The Watch - The WGA’s Surprise Deal With the Studios, Bad Robot Downsizes, and the State of International Crime Thrillers on TV

Episode Date: April 6, 2026

Chris and Andy talk about the tentative four-year deal that the WGA reached with the studios (5:42) and the news that J.J. Abrams’s production company, Bad Robot, is downsizing (12:49). Then they react to the ‘Maximum Pleasure Guaranteed’ trailer (29:09) before discussing a pair of international crime thrillers, HBO’s ‘Privilèges’ (32:19) and Netflix’s ‘Unfamiliar’ (44:16). Later, The Watch: After Dark (01:00:00). Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel here for full episodes of The Watch and so much more! Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Producers: Kaya McMullen and Kai Grady Additional Video Supervision: Sarah Reddy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hello, and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Rod. and I am an editor at the ringer.com and joining me in the studio, he is risen. It's Andy Greenwald. That's a reference to another charismatic Jewish guy with questionable hair.

What's wrong with your hair? I don't know. I get a lot of comments. From who? From your fans. What? You can see our heads. They talk about your hair?

Yeah. Oh. Well, I'm sorry. That's okay. Next time we have a meeting, I'll talk about it. Just listen. Control your people. That's all I'm saying.

Greenwald, great to see you, bud. Great to see you. We have a lot to talk. Yeah, we missed you on Thursday. Joe was very nice to come by. We did a primetime programming grid. We talked about something very bad is going to happen. We talked a little bit about the pit news that I was going to see if you wanted to comment on.

I do. I'm worried I missed the night shift discourse, too. I feel like that went over big. It did. And it's just growing, although I do feel like the internet is now like just like scraping the, like, most casually tossed off. Like, sure, that would be cool. like Sean Hattesey quotes. Yeah.

To be like, Night Shift is in development and the Russo brothers will abandon Doomsday to make it. Yes, that's right. So, yeah, like we said, by way, today on the pod, you can, first of all,

I'm gonna do your stuff. Three resets here. First of all, you can reach us at the watch at Spotify.com, and you can follow us on Instagram at the Watchpod underscore, and you can watch us on YouTube at Ringer-Dash TV,

and you can watch us on Spotify, where I think you're probably listening to us, but you can find us on lots of different podcast platforms. And on the podcast today, a few news and notes, a WGA agreement, the closure of a beloved production company

in Los Angeles. Oh, yeah. My weekend at the films, at the movies. Ooh, I want to hear about that. And then we're going to talk about two international crime shows. Couldn't be us.

Friends and Neighbors is back. I'll get to it. Andy's going to get to it probably eventually. I think I've watched enough friends and neighbors in my life personally, but maybe I'll check out second season a little bit. Are you doing the Dave Wasserman?

I've seen enough. I want to see Marsden and then I will have seen enough. Okay. Can I come over the top with one A-block story for us today in the podcast? Absolutely. Happy birthday, Kaya. Thank you. She keeps it really quiet about that stuff.

Private. I know. And here I am. Is that why your sister was in town? Yes, it was. Whoa, okay. See? That's on Instagram.

Okay, she keeps it private. Tell me more about your family. How was that? Shabli. Kaya, was it Okie or no? Not a real Shabbly then. Happy birthday, Kaya. Thank you. Are you, should I guess your age? Sure, go for it.

31. Close. It's a big one. 30. Mm-hmm. You're 30 and you're here? Yeah, I don't really know why. Oh my God. I know. You don't remember that. One of the ways to know, forgive me, there are many ways to know, but one of the ways to track

Kaya's age is she's the same age as our friendship. Yeah, exactly. Wait, is this the day we met? Today? No. No, she wasn't born. She didn't emerge into the world the moment we locked eyes at a border's books and music. Then it would make sense that she was here. It was like we were, it's like in a paradise.

We've been on these roads together. It's like a line. I feel bad that you're here on your 30th birthday. There's nowhere else I'd rather be. That's really nice. That's the watch. That's a great. She has a lot of plans today, but she wanted to know our thoughts on two international spy thrillers.

Just before she committed to the rest of her birthday. Literally dozens of other people. There are dozens of us. Was that the only A-block news you had for me? Yeah, although I'm still reeling from your protein announcements right before we started recording. Greenwald was just crushing like a nameless yogurt that trumpets its own protein offerings. And I was just speaking from personal experience that when I was at the beginning of my

wellness journey. Where are you now on your wellness journey? I'm in the zone. I know it's good for me and really what it is is like you have to tune out. all of the noise and lift weights. You have to get back to the back of the comic book that's like, what's up, Pipsweak? Pick this heavy thing up 55 times.

Chicks'll dig it. To be clear, many parts of the comic book spoke to me, none louder than that page. Than the back page adds. No, you just, I see that you got this thing and I've been there, man. I used to... Wait, stop.

One time, I put way too much protein powder in some Greek yogurt. And I thought I could see God. Like, it was really disgusting. I want to just make a couple things clear. I'm tired of the allegations, okay, that you're trying to promote here. I'm not into the supplements. I'm not adding powder.

When you say I brought something in, I arrived. Some of us get to the podcast early, okay, once. And I was like, I'm early. I could get a snack. And our friends here said, you can go to the other turn right by the office named Danny DeVito. And there's some snacks. And they had, I was like, maybe I'll have a yogurt. The only yogurt they had is protein maxing.

Okay, that's not me. My attitude towards all this stuff is, just moderate. Yeah. Eat a little bit of this, drink a little bit of that. Lift a little bit of weight. Sure. Do some stretching? You ever do that?

I do sometimes. Yeah. You look great. Thanks. But I just want to be clear. I was a little thrown. It's like a middle-aged guy power thing where you sit down to go to work and you're like, you sure about that?

I just want you to be happy and help. while we do this podcast and while we talk about the new agreement signed by the WGA. That's going to keep me happy and healthy. And I always mess up their crazy little acrim. That's them. The Ampita. The studios. And I think the one thing I would mention about this is, it seems like, at least in the initial reporting, it's a four-year deal.

Unlike, usually a three-year. Usually a three-year. This is a four-year. Some really interesting reporting over the course of the weekend about, I saw some quotes from Christopher Nolan, who's not only the director of The Odyssey and Inception, but is the head of the DGA. And he was like, you know what? I don't like long deals.

Because if we'd signed a five-year deal in 2020, like, imagine how much this industry has changed since then. Isn't this Bill's advice, too? Bad on yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Weird the way Bill and Christopher Nolan feel comfortable making that advice. Yeah.

As a member of the Writers Guild's Association. You must be happy. I'm happy and curious. So this was a... That's the best place to be, man. That's where I live. That's what makes me an essential cultural critic. Thank you.

Happy, curious, full of protein. Yeah. This was a surprise. Not that a deal was reached, but that it was reached so quickly and so apparently amicably because negotiations have only been going for about 10 days.

There was a lot of concern, as there always is. This is going to blow your mind. Writers are a bit of a neurotic. lot. So there was a lot of what-sapping. A lot of what-sapping and also a lot of just general ambient concern because this is not me speaking for any ambient WhatsApp. But I think this is a shared feeling. Every three years, the Writers Guild makes a deal and every three years somehow we end up looking like Charlie Brown trying to kick Lucy's football. Yes. No matter what. I think management and labor, that is generally how people feel. Yeah. So the fact that, and also

So obviously the last few negotiations were quite fraught, not just the strike three years ago. The one before that was COVID, so that kind of got rubber stamp quickly. The one before that was like 11th hour and people were writing strike signs. So there was a lot of concern about that. When I think, I write the money. I was like, which pun shall I scribe today? But it would have been for like 2018, right? Yes.

Yeah. Oh, it would have been a lot of like, think about that. The president of the United States just declared war on science. Nevertheless, I persisted. The hardest, I mean, there were many challenges of the strike, but one of the biggest challenges was arriving at the studio, like, during and not necessarily, like, at the beginning of a shift. And all the only signs left would be, like, really corny puns.

And you'd be like, come on, we're writers. Yeah, let's get in a room. Let's work for this. Let's work up some of this. The reason I said, curious, is mainly because the details haven't been announced. What was announced by the studios and by the writers was that whatever this deal is that it addressed, this is easy for them to say, the two biggest items on the docket. The biggest one being the health fund, which I am apparently going to be in need of due to my protein-induced renal failure. But that there is quite a big shortfall financially.

We needed the studios to put more money into that pot, basically. And the other thing was just the vague AI protection. and people have concerns about being paid for post services and things like that. So just some general ambient issues that apparently they did address, but we'll find out more details in the coming days. I think the biggest changes here, from what I understand, is the absence of Carol Lombardini, who was the chief negotiator for the past few contentious. Sharp elbows.

Apparently. She had stepped down. Allegedly. Carol, you might be a soft elbow negotiator for all I know. Maybe she just ate the wrong thing right before she stepped into the way. the room. She was just like, I thought this was, I thought this was equal. I didn't know that this was protein powder. So we don't know that. But, but the other way to look at it and is, the other way to look at it might be, and this is 100% pie in the sky, and you can say this before

details come out, it would be nice to think that there was some shared sense of, we are in the precipice of really existential change to this industry, all industries, the American economy, America and it would be great if we could find some common ground to not weaken each other at this moment. I hope that's the case, but we'll see. It's it seemed like the last work stoppage took several years to get over, you know, in terms of like getting things back on track and production timelines. It was quite disruptive. But it also was, you know, there was more detail to it than this. This is a broad brush. But one of the things that we went on strikeover was something, it's a little inside baseball, but mini rooms, right? That there was a, it was becoming

more and more frequent that instead of when green lighting a show, instead of giving a showrunner, or creator, producer, writer, a full room, they would hedge their bets and say we will fund, you know, two weeks, three weeks, six weeks, see what you can get done. And then if if what comes out of that mini room, whether it's one script or three scripts or more, is promising, then we will roll with it. And so it was important for the writers to guarantee some protections involving those mini-rooms, which were sort of free-floating and not necessarily, you could necessarily apply minimums and things to those rooms. So we fought, we went on strike, we got concessions, and the studio said, cool, we'll never do those again.

And the football went up in the air. Exactly. You would think that we would, again, because it's weird, writers do have some parent issues. I believe as well. So you'd think that there would be some memory. Not that it ever feeds into their work or anything. Never. So there was a lot of that kind of stuff. The other thing I'll say, before we move on the topic, that is a black eye.

This should be a great moment for the Writers Guild. I will say that it is an ongoing black eye that the Writers Guild support staff has been on strike from the Writers Guild for a number of weeks, which is embarrassing and ridiculous. And then in the midst of this, before the deal was announced over the weekend, Word got out that in its own hardball tactics against its own staff, the Guild of which I am a member, is cutting off the health care of its own staff, which is something that the AMPTP has never done to writers. So clean your own house up, is what I would say. It's ridiculous. That sucks. It sucks. I didn't know about the health care part. I knew that they were out on strike because

I think Seth Rogen made a reference to it at the Oscars or maybe at the or at the SAG Awards. he was like, we can't even have the WGA. Yes, the awards, that's exactly right. The Writers Guild Awards didn't happen because of this ongoing strike. You know, I was just bringing up the labor negotiations between the WGA because over the weekend, there wasn't like a ton of hardcore entertainment news

that we would need to pick over that much. But I did note that J.J. Abrams is closing bad robot in Santa Monica, which is his production company. And moving to New York. Spielberg did this too. They made a big, they didn't write an essay, like, my leaving LA essay, but they moved on. You know, you can never really tell with social media testimonials anymore and like whether this is like a guy who stopped in and got a protein yogurt once and is now writing like a goodbye to all that about it. But the back half of this podcast.

You did see a lot of very similar kind of like bad robot had 3D printers and smoothies for all. Yes. And a slide on the roof. Yes. And it was a hub of creativity. and I don't know if anybody actually gives a ship, but this is kind of the version of the California dream that we thought we were moving out to.

Like, I never thought I was going to write Mission Impossible movies or anything like that. But I know that when you moved out here to be a screenwriter, there were a lot more places like Bad Robot, dotting the California landscape. And I was driving home from dinner last night past a completely dark and abandoned arc-light centerrama complex, which I saw even the,

saved the arc light social media account was like, I give up. I no longer I'm doing this. This is not going to happen. Because from what we understand, and this is, this is super inside baseball, but the arc light is a beautiful Cinerama dome. The most, like this spread out ridiculous fake town does not really have a central square other than maybe the fountain at the Americana. The arc light was that and is a great place to see movies and a historic place. It's been closed since COVID. From what we understand, multiple people have attempted to open a movie theater there, but have been rebuffed because for whatever reason, the developers who own the site think it's more profitable not to have something there?

Whatever the write down is to have it, but not operate it. This economy works, ladies and generally. In a case, this is maybe not like the most irrelevant thing to people outside of the movie television industry and the greater Los Angeles area. I just thought it was notable that it does seem like at the same time that the studio landscape is changing with the paramount acquisition of war. Warner Brothers saw that you guys got your Gulf State funding. So shout out, Dave.

Came through right at the last second. That guy negotiates, you know. No matter what. I just thought it was an interesting, like, little mile marker on the road of like, oh, yeah. Like, there was a time when, like, the entire city was kind of dotted with, like, shingles. Production houses.

You know, boom time sort of trappings. For what it's worth, there weren't many. places like Bad Robot. Like, I've been there for a couple meetings, and it is what people, I mean, it was a remarkably curated space. Everything was creative and whimsical and, you know, tactile with old machines and an incredible chef and people loved going to work there. And famously, or honestly, infamously, when we look back on it, like moments from Force Awakens were shot in that office. Yeah. Like they were just playing around with some Stormtrooper get-ups, you know, to run into this office. I mean, I can. I mean, I can.

guess maybe they probably green screened the office. It wasn't actually like, you know, air on chairs on the Millennium Falcon. But anyway, I'm of mixed feelings, I have mixed feelings about this because when you put it in the larger framework of the slow death of a creative industry, it is galling and heartbreaking. And it is a shame because that was a place that people were excited to do business with and to be involved with. And it did feel like an idea factory and was set up to sell the idea of an idea of being an idea factor. I think the flip side of it is you could also look at it as a requiem on kind of the waste and indulgence of the last 10 years. Sure.

Where I believe the deal that locked bad robot into Warner Brothers was in excess of $250 million. And that's not a check to JJ. That's to keep the company. I think that's probably more also like the way NFL contracts work where you're like, whoa! And then it's like, actually, it's only like $6 million guaranteed. but like... I don't think it's that is the problem. Oh, really?

You think they got like the quarter bill but made duster? Yes. Okay. I think that from my understanding of these deals and this is why we see... There's two sides of it. Like, as a writer in this world

who would love... Let me look to the camera. Would love another overall deal. We want more of those. That's good. In the same way that the players are like, no, Kyle Tucker's deal is awesome for all of us, thank you.

No need for a salary cap. But the flip side, of it is when those deals had reached such a ludicrous point that based on name and past performance, this is why we always use, I don't know why we always go to baseball analogies, but this is why we go to the Albert Poolews analogy.

A quarter bill for J.J. Abrams is kind of after the fact for Lost and Cloverfield. Right. Which doesn't mean to say his best days as a creative himself are behind him, but if you look at what that company produced for its TV and movie

obligations in the last few years, and look, it's hard. You can't just flip a switch. Sure. And they had many antique steampunk switches. You can't just flip one and make brilliant, successful stuff that connects with audiences. But the return on investment was relatively low. And maybe lower overhead might produce more, better. I don't know.

But anytime jobs leave here, not great. We'll find out when he gets back to the land of Big Zo. Do you think? You think he and Stephen are just in the lab? Maybe they're going to do some more sketches with Curtis Slewa about cat health. I wanted to let you know that. I saw the drama. Yeah, I had a question for you about it. I asked you over text, but my, I want to know your thoughts, no spoilers, because I want to see it, but I needed to know from you

that the twist is not horror. This is the funniest question you've asked me in 2026. Is it a horror movie? No. Then I'll see it. Yeah. It goes to show you how complicated it is to market something like this today, because there is the version of it that you actually can't help yourself, but click on everything about it and find out over the course of clicking what the film is about. And then there is like, I don't know if you are willfully not reading about it.

Yes. Or willfully. We're like third hand being like, if they're hiding something from me, is it Satan's dog comes... Mephisto. Yeah, comes flying out from under the bed. No, I saw the trailers,

and it is a wink, wink, wink marketing campaign. So I understood, but I haven't read past that. So my understanding was that there was a twist. you can't make a movie about a couple getting married with that framing and that. I mean, everything in the marketing told you there was more too. And all I want, I don't think. It's not a horror movie. Then I'll see it.

Yeah. You liked it. It is a, so it's directed by this guy, Christoph Borgley, and it definitely has like some qualities that are very Scandinavian. He did dream sequence? Dream scenario. Dream scenario with Nicholas Cage. This film is set in Boston, but in some ways, like, could be Copenhagen. You know, everybody's looking great and seems to have a.

socialized health care. But it is kind of like the inverse of your preferred version of Scandy drama, you know? Okay. Like, say, like, sentimental value. Like, the way, like, I know you respond to Yoakim, like, in, like, the kind of emotional

catharsis. It's because he's a girl dad. Have we mentioned that? Who? Yoakim Punterer? Uh-huh. Yeah. Is that... I just watch the interest drain from you. I like the sentimental value. Must be nice.

Okay. To have children? No, dad, to be a girl day. You don't care. I care. No, no, no. You care about me. Yeah. But that is not a driving force. I could care less if a director is a girl dad. I know. Yeah. You know who cares. All this cares. Sean. Sean's with me on that one. Yeah. Yeah. What about guy dads? I respect what you're doing. Go have catches. Like, we need good men in this world.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love the drama. I thought it was quite good. But also, you said you liked it, if I don't mean to blow you up here and do reportage on your text. Sure. But you'd seem like you liked the experience of seeing the movie a lot. And then you also liked the apprae cinema. You like talking about this movie. Yes. And I'm sorry I can't back you up on it, but I really enjoyed going out to dinner with my wife after seeing the drama and then talking about the drama a bunch, you know, reading little Justin Chang and being like, well, look what he says. It was like, it was a very engaged evening. What was, first of all, you were both very engaged conversationalists about culture. It's enjoyable. What is off the top of your

head. What was the worst post-movie dinner conversation you've ever had with Phoebe? Was it when you had to take her to see The Eternals or something? No, it was like, she, she tapped out on like going to movies that she knew she was going to hate a long time ago. I think we left the film 21 grams in the middle of it because it was giving her a panic attack. Fair. And I don't remember what we did afterwards. We might have gotten drunk. That's probably why you don't remember it. That's awesome. That's great. Okay, I wanted to see if you had any pit thoughts before we get into the international crime shows. Not necessarily about the episode or about, for sure, about the episode if you'd like.

And also about the cast changes and the general state of the series as we enter, I believe, the last two. Yeah, I mean, I think that there, one of the things that I have just loved, and I think we've been, I've been beating this drum pretty consistently for the last few weeks, is I absolutely love the way the show is surprising us and manipulating us in the, best possible dramatic way with pace and expectation. The season is not going to end without something else big happening. I don't think there's going to be necessarily resolution to Robbie's dark night of the soul, dark day now into the night of the soul. But I think that story will be pushed more into the center of the table in one way or another. But the fact that this episode felt very like both at once kind of elegiacic and like,

reflective for the day that was. And, you know, and Ogilvy has changed so profoundly over the course of these 12 hours, but everyone has been changed slightly by what has happened. To have that happening concurrently with the show's honest to God superpower, no other show has ever done this, which is just like if you need a shot of, I guess not Versed, the opposite of Versaid. Yeah, adrenaline. We have an entirely different cast of this show just ready to roll.

just to show up and give us completely new blood, new faces, new energy, new relationships, new perspective, it's unprecedented. And it's so, so exciting. And of course, the fact that it's so exciting is why people are immediately fancasting and wishing for spinoffs. But it also, this is what you're referring to in terms of the news, makes sense that the show has, the other thing that it has that other shows have never had is a farm team of just characters that could be upstreamed to the main cast and be part of it, which is what's happening with Aisha Harris's, I believe. Yeah, Dr. Ellis. Dr. Ellis's character who, look, all these night shift people from Dr. Shen to Jack,

I mean, these guys all have main character energy. And they are the main character of the non-existent night shift show. But that makes a lot of sense. And again, like the, it is unique to the show. Or maybe it's not unique to the show. There have been other shows that we've talked about that have like a built-in mechanism them for cast turnover and the shows that have used it that well. They can do things where, like, I think that Dr. Mohan, who I, I'm a fan of the actor and the

character, it seems, it's, I don't think anybody watching the season was surprised that she may have, that story may have reached its natural end. Her character was going to go one of two directions. She was either going to be like, I, I am going to be like, I am going to pace and demands of this department. Or I'm a really good doctor, but I don't really want to do this kind of medicine. Which I think is a totally, I think one thing that's cool about what the show does

is it just gives you the viewer the information. When Whitaker is talking to Ogilvie and Ogilvy is like, I'm gonna go do Peds or something. Whitaker's just like, this is the only place where you really feel like, I feel like I'm making a difference in people's lives and you see them on their worst day. That seems great.

One thing that'll be interesting to track as the show runs two, three, four, eight seasons, it can be, it, cruel isn't the word, but it can be swift in its determination about things. Sure. And they can say, I have no reason, two things to say. One, I have no inside information whatsoever about the production of this show. That said, I believe them when they say that Sapria Ganesh is moving on because that character, for story reasons, has reached the end of its story road, and they're going to switch it up. Tracy Afeacher who played Dr. Collins in season one, her departure that she never came back from her D&D notice on her phone, still strikes me as super odd. But they can say it's story reasons because this is turnover. Yeah. They can, so I guess what I mean is that like as we reach season five and season six of the show, new faces get announced, there's going to be, it's going to be a little stressful because it's not like being added to, like it's all at will employment. People can be written off of shows all the time. But I think that people get, you. Usually when people get added to a hit show, they're like, awesome. I can settle in for a minute.

Yeah. This show is built on turnover and you can't guarantee anything other than the fact that you are going to get a big boost out of whatever you do on the show. I think it'll be fascinating to see over the course of the rest of this season and is certainly into season three, which I imagine will air sometime early in 27, if not exactly when season two started airing. Whether there become untouchables on this show. And I think that Dana and Robbie are. And Whitaker. And Whitaker might be, and Santos might be as well in some ways. And Mel.

If that crew is like locked in or if there is still like, it could be anybody. And I don't think they would make this show without Noah Wiley or I don't think the show is the same show without Noah Wiley. But, you know, they are having these characters at a crossroads in their life, especially Dana and Robbie thinking about like whether or not they can actually do this anymore. And so that's an interesting crossroads to arrive at in season two. And I don't know if you can return to the same crossroads in season three with the same characters. Well, what you can do, I think the thing that we keep, and certainly I do, I keep getting rocked and impressed by how nimble the show is in taking advantage of its uniqueness, not just its uniqueness in terms of its setting and hours, but uniqueness in terms of its clockwork,

old-fashioned dependability. there absolutely can be a season of the pit where Robbie doesn't show up until hour eight. They can be a season of the pit where we get a lot more Dr. Shen and a lot less Dr. Santos. Sure. The show is built to contain that.

And I also think the nature of it, where they are filming in L.A. at a certain time every year, I think that they can take advantage of that. I think it's very different than telling an adult actor you need to move to Belfast for one to six years. Now, stuff gets done. Like the travel departments of these networks,

I can say, are very efficient, terrifyingly so, at getting people to other countries and relatively quick turnaround. But I think that that aspect of it, it also, that even, that's a grandiose way of talking about the kind of familial thing

that they are already creating, where relatives and wives and partners of many of the cast members have already shown up. It popped up, yeah. There was Noah Wiley's wife was this week or the previous week.

She was the person who had too much turmeric. Oh, yeah. The Maha person, yeah. Actually, I don't know that she's actually identified as Maha. Yeah, be careful.

Chris. Well, you're the one with the protein yogurt. Look, some of us are just curious. You're the one with Robert Kemp Kennedy Jr. Brand yogurt.

I'm not taking that because I'm hungry, by the way. I'm taking it because I'm very sick. And I've heard that yogurt can... This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime Ever have a plan come together out of nowhere

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I like it when you're like, I have a number of talking points for you. I was going to ask you about the maximum pleasure guaranteed trailer. This is an upcoming show on Apple starring Tatiana Maslani. The reason I was going to ask you about it was because I couldn't tell whether or not we

are in a the throes of a wave of popularity about upper middle class curiosity about the dark side of life or if that is just one of the most durable things to make TV about anyway, and I'm just imagining it because of DTF and this and your friends and neighbors. It's obviously something that Apple is interested in is this seemingly

perfect person just got a little bit dangerous the other day. You know, like, and this seems about to be about a woman who starts exploring her sexuality and then some various levels of crime start happening around that. It's a slippery slope, Karen. That's right. That's the genre. Is her named Karen in this? No, I'm just saying that's the new genre. I'm inventing. Slippery Slop, comma, Karen. Well, Karen always be calling the cops, right? Oh, well, we don't, we haven't seen the episodes. Yeah, but like, episode one. This won't do. Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep. It's ringing. You guys are in so much trouble. Hold on. Yeah, you, you stay right there, young man.

They put me on hold. They put me on. They've all been laid off. Do you, but do you notice these guys of things where it's just like, oh, for some reason we're making 10 shows, like for a while there, I felt like half the shows that we get announced or, you know, released were from the true crime podcast about the dentist who killed 50 people but also had six wives, you know, like... I think that you can track middle class... Well, there's no such thing as a middle class anymore. Sorry, it's just a funny little joke.

You can track a certain upper middle class, let's say, malaise through the, through television. and Breaking Bad, for example, which is maybe the greatest example of this, of like, I'm a successful suburban science teacher. Wait, systems aren't working for me. I shall cook drugs. That's how I remember the pilot. That premiered, maybe even the day.

No, it premiered in January of 2008. So it premiered just as that presidential campaign was starting, but was clearly developed at the end of the Bush era of like just economic ruin and foreign misadventure. and I would say that you could track this. Like, that's the canary in the coal mine, especially at a moment when it's weird. It's like, in the last year and a half, two years,

TV got really interested in the plates of well-off white people again, which gave us some content. But I think you can track that, and I would be curious to see some of the, you know, we've heard about announcements of some, like, return to the family drama type shows and to see those Geiger-counts, or wobbles institutionally, systemically happening to that sort of person.

That is an end, it's an endlessly renewable well, but seems to come up to the surface at certain times. Well, you know what? This is actually a pretty good segue. We watch two international crime shows this weekend to get ready for the pod. One, you're welcome. One is called Unfamiliar. I mentioned it briefly on Thursday. We'll get into that a little bit more extensively because I think that did more for us. But I do want to ask you about this show on HBO Max called Privileges, which is a French language show or French show. And it is from the creators

are Marie Mung and Vladimir de Fontaine who I believe were in attendance at the Eyes Wide Shut party I was at this weekend. I'm just kidding. It just sounds like kind of the people with the cloaks. Tell us more about the party. No, I'm just joking. Was it held in the abandoned

Cinerama Dome? Like, we are failing as a nation. Thus we must embrace perversity. When you get up to the door, you go, Tarantino, and they let you No, just, you know, I was just having fun at the expense of their names, but not fun at the expense of their show, which I actually, I think I enjoyed a little bit more than you. But the reason I'm connecting it to maximum pleasure guaranteed is this is in and of itself a crime show. And there's basically two shows here in privileges. It's about a young inmate named Adele, who's a wonderful performance by this young actress named Menon Bresh.

She's awesome. She, as part of like a work release program, joins the staff of a luxury hotel called the Citadel in Paris. And it's a kind of secretive program that the manager of this hotel, Edward, runs. We are led to believe probably because he himself has come from a rough patch in his life. Also, what happens is he gets these people to come aboard,

and they basically will do anything for him to stay out of prison or to secure some sort of release. Because Adele is returning to prison every night. Yes. you know, as he brings her on, there's this pilot episode. She gets used to being there and then pulls off an extraordinary request of a pop star guest of the hotel. This hotel is sort of at the nexus of power, fame, money, and basically every single guest is either need something, want something, is doing a drug, is having an illicit affair or something. So you get a lot of good TV marrow out there.

the thing I was going to say is that they approach this world from the perspective of somebody who has nothing in this Adele character, whereas like the ones you're describing in America are tend to be, hey, everything was going pretty great for me until fuck. And it does change your brain chemistry to watch a series where, you know, first of all, you can totally understand why Adele will, and, you know, no spoil. I guess spoilers for this first episode, because it helps to be able to discuss it. There is an extremely. extraordinary sequence in the first episode of privileges where Adele goes and fetches a boa constrictor for one of the guests and it is shot like uncut gems as is much of Adele's kind of behavior and action in the show is very like handheld incredibly tense heart thumping um and it's it's like you're cheering for her in a way that i don't think you cheer for coop in your friends and neighbors to get away with stealing Rolexes from another rich guy all that is to say there is another half or 75% of privileges that is basically a Fox procedural. Yes. And is 19 different black male plots overlapping and even for my fluency and international crime challenging to keep straight all the different subplots that they have introduced within 70 minutes of TV time? What did you think of the show? Yeah, I mean, I have a larger take for both of these shows. And I do think we need to start discussing this as its own genre, which is, I think,

elevated Euro trash. Hey. It's okay, brother. Listen, I'm not, as someone who went to college in the northeast of the 90s, I was jealous of the elevated Euro trash. They knew which bars to go to. You know, they dressed great.

Sometimes they would get me a cocktail. They had those CD singles seemed to come out of nowhere for them. All the CD singles. The, but it's also just about how the way these types of shows, and this is not just these two shows,

This is a lot of the shows that we like, and I was thinking back to Lupin and all of these European shows made for international streamers. There's a certain language, visual language. There's a color palette. There's a lack of humor that is just shot through them all, and it's becoming a little bit samey. But I think that you're making a...

But I did like this show, and I think it's a really, really smart and strong setup of this character coming into this world through the service entrance. And hotels are fascinating, bizarre places that are... Great place to do a TV show. Incredible energy and engine for plot and story

because you have new people showing up every week. I think the way you're looking at it is really smart. We talked about this recently in relation to Taylor Sheridan shows and how I just... Maybe he's no longer, you know, now that he owns most of rural America himself, he's no longer the person to write the Man of the People show. But I think that everyone... of the Taylor Sheridan shows I've engaged with over the last year

would have been improved by, like, Landman would be much, much better if it was about Boss's crew and then the other characters were there too, but they were fleeting, as opposed to we have access to all of it and we are as interested in the guys who literally got blown up as we are with Demi Moore's... Well, to your point, for a variety of reasons, I think Landman's season one works better than season two. Number one is because Tommy works for somebody in season one.

It's a great point. Yes, he is like, I gotta do it, and Monty says, and that I might not believe it all the time, and I have to go sell it to this person and this person. And I think not to, I can't believe we're, you're finally letting me talk about international shows in other languages. And I'm like, the thing about Taylor Sheridan is, this is, you really cooked me. That is so bad. But I do think that as much as like the Taylor Sheridan hero narrative of Taylor Sheridan is look where he was and look where he is now. And that is the narrative then of all of his shows.

And so that's probably why he can't. Unless young Taylor coming to CBS this fall, they did it for Sheldon. They could do it for him. He's like, I'm an actor, but I want to be a writer. And they're like, oh, Taylor, you never could be a writer. Just get back on that motorcycle son of Ankar. I'll show you. Type, type, type, type, type.

And then the Black Hawk helicopter said, women are sad sometimes. Anyway. Honestly, in Linus, they are sad sometimes. With good reason, because they've taken out a foreign government. Brownie face. Actually, the opposite of what you thought for me, because I love to zag, I thought the second episode of Privileges was better because it had settled into what it was going to be. I thought the first episode had so much to do to get Adele into this world and for us to

understand the stakes and all the faces and the characters. And it was based on something that I found so profoundly silly, which is the snake heist. Yes. I see, I like that. But it had some, but it wasn't, it should have been funny, but it was shot as if it was uncut gems, and there needed to be some absurdity to it, I thought. Instead, it had like the most French needle. Ciskel and Eberting it now right now. I like this.

It had the most French needle drops ever where it's just like some old spiritual, like sped up, you know, and she's like, you must bathe in the water. And she's like, I'll rescue the snake. And it's a boa constrictor, but do you see the Foley guy in France was like lighting one cigarette off the other and being like, I will add the ratel of this snake. But Boas don't have rattles.

No, no, no, you don't understand. We have no snakes in France. This is scary. This is scary. And then it was like also the scene. There's a lot of snakes in that scene. She has to find the boat. But then every time they wanted to remind us that she had the snake on her person,

they were like adding the same sort of Polynesian jungle sounds. They used to play at Epcot. I didn't notice that, but that is really perceptive. So nuts. Anyway, by the time I got to the second episode, it's like, okay, now she's, she's, in it and the stakes are what they are. And, you know, now there's an international football star who wants to play PlayStation with her. And then there's also the larger, there have to be Russians.

And then one of my other favorite things ever in these international shows is when they have to have an American person in the cast. Mark Pepo is the name of the character. The cast, the American tech bro named Mark Pepo. That's so good. And they always refer to him as Mark Pepo. Mark Pepo. Yeah. Mark Pepo is here.

He has requested the cheap champagne. And I do believe the actor who plays Mark Pepo is French, but maybe he was raised in two cultures. Much like yourself. Much like myself. One culture with you, one culture that is just really annoying. And somehow we make it work. It was like the same thing.

Like, remember the rich guys in Squid Game? Yes. They were like, hey there. Hey, honey, wipe my ass with an American flag. It's like the guy in the country who plays that part is just available. I'm really hoping some American CIA. agent shows up on unfamiliar. That would be so sick.

There's a lot of English and unfamiliar. We need to get to it. Anyway, I think it's a charming show and it's a good show and has room to grow. I do wish that it was freed of, and we could segue into unfamiliar if you want, because I wish it was freed from this same. Privilege is HBO Max, but it is Netflix-y. And one thing, just to contextualize all of this, like, every nation, every nation, once had a thriving.

So in the 18th century. Come on. Vladimir Lenin. The television set was invented as a toll for the worker to entertain himself. When Tracy Lutz began August Osege County, how could he have known?

I think Tracy listens. It's time for a rewrite. September, O'Sage County. Yeah. So every country had their own TV services and they were making TV shows and they had more, I would say, distinct national or regional characteristics of how they made TV, some good, some bad, some translatable, and exportable, some not.

I mean, one thing that is worth saying to contextualize what I'm trying to articulate is that when I've talked to people, like people in England, they're like, most of our TV has been dog shit for years, and you would see the six things that were good. I think that's reductive, but I understand that. That's true for us, too. where like we, there are 400 television shows on a year. You and I talk about 12. But now all TV shows are built to be exported

because like with cinema, the international market is incredibly lucrative and makes sense, especially for these services that launch and want their own spoked silos. Launched in England. And so part of launching internationally for an HBO Max to catch up with Netflix

is to say HBO Max in France, HBO Max in Germany, what are our shows that you guys here to develop for us? Just imagining the pit NHS, where everybody is just like, that's taken care of. But imagine if it was But if it was the pit NHS,

the 15 hours would be someone being told they could come back for their surgery in three weeks. And he'd be like, fantastic. They just sort of sit down, maybe get a pint, and then three seasons later, it was like, me gold bladder. It's called. It's got a bit bigger.

Now it's, yeah. But great, great. Sorry for the side. Great pitch. But the international language of the shows is getting samey is all I'm trying to say. And I wish there was a little bit more of an idiosyncratic feel to these shows that it didn't feel like some of the edges were sanded off. It's a double edge short, right? Because like the Sopranos and Wire influences on Libero is what probably

makes it the fucking bureau and it makes it in some ways as good if not as, you know, like as good as those shows that it was influenced by. And one of the things that this is also the opportunity that's given us is switching to unfamiliar, which is a spy show on Netflix, German language spy show created by Paul Coates, I believe is his name. Who I, yes, and again, we don't know, I didn't, I wasn't able to track down the, the actual origins of the show. But my assumption is, in English, right- I think co-pro is now become a genre. So I think multi-country international co-productions is now not just like a way of selling stuff,

but it's like if Paul Coates, who has worked on spy stuff in England and also comes from writing, you know, Emmerdale and Holly Oaks and other shows that sounds like I'm making up their names, but are quite popular. popular in England. Yep. But he's a very accomplished veteran screenwriter. If he's going around and doing meetings, he meets with Gohmant or he meets with a German producer and talking about maybe selling the idea of a British show in Germany.

Yep. This was something where, like, I think he brought an idea of like, I mean, it's essentially the Americans meets Eastern Gate. And they were like, not only yes, let's set it here. And we can get the BND to participate because a, out of a sense of transparency with the German people or something like that. Yes, I think, my assumption is...

The BND being like the intelligence service of Germany. It's very cool building. It's very likely that he had this and it was either written or prepared to be pitched as in a show set in London. And they said, well, why don't you just do it here? That international language is very cool and offers up different perspectives

and also allows the show to be set in 2025, 2026's hottest hot spot, Belarus, which is, I would say what happens in Belarus stays in Belarus, but that is rarely the case. No, they make sure it always catches up with you. It always catches up to you. It is a rough, rough. I mean, what is the current, like, fictional TripAdvisor ranking for holidays in Belarus? I mean, I think we should break our live show moratorium into a Belarus show.

And then that's our last show. and just give in to Mother Russia. But, oh, by the way, before we get into unfamiliar, international translations, we didn't mention the fact that Disney, the larger global Disney Plus umbrella, they're remaking the Americans as the Koreans. Yes. And set in the 80s,

but with North Korean spies in Korea. And I think that's phenomenal. That's awesome. I think it's an exciting idea. I try and think of some other stuff that we could set in different. different places. There are many things we could set in different places.

Do you want to, you know? I mean, we have been doing that anyway, you know what I mean? Like, just without calling it, it's like mobland is just sopranos, but set in England, you know, like, what about DTF Minsk? See what I did there?

Did you just look up cities in Belarus? Is Minsk Belarus? Mm-hmm. Yes, I did. I heard it. I 100% did. Yeah, I was like, damn, you typed,

and then you pulled Minsk out, DTF Minsk. I went, jokes. Chat GPD. Claude. Come on. Yeah, we should do that. We should totally do that. That's a good bit for us.

All right, set up unfamiliar. Let's talk about it. Unfamiliar, like I said, vibe-wise, it's the Americans meets Eastern Gate. If you didn't watch Eastern Gate, it's the Americans meets a slightly more like grounded,

born-ish action spy thriller. 24-ish, you always were saying when we were watching it? Yeah. Homeland-ish as well, maybe? Sure. It was great. One of our favorite shows.

They got unprecedented access to shoot within the BND headquarters in Berlin. And it concerns partners and parents, Simon and Merritt Schaefer. Simon is a girl dad. He is. Well, don't spoil it. I'm not spoilted it. Okay. No stolen valor for you here.

Simon and Merritt are partners and parents. They have a teenage daughter named Nina. They run a nice little Berlin restaurant. And they moonlight running as like they are safe house proprietors. for spies on the run or for intelligence operatives on the run. Their past catches up with them in the form of a Russian spy named Koliath, who is looking to settle a score from an operation 16 years prior that went wrong in Belarus. This one's cool, man.

Six episodes on Netflix, the thing that will get you with Unfamiliar, you watch two of them, they just, that last five minutes, they always are like, hey, but you want to keep watching. It's super Netflix maxing in a way that I, unlike privileges, like I watched the first one of this and I was like, here we go. This is my new favorite show. And I watched the second one. And I was like, yes, this will be fine. Yeah.

It is incredibly engaging the first episode because it just stacks scenarios on top of each other with an absolutely relentless pace. And, you know, from these people, they have a safe house. Oh, they used to be this. oh, there's this thing in the past. Oh, it's connected to the highest levels of power. There's a almost brutal, dare I say, Germanic efficiency to some of it. There was a moment in the beginning of the second episode

when Simon and Merritt, who the married couple, are talking about the state of play. And I know that all the Netflix executives were like, we would never ask our creators to restate the plot every 10 minutes. Maybe they just do it for it. us. But yet, I actually really admired the efficiency of that scene where Merit is basically like,

you're acting crazy. There's a corpse in the safe house and Kolev is back. And now you're telling you this person is alive. And it was like, bang, bang, bang, let's get it done. For foreign language films for our purposes, it helps to have some resetting. I mean, like, the whole like Ben Affleck Matt Damon being told to say what the plot of the rip is six times is probably overblown Dan Lynn who runs Netflix movies as disavowed that. I do you think in the rip that they overstated the circumstances. But in this show, it's welcome because half of it is told in this flashback manner. I will just say that I thought the initial premise of this show of like, we have a restaurant,

but by night we have a safe house in any other world would just be like a really solid backbone for a TV, like a long-running TV show to add on the, A case from the past has come back to haunt us. Our daughter is in danger. Multiple factions of German and Russian intelligence are in play. And one of us has a slow-moving health crisis that would not survive the mid-NHS. There's a hat on a hat on whatever a German hat is. Like the little Kaiser Wilhelm's kind of.

Do they say even German people ever put a Kaiser Wilhelm hat on? I mean, I haven't seen S&L DE yet, but I imagine some of the cold opens have that. Don't you think? I mean, it's a rich country, you know. There's a lot of funny sketch on SNL UK this week. Was there? Yeah. Could you curate the best of the weekend's bits for me?

Like a newsletter? Could I? You probably could. You want me to start like a substack and just start sending you stuff? Or an email. That's what substacks are. Just for me. Oh.

An email, could you email me? I'm asking. And what do I get out of it? I'd be like, you're right. That was funny. you'd probably feel good. You'd be like, wow, I picked a good thing. I made him laugh this weekend.

There was another thing I wanted to say about this, though. I think that that's a really smart, sorry, Siskel and Ebert, I thought that was a really smart observation because I think I agree with you, and I was responding to those rhythms. I think that I enjoyed, decent setups are very, very hard to come by. And they're very hard to come by with funding and financing and good cast. And I can call up or you can, like that. The actors in the show are really strong.

and really compelling. German Sarah Paulson's great as Merit. I don't know what her name is. She's awesome. Spoiler, there is a point in the first episode. This isn't really germane. I won't spoil what she's doing. Actually, I will spoil what she's doing, but not to whom.

Where she performs some advanced interrogation techniques on them. Performs, yeah. She looks pretty cool, wearing like, a full latex torture protection kit. Was anyone wearing that at the Arclight this weekend? And did you approach them casually? Say, Karen? the password is slippery slope. And that's the last thing you remember

until you were talking about the drama. Suzanne Wolfe is the actor. She's good. But just that it's hard to come by these scenarios. And so that is a multi-running, that's potentially a multi-season show for me, but that is not the business model for Netflix Germany right now.

And here's the thing that's funny. So we were talking about the pit earlier. There's a version of the pit that is less strict about, its setting. That goes up to Gloria's admin office that goes home with these people that turns up the knob on their

romantic lives outside of the office. Its adherence to its format and its form, I think, is 50% of the reason why it's successful. If there were subplots in the pit about funding crises or if we were cutting back and forth

between like the legal department and the cyber defense unit, as they were fighting off some of the problems that this season had experienced, I don't think I would be as interested. I'm interested in these people performing their jobs. And so I think with privileges and unfamiliar,

both are very easy to get through because they're watchable in their six episodes and especially with unfamiliar, all the episodes are up. The privileges going week to weeks so the third one comes up this week. Friday, yeah. I just like,

I think that there's a version of like, there's either an unfamiliar that's a movie, and there's an unfamiliar that's like a 12-episode, long-running TV show about people who run a safe house for spies. It's right in the middle. Yes, I think we've talked about this before, but I think one of the biggest challenges to making good stuff these days

is you have potentially limitless formats or vessels to pour your story into. Picking the right vessel is 50% of success. And it might not even be your choice. And ultimately it might not even be your choice. choice. Exactly. I think that things, I think some networks and streamers are becoming a little more case by case and trying to make the best version of it. But other one, but there are many, many other examples of someone having a good idea and finding a potential willing buyer or partner.

And that partner says, we love it, but what we do here or what we need right now is, is world building, is X or the opposite. We need a, we need a limited series right now. We need to dominate. We need a gourmet cheeseburger that will go around the world and be in our top 10. and then you pivot, and you can still end up with something good, but I do think that sometimes that misalignment can stop things from being great. I want to ask you for unfamiliar, what was the most German thing about it? And I'll give you three choices.

Number one, that at least 40% of the cast in the show were also in the television show dark, including Thomas Pitchman, who plays old, what's his name? What was the kid's name, the main kid? Wasn't it Jonas? Jonas, yeah. And in this show, he plays a guy. He's a name Jonas, who maybe could be the same one because he's also dark and brooding and operating with a plot that only he is privy to. Handsome guy, though, happy to see him.

Number two, that the way we understand that certain scenes are set 16 years in the past is that Simon has a single earring. Or the fact that their daughter, Nina. That's the Belarusian way, you know. Just one earring. That their daughter, Nina, is both newly 16 and an accomplished club teacher. That was German as fuck. I also thought it was pretty German that they took public transport

home from the nightclub when they went and saw their teenage DJ daughter. Sabrina the teenage DJ. Yes. A million percent. She also, I would say that any time that... Dawn breaking, they're on a bus. And then when she goes on a, like, a Ural trip,

she wears like the uniform of traveling Germans for the past 40 years, which is sweaters with zippers that they don't need to have. Yeah. Like up to here. My only other note as a big fan of Spycraft, spoiler alert, I don't know, I could be wrong.

I don't know how they do things in Germany because, as you know, Effinger's ended in the late 1940s. So basically the last 70 years of German history is a blank to me. Seems like it's gone fairly well. I don't think that spies call other spies and leave detailed voicemails about where they're going, what they're thinking, and what they need to do. This is another thing that I was going to bring up about

and familiar. First of all, I just want to say, I enjoy watching this show and I will finish it. It's really good, but I did have that kind of like, oh, shit, oh, okay. This was one of the first series that I've come across where the technological advancements at the fingertips of at least fictional spies kind of kills the vibe

a little bit. So there's one point where the Jonas character that we're talking about, who seems to work in private security and is maybe playing both sides against the other is like, let me call up my satellite imagery of this situation. Oh, yeah. And then it's like, hmm, pan left. And I'm like, so what the fuck? Can we just see everything all the time now? That's not spying?

The whole show. That's using a computer. The show began. Let me find out. The opening of the show where a, like a dark asset gets his way into the safe house to determine who these people are, not only does he shoot himself in the knee to do it. Now, again, I'm no ballistics expert, but I feel like there are less painful places to shoot yourself. I think he goes a little bit above.

I think it's the fleshy part of the thigh there. Oh, I thought he was trying to imbead himself, like permanently. Never going to play 65 games again. That he then makes it to their safe house, enjoys their soup, which you know is the scene I really liked a lot. And then once he's unattended, goes into the control room of the safe house and just dials up internet.

Yeah, specifically the Russian back-channel portal to show them a thumbprint. Now, he uses their technology the same way I used to use the Apple store to check my emails on my Yahoo account 20 years ago. Like, that was very simple

and everyone there was like, sure, man, do what you got to do. It seems like everybody is meeting at library bar. I won't be joining them. The opposite. I was the one who would make my way to the Apple store and be like, hello, friends. The temperature has reach 68 degrees. Shall we be drinking alfresco this evening? And before I hit send, Phoebe would be like,

yes. She was my connect. Yeah. Um, yes. I thought that's, like, there's just technology is coming for all of us, even spies. Yeah. Yeah, but I think the reason why we responded so strongly to Oliver Harris books is because he's using it in a way. Very creative way. That feels like it's still the spirit of this work. And even he is like, I create like a character who lives in. Dubai and just can break into any computer. Like it's, it is kind of a cheat, I think, a little bit. Yeah, but I'm sure it's actually accurate.

But then what are the consequences of that? Yeah, that guy has a tough life. But that said, when I Googled jokes about Belarus, it worked. You know, it crushed. I hacked into Paul. It gave you a little taste. I hacked into Paul Prevenza's laptop.

And I was like, I found the mother load. Joke after joke after joke after joke. Any watch after dark topics for us? No, I just want to say that this is, Do you think this is a lighting change? Let's see. Yeah. One of my favorite things about changing

to watch after dark was that when we clipped Mina last week from the show, like two of the clips were just normal clips and then one clip was lit like this, but I don't think there was any explanation that it was different.

I read very little context clues on this show. That's true. It's really, we don't handhold like our favorite television shows. No. I just wanted to let you know that this week, is Euphoria premiering this coming weekend?

This coming weekend. I wasn't kidding that I am ready to do this. Like, I am excited to enter into this show. I'm, so I'm doing rewatchables live in San Francisco this week. Jesus. And then next week, I'm happy to say, I will be appearing at the Zach Lowe live show in Denver. This is like the end of the Marin podcast.

I know. You can catch me at, you're doing the itinerary of an NL West team. The punchline fest in Topeka will, you know, be like. Incredible. But I'm going to make it work. so that we can do euphoria together. I wouldn't miss it for the world.

I really appreciate that. I just want you to know that if I enjoy this experience, I'm going to be insufferable about this, that I have finally figured out how to engage with television after 15 years. Just do what I want. Yeah. Just chaos menu.

Well, for the purposes of this show, I don't know necessarily that that is always a bad idea. Like I have said, there have been a couple, I would even say today, is a little bit of a dead day in terms of like what's on the docket news and shows.

I have a lovely time talking to you but unfamiliar and privileges are not exactly like Headlines. Succession and you know but

would it make sense for us to just be like I turned on dark wins season four. I see what you guys are talking about. It's good. It's a great point

because otherwise you know what will happen? We won't cover dark winds. Yeah. So, yeah. I don't know why I said that like a threat. Sorry.

Anything else? No, I'm excited about that. I want to watch the drama. Do we have other big shows coming that we need to be checking for? You have your document. Chris is the keeper of the keys here in terms of what we ought to be covering.

So we got Euphoria coming up and then the finale is the 16th. That's next week. And Margot's got money problems with David E. Kelly's show with El Fanning's supposed to be very good. Beef season two. But then that's a Netflix situation

so you're going to have to watch all of it to have anything to say about it. Widows Bay I'm very excited about. End of April. That looks like it has horror in it. And the terror devil and silver, which I need you to fucking nut up and watch that with me.

Even though it's about... I fucking need you, dog. I'll never ask anything of you again. Just watch this amsy anthology horror series with me. I think it's more of a psychological thriller anyway. I can do that. Yeah. I can handle that.

I'm not sure about that. There is the devil in silver is the tagline. Well, at least the devil is showing out. Yeah. Dressing up for the occasion. We didn't cover, I think, This is relevant to, there was some literary news that I thought was going to be part of your rundown. Maybe you covered it on Thursday. Some big Ben Lerner interviews?

Miss me with that. Do you not like Ben Lerner? No, I'm not doing a drive by a Ben Lerner. I'm just like, my attitude towards contemporary fiction, and Kaya could jump in because Kaya keeps up with contemporary books in a way that I don't. I don't know if you do either. Let me know in a couple years. That's my attitude towards new novels. Good. Okay. There's a lot of old stuff that I still have to read. What was the literary news that happened that you wanted to talk about? Two television shows based on beloved literary properties are now moving.

One, the corrections has been announced. I can't believe that. Yeah. Core Jefferson is writing and directing an adaptation of the... For what I understand, Cordes is directing. And Jonathan Franzen is adapting his own book. Really? That's from what I understand, yes.

And this has been long gestating. I'm sure... I think it was optioned to be a film by Scott Rudin when the book was published, 25, 26 years ago. It was infamously an HBO pilot overseen by Noah Bombach that...

Still somewhere at a dusty shelf in Santa Monica? Someone can see it. That was 10 years ago and now has been... It's happening. A lot of WIPP producing,

Paramount producing for Apple with Merrill Streep starring. Yeah. Have you read the corrections? Absolutely. I have not. Do you don't remember

that my I was, this is nothing to be proud of. I want to preface this. But I was checking for the corrections because my father took me to see Jonathan Franzen read from his second novel Strong Motion at the downtown borders because Jonathan Franzen's first book, The 27th City, which I also read and enjoyed. Is it about St. Louis. My dad's a Cardinal fan.

I think Franzen is too, right? Yes. So a hardcover copy of Strong Motion says, two Mike go cards. and so I was like Ah, great American novel I see all of you Johnny Come Lately's are now aware of the prosaic brilliance

of the bard of the Midwest Jonathan Franzen So you were there early Did you like the corrections? I loved the corrections And what was the one that he Freedom? Yeah

Purity I kind of tapped out at that way But he loves birds Never did Franzen It's not You never did any franzin It's not a It's nothing to

About it Part of the corrections One of the storylines is in Philadelphia, and one of the characters goes to Front Central School. There's a little Quaker school part of it, and still you dodged it. I did hear about that.

You heard about that. There is a light within.com, the Quaker back channels that you track. Are slash Quaker schools. So that's one. And then the other thing was the announcement that another, this is like, it's kind of like Try Again Month and TV, Bonfire of the Vanities.

Did you see this? Yes. Who is writing this? It's wild. Your guy, everyone's guy, David Kelly, is writing it. Matt Reeves of the Batman fame is going to direct this. And this is a would-be, if this goes forward,

a huge, huge do-over to one of Hollywood's most legendary flops. Brian DePaulma's adaptation of Tom Wolfe's celebrated novel. Yes. Masters of the Universe. Is it time, are we read, is it, is the time right to get the 80s right? I assume that this is going to be a period piece and not an updated for 2008 or 2026, let's just see. Because all the Spycraft would be way too.

I'm excited about that. You also didn't mention that the Wonesome Dove the Rights to Loansome Dove have been purchased. I was watching that. With some interest. Yeah.

And we do not have any creative attached to that yet. Would you like to be a part of that package? I'm putting together a small group of men with a particular set of skills. Sure. I'm trying. Did you actually say like, hey,

just like agents? First of all, you've correctly captured the tone of my email voice. Hey, agents. Hey, team. Guys just spent $100 million and are looking for someone to adapt their cowboy novel. Well, I've read it. I am full of protein and ready for service.

And I love unconditional sunlight. And Jonathan Franzen. I definitely have raised my hands. And then someone stepped on the back of my neck to take the ring. I don't know who's involved with it creatively. I just saw that the rights were purchased, which is the idea of having another go with that. It's very exciting.

I saw also that they were talking about it in relationship to doing all of the Gus and Woodrow books. I think that's right. And that would be pretty cool. Although, as we've discussed, some of those books are darker than the others. The thing about those books, which, by the way, honestly, speaking of contemporary novelists,

I just kind of want to read those again. the order in which they were published chronologically of the story is 3-4-1-2 which is quite odd it's also the way I recommend people read them but Lonesome Dove is one of the greatest American novels of all time chronologically but that was first and is perfect

and you can just read that Streets of Laredo the sequel is so dark it is incredible it's McMurtry responding to the response to Lonesome Dove you think I wrote a classic fuck you guys also I forgot about

trains and Mexicans. I got you. And then, then, what's it called Dead Man's, whatever, the next one? Dead Man's Walk. Dead Man's Walk is unbelievable,

and that is the origins of... Them as young Texas Rangers. Of Gus and... And Comanche Meet Moon is just like a cool, like, adventure story. It kind of spackles the distance from when they were young up to the edge of Lonesome Dub.

I agree. I think it would be cool if they did all of them. I don't think there's any reason to do Hey, we're doing Lonesome Dove again Because as... But if you were going to do it chronologically, that would be quite a long wait to get to Lonesome Dove. Well, you could just keep spackling on the old age.

Sure. Just put Austin Butler in like... Listen, I... All I'll say, this was never real. No one was going to let me do any of it. But I was like, Tommy Lee Jones actually is... Well, this was like six years ago, but I was trying to convince people with Tommy Lee Jones then

was the age that Call is in streets of Florida. So you could still do it, you were like... He could do it. And also famously easy to work with. Him and horses. And I'd be like, hello! I went to a Quaker school. What did you do? Oh, Harvard.

That's cool. Is that a real horse? Sir? Why are we doing? I like French mystery shows. Taylor Sheridan shows. did change my ideas about masculinity. He wrote the intro to the new edition of Lungs of Dove.

I am aware, brother. I'm across that. A couple people sent that my way. Andy, great to see you, dude. Hey. Let's figure out a way to podcast later this week. I know that I'm on the road, but I want to do Pitt with you. Okay.

Thanks to Kai and Kai. Happy birthday to Kai. Was there anything we didn't cover that we should have covered for your birthday, Kai? How can we better celebrate it? I would have loved to touch on the summer house drama, Just a little bit. That's for After Dark.

Can I say something perhaps unsurprising to get us going? Sure. I have no idea what anybody's talking about. Absolutely. I saw there was some stuff about... I got some inside information for you. What do you got?

Great. I'm not going to share it on the podcast. Were you saving it for Ringer Dish? What are you doing? No, I just... I'll tell Kyle off mic. That's the best birthday present you could possibly give me.

I just saw that everything was about Sierra. But not Ciarah. But not... Russell Wilson, Ciar. That's only... There's only one Ciarahra in my book. One Ciar... Ooh, Sierra month.

It kind of is Sierra Month now. That would Sierra Month. Thanks everybody for listening and watching. We'll be back on Thursday with the pit and some Top Chef and some whatever else. Greenwald, hold it down while I'm in the Bay. Yeah, what do I have to do? Nothing. Just meet me here at 2 p.m. when I get back from the Bay.

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