The Watch - Thoughts on ‘Folklore,’ the ‘Tenet’ Dilemma, and Rediscovering Sitcoms

Episode Date: July 27, 2020

Some thoughts on Taylor Swift’s surprise album ‘Folklore’ and the art of a quarantine album release (9:01). ‘Tenet’ perfectly encapsulates the dilemma much of pop culture is currently facing (24:31). Plus, rediscovering the simple pleasure of sitcoms (34:21) and discussing how ‘Palm Springs’ is a high-quality hangout movie (52:49). Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of The Watch is brought to you by an American pickle. An American Pickle stars Seth Rogen as a 1920s factory worker, Herschel Greenbaum, and his great-grandson, Ben. When Herschel falls into a vat of pickles, he is perfectly preserved for 100 years and emerges in present-day Brooklyn. An American pickle tells the uniquely heartwarming story of Herschel and Ben as they learn the meaning of family. Stream the new Max original on American Pickle, August 6th, only on HBO Max, rated PG-13. I ain't sports to have to clear the room Stand up and walk now

Hello and welcome to The Watch My name is Chris Ryan I am an editor at the ringer.com And joining me on the other line Extremely Boney Verve voice It's in the green world You've been workshopping that? I like it What's up, baby? It's Folklore Monday

So here we are in America Things going great Little house cleaning I don't think it's a video podcast this week necessarily, but Chris is changing things a lot. Chris now has a living plant wall behind him, which I think is great, and I would like to talk about your gardening during the pandemic,

but I also think people want to know what goes on behind the scenes here. And one thing that happened is the other day, I forgot to take off my little neck mask, my little buff gator thing. Yeah, yeah. And you dragged me. You were like, and I quote,

are you fucking wearing a turtleneck right now? those were words said by you. And then today I tune on. I log on and you look like you are cosplaying as James Franco in the movie where he had to cut his own arm off. Oh, 127 hours. Yeah. No, I think I was trying.

I'm hoping because I got this thing because basically I was doing like a variety of different masks. And now I've got the neck gator thing and it's a liverpool scarf slash face masks. So I can rep the Premier League champions when I'm out and about, you know, listening to cool podcast.

on my AirPods, you know, no free ads. What a new guy you are. I've had a little mask. I've been unlucky with masks. I don't know how our listeners have been doing because for the first few weeks I wore us. So you just decided to stop wearing them? No, no, no, no, please. I am not that guy.

But I did make the mistake of wearing a scream mask for the first few weeks from the motion picture scream. Oh yeah. And like Andre Kirillenko's wife. Did you ever see that? She is one of my favorite ladies, man. So Andre Carolinko used to play for Utah Jazz. and then when he was playing for Brooklyn,

his wife, who's quite a character. AK-47, right? That's his nickname. That was his nickname. His wife one day went to a game just straight up wearing a screen mask, not Halloween, I don't think. And she's a real one, man.

So there's just like these Getty photos of Andra Kirillenko's wife among like a block of people at the, you know, at Barclays or whatever, wearing a screen mask. And I was like, what a legend.

The next mistake I made was wearing a Fidelio mask from eyes white shut, which sends the right message of like, I'm a positive group-oriented guy who, you know, who could be counted on.

Who keeps secrets? I am a vault. The problem was it doesn't cover the mouthful area. You know what I mean? It's really just like a top half of the face, which is not where you're going mask-wise. So shouts to birthday boys Stan Kubrick over the weekend,

but not, not seeing ahead in that one regard. So I'm still, it's a work in progress. I think we're at the point in Quar where I would actually get like half excited to see somebody doing the top half mask like a supermarket. I would definitely just be like what the fuck is your problem. But like, you know, just for the variety. I have to say that, you know, we haven't checked in on this in a while probably for good reason because we are the country's premier pop culture podcast that covers nothing

but pop culture. But, you know, early on I was talking about when I was going on my runs and like, you know, trying to avoid people and I'm wearing a mask and other people weren't wearing masks. Like I think we have pretty good compliance out here in Los Angeles and I'm happy to say that. And I hope we, I just wish we could have universal compliance because then maybe we could have a healthy country again. But the one thing that I am noticing and I don't know if there's like a movement about it or there's been a lot of conversation about it.

But like this sheer contempt of the dudes and I'm sorry, I'm sorry America, it's dudes who just hang the mask off their nose. is just wild to me. I had this sort of casually on when this podcast started, just so listeners understand, we record indoors. But I had to my kind of like hanging off my, and Kai is like, you're supposed to cover your nose. Yeah, Kai is the only responsible voice on this podcast.

I just feel like that is so dripping with contempt. Just like don't wear it at all, you know? I just don't wear it. Like, let us know who you are. Don't just give me the nose. I went and got Dintai Fung last night, which is a great dumplings place. I mean, it's an understatement to say it's a great dumplings place.

That is a wild scene out in front of Dintai Fung. Yo, they're just like cats just straight out like just smoking outside of Dintai Fung. Yeah. Yeah. There is Dintai Fung to know a phenomenal, yeah, great dumplings. They have locations all over the world. I think you and I both have been known to frequent the one in Glendale. I have not been to the ones all over the world in a while.

Yeah. No, and probably won't for a while. But I had a conversation with someone earlier who said that they were free at a certain time, except not at 3 o'clock because she had a business call with someone in Japan. And I went, aw, just because it was nice to hear about people in the world doing things. Anyway, so free ad, free ad. Dintai Fung's food is fantastic, great food, delicious. They also seem to have a very regimented.

They were right on top of things. Like they had a nice sanitary contactless pickup and they had plexiglass and everybody seems very organized. Except the American desire to just greet organization with just contempt and apathy is just, it used to happen when airlines would be like, please line up in these rows. And everyone would be like, no, I'm not going to do that. I'm going to form just a giant hive around you. Now, if you go to Glendale, everyone is so.

swarming on the sidewalk with a degree of insouciance I haven't seen since the parking lot of the vet for the voodoo lounge tour in 1994. Like, seriously, next time I go to pick up my soup dumplings, I wouldn't be surprised to see just dudes handing out whippets. Like, it is so gully out there. Yeah, I know. And it's just like, ruining this. You're ruining it.

It's just like, you get there, you're just like, why are the warboys from Fury Road, from Fury Road standing outside of this dumpling place? And I was like, excuse me, are you here too to pick up noodles? And he's like, no, I'm a blood bag. Like, I'm just here to fuel these guys. I promise we're going to get to pop culture stuff. We want to talk about the Taylor record. We want to talk about a couple of trailers for stuff.

In our defense, we've been littering this litany of healthy old guy complaints with pop culture references. Important references like Mad Max Fury Road released in 2016 and Rolling Stones album Voodoo Lounge released 26 years ago. So we're still on it. I was curious, what kind of guy are you? If you were zone four in an air, for a plane, if you're boarding zone four, and they are, are you like, I'm going to sneak in at the end of three when nobody else is lining up for three? Oh, Chris, you beautiful boy. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I hold up my children like Mulder and Scully with their feds badges.

And I'm like, I need to get on this plane first. and they're like, sir, this is the captain. I'm like, it's going to take me longer than it's going to take him. I need a lot of room to work. I got an eye pad to set up. I got headphones to disentangle. How old do they get to be before you can't do that anymore? How many were yours there?

I'm going to find out. Yeah. I'm going to find out. I'm going to be like a 15-year-olds. Dude, I'm going to be like, this girl needs to go to her college tour back east. She needs to board now with the infants. Andy, it is truly nice to see you. I have to tell you a little bit about what happened with me on Friday night,

and this is getting into the traditional watch fair. Today, we have a grab bag of stuff of new stuff, and we're going to have a conversation about sitcoms in a little bit. But I had a really nice experience on Friday. Oh, good. A little bit of time outside of the house. It was very nice to get some physical exercise with some... Good to get the sun on your nose.

Yes. just a real singed my lips. I got home and my wife got a pizza. I cracked open a beverage. And my wife was like, can I play you my favorite songs off of the Taylor record? Oh, here we go. And for the first time in a long time,

I felt a little bit of the outside world kind of disappear a little bit. Wow. And we kind of just had this great evening of hanging out in our living room listening to the album. And I think that I am on the record of not that anybody is keeping track of being pretty pro-Taylor as an artist and pretty could not give less of a shit about like her whole public persona and her being like a football that people like pull back and forth about like whether or not she's being sincere or whether she's completely cynical or whether or not she's like, you know, she seems like a, like, I have no opinion about it, basically.

But I do like her music and really enjoyed 1989. I have a lot of time for a lot of her songs. And just found myself caught up in like the much missed feeling of a like quasi-cultural moment that I feel like I think a lot of people for whether or not they were hate listening or they were just sincerely enjoying it, spend some time. with this record because it came out in such a way where it was like, hey, I'm putting a record out tonight. And it was like, oh, shit, Taylor's going to put a record out. Hey, I'm putting a record out tonight. And Aaron Dessner from the National and Jack Anatoff produced it and Boni Vares on it. And people were like, what? And it was kind of like almost, I thought, the perfectly executed surprise rollout in some ways, because it didn't, the time from when it was announced to when it was actually released was just enough time for people to get some jokes off, but not to get

super cynical about it. So that when it came out, I feel like people approached it with relatively open ears. I was curious, though, I mean, like, we can talk about the record itself, but did you, did you enjoy the kind of, like, the moment? Yeah. I mean, I think that one positive thing is a kind of retreat from a very entrenched position of jadedness about cultural events or about cultural properties. I think that one thing that has happened, and this is a general statement that I'm just kind of cobbling together on the fly, but I think that people's personal enjoyment of things, whether it's their favorite TV shows or movies or records, remains a constant and is maybe at an all-time high because we have so many wonderful choices available to us in our lives,

even during a time of quarantine. But the public performance of that enjoyment or fandom has become extremely radicalized, right? Where if it's something that you're a fan of, you will be able to avail yourself of thousands of, you know, quick blog posts or tweets or hive minds of support. Or you can flip to the other channel and be like, see it eviscerated like it's in the Coliseum and Joaquin Phoenix just gave you the thumb. down. The return of certain things, like an album, a quarantine album, like, oh, here's something I just did for you. I think artists have always said, oh, I did this for my fans, but now it really feels a

lot more intimate in that regard. But also just things like, you know, something we're going to touch on a little bit later that we missed last week, which was like the happy endings reunion that a sitcom that you and I love just did for charity, a new episode on Zoom and on YouTube. It's like they did do it for us, you know, and they're available to do it for us, and it feels good. So my feelings, and I appreciate you bringing up this topic this way, because while I know everybody tunes in to hear two 40-year-old dude's opinion of a new Taylor Swift album, I do have opinions. I will also say that the presence of the national, that's our way. Yes, that is true.

As 40-something white guys, I do think that we have. Wait, my God, they're playing our music, and it was orchestrated by Bryce Dessner. That's true. So we are in on this one. That's a great point. Do you think younger people, when they listen to this album, they hear an acapella album?

Does the National only broadcast on a frequency that old, old dogs can hear? That's right. It's good. It's possible. But I appreciate you bringing it up in this way

because I am a fan of Taylor Swift. I'm a fan of this project. I was delighted when it was announced. I'm not a fan of the album. Uh-huh. And if you'd like, we could splash around in that river that runs between those two points of view. Let me ask you something. How many times have you listened to it?

A bunch. I listen to it. I listen to it, you know, again, one of the benefits of living on the West Coast is those album drops at 9 p.m., which is primo time for your boys. Yeah, right. I listened to it when it came out. And then I listened to it kind of throughout the day Friday and then spent some time with it in the car with, with my kids who are very excited, but also had the most trenchant critical analysis of it,

which was, I like Taylor Swift songs that start quiet like this, but then they explode. And I was like, yeah, there's not a lot of explosions on this one. Me too, pop to miss daughter.

Me too. I think that there is something to be said for, I, you know, obviously when somebody is like, well, I checked it out and didn't like it. You know,

and you're like, well, did you give it a few spins? You know, because like, I think clearly, now more than ever, people are probably a little bit on shuffle with their

cultural kind of intake. So it's like if you don't like something after a few minutes, there's only a million other things for you to dip your toes into. And the first time through on the Taylor record, I was just kind of like, man, I'm just like not in the right headspace for like plaintiff seemingly one note in terms of its dynamics music. You're just trying to see about this pizza. But when I came, but when I was just chilling out

and we actually took a couple a lapse around it, I actually really started to enjoy it and really started to pick out different ones that I loved. And even the ones that I thought were a little like overly tweeve for my personal sensibilities, I was still kind of interested in even just like the chances she was taking on songs like even like Last American Dynasty where it's like, oh, she's really going for it with this like story song bit. That's a tough hang that one. So why do you think it's a tough hang? Do you think it's a tough hang because it's like it's toned or because it's just not a fun, like not a cool song to listen to it?

No, I mean, look, I was going to say this even before I knew how you wanted to frame this conversation. But the last thing I want to do is poison anyone's pleasure, especially during a pandemic. Like, this album is making people very happy. It's giving people company. And for a lot of people, this seems to be what they wanted and needed, not just from Taylor Swift, but from a record at this moment that they're sharing. And I really respect that, especially now. I would say that

I think it's running up against two things for me. One is quiet and regretful and pensive is not a headspace I want to spend more time in this particular moment in American history. Sure. I prefer, I mean, since we're doing this, if we had to choose one visionary, successful female singer-songwriter who made a quarantine album

and all the songs are in lowercase, I prefer Charlie X-E-Xs because it approaches it from more of a position of like experimentation and play. Like I can't go out, so I'm just going to go exploring here. So that's just kind of my headspace. The second thing is I always get a little itchy when artists who do some of their best work as expansive extroverts are like, you know what? Now we're going to press pause and get serious. And the only way to get serious is to get Bryce Destiner doing orchestrations. It's not that there's anything wrong with it because her pop sensibility.

and her taste are so strong that these little, like, melodies and vocal things that that I don't think I've fully appreciated yet continue to bubble up, even in a kind of burbling middle sonic stew that's happening on a lot of these songs. Yeah. It's that, um... That bloodbuzz, Ohio vibe. Actually, I wish it was more Bloodbuzz, Ohio. Yeah.

Me too. Me too. It's definitely more like, uh, um, what's it called? Sleep well beast than it is trouble will find me if you want to, if you want to talk my language. But it's just more that she has earned the right to try to do anything. I don't think this is necessarily her lane, her best lane. I think that even when she was kind of a singer-songwriter, budding singer-songwriter country act, her best songs were absolutely universal.

Like love story or something is maybe quieter compared to when she was doing dubstep breaks on red. But it's still like, I am going for. for your jugular in terms of the context, in terms of the emotion, and in terms of the chorus, it's every single time. Now, that can be exhausting, I'm sure, both for artists and fan, but it's just a little too navel-gazy for me for an artist who I just think she does better not looking at her own navel, that's all.

I thought it was cool that, you know, this is clearly a record made with no intention to tour around stadiums. A lot of people have made that point, but, like, this was the kind of record that you can make when you know she put out lover and that was obviously going to be something she was going to massively tour behind and then I think putting this record out is like very savvy in some ways because she's like you know I'm not going to be expected to go play mirror ball to 35,000 people in in a stadium somewhere like maybe she would do like a smaller venues tour at some point but this is like a very like smart thing to do

when there's no pressure to then execute it in a live setting on the scale of what she's always done. I also like the fact that eight records in or whatever it is, she's kind of allowing herself to be prolific in a way that I wish more artists would. I wish more artists would do left turns here and there. And I think that she's... I like this idea a lot.

And she's like that's what I sort of enjoyed when I was growing up. when bands would put out like an EP right after an album of like here's a couple of weird sketches that we did that we didn't know what to do with and they didn't fit on the record but here's a four song EP or surprise we have another album 11 months later.

I wonder whether or not and knowing her I wouldn't be surprised if she was inspired by a band like the 1975 who do seem to be trying to chase the dragon a little bit when it comes to we know we've hit this creative vein we want to put as much stuff out as possible while we're young, while we still have everybody's attention.

And just like a lot of bands before them, I'm sure that they will eventually hit an oversaturation point. But you can see that, like, doing stuff like that is how you become someone's obsession, you know? I think that's such a great point. And I think that it is the point that only 2 40-year-old guys can contribute to this conversation genuinely, because I think that what it helps do is slow it down,

take a step back, and consider something as part of an artist's career. Like, this will be someone's favorite Taylor Swift album. either now or in 20 years and it fits in with all the others. And thinking of it as part of that, like some hits, some misses, but it makes for a fascinating and multi-faceted career, that's absolutely dead on and terrific.

I think part of my reaction is, you know, I love, like I think August, for example, like that goes on her, that goes on her greatest hits record as far as I'm concerned. Like that's just a phenomenal song.

But I always do get kind of itchy when you see like Jack Antonoff, who, who we love, a friend of the pod, I think we'll be back on at some point, tweeting like, you know, my tears ricochet is the greatest song that Taylor's ever written, the best work we've ever done together or whatever.

And I'm like, dude, you made Cruel Summer. Like, Cruel Summer off of Lover is one of the best pop songs of the last decade. Like, that's probably the best Taylor Swift song. I'm just going to go ahead and say it. I think it's a masterpiece, and she made that with Jack and with St. Vincent. But because it is, you know,

kind of a synthy, mannered pop song, it's still, I think, 20 years into optimism, I still think people are like, oh, she's strumming a guitar on this one, so she means it more. And I still get itchy about that.

You know what it would be? I just think that there wouldn't be this big of a deal if Taylor Swift, capital T, capital S was a band, and this was the Taylor Swift solo record. That's cool. Yeah, I get that. The other thing that I want to say that it's awesome about it,

and I think it's something that you and I always agree about. when we see it. I love when high culture, low culture, popular culture, independent culture, underground culture. I love when there are lines of communication open between them. And it's not just that Taylor puts a national song on her Spotify tour playlist or whatever. She calls up dude and it's just like, let's see what's up. Yeah. What have you got? Let's do something. And it reminds you that for as mannered and controlled and megalomaniacal as pop stardom can be, that's still possible.

Let's send each other a voice memo or send each other some chords and see what happens. You know, it's, I love that stuff. And sometimes the results are fascinating and sometimes they're brilliant and sometimes they're just weird misfire. I mean, do you know what I was thinking when I was looking at the credits for this record? I was remembering that Noah Baumbach and Greta Gerwig wrote a script for a Barbie movie. Why? Just because, I mean, do you remember when Greta Gerwig wrote that, how I met your

mother sequel. She was starring in it. She didn't write it. But she was working on it. She was going to be like a producer on it as well, I think. That's true. But I just think that's great. I don't like it when things are stratified. You know, I think it's pretty interesting when the lines cross. And sometimes maybe the lines shouldn't cross, such as when Justin Vernon

fucking just walks up to the mic to the middle of track. You don't like when big bone just drops like the harmonies? How do you not like exile? Oh my God, that song is incredible. Yeah, I don't know. To go back to what I was saying before about the cultural moment, I think the only thing that was bittersweet about this was we've kind of just been kicking around the idea of Tenet coming out and how it shouldn't.

And I think there's obviously a lot of conversation going on right now about like maybe they shouldn't be playing baseball at all. And yet at the same time, I think, both things can be true. You can understand why those things shouldn't happen. But when something like this kind of hits, you're like, oh, this is what I do. This is like, this is what I've done with my like life for the last like 20 years for the most part is when something like this comes along. I like have a really good time talking about it with my friends and and thinking about it. It's so funny that you say that in that way because I felt the same way when I had the chance, probably the only chance this

year to see the Phillies lose to the Marlins in spectacular fashion. I'm like, this is how I've spent the last 20 years of my life. That's right. Watching this stupid result happen with these dumb teams. Nature is healing by pulling me into a pile of quickstand. Do you, since you mentioned it, and we haven't talked about it ever on the podcast, I know that it's well covered on other excellent Ringer podcasts, certainly the big picture, but today's news that, okay, so Tenet now is going to kind of come out internationally and

then maybe come here in Labor Day? Like, should we weigh in on this at all? Because I'm curious where your head is at. I, as someone who doesn't go to the movies, do feel intense nostalgia. Like, boy, it would be fun as someone who doesn't go regularly but feels the loss of it to go see a movie. And I understand why the tenant piece of it is extra complicated. It's not just that it's Christopher Nolan, who's very powerful and controlling with how he wants his movies to be seen and all respect to him for that. It's also that Christopher Nolan movies hold such a special place in the,

the hearts and minds and wallets of everyone involved in Hollywood because he is a big budget IP franchise unto himself. He's one of the few people who can open a movie that is not Avengers related. And so they're desperately trying to hold on to that because if he slips to the other side, then what have they got? I get all of that. But at the same time, much like continuing a baseball season, it just seems crazy to me. It just seems crazy to me. Yeah, I mean, the idea of people trying to fly to Vancouver to see this movie is, absurd. I just think we fucked up, man. I think that if we had just, I don't know whether or not,

I mean, debating about whether or not 10, it should or shouldn't come out or whether it will or won't come out is not obviously one in the top thousand of our problems. But I think it's indicative of if we had just, there was such a huge wave of announcements where people were like the Fast, Fast and the Furious movie next year. All these movies are moving to next year or the and then the movies that were moved to the fall are going to be moved into the next year as well. It's going to be an absolutely bonkers, 2021, assuming that we can go to movies then.

But I do think that, like, a little bit of our problem was not just sort of accepting a real hard, this is going to be a summer of being in lockdown so that we can kind of, I mean, I don't want to get into this because I'm not an expert, but I just do feel like a lot of the half measures that happened are why we are where we are.

and I wish almost all of this stuff have been taken off the negotiating table in the first place. The weird, it's going to keep moving every two weeks thing. I don't know whether, that obviously probably has like corporate and financial ties that I don't understand

in terms of keeping movie theater chains in business because of the prospect of having a blockbuster movie hit with no other competition. I remember, you know, back in May, I think, being like, is Tenet coming out in like two, 10 days? Like, are we doing this? And I kind of, I kind of think that maybe it would have been better for

everybody involved if it was like, no. I mean, for the sake of everybody, let's just like close the movie theaters and let's figure out a way to keep them in business. Well, yeah. I mean, we are not virologists. We are not experts. Obviously, I think that if we were doing a more podcast in that direction, I think, yeah, the answer is you shut everything down and pay people not to work and then you get better, but we're not doing that. And to make it about pop culture again, I think a lot about the Ron Swanson quote from Parks and Recreation about,

you know, never half-ass anything. You have to whole ass stuff. And that is something that, and I guess I wonder, is that a particularly American failing that we just kind of always want to half-ass it? Like,

just hold the carrot, dangle the carrot out a little bit, do as little as possible, get the short-term results, you know, and we'll worry about the long-term results later. Is that, inextricably entwined with the version of capitalism that we engage in in the pop culture

in the pop culture field and including everything else and it because we've been having these conversations about how these streaming services have been launching with certain amount of content and we're seeing things like HBO Max is launching with uh all the Harry Potter movies for 10 days you know what I mean it's just like let's just get over this let's get over the launch deal with it later and then and then what but then it's you know it's tomorrow's problem and that And that's what this whole thing does feel like. It's unfortunate that a movie that should rise and fall on its own merits and just have its own experience has become the carrot for an entire industry.

And it's still dangling. Yeah. I don't want to tie too much of this to Tenet and to Christopher Nolan, because Christopher Nolan's a filmmaker that I love. And Tenet is a movie I can't wait to see. I just think that there's something about, I've seen this happen with a bunch of different things in sports as well. and I just don't know.

I mean, the short-term gains thing is a really interesting point. I hadn't really thought about it like that because I think that a lot of, there's a lot of American exceptionalism and stuff built up in our national mythology about this idea that we do what's necessary and we do what it takes and stuff like that

and it's just clearly we don't. Nope. And so yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Is that the end of the podcast? That's it. We're done. No, so I don't know where we go from here, but it'll be interesting to see how

they handle this. It'll be interesting to see if they put this out in Canada. I mean, it's just going to be... It just seems so crazy because at least today's announcement that they are going to open it in certain places begins to reflect some of the reality on the ground, which is that you can't have... I mean, this is where the political stuff does come into what we tend to talk about on this podcast, right, which is you can say that you're opening in an economy without worrying about health, but no one's going to go. You know, and it... it's been so telling that a lot of the most reliable information about outbreaks and hot zones or whatever we're calling them has been tracked to consumer spending data from credit card companies.

Yes. And, you know, people are making predictions on whether, you know, cities that are horribly affected in the Sunbelt might be plateauing because they see that the Chase whatever accounts stops spending money, basically, or stopped having restaurant spending or bars or whatever at a certain point a couple weeks ago. And that's the thing with movie theaters. It's like I get that there are a couple of popcorn cowboys who are just like, I would sacrifice my body to see John David Washington travel through time or whatever the movie's about. Unclear.

But the majority of people aren't going to go see it. So sooner we start saying that, I feel like the better will be. Yeah, I agree. Just shut out. Listen to cardigan, my dudes. Let's just just fucking hang back and listen to Boney Bear Order a pizza like my guy did

We're going to take a quick break And when we come back We're going to talk a little bit about sitcoms Today's episode of The Watch Is brought to you by Umbrella Academy On Netflix. Umbrella Academy is coming back to Netflix For its second season

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All right, we're back. We're back. And I got to, I got to, I got to, I got to on ramp some listeners into this next segment. So I don't even know what brought me here, but I was doing some, like Googling, some exploring of the internet. And I saw something that kind of caught my eye, which was something about the NBC hit sitcom superstore. Were you wandering through the birdcage? Were you in the peacock zone? Not even. I think I saw something referring to it.

Oh, you know what it was? I think it was like a FYC panel was tweeted about or something that cast at a Zoom. So I was like, oh, yeah, the show. And the other thing I know from being under contract with NBC Universal Shine Heartwig is that because Superstore is one of their flagship shows and films on the lot, that they were using the Superstore stage basically to begin to develop and then showcase their COVID protocols for when and when and if they get to film again. So all this was in my head. But I was like, here's the thing about this show Superstore. No disrespect to it. I was like,

it's very popular. People really like it. And I've never seen it. Now, I'll just admit that blind spot. This is a post TV critic role blind spot of mine. And I was like, maybe that's something I should check out. Let me just hit the old wiki. And that was when I discovered that this show has been on since 2015 and is nearing 100 episodes and it blew my mind. So as I often do, Chris can say possibly too often

when things blow my mind in almost any sphere of conversation. I text him, text my guy. And I was like, can you effing believe this about the show? And there was a pause. The dots appeared. And I thought Chris was like

pressing pause on his A3 watch of 0-00 to like chime in and be like, yeah, that's crazy. Like America has crazy taste. And instead, calmly and soberly, he delivered the news. Yes, I think I've seen every episode of that. Yeah, more or less. I am totally blown away here.

He then followed up with an extra suplexer, other word I pretended to know when Breyer Patch was on after wrestling, and said, yeah, we've seen every episode of Bless This Mess, too. And it's on so many different levels. Shocking to me. One is, this will be no surprise to the listeners, maybe even less of a surprise than when I admitted I wasn't a virologist moments ago. If I see something, I say something.

Shout to the New York subway system. I don't have the luxury of just like pleasure watching a couple TV shows just for me. If I've seen a television show or a movie, you guys know about it. Chris, the living TV concierge. Wait, that just has a whole other regime. Do we have a lot of ghost TV concierge? You don't even talk about it. You've just been watching this show, just for you, just on the side.

Here's the thing. It's wild. I think you have, you do have TV critic, Braden, a little bit. Okay. I would like to tell you about how much effort it takes to watch Superstore. None. It takes 22 minutes. Mm-hmm.

which usually happens in the somewhere in the 48 minutes before I go to sleep. We watch a sitcom. It's a very relaxing, easygoing way to end my day. I have done this with many sitcoms over the years. I don't think I've necessarily kept this a secret from you. But television is at least historically, has supposed to be for pleasure. And easy watching and almost like a, Television is the original second screen experience.

It is the second screen to whatever the hell else is going on in your life or whatever you are doing in the evening. The idea of TV being this like, well, time to watch 41 hours of Yellowstone. Like, that's new. That is recent, man. And like, even back when people were watching LA law for 22 hours a year, they had a long time to get through that. That was once a week. And they spread it out from fall to spring.

bring. So the idea of watching Superstory is like, is a very low effort and low investment thing on my time. Now, I know that you have little ones, you have lots of things going on. I don't even look at it as like part of like the TV watching gig that I've given myself. I think of it is more of just like at night if I don't feel like reading my wife and I watch a sitcom. I admire and respect the hell out of it. I have to say that I, realized that that's just a part of my media diet. Absolutely. And I watched a good place. But other than that, and you could argue that that's not what we're talking about, honestly, because that was so very much of the time and was much more concentrated and deeply serialized. It wasn't just a dip in and dip out kind of show. But I realized that kind of missed it.

And part of this is rehashing elements of the conversation we had about Pee's and it's streaming channels within its service and how it's just sort of pleasurable to just stumble into something. And that is kind of, I think we wanted a little off reservation in terms of like what kind of TV we're making and what kind of TV people want to watch, especially now. But just purely on like an aesthetic level, I want to talk about this happy endings reunion and I watched it. And it's so good.

And it's so funny. And it's such. it's funny in a it's funny the skill set involved in making the show from a performer and this is just a version of it on Zoom but from the like the crafting and polishing of just the fifth

throwaway joke in one run for these brilliant comedic performers to perform for me like I felt like I went to I felt like I'd go into a chamber music concert or something like an art form that wasn't part of my daily life anymore but oh my God it was on such a high level

and I just kind of forgotten that And that's on me. That's a huge bummer and ridiculous and wildly out of step with America, which kind of is my brand. So I'm okay with it. But guys, like, you know, you guys remember how much Chris and I loved happy endings on ABC. And we even talked about it a little with Sam in our decade end podcast. But I'm watching this like half hour on YouTube. And I felt winded at a certain point from the jokes.

And I paused it to catch my breath. and it had only been five minutes. Yeah. There were like 27 minutes of just punching you in the face with jokes to go. And it made my day. You know, you were asking me, you were expressing surprise that that Superstore had gone, been on for five years and been 100 episodes. And I was thinking about something that Rob McElheny was saying about,

It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, another show that I've seen. I don't know if I've seen every episode of It's Always Sunny, but I've seen a lot of Sunny. There are a lot of episodes. And also never feel the need to be like completely up to date. Like sometimes I'll skip ahead or back or whatever. But he said he had had a conversation with Larry David. And I think it was whether he,

I think he was referring to curb. And he was just like, just don't end it. What's the like, what's the point? Like you guys don't need to make some sort of hard, well, this is it that we've got to bring this show to a close. You could come back to it in two years. you could come back to it in three years, you could come back to it in 10 years,

you could do it once every nine months, if you want. And obviously, you know, Curb is on this kind of hot heater right now and after having some downtime. And I think that there is, the one thing I thought when I was watching happy endings is I just wish it had never gone away. You know, I wish happy endings had just been,

that was like a rep theater that they returned to whenever they could to make six episodes or four episodes or a special. and that was one of the first this has to get saved shows. I remember when that was getting, was it going off the air. It was right as Netflix and Hulu

and all these other streaming services were really emerging as a possible second home for these places. Happy endings like is available on Hulu now. Like I, I desperately wish it had been, it was just something that was still on because they clearly,

clearly still have their stuff, man. They have incredible stuff. Also, the people who worked on the show, I mean, one of the, someone who emerged as one of the headwriters over the course of that show was Prentice Penny, who now runs insecure. I mean, it has quite the bench. And it came close to getting saved.

I believe my old chums at the USA Network almost saved it. I don't know what happened at the end. I mean, it is a sign of like, it's easier to be like, oh, here are the bad guys in this thing and save my show. Like the Baroque ownership structures of a lot of this stuff and the costs like just sometimes sink stuff. It's just easier to save some shows than others. And that is a huge shame.

But I agree with you. I think the one thing that this proved is your point that like it is just rep theater and let these guys just cook sometimes. Like I think that because we live in like an eventized cultural moment, the thing that would stop shows from coming back would be like, well, why? It has to be the key story. It has to be the most crucial thing. Like otherwise, what's the point?

because thank God we somehow emerged from this unscathed or it has people have fond memories about it. Like the Parks and Rec reunion was another great example because I thought that was just delightful and near note perfect. And I'm good. You know, I don't need them to make more of them. It would maybe be nice for them to make more of them someday, but they don't need to. Similarly with this, like, obviously a global pandemic is a big event for them to riff on, but they didn't even need to be in the same room for the show to work. Yeah.

So it's kind of like, why not? How many seasons of parks were there? Six or six. Some were shorter than others, but I think around there. Yeah, because I remember fondly the moment, like, the parks kind of midpoint, where they had sort of figured out who Leslie was and figured out, like, how things worked on the show. But I do remember kind of like a turn towards the end with parks where they were like, A, it was incredibly saccharine, and not in a terrible way, but it was just like, overrelease.

And then it was like the end game. And it was one of those things where he were just like, Parks and, I don't need end game from Parks and Rec. You know what I mean? The thing about Parks that kind of set it apart, I think in a good way, was that Mike sure was, he perfected it later with Good Place, but he was throwing every, he was leaving nothing on the whiteboard between seasons. I mean, every season felt like a season finale or series finale. And he kept things moving and changing rapidly because he was responding to, I mean, he said this in interviews. He said it on this podcast once, that like, the office was obviously an influence because

that's what he had just worked on, but so was the wire because that's what he had just been watching. So that was always meant to be a little more serialized, I think, than something like happy endings, which is just these six people just turned up to 11. There's a thing for people who, anyways, it was done for charity for charities. We care a lot about. World Central Kitchen was one, and Color of Change is another. And in addition to having this episode, which is available to watch on YouTube, if you haven't already, there is also a reunion Zoom conversation that was put up simultaneously. And one of the

first questions in it that I really appreciated was to the creator David Caspby who said, and the question was like, the show is probably more popular now than it was when it was on because of streaming on Hulu and, you know, it's discovered a whole new audience. And how does that make you feel? And he said, angry. Yeah. Which I really appreciate. It just makes them angry because you don't, nobody wants to be remembered well. You want to be, you want to be appreciated in your time and get to keep going. And the thing that I would want out of happy endings isn't, I mean, I'd be happy to have like five or six or another special or whatever. But what I enjoyed was happy endings being on 15 however many, you know, like those first two seasons, I think there was 20, 20 episodes or at least of those. I would love nothing more than for a show to achieve that kind of equilibrium where it's just like, yeah, the show's just like a part of my life and it's on for 20 weeks of the year. And I have it. And if I want to watch five at once, I'll wait. And if I'll wait. And if I'm, I want to watch it every week, I'll do that. It's really interesting. One thing that's not often talked about, but is naturally flowing

from this conversation, which is it's not always just what audiences want in any given point, but there is quite a large gulf and disconnect between what some stars and actors want and what some creators want. And getting those all in sync can be challenging, but it's worth doing. And what I mean by that is everybody knows at this point that, like, one of the reasons for the great influx of movie stars into television was the emergence of the emergence of the event series or the limited series. A one-season deal. What's the big difference?

You're getting paid a ton and you're doing basically movie-length shoot and then you're done. And you've done this and maybe you get an Emmy like McCona Hay did or whatever. But there are other actors, wonderful actors, actors I got to work with and actors that I've talked to. They are kind of sick of this prestige limited event series because they want to have a job. They just kind of want to go to work like regular folks and send their kids to school and see them. You know, and this is messing up their life goals and plans. And similarly, there are people who write, who make shows who are like, boy, I want security too. But there are others.

I was just talking to a writer the other day about something. And I was saying, yeah, this could go like, you know, this could go multiple seasons. This could go three or five seasons. And she was like, I'm sorry, I'm going to stop you there. What? Like, I'm busy. Because they didn't want it to go that long? Oh, right.

Because they want to be involved in five, six different things and not have to. to like worry about running a show for happening. So obviously when you start something, people aren't always where they are when it ends. But when I saw our old pal, Adam Pally, earlier this year when he was promoting the NBC show he had with Stephen Weber and friend Dresher and Abby Elliott, and I was like, how's it going?

And he was like, this is a dream. He's like, I could do this for the rest of my life. He's like, and he wanted to because you go to work. And you work with good people and you like them and you enjoy yourself and you have a fun time. And then you have room in the office. season to do something silly or crazy or whatever. That's a goal. And it's hard to get those things to align. There is a natural entropy for shows. I definitely think that, and especially for sitcoms,

like, it's rare that the last three seasons of a sitcom are as strong as the middle or beginning three seasons. You know, friends, how I met your mother, I mean, think of any long-running sitcom. Curb is pretty unique in that. It's doing that, but I also think curb is driven by a different, has a different engine than a lot of sitcoms do. Personal spite and malice. Outside of sitcoms themselves, you know, I think last week, it was announced that Perry Mason would have been renewed for season two, which is not that

surprising. HBO tends to read. And once you got on board? I think it helped. I think I think I gave Perry the push. That's a show that needs to be on for multiple seasons. There is no point in having a limited series Dark Perry Mason origin story. Like, nobody wants that. We want to see Matthew Reese as lawyer Perry Mason.

And I would love to see him throughout the, you know, the 1940s or whatever we, however long they want to do this or however many time jumps they might want to do with it. I would love nothing more than to see like, no, I would love lots of things more. But it would be cool. Perry Mason seems like a show that might be really good in its third season. Everyone listening right now is like, I heard Chris say that he hopes tenant never comes out. And that Perry Mason goes on forever. As long as Perry Mason is there to.

entertain me for multiple seasons of noir Los Angeles. That's right. Explorations. Do you think people want to hear how I watched Palm Springs this weekend? Are people ready for three months swooping in off the top rope? You just said, I will alert our listeners if I watch anything. Yeah, okay. So everything is content.

And you can also safely assume that, yes, I have watched it too. Oh, I know you did. I know. So everything is content. people know I'm enjoying foodie love the terribly named Spanish show I saw some people wondering what it was it's on your HBO max or whatever

it's on go for like four more days you are can I tell you something you are the crown prince of many people are saying I think someone says that a little bit more than I do yeah you are very good at being like I found this weird obscure food show and then like get two tweets about it

and you're like look the streets the streets want more foodie love content What I meant is, I don't know how many people listen to our show. Like, maybe eight people listen, in which case, 25% of them took to Twitter to be like, what was Andy talking about? Yeah. And I'd like to help those people. Sure.

You know what I do? Rather than use divisive name calling like you just did and comparing me to someone, what I'd like to say is I am just uniquely catering to my base. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, I don't worry about swing voters who might support the CR agenda. Do you want to take a cognitive test? I've never seen an elephant in my life.

There was not one on Briar Patch. What I want to say is that I am here for the, I assume, sevens of people who want to talk about Top of the Lake Season 2, who want to talk about foodie love, and have contrary opinions about records produced by the Desner Brothers, I guess. Speaking of those people, like me, I know my base. no, no, we didn't all flock to Hulu when the film Palm Springs was released a couple weeks ago.

That's right. No, we had other things to attend to. We don't, we don't just go with the herds of, I want to say, elephants. We don't. Maybe we watched it this weekend like I did. Uh-huh. And because it was the thing I watched, I'm going to tell you about it. Let's do it.

I love this movie. I love this movie. I don't actually have much more to add other than the fact that it wasn't just nice for quarantine times to have like a enjoyable, pleasurable, smart, clever, fun film to watch just hand delivered to us. And I think that it's, even though it was that, and I think it speaks to Hulu and Neon's like really smart strategy. Like they paid the most money ever paid for a movie by 69 cents,

but ever for this at Sundance, right? But that doesn't seem like an overpay for a movie like this, even in a non-quarantine time to go to something like Hulu, for people to just watch and enjoy and hang out with. That seems like a smart play to me, as opposed to overpaying for like a movie that feels really important when you're in the festival,

and then you try to release it in summer and it's just in movie theaters and it gets lost. So that's the business side of it. But you know what I just really, I just really enjoyed, I enjoyed the script and the collision between the script and a performer like Andy Sandberg,

who's really good at a bunch of things and just seems so smart and thoughtful about how he utilizes his abilities. This was a laser-sharp example of someone knowing his skill set, finding great material for it, and bringing out the best of both. And it felt really, really,

it just felt so smart from the decision-making. Obviously, I started with the marketing for some reason, but it felt smart all the way up and down the board, and I really enjoyed watching it. Oh, yeah. I mean, I think that the ingenious part about you were mentioning the deal that they made and whether or not,

we can speculate, about that, but, like, this is also, like, a repeat watch movie. This is definitely a, kind of a early rewatchable. I think some people might get really into the time loops and what happens to the goat and is June Squibb, you know, what's, what's her deal? Not to give away any spoilers. But I think it's definitely something that not only is you could rewatch for time travel stuff, but you could rewatch for the aesthetic. Like, I definitely think people just enjoy the Andy Sandberg in a Hawaiian shirt drinking what looked like to Cate's, but are not, and just hanging out in a pool.

And I just think Kristen Mili Adi is phenomenal and is actually the star of the movie. And they kind of make Andy Sandberg, he almost plays like the Caddyshack era Bill Murray version of himself where he's like,

I don't have to carry this movie emotionally, which I maybe am not quite capable of doing as an actor, but I can just provide all this humor. But it's a great comparison. But he does have something. And what he had in this, it was such a comedic star performance in a way that really surprised me and really impressed me. Because I like him.

Like I was saying at the beginning, like he just think he makes great choices. He's smart. He's funny. You know, I love the Lonely Island stuff. Like the Tour de France. We talked to him, I think, for that Tour de France movie that he did. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, but unlike someone like Will Ferrell, which is why they've had very different careers, like Will Ferrell is just like pure meteor of common. and then when he turns down the dial a little, I think he's an effective actor, but it's not exactly the same thing. There is always an element with some of these burn, white, hot comedic presences that when you lower the flame to simmer, it feel like you're not cooking for the same degree.

Jonah Hill is like that as well. Sandberg, because he has kind of a soulfulness, like just in his, I didn't mean to apply those other guys, those other guys are great. They have soul. I mean, this medium temperature really, really suited him.

And it reminded me of a classic Bill Murray performance in a way because it wasn't too taxing in any direction, but when it was time to be broad, boy, he can deliver. But when it was time to be something else, he was right there. But that also speaks to the framework of the movie where it's like, yes, it's Groundhog Day, but it's a Groundhog Day,

where he's already been doing it. And it's a difference, it's just a little, it's different enough that you buy in quickly. Yeah. And it's a high quality hang. Like it's just the little choices, the aesthetic choices that you're referring to are right. Like everything in it is a choice, the performers, the actors, how they play their parts. The idea of Irvine is some sort of like decent enough purgatory.

But it was so consistent. And I guess part of that is because the writer Andy Sierra went to film school and developed it with the director. So they had a shorthand. But also that the Lonely Island guys got involved and they were like, no, this is what it should be. This is what it should feel like. It just kind of did. I was really impressed. Look at you.

Just loving content in 2020. But right. Like you, I think you talk about this when you've been on the big picture and Sean talks about this a lot. But maybe this moment that we've been going through where it's like, well, what box are these movies going in? And what's the difference? Like, the Irishman is a fucking gangbusters Martin Scorsese miniseriesies.

I mean movie. And, okay, so it's on Netflix because they paid for it. But it's, it's, he didn't do anything different. He just got to do everything. Right. And how does that change our appreciation? for it, Palm Springs to me feels like a medium movie. You know, it feels like a movie that would have done well in a theater and maybe it'll play in theaters at some point. But I certainly

don't feel like it lost anything by not being on screens, but it also didn't feel like a TV show. You know, it in and of itself felt like a genre emerging. Yeah. And it was, it's definitely a story that they, if they had chosen to tell this story over 12 episodes or six episodes, I'd think it would have just gotten tripped over itself. It felt exactly right, which is, yeah, that's how I would describe it. There's a thing, we are so accustomed to seeing characters fall in love.

It's the backbone of almost every filmed entertainment ever. But maybe I just forgotten the efficiency of seeing it done in an hour and a half movie. Yeah. I really didn't need to see more because they chose their moments in that montage of them going nuts in the loop. so well that I was like, yeah, I get it. And Kristen Malayati's so good. I'm like, yeah, they love each other now. Fine. What's next? You know, and that's, that's not how TV works. You know, we're like,

oh, we have these six hours to kind of unpack this relationship. Yeah, let's get the J.K. Simmons's backstory. Yeah, no thanks. Yeah. We can wrap it up there. Nice little show today. Andy, I guess we'll be back on Thursday to talk. I may destroy you and other things. But until then, man, thank you so much. Great job, Brancis. Cover your noses. But just your noses. Just your noses. Keep that, you want that full fidelity.