Mm-hmm. So Helen Obama Carter arguably has. a harder job than Olivia Coleman.

Yes. In the eyes of Kirbyologists. Yes. But as Kirby, you break out star from the show in a lot of ways, at least has gone on to somewhat more successful movies than Claire Foy. As of yet, the jury is still out. Yeah, they're on different paths. I know.

And you're still First Man Hive. I know. Well, I don't know if I am First Man. I think she's very good in First Man. I would like her to do something other than play someone's wife in a historical setting. Yes. Okay. That's where I am.

I want that for basically... Or have Steven Soderberg film her on an iPhone. Yeah. As she loses it. Yes. I thought this was like a very fun episode. I thought that the crowns take on Lyndon Johnson was kind of like the last season of the wire where they did journalism. And you're like, wait a second, do you guys know what you're talking about it at all?

So when they do Lyndon Johnson, I'm like, wait a second, do you guys actually know anything about British people too? Or is this like a big ruse? Yeah. It's definitely not pro-LBJ. They're fixated on Vietnam and Britain being like, we're not going to help you with. But it's just like a lot of LBJ at the urinal being like, I'd rather skin an armadillo than talk to that like that crown figure, you know? I mean, did he not do that? I don't know.

Were you there in the room? I've not gotten to that part in the Robert Carroll books. Okay. Yeah. Jesus Christ, you're still pretty early on. Anyway. Yeah, I'm still master of the Senate. Yeah.

I mean, this episode to me, I also really enjoyed it. It just felt like they cast Hell and Bottom Carter because after the success of Vanessa Kirby, you need someone. of that caliber in order to keep people excited. And I love Helen Mom Carter. She's really like, she just comes right out firing. She comes right out firing. But then if you have someone that high profile and in a role that is such a central part to the success of the show, you got to give them something to do up front. And to me, this is just kind of like, okay, well, we have to have a Margaret episode.

Because otherwise, she has nothing to do. For several episodes afterwards, yeah. Honestly, Princess Margaret has nothing to do for the rest of her career. And that's like the tragedy of Princess Margaret. There was a book that came out a couple years ago that was by a writer named Craig Brown, and it's called 99 glimpses of Princess Margaret. And it's like a non-traditional biography of Princess Margaret that people really liked. And format-wise, I really liked it.

But it was the most depressing shit I'd ever read because Princess Margaret was just like an unhappy person who was mean to everyone until she died. Right. That's it. Like, she didn't do anything else. Bad marriage doesn't seem to have had like a very close relationship with her children, was just like pretty venal and self-involved, made nothing of her life. So that's hard from a TV character point of view. Yeah.

What do you think of New Tony? I mean. So long time watch listeners will remember me and Andy's delight at the character of Adam Galloway on House of Cards. Claire's world beat listening. I think he was also a photographer in House of Cards. Yeah. And he's just like, wears beaded necklaces and bracelets, and it was romancing the first lady.

Right. He kind of is doing that here. Yeah. I mean, it's so depressing. And they're also kind of, it feels like a repeat in a lot of ways. It's the same Margaret thing, but you just have to establish that she still kind of feels in the shadow of the older, which we knew.

interesting they use the same child actors as they did in the first two seasons. Yeah, yeah. You know, they're a little bit older because that's how time works. Right. But it did feel slightly repetitive or just to kind of give people a dose of Princess Margaret. Still great shot of her taking off the eyelashes. I really have to say, did you happen to notice that when they go on their American tour, Margaret and Snowden fly commercial? Yes.

So this has to be, like, they have to have done this before the whole mega, and Prince Harry private flight thing from the summer just in the timeline. Oh, yeah, you missed this? I somehow did. Oh, my lord. All right. I'll give you the very short version. But basically, Prince Harry and Megan Markle were, she was on maternity leave and they were

just roundly criticized for taking private jets to two locations over the summer, one of which was, to be fair, at conference about climate change, and they took a private jet, which is not really the optics that you want. But it became this huge, it was in August, so the British papers had nothing else to do. And it was just a disaster. And they were treated very poorly in the press, like, every single day, just on and on and on and on about private jets. And then Margaret is like the hairy of the crowd.

And they knew it a fly commercial. I was just like, this is amazing. This commentary is just baked in. To be fair, it looks like having the first class cabin cured out for you, basically looks like you have a flying apartment. Yes. Yeah, back in the 60s. It seems great.

I think that could be possible. for Harry and Megan. Anyway, I thought that that was just a very funny Easter egg. I had one more Margaretology question. Who are the Douglases in Arizona? Do you happen to know? I have no idea. Because can you stay at their house? It looks beautiful. Yeah. It kind of definitely looks like it was in California and not Arizona just from a foliage perspective. But I really liked the landscaping. The only thing that I want to say about Margaretology, well, there are two things. One between this and the first one, it's interesting how Olivia Coleman is basically like the comic relief in all of this, which is not what

what I would have said of Claire Foy. Yeah, her reaction to when they're explaining to her how the dinner went in the White House. And she's like, oh, dear. And then she's making Wilson do the limericks, and then he, like, gets nervous, and she's like, you've made it this far. But that makes sense for Olivia Coleman as an actor

because she does have impeccable comic timing. But you do see them kind of twisting the character to the actor. They're finding her. Yeah. And I would argue that, did you have any other Murgrenology stuff? Just the speech at the end about the dullness, which I kind of referenced before. The Philip speech. Yes. Which is definitely the thesis of these four episodes. I appreciate it. I know some people think it's a little obvious and it is a little like playwriting or whatever,

but I love it when someone comes in and it's just like, I'm going to give a really well-win speech. I don't mind Basel Exposition when it's written that way. Like, you know what I mean? If he's going to come in, he's going to be like, here's the subtext. If you're going to write it that well, I don't really care. Menzies is really good in these episodes. Yes. His standout episode is Aberton. And so let's talk about this. Did you know about this? No.

I did not either. I did not know about this. So obviously, if you've watched this, it's 1966, and it concerns the collapse of a coal tip at a mine in Wales that destroyed the Pant Glass Junior School and part of a small town. Killed 144 people, including 116 children. And that tragedy is dramatized in this show. It's painstakingly dramatized, I would say. Yes.

I think that there's a whole debate to be had about depictions of tragedies and playing something real for manipulative reasons. And I think, like, I often think about this with Spielberg because I think he's quite gifted at doing it. And also, I often feel quite overwhelmed emotionally and then a little bit manipulated when I see Schindler's, let's say, or whatever. Which isn't to say that it's not important to, quote, unquote, witness it. But I think that one of the reasons why I thought this was such a remarkable episode of television was not only did they do this painstaking recreation of the actual tragedy, but they really intelligently discussed how people interface with tragedy and grief. Yes. And various ways. So let's talk a little bit about this is one of the status episodes of television I think I've ever seen.

It's devastating. And especially the opening, as you said, they do recreate the disaster. but they also, you know, they recreate the school and all of the children. And I think in what's really a beautiful montage of all these small children learning the song and interacting with their families, it's like a real economy of filmmaking, but it just, it gets. And you get a sense of the daily life there in a very big way. And you're invested in all of these children and their innocence, like so quickly but fully. And then you watch what happens.

And then you watch parents and authority figures and. the institutions dealing with it for an entire episode. So if you don't know anything about it, you're watching this. And you kind of think, oh, I knew that there was a disaster at Abervan going into the season. But I was like, oh, their fathers are going to die. And you're like, oh, God, that's not what happened. And it's quite, it's really devastating. I mean, like, I actually took like a break in the middle of it because I was just like,

I just got to take a walk around the block for a second. This was so sad. You watched it on your birthday, too. I know. It was really, it's very elegantly done. You mentioned the word economy. I think that they're very tasteful and how they do things. You know, like when they show the people in the town and the minors whose kids are buried, essentially, trying to dig them out. They don't overdo it. You know what I mean? Like they don't linger too much. I think you get the point when Tony's there seeing it. I mean, it is like a restrained British take on it. But it's also really powerful when the Harold Wilson character arrives. Yeah. And there's this moment where there's a whistle because they think that they've heard a child. And so then it's just silence.

Yeah. And there's just no sound. Everything cuts out. And you're watching everyone react to this. And there's like tension. Are you going to be able to hear something? And it's just also so devastating. Yeah.

But it's from having everyone be entirely silent. It's from not doing something that it gets its power. Yeah. I thought even there is a surreal quality of this episode, the staging of the Harold Wilson press conferences where he's like walking into these sort of empty gymnasiums and it's almost like a Beckett play.

Like he can't see anything and it's just the spotlight on him and voices from the crowd saying, you know, who's to blame for this? And then we get into what will blame. And the idea that the Crown and the royal family are an easy thing to pivot

attention to. And I think, you know, you mentioned, In passing, the Megan and Harry thing and the British papers had nothing to do last summer or whatever. This is the – I guess one of the first times I remember on the show, I'm sure it's happened before, where it's explicitly made clear that this is going to be the whipping post. If it gets hot for politicians, they can always say, well, what about what did the queen do enough here? Right.

And I think this is maybe the first time that it happens in history because one continuing theme throughout this show is both – it's the devolving nature of the monarchy, but also. also the changing nature of the monarchy and what it means to itself and to other people. And we'll talk more about the documentary and kind of how the royal family is portrayed in the media, which is really undergoing a change in this time. It's like I think the Margaret and what was his name, the guy she wanted to marry, I should know this, Captain, not Phillips, but that guy. Oh, yeah, yeah, the guy, the equerry. Yes.

Who she wanted to marry and that being kind of played out in the press and then ultimately not getting married was it's portrayed on the show as like how dare the press even be writing about this and it's not the usual amount of deference and you kind of see that the protection of the royal family going away over time and I think that this is another like milestone in that of people realizing that they are a political football to be used.

Also we're seeing the rise of television starting to. That becomes much bigger in Bubbikins but I would just point out that one of the things I thought was fascinating also about this episode was it's the sort of first time in this show especially, I think, and we're going to see it over the next three seasons, I would imagine, this one and the next two. It's the major tension in England over the next 30 years is minors versus the government and the cold boards. And that defines Wilson's leadership over the years, and it'll certainly envelop the crown. I had a question about, so I thought one of the best scenes in the episode was the scene when

Philip comes back and he's opening his letters and drinking and he does his he says to her, you know, tells her about the singing. So Philip didn't go to the funeral. Correct. How do you feel about little flourishes like that? I think that that one. He didn't go to the funeral in real life. Like he goes to the funeral in real life. You know, it's not like they put him in the funeral to give the grand speech that heals everybody. He's there as an observer. And to the extent that this episode is using, I mean, this episode is using the strategy, which is complicated, right? But I think you didn't know about it. I didn't know about it. I think it does do it with a lot of respect and a lot of the power of this episode has been like, I didn't know that this thing happened.

And I didn't know how people responded to it. And Philip is there in the role of witness. So I don't, and I don't feel like he gets a tremendous amount of credit in order to. No, I don't think people are like, wow, Philip showed out. Yeah. It's, but I think that his speech to her about anybody, you know, he was like, it was extraordinary and anyone who heard the singing would be shattered into a thousand pieces. Right. But I do think the larger question of using this tragedy in order to ultimately develop character aspects of like the queen or other people.

And, you know, it ends with Harold Wilson giving her a speech about what it means to be in public versus what it means to be in private. characters we create for themselves. And, like, we're a long way from the tragedy of these children at that point. And that's, it's an interesting fit. I also just couldn't help watching this episode without thinking of the queen, which is the Peter Morgan drama that you mentioned that is about Princess Diana's death, but it's really about how the public and how the queen and how Tony Blair respond to Princess Diana's death.

And it's the exact same theme, which is the queen does not publicly express enough grief. And so then she is like deeply criticized by the public. And I think that the queen, the movie, is a better exploration of that for a lot of reasons. Because it's, you know, the Princess Diana thing was a tragedy. But I don't mean to equate them. But there was a media aspect to it that there isn't really to like 110 or 116 children. Sure. And then the movie brings together the Tony Blair and the queen and the Diana of it all.

a bit more, and this feels slightly forced to get, not forced together. But I think we get to see a very interesting, even if you don't necessarily look at it as this is 1,000% what happened and this is 1,000% what her reaction was. I do think that ending the episode, the penultimate moment, because the last moment is the credits with the overhead shot of the playground, but ending the episode with her listening to the recording of the hymn and the one tier going to. shout out to Olivia Coleman. Yeah.

Even if it's not, quote unquote, true, I think that it is a really interesting depiction of how many people often find themselves moved by the idea rather than the thing. Right. You know, whether it's, I am now imagining this funeral that my husband historically did not, but in this show did attend. I'm imagining these voices. For a character who's being forced, is almost forced indoors now, the interior

of the moment really spoke to me. Right. Well, and this is also about symbolism in all its forms, which she is also about symbolism in a lot of ways. And it's like what you perform and what exists for other people versus what exists for yourself. I agree with you. I don't love the title card at the end, which is just a little bit too much supposition. It's not even supposition because it's like people close to her say that it's one of her greatest regrets, which that's illustrated in the show. But somehow... It feels like almost relationship maintenance. Yeah, somehow of having to throw that in, you know, and if that, there was a piece in The Guardian about filming this episode and they filmed it not in Aberfan, but close by.

And they spoke to a lot of people who had family members and brought in counselors. And I think they did try to be as responsible about it as possible. And the piece would say this, but they were like it was a lot of these people hadn't talked about the incident until this moment. So, you know, if that title card brings comfort to these people, then what do I care? Yeah. And maybe that's what it is. But it was just kind of like one step too far in terms of like the reverence for the queen. Well, you know, this show is going to have to grapple with this again and again and again is it has in the past.

But there is a quote in the original Guardian thing that I was talking about, the making of this season where Karen, the Benjamin Karen, who directed the episode, talks about how there is a 90-minute cut of Abervan that feels way more like a Ken Loach movie. And he was like, but ultimately we're making the crown. Right. And that's the thing. It's like not every one of these historical moments is going to do a service to the legacy of those moments. They're ultimately about her perception and how they infected her. We initially talked about doing one through three for this pod, but this would just be too much of a bummer. And I'm really glad we did four.

So the last episode we're going to talk about today is Bubba Kins. And I thought this is fucking remarkable television. I mean, this is the crown. It's doing what it's doing. Because it's a family drama. It's also about imagery and myth-making. And it's about international conflicts. And it's about people being mad at each other.

And the weird tentacles of a royal, like, you know, how Alice can be. So can you break down Alice is because it's like the Tsar of Russia. Yeah. And she's the queen of Denmark, princess of Denmark? Yes. And then Greece. Yeah. So basically, and I'm not an expert on this because it's,

very complicated, but George the 5th, or who was before George the 5th? I think it's Edward the 7th. Okay. It might,

I think it's the 7th. Which one's boring and one's exciting, right? Yeah, and Edward the 7th was the one who, I think he was sort of similar to Charles in that he waited a very long time

for Victoria, his mother, to die so he could become king and then kind of just like got a little festive with it. Sure. I think that he invented a lot of kind of like the pomp and circumstance that we associate with the modern-day royal family.

But then there's George that, anyway, he and the Tsar of Russia and the Kaiser, who is, was the Holy Roman Empire? Was that still around before World War I? That's the time we're talking about. I think so. The Kaiser of something are all first or second cousins, because all of the royal family is super, all the royal family were super intermarried. Because Victoria had like 12 children and they all became princes of something.

So I think maybe Princess Alice is a grandchild of Victoria. Okay, yeah, and she was born at Windsor Castle. Yes. And then gets married off to Denmark, I guess. And then because of the totally nonsensical socio-political arrangements of the early 1900s, Greece gets given to the royal family of Denmark or something like that. They definitely, it's nuts. They just kind of, a bunch of countries that were not Greece,

we're like, what we're going to do is we're going to give you this royal family. Right. So Alice is a nun living in a convent. Well, so then they get kicked out. Yes. Because you know how Philip keeps being like, I left Greece in an orange crate? Yeah. So they got kicked out.

Which Anne is like, yes, you've mentioned. Yes. It's like a lemon crate. He's like oranges. But they get kicked out. And then Alice gets committed. And they show the rest of Phillips family in the Philip and Charles episode in the second season. I think Phillips' dad just like,

lives in Paris and is dissolut. And then all of Phillips' sisters marry Nazis. So it's a complicated family arrangement. Right. But she is sent to several mental asylums or hospitals. Treated by Freud. Yes. And then becomes a nun in Greece.

And this episode has international intrigue, globe-trotting, an exfiltration from a falling Athens, a documentary film being made. one of the most like Chris Ryan ready accents ever for John Armstrong from The Guardian, who God bless newspapers in the 1960s, apparently you could just call the Guardian on the payphone and be like, save me 600 words on the front page. And they would be like, you got it? Didn't ask about what dude, you're supposed to be writing about Muhammad Ali? Sure. Give me the 600 words, sir.

Also shout out to newspapers and newspaper writers who just read their published column, aloud to the newsroom. I guess that's Twitter. I guess so. I was going to say that I was going to start doing that, but I'm just like playing my podcast. R-T myself. Yeah, definitely. And then it's also got,

so they've got the setup with this documentary crew from the BBC. He was in Buckingham Palace filming all these people to make a very like supposedly friendly to the Royals doc, which then John Armstrong is like, no, sir, you are not. Friendly. And then on top of all that, we get a ton of,

of interaction across the family, which we at first had not gotten much of. Yes. You got a bunch of them in a room. You've got Philip with this person. You've got, you know, Anne and Alice and Elizabeth smoking cigarettes. Right. Margaret's around as being like, I hate TV. Yeah.

And I thought the introduction of teenage Anne really is like, okay. Amazing. We needed a little juice here. Yeah. And she gave it to us. She's fantastic. I mean, and she is like little. You and other reptiles.

She is little Philip. Yeah. And so it's very fun to watch Philip kind of be confronted with his same bad attitude. And they're the fun if the Windsors have dull people and individualistic people. Yes. They're the fun individualistic people who say whatever they want. Right. And yeah, I just thought it was moving, funny, exciting.

I mean, this is a family drama. Yeah. That's what it is. And they did have to do a lot in terms of introducing new people. And as you said, you want a family drama with stakes. And there are some intense geopolitical stakes. Yeah. But it is great when they're all kind of sniping at each other and trying to figure out who they're going to be.

And also how to explain that to other people. It has some tremendous real. All of this is real. The Meet the Press incident, real. He literally said the thing about selling a small yacht on Meet the Press, which is God bless. And then, or don't. But that's hilarious. and the documentary is real

and you can watch like a two-minute clip on YouTube but you cannot find it. Elizabeth did what she said she was going to do which is like I'd like no one to ever see this again. But it's 2019 and no one has leaked it. Release the Snyder cut.

Release the Snyder cut. The royal family. I really enjoy Snowden explaining what a documentary is to the rest of the royal family. He's so jacked. So funny. Yeah.

And all of the Prince Alice stuff is Princess Alice stuff is very true and really effective. Yeah. It's really cool because you can feel, I think Abervan is when the show is like, this is the third season of the Crown. Right. Like we got the first two-a-in, you're used to seeing these people as Claire Foy and Vanessa Kirby's parts. Right. And then Abervan like really wallops you with a mallet. And then I think that Bubbikins is just like, ooh, what an exciting. Like, at Menzies is really good in this episode. Yes. What an interesting time. And it's 67's. So, you know, it's a fascinating time in the world.

Right. And you start feeling the tensions of the world shifting. but also the family shifting. Like, here comes teenage Anne. Prince Charles is definitely... Here comes the belt tightening. Right. The pound, like all this stuff about, like, what is Sterling? They're going to be running Sterling.

Yeah. Right. And here comes, not only are they middle age, but now they have to deal with the next generation. Yes. So. Yes. And we'll be talking about next time. So I guess Thursday we'll do, what, five through...

Five through seven? Five through seven. Five through seven? Hot Prince Charles. Let's do it. Five through seven, hot Prince Charles. Thanks for listening to The Watch today. Thank you to Amanda Dobbins. Thank you, Chris.