The Watch - The Problem With ‘Ready Player One,' Plus ‘Trust’, ‘Atlanta,’ and ‘Terror’ | The Watch (Ep. 240)

Episode Date: April 2, 2018

The Ringer’s Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald review Steven Spielberg's ‘Ready Player One’ and question its message and whether kids today care about its nostalgia. (4:00) Later, they discuss the standout second episode of ‘Trust’ (24:00), check in on ‘Atlanta’ (35:00), and clear out for Chris’s pitch to watch AMC’s chilling new series ‘The Terror’ (39:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the watch is brought to you by Mac Weldon. Whatever you're wearing right now, Andy? Yes. Mac Walden's better. Whoa. Mac Weldon is a men's essential brand that believes in smart design, premium fabrics, and simple shopping. I love their underwear, but more so even. And, you know, I don't know.

I haven't checked this with the folks at Mac Weldon, but I'm going rogue. I love their t-shirts. Their t-shirts are the best-fitting, most comfortable t-shirts. I get a bunch of, like, solid-color ones from them. I love it. They have a line of silver, underwear and shirts that are naturally anti-microbial, which means they eliminate odor, and they want you to be comfortable. So if you don't like your first pair, you can keep it,

and they will still refund you no questions asked. Go to macwellden.com and get 20% off using promo code watch. Hey guys, welcome to the watch on today's episode. We talked about Ready Player 1. Andy had some mixed emotions, which I did not do a good job of hosing him down, but I feel like it's all the more entertaining because he was so fired up. We do do spoilers for Ready Player 1. We also, I suppose we did spoilers for Trust episode 2, but how can you really spoil history? You know what I mean?

We also talked about Atlanta. Not really spoiling Atlanta, but like we just basically talked about everything up into the most recent episode. And I talked a little bit about why I like this new AMC show, The Terror, so much. So let's go for it. I need sports to have to clear the room.

Stand up and walk now. Hello, I welcome. Welcome to the Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at the Rigger.com. And joining me in the studio, he just jumped out the DeLorean with suicide doors.

It's Andy Greenwald! If only. Wow. We're coming in hot today, buddy. Andy, what a chalk. The show is chock full of content today. Ready Player 1, trust episode 2,

a check-in on Atlanta, and a letter of recommendation from Terror Island. Or shall I say Terror Iceflow? I'm excited about this from you. I'm really excited to talk about that show, but before then, how was your weekend, by the way? Weekend was good. Happy holidays. Oh, yeah, that's right. Tough weekend for you.

He has risen. Two holidays. I'm talking about Jay Wright. It's a big night for the Philadelphia diaspora. Chris, I just had one note, and I apologize. This is a letter from Dattington Island. Oh, God. I just want to ask you about this, because I feel like there are some cliches in our culture,

this is not just parent-based, that are so established that I don't think we need to talk. about them anymore. Okay. Like what? Well, I'm getting to that. And so what happened this weekend, I was at a playground, and my older daughter came over to me and showed me something. And she said, look, and I said, what's that?

And she said, it's candy. A stranger just gave it to me. No way, really? A stranger literally gave my child candy. Can I just counterpoint? Yeah. And I'm not coming here to be the pro stranger lobby. Sure.

No, go for it. But your older daughter has met 30 people in her life? Yeah. So lots of people are strangers. But my point is, if she's... she was running with scissors, I'd be like, okay, I'm a cliche. Like, don't run with those scissors. I see what you're saying. Yeah.

I didn't know we still had to tell people not to take candy from strangers because I thought the stranger lobby had gotten together and been like, okay, we got to put the brakes. We got to rebrand. We got to rebrand. We got to offer other things. Can I ask a couple of followups here? What was the candy? It was, it was not like a DIY like a cronut.

Like a lozange that they had sort of, you just sprinkled with a little bits of razor blade. No, it was like a pre-wrapped. Halloween-sized Snickers bar. Okay, so some person gave your daughter a Snickers bar. Right. But I'm just, it was one of those things that kind of pushed me back. Like, what world are we in where we have to revisit all the classics? Yeah, right.

What else out there? Like, there's some things we've stopped doing. Well, obviously we learned from dark you're not supposed to walk alone in the woods. Okay, so I shouldn't have let her do that. Okay, so we both learned something. But this is just a note to everyone out there. Strangers, stop giving candy to kids. Okay.

parents tell your kids you can't do it you can't do it i can't hear you because i'm in the oasis that's what she's going to be saying jeez um i get the feeling like andy you want to i want you to i want you to i'm to clear out for you no is so for and nobody wants this uh we both saw already player one this weekend we're both where would you say your expectations were going into this movie uh low new stephen spillberg movie based on ernest klein's novel yeah uh starring tie sheridan mark rylance right Olivia Cook, who I found delightful. Yeah, she's good. Uh-huh.

What else is good about this movie? What else is bad about this movie? There was a thing that used to happen during the Grantland days when I would get, I would get heated about stuff. Like really, like really passionate, you know? Uh-huh. And you would sort of sometimes pour cold water on me. You'd hand me some stranger candy and tell me to sit a couple plays out. Give you a snickers, yeah.

And I worry because I did see this movie mere minutes ago. Yeah. I emerged blinking into the light like Ben Mendelsohn in the back of a cop car. And I walked away thinking that not only did I loathe this movie with every fiber of my living being. I had a feeling this was going to happen. I think it's probably evil. And it made me think that we pretty much deserve everything we have as a society right now, including... I'm sorry, I clapped.

I know I'm not supposed to do that. I just think maybe... We deserve what we have right now in our country and in our world. Okay. Steel tariffs, bring them on. Like, if this is what we're doing with all of our culture and all of our artistry and all of our money and finance and capitalism, this is what we're doing. Uh-huh. We need to take a beat, okay?

We need to not just unplug this bullshit on Tuesdays and Thursdays. We need a hard reset button. We need Mark Rylance, an old man makeup, thinking he's still at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival, offering us a giant honking red button and we need to hit that. That's what I think about this movie. It's funny you should say that because Justin Charity has a really cool piece

about the Halliday character where he sort of critiques the idea of maybe they just should have hit that red button or maybe it should have at least been a larger conversation. By the way, we're going to spoil Ready Player 1. Yeah. Right? Should we have said that?

Sure. We're going to spoil Ready Player 1. Which, by the way, here, let me spoil it. Don't see it. Fight it. Don't do this. I feel like I, there's a part of me that agrees with you. There is a part of me.

And I think here's the thing. You're coming out of this movie. Now, you texted me. I think you broke arc late rules by texting me during the film. Let me tell you, the family of four who are the only other people in the theater, were cool with it. We talked before the movie started. You were like, I may fire off some thoughts.

Yeah. Listen, you can't stop me, right? You can't. The end of the film is offensive. I was building an iron giant of takes in my brain. That's what I'm saying. The end of the film is pretty offensive. of it. If I had recorded this podcast yesterday afternoon upon walking out, I think I would have

been in that same zone with you. Tell me why. I wouldn't have been occupying Wall Street with you. Before I say why I think this was a tire fire filled with the burning embers of American greatness, why did you find the end offensive? Let's start backwards and work from there. Because it's the same self-serving narcissistic bullshit that walls, these people off in the first place from the fact that they live in giant trash heaps. Maybe we should interrogate that, homies. And that like, we're, it's sort of alighted that like, it's sort of blithely gone past where it's like the corn syrup riots and the bandwidth riots or whatever it is a corn syrup shortage and

the bandwidth riots is what's created this, this world in which there are essentially two companies. Yeah. And the heads of those companies are trillioners, which is totally a world we're going towards. But that upon winning this. game rather than liberating people, rather than redistributing the wealth to help people. Right on. Preach it. He's like, I'm going to get a cool loft and give people two days off a week.

Yep. And what limit advertising within it? Is that the idea? Let's let's just, let me just communicate how divorce this movie is from humanity. The emotional accusation that anchors the entire film is, you killed my mom's sister. That was fucked up. That was like, I was like, what? They really pulled some punches here. You moved on real quick, son. Yeah. Let's just go right at it. Okay. The group of people in the world who need the least coddling in 2018 are fucking nerds. Okay? I'm sorry. Like, we are probably nerds. I had a Calicovision, homie. Yes, absolutely. Enough. My man never wanted to leave his childhood bedroom. We don't need to continue to worship him. That's fucked up,

man. Enough. Enough. Can we interrogate this a little bit? What's up with that scene? Yeah. Why is his own teenage self? Can you imagine? Like wild somber playing Atari or whatever and he's just like, I like to keep him here and play video games. And then when they're

leaving, your man's younger man's is like real sad. Like I'm going with old me now. My life is a sad tragedy. My guy's got the gap. braided belt and a space invaders tea and and some genes which admittedly are hip now. The thesis of this movie seems to be only through subsuming ourselves in technological corporatism that is completely enslaved not just to nostalgia but to this fucking our generation's nostalgia. The idea that pop culture ended as it I assume did for Steven Spielberg in 1989.

Right. is so profoundly depressing. It's so dark and messed up that they thought this movie was going to appeal to the same audience that went to Black Panther with its Duran Duran references, with its Chucky references.

You can tell the heart of the movie, whether it's, I didn't read the book, but you can tell that the heart of the movie and the story is not in that last bit that Rylent said where he's like, the thing about reality is it's real or whatever. Cool line, by the way, bro. And then, I don't really understand

is like when he's like, this isn't your avatar, like, what are you? And they don't answer that question. But the idea... You save that for Ready Player 2, too, man. Right, but the idea that this movie does say that being in the game is better. Yeah, it does. But it's very afraid of that idea. It is actually not interested in that idea.

It pulls out of the skid at the end because it's like, oh, that would be bad. It would be bad to tell millions of people that the reality that they're creating in a game or immersing themselves in the rules and minutia and mythology of pop culture, you can make the argument that Star Wars is just our version of Homer or whatever. I completely get it. Trust me.

We love talking about this stuff. But it is important to understand what goes in this box and is like the playpen and what goes outside the box. Thank you. You're on my side. And this stuff can inform. You can understand your own life through these stories.

But the idea that you would literally recreate existence with a haptic body suit and these glasses, like that's terrifying. And it would have actually been super brave for this movie to be like, you know what? Fuck this world. Unplug this. No, fuck this world.

That's the reality. Let's fucking live in Super Mario world. Like, let me just be this dude with cool hair who can dance on air. I get it. I get it. Life sucks. Like, let's do that. I agree. Like, be about that. Be, just be like, you know what?

Cash out, bro. Go into the oasis and never come back out. But no, you can't do that. They have to have the, if it's pump the brakes, and the kindly British butler comes at the end, it is like, oh, what a great idea, split the trillion dollars between the five of you. In the end, it was all about friendship. Yes, right. No, it wasn't. It was about fucking escaping your nightmare reality, which you still can't do, I just really feel strongly about this, that if we are going to accept that movies can

change our life, move our life, define our life, document our life, we're giving them a lot of power. And I think when we have to then be able to give them the power to say, I think this movie is low-key evil. I do. I think it sends terrifying messages. I think this suggestion that somehow, if only we could nerd out and then just all remember Bukhru Bonsai, yo, sometimes stuff doesn't matter. It's okay. Like, there's stakes. There's things that matter, like human emotion. And then there's movies, which I love.

This movie completely lacks stakes. It completely lacks consequences. It makes no gestures towards this game is actually a battle for the future of society. Even her, like, welcome to the rebellion thing, is actually just like, I want to win this game

so that they don't put ads in my game. And because my dad died at a loyalty center like, okay. And my most covert agent has a face tat and loves going to the Stack City Green Market on Tuesdays for those fresh carrot tops so we can make fucking pesto out of it. I'm going to do a couple of things. Here's a couple of things that were cool about this movie. Olivia Cook was cool. Tash Heron was fine.

Olivia Cook was very good. I thought it was a typically well-cast movie of adolescence to young adults by Spilberg. By the way, thank God the love interest wasn't a 300-pound man. It was just a completely charming, conventionally beautiful woman who happened to have a birthmark that made her look like Ziggy Stardust. Wow. What a comment about humanity and our willingness to accept people. I thought the Hot Wheels Chase was pretty cool. You were down for that.

The Overlook Hotel sequence up until the dancing was ingenious. And it was actually a moment where I was like, what if you had this world where all the things that were happening were based on people. knowledge of pop culture. But what if taste got in the way? What if people were scared of things? Or what if people didn't like Gremlins? Or what if people were scared of Freddie, but not Jason? What if there was some, you started to get into the actual psychology of the reasons

why people are frightened of certain things or excited by certain things? You have to go in the ocean, but people don't want to go in the ocean because of Jaws. There's something happens like that where we almost feel crippled by our own psychology around pop culture. And the Overlook Hotel sequence got at that a little bit to say nothing of the fact that this is a film about a frankly insane author made by someone who we consider one of the sort of grandotourism, post-war movies. And that's a book made by someone that he's sort of obsessed with.

Spielberg's obsessed with Cooper. He finished AI. The Easter eggs in the shining scene, the 237, like, those are like he's seen shining like 100 times. and the idea that you're playing with this death of the author stuff, that was a very fascinating place for that movie to be for 10 minutes and the fact that it feels completely different. That was the only part of the movie where Steven Spielberg unplugged himself

from Rich Person Oasis and woke up. That is the only part of the movie where you could sense genuine fandom in a movie that is ostensibly about fandom but is actually just about listing things. It's actually about the worst of nerd culture and geek culture of just knowing everything about every, but experiencing nothing. The Shining had no place being in this movie except for the fact

that Spielberg is deeply passionate about Kubrick and has a, I don't think admittedly, because I don't know if Spielberg ever psychoanalyzes publicly complicated, if not fucked up relationship with Kubrick, whom he admired totally and whom he, I'm not going to say he could never reach because they were ultimately very, very different artists. But the idea of Spielberg striving to be Kubrick, but instead being so much more successful. and so much more influential, but in some ways, in the wrong ways, is fascinating. So to look at that sequence where he's recreated something incredibly beautiful and haunting, and yes, I melted a little bit in that scene because I'm like, what if you could do all

this computing power and you recreate something that actually has aesthetics, that actually is interesting, and actually is compelling. What if you could walk around like? Yeah. But then he turns it into a zombie party, which is not self-aware enough. It almost is a self-aware. Khalidate comes back in that it sucks, where they're like, it's like the haunted mansion game that he's the first game ever made. He thinks, right.

I think he, Spielberg thinks that he's in on that joke that like there aren't zombies in The Shining. But in fact, he is, he is the pathogen. You know what I mean? He literally is putting zombies and a video game into the Shining. Yes. That's what, that's the closest this movie comes to art and to being of interest. So I understand. There's a, there's a place where I am morally offended by this movie and then there's a place where I am,

technically and virtuistically impressed by it. And I do think that even in CGI-filled, chaotic, sense overload scenes like that attack on the Halliday's Castle that they do, the final battle, Cam wrote about this in his review where it's like Spielberg always tells you where you are and where to look.

And even in a point where it's so chaotic like that, his understanding of depth of field, of using the whole screen, of tempo, of music, of pace is so unparalleled that you get caught up in that stuff. Like I was just like when they were revving their bikes because it's in the trailer and I was like, this fucking car chase is going to be so stupid, this race. And I was like pretty five seconds into it. I was like, I'm a child.

Right. There's the moment at the end when he's trying to put the key in the lock but the car is being rammed and the editing in the direction of that. At first, I'm annoyed because we know how this is going to work. out. We've seen this before. He's playing the hits. But I'm like, oh, it's actually the Rolling Stone is playing satisfaction. It's his hit. Yeah, exactly. He's playing his own greatest hits here. And it is worth saying how rare that he, everyone in movies are his children now, especially in big budget movies. But it is how it is incredibly rare to see spectacle that isn't just visual

diarrhea. Like even, I mentioned Black Panther. There were, in the action sequences, Black Panther, I couldn't follow the ball. It was like watching, it's like watching the NHL on television before there was HD or Fox's helpful golden. Yes, that's right. I didn't know what I was looking at. You always know what you're looking at here, but God, what a waste to be looking at it at all. I mean, I'm really stunned by this movie. And it just seems like, in some ways it is unique, but in other ways it is a typical Hollywood misfire where all of the reasons to make this movie were snowballing, and no one ever pressed that red button and said,

but wait, why, or how? Like, what are we actually doing here? Because the movie, the book was a bestseller, and it's just this ready-made IP machine that seems like it would be great fun for audiences. But when you actually try to consider what you're showing, what it means, if you think those questions at all, this is what you end up with.

It tank, did it tank? No, it did fine. I mean, it didn't do great. I think it's an original appeal. piece of content, which is very hard to sell. No, no, no, no, no, it's not. But the idea, like, it's not based on, it's not based on three other movies.

Well, except it's based on every movie. But I don't, this is the interesting question. Are we sure kids give a shit about Back to the Future? No, this is, this is what I'm saying. Buckaroo bonsai and Duran Duran. This is, this means nothing to a generation of people under the age of 25. It is, it is just, it is just dust, float. voting up. It's meaningless.

And it's not only meaningless, we are all Ben Mendelssohn talking about playing fucking Robotech or whatever he's talking about to a generation of people on- I like to crack a can of tab. Right. Yeah. Nobody does that, man. Maybe people did that 40 years ago. Yeah.

But Drake and everybody else on Twitch, Sidebar, I don't know what that is, are laughing at you. They're laughing at you. This is the problem with culture writ large. that there are moments, like when the super villainous, whose name is fucking finale, yeah, punches Ben Mendelsohn in the face, and he does like an Elmer Fudd, and like hits his head against the window,

and it's bloodless, we're like, oh, this is a, this is a goof. Yeah, this is a kid's movie. But it's not a kid's movie because it's so noisy and reference dependent. And fast times at Ridgemont High and John Hughes. Sorry, bro, nobody cares about this stuff anymore, except us.

And that's our fault. We didn't make a case for it to exist other than we're telling everyone culturally that we used to walk to school uphill both ways in the snow. That's all this is when we keep just recycling our own shit and building monuments to it forever instead of allowing anyone else to make anything new. It's incredibly depressing and totally creatively impotent, right? Hot wheels are cool, though. Hot wheels were super cool. Are we still recording or did everyone just pack up and leave? I think I clapped twice and we've been ranting for half an hour.

We're going to take a quick break to hear from our response. answer, and we're going to get back and talk a little bit about some of the TV that we do like. Today's episode of the watch is brought to you by the Black Tucks. The Black Tux is the easy way for guys to red suits and tuxedos online for more than a year now. I've been wearing black tux to parties, weddings, high class social events of which I frequently attend. You never know. You don't know a lot about my weekends. I'm wearing a tux right now from the Black Tux. I wear Black Tux to all my special events. Just place your order online and your suit will arrive 14 days before you. for your event. Then wear it, turn heads, and send it back three days after your event.

Shipping is free both ways. Whether you're going for a style of selected outfit or building a custom look, the Black Tux has tons of suits and tuxedos from you to choose from, and they are always adding amazing new selections. Plus, with their new fit algorithm, you don't have to awkwardly measure yourself. The Black Tux does that for you. They'll even let you feel the fit and quality of your suit months before your event with a free home try on. Look as great as your date with the Black Tux to get $20 off your purchase. Visit the Black Tux.com. com slash watch. That's the black tucks.com slash watch for $20 off your purchase. The black tucks premium rental suits and tuxedos delivered. Today's episode of the watch is brought to you by

movement cheap sunglasses. Always look terrible. But every time I buy a $200 pair, I feel like I'm getting ripped off. Thankfully, our friends at Movement, yes, the watch guys, have decided to make quality, trendy sunglasses at a fair price. These things are not plastic. They are acetate. They have lots of styles to choose from from classic, trendy, round, aviator, mirrored, polarized for him or her. I actually bought my wife a pair of lovely rose-tinted sunglasses that she adores. You can get them polarized, all starting at just $70. These are seriously my go-to shades, whether they're for myself or a gift. Get 15% with free shipping and free returns 15% off by going to mvmt.com slash watch.

You know MVMT for how they have revolutionized the watch industry. Andy and I've talked about their watches before. Now is the time to check out their sunglasses. Go to mvmt.com slash watch, join the movement. All right, Andy, we've hosed you down. I'm still upset about culture. I'm going to put another quarter in the machine, get you an extra life.

And we're going to talk about episode two of trust. Yeah. Episodes called Lone Star. Probably my favorite episode of television in a very, very, very long time. Danny Boyle directing a Brendan Fraser Showpiece

showcase episode just about as engaging on so many different levels as virtuistic as stylish as you know I had been kind of feeling

like TV visually is stalling out a little bit that I thought we were going to have this new space where you know the supremacy of the writer might be challenged a little bit

in television, but the television not only could be a place where you're telling stories that don't often have homes in the movie, a home in the big screen anymore, but also tell them in interesting ways and tell them visually in interesting ways. And I think that the peak of that for me was the first season of Nick, the first season of girlfriend experience, this idea that you could make things like sort of fast, cheap and out of control on television now, the way you might have been able to in independent cinema over the last 20, 30 years. That kind of stalled out a little bit. I started to think that everything was looking the same, that there was not a decided difference

between the way Mind Hunter and dark and, I don't know, take your pick show looked. And God damn, this show looks incredible. Like, if you don't feel like you were in a Rome apartment in the early 70s with no air conditioner, and a lot of cocaine, a bowl of oranges, I don't know what to tell you.

The little wipes and all the little split screens, these omages to the Italian job and the 60s swing in cinema that they're coming out of. And the level of energy that this episode has compares to the first one, with the direct-to-camera monologues, with knowing exactly where the funny beats are supposed to happen. And the fact is I think that when Frazier and Swank come in, I think this show jumps up a level. And I just thought I was blown away by it.

I will say my only critique of it is it feels long. long A. F. Like, it really, really, really, really, really felt like 59 minutes. But I don't care. It could have been 175 minutes. I was really, really into it. Chris, it's been a bad year for TV. It's been a week year. It's been a mediocre year. And I think that I was very measured last week when we talked about the first episode. Yeah, you were like, I'm in and out. Yeah. There were many red flags, the fact that this story had just been told in the movies, that there were nine more episodes, which shocked me. That is the 10 episode thing, that they were already going to be planned to do more seasons. And that, that lingering sense of, you know, do we

really want to spend this much time trapped in this big mansion? Do we want to spend time with these sort of rich assholes? What I, and I'm mad at myself for this, what I did not give enough credence to was one simple thing, which was that I really enjoyed watching that first hour. I just enjoyed it. And for whatever reason, I thought myself out of my true feelings. And then I watched the second episode, which is certainly better. But as I texted you, it caused me to want to throw open my windows and adopt my strongest grieving dad in Heather's voice and just shout how I love trust. I love trust. I love trust. I loved it.

God, this made me happy watching this episode. Danny Boyle can really direct, it turns out. Yeah. This had that train spotting shallow grave energy. It was thrilling to watch because it was fun. Now, the subject matter isn't that fun. But there is a level of remove from the subject matter that maybe Boyle and Simon Beaufort are attempting to make a show

that's about something larger than the specifics of one kidnapping, which potentially could support 10 episodes and maybe even four seasons or whatever it is they're talking about. But there is a meta-commentary going on at the same time as the action, which I appreciate. And that was evidenced by Brendan Fraser downing a bottle of fresh, creamy cow milk and talking about what a bummer of a year, 1973, was or is because he's living in it. you cannot help but smile when you see George of the Jungle swaggering around Rome wearing a bolotie shirt buttoned up to his neck, giant hat, quoting scripture. This show knows what it is, and so far it knows what it isn't. And what it is is great fun, great entertainment with terrific production values.

And obviously that trickles down from the director, who knows what he's doing and has great talent. But also, I give a lot of credit to the network for so far. far anyway, understanding the project and funding it appropriately. I mean, what a terrific rogues gallery of Italian character actors. Well, it's not even that, too. It's Rome itself. And I don't know how they did it. I don't know how they cleared out those set locations.

I don't know, how they made it feel vintage without feeling fake vintage. Like it was being, they used like an Instagram prism or like a filter or something. But, you know, we used to go to the movies to feel. like we were being immersed in these worlds. And more often than not, I think that those were corresponded to like war dramas and you have to go to the 40s or, you know, the, you know, you think about something like,

last the Mohicans, where you just truly feel like I'm there. Wow, they're really using flints. More often than not, I find the 70s stuff to be a little bit harder to pull off because it feels like everything is normal except for the wigs. But there's something about all the shots

of Brendan Fraser just walking through this city and trying to find this kid. And the way, way in which they're just like, we're just going to give you a lot of information in these different screens and do all these little shots of Rome that make you feel like you're there. And we're going to kind of get rid of all the historical context stuff immediately by doing this monologue. And you're going to know the world in which is what's happening here is where there's just a lot of not a lot of faith in institutions globally. There's not a lot of faith in the American presidency. There's not a lot of

faith in the Italian police department. There's not even a lot of faith that the mafia knows who's being kidnapped. All these institutions are crumbling. And this cowboy comes walking in. Yeah. Fallen apart as well. Exactly. And it is a weird mini spaghetti Western this episode. And I just, I found myself so enthralled by it. I think one of the things after seeing Swank and Frazier in episode two is realizing how much Sutherland did in one. Yeah. Because I found the

Getty kids to be kind of drips. I think they're supposed to be. but when you get real star power on the screen, you're just kind of like, when Hillary Swank is driving to that song that was also in Fargo, what's that? Like the Adrian and Colin Minisso or whatever, that Italian funk song she's listening to. I was just like, yeah.

What's up? Let's go camping. Where you been for three years, Hillary? Like put her in something with a large phone. You know what I mean? Like a novelty, like I'm in an art gallery, like giant prop phone from the 70s. Very funny show too.

Lane, good lines from Lane where he's just like, this is what I was going to say. People on benders don't send ransom notes and he's like, I didn't think of that, you know? We've taught, when we talk about the crime novels we love, like James Crumley or whomever who we're reading now in the Double Down Book Club, Last Good Kiss.

I hope people are up on it. We're going to get to it soon. We often say that books, these books are capable of transporting us in a way that transcends details. When I'm rereading Last Good Kiss, I'm like, oh, I remember, oh, that's how that worked. I don't remember the plot. I remember the vibe, man.

and I remember how entertaining and thrilling it was. I don't know if you can do that for 10 episodes of a television show, but so far it's working because it doesn't matter that we've never met Lane before, but they included him. And they included him for a reason. The actor is great. The look is great. The dynamic is immediately understood and used appropriately, and it's a trip.

Same thing with what's your name, the head of the harem dive bombing. Penelope. Penelope. Penelope. It's my favorite number of the heiram, by the way. Heron power rankings? I'm going Penelope number one. Who's the kind of sassy one with the accent?

Well, there's the younger Italian girl. There's the middle English woman, and then there's the older English woman. I like New Blood. I think she's hilarious. But the dive bombing in a World War II plane, I mean... And being like next time can we have real ammo?

This is great. This is really entertaining stuff. I think people should be up on it. I praised FX a moment ago, and I know some people from FX listened to our podcast. So I want to say one thing. I want to ding them for one thing. Bring back terriers?

Yeah. Now is the time. me to clear out and let my opinion be known on that subject. They messed up the marketing. The poster that is, I imagine, up on subways in New York City and it's up on billboards here in Los Angeles. The Greek. It's like... Statue thing? Paul, the young kidnap victim, Paul, like with a sort of artistic smear of his face and it says trust, you know, nah. That's not this show, man. And I don't know what that's communicating. Now, it's hard to distill this... They should have done like a French connection poster.

Exactly. They should have, I think that the spirit of the show is not as high-minded as that poster suggests. Maybe they thought that they needed to do something different because we would be gettied out after the global smash that was all the money in the world. That didn't happen. I wish that they had marketed this show the way, you know, the mystery press published Ross Thomas paperbacks, you know, with like images of Italy and of speedboats and someone with a hood on their head. Like, let's get it. people on board here because this is fun. And I did not expect to be recommending trust as a show that we were going to continue watching. In fact, we hadn't watched the Brendan Fraser episode. Well, one of the things is that it's basically the same poster as the Versacee poster. Yes, it's very confusing. It's a great point. Not that, I mean, in 2018, how many people are like, did you see the poster? I think that actually matters. I think you're probably right. I think that matters. And let me say, the Legion Season 2 poster is also a guy's head sort of twist it a little bit. It's hard, I think, to sell things in a poster. And often we bemoaned the fact

that TV is where movies were 10 years ago with the, you have to sell it on the poster. But guys, you got to sell it on the poster. What would you do? Would you, if I could offer you right now, put on these glasses and go into an oasis that is 1973 Rome, would you be down? 1,000 percent. I would be slurping that spaghetti. And I mean that at all senses. I think I would have a problem with the lack of central air. You know what you wouldn't have had a problem with? Everyone speaks English fluently. Yes. No matter where you go, it's incredible.

Speaking of FX, let's hit Atlanta, which we haven't talked about in a couple of weeks. And I know some folks on our Facebook group. If you haven't joined the Facebook group, it's just quite a thrilling little water cooler. Very sweet. Facebook.com, I think slash the watchpod.

Just go ahead and request access to that. This show is still undefeated. This show is still throwing punches that no one can see coming. This show is definitely broken. itself down into slightly more of an anecdotes short story structure that all sort of come back around to a theme

into a theme of wanting and needing and having and not having do you care that there is not an overarching story that we're following? One million percent no. I mean, I love... I'm not concerned trolling Atlanta. It's basically the best thing that's on TV.

I'm just asking. The anecdotal story. storytelling. I love the assumed power that it has now with our knowledge of these characters and their circumstance and it just drills deeper and deeper and deeper into them. We can't bemoan the reality of clock watching on contemporary TV as we do when we press play on a Netflix pilot or even an episode of trust and you see it colors your opinion of the show now. You see 58 minutes. That changes how I watch things. Or conversely, 21 minutes, I'm in a great mood. There was one of the great pleasures of this episode, which was

involved Alfred Paperboy trying to get his haircut by a rap scallion, I'll say. Bibs. Bibby. Check out the recapables. I actually went on that last week with Amanda and Justin to talk about this episode. Yeah.

To realize, part of the episode for me was looking at the clock, 15 minutes into the episode and realizing, oh, they're going to try and do this. Oh, this is going to be the episode? Yes. Are they going the throwback to the way the first season had a couple episodes like that. But not, right, but in those, it was like, oh, this whole thing is going to be this roundtable

conversation. This is, are they going to keep this going? They're going to keep stringing this along to a degree where it's almost painful for the viewer, but stick the landing. They may have figured out the guest star on television. I mean, they may have figured out the idea that I always used to hate when unjustified, it would be very obvious that someone was just doing a three-episode run because I felt like it unnecessarily constrained. the possibilities of their story. And even if they were to become a recurring star, like that there was always a feel like,

oh, Raylan's going to have a relationship of this person for three episodes. And you can take justified out and put in any show that you like, Grey's Anatomy, or any of these shows. Atlanta's use of guest stars from Cat Williams to Robert Powell this last episode. The guy Robert Powell was great.

Has been kind of revolutionary because I think Robert Powell may be second now this entire season in screen time. Yeah. Or third. He certainly has 10 times the number of lines that Brian Tyree Henry, who I think is the best actor currently on television, has in this episode. Right.

Right. So what they're doing on a week-to-week basis continues to be completely unparalleled. I have no complaints about it. It's so funny. I mean, they stole the lumber. You know what I mean? They're just these things. The Zaxby's part is just incredible.

And let's also say that what it actually is saying about fame and celebrity and power. and race in a million subtle and interesting and specific ways is so difficult to do. The degree of difficulty is incredible. To communicate the importance of a barber who can cut your hair the right way in that episode that is sensibly about everything else but getting his haircut, but giving us that sense at the end that you know he's going to come crawling back for one simple reason, whether it's, self-respect or it's vanity or it's none of those things. I don't know.

That was a remarkable twist at the end. So also shout to Stephanie Robinson, who's on the writing staff, who wrote this episode. Every, I mean, within every raindrop in the Atlanta universe, there's another universe. Yeah. And that's what elevates it beyond anything else on TV. They're making this look easy. Yeah. It's so not easy.

It's amazing. And remember at the beginning of the season, not our concern, but a note we made was responding to Donald Glover's quote or everyone's quotes, basically, about how, oh, they kind of stumbled into a more. conventional storytelling this year. No, they have. Yeah. Maybe there hasn't been an invisible car, but as we were reminded, there's still an invisible car in this world.

There is no invisible car in the terror. Okay. There is some sort of force out there, some sort of evil. Pitch me on this. I hadn't not really known. I didn't really, wasn't checking for this show.

I should have been because... Headline, like tell people what the show is because I don't even understand. This is an AMC Limited series. I believe it's a limited series at least. Actually, it might not be. It might be? Might it be?

I mean, the name like that. It's based on the novel by Dan Simmons. It comes from David Kachanich and Sue Hugh, who I've actually, was a lovely person. Full disclosure. But I did not know what to expect from this because I couldn't tell. Is this like a historical drama?

It's about set in the 1840s, and it's about the British Discovery Service, sort of their expeditionary... Do they discover Tom Hardy's accent and taboo? Is that what it's about? A prequel? And they are going, it's basically these two ships

that are seeking the Northwest Passage. And they're out in Antarctica and they, the three captains, or there are two captains played by Kieran Hines and Jared Harris.

And then Kieran Hines is second in command of Tobias Menzies. I would love to know if there is an IMDB app in which to see if those three have ever been together because it seems like they should have been. I feel like Kieran Hines

and Tobias Menzies could play father and son and switch the roles like people in True West. They are dynamite. And so there are these two ships. It's the end of summer, I guess, in Antarctica. And they get frozen in. They get their ships that are trying to cut across the ice get frozen in.

And so they're stuck there for a while. And they seem to be getting along okay, relatively speaking. But in the second episode, they start sending out search parties and stuff starts going wrong on both a practical level and a there's something out there level.

And it's the mix of the realism of imagine how isolating and insane it must feel to be stuck with 50 or 60 other men out in the middle of nowhere like this. And what if you were the first people out there? How sure would you be

about what is and isn't out there? And it's 1844. five, so we're still dealing with what we do and don't understand about the world. And not that we're not now. Yeah. It is so well written. You're really selling me on this. The dialogue, it is, I would say this.

It's actually, it really gives no quarter. There is not a lot of exposition. There is not a lot of like, hey, let me explain this to you. It is a lot of like tech talk about 19th century boats and serving in the Discovery Service. And it's really, really, really good. Let me ask you this. If I, I'm going to use I, I'm not going to make a hypothetical straw man here. I don't like horror movies, but I do love Master and Commander, the Far Side of the World.

I would say it is a... Which part of my brain is going to win out here. I say it's 75 M&C, 25 horror. I can probably handle that. It's just, dude, it's cold. It's dark. Yeah. There are some bears out there.

Okay. You scared of bears? I mean, bears like in nightclubs or like bears in the woods? Because no In a little bit I'd just be like Your Dattington Hive Maybe you know

I know the bears Do these bears have Marmalade Sandwiches under their hats Is it the ghost of Uncle Pastuso? If you consider dudes heads As marmalade sandwiches Yeah

I'll give it a shot I really really highly recommend it So we wanted to throw that out there Before we end today I think we should also pay tribute to one of the giants of TV Who passed away over the weekend Stephen Botchko

For sure I think it is You know much like people might not remember the Atari 2600 or Buccaru Banzai, people might not remember Stephen Bocchco as well as they should. A total giant, and one of the first giants of that level in the business, Stephen Bocchco created or co-created Hill Street Blues, L.A. Law, coprock, doogiehouser. He, in many ways, you could have, I think for a long time you could have made the argument that his time had passed, that maybe he wasn't as influential as he had been in

the 80s and 90s when he almost single-handedly redefined NYPD Blue, single-handedly redefined what was possible in an hour-long broadcast network show. Yeah. And including putting on people who would define the next decade like David Kelly and David Milch. But I think it's worth remembering him not just with a sort of rosy, backwards-looking salute. But what he did was so difficult and I think very important

and instructive for TV today because before Hill Street Blues shows were really one thing or the other but Hill Street Blues was both incredibly dramatic it was exciting, it was emotional but it was also super funny and it could be many different things all at once and he trusted the audience

which was a huge audience back then not specialized, not we know what we're getting in our 21 minute straight to series Amazon anthology series. He trusted the audience to be able to roll with changes and different speed pitches, almost the way we have to do in real life. And I actually think that the downside of contemporary TV

is that people only pulled one thing from that, which is, oh, we can be a tourist. We can, I can make this absurdist or funny. But he also, because of the circumstances he was in, never, never unyoked himself from the plot machine. You understand what I'm saying? Yeah, of course. And I think that TV these days may have gone too far

in the autourist direction, and we've kind of forgotten about, we still need to have something happen to get us to the next episode. You do. I mean, you don't always, like the Young Pope or Twin Peaks, but for the most part,

if you want people watching week to week, keep us going, man. Give us an engine. And he was a giant of that. The week to week stuff is the thing that I'm in awe of. Doing 20-plus episodes of LA Law. So many episodes. With 12 major characters

pairing up with various A, B, and C plots over the course of 42 minutes on NBC, and it's not like you can fail in private, man, because like 15, 20, 25, 30 million people are watching your show because there's nine shows on a week. I mean, Josh Radner, actually, the star of how I met your mother and Rise on NBC. Had a couple of tweets last night I saw pointing out a couple of episodes

from L.A. Law where he was like, this was incredible. Like, there's stuff, I mean, L.A. Law got goofy. L.A. Law was, like, weird and, like, and the suits. Inconsistent or whatever. But there's moments in L.A. law, And there's especially moments in those first few seasons of NYPD Blue that are pretty elite and could go, you could put them on AMC tomorrow and you'd be like, cool show. Not just cool show.

I would rather watch some of that, honestly. Well, that week to week thing, I think it was just a different, it was a different muscle. You know, and you could, the shows could, it was like, it was more like baseball. It was more like, eh, they had like a tough, a tough road trip, but they got it back together in July. Baseball where Gabe Kapler's not managed. Right, exactly. This was more like a show would have like a weird three or four episode run. And you'd move on. And they'd, and then they would forget about it. Exactly. And that can't happen. We're like astonished that episode two of trust is good.

Yeah. You know, try episode 19 of LA Law season two. Yeah. You know, like that's real accomplishment. I completely agree. I think that, you know, now each strand that made a show like that good would be strip mine taken out and made it to its own show. Sure. The challenge was to make them all one show. and to have so many people watch it. Obviously, the culture has changed, the medium has changed, but I think chasing that is still a noble goal. Last bit about Stephen Botchko, when I was working with Noah Hawley a year ago or two years ago, was working at- On your secret LA law reboot that never happened?

Oh, my God. Yeah, well, I was sort of relocating it, you know, just a little bit south. It was San Diego law. Yeah, it was mostly. I can't believe that didn't make it to air. Mostly about wakeboarding. But also doc review. So, you know, it was a little bit of both.

It was like Baywatch meets better call Saul. I was working out this place called Lantana. People, it's out in Santa Monica, and it's a bunch of office buildings where they have writers rooms and some people have their, people who have overall deals, have their offices there. And the front parking, like I had to park like, you know, in the back garage on the sub, sub, sub, sub, sub cellar, but the front, like in front of the buildings, that's where the people who have their names on the little parking things.

Yeah. Signs. They've signs. That's what I'm saying. And you go down, there's Noah has his name. name there, of course, and his producing partner, John Cameron, and your man, Alejandro and Yari, too, was posting the revenant there at the time for, like, year five of posting the road.

Sure. He's there. Affleck was working there for a while. Nice. And then you get to Bocchco, who, I don't know if he had a show in the air. He probably was always working on something. What did he drive? Stephen Bocke.

That's not the point. It's not what he drove. It's how he drove it. Stephen Botchco had one parking space, and then next to it was another parking space marked Stephen Bocchko. Nice. And you know how you knew he was there? He parked diagonally across both of them.

Respect the true kings. Wow. Respect. Rest and power, my guy. True kings. That's all I'm going to say. That's it for the watch. We'll be back on Thursday.

I don't know what we're talking about. We got a special interview on Thursday. Alexis Fogle. Alexa Fogle. Casting genius behind the wire, behind Atlanta, behind Ozark. That's right. Joining us to talk about the mystery, the magic of casting. I'm excited about that. We'll be back on Thursday with a couple of news and notes and some Alexis and

this interview with Alexa Fogle, until then. Great job, Bransky. Buckaroo Baranski, a classic film from the early 80s. Hey, guys, I get a lot of comments on my looks, like when I'm wearing a ringer dad hat or a pretty dope ringer hooded sweatshirt. You want to be me? Just go to the ringer.com slash shop.

Because all that gear... This is an aggressive read. Well, that was supposed to be a callback to the assassination of Jesse James, and I think it just came off like I sound like a maniac. Fine. I'm fine both ways. Either way, whichever one you want to choose, incredible amounts of ringer swag and merch are available at theringer.com slash shop.

Stuff is limited. You know, these are limited edition runs. Stuff goes away. Yeah, it's kind of like Supreme, but different. Got it. Gotcha. Theringer.com slash shop. You nailed it.