The Watch - ‘The Old Man’ Is A Classic Thriller. Plus, the ‘Hacks’ Renewal and ‘Industry’ Is Coming Back

Episode Date: June 16, 2022

Chris and Andy touch on some news and notes, like ‘Hacks’ getting renewed for a third season (1:00), Andy making his way through ‘For All Mankind’ (15:15), and ‘Industry’ Season 2 getting a release date (19:00). Then, they talk about the first two episodes of the new Jeff Bridges thriller series ‘The Old Man’ (21:02). Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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at the ringer.com and joining me on the other line renewed for season three. It's Andy Greenwald! How is my second season received? Poorly. You really went away from what was working in season one

and I think a lot of people didn't care for the characters you introduced. That whole thing with like you and Anakin just never really caught on. I thought the de-aging worked well on me. I can't speak for everybody else. You know, Greenwald, maybe fairly, maybe unfairly.

We've developed a little bit of a reputation for being, what's the opposite of being force sensitive? Being Grand Inquisitors? Yes. So, I mean, those guys, they seem like they've got their spidey senses up for force beings. The point being, we're not going to belabor the Obi-1 thing today because we have a show that we want to talk about. That is fantastic.

And its first two episodes are up probably as you hear this. It goes up on the 16th. I believe they'll be up on Hulu tonight. It's the old man starring Jeff Bridges. So we're going to spend a majority of this episode talking about the first two episodes of the old man. Really, really hope people check this out. It's one of my favorite things I've seen this year. And I think that when we talk about it, just to let people know, we could, we'll talk about it broadly.

And then we'll ask Kaya to put in a very inappropriate sound effect. And that sound effect will signal some spoiler talk about it. the first two episodes. How does that sound? Will it constitute an inappropriate sound effect, like a lightsaber fight or? Okay, inappropriate maybe was the wrong word. I just mean like maybe a jarring or unexpected sound effect. For the old man, it might be the sound of two large dogs barking. That's right.

Or perhaps the rattle of statin pills in a small pill case. Okay, but we have other stuff to talk about first. Yeah, yeah. Before we get to the old man, I wanted to just go. over a few news and notes from Holly Weird. First of all, you know, you just had Lucia, Paul, and Jen from hacks on, was that last week? We actually aired that on Monday's episode of the Ringer Podcast Network Show The Watch. Sorry, brother.

You know, it's like, I do a lot of pods. So it's like, you get, you know. What do you do? Do you, to goose our numbers, perhaps artificially, do you subscribe to this podcast personally? Like, do you get alerts? On multiple platforms. Okay, so, okay, I was going to say maybe you missed the alerts. That's all I was going to say.

Oh, no. Kaya, do you do that too? Do you have a subbed on like Google pods and Stitcher? Thank you. Yeah, thanks for the, well, not on Google pods and Stitcher, but I am a loyal Apple podcast subscriber. Oh, see, I do Spotify. Yeah, I do Spotify, guys. I'm a big, big fan of that platform for podcasts.

I love Spotify. Andy, the reason I was asking you about your interview with the creative team behind hacks is because the season two of hacks ends, I would say somewhat definitively. I think get to the end of it and without giving anything away, I would say that that would be a very tasteful, appropriate series finale. And I think some people might have been like, oh, maybe they said what they needed to say. But a lot of people would have been like, I fucking love hacks. I hope they keep making this. And they will. Yeah. And when I talk to Luchia Paul and Jen, And it still felt like it was up in the air.

And I asked them point blank because they came on last year. And I was like, last year when we spoke and the renewal hadn't happened yet. Did you guys know? Was it a wink, wink scenario? And they said, absolutely not. We did not know for sure. This week when they came on, again, it was weirdly up in the air. And I think it was made even more weird by the fact that, as you said, a lot of viewers were like, oh, I guess that could be it.

Because they, and as they said in the interview, they like to push everything to what feels like a safe space. only to challenge themselves to push past it, which is something we celebrate in the best shows of the era. We were just talking about that in regards to Barry. Once again, I asked them, wink, wink, do you guys know if you're coming back? And once again, absolutely, both on and off the record, they said they didn't know.

And I flipped out. And I said it, I flipped out a little bit in the intro too, because I was like, what is going on with HBO? Right. Like, if they don't know that this is a no-brainer, not just because of what, and not even because of the excellence of the show, which I think you and I are in agreement about,

they won Emmys. It won Emmys. You know, and you don't get canceled if you win Emmys from your first season. You know, that just really doesn't happen unless it's some sort of, you know, behind the scenes train rack. So I made this impassioned plea to our good pal and loyal listener, Casey Blois. They like, get this done. I have some follow.

So he did for us. No. I found, you know, I have confirmed they did not know. You did shoe leather journalism. Don't undersell it, Haberman. Yeah. You got out there. You talked to some anonymous sources.

They did not know if they were going to be renewed or not, but it was not because of HBO's lack of interest in continuing the successful franchise. It was typical deal-making stuff. The deal got done. Everybody's coming back, and that's good news. And I was thinking about this, though, in the broader context of something that I think TV has gotten away from. And look, if you work in the business affairs departments of a network or streamer, this is your every day. But it doesn't come up as much in our conversations, which is, to say one of the most significant shifts, I think, in the industry when, over the last few years,

when we moved towards two things, one event series, limited series, et cetera, et cetera, and big blockbuster, you know, sell it from the poster, sell it in the pitch, movie stars coming to town type things and the need for more, more new, new, new to supply the streamers with new subscribers, is just the comfort level, both financially and creatively of, things that keep coming back. Yeah. You know, it doesn't have to be Dick Wolf's FBI Tacoma just because it's a long-running show.

You know what I mean? We seem to have forgotten the fact that our favorite shows of the past 20 years or at least the most celebrated ones ran for at least five plus seasons. Sure. Right. And so I think that the hacks as a consistent peg for HBO Max is hugely important and they recognize it as such. But can I ask you a little bit.

Can I jump in there and ask you a follow up, though? But I just wanted to say as a point, yes, yes, you can. I love questions from you. I'm here, you know, to serve as you. And if Kai has any questions, you know, whatever you guys need. But I just want to circle back to something that I think we said in passing in the last two weeks, which is to me the most, not biggest news, but I thought the most eye-catching news was that, not that Slow Horses was renewed for a second season on Apple.

We loved the show. We're thrilled that's coming back. And, in fact, the first season had a surprise trailer for the already shot second season at the end of it. Yeah, which was a sick move. It's that Apple was like, yeah, guess what? We're doing at least four of these. Yeah. Good.

Guess what? There are 10 books. Yeah. And it's working. And you have the talent. And it's everyone's happy and they've proven they can do it. So do that. And when I talked to Graham Yost in Texas, Graham Yost, who did justify it and is the executive

producers. He's like, we'll make these for as long as Gary Oldman wants to. Yes. And by the way, phenomenal. It's the same thing that happened. I felt last week when, or a week or two ago, when FX announced that what we do in the shadows was not only renewed for, what is it, fourth or for fifth season, two more seasons. It's going to be at least six seasons. There is huge, huge advantages to networks that have something

to count on, right? Like that is just for cost projections and all that stuff. But there's something huge for audiences too. And we've gotten so far away from that. I love these like votes of confidence. They can make the shows now. I do wonder whether that kind of vision should be baked into the creative process because you mentioned that they said that they like to kind of put themselves in a corner narratively, I guess, creatively where they're like, okay, we we emptied the notebook and now we'll see where we go next season. Now, I would point out that at the end of the first season of Hacks, it ends with a beautiful grace note. And then there is a, what happens next kind of moment? And that's not how they ended the second season. To be clear, they have said to me,

and they've said at both times they've come on the pod, they, had a, they have a multiple year plan. They, they aren't just, you know, just, just freestyling. They, when they pitch the series to HBO Max, they pitched how it ends. And it did not end the way season two ended. Okay. You know, so they do have that sense. I think though they, they do, and I think they're really canny about this, as a lot of the best creators are, trying to locate the sweet spot between the, oh, good, Deborah and the gang are back for another year and the, how can we these people. Yeah.

Bullet train of change and forward momentum that has defined contemporary TV. I think they've done it incredibly well. I think Mike Schur is really good at that with half hours as well. And, you know, Barry is now the reigning king of it. So it's an incredibly challenging balance. I just, like, is it, are we projecting when we say we just like long running competence to be rewarded? That's a great question.

You know, I know that we wanted to unveil one of Andy's viewing projects on this podcast. And that is that he is... You make me sound like Jerry Saltz. Like here's how I approach the galleries post-COVID. Obviously, like for the second season of For All Mankind, I made something of a big deal about that show. And I also talked about how I did not really watch the first season in the traditional way where I watched the second season, got about midway through it, loved it.

It was like, I kind of understand 89% of this, but I bet there's like 11% I'm not getting and pieced it together through skimming through the first season, which I had had some issues getting started with because those first few episodes of the first season of For All Mankind are a little difficult. And then, honestly, reading recaps. And I think that there's not really a wrong way to watch TV. I wouldn't recommend that being the right way. But you, traditionalist that you are.

Oh, my God. Completeest that you are. I am. A complete stranger to the 10-second ahead button are watching For All Mankind. You don't touch that button. Do you? What are you kidding me? What?

I do it when there are, I'll tell you when I do it. I do it during Marvel and Disney action scenes. I mean, I don't blame you, but still, I'm a little offended. I do it in scenes where I'm like, nothing surprising is going to happen here. And I don't need to watch a nine-minute scene of Agatha and Wanda throwing clouds at one another. I love right now the incredibly meta and beautiful image of someone doing a spit-take at this heresy while listening to us at 1.4. five speed. I'm not trying to be in rude, but like it's not Bertolucci. You know what I mean? I think it's okay to like sometimes be like, I have a lot of this stuff to get through.

I got fucking Steph on my plate tonight. Like I got some stuff to watch, you know? Well, it's also wrote AF. Like I, you know, I understand why there was a battle or siege in the most recent episode of Obi-Wan, but it didn't make it visually interesting in the slightest. Yeah. There was like, what constitutes, how many guys you do have to bring to call it a siege? also isn't it at some point it's like me and my friend standing on the other side of this door it's not really a siege is it well i guess not i feel like it how many people are on the other side of the door you know what i mean i feel like a siege is defined by the disparity in the numbers at least one of two o'shae jacksons you know the junior the younger yeah it's interesting question half of

half a pen 13, right? Half a pen 13 for sure. Isn't it pen 15? Is it? It's pen 15 because the five looks like an S. Oh, right. I forgot. Should we take that out or we want to keep rolling with it?

I think people need to know the truth about you. I wouldn't do that to you, but that's okay. Here's my point. How many lines has Maya Erskine gotten? Well, how many, let's do the new version of the Bell test? lines. How many of them were about Wade? Like, I really did wish when they got off the freighter. And for people who don't watch Obi-Wan, congratulations. But so much of the emotional weight of this television show is being carried by either a seven-year-old actor or the still

fresh memory of Wade, a rebellion pilot who died. If I was the guy who played Wade, yeah, I would be pretty pissed because no one else dies on this show. No. No. No. They can get stabbed by lightsabbers. Yeah, it's cool. Whatever. Wade is the only one. Here's the thing. Wade was beloved because when they get off of the freighter and everyone's like,

okay, cool, Maya, you're back. I guess you got the seven-year-old. This guy seems interesting. Maybe he's a Jedi and everyone's just waiting expectantly. Do you wait come? Where's Wade? Wade still owes me for fantasy football. Wade promised he'd teach me how to shoot free throws.

Okay. You were asking, we got off topic, as usual, when it comes to this. I'm basically asking whether or not more shows should have their multi-season arcs baked in. And I know that it's sort of like in vogue or it was a style of writing a show for a while there where it was like, you know, you never leave anything on the whiteboard. It all goes in and then you worry about next season, next season, because tomorrow's not promised or because this is the way that we're making stuff now. And I was just saying that there are some shows where I think that that works like Ozark,

where the whole point is to kind of almost feel like it's always ending because of the precarious situation of the characters. But then there are others like for All Mankind, which I think does it really well, where they can get to the very endpoint and then because they're doing this speculative history and now future, they can just kind of spin things any way they want. Well, for All Mankind, so to rewind the tape a little bit,

I think people are familiar. It is an Apple original. the third season just began and my goal is to catch up and be able to enjoy a conversation about the third season with you because, yes, I had tried to start it before, had failed, everyone went nuts for the second season

and I could start there, but I was kind of like I'm interested in this show's journey and one of the reasons why I was interested is precisely what you said because for all the talk of the new streaming outlets as an opportunity to push the envelope and do things that haven't been done before, watching the first five hours,

and they are hours, of for all mankind, really is a reminder that no one else would have taken a bet on the show other than the richest company in the world that was willing to give people runway to make content for them, separate from ratings or expectations. Now, I would imagine the show is now beginning to develop a healthy audience

and does well for them, but it's not just the confidence of having a major runner throughout the first season about a child who may one day grow up to be a significant character in the show.

I mean, that's right from jump, right? But that also, the series, and other people who may have struggled with the first episode may have noticed this as well, the series is profoundly about what if everything was different and what would that look like?

And the first episode is resolutely everything except one thing is the same. Now, it's a butterfly, flaps its wind, stuff, right? But I think the takeaway from the advertising was women are going to the moon early. And then the first episode, you're like, I'm sorry, are there women on the show? It's a wild, wild, old-fashioned bet that you're going to have a lot of, they must be there already. So that is

just staggering. It's been staggering to watch. I am enjoying the rhythms and the performances and actually that slow confidence a lot. Like knowing that not just these guys had a bigger story and they were eager to tell it, but what they felt was the appropriate pace, but also that feeling that you get when you start the journey a little late and you've already gotten some postcards back

from the first ports of call that really great stuff is on the horizon. So that is all phenomenal. I can't help but while watching it, and I'm only saying this because it might be interesting to people who have been watching it or who maybe are thinking about doing this as well, I cannot help but pepper you with texts about like, first of all, the show,

I've been wondering where some of my favorite actors and actresses have been. They've been on Fallenankind, yeah. They've been on Fallenkind. I just didn't know that. I'm so happy. Jody Balfour, great to see you again. Thrilled. Wren Schmidt plays like the first woman on a desk at Mission Control.

She's an engineer. And her plot line in the first half of the first season is Ron Swanson's plotline on Parks and Recreation. where he moonlighted secretly as a jazz musician named Duke Silver. Yeah. That's her serious plot where people are like, I'll tell people that you like to play funky horn solos, I'm sorry, piano solos in speak easies and blow your coverage.

She's like, don't you dare. And then it cuts like next week on For All Mankind. It's wild to me. It's calming. Like the rhythms of it are very old school. And I feel like you should get into it for the long haul, speaking as someone who's definitely watched every episode of For All Mankind in order. You're the role model here. You're the John Glenn of this particular program.

There's not a wrong way to watch TV. I did want to say one more thing about some Hollywood News and Note stuff. Sure. You know, we did, I guess in probably in December or January, we did our most anticipated shows of 2022 and episode. and it was noted by multiple people in various social media outlets that we did not include industry season two in that list. And that was an oversight. And it's not, I'm not too big to admit that I was, I fucked up there. But to me, putting industry on that list would have been like, I am also anticipating the Eagles winning the Super Bowl again. Like that, it's how I feel about industry is like I, it's so close that I don't even know that it needs to, to be acknowledged. But in honor of industry's season two debut date being revealed, it's going to be

August 1st, and a couple of tasty photos from the show this season, including a character I have a lot of high hopes for, which is Jade Duplass high roller. Yeah. Reading the financial times and just thinking about bear markets. I'm very excited for industry to be back in our lives. TV's pretty fucking good right now. Can I just circle back? You said that the absence of industry was noted on certain social media accounts. Were those social media accounts, Conrad Kay's Instagram account or Mickey Down? I cannot confirm nor deny that. For instance, the pod are CFOs, co-CFOs, Conrad and Mickey, have told us that they went for it this season,

which is pretty funny considering most of the first season is just coated in a fine mist of ketamine powder. Yes. So we're really excited about this. And also, I got to say, yes, TV is bananas right now, and we're going to talk about some shows that we love. But I kind of like the spot for them. I kind of like August. Dog days of summer.

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Learn more at Wells Fargo.com forward slash active cash terms apply. You know, I say the TV is so good, right? I just noticed that when I mentioned old man in the beginning of this episode, I think I described it as one of my favorite things of the year. there is a show coming out next week on FX called The Bear, which I would also describe as one of my favorite things of the year. So, Chris, I would as well. And we talked about we own the city in those ways.

We talked about Pachinko in those ways. It's actually been like a very, very, very good TV year. And, you know, for, I would say Barry, Saul, like we still have like a really rich bench of great shows that we've gotten so far. And we're only just into June. Yes, and it's been a very good year. We're not going to talk about the bear until next week. I believe you said all episodes, right, are going to drop on Hulu?

Is it eight episodes, I believe, go up. They're about half an hour each and they go up next week on Hulu. It is a half hour comedy, but, you know, a half hour, what they mean now, a dromedy kind of show about a three-star Michelin chef, played by Jeremy Allen White, returning to his family's beef sandwich shop in Chicago. A real, you had me at hello pitch for a show. Guys, the show rules. I'm so excited to talk to you about it.

But I think it's worth mentioning it, and I apologize, people can't watch it until next week. But there is something so thrilling and affirming about watching the bear screeners and the old man screeners this week. And shout out to FX, because they're responsible for both of these shows. both of these shows deliver on such a

I don't know like on a gut level you know they know exactly what they are they are made with very high quality and they're not bullshit and I like bullshit

you know but by bullshit I mean they're not like they're not IP they're not genre they're not tied into anything larger they you know they're just very very well made and satisfying

which, guys, in the industry, that still works. And I know it's really hard. And it's not just hard to make something that's good. I know it's hard to get the wheels of production and finance going if you have to convince someone. And again, when we talk about the bear, we'll have to talk about this. Like, how did Christopher Storer, who created the show,

communicate the tone of what he wanted to make if he had never made this before or if it didn't exist? Like, we're really going to show at the inside of a kitchen would feel like stress-wise. but also it'll be funny and also it'll rip your guts out. Like, how did he communicate that? Well, I don't know, but someone listened, you know. And similarly, with the old man,

look, you could on paper maybe roll your eyes when you saw this was coming. Like, oh, FX went big game hunting. Like, FX knows that they need to compete with the HBO's and the apples and the Amazon's who are making shows with all of the major Oscar winners of the last 20 years. Like, that's the business for a large swath of their. drama department, right? So they got Jeff Bridges. That's a huge one for them.

Like, that's what they were doing. Yes. And they made a show that is deserving of his talent and worthy of our attention. You know what I mean? Like, the game plan didn't end at the casting stage, which sometimes I feel like you can sense, honestly. This show, look, the old man ticks a lot of our buttons. We should say that.

Let's go over it. It is a thriller about older men. So clearly Chris and I were intrigued. Well, it's an espionage story. It's a chase story. Well, we'll break it down. So this show, the first two episodes are going up this evening. It stars Jeff Bridges, as Andy mentioned.

It stars John Lithgow. It stars Amy Brennam. It is essentially about a old spy who thought he had left that life behind him and had taken great pains to obscure his identity from his former bosses and his former adversaries over the course of the last 30 years. And something happens where he has put on the run. An old opponent basically wants revenge.

He's being hunted by his own government and he has to go on the run. That's essentially in the first 15 minutes of the show. As a kind of pitch, that's like pretty familiar territory, I would say. It's also, we should note, it was adapted, and for what I understand very loosely, from a novel by a great underappreciated thrill writer. Thomas Perry. Thomas Perry. Yeah.

So have you read any Thomas Perry's? Yeah, I read two or three. Metzger's Dog is probably my favorite. I forget the names of the other two I've read. He's really good, but he also, at least to my knowledge, never really developed a character. You know what I mean? Like, he's still writing, but he didn't have a series. He has a couple of recurring character novels, but Old Man is not one of them.

And Metzger's Dog, which is the one, that's the one about like the, the guy. guy who tries to rob a UCLA lab of pharmaceutical cocaine but finds a bunch of CIA plans instead? I mean, did everyone else's skin just tingle? Like, it's not hard to get us to like something, guys. Just bring in the pharmaceutical grade cocaine theft. So the reason I love the old man, and we're going to talk a little bit in depth about these first two episodes that you can watch. They're quite long, so I don't expect everybody to jam them out tonight. But people are aggressive. So let's go through them. And I want to give people something to listen to once they're finished.

It could just be the pitch and I would probably be into it. It could just be the most generic version of this and give some nice moments for Jeff Bridges to cook. And he does literally cook in this show. And I would probably be on board for it. I think what they did here is pretty remarkable. I do too. I'm still processing it. But the first thing I wanted to talk to you about is that there's a little anecdote that Bridges tells.

And we should mention these first few episodes are directed by John Watts, who did the Spider-Man films. And were written by, and the show itself was written by Jonathan Eastenberg and Robert Levine, who did Black Sails, which is a show, a pirate show on Stars a few years ago. And I want to focus on the writing because Bridges tells this story while he's cooking a meal for Amy Brennaman in the second episode. So you tell the story, then I'm going to have some comments about the cooking. Okay. I do too, actually. He's essentially telling this story to her, and the point of the story is that he knew a man who is essentially saying that language just obscures meaning. And I thought that was a pretty funny anecdote for him to tell because this show for me is all of the meaning comes out of the language. It's written in this very classical way, I would almost say, of these long scenes with pretty extended. monologues for the characters that are absolutely beautifully written.

And this might be like a little bit prosaic, but like when you watch Bridges or Lithgow do these scenes, it's like watching a great swimmer where you know like all the technique is under the water. But these guys are such pure like graceful old like beauties

that they are like grinding through this copy like pages and pages and pages of dialogue. And it is gorgeously written and you're just like completely lost in who these people are. You don't even think Bridges in Lithgow. Because there are sometimes where you get an older actor doing like a

hey, this is my award run. That's not this man. This guy, what his name is is up for debate in the show. It goes in the pantheon of Bridges performances and I have to say I find Lithgow mesmerizing in this so far. I think we should start here and I'm sorry. I'm stepping

on something that you said to me when we were texting. about it. Like, this is worthy of them, right? Like, first and foremost, this is worthy of them. All actors want to work. All actors, I think, are by nature optimists, maybe because they have to be. You know, you have to commit yourself and you have to trust. And if it's just on the page or it's just a director meeting with you in your trailer, like, you're not going to half measure it. You've got to give it your all. And then sometimes you see the finished product and you're like, I gave too much of myself, you know, I bet on the wrong horse and you got to get up and do it again. and that's always the case.

But in this era of like, you know, super pumped television, like, people fall into holes that are carved for them in projects that aren't necessarily worthy for them, but the paychecks are worthy of them. And I don't even mean that with cynicism. It's just like that's the way the industry works. You're going to do this here. You fit in here. You slot in that. Then maybe you'll get another one for yourself later down the line. These are two roles that are deserving of these actors.

And they sense it and they make the most of it. And it's really, really, really thrilling to see. I mean, Jeff Bridge is one of, if not my favorite actor of the last 50 years and able to bring his whole entire self to this, including, as we learned more recently on the press run, nearly dying twice while making this movie, both this show, both from cancer and from COVID. And, you know, the show is called The Old Man. He is, he's not at, he's, he's not at 100%, let's say, physically or otherwise. and but he's still Jeff Bridges. And Lithgow, like, such a unique talent that, you know, he can, well probably most people will know him from Third Rock from the Sun or, you know, from.

Or Dexter or something, yeah. Yeah, but his last few years alone, like, whether it's the Crown or Perry Mason, like, he's always good, right? But this understands what I like most about him, which is that just kind of slightly off-kilter cerebral. human, you know? This is a character who, and then they introduce them in beautiful ways. And this is the thing that I can't get over, and maybe we'll get to talk to the creators about this. You're right. This show is super well written. I love that there's space for these speeches.

I love the way the characters deliver these interesting, looping soliloquies that are actually about the nature of the world, not just about the present moment. I love that John Watts, who does a brilliant job here, and I'm super psyched because the great Greg Heatonis who did Banshee and Corey. He's up next in terms of directors of the show. So it's A-plus down the line. Watts knows what he's doing, right? There's two scenes early on where characters deliver monologues, not even looking at the person they're talking to.

One is Joel Gray while oil painting? I mean, come on. The Joel Gray scene is unbelievable. They understand what this is and what it can be, and it's the kind of stuff that can only work in this genre with these type of performers, I think. But what I want to say about the writing is, it's very rare to have a show that is this written that also feels somehow simple.

It does not feel cluttered. Now, it's a spy show, so it could get more complicated as it goes on. It would almost be weird if it didn't. But while I was watching it, I was just really marveling at the efficiency and economy and the clarity of the storytelling to get us from, here's an old man having bad dreams to, wait, now he's got a gun in his hand, now he's on the run. now he's engaged in one of the more memorable and intense fight scenes

that will not require a 10-second skip that you could ever find. Usually when shows are very, very written, they kind of forget to be simple at the same time. You get lost in it. But this seems like a really brilliant synthesis of writing, acting, and directing that I was really, really, really impressed by. There is plenty to hang your hat on here. it's not all people in room

talking that sequence at the end of the first episode is going to be talked about a lot for the rest of the year. It's basically a two set fight sequence that takes place inside and outside of a car that is unreal and like kind of don't understand

how Bridges pulls this off because it definitely looks like Bridges. It doesn't look like any stunt doubles working there. I wanted to ask you a little bit about this sort of almost like classical nature of the story

because you know there's there are some flashbacks kind of explaining why who the Spurge's character is and what he was doing and then there is also like these allusions to

I think one of the things I like most about it is that there is some mystery but it's not annoying me that like they won't just reveal what is motivating these people you know like it's pretty clear what's motivating these people and they're just kind of

piecemeal giving it out. But there's almost like, I think, going to be this like Helen of Troy story going on with Bridges' wife and whatever he was doing in Afghanistan and all this stuff. And I just love

like, I know this is stupid, but it almost kind of reminds me of Top Gun Maverick where it's just like all you need is like the enemy and the hero. You know, and this is not like a you can't be elite at every part of a story. Nobody can't. And one thing that you and I always talk about, whether it's on the mic or off the mic,

that we love about our favorite crime writers, and we always mention the god James Cromley in this conversation, but I'll throw in my beloved Ross Thomas as well. Some of it's bullshit. Like there's just like the, to fit the conventions and to set up the pieces that you most want, you've got to have the red herrings and the black hats and the whatever. And you have to embrace that aspect of your storytelling to get the other parts. And now you can't then bullshit your way through the other parts.

You can't have subpar action set pieces. You can't have discordant trade talk. You can't have characters without emotional stakes or senses of humor. And this show gets that balance right. So like when they start talking about the Mujah Hadin and the 80s, yeah, I get it. I don't particularly care yet whose side the warlord was on. I mean, it'll become relevant when it becomes relevant on screen with the present-day versions of our characters. It's there.

And I get the history, but better because it's a show about older people. The history is baked into the story. So it's not just flashbacks for flashback sake or for exposition's sake. It's because what do you want in any one of these stories more than anything else? You want a protagonist and an antagonist with a shared history and a deep affinity for each other that borders on the either insane or the romantic. And within 40 minutes, maybe less of this show, Lithgow and Bridges are on the phone with each other. Yeah. And my God, to be actors of this caliber, you make it, if you, you know, put a bag over my head and make me repeat what I saw, I would tell you that it was the diner scene in heat that they were there together.

But they're not. I was going to ask you. Is it, is this the best COVID show? Because 40% of it is people talking on the phones and their cars. And I was like, and somehow it works? Yeah. Yeah. It's like the end of the, we're towards.

the end of the second episode, ends with this incredible scene with Lithgow in like an airport parking lot on the phone. It's just got everything, man. It's really like every character at least gets a little bit of a house of highlights real. Like it's, they've really got something going here. I'm very curious to see how it sustains itself. Also, take advantage of what the game gives you. So the show is called The Old Man and it's starring older actors. Now, Jeff Bridges and John Let's go can and will always work. Amy Brennaman, who is not old, by the way, can and will always work. But there are benefits to casting older performers and having characters who have lived life. You know, there's huge benefits to it that we often don't get to see because, you know,

this podcast aside, this is still a youth-driven culture, and those aren't stories that get on the screen. And so I appreciate that those involved knew the opportunity they had. Yeah. That by having Jeff Bridges and having a show called The Old Man, they could have people who have lived lives and made mistakes and have scars and bruises and different perspectives than a lot of the protagonists we often see. Yeah. It's just, it's in little ways.

Like the dinner scene in episode two. It's got dignity. It's got dignity. Yeah. It's a great word for it. It's not, it's the dinner scene Andy's referring to is a scene where Amy Brennaman asks Jeff Bridges' character out. It's Amy Brennan's character asked Jeff Bridges' character out on a date. and they go to a steakhouse and she unthinkingly kind of leaves her pill tin out.

So it's like the pill she needs to take before she eats. And they have like a compare and contrast of who's taking what and, you know, reflux and acid reflux and this and that and the other thing. And it leads to a beautiful exchange about Jeff Bridges's wife or his late wife. But it's not played for like cocoom laps. It's not like, oh, man, then I got my hip replaced. And then, like, I can't, you know, the kids with the volume on the TVs these days, it's not that.

It's like, this is just a reality of these two characters at this point in their lives. And maybe it's just because that's probably, like, closer to what's relatable to me now than it is, like, 20 years ago. But I thought that that scene was just treated with the utmost respect. But I think that then I think you've stopped short of the best part, which is that Brennaman delivers essentially a monologue, It's interrupted slightly about her past and what happened with her marriage. And it's beautifully done.

And it's deeply considered. And it was surprising. Two versions of the same story, basically. Two versions of the truth. And look, like, I don't want to, I don't want something to get lost in the hyperbole that we have for these first two episodes of the show, which is this is, this is TV writing, writing for the screen executed at an extremely high and professional level. Like, right, this is not Twin Peaks to the return. Like, this is not breaking the form. The idea of a character sitting down at a restaurant in which it takes a really peculiarly long time for any waiter to come and offer them anything.

I hope they didn't. I mean, times are tough, but that would question the 20% gratuity automatically. You know what I mean? Like, they wait until she's done with her third monologue to be like, would you like to see a wine list? Well, maybe she thought she was like in the middle of something, you know? They sat down at a restaurant. I think they'd like to see a menu. Come on.

I feel like this is when the advisory committee behind the bear needed to get involved. With this conversation. We're all doing our best. Do not tie gratuity to that. You're right. I always tip 20%. However, my internal, my internal Yelp review that I would never write would remember that. Anyway, my point is, what she does is, if I describe it, I'll give you two versions of the same story. Amy Brennaman delivers two beautiful speeches that really surprise and provoke about the nature of truth and are emotional.

honesty versus how it's perceived by others, right? Or, that's one version of it. The other version of the truth is Amy Brennaman's character delivers a convenient monologue mind from her own past that ties into the overall theme of the show about who is the hero and who is the villain. All of that is true. Yes, and I don't mind TV writing if TV writing is good.

That's what I'm saying. You've got to admire the machinery. It's beautifully done. And I really don't want to do this, but there is a difference between how the characters and the old man artfully write artfully speak their truth towards a theme of an episode and the way characters say on Obi-1 do that

you know and maybe part of it is that what go ahead yeah I mean this is also what you've said is both deeply true and also speaks to one of the existential challenges of doing a TV podcast which is they're not the same species yeah it's not even And, you know, in a way, it's being like this, the food at this restaurant is different from the food at the donut truck. You know, it's just like, it's just they're not even trying to compete with each other at this point.

But it is frustrating for a number of reasons to have those two things out in the same day or two because one wishes. You know, I think the professionalism, the respect for the abilities of the performers, the, just the consistency of excellence across the production. I wish we could see that in the genre stuff or the IP stuff or the Disney stuff. I wish we could see it. But, you know, they are, in TV, so much of it comes down to the things that we don't often talk about or we're not privy to, which is, you know, money and schedule. And one thing that I would also say about the old man, and we might get dinged for it by our palpit FX, but like, this does not look like an FX show, you know. And I don't know what the budget was, and I don't know what the budget is relative to some of their other programs. and I know that they've done a lot of things to, like, invest more heavily and, you know, blah, blah, blah.

But there used to be something that we would say, like, even with a show, one of my favorite shows of the century, the Americans, where it had a certain look and feel. And it was a similar feel to some other FX hour-long dramas. I don't know whether it was budget or production style or whatever. But remember, we used to talk to our buddy Chuck Closerman about how he was convinced and we agreed with him that when we were growing up in the 80s or 90s, you could see the way a show was lit. even on our bad TVs and be like, that's an ABC show, or that's an NBC show, or a CBS show. There was something about the grain or the fidelity. That still was sort of true with FX, and this, this is top tier.

You know, this just looks like what we've come to expect, and probably that comes down to budget. And similarly with Obi-One, Obi-Wan had a hefty budget, but how much of that is going to the nine executive producers and to you and McGregor and for all the special effects and to get it all done in time for the, you know, it's just they're running different races. but it really does remind you of what's possible.

When you get reminded what's possible, because there are plenty of expensive shows that aren't good, you know, that don't have the script or the momentum or the story. I will say one thing negative about the old man. Okay. Don't ever come to my house and dump a pile of barely sweated onions into scramble eggs. And then pour it on a piece of white to, okay, so thank you for this. I think, broadly speaking, this is some of the...

the best directing work of John Watts's career. I think it's just like, I think he did a beautiful, I keep saying that word. I really was just taken with the show. And I just, I keep using the word beautiful because I just felt like all of it was considered. Like he and the rest of the creative team were like, this is what this should feel like. Here are my references, and I'm going to shoot it this way. One of the things that led to was the monologue that you started the conversation with was, is done while Jeff Ritch's character is cooking a meal for his Airbnb host, which, by the way, I've had a couple Airbnb experiences. I don't think it would go like this.

Whatever. I've never stayed at Shea Brennamin. And while he's talking, and she, by the way, is just like, you look like you're really good at this. Like, you've done this before. The camera is angled in such a way that we see he does not seem very good at this,

nor very confident this. Well, he's making a simple dish. He's making scrambled eggs, I guess, with an onion. With a giant red onion, dumped in, and then, like, the final touch, nine shakes of pepper. Right before, he doesn't plate it out.

of lemon for acid. On your scrambled eggs? That was what I was going to, yeah. But it, for me, it was the toast. Because he's cooking with a cast iron skillet, and we don't see what it is yet. And I thought he was cooking dinner. I didn't know it was the morning.

And she's like, you really look like you know what you're doing. He's like, ah, wise Pashtun man once told me this about the simplicity of living from your garden. And then the toaster pops. And I'm like, oh, he made a piece of wonderbread for his dogs. I thought he was cooking for the dogs, Chris. Not that he was making a food plate. for this hash.

What you don't know is that the old man was actually originally pitched to FX as a gritty take on the Swedish chef mythology. Work you burghie. Put the onions and the eggs.

It was called bork, bork, bork, the series. That would go really, that would go for well in my house. But like, again, it was the camera angle and I understand he was like, we're going to shoot from counter height and we're going to let them

literally cook. You know, he's doing this. It's not, but sometimes when you're having characters cook, you don't show their hands. And you see Brennam and Bridges are doing their best. Like, when all the eggs and hash slop off of the piece of unbuttered white toast that he put it on,

you see her like pick up a piece of it, try to restore order on the toast point. Like that's what the character would do. But like moments ago, we were told that this is the most dangerous wild card killer in the Eastern seaboard. And then he picks up a six inch Wostov chef's knife to cut a piece of bread and his hands are shaking. Well, don't do me like that. We hope everybody checks out the old man. It's definitely something we're going to return to in the coming weeks, and we can't wait to talk about that and the bear next week.

Andy, we will be back on Monday, TBD, what we're discussing, but I'm sure it'll be rewarding, you know, intellectually and emotionally for our listeners. Yeah, I mean, I feel like it's a free-spirited conversation about TV and pop culture that is consistent. Happy episode 667. Yeah, big week for us, all of us, the rigor with big anniversaries. I did suggest when you pointed out to me that, well, and we're saying this, congratulations, Bill, for a thousand episodes of the BS report, that we were parked on 666, which felt, felt good.

Like, that felt like where we should have. You thought we should have quit. I mean, yeah, right? Like, right? I mean, we're doing, it's fine. Yeah. It's fine. When that day comes, I want that to be our attitude.

Like, yeah, yeah. Well, we should stop at 990. then. That's coming sooner than we think. I know. That's like 150 weeks away. Should we call our shot? Should we be like JZ with a black album?

Be like, that's it? And then come back immediately afterwards? Come back with like a Pepsi commercial two and a half years and be like psych. I'm avail. I'm a veil.