The Watch - Weekend Watches, ‘The Sympathizer,’ and ‘Fallout’

Episode Date: April 16, 2024

Chris and Andy talk about some of the things they watched over the weekend, including a supersized episode of ‘Bluey’ (1:00) and 'Saturday Night Live' hosted by Ryan Gosling (15:51). Then, they talk about the first episode of ‘The Sympathizer’ and whether shows are helped or hurt by having a famous director like Park Chan-wook direct the first few episodes (22:16). Finally, they discuss ‘Fallout’ and where it ranks among other video game adaptations, such as ‘The Last of Us’ (42:12). Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at The Ringer.com. And joining me in the studio, constantly breaking at Ryan Gosling, it's Andy Greenwald. If that was the category, it would be America. America's doing that. People love to laugh with that guy. Me too. I'm one of them.

I'm an American. Yeah. I speak in your voice, brother. I appreciate that. Greenwald, great to see you. You've been so accommodating to me today. A bit of scheduling hijinks. I was on the big picture today.

It's an epic episode. Was that a, that was a rare occurrence, right? It was a, I'm something of a, I dabble in third chairdom over there. Andy, how are you? I'm great. They said it couldn't be done this podcast. Who did? I don't know.

It was a long time coming. I'm sure there were points where Kaya wondered whether it could be done, but here we are. It's a little bit later than usual, but we are here on a Monday. Today we're going to be talking about the sympathizer, episode one, which aired on the Max last night, as well as Fallout, the entire. season is up on Amazon. You didn't crush that? I did not. I did not crush. Wow. And then we were also, I was going to ask you a couple of things in the stuff in the news today. I love it. I'm ready. I'm so into content these days. I'm going to ask you the big question that I had from middle of the pod. Can I ask it up top? Okay. I mean, to be clear, I want everyone to know. I don't know your

order. I come in cold. Yeah, but you know we do news and then we do shows. It's the way it's always been. Well, sometimes we chat about like parking. Lunch, dinner. stuff. Yeah. That Huberman article that you are still running from. Your silence on that

is deafening. What if I engaged an entire PR team every time you said that you got a text by the way. CR's PR would be an incredible

It's sitting right there. It's right there. Andy. Currently on screens right now. Okay. Ripley. Yep.

On Netflix. All of it. Yeah. Shogun on FX. Mm-hmm. Sympathizer, episode one. I had this thought as we ended the episode last night, as I was wrapping up the sympathizer.

When is the last time we had three shows this good on at the same time? Oh, I thought your question was going to be... When is the last time you spoke this many other languages? Also, well, we'll get to this when we talk to the other shows. When you watch this much television, as many of our listeners do, your brain becomes so TV-pilled that you start predicting plots and mixing up side characters. and like over-reading intention when cutaways to side characters and stuff.

I thought you were going to say just how many shows in general because some of us are still watching Sugar as well. But I guess I guess the heart is a lonely hunter on that one. There was a really sweet text when you shot me on Friday

where you're like, did you check out Sugar 103? I need someone to talk to about it. Am I going to have to start going on another pod like you do? Why don't you do Andy Greenwald podcast on the watch feed? Okay.

You want to talk about that? I feel like there's a little bitterness in there. The reason why I know about the Andy Greenwald podcast aside from the fact that I'm a huge fan subscriber on day one is that I actually went back through watch

archives to see if there was ever a time when you and I were like we've got three shows that if you told me like the year ended tomorrow I would be fine with those three I mean granted it's an early early returns for the sympathizer but I would be more than happy

to have those three in some order at the top of my list to say nothing of Mr. Mrs. Smith and Tokyo Vice and all the other things I've liked from this year. But I am just like, what a time to be a lot. And in the archives, you found that the third episode of The Watch was the debut of your show with Trevor Noah. Yeah. Yeah. I came in hot. I was telling you guys this. I didn't react. You and T. We're just cooking up some some really incredible stuff. I wasn't, I was so, I was in New York. I was going into Earwolf.

Oh, that's right. You weren't here yet. I had Trevor Noah. I had Broad City. I had our guy Colin Farrell. I had like a, that was a time. That was before I came here. Anyway, to answer your question. it's been a long time. It's been a long time since we've had this many big shows, dense shows. airing at the same time.

Now you could say Ripley, it's been airing for, you know, it's over, but I think if anybody watches it in like kind of a piecemeal way like we are, it's just like, it's just an incredible...

Also, it's the filmmaking. I didn't mean to interrupt you, but these are three shows that are seriously composed and considered, and you cannot fold laundry. As we joked last week, the piles are really,

starting to add up. My whites. They're everywhere. Was that you watching TV before 2017? My whites. Was that also? I get all my whites in Ripley, you know? That's true. Before we get to the sympathizer, before we talk more about that, I did want to ask about yet another show that jumped into the fray this weekend.

No? I do want to talk about that. But okay. As I was getting ready to go to a master's viewing party on Sunday. My whites, where are they? Go on. you've teed this up now I saw that Bluey was making quite an impact

on my social media timelines and I hit you up and I was like why are the streets talking about Bluey it was just like Rick Ross and Bluey were the two dominant themes of my For You tab It seems like those were for me

and they were misplaced to you And I said you know what's going on and you said what? Okay, so I feel like there's a couple of Mommingtons and Daddingtons that are very well-versed in this. But for those of you who are not, people know that Bluey is one of the finest achievements in the history of the media. And by far the best, I would say, best children's show ever. And as many Blue Checks have procreated, I feel like we get a lot of Bluey tweets now.

That's my take. Well, so the way that the show has been parceled out in the past, there are three seasons. Every episode of the show is written by former watch guest, the one-time watch guest Joe Brum. And the seasons are like 52 episodes each of seven-minute long episodes. And they debut first in Australia, then they sort of migrate around the globe to like Disney's BBC's partners. This third season, the first half of the episodes came out a year ago almost.

Then they dropped some more. What, 26 of them? Basically. And then it brought the number up to like 47, 48. and then there was an announcement and there was a lot of hubbub like what's going on are they making a season four wouldn't we know about it wouldn't there be a plan

in place and I'll say that like I think that is extremely rare if not completely unique for a franchise this popular around the world I saw some some like financial analyst was like the bluey brand is worth $2 billion dollars

yeah I saw that for all of this to be in the hands of one guy I saw that Instagram video did you that was service to you as well But regardless of like the actual number, like, usually when things... He's a guy eating a bowl of ground beef. Nothing's more valuable in this world than pure protein and bluey. Oh, is that the Liver King's take? It is very rare for something this financially enormous to be in the bespoke hands of one guy and his mates in their studio in Brisbane.

Disney would like a lot more of this content. What makes it special is that it's not made that way. So it was interesting that there was a lot of quiet about a season four, and then it was announced that one new episode was going to debut last week, concurrently around the world, followed by a 28-minute episode, which is four times the length of an average bluey episode. And that was going to debut globally at the same time on Sunday,

which had people really, I was going to say it had the wags, which is not about tales, really, you know, chattering about what this could mean. Is this a finale? is this test run for a movie. What significant event is coming? And I won't spoil everything completely. Well, I guess if you have kids, you've seen it already.

Does Bluey have endgame in it? Or is it just like seven minutes of like a dog, right? That is the saddest thing you have ever said in 12 years of this podcast. One day you and your 15-year-old Ward Frank will sit down. Well, he'll be tired. We immediately go to Fight Club. We immediately start from. Watching it or having one?

That's how I choose my word. Okay. Is whoever bests me? Wow. Wow. CR's PR is going to be working triple time this week to clean up the mess from this episode. What's beautiful about the show is that, yes, it is essentially status quo of the life of the healer family. But there are little filigrees and the margins about the adult's lives as well and the passage of time.

And it does not shy away from bigger ideas. and issues. And so there was a sense that they were going to try to do something larger. You know, and when I say bigger issues, it's like, are Blue and Bingo going to have separate bedrooms? Like, are we things like that? The end, the, I don't want to say, penultimate, but at least for now, penultimate episode that debuted last week was very typical in a lot of ways where Bingo and Bluey are playing a game that involves their parents. And, but at the end and their dad is pretending. to be a realtor showing the house to a potential buyer and the girls are being their alter ego

characters with these grannies who are messing everything up. It's very funny, very clever. At the end of the episode, you see that the house is actually for sale. And this was a seismic, seismic thing. And what's the, what's the market like where these guys live in Brisbane? Robust. It is, this house is. Are people like waving inspections and stuff? This is the nicest house any of us will ever see in our lifetime. Okay. This animated house in the beautiful tropical climate of coastal, Australia. And so this last episode, the 28-minute episode, the title had been announced ahead of time.

It was the sign. So everyone's like, oh, okay. So now we're really dealing with it. They're moving. But also, is that at 28 minutes? What's left for them to talk about? And some people correctly pointed out, and Chris, you're going to be on me for this. Obviously, the girl's former babysitter Frisky is engaged to their uncle Radley. And so there was a wedding. And they were right about that as well. Okay. People who don't know what I'm talking about, who like Colin from accounts, the guy Patrick Bramble voices on Claudeau. Oh, cool.

And Claudia O'Dowardy, who does, she's in the killing it. Is that what the name of the show is, the Craig Robinson show? She does the voice. Frisky. Anyway,

this episode was, I want to, can I shout out my children? I want to shout them out because did they wake up early and watch this without me? Yes. Yeah.

Did they spoil it for me? No. Did they know it was coming? Yes. It was on the streets that this was happening? Oh, yeah. Okay. They were dialed in.

In the forums? But they didn't. Yeah, 8chan was all over it. Thanks, buddy. They waited to watch it with me. Okay. And so it is... Wait, they didn't.

I thought they got up early. They watched it without me, did not spoil it, and watched it again with me. Okay. What was interesting about my experience, I feel like I'm in a zag in a way. They were like, Dad, you're going to cry. You're going to cry, Dad. You're going to cry. Chris, I didn't cry.

Okay. So the episode is beautiful. and I think that if absolutely might be the end, it could be a finale. It also could be, and I think likely is a dry run for a movie or for some longer form storytelling that maybe they want to try to do in the future. There's room for that. Like everything the show does, it is, it's like hilarious, it's beautiful, it's amazing. If you don't have kids, if you don't know what I'm talking about, you should watch this.

Okay. Do I have to watch 342 episodes of Bleeding? No, although you'll want to, but I've provided a top 10 list of the best ones to watch in the past. Anyway, its message of like, we don't know if the future is going to be bad or good, but like, we'll see is really great. At the end of the episode, Chris, it blinks. It walks them to the edge of moving. In fact, all their stuff moves out. They get in the car and the girl's really upset and Chile, the mom is upset, but they're moving to a new city because dad got a better job in podcasting.

He's going to be the new third chair. Big picture. Sorry you had to find out this way. and but then a series of like things that have been set in motion in the background mirroring this idea of like we don't know what fate will bring if it's good or bad leads to the potential buyers seeing another house that they wanted all coming apart and then in a wordless montage bandit the dad gets the call rips the sold sign off the for sale sign and then rips the for sale sign out of the ground chili tackles him with happiness and then the family is back in their house oh man eating how soft take away fish and chips before the furniture gets put back in. No. And here's my thing. I don't know what this says about me.

You care a lot about escrow rules. No, I have advised you in the past. You can back out any time. I buy properties constantly. Just to fuck with people. No, I was, and I wonder where this is the moment when the show diverges from its purpose as a kids show to like adults are digging it to or parents are being seen by it.

But I kind of was wondering, like, the show is running into something that happens to a lot of people. Like kids' lives are upended. They move. Yeah. And then our kid's now going to be like, well, at the last second, this all might work out my way and we won't have to do it. Did the show flinch? And a lot of people seem to be like, this show's a masterpiece.

I we wept. And then in the interviews of the creators, they're like, you know, we couldn't do that. Like this place, this home means so much to so many people and even to us creatively. Like we couldn't actually do it. Hmm. And I'm like... You're manipulative. A little manipulative.

This is what you're thinking too. Yeah, you know, it's like you and I are two grown men who got really upset about Chewbacca not getting killed. You know, it's like if you're going to, if you're going to put your cards out. With furry friends. Yeah. Like, take the leap. Take the big swing. Yeah. I don't know. So I was interested in my response in a way that I will be processing perhaps in therapy for quite some time. But it was- Did you show like your kids wanting you to cry? Did you give that to them in some sort of fake way? Or were you just like that wasn't sad? Never show weakness. Right. In front of an adult. No. Never back out of a deal.

Exactly. Your word is your bond in this life, girls. No, I think they were I mean, they were very happy because both they wanted the fictional girls to be happy, but also they were like I mean, they're real estate junkies. They've moved from the hot spot of New York to Los Angeles.

They were like, you don't give up a house like that. It has great bones. They really were weirdly real estate focused. They were like, nothing is going to be as nice as that house. As a house, yeah. It's a great yard. Their uncle, their uncle just got married in it. So I don't know. It was a huge deal for those of us. I mean, it sounds like it was a huge deal

globally. It was. Yeah. This is one of the two biggest streaming series in the world, I think. The only other thing I wanted to talk to you about... The other is the gold. Did you know that? That's the other biggest show in the world. Was Sarring Night Live. I want to talk about this with you. Which we made

a joke to you about it just because my way of watching Saturday Live now is primarily through YouTube's the next day. But you watch it more than I realized because when I brought it to you like, I check something out and I really want to talk about it. I didn't watch the entire see it. entirety of the show, but I think I did via YouTube. So I watched the monologue. I watched the papyrus

sequel with Gosling. I watched the Beavis and Butthead sketch, which was very funny. Did you watch the aliens opening? I did. I watched the guy who's whispering about how he needs to leave his wife or his fiance. Did you watch the digital short of the country song? I did. I did. So did you set the scene, or is it 11.30 p.m.? You fired it up? No, I peacocked it the next day. But I did it because America's Canadian sweetheart, Ryan Gosling, was the host. And first of all, I had forgotten that as recently as, I guess, I think now it's 10 years ago, but we did a big S&L bracket at Grantland, and we were all participated in this, like the greatest cast member.

And I was reading this two pieces I wrote for that thing. And I was like, well, we really were still kind of you and I. I mean, I know America is still watching Saturday Night. Grappling at SML is like an institution. And I've been away from it for a very long time. And I was struck by two things. how with the right host, the show just slays.

Like, it still works. Everything about it was bright. It was funny. Like, everyone was really excited about him. Clearly, he was making everybody laugh. It brought out the best in people. And then, like, Caitlin Clark drops by. I think they've had two straight episodes of, like,

a dizzying amount of, like, because the Kristen Whig episode was, like, tons of people were on. Kate McKinnon came back for this one. Yeah, and Kate McKinnon was on this one, Gosling. It's a separate conversation, but, like, is it the SNLing of everything? or is it the Coachella of everything,

that now it's really all about who you bring out. That's a really good point. It's less about what your baseline is. But I was interested in both like, man, this still works when it works. But also, I wondered if there was a counter argument to be made, which is watching SNL

and that very limited sample size. But it appears to that, they appear to have no stars in the cast at this moment. It feels like a transitional, quiet, like, repertory thing, which might be great then when you have Ryan Gosling,

drop into the lap. But in a week when, and obviously they'll never do this again, but if it's like a Justin Bieber hosting, the show would probably be a mess. Like this week, there were no political impersonations because they just had... Is there anything happening in politics this week? No, everything's fine. Everything is fine. But not even just the political thing, but like, you know, the go-to when they didn't have, you know, for decades, when they don't have a lot going on, they're like, well, what impersonations do you do? We'll do a game show. Yeah. You know, they didn't need to do anything. Well, and they also, with Gosling, because he's been on a couple times and has been so successful in the past. They had like some sequels.

They did and they lived up to the... I thought it was very funny. I was going to ask you whether where you fall on the like breaking or not breaking, are you pro-breaking in a sketch? I think that it can be gratuitous like in the Fallon days, but he was also in a hot tub with Will Ferrell. So I don't understand how you're supposed to be better than that. I think it can be a bit much. But again, the thing that makes the show

special always is the unpredictability and the live part of it. And it just... Heidi Garder cracking up when she, finally turns around and sees the guy dressed his butthead is fucking amazing. It might end up being like the most iconic break since Cowbell. You know, like it's just too much. Yeah. But that's what makes the show great.

It's infectious, you know. He really is a magical unicorn. Anything else from this weekend? You just like seems like you were getting a lot of screen time. Kaya, do you have any SNL opinions as a coming at it from a different generational perspective than we are? Is it something that you check for? I would say I rarely, if ever, watch full episodes.

of S&L. I think if there's a skit that's going like particularly viral, I'll try to seek that out, like the one that happened this weekend. I haven't watched it yet, but... The bevis in my head one? It's incredible. Sounds fun. But is there anyone in your even peripheral paying attention to the show who you're like, oh, Punky Johnson got to tune in? Like there's someone or Andrew Dismukes, that's my guy. Like, is there anyone in this cast? I'm not saying there there are people who are very solid who filling out all these sketches. I don't know. I don't know if anyone who I'm like, I can't wait for this. person to start making movies. But I also just, I watch the show and like the way Kai is describing it.

It's like basically part of my social media. Maybe like Bowen Yang. Yeah, he's, I guess he's, he pops the most, but he also like, there were a couple sketches where Gosling is the star and then it's it's Heidi Gardner, it's Boen Yang, it's Mikey Day. Like I recognize these people. They're talented and they're really good supporting in the sense of like in a comedy. They are supporting the sketch. Who's the guy who did, he was the guy yelling in Jumanji's sketch. And then he's the one that Gosling is whispering to in the like I have to get away from my fiance sketch. I think it's dismukes.

Okay, he's pretty funny. Yeah. They're solid. What's the, what, did you watch Weekend update? I saw, this was the Caitlin Clark week. Yeah, I saw that.

I didn't realize that it had just become like those two guys seeing what they can get away with. Yeah. I'm not mad at it. There were some funny jokes. There were funny jokes. Yeah, SNL's pretty good. It's still pretty good.

I, I feel almost bad because I'm like, I hope that this model of it's just like a day after phone scroll experience for so many people is working for them. Well, it is if you do what I do. If you watch on Peacock, they're happy. You just like cobbling it together through, you know, illegal torrents. No, it's just all on YouTube.

But is the screen flipped and it's in Russian? Is that the way you watch it? Yeah, it's about I voted four times watching this. I'll tell you another thing. I'm going to see the fall guy in the theater. It worked. Yeah? It worked on me.

Are you going to see Civil War? I'd like to, but I can't say I'm seeking it out. Okay. Because. Spirited debate on the big picture. I'm very pro-sivor war. I, right before, right after you guys recorded that last week, we ran into Amanda and she told me she had dropped the Alex Garland as Emerald Fennell for dudes.

Yeah. And I've never been the same. Honestly, it's incredible. It's incredible. It's incredible. It's incredible. Oh, right. You like Emerald Fennell.

I think, yeah. I did. helper and was good. You know what you like? You like to be shocked. You know you like provocation. I do. You really do. I really do. I really do. The only other thing I saw this week is the opposite of a provocation and I watched the film Perfect Days. The Avengers movie? Yes, which you have not seen. I have not. It's a perfect movie.

Great. I can't wait to check it out. Absolutely joyous, beautiful movie. Perfect Days. I loved it. The playoffs are here and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul Predicts. Follow All the playoff dishes, swishes, wishes, wishes, and misses. Predict the spread, the total points, and even the game winner. Sign up for Fandual Predicts and predict it from the couch. Offered by Fandual Prediction Markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant.

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fast, available in select areas. Terms apply. Should we talk about the Sympathizer? Let's talk about both these shows. More shows. Sympathizer and fallout. Yeah, more shows, man. Let's go. Where are you in Ripley, by the way? Just out of curiosity. Did you stay at, are you still at three?

I'm parked. I'm idling. I have a... My boat is idling in the harbor. I can sense that you... You love Ripley and deeply respect it. Yes. But are not looking forward to watching it.

That's not true. That's not true. Much like the Civil War kind of? No, no, no. It's not that. No, Ripley is, I am actually savoring, and I have not had a high opinion of my attention span recently despite what I just told you.

Like I have been very busy with work and like in the middle of two books. Got to watch Blue twice. Children, you know, want to watch Blue again. So, no, I'm just kind of trying to carve out the right times for it. Okay. Oh, do you think it's because of these sort of excruciating things to come? Yes. I think that as you kind of sense, oh, okay, I see what's happening here.

I've watched, I'm up to episode six now. I'm about to embark on episode six. Is your enthusiasm level still the same? It's higher. Really? I don't think this show could be any higher in my estimation. Wow. I mean, a lot of it is the filmmaking,

and a lot of that dovetels very nicely with the sympathizer. I think I am maybe going swinging too far in the sense. I'm like, oh, I need to, I need to savor every moment of this, and it's actually keeping me from watching. It's like having a wine that you spent a little too much money on, but now's not the night to open it. I know what you mean. I know what you mean.

Sympathizer. Yeah. created by Park Chanwick and Don McKellar based on the novel of the same name by Vietan Huin. And the first episode is directed by Park Chanwick, who's obviously... He directed the whole thing. Yeah. Didn't he? On Wikipedia, it says that Fernando Morales and Mark Mundin directed a bunch of episodes, so I don't know.

Is that why Fernando didn't direct episode three of Sugar? I don't know. And I actually have a conversation I want to have with you about direction and TV now. Okay, okay. And that's a good, good entry point. Thought this was a absolute fucking perfect pilot. Like, very dense. Yeah.

Very, like, a lot of stuff coming at you at once. It follows a man named Captain, played by Wahjonde, who is essentially a double agent working both for the communist north and the South, in the CIA, in fact, in the final days before the fall of Saigon. And the episode itself, the first episode, starts out with essentially like almost explicit references to French New Wave, like Jean-Luc d'Guardar style filmmaking, and then moves into an almost like peak-coaked-out Scorsese kind of energy with the camera, with voiceover, with editing, with redoing scenes in different ways to show different.

versions of this person's memory, I was absolutely floored by this. And I, maybe it's in my bad because this is, I shockingly have not read this novel, but the fall of Saigon is of like historical moments is my Roman Empire. And so I've read several, several books about it. What did you think? Well, I think a couple things. And if I'm leading too much, if you think that, No, no, no, no, I'm with you. I loved it. I guess I wanted to start with just the book to say that, like, you remember how throughout the 90s, it was one of my favorite recurring bits with you, was that every few weeks or every few months

you would sit down with a Thomas Pynchon book, Gravity's Rainbow, and you'd be like, I've read the first page, then be like, not today's Satan, and then you wouldn't read more than that. Like, I'm embarrassed to say, that's me with a sympathizer. It is my number one most picked up book of the last decade. It won the Pulitzer Prize in 2015. Yeah, he's doing fine without us. Yeah, but it seems like a book I would love to read. And now, doubly so now.

So I wish that I could come in and talk about it, but maybe it's good to just appreciate this for what it is. Also, Don McKellar, whose name didn't ring any bells until I googled him and realized that he made, that he's a Canadian filmmaker who worked with Adam McGowan a lot. And I remember his movie last night about the night before the earth ends. Oh, yeah. I remember seeing in the theater at the Ritz and Philly.

Like, this guy's just been making movies and been in the... So he wasn't just picked up off the picket last summer to like adapt this thing for 824. Get an overall. And you get an overall. And the other thing we didn't really mention that we're going to get into is that it's A24 and it's Team Downey. Yes. And Mr. Downey is in it as all of the end-aginess.

This is a great litmus for whether or not you buy what Downey is selling. So let's put that aside for a moment to say that I want to try on a different hat than the one that I usually wear in this podcast, which is when Sam Esmail comes on and yells at us about what great filmmaking is. And I'm like, I'm kind of a story guy. Great filmmaking is fucking amazing. It is a privilege to watch. And we saw our guide director park do this with Little Drummer Girl a few years ago. In fact, I would say there are some recurring images. Very much so.

But regardless of even the specific images, his absolute mastery of camera movement and production design and how you can marry those two in the service of a story that is totally, that is period, but utterly vital and totally transporting is just, it's incredible. It's incredible the way this draws you in. Even those opening, and you said Scorsese, which is correct, because I feel like the person I was going to mention is a disciple of Scorsese, but there's a Tarantino element to it as well, not just from the fonts, but sort of the centrality of cinema and fiction to the story.

And that opening moment when the Emmanuel billboard is being carted out and Death Wish is being brought in so good. And so gripping. And I also just love that there's just a kind of a professionalism when you have a grade A filmmaker making something. And it's not just in the production design, it's in the cast as well. You mentioned Wash One Day, who I'm not familiar with.

He's an Australian actor who, I guess there was a New York Times profile. He's like, I did not audition for this thinking I would be the star. He's magnetic. He's charismatic. As are the actors playing his friends. absolutely flies. And I didn't think, I mean, you were saying about like a perfect pilot,

it's very, it's filmmaking, right? So there's like, there's jumps around, there's repetition. Yeah. You have to follow it very closely. And yet somehow I didn't think that it was going to kick into the gear that it kicked into in the last 15 minutes.

Yes, with the escape onto the C-130 to get out of Saigon. To get out of Saigon. I did not see that coming. I did not know that that was the gear that we were going into in this first episode and it left me breathless. Yeah.

I thought that the last 15 minutes were really, really, really gripping. I was a little bit thrown off by maybe the VFX of that whole experience with the bus flipping over. But it was a really like amazing exit. And what a way to end the first episode. Like you are definitely coming back next week to find out what happens to this guy. I'm curious to hear about like the for general audiences or maybe audience. who haven't done a lot of reading about the end of the Vietnam War,

whether or not they felt like they were in over their heads with history and information, you know, just quite frankly. Because it was funny, I was joking with Joanna today, and she was like, how, you're pretty lucky, like, to have, like, these shows that are, like, right in your wheelhouse in a lot of ways. And I was like,

it is kind of like the miracle of this period is, like, there's kind of something for everybody. But this is so dialed into the kinds of things that I'm interested in and where it's like espionage as identity and leads you into questions about like who we are and what we are and how we remember the things

that have happened to us and how we tell the story once we remember those things and yeah like and that kind of duality is baked into it because the author when like he's an American Vietnamese American author and so the way that this show

I imagine the book interrogates American involvement in the war from multiple from a multiple Plicity of perspectives. The show is attempting to do that as well. And I've, at least through one episode, I find that really successful and also really, um, provocative and fresh. Yeah. You know, from the perspective of like lived in life, like the three blood brothers who are following in the, in the pilot, like having beers before their cities, their city falls and their life changes. But all three of them are on different sides. Yes. Yeah. And then I think, uh, it's worth mentioning that I don't know if the show necessarily gets made without

Downey. He certainly seems to think so. Well, it's interesting you should say that because I can understand why, like in the first scene when Downey's character, Claude, who is a CIA agent and Downey is going to be playing multiple characters over the course of this series, but when his character comes up

to Captain outside of the movie theater and it's like, okay, looks like Ham is back on the menu, boys, you know? But then over the course of the episode, I found myself forgetting him. You know, forgetting it's downy and just being like, what an amazing characterization, you know, and what an amazing performance. It's interesting. So his, so for people, I think we sort of alluded to this. Like, he plays all of the white antagonists in the show. So the character he's playing in the first episode, Claude, who's a, he plays it, you know, he makes some choices, but it is a type that we've seen in movies before.

Yeah, it's like the shadowy CIA handler. Who seems more comfortable when things turn to shit. Yeah. But he will appear in other roles going forward, filmmaker, a professor, etc., etc. I wonder if you and I, because we're not watching ahead. I think we got screeners, but I've only seen this one. If we'll feel differently as he continues to turn up, whether that will make this experiment more successful or less successful, if the vibe is intentionally what it is.

Because it did take me out a little bit, only because I carried into it this thought of, like, that's the only face I recognize. And he's not exactly disappearing into the wallpaper. See, I think everyone else is excellent. I found him to disappear over the course of the episode. And I wonder whether or not there's something of like, there's going to be a sticker shock sensation when you first see Downey in each one of these episodes. And then he's going to recede into the character themselves over the course of it.

Like, I think by the time he drives off in the motorcycle at the end of this episode, I was like, there goes Claude. Not there goes Robert Downey. There's a scene in this show. in this first episode, Andy alluded to it. By the way, I just did confirm. You're right. Wikipedia is right. Director Park only did the first three.

So this kind of leads into a thing I wanted to ask you about. This is becoming a pretty common setup for prestige shows where a pretty big name director takes on maybe more than the first one or the first two of the episodes. Traditionally, like you can go back to Carrie Fukunaga, kind of breaking into this world with doing the entire first season of True Detective. You have Jane Campion doing the entirety of Top of the Lake. There's obviously precedence for great filmmakers to be like,

I'm going to go take on the entirety of a season of television. And it's an incredibly difficult thing to do. I mean, for as hard as I'm sure it is to write, to be the person who is literally like on set shooting every shot of an episode. And also to map out, you know, to just be like, you know. Not never been done. Historically had not been done. Historically had not been done.

I think there's one way in which James Brows can direct lots of the episodes of Cheers. There's another way in which Carrie Fukunaga is like blocking and charting out shots for an entire season of television written by Nick Pizzolato. And I found TV

to be at this kind of curious crossroads where on one hand there's obviously still an interest in bringing filmmakers into the table and either selling a project because so-and-so is directing it frankly in this case. I'm pretty interested in this material anyway,

but the fact that Director Park is on it is like, that's a major deal for me. He directed all of Little Drummer Girl. He sure did. I almost wonder sometimes if the great filmmaker is going to do half this season or a few episodes

works against the show. It 100% does. And that's finally I can talk about sugar, which I'm sticking with because I love Colin Farrell and I now I need to know what the twist is. My fears about the show, as we talked about last week,

were realized in the third episode for two reasons. One is it's now just becoming like twist dependent. But the biggest reason is, and I mean no disrespect to a guy who is very, very good at what he does and has been directing excellent television for a long time. But off the back of a notepad, I could not come up with two directors more different than Fernando Morales and Adam Arkin. And what that does to a show that is so much based on style and anticipation when it just becomes kind of more. by the book, more grounded TV directing, is wild. Yeah. It's like, it's like a, it's like an Instagram filter coming off.

Like, oh, we're just looking at these guys walk around and drive. I'm less interested. Yeah. It hurts it. Now, what's the truth here? Probably somewhere in the middle. But when a filmmaker comes in with a complete point of view and elevates it, especially if you're able to like, if you're buying what they're selling, you're in the clouds.

and then you crash harder if they can't do it anymore. That's my thing, is that it's almost, I understand the necessity of having somebody direct an early episode to create the visual language for a show. And nine times out of 10, you know, I think like, for instance, Jason Bateman directed a lot of Ozark or directed a fair amount of the first and last season, if I remember correctly.

But like, more or less, like, establishes the way Ozark is going to be lit, maybe how certain things are going to be shot. But Ozark, for as much as I like it, is not the sympathizer in terms of how it's made and the distinct visual flair. And I don't know whether this is a situation where schedules came up or maybe even like there was a disagreement. I have no idea why Parkshanwick is not directing the entirety of this. Yeah, it's interesting. And we can look into it. But like, he did take a writing credit on every episode.

So he was clearly, or at least believes that he was involved in more than just his first. episodes. I'll also say that the drop-off fourth episode is directed by Fernando Morellis, who I'm talking about leaving sugar. And Fernando Morales, I could see having a real affinity for this material as well because of some of his other work.

And the final three episodes directed by Mark Mundin who did the third day. That super weird Jude Law show that we really love and he did Utopia in UK. So this is, these are heavy hitters. Now, can they all play together? TBD. Because when you direct something the way Park did for the first episode,

how do you sustain that? Like, how do you do... If he's like, hey, I've read this scene that takes place in the movie theater in the first episode of Sympathizer, and there's basically a scene where more or less all the major characters are gathered in an empty cinema

watching an interrogation take place on the stage in front of the screen of a North Vietnamese spy. And, unbeknownst to everybody else in that theater except for Captain is that the spy's source or partner. And you're watching this, person be blinded by the lights of the movie theater.

There's all this recurring both like as an idea but also as a visual like a camera role starting, like a cinema like camera projector starting. He's being told to talk into the cinema at the beginning of the episode when he's recounting what's happened to him. So there's just this magical moment where he's shooting it at a distance. He's doing like all these different things up on stage. He's doing so fucking much. It's like obviously shot to an inch of its life in the.

most glorious way. It's like, how do you then just be like, all right, man, you're next. Have a good one, Fernando. Well, I think what that does is these moments in this conversation we're talking about are, we're really hitting on a kind of breaking point that I think the industry has reached because there was a period when, you know, in the century, when you would hire a director to do the pilot to set a visual tone to get checks in perpetuity like McGee directing the OC pilot. definitely Park Chenwick McG all in the same universe but it was open-ended so what happened afterwards you know you would let it go I think it becomes more challenging when you're trying to sell a prestige product as a complete statement which is where we ended up for a bunch of years here

right where it's like it this is a this should be considered a complete work of art which is what caused some people like our friend Sam like director Park with little drummer girl to do the whole thing because just put this on the DVD next to their other stuff in the future that this is also their vision. Just you know, conversationalally, like

things, the industry has changed so much that it's been told to me and I'm living through it that like a year ago, projects going out on the town for sale were almost all attaching a director ahead of time. Now that is not consistent. considered a value at. They are not. Like, do not take time to do that anymore. Right. Not just because,

I mean, for a variety of reasons, one of which is which directors really move the needle, A, B, you're not competing against as many people anymore. I think you had to secure talent ahead of time because everyone was in so demand and now a lot of people are looking for work. But also, it's just like, what are you getting if they're not doing the whole series? Yeah. And does it actually put you at a disadvantage? Yes, exactly. And I mean that both ways. In some cases, it could be a situation where a filmmaker does such a great job with it and has such a distinctive approach that it's hard to map it onto the other episodes. You can also have a situation like the Carrie Fukenaga one and Masters of the Air, which I think I was pretty open about, really loving the Bowden Fleck episodes of those,

but feeling like carries were pretty inert and that there would have been maybe a different show in there if they had gotten off of Carrie Fukunaga earlier than the first, I think he does the first four or five episodes. I think that also potentially, I didn't watch it, but I think that speaks to, the perpetual tension in TV between writer and director and whose show is it. And some shows succeed when you lean more into the direction.

I'm concerned sugar might be one of them. But other shows where it's like the real appeal is always going to be the characters and the way they're written. You could step back. Anyway, this is all, I worry we're veering into the theoretical because we've only watched one episode.

Yeah. And we have two more park episodes to come. To savor. But it does seem, not to do my usual doom and gloom thing, but like, yeah, A-24, Team Downey, Park Chanwick, making this show seems very, very pre-strike to me. Sure.

But I hope people check it out because I certainly want, I want this. Dazzled. Dazzled. And like you said, we are in like some kind of weird high watermark of like, I thought it was gone. I thought this era was going to be over of like people just getting after it filmmaking-wise. I hadn't felt like this in a while. These episodes of Ripley where it's just like basically like watching action. Andrew Scott move through space is...

Like outer space? No, it's mostly like Zalian cooking with Robert Ellswick while this guy walks up and down streets and up and downstairs. I'd watch that. Well, you can. It's on the Netflix Corporation. Wait till you see what VimVendors does with a humble Tokyo toilet cleaner in the film Perfect Days. This episode is brought to you by the active cash credit card from Wells Fargo.

That's a mouthful, but that's because it packs a lot in. Earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases with it, big or small. So whether it's buying tickets at the game or grabbing a coffee, it earns unlimited 2% cash rewards

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active cash terms apply. Do you want to talk a little bit about Fallout? I do. Do you want me to go first? Yeah.

Why not? Well, I feel like I'll just be telling you things you know. I can do a little set. You're a gamer, you know. Not this one.

one. No. I mean, when they make FIFA. The movie? But about your journey? Yeah, about me taking Nottingham Forest to quadruple.

Wasn't that the Grand Theresa movie where they made a movie about a kid who plays the game but they got to... It was supposed to be right. That's you. This is a adaptation of multiple fallout video games, I think,

because from what I understand, there are little bits and pieces from across this multi-title franchise of a video game. It comes to us from Jonathan Nolan and Lease Joy, who previously worked on Westworld. They had like another Amazon show. Peripheral.

They moved after Westworld ended unceremoniously. They moved their overall deal to Amazon. This is the second fruit of that labor. Although they did not show run this. I didn't realize this. He directed the first few episodes. But a different show running team whose names I will Google while you vamp can let us know. Okay.

This stars Ella Parnell who is in... Sweet Bitter. Sweet Bitter. but also yellow jackets I think. Graham Wagner and Geneva, Robertson, Dwaris. So they came in and did it?

They are the credited creators and writers and showrunners of this. Nolan and Joy are EPs who brought this in under their overall deal. Interesting. But also when you read, and Nolan directed the first three episodes,

when you read a little bit of like the development, it says like Bethesda Games resisted entreaties to adapt this until Jonathan Nolan came in and pitched it. So it could be that he had a bit of a notion, and then these two writers came on and fleshed it out. Unclear.

But that's the team. What we got here is another in what feels like a long line of like vaguely dystopian post-apocalyptic road movies. I think it very much feels a piece of The Last of Us. It feels a piece of Westworld. Can you say it? Can you use the Mando voice to say, Silo!

Silo! It's like you're not going to believe what's on the other side of this wall stuff. I am a huge fan of Walton Gagons and watching him play a noseless ghoul or noseless bounty hunter named the ghoul is definitely pretty amusing. You don't get much of that in the first episode.

I already feel 11 hours behind on this show because they put up the entire season. For whatever reason, and I guess we'll get to the bottom of it, this didn't really work for me. And it's not actually, I'm not trying to be dismissive. I think, honestly,

in comparison to the other shows that we're watching right now, tonally, I was just like, this is not where my head is out right now. Yeah, I mean, I think the positive side of the ledger, I want to say that, like,

from what I understand, the games, you know, are open world and each have their own point of view and protagonist characters, and what seems to be really smart here, from what I understand, is that Nolan was like,

I'm going to tell a story in this world. That doesn't contradict the other ones, but like the Lucy character is not the main character in any of the games. This is just drawn from a world where this all happened, where there was a nuclear war in kind of a 50s-Jetons-type time,

and then we're in a 200 years in the future where it's like steampunk apocalypse. Right. So good job. I mean, I think that's a smart way to do an adaptation. I also think that the color scheme of it is really smart and bright, and I think that the casting, too,

is really good across the board, whether it's Walton Goggins or it's Kyle McLaughlin, Zach Cherry. Sarita Chowdry, right? Sarita Chowdhury, Zach Cherry from Severance,

and then, you know, just going off the Wikipedia, like future, the whole episode, the whole season is up, so people know this, but it would be news to us that Matt Barry is in a John Daly,

Chris Parnell, like a lot of funny people. And even like Michael Christopher for Mr. Robot showing up. Oh, yeah, as the King Arthur guy. Kind of, yes. Really smart.

One of the issues I have is that this show being billed like a dystopian action comedy and then this cast. But Jonathan Nolan or any Nolan doing it, it reminds me of the episode of extras where Liam Neeson wants to do improvisational comedy. And he's just like, I've developed full-blown aides. And Ricky Trevace is like, I'm so sorry.

It's not necessarily, these aren't the people you turn to for bright, you know, subversive comedic take on things. Yeah, I got the feeling like this got boys pilled somewhere along the line and that there's a lot of tonal, like, similarities to the two shows. I have a kind of unfortunate kind of heel-turn take on this, which I think through one episode, an hour and 15-minute episode, which I watched, I promise, I think this might be the best video game adaptation ever made, certainly for television.

What's it up against? Last of Us. You think that this is better than Last of Us. Oh, yeah. You think that Fallout is better than Last of Us. As a successful adaptation, I think probably, yeah. But how would you even quantify that? you haven't played the game.

Because I think none of these things should exist. That's my heel turn. That is my turn. Like, I'm happy for you. This is like the triple Salkow of takes. It's like, not only is this better than the thing that everybody loves, but they both suck.

Is that your take? It's not that they suck. I feel the same way about this that I feel about people getting excited about X-Men 97, which is I'm very happy for you. Genuinely. Yes.

The joy you are getting from this is unquantifiable. from bluey and Vendors. Yes. Yes. We all deserve our things that make us happy. And I am not here

to poo-poo it or put it down. It's just that like, the thing that boggled my mind in this and it connected to Last of us to a degree is just like to strap on your creative pith helmet every day and be like, time to blow up the world again.

It bums me out. I don't know why this story is being told to us. Like, I don't know what we're gaining artistically or culturally or societally from it. It's just that like the video game has cool effects and an interesting idea. So we're going to devote tens of millions of dollars of Amazon's money to bring it to

bloody life. And it's like, okay, I guess everybody's got to get paid somehow. I guess for me it's actually not having played the video games is to me an advantage because I have no, I don't really. Now I think in Last of Us you can either have been a video game fanatic and played it and been like, oh my God, I can't believe this is coming to life. Or you can be like, I have no idea what any of you guys are talking about.

just a really good story. Right. With Fallout, I'm a little bit like, I can tell that there's a lot going on on screen that means a ton to somebody who played the video game that I don't care about. I guess that... And I don't know why it's at once a Western, a Jetsons thing, and then also like a tech war... Like a Mech like fucking Knights thing. It's also like, yeah, it's like Dark Hello Tomorrow, the show that Apple Memory Hold last year.

Oh, yeah. I want to refine my controversial take. You've made a really key point here. Thanks. Craig Mason and HBO did a very Craig Mason and HBO thing, which is they took an obsessively beloved video game, and they were like, what's the universal... I thought you were to say obsessively beloved.

Nobody loves Chernobyl more than nights. We are passionate. Chernobyl is kind of like my fall of Saigon, you know, if I had to put it in Chris Parlins. Sure. And they made it, and it is universal. in a way that is very successful. And it's because of the way it was cast,

because of the way that Mason filled out the margins of the show, with, of course, everyone's going to point to the third episode, the Nick Offerman, yeah. Yes. So if the mission is to bring in people and find the universality of it, like the way Feige did in the early days of Marvel, like that is superior. And that is going to be nominated and win Emmys,

and this show is not. The thing that I appreciated about this is, to me, it felt like the most successful attempt to wrap one's arms around the fact that video games are toys that don't have to make sense. And I mean that not dismissively because I say that about comic books too. Like when comic book things embrace the thing that is really hard to translate into a blockbuster movie, which is just like, oh, this planet is a living alien that eats other planets and also is the personification of time. And someone's dad. And it's Kurt Russell. I'm like, that's comic books. That's why you.

read them. It's not because the heroes always win at the end. It's because it's like, what the fuck? This show does that, I think, in a way, in that it's like goofy but also balletically violent and all of those other that when she goes out into

the world, they shot those parts in Namibia. Did you see that? Shout out Amazon's overall budget. It's wild. It's out there. It's just wild and out there in a way where I'm like it's not for me. And so do you think you'll watch any more of this?

I am going to sit here and tell you I do not think that I will. Do you? I have to say that the, I know that they get shorter, and I know that this sounds like, really like somebody helped the old man get into his car or something. You guys got to stop the 65-minute episodes to start a season. Yeah, brother. You guys got to fucking knock it off.

And Amazon does this a lot, and there are lots of shows I like on Amazon. But this is a boys thing, too. and it sucks. It's too long. These scenes go on too long. It also telegraphs what's going to happen. I was going to say that real fucking early. And then you're like, we have to like 20 minutes for this girl's fake wedding did not work out.

Yeah, we're still going to sit here and watch people who clearly have never seen food before. Yeah. Like, we see what's coming. Yeah. And it feels that is when they're doing that is the time where I'm like, I feel like I'm part of an algorithm. I feel like they did some study. of like, if people stay engaged with the service for 58 minutes or more, they may buy a fucking vacuum cleaner.

And I'm like, I hate this. I'm with you. And if you're going to make something 65 minutes, at least have the decency to make it energetic. Whereas like, if the sympathizer was 20 more minutes, I don't really, I wanted to start the next episode right away. You know, like I love, I don't mind something being long if it's got some verve and some cinematic energy

and some sparkle. My counter to that is, again. This is like a whole fucking preamble, and like we haven't even gotten to like most these characters together yet. I completely agree with you. But I also do want to point out that I think that it's incredibly successful for an assignment that I think is kind of nonsense. Like it's an impossible assignment. But within that, breaking up the 65 minutes into clearly delineated segments called The End, Lucy, Maximus, and The Goal, had some verve, some wit, like, okay. because I think they understood that really the way to tell the story would be to do one character experiencing things.

But then it's just silo. And then you'd also get people being like, what about this character from the view? What about that world? So in terms of like Jonathan Nolan clearly, the Nolan family in general, they have an uncanny knack of approaching artistic situations as problem solvers and breaking it into pieces and, you know, into using manipulating time. Like they're both really good at that. And so I appreciated. Respectfully, I'm going to need you to keep Christopher Nolan out of this. I'm just saying.

What was your take that fucking enraged me about what was something was better than? I was thinking about that today. I said Spiderverse was better than Killers the Flower Moon. Oh, yeah. You want to revisit that? No. I mean, like, we need to like not be like, it's not like from the maker of Oppenheimer. It's like they're separate guys.

They just have the last name. No, but I think that they share that. I mean, they've worked together before. In the past, yes. You want to spill some tea here? I'm trying to praise Jonathan Nolan and you won't let me do it. Because you're dragging down Christopher Nolan, who made Dunkirk and Oppenheimer and be like,

he too likes to jump around time. All of Christopher Nolan's movies are better than person of interest, okay? Okay? I'm not trying to get cute. I was just trying to say that that is something that I appreciate about this, the professionalism and thought that went into something that I never want to watch again. Okay. Right?

Yes. I guess I'm just trying to find a way to politely put this in that X-Men 97 zone, which is just like, I am happy. Have you jammed some 97? Yeah, I watched the first one. Yeah. Did you get to the one where everybody's like, I've been waiting for this my whole life? I guess not if you only watch the first one. No.

That's fine. I'm busy. It's fine. I didn't watch that cartoon. It's not generationally for us. I asked Charles this. What's the thing that cable is coming back to stop? The virus?

The techno-organic virus that he was infected. It's so important. But Nathan Summers is the son of Scott Summers and Madeline Pryor, who is the Goblin Queen, who is a Mr. Sinister-created clone of Gene Gray, who's... That's in this show. It's in Ex-Men 97, all that stuff. Yeah, it's in comic books that I read 30 years ago. I feel like rending on a sour note when we were so in love with each other and filmmaking. Just 10 minutes ago.

Your guy, Shogun director of Frederick E. O. Toy directs later episodes of... That sounds like, I'm sorry. Should we do a Shogun director draft? He directed episodes of Fallout. Good. I can't wait to see it. Wow. We are,

Kai, are we too negative about Fallout? Do you feel like, is there going to be Fallout from our fallout take? A, no one's going to be surprised, but B, I was open to liking it. I was definitely like, I love Goggins is my guy.

So I was definitely, and he's having a lot of fun. He's having a lot of fun. And also, weirdly, he's so good always that for people who haven't watched but are somehow still listening to this and part of the podcast,

the opening sequence where he is not yet a Google mutant. Yeah. he got to do something he almost never gets to do which would just be a normie. Yeah. He's just like a Western actor, yeah.

He's a great actor. Yeah, there's, I feel like the sourness crept more into my voice because I don't really want to watch more of this, but I really want to stress that I thought this was lowercase good. I thought they did a good job. It's just not for me. I don't know if they put that on the poster.

I don't think so, but I have said, but I've said in the past, I've gotten really agitated about things that I think are not for me, but also I think they are, like a crime against God. And I think that what you were hearing also in my controversial take was that I feel like people are gassing up Last of Us way beyond what it deserves because of its pedigree and its network

where this is just like, we're fucking around in the desert. And there's an honesty to that that I appreciate. Like Last of Us had a lovely episode where men fell in love with each other and chose to end their lives in a provocative way, but also it had mushroom virus. What's the wrong with that? Mushroom zombies. And we almost, yes, you can.

There's just you can't. You can have definitely have that. I know, but I do feel like there's a, do you remember the famous sketch from the state where it was just like, we are going to do highbrow comedy and lowbrow comedy. And on one side it was like Thomas Lennon in a smoking jacket telling a witty anecdote on the other side.

Ken Marino was in overalls on a like a whoopee cushion, right? And I feel like that there's, first of all, when those guys fell in love, you were like, this is as good as TV. It was. And what I'm saying is that you just don't like the mushrooms. I'm just saying.

I'm saying there are the two conversations about The Last of Us you meet in America, okay? And sometimes I don't think we're talking to each other about the same show. And they did a good job of triangulating it. Right? Yeah. But I don't know.

I like you getting out ahead of Last of Us backlash. I mean just like accepting it? A year early. You're like, I just want to let everybody know that I thought this was mid-2020. I said it then too. You did. You were always kind of,

Gorman. I am Lucy wandering out into the irradiated wasteland to take the slings and arrows for you. And because I no longer have the Andy Greenwald podcast to do that, I bring it home. Let's talk a little bit about what's coming up on the watch. Okay. We're never recording another episode. I've been canceled. No, on Thursday, we'll talk about Shogun and maybe a little bit more Ripley. Who knows? You could do a little more Ripley. I could catch up to you. Okay. And then, yeah, some exciting stuff coming with Shogun with some guests. When is Hax? Hacks is coming soon. May 2nd, I want to say.

Something like that. So after the fall guy in my watch calendar. After you've seen the fall guy multiple times? Multiple times. Thank you to Kaya for being so flexible today. It was a throwback to a 9 to 5 for her. I tried to stop her from coming to the office today, but she was already here. We got to get her out of here before traffic to the West Side gets bad.

Isn't it already bad? Yeah. I just wanted us to seem like good guys. In the mic, Kaya knows the truth. My God.