The Watch - ‘True Detective: Night Country’ Episode 4 and ‘Mr. & Mrs. Smith’

Episode Date: February 5, 2024

Chris and Andy break down the latest episode of ‘True Detective: Night Country’ and talk about whether or not the show’s use of multiple mystery plotlines is muddying the story (1:00). Then they talk about being pleasantly surprised with ‘Mr. & Mrs. Smith’ after the show’s long road to production (40:08), before briefly discussing the premiere of the final season of ‘Curb Your Enthusiasm’ (59:18). Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, guys, it's your boy Johnny Bananas, and I'll be covering all the treachery, deceit, backstabbing, and murder from season two of the Traders U.S. on my podcast, death taxes, and bananas. I'll be joined all season by my fellow castmates to swap stories, provide all the behind-the-scenes antics, and sorted details from filming. So, Sally Fourth, and join me for Season 2 of the Traders every Saturday on the Ringer reality TV podcast feed. know about one and three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you? Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away. Trimphaya, Gucalcumab taken by injection, is a prescription medicine for adults with moderate to severe plaques psoriasis, who may benefit from taking injections or pills or phototherapy, and for adults with active psoriotic arthritis. Serious allergic

reactions and increased risk of infections and liver problems may occur. Before a treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or if you need a vaccine. Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimphaya. Tap this ad to learn more about Trimphia, including important safety information. This episode is brought to you by Brooks. Running connects us to a rush of energy that flows through our world. The cheers of friends that unlock a new gear within us, the intersection of interest that inspires a run crew,

the support that gets you over the finish line. Connection is why we move forward and what inspires us to keep going. Let's run there. Learn more at brooksrunning.com. I need supports to have to clear the run. Stand up and walk now. Hello, and welcome to the watch. My name is Chris Ryan.

I am an editor at the ringer.com and joining me on the other line. He's all wet just like Huckleberry Finn. It's Andy Greenwald. That is relevant. That is accurate. That is a little sad. Honestly, we're not together today. What's up, man?

It's great to see you. It's great to be back in the torrential downpour of Los Angeles. Kaya's here virtually with us. We're recording from our various abodes because it was just, it's just too damn wet to drive through Los Angeles to get to each other today. Andy, how you doing? Do you think the people in the rest of the country hear that? And I mean, this is just confirming priors, right? Like, it actually is, we probably could have made it today, but schools are canceled because of the rain. There are some areas that are unsafe. I think we were perhaps overly

prudent. My coffee shop was closed this morning. Yeah. Sandbags were out. It was just like preemptive, but the tiniest damp violins. And then I went to the coffee shop down the street from the coffee shop, and I feel like the people in the coffee shop were like, oh, it's you. Well, wait, because they were like, you're... Yeah, because they're like, we know you like La Cologne. So, like, what are you doing here? Wow, no free ads, but I guess if you're from Philly, you get.

I mean, it's a Philadelphia roaster. You know what I mean? Just like myself. It's great to see you, man. I've been on the road for about a week during the rewatchables tour, the cold weather tour. It wasn't that cold. It was pretty deece out.

Well, Chris, was it not that cold? Because you were dressed quite, warmly, I think, at the shows. You were wearing, every picture that showed up, you were wearing like a pea coat. You had a beanie on. Well, I feel like you were worried about. The stage I loved, every show was fantastic. It was so great to see everybody. All the venues were fantastic. People who worked there were so supportive and helpful. And I will just say it was a bit cold on the stage in Philly.

And I was like, I'm in the night country now. I got to get this. I got to get wrapped up. Well, tell us more about this. Congratulations. A successful tour. Thank you. Yeah. Any other high, like regional highlights? Did you, because you were only in these cities, some of which you've obviously spent a lot of time in or and or were born in. But like you were in there for only short amounts of time. Yeah, we were in and out.

In and out. I mean, I went to just absolutely dynamite bar and grill in D.C. called Old Evitz Grill, where people just take down steaks and oysters at midnight. And that's not a euphemism. It's like literally like just people hanging out. And when you say people, you mean Joe House. I mean lobbyists. Yeah. Well, no, bipartisanship is back.

Do you think you played a small role in that? Oh, yeah. Did they pull something off today? Do you feel well? I mean, not today, but like last night, you know, your girl, Kirsten Cinema, and your guy Ray Lankford and a bunch of the Democrats, they pushed that boulder up the hill. Those are my top two draft picks, yeah. I wondered if that had something to do with your work in D.C. That's my Caleb Williams and Drake May. You might not draft both?

Andy, just a couple of admin things. For one thing, I wanted to ask, what's to stick the landing this week? Because I think it's helpful to put that at the top of the watch. just so people know where to find your other work. Listen to you. You're like Larry David. You feel like these things should be announced ahead of time. You are not into secrecy in podcasts.

I have no control over that. No, I know, but I'm saying in this one we do. This week's episode is a show called Girls. Do you remember it? I love it. I love the girls. This was one of the fun things. In retrospect, I really, I really, really love that show.

We did not know how good we had it in retrospect. One of the fun things about doing this podcast is obviously there are some no-brainers that we're sprinkling in throughout this first run of episodes and hopefully we'll get to others in the future. But also there's been some like, you know, guest feedback. So there are people who I wanted to podcast with, such as our dear friend Amanda Dobbins, who had a request. And so we hit girls, which was really fun to do. And yeah, I feel I had very little, it felt like it was a million years ago, I guess I would say, even though it absolutely wasn't. Girls are recording the spot. Girls was. Yeah. Well, Kaya is nodding somewhere that we did record it quite some time ago. But yes, it did feel like a long time ago. That's going up this week. I'm excited to share it. People should definitely be checking this out. It's been some really awesome conversations. And it's, it is honestly quite fun to hear you paired with other people. Like, I usually get the benefit of jumping around the Ringer podcast network. But it's been really cool hearing you talk to Joe and, well, that was on the watch. But talk to Sean and now Amanda coming up.

Is this you talking after reading the New York Magazine cover story on polyamory? Did you read that? And you were like, I feel like this actually. God bless my wife. She asked me to keep that issue just because she loves the cats picture. It's a bunch of cats on the picture on the cover of New York Magazine. This is actually a good topic. This is a, you know, I don't know if this is the most like, it's not a family unfriendly topic,

but it's not like the thing you always want to bring up. But that cover is, that cover is a slam dunk for all the wrong reasons. It is the most popular magazine cover of the year in my household, certainly. Yeah. Yeah. So I appreciate you. Look, you're opening up your mind. Have you gotten a lot of dad?

What does it mean to have multiple partners? Questions? No, more like, why don't our cats put their arms around each other like that? So today, Andy, I wanted to talk to you about True D from last night. I wanted to talk to you a little bit about Mr. and Mrs. Smith. I had a lovely flight back from New York City yesterday and got to knock out half that season on my iPad. And a little curb. I thought maybe we could just pour one out for Carl Weathers to start with.

Obviously, a patron saint of this podcast with his work in Mandalorian, but really sad. We just did Creed in Philadelphia. So I've been thinking a bunch about him anyway. And then to get that news, I guess it was on Thursday that he had passed away. Really, really sad. And one of the reasons why is, like, obviously it had such a storied career. But was in that kind of like a little bit of like a late life. Renaissance was directing episodes of TV, was doing all that work in Star Wars. And, you know,

I grew up on Action Jackson. I grew up on Predator and I grew up on Rocky. So really just like an iconic person in my life. What about you, man? Yeah, I would just say what was exciting about him over the last few years was how much joy he seemed to be exuding in everything that he did. He was the living embodiment of Mando. He was. And I'm glad you point out the directing thing. I just feel like he seemed to enjoy his career so much, especially all the different opportunities he was given later in it. And the fact that John Favreau and the team of Lucasfilm were giving him opportunities to direct on a show that was making him famous all over again with a very different generation, was really exciting. I'm sure people listening to this podcast were either aware of or became

aware of the fact that his brilliant arrest of development performance was entirely of his own creation that you saw this right that like yeah that uh mitch hurwitz who created the show wanted carl weathers on so he could do an extended rocky parody and was very nervous about talking to carl weathers about it and rightfully so because carl weathers was like i don't want to do a rocky parody why can't i just be funny like maybe i'm really cheap and then that led to all the stuff about how you can get yourself a stew um seems like a wonderful guy a wonderful career and it's really it's really sad what do you want to talk about first would you like to do true detective I thought you were going to come at me for like taking expats away from you.

Because Joanne and I talked about it last week and I feel like you probably had a lot of Hong Kong takes. Well, I got to be honest, man. Not to pull it Andy, but I have not had the time to watch expats. And part of it is just like we just now all of a sudden the deluge shit. Amazon chose to put up all of Mr. and Mrs. Smith at once. We have Masters of Air still going. We have Night Country still going. Curb is back and probably, oh, Mr. Spade.

I mean, there's half a dozen other shows that I'm not even thinking. of and I just haven't gotten around to checking it out, but I did enjoy your conversation. I'm proud that all we ever want, really, in this career is to have something named after us and the act of not watching television being named after me is, feels good. It feels good. It feels earned. Not this week. You did the work, brother. I've been in front of that screen, just crushing tape. What do you want to do? Should we detect some? I think we'll save Mr. Spade for Thursday. We'll do some other stuff on Thursday. But I thought maybe we could just go through True Detective. I have.

my customary like breakdown here. I would not describe this episode as I would say it was definitely a lot of trauma floating around, a lot of like real psychological, uh, open wounds being exposed. A lot of people going through it as as many do on Christmas Eve around the holidays, but particularly the folks in Ennis Alaska. I'll just, I'll just kind of hit some of the major points. I mean, it's Christmas Eve and it's we're in the night country now after a brief stint of a facility, Sistair takes her own life by walking into the frozen sea, causing Navarro to get into a brawl with townies and admit to Danvers that she worries there is a sort of mental illness slash curse that follows members of her family and that she could be next. The connection between her sister's final moments and Navarro's looming sense of dread is a rolling orange. And it's one that Navarro saw out on the ice at one point earlier in the season.

In this episode, Julia, sees an orange roll out from underneath her bed at the rear. Evangeline Navarro, doesn't she sees the orange, doesn't she roll it into the darkness? And it rolls back from under the bed. Yes. And then it rolls out from under the bed underneath Julia's bed in the facility. That moment hits different in California

because you just leave a house. I've already had my harvest for my personal orange grove, by the way. I have a tree in my backyard. And I mean, I'm just blessing everyone with CR Citrus. Which was nice, by the way. I used some of that.

Thank you. Is your tree doing okay with this wet rain? Do you want to go check on? it. I looked. I mean, so I literally, I picked it, I picked it bare, like when, when they, they came in. I'm trying to see our citrus. I just need a second. Keep going. Vitamin CR. Mm-hmm. Who says no? God. What an investment opportunity. It's doing fine. Thank you for asking. Anyway, so as what, the moment when the orange rolls out under the bed is kind of a

I guess a little bit of a I wouldn't say a turning point but it is definitely a step fully into horror if you had thought that there was any kind of you know line between horror and thriller that we were still walking

Issa Lopez pushes us fully into horror because there is a sort of ghostly demonic figure underneath the bed there is a monster under the bed and you know who that is we're not sure it could be is it Navarro

and is it Navarro's mother and Julia's mother is it one of the victims of crimes committed against women over the course of the last 10, 15 years in Ennis, who knows? On the other side of town, Danvers is kind of spinning out. Her case is slipping from her fingers. She's drinking absolute. She's losing her daughter. She can't seem to find a warm bed, which is really a challenge for her. And she's nearly getting into accidents with one eye polar bears that resemble the stuffed animals of her late son. She's got two phone videos that she's essentially trying to unlock, like, she's already cracked the videos, but she's trying to sort of piece together little clues

out of these videos. One is of Annie Kay and her final moments in an ice cave, basically declaring that she's about to be murdered and they're using like a freeze frame of what they think is fossilized like bones in an ice cave somewhere. And then there's... You didn't recognize those as whale bones? Not off the top. I thought maybe we were going to go, we were going to go full woolly, full, full willy mammoth. Oh, you thought it was mammoth country. Okay. I mean, who knows? You know, to meantime, is a flat circle. And nowhere is that more the case than under the ice where everything gets, you know, like frozen forever.

So anyway, she's got these phone videos, one of Annie Kay, one of the quote unquote hot scientist saying she's awake. She's trying to piece together like what, what is similar about these things? She thinks there's a power cut in both videos and that the killer could be cutting the power on these people before they, you know, she's clutching at straws, but in any case, she's looking for Tagak, she's looking for Clark, and now she is looking for a new old comer to the case, this guy named Otis Heiss, who is a blind, maimed German, who experienced some of the same injuries as the Salal scientists, and also is responsible for mapping the caves that they think Annie was in

before her body was moved to a more obvious place. in other Ennis news, Hank's Mail Order Bride is a no-show, really heartbreaking scene depending on how evil Hank winds up being. Prior is having marriage problems. Danvers Kid is vandalizing the mine's offices, and Christopher Eccleston has taken this sort of corpsicle back to Anchorage, but not before doing some teeth whitening and having a very solid conversation with Danvers. That's what I was going to say.

The bigger issue is that he didn't finish his whitening regime. I know. I know. I mean, she came in, she was really making fun of mine. guy, Chris. You know, she was just like, I mean, dental care is dental care. It's really a private thing. I don't know if it's a private thing. I know you didn't really watch the Grammys last night, but some people had some extremely white teeth. Like, like, as if they had gotten the Eccleston memo, like 48 hours before the red carpets, it was a little. Would you ever do that? Would you

ever do that? Absolutely. You would get teeth whitening. I mean, if I was going to be. Would you get like veneers? Would you get the like, no. Okay. If I had to be, if I was like going to be on a red carpet like at the Grammys. But what I'd like to do is have a head start so I could get it and then drink coffee for a couple days, you know what I mean? So I wasn't looking to try hard. Oh, right. So you would get like a new coat of paint, but then tried scuff it up.

It's kind of like what, and I don't want to step on anything, but if anyone has watched episode two of Mr. and Mrs. Smith, it's what Donald Glover says he's going to do to his shoes. Yes. That's what I would do to my face bones, aka my teeth. The episode culminates with a fisherman. reporting that a man walking in the remote area by a dredging facility, who they think is, they have a picture of this guy,

kind of walking out in the snow. They think this is Clark, the missing scientist from Solal, the one who is dating Annie, the one who seems to be essentially the prime suspect of this case, that's who they think is out there. So they go out to this dredging facility. This is Navarro and Danvers,

assuming it's Clark, and they hunt down a guy in this old abandoned factory, festooned with spiral drawings, spiral drawings that also turned up at Oliver to Gox House when they went back to this sort of off the grid community. It's like his encampment, yeah. And he's got spirals everywhere now, even though he himself has disappeared. Navarro, while they chase Clark or who they think is Clark, Navarro gets distracted by hearing a voice and goes off on her own.

Liz chases this person who she thinks is Clark. It turns out to be Otis, who's all fucked up, bleeding from the ears, blind. Is he using heroin? What was that? Yeah, he's on, he's on, um, scag. And then he has some real choice words about where we're at. He's like, Clark is in the night country. We're all in the night country now.

While this is happening, Navarro is basically interfacing with apparitions, supernatural visions. Uh, there's a Christmas tree for some reason, fully illuminated in this, uh, broken down old dredging facility.

And when Liz finally happens upon Navarro, Navarro is bleeding from her ears, much like, uh, Otis is. It's like, it seems to be, taking over Navarro. So we'll see, hopefully it's just a, hopefully it's just a short-term knock

and not like a season-ending injury for Navarro there. I think the real true detectives of night country are the fishermen or whoever's out there, because as we've learned over four episodes, like the police forces stretch thin, Christopher Eggleston is flying in, they don't have people to do the, you know, the post-mortem stuff. And yet if a woman walks nude into the frozen horizon, her body is discovered and identified within what appears to be like 45 minutes, right? Right. The fishermen are out there being like, he got a guy in a jacket. I feel like we should bring some of them into the force.

I feel like that would have been a more useful troop for Hank to recruit, you know, than his Jan Sixers that he did the other week. So how would you characterize this episode? Was it a tweener setup episode? Was it one that was a full horror gore fest for you? Like, what would you, what did you walk away from this feeling? My thing with this episode, yes, is it was a tweener, but it wasn't a tweener in the sense of middle segments of shows like this often feel pitch between the beginning and the end. For me, this was an interesting hour because I thought it contained Night Country at its very best and Night Country at its not best.

I don't want to say worse because I'm broadly enjoying the show. For me, the best stuff was evident. I think the show does very, very well with it. It's character-based set pieces. Like, I know that the Hank scenes were, I mean, there are not a lot of laughs to be played in the night country generally. So I think they were played a little bit lighter, as you said, that's TBD, depending on how he handles all of it.

But I also thought those scenes were fantastic. I thought that John Hawks played them really well. I thought they were beautifully shot, the business on the plane. The flowers spread out on the camera bench. Yeah, yeah. And also the kind of, again, this isn't like an everyday thing, that he doesn't always order mail-order brides, I think. It's not always Christmas Eve, but the way that that scene at the airport led to him being in the office when his son is there and he's drinking in their interaction and he invites himself to dinner.

It's like a nice cascading series of character beats that make me feel very well habituated in this place. I really like those personal things. I thought some of the other stuff was tougher to swallow. And by other stuff, I don't mean like Otis necessarily or even the set piece in that dredging facility. because I thought it was, again, whoever's doing the production design, I should get the name in front of me, like to find this location or to build it,

because I know they did some set work, it was fantastic. It was really evocative. It was really cool. But there was just some stuff that I, I'm a little bit over, like the character who suffers a traumatic loss and then can only feel things

through being physically beaten within an inch of her life. Yeah. I identified with that. No, I know. I know. That's why I'm trying to talk very carefully and respectfully. Yeah.

Because I remember you in the 2000, But I think... Whenever I have personal disappointments, I just walk into the upper decks of an Eagles game wearing full Cowboys regalia. In deck we trust. But you know what I mean? I do. I do. It's the only way you know how to feel is to hurt.

Yeah. But also I think that it's interesting considering in some ways this show, this season as inverse of, like, I don't want to do the comparison between this season and the Pizzolado season. It's a different show. And, you know, I don't want to get into a debate necessarily about that. But from my vantage point, I thought that the things that Pizzolato was not as good at, this season is doing a much better job of in terms of the interpersonal relationships, grounding the emotion and some of the, you know, understanding the emotional relationships between people before they are thrown into the pits of a metaphorical or potentially literal night country. there are versions of this show or any show where the Fiona Shaw Christmas dinner scene is cut

I loved it I loved it not just because I like it when characters cook but because it was just it was deeply imagined it was really evocative and it took us out of something to remind us that a larger world is at play not just the sort of gear turning

of an investigation that said the gear turning of the larger investigation necessitates a certain momentum And it's hard. I think that one of the hardest things about making a show like this is balancing the necessary momentum of we are investigating something. There's a clock on it. We have to solve it with we're also making a TV show where stuff has to happen to people. And that's how you end up with kind of character development shorthand, basically, like we do with Navarro, where how is she going to process having a sister, losing a sister, and all of this in such a short amount of screen time. And sometimes the shortest way to communicate it is have her get in a bloody fist fight. I get it. Yeah. I mean, I also, I think that the bloody fist fight worked in so much as it was an extension of her going to the facility and finding this poor guy behind a counter who's like, I basically was like, this is a voluntary, you know, we don't confine people here.

I mean, it was, I thought that was a really effective scene. I'll tell you what. I liked, I liked a lot about this episode. I think that one thing that's working for me particularly, I've read some stuff online about this, but it's not even like a true detective theory as much as it's just a sort of metaphor. like night country as an underworld. And in crime fiction, which is one of the reasons why you and I are so attracted, I think, to crime fiction is that it's this idea that there is like economies and social orders and morality that exist just outside of your daily perception of life.

So like if you're walking down the street or you walk around New York and like down that street, something is happening that has nothing to do with people who are like, quote unquote, going to work a normal job the way we normally think of it. But it is reflective of the, I don't know, collective consciousness of the society that it's happening in. This is why you and I are also really attracted to, you know, crime novels that are set in Marseille or crime novels that are set in Naples or crime novels that are set in the American Southwest is because every place is different,

but all places are the same, you know? And I really like that idea of the underworld. And I'm very open to the idea of the underworld also being more of a mythological place, a night country, so to speak, where ghosts are real. And there is some sort of deeper connection to the environment, or, I mean specifically like mother nature environment, not environment, like just the streets that they walk. It's, there's a dialogue happening with what happens when you live in a place where the supernatural could seem natural. I like that a lot. And I thought that this episode did a really good job with it. There was a, for me, a little bit of a jankiness

to this episode that really threw me off. I think this is my least favorite of the four so far. Like even just in basic kind of, I think this episode happened to have a lot of somebody calls somebody else and is like, you have to come over here. And it's like, why wouldn't you just tell this person on the phone that like this is happening? You know what I mean?

Or like the entire construction of like Pryor has to drive Evangeline because Liz is drunk, but Liz then also winds up driving around. But it's essentially like you just needed these characters to be together. in different ways. And I just felt like there was a little bit of gymnastics

or bending over backwards to get it there. And there was even stuff like where even in the dredging facility like Navarro and Liz splitting up and then Liz finds Navarro

but it's still cutting back to like Liz being with Otis. And I think that was obviously just sort of like cross-cutting but for me it played almost like like there was a insert shot missing or something happened like where it was like didn't work out

and I just personally felt like there was a little bit of an unevenness to this episode for my own personal tastes. It's really hard. And I don't mean to say that like that excuses anything. But I think that the nature of a story like this where you're being put into an unfamiliar place with unfamiliar characters, but it's operating under a, I mean, it only works if you feel kinship with these people and have an understanding of their history. And it's also backfilling in some of the history, moving. sideways with ancillary storylines that I imagine will become more major storylines, but like tracking Liz's relationship with her stepdaughter while also trying to

understand what happened with her son, but while also finding Clark and the larger mystery, you know, they're solving the anti-crime now, even though it happened years ago. It's moving in a lot of different directions. And there are certain things that are getting short shrift. And I think that it's very impressive that Issa Lopez and her team have. have put forward the best foot that they have to this degree. And what I mean by that is, like, fundamentally, I still, I don't know fully where I stand with Liz Danvers.

Now, I think Jody Foster's performance is amazing. And you cast someone like Jody Foster because you trust and understand things that don't need to be said. That is what true acting stars can do for you in a part like this. But her role in the town where she has pissed everyone off by sleeping with everyone's husbands, but also has such a magnetic, charismatic, obsessive quality that people like Pryor follow her blindly to the, you know, even at the, with the chance of blowing up his entire marriage,

it's asking a lot of the audience to understand that. You know, again, I don't need my hand held all the time. But I think one of the things you're speaking to, which I don't disagree with, I thought the end sequence was maybe more successful than you did. But I think that there's... I thought it was really cool, the wet footsteps. Like, I mean, there was definitely stuff, a lot of food for thought.

I was just more like, eh. Here's my metaphor. This is not going to work, but I'm going to try it anyway. But do you remember those old Morton salt jars, like the iodized salt things or the woman, you know, the girl with the umbrella? And you know how you open them? You sort of rotate the top. And they got the little metal tab there, right? Yeah.

The metal tab's on the side. On the top, you rotate the plastic and there's the part where the salt comes out in a pore or the part where it's like perforated and come out. and to line it up, you turn the thing and sometimes there's the hole in the right place and sometimes there isn't. And I kind of feel like that is my experience of watching Two Detective Season 4 where sometimes everything is in sync

and lined up the way it's supposed to. And sometimes, sometimes brother, the salt doesn't come out. When you need a lot of salt, when the roads are that frozen, boy, I'm reaching. But I think that that may be why I'm in a place with a show

that I may be alone with it. But like broadly, well, no, no, I don't need to caveat. I am enjoying the show. And broadly, I think it's been remarkably successful. There have been times when I felt more in and less in and has gone forward and backwards. But I think what I'm feeling is, you know, I think that the creative team is doing a really good job in a good spirited way. And I think that there are times when it's firing on all cylinders and it's times when you can feel the work. But I don't mind it when I feel like it's being done from a, you know, a good and

creative place, and I still think they could, you know, not to trademark myself, but this landing could be stuck. I realized this at the very end of the evening last night when I got done watching True Detective, so not quite at the end of the evening because then I watched Kerb, but, and I don't have any notes about Curb, I just have joy. So I'm through four episodes of Mr. and Mrs. Smith. We can, we can chat about that in a second, but I will tell you, and this is not a spoiler to say that the sort of origin stories and the backgrounds of the characters, the main characters in Mr. Smith are still pretty mysterious

by episode four, which is four hours into the show. And I don't even know, maybe, I assume at some point it will be revealed why they chose to do the things that they're doing, but we're really just getting piecemeal bits of information laid out for us. I remembered, I guess I never really articulated this to myself, but I obviously love mysteries. I don't know if I love a double mystery. I don't know if I love it when a character who we don't really know or know what happened to get them to the place that they're at is also in the process of solving a mystery. And what I mean when I'm talking about true detective is specifically the Wheeler case.

So the Wheeler case is this abusive man who killed his wife and Navarro and Danvers go over to his home. This is, it seems like what about five years ago, four years ago. I'm not sure when this. It's supposed to happen. It's not the immediate pass, but it's relatively recently that Liz was in Ennis and she and Navarro were working closely together. Yes.

So this is when they were partners. And then I think the Annie case is the final sort of fissure between the two of them. But this Wheeler case has been referenced in flashback multiple times now. Once as a story that Liz is telling to prior that what we are seeing on screen is different than what she is telling prior. Okay. Then we get a bit of it to, in this past episode, where we find out that Liz is insisting that Navarro saw basically the same apparition that

Julia saw underneath the bed, this kind of, this ghostly, almost like the ring-looking woman, and that, like, there was some sort of weird disagreement between Navarro and Danvers, because Navarro's like, I didn't see anything, even though Navarro is saying, I worry that I'm starting to see things. and Liz is calling her a liar. Now, that's fine. I understand the idea of the breadcrumb trail and everything, but I think when you layer the mystery of what's happening in Ennis at the moment with the mystery of the fact that characters who have obviously shared an experience

are not naturally speaking about those experiences of each other, solely so that the audience is in the dark about what really happened with Wheeler or what really happened with Annie or why Liz is the way she is. it just becomes like the cake is too high, you know? I think that's incredibly well observed and articulated, and I think it's a reason why in the most traditional, and someone could argue successful, I don't know if it's always because of that,

crime fiction setups, your main character is a cudgel or a blade that slices through everything else. And it's what grounds us. I know we're not talking about it today necessarily, but another banger of an episode of Monsieur Spade this week, we know in our bones, whether it's from reading the Maltese falcon, or whether it's from seeing Bugs Bunny imitate Humphrey Bogart and Looney Tunes cartoons, we know who Sam Spade is. We get it.

Because we get it, and you could argue with Monsieur Spade that Scott Frank and Tom Fontana are taking too many liberties with that safety and that knowledge that we know, all sorts of complicated craziness can happen around it because we're grounded. The double mystery and the double mystery detective is an incredibly challenging thing. I think even if you look back at the history of the more, of the successful, now you and I are Ray Valcoro fans for life, but I think it's fair to say season one and season three are considered to be the most successful of the previous iteration of true detective. And both of those seasons, they were weighted differently in terms of star power.

Well, I guess that is an example. Yeah, that's a season three is an example of what I'm talking about, I guess. But right, so in season three, it was Wayne Hayes was played by Mahershal Ali in a brilliant performance and he was an unreliable narrator because the story is being told in multiple timelines and he had a degenerative cognitive issue. I don't remember if it was ever called Alzheimer's, but his memory was questionable. But I think the larger thing, like he was slightly questionable, but Stephen Dorff's character was familiar, whether he was a good guy or not, that's a separate issue. Similarly, Russ Cole is out there on Jupiter and Woody Harrelson was a cop who liked to sleep with other people that he met at the phone store, if I remember correctly.

The familiar and the unfamiliar, right? On this show, Liz is the more bedrock character, but I think what you're saying is we still don't know a lot of things about her, and they're not talking about the things we don't know. And so the parsing those mysteries, but again, I completely agree with you. And I think this is a correct reading of the show. But one thing that I keep picking up on is so hard to keep track of, and I think they're doing an amazing job.

they're succeeding all the time. But I'm fascinated with the ways in which Issa, and then she has a great writer, Alan Page Ariago, who I know is contributed to the show. And Chris Mundy from Ozark worked on this show as well. So there's a lot of brain power and almost like on a rote level

like construction and architecture and engineering ability in this room to address the thing that we're saying, that's a tough one. So, but I find it just on like a, yeah, on like a procedural level, meaning the procedure of writing television, not solving crimes on television,

I find it pretty fascinating. Can I ask you, I don't really have any theories or anything. I mean, the spiral stuff is now has an effect on mildly domesticated wolf dogs. So, you know, like,

the spiral is now so prevalent. Its meanings are so multiple. It's effects on people. Is it supposed to be some sort of totem that guards from spirits? Is it something that's, welcoming spirits in? Is it something that people are using to commune with the night country or this other kind of like psychological universe, the psychosphere, as as Russ Cole called it and true

detective? So I don't really have any like it's the tuddles they're doing this kind of thing. I do want to know whether or not, and this is spoilers for mayor of Eastown. I'm going to just say that. I'm sorry if you haven't seen Mary of Easton. Skip 10 or 20 seconds. Are we about to get Evan Peters with Pryor? This dude is getting real live forever for me. I definitely had those vibes when Liz was suddenly... She insisted that he lists leave on Christmas Eve, yeah. To inubriated to go out.

I think that that's... You know, look, I mean, it's not just you. It's also the fact that one thing we do know about Liz is that she did lose her son in some fashion. And Pryor is behaving in a way that is more filial towards her than it is towards his own actual father. That's all in play. I think you're not wrong to be picking up on that.

I would be bummed if it went in that direction, but I think that's in play. The other thing is, and we should, when you're talking about what the thing is going to be about what is the night country, how do you get there, should you wear earplugs, considering what happens to people

who get too close to it, we can discuss. Do you use ways or do you use Apple Maps or Google? Oh, do you like plug it in? Yeah. You just say night country. Let me see actually what happens if I write night country into Google Maps. Because Chris, we've talked about this.

Like, Waze is more homicidal than anyone involved in Ennis, Alaska. Like, if you live in Los Angeles and you use Ways, it actively tries to cull the herd by making you take left turns across six lanes of traffic. So I would not do ways in a place where the dead live and walk. I typed in Night Country. The first result is Blue Night Country in France. Don't know what that is. The third result,

There are two French results. And then this third result is Tampa Joe's restaurant and sports bar. Anderson Road. Town and country, Florida. That is definitely the night country. By the way, that is the night moves country. By the way, Chris, you want to talk about curbs so badly. You're already trying to pick a fight with Siri on this part of the, you're so amped.

I just wanted to say that this episode did highlight that. I mean, we all have different fears, right, than phobias that we walk around with and bring into our viewing experiences. One of my biggest phobias, I'm not saying this is why I never became a teacher, because I'm also impatient and didn't want to go to school anymore. But I think if I were a teacher, my biggest phobia would be people knocking on my door in the middle of the night and being like, you know stuff, right? Yeah. The fact that this guy who just teaches in the high school. Remember when we had sex? Can you do a little bit of Christmas Eve cartography for?

for me? But also he's like, well, I should be with my family whom I've wronged. But instead, I will zoom and enhance a JPEG and correctly identify the age of whale bones. It's my favorite part about that is when they're like, you know, who could help us with this? And he's like, it's the person who did the maps and he just Googles him. Yeah. Who did the maps of the forbidden ice caves nearby? But what if he Googled and it just showed a sports bar in Florida? The whole show pivoted. I would love that, honestly. So it does seem, I don't think this was your theory.

I'm sure this is a popular theory, but the suggestion that if you dig in the permafrost long enough, you will release something that will cause something does seem to be the correct read on what's going on here. And if a lot of this was centered in caves, whether the caves are the same type of situation that the slal people were drilling into, did they create the caves,

or they closed because of what they did. That seems to be where it's headed. But I do think I'm excited for the last two episodes if they really are, and I hope they keep their clothes on to do it, if they are walking off the edge of the map. Yes. I'm very excited. I'm very excited as well.

And there's lots of little details. Julia folding her clothes, much like the Solal guys did upon walking out onto the sea. People should check out Rob and Joe and their deep dive on Prestige TV as well as I believe Van and Charles are now doing like previewing like theories for the upcoming episode. So usually typically in true detective fashion, the, the penultimate episode is a banger. So I'm, I mean, I'm really excited for Sunday night. Do you know what I can't? I just can't abide.

Oh, actually, you know what? And programming announcement, True Detective is coming out on Friday because they're not going to go up against Super Bowl. Oh, okay, cool. Just so. Eagles fans have been in the night country for like three, four, six weeks now. So speak for yourself. Use eye. Welcome.

Use eyes. Oh, you're feeling sunny? The one thing that I couldn't abide was in a place where Doritos cost $60. I'm sorry, that's Los Angeles. In a place where snacks are expensive, like they are in Ennis, I just couldn't abide, Liz tossing the trash turkey away. Like, the reason why isn't because she didn't want to make a big meal because her daughter stormed out of the house. It's twofold. One, that was already too much food for two people.

the loss of one of the people did not change anything in terms of ratios. Plus, you're a big soup guy. That can go right in a pot. That's a great. This is what I, she had prepped it. So all she had done the hard work, all she had to do is put it into the oven. And then she would have had like, that was a huge bird. She would have had like three hours plus to drink vodka and look at her phone.

Yeah. Believe me, I've done that on holidays. It works out fine. What do you think? Liz Danvers and Bill Simmons both plugged in iPhone. headphones. Oh, that's interesting. All I can think of it is I would give anything for supplementary content if Liz Danvers walking around Ennis doing a TikTok. This is Liz Danvers live from Ennis, day seven of night, and I got to say, Kirk Cousins, not that bad. He'll be all about the Porzinger's

injury. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Ever have a plan come together out of nowhere and realize you're missing something? Like a last minute beach day, a spontaneous hike, or an outdoor movie night you didn't plan for. That's when Prime's same-day delivery as you're back. Getting you exactly what you need fast and reliably so you can actually join the moment instead of watching from the sidelines.

Same day delivery, it's on Prime. Visit Amazon.com slash Prime to find millions of items delivered fast. Available in select areas. Terms apply. The playoffs are here and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul Predicts.

Follow all the playoff dishes. swishes, wishes, and misses. Predict the spread, the total points, and even the game winner. Sign up for Fandual Predicts and predicted from the couch. Offered by Fandual Prediction Markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant. 18 plus. Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tools. This episode is brought to you by the Active Cash Credit Card from Wells Fargo.

That's a mouthful, but that's because it packs a lot in. earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases with it, big or small. So whether it's buying tickets at the game or grabbing a coffee, it earns unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases. Say it with me. The active cash credit card from Wells Fargo, be a 2%er.

Learn more at Wells Fargo.com forward slash active cash terms apply. Let's talk about Mr. and Mrs. Smith. Yes, I'd like it. So this comes from a long and winding road of development. It's an Amazon show. from Donald Glover and Francesca Sloan, who created it and Francesca Sloan,

wrote a bunch of the episodes, and I think show ran it, and multiple episodes. Are all the episodes directed by Hero? I'm not sure. I don't think so. Hero Mirai, the acclaimed director of many episodes of Atlanta

and Station 11, and one of our favorite filmmakers working in TV. Chris, just to stop you, Hero only directed the first two. The rest are people who are familiar from the larger Atlanta extended universe. The great Amy Simits directed a couple episodes, Christian Springer and Donald Glover himself directed the finale.

Okay. And this originally was going to be a vehicle for Donald Glover and Phoebe Wallerbridge, but Phoebe Wallerbridge left at some point in the development process, for reasons not known to me. She was replaced by Maya Erskine, who is playing the titular Mrs. Smith. It's essentially about, you know, it's a remake or a reboot of this big Braddine,

Pitt and Angelina Jolie blockbuster that we did on the rewatchables a little while ago, I think it was in 2005. And it was kind of like this incredible pop culture time capsule. It was these two people who play a married couple who, unbeknownst to them, both are hired assassins for separate sort of shadowy organizations. And the inversion of this sort of plot line for the television show that we're watching is that the two people know that they're killers going into it. They know that they're doing wetwork kind of like going into this and it's the relationship that's unfamiliar. Is that what you use you in the kitchen when it's poultry night? She's wetwork specialist. I actually did look at a package of like, you know, shredded pre-cooked chicken at the grocery store this morning and it's

just like throw it in and then pour a half cup, a quarter cup of water on it. I was like, you know what? That's wet chicken, buddy. That's vitamin CR. She's drinking down. And so we get this series finally, eight episodes. They all went up at once. And let me throw it to you, man. I mean, I have a bunch of thoughts about this. I've watched half the season, so I just got through episode four,

and I will definitely finish it. What did you think? Of the two that you watched, the first two, right? I watched two. You set it up with the long road of development, and people probably heard it in my voice when we were previewing the year.

There was a part of me that just didn't believe this existed. Yeah. Part of that was... It felt like it should have been a bigger deal. And then I got to New York and there are like six different Mr. and Mrs. Smith brand activations going on in the Lower East Side. So I guess we're just not privy to that stuff. Well, also, though, it is, it's Amazon Prime Video, which is just a very strange place in terms of how they market, how they present, who's watching what, when, what font they choose to use, which I truly don't understand. But regardless of all that, I was

quite skeptical coming into this for a variety of reasons. And my skepticism seemed like was going to be borne out because this is a very typical reaction for me. I think people listening to the podcast probably could have called it. I hated the first five, six, seven minutes of this show with a passion. The first five or six minutes are a disconnected vignette with Alexander Scarzgard. At least so far disconnected. Yeah. That's true. Like a little preface with an alternate Mr. Mrs. Smith who drink wine, make googly eyes at each other, and then engage in wild ultra-violence with machine guns. And it was taking all my negative boxes. I was like, this is glib, this is just needlessly, just needlessly gory, and I just didn't get it.

And then the show started. And it was the best kind of TV experience for me where minute by minute, scene by scene, like the scales fell from my eyes. And I was like, do I like this? Do I love this? Am I going to just go straight into the next episode? because I think this show, at least through two, is an enormous, enormous success on a bunch of different levels that I think we're going to get into. But I was thrilled and delighted by it

by the end of one, and that continued all the way through two, and I'm excited to talk about it. And I think I'm maybe even more excited because of where I started and how far I went experientially just to end up in a place of totally loving it and being really excited to finish the season.

I did not have a negative reaction to the glib violence. In fact, I start every morning That is the juice for you. That is fresh squeezed OJ, wet chicken, and some sort of smirking machine gun firing. No, I was just kind of like, oh, Scars Guard.

You know, and then I guess we will be doing, you know what, let's not even do spoilers. I think there's a way to talk about this show that doesn't spoil anything. And I don't want to spoil the sort of thrills that happen in three and four for you because a lot of it is the guest stunt casting and stuff like that. But I also, so I think we can talk about

why we think the show is a success. at the beginning, I think we should, whether we do this right now on mic or we do it off mic, like let's break up the remaining episodes and spread them out over maybe the next two pods so that people can catch up because, as you said, they are inexplicably all up. Yes. So I thought that as soon as they sort of basically start doing the high-high interaction, which is the sort of chat bot that is their employer or the sort of faceless messaging service that is their employer, they refer to it as high-high because this. corporate entity probably will find out is somebody in real life, but like, is basically

communicating them in this sort of chipper, uh, Slack text message, uh, parlance of, of like a, I don't know, young customer service representative. I don't know, like somebody who works in anthropology. And so the Maya Arskeye character and the Donald Glover character, John and Jane, refer to their sort of employers high high. As soon as that starts, and as soon as you start seeing, I guess this is a funny way to say it, but the volume at which people are going to be speaking, which is incredibly relaxed indoor voices, but two people who feel real, like feel like actual humans. I mean, Donald Glover is probably the most stylish, you know, charismatic guy in the world. So it's hard to be like, yeah, it's just like an average everyday Joe. But the casting of

these two people and the way that they first interact with this direct to camera, kind of stolen, not stolen, but an homage to the first movie where they're doing sort of couples therapy to an off-camera voice, that is like, it's such a cool moment. And then I think that everything that kind of plays out from there in terms of their interpersonal dynamic, them getting to know each other in this arranged marriage situation is so delightful and awesome. And it really really reminded me of George Clooney and Jennifer Lopez in the trunk of the car and out of sight

where they're talking about I think they're talking about three days of the condor or something like that and this show does actually remind me of three days of the condor at times but they're talking about the chemistry between Robert Redford

and Fay Donaway and I was like chemistry is just hard to manufacture you either got or you don't and the fact that my Erskine replaced Vee Wallerbridge and this is what they got

is pretty incredible they have such palpable something between the two of them that I could kind of just watch them sit around their house all day and decide whether or not they like scallion cream cheese on their bagels or not which is literally a scene in one of these episodes and sort of all of the kind of mission stuff that they do episode to episode which I think is kind of an ingenious there's a little bit of a serialized story but there's also an episodic quality to it it's got those kinds of justified bones

of like you can, you wouldn't want to skip an episode, but you can sort of be like, oh, cool, a skiing episode. Or, oh, cool, like, they meet two other killers episode. Like, there is, like, a sort of adventure of the weak aspect to it. I'm kind of dumbfounded that they put this up by itself. These are hour-long episodes. They're really good. And I now feel like this is the usual thing

where you're, like, in a competition to watch eight hours of television in three days. So it's like, it's kind of weird. It's a different conversation to have one I almost don't want to have today because I want to talk about how great. You're right. But to say, what are they doing? And is this on the wrong service? Because you could own two months and instead you're acting like you're hiding from it. I don't understand the release strategy whatsoever.

I want to respond about two things you said. One is just the show that begins after the opening. I think whether you like the opening or you dislike the opening, it is not representative of the show that follows. And I think it's worth noting because, look, so much of modern life is vibes. We talk about it. Ben Solek talks about it on the Philly Special Pod. And the vibes of this show in those opening scenes from the high-high scene to when they go into the house throughout that first case, which is very meat-kewed and chatty and slow before it suddenly isn't.

The vibes are not just immaculate. They are really surprising, really interesting, really slow and subtle. and lived in. And I do think Hero Morai gets a lot of credit here because he has, well, first of all, he has enormous talent, but he also has a lot of experience. His wins above replacement as a director are the highest that you can have

as a TV director. And I'm not saying he's just a TV director, but I'm saying Hero will take a piece of material. Yes. And what you get out of it is so much better than you could possibly imagine. I totally agree. And I also think that if you look at what he's

done, this idea of something being high stakes and low-key at the same time is, that's his brand. I don't know how you express that or how you put that on your business card, but that's Atlanta. That's Barry. That's even the beginning of Station 11, where you're having these, like, beautiful pockets of oxygen that are lived in and real in the midst of something that is heightened. It's a miraculous ability, and it's so crucial for this moment of entertainment, too, so that when you get this long walk through the first episode, when things, blow up, so to speak, it is legitimately jarring

and incredibly exciting in a way that I think very few things are which isn't to say that things in TV and movies on TV and in movies these days aren't reliably surprising. There are plenty of surprises

all the time, but jarring is a different thing that suddenly you jump a track and you're on a different track moving in a different speed. I also kind of feel like this is a big thing to say two episodes in,

but one week after we were going through the laundry list of what's wrong with contemporary TV and how certain eras are over and things, I still stand by that, but would love to be wrong. This show feels like what we were supposed to be getting. It feels like the best version of what the last few years were pointing towards in the sense that it is big-ticket IP, but that is being successfully disassembled and reassembled into something that feels both different and vital, but also good for the medium.

Similarly, Donald Glover, as you said, a fashionable guy, stylish guy, charismatic guy. I don't know if he's a movie star, and I don't mean that as an insult. I think that he's a TV star, and I think he's one of the best we've got. My Erskine is phenomenal in this. I thought that the loss of Phoebe,

because it was a headline, would be a loss. I now have gone all the way 180 degrees on this, and I'm like, maybe that's a same show. Can't imagine somebody else, yeah. Not because there's anything wrong with her, but because this energy is the right energy between these two, and that would have been a different energy.

But the level of celebrity is appropriate. The deployment of cameos, even that I've seen through two episodes, feels earned and lived in and right, and it's flashy, and they had a lot of money, and they shot in New York, which is expensive, but they shot in New York, and they also shot at Russ and Daughters.

So they're using a real and recognizable New York and pandering to me potentially, but I accept it. What did you think of her order? It's everything bagel. She got a classic, which is basically a locks sandwich. I approve of the bagel. I approve of the cream cheese choice.

I think capers are essential. But also, I do not approve of eating bagels as sandwiches. Oh. I think it is the inappropriate, if you want a sandwich, get a sandwich. Even if it's a cream cheese thing, the bagels should be split and you eat them as open face two sides. if you're eating a sandwich, it's too much cream cheese, it's too much salt, which is maybe why she got rid of the capers. And then everything squishes out, as Donald shows us, even though he's wearing that nice sweater and he's working to protect it.

So I will get to go, I will go to Russ and daughters and get something like that. And then I will make a mess of myself separating it into its individual components. You mentioned his sweater. So there's a thing I want to say about the clothes in this show that I think initially I was just kind of like, huh. And now I'm like, huh. Not to be too much the character from Barry. We wanted it to be like, hmm. But instead it was like, hmm.

So I was thinking about the clothing that the two characters wear. There's one point where Donald Glover is sitting around and he's wearing a sweatshirt that is like perfectly frayed. Like it was like pre-distressed or whatever. And it says Western football. And maybe there was a college called Western. But like it's like a very like high. designer logo sweatshirt. Like, it's obviously like a mock-up of a varsity sweatshirt by like a high-end designer.

And I was just like, well, with this guy, like, wouldn't this guy just have like a Washington commander's sweatshirt or something like that or whatever he, like, and then you start to understand that nothing that these people have within the realm of this life that they're living is their own. And that as the show goes on, there are these little. red crumbs dropped about, you know, they make this pact early in the series where they're just like, okay, well, we're going to do this job. It's basically being professional assassins. And we are going to do it until we get X amount of money. Are they assassins are spies or

it's just sort of lost over? I think that they're like, they're like, we, I have not learned that answer yet by episode four, but they, they do a little bit of everything, you know? Like in the first episode, they think they're, they're just doing package delivery and it turns out to be obviously a lot darker. Anyway, the point is, is that they make this pack where they're like, we're going to make X amount of money and then we're done and then we can go and live our own lives and go off and start life, basically.

But what you realize is that the company, the occupation, has so completely provided for them, their clothes, like if they have to go to a black tie event, there's the black tie outfit, it's a Gucci suit. I assume that that's not the John's personal

character's Gucci suit that he's wearing to the event. Although I do you think that unclaimed co-check ticket, I think, is going to be relevant. So they have these wonderful clothes. They live in this house that is the envy of their neighbors. They basically don't want for anything. They have a company card that they essentially can buy anything on their farmer's markets, they're at restaurants, whatever.

And you realize that the show, where the movie is about marriage, you know, the movie is like this action movie that's supposed to Trojan Horse's story about modern marriage. This is a reboot of an action movie about marriage that Trojan horses in a story about work and how everybody is entirely dependent on their occupation for everything that they have. And whether that's their clothing or their food or their dependency now on those levels of clothing and food or their spouse or their sense of self and their sense of purpose in the world. And, you know, as the story goes on, I think we get to a little bit more of an idea of how easy or hard it may be for them to keep this packed, for them to leave this job. So I thought that was the most brilliant part about it, that this becomes a show about work.

They're explicitly doing this job for money. The money is intoxicating. And now they are going to continue to keep doing it. And it's just a really sly bit of storytelling. Now, I have some issues with the same level of like, it's been four hours. and have we really moved the football very much in knowing anything about these people? Not yet for me.

I was fine watching those episodes, but I can imagine one thing I would say is if this was a week's week show and got through episode four, you might be like, that was pretty dope, but like who are these people? You know, like... Yes, but is it who are these people

in the sense that they're ciphers or in the sense of that, like, how do you reconcile Dick Whitman and Don Draper? Sure. You know what I mean? Like, I think that your point is, a fantastic one about the way that it uses work as the common language of our times. I also don't want to project too much because you've seen more of it,

but I just want to circle back to the fact that this TV show feels like a TV show to me. And it feels like in the best possible way in this sense that... So you were never like this should be a movie? I hate having this conversation every single time we talk about a show. For me, it's rarely like this should be a movie. It's just that like, people have heard me say this a hundred times, but it's like, what is the shape of, and this is relevant to the first episode, what is the shape of the box here? Yeah.

And the fact that they are Trojan horsing a slow building relationship story with a lot of high-stakes genre business, if not genre nonsense, is delightful to me because that's how TV works week-to-week. This show works week to week. What's exceptional about it is that everything, so far anyway, seems to be pitched at an incredibly high level, meaning the casting, the production value, but also. also the cleverness of the ideas. You know, it is one thing to walk into a room and say, we're going to give these people something to do every week that befits their skill set, but also gives them an opportunity to reveal character. It's another thing to say all that and then deliver with pieces like a silent auction that develops the way that it does in the second episode or the long walk that ends the way that it ends in the pilot. Like this is so far a really,

really, really high-level marriage of theme and structure that I just think is really exciting. And it circles back to the point that we don't, we want to avoid, but we also can't avoid, which is this deserved a week-to-week rollout. I don't know what they were afraid of. They have the data that tells them whatever it tells them. I don't mean that this is a decision that Amazon came upon lightly. It's just that as a fan of what this is, I think it deserves something different. Do you want to wrap up? I mean, we can hit maybe the sort of latter half of Mr. Mrs. Smith on Thursday when we do Mr. Spade and we chat again, can we just talk about Kerb real quick before we go? I would love to. I'm just going to enjoy it

while it's here. I honestly like listening to Larry talked to Bill on the Bill pod a couple of last week. I was just like maybe I got to rewatch all of Kerb. I've secretly been doing a little of that. Yeah. How has it been going? It's the greatest. I am, you know, you and I are both, both probably of, we are the same age, we're of an age where it's just like, wait, how much time has passed since this one thing? But nothing has floored me

as much as the realization that the show has been 25 years that the original Kirby Enthusiasm Special debuted in 1999. And so the rhythms of this voice and this character and this comedy has just been a constant. I mean, yes, there was a six-year gap

and it's been two or three years since the last season. But I couldn't believe that. And because something has been so constant, you kind of just, I don't want to say you, I maybe gloss over how exceptional it consistently is. So, yeah, I went back and I watched Palestinian chicken, and yeah, I went back and I watched some of like the early Leon stuff.

But I also was like, wait, this show had a Seinfeld reunion as a season. Yeah. They wrote a funny Seinfeld reunion with the cast, but also avoided the pitfalls that they make explicit in the text that they would never do a Seinfeld reunion to avoid. it's just like this high wire act of like balletic comedy and even if this season or the last season they're not on that level like these moments of these people hanging out and like Larry's face when he talks to Leon

or I know you want to talk about the series scene I mean I just him screaming the C word is like the funniest thing I've ever seen in my life it's so so rich and it was I just felt great having it back it made me so happy do you know like the moment when I'll speak in terms you can understand, like maybe about a year,

a year and two months ago from this day, when like Jalen Hertz would just hit a vertical route to A.J. Brown and the ball would be in the air and you would have the realization of what was about to happen. You knew, yeah. That's how I felt when Leon, Larry, and Charlton Copley were talking about South Africa. Where I was like, it's happening.

It's in the air. They're going to do it. Yeah. Oh my God. It's like that feeling, that anticipation of like how delicious it's about to get consistently on this show, it's unparalleled. I get, I mean, I'm getting the sense with all the talk that this is the last season that they are going to do something, you know, like to make it definitive. But this is a show. Larry will die again.

Right. I mean, as he said on Bill's pod that like, he, died in season five because he wasn't going to do it anymore. Maybe it's partly marketing, though. It just feels like this is something that they could just do. Who cares? They've treated it like that before. When it goes away, unless the episode is somehow mawkish, which would be out of character,

it'll just feel like a curb season ending. And if we don't get another one, then we were lucky to have the ones we got. But the one thing I was surprised about was the degree to which this one picked up as if it was like a serialized show. that young Larry was a thing, you know, that Tracy Olman was still there. I hope she stays forever. But I was sort of surprised about that. Did you enjoy? Like it just starts when it starts.

Did you enjoy Pachuca? Do you feel similarly about animals that you can say anything to them? Or do you think they pick up on your vibes? I haven't had a pet in a long time. I never was like carry on full conversations with them. But like I think I would be mindful not to be like you fat. piece of shit to my dog. But also, to be clear, like, there were times in Brooklyn over 20 years ago when I would

see you walking in Park Slope basically at the mercy of a reindeer-sized greyhound with an anxiety disorder. I was the fucking early adopter of having inappropriate dogs. That's really true. Like, you ever see, like, some woman and she's just, like, a full Lulu Lemon and she has, like, a St. Bernard with a, like, a deep generational trauma. But also now, when I go to people's houses and they have dogs and they're like, well, you know, she's acting out of character. I'm sorry.

She's barking. I'm like, that's okay. Dogs bark. And they're like, I know, but we upped her Prozac prescription recently. Yeah. Or they're the opposite. And they're like, you know what? We actually don't tell the dog no.

Oh, yeah. Well, as a parent, this is all rigging true. It was a great hang. It was a great hang. Did you feel actively excited knowing it was at the end of your night that like you had this little dessert to look forward to? Yes. As I was kind of like making my way through the night country, I knew that I had Brentwood on the other end. Do you think not putting you on the spot, but knowing that, I think it's Brentwood, that knowing that Brentwood is downloading and listening to episodes of the rewatchables on the reg, like, do you think Larry likes Wayne Jenkins? And do you think he saw We Own the City? So he gets the reference or he just goes.

with the vibe. I imagine he's just like, I like the, if he, if he enjoys Wayne Jenkins, I'm sure he's just like, I enjoy the yelling, you know? He just gets excited. Like, everyone gets, everyone gets excited about that. Do you, what did it feel like in the same way that like, to continue the sports metaphor? There have been moments in the past two baseball playoffs where, you know, Bryce Harper steps to the plate in a crucial situation and there's tens upon tens of thousands of people in the stands and millions of people watching and every single person is waiting for him to hit a home run and then he hits a home run. Was that a similar experience you had in Webster Hall when Bill asks if Wayne Jenkins would be better in Rounders? How did you control your energy in your Kwan in that moment?

You know, it's just like the way cheap trick can't get out of the building without doing surrender, you know? Just like that. Yeah, but did you feel like, did you feel like the energy change? Did you feel pressure? Or you just, do you go calm in that moment and you know what you have to do? I appreciate the question. It's really, it just, it just comes out of me. You know, Wayne, Wayne, and also we were on the East Coast, so I felt like we were in Wayne Country. We were able to... I was impressed because I, you know, I went over some clips. I reviewed some clips of these performances because they're floating out there.

I mean, the podcast themselves haven't been released yet. But I was impressed that when the, you know, when all the oxygen left the room, because everyone's staring at you waiting for it and you deliver and you start big, because it's a loud voice at the start, that you found, you know, you used your instrument so that you found some spots in the middle of the imitation. to say over. Yeah. And work at it.

Like, you put the accent into it. I think at one point I referenced Andrew Huberman, who's a popular neuroscientist on Instagram, and I was like, Heberman, you know? I was very impressed. Wayne Jenkins, the real life, Wayne Jenkins probably could have used some Andrew Huberman techniques at various points. Also, I feel like people don't realize that when you record the rewatchables in the studio, you often take upwards of like 35 takes to get it.

Right. That's right. You operate like David Fincher. And Craig's eyes or bloodshot. Sean is the fincher. Sean is just like, again, again. Sean is the picture. Didn't Sean not, did you tell me, like, did he just sort of freeball it out there?

Like, he didn't have notes? Sean has no notes up there. He's just going straight from the dome. I mean, it's like just pure early 40s cognitive abilities. Like, I don't have that anymore. I need to have some roadmap. I think people understand why you do the in-depth, uh, true detective recap. It's not for our listeners.

It's for me because I watched this episode four days ago. It's funny. It's like, I can remember every single. line of Rounders and the Fugitive. As I was watching them, I was like, and then this happens, but it's hard for me to remember what happened on like Masters of the Air a week ago.

Yeah, when you started saying it, I thought you were talking about Masters of Sex. Like, is that still on? Like, I'm so not living in the present. Did I miss nine seasons of that? All right, we can wrap it up there. Thank you to Kai McMullen for producing us. We were all remote today, but hopefully we'll be in person on Thursday where we'll talk

about Mr. Spade. We'll talk about maybe some more Mr. and Mrs. Smith. who knows what else. Let's do like the middle few. Let's do the middle few Mr. Mrs. Smith and we can finish it out next week. Okay. Talk to you guys later. Stay dry, Branskys.