The Watch - What’s Missing From Our TV Screens Right Now. Plus, Do the Movies Need Marvel?

Episode Date: June 3, 2024

Chris and Andy talk about the underperformance of movies like ‘Furiousa’ and ‘The Fall Guy’ at the box office, and whether or not a lack of Marvel movies in theaters could be to blame (1:00). Then they talk about some types of shows they feel are missing from their screens right now—like an hour-long drama that could go for multiple seasons, or a splashy adaptation (33:47). Finally they talk about the new HBO docuseries ‘Ren Faire,’ which is like ‘Succession’ set in the world of Renaissance fairs (1:02:38). Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at The Ringer.com and joining me in the studio, the new host of the Watch podcast. It's Andy Greenwald. Happy Monday, everyone. Thank you. You know, my new contract year is just beginning, so I think that it's time for me to step into the light. Your new contract year with The Ringer? No, with MLB.

Okay. Yeah. With TNT, because I have some news. I'm going to be a sideline reporter. Speaking of which, Andy, I know that you were waiting to come in. Your silence has been kind of deafening about whether the WNBA is doing enough to protect Caitlin Clark. Do you want to address that now? Well, I think the game is the game.

And Ball don't lie. There you go. Am I going to be good at this? Andy, what a day. It's Monday here in the United States. We live in Los Angeles, you know, loosely referred. referred to as a city of golden dreams where the light is always gorgeous. And that's why they made Babylon here, you know, because they wanted to represent the natural beauty of this town.

It's inaccurate. It's inaccurate. We've both been living in a gray box. Philip K. Dick is writing our life story and we're just like little pawns playing out in this June gloom that we live in. The June gloom is the sequel to the May Gray. And then let's die July coming next. It's sucks. It's real real. You don't want to California's last great defenders, too. I was, and the sun decided to, like, just take a couple months off. The sun, yeah, the sun is just taking a rest, and it's not really that nice year when the weather's not that nice.

And I don't know if you guys want to talk about this. Let's make this the most local. It worked for Malaney, so we could do an LA-centric podcast. And he had really no momentum going into that. Do you get, no, none at all. Started from a dead stop, just like the same. podcast. Do you guys, you guys feel the earthquake yesterday? Did, yeah.

No, I was asleep. Nice. I did. I dropped my wife off. This was almost 10 a.m. yesterday. That's right. I just like to check in with you guys. It's Sunday.

Leave her alone. I'm not judging her. It's Sunday. I have no children. It's not judgmental. It's more just awe. The rich lives you guys lead. What do?

I was up? You were still hearing about the day that you had to wake up at six. Yeah. You're still complaining about that day. You wake up at six because, A, you have to make breakfasts for a family. I wish I woke up at six. What time do you wake up? Today was a 545er.

Yeah, but you're also, like, you also miss some of my best texts because you go to sleep at like nine. You wake up to all of my best texts because I am very caffeinated. Go ahead. So what's your, the local angle? No, there was an earthquake. And I was like, if there's going to be. an earthquake and no sun?

Like, what is the... What's the value at? Pitch me. Yeah, right. Gavin Newsom. Tell me what I should be doing here. Like, what's the cell on California? You know what I mean? Family-style restaurants.

Would they explain the menu? Yeah. Is that it? Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. It's not great, guys. It's not great right now. Today we're going to do some news and notes

from around Hollywood. We've got a couple of cool stories to talk about. Andy has a prompt, which I loved. And yesterday we were kind of, there was some favor trading, some backscratching about when we were going to talk about what show. I know people think that this pot has deviated from its stated mission of covering television in a granular way where we break down episodes. Did we ever say that was our mission? No, actually, I don't think we ever did stay. It just says music, film, and TV on our poster.

It doesn't you say it. It's just little icons. Do you think that we should have a mission statement? Like, every so often, like, schools or colleges, like, re, you know. They update their mission. But they have like a form a committee and then a committee to talk about the committee. What's the mission statement for where your kids go to school?

Is it like Starfleet? Hey, dad. Checks do. Is that? Do they refer to you as hey dad in the emails? No, Netflix does. You remember that? Yeah, that's right.

That's right. Well, that's the name of your profile, right? Daddy. A new movie you might like has appeared. Gangs of Oslo is available. You might like it, Daddy. We should have a mission statement. We should consider that.

Maybe we should, especially we should open it up. I don't know. No, we're dictating what this is going to be. We're going to talk about hacks later this week because I finished it. Andy's going to finish it. There's a lot to talk about there. It was renewed for its fourth season. Speaking of renewals.

By the way, I don't want to put you on the spot, but Chris was like, if you just want to talk about it, maybe just watch the finale. And you're the devil on my shoulder. And I was like, Chris, there's one thing the listeners of this podcast can count on. Well, there's the devil on your shoulder. What's the angel on your shoulder saying? Take your time? The sun just came out. It's 445.

Better make a full day of it before dinner in 30 minutes. Okay. And speaking of renewals. Yes. You know, something that we've been tracking. We're so interested in this. This is honestly the only thing that keeps me doing this podcast is being the world's foremost news reactors to three body problems. We're not just reacting to news. We are reading the tea leaves. We're parsing this. every aspect of the story.

So we got our answers. We were like, what does this mean? What is this sort of light renewal mean? Still didn't get the answers. And, you know, initially it was like,

we're going to let David Benioff and D.B. Weiss and Alexander Wu complete the story they set out to tell. Right. And that was like, it was going to be two more episodes,

two more seasons. Then they cleaned it up a little bit. It's going to be multiple seasons. Then it was clarified even more by the Netflix Corporation that it was going to be two more seasons of free body problems. Let me stop you there, Chris.

I know that the playoff hockey was pretty competitive. Helling this weekend. So maybe you didn't see. Connor McDavid. Is that your guy? Yeah. You love that guy?

Well, because I'm so new to hockey. Yeah. That it's like a guy who just like started watching basketball yesterday. It is just like, LeBron is good. I like the Lakers. Everybody loves that guy. This guy is awesome at hockey. The, do you know what it takes to be good at hockey?

Like, do you feel confident? I can tell he is because all the other guys are impressed by him. Oh, cool. Yeah. Is that how you? Like the dude on the T&T broadcast was like, make Jesus mode is activated. Whoa.

Is that how you identify who you want to talk to at a party? What do you mean? When you show up, do you see who everyone else is excited to talk to you? And then you go talk to that guy. I don't actually do that. I feel like that's you, actually. People want to talk to you. They do not.

Yes, they do. That's your thing. People love it. I do. I'm talking to you right now. Right. So what I, the gang, the three body posse had a Netflix, FYC event. And they from the stage talked about this.

And I don't, you know, again, these guys don't do a lot of press or public speaking generally. So I think it was probably an interesting event. It was them and the composer and a bunch of the actors were there here in Hollywood. And they said that it wasn't intended to be cryptic. Cryptic. They will be doing two more seasons of this show. They have yet to clarify how many episodes are in these seasons. They continue to say things like, well, when we read these books, the things we wanted to do,

are all in the second season that we would like to make. So get ready. And by the way, wait a short the third season. You know? Do you feel like they couldn't say that until Netflix said you can have two more? And they were like, psych. Yeah. All the good stuff's in two-dummies.

The third season is just an Instagram real. It's just a two-body problem, really. So, yeah, that's, I appreciate, as many of our listeners probably do, appreciate the clarification. There is a world, right? I'm going to, I'm going to zag here. There is a world where, no, exactly what they have and how to portion it out could make for a stronger and more consistent two seasons than the first season that we got. Because you and I... I am still a fan of the first season.

I was a fan of it, but it fell off a cliff. Okay. Right. When did it fall off a cliff? After the eye in the sky. The first five episodes were dynamite. I'm pretty into the idea of the wallfacer. I'm into all... We're going to relitigate this. Every idea in this season of television, I'm super into. I think about it. I was compelled by it. I like the show. Yeah.

Yeah. I just think I honestly, like, it just never bored me. And I'm really like in a war with my own boredom with television these days. I think that's a good point. And I think ultimately I do agree with you. Yeah. And it was like honest.

I was excited to watch every episode. I was, I was, yeah, I was jacked to start another episode of the three body problem. And I was never like this fucking thing is taking way too much of my time. And it's, and I know exactly where it's going.

I had no idea where it was going. Right. And I never in a million years thought it was going to be a guy who was keeping the plans for humanity in his head. Yeah. And wearing a bulletproof onesie. You didn't think that the whole thing that would confound and defeat an alien race would be, I'm not going to tell you.

Well, on top of shooting a brain into outer space that then explodes. It didn't explode. It never exploded. It just veered off course. The sails broke. I know, I'm sorry. Well, that was Augie's fault. What else?

What else is on your mind today? Do you know what I did on Saturday night? I didn't tell you this. With all the... This would be the only thing you didn't tell me. I know. I like to keep a couple things in reserve. Of all the entertainment options available to us in the 21st century,

I fired up my new DVD player. I told you I got a DVD player. You didn't? I didn't. No. Kai, did I tell you? Oh, sorry, guys. I must have told my other friends.

And do you know what film got a lot? fired up? Austin Powers. Boy. Because the problem is I only have like nine DVDs. Are these DVDs from like the early 2000? Yes. And I found You kept them? I kept all my DVDs

and I found like a box full of like beautiful like criterion discs that I had and things but all the cases were empty because I guess at some point during a move or for whatever reason I put them into a CD DVD wallet. We've yet to locate that. When that kind of thing happens to you, can you rest until you find it?

Oh, I rest. I sleep like a baby until 5.45 a.m. But you don't like, you're not like fuck. Like, you're not consumed with like the missing thing. Especially not in this case, because if I want to watch Whit Stillman's Metropolitan, I can, I have five other ways to watch it right now. Sure. Now the bonus features, I don't know.

Yeah. I don't know. Okay, so you watched Austin Powers. I thought this would like excite you so much. You'd be like, why did you do that? How did it age? has comedy changed? Were you watching it by yourself?

I was still loading her room watching us. Laughing, laughing and laughing. Okay, all right, that's not a prompt. Do you want my other prompt? No, I want to do the news first. And then we're going to do it like the regular podcast version where we do the news and then we have like a conversation and then we'll touch on Renfair, which is a docu series on HBO.

One fun thing about this podcast is we waited 14 minutes to say what show we're going to talk about. If it doesn't matter, nobody knows what we're talking, going into it. All right, so you passed this along this morning at about 5.52 a.m. Yeah. That Marvel's Captain America Brave New World was heading in for some more, not some more reshoes. Apparently. For reshoots. There's been a lot of talk about the state of this movie that I think we've been misinformed or not reporting.

putting off gossip. I think because of its delays and just the rejiggering of the Marvel schedule in general, we, I kind of like, I've assumed that this movie is in trouble. Whereas this is the first bit, and it has gone through some rewrites

and it has all blah, blah, blah, blah. And also, very late in the game, I would say, they announced that John Carl Esposito had joined the cast as a villain. Late in the game, they didn't announce it. Like, they announced,

or he was teasing that he was going to play in the Marvel sandbox or whatever, a month ago. Yeah. It has now been deduced that his casting was being added

to a movie that was apparently wrapped. I didn't realize this. I didn't realize they wrapped production filming principal photography on

Captain America Brave New World before the writer's strike in April 2023. And they have been sitting on it and tweaking it and doing post on it

until now when they have gone back into production for 22 days of reshoots that I guess are going to create out of whole cloth a new villain for the film played by Giancarlo Esposito.

Yeah, and it's worth noting that Kevin Feigey has, and this is from the Hollywood Reporter article about Esposito's casting, that Feigey had promised no aliens, no alien invasions, and no time travel. That does not rule out Mephisto, right? Yeah, there's no devil. Yeah.

I mean, in a way, Mephisto is always with us. But what about Mephisto? I'm just going to let you keep saying that. That's fine. So it could be any number of characters. Here's why I found just even this new story notable at all. Andy. Okay.

Does it turn out that we? And I use both you and I, but I think the entire media, like Hollywood and the entire complex that we're talking about here, turn I kind of need Marvel. Oh, I'm ready for this conversation. Does it turn out that like when it's just fall guy and Fury? Riosa out there on the Fury Road alone. Yeah. Without the cover of Daddy Deadpool, it's a little hard out there at the multiplex.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, like we have the acolyte coming tomorrow. And there's an embargo talking about it, but I have seen the first episode. And the first two go up. It's not an embargo on the humble brag about the screeners. When did that embargo lift? Moments ago. Congratulations.

Are we fighting? A little bit. Are we? No. I just was wondering whether or not the kind of the cover that Marvel and Star Wars have provided over the last decade is being missed right now. I think there's no question, and I think that if you asked the studios, they would say that. I mean, also just to manage their bottom lines, for a long time, they could just count on certain things, that there was a floor at the very least of what they would be making theatrically over the course of a year or how the summer would go.

I don't think, and I guess I wonder, there's no way of knowing, like, just Kevin Feig? Is he like rallying the troops being like, we're going to just absolutely make the greatest movies because Hollywood needs us? I mean, is that become the narrative that we have to get our mojo back? And I don't mean Mojo, the X-Men villain, you know, proprietor of the mojoverse. We'll circle back to that in about a year. We have to get it back for the good of the community and the town. I think what we have to deal with, though, is the reality that what is the floor and what

us the ceiling for Captain America, Brave New World. I'm not saying this because I don't like Anthony Mackey's portrayal of the character, or that Marvel isn't capable of making what is essentially, I mean, we're not going to do the director bullshit, but Winter Soldier, like, okay, Winter Soldier is not, if you took away whatever connections or connective tissue Winter Soldier has to Thanos or the Avengers initiative, it's still a solid action movie that would have made a ton of money. Sure. They could do this with this movie.

but a movie that is this ad hoc, like, clearly being cobbled together and trying to meet the moment, like the history of those doing well is, it's not a great history. Sure. I guess I was more thinking, like, even when Marvel movies or Star Wars things fail, that the speculation that I think, say, Furiosa and Fall Guy have gotten over the last couple of weeks of, like, what's wrong with original filmmaking in the box office is more directed towards them. and like everything else is like a pleasant surprise. Or like even though the box office, like, even though the budgets for those films are so big. It's the sin eater for all the conversation.

Yes. That is 100% true and I like that. And it's almost easier to watch the fall guy, compare it to, I don't know, Deadpool and Wolverine and be like, why can't we have more of this? Yes. Original filmmaking, romantic action comedies,

movie stars being movie stars, blah, blah, blah, and not wearing like, you know, rubber suits. And no disrespect to the true believers like our friend Amanda Dobbins, but like the majority of people who have liked Fall Guy more than I liked it, the reason for liking it is often, well, at least it's not this. Or it's better than that. Or I would rather blank. My problem with it was that I just, it was just like, you know, it's fine, but it's winky, winky, it's kind of fake. It just bugged me because I think we should do better than that. Yes. But when it is an alternative to, yeah, whatever Marvel movie is out, it definitely looks a little bit better. And I think that Furiosa missed the lane for what it's worth because, yeah, it's not an alternative to something else. It's just like, here's a franchise for you.

And the world said, no, thank you. Well, the world was like, I'll watch it on streaming in three weeks. That's what's happened with Fall Guy. It's going to happen with Furiosa. That goes up like mid-June. Although isn't the bigger, I mean, I think the bigger argument to be made in Will, see when Marvel or DC makes a good one again, is that like, maybe we just need to make good movies. And then people respond. That's the easiest tonic to all of this. But I also am been interested

in some of the conversation, and, you know, Sean and Amanda talk about this, but you see it bubbling up a little bit, which is that just, it's not just that the paradigm of how we watch movies and how we engage with this stuff has shifted, but we're not really shifting how we talk about it and how we measure success. There have been a couple examples. The biggest one last year was the Pixar movie elemental, which was not a fan of. But it was instantly buried as another one of Pixar's recent run of catastrophic, woke, whatever. And then it made money. Slowly, but it made money and became a profitable film.

There are a bunch of people, and I don't know if these are all like Dobbins Burners, but like the fall guy, people are like, Fall Guy's not really fallen. Fall Guy's making money every week. Yeah, it had like only a certain drop-off from week this week. And it was like, see, people are still coming out for Fall guy. if it stayed in theaters, it would continue to make money that way, and word of mouth, which is better than the words

coming out of my mouth about it, like, that would be different. And I'm not going to talk about my feelings about it. We're going to save it for later in the week, but I did go to the cinemaplex to see the second time, to pay to see a Netflix movie. You're the best. I believe in theaters. Yeah.

Went to see Hitman. And we'll talk about it this week. It's a really interesting movie that I really enjoyed, but more than anything, I did walk out of it, being like, this should be in theaters. I mean, it was at festivals. They were like, come grab us and Netflix. I don't even think Netflix outbid a lot of people for that movie.

I think it was more like, we'll do this. And they were like anyone else and nobody else was coming up for it. I feel like we're talking about, I don't know how useful this is in terms of like how financial decisions are made in this town. But I feel like we're talking about as a certain type of conversation about movies that is missing, which is maybe not as significant as money that is missing in movies. or at least in the box office. But the thing that I feel about Hitman is, like,

the old version of putting a movie like that into theaters, which is seating it slowly, taking the long game, getting people talking about it in the summer when other people are watching other things, is counter-programming. I think it would do really well. Certainly in comparison to its budget, right? And then the whole Glenn Powell is a star narrative.

Glenn Powell, I can talk freely about him, as I don't think he listens to this ringer podcast, but he is a star. Yeah. He's great. And he's got a blockbuster movie coming a couple weeks from now with Twisters. So it would be a big summer of Glenn Powell. You could kind of piggyback off of like a lot of the Twisters.

I mean, you know, they've promoted the hell out of Hitman to the extent that they can. I don't think, I think that the old, ultimately the issue with the stuff that comes out on Netflix isn't necessarily the quality of it. It's just that we have no way of quantifying or understanding whether it's cultural impact.

And they can throw as many, you know, the Netflix data leak or data dump about like this movie or that. movie and they'll tell you 122 billion hours of time was spent watching, you know, the gray man. Yeah. But it just doesn't feel like it was as big as, you know, a movie, any other big blockbuster movie that was actually in theaters. I'm sure that companies do this, but I wonder what the metrics are they used to consider

the value of being, quote, unquote, in the conversation or in which conversation. You can't really put a dollar sign on it and also which conversation and who's listening and those are all really hard things to track. But I do think that there is a sense of contributing brick by brick to a larger project in things like this, where if Hitman is in theaters and Glenn Powell is proving that he can attract audiences or this type of movie can attract audiences, that pays it forward to the next Glenn Powell picture or the next Richard Linklater movie or the next counter-programming. That's a much larger conversation about whether the people running Hollywood or custodians of like the legacy of Hollywood, the future of Hollywood, or whether they're.

custodians of their shareholders' interests. Yeah. And, you know, I was just listening to Bill and Rusillo and Brian Curtis talking about, like, the NBA media rights and the idea that there are certain things that could be done to improve the fan experience or, you know, maybe make life a little bit easier for the people who are playing in the games. And it's just like, if you guys aren't paying attention,

I don't know what to say. They're not going to shorten the NBA season. Yep. You know, they're not going to, they're going to make an 18th NFL game. They're going to keep pumping this thing. It's the ATM and they're going to bleed a, try. And I think that, you know, with all due respect to Netflix, who produced or at least released my favorite television show of the year so far in Ripley, I think they probably have

a similar attitude about it. It's like, it's not our job to worry about where the next Glenn Powell comes from. Yeah. Like, it's our job to put the next Glenn Powell on Netflix. That's it. Yeah, I agree with that. And I think the 18th NFL game is Captain America Brave New World. There you go. I mean, it. You brought it home. Right? But like, you know what I mean? Like, Kevin Feige, I think, we talk about this, like, every week or every other week, like, the opportunity to hard reboot and try again and show what good, what a good world builder he is with Fantastic Four and X-Men. That's great. That's around the corner. That's the get out of jail free card.

We will be treating those projects with our usual trademark blend of credulous optimism. But these are projects on the ones that sort of trickle out at the end. to the TV and also the Marvels and Brave New World, and I'm not sure if there are any other that are like this, where they're like, these sort of happened because of like entropy. Like they sort of felt like they had to happen. Yeah.

Which feels like a bummer because a movie with Anthony Mackey as Captain America, that's an exciting premise. Sure. And I'm sure one of the five so far publicly named screenwriters who have worked on this, some of them, if not all of them. Is Malcolm Spellman still involved with this project? No. I imagine he, when arbitration is,

done, he'll probably get a story buyer. He was the first writer of this project. I'm sure some, if not all of them, probably all of them, were like, I feel passionate about what this could be, but you end up with something that is just, it has to come out. Yeah.

And do you think John Carlos Bizzito is going to play a guy who's like really immaculate in his sartorial life and vicious underneath that crisp exterior? Because that would slay on the big screen. Honestly, it will. I know. I mean, he's always good at it. It's tough. It's like, I just, you know, you remember John Carlos Vizino from his early days

in, like the early Spike Lee films that you were in? Like Jim Jarmish movies. He's bugging out. Yeah, he's bugging out. It's like, now you've sort of calcified into this thing. But like, the thing he does is better, he does it better than anybody else. Can I say what I thought you were where this was headed? Sure. When it was announced or word started

to bubble up last week that he was, in the last few weeks that he was going to be in Marvel movies, I was just sitting here, just tapping my watch being like, when's Chris going to ask if he's Professor X? Oh, that would be amazing. Because wouldn't that be cool? Well, if he's listed as a villain, could Professor X be a villain? Like, can they like turn the tables?

You mean hashtag Magneto? Hashtag Magnito was right? Isn't that what X-Men 97? Are you a Genotion rights activist? I wanted to just say one thing about Ackleite. Oh, you're risking the embargo here. It's not, it's not breaking the embargo. Okay. I just, I'm not sure if anybody has tweeted this or joked about this yet.

Do you want me to do a quick search? If you don't mind. But I don't think anyone's potted this yet. So I'm staking my claim on this bit as a pod is that from now on when we say the words the acolyte, we have to say it the way Dave Matthews sings satellite. Oh. Yeah.

That's just occurred to you or does that happen in the show? No, it just occurred to me. Oh. That you and I should be like, like, to do it? Acolyte. Is that funny? Are you just road testing material in this pot? Yeah, you know how like when a comic

do like a late-night seller session? I sure do. Just to make sure. Yeah, I thought you just did that on the big picture. No, that's where I saved my good stuff. I thought you went on the big picture and you just like just dumped the notebook of all your political takes,

your most dangerous opinions, and then when you came here, you were sharpened. You had a really great prompt for today, though. Before we do it, should we say in the service of serviciness that Acolyte hits the Disney Plus service? Two episodes,

It's tomorrow. Tomorrow. So we'll be talking about that later in this week. The boys, maybe with its by now trademark three episode drop coming next week on Amazon Prime. And then I guess that's it for major genre shows, right? This month. Anything you want to add? House of the Dragon is coming.

The following week. Yes. Right. Yeah. Is there anything else? Those are the big ones this month. Yeah. Presumed Dissent.

Sort of a major franchise. For some of us. Yeah. Bonnie Bedelia. Are you excited for that? It's the remix. It's not really, I don't even know if it is a remix. I don't know if they're just going to go straight.

I love the cast. I think that's really exciting. My guy, Bill Camp cooking. I watched that trailer and I was like, this has night of vibes. Yeah. It's like trashy night of vibes, but it has it? Like, when does this premiere?

Oh, June 12th. Yeah. That's coming soon. Remember when you were like, what shows are coming up for us soon? And I was like, presumed it isn't? Renata Rinesvay. They never know to say her name.

Yes. But that's our, you know, the worst person in the world. whom we love, and also, you know, you and I are big fans of Norway and the Norwegian people. Sure. So we have to support her. Ruth Nega, Elizabeth Marvel and Bill Kemp. Aren't they married?

Are they? I always thought so. Anyway, I'm excited about that. But like, do you feel like as a Toro head from the old days, the Scott Toro fan, do you need this presumed innocent to be like, maybe presumed guilty? Do you need a twist on this? Is that presumed innocent without giving anything away about the original film in Harrison Ford? Yeah, Camp and Marvel are married.

Great. Everybody knows this. Marvel Camp. Why hasn't Kevin Feigy made that? But it's just Bill Camp and Elizabeth Marvel running a school for gifted children. Do you remember, like, maybe in some ways... Or a camp for gifted children.

It's like where the kids from Professor X's school go to summer camp. I love this. First of all, this is gold. But it reminds me, the way that I would like to see that show happen, it reminds me of like the one of the... We'll look back historically as one of the weirdest times

of like Hollywood Greenlights, where coming out of the pandemic, Showtime gave a series order to Mandy Patinkin and his wife, Kvetching in their cabin. Because everyone liked those videos during lockdown. That was like, didn't Krasinski get like $200 million for his late night show and that it, like, he stopped hosting it or something?

His show some good news that he did from his brownstone. And then right, right, he got a huge deal for it, but the deal was that he wasn't going to do it? Yeah. Can I get that in my next ringer contract? Sure. Are you not going to do the watch anymore? Did I say that part out loud?

The Watch with Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald. But Andy's not here. What else were you talking about? No, no. We were talking about... I wanted to know... I do have a... I do have a prompt for you.

But I wondered with things like Presumed Innocent, which I think have... I'm not even going to ask Kai if she, like, carries a torch for the original Scott Toro novel, presumed innocent, or the film. Have you seen either of these things? So I don't think it has like a long cultural footprint. But do you feel like David E. Kelly,

who adapted this should spice it up and make it different than the book? Here's the problem. It's either going to be too faithful to the original material or it's going to be obvious that the twist is coming. The double twist is coming. And you're going to be like, well, you had to do that because you were remaking it. Like even the act of remaking something with a giant twist like that, you basically are admitting up front, aren't you, that you have to twist the twist?

Well, this is the, these are the conversations that the people who make the real money should be having and probably presumably did. Look, I mean, in the last five minutes, I made the Dave Matthews Accolite joke. That was good. Marvel Camp. That was great. And now I've just fixed, presumed innocent. So who's underpaid here in this room? Not the guy who doesn't have to show up

in his new deal. That was the fatal attraction issue, I believe, with the television show. Yeah. It's like, it's all a good idea in the packaging and selling it phase in a pre-strike Hollywood. Where it's like, we got stars, we got IP, we're going to do this way. But then you run into

the way, why are we doing this? Yeah. But I'm interested to see. I mean, Jake Gyllenhaal makes interesting and good choice. Yeah, June's going to be actually a pretty decent month. Obviously, the Barren House of the Dragon are the heavy hitters and the boys. But there's like really cool shows popping up and around there.

Yeah, do you want me to do my prompt? Yeah, go ahead. I mean, you can keep big up in June. No, I'm just looking forward to the TV that's coming. Because the sun is dead. There's nothing else to do. That was my problem yesterday is I just sat at my house.

And I just watched TV all day. How did you feel at the end of the day? Like in your soul? I think it's had a little bit of a carryover onto today. You know, I had like weird shoulder pain, getting over a cold, no wife. I mean, she's just not here. Breaking news?

No, she's traveling. And, yeah, watch hockey, you know. And Renfair and Hacks and more hockey. a rewatchable's movie. Did you, you didn't watch the Phillies? No, I really am going to stick to after Independence Day for this, I think.

All right. Yeah. I'll be waiting for you on the other side. I get through these Stanley Cup playoffs. No, I know, they're important. So the thing that I was thinking about yesterday was as we were texting. As you were cracking open

this Austin Powers TV. You know what was crazy about the DVD? It was a two-sided, the real heads will remember this, two-sided disc, and one side of the disc was the movie in full screen and the other side was in like the old box ratio.

Not letterbox. Not letterbox. None of them were letterboxed. So where it's like huge black bars. My mom's still when I'm like, when it starts, she'll just be like, I don't want the bars. She doesn't like the letterbox. Have you told Sean this?

Well, no, I don't think she knows anything about the app, but like it's just... I don't mean the app. I just feel like Sean as the, you know, the avatar of cinema. Like he should appear to her. Is Sean the avatar of cinema? Yeah, but the last Airbender avatar, not like James Cameron.

He should appear to her and give her a pep talk. What was the alternative to, like, it's Austin Powers or that was it? Oh, like the band Luna's video discography? These are the discs that I didn't put into the wallet. Someday, 25 years from now. It's pretty cool. It's pretty cool. Can you imagine if we were living in like I Am Legend and you had a DVD

player and a generator and two DVDs, and it was Austin Bowers and the Luna videography. But it's also like Chris Cunningham's Apex Twin videos. Yeah. You know, like, remember the director's series DVDs? Like Spike Jones had one. These are all like promotional things that I got that I kept, but I didn't, I was like a beautiful, like Terry Gilliam's Brazil, three-disc set for Criterion. Empty. It's lifted up just hollow in the inside, just like your soul after watching TV all day. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Ever have a plan come together out of nowhere and realize you're missing something?

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That sounds delicious. Get savings with yellow sale sign store. wide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. So we were going back and forth about what we should be talking about today and this week. And there's stuff, obviously, there's a lot of stuff coming. We are going to get to hacks.

We're going to talk about accolite this week. I'm not singing yet. I'm not comfortable with that fully. Acolyte. It's growing on me. Guys laughed each time I've done it. Because what people listening don't understand is that you make, like, dead eye eye contact when you do it. I'm committed. I really want to be present for the rest of this episode. I like that.

I was like, what's missing? Yeah. What is missing from our TV engagement? It's actually, not to pull a Chris Ryan classic, it's not a reverse segue, it's a callback. What we did get with three body problem, which was just like, ooh, I'm excited. Yeah. Even if I don't, even if I'm like, what are they doing? I was excited. What types of shows? So we're not here to talk about specific shows. No, no, no. You have the prestige TV pod for that.

I'm asking you, vibe-wise. What bucket is empty currently that would add to your experience as a TV viewer and commentator? So I went back through the last, it's tough because sometimes I need to, like, adjust for COVID, like, in terms of, like, the way of stuff is produced and delivered to us. But I went back over the last five or six years of our top tens when you asked me about this to see what was present there that isn't going to be probably showing up in our top 10 this year in a sort of type of show. You know, like what is the type of show that was on the 2018, 2019, end of year top 10 that will not show up probably in 2024? And can we do one other caveat? I am sure that people who listen to our podcast regularly and or comment about on the internet,

we'll have a suggestion of something we're not watching or that we've willfully ignored for some of these boxes. Respectfully, I bet I have. You probably have. No, and no, I mean to those people where I'm just like, I actually think that's like a secondary conversation, which is, are we getting a lot of these shows and they're just not quite as good as they were in 2018 or 19 for a variety of reasons? Good point. But yes, I'm sure some people, you're going to say, I would love this type of show and they're going to be like, well, actually, there's four of those shows on Apple right now. I know. That's a good point.

Okay, so please, I cut you off. So you went through the, you went to the archives. Yeah. And I think that I did see some, some holes that were no longer or at least currently not with us. The biggest one, obviously, and I think this is one where I will take it on the chin. I think we could be a little bit of accountable for this is a show that is in season two or three and is in full flight. Oh, I was building to this. Yeah.

Has a, like a upswell of. of interest because people have caught up over the last couple of seasons. And if you just go back over the years, whether it's your berries, your successions, or whatever, shows, even first two, three seasons, Ozark for me, like shows that had like a communal feeling of, this is back, this is awesome, let's watch it every week. Shows that have legs and momentum, long distance runner shows. Now, at this point, we're about to get two of them this month and possibly three,

depending on how you want to describe House of the Dragon, because it will be back for more seasons, I would imagine. But Bear, Boys, and Dragon, all coming back in June, all kind of having, you know, some sort of sense of like, yeah, our programs are back, you know? Well, I agree.

And I think that if you squint that tracks, I mean, the effect that the bear trailer had on me was what you're describing. I'm like, I'm so excited. Yeah, I'm getting emotional thinking about watching the show. My TV pals are back. The number one, I agree with you.

See, this is interesting. See, I was going to go, like, Three to one, you're starting with number one. This would have been my headliner. What I really, really lack is an hour-long television show. So this is why I think those three shows don't really qualify. Okay. An hour-long show about non-superpowered or dragon-riding people

that doesn't arrive with a ceiling. And what I mean by that is we've had two shows this year, potentially three, if you throw Ripley in, that are exceptional. to my mind, and I think to many of our listeners' minds as well. Ripley, Mr. and Mrs. Smith, and Shogun. All of those were built with trap doors or glass, break in case of success. Yeah.

And then you can make more of them. None of them were built to just get you going. Sistine. None of them got started with a traditional, the highways are clear. We'll see how far this thing can go. That that feeling, and I know we've, had pilot fatigue in the past, but I don't know if we have pilot fatigue for shows that are like,

hey, what do you think? As opposed to, hey, get ready. We're going to bring the house down in just eight short hours. So pay attention to everything. And it's really noisy. Did we mention who directed this? Not that. I'm thinking about like the Americans pilot. You know, that is a strange example because this is, it's already over 10 years ago. And people just don't make shows like that anymore. And they wouldn't make that show today. But I wish they would, you know, because the Americans was of excellent show if it lasted only one year. It didn't last only one year because it proved to be an even better than excellent show and was getting better. And to your point, continue to build momentum, build audience, build attention, and it had the legs to go. We are existing in a moment when almost

no one can afford the risk of empowering something like that. There's so little in the control of the development executives or the just the executive executives that these networks, that these and streaming companies. So everything is just sort of with guardrails or these sort of backdoor potential continuations. And that's a very, very, very different thing. It's not really TV the way you and I remember it. And I think that's kind of a bummer.

Yeah, and I think that there is, I honestly didn't think enough to articulate what I'm about to say beyond making a broad stroke thing that like, if I was playing the imaginary commenter being like, but Andy, what about? Outer Range or Tokyo Vice or for All Mankind or whatever, shows that are at least in the second season, if not third, fourth season. There is something different. Yes.

And I don't know what it is. I don't know whether it's pacing. I don't know whether we've all watched too much TV in the last six years. And now some pretty normal storytelling mechanisms about television are starting to feel like I can see it coming from a mile away. I know that they are just wasting time to get to this inevitable moment. moment, you know, like I can't, I think maybe I'm kind of seeing the gears shift inside of it too much. I agree with you. I think that the difference between what I'm trying to articulate and what the examples that you're giving, I'm going to use a metaphor that is based on childhood toys.

Okay. Outer Range, Tokyo Vice, these very premise heavy, in the case of out of range, star-driven or location-driven, or Michael Mann was a, you know, part of the package that sold Tokyo Vice. These are expensive shows to mount. Those remind me of like a top that you have and you drop from a great height. And if it spins, everyone's like, holy shit, look at that spinning. Wow. Wow, they pulled it off. Let's see how long it spins.

Well, if it spins too long, then you're like at my inside of inception. I was hoping you'd go there. Exactly. The other type of show is just like a little matchbox car that you rev up. And then you see how far it goes. Okay. Is that analogy work? I know you don't have children to reference directly in this.

No, but I'm familiar with toys. Yeah. You weren't too busy going to parties and playing travel baseball. You still remember? You still that innocence of childhood? Accoral relate. One more, and it's officially a bit. Do you know what I mean, though?

Yes. Yeah. And now, I should say that, like, from behind the curtain of all caps, this town, the push pre-strike and then certainly post-strike has been... Please make shows. with legs, right? Please make ER again. I also don't know if that's the same thing.

We also haven't really seen a lot of those put into practice. It feels, though, all like a very unsustainable game, where even just casually the things that I understand that are being attended to or picked up, or we're still, it does still seem like we're in a world where everyone is so hesitant to, everybody wants the old model back. They want bundles, they want ER, they want TV to be TV again. But the people who are currently in the jobs to make those decisions are so, in such,

experiencing such precarity in their professional lives that they almost, they will stick their necks out for big swings, right? Which it's like the home run hitting as opposed to just what's the true outcome, singles and walks. Yeah, right, right. The stuff that might rebuild the television watching experience in like a sustainable, day-to-day way isn't sexy enough for people to risk their jobs for. I don't know. It's a quagmire. There might be stuff greenlit that fits all these bills we don't know about, of course. But if so, it's still over a year away.

So, like, I wonder if there is a version of, you know, how in movies it's survived to 25 for the theatrical experience. I wonder if there's something similar for television where it's just like, we just have to, like, kind of get through this era. There was a, at the Austin Television Festival over the weekend, or likely last weekend over the weekend. A bunch of television executives, presidents of networks, but, you know, just development content executives had a roundtable where they pretty openly talked about, like, there's going to need to be some contraction. There's going to need to be like a, like we have to

come down in volume. 600 shows is not normal. 600 shows. Nobody can differentiate themselves. We can't worry. We can't do quality control. We can't tell stories in an important and meaningful way, yada, yada, yada. And whether. or not this contraction comes about from just everybody deciding to bring their slate down to more manageable levels, or one of these streamers getting merged into another and they're being like a bloodletting after that. And then we're like, okay, now there's like four of these things instead of seven. I think that's also inevitable. So I wonder whether or not like survived to 25 is almost like TV is going to take OZempic for a little while and then we're going to come back with our beach bod in 25.

I think there's a lot of magical thinking about how long these beachbods are going to last and how much people are going to want to look at them. Yeah. Frankly. Yeah, I think there's a lot of that thinking of like, well, it's something's going to, something's going to change. Something's going to happen that will cause the market to reset or restart or something that will get our audience back. I mean, like the other ones that I had on my list, because I think the other relevant

piece of this that is a little bit more doom saying that we may want to do today was Hollywood reporter had a, was reporting on a. survey of who was watching broadcast television. Oh, yeah. And the median age for a network primetime viewer long has been above 50. This year, the average, the median age for someone watching a show on ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, or the CW is 64.6 years old. I mean, I think everybody kind of knows that. everybody jokes about who watches CBS or whatever, but that is shocking.

Yes. That is shocking. What was more shocking is that cable is much the same. Bravo, which skews younger than most networks, has a median viewer age of 56. Huh. Bravo. The big three news channels, average viewer, and that's MSNBC, CNN, and Fox, the average viewer age is 69.

So one thing that might be worth noting, is we just fucked up and people aren't going to watch TV anymore. Right. Like, that's not the median age of Netflix or, you know, people who watch Wednesday on Netflix. Like, young people watch and engage with shows. I hope it's not 71-year-olds.

It's just be like, never. I got Wednesdays back. That's creepy. Yeah. But this might be more like the conversation with movies where everybody is tearing their hair out. Like, I just was a moment ago, about protecting the legacy of the cinematic experience.

and everyone else is just like, sorry, Grandad, there's a new TikToker. Sure. That's, I said that on purpose. That's dark. That's dark. I don't know if me being here, like, I wish I had a ongoing drama series to get engaged in. I don't know if me saying, and one of the things I had here is I wish there was a new Mike Scher or Mike Scher related comedy to engage with both on a comedic and an emotional level.

Sure. And for people, I mean, I mean like Parks and Rec or the Good Place, something like that. But like, and this is really disappointing to hear for our guys, Shea and Jason. But like Primo getting canceled is like a, is an example of that kind of wind blowing the wrong direction. Okay, yes. Thank you for bringing that in. I wanted to talk about that. That's absolutely outrageous.

Primo was on my top 10 for last year. It's a fantastic comedy. Yes, made by our friends, but also just the type of show that people should, it should be a no-brainer that shows like that exist. The Teagan and Sarah Show High School also canceled. Also good. And this goes back to the very smart point you made about the people in charge of these companies and their corporate strategies. None of that has anything to do with being caretakers of a medium. And Primo and the Teigen and Sarah show, and yes, all four of these people have been on the watch podcast and we like all of these people personally. but those two shows were on FreeVee,

which used to be IMDB TV, which is owned by the Amazon Corporation. And is now MGM Plus or like, what are they? Or are they just like, no, we're just going to put ads on everything anyway unless you opt out and pay more. Exactly. So FreeVie was going to be Amazon's like pitched slightly downwards.

It's ad supported. We're going to try to like eat the heart of broadcast television through this service. But now everything is ads. And so it's, feels like, again, I have no inside knowledge about this, it just feels totally capricious. Like Amazon's like, no, we changed our strategy. So what's the body count of that? Two really, really strong shows that got incredibly promising first seasons and then cut short.

The lifeblood of the industry needs shows like that to build up not just the talent and, you know, the writers on season one of Primo could become the showrunners of something else if they get three seasons of this under their belt or whatever. But I do think that just like to engage, with a medium where you can count on certain types of entertainment to grow with, you need to have those relationships with your viewers, especially the ones under the age of 56.6 or whatever, which thankfully include us. Yeah. We're the young bucks now again, sort of. I'm trying to think of, like, what are the other things that I have here that I would love to have on TV right now? Again, acknowledging that perhaps something like this is there. I would just say, I think you both

you and I would both agree. I would love a fucking super indulgent fuck off TV art show like too old to die young or Twin Peaks the Return. Oh yeah. You know, even something that was like,

Michaela Cole has the ball. Just clear the fuck out. Let's go. Like, let's go. Like, and kind of pushing the boundaries a little bit where it feels like you're having

like a psychedelic ritual with your television. You're like, I can't believe that this is on TV. The last time I experienced that, I mean, honestly, it was Ripley.

where I was just like, I can't believe this one got past the sensors. But the last time before that was probably Copenhagen Cowboy. Yeah. I was like, LOL, this rules. But those were, that's a vestige of a previous era when the streamers were desperate for content, desperate for cred, and many of our favorite filmmakers, Lynch and Reffen among them,

they go where the money is to make their visions. And those corporations were willing to fund them briefly. I mean, I think it's notable. I'm excited. David Lynch said that he's going to announce something, thing this week, June 5th, but who knows what it might be. Is there any Twin Peaks, like, lore that suggests June 5th is somehow relevant to Twin Peaks?

That would be too deep for even for me to know. Well, if you don't know, then it probably isn't. No, Joanna might know. But I don't, I don't know of any. There was real movement for a while in, like, in the post Twin Peaks to return period where Lynch was in business with Netflix. He was making a show, or rumor to be a show, a long movie or something. It had a name I don't have in front of me. He was doing auditions. He was

talking about it. He briefly had a short, or it's still up there probably, but there was this weird short he made about a monkey for Netflix. It was like the sign of like, ah, we have a new relationship. A classic monkey movie to get things going. That fell apart and that project. So in my dream world, he's announcing that he's making it or he did make some of it or he funded it himself or whatever. But yeah, briefly, he was going to make a Netflix show and no longer. I mean, that was five years ago no longer, but no longer. The other ones, similar to your Mike Scher thing, I was like, I'd be happy to have four Abbottish sitcoms.

We didn't really talk about the end of Abbott, the end of the season of Abbott, but it was another really enjoyable season. Frankly, also like... It was called Wisteria. Sorry, the David Lee Show. Knowing that Abbott had to really work tight around the writer's strike to get a season,

the season that they had up. I thought it was a delightful season. I agree with you. I mean, it is a, unique one-of-one show in the sense that Quinta Brunson put together something really special, really magical, but there should be five contenders nipping at her heels. She shouldn't be the only person with a specific set of influences and a love for the genre that is given the chance to pull off. And I know that there have been shows like Grand Auto or I know there was the Craig Robinson

show killing it that a lot of people loved. So I'm not saying that there's not sitcoms out there that are operating at a really high level and just aren't being seen. I just kind of kind of miss like a new girl or a happy endings, just to kick back with on a random Wednesday, you know? But, you know, last week we talked about, we were talking about tires, the sort of the lack of the comedy development, sitcom development pipeline the Comedy Central was providing. Am I crazy or is the romantic sitcom kind of gone? Abbott has, has it and still interested in telling those stories.

but the examples you're giving, I can't think of any that have elements of that. The greater Mindy Kaling industrial complex still tries to like kind of do that. And her, she has an upcoming like Lakers-inspired show that seems kind of fun. And she's got sex lives of college girls. Okay, that's good call. Which I've, I just like find the,

literally like the scene length of sex lives of college girls makes me feel like I'm having a stroke. Because like it'll be like three seconds. It's like they're almost made for clips, you know? Anyway, I would really like to see those two things, like a really indulgent art piece from a filmmaker and a sitcom. I think those are good calls. I think you got my big ones. The other two possibilities I was going to mention were I would like to still live in the world where the interesting historical or like a feat popcorn miniseries that now are all on Apple, we're still on HBO.

it's funny to say this because it wasn't that long ago where we were talking about how much we enjoyed the night of or the outsider or even, I mean, I didn't even think it was that good, but the undoing, the Hugh Grant and Nicole Kidman show, those were all HBO experiences. And this feels arbitrary to say, but as much as the undoing was kind of preposterous at times. I trust the HBO version of it that we saw 10 times more than I would trust the Apple version of it that we would get if it was a project that was being shopped now. Even things like Manhunt or the Benjamin Franklin thing with Michael Douglas, like, I mean, and I didn't even watch it, but I would imagine you could speak to Band of Brothers.

Masters of the Air, yeah. The Masters of the Air is the sequel to Band of Brothers. Like the HBO versions of these things. Yeah, because Ben Franklin is John. Adams, you know, like Manhunt could be something. I'd like to think, call me, you know, this is an ultimate OK boomer, or I guess X or whatever we are. But like, I think they maybe would have been different under the development process at HBO. And I kind of, I miss those shows. It's funny, I'm saying, like, I want ongoing shows, but I also want, like, a prestige

mini. But I kind of like the way HBO did it. And it's the full caveat, HBO did just do the sympathizer, which is a big literary adaptation with a lot of stars in front of the camera. I mean, with Downey Jr. and with talent. Talent. It didn't work for me. We didn't stick with it.

I just, I lost the drive, even though I admired what I saw. But even that kind of missing might preclude us from seeing more. I want to tell you something, you and I, predator meme, where we're like reaching across slamming. Do you know what we both want? What? Do you know what we're going to get? I love it. What?

More night manager. We are getting more night manager. want the John LeCarrie industrial complex to be up and running. We want to just get a six to eight miniseries, episode miniseries once a year. That's fine. That's all I want. You know? And there are so many books. Honestly, just keep making them over and over again. I really don't care. My life, how much longer is it? You know, like, I'm not here. Speaking of stewards of Hollywood and the future, just just give me, honestly, just make a ticker Taylor Soldier spy miniseries for all I care. You know, like, let's do it.

Did you, yeah. And they're doing two more seasons of the night manager with Tom Hiddleston and Hugh Lorry returning. Did you see who they just cast? Diego Calva from Babylon and Camilla Moroni from Daisy Jones in the 6th. She was awesome in that. She was great in that.

And she's, she's like beautiful. She's exciting to what, like, that's who you want in that show. She can stand up or stand next to Tom Hiddleston's linen shirts. Yeah. I love that. I agree with that. That's exciting. That seems good.

I don't mind. Like, we want. big artistic swings, but we also want just do good work within the little furrow that you're working in, which was why my last one was one of the greatest joys of the last, like, 10 years of my life culturally, was when we realized

that there was a French spy show that had five seasons for us during the pandemic, and that's La Bureau. It reminded me, I'm thinking back to it now, how fun that was, that it reminded me of one of my favorite feelings of all, which is when you read one book by an author you've never heard of, and then you reach the end, and you realize there's five to 25 more.

Yeah. And you're like, oh, I'm set now. I know how it's going to make me feel and I can keep hitting it and hitting it. Yeah. You had that since McMertry? Bookwise, not to that degree, not where you end up reading literally 25 books. There have been a couple, but not with TV, I don't think. Even though I'm sure there are some foreign language shows that we've skipped,

we did get to go back in like Chernobyl wasn't feel good and it wasn't multiple seasons, but that was pretty great. Shorzie might be the closest thing I've had this year in experiencing where I'm like, I was aware that this existed and I knew people loved Letterkenny and I knew Letterkenny was like 25 seasons and I was like, I'm not going to do that. But just caught the bug. That's the best is when you just are like, well, now this is what I'm doing. Speaking of Letterkenny, just I want to make sure that Jason Manzook is still listening in minute 60 or whatever of this podcast, it is an interesting thing to be completely, I'm not saying this is a good thing, but to be. completely ignorant of something that is very meaningful. I did an FYC event last week with Reservation Dogs crew and cast and Sterling and

kids. It was really fun. At Vidiots, right? At Vidiates, right? At Vidiates. And, yeah, hey, networks, if I can walk to the event, I will do the event. Gagnedio Horn was on the panel. And she plays the Dear Lady.

And she's awesome as the Dear Lady on Reservation Dog. She was lovely to meet. She was great in the panel. But she made this passing reference, like something. her career. And she's like, you know, and I was on Letterkenny and blah, blah, and I was like, oh, you must be enormously famous to two out of every eight people that I meet or speak to. Right? Yeah, I think Letter Kenny is still a pretty cult thing in the States, but is much bigger in Canada. Yeah, and she is Canadian. I'm not saying that she's like trying to, she's not lying

about having a Canadian job. Like my Canadian girlfriend. Like your Canadian girlfriend. No, that was real. That was a fun little exercise. You know what it made me think we should do? Because you know one of the other things that I'd love to do is not help you week to week with the planning of the podcast, but every so often I'll think of something for down the line. Oh, let's do down the line talk. And what I mean is last year,

we introduced the episode of the year episode. So listeners, no. Yeah. Andy puts it in the work. Which? No, intellectually, charm-wise, performance-wise. Thanks. I laughed at the Dave Matthews thing.

I'm not going to laugh again. You just did. Tell me when you're going to stop and I'll stop doing it. So last year we introduced the episode of the year episode. And I can't wait to do it again this year where we decide what we like the best and we're lucky enough to get like the creator, talent, actors, and we did it for the Bears episode Forks last year.

What if we did, although you watched the other one? I thought it was the other, I thought it was fishes. You walked in and you're like, Evan, Chris. Can we just talk fishes with you guys? I've got ten questions about John Mullinia as an actor. Only ten. But ten bangers. We should do a festivist episode where we do the airing of grievances at the end of the year.

You don't, so you think we're saving our grievances? No, but like... We think we're grievance free otherwise? No, but about the year. I'm always grievancy, but I just mean like we just, in the middle of June, we were like, here's what's missing from TV. Yes. I think that we could do that at the end of the year.

I don't think that this actually was a, here's what's wrong with TV thing. It's just like a, here's an itch I can't scratch right now. You know, like, I don't want you to think that we were, this was not a grievance-laden episode. No. I mean, mostly I was just trying to get you to talk about Austin Powers with me. I honestly, I like Austin Powers. I do. Yeah.

I don't think about it that often. That's why I watched it. I was like, this was culturally huge. Which weird is I think about Borat a lot? Well, that was next. I don't have the DVD. It was in the envelope. But Borat, is Borat more important than Austin Powers?

I don't know. They're also both so old. If Kyah titled the episode that, I bet it would do numbers. Kai, who do you think is more important culturally? Or which film? To me, personally, Austin Powers is more important. Do you find Borat funny? Yeah, I do.

Wait, wait, hold on, I'm in the wrong. So Borat came out in what? Like 2000, what? It was after the goal for it. Think of your adult life? It was 2006, so a mission had been accomplished. Okay, so that came out in 2006, and Austin Powers came out in like 1998. So where is Young Kaya here?

Because I feel like this matters in terms of the larger... I think that it's just like randomly Austin Powers was like very important to me and my family. Like we just like it was an important movie. Did you guys do a lot of Dr. Evil pinky finger stuff? My younger sister did like a great fat bastard impression at the like very young age. What age did she do it? Too young. Too young.

No. I think it's interesting because I don't want to put Kai on the spot here, but I believe Kaya was one years old when the awesome powers film came out and when I got this DVD. My parents showed me it at probably two when I was too young. It was like Kaya's parents showing her. Austin Powers is like Bill showing five-year-old Ben Simmons slap shop. But it makes a difference.

I can't remember where we were going with this. We were going to talk Renfair, which was the thing we were going to talk about on the show. Okay. Renfair is another docuseries from broadly speaking the Safis, correct? Yes, which I didn't know until it was over and I saw their names in the credits and I was like, oh, okay. Obviously, a lot of other talented people working on it. It's a very interesting execution of

what is to me very obviously trying to sort of port the intrigue of a show like succession or of any kind of like who will take over this business there is a quite frankly like somewhat deranged leadership figure in the center of it

in the case of renfares this is about a renaissance fair that takes place in Texas every year it's like the biggest one in the country if not the world it's run by a guy named I'm going to get some of these names somewhat wrong because I was kind of I was You had hockey. You were split screening here with hockey? I was a little bit on autopilot by the time

Renfair came on. But it's this guy named King George, who he's referred to. George, he's late 80s. He's planning on dying in an assisted fashion. Not necessarily. He does say that he's ready to be done with life at 95. He believes he can sort of... He is this central

figure. Then there is a guy named Jeff who is the general manager of the Renaissance Fair and a guy named Louis who is the quote, Lord of Corn, who has a village kind of centered around his kettle corn business in the Renaissance Fair, who's put together an investment package or a bid to buy the Renaissance Fair. So there's got this triangle where it's like, it's very like, you know, Kendall should do it, but maybe Roman will do it.

Louis is trying to buy it. Jeff just wants to be the steward and take over, but he's a little bit over his head. It takes some turns as these safty do, where you start being like, oh, so this old guy really likes being on hinge. When you say Safty Ducks, it's because we like telemarketers was the one that we did. That's right. I should have been clear.

And then by the time you get to the end of the episode, it ends on like this cliffhanger where it's like the first part. I don't know how many episodes. I can only imagine three. I think it's three. Where you get to the end and you're just like, oh, okay, like there's this cliffhanger about whether or not he's going to sell it to the Lord of Corn or whether Jeff is going to come back from this German trip that he's gone on to look at other Renaissance. Fares. It's a wild thing.

I don't know. I'm doing such a detailed to synopsis of this. The point I'd like to make is it is filmed in a remarkable way. It is basically filmed like Succession, frankly, where there are close-ups.

There are moments where they are almost, I couldn't even tell if they were restaging events. So the filmmaker's name is Lance Oppenheim, and he made a documentary for FX called Sperm World that I did not check out. but he is quite young. I believe he is a contemporary of our producer, Kaya.

So I'd love to know whether he's an Austin Powers or Borat person. It... The thing that is... There's two things to say about the show. One is it's very entertaining and I'm glad that we checked it out

and I would like to finish it because it is an insane... Like many good docs, it is a window into an insane alternate universe where the things that matter to these people are not really on my radar at all, but it is absolutely... everything to them. The second thing about it, though, is that is this what docs are now or some

of them? Because it is staged, I mean, aspects of it. It is heightened. It is manipulated. And of course, people will and should say that all docs are to a degree manipulated. But this one, particularly the way it ends, does feel like there was much more shaping. It was almost like a recreation of events. Which I think is maybe appropriate because a Renaissance fair is of itself a performance of history. And Jeff, who's the general manager, takes great pride in being an actor, previously being an actor. So I don't think it probably took much for them to say, now walk around this German fair as if your heart's been ripped out and you're sad about something. Like, I'm sure they were participants in it to a degree that might be.

Yeah, like to give you an example, the character of Jeff or the person, Jeff, is spending 12 hours at this German Renaissance fair. Like he's there from opening to closing. Yes. He tells his wife, if we're shutting this place down, I want to get the full experience. That's like you with the haunted hayride, right? But it would be the equivalent of, I mean, a lot of this first episode hinges on him getting a phone call. And when he gets the phone call, he is in glorious close-up. Yes.

Now, I know you can do crazy things with lenses and maybe like that, but it just felt like almost. The whole thing is definitely staged or set up. I don't know how you'd want to put it. But there are also moments in this, particularly with George, where like he is 100% just being an authentic, lunatic self in front of the cameras. You know, I can't imagine he was advised to say some of the things he says about his dating life just off the cuff. Yeah.

I think that I was struck by, and at times, uncomfortable collision between, and I'm just here to observe and, oh, my God, look what I got. Yeah, you and I both have a little bit of an allergy of like, look at these freaks, right? Yes, but I also, I don't even know if it's an allergy. I don't watch enough docs to understand where my moral line is between like, this is just set up and performed like a reality show or this is, they were just fly on the wall. They were just there.

Yeah, there was something about telemarketers where I think maybe the directorial voice or like the filmmaker's intent was a lot more explicit. Well, he's also like, I was there and I filmed this and this is my friend. And we talked about this when telemarketers came out where it was like, this was just definitely the beginning of the era of like guys just being like, I'm going to film my friends for 12 hours today and see what happens. Yeah, and something.

It was the kind of the culture of their birth jackass. It was like very much out of skateboarding videos where it was just like, let's just film each other all day. I will say that I did have a take that feels very like Hollywoody, which is like 30 minutes into this. I was like I would watch the scripted version of the show. Yes, me too. I thought about that.

And I was kind of surprised. I was like, this seems like it could just be the next season of gemstones. It could be gemstones or it could be, serious because the Texas part of it is also just wild because this guy, George, who founded the Renfair, like owns a town. Incorporated a town around it, of which he is the mayor and it has its own police force and stuff. So that's just a wild detail.

So there's a lot there. And for three episodes, like, in an episode where we're talking about what we're missing from TV, I do appreciate that HBO documentary division is providing us with things like this every so often that they're entertaining. Yeah. It's been great podcast. with you. Kaya, how worried was Chris about this podcast?

Maybe he still should be. We don't know how it will be received. He said he felt anxiety about it. Yeah. But look at him now. He sang on Mike. We have a new bit. We spoke our truths.

Right? We have a whole new bit. There's a new bit. I think it's going to be good. So for Thursday. A lot. Yeah. Ackleate, first two episodes?

Yeah, we're going to do Ackleight. And for hands emoji, we can get to hacks. Yeah, I think we should get to hacks. When is Thursday? That's three days from now. No, I knew that. Two days from, really. I mean, when you consider that today is already over.

Today's already over. I mean, the sun will come out in seven hours for 10 minutes, but it'll be fine. Thanks to Kaya McMullen, the world's biggest Austin Powers fan for producing us today. And we will be back on Thursday, chalk full of TV. Best in the Biz. Shagadelic, right? Sky left.