The Watch - 'Westworld' Returns and Bill Hader and Henry Winkler Talk ‘Barry’ | The Watch (Ep. 251)

Episode Date: April 23, 2018

The Ringer’s Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald give their initial reactions to the first episode of ‘Westworld’ Season 2 (5:30). Then, Bill Hader and Henry Winkler join in to discuss their acclaimed show, ‘Barry’ (28:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of The Watch is brought to you by HBO's Barry. Lights Camera Assassin from executive producers Bill Hater and Silicon Valley's Alec Berg. The new HBO comedy, Barry, centers on a depressed hitman who discovers a new passion for acting while on a job in Los Angeles. Hater stars as Barry as he struggles to balance the responsibilities of the life he has with the pursuit of his dreams, hilariously misfiring along the way. The series also stars Henry Winkler, Stephen Root, and Sarah Goldberg. New episodes of Barry premiere on Sundays on H. HBO at 1030 p.m. Today's episode of The Watch is brought to you by Seekkeek.

Seatkeek is the best app for buying and selling tickets to sporting events, concerts, and more for $20 off your first Seatkeek purchase on any gamer sporting event. All you have to do is use promo code watch. Download the Seatkeek app or go right to seekekekeek.com. I need sports to have to clear the room. Stand up and walk now. Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan.

I'm an editor at The Ringer.com. and joining me in the studio, how's that Kanye stock doing? It's Andy Greenwald! Do you think he listened to our podcast last week and was like, I want to test the limits of his love? I feel like I set out my issues pretty well. You were the one who was just like,

I don't care what he says as long as he makes a dope beat. Here's how I truly feel today. It's a little troubled. Okay. Look, I just on a profound level, Kanye West could be blogging positively about West world

from a top of Confederate monument. And if he makes a Nas record and does all the beats for it, okay. Okay. Okay. We're going to hold you to do that. Okay. I mean, my voice is getting really high, but, okay.

Andy, today is Monday. We're going to be talking about the season premiere of season two of Westworld. I would just like to say that there's a lot of ringer content about Westworld right now. There is a podcast hosted by David Shoeaker called Westworld the Recapables,

which you can subscribe to. own feed separate from our other recapables podcasts. That way you won't get your billions. Can't get your billions and you're at Atlanta mixed up with your Westworld. So Shoemaker, me and Danny Hafeitz did the first one. Shoemaker will be hosting that one going forward. I think Danny's going to be like popping up to do the theories on that one. But there will be a variety of guests on that.

Alison Herman wrote a great piece recapping the first episodes. If you want to read about where we're at with this show, Andy and I will talk about that. Also, on this episode, we had the. pleasure of being joined by Henry Winkler and Bill Hader, just absolute dynamite munches, and they are obviously the stars of Barry. Barry probably had its best episode last night, so we'll be talking to them about episodes, specifically episodes four and five, which Andy and I both felt were the strongest of the season, and we're just phenomenal pieces of television.

We strongly recommend you catch up on the show not only to listen to our interview, but because the show really has hit its stride. Yeah. On Thursday, Andy and I will be talking about the season premiere of Handmaid's Tale, season two. So that's coming back on Wednesday night. So we'll talk a little bit about that. And we also will have an interview with the Scottish band churches. Yeah. Old friends of the pod. Old friends. The theme music authors of the Andy Greenwald show. Was it the Andy Groomwald show or the Andrew Mood podcast? Your inability to remember this is so savage. It's so just low-key sad. You're like, that little podcast you do. I never had a Chris Ryan show. I guess a lot of shows are the Chris Ryan's

Shows on the Ringer Podcast Network are in a way, the Chris Ryan show. I got to get a Chris Ryan show going. What part of your brain could you slice thin like the garlic and Goodfellas to preserve for your show? Maybe I'll do a podcast about Goodfellas, but it's just the Chris Ryan show. So that's Thursday. We have a new book for Book Club. We did the last good kiss with Elwood Reed, fantastic guests. Such a pleasure to talk to him.

Shout to Elwood, big fan of our Thomas English Muffins ad reads. Who isn't? Who isn't a fan of Thomas's English Muffins? And Thomas's. I'm not trying to go pay for play here, but my cupboard is empty. We're just saying, show us the muffs. Our love is genuine. But we're feeling a little muff poor right now. The new book for Book Club is Every Man of Menace, written by Patrick Hoffman. It is a recent novel. 2016, I think it is. And it is, I think, one of the best crime books I've read in the last 10 years. And I haven't read this yet. I'm excited. You brought this to the group.

really, really, really mind-blowing. In a way that I don't mean, it's not mind-blowing in the, like, Kanye West watches YouTube once, mind-blowing way. It's mind-blowing in the union of this sort of hard-boiled to the point where it's, like, Dennis Johnson or Raymond Carver, like, spare style with a vision of the global drug trade

that I don't think I've ever seen in a novel before. Can't wait. It's basically about a series of characters. in and around San Francisco and Thailand and Miami. Some of my favorite vacation spots. And the global ecstasy trade. Something I'm passionate about. Yes.

So every man of menace by Patrick Hoffman will probably get to that at some point. Mid-May? Late May, probably. Late-ish-May? You let me know what your schedule's like. I mean, you've read it. Send me an invite. This is incredible.

The power that you're flexing. You have definitely done that before. I know, but now suddenly the tables are turned. All the other books I've read. I'm like, can we do it next week? You're just like secret Every Man of Medus July 4th. Sorry, you're busy recording the nine-part Chris Ryan

podcast. It's like S-Town, but just about garlic. Let's talk about Westworld. I'm stalling. Why don't you go first? No, no, no. Why? No, no, no. Why not?

I've got a couple Candace Owens vids to get through. So I'm just going to fire those up while you... Why don't you say your piece here? Westworld's not about characters. Okay. Westworld is, as Allison very eloquently put it in her piece, Westworld is a choose-your-own-adventure story. And Westworld is best appreciated when you are not watching it

in the way that you would watch killing Eve or that you would watch The Night of or that you would watch Handmaid's Tale. You mean, with your brain and pleasure receptors turned down? So you're going to let me talk or you're just going to keep kind of like... Zach, edit that out. You're going to keep hedging on this paper. Sorry, Candace is just really making a strong point here about globalism. So I think that there are a couple of things that you could be,

let's say if you were even, if you were, count yourself as a fan of the show, you could be like, you know, 60-9 minute runtime, first time out. Do we really need some of the elongated monologues that were essentially restating past purposes, past character intent? But for me, the thing that is sort of freed up my enjoyment of this show is the very pure parceling out of, of, of where it's going and the narrative trajectory of the show. I don't really get caught up anymore on whether or not like Dolores is Wyatt or

Dolores is some avenging angel or what this sort of, where she's going with this. I think that it's basically a puzzle. And we've lamented the puzzled puzzleification of television a couple of times on this show over the last couple of years. but for some reason, because I don't feel like the puzzle in this show is taking away from a larger story

or a larger story or a sort of personal connection that I have to any of these characters, I actually enjoy it, just the same way I enjoyed doing a crossword puzzle from time to time. So, you know, I shared a lot of my thoughts about what I thought was going on this season.

I think that stuff about it being, you know, now that we kind of are pretty sure that it is set somewhere off of China that, you know, there are multiple parks that the Dallas Corporation is mining its guests' personal information for some use, which is obviously a pretty prescient storyline. I'm compelled by it.

You know, I think that it has, it's a little, it's a baggy show, and I, you know, I accept that. And I was kind of interested in talking about this because I can't tell, when we spoke a few weeks ago about Avengers, we were talking about whether or not this is compulsion. We feel compelled to talk about this because of it's popular. It's compulsory coverage.

Yeah, it's compulsory coverage. I am interested in the setting, and I am interested in enough things about this show that I do not feel like it's compulsory. But I see the floor to you. I want to be measured, and I want to be respectful of those who enjoy the show. It's week one.

there are nine more episodes, I believe, this season. I have to say that something about Westworld turns me into Joe Pesci in my cousin Vinnie. I thought you were going to say good films, and I was like, that's my podcast. That's on your podcast. People say positive things about the show, and I say you were serious about that?

What's a positive thing people say about the show? You just said some positive things about the show. people honestly genuinely seem interested in what's going to happen next

or where we're going or what any of it means. I find that totally baffling. I think the show is completely inert as an entertainment and my three notes

before I'm off the project aside from completely inert as an entertainment, yeah. Well, no, I wanted to be more specific I'm seriously here. I don't think it's productive for me to, this is, they're making the show they want to make.

Yeah, but I want to be clear about something. Yeah. This isn't like I'm taking up an opposite position from you. No, you're finding pleasure in things. We're both observing the same objective truths about the show. Yes, but I'm not trying to, like, fetishize you not liking this show. Like, if you don't, I think that you're not liking it while there might be, like, diminishing returns on stating the same thing over and over again. Yes.

I do think that your criticisms are compelling. Here are my three notes from last night. Number one, ask yourself, should my show be 75 minutes? Catherine Van Aeronaunt has a piece about this on the vulture today. Yes, about episodic man spreading, which I completely agree with. Should your show be 75 minutes? And then ask yourself, are five of those minutes Ed Harris grimacing and tending to arm wounds? You don't need those minutes.

this was absurd, absurd excess. This did not need to be this long. It felt extremely long. There were, it was just incredibly, I mean, you said baggy, it was just outrageously indulgent for something that I yet to believe, I've yet to see evidence that it deserves that kind of indulgence. Particularly when so many of the scenes are just repetitive of last year, there's this sort of circular philosophizing that really don't add up to much.

other than Dolores saying that now she's going to be the star of her own narrative loop, which we got that. Right. Pretty clear. Two, again, I get that this is essentially a show about the biggest possible ideas, or it wants to be about the biggest possible ideas. It's about moving chess pieces or puzzle pieces, depending on the analogy you want to use. This is never going to be a show that's about quips or humor or anything like that. but I was gobsmacked at some of the dialogue within this that our guy, your man, Lisa Ismore, who is the writer,

a writer, his observation of the circumstance that he finds himself in surrounded by dead bodies and living Buffalo is that it's like the inmates are running the asylum. That guy is off the project, you know what I mean? Like, you need to do better than that, writer. Wouldn't that explain why he's working for a theme park? You know, that's a great counter. And I'm not going to push back on that.

Maybe you're revealing something there. But there's also a line about how looking for this will be like looking for a needle in a haystack. He says that or? No, someone else says that later. Well, he wrote their dialogue, so it kind of stands to reason why. I can't. See, that's the thing about the show. There's an answer for everything.

I don't know if it's a satisfying one. The third point I wanted to make was, I think the logline or at least an easier way to understand potentially or to have a conversation about, what Westworld is for a non-genre fan. You could, if you squinted, try to make an argument that this is a show about human nature or about the nature of life. Are these robots alive?

What makes them alive? I mean, the broadest possible strokes. And again, even before you saw the first season, you could try to express that that might be what they would be attempting to do. And this episode, more than anything else, made it clear to me that the show is fanatically, fetishistically not interested in life.

It's obsessed with death. It was so wildly and needlessly violent with people just being. shot in the head, robot and human alike, endlessly, relentlessly, to the point of just a beyond a numbing sensation. And I get, for narrative purposes, we need people to move forward and not all be shaking like Bernard when he's lacking that milk of magnesium needs to inject in his brain stem. But like Charlotte Hale, for example, Tessa Thompson's character, she's pretty Miss Cool Girl about the fact that there is a mass slaughter happening in front of them, you know,

and all the red shirts, except in this case their black tuxedo is getting gunned down. Everybody seems pretty mellow with this because this is a world I guess they're used to where people dying constantly in violent, horrific ways in front of them, or at Lee Seismore waking up and being relatively okay with the fact that most of the people he worked with are slaughtered. There's a desensitizing to this that I just find really bizarre. So can I throw one idea out there? Well, my last note on it is, remember also that this is a show in which half of the cast, maybe that's conservative, three quarters of the cast, can be resurrected at any time with no cost. So the lingering image of, oh, James Marsden wound up

drowned, why should I care about that? Other than the fact that it's given us an answer, and now it's going to slowly, slowly reveal the question, I am just gobsmacked, again, that this idea that a bunch of robots are dead in an ocean and Bernard did it, maybe explain to me why that's interesting. Okay, so I won't pretend like this is true, but I'm going to throw it out at you. That's the best kind of argument. Possibly one of the reasons why people have the attitudes towards mass slaughter that they do on the show is that we don't know where this show is taking place or when this show is taking place in the context of what could be happening outside of the world of this park that may have desensitized people to that level of violence. Okay.

Or what may have happened with the sort of AI revolution that led to this park being something that could function, that people have these attitudes towards robots. Yeah, I mean, like, Blade Runner is entirely based on this idea that a robot race was created as slave labor to colonize out, like, outlying planets. So there's that. And I think that that is part of what kind of interests me about this show is this idea that the story is in the clay and that each episode is just sort of the story. slowly peeling away the clay. Now, you may not like the story, and you may hate the clay. But it is kind of fascinating to watch them piece this together and also be curious about whether or not they actually know what's in there in the first place

or whether they're kind of making it up as they go along. Because obviously, this was a show that had a troubled first season or pre-production period of delays, expensive. It was very expensive. Then it became something of a sensation. Now it is more or less poised to be the flag. ship HBO show for the next three years in the wake of Game of Thrones. So they obviously have a lot writing on this. And I think it's entirely possible that in two or three seasons, you could have a

completely different cast of Westworld. Yeah. But still be exploring what's going on inside of the world of this show. So there's all that for the mass slaughter stuff. The writing is the writing. I can't really explain that off. I think it's, I don't think it's good writing. I wish that they... It's technical. things like what they have obviously responded to with the Mave character, which is that like let Tandy Newton cook. Yeah, I like that. And they don't do that for, like Jeffrey Wright is

one of the best working actors. And he's kind of stuck having robot PTSD and following Tessa Thompson around. Now, I thought that they obviously gave Tessa Thompson a higher usage rate. That was good. I think that there are some interesting things in this show.

But I think ultimately what you have to do is like rejigger your expectations for what television is supposed to do. And that may not be what you want from television. I would also say that one of my bank critiques about it is that there is not enough. Like, when you watch 24, 24 had pretty bad dialogue, but then he would like electrocuted dude with a lamp.

And you'd be like, damn. Yeah, I want to be clear. And that would be enough. There would be an action sequence. There would be some sort of tension. There is actually like all of the tension of Westworld, all of the dramatic tension, is in how they parcel out morsels of narrative.

Fine. And I hear that. And in terms of the writing, I want to be clear about this because this is something I'm learning as well in my own journey to television writing. Journey to Night. There it is. It's all there. Not all writing needs to be show-offy or clever or self-referential. That's not the purpose of some writing, especially narrative writing or writing for the screen. There is writing, or in the world, you know, there's the writing. You could write a short story and you can write a legal document or you can write. instruction manual for something, and they each have different purposes. I think that the type of writing that is necessary for a show like Westworld that juggles multiple timelines and multiple storylines needs to be clean and get you there. And that has its own talent, that has its own talent. It requires its own talent. So I don't mean to be dismissive of that. What I really am saying

is that I wish it had the other in order to make it feel more alive. Now, what I would say is, you're right. I think that everyone's mileage of television may vary, what you're looking for, how you enjoy it. And in the mood you're in when you sit down to watch it. But what I would ask people who enjoy the show is think about, let's take three storylines from Westworld. Okay. And I want to ask why an audience member should be invested in them outside of, we don't know the answer. So let's do it with this one. Let's do it with this episode. So here's the three that I wanted to bring up. One, the three major storylines are, um, May of being reunited with her daughter.

Yes. Dolores becoming the star of her own show or whatever, or becoming who she's going to become. And Ed Harris, solving some maze or solving the game. Getting out of the game. Or whatever the current mission is. For me, there is not a single emotional thread

to any of those that interest me, separate and apart from, I wonder what will happen, how she will get her daughter back. I wonder when Dolores will become what you will become. I wonder what it even means for Ed Harris to get where he's going. But doesn't that sort of speak to how those, those are all very basic, fundamental Western quests.

Yes. I want to be reunited with my family. I need to get out of hell. Yes, they're all borrowed jokes. Become the person I want to become. And so let's add. But doesn't it kind of speak to the, those are just constructs anyway then? Yes.

And if you don't fill in detail, then we're just looking at an empty shell. We're just looking at that blank robot walking around menacing Jeffrey Wright. You could say the same thing. I mean, that's the other thing that comes down to the Westworld. Was it dope or not?

And, I mean, let's look at Lost. The question was, will they get off this island? The reason Lost was good was because we cared about the people on the island, how they interacted with each other, and the journeys that they took emotionally as well as physically to get off the island.

That's how it works. When we were talking about crime novels in the book club, yeah, I mean, there's always a missing girl, or there's a dead girl, or there's someone whose identity. There's six points. Yeah, right. It's how you fill in that bucket.

And, again, it's very possible that if we were to sit down with Jonah Nolan and Lisa Joy, which I very much doubt they would do, is they might say, well, we're playing with the idea of the bucket. It's not about what's in it. Sure. And again, intellectually, okay, interest, fine. You can make a compelling point for that, but I don't think it's pleasurable to sit through 75 minutes of consider the bucket. Is this really a bucket at all? Okay. So this actually ties in pretty well with Barry. Because what Barry does so well, we could leave West World where we live. What I'm blown away by Barry is how it takes something that is in the elevator pitch, you're like,

I feel like people have tried to make hitmen interesting for a long time. What's going to be different about this one? And they check every box. Everything you want from a show, whether it's humor, whether it's like actual human moments, whether it's a detailed world where it feels very lived in and that the writers know what they're talking about when they're writing,

whether it's the world of struggling actors in the valley or Hit Men for Hire who have connections so the Chatchanam Mafia and everything else and the Bolivian drug cartels, it's like so fully realized that in 22 minutes or 25 minutes or whatever, Barry can have a more developed world than Westworld. Now, I don't think that they necessarily

are obviously trying to do anything close to the same things, but we just got out of the last night's episode of Barry, which I thought was probably the best one, precisely because you just never know where this show is really going anymore. You know, and it feels like it can be a kind of canned comedy at some points, but then it feels like it can be a truly thrilling noir show, you know? And Hero Mirai did an incredible job directing last night's episode. Hater talked a lot about that with us.

What did you think of last night's episode and how do you want to set up for? Well, I think, and I expressed some of this to Bill and Henry when we spoke to them as well, One of the interesting things about television is the show teaching you how to watch it while it's figuring out how to tell, figuring out what it is. And the first two weeks of Barry, the first three weeks even, I found the show finding its footing. I really like the pilot. I like the second episode less. I was a little bit more in the third. And then in the fourth and fifth episode, it clicked. And it felt like it clicked behind the camera as well. They seemed to get their tone better and understand what the show is. So for me, the last two weeks were the ones where everything felt character-based and not premise-based. And the mixture of comedy and pathos felt more true. It probably may, that probably has a lot to do with the fact that Sarah Goldberg's character began to emerge as more of a steadying force on the show and her emotional experience, which is not mocked or commented on.

You know, the scene with her and the agent, I think in the previous week's episode, is devastating and devastating in a way that doesn't call attention to itself, but it colors everything that comes afterwards. And if you want to talk about consequences on shows, it changes the way her character behaves. Yes. So, like, each moment for these people actually goes towards the next moment.

It's not just, oh, this happened in a vacuum because we thought it was a good bit. It's cumulative in a way that's really rewarding. Yeah. And I was really dazzled as you were. By the way, last night's episode juggled things so expertly that it could have an outrageous, and an outrageously banal drug stash house raid.

that was as gripping as other entertainments we enjoy that have drug stash house raids, but was true to the character's experience in it and the world of the show Barry and also still weirdly funny and then devastating in a way and it made you tense in a way the comedy made me tense in the previous weeks.

I thought it was great. I'm on board on the show, and it was so terrific to have these two guys in here. It was not a rowdy conversation. Yeah. It was very thoughtful in a fun way. We should let people know that at the very beginning, we had to run it back and start over again. And Henry Winkler,

who is just a lovely human being, was upset, not because he was interrupted in mid-thought, but because he realized he had neglected to say thank you when I had said, welcome. So he does not make that mistake twice. And it was just a, yeah, it was just a pleasure to talk to these guys and have a substantive conversation about what they are trying to do and with the show and what I think they are succeeding to do. Yeah, we are going to take a quick break to hear from our sponsors. and then we'll be back with our interview with Bill Hader and Henry Winkler from Barry. Thanks for listening. With the Google Assistant, you can complete over a million actions on your phone,

in your car, and around the house. One of my favorite is to play podcasts when I'm in the car and can't be messing around my phone. I just say, hey, Google, play the latest binge mode podcast. Download the Google Assistant today. Andy. Hey, man. Today's episode of The Watch is brought to you by Thomas's English Buffet! Are you looking for a breakfast that's worth skipping the snooze button for, bro?

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You could. You could note inner peace. No. You could put peanut butter on an English muffin. You could mix it up. But I don't want to exclude anyone who's allergic to peanut butter. You could put sun butter. There you go.

You could put other kinds of butter and blow your mind and have an even better breakfast experience. If you haven't had them already, you have to toast and put whatever kind of butter you got on some Thomas's, nooks and crannies, English muffins. They're truly like no other. Muff life. Chris and I are so thrilled now to be joined on the show by our guest. By our guest, the co-stars of HBO's Barry just renewed for a second season, Bill Hader and Henry Winkler. Hi. So gracious.

Hi. Just to both of you. We have a lot of questions to ask you prepared. We have some banter, but we also, well, I actually just want to. to comment on what happened when we were walking in here, which is I found you guys in the parking lot, waiting very patiently. And as we were walking, I was speaking to Bill and just someone that none of us knew approached you, Henry, and shook your hand and said, I love the show. And I think the most important follow-up was from Bill, which was which show. It is true. We have

between us a tremendous biography. Yes. So do you, I imagine that happens a lot. It does. I mean, it depends on the age. Right. There are people who say, hello, I loved Happy Days. Right. Scream. Waterboy. Arrested Development.

Parks and Rec. And now, no matter where I go, and so many different ages, people are talking to me about Barry. Can you spot a Barry fan coming? No. No. No, they don't know. You can spot a Happy Days fan. Yeah.

You can spot, except when they're very, very young and they had watched with their grandmother and their mother. Right. Sure. Well, because that's a thing for, I don't think, I think the show was ending its run when I came into the world, but it was on every day after school. When you were born? Yeah.

So toward the end of the run. But coming home from school in high elementary school and middle school, I bet Bill you had a similar experience. Yeah. The show was on every day and was just as much of a morning. Yeah. That's what I thought television was Henry. Like my first image that I remember on a television set was Henry.

Is that, does that explain the founding of burial? They said, do you want to make a TV show? And he said, well, get me television. I need television. I need television on the thing. It's like I need either Big Bird or Henner. I met Elmo. So Big Bird was in second position.

I met the guy who did Elmo, you know. The guy that got in trouble. The disgraced guy? But you know what? I am so sorry. I don't find him. He was just like a genius. Yeah.

Yeah. I saw that document. I saw that documentary, but yeah. I was reading some interviews you did, Henry, about the show. And one of the things I love about... About which show? About Barry. See, there we are again.

And one of the things I love about the show is that, you know, superficially it's about these worlds, these acting worlds and this hitman world. But there's a lot of very relatable stuff in all the writing and in all the storylines. And what other... You just hit... I don't mean to interrupt you. You just hit something that's really important because if it's not on a page, it's not on the stage. Yeah. And we have the ensemble has the good fortune of having Bill Hader and Alec Berg in the same room at the same time.

And that is no joke. That's not hyperbole because all you have to do is watch the show and you see I'm right. Yeah. The writing is precise and extraordinary. And I'm very proud to say I make Bill Hater. crazy. That's very sweet, Henry. And would you like to follow up on that bill?

What? Crazy he makes you? No, he doesn't make me crazy. How do I make you crazy? I'll tell you how. This is what he says to me every day. Could you just do it once the way it's written? Oh, that's true.

Okay. So that you could hear what? Yeah, no, that's true. But I, you know what? As an actor, too, I am the same way where you go, I want to make it my own, but it has like a rhythm. But it has a rhythm. rhythm to it that you're like, oh, no, it's great. But I, you know, I think that, you know,

you don't make me crazy. Other people on the show make me crazy. Let's make names. Oh, let's, I'm naming names. No, no, no, no, no one makes sense. But, no, Henry, it's very fun because they'll be doing a scene with him and you're kind of, um, like the soup scene in, in, uh, episode three where we just get into a rhythm and it's just effortless. And that's, that's a hard thing to come by. And that's when you have that with someone. You just, you feel it. You don't. Yeah. And it's, you feel it. You don't. Yeah. And it It was like, oh, gosh, we got this great rhythm. So a lot of the scene was written, and then we made up stuff.

Yeah. I remember when... I interrupted you. No, no. I mean, I actually wanted to ask you something based on what you said. I remember reading some interviews with Seth Rogen when Preacher came out, and he talked about that same idea where he was almost now that he had done something that was a little bit more dramatic, he said he could like almost not even imagine going back to a fully

improvised style because he's just... like these guys like, you know, the dramatic actors are like, okay, what am I supposed to say, right? And I'll say what you're writing for me and I'll do all the parts. And he's like, going back to fully improv would be impossible. Yeah, well, it's different. I actually kind of felt that after,

because on Saturday Night Live, we couldn't really improvise too much. And when we did the show of Fred documentary now, that show, none of that's improvised. I mean, that's all written, you know. And I think we kind of, you know, it's just, it's hard. to land a thing when you got 30 minutes and you want to tell a complete story or whatever. You know, if you have two plus hours or whatever to make a, you know, a movie you can

improvise a lot, you know, and kind of cobble it into a thing that like makes sense and feels loose and fun and stuff. But most of those movies are improv movies. Even the Cassavetti stuff, they're long, you know? And we have 30 minutes. So, and we want to tell a complex. complex story that has a lot of twist and turns in it. So it's hard to find, it's like little moments, you know, can be improvised. But for the most part, but that puts a lot of pressure on us as writers. It's like you've got to hand them something that's worth, because that's, I don't know if you could, Henry, if you could test this one, the writing's not good. And they're saying, you mean on another show.

On another show and you go, or a movie or whatever, and the writing's not good. and they act like it's, you know, Shakespeare. But just for the actor, then you, when the writing is not good, your job then is to find the life in it. Yeah. When you've got, on the other hand, when you've got, and I've said this before, when I read the pilot of Barry, it was like reading cashmere as opposed to a cotton blend.

Right. That's wonderful. When you read something like that, it washes over you and you then can make it come alive. The other stuff, it literally, you've got to take nails and your hammer and a saw and cobble it to steal your work. Yeah, you do. Yeah. I think even aside from the performances, you touched on it, Bill, there is a large degree of difficulty, I think in this show. There's a lot of complexity, obviously, in the emotional range of the stories you want to tell,

but also just in the tone of the show. And I have to say this interview is going to air on Monday after the fifth episode is aired, so we can talk about it through that episode. It's the last two weeks that it's really all come together for me in the way that TV does when you understand the ride you're on a little bit better. What you guys were going for in the beginning is audacious in terms of the comedy being over here, the violence over here, and dealing with people who exist in a world where both are possible. At almost any moment.

And then they crisscross. Exactly. They don't know it? Yeah. I mean, holy moly. And there were moments when I'm cringing at the comedy in episode two, and then in episode five, I am unable to watch the screen when Barry's considering whether to off his incredibly, as we mentioned before, just beautifully marvellous.

Yeah. Sculpted. Dale. Yeah, he's a great actor. But anyway, the question in this was, I was speaking to the viewer's experience, finding my way in the show and finding comfort in it. what was that like on your end? When did you feel in the writing of the scripts

or in the cohesion of the production that you found the sweet spot between these extremes? I don't know. I mean, I don't know. It's funny. It's like you just kind of tell the, you know, we would just tell the story in the way that made sense to us emotionally, you know? And it was, you know, you just go, well, the guy doesn't want to be in this violent world anymore,

so we should probably make the violence very real and play it for what it is, which is brutal and fast. And I never like stuff where, I never like stuff where the, you know, the guys, it's kind of funny, you know. And as I get older, you know, taking violence in a way that's glib in any way. I mean, there's a, there's a very easy. And then also as a testament to HBO, there's a big, you know, there's a lot of notes that we could have gotten of like, hey this guy you strangle on the backyard in episode three,

can he like take some of the kid toys back there and strangle him? You know, just something funny or do like a little, you know, weekend at Bernie's type of deal or whatever. Let's take the kid toys out altogether. Yeah. And like have a bad guy and drugs and everything. And we were very conscious of like, no, there needs to be kid toys. There's a guy without a little kid without a father anymore.

And that was the idea behind that. But to your question, I don't know. It was just playing the emotion real. And then we never fully knew, but we just kind of committed to it. And then you watched it. When we saw it cut together, I just remember watching that scene in episode five, that whole stash house sequence cut together and going like, well, I like it. You know, I don't know what everybody else is going to think, but that's my kind of thing, you know, where you treat it real, you know.

You know, that is also a very important point to make. when you make an entertainment, you make what you know you like. Because if it appeals to your center, it will appeal to somebody else because we're all the same. If you try to make something that you think other people will like, you're dead in the water.

Actors often talk about the best feeling they can have is when they were working with somebody who knows exactly what they want. And then they can present this world and they can articulate it. away. What did Bill do to communicate his vision? Well, here's the greatest thing. As director, you mean? Yeah, as a director. As a director, as a producer and as a writer, we had the luxury so that all of us, the entire ensemble in the show, sat around the table and read all eight scripts

together. Before we read them for HBO. Oh, wow. So we would read like this, we would do these pre-reads that are just for us to be like, let's see what's working and you could come up to us and this this line isn't working for me or one of our actors came up and went I don't understand why I'm doing this I don't want to be a jerk but why would I do this and we went you're right and we all ran into the writer's room and changed it all based on one comment while the actor was walking to the elevator you know but that it just it just gets a familiarity and just like anything you just the most terrifying thing when you're shooting something is when you have to do something really important or big. And you don't know anybody.

You don't have a relationship with the actor. And you're supposed to have known each other for years or whatever it is. It's like father's son or whatever it is. And so to me, really, it's getting people in a room so you're comfortable failing around each other. You know, if you get comfortable failing around each other, you start to relax and then you start doing really good work. But again, I will say all starts with the people at the top. They create an environment for that to happen. There are other people who are so insecure that will never happen, you know, and then it is up to you to negotiate that minefield.

One of the things that I've loved about the show, as we've sort of crossed the halfway mark of the season, is our understanding of the character of Gene. To watch his introduction in the first episode, it'd be very easy to take this character as this is a comic character. And with all the gunplay going on elsewhere, as the show has revealed itself to be about, I think one of you even made a passing reference to this,

about a bunch of people who are not comfortable with who they are and trying to reject who they are and glom onto something else, maybe even without realizing what that other thing is. Gene is in many ways the most honest character on the whole show. He seems, at least through five, there may be a twist coming, but I'm not expecting, but he seems to know who he is.

And there's a level of comfort to it that is, it's attractive enough to woo a police detective. Then he has the, the gall to do that is amazing. But it seems that everybody in the show, Bill is an assassin and he's great at it. But he wants to be an actor and he's horrible at it. Right. I'm a teacher and I found how to be the men.

master of my own fortune. And then I audition. And I'm auditioning for the last guy in the line. Yeah. That's such a great scene. Do you know? Yeah. It's so little.

And yet it says so much. Yeah. Yeah. We always said that I remember, you know, going, oh, when he walks in to, you know, you see him audition in episode four. And then when he goes in to. the, you know, into his class, everyone stands up for him and applauds. And that's when I always feel like I really get Gene in that moment.

Yeah. You know, you really get like, oh, I get why he's an acting teacher. What was that moment for you, Henry, where you got Gene? Because Bill mentioned episode four. There is that incredible audition sequence. And there's also the seduction sequence at Stella Luna. We also, I just say, we shot that, the audition scene. this is another testament to Henry that was shot in the set where we were shooting all the police

police stations. So we were shooting the end of episode four with Moss saying, look at the tape, rewind it, everything like that. And then it was a second camera lined up on Henry next door. And it was, and I remember looking at two monitors of these two scenes going and then being like, all right, everybody be quiet. And you know, everyone on the other set. And then Henry just did that.

and we just pushed in, pulled back, pushed in, pulled back. And it was the last tape, the last take you did. We all just went, oh, oh, we all, like, went crazy. You're making me crazy in a good way. No, no, no, like, broke our hearts. You know, I did it, and I walked away. I just, I didn't, you know, I thought, I'm doing this. And you heard at Video Village where the director, the producers,

and everybody stays, and you just heard, oh, Yeah. Maggie Carey directed that. It was me, Alec, everybody just went, oh, and we went, that's it. Oh, Henry. Oh, geez. And so when I see the scene with Moss when she's saying, you know, I'm Paulus and rewind it and all that stuff, all I remember was we were like celebrating that moment. Alec and I quietly going like, oh, that's fucking killer, man. Like that we were so happy with that. You know, if that's sort of a signature moment for Henry's character in a strange way, I think that the Statch House raid really did a lot to explain the character of Barry for me in some ways because between what happens with Ryan early in the season, but especially in what would have been last night's episode, I don't know, there's something about seeing Barry be physical out in the world and doing the thing that you, you know, for the most part is just talking about a lot,

was just incredibly revealing about him because, like, it gives him. gives you an idea of like what he must have experienced in Afghanistan and what he must have experienced over the course of what he's been doing and also his physicality bill's physicality yes because on the stage he is a deer in headlights and in the stash house he moves like he just totally knows how to do this i just totally know how to take out all these guys yeah yeah he's just very common and and this kind of yeah this guy weighed alan was her stunt coordinator and this And Duffy, his right-hand man guy. I wish I had a right-hand man named Duffy.

No, Duffy is, was like a trainer. He trained the, like, Fight Club, Brad Pitt and Gardens of Galaxy, Chris Pratt. Like, he's like a big trainer guy. But he was, they were the two guys that showed us how to move like that. And I remember watching them, they go, here's what you guys have to do. And we went to reuse rehearsals where they showed us how to like sweep a room and all this stuff. and I remember calling Alec going, this is great because they look like robots.

They don't look human. I go, it's really good. It's just stealthy, quiet. And I just remember texting like, no music, no nothing, just nothing. Like it should just be them moving, and that's it. You kind of get the kind of disconnect of how there's zero motion in that.

Yeah. It's also just sort of. And these are the same show. That's what I was going to have. I'm telling you it blows my mind. It's a bravura moment for the show. because, and you had the great hero Mara directing it as well,

but there's this, the same sort of deep-seated mundanity that you see when they're sitting around residuals or wherever other sort of real place that exists is this warehouse. They're just watching something. Yeah, those guys, that's what they said was, you know what we did was we wrote,

we got enticed by it, and I blame myself, as we wrote a version of that, or I wrote a version, I go, guys, I'm one of the writers from, I go, I wrote the stash house, and it's great. And we read it, and it was,

an action sequence. And I just read it again. It went cool. And everybody was like, all right. And then while we were reading through it, I went, it's an action sequence. What made an action sequence? The guy, well, the guy with the grocery bag drops his bag,

and then there's a shootout, and then people are coming out and nowhere were guns, and it's this big thing. And I just went, oh, I screwed up. And I go, you know what, instead of him going into a room and it's a bunch of guys with guns, it should be a bunch of guys watching TV, and they just shoot them. and like they're not doing anything. They don't do anything. They just shoot them.

And then when we shot that, I remember Hero, we were talking to the stunt guys, and stunt guys are just trained to do that when they get shot. And Hero are all going, no, no, you just kind of slump over, just trying to get the reality of it.

But yeah, taking that action thing that you're kind of programmed with as a movie fan, just trying to not do that. Because like that's supposed to be your bad boys moment where you're like, yeah, like low-angle show. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. You don't want to do that because that's lame, you know. And a little bit you want to do it. No, no, not a little bit. No, we were really wanting, I mean, I was terrible. I think it's on the thing. I couldn't load it. I had to be able to load the gun without looking at it. I decided to do that.

There is a moment. And I would go. So I'm doing this and then, and then you'd hear Wade, and the guys go, Bill, come on, man, you got it. And so the one. And so the one, time I get if you see I, I slam against the wall right before he says, Leroy Jenkins, I slam against the wall and I did it great. And if you look at my eyes, you could see I'm like, yes. I just did it. Don't blow this. Don't say your lines right because I just did it finally right on camera.

Finally, Duffy will respect me. Duffy will respect me. You know, can I just say my thing that also kills me. We talked about Hero. Hero is a director. A phenomenal director. A phenomenal director. he created the look of Atlanta.

He was in my son's cinema class at USC. Oh, no way. So I'm congratulating his parents because his son did a great student movie. Now he's directing us. Bill's daughter is in my grandson's kindergarten class. There are so many lapping just like it's Bershert. There's a Yiddish word for share it, which it's meant to be. I always have to.

It just touches me. It does. Sweet. It segues really nice to a question. I wanted to ask you, Henry, which is some of the best scenes on the show are in the acting class. And there's just this, you get it so exactly right because there's this palpable hunger in the room. Everyone is so hungry for success or opportunity in acting. Let me stop you for a minute.

You've got the Anglo-African. actress, Kirby, is now in Killing Eve. She's great. A writer, the young man, just took his webisode show to Cannes. Darcy, who, thank you. Darcy, who plays, he takes care of me. Who plays my assistant, and the young lady who is just acquiesces to everybody else's thought is.

killing it on the good chair. I sure is. They, every one of them is a home run hitter. Yeah. I just want to say. Darrell, you know, was in three billboards. Antonio and Andy Carey who lives in Chicago. I mean, they just are effortless, you know.

And Antonio, episode four, when he goes, I sent you my link. He improvised that. He improvised that and we just went nuts. I was curious, though, Henry, about your experience. You've obviously been a working actor for quite some time. 43 years. Did it take you back? Is that emotion in a young actor, whether they have ability or not,

and although maybe that's a distinction you'd like to make, does it take you back? Is it familiar? It really depends. I went to Emerson College. I studied drama. I had four teachers, four professors of drama. I went to Yale Drama School.

I had 13. So you put them all together. Now there are actors in your class. Some of them are completely confident. I was an unsolidified bowl of jello before it ever got in a refrigerator. And my teacher, Norma Brewstein, said to me, come here. You're trying to undermine my class. I said, I don't even have a point of view of who I am.

What do you mean? I don't even know what that means. So, yes, you see it, you see it all, and you see it in the individual personality of those people. Also, sometimes it's, I'm just thinking about the acting class scenes and also what Henry brings to stuff is, you know, we'll write a line like in episode five, Henry, the McBest scene, we're very kind of unloads on everybody. And he kind of has this moment where he, you know, existential moment. We had written in there where he said, you know, thank you for your service. And if you don't, you know, if you kill someone war, that's fine.

But if you don't, you're a psycho. And Henry just made, he, that, those two lines were never that funny to us. And we actually, when we went in to shoot that day, we were like, should we just cut these? Because I just, I mean, it just feels like filler from another. Didn't we cut those or whatever? and when Henry did them just to prove what an actor can do he came in and he just

he went boy I tell you you you added these two handles where you said boy I tell you congrats like you didn't say it like the following like you just did that

and you knew what you meant before but thank you for your service and then you go but you don't even you're fucking psycho like the rhythm of it he added this rhythm that we would never have thought of

and I was like oh those are two of the biggest laughs as a show for us when we watch stuff. I have no idea. Yeah, that was all you. You guys must, I mean, because you've both worked in these ensembles before. And, I mean, when you were working in SNL, one of the things I really like is the social dynamic of all the actors,

because they're at once, like, thrown together. But they do create this surrogate family for one another. And in the valley, like, they're... Can I just say... We forgot to mention Sarah Goldberg. Yeah. Sarah Goldberg. Yeah, she's unreal.

She's a standalone. She's a standalone. But here's the thing, even the background actors, the background artists who fill in my class, they all got into it. It wasn't like them and us. It was really solidified. Yeah, yeah, it was. Gosh. Yeah, everybody got into it.

Like when we had our final episode with the background actors, it was everybody took photos together. You know, it was a big camaraderie. Yeah, we were a class. I didn't want to talk about Sir Goldberg because she's outstanding. obviously on the show. Stereo. Again, another moment when the show clicked for me is her storyline in four. Yeah, four.

And the emotional depth that she brings to that part is such a strong and almost unexpected spine to the show. Because I can imagine, again, I've done this strange architecture analogy, but you have the comedy over here and you have the extreme violence over here. but keeping both from running too far to one side is her and her emotion. I wonder if that had the same effect on your performances as well and kept the two of you. Yeah, it's a good thing too. I mean, and that's structurally, again, we don't think of it that when we're writing, but it's just something just kind of intuitively feels right. But I got to say is like it's so much of it is just the seed of the idea.

It's this weird thing, you know, it's like sometimes you look back and you go, why didn't the thing work? Why didn't it work? Oh, the acorn was faulty. But the acorn of this of like, oh, hitman, acting, these two worlds trying to get together, then these kind of stories would go, well, then she would go in an audition. Oh, well, and that would happen. And you just take the logical steps.

And what happens to her in that is a story that one of the writers told us about, that there was an agent that was his kind of thing. And so then we went, oh, well, that's great. And then went, okay. So she says, I just want to be friends. And then I remember, because this never happened to me, I was in the writer's room, I go, so what? This is never happening before.

What would happen? And all the, not only are female writers, but the other female people work on the show, writers, PA's assistants, they all went, she would apologize. And we went, great. Okay, so she apologizes for his gaff. And they were like, yes, I go,

okay, so she apologized, then what would happen? And it's like, well, then she would go to the audition, and we all got quiet and went, oh, she'd go to the audition, and she doesn't have an name. agent. It was like, oh, okay, great. That's what happens. Then what happens? And then you go, well, she would go crying her car, you know. The acorn was true. The acorn was true, but that's what I mean. It's like you have one thing like this and it's like you look at a lot of great shows and things

that work. You kind of go, oh gosh, the initial idea of bringing two things together kind of bear all this fruit that you never expected. That's also the best part about the show is that something that's like on its surface, if you read the elevator pitch of it, is very high concept. is actually grounded by, like, detail, both in, like, the working actors' experiences, but even just the stuff with, like, the Chechninez. Oh, yeah. That's, like, like, I've read some...

Well, they're trying to have, like, a family life. Yeah. I like it when he goes, we have to stop torching him because my daughter's having a sleep boat. Or they're seeing with the Little Gym or whatever it's called. I love the Little Gym. Oh, yeah, that's where I take... That's where my daughters have their birthday parties.

Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Jagg Jim. We go there all the time for their birthday parties. So I've been those dads. sitting on the thing. And I was like, initially it was a movie theater. Yeah. And I said, oh, we should do it in Jagged Jim.

And Hero Mirai really liked that. He's like, oh, that's a great space to shoot in. And, you know, I like when Stephen Root does the thing where he goes, very good. You know, and Glenn goes, very good, Jenny. And he goes, very, just looks at that random kick. Good job, Jenny. That was another one. We were at the monitors.

We were dying. And Stephen, too. I mean, what can you say about Stephen Root? I mean, he's a genius. He shows up at the party. at Darcy's house. Yeah. And like Bill is staring

and you don't know what he's staring at and all of a sudden you cut to Stephen Rood his scarred face is like so out of place. It's like scary. Well, there's the,

he in many ways, in the way he is as a performer embodies the fluidity of tone that you listen to the show. Yeah. Yeah. The same voice, the same character

that was funny a minute ago suddenly seems scary. I love the scene in five when he comes out of the shower and says, you got a, do it and it starts out funny. Yeah.

But then Barry's, what the thing. And I got, Stephen did such a great thing because we wrote that initially as, you know, you're fucking doing this. I don't give it, you know, and it was a lot of, you know, I sat down and he's over me. And then we were looking at it, Stephen said, what if I just, I entice you? You know what I mean? You got to see that side of him, you know? And he goes, so let me sit down and you keep.

stand it and we just try it that way and it's just one of those great things where it clicks you know and you go oh right yeah this is much better where it's like hey man look let me just it just felt more real where you always wanted like in the outline it's like he makes him do something so it must be forceful and if you have a good actor there they can now that's another point these guys are open enough secure enough and generous enough to be open to the best idea wins. Do you know? Well, yeah, it's always about what's best for the show and any, and believe me, believe me, I will pitch stuff constantly or I'll play a,

I remember one time I wanted to play a scene a certain way and Alec Berg came out and he goes, that almost seemed like a human. And I go, should I tone it down? He's like, yeah, I tone it down. I was like, good, all right, thanks. It's kind of a Westworld note. Yeah, I was like, thank you. Yeah, yeah, those Android seem more human

than what I was doing. I wanted to, oh, you're good. I feel like this might be sort of a meta question in some ways. It might be a reach, but I'm curious about it. Both of you, on the show, obviously you're playing people who are hiding things from themselves, hiding things from other people, performing in one role or another, whether it's actually on stage or not. Both of you, to varying degrees, have played iconic roles in the past, obviously.

I'd like to say Stefan is our generation's. I agree. Stefanzi is what a lot of people are. It's right there. That's your paparazzi. That's what it lends it. What a funny, genuinely funny person he was. He was.

Is he gone? Wow. We know. Okay. I mean, I'm not asking to summon him. I just feel like I didn't know. I didn't get the death notice. But I imagine what that leads itself to is that people sometimes when they meet you, people

you don't know, people approach you, they expect a certain person to be there inside of your skin. And I didn't know if you would discuss that. Oh, yeah. I don't care what they call me as long as they watch Barry. Okay. I don't care what they know me from as long as they come. along with me on my journey. Truly.

Yeah. I thought I could beat the system. I thought I will just tell everyone I am not the Fonzs. Yeah. I'm Henry. You know, and when I met my wife, I took her out for the very first time and her four-year-old, I was a candle on his birthday cake a year before I met him. Wow.

And here he is, he opens the door and he goes, Fonzie! And I, the ass, the ass, and he goes, Fonzie. And I, the ass. I said, look down, and I said, my name is Henry. Would you like it if I called you Ralph? He had, now he's 45 years old. I say the same thing. He doesn't have, he didn't know what I was talking about.

But I was so crazed I thought I could beat the system. And then I looked down. I was on a mountaintop is the Fonz. I was going to go from mountaintop to mountain top because I was such, a big character. And then one day I looked down and there were grass stains on my jeans as I slid down into the valley. So I literally don't care as long as they come and watch Barry. And also I never get to, I don't know about you, but there's always a part of me that's just depending on where you're at, you know,

if you're just like in a bad place and someone walks up to you and it's like hey and you're like oh hi yeah no uh but um or if i'm with my kids or whatever but i always appreciate it yeah you always appreciate it it's just when people are like uh weird yeah you know then you then you go they own you yeah right or they you know but it's true when i was with my children and i would just say honestly do you know what? I'm in a conversation now with my kids. I am so thankful that you said hi, but I'm so sorry I've got to move on.

Yeah. And they get it. I always say, well, I appreciate it. Thanks. But if I take a picture with you, I'm going to be taking a picture with everybody in here. And then people will be coming up to me saying, I don't know who you are,

but everybody wants your picture. And I want to have this meal with my kids. You're already in home, in bed, watching the news. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And you go, I once hit, I don't know you've had way worse stories, but I once hit in the Chicago airport in a stall. And the woman had to come get me to come out, right when Stefan was at its thing.

I had people open the stall. I'm so sorry. You had it way worse. You had it way worse. No, no, no. I mean, there was only, yeah, I mean, you've told me stories that are way worse. I'm curious about the four-year-old with the Stefan candle. Yeah, right.

his or her cake. No, the kids love stuff on. Who would you? Yeah, they have, they dress up, they dress up,

on Halloween. I get all the Halloween things. A little kid's dressed up like stuff on. Not like the four-year-olds. Yeah. Yeah, little kids dressed up like stuff on. Their parents probably dressed on.

Just to wrap things up, you know, Henry, you mentioned earlier that Barry is, he's great at being an assassin, but he hates it. Yeah. And he loves acting,

but he's terrible at it. I was wondering if for either of you guys, there's something that you love to do what you're terrible at. Oh my God. I would love to be able to draw. Oh. I love to be like an artist.

I know that's, but I honestly, I'm like, you know, comic books and things like that, and I love animation. But when someone, my oldest daughter has been able to do it

where she could just look at that and go, oh, it's, you know, this, she would look at the camera and get all the details right and everything. And she's eight. And I just don't know.

I have no idea how you do that, where you take nothing and can just make that. I wish I could sing like Sia, the boss, Bruno, you know, Adele. Yeah, Adele. Yeah, Dell's good. I do. I have her on my iPod. I met Sia once in a market. Was her hair over?

No. She walked up because she knows I'm a fan because I write her. and, you know, just, and she came up and she said, I'm Sia. And I went, I didn't know what to do. I just hugged her. Wow. But I wish I could sing. But I do take photographs.

I wish that I could take a great photograph. I am so dyslexic that I don't know how to use anything but an automatic. I cannot affect the picture in any way. I wish I could come up with a perfect podcast closing question. No, but this was a lot of fun. That was a good one. This is a really fun conversation. Thank you for being a part of it, guys.

So there are three episodes left in season one of Barry. There is a season two. Might be with a different Barry. Yeah, totally different. It might be Barry Sanders. Yeah, we might have Barry. Five. Oh, five is already.

Yeah, five has already been on. Yeah. So, no, it's going to, it might be Barry Sanders. Yeah. It's CBD. Negotiations are ongoing. We might just start. the season and it's Barry Sanders and it might be really interesting to just see his life.

Yeah. You know, and you go, oh, oh, it's that Barry. But the same low, like the same thing, you know. But I just had a torn meniscus. Oh, no. So I could not play an athlete. Right. They're complications.

I don't think we're going to be in it. It's just his life. It's tough to tell him on camera. Yeah. But this is where we, this is where we, maybe we should cut the mic. Yeah, let's cut the mic. I have that conversation with Henry outside. Such a pleasure.

Thank you very much. Today's episode of the watch was brought to you by Thomas's English muffins. Here is a breakfast I always get out of bed for. Thomas's original nooks and crannies English muffins. There's nothing quite like that irresistible nooks and crannies texture, perfectly toasted, crispy edges with a soft, warm center. How the butterpools inside all those nooks and cranny spaces is just amazing. It's a delicious burst of flavor in every warm, toasty, buttery bite.

Thomas's nooks and crannies English muffins are truly like no other. Today's episode of The Watch was also brought to you by HBO's Barry. You got to hear Andy and I talk to Henry Winkler and Bill Hader. As a reminder, Barry is on every Sunday at 10.30 p.m. on HBO from executive producers Bill Hater and Silicon Valley's Aligberg. The new HBO comedy stars Hater as a hitman who discovers a new passion for acting while on a job in Los Angeles. Do not forget to check it out. Barry.