The Watch - What Potential Movement on the Writers Strike Could Mean, Plus the ‘Hijack’ Finale

Episode Date: August 3, 2023

Chris and Andy talk about the news that the Writers Guild of America will meet with the AMPTP this Friday to discuss potentially restarting negotiations (1:00) and what that could mean for the strike (17:29). Then they talk about the finale of ‘Hijack’ and how the new lane for Apple TV+ is seemingly “mid-busters” (26:44). Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at the ringer.com, and joining me in the studio, he will not be flying Kingdom Airlines anymore. It's Andy Greenwald! I will be investing, though. I will be shorting Kingham Airlines. Oh, my God, Andy. Today we're going to talk about the...

I'm just sorry, I'm still thinking about this. Do you think Kingdom Airlines is like Alaska in that it flies to more places than the kingdom of... Where's it coming from? It's coming from... Dubai? Yeah. Right.

So, you know how, like, Alaska's whole thing is like, we're called Alaska, but we go to the sunny parts of Mexico. Do you think, like, we go to Oregon, too, yeah. But do you think, like, kingdom, you could get a kingdom air flight from, like, London to Amsterdam? I'm trying to think of, like, if, like, Emirates does that. They do not. Well, for people who don't know, Chris is referencing Emirates because that's where he flies mostly because he does the private cabins on their planes. Yes. And so he seeks out their roots.

Because if there's not a door, he's not getting on. Greenwald, it's fantastic to see you, man. I see a little bit of a sparkle in your eye. We're going to talk about the season finale of Hijack. I'm very curious whether it's the serious finale. Yeah. Kai, have you seen, are you up to date? Oh, I got the Apple TV notification on my phone.

This is great. We just like, we ruined so much for her. Yeah. I wasn't going to let High Jack be ruined. Whoa. You sound changed by this show. We're going to talk about Hijack. And then we're going to talk.

But first we're going to talk a little about the strike because there's been a little bit of daylight, a little bit of movement. Maybe, yeah. And we can talk about whatever you want, honestly. Jalen Hertz, becoming a triple threat player. Tell the people what our favorite quarterback has been telling people. Jalen Hertz is now trying to master not only throwing, not only running, but mind. That's literally we said. He's like, I'm a triple.

His job is mine. I don't see the problem here. He's been saying this for a while. that he's like a triple threat. He can beat you with his arm, with his legs, and with his mind. I think that he got a little crossed up on the passing routes there and said, it said, it said,

it said, beat you with mind. It's cool. Yeah. This is going to be an Eagles podcast by September 15th. It is going to be a sister pod to the Philly special. It's just what it's going to, it's what's going to happen.

Yeah. Kai can get ready for that. What's up with you? How are you doing? I'm good. I'm good. I feel like you, you come in sometimes.

you want to talk about food ways, cultural ways. Yeah, I mean, we could do that now. I was reading about the Mediterranean diet. Did you want to do it at the end of the pod? Because I've been thinking about whether or not we should keep it really hard news at the top and then slowly develop into banter. What do you think? People do like banter at the top.

It's a real 50-50. It's a real Pepsi Coke thing with people, like whether they like us chatting in the beginning and then getting into the world of entertainment or getting right into the world of entertainment. And then at the end, it goes off the rails. See, I've been wondering this because I do know, Do you like it when you listen to a podcast and it's complete bullshit for 10 minutes? I start Marin at the 12 minute mark.

Right. So I feel like anecdotally there are people who listen to our podcast in fits and starts. They'll listen to it when we talk about a show that they watch or if they're behind, they'll just miss. They'll just go away. Then there's Amanda Dobbins who just listens no matter what. And it's just like that sounds like a weird show you guys are talking about. Yeah, but she's our perfect listener. Like we do the show for Amanda and anything else just trickles down.

I think that not everyone can be as constant as Amanda, and I appreciate that. So actually, I was thinking maybe there are other people who are like, I enjoy that radio program to listen to my guys, just chop it up. And then when they're done talking about tin fish and they start talking about Idris Elva on planes, then I can like, I've gotten my check-in with them. I would be very curious to see not only our retention rate, but our skip, where people skip in the episodes. I'm sure that data is publicly available. They don't share that with me, I think, intentionally. But it is an interesting conversation about podcasts, not for us to have on this podcast.

But, like, I listen to an enormous amount of sports podcasts, and I don't often watch the games, you know. That's truly insane. I just like the banter. You're dreams. I know. But I know other people who anecdotally, like, they listen to, like, eight to nine hours of NBA potting a week

and watch maybe a game. I don't have time to watch the games. You know? How do you have time to listen to Bill for 10 hours a week? Because you can't watch the games in the car picking up your children from camp. Elon Musk is like challenge accepted. What if I turn the windshield into league pass? This is fair.

This is all fair. All right. So you, but you wanted to talk about you want to shift your diet? Is that what you were going to say? No, it's not even a shift. It's what I realize is that I have been a practice. I've been practicing the Mediterranean diet, which is in the New York Times today, the Grey Lady. It was like, this will make you live forever.

Okay, so this is a story they run every eight months. Do that? Basically, they're like, these people in Sardinia don't die. That's right. That's right. And then sales of tinned fish spike. It would be pretty badass if I could balance out 11 years of a pack a day with hummus. Like in terms of like smearing it on your face to protect yourself from UV rays?

Like the scales of justice wise, like when it comes to like. But this is the opposite of the Mediterranean diet because I don't think, you know what you can, can't say in Greek, cheat day. I just feel like it's a very American concept being like, I will go to Barbenheimer and eat jujubis for nine hours. But if I do a spirited Runyon canyon hike in the morning, I'm back to zero. Yeah, that's true. I don't think it works like that. What do you think the Greeks think? How do they make it even out? I think the Greeks are like, did you enjoy your time smoking cigarettes and dark bars? Like, then that also had a positive effect. It did. It brought me here today. It brought us closer together. Every single decision I made in my life.

brought me here today. It's kind of true. You know, I realize there's a loneliness that I don't feel anymore, which was the loneliness of being like really in a good conversation with you and other friends. And then you guys just suddenly fucking on mass getting up and migrating like birds. Like you didn't even communicate. Well, I mean, did you prefer that to like me fucking lighting up a dart in your face? Well, I lived through both. Yeah. But there's a, there's a particular, the real victims here are the non-smokers, is what I'm saying. The loneliness at the bar, you know. I met some great people outside of bars who were like, can I have a cigarette? Hey, I wanted to ask you, do you even write, bro?

Is this happening? Are you going back to work? So what Chris is referring to is the news that broke this week that there was a proffer. I guess this is all like very siege talk. The AMPTP, the coalition of studios and streamers, reached out to the writers Guild negotiating board with a text that I believe, and I have in front of me, it said, you up and asked if they could talk about maybe talking again. And that was received positively. And so there is, as we're recording this on Thursday, I think that there's a tentative meeting set for tomorrow, the details of which have not been released, which will be, I don't know whether

it's just Carol Lombardini from the AMPTP and Ellen Stutzman from the Writers Guild or larger representatives of each faction meeting to be like, is there a way forward to restart talks? Where do you think Carol and Ellen would meet? BJ's on Alvarado at 2 a.m.? Then we would be done. Then we would get this done, you know, if it was just, if it was real. Pachino and Tone Loak style and heat.

Who's who in this construction? I have no idea. And then there was some unattributed scuttle butt that this came out of informal sessions between powerful people on Wednesday. trying to jumpstart this. So broadly, this is a good thing.

Talking is better than not talking. It is inevitable, I think, that this was going to happen, that the AMPTP, the Writers Guild position has been consistently, we will talk. You're the ones that don't want to talk. So AMPTP said, okay, let's see if there's a way to talking. That's good. And anything beyond that, broadly is noise. No one really knows anything, but everyone seems to know someone who says they know something.

So there's a lot of rumors, a lot of gossip going around, and just a lot of people generally being caught flat-footed because we don't know what this means. This could go a number of different ways. They could get together on Friday and realize that they are still very, very far apart and nothing comes of it. That would be surprising, considering I think there is desire to move things forward. But then this would only be the first step towards restarting what could be a lengthy renegotiation process. I think the biggest surprise, we can just go, we could do some headlines here. Of course. Is that the studios came to the writers first. There was a baked in assumption, one that I think I expressed on the podcast recently, that they would go to SAG first, that they would address the actors first, that the actors are

more high profile, thus more damaging to the larger industry, but also to the AMPTP's brand or whatever it may be. And that that would be a bigger, that's a bigger fish to fry. Also, that thought stems from the fact that the AMPTP playbook was humming very well until the actors walked out, which was, the writers are going to strike because that's just what they do. We're going to settle the directors. That happened. We'll settle the actors, and then we'll get back to the writers when we feel like it. And that was where the, we're going to make the anonymous quotes about we're going to make the actors like lose their houses first.

The writers, lose their writers. Yes. Well, I guess the actors could lose like their beach houses. Right. but some actors. What was striking to me about, there's a New York Times story today, Thursday, talking about these recent developments.

And all media stories should be, you know, you have to have some salt involved because you just don't know what the sources are. Yeah. And how weighted. It's the same thing with reading about the NBA. You have to be like, why are all these anonymous sources,

like pointing in one direction? If you're going to say Justin Herbert's better than Jalen Hertz, you put your name on it. That's right. That's what I say. But the takeaway from the, your time story that was kind of surprising was the suggestion that the AMPTP is turning to the writers because the actors are running too hot, that the actors have somehow crossed a line and been

so dramatic and hurtful with Fran Drescher being like, you know, you are disrespecting us and and not just her. Like, this has been a refrain. And we were joking about this, that if you give actors a soapbox, I mean, they are going to take it and make every speech. There was headlines this week because there was a sort of cohort. of very successful actors who all donated, I think, upwards of a million dollars each to the sort of relief funds that were going into that stuff. Yeah, some Merrill Streep, George Clooney. The Rock.

I think he was involved in that The Rock. I believe the other day you mentioned, like, is Jason Momoa picketing. I haven't seen him, but he is giving away his branded water. Like pallets and pallets of it. And it is icy cold. Yeah. And I have really enjoyed it because it comes in these aluminum bottles. Yeah.

And so I'm on his team. He's kept me very well hydrated. these last few weeks. Eddie's hosting Shark Week. So what more do you want for the guy? Anyway, so this idea that they're turning to the writers because the actors are running too hot is kind of interesting. I don't totally buy it because I think that, you know,

to be at the position that these studio heads are in, you'd think that they would have slightly thicker skin, that it really wouldn't be as driven by hurt feelings or personal animus, but maybe everything at the end of the day is driven by that. it may also be that these things have to kind of run their course a little bit, that the actors are running very hot right now because they are new to the picket lines. And they need to kind of express some of this vitriol before they can come back. I'm not sure, because it's not as if the writers have tamped down our expectations

or our read of the situation. I'm not entirely sure. The big picture that I thought was interesting was some, if they get back into the the room to restart negotiations in the next week or two. I think that I wouldn't read too much into it, but from a personal unsourced opinion is that the negotiating committee of the WGA, which has been very strong on a lot of these things, wouldn't enter into the room without a real...

They're not going to go into the room to just be told, like, you're still, you know, our offer is what it was when we first last talked. They're not Charlie Brown and AMTP has the football out for them to kick. I don't think that's the case. Okay. But I think what's interesting is how can you, what are people's priorities here? Because I think that the change that's being asked for on the writer's side is, I am completely in line with my union on this. But you could divide some of the asks between monetary asks, essentially, increased minimums, you know.

Residual stuff? Some of the residual stuff, exactly. and what someone a lot smarter than me about these issues refer to as cultural issues and cultural wins. Like size of writers rooms and stuff? Size of rooms, but then and then even further than that into the AI stuff and the nature of what this job even is or could be. It's possible that a good, even great deal could be offered on the first things with a lot of the secondary, I don't mean to say like in terms of value, but in terms of the other bucket of cultural issues could be, hunted could be put into like, we'll continue to revisit, we'll renegote, you know, we'll examine.

It's only a three-year deal, right? It's only a three-year deal, but I think that that could, there could be a divide in what people want. Everyone wants to get back to work. But I do think that there are, there's a generational divide where younger writers very, very much feel this as existential. Sure. And in three years, what is the business even going to be, considering how much it's changed in three years? And that we may never have this. Yeah, like we hadn't really even seriously considered it AI at this time last year. Right. talking about like fucking crypto or something.

So like, it's kind of funny to like... We're so good with this stuff. But this was like, yeah, that's that thing from Terminator, right? And now it's like, oh, no, this thing that can, that can, you know, conceivably replace a lot of the, like, content creation class of the United States. Yes, it's the same way with, like, how warm's the water in Florida? Really? It's funny. But it is a little like, oh, we're doing this now?

Yeah. Yeah. But anyway, like, what is... This, we may never have... I was with my wife last night. We were driving back from dinner, and she was listening to Busy Phillips's podcast. And Busy Phillips, like, while recording the pod, got a notification that the Atlantic current was collapsing. And, like, just started crying.

On the podcast? I need that more from you, that kind of radical vulnerability. I just put my phone on Do Not Disturb. I'm happy to do it. But the problem is I also get... I would look to Kai for this, but she only gets notifications about episodes of hijack. Can I... I want to say the thing.

that I wanted to say about like the negotiating power may never be stronger than at this moment with the dual strikes and things where they are. So right. But I did also want to say that you know how your mornings you say begin with a text from me being like, here's nine things I've read already. Your thoughts. That's true. But what I don't know if you know is that my day begins at 545. At 545 in the morning, you know, yawn, stretch. It's kind of like the beginning of Barbie. But with the thoughts about death. But then I look at my phone to see what time it is, and I almost always have a push alert from the Atlantic magazine. And I think it's a bit now.

Because generally the Atlantic's social media strategy seems to be you think it's this. Scare the living shit out of you first thing in the morning, yeah. But this morning's was king because this was the Atlantic three hours ago. No, it says like two hours ago. This was at seven in the morning. So they said this at five of the morning. in the morning. West Coast time. Did America vibe its way out of a recession? Derek Thompson explores. Now, Derek Thompson, a brilliant guy, ringer podcaster. Did we vibe our way out of a recession at

five in the morning? Yeah, I think we threw the fucking aviators on and had an ice cream clone and we're just like, you know what, I'm going to spin through it. I'm just going to keep cop and shit and see what happens. You're not CR anymore. You're CW. Conventional Wisdom Ryan. I love it. Anyway, so that That is going to be a conversation that the Writers Guild is going to have to weigh seriously in terms of like what... Vibing your way out of the strike. Can we... Yes! Nice segue.

Can we vibe our way out of the strike? Or do we need to dig in for something that could get... This does begin to feel like the touch point where everyone's like, okay, now. Yeah. In a potentially productive way. I'm not at all privy to any labor negotiations between the WGA and the studios. It would make sense in some ways. if the first little like entreaties start happening and it starts thawing out early in August.

And that sometime soonish after Labor Day, this stuff gets all hammered out. That seems to be a lot just, you know, again, people cannot stand a vacuum. They cannot stand the uncertainty and not knowing. And so the conversations that I'm in are the group text, like as soon as the first thing that the talking about talking was announced, people started being like September 15th. I think October 1st. Yeah, yeah. Well, I heard from someone at Netflix that they're prepared to... So the chatter has begun, and I think that this is what would be considered by, I think,

you know, an unbiased observer, this would be... The next four to six weeks is the time, because to save any semblance of a TV season, any semblance of a summer movie season, they better get back to work. Summer movie season, awards movies. Well, this year, but I mean, next year's summer movies. Oh, yes. Yeah. Right. I mean, there are... I don't know whether or not... So like Craven the Hunter was moved to next year.

We've talked about all these films moving. Were they do somehow come to some sort of agreement, would the actors be right on their coattails? Right. So, by the way, I did want to make a point about the pushing movies thing. Some of this is bullshit that's being blamed on the strike. Like, for example, Spider-Verse sequel that was dated for March of next year, every article written about the, you know, I think brilliant,

Spiderverse 2, all of it was just like, it's so funny that they're going to put the next one out next year since they haven't started working on it. Since Phil Lord was still polishing jokes on this one, this morning. Like, that movie was never, ever, ever... I'm not saying this based on any insider knowledge. No, it's just... It's in articles.

It's also like they're just like, we were literally like tearing up large swaths of the movie and recutting it. So that movie was never coming out in early 24, if 24 at all, but it's convenient to be like, because of the strike, you have cost yourselves a Spider-verse movie. That's not, that's just simply not true. You've cost ourselves.

You know, that's one of the more serious wounds we could suffer, other than the warming oceans. The other thing from today, before we get into the actress part, was like, Zazelav and Warner Brothers Discovery were like, you know, we saved $100 million on this strike.

They also said that we're modeling, we are modeling to be back at work in September at some point. I think that... My guy Gunner said that. But I also just think broadly, like, they're not this dumb. That, like, they can say they've saved money, but they were planning on spending that money on content. And if they don't have content,

they will lose a lot more in the future. So it's not exactly great business. It's so hard to actually have any kind of thermometer for, like, the... Outside of, like, the actual, like, labor negotiations and, like, the impacts on people's wallets and the impact on the future of writing, all of which I'm very concerned about.

But it's also like I'm curious to see the actual knock-on effects of the strikes on current shows. You know what I mean? Like, for you, do you think that the rollout of Reservation Dogs is a show we'll talk about in a couple weeks? We're going to let a couple of episodes go by first and say winning time, which comes back on Sunday

and is a marquee show for HBO. But for the most part, has only been advertised from what I can tell on billboards on Sunset Boulevard. Yeah. And, you know, it's the second season of a relatively successful show with a lot of big names in it

about a huge subject. And it's kind of like, oh, yeah, we're any time's back on Sunday. Because there isn't the, John C. Riley tries to eat 52 snacks and 53 seconds videos that you usually mark the, oh, this is coming on, this is back,

this is back, this is back, that's back. Like, you know what I mean? I think it's an interesting, those two are interesting examples. because winning time in my, I mean, I know nothing, but in my, just use that as a pullout quote, maybe put that in the opening of the podcast. Winning time to me strikes me as a show that in some ways sells itself because everything about it is recognizable. But in this day and age, I feel like there is some like practical service journalism aspect of like doing all that stuff to be like it's back. Whereas there are many people in my life who are like, oh, is winning time back?

I agree. I think that, I guess I'm doing. doing a glass half full thing, where I'm like, if you have to be... Also, I think that the things that the writers are fighting for are more important than promotion of a show that's coming out on something. But it's interesting because we do, you know, especially if there's shows that we value that we want to have longer lives, we don't want them to be negatively impacted. We want everyone to succeed here.

Well, I wonder whether or not that had something to do with Old Gunner, the CFO of Warner Brother's Discovery being like, we're modeling for September because I can't keep putting out shows that no one knows are out. I think that's true. I think, but I do think that it's half a lot. full version is that winning time, it's just recognizable people playing recognizable people with a brand and NBA stuff and the Lakers. Like, we understand what that is. Reservation Dogs also, like, has a cast that, to our eyes, is chock full of stars and important performers and writers and

directors, multiple hyphenate threats who will be part of this industry for a long time. They are not necessarily mega celebrities. So the show kind of sells itself in a way. But, The flip side of that is why a show we've been referencing, you know, the new Britt Marling FX show. Yeah, I got moved to November. Because that's new. And they have to introduce you to all of it. And that's a really heavy lift. And it's not like the Lakers show is back.

You know what I think I'm really trying to get at is that as traditional viewing habits have dissolved. So when you don't have this sort of built-in expectation that all TV does premiere at a certain time, you know, like Gemstones is going to be on at 10 and, you know, winning time is going to be on at 9. that announcing its return in general is all the more important because people no longer have the habit of what's on HBO Sunday? You know, like, what is on, what's on NBC on Thursday? That's on showtime this week. You know, it's like they're essentially getting all of this stuff in a feed, maybe on their Apple TV or whatever,

but they're not looking for things. They're expecting things to be served to them. It's also, and I don't know if this is the case because this is already a couple years ago now, But in terms of like within the companies and the networks and streamers, the perception, not perception, I think this was based on data. It was much easier to grab attention for a new show than it was for a returning show. Yeah, right. Because people were so, like, that was sort of the value ad of like, if you sign up for the service, we'll give you a new show every week.

And just in terms of the way shows promotion, the budgets are drawn up, you know, traditionally, like they would have more money in promotional budgets for, a debut to get people paying attention in a second season even unless in a you know it may be different in success but there's less money to throw around unless you know people people aren't turning to look if they think they've kind of seen it before and that was internally being considered when the conversation turned to renewals or whether to steer more towards the anthology model because you've got to re-premise something every year um circling all the way back to your other question about the actors again the caveat I don't know um I think that maybe a better reframing of the,

we can't talk because Fran Drescher was mean to us argument, is really, it's not so much that as it is, Fran Dresher with her rhetoric has moved the needle and change the, what is it like the Overton window of like what's acceptable? Yeah, I mean, like, and also like actors who were on relatively big shows posting the residual checks of 10 cents. I mean, like, that's now like in the discourse, right? It is a, and this is also what happens when the AMPTP assumed actors wouldn't strike because they hadn't in 43 years.

Now they are. And they're feeling what that feels like. And the sense of community and the sense, and the whole shape of the intramural conversation about the career they're in has changed. And that needs to play out. And the same debate that I was trying to frame for writers in terms of like a monetary gain versus a cultural game, that has to play out within the actors too. I'm not the most optimistic about a lot of the deep. in this conversation, but broad strokes, I am optimistic that people do want to get back to work and people will get back to work. But whether that means everyone suddenly is magically back at it on October 1st or if a writer's deal is followed six to eight weeks later by an actor's deal and things finally start to rev back up after the new year, I don't know.

But that's a long time. Yeah, it is a long time. It's been a long time. All right. Let's take a quick break and then we'll start talking about hijack. The playoffs are here, and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul predicts. Follow all the playoff dishes, swishes, wishes, wishes, and misses. Predict the spread, the total points, and even the game winner. Sign up for Fandual Predicts and predict it from the couch.

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Book it with Priceline. Download the Priceline app or visit Priceline.com. Act. may vary. Limited time offer. All right. Our beloved Kingdom 29 has come to an ass over elbows landing. Yeah. At a military field, I believe.

Raff. Raff. Royal Air Force. Royal Air Force. Air Strip. I thought we could divide this final episode recap up into winners and losers. I mean... An old ringer war horse. I thought I'd try it out for this. So I divided... I think a lot of our topics I've put into winners and losers.

May I, having not seen your topics, lock myself in the cockpit and fly this plane where I want? Proceed to talk for six minutes uninterrupted where you kill all my bits. Absolutely not. I just hope that one of the winners is us. I did not have that as a winner.

See? Let's start with that. Why us as a winner? I thought this finale was sick. I loved it. I thought it was really entertaining. I thought it was really paced well. I thought it addressed things.

it left some things open. It chose well. You know what I mean? It fucking ended. And the things that it left open, I don't care about. It would be fun if they had a cool reason to go back to them,

but they landed the plane and that was correct. It once again showed that the creators, George Kay and Jim Field Smith, like they knew what entertainment they were making. I love that. And one other point before we get into your thing. That's all right.

This is part of my thing. Do you know what's really rare these days, I think, a series that gets better as it goes along. I think a lot of shows... I thought actually Full Circle is an example of that as well. Oh, that's true.

We should talk. And we will talk about Full Circle, which we both finish and we both really liked. We'll be talking about it on Monday. The ambassador from Guyana is joining us to talk about... We actually, I don't know why I'm being coy. Steven Soderberg is on the pot on Sunday, on Monday.

We actually are recorded it. So you feel confident that it's going to happen? You have the tapes? Unless she pours like a pineapple brew into her computer. I think we're good. No, but I mean that the most shows are, especially in this like, I was just saying this, like you need to grab people's attention early. Like a lot of the labor is on the pilot.

Yeah. No pun intended in this case. Yeah. RIP. But less so on landing the plane. And this was a show that had a very strong pilot, but I thought a stronger finale. And I really enjoyed that. Yeah.

I respected it. All right. My first winner? Yeah. Idriselba. Yeah, big time. The first scene of the finale, which starts basically seconds

after the sixth episode ends, when Amanda, as we learn, her name is, Amanda has gone, because I certainly remembered that earlier interaction she had with Sam.

Me too. I was so glad. I mean, I was like, why is he even recapping this for us? One of my favorite moments was their conversation about family. I,

uh, that scene where he's just like standing in front of the cockpit, it and he's got the passengers doing their coup. He's got fucking Stewart absolutely dropping the bag. Who's Stewart? Scyke. And he's just like, who was that?

Who was that? It's like, it was really captivating. And then you add that onto his whole phone conversation. I love that when they're just like, we just talk on phones now, like on the plane. I like that too. They just, when it was time to drop that, they just dropped it. So my understanding is now, we can get cute. We could talk on phones, on airplanes, via Wi-Fi,

but it would just be so rude because you'd have, like, 55, 100 different conversations happening, right? Also. Because I do feel like, I do feel like High Jackson's a bad message to people, being like, this is something you could be doing. We just ask you not to. Here's my counter. The Kingdom 2-9 flight was flying at the same elevation as my hotel room in London when I was there. So I don't think they need any special, like, 5G.

Towers. Yeah, they didn't need Starlink for that. Do you know what I mean? So I think at that point, it's basically just making a call. Yeah. But that being said, I did think that Sam's conversation with Alice where he has to like lie to her, he lies to her first and then he walks away. Now, personally, as like if I was a fellow.

Traveler. Captive on that plane, I wouldn't be like, oh, are you going to go have this conversation like down there? That's cool. Don't worry about me. We trust you, guy who waved a gun at us 10 seconds ago. agree. Idriselba is a big winner, and one of the reasons for it is,

and we said this the other week when we talked about how great he was on the show, they really knew how to use him and use what's great about him. I misspoke when we were talking about his signature roles, because it's obviously not just Stringer Bell, but also Luther. And I think the thing that runs through those parts is that he is, I mean, I've never met the man in person nor attended one of his DJ gigs, but he seems like a big guy. Yeah.

And it's why people want to cast him in action movies, want to cast him as Bond. I assume, again, I don't know, that one of the things that appealed to him about this project was they probably pitched it to him, and he assumed it was going to be like Passenger 57 or an action movie, but in fact, the twist in the beginning is that he's going to be like Jalen

Hertz. He's going to beat you with mind. Mind, yeah. But also it's going to be more passive at times and more conversational and negotiating. When he becomes physical in this episode, it's earned and he can fucking do it. And it changes the tenor on the plane, too,

because it was suddenly not one-on-ones anymore. It was everyone and him. Yeah. And that felt different. It was a nice change of pace. I thought, you know, and also like the moments where he was being obviously manipulative and he was trying to get Amanda to open the cockpit door

by like talking about her daughter and then talking about how Stewart had told him that LOD is going to be killed anyway. So like she has to think about what she's doing. like, Stuart. Really, I thought, I wouldn't say,

it's obviously not a star-making performance. It was like a star-solidifying performance for me. And it was like, you are actually the real, and you're inheriting the Harrison Ford, Liam Neeson, like you got the belt. One thing that I think we maybe could do

during a low period in culture or entertainment if there ever is one again. Because we're just swimming in stuff right now, yeah. It would be interesting to talk about movie stars or stars television rules, which is now very common, but the idea is like, who use this lane change best?

Right. You know, and you have the Reese Witherspoons and Nicole Kidman's who have kind of... I think McConaughey is the model. Rebranded themselves, but he, yes, but McConaughey was like

dipped down for a second to become a movie star again, almost. And now he's coming back to... Is it confirmed that he's going to be in Yellowstone? I mean, it's been so widely rumored. I just don't think anybody

knows how it will be executed. Like, is it going to be another spinoff probably set in Texas because that would really work for Matthew McConaughey to not have to leave Texas? Or is he moving into the ranch on the Yellowstone? And is Yellowstone still Yellowstone without the Yellowstone? These are the things that keep me up at night when I'm watching episode three of Lioness for the fourth time. Looking at the calendar, it looks like you have a solo pod coming up and you can... I actually, I swear to God, if Kai is on vacation and you're not here, I might do a lioness solo pod.

I would listen to it, 100%. The Lioness Tamer? that's what I'll call it that's also just that's just gendered in a cool way that's not what I meant just like here's the show about tough women and who's your guy to really put his arms right at it

and how potting about it also gives me dominion over the yeah you're just like talking about the Zoe Saldaania Nicole Kidman scenes you're like ladies you're both pretty come on calm down that's that's the lioness tamer is that is a good character I'm gonna let you run with it

I think I've just run myself into the ground but you know what I mean like I think we should do a podcast basically being like movie to TV power rankings. Like who's managed this? Because 10 years ago, this wasn't... This is a good idea. This wasn't Elaine.

Thank you. Yeah. I don't have them often, and I never have them. When you need to have them. Right. When I'm like, what do you want to talk about tomorrow? And I'm like, who is this? Who is this texting me?

Right. So, Idris, I said that to say, good job. I do want to bring something up, and I want to ask Kaya about it, because Kaya was pretty vocal, as she always is on this podcast. We can't keep her off mic. But she was saying, I think Sam's got, there's more to Sam than we know. You were like, maybe MI5, he's like he fought too well to just be a negotiator. Yes.

But people said that about Chris. He really hammered home, this is what I do. I'm a negotiator. They bring me in in big deals. I don't know why I'm kind of doing an Australian. That could mean like a hostage situation. Well, there was a moment. I don't know if you, Kai, did you clock this that like when he made the, frankly,

idiotic decision to go back for his jewelry bag. And we're going to talk about losers being the United Kingdom's entire security apparatus, I hope. At that moment, I got that same energy that like end of usual suspect's energy where I was like, oh, that's the last card. He was in on this or he knew something. Yeah, I thought it was a heel turn.

It was, right? I mean, it felt like that. Felt like it, yes. But it wasn't. But it wasn't. No, no, no, it wasn't. All right. The reason why I said, but it wasn't. Did you stop watching? There were some things that happened in the final episode where I was like, did I miss a scene or did I miss an episode or something like that? We'll get to that. Okay. So my big loser, number one, the prime minister of England. Yeah. Wow. I know. Talk about an empty suit. So I don't know whether this show was made during the Theresa May administration in England. It suggests possibly. That's a very interesting observation. It's made during the Liz Truss.

Or the Liz Truss. Can you imagine if during Liz Truss is like, like 80 days in power in England she had this on her plate. I think it would have gone about as, you know, the way this one. Cabbage Liz? Lettis Liz. Lettis Liz. Who's going to last longer, right? This head of lettuce or her

prime minister. What an amazing bit. Yeah, that's good. What an absolute fucking degenerates the English media are. So, pretty much this entire show, they're just like, the prime minister ain't shit. She won't be making any decisions. It's up to us

and she'll just follow our instructions. as home and foreign secretary. What's up with that? Is that like the case? Is that how parliamentary politics works? All successful shows. And she doesn't even get a cutaway. No.

All successful shows demand some suspension of disbelief. And one of the reasons this show was good. Before we pivot to dinging it, was because we didn't have to worry about a lot of the prime minister. Details. That said, the fact that this hijacked airplane is over central London. It basically just like does donuts on Piccadilly Circus.

And there is no media attention. There's a tweet. Is this England, Chris, you spend more time there than we do? You turn the BBC and they're like, the hijacked aircraft is now making its way past Waterloo Station, now to sport. Yeah. Like nobody is freaking out.

In the first test match, England has bested Jamaica. Yeah. And, you know, we're not that far removed from commercial airplanes flying into cities and places. Like, that, that happened. Yeah. They have, like, one city shot of, like, the plane, like, gliding over. It goes past the London Eye. Yeah.

They keep saying the London Eye over and over again. I wonder if the London Eye bought in, like, let's get some time on the show. Is that good PR for them? I don't know. I've never been on the London Eye. You can't avoid it, though. You walk by it all the time. Yeah.

So you can't avoid it if you're flying a hijacked airplane low over a city. It's just they were so chill about it. There are no people, like, here's just a free note. Like, maybe in the center of town, some people would have been, like, pointing their phones at it and screaming. Yeah. Yeah. But no, you know, they're going about their business.

The F.A. Cup is proceeding as whatever. Like, it was super chill. So, super chill. And I appreciate it. I'm done. There's the only English things I know. So you better bail me out. I think the, I appreciated the, what's the reverse of a heel turn?

A face turn? You're looking at the wrong person for that. But the home secretary is like, let's shoot them down. No, let's segue now. To my big winner, the homesack. Handing out bail left and right to whoever wants it. He goes up to the foreign secretary. He's like, if it's about killing 200 souls, it's on me.

It's cool. I'm not running for office again. I am the sin eater. Yeah. Put it on my plate. That's like what happened to Weebe in the water. That's what I'm saying, is that there just seem to be a dissolving of any kind of hierarchical decision tree. The Home Secretary is also like, do you not want to go to jail, Amanda?

That's not a problem. I personally guarantee there'll be no jail. It's a resigning matter for me. It is absolutely the case. And he's spelling it G-A-O-L when he says it, you can tell. He's like, you shall not be going to jail. I decree it in his majesty's government. Okay.

Do you think that she like walked a couple of years? yards off the plane or a couple years off screen. And I think a fucking SWAT team for her to pieces because she premeditated murdered a pilot of a passenger jet on the plane. With a handgun, she brought onto a plane. Yes. Yeah. And then took control of the plane and flew. And was like super prepared to crash it into West London. Everyone's assumption that Sam Nelson could personally negotiate an airplane out of crashing into a city, everyone seemed very secure. with this bet, like that this was a good bet. He's that guy. As if they had been

watching the show hijack and they were like, you know, I like the cut of his jib. This is going to be fine. Even the planners of the hijack seem to believe, because their plan, we'll probably get into this, I'm sure, but like, it was that she should make it seem as if they're going to do this to

extract the most money out of the tanking stock price and then she would nose up and land the plane. All of this is predicated on the idea that the Tomahawk jets aren't going to shoot it down, which they probably should have, right? Yes. I don't know the run of play.

It's pretty miraculous that that Kingdom 2-9 made it through both the Hungarian and the Royal Air Force. Well, first of all, we should once again return to the Hungarian special forces. That's who I want in my corner. Those Magyar mercenaries are fucking no joke. I know. They were ready. That country was ready.

Look, and I'm no fan of. Victor Orban's policies, but he runs a tight ship. Right? Like, it's clear. Home secretary, winner. Another winner. Amanda. Look, she gets to be the hero and she gets to be the villain.

She gets to play both sides. She gets to go to prison for the rest. I mean, it's a resigning matter for the home secretary. But also. Then he can resign. As far as I know about like English politics, they don't have problems with firing people. They also resign all the time and then they come back. Like Boris is still like, don't count me out.

But it also did seem like no one was in charge of the like the tarmac situation where they're like we're going to have a lot of bloke's with guns. Yeah. We're going to yell at everyone. We're going to arrest some people. The ones in zip ties. And at least one man in a beard, we will arrest. Yes. Potentially not the right one.

And then when another man we've never seen before. for dawdles on the plane, hangs out by the door, spend some extra quality time on the plane, and then kneels at the threat of gunfire, but then walks off? It's a very, what's the chain of command here?

Well, that's the thing, is that when they were like, the typhoon class, like fighter jets need a green light or a red light on this, you know, evaporating a passenger jet above the channel,

they were just like, well, it's like a kind of, it's kind of more of a quorum, sort of, We got to draw straws to see who's going to... But Amanda, by all accounts, seems to get away with first-degree murder

and a near-catastrophic terrorist incident. And her daughter gets to live. We don't know about that. We don't know about that. But isn't she on the phone with her at the very end? She's like, hi, darling, mom's going away for a while. So this is my question. And here's the losers.

Okay. Can we one more winner on Amanda? I'm sorry, Chris. Yeah, yeah. You know, I'm not a pilot. I'm not either a professional or recreational sense. For a long period of that time, it didn't look like Amanda was either. She was a consultant who knew where the buttons were, who then managed to execute.

She used to be in the Navy, so I think she used to fly. Isn't Navy boats? No, man, that's top-going. I mean, it's also boats. Their job is boats. But she did manage to execute what may go down his history as the most impressive landing ever. Yes. That was like Sully. That was Sully. That was Sully. Frankly, higher degree of difficulty.

Yeah, much higher. She was like bank real hard. Now, it wasn't the Denzel in flight? Did he roll it? No. She did not roll it. Long time listeners, no, I will never watch that film. Do you want me to explain what happens in flight?

Not a bunch of us. Actually, everyone in this room is going on an airplane in the next week or so, so no. Let's maybe in the fall when we really buckle down, you know, for like hearty soup season. Winter hits California. We can't fly. anywhere? We could talk about it. My loser is every family member or friend of any of the

terrorist hostages slash hostages who were being held at gunpoint so that the terrorists would do their job. Yes. What happened to them? Was there a group text that went out and been like, let them free, it's okay? And who sent that text? I mean, Edgar or Johnny and Edgar's dead.

Yeah. Johnny didn't seem to care. Johnny left that phone in the dirt. Yes. Johnny was fine with whatever. So maybe they're just being held by cleaning Crews and purpose. So are you cleaning crews all over England with like people in basements? Johnny was like a ref in the NBA playoffs. You just let them play.

You know what he mean? It's like I don't, I advocate. I'm glad you brought the cleaning crew because one thing that definitely changed over the course of this seven hour flight is the efficacy of the cleaning crews. Because the cleaning crew, the Scottish cleaning crew in Dubai is like, I will execute every motherfucker except the dog. Yeah.

Just for being. efficiency. The London cleaning crew seemed like they were headed in that direction, but then got distracted by the telly. Yes, and cleaning. And I think their work of cleaning, because then when they, then achieve their goal of finding someone to that, so talk me through this. I was like, so they they were not going to shoot him? I thought they were going to use Sam as like, or use Kai. Use Kai to influence Sam if need be. Okay. It wasn't an instant kill. But I didn't know, I don't know how they knew what Sam's role was on the plane, unless Stewart was like texting everybody and being like, there's this guy Sam was really messing with us. I thought they did. I thought that was why the cleaners were

dispatched there. I think they had an inkling because he had been the only one who had been in contact with the ground. Okay. Is, okay. Do you, are you guys like Kai? Like when I call you, does it say, does it say, have my job? Don't put mom's boyfriend as detective. Like three, three, police emojis and a siren every time he calls. And like when the ringtone is just like a Parisian cop. Also, it's not a Stewart situation.

Like, I know that guy's name is Daniel. Yeah. Presumably, Kai does as well. He does. He doesn't care for him. But they had, they executed great, great. I think maybe the main takeaways, the Brits aren't efficient. I think you're right. I mean, I think they think that they're efficient.

And I think they have a stiff upper lip. And they cue properly. Yeah, and they queue properly. The only efficient thing to happen in that whole episode is when is the cleaning crew were being evacuated and then they like grab them. Oh yeah. Detective Daniels personal hit squad should have been on the tarmac. They were, they were, they must have been Hungarian.

Also, I just don't know how Detective Daniel drove from like a bucolic farmland into central London and two different locations and was just, I guess maybe they had started clearing out traffic by that point because of the plane flying over it. Well, he also, he did have a siren. That's true. So maybe all the efficiency in London. Excuse me. Get out of my way. Thank you. Also, maybe there's a missing scene where everyone in London was freaking out and evacuating.

Yeah, that's true. And going the other direction. So traffic was the best it's ever been on the A-9. I don't know. What the roadway is called. I'll do my next winner as a combined thing. A little bit of a step outside of this. Apple TV Plus and Midbuster TV.

That's my phrase for this. Midbuster. So not quite blockbuster TV, not quite Wheel of Time, Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones type television. But like this in silo are exactly the kinds of things

that you would expect to see in the summer, like a sci-fi adventure and a sci-fi mystery and a kind of huge set-piece action drama. And they're just television shows. And they work really well. The two people, I feel most new.

warmly about this summer are Idris Elba and Rebecca Ferguson. Interesting. Yes. Love them both. They're stars. I would throw a third show into this conversation, even though it wasn't on in the summer, which is Slow Horses. And I think that these three shows, we don't know the budgets, we don't know anything

behind the scenes, point a real way forward for this television service. They don't need us to say they have a way forward. They can spend their way into any kind of success that they want. But these are three examples, I think it's a good term because they don't appear to be bank breaking shows. They are not wheel of time or whatever. All three shows have a star, you know, fairly high star level. Yeah, I mean, shrinking is another good example. Yes, I think that's probably right.

Where do you classify a morning show? Well, I feel like that's Apple 1.0 where it's like, we're going to break the bank. That is an extremely expensive show that only gets more expensive. Oh, it's coming back. She seemed delighted. So you guys can do that when I'm not here. That's fine. But I think that, like, we've talked about this a lot,

that, like, the more these companies get into the TV business, the more they are confronted with the fact that maybe people miss TV shows. Yeah. And so they're trying to find that middle brow, mid-buster. I like that range. Amazon has founded really only with, like, the Jack Ryan's, and the reachers of the world. And Paramount is just going all the way.

way into that. And that's a huge hit, unsurprisingly. This version really works for Apple, and it seems smart. You know, this actually, like, I didn't make it much further into silo, but slow horses and hijack are incredibly entertaining. They are incredibly like just what you want in that moment. They're very satisfying. And they employ not megastars, but stars in very, very intelligent ways.

I'm going to tell you something about what happened in the third episode of line us right now. Okay. Did you know that there's just a scene where a guy who's like also in the CIA goes up to Zoe and he's like, I need three of your team to help me with an extraction. I need to like basically steal a guy from the Texas, like, martial service. And she's like, why? And he's basically like, because Sicario was really cool.

And they just do it. They just do Secario again? They just do a prisoner transfer. Yeah. Sicario was cool. Yeah. Good movie. Okay. A loser.

Okay. Edgar Jansen. Oh my God. And just it's really, I think, a lesson to us all about day trading. Hmm. And maybe knowing when it's time to leave the bar. Yeah. When it's like, you know, it's last call, man.

This is people at the blackjack table too, right? You got to know when to walk away. I think there's also some other lessons, like just in terms of like how to speak to your colleagues in the workplace. Especially colleagues who are holding guns. Yeah. Well, he was going to kill him anyway. He was like, we're just going to do this earlier. But for what it's worth, like the stakes are much lower.

However, if I was sitting here and we're all in the same room, if I was sitting here looking at something on my phone, and then Chris got up from across from me, walked over to where you're sitting, Kaya, and you just murmured a few things to each other, I would put my phone down. And I'd be like, hey, guys. You was too busy making $18 million a minute.

I guess that can be distracting, but I don't think, I guess my point is that I don't think they walked far enough away from him. to be like, time to kill him. Yeah. Here's my larger question about what he was doing. When you short a Kingdom 2-9 stock while you're also orchestrating the crash of an airplane. Like, you get to just take that money, though?

Like, nobody's like, yeah, you can't. I guess you can do that because that's why we live in the world we live in. I guess the assumption is that all of these financial transactions went through. Traders. It was basically set up, like, Tim Scott's presidential campaign. where it's like there's a lot of money and it's going to some empty rooms in shopping centers

and that's legal because by the time we go to those empty shopping centers we don't know we don't know and it's like he never ran so that's my sense but they are very very confident that they're somehow going to be able to enjoy the fruits of this labor

right and they worked hard for it they did they did work those guys incredibly hard for it that's a great point and in America I don't know about England, we really reward success. But they just seem to know immediately they were like, who's been shorting this stock? The cheap side gang. The cheap side firm

has been sorting the stock. They figured it out pretty quickly. Yeah. My last winner or loser is just loser was just first officer coax. Really got kind of elbowed out of any meaningful flight time. Well, she's, when they were ever hungry, she was very important. Sure, for like five seconds there, yeah. I thought that. I agree.

And, uh. Amanda takes the glory role, you know? I think that the, I think there's probably room in a second season for just kind of a reckoning for the pilot's behavior towards women. Yeah. You know, like I think that he did savagely beat his co-pilot about the face. Sure. In order to let this thing start, he was carrying on an affair. Clearly there was an emotional element with the flight attendant.

The bursor, whatever she seemed, yeah. So I feel like we were robbed of that, you know. And also this is. You want a prequel? Yeah, no. It's a beckle test. Like, I'd like to see these women be able to talk about something other than the pilot and the way that he wronged them. Yeah.

I think you're right. And the way that he got his head blown off. Yeah, is that not retribution enough for... That's fair. Yeah, maybe Comax is like, oh. I guess it evens out. Things unsaid. It's like smoking in your 20s and Mediterranean died later in life.

Do you think that the reason why the UK government wasn't able to more robustly pursue the, who's the one person who shorted this stock. Thus, we could get, we could solve this case, is because the nation's only police officer was saving his stepson. Well, and then Archie Punjabi had been marginalized to be like, wait, what do you mean? There's the plane is over the city.

Do you think that they shared only the pilot script with her when they got her to do the part? I don't know. I mean, it seems like a pretty easy, like, gig. You basically, like, she took two cabs and then sat in the conference room for like a couple hours. That's probably right. I mean, the people who were on the plane,

like they show up for work. and, you know, you do costumes and continuity at six in the morning, but then you just sit in a seat for eight hours. Could be worse. I hope that the... Wait, do you have more? I'm sorry, I don't want to step. No, that's it. That's all my winners and losers. One, just a couple other small notes. Like, when, after the, these passengers have behaved better than passengers on flights that I've been on. Yes. Yes. Like, they did not complain about snacks.

They didn't say there's, there's an invisible person in the back. Wait, that's the collision that we need it. That should have been the wrinkle in the hijacking. So they behaved so well that the final indignity, this was the most real-life airplane shit, is that they were like, congratulations, you've survived this, leave all of your luggage and belongings on board.

Well, I mean, it was probably a little bit of a fire hazard. I get it. I would absolutely have taken my backpack. It's just a small backpack. Like, I would not... So you're going to be the one holding up the line, reaching the overhead? No, but I don't put it in the overhead. I have several screenplays in various stages of completion.

No, I'm like, guys, I pack four books because I can't decide. And I don't want to... No, it's... And their library books. Yeah. It's under the seat in front of me. I'm not leaving it. Well, you would have been like that mom who was just like... That's what I wanted to say.

So I was about to comment on, you know, I was going to write down an imaginary note about that. And then the mom was like, I'm fucking bringing this. The kids have been through enough. Yeah. That was a victory for my people. So the season ends. John Bailey still out on the run.

Presumably the guy who shot Edgar Yanson. Oh, we were calling him Johnny a minute ago. Sorry. He's out on the run. Edgar Yanson dead. Stewart arrested. Edgar with a tear in his eye. About all the money he didn't get to enjoy.

Did you see that? They really zoomed in on it, like the real tragedy. is the death of Edgar. By the way, your confidence with this man's last name. Edgar Jansen. You could keep saying it as if we knew that.

They said it's Edgar Janssen and John Bailey, whatever. Who said that? Archie Punjabi said it like two episodes ago. Why aren't you retaining any names in this show? Because that is my relationship to this show. I consider it a success that I don't need to know. We don't know much about, like,

detail about Sam. Are you asking if there's going to be Kingdom 3-0? Rio. Kingdom One-9. Yeah. Like, what's up? You guys want hijacked to come back?

It's always so hard. What if it's an anthology series? What if it's like a different hijacking, a different, maybe a different mode of transportation? Does Idris Elba get to come back? I really would love for that to be the case. But that's just kind of like how many times one guy? Well, we answered that when 24. Earlier in the century when we were just like many, many, many times.

Like the fundamental tenet of our entertainment, used to be that this shit happens to people again. Yeah. You know, like, at no point in lethal weapon four were they like, God, what are the odds? Yeah. I haven't seen any of those movies. I think it would be...

It would be pretty chill, though, if it was like Amy Adams is on a train and she's a negotiator. Why does it have to be Amy Adams? Come on. Do you not like Amy Adams? It's not my favorite. Really?

It's really interesting that this, like, anti-Amy Adams rhetoric is just, it's going viral. Wait, what? Bill doesn't like Amy Adams. It's not viral. You're telling me this. I've never,

I don't dislike her. She's very good in, the Muppets. Sharp object. She's phenomenal. She's phenomenal. She's phenomenal. Yeah, she was good.

She was good in them. That's my, that's my Amy Adams. Catch me if you can. Yeah, she's good in that. So you don't, do you want Idriselba to come back and be put in another tough situation?

What I thought was great about the show was that it was this flight and that it did not do, I mean, we all had that, like, panic attack last week that I was like, they're really going to do this to us. No, you're the one. No, Kaya and I share it. Well, because I was misled.

There are three people in this room. You were too busy, like, noting their last names. I panicked as much as I ever do when I think a TV show is ending prematurely and that I went to Google and I was like, oh, thank God. There's one more. So that whole thing lasted like four seconds. Yes.

Andy was like just flop sweating the entire episode. I was just chopping up lines of Xanax, being like, how am I going to? But so I thought they answered, they ended it, it's good. But I thought that the little faints and nudges and like the suggestion of a larger thing at work here with what's going on with the families,

what's going on with Johnny Janssen. Edgar Janssen, and I believe it's John Bailey Brown. Let me just make sure. What could happen next? How wide is this net? How deep does this thing go? Maybe it's just a whole season devoted to Stewart. D.M.Talkies.com. Edgar Jansson and John Bailey Brown in High

explained. Great. Seems like a legit website. Stewart, you know, just finding out that his entire family is now gone. That would be a great episode

of prestige television. That guy just got yor- That would be great. It's just like, I really want Hydrox season two to really like talk about the ramifications and consequences for these people.

But anyway, all this is to say, it's very much set up for there to be a season two and what would be best would be the completely different structure of the season.

And it's, And in my opinion, Sam Nelson would be in it, but he wouldn't necessarily be... Well, maybe he could move into the Alice role or like Archie Punjabi role. He's like, I'm on the ground. He's communicating with... Once again, explaining to people what he does for a living. I negotiate. On his phone.

I close these deals. Yeah. Okay. And in fact, my sense is that this was a big hit for them, not just because we're talking about it, but just anecdotally, it's doing well for them. You can see it on the charts. It is number one. Why would they not continue to invest?

These guys seem like they know what they're doing. doing. It's been a delight talking about this show with you for the last couple of weeks. This was a fun show. This was fun. Yeah. Sometimes TV's just good. It's good. That's great. Let's wrap it up here. On Monday we return. We're going to talk about Full Circle and we're going to be joined by Stephen Soderberg, who has a new show called Command Z also up. So he did full circle, but he has got a mini series or a web series almost called Command Z, which is airing on his website, extension75.com. I believe it's like eight bucks to watch the eight episodes. It goes to charity, right?

Yeah, it goes to charity. And it stars Michael Sarah and Roy Wood, previous guest of our podcast, Roy Wood, and Chloe Reckcliffe. And it is a very, very funny, very, very sharp sci-fi comedy. I'll put it that way. And it's about a Elon Musk-esque tech CEO who makes himself into an AI and creates a time machine to try and save the world by sending people back to 2020. So it's chill. Yeah, it's very funny. I talked to Stephen about that.

We talked about Full Circle. We talked about his career. It was awesome conversation. We're going to have that on Monday, but first we're going to talk about Full Circle. We get back on Monday, Andy. I'll see you then.