The Watch - The Trouble With 'Bond 25,' Getting Hyped for 'Top Gun 2,' Plus Mailbag | The Watch (Ep. 284)

Episode Date: August 24, 2018

The Ringer’s Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald discuss the production woes of the latest James Bond and share their excitement about the upcoming sequel to ‘Top Gun’ (4:00). Later they open the mailbag and answer listener questions ranging from why talk shows on Netflix aren’t working to what plays they’d like to see adapted to the big screen (21:30). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Get the Hotel Tonight app now and start scoring amazing. deals at incredible hotels. That's Hotel Tonight, the only booking app that you need. I need sports to have to clear the room. Stand up and walk now. Hello, and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I'm an editor at theregor.com.

And joining me on the other line, his definition of peak TV is Aaron Nola. It's Andy Greenwald. Yo, that is must watch. That is must watch. I was prepared to just laugh it up with you, but you want to talk about it. Orr-Rill Field needs to dial that up. We should talk about the Phillies one true ace, but this might not be the podcast for it. I don't remember anymore.

It probably isn't. Grimwald, we've got you today. We've got you Monday, and then you disappear off the pilot land, and we'll have a series of co-hosts joining us over the next couple of weeks. But you'll be back, obviously. I still think I'd like to maybe send you some voice memos from beyond. I would love that. And then also, I think, you know, I don't know how this was. received when I ran it up the flagpole. But I thought a bewitched situation where you just

replace me and call me Andy and just see how it goes would be fine. Call me by your Andy? Like the ants on Fresh Prince of Bel Air, you know, there was just another one one day and everyone was calling her by the same name and everybody moved on. By that same token, couldn't you just replace me with Rosario Dawson? No. Contractually, she's not allowed to do that. That's not been discussed ever. Okay. Today we are going to talk a little bit about this stuff happening with the James Bond franchise, which I kind of find fascinating because I find that every three months you and I have the exact same conversation, but it's just about a different movie.

And I also want to talk a little bit about a film coming at next summer that I'm really excited about. And we'll just discuss quickly the third episode of season four of Better Call Saul. And then we got some mailbox questions. So fun little Thursday pod, let's get right into it. Andy. any, and do you want to just get any opening notes you want to? Oh, I've been asking Andy this. And, you know, I don't find this very funny, but I, you know, it's not like I find it very funny. But their crimes are not funny. But I just want to say, Andy, do you think you're a Manafort or a Cohen? Look, I'm so flattered that you're even asking this question in a public or private forum because there's some things that I think are just obvious. Like when I got to Albuquerque, someone else on the, on the team here was like, there's a great rock.

climbing gym, you want to go this weekend. And I was like, mostly just flattered. Like, you think I would climb rocks? Like, that's, that's not the vibe I usually give off. So I'm pretty, you know, obviously, even religious implications aside, obviously I'm pure Cohen. You seem just like the kind of guy who has a taxi medallion. Listen, it's not just that. I just feel that were I squeezed in an uncomfortable legal way. You're a flipping motherfucker, aren't you? Yo, have you, like, just for real, like, do you know when you take, like, a beautiful, fresh trout out of the river and you put it down on, like, some sort of wooden, I don't know, whether it's like, like, some sort of dock or maybe your boat? What does the trout do? Like, it jumps, isn't it jump up in the air? Or is that salmon? It flips around a lot, my man. And I'm just saying, that's my go-to move. That would be within, they wouldn't even have the cuffs on me. And I would start saying your name. Yeah, the attorney general.

for the Southern District of New York would come into a room with you and he would be like in the process of opening his mouth to offer you a glass of water you'd be like, what do you want to know? What can I tell you? I hear the opening bum bum from law and order

and I just start shouting out wild shit like just secrets people told me. Like you should not trust me. Now, you on the other hand, what are you? I'm a Cohen. I'm a Cohen. I'm a Coyne. Right. Yeah.

I'm a city guy. You know how to be flexible in certain situations. And when I say a city guy, I don't mean Kiev. political humor today let's go before we get before we get shut down I want to talk a little bit about this

James Bond thing because this is a movie that got shut down today not technically I think that they're still rolling with pre-production but as people may have noticed if they read the trades today

Danny Boyle has left Bond 25 as it is known and by all accounts it was a statement released by Barbara Broccoli and Michael G. Wilson the producers and crucially Daniel Craig also had his name in this statement,

which was that we've decided to part ways with Danny Boyle over creative differences. And of course, in the next couple of days, there was a lot of speculation about why this happened and what the case could be. I'll give you a little context. A little while back, Daniel Craig agrees to come back to Dubond for a rumored, I think, $25 million paycheck.

After doing the very successful Casino Royale, Quantum Solis, Skyfall, and Spector, although I would say Spector's probably the worst of those. And he and the producers apparently really wanted to get a fresh voice involved in the franchise, and they targeted Danny Boyle, and they went after him, and by all accounts, had said to him like, what's it going to take to get you to do this? And he was like, well, I've got to finish this TV show I'm working on. They're like, no problem.

And then he was like, I'd like to write the script with John Hodge, with whom I've collaborated many times, train spotting, many other films. Fine, great, incredible, awesome. and they did the script. They're three months away from shooting. They had shelved another script by Robert Wade and Neil Purvis, who have written the last, I think, six Bond movies

to do this Danny Boyle John Hodge script. They're ready to rock, and they part ways. And what is basically a groundhog day of these other franchises, whether it's solo, whether it's some of these other Star Wars movies, a bunch of these situations, Colin Trevor on Star Wars, where you kind of get down the line a little bit in the courtship process.

And then the very thing that you wanted, which was a unique perspective, is the thing that turns you off. And now there's stuff coming out that Danny Boyle and Daniel Craig may have disagreed on the casting of the villain in the movie. And apparently Danny Boyle wanted to cast this guy, Tomash Kat, who is a, I believe, a Czech actor or possibly Polish. But he's in this movie Cold War that's coming out soon.

And he's Polish. and he's apparently remarkable in this film that's coming out, but it's not very well known, and I have no idea whether or not Daniel Craig didn't think he was big enough or didn't like the actor or whatever. And then there's also this stuff that in the script, apparently this was like updating Bond for the Me Too era and had like Russian hacking involved,

and it was very contemporary. And it turns out that the James Bond franchise, surprise, surprise is a little bit more conservative than we thought. Danny Boyle was such a man of word. Oh my God. Look, this is, you've nailed it. I mean, everybody says they want to be new and edgy and reinvent things, but they don't really. You know, you can't even, you can't do that on the fly. You can't simultaneously be conservative and stodgy and comfortable and also change. That just doesn't ever work. It's a recipe for disaster. And the deeper thing, here. And now I know this. I know that people who are much more bond obsessive than I am know that the Broccoli family and Wilson, like, they control this very tightly. Obviously, this is their life's work at this point. It's not like they're going to just call up Kevin Feigey and ask him to

take over or Kathleen Kennedy or do what some of these other, you know, we're not in a George Lucas letting someone else, you know, for a billion dollars take over his life's work situation here. This is what they do. And they're not going to let go. And of course, they're very, as people who have become very successful and have been doing something for a long time, they're very mindful and careful about the choices they make. But I don't understand why they're making this movie. I don't. I mean, Daniel Craig has had his time. He seemed very eager to leave, but 25 million reasons why he didn't leave, why he shouldn't leave later. He's still there. Wasn't it just a week ago when Idris Elbow was flirting with the internet pretending he was going to be the next James Bond? It's like, put up or shut up, you know, like let's either try this again and try some something.

new or let's not. And I don't even say this as someone who thinks Danny Boyle should be spending his time making a Bond movie. But if he were to be spending his time making a Bond movie, I would much rather be about updating Bond yet again and casting an interesting young actor and having Idris Elba play the main role. You just can't split the difference and make both movies at the same time as everyone's learning. Look, the last Bond movie, which was not very warmly regarded, still... It was terrible. It made $880 million around the world. Okay. What do I know? So this is going to keep happening because these franchises are talking about profit margins so large,

upwards of a billion dollars, upwards of however many hundreds of millions of dollars that they're talking about, that they may win the day with a conversation about wouldn't it be cool if the director of a life less ordinary directed a Bond movie? But at the end of that day, they got to get somebody who's going to make the exact same thing that they are so well known for. And I think that more and more, I would encourage, I mean, not that anybody gives you shit what I think, but I would encourage people to look at Mission Impossible Fallout as like the best of both worlds, where it's like you have somebody like Macquarie

who plays within the formal limitations of that series and works with this star in a very harmonious way and figures out the best way to use that star and still finds ways to express himself. And I think that that would have been the ideal here for Bond. But Bond is not like, let's have a wildly new take on Bond. I think that that is something that you and I want and maybe something that some other people out there who are like longtime Bond watchers but would be up for something kind of zany want.

But for the most part, people just like, this is going to be one of like six movies they see in a year. And they don't really want it to be like a jittery digitally shot movie that's a treatise on me too. And I think that sucks because I think that would be a. amazing to see, but that's the reality, right? Yeah, I think that's right. And I think it's worth, I think the Macquarie point is the really good one here.

A couple of years ago when we were talking about the success of the Marvel movies in particular, we were pointing to how the Russo brothers were, you know, to some when they were named the directors of Winter Soldier, they seemed like a left field choice. But actually, they were brilliant. There was a brilliant decision because these guys worked within the confines of television, which was a better fit for the way Marvel makes movies than a tourist filmmakers would ever be. I think it's worth updating that conversation now

to consider how Macquarie works. And I probably said this before. I'll say it again. His interview on Sean Fantasy's podcast, The Big Picture, is just incredible. I wish it was three times as long. I love listening to them talk. And particularly, I loved hearing how Macquarie approaches things.

And I have to say it is from the place of a working writer, which is to say that when he sees a set of circumstances, It's problem solving. And it's not even that he looks at them like problems anymore. So with Mission Impossible, it's what do we, how do we top the last one? How do we service Tom Cruise having final cut and wanting to basically come close to suicide every movie in terms of special effects? How do we make the same thing again but new? And he doesn't think of it with a negative attitude of this is a problem. He thinks of it as an opportunity. And, you know, you hire Danny Boyle, who is an Academy Award honored director who's been making movies.

for years, and when he's brought onto a project, you're buying the Danny Boyle vision and experience, which, as you should, he's not looking to solve someone else's problems. He's looking to blaze his own trails. And the McCoy example, I don't know how many other people are out there like that. And obviously, he's blessed by being a decent director himself, certainly, but also aided by the very best in assistant directors and storyboard artists and blah, blah, blah. But that, if the franchise, if franchise filmmaking is television now, just in the terms of of the production, if not the overhead costs, it's going to have to start acting more like it.

And I guess it's a tougher lesson for some franchises to learn like Star Wars, like Bond. So if James Bond 25 has kind of taken a hit in the movie stock market over the last week or two, one movie that is just an absolute rocket ship

is Top Gun 2, which is not something that I needed in my life. You often say, like, well, do we need this movie? do we need this movie. I wasn't like, I really want to know what the update is on Pete Mitchell

and what's going on for these guys. I need to return to Miramar. And then they cast Miles Teller and Glenn Powell as the new generation of pilots. And I was like, you have my attention.

And then they padded out with the Bruckheimer supporting actor All-Stars, namely, Ed Harris, and John Hamm. but yo along with Jennifer Connolly and Val Kilmer who's reprising his role as Iceman let's also give a shout out to the god Lawrence from insecure

Jay Ellis who's going to be in the trainee class and Bashir Sal Hudden who I think is just fantastic on glow like this is a legit cast this is a legit exciting cast and Thomas and McKenzie who's in that movie who's in the Deborah Granick movie that was just leave no trace so it's like they actually weirdly just

have this incredible all-star team for this movie that seems sort of silly. It seems silly, but, you know, here's the thing. Again, the whiplash we've all felt culturally about Tom Cruise is worth noting, like considering, you know, post-couch jumping where he was and the way people were talking about him, and then this sort of new version that has emerged. And by the way, I think there's only ever been one version, but the version that's been promoted by the success of the Top Gun, sorry, of the Mission Impossible movies, and even as referenced in the Macquarie interview that I was just talking about is, look, this guy just wants to please us. He just wants to entertain us. And he does have a sense of how to do that clearly

better than most filmmakers. And if he really felt that this was the movie to make and this was the script that captured it, I'm kind of inclined to believe him. Because while he does need franchises that make sense for him, he has Mission Impossible. You know, he has other options. and he must think this is a good one, and I'm kind of suddenly more optimistic about it. It seems like they're putting it together in a sense. I can believe I'm saying, this is a $200 million sequel to a 30-year-old movie,

but it seems sort of sensible. About Navy fighter pilots, yeah, for sure. Because it also seems to have a sense of fun and seems to understand, like, this isn't the same, this isn't, here's what I'm going to say about it. It doesn't seem like necessarily a sequel to the actual movie Top Gun. It seems like a sequel to Quentin Tarantino, knows monologue about Top Gun.

Yeah, I know. From, what was that, Destiny Turns on the radio or whatever movie he was in in the 90s? Like, it's a sequel to the way we talk about Top Gun, which, sure, let's do it. Why not? I also just want to point out that I do not feel like Tom Cruise has actually been challenged in a movie

other than Vanessa Kirby in Fallout briefly for like two scenes. He has not been consistently challenged in a movie by another actor since Edge of Tomorrow. So I'm excited to see him sharing the screen with two guys who are obviously trying to become movie stars. Miles Teller arguably is one,

but has had some ups and downs and Glenn Powell, who is clearly on like a pretty skyrocketing trajectory. And then all these other folks who were in the movie too as well, and also like John Hamm and Ed Harris are not going to take plays off probably. So I'm really curious to see Tom Cruise in like some scenes, you know, and doing some, even if it's about fighter pilots, I want to see him up against a ham or a Harris.

Look, I mean, because look, it's about fighter pilots and like Glenn Gary, Glenn Ross is about real estate. Like, everything's about something. I completely agree with you. Like, let's, let's see him get pushed around and challenged a little bit. I think it was noteworthy to say. And obviously, we're putting a lot into just some like casting announcements and a post teaser poster. Welcome to late August. Exactly. But I do think it says a lot that that this is a guy who at any time he has been, not just challenged in performance, but basically been put set up in a position in a movement. where he's going to be supplanted in the movie, and we often talk about Jeremy Renner's completely bizarre spun-around role in Ghost Protocol. Whenever that's happened, Cruz has just been threatened like an alpha and bested his opponent. This movie is about him passing the torch to some degree, right?

To the Miles Teller character. And we all knew that going in. He knew that going in. He was part of the casting process. The great history of Tom Cruise passing the torch. But, yo, then they doubled down and cast Glenn Powell, who was the runner up to Miles teller in an unknown part. So whether they boosted a part that was already in there

or just added a part to the script, now it's two to one, if not three to one, with J Ellis and those other dudes in there. We'll see, right? Yeah, absolutely. It'll be interesting to see how many response. All right. Before we break, do you want to have a couple of,

any words about the most recent episode of Saul? Just that it's, you know, I truly enjoying this show. And I think that was the takeaway from anyone who heard us wax about it on. on Monday. I think that we picked a fun day to talk about how crucial Michael Mando is to the show

considering what the show put him through. My only other feeling about it is it's not even a feeling. It's just like it does feel like we're getting to the part of the set list where they're going to start playing the hits. Yeah, this is not hard for them. When they tell...

When the guy tells Gus, you need to find a local supplier, I was like, wait a second. Like, we would have had a little bit more of a heads up, right? and obviously it wound up being another character from Breaking Bad. I really want to spoil it, but I thought that the opening sequence of this episode

was the calling card for this show. Like if somebody was like, why should I watch Better Call Saul? I would say, like, check out these guys making a forensic, you know, setting up a crime scene and basically making Nacho take two, bullets to sell the falsehood. Yeah. And sprinkling the car glass and lighting up that car with bullets and everything. I just thought that was like so precise, even down to the granular shots of the pavement of the highway. I just thought, man, these guys just know this world

down to like the micro-microscopic level. When I came around on Ozark, which is immortalized in a, I don't know if it's famous, but it's certainly well-liked by us clip that's floating around on the YouTube. One of the reasons that I was sucked back into or sucked into it is that just the breathtaking pace of the pilot, which, you know, as we said at the time, feels like three or four seasons of Breaking Bad in 25 minutes. And I love the baldiness of that. And I love the exhilaration of that. But look, there is still something to be said for showing your work and going step by step and the pleasure that the filmmakers take in articulating that for us. And just the thought that goes into every step, as you said, it's, it is the rare show where it is very, very fun to watch

the sausage being made, as opposed to Ozark, I guess, in this analogy, which is just pure Chicago sausage. That's right. All right. Let's take a quick break to hear from our sponsors and we'll come back and answer some of your questions in a mailbag. Over the last few weeks, I've gone in and out of love with my beer. A lot of my co-workers have commented on it. Keith Fujimoto was sitting here with me. He was like, you've got to grow it. Zach Mack was like, you got to grow it.

But it just gets too itchy in LA in August. I just can't, I can't hack it. So when that happens, I hack it off with my Gillette Mach 3. Gillette offers a variety of shaving products for every guy, regardless of his personal style, skin needs, or budget. You grow in a beard, you're losing your beard, you've got sensitive skin. You got skin like a leather horse saddle. doesn't matter.

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and find Gillette 5 at Gilletteondemand.com. Subscribe today. You've got mail. Okay, Andy, our listeners sent us some questions. That's so nice of them. I really appreciate

whenever we do these because it's actually like, sometimes Andy and I run out of ways to say the same thing and you guys ask us great questions. Don't, don't, don't admit it. Well, no, I mean, I don't mean like we, like, I just, you know, we're just like hitting some topics and then these guys are like talking about Wooten plan and I'm like, thanks for

asking. We can talk about that. TMB John, this is on Twitter. And this ties into our just discussion on the last show. We just talked about bringing Better Call Saul. Following your rediscovery of Better Call Saul, what other concepts for spinoffs of the Mount Rushmore of Peak TV? would you like to see?

Oh, yes. Well, I feel like we've answered this in various permutations, and I haven't really changed my thoughts. Maybe we could update a little bit. I mean, Coach and Tammy Living in Philly is still probably the one that we hold up the brightest candle for, right? The coach and Tammy living in Philly, post Friday Night Lights, is a huge one

because we're sort of picturing the most blissful family scenes between them mixed with the ATV run in Creed. And I feel like that that's just hits all of our pleasure zones. I still really like the idea of a Mad Men sequel set in the like downtown 81 Warhol Basquiat punk rock era of New York. But I have to say the Deuce, which is returning soon, set in 1977 in season two, is scratching a lot of that it for me.

I'm really enjoying watching it. I have a kind of one that I never would have thought of. just ties right into what TMB John is asking here about Saul. I would not have said this a year ago. And maybe it wouldn't have said this like three weeks ago before I really turned on the jets for Saul. I kind of want to know where Jesse went. You do.

Yeah. I was just thinking about like if these guys can take Saul and do this with it, what if we did like a road show with Jesse? Like, where's you driving to? What happened to him? Where's you going? That's interesting to me.

I guess... He has a similar trajectory to Saul, too, because he also is kind of always going to be looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life. Yeah, I guess for me, he's kind of the least interesting character at the end of it and the one most deserving of a punctuation mark. Because he was so tormented and kind of had the full attempt at redemption arc so many times. And then I was remembering what actually happened to him in the last season and how hard he fought to get out from Walt's thumb. And in fact, you know, pulling a full

Michael Cohen to Hank and, you know, and just getting punished again and again for it. That the degree to which he was punished, I mean, including, remember what Todd did to his girlfriend? I mean, it was brutal at the end when he was caged and cooking. And so the last look on his face is better, I think than anything else that could have come after it. But what about, I mean, I'm also trying to think what is, have we updated Mount Rushmore? Because obviously, like you look at the Sopranos, which is right up there. And the Sopranos, David Chase himself is making the prequel. He's making a film about Tony Sopranos' father in the old days.

We've talked about Breaking Bad. We've talked about Mad Men, talked about Fright Night Lights. Like, what else is out there in terms of shows that we consider to be that great from the last few years? I'm kind of blanking. Like the Rushmore is kind of set, and I don't know how much more I want of those specific shows. Well, also, we're in an era now where nothing ever, no one, nothing ever really dies, right?

So I obviously had a tremendous amount of affection for True Detective season one, which seemed like a one-off, and then they came back with that, and they're going to come back with that again. They're during a second up season of Big Little Lies. Like, a lot of the thing, a lot of the things that we think, oh, what's that? Deadwood is coming back now. Yeah, absolutely. So it's like, I think.

that that's sort of changed the calculus here because you're now, you're now in an era where if the money is right and the interest is there, Veronica Mars coming back again. I love Veronica Mars. I'm never going to say no to that show. But it's, I don't know if we really need spinoffs for shows when there's a constant mining of that content. Yeah, it's a good point. Although I would be curious if for listeners, if there's shows that we've talked about or that you've been passionate about that you feel that's just a story that's still to be told. Just be careful because someone might snap it up and make the show. Timmy Lynchikum wants to know what is, what current show is the T.J. McConnell of television.

Now, for non-Sixers fans, non-Philadelphia 76ers fans, T.J. McConnell is basically a cult hero who is the guy who probably didn't have like a real shot until he did. he's like a short white point guard who is 110% effort all the time and then it went from beyond this like cool Rudy story to him just being actually really good this is a really complicated question not because I'm looking for the short white point guard of television

but I'm looking for the show that you know you maybe had like a bit of affection for because you liked an actor on it or you liked maybe the concept was cool but like you're like, I'm not really going to watch this. And then against your better judgment, it became like, oh, this is like good. It's a little, I mean, this is a surprising candidate for the undersized white point guard of television. But because of our recent conversation about it, I'm drawn to saying insecure.

Only because not just for the cognitive dissidents that I put in the mind of everyone, but because that was a show that I think the ceiling got much more. bigger than I think. Certainly I expect it. You know, I enjoyed it when it debuted. I was impressed by it, but I didn't expect it to be able to go to the places that it's gone or reach the audience that it has. And it's scrappy and it's beloved.

I like it. That's a good answer. Mike J. Fox 58 wants to know, why do you think the talk show format isn't working for Netflix? Or the question, can OTTs ever be a place for weekly appointment viewing? And I'd like to bundle this question in the... this tradition of modern media parlance. And then Jared Foley on Twitter also asked, on the topic of Netflix binging versus weekly appointment viewing,

don't you think Hulu might have the best model, dropping two or three a week, hard to pick just one favorite and different shows lend to different models, but Hulu seems like the happy medium. So I think we've sort of touched on this before where it's like we really like the Hulu model. They probably just need slightly better shows. Yes.

But it's worth having like a quick kind of refresher conversation about Michelle Wolf's been canceled, Joel McKell's been canceled on Netflix. They're obviously not going to stop making these kinds of shows. Asa Manage has a show coming on Netflix in just a couple of months. But it's this complication of if you are not working from a position of leverage, whether it's like I'm doing SportsCenter,

so I can be Scott Van Pelt and try some stuff at late-night SportsCenter, but essentially people are going to turn me on when they get home from the bar to watch highlights, or you're the Tonight Show, or you're filling David Letterman's spot or your Kimmel, what are you, how do you make inroads? And you know, you and I are both fans of Deez-Is Mero who have moved to Showtime now,

but I think you and I are both fans of Deez-Zamero without actually watching Deas-Mero, we just watch it on Twitter. Exactly. Yeah. So, I don't know. Personally for me, I'm at a spot now where, like,

it would have to be a pretty, uh, extraordinary television show to get me to start making appointments to watch a talk show at night? Yeah, well, I also think, well, I think it's two questions. I mean, both changing tastes and changing expectations, which I think is what you just hit on. But also, it doesn't make sense to me on streamers.

It just, it doesn't make sense. I don't, when they signed Chelsea Handler, I was like, I don't get it. Because why would we go to watch something topical at a place that is defined by its complete unstuckness in time? You know, it's just those are two different business models. And, you know, I think it's a huge shame, especially with Michelle Wolf, who I think is really funny. But in a way, she was kind of throttled by being on Netflix.

I mean, there's two ways to look at it. Either Netflix, like pockets and exciting talent and pays her and lets her just go to work and they get the shine from having someone so talented working there. And then, you know, people can find the show or likely they might not. Or, you know, or she just shouldn't have been there. bottled up behind not just the subscription wall, but behind the expectation wall. I think that there are still things that make sense on linear television, that makes sense on live television. You know, just anecdotally, like I'm, as people know, in a hotel for quite some time. And I've been watching screeners or watching Netflix or Hulu or whatever it is on my laptop.

But sometimes at the end of a day in the office, I have been doing something I don't usually do at home, which is turning on the television set. And I remember, oh, they're kind of, you know, I don't mind watching a talk show or I don't mind watching. Obviously, I like watching sports, but I don't mind, you know what I used to like to watch? House Hunters International, man. And I don't watch it anymore because that is, for me, the ultimate, oh, look at that show. And that is a category of viewing for some people still, without, without a doubt. So there's like, the one thing I throw out there is that I don't know that the last two years, and for all we know, Manafort and Cohen jokes aside, I don't know how much, you know, I don't know how much long. You know, I don't know how much long. this is going to be our reality, it could be our permanent reality in some ways. But I don't think that the last two years are necessarily like the most accurate lens through which to view this whether or not a show can be, a talk show could be successful on a streamer because almost any talk show now has to orient itself around Trump

as a, as the sun on, you know, on which it orbits, you know, around which it orbits. So I'm trying to think like, you know, like Getherd is going off the air. I don't even know. Do they still make Eric Andre? Do they still make Eric Andre? No. I think they probably would if you wanted to, but I don't think they're new episodes. It's kind of like whatever, right? But even in that case, I mean, that's, that show is so out there that only is so many people are going to be able to take it in. Michelle Wolf, all these shows are going to have to be like they're competing with so many other people who are also talking about Trump. And then most people, I think, throughout their day are at least ambiently, if not obsessed with, ambiently aware about, if not obsessed with.

with what's going on in the news all day. So it's not like when you used to go to work, come home, watch some TV for a couple hours, and then catch the monologue of Leno or Letterman, and it would be like these sort of curious observations about everyday life with some Clinton stuff sprinkled in or some Bush stuff sprinkled in.

This is like what people are pretty much ingesting all day long, and I think it screws up like the amount of interest people have in a talk show at night. But it also has elevated John Oliver. It is elevated Trevor Noah. It's elevated Colbert. certainly. I think it's worth noting that two talk shows that have recently been ordered, one is closer to actually happening when I think they're just sort of going to test out, is Busy Phillips is having a talk show and Nisi Nash. And though both I would love to hear

their opinions on the current state of the world, my guess is that that's not the angle at those shows are going to take, which is a sign of going the other direction. And I think in general, though, we know that Netflix is coming to eat the soul of linear television. Like they want to have all of it. They want to have, you know, they want to steal the cooking shows from Food Network. They want to steal the talk shows, or at least they did. They want to steal the procedurals from broadcast television. They've stolen Shonda Rhymes and Kenya Barris. We know that. But linear live TV still has the ability to tune in just the way we're still used to it. Maybe we're one of the last generations to be used to this. But to see

on a human level our friends on TV. Now, I'm not saying they really are our friends, but there's that human connection that I think is harder to feel when you're watching something that you has been available for 12 hours and will continue to be available for the next 9,000 hours. So I was thinking about that. When I think about that, I was thinking also of this piece that Vulture ran this week where they're sort of interviewing television executives anonymously about their thoughts of the upcoming Emmy Awards. And one of the categories they asked about is the talk show variety. And it's usually it's the dudes plus Samantha B nominated.

And a bunch of people said that this was Jimmy Kimmel's year. and obviously, you know, Jimmy Kimmel is a friend of the ringer, a friend of Bill, whatever. But I'm singling him out because the reason everybody was saying that it's his year was because they were saying, well, what a great broadcaster he's become. You know, not just talking about politics aside, talking about his own personal situations with the health of his son, hosting the Oscars, becoming that guy that traditionally people like to end the day with.

Now, of course, I'm sure he's talking about Trump all the time. They all are. But that human level is still appealing. And I think that will survive and thrive even after, if we survive this particular moment. Fun question here that we ordinarily don't really get a chance to talk about, but the theater, but we mention it from time to time. But Christian Boehm asks, occasionally you guys let some possible former theater dorkery slip out. Is there anything you've seen on stage, classic, or contemporary, that you'd like to see adapted for the screen?

and a follow-up is now the time for those fatigued by comic book movies to go back to the theater. I think it's always great to go to the theater. It's one of those transporting experiences that when it clicks, it can be completely like, you know, mesmerizing, and you find yourself floating out of your body when you're in a room watching people perform like that. I've always kind of wanted to see what someone could do with Tom Stoppard's Arcadia. which I don't believe was ever adapted for screen. No.

But it would be very challenging and very complicated. Even some of the people who are in it aren't sure exactly what happens or what it's about. But did you ever have any that you were like, oh, I wish this would be made into a show or a movie? I was wondering if you might want to list some of the plays you saw me perform in during my illustrious collegiate career in which I just sort of played the assistant

to the people who played the lead roles. on the main stage for two or three years before quitting acting. You know, not Bogakov's flight, you know, that one didn't motivate you, or the time I played man in Howard Cordor's Boy's Life. No, I mean, it's a great question, but, you know, I think the trick with theater to the screen is because it is a performed medium, people often make the mistake that they, you know, success often don't make when they're adapting. books, which is just having to understand on a visceral level that it's a different medium.

You can't just put a camera on it. These are stories that are built to be happening in front of you immediately live, and it just isn't the same if you just roll tape. So all of that as a wordy way to say, I have no idea. I mean, like everyone in America, I'm excited about the possibility of the one day bringing Hamilton to the screen in some form. But the reason they don't, you know, I think people know this. Like the reason it takes years and years for a successful musical, for example, to be brought to the screen is because they don't make those deals until after X number of touring productions have run. You know, they want to basically ring every, and I say this with love and respect for this show and the people behind it. They want to ring every possible ticket dollar out of it before they commit it to the screen, which probably means that all the great people who you and I saw in Hamilton on Broadway like Lin-Manuel Miranda and DeB Diggs and Leslie Odom won't be in the film.

version, but that's okay. Maybe it gives people time to think about what it could be. And I think those thoughts are the ones worth having. Like, okay, well, it's successful in this form. What could it be next? Yeah. All right. Let's wrap up with a nice question here from sentimental robot who wants to know

what's it like making a TV pilot? I think only one of us can answer this. They'd also like to know how many green chilies can one man eat in a week. And have you, are you going, they just basically are like, are you going through the traditional pilot process, pilot order shoot, then series? Um, you know, there was another question here from Hate Street Records about whether or not you were at all, like, worried about now that you're making something. Like, do you, like, have, like, a, in your mind, like, list of people who might not be into what you're doing? But I think we can skip that one. Oh, no, that's fine. I mean, look, you can't, there's always concern, you know, and, and, and, and, like, when I was writing articles, you could be, I'll just use we, like, when we write articles or when we, we, you can, you know, wrote articles for Grandland or you're writing for The Ringer, like, you always have some concern about how things will be received, but the one muscle you definitely learned is you push that

out of your head as quickly as possible. And I'm under no illusions about the fact that, like, a former critic making a TV show has a giant target painted on his back. But I'm getting that, that, that, but I'm getting that target covered over with a wolf tattoo, which is very easy to get here in New Mexico, by the way. Kendall was right. It's, yeah, so I'm, you know, I feel like I should be doing a better job making this more transparent. This is a pilot order. USA order to pilot at Briar Patch. We're making the pilot here. It is, we're recording this on, what is it, Thursday the 23rd.

Next week, we're doing the Tech Scout, which means we get in a van with everybody. We drive around every location. And the next day, we're having the cast is coming in. We're having a table read for the first time, which is going to be really exciting to hear everyone say the words. And then after Labor Day, we're rehearsals, hair and makeup tests. then we start filming next month. And then we've got three weeks of shooting all around here. Because it's a pilot, we don't build anything. So there are no sets. Everything is on location. And we will do our best and we'll shoot the hell out of it and post and edit and everything

and find out like around Thanksgiving if we get to make nine more, which is of course the goal. But I'll tell you, it's incredibly exciting. And it's so far. And maybe this is not everyone's experience. But it has been very much like the frog in the boiling water, you know, like It feels like a sauna for a while until you realize you're being cooked. Because so far it's been really enjoyable. I mean, it's hectic. I would be lying if I said every role in the show was cast. And we're shooting at two weeks.

So I guess that really, but everyone warned me about that. You know that I'm available to play multiple parts and that that's probably something that shows don't do enough is have one actor play like multiple roles? That's the way you want to bring the theater to the screen. But that's kind of a breaking case of emergency thing. Yeah, we know we have, like maybe we take you for granted because we know we have your gifts and the gifts inside of your performing toolbox. You know, and I do know, and I other people have pointed out that a lot of your work for the ringer the last year has been one incredibly successful and long demo reel. You know, so we know that. The problem is I just don't have the part exactly for you.

I know. I mean, that's why I'm kind of holding out for Arcadia. I think that's right. I think you would be better served playing a classic scholar in England. I don't have a part for like an FBI profiler, unfortunately. But, you know, there's always next season. I have a question for you. Oh, wait, can I say one other thing, though?

So far there's really only been one moment when I was like, oh shit. Yeah. Which was, you know, everything is considered. Everything is thought about and planned for and decided upon. Everything on the screen is the result of a decision. And I'm, you know, I've said it before, I'll say it again, I'm incredibly lucky to have this visionary badass Liliam Report directing it.

But there's a bus in the background of one scene. It's just the bus. You know, none of our characters are getting in the bus. No one's driving the bus. This isn't Speed 3, although that would have been a better idea probably for a show. Damn it, Greenwald. Don't give away free ideas. What, but so we said, we saw a picture of some buses

and we said, well, this bus looks like the kind of bus that would be here. and the next day someone came in my office and said they brought the bus and I said excuse me and I went out to the parking lot and they had a bus on a flat bed truck

and they were like here's the bus what do you think of it they just brought me a bus dude here's the thing can I just give you one suggestion yeah

you're a really nice guy yeah but like every once in a while you got to throw a personality curveball so if they bring you a bus on a flat track a flat bed truck and they're like

what do you think of the bus you didn't have to do with this show but maybe one of these shows you're just like get this bus out of here this isn't it I think are you kidding me

I would be lying if I didn't tell you it occurred to me I do think it's important to keep people on their toes in the workplace would you bring Kurt Sutter this bus maybe we should do a you and I weren't the biggest fans of Black Klansmen but maybe we should do a thing

where we both play Andy Greenwald, except I play this sort of like accommodating Michael Cohen flipping guy, and you could just come in and just straight Manafort it and just scream at people over the phone after the day. And everyone's like, boy, Andy's really changed in the two hours since we saw him in the office. Yeah, you should be like, hey, what do you think about this jacket for, for Allegra? What do you like, would you like this? I'd be like, yeah, I'd like that. If hell was freezing over! Is that like a macho man savage voice? I didn't know. basically the only voice work I know how to do.

No, that was, I didn't know you had that in your toolbox. This is yet another audition. You're killing it today. This is great stuff. All right, dude. Let's wrap it up here. I think we'll probably catch up. I don't know, maybe Lodge, 49, maybe Castle Rock.

Will you have an assignment for the weekend you want to dole out to people? I have a lot of assignments for this weekend, but unfortunately, I can't share. They're all bus related. They're all like deep bus related. As I frantically rewrite the script to include bus stunts. Okay. We'll be back on Monday to talk, and then I think Thursday. Yeah, and then going forward, I think Andy will be making appearances only in a spectral fashion

and maybe call into emergency appearances to talk about better call solid developments and Top Gun 2 casting announcements. Speed 3. Okay. Greenwald, have a lovely weekend. Don't need two many chilies. Great job, thank you. Today's episode of The Watch is brought to you by Gillette.

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