The Watch - What Went Wrong With Marvel Television? Plus, ‘Hijack’ Episode 6

Episode Date: July 27, 2023

Chris and Andy talk about the lackluster season finale of ‘Secret Invasion’ (1:00) and reflect on how Marvel TV shows and the larger MCU, which started with so much success and excitement, have devolved into a mostly meaningless cinematic landscape (20:36). Then they talk about the penultimate episode of ‘Hijack’ and why this has become the show of the summer (41:20). Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at the ringer.com, and joining me in the studio, recently released from English prison, it's Andy Greenwald. I'm so excited for today. We're going to talk about hijack. Oh, yeah. A show we like an Apple TV Plus, but... Which we also cannot seem to understand when it ends.

Absolutely not. Because we thought this was going to be hijacked Paloza today, and it was going to be the finale. And they just keep adding hours onto that Kingdom 29 flight. Which has happened to me on airplanes. When flying from Dubai? Not specifically. Okay. Not in hijack situations, but sometimes they take a little extra time.

Yeah. But I want to get into something pretty important first, which is the mystery of your personal life. Only because since we arrived here this morning, both wearing shorts. Thank you. Thank you, my leg, brother. I'm wearing shorts because I'm literally doing this podcast and then I'm going home. Well, it's also 100 degrees out. And I've been getting grief from some in the ringerverse, not the podcast ringerverse,

but the larger expanded ringer shared universe about expansion. my calves in the workplace. Yeah. But it's hot out. So I thank you for showing me. The problem is, is that when I got dressed this morning and as I was leaving the house,

my wife said, you look like a child who's been lost at the mall. And then I said... Did she say it lovingly? Like, she'd like to find you. And I said, and she was just, she said literally,

you're just doing the stupid pod with Andy. Who cares? I love her. So... You know what's nice? You know what's nice? First time call her. It's great to be.

be seen. So, but here's, here's why I bring this up. Because one of the first things I said to you was, hey, hey, pal, like, did you get the text I sent you last night? And you were like, okay, that's fine. It happens. There's a lot coming back and forth. And then you were like, maybe I missed it because I went to bed early last night. I was like, okay, it's another piece of the puzzle filled in. And then you were like, maybe you were like, maybe you didn't see it because as you mentioned to me, you had your pupils dilated yesterday. Not in a seeing Oppenheimer and IMAX way, but you went to an eye doctor. And then just, it looked like I was rolling the entire day. Right. So, so. So So right now I have this image of you, like cuddling up to bed at 8 p.m., unable to see anything in front of you.

No. And then, right before we hit record, you turn to Kai and you're like, Kaya, get ready for SoFi Stadium. Why were you at SoFi Stadium? I was going to see the ERAs tour. I don't know if you're up on that. So jealous. She just got back from her months-long trip around the country following Dead & Company. I know.

She's got one more concert to go. She loves live music. I went to So-Fi for the first time last night to see a friendly, quote-unquote, between Arsenal and Barcelona. and it was not that friendly on the pitch. A lot of two-footed tackles, a lot of cards, a lot of shoving. I left my house at 5.30. Now, you were not driving, were you?

No, my one with some compadres. Great. And I couldn't drive. I left the house at 5.30. I was picked up. I sat down at my seats at 7.30 p.m. Okay. It's a great town.

It functions. It is technically. Also, Waze is a satanic device. Yes. They're just like, make a left, make a right, make a left, go back in a circle and then cross a double-lane street across with no light, you know? My theory about Ways has long been that it is a like deep state conspiracy app designed to call the herd because it suggests just effortlessly. When are they going to have hearings about Ways? Like make a left turn across six lanes of traffic.

Yeah. What's it trying to do to us? You have like your kids in the back and they're like, Daddy, why are you crying? I did. Yeah. So wait, so you went to view an event that you couldn't see. I could see it. It was just the lights were particularly bright. You know, that stylization was really more about like the brightness of the lights. So it gets a little blurry. But by that point, I had recovered.

I had a box of vegan chicken with tater tots. It was like really the best option. Was that also a I'm blind mistake? Yeah, pretty much. And 5'3 Arsenal. Pretty exciting match. Did they play their best players? They did.

they did for most of the match. And then they started bringing guys on. Barcelona is switched out. They're starting 11 and a half time. The Catalonian way, you know? Right. Is he obviously their coach, manager? Yeah, he is still their coach.

Way to go, dude. He looked like he was incredibly ready for dinner at, like... Some vegan chicken. Mother Wolf, you know, like... He's thrilled to be here. Yeah. He looked like he had just closed a deal. Speaking of closing deals...

Yeah. You're still out there. I don't, you know... Sometimes I feel almost depressed asking for a strike update. I got two updates for you. We'll make them... quick, because this is going to be going on for... But they don't have happy endings.

Forever. No. It's real hot out there. Your boy's a little lightheaded a couple days this week. But keep it hydrated. I really appreciate the person who set up like a mister, so a fan over a bucket of water, and the water someone wrote on the bucket,

AMPTP tears. They used to have those at a lalapalooza. Misting things. Yeah. Yeah. I got more... The worst sunburn I ever got in my life was Lollapalooza 93, I think, which they held, for I'm sure everyone knows who's listening, but they held it in the ruins of a demolished

stadium in Philadelphia. Was it in the vet? No, it was where RFK used to be. Oh, my God. Was that the Nine-E Schnales year? It was, I don't think, it was, it was, that was the year that Rage Against the machine opened, and they came out nude holding their machines. and they had the words PMRC written on their chest in tape.

So this was a kids, this was an era when one of the most exciting rising bands in the world used their set in Philadelphia to just stand silently to protest Tipper Gore putting stickers on CDs. That's right. That's right. It was sick. We changed the world. Our local guys, the goats were there. But it was also like Primus and like Level 242.

Yeah. Nothing beats Back Sonic Youth pavement. We both were both there, but we didn't know each other. No. Red Man was there on the second. Superchunk, Moby. They were all on the second stage. I know.

I know. Pre-heat Moby. Pre-play, right? Let's stop the pod now. Yeah, no, that was everything is wrong, Moby. Anyway, the strike update was none of that. It was two things. One, the SAG stuff is really fond and exciting.

It's great to have them out there, much more crowded, much more robust, much more, dare I say, dramatic. The real excitement at Disney yesterday was a crew that rolled in. around 10 a.m. which was front-lined, top-lined, above the credits were Shea Wiggum, a hero of ours on the pod,

and his apparent buddy, which makes me really happy, our true godhead, Colin Farrell, who's been on this podcast. He has. A wonderful, truly like a great guy. Colin Farrell showed up in 98-degree heat

in Burbank, wearing black jeans and Chelsea boots. As you do. He's a camera. Irish guys don't know any other way. No, they protest and they wear boots. It was great. That was really cool.

The only other update is that, like, I think if they did want to break the back of strikers, they would be, like, the AMPTP would be provided. Like, right now, these picket lines are awash in ice cream sandwiches. Which starts, like, when you're so hot, you're like, that's a good idea. It's not. It's a terrible idea. It's not.

Ice cream, the older you get, the less of a good. good idea it is during the middle of the day like that. Yeah. So, and I've heard people, Chris, good people, sensible people say things as they pass the coolers being like, yeah, I think that's, I think it's time for a popsicle. I don't think it is. Popsicles are different to me. Okay, that's true. The popsicles are semi-healthy, but I think that they say time for a Popsicle innocently, and they come out with like a cool house double Moka chip, like size of my child's head bar. Yeah. And they don't make another loop. So I'm saying that would be wild strike breaking tactics. On the line, what's the vibe?

Are people like, this is going to go over the rest of the summer? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, nobody's talking. Nobody's talking. So. I don't have any, like, new insights. I was kind of thinking about how the dog days of summer are contagious.

You know, like, it starts, you know, you just have like an internal thing where you're just like, boy, the days are long. Boy, they kind of run into each other if you're still, you know, working. You're just like, another day at the grindstone trying to figure out what to say about, you know, hot dog eating contests and stuff.

And then it seems like even though we have Oppenheimer and Barbie in theaters setting the world of light, I went to see the movie theater camp this week. Nice. Very delightful.

That's the Bears Molly Gordon. It's a co-director and co-star. And the theater on a Tuesday at 530 was completely packed. completely packed with people wearing pink, people with hollowed out eyes staring into the atomic future. And then I think there is a knock-on effect where

theater camp's been out for the better part of three weeks. Full screening. That's great. Full screening for a rising tide. That's what I do think it is. I do think it's like people going to the theater and being like, oh, I can't get into these two. So what else is there?

It's either insidious or theater camp. Maybe you are the Venn diagram, but both of those things. Get me a movie that can do both. The most amazing thing I heard was a producer that I know admitted that he saw Oppenheimer at the 6am Sunday screening. Of IMAX? In IMAX at the Manchinese Theater.

They started the screenings at 6 a.m. He said it was full. Yeah. That's movie church. That's insane. The only other update I would have that's relevant to our podcast is I think I underestimated how strong the ripple effects would be from Bob Eikers' billionaire boys' club interview. From back at Sun Valley?

Yes. So we talked about this last week that right... It's not the front of people's minds. Yes. In an interesting way. I guess there's sort of two reads of it. And this was for people who aren't just glued to see NBC in the mornings like we are. But somehow listen to the watch.

Yeah. No, what's the Venn diagram of that? They go hand in hand. That like the day after the actors, the day the actress, struck Bob Eiger, the newly extended CEO of Disney, made some seemingly almost off-the-cuff comments when interviewed at Sun Valley, which is like a billionaire's retreat. It literally was a meeting. It wasn't just that billionaires go there, right? At some sort of convention for rich guys. Anyway, he was like, he made him a bunch of comments

that we, I think we said on the pod last week, that it was disappointing that the actors and writers' demands were unreasonable at a time like this. So the reaction to this continues to trickle down. One, this is enormous fuel. This was a gift. And it's one thing when a billionaire building his second yacht makes these comments and the writers are like, oh, I'm a little bit angrier. That's an imitation of myself. It's another thing when that inspires Brian Cranston.

Oh, I saw that. Charismatic and beloved star of television, film, and theater delivers an impassioned speech on the streets of New York being like, you, sir, will not rob us of our dignity. Yeah, it was very Keith Oberman. Actors love this shit. You know what I mean? It is a different animal. But it's so funny because Chris, it was like,

we will not be replaced by robots! It's just like, it's not exactly robots yet. You know what I mean? I saw some of the clips of the actors giving these speeches, and I love them, and I support them, and I stand with them. Some are the I robot actors, the tear just goes down. But don't you get the set?

I watch the actors do it, and I'm like, this is why we need writers to. Just a little bit. Just a couple notes. Just a couple thoughts. Yeah. So that was an interesting read on it. I think the other surprising thing to me was people are like, Iger said that because.

Yeah, because he's the dream we were. Well, for two things. One, he is the most polished and put together in professional. Like, he's slick and that's a good fit. Like for his job, that's one of the selling points is that he doesn't seem to get flustered. He seems to be to win people over and, you know, build with consensus and smiles. So people were surprised that he was knocked off his square a little bit. That's just not what he does.

And then also I think that some people on the, not on the other side necessarily, but people in the business who are not on strike who would like to get back to work very much are like really wishing that hadn't happened because Iger in many ways is the closest thing to an old Satum that we have. Like last time there was a strike, he was involved in getting worked out. He was one of the five godfathers kind of thing. Yeah. And he's one who I think, and I said this last week from, I've never dealt with him, but of people

who I know who have have had positive things to say about him. I've seen Bill talk to him. I've been in the same basketball arena where Bill said hello to him. What was that like for you? I was very far away. Did you get chills? Could you not, what were your pupils doing at that moment? What was the dilation level? Anyway, it did give a sense that this is, it has fueled some feeling of deep anxiety and uncertainty because, Jesus, if that guy's doing this and it's fueling this, where are we? That's my read of the moment. So, I want to, glad you brought Bible, I grew up, Because one of the first topics I wanted to discuss with you is, do you remember last fall? Fairly.

The Eagles were soaring towards the Super Bowl. The Philadelphia Phillies, well, I guess this isn't exactly at the same time, but the Eagles were kicking ass. And then the Philadelphia Phillies were in the World Series. That was great. In fact, there was a weekend when I was back in Philadelphia where I believe the Eagles played the Cowboys and the Phillies played the Braves in the Nationally Championship Series. National League Division Series? We beat the Braves first and then the Padres. Yeah, that's right.

So, anyway, that was happening. Division Series. And God would have time to be alive. It was great. And during that, under the cover of darkness, blinded by all that glory, we didn't notice that the Sixers were like one in ten, right? That's right. So these are all Philadelphia sports teams for people who are like, what are you guys talking about? I was kind of wondering whether you thought that given all the stuff happening with a strike,

and then on the flip side of that, the glories of cinema right now. Wonderful. And nobody noticed that Marvel Cinematic Universe just went into the basement, into a sub-basement, into the Earth's core, went around the Earth's core, like Hillary Swank and Aaron Eckhart

in the movie The Core, and then shot back out the other side and was pronounced dead on the scene by Anthony Edwards and George Clooney. Was the body the Marvel Cinematic Universe, or was it a scroll? Oh, was it a scroll? Now, Andy and I have not commented much

on Secret Invasion. We've taken the high road. When you don't have something nice to say, you stop watching the show. No, I actually did go and watch the finale. You did? Yes, yes. We had been following this. I did it just out of curiosity. I was like, I read the recap of it.

You're a pros, pro. And I just wanted to see how it looked. I knew that I wouldn't get all the story beats. I thought about doing this too. But I just wanted to see like, you know, what was the vibe? You wanted to see what Mrs. Nick Fury the scroll looked like? I got all that. I got all that.

it was pretty staggering. I will say Kingsley Benedere, who's great in Barbie, and is actually pretty good in Secret Invasion. I heard the Midnight Boys talking about him today. He's on one, that guy. But the Midnight Boys are a good example. They had to start their podcast by demanding that all panelists say something nice about secret invasion

before they got into the actual discussion of secret invasion. This is like a loyalty oath? This is like the Trump cabinet meeting. I have my ear to the streets And when I say that I mean I look at Marvel Studio Leaks Reddit And the price of the brick has gone down A lot

And I don't know That if I told you When Endgame came out That there is going to be Marvel TV shows They're going to do the Eternals and Chloe Zelle's going to direct it Like there will be another Ant Man movie There will be another Doctor Strange movie which was like an interesting like foray into horror.

There will, and Sam Ramey's going to direct it. And all these things I could have told you about this era. You could have told me there would be a Marvel TV show starring Oscar Isaac and Ethan Hawk. And you would, we were like sign us up. Sign us up for as many seasons as we can get. And the real, what I wanted to talk to you about is a note that I keep seeing

coming up over and over again where I, when I'm reading about this stuff, which is that there are not enough. I don't want to say TV experts. There's not enough of a TV sensibility to the Marvel Cinematic Universe's forays into television. Now, I don't know whether you want to say that TV stuff is an ankle weight around the movies

and dragging it to the bottom of the sea. I don't know whether it's a matter of the characters. I don't know whether it's a matter of a lack of coherence about the overall story that they're trying to tell. There's all sorts of things going on right now. But I was just, I just wanted to get like a vibe check from you about whether or not this is recoverable, whether or not this is fixable. Well, it would be silly to say that it's not fixable only because of the sheer amount of

money that is available to try and fix it and also the entrenched brand value. If the MCU, if Kevin Feigey came out tomorrow and was like, it's not the MCU anymore, this is called X, and we're changing the name of all the characters to X, I think it wouldn't do as well. What if it was X men? well, what if it was the X-Men's and he still got that card to play. I want to sort of just

I think it's important to focus on the angle that you're taking, which is the right one. And I just want to say, I understand that it is somewhat ridiculous for you and I to be weighing in on this having not been in the trenches with secret invasion minute to minute seem to seem. But I also think that we have

over the course of the past few months, if not last few years, been come increasingly disillusioned with this project. Yes. I still think it's worth noting that the free fall from having some goodwill about almost everything to now my default position is that this is bad, which is really sad to say. That's what my feeling is now, and I don't even want to engage with it, has been really dramatic. Dramatic or traumatic?

Depends who's listening. I just couldn't, yeah. Did they dilate your ears as well? They filled it with fluid. The fact that this seems to have lost the hardcores. That's the thing. And this is a project that I think was designed only to appeal to them is really noteworthy. I think there are a lot of reasons why we ended up here. I think, as is often the case with success, there is in the minute-to-minute decision-making of a giant expensive enterprise, there can be fundamental misunderstandings of what is successful here and that can have a trickle-down effect that ends up being a massive drop-off. I think one of the things basically here is the story of the last 10 years or 15 years was not,

aha, comic books have always contained the secret sauce to cinematic glory, which is everything is connected. It's that if everything is connected and feels meaningful, you can tap into something really special. What we're left with is just everything's connected. Absolutely nothing that they have done in the last few years feels meaningful or special in any way. And that's for a number of reasons. The stars aren't as bright. The, you can only threaten the Earth and Sikovia so many times before it just feels rote. Everything is on a global

scale, whether it's secret invasion or potentially even Moon Night. Everything is, or the Eternals. Everything is huge. So therefore, nothing is huge. The starting to become seriously an issue, CGI, which is starting? Well, I mean, it's like, it's, I think people are now noticing it outside of the like everything outside of like VFX hits everything looks the same yeah and it looks kind of shitty

when you compare what MCU is serving us versus you know a mission impossible where it's more actual practical effects or even something like Barbie which is a challenging one to one comparison but Barbie's visual aesthetic

was different you know and and breath of fresh air for that reason all of those reasons leave us to this place where, frankly, the MCU is now where Marvel Comics can be, which is everything matters, but don't worry, nothing matters. From what I understand, Secret Invasion was a global conspiracy of aliens who could be anyone, but they're not really anyone important, and also go see the Marvels. It's just...

And I hope you've seen Captain Marvel if you want to understand what's going on here with Ben Mendelsso. And there's such a profound flattening effect here that I would hope people are noting, which is just like you have Sam Jackson and Olivia Coleman and Kingsley Benadier and Ben Mendelsohn and Amelia Clark. And it's like for what purpose? Truly for what purpose? So that is a huge bummer. I also feel like it's worth noting. Okay, so wait, before we start listing things. So what is your read on this? Like, is this fixable? What do you see that? I have a, I am going to answer your question with a question, which is that one of the things that Marvel and Feige's been able to do over the years is actually go into the vault and bring

out characters that may have been counterintuitive as being first in line all the way back to Iron Man. I mean, Iron Man is obviously a beloved character, but wasn't exactly Spider-Man or the X-Man or whatever. Not an A-list. And he has been able to zag several times, most notably with Guardians, which I think in some was revived the entire franchise and gave the sense of like a post-Joss Whedon tone to the whole thing. That then trickled into everything. And that even though the Rousseau's were directing a lot of the bigger films,

like, I think that the combination of like heart and sarcasm kind of bled into like the creative DNA of the movies. Also, I think it's a fairly recognized open secret if it's a secret at all that James Gunn wrote Guardians material for other movies. I'm sure. That Tyca touched. Like these things went through other people's hands. And I was thinking about the last few, especially the MCU, right? So the MCU TV shows, with the exception of Falcon and Winter Soldier, which you'd think would, and honestly, weirdly, now in retrospect, is actually one of my favorite shows that they've done.

It's certainly flawed, but I was like compared to some of the other stuff that we've seen, I actually enjoyed, whether or not they're making bad character choices. and whether or not they have kind of gotten away from either we need to have like some stuff here that people understand and know about. Because you were telling me Secret Invasion is kind of like a curveball storyline in the Marvel comics. Like even in the comics, it's kind of like, this is sort of weird. Like it's a civil war among space aliens. But it was huge because it touched all the comics. So characters in Fantastic Four and X-Men were scrolls. Right.

This, to my mind, was like a potential storyline for. the next phase of movies. You know, that's how big it could have been, but they limited it to a TV show and they got Don Cheadle to do it. Right. And that's about it. Right. And Martin Freeman. So, yeah, so they cut it off at the knees, basically.

And then the other thing that I was just going to mention, which is another question is, I've been thinking about this a lot since Oppenheimer, because you get to see Downey in a non-tony-starred non-Charlock Holmes role for the first time in close to 20 years. And he's incredible in Oppenheimer. But what he did was in the Marvel movies, the casuals could just be like, I don't know everything that's being talked about here or why everything is happening. But I get the downy thing. And that's what I'm here for.

And I don't know that they have really replaced him in any. And I don't know if you can. And I wonder whether or not we'll get two years on from now and whatever happens with the sort of plan that they've got put together and when the Fantastic Four comes or whatever. But we'll look back on this whole thing and be like, Oh, it was Downey. Well, I think it's Downey and also what Downey represents and also what James Gunn doing Guardians represents, which is, look, fundamentally, this is not rocket science

or rocket raccoon science. Like, brand management is a different category of existence and being than making a good movie. They are often at odds with each other. I understand why one leads to another. Like, making one good movie tends to now in the way that, you know, movie studios are offshoots of publicly traded tech companies, like brand management then becomes paramount,

not the studio that used to distribute the Marvel movies before Disney bought it. I get that. It's the same reason why, like, AMC, the network made Mad Men and Breaking Bad and Walking Dead during a period when it had nothing to lose. And nobody was checking for it. And it could take chances. And then all of a sudden, as soon as you take a chance, then you become risk averse. I think people who are now noticing

or that's being reported on, the stuff that we were commenting on when there was the New Yorker story about Mattel a few weeks ago before Barbie opened, I think that people are paying more attention to that news now because now in the wake of Barbie's enormous success

like, oh, Lena Dunham has cast Lily Collins as Polly Pocket and all these other things that are coming. I feel... You said that with a tremendous amount of enthusiasm. Thrilled. Siked. Siked for Lily, psyched for Lena, just psyched for all the Polly stands

around the world. I think the Barbie movie was a miracle and I think Greta is a god-level talent. I also think that she, because she's so smart about things and not just creative, she probably recognized that she was going to make this movie

at a very unique moment when Mattel needed her. More than she needed Mattel. More than she needed that. She also got the buy-in of a star who was the executive producer and the green light of that movie is Bargrawi.

And she then in turn turns around and is like, I will protect Greta Gerwig or I will not be in this film and that's why you get to see what you see on the screen which is the singular vision with all these other craftspeople and all these other artists but is the singular vision of Greta Gerwig up on the screen

and when you see a lot of like clips of people who are like I don't know am I in one of these movies I was just in Atlanta for three weeks or like I don't know they don't tell us how the show ends they just have a shoot things and then they clip them together and the VFX houses saying like there's some over their shoulder being like, we need you to do, like there's a shot in the finale of Secret Invasion that's obviously like we need to do ADR to do a connecting either, I can't remember

if it was like a transition from one scene to another or just like a larger point about the MCU that they need to make. But it's obvious that they're like cut to an overhead shot. Do we have an overhead shot here where we don't see anyone talking so we can fill in. So that we can get somebody to come in and do ADR for it, which happens in all shows. I'm not saying it's bad, but it's like, I think one of the things that MCU had going for it was this feeling of like, oh, they've really, they're dialed. Like they... It's a system. Yeah, it's a system.

And people seem really excited to work there. Like, Ryan Coogler seems excited to be there. Everybody seems excited to get in there and work on stuff. And now I think that there's a little bit more of a like, sure, when stuff gets a renounced, everybody's like, it's been my dream in life to play Moon Night. But there is like a more of a vibe of... How much longer are we doing this for? Yeah, well, I think there's a couple points here. One is, I don't feel bad for the people who make Polly Pocket

and all the other Magic 8 Ball movies or whatever because they're going to get paid and hopefully they'll get a chance to, and maybe I'll be proved wrong about this. But I do think Mattel two weeks ago is different than Mattel now. Because two weeks ago, they're like, we want to be invited to the party. And now they're like, everything is going to be measured against Barbie, which is hard for everyone. Yeah.

They have a lot of money to spend, so maybe it's something good will come up. We don't know. I think in terms of the MCU part, I think a lot of blame is going to get put on Bob Chapeck because he's no longer the CEO of Disney. And the idea that he... You think Chapek was watching Secret Invasion Dailies before... He was like... He was like, my last all-hands meeting, I want you to know that Gaia, daughter of Ben Mendelssohn's tell us,

should be the most powerful character in the MCU. That's what I want. For Amelia. It's really a remarkable IMDB page that she's got at this moment. moment. So I think a lot of blame is going to be put on him for flooding the streets with television content and basically being like, you've done it here, now do more over here. That was the mandate that Iger has now deftly walked back, but I think that was Iger's mandate too. And I think that there was an assumption that, you know, if the tap is flowing, just keep it going. To my mind,

one of the problems of this might, look, I'd love to talk to Kevin Feigy. I don't know if we ever will on this podcast, but my sense from talking to people who have worked with him and worked around him and talked to him is he is not like I mean, no one is suggesting that he's a villain, but he is, from what I understand, the opposite of a

corporate pencil pusher who's demanding if anything, the sense that I get is that he loves creatives and he loves making these movies and that above all else he loves Marvel and that what he loves is being like, yeah, there's a character called Moon Knight. Guess what? There's also, you know, Miss Marvel is connected

to Captain Carol Danvers this way. Like he is the most successful version of comic book guy ever, who is proselytizing and loves sharing this. Loving this stuff so much might not be the same as making a good movie. These might be at odds with each other, you know? And I think that he's the most successful executive in the history of movies for a reason. But one thing that was bracing about this weekend, not just as Secret Invasion cratered like the Sixers did in the early part of the season, but one.

when Barbie captivated. And Oppenheimer captivated and why they captivated, right? It's like, it's a shift. It's just fundamentally a shift in the way a lot of these companies have been trying to do business due to the decisions, honestly, made by Bob Eiger. Yeah. I, you know, I don't actually know that you...

I'm sure Bob Eiger was like, can you start making five-hour versions of these things or six-hour or eight-hour? And they were like, yeah, sure, if you want to give us the money, we'll go make Wanda Vision and Loki and we have like some ideas. Yeah, everybody wants to want. to do this and we'll pay them. I just, look, I don't really remember the state of whatever NDAs I signed, but in my experience working on a big thing for a big company that may or may not have

been bought by Bob Eiger, like the goal was to make a good thing. One good thing. And that goal, I think, was not in line with the larger corporate goals. Not to say their goals aren't to make good things. I want to be careful. But to make a single good thing, he's not necessarily lined up with all of the corporate desires to manipulate, to get the machines, get the things rolled out. Get the machines.

Not like Brian Cranston. I mean, just get the whole. The robots. Get their arms. The robots will not have these jobs. Or droids, whatever. But get their arms around the entire apparatus of fandom and history and like, let's roll it all out.

And always attempt to please the hardcore people first. Like, as if, like, it's weird. Like, imagine if like a political party did that, you know? Yeah. Ever tried to just cater to the hardcore extreme people? the base. Can't imagine what would happen. But that's what we're doing.

But if you play to the base and you lose the base, then you got nothing, right? Like if they don't have a, I don't really want to keep going with this, a centrist Marvel movie. And one that people feel like, look, like I actually personally feel like

what they've done wrong to is just kind of underutilize some of the talent that they've brought along. Yes. I think that this whole thing, seems more siloed and hard to understand than it did 10 years ago. And partially that's because of the TV stuff. I think partially that's because the story engine is this multiverse stuff that I think for a lot of people is a thrill the first time you see it or cool the first time you see

it and is now they have been hammered with it. Not only in Marvel, but in DC movies and in other stuff where it's just like, what if every, you could go back and you could fix every problem you ever had, but then you'd have to deal with the consequences. And like, that's, that's, that's, getting a little bit more complicated when you get into the Loki stuff, you're just like, what the hell is all the, are the branches and the time authority? And I actually,

obviously, Loki's probably the best thing that they've made in the last five years. But I don't think that they're using the talent that they have in the right way where it's like, look, if you guys,

I like Simuloo, if you think Simuloo is like the guy, like, why isn't he showing up in some of this stuff? You know, like, why aren't, why isn't there that cross-pollination

that made the first sort of few dozen movies feels special. I think well... Maybe I miss the Avengers as a 45-year-old man. Is it adjacent... Is it adjacent...

Is it adjacent conversation to this? What we're talking about is also why I think the Superman movie James Gunn is making is going to be good. Because all movies,

regardless of genre, are the product of their contexts, you know, and in this moment, doing something fresh, starting something new, unburdened by

all the continuity and whatever, and also the spirit that he seems to be bringing to it, and also casting a guy from Philadelphia in the lead, makes me think that that's going to, I just feel like that's going to work.

Yeah. I really think your point about using the talent, though, matters. Because... I guess they are doing it with Brie Larson. But when I was talking to, when I've been talking to people picketing, I think there is a sense that not just, you know, this feeling of doom in the industry and if we hope the joy that if we get back to working again,

but also the possibility of this Barbenheimer weekend. actors want to act. Like, they want to create things. They do not want to be wearing these suits in front of the volume forever. I just think that they don't. And the paychecks are good. The camaraderie was nice. The global fame, probably not so terrible.

But I think people want to do other things. Well, we rely on actors to do one for them and one for us. You know, like I was looking at the pictures of Chris Pine is in a directorial debut called Poolman, where he essentially looks like he's playing the Big Lobowski and he becomes like a sleuth, becomes like an amateur private detective. And he's directing this film. He looks like Jeff Bridges in the Big Lobosky,

but he looks incredible. And I was like, thank you for doing Dungeons and Dragons so that you could do this movie. That model certainly exists. And I don't know that enough actors are doing that right now. But what I'm saying is, if they look at, again, no one might be one of one. But I feel like if there's a world where,

I mean, look at the cast of that, movie. And if you get, Killian Murphy certainly, but Downey and Damon and Blunt and our girl Flo Pew, and you put them in a movie that isn't set during the early years of the Cree Scroll, the confrontation, I guess what I'm saying is who's going to try one more time to make the firm? You know what I mean? Like who's going to get good actors who are tired of this other shit and do the best version of a movie that isn't connected to Tessor? Wouldn't people just direct that to Apple TV? Well, that's my question.

If you... Did you see my sec by coming? If it cost under $100 million to make, there's no reason why it should cost something like that should cost $200, $300 million, right? Like, I just feel like one of the lessons from this weekend be like, can we try it again? Can we put something in theaters and try it?

If it's the best version of it, you know? I don't know. That's a long arc to get from why. Secret Invasion was a pretty bad TV show and seemingly like recognized as such. I saw someone on our on our Facebook group. They ranked at 40th. Out of all 40 projects. So that might be recency bias, but I feel like if you're watching all of them.

I think it's been roundly like ejected from like the memory banks already. And I think people are kind of like hoping that this, that's the end of that. And I know that it goes right into the Marvels. And I'm sure the Marvels will set up a bunch of other stuff. I don't know what they're going to do with the, the subsequent movies or when they're going to get back to work on them or the strike and everything else that's happening. So I do think we're at an inflection point. Speaking of Facebook, you know, it's my favorite app. And one of the things that I get service.

Are you on threads? No. Okay. No. I, speaking of being in our mid-40s, I'm like, I'm not on thread. Send me as many invites as you want, but I've, I've learned a couple things. I'm good. Me and Kai are going down with the for you tab on X. That's you guys? Yeah, that's great. Just start the morning with a little bit of like just absolutely nauseating political discourse. And then put some hot coffee on top of it. They go to sofa.

So the only things I get serviced these like, I guess because of my interest, you know, we've talked about like I get serviced pictures of Jean-Claude Van Damme's family and people are like beautiful family. I also get serviced like sickest builds and Zelda tiers of the kingdom, which I pause and watch every time. Sure. But for family reasons. Van Dam family reasons But the other thing that I get Would John God Van Dam playing Zelda be like your perfect piece of content right now? I feel like...

Not playing Zelda the actual character, but like playing the video game. I feel like he would struggle with Ultra Hand, which, you know, again, we could talk about in a podcast, but you're not ready for that conversation. Is that something with like the Switch? Is it like a Wii thing? Are you just naming consoles? Is it GameCube?

Is your job beach? I play video games. It's okay. Hey, guys. Hey, hey fellow kids. You guys like to Twitch? One of the things I get service is like Marvel fans UK.

And it's just like, hey guys, made a fan poster for Kang Dynasty. Check it out. And it looks totally plausible. Yeah. And it's just like Benedict Cumberbash, Simuloo, all the other people from the TV shows, and Tom Holland. and it's like fucking epic. And I look at this and I'm like, this looks like a hostage video.

This is the saddest-looking thing I've ever seen. And obviously it's fan-generated. But the picture they chose of Cumberbatch to be in the middle with this little hairpiece on, and it's like, they don't, I don't think they want this. Cumberbatch or the fans? I don't know who, I don't know who wants this. The thing that's missing, and I know that's a dead end for us to be like.

Who is this for? I'm not saying that, but I think that all of this is a response to something you correctly noted, which was as recently as, as six months ago, when everyone like strapped on their helmets to get into the content minds to cover a Marvel TV show, and you were recapping it

for a website where presumably these things drive traffic, there was a air of super, I don't want to say genuine, but at least enforced good cheer, right? Like maybe you miss this thing that, you know, guess what, she's the, Sharon is the

power broker. But you didn't know that. Like there was a tone of we're all having a good time here. Yeah. And Isn't this fun now that we know Sharon is the power broker? And that, sorry, spoilers, that Sharon is the power broker. I don't know how you knew Sharon was the power broker, right? She's nodding. But my point is that when that...

She saw it on the 4U tab, actually. When that, that cheery, every time you say that, I think you're about to say 4chan, which worries me. It's just like, Kai, it goes, powerbroker post, then Yimbi, Twitter, and then, you know, like something about girl dinner. When that cheer has leached away, that does, it is significant. We don't even have to pretend anymore. Yeah.

I wasn't pretending. I was interested in it. In the 4U tab? I was interested in the MCU project. I thought like this was like a pretty interesting like. Oh, I don't mean we were pretending interest. I mean that people were pretending the good cheer that all this is fine and good and that Popa Feigey's going to fix it and that this is building towards something that we'll all feel good about and we'll feel like chumps that if we missed, you know,

well, I was going to say Whirlwolf by night, but that was actually pretty good. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Ever have a plan come together out of nowhere and realize you're missing something? Like a last-minute beach day, a spontaneous hike or an outdoor movie night

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This episode is brought to you by the Active Cash Credit Card from Wells Fargo. That's a mouthful, but that's because it packs a lot in. Earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases with it, big or small. So whether it's buying tickets at the game or grabbing a coffee, it earns unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases. Say it with me. The Active Cash Credit Card from Wells Fargo, be a 2%er. Learn more at Wells Fargo. com forward slash active cash terms apply. I feel like a jump because I thought Kingdom 2-9 was beginning its final descent. Okay, this is we really have to, we have to call this.

All three of us, Kaya as well, experience this. Kaya is on the plane. Kaii, have you decided what section of the plane you're in? I mean, I'd love to be business class. Fly flats? It seems like a lot of decision-making is happening there, though. A lot of attention paid to them too. No, no, because the decision-making is happening in first class.

Yes. And then you have your business class. Oh, so you want to be in business. You want to be a business. Comfort Plus kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, I want to comfort plus. I don't want to be in first. There's too much like pilot.

You're too close to interest. Yeah. Yeah. We're talking about the show of the summer, by the way. And we will eventually get, we'll get back to Justified in Full Circle next week. And I know Full Circle wrapped up, but I'm sorry to Steven Soberg and to Claire Dane. Sorry Steven Soderberg, but the plane is still in the air. I continue to love that show.

I just really wanted to talk about Hyjack today. It concluded. I thought I was just like one behind. You are. It's five episodes. Oh, okay, great. Anyway, hijacks. Show the summer, honestly. I'm just going to call it. It's a number one show on Apple.

I feel like a lot of random people that I just talk to, they're like hijacked rules. Thank you, thank you, sir. Tears in my eyes. But we thought, and we announced on this podcast. Yes, you did. Oh, excuse me. I let you take the con.

I thought you knew what you were doing. I thought you were going to navigate us through the asteroid belt, and you didn't. We're still there. I thought it was six episodes. It's seven. It is a seven-episode show for a seven-hour flight, apparently. Or maybe there will be some extra juice at the end, you know, once they land.

So the experience watching the sixth episode, and I don't know if anyone else felt this, was borderline maddening. Because one thing, this might be just... The episode is called Comply Slowly, by the way. This might be... And we're going to talk about everything up through episode six. This may have been... This may just be a factor of poison TV brain. But whenever there's a finale, season finale, especially,

I start to get Twitchy at the 15 minute mark. Because you're worried that they're not going to resolve everything. I'm keeping track of the ball still in the air. And in the case of this show, it wasn't like, oh, are they not going to figure it out? I was like, oh, these fucks are setting up season two. Now, they still might be doing that. We don't know if they are or they are not.

I feel like the cheap side gang has some legs. For sure. I think there are other, but I thought they were going to keep K-A-29 in the air through season two. I mean, presumably they would need to refuel at some point. Well, I also think that what you're suggesting, which I think is probably likely and doubly so, if it is as successful as it appears to be, that the larger machinations of this group of criminals that can touch everyone and kill everything or vice versa can have other iterations, potentially with other stars in transportation-based crises.

Yes. But I started to get a little bit touchy because I was like, they're just going to do. And then the episode ended, and I was like, that's the cliffhanger for season one. The clue is when they're like, we're still an hour from London. Yes. That was when you knew. So anyway, so I was a little bit sour. I don't know if anyone else got that.

And then there was also on the Apple app, it's like, next episode is next week. My pupils were dilated at that time, so I cannot confirm or deny whether I saw that. Okay, so I was wrong. Let's talk about the show instead of my own. Okay. So I want to talk most of all about the emergent villain of hijack. And again, we are spoiling hijack up through episode six. So, God bless the Internet.

I just needed to check if it's called the Cheapside Gang or the Cheapside Firm and the Internet not only answer that question, but was like the first result is, are Edgar Jansen and John Bailey Brown based on real gangsters? I can't wait to click on this later. This is phenomenal. So you're talking about who are, those are three people, but yet two people. No, Edgar Jansen and John Bailey Brown. Oh, someone's name is John Bailey Brown? Yes, in the show hijack that we're watching.

You paved children to. He hasn't. I don't think John Bailey Brown has had any lines yet. I think Edgar Janssen has been doing all the talking. I would also like to add that I know no one's name. Okay. Do you know Idrisalbis name? Sam Nelson. Uh-huh. Which is 100% not a real name. Like that is such

a ridiculously plain name that I remember. Stuart and Lewis are the brothers. Nope. Now there's just one brother. Didn't know that. And then I don't know who the lady is who keeps being like, he knew what he was doing. I don't even know who you're talking about. I know Daniel is the cop. The lady terrorist.

What are we calling them? Highjackers. Lady hijackers. Well, but the thing is, Chris, after six episodes, they might be victims too. I know. I know. I don't know if you've been watching as closely as I was.

The hit man who killed Stuart and Lewis's father seemed quite morose about that. This gets to the villain problem of hijack. Not a problem. Just a point that I don't know if infrastructurally and institutionally, England as a nation, are responding well to this.

I'm glad we're talking about this. It just seems like two guys in prison have checkmated the entire government and security apparatus. I have real concerns here. If you view this show as social commentary, like as if you're viewing, imagine you're watching this show the same way you watch the films of Ken Loach, for example. And you're like turning the camera on the inequities built into the system. I am very concerned about our special relationship. It's a failing island. Yeah.

Because. just these blokes from prison, to your point, have taken full advantage of the fact that the United Kingdom has, and I'm just going to be, I think I'm a little bit, my numbers might be off here, but I believe they have two government officials. The home secretary and the foreign secretary. Two police, two to three police persons.

Archie, Punjabi, and the other guy. Yes, and the other guy's ride-along mate. Yeah. And that's about it. I saw a more... There's a lot of, like, don't tell the people. PM yet. I saw a more like Kingdom 2-9 is in-row

you know. Dude, there was a more robust deployment of forces briefly in rural Hungary than we have seen on the streets of England. What was the Hungarian airport they were going to? Doesn't matter. It wasn't Budapest. It was somewhere else. And they had fucking special ops lionesses all along the tarmac.

Zoe was just seconds. Absolutely redacting people there. But meanwhile, England has enough time for a fancy Dan to just walk up to, I guess, like the third most powerful person in government and be like, here's a packet of crisps, mate, enjoy. And my demands. And then walks away and then swans around a pub with a corrupt journalist. And then the most important news breaks on Twitter.

And I'm watching that being like, Elon, you had this heater coming of press. It didn't break on X in the show. Presumably. So the sort of gambit seems to be that this cheap side gang run by Edgar and Johnny from right just are like do this and when you're like

I don't want to do that they'll be like well then we'll kill your family that was like when you said I want you to watch a Taylor Sheridan show

and then you said as half of the watch I will watch it yeah it just seems like a like a bullet you can't unfire it just seems like

Johnny and Edgar after a while would get the rep of being like possibly dangerous fellows yeah with their fingers in everywhere. Sex trafficking, drug running, weapons. All over the world. Arms dealing

all over the world from prison. If you are wearing sweatsuits. If you are a surly Scotsman wearing a blue cleaners outfit, you work for them. Yeah. And you have handguns and silencers and you're on call. But of their workforce, how many do you think are doing it under the threat of death? I think the guys posted up in Sam's immaculate bachelor. pad do it for the love of the game. Oh, you think that those guys are true believers? I think those guys are like Dame Lillard. They just love basketball.

And they'll play anywhere. You know what I mean? It doesn't matter where they've asked to be traded. They're definitely hoping to play in Boston. They might end up in Boston if everything works out. I don't have an answer because, again, this is, it's the show's triumph. It is also the thing that in season three or four we might be like, okay. I don't, you really think there's going to, is Sam getting on another plane?

soon? No, my sense is, and again, this is, this is irrelevant to my enjoyment of this season. So you think it's like a hijack, expanded universe of different vehicles and different negotiators? Speed two was on a boat. Actually, this is the key thing. Okay. I'm going to ask Kai this, because you and I, we just have been jaun about this for a while. Kai, what does Sam do for a living? Well, they say at the beginning, he, like, comes in during the, like, merger process and, like,

negotiates. That's probably, like, a bit of a cover. I would say. You think he's, like, a, he's, am I. five. Yeah, something like that. He's too good at fighting. He's too good at fighting.

He is really good at fighting. He is, and he knows a lot about wounds. Yeah. Oh, that's a good point. Yeah. Yeah. And byroes and where to stick them in people's bodies for maximum breathability. Okay.

So, Sam, still a little bit of a mystery, but we've had this villain revealed. And in your opinion, as a hijacker fan, I guess we have to, that's what you call hijacked fans. Hijack Hive. Mm-hmm. Are, were you relieved to find out that this was like a criminal syndicate rather than, like, a terrorist organization. Relieved.

So are we, are you asking me, okay, are you asking me about the woman at the very end? Well, no, we haven't gotten to the twist yet. Okay, sorry. Excuse me. No, I mean, we're spoiling it, so it's fine. I want to get to her and the sleepers on the plane because I think there are more. That's my big thing.

I think the question is more, how do you feel about the, like the reveal here is that, what's the guy's name who's yelling a lot? Stewart. Stewart? Sure. You can tell because other characters will say, Sto it! To him, and he responds, because that's his name.

That's interesting. Okay, I'm going to try to watch the finale with that in mind. I'm glad that you can still pull Talos out of your back pocket where you haven't actually watched Secret Invasion, but we've talked about Hijack for like two and a half hours, and you're like the lad who yells a bunch. Part of my enjoyment of the show is that it doesn't matter. I don't know their names.

It's suspense and vibes. It's Sky vibes. But wait, I guess the question is like, Did you, are you asking, Kai, if she enjoys the rich depth now available to us now that we know that this is being masterminded by someone else in a sweatset? By Edgar and Johnny. I think that introduced a lot of plot holes into the show because the whole time they're like, we don't have Wi-Fi. No one can't get in touch with the ground. Blah, blah, blah.

How are these guys getting in touch with the ground? How are they talking to Edgar? Well, they took all the phones. But then I think they turned the Wi-Fi on briefly. Oh, that's right. Right. And then now they've turned it back on all the way because the pilot was like you have to turn the computers back on. so that I can call

so that she can call Budapest, right? Well, no, that was just the radio. They weren't like, no, the screens came back on. Remember all the kids were like, oh, my God, the screens are back on? But then they turned them back off. That's because they were DMing.

Like, that's how they communicated with Budapest. They slid into. Also, how does Edgar get out of the country now? I mean, I guess the British police are like evidently not. They're fools. Okay. So this takes us to the end of episode six. We're not at the end of that conversation.

But I would, I think to Kai's point, it's important to say that, The show does begin to, like, you lose the thread a little bit when it's not just that the home secretary, again, like the performance that actor is giving just really gives, like, you can trust this guy. Yeah. He just seems like he's the hero in his story. He's serving the home secretary. But, but, like, in a situation like this, despite his years of public service and his position within his majesty's government. If it helps for you, I'll just let you know that frequently in the cabinet of the prime minister.

there's a team of rivals. No, I know that, but this is my home secretary and foreign secretary might be vying for the chance to be the next prime minister. It reminded me of the film Lincoln in so many ways, but that's not my point. My point is as important as it is for him to be in the room. Yeah. I feel like in a moment of there's an airplane hurtling towards the capital city.

With 200 British citizens. I think other people's voices are then welcomed into the conversation, not a politician. They do address that when they're like, where are you? I can't remember what the foreign secretary's name is. It's like Linda. Wow. You know Gaia's name.

In the scroll order. I like the foreign secretary anyway. Wow. But she's like, they're like, why are you at Collingwood? And she's like, because we were already here and like we didn't have time to move. So that's why I think it seems a little bit more fly by night. Yeah, I just feel like, I don't know. You know, we've been through 20 years of a war on terror and things.

I just feel like there might be like some dossiers they could pull. I'm sure. They're a little slower than. Anyway, to Kai's point, she brought up the twist that happens at six, which is essentially Idriselba thinks he's got his handle on how many hijackers there are. He thinks there are three because the younger brother has died. Stewart's brother. Yeah, it's Stewart, the lady, the guy with the beard, the old man.

Right. And then he's like, okay, we can take them. So the first class cabin basically rises up. So what a look for oat milk. Oat Milk is what inspired everyone, right? That's right. They send it all around. And then in the midst of this battle for the plane,

a random woman stands up from her seat, goes into the bathroom, puts her hair into a pilot's ponytail, I guess, opens up her person she's got a cell phone and a gun. She walks out of the bathroom, shoots our beloved pilot in the head, not first mate Kovacs, though, hopefully. And shoots the pilot in the head

and walks into the cockpit and closes the door. So to Kai's point, I think that they have always had a backup pilot on the flight that she has been in contact with Edgar and Johnny and that she will now be the person who is like you get to have the 200 people back or whatever but we get Edgar and Johnny on this plane and we fly to parts on note.

Also, my favorite character on the show is Stuart. It's been that way for two, three minutes now. And I think that they are pawns of the larger operation. There's always been some bail safes built in and some surprises. I was interested in the woman standing up because one thing that I haven't been able to get over is in the pilot, not the new pilot, but the first episode of the series,

there's a very weighted moment when Sam argues to let someone on the plane and it's that businessman with a beard. We have gotten shots of him and he's done nothing. He put a bag very clearly up above. Is that the bag that she took? I believe. No, no, no, that's where they first get the gun.

Oh, right. Okay. Out of that bag. He's obviously, then he's also stressed. That was the, his bag was the one that the woman let through security, right? Yes. And things didn't go great for her. No, she paid for it with her life.

Yes. So I'm waiting for that shoe to drop as well. There's also the guy who's done time in prison. Yeah, who has the drawings on his neck and face. Yeah. There is a couple of other people. There's the Egyptian security expert Who thought he understood whether it was blanks or real bullets

So we've got a couple of wild cards on the plane There's the mom who does not have an inside voice No You know Katie There are just a couple Or Katie's her daughter And she's always like Katie There's a couple things like

When the woman, the woman you're talking about Who is like the secret pilot gets up to go to the bathroom I was like why isn't everyone doing that all the time It did seem like all of a sudden it was pandemonium It was just like finally I get to go get some corn People have been really chill for four hours of this hijacking. I would be so hangary. Yes, but also like the bathroom line would be considerable.

Like, I feel like we're not really getting into the nitty-gritty of it. I mean, I'm happy to do it right now. I think that the lack of food service on the plane is pretty crazy. I also think it would have opiate for the masses, you know? Just giving peanuts. Yeah. And then someone has a devastating peanut allergy, and it's a whole other, then you're really landing in Budapest.

I think... That would be amazing if it's like... we have to land to land even fast. This man is having a terrible reaction.

Stuart is anaplectic shock. To a bag of planters. How do you feel? Okay, so let's think about this two ways.

Like, I think there's one way to talk about the show and we'll continue to talk about it next week about why it's successful.

Which is as if it's reality deeply. Yeah, nitpick it to death. One is why it's successful. The other is I think it was,

how do you feel about this as a star vehicle for Idraselbo? and how do you feel about the legend of Sam Nelson? I feel like this is like phenomenal shit from him. Yeah. I honestly do still think that like he being like just 20% more capable that everybody on the plane but still having some like fallibility

is like right in the Harrison Ford zone. Like the zoo I would want to be in charge of this situation. But at the same time I could also see some people being like, you fuck this up, you fuck that up. The almost anonymity of the rest of the plane is actually why, I think this show is doing so well, because I think people are doing what we just did for the last 20 minutes and putting themselves into the plane. Yes.

And they're starting to be like, I would be hungry or I would pee or I would negotiate or I would The first two, yes, the third, no. Keep listing things. I would negotiate. You'd be like, guys, no one wants to go to jail tonight. And then someone to point out, they've hijacked an international airplane. They are definitely going to jail tonight. And then you would sit back down?

Yes. Right. I also think the Idris Elba part of it is, I can't say that I've watched all of the movies he's made over the last 10 years. Wasn't there one where he fought a lion recently? That recently came out. In fact, that was at one point seemingly the only film

that was ever going to come out again because it was the trailer before every single other movie. One of the great things about this, and also maybe just about him settling into the age that he is, is that what made him so special as Stringer Bell was, yes, his incredible physical appearance, his looks, his charisma. but also that he's always projecting that he's thinking about everything

and that he's put upon. Like the weight of shit is on him. That's just his demeanor. You know, and I think that when people were saying that he's going to be bond, like those elements are not, the thinking, yes, but like the sort of the burden of it is not really bond to me.

And so him running to this role and then everyone's seeing him, they're like, oh, he is this Harrison Ford, Liam Neeson, Charles Bronson type figure. is awesome. I think it was a really well-chosen role for him for the next 20 years of his career.

Here's what I understand. These guys were in prison. Oh, we're back. So you are fixated on this. What are they called the cheap seats? The cheap side firm. Which is often what they call gangs. You love a firm.

Yeah. And they are in prison, they think, because Stuart and Lewis's dad grasped on them. RIP Elaine. Oh, by the way, low-key also, like, thing about British shows is like, we need someone to play a part for five minutes. We call Ruth Sheen,

Legend of Mike Lee movies, just to play that part. Yeah. That's cool. That was great. She's like, he didn't cross. And neither did die. And then she walks in the traffic. It's really sad. She didn't cross because she attempted to cross the street. The grass is like what they call narcing in the UK. Is that what people were saying at SoFi last night with your other mates watching football? I just wonder whether or not there was a less ostentatious way of getting out of prison. That's my note. That's all I would ask. It doesn't seem like the British government is putting up much of

a fight. They got them a range rover immediately. Yes. A cell phone? charged. I don't really know why if the entire thing is predicated on not being followed. The British government was like, we better follow these guys. But not we better follow them. The only policemen in London has to follow.

We have no other way of doing this. And you watch most contemporary spy shows or movies and it's like they, and I know that England is essentially a surveillance state, but they seem to be very slow on getting a drone involved, and the drone seems pretty glitchy when they do get it. So why do they need to have, I think the problem is the government Google Maps that they have has not been upgraded to include the new patch that covers country lanes and gates. You know, it's just the main thoroughfares,

thanks, love. You know, like nobody was, and in my impression of England, it's almost entirely country lanes once you leave London. Yeah. So that, does seem like an oversight to me. I love it. I can't wait to see the finale next week. Any final notes? Just big picture. I really like the show. It's really interesting for Apple TV, joining the ranks of the other streaming services as they realize that it might be good to make programming that large swaths of people might want to watch, particularly at a moment. Had you're the best. No, but it's true. No, you just have, you see the whole field. But it's what, like, it's what all, like, Amazon is always being, you know, you know,

know, this isn't, we've talked about this, I've heard it on the town, I've read it and articles, like, it always seemed a little bit schizoid because it's like, we're going to make the English and fleabag, but the shows that people watch on our service are the boys and Jack Ryan and Reacher. Yeah. Paramount has no qualms. They're like, we're making Star Trek and we're making Taylor Sheridan. Violence pornography. Violent pornography. But especially at this moment when A, these services can't just be larks for sharehold like they need to show profit, but also everyone, including Bob Eiger, in some of the comments he's been making recently that were less inflammatory, he was like, I don't think broadcast television

is core to our business anymore. If we are admitting, and the strike is going to go. How many comments has he made? Has he, like, weighed in on the Otani trade market? He makes a lot of comments. He's like, I think Moreno should hold on to him. You never know. Well, no, he'd be like, well, Arty is a passionate guy and sports ownership. No, but like, the strikes are hastening the demise of a broadcast television and broadcast television is where still millions of people watch their shows

and those, to give those people a reason to pay for streaming services, you're going to have to give them shows like that. I'll put it this way. So Apple getting in in that marketplace is smart for them. And particularly, this is a very, this just feels like a very smart play because it is not more Jack Ryan. It's It's British. They have, you know, it has a different perspective on it.

It's a global show. And yet it is deeply, deeply satisfying it in the way only this type of mid stuff can be. I noticed that you and I are big fans of the boys. I noticed that there is a spinoff show coming called Gen V, which is basically like a high school for, for, what do they call it? Soups. Yeah, the Vought Industries. Yeah.

And I'm sure it has every possibility of being good. I haven't seen it. I just would note that... to take our conversation full circle from the Barbenheimer weekend that we've all lived through. And the idea that Mattel is just going to go do a bunch of this stuff. It was a little disappointing to see Gen V instead of, what did we learn from the boys that the boys did well that we could apply to other stuff that we want to do? Rather than just make more of the same thing, could we have another thing that's also got the sort of cultural footprint of the boys?

And I do think Apple isn't like, let's make seven Ted lassoes or let's make, I mean, they very well may, but let's make a continuing adventures of Richmond FC even after Ted is, is no longer the manager or whatever. And they seem to be like, there's some chemistry to the like, to your point, morning show season three is coming back, right? The trailer aired and it was like, here's all the stuff you like about the morning show and now you put John Hamm in it. You know, and it was like, you know what? Probably going to watch that. Yeah. You know, and I think that they've had success with Silo, with Blackbird, with hijack, where it's just like, sometimes it's not that complicated. Mm-hmm.

Yes, I think that's right. And I think that I'm interested in their slate. Like, there remains a lane to be, I think this is also the lane they want to be in. I think ultimately they think the Apple brand is, you know, mildly positive for everyone. Yeah. Right. And so programming more down the middle does make sense for them. Upwardly mobile drama and comedy. I mean, I imagine in episode seven it will be downwardly mobile as the plane makes its final. Who knows? We don't know.

Maybe they're going to do like a reverse like halo jump into the plane from the, I wouldn't put anything past Edgar and Johnny. Remember executive decision? Yes, I do. Remember executive decision? Didn't like one plane go up against the other plane? Kurt Russell came out of the one plane into the other plane, but he didn't stay for long. Sorry. Right? movie was cool. Next week, probably talk about Full Circle and Hijack, Olafantapalooza, and then

we're going to end next Thursday. We'll do Hijack's season finale. And is winning time next week? It's soon, yeah. I'm excited for that. But you're a huge Celtics fan. Well, when Dame inevitably joins them, I will be locked in. And then for the rest of the summer,

admin-wise, I think we'll do a mailbag episode soon. Yeah. We have some Res dogs to hit. Oh, that's coming very soon. But Andy and I are both going to be traveling. So we'll see. I'm going to Dubai. You're going to retrace the steps of Kingdom 29.

I'm just a, I'm a passionate fan. And you're going to thoroughly check all the systems that maybe failed. Yeah. I'm going to thoroughly check a lot of bags with some surprises in them. You're going to try and be the last person to walk on to an international flight? Yep. Yep. It's still the weirdest thing.

I still want to know why Sam was walking. so slowly. Why didn't want to get back on the plane? Maybe he knew what was going to happen? No, he's coming to see his... Well, why was he slow rolling it? Why was he almost like, she was like, are you coming? And he was like, yeah, I guess so. I feel like it's just because his ex-wife is texting him, don't get on the plane. I don't want to see you. So I feel like it was more of like a emotional... He's got Daniel. He's got Daniel in his home. Listening to vinyl. What a, yeah. What a life. That is tough.

Okay. Thanks to you. you, Andy. Good job today. Thanks to you. Thanks to you. Thanks to Kyya for stepping in and helping us. And also, you know, just prayers up for Stewart. It's been a bad day for him, his family. Right? Last man standing. I mean, he lands.

He's been so memorable. What do you think that, I know you don't understand money lines, but what do you think the odds are that Stewart makes it through the finale? Well, I'm scathed. I mean, by the way, one thing we didn't, What was Stewart's brother's name? When Stewart finds out his mom's dead, don't you think he's going to be like, all bets are off now? What is Stewart's brother's name?

Who's lying in the back? Lewis. Lewis is how old, do you think? He's his younger brother. 25. Right. Do a lot of, Kaya, sorry, last thing. I know we're ending.

But, like, Kaya, do a lot of 25-year-olds that you know their cell phone home screens a picture of their mom? No. I would say no. Is that a red flag for people of your generation? Just asking. I think that's a general. vendor specific red flag. Okay.

Yeah. So, yeah. So clearly they love their mom. Yeah. Their mom. I'm surprised he doesn't have like, you know, the West Ham logo as his screensaver. Yeah. And then also like, and then if you unlock your screen server.

Unlock your phone. Then maybe it's a picture, it's a picture of Lewis's mom. It's Roos Sheen, one of my favorite British actresses. I'm saying he could have, look, I don't want to criticize the dead. I think Stuart, I think Stuart is not, not with us. I think he's with us for. You don't think he's on hijack season two? I think Stewart is with us for a good time, not a long time.

Okay. Thanks to Andy, thanks to Kai for producing. I'm really excited for the finale of the show. We'll be back on Monday.