The Watch - What Would It Take to Love 'Westworld' and Other Mailbag Questions, Plus News From Andy | The Watch (Ep. 243)

Episode Date: April 12, 2018

The Ringer’s Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald share some exciting news before opening up the mailbag to answer your questions, on topics ranging from 'Westworld' to the Marvel Cinematic Universe to the TV Championship Belt. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey guys, today's episode of The Watch is brought to you by Universal Orlando Halloween Horror Nights. Universal Orlando's Halloween Horror Nights brings together stories from the world's most notorious creators of horror. Select night September 14th through November 3rd in Universal Studios, Florida. You will face terrifying haunted houses, including Netflix's stranger things, and more. Plus, experience sinister scare zones, outrageous live shows, and some exhilarating Universal Studios attractions. Learn more at Orlando. Halloween Horror Nights.com. Hey guys, happy Thursday.

Welcome to a re-up edition of The Watch. A couple headlines to get through before we get to today's show. Today's show is a mailbag with me and Chris. Thank you so much for all the great questions you submitted on Twitter and on our popping Facebook group. They mean a lot to us. They're really insightful and they're a lot of fun for us to answer. So we went through a lot of those.

Chris is, as you may have guessed, not in the studio today. He is still in Philadelphia where he has been serving as Markell Fultz's life coach. that's working out well for him. He will be back next week. Big week of shows for us. We are going to be getting right back into Killing Eve.

We're going to catch up with trust. Guys, I watch season three of Better Call Saul, so I'm ready to talk about it. I don't know if anybody else is. Also, on Monday, we are going to discuss some news that broke today Thursday. USA announced its new slate of pilots,

and there is a show there that is going to be of special interest to watch fans, treadstone. It is the Jason Bourne without Jason Bourne show, and we're very excited about it. also I'm excited that my show Breyer Patch executive produced by Sam Smail was also announced that is a pilot for real I'm getting to make and I couldn't be more excited about it. I will be happy to answer questions about it such as I can on Monday and I'm sure Chris has a lot

of thoughts about the pickup basketball scenes that I am hastily cramming into the already written script. Also one more heads up and bit of news on Thursday we are going to be with you for the next edition of the Double Down Book Club. That means you have one more week to read a modern masterpiece, The Last Good Kiss by James Crumley. We're going to have a special guest in the studio to talk about it with us. This is one of our favorite books. Cannot wait to have the discussion, so please get on it if you haven't already. The Last Good Kiss by James Crumley. That's all I got for you. Let's get into today's episode of The Watch. I ain't supports to have to clear the room. Stand up and walk now.

Hello, and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I'm Netter at TheRinger.com. joining me in the studio with a bag of mail over his shoulder like Santa Claus. It's Ane Greenwald! Big Day for us, buddy. We're recording back in time. I look at you, I think, Santa Claus. Is that what you think? Yeah, so we're recording this on Thursday for next Thursday. So you're here, no, let me do it the back way.

You're hearing this on a Thursday. Yeah, we recorded this a week ago. A week ago. So who knows what might have changed in the world? I hope Scott Pruitt is still having a steady hand at the EPA. God, real estate's so tough in Washington. Are you showing me something here? Yeah. Is this a new Sicario poster?

Yeah, live on air. I'm showing Chris the new Sicario Day of the Soldado poster. The roses really give it a nice. It's a softer thing because they want to appeal to, you know. Ladies. Yeah, to the ladies. Guys, today is a mailbag episode. We really, really love getting these questions and comments and messages from you.

The Facebook page has been phenomenal. That's Facebook.com slash the watchpod. You can join the group there and get in on the conversation. The conversation doesn't even always have to be about. the pod stuff. I mean, people just kind of have lists going and they're talking about stuff they recommend if you like this. So it's a really fun community. And can I say, I may have

dipped in just a glance because I was feeling a little self-conscious about the temperature. You're weird about this. You should just rock it. I love to jump in and just be like, yeah. Regarding a recent Steven Spielberg film. Oh, you were worried that the ready player one heads were going to come for you? Baransky Hype had my back. I really appreciated

that. That's right. I really appreciate it. I felt very, very welcome in the Facebook group dedicated to our fandom. So the following questions come from our Facebook and Twitter pages. Be sure to follow us at the watchpod, Facebook.com slash the watchpod. And be careful of that at the watchpod, though, producer Zach Mack will clap back at you. Yeah, I noticed that Zach gets a little feisty. Zach gets a little, he mixes it up on Twitter. Zach has like, you know, he's got that special nighttime tea. He does. He just logs in. Andy, let's get started.

You've got mail. So this one comes from Ernie. Zach has marked this high priority. Is this Ernie Klein, author of Ready Player 1? No. ER and Y. Ernie wants to know story-wise. Yeah. What would it take for you to be really into Westworld this season?

And let me just say, you are on the record, duly noted, everybody knows you're not a fan. Is there, like, sincerely anything that you would be curious about from this season? And keep in mind, it's Tandy Newton. It's Tandy Newton. Yeah. I was right about that. No, I was right about that. No, I told you was Tandy Newton.

Did I say Thandi? Yeah, man. Fuck. I think Alexa Fogle stepping in to regulate on that one. What would it take for you to be really into Westworld this season? I would like to find out once and for all. I can tell this is not a sincere answer. What the status of Laura Palmer is.

You know, we know that she died in the original series. My guy, come on. Okay, I'm sorry. For real, for real? Yeah. Give me a human being character with some sort of emotional stakes or a journey. What I mean by this is... Some Jimmy Simpson Chronicles.

Oh, Jesus. Listen. Ostensibly, that's what the first season was. But because the show was a closed loop, it was showing us something to... It created the Jimmy Simpson backstory to solve a problem of Ed Harris' character. I did not really believe in...

I was not at all interested in his development, because, again, we don't really know who he is, other than he is a convenient white hat who literally puts on a black hat at the end of the season to become the character we've already seen. If he is the only... And stop me on this. Is he the only prominent human character in the park at the beginning of the second season?

I don't know. Because everyone else is either a robot or was killed. I think that there was a couple of those security guards, like the Hemsworth Kid. What was a Hemsworth, bro? And what was Shannon? Oh, we never knew what happened to her either. Shannon Woodward, is that the actress's name? I think that there was a couple of security guards that were out about and about.

We don't really know if Shannon Woodward's coming back. There was the Hemsworth kid who is definitely in the trailers. I've never felt the need to have. my humanity represented in Westworld. That's not really what's interesting to me about it. Yours or any humanity, though. I don't care. But the show is, it claims to be about what it means to be human.

And yet it does not seem to be able to establish it has any firsthand knowledge of what it means to be human. Ernie, you didn't ask me, but for me, story-wise, let's get some samurai going. You were going to say it. Ah, what an easy mark. Ernie also asks, at what point, if any, do you think you'll be completely and entirely checked out on the MCU?

Now, this is an interesting question. Mm-hmm. we may at times, as might anyone, give sort of the vibe that this is a sort of assigned, it's a signed reading. Like, we don't really like these movies. It's just if they weren't so culturally prevalent, we would never talk about them,

that they're kind of just inane. I have definitely gone through that period of time with these movies. I've gone through that phase with them. I would say around Ultron, I was just like I can't really rock with these. But I have to say, that takes aside on which ones are better or worse or whether I completely was over my head over heels for them,

that we've been on a nice little run with these movies, that especially with Thor Ragnarok and Black Panther, they're very entertaining. So I don't find it to be too laborious to talk about them. And Spider-Man, right, exactly. And I should use this to directly respond to some comments I've got in the past. I watched, I actually did finish Guardians of the Galaxy, volume two. Better, not on a plane.

And after the noisy opening sequence, which is just, I mostly remembered on the plane as Dave Batista just bellowing in my ears. Yeah. I kind of like the movie. And the reason I like the movie was, I think, maybe in a small part, why it's hard for me to bail on this shared collective universe. Why can't you quit them? In many ways, that was as personal.

a movie as you're going to see in a $200 million tent pole. I mean, it was very bizarre and very sort of sloppy emotionally, but very funny. And that's James Gunn, man. That was a James Gunn movie. Sure. In the same way that, you know, difficult to pick out CGI fights

aside, Black Panther was a Ryan Coogler movie. They figured out a way to make these both macro and micro, to make them financially viable and on some level, obviously not ideal for everyone, but on some level, artistically viable. And I would say also that if Infinity War does mark

the end of a certain era of these films, I am curious what's next, not just to see Brie Larson in a space suit. Does you get them? Stones though. The stones aren't what they are. But you guys can't see the stones aren't what they are. The whole thing is like, look at... I don't care about...

Look at the flick of the wrist. Was that great to look at wrist? Remember that wrist song? Yeah, that's a good song. Is that in the new trailer? That song? No, it's not. Do you think Berlin? The new trailer is like Captain America. almost getting punched in the face by Josh

Brolin and it being like, this guy's dying. And then guess what Brolin does? He punches him all the way to Broadway. He punches Henry Cavill's mustache onto his face. He punches some sense back into him so he gets back together with Jenny Slate. All, okay, jam session. Here is, my other thought is this.

To be a fan of the Marvel Universe in comics, which I was and kind of am for a very long time, part of the fandom is to see how many ways they can develop this in new iterations and new versions of these characters, new takes on the characters to mimic the times or the tastes of whatever era. And it has been interesting in the last 15 years.

Marvel's kind of in the toilet in a lot of ways right now, comic-wise, publishing. But the previous 10, 15 years, when basically they rediscovered a lot of what made these characters great and previously obscure characters like Captain Marvel, like Hawkeye Vision, people who have characters who have just been completely reimagined in exciting ways, or recast. I mean, there are two Hawkeyes. in the Marvel Comics universe, which is maybe one of the reasons

why the comics are selling. No Hawkeyes in the movie universe, yeah. Exactly. If they reach a point where they can, and I think they're trying to test the waters, recast, reimagined these characters, and continue to sort of evolve. That's interesting to me, both creatively

and as someone who watches the business. Yeah, I don't want to believe it, but by that same token, I'm curious to see whether or not there's any behind the camera changeover. So you've got the Russo brothers. You'd have to imagine that after the Avengers that they're probably...

After the next Avengers. After the next Avengers, which I think they've already shot, right? Or in wrapping up. That they would move on to other things. There have been rumors about Kevin Feigy moving on from MCU, but I don't know if that, I don't know why he would do that. But the question is, is that can they continue to fill backfill talent behind the camera the way they have over the last few years by finding interesting filmmakers to give a, you know,

a twist to Dr. Strange or whatever? If the Josh Trank and Colin Trevereaux stories were cautionary tales to would-be Wunderkin directors, Ryan Coogler's success has to outweigh that in people's minds. Absolutely. If you have the opportunity to navigate those very, very choppy corporate waters, I mean, why wouldn't you reach for the biggest golden ring of all? Competent-ish asks, what show would you have wanted to be in the writer's room for or at the very least ordered lunch with?

Now, I have an obvious one and an obscure one. What do you have? My answer is the same answer. It's The Wire Season 3. It is the Murderer's Row of Murderer's Riders. David Simon, Ed Burns, Richard Price, George Pelicanos, Joy Lesko, Rafael Averis, of a notoriously feisty writer's room.

Yeah. Very competitive. Yep. A lot of machismo in that room. But the idea, I think that there was one point that Pelaconos, Burns, Simon, and Price were like, and Dennis Lahane. And Dennis Lahane were often like some cabins.

somewhere breaking down season three to be a fly on the wall. It would have been amazing. Yeah, I mean, I think in our conception of what could be great about a writer's room, I mean, just seeing writers who we admire so much individually trying to bring their talents together and how that would work and how that wouldn't work. This is not an example of a room that we would want to be contributors in because that is terrifying, but just to be around it and see how each of their minds work distinctly and in tandem would be incredible.

Gonna put you on the spot. Yeah. Somebody just hears this. They're like, maybe I should read some of their books. Best George Pelacanos book. What we did in the book club.

I would say sweet forever. I would say if you're going to look for a retroprice book read Lush Life for Clockers. Yeah, although I will always ride for a non-crime book by him called Ladies' Man.

There you go. I mean, you can't go wrong with his trip price. And then for Dennis Lahane, what are you going to need to go? For Dennis Lahane, I think. Drink before the war?

I mean, if you want his, the Gone Baby Gone series, which is now going to be a TV series for Fox apparently. The Kenzie Janara books. That starts with a drink

before the war. That is a great crime novel. He's evolved in his own writing. He's best probably known still for Mystic River. For Mystic River. I really, really, really, I know it maybe was tarnished for some

by the Affleck of it all, but Live by Night is a great gangster book. I actually would also throw out, and this is for maybe more Golden Age-centric fans, Breaking Bad, because we champion and we celebrate a lot of shows

from the last 15, 20 years. Not all of those shows, no show runs smoothly all the time, but not all of them were roses and backpats behind the scenes either. Sure. I don't actually know the day to day of Breaking Bad, but from what I can gather, for what I've heard, from what these writers have said, and then from this sheer consistency and lack of turnover,

that seems like an incredibly healthy working environment. And they produce something so clean and entertaining. They're absolutely nice about each other, yeah. They still are, right. And so Vince Gilligan, unlike a lot of the difficult men, quote intended, who ran a lot of these great shows, I mean, it seems to be just a nice guy. And it matters in the scheme of things that,

Asimandias, you know, the greatest, many would argue the greatest episode of Breaking Bad. And, you know, one of the great episodes of this century was written by Moira Wally Beckett, who was on staff for many years as a producing writer. I'm sure Vince Gilligan had input in the episode. I'm sure all of the other people in the room did, but he always made sure the writer who was assigned the episode got credit for it.

And I think that to see that work and also create something great is kind of inspiring. Robert Brathian asks, I would love to hear Chris Ryan elaborate on his hashtag no beast views. Does this apply only to anthropomorphic creatures just computer generated or animated to? I have so many questions. I'll give you the broad strokes. I don't really believe entirely in this, like, Freudian idea that childhood is like what makes you and then anything that happens.

That's where everything is formed. But I will say this. When I was young Chris for sure, like really young Chris, I saw this movie called Project X with Matthew Broderick. Young Helen Hunt. Which involves a lot of like the, I don't remember, but it's like the military or somebody is experimenting on apes. And Matthew Broderick is like friends with this ape

and he's getting, you know, science experiments. For the young kids out there, it's like Rampage, basically. It is like Rampage, except nothing happens. That, Gorilla's in the Mist, never liked Bambi, always had an aversion to seeing, like having to consider whether or not animals have souls. I don't know if that's...

I feel like you're giving away more than you realize, but go on, go on. No, I guess what I'm saying is that beasts in peril, beasts with souls, beasts with tragic backstories, anything that like, that whole mix, I find incredibly manipulative. Did you see when you were a kid,

did you see the movie Greystroke the legend of Tarzan. Of course. With, was it Christopher Lambert? Yeah. And Andy McDowell getting dubbed as Jane.

This is a like classy Tarzan movie. I saw, yeah, you completely saw that in the theater. Me too. It was written by Robert Town, but then he took his name off it. Yeah. Degraded as Ph. Varsak.

Anyway, this was an era before like common sense reviews or the internet and my parents probably were like, oh, Tarzan. Yeah, right. My dad was probably like,

I remember Johnny Weissmuller as Tarzan or whatever and it took me to, to this movie. Classic Mr. Greenwald. Yo, the monkeys of this movie tear shit up. Yeah. I am super traumatized by that movie.

This is why I'm not going to try and see Lean on Pete. You know what I mean? Like, I just can't deal with an... Like, there's part of me that's very sympathetic to the plate of animals. I thought you couldn't see it to you couldn't do. And then there's another part of me that's like all the like beasts

where it's like you just don't understand this monster is so complicated. I'm just like just that, take that, take all that insight. into this thing psyche and apply it to human beings. Like, let's get more dramas about humans. Word. So you psyched about samurai world?

Yes, I am. By the way, hypocrite. I'm not sure if that made any sense. Ultimately, it's a taste thing, I guess. I thought you weren't going to see Lean on Pete because the thought of Chloe Seveny playing a non-New Yorker was just awful to you. No, because if you've ever seen Bloodline,

you know that Chloe Seventy can play any region. Great call. We're going to take a quick break for him, of course. has a passport. We're going to take a quick break to hear from our sponsors, and we'll be right back. Today's episode of The Watch is brought to you by Green Chef. Feel like the star of your own cooking show with Green Chef meal kits.

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$50 costs more than most meals. That's great. That's greenchef.org slash W-A-T-C-H for $50 off. Do it. Support for today's episode of the watch also comes from Microsoft Teams. Microsoft Teams is your hub for teamwork in Office 365. With so much to look after, wouldn't it be great if there was just one place to look? Teams is that single workspace

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Andy, we are back. We're still doing mailbag today on the watch. And Derek Ingram asks, with the Super Bowl victory of Philadelphia Eagles, the emergence of Ben Simmons, and now the Villanova national title, Philadelphia is currently having a moment. What reboot of a Philly set show would be the biggest network heat check to capture some of this positive momentum, Philly, starring Kim Delaney,

hack, starring David Morris, or 30 something. The 30-something shout is outstanding. Yes. I would say that even all of these

just pale in comparison to what has already happened and what I wonder we could trace the phyllisans too, which is creed. Yes, thank you for that. That's all you got? I thought you were going to jump in

and say something about 30-something or creed or Creed 2. I just like that you just mic drops by saying creed. I agree. I think that that was a vision, a respectful and positive yet scrappy vision of a city that we love very much. I, wait, you know that the Eagles won the Super Bowl, right? Like that's, was that canon on this podcast?

Yeah. Okay, good. I'm just checking. Yeah. Because that's the one where Tom Brady dropped a pass. Oh, that one? Was that one in Chris Longstrip-Sack, that punk? Yeah, I remember that.

I mean, what would be the reboot? I guess to do the positive reboot, I guess they're suggesting that we would sort of, even though I think it's still going, you would shut down it's always sunny in Philadelphia and reimagine it as kind of this is us. Yeah. Like, except everyone's just hugs at the end instead of doing the things they do

and it's always sunny in Philadelphia. It's, this is, I appreciate the sincerity of this question and that's why we're struggling with it because it's so, even though we don't live there, this inability to sort of... Have they done chop chef Philly? No, I wish they would.

But this inability to sort of see the city as this beacon of positivity, it's just, it's enough. I'm not getting my hopes up. I'm not getting carried away. Have you watched Gabe Kapler manage a baseball team? That's true. That's a real nice bring you down to earth moment. Chris Peck asks, I'm someone who gets moved to tears easily by profound TV or movies,

and I don't know how some sense of your tear ducks are, but when was the last time either of you were compelled to cry at something on screen? Very easy answer, Chris, Lady Bird. Oh, yeah, Lady Bird got me going. Are you a crier, generally? Very specific things. Animals, clearly. Animals in distress.

Matthew Broderick holding hands with animals. There's, what's the, it's Jason Katham stuff, man. It's the, I mean, nothing brought me to my knees like Friday Lights. I'm trying to think of other stuff. I mean, want to have a catchdad field of dreams. I'm pretty, I'm pretty susceptible to the very sentimental shit, man. I got to tell you. I don't watch this as us, but I can be got.

Hashtag Datington for a moment. Like, this is just where. I live all the time now. Right. I basically can't take a car trip without listening to the Hamilton soundtrack. And so that almost every song, I have to start just like,

regulated. But isn't it the one where they're walking through like the graveyard or whatever? What happens to that one? Hamilton the musical, it's about Alexander Hamilton. I'm not talking about the Blumhouse. Isn't there a one where they die?

They're like, we're going to have our coffins here. We're going to have our gravestones together. Did you see like an off-brand Hamilton? Like, so. Like some guy at Port Authority. Didn't she see Hamilton on 63rd and 2nd Avenue? Like in Port Authority's like, I got Hamilton in my locker here. This is, we're going to have our graves here.

2 for 5 Hamilton, yeah. Well, no, the very end where it's just like, spoiler alert, he dies in a duel. And Eliza has this whole song about like what she does in the 50 years she has left. And Washington's like, she tells my story, you know, and then I die. I cannot handle that. But look, Paddington, too, got me misty. Like, these movies that are aimed specifically at the tenderest parts of me and my kind get me all the time.

But there were also, it can be surprising as well because there were definitely moments in, let's say, the leftovers at the end of last year. Yeah. Twin Peaks to the Return where different kinds of crying. There's, there's, you know, manipulative crying like this is us. And I don't even mean that as a ding, but it's seriously, Ketam shows are built, structured brilliantly. Yeah, the weekly cry. You get that part of you. But then there are other things that are so beautiful or surprising or sort of sidest wipe you,

sort of like Chris Long did to Tom Brady in a pivotal moment of the Super Bowl, where you're just not expecting it and it gets you. And that's what you watch for, man. That's why you watch. I'm easy to get. I'm easy to target. I think, you know, I would say end of arrival. Really, like, just busted me up.

You know, there's just stuff out there. What was the last time you just stared into a fire like Ilio at the end of Call Me by your name and just let it go? Like in it because it's disturbing or because... No, you had that kind of... Oh, Lady Bird. Lady Bird, I had to, like, gather myself for a second. All right, Gabe Blumen asks, just a quick question,

I'd be interested in Greenwald Spielberg top five. So this is from... Did you do one on the other podcast? Yeah, when I was on The Big Picture with Sean Fantasy? Sean Fantasy from the Ringer. Yeah. What was your top five? I did not listen yet.

You ready? I'd like to know. Okay. Jaws? We're going one to five or five to one? One to five. We don't have to count down. I'm not pulling any punches with you, Greenwald. I appreciate that.

Number one is Jaws. Interesting. Number two is Raiders The Lost Ark. Number three is Empire of the Sun. Wow, that was going to be my joke. I was just going to come out

with some fire Empire of the Sun takes. I saw that in the theater. I did not understand that movie. Number four is saving prior I and number five is Jurassic Park. Jurassic Park is a good choice. I should probably have that on my list. My list was a little more

like what movies do I want to watch again and again. Okay. I think that by nature unfairly discounted close encounters of the third kind, unfairly discounted Jaws. I agree with the Empire of the Sun. In my hazy memory of it was pretty impressive. Jurassic Park, I don't really want to watch again, but it was huge for me.

I watch Jurassic Park once a year. Do you really? Yeah, I watch Jaws once a year. How does Jurassic Park still work for you? Like absolute gangbusters. Really? Yeah, when the fucking Bronosaurus sneezes on them. What about the Wayne Knight in the rain part?

It's a tough beat for him. You know, my man had the, the, the, shaving cream can he had all the eggs talk about a surprisingly great decade for Wayne Night

at a really good run All his seeds set up for life off Seinfeld and Jurassic I mean that's a good look Also don't sleep on

Third Rock from the Sun wasn't he just lamping on that show too sometimes? Yeah number one Raiders because it's basically perfect

but you know what honestly though this is so hard Chris being asked to make a list of something in a pop cultural realm. I love Last Crusade. Last Crusade is the one that I think I underrated the most of my list,

which in reality, like I would watch. If you were like Last Crusades on, I'd be like, let's just jam this out right now. I think, honestly, if I'm being honest, which I should be, I don't want to put two Indiana Jones movies on the list, but Last Crusade would maybe even be number two because I love it so much. No problem.

Munich. Are you serious? Yes. Really? I would watch Munich again and again, except for the weird sex scene. But everything else. I love that movie.

That's such a weird movie to love. Can I be clear with you about something? Yeah. For all the damage Gabe Kapler is doing to my brand, Munich helps. That's all I'm saying. My religious identity brand. This has been a strange podcast. I'm just saying.

Okay, you know another one that I just love and I think that is underrated? Catch me if you can. Oh, it's delightful. I think that it is... Top three Leo performances? Yes, and I think it is effervescent. And because of that, it's easily discounted. in the Jurassic Park slot, I have E.T.

Again, I don't really want to watch that movie again, but I saw that in the theater, and it basically helped define what I thought of as movies and did that for an entire generation. So I felt like it had to be there. Number five, clearly falling off since I've crammed three more in. That other, by the way, 2002, Peek Spielberg. Catch me if you can, and Minority Report.

So you just named a ton of Spielberg movies. Okay, on the list that I made seriously before sitting down with you and second guessing myself, Raiders, Munich, Catch Me if you can, ET Minority Report. That's a good list. I like that and it's got some variety. Ben Ross asks, what else besides TV, music, movies,

and books is interesting to you guys these days. Now, Ben is implying other pods, art, other mediums he doesn't know about. Most of my time I would have to say outside of that realm is dedicated to sports or my interpersonal relationships. Which are suffering.

I just want to be the, the first to tell you as a representative of that part of your life. I guess, I mean, I could name some artists that I've seen their work recently that I really liked.

You see Jasper Johns at the Brod? I saw, well, I would recommend any living human being to go see the Carrie James Marshall retrospective if you can see it. Yeah. That was one of the, like,

take my breath away moments of the last five years for me. Wow. Yeah. You know what? I'm just kind of a chocolate alcoholic, but for politics. You know, I just love reading about... You're being sarcastic.

Current events. I think they fill me with joy. Just you love... You love reading Maggie Haberman's Twitter feed and feeling super informed. I do. Like, almost to a fault. Like, just a little bit too informed. You know, I like food and wine, man. That's good. That's good stuff. I like reading about food. I like eating food, cooking food, watching shows about it. I really do enjoy those things. and yeah, wish we could find a way

to fold that into the show. Chase Branch asks, why do I, I feel like I'm having a hard time with pretty easy words these days. Chase Branch asks, if you could only have Netflix or HBO, which one are you picking? Now, Chase, I think I see where you're going with this,

but this is actually a really fun hypothetical. So whether it's like you only have 15 bucks a month to spend on one or the other, or you, I prefer the desert, Island test here, which is you are going to a desert island and you can only have HBO or Netflix as your primary entertainment source while you're there. Which one would you take? Personally, I've got to go Netflix because I have already seen the best of HBO. I don't think that there's an HBO show that I'm like, man, one day I'll get to that. It's either I'm not going to watch

it or I've watched it already. And HBO doesn't put out enough stuff to constantly be refilling the coffers. So, you know, if I was hitting, say, here and now season, I would just be kind of like, it's just me and this beach here in this desert island. Netflix doesn't have that problem. Netflix puts sometimes it's good, sometimes it's average, sometimes bad stuff up every Friday, and you can have all these choices. And I would say at this point, right now, Netflix has a lower ceiling than HBO. Yes. But a higher floor?

Or at least the floor is there? Well, there's just so much. and there's the promise of so much more, and they are positioned to spend themselves into relevance for the foreseeable future. I think that your Desert Island point is a good one. I agree with you. I think it would have to be Netflix just to just for the amount of choices that you could avail yourself of.

But the Desert Island test, if you were coming into this blind, if you would just, this is a tough beat, But, you know, if you came from space and then immediately crashed on a desert island. And you're like, get me Netflix. Get me something. Yeah. I would recommend HBO only because you could see so much of the best of the best. Yes, I'm just speaking from my own personal experience.

If I was like, do you want the five HBO shows a year or the seven HBO shows a year or the seven Netflix shows a week? I'd rather roll my dice with the Netflix shows. It's an interesting model because if you're talking about the competition going forward for all of these services is really going to be the content library. That's what they're stacking up to compete with each other going forward. But I think HBO's gamble, which might not prove to be enough, was trying to maintain, hold the line of quality over quantity,

and say that, yes, Netflix will give you brand new choices 50 weeks out of the year, plus this enormous deep, deep bench of all this other stuff that they've just acquired. There's got to be something there for you. But you need to see the wire. you need to see The Sopranos, you need to see Game of Thrones, we have it. And no one else is going to have it. Now, they've obviously let Amazon have some of it, which is an interesting choice, and maybe an admission that that strategy just simply isn't going to work.

But, yeah, if you can only have one, I think you've got to choose quantity. Last question. Ryan Ayoko asks with No Game of Thrones this year, what show will be taking the belt as the show to watch this spring and summer? Ryan, that's a good question. there's a difference between what Andy and I probably think is going to be like the belt show and I would imagine you know Atlanta has it right now in terms of its sort of centrality and relevance to the most amount of people while still being interesting I personally would say Westworld I know that Andy wouldn't I think handmaids has a lot to live up to in its second season

I personally didn't love the second half of the first season either of us did But those are the big ones without Thrones. I almost wonder whether or not there were some programming decisions made a year or two ago by some people to clear out for Thrones. And then now there's this Thrones hole that nobody is really occupying. When Big Little Lies comes back, which I assume will be probably 19 at this point, right? It's filming. I mean, it's filming.

It's shocking. They theoretically could put this on the air in November. This could come back. Yeah. They might not. I have a couple of that I'd throw out there but they're not going to This isn't actually going to happen

I'm curious to see if Yellowstone Gets more traction than Waco did On the Paramount Network, it stars Kevin Costner It's sort of a modern day Western They put a lot of money into it Taylor Sheridan Wrote and directed the entire thing Writer of Sikario, director of Wind River I'm also very curious to see what happens with Jack Ryan

Yeah, Jack Ryan is an interesting play for any number of reasons. But the big one is, could be good. Yeah. Could just be entertaining and good. I think in terms of this question and having the belt,

I mean, Amazon really wants not to have the belt from this podcast. Did you see the day that the cost, it's, so there was a report in the Hollywood Reporter about the Lord of the Rings properties. Yes. And they had to pay $250 million

just for the TV rights. Yeah. And once you, and they have to have something, out in two years. That's the contract they signed. Part of it was getting something to market. Once they do casting,

production, everything, they're looking at a billion dollar price tag for this thing. Yeah. I mean, it's wild. It's when the company mandate is to find the next game of Thrones.

It's an interesting time, man, because all these people have been diverting enormous amounts of resources, creative and financial, precisely for that, to that end, to be the new Game of Thrones, to take that Iron Throne when it becomes available after next year, when suddenly the Jack Donegie theory of just trying to make TV 1997 again by Science or Magic might be a better play.

I promise you, politics aside, two seasons of a Roseanne reboot is considerably cheaper than a Lord of the Rings play. Right. and getting just incredible returns for an old-fashioned network. Here's what I wonder. The NFL has recently gone through this sea change where if you have a Carson Wentz, if you have a Russell Wilson, if you have a Jared Goff, a guy who's like a young quarterback who's typically the position that takes up the most of your salary cap,

those guys can make $25, $30 million a year. If you have a younger quarterback who's on a bettered contract, you can do a lot more stuff with your offensive line and your defense and your skill players. Does it say it all true for TV? Are the margins on Stranger Things are going to get increasingly worse for Netflix because they're going to keep having to pay

the Duffers probably more? They're going to have to pay these kids as they get older more and more than if they want to keep the dream going. I'm sure this thing is that Stranger Things will probably end at four or five or whatever they've said. But I was wondering about something like Lost

and how prohibitively expensive it might be to launch relaunch lost because of what their quotes would be to do that. With the same people. Yeah.

So my question about Lord of the Rings is Game of Thrones probably seems relatively inexpensive in its first season because for as expensive as all the sets

and action must have been, it casts relative unknowns. It casts relative unknowns and the other crucial thing about it, and this is why it was a smart bet even though it was to a large degree

people have seen as being very risky. The really expensive shit was all coming. Dragons were not a thing until... No, that was mostly people talking in castles. Knowing that it was going to get more expensive, you know, TV shows, I hate use, I never

say this word right, but amortize overtime, you know, they are budgeted differently over time, so the longer something runs theoretically, you can make the margins work. But that was a smart bet because it was relatively in the scheme of things now inexpensive in the early seasons. Now it's outrageously expensive. Yeah, for sure. Because of the renegotiated contracts and... the enormous fire end ice dragons,

but they ended there. Amazon is setting a new president. That's what I'm saying. Amazon's like starting there. Yeah, and, you know, it's funny. I almost was going to make a joke, but it's not a joke. If you start from a place of extremely expensive special effects,

whether that is Gollum and elves or Jennifer Aniston and Reese Witherspoon. Yeah, right. If you start from a really expensive place, you are not only affecting the margins for everyone, you're really changing, you're changing the entire game. Because, I mean, and we've talked about this before, it's funny that we ended up in this conversation again,

but it clearly is what interests us at the moment. Apple's entrance into TV has a potential to change everything. And even though they have yet to make a television show that isn't purple pure-hury-up. They're wildly distorting the market with the deals they're throwing out and the money they're making and the press releases they're putting out, which is partly their point to say, like, look, we're here now, we're a serious thing, but it's changing everything.

And we're seeing these ripple effects everywhere, not just in Lord of the Rings, but in these mega deals that Netflix is handing out to creators, to Kenya Barris, who seemed to be in like an ideal situation as a writer-creator for ABC with Blackish in his portfolio to now saying, you know, feeling that he's in the wrong place. Yeah. And being, is it actively courted or subtly corded, whatever, making move for Netflix? So we are in a land of Giants and Dragons now. And it will be very interesting to see what comes out on top.

And if the show with a belt has to have a budget to match. I don't know. Do you know? I don't know. I don't know. I will be very interested to see how... Are we giving this podcast the Michael Clayton ending? A little ambiguity? We will be back on Monday. Thanks so much for listening.

Thanks so much for your questions. Do you guys take care? Have a great week off. Thanks, man. I mean, Chris. Today's episode of The Watch was brought to you by Green Chef. Feel like the star of your own cooking show with Green Chef meal kits. Green Chef is the meal kit company that delivers everything you need to cook gourmet meals at home,

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