The Watch - When HBO Max Becomes Just Max. Plus, Bridget Everett on ‘Somebody Somewhere’ Season 2.

Episode Date: April 20, 2023

Chris and Andy talk about how HBO Max will soon become just Max and what it means when a prestige TV brand gets diluted (1:00). Then they talk about the latest episode of ‘Top Chef’ (35:08) and the second season of ‘100 Foot Wave’ (47:02) before Bridget Everett joins Chris to talk about the upcoming second season of her show ‘Somebody Somewhere’ (57:09). Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Guest: Bridget Everett Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Sean Fennessey, one of the hosts of the Prestige TV podcast. HBO's Barry is back for a fourth and final season. And that means I'll be back recapping the show with co-creator and star Bill Hater to dive deep on the themes, scenes, and major moments in the series. Bill will provide insight into how every episode was made and why it's ending. New Prestige TV Barry recaps will go live every Sunday night when the episode ends. So make sure you're subscribed to the Prestige TV podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Did you know about Wurteachts? one in three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis,

which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you? Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away. Trimfaya, guselcomab, taken by injection, is a prescription medicine for adults with moderate to severe plaques psoriasis, who may benefit from taking injections or pills or phototherapy, and for adults with active psoriotic arthritis. serious allergic reactions and increased risk of infections and liver problems may occur.

Before a treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or if you need a vaccine. Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimfaya. Tap this ad to learn more about Trimfaya, including important safety information. This episode is brought to you by Brooks. Running connects us to a rush of energy that flows through our world.

The cheers of friends that unlock a new gear within us, the intersection of interest that inspires a run crew, the support that gets you over the finish line. Connection is why we move forward and what inspires us to keep going. Let's run there. Learn more at brooksrunning.com. I need supports to have to clear the run. Stand up and walk now.

Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at the ringer.com and joining me in the studio, the true detective of the day country. It's in Greenwald. Which country do you prefer? If you had to choose. Do you?

Yeah. Are you a creature of the night country? Yeah, whenever you're like, I need my vitamin D, I'm like, not me, bro. That was a good me imitation. That is literally how I feel on the inside. So I welcome that. Great to see you. We're recording this on a Wednesday.

Joining us on the podcast today, I had Bridget Everett from somebody somewhere come by. she chatted with me for a little while about season two, which is delightful. That show obviously holds a special place in our heart. Andy, it's coming back on the 23rd. I recommend everybody check it out. If you haven't, you can watch the first season in a weekend.

It's a lovely, lovely, lovely, lovely show. And Bridget was awesome. I'm so glad she came by the watch. It's also so glad I'm so glad that you came by the watch. Yeah, I thought I would today. You know? I had a real nice window in the schedule. Many people are asking.

Uh-huh. Guys, what's your schedule? What's the watch's release schedule? It's been up and down. It has been erratic. International travel. Illness. I prefer to say I had a meeting with big bacteria.

I want to let everybody know that we back up. Yeah? So we're going to do succession for Sunday night. Yeah, I think so. I mean, that's the plan. That's the plan. Make a plan. God laughs.

And then we'll have me our next Thursday show, and I think our next Thursday show might be a bit special as well. I'm excited about that. But much like the way Bill treats rewatchable I don't want to give too much away about it. That's right. How are you doing?

I'm okay. I'm glad you mentioned the rewatchables. I think that there's a lot of crossover probably between the people who enjoy that audio program in this one. So I don't want to step on something people already know. But one of the hallmarks of that show, Chris, is that you do your Wayne Jenkins imitation. I do.

And it's really remarkable. It's really a John Bernthal invitation. I am not sure how Wayne Jenkins actually talked. The real Wayne Jenkins? Should we bring him out? We've got him in stew number two. It's a John Bernthal doing Wayne Jenkins from the criminally underseen. Although I think you alone are carrying the torch for more viewership.

It was my number one show of that year, I believe. The HBO, it was not. It was number two, number two. Nice try. And or it was number one. We own the city. And you do this imitation on demand. You would be a great task force cop just jumping out of his car and be like, we own this city.

Hi, hi guys. Some news. We own the city. Anyway, it's really remarkable, Chris. You do it on demand. You put yourself into these movies. And this week you did a really remarkable... I don't know how you do.

I don't know how they press the button and you just deliver. Yeah. You did Wayne Jenkins in Alien. And they made a video clip. Mm-hmm. And it was sent to Johnny Bernthal himself who said it was pretty good, actually.

Yeah. This was a great moment for me as your friend. It's all... I feel like I'm headed for retirement. With that bit? Yeah, no, not with that bit, personally. Oh, we all are. It's like, I don't know how many more mountains I have to climb.

After that. Yeah, we did the three heat with Michael Mann. Yeah. John Bernthal has recognized the Wayne Jenkins invitation. You pod with Tarantino on the regs. Yeah. I don't know. Where do I go from here?

I mean, I think we could just sort of keep cranking this out. Yeah, so let's talk about HBO. I'm a little worried that we're a little too cranked on HBO today. Right. But it's an important company. It is. And it's an important canary in the coal, as to like where television's going.

So we're going to talk today about the transformation of HBO into Max. Well, the transformation of HBO Max into Max. HBO remains HBO. Sure. So explain this to me.

Yeah, I mean, I think this was announced or this was, this wasn't a surprise. Let's put it this way. And the news, there was a big press conference and almost staged performance last week out here in Hollywood, California, United States of America. basically ever since the Warner Brothers Discovery merger happened,

it felt like Feta Compli that the two streaming services would merge, that Discovery Plus and HBO Max would become one, because otherwise what's the point of accruing all of those assets? It's worth noting that the conversation about what HBO Max was and what it was doing predates even that merger, I think, because from the beginning it was a little bit confusing. It was, are these two separate programming entities plus friends? is this HBO just expanding its purview and also has reality shows now like Fuck Boy Island?

Unclear. As many people had noted when we would talk about it in the past, that pearl clutching might have been a little bit inside baseball. But regardless, here we are. This was the big announcement. I feel like we almost got a sneak preview of it because when HBO head Casey Boyes came in, we noted that he very much seemed to be bifurcating his brain in that he was basically here as the head of programming for HBO. a storied job that others have had before him that has had a pretty steady purvy, right?

Like programming high-quality stuff on Sunday nights. And then he would refer to what we're doing with Max. Right. That was a sneak preview because the name of this new combined service is... Max. Thanks. Is Max.

I'm going to tell you what David Zazlov said. This is David Zazlov, the... Discovery, if you will. Warner Brothers Discovery CEO. Right. He said, this is our time. This is our chance. Yep.

this is our rendezvous with destiny. Did he really say these things? Yeah, that last bit is a little close to John Malcovic and in the line of fire for, I think, most people's taste. But here's from the deadline article summing all this up. So I'll just use this because it's a little bit more clear than anything. I could say Max will be the streaming destination for Max and HBO originals. Yep.

Warner Brothers Films, the DC Universe, the Wizarding World of Harold Potter, and kids content along with programming across food home. reality lifestyle and documentaries from leading brands including HGTV Food Network, Discovery Channel, TLC, ID, and the Big Dogs at Magnolia. And my guy Chip Gaines buying out the bar at Larry McMurtry's used bookstore. Yep. Read about that. And then they also went on and announced a absolute Buddy Ryan blitz of shows that are

going to be coming in the next, I'd say, 12 to 18 months. Across all the services, but ultimately available on Max. And if you have HBO Max now, it will become Max in a short time. And there's a different tiered pricing plan, et cetera, et cetera. So I think we should talk about... I love getting different tiers in my pricing plans. Do you? Yeah.

Do you ever... Like, do you have variance in your tiering? I just went through this thing the other day because I, for some reason, I'm on a spaghetti Western kick. And a lot of spaghetti westerns are available on Tubey. Okay. And then they are also available on the screen picks channel through Prime Video, which costs $2.99 a month.

and 2B has ads So you're watching 2B and you're just like Man, this spaghetti Western is cooking I wonder what's going to happen with this revolution And then you're like, God damn it, I'm sitting through an O-Zem pic ad Whereas, you know, you can just drop three bucks a month And get them all unvarnished Yeah

So that's what I'm doing. I'm going out of pocket But I'm thinking a lot about tears I don't think I'm a fast guy, capital F-A-S-T No, I think that ship has sailed for us I've been broken, I can't do it Unless I'm watching Sun's Clippers, I just can't watch commercials anymore Also, how much time do we have left, really? And we should be spending it.

With that, let's throw to an ad. I think, let's talk about big picture, then let's talk about the specific programming. Does this matter? Does it matter that HBO is sort of going underneath a larger headline? I'm going to zag. Because I did notice there was, I'm in a Zaz. I think that there was some coverage or feedback or think pieces basically being like, oh my God, this brute in the China shop, Zazlov, doesn't understand the,

majesty of what he owns. And he's trying to hide HBO inside this much larger monstrosity. And my response to that is, gentlemen, I disagree. Not to assume any knowledge of David Zazlov's thinking, because I personally

would have championed Bat Girl. I've always been a fan of that franchise and character. It's really more that I think this accomplishes two goals. One, it may have been Pearl Clutching, but I did think the HBO brand value was diminished by being out in front of HBO Max and people being like Titans as an HBO show.

I don't know how often that happened. I don't know if that mattered. But I do think this allows Casey to program HBO the way he clearly wants to, which is as if it's still a cable channel on Sunday nights. It isn't being diminished in terms of its budgets. It isn't being diminished in terms of it. I would suggest that given like the shows that we saw clips of, if in anything, it seems like they have found a perfect harmony of like big, big blockbuster spending on like really, really cool, important stories. Yes. And I think that here's a question for you and for our listeners.

What has narrow casting gotten anyone in the last 10 years? It simply isn't the way the business is going. And also it seems it isn't the business people want. Like to your point about tiered pricing, like I very happily subscribed to the Criterion channel. There are people who subscribe to Shudder and AMC and all these smaller things that do one thing well. But we're noticing even the limits of that with, we're noticing the limits of that even with Disney Plus, which is the most hyper-specific, I think, of any of these larger competitors. And yet, where's the growth? Where's the potential for growth? What are they

going to do with Hulu? What are they going to do for adult subscribers? Like, we're starting to see even that company chafe against the limits of what seemed like a very, very intelligently curated. I think the sixth window should be of state prison. Don't you think? I think it should be Disney, Star Wars, Pixar, Marvel, Oz. Right? But all this is to say, we've been talking for weeks, if not months, about how everybody just wants to make TV 1997 again through science or magic.

Casting a wide net is what Netflix has done, you know, you could argue, critically whether that's worked, but I don't think you can argue in terms of numbers. They announced more growth today. Small, modest growth, but they are still growing. Their stock price fell. I don't know Ben Bernanke. That's not the bottom line for me in my core constituency. I think that having a very generic name, remember when radio stations all became Jack? I'm Jack, and I play songs you like. Yeah. Like doing that with television, which is what Max is fine with me. First of all, make fun of the name.

it's better than all the other names. Right. All the names are bad. So calling it Max. Are you a big fan of Peacock? Yeah, exactly. Like where is your standing in this argument, sirs? Second, like that's just, it seems like a smarter play for long-term success to just almost

take one step back from the hyper specificity and be like, you're going to find a lot of stuff here. And this is worth your $12 to $15 a month because they're competing with Netflix, which is all of TV. And they're completing with. Apple, which has all of the money, and Amazon, which has the rest of the money. So to be even remotely relevant,

I think you have to try to make yourself as big as possible, which I tried to do with steroids last weekend, and I was told recently those are different kinds of steroids. Did you see Barry Bonds at the Kings game, by the way? No. Yeah, he looked great. Do you take the half-quart shot? No, he didn't see.

He took a half-court shot from Golden State and made it into... No, he looked great, though. Good friend. I was always a Bond guy. No ill effects, huh? The body's fine. Resilience. I think it just regressed to like normal size neck. Yeah.

I don't really know what's going to happen here. I like what you're saying about the idea that it's TV bozos, just put it all in one place where I can get to it and stop calling it, you know, random different things and giving me five different doors that I have to have a key for to find the thing I want. This service goes live on May 23rd, and I would like to in the future do an episode with you

where you and I just do a little bit of consumer reports on these players because I think it's an under-commented-on aspect of this and if you were about to possibly double if not triple the size of the library of this place with this influx of discovery content I think they're doing something like 60, 70, 80% of discovery. It's like they're curating what they're bringing over. But I still think that there is an element of like, I can't find Barry on the homepage kind of thing.

going on here. And I also think that that player is a little bit jammy, which I think they would even cop to, you know? I think you're describing a surrah from the fucking Sonoma Coast. Look, I just want to get into the nuts and bolts of how we watch these things, right?

I think you're also trying to dig yourself out from being like Amazon Prime Video, no notes. The other week, you're like, the finest U.X in the game. My man Doug worked minutes on sketching this one out. You know? The problem is that he probably worked like six years

It was just like, what people want is for this video player to be hidden. Yeah, at all times. And if you started watching something, t-he-he-he, I hit it. Yeah. If you scroll across the screen, 800 factoids from IMDB come out. This is a mischievous player. Yeah. It plays with you.

I just, I think that your point is well taken. I've seen some concern that HBO as a brand will be diminished by being underneath the Max umbrella or is it just going to be a vertical inside of Max as a streamer. Right. I really don't know how all this stuff is going to work out. I just know that we've been here before where we start worrying about how corporate machinations will impact what we see on the screen, and it hasn't come to pass. I think the worry part, yeah, I don't think that really exists here. I think that baked into all of this is also our bias and probably the people who tune in to listen to us, which doesn't, which has a hard time accepting the fact that we might be topsy-turvy here.

That, like, there are probably a larger number of Americans who want the discovery content than want the HBO content. Yes. And however, Zazlav knows what he bought. I mean, he did buy it with purpose. I'm not trying to defend him or cape up for him, because I think he's made a lot of weird decisions and generally this kind of corpo,

what's it called? Corpocracy. Like, running things through corporations is not going to be great for art. I do not think on the heel, as he said, a couple days before the strike. But, I mean, there's no version of Max where later this year the front page isn't House of the Dragon. Oh, I mean, let's do,

four years from now. And I'll tell you what they've got in the hopper here. So aside from the shows that we're obviously going to spend probably the majority of the next 12 months talking about in some ways, the regime, which comes from Will Tracy and Stephen Frears and it stars Kate Winslet

as a, I think, kind of intentionally vague European monarch. She's the queen of Secovia, I believe. It kind of seems like that, but it's like in that sort of pan-British kind of like that's that's for Europe I did just rewatch

Grand Budapest Hotel which had also had one of these fake countries where everyone just speaks English I feel like we should do a power rankings of fake Eastern European countries. Obviously Socovia would have been number one until the events you know that we are Until it was dropped from a great height

never forget but anyway please continue That looks incredible it seems to have an incredibly like assured barbed dark heart black comedy sense of humor that looks amazing. It's Kate Winslet, Matthias Shon-Arts, Martha Plimpton. Wait, wait, I'm just jumping in here. Are you recapping this or are we talking to show-by-show here? Because you know I don't step on your recaps anymore. I'm not, what am I recapping? I'm just giving like, some bullet points.

I thought you were going to be like, here are the 12 things we're going to watch next year. And then you'd cede the floor and I'd be like, okay, so the regime. So the regime. You want to talk about that? Yeah, let's talk about the regime. It's like the great succession. This is why you're the best. And I'm just, a mule who drags this show up the mountain every day on his back. How many times do you think Kate is going to come on the podcast to talk about it? It's not jinx it. What about Winslet Burnfall Group Pod?

I feel like they would get along. I do too. I really do. I really do. She should go in real ones on Bernthal's pod. I think that would be great. We've also got the sympathizer, which is, if you had told me in 2008 or 2010, that Robert Johnny Jr. was going to be playing four different parts, but not the lead in this

adaptation of a beloved novel about the end of the Vietnam War and about the United States afterwards. And Spycraft and Spicraft and everything. I mean, I can't tell you how excited I am for this. It's directed by Park Train Look. It's Director Park. Yeah. Back to TV.

And Don McKellar worked on this. Like, I just, I can't believe it. It's A24 and Downey produced it. But it looks astonishing. He did Little Drummer Girl, too. You remember on TV. Also incredible. Do you have still...

So I don't know if our listeners know this. That, like, during college, you were famous for always picking up the crying of Lot 49 by Thomas Pynchon and then putting it back down. I haven't read this. No, no. The reason I bring it up is for the last five or six years, the sympathizer has been number one with a bullet on my... Man, that's what I should read next list.

Yes. So maybe we can remedy that by the time the show comes out. But I didn't know if you still maintain lists like that in your life. Sometimes I get pretty close to... So there are some things where I'm like, I think I think I'm... I know, I know Mal played Last of Us before Last of Us came on, and I know that I, like, there are sometimes where I'm like, I'm going to read this book before the show

or the movie comes out to kind of get the full picture. But for this, I'll probably read it contemporaneously with the show or like after the show. You know, just because like I'm so close to the show coming out now. This is the one that I'm most excited about. Although we're not that close. It said 2024. Oh, it did.

Okay, because there was a few that were getting kicked. The one that I'm most excited about probably is true detection of night country. Let's talk about it. This is the continuation of Nick Pizzolato's originally was his series in the first three seasons. But Issa Lopez and Barry Jenkins are bringing this version to the screen with Jody Foster at the center. Barry Jenkins did not direct this. No, he's just executive producing it. And Jody Foster plays a police officer or sheriff in Alaska as the long night is settling in the 30 days of darkness,

which you may have seen from that legendary Josh Hartnett vampire movie. 30 days of night. To me, that looked like a vacation for you. I'm sure that looked like hell on her. I'm really interesting. They're like battling vamps, you know, in a 30-day night. As soon as the sun drops, you come alive.

This looks rad. I think you can feel connective tissue to the earlier seasons, especially in the occult pagan iconography that they featured in the trailer and some of the like, you know, like her talking in an interrogation room.

Talking about the past, talking about the present, talking to the future. But it also seems like it has a different vibe. Really? I was going to say I thought they carried over the mirthful tone from the previous three. I don't need berth in every one of my shows. I agree. I think honestly, what struck me was how how much vibe shopping it seemed to be doing from a lot of other recent successful things. Like Northwater, which is a show we loved that definitely is aiming for a larger audience than that. the terror

you know the idea and what was the other show the head was that the other show the head yeah there is cold on the rig too on Amazon Plus

there's a lot of like real icy dark stuff like that's a that's well-trod terrain you can see the bootprints in the snow but I am very open-minded with this creative team

certainly with Jody Foster I think it look I mean we should also give a lot of credit to whoever's cutting these trailers for HBO because we don't know what state these these series are in.

I don't mean like they're, they need to be fixed with reshoots. No, no, no, but they might not be done yet. I just mean they might, yeah, they might not even have all the stuff. And they look great, they look compelling, they look wholly realized.

And I'm all, I'm here for taking the bones of true detective and giving other people a couple spins at it. Yeah. You know, and I think that the challenge of this isn't so much taking over

from Pizzolato, it's deciding what you carry over, what makes it still True Detective without his unique brand of off-putting machismo. That's why I'm surprised that nobody's picked up on my offer to reimagine sex in the city with a bunch of guys. At night. No, in the country. Sex in the country.

Oh, that's interesting. But with dudes, you know? I'm listening. Okay, so there's those three that are very watch-friendly titles. One of the reasons why I think that this new announcement, this new, this new shell corp that they've got going, this new TV shell corp works, is because of the preponderance of IP stuff that they are throwing at the wall here. It's like not quite HBO, not quite HBO Max, but like where else do you put it? Yeah. But it's also

going to probably be what is the what makes or breaks this whole thing. And those are the following things. A Night of the Seven Kingdoms, the Hedge Knight. So that is the new Game of Thrones adaptation that would be about Dunkin Egg. And this was the one... Which I say is if I've read it, but I don't know what But this is the one we had circled because we had been led to believe that Stephen Conrad, who had done Patriot, was working on this. He no longer seems to be involved, which is... It's like Ryan Condal thing, isn't it? Which is disappointing.

It does seem like, much like characters in the television series Game of Thrones, people seem to be consolidating power within the house. Yeah. Which, you know, that's just something to think about. I'm not going to get pre-upset about that. Are you doing Brian Windhorst fingers while you do that? Well, we're not on TikTok right now, so no one will ever know. There's also going to be a Max original comedy series derived from the Big Bang theory. Derived from.

Right. There is going to be a drama series based on the Conjuring films. There is going to be several things kind of coming out of the It Stephen King universe, especially Welcome to Derry, which I think is already in production. A lot of meat on that bone, do you think? As an It guy? I'm a dude who loves Maine. Yeah.

And I like that small town. but with creepy bones vibe. It itself, I love the first one. I thought the second one was kind of silly. Do I need to get to the sort of origins of Pennywise? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, how many times can the Pink Lady rise? Did you watch Castle Rock?

We watched a little bit of Castle Rock. Do you know what I mean? Like there's this Greece show on Paramount? Oh, yeah. I'm sure it might be good. I'm sure the Greece super fans like it. Like, I'm happy. for them, but

real happy for you. But it bums me out. It bums me out. And I still have that kind of reaction. I'm like, we're doing a couple more it origins. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

What else? I guess Harry Potter. That's the big one. Yeah. And, you know, I have to say, look, so recently I saw someone, someone on the Facebook group resurfaced something I had written 10 years which this is going to shock people.

It was a little pessimistic at the state of the industry. I was like, it's over in 2013. That's what you love about me. I'm not afraid of the big statements. I bring that up because I'm starting to feel, I do feel a little bit like that again. It's not just the industry pessimism.

We'll have plenty of time to do that when... Do you feel like this is mostly because of the strike? When I'm half out of work for the next three months? That is a real thing, and it's a huge bummer. But it's something that I just want to flag. I'm not going to over it. overreact. But I think we are in entering into a different stage. And it is no longer about fandom wins, you know, about like servicing the fans and giving people what they think, giving

fans what studio executives think fans want, whether it's the Snyder cut or whether it's just, you know, a hundred more Marvel TV shows or Lord of the Rings or more Game of Thrones that just sort of slavishly just copies what George R. Martin wrote and puts it on the screen. To me, it's a little bit more last of us, which was a good show that we enjoyed. But a lot of the discourse and the coverage of it was people sort of nodding when the show shot for shot recreated the video game. Right. Like, good job. Right. You have met my expectations by doing what I expected of you. And to me, that's what this Harry Potter thing is. Now, they have to develop something. It's one of the reasons Zazlav bought the company was the rights to do something with the Harry Potter universe.

Secondly, Joanne Rowling controls all of it. Love her or hate her, tweet at her or don't. She is in charge of absolutely every part of this. And it's not like you can walk in and sell her on like a totally out there take on it. She's not going to do it. She is protecting the brand. She's raking in billions of dollars. So a basically 10-year television show that's just doing the movies again,

but with all the bits that very, very, very long movies left out is the safest. is the safest play and in some ways may be the only option for a TV show but my soul died a little bit now I'm not a big Harry Potter fan my older daughter is

so I'm sure this is gonna be very exciting for people who love this stuff it's very complicated for people love it too yeah because a lot of people love it from the movies yeah and they grew up with the movies and I think they have a complicated relationship with Rowling now and they do

which I don't want to speak on and that's you know that's for people who do have these relationships with her and with this property but I have zero I think I've seen like one of two movies and I've never read the books. I just feel like it's some real dark end of IP capitalism dead end shit because there's no writer. And what kind of, I mean, you're going to get rich off this, I guess, but you're just going to be, you know, cutting and pasting scenes for 10 years just so that there's a filmed record of it.

It's kind of like the live action, you know, like the Hollywood Reporter feed is filled with two things right now. as we're recording on Wednesday. One, Lions Gates making a Twilight TV show. Good. Let's do that one again. And the rest is, like, Courtney B. Vance

cast in the Lilo and Stitch movie as this character. So he's going to wear sunglasses. Which character? I forget the guy's name. Do you not watch that? Oh, I've seen that movie like 19 times. Okay.

But, you know, specific names, I get vibes for that movie. It's just, this isn't making new shit, guys. Like, this isn't creative. Yeah, I don't know. There's part of me that wants to push back against you just as like a kind of

as a counterbalance as counterweight. There's part of me that wants to do the it was ever thus. Like how is, like are we talking about, we're talking about an industry that has been beholden to its corporate owners or its shareholders for a very long time.

We're probably way more, we probably know too much and not enough at the same time. Like we're so keyed in, we read deadline, these people, we get these vibes, we see the things that are getting put into development or put into production. Every other story seems to be like a fancy new take on this fucking board game. You know, like, it doesn't, I don't, it doesn't fill me with the wonder of 70s American cinema for sure. Yeah. But on the other hand, I just feel like a lot of this stuff winds up being

oriented around gusing stock prices as much as possible. And yeah, it's not to say that I doubt that we'll ever see Harry Potter or that this 10 year project could be 10 years in the making before it even hits our airwaves to say nothing of like what it should show it's going to be to kind of navigate the art the artist and everything else

I just sometimes I wonder like I kind of felt this way about like the Kathy Kennedy stuff where she was like there was never a Kevin Feige movie and like that was all a fake and I'm like just being gaslit well so you guys are just making these announcements so that fucking Wall Street goes nuts for you for five days and keeps your head above

water. And then when they're like, where's the Harry Potter decade-long series? Or where are the other- Or what are you doing with this property? Yeah. Didn't you have nine movies in development? How come it's been five years since you put one out? Like that's- You are right. I think we need to like absolutely just change hats and become Jim Kramer, you know, and these are stock stories. This is not creative stories. And we are talking about broad strokes, a company that is also making somebody somewhere and also making industry season three right now in Wales. Like we aren't being robbed. We have a lot. But there is a larger theme that, yeah, it is, there's the shadow of the strike, which is making me a little bit dark, but we're just making people too comfortable. You know,

it's just too easy and it's too comfortable and everybody's kind of fallen in line with it. You know, I think just in terms of, this even gets bigger because we're still doing kind of a macro, monocultural podcast at a moment when that might not even exist anymore. We're reaching for those moments and we're reaching for that argument that there's something to counterbalance with. They're still good movies. They're still good TV shows. But... But we did a podcast six weeks ago about Succession coming back. And you were

like, this is it. This will be the last good time on TV. And now we just got three trailers for three shows on the same network that were fucking like, I can't believe we're getting this. But none of them are ongoing series. The Succession thing was specifically that. And shout out to Mickey and Conrad. I did not mention industry coming back. And again, I don't know if this

is a sign of Warner Brother Discovery's highly evolved U.X or not. But Every time I turn on that service, it's just like people are watching industry. And that just makes me feel good. Yeah. Maybe they are. I hope they are.

There are good shows. Yes. But in terms of what's driving the cart of the business on every level, creatively, financially, was taking up people's time, what the job of an executive, or especially a development executive even is anymore. Is it – and I probably said these words 10 years ago on this podcast when I wrote that piece. about it being the zombie age of TV that like, oh, the job of a good TV executive, development executive, is now just like gently carrying the fragile box of IP and trying to put it in hands to keep his or her job safe. I probably said that 10 years ago. It's still the case. And that's a bummer. But it's just this is the way things are going until it's not. Yeah. I mean, the problem is is that there is no such thing as like independent underground television or if there is, I don't know about it.

Whereas I think in film, at least there is the illusion of it, you know, that there, and I think now it's like even independent underground cinema is like completely like been subsumed with like various like financing arms and like hedge funds we want to get involved with like this and then like these things get sold off to like the streaming bidders or whatever. But the idea that like we are somehow, we have fallen from grace in television. Yeah. I think we're in Eden. I think we've gotten lucky. We, we, I would not have wanted to do this podcast with you. at any other time in television history. Wow.

I don't think so. Musti TV would have been fun. But would it? Did you guys see what, like that fucking monkey on Friends? That's crazy. Just a couple 18-year-olds being like,

Tarantino's directing ER. That's sick. No, no, no. Did you tape it last night? Nope. So, no show today. Sorry, I had homework. No, I am of two minds.

I agree with what you're saying. And I don't, I mean, I do think it is kind of my job to be negative sometimes. And I naturally feel that way. I guess there's just a couple other things, which is to say... I think it's how it's organized. I think the dream of massive expansion and investment in television for me is somebody somewhere.

That's not my favorite show of the year, but you should be able to use some of the largests to make these things. Something should get smaller. It doesn't all need to get bigger. And I'm still waiting to see what, if any, ripple effect, the bear has. from last year. Because I just don't, I don't understand why all of these networks don't have three or four swings.

Maybe they do, you know, and maybe they're just waiting to let for the strike or whatever, but like, maybe they do, but I also think that, like, there are things that happen and then because everything feels like,

it's all being broadcast on this, like, flattened, chaotic plane of existence where you have to, like, there is no time when this thing is on, It doesn't feel like Swarm is being spotlit by Amazon because it's not like they're putting it on on Thursday night or they're not putting it on Sunday night

or they don't seem to be. No, it's just there. But that show is fucking crazy that they made that. You know what I mean? Like, it's crazy that somebody somewhere is on the air. It is like a really exciting time. It's just that it also feels like that and that it's like above it is 100 feet of shit.

Yep. And I think the one thing that you're sort of like maybe reacting, to aside from the strike is like there was a feeling that HBO we're going to talk about another HBO show that is not your usual star led drama in a few minutes where you're just like man this is where the good stuff goes

don't get Dr. Pimple Popper in my good stuff and I don't think that that's going to really feel that way or be that way I don't feel like taking it all the way back to what you said I don't have any even fake concern troll worry about HBO it's more TV in general or within Max but the Harry Potter thing just bum me out

because I want people to be And it's the same tone of voice you hear now when I talk about Star Wars or anything or Marvel. Like, I just want this stuff to be better. I want people to be pushing things. And it can be. We saw Andor. It can be. Yeah. And that's the most damning thing of all. You're right. It's not because the lesson from Andor isn't, you know, we like, Guardian of the Galaxy is fun. I think Guardians of the Galaxy 3 is going to be fun.

Yeah. I'm excited to see it. But that's different. Andor was full stop good. And so this stuff can be good. And I wish they were trying harder. And that when you say from the beginning that we are going to be faithful to people's vision for something, that's just a recipe for trouble. I agree with you. Why don't we talk about some stuff that's on right now that's giving us joy?

Yeah. How about that? Sure. We'll be putting this episode out on Thursday. So Top Chef will be going up the evening of our podcast. So we haven't seen the most recent, the new Top Chef. Yes. We've watched the most recent one.

Which was that downnabby. We could just speak generally about it. I imagine that people are either watching Top Chef or they're not. So we can spoil it if you want. Do you think we should spoil it? Do you like Tom? Do I like him? Yeah.

Like personally? Yeah. Like you asking. No, not like would you fucking hang out with Tom? But like, what do you? I find Tom, I find that this season is easily the most engaged and excited I've been about this show in a long time. Especially early in the season.

Yes. And I think part of it is because so many different chefs from so many different backgrounds, cooking at so many different ways at such a high level that even when a guy like Tom kind of emerges as like a little bit of a heel, it's not like he can't cook. Yeah, and sometimes you forget that. And then you see him doing all this while. Sometimes Tom forgets that because he's like, it's time to make tomato salad.

Yes. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. First of all, the main thing is, God, these people know how to make this show. And you'd think that, I'm sure, behind the scenes, and I feel like Gail alluded to this when we were talking, like it's going to be a big undertaking for them to go out of the country for the first time, et cetera, et cetera. They just know how to do this so, so well, getting in incredibly high-level judges,

for the most part, very interesting and compelling challenges, and then casting the shit out of it. And it's really interesting to see, without question, the highest level of cooking that the show has ever had throughout its run. Yeah. You know, the finales tend to really focus up and tighten up, and then you have really great stuff. But everybody on this was a winner or a finalist.

So it was really good from the show. the beginning. And then seeing the ways that the nature of the game does win out, right? In that, like, even veterans can get in their own head. Yeah. Even people who can cook on a Michelin Star level might not remember how to make a sandwich or just lose gas at the wrong time. Yeah, like, I was, I was riding for begonia. I loved her. And her cooking was totally unique. You know, she just, like, she fell down, like, she mistimed her stuff. Like, yeah. I, I, I, I was riding for Bagonia. I, I, I, I was, I, I, I was riding. I, I, I, I, I was I think largely it's just been an incredible season. It's been revitalizing season.

I think the show can run for another 20 years after this. Because the last few years have been so, like, we've been commending them for rolling with the punches and for adjusting and making do. This blows the whole thing out of the word. I think they've gotten back to a certain purity of purpose after reinventing the show itself. So I think that, like, what I mean by purity of purpose

is, like, the challenges, like you said, for the most part, I think are like cool, interesting tests of a chef's skills and ability to plan. They are not like, welcome to England. We're sponsored today by Chipotle, so you're going to make a burrito that can be shipped back to like Santa Clarita, California and enjoyed by it all. Like, it's all like, let's do a spin on pub food. Let's do a spin on tea. Let's do a spin on this.

Like, let's talk about like where we are, but also feel free to like push and do different things with where we are. And I just think, I find it so fascinating. I'm obviously, like, I love England, so it's really interesting to see them interact with the city and with the country. But I think it's just been a top-notch season. I think there have been only a couple, a couple off-key things. I think the thing you were alluding to, which is, I guess they were doing like a two-track last chance kitchen. Like a couple weeks of it, someone gets to come back, and they'll run it again for a couple weeks and someone will get to come back. And then they just did something for folks who don't remember that where a regular episode of

Top Chef ended. And rather than saying, pack your knives and go to one of the chefs, Padma took the two bottom chefs, Tom and Sylvia, and had them then go to Last Chance Kitchen, so in a separate kind of episode. And then it was Last Chance Kitchen was actually, in fact, to get back on Top Chef immediately. And then the loser was going to Last Chance Kitchen. Yes, and they had also done the finale of the first round of Last Chance Kitchen was on the show. Yes.

And that finale was pretty infuriating. Was that Dale? It was Dale versus Bologna doing a pastry tower in like an hour for a T service, which is just, that's kind of bullshit. Yeah, but Dale, I mean, I love Bagonia, but she was like, I'm going to go galaxy brain on this. And Dale was like, I just got to make sure it's done. You're right about that. And maybe that ultimately was what the challenges. but up to that point,

they're treating these people like the, you know, the supposed geniuses they are. And she's just like, I'm not here to cook fucking Eclayers. And I agree with that. And one of the things generally I like about the show is they don't do that to people. Sure.

It's not gotcha. It's not like you need to be able to make a perfect meringue, even though that's not what you do. It's like, we're going to give you a chance to bring what you do to a larger stage with what we're asking for. Something interesting is happening with Survivor right now, where a lot of the people on Survivor

are Survivor experts. They've actually got a kid this year from NASA who's like, I built 3D models of every puzzle they've ever had on Survivor and just practiced it for a year. Wow. And there's part of me that's like,

that's cool, it's interesting to watch, but it's also breaking the game because there's no actual like, there's no spectrum of personalities anymore. It's like everybody is trying to play the perfect game of Survivor. It's not just like a guy who shows up

and it's just like, fuck it. Like, I'm just going to say what I think. or maybe I will lie to this person or whatever. And I don't think that that has quite infected top chef, although I do think that, I think Buddha's mentioned a couple of times practicing. That's what I was going to say.

Buddha is the one. But look, Begonia knew she was going to England. She should practice tea service. Like, that was, high tea was going to be a challenge. I guess, but like an hour to make 32 eclares plus tea sandwiches, yes. The baking part was kind of a bummer. Yeah. But I like to, you know, earlier in the episode,

like in the season, Tom was like, I don't make that. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And then they didn't know how to make sandwiches. That was... Just put like stuff on the outside of the sandwich. Yeah, they really...

That was so weird. Yeah. I mean, they... That was Tom and Sylvia did that. They both did that. Yeah. They were both like, let's put a little extra sauce. I think they didn't understand.

I think they heard, I think they cook at a certain level. I think they were like, I have to prove myself. I think they heard the luxe ingredients thing again. And so they were fighting the nature of the challenge. And I think that this isn't a Buddhist. But one of the reasons why someone like Amar, I think, has survived longer is because he's a veteran who doesn't overthink it. Yeah, he's also just like, I know how to make like a certain amount of things very, very well. Yeah. So when he made that lamb dish for the group dinner, which was the best episode of the season so far, despite the loss of begonia, like that was in some ways, there was only one risk, whether it was going to cook in time or not.

Yeah. Everything else, like if you put those ingredients together at the right ratios in the oven overnight, it's going to be amazing. Yeah. And he won. And that was. surprising to me, although it shouldn't have been, because that is still the nature of the game. But it's... Can I ask you one other question about this? Yeah. Have you noticed that Tom changes the temperature on this show? Because, like, he...

Tom Colicchio. Yeah. He can, like, affect the stock market one way or the other. When he goes into the kitchens? Even when he, before they started cooking that second, the last chance kitchen that was, like, right after the episode, he was, like, he threw out, make it commensurate. to the setting of where we are, like cook up to the standards of Downton Abbey, which would have fucked me up if I was making a sandwich. Fair.

And especially because... And I was like, is this a rule or are you just saying like, you want a really good sandwich? And they were like, remember the hilarious, potentially not factually true folk tale origin stories where the Earl of Sandwich wanted, didn't want to put down a good hand of whist. So he was like, unique between bread. Yeah. I feel like other people had that bright idea, you know? But who's the face of it?

Let's really question that. But I think those ruddy-cheeked judges who enjoy picnic baskets, they would have just like a real like a slice of roast beef and some sourdough. Maybe a spicy mustard.

That was just wild at Tom was like, I'm just going to put the watercress on top of the sandwich. He was going for plating. Yeah. But it did look pretty. Sure.

It was weird. Great season. Do you feel this is, as you know, well, I was going to say this is the only reality show I watch, but my children have gotten me on to next in fashion. Is that the Tim

Gun Show? No. It's a new... I mean, they're all the same. They're all Project Runway. But this is one hosted by Tan France from Queer Eye, who might like a lot. And Gigi Hadid,

who is a supermodel I've learned recently. Truly had no idea who that person was. I've watched a lot of Ozu movies recently. It's great. I love all fashion reality shows are amazing. And this one is a guaranteed cry

every week. I watch Survivor, the Top Chef and I really enjoyed Traders, which is essentially Survivor but in a house. It's with my guy, Alan coming. It is with your guy, Alan Cumming. But my question for you was, as a Survivor fan, the thing about Top Chef

for the last few seasons, especially, is just the vibes are immaculate. Like, Gail, Padma Tom, they know what they're doing. They do seem to legitimately like each other. It does seem like it's a good time for people to come back and be a part of it. And that is part of the experience. Is that

true with other long-running reality these shows. Not the, I don't think that they're, I mean, like, Survivor does have people back on from time to time. Like I said, like, I feel like it's going in this strange meta direction where no contestant is pure. Yeah. With Top Chef, I have to say I enjoy a little bit of like sharp elbows in the kitchen this season. A little bit. Yeah.

More than seasons past, I would say. The last couple of seasons have been very collaborative and cooperative. And this season is like a bunch of alphas who are like, I won. Yeah. I've won my thing already. I'm going to win again. Do you have a clubhouse favorite? I feel like Buddha's kind of like the mid-2010 spurs.

I'm just going to keep betting Buddha until he loses. I thought Buddha was out at the one Lagonia was out. I thought he maybe should have been. He's having, I think, a not, I think it's somewhat typical like mid-season swoon for the future champ where they kind of like start to get a little bit touchy about the challenges or like maybe, like, Buddha is always like, what the fuck are you talking about?

This disres perfect, you know, and interesting. Yeah. But I think he'll recover. I mean, I think he might be like, he's him. He's Austin Reeves, the greatest basketball player of all times. He's just like, ah, I'm here. He kind of is, but in a very technical way, because he's like, I'm going to solve this problem.

I think Amar, not Amar, I think Shabrell. Charbel and Ali are in the, are lurking. I think those guys are incredible. I think those guys have energy and skills and history and connections to traditions that we have never seen on this show. And what they're doing is just watch the show just for them. The dip plate that that dude made?

Or I was like, those dips look good. Yeah. He made a dip plate. That's a plate. Yeah. Those dudes are fascinating. And their energies are really good. Like, I mean, obviously, I'm all in on the show.

You said that the reality shows that you watch, you watch these fast-fash shows. Competitive shows. Well, I would posit to you that 100 foot wave is not a reality show. It's pure cinema. I watched the first episode of the second season last night. It's up on HBO Max now. Episodes called Epsilon. Chris Smith is back directing with some core characters from the first season.

For people who don't know, 100 foot wave is a docu series about a set at the sort of the biggest wave point, one of the biggest wave sets in the world. in Nazare, Portugal, which is in sort of like northwest Portugal, right? I love it. You're like, hey, geography guy. It's definitely in Portugal. And in the fall, typically, there are these swells there that they now have figured out how to ride via being towed out on their surfboards via jet ski

onto these huge waves, and that they can then do these runs down these waves. So for folks who haven't seen it, the first season introduced us to a couple of these surfers and their extended families. And kind of the discovery of Nazareth. And the discovery of Nazareth and the phenomenon of big wave surfing and some of the technical leaps that had to happen in the world of surfing for people to be able to access these waves in the first place. It's really cool. I personally was like, you know, obviously you and I were like deeply obsessed with this show. I think it came out at a time when it was truly, truly transportive.

I think it was. It was summer 21. Yeah. So it was like the world was like kind of opening up again. For them apparently as we were in this season. Well, no. We got to talk about this. So this is the funniest fucking part.

Season 2 of 100 wave opens with these guys all kind of October of 2020. Yeah. It's still pretty nardog out there. And all of these cats are like, I need to jump on a plane from Indonesia, from Hawaii, from wherever, and get to Portugal. And I was like, could we fly then? Could we? I mean, they were all just looking at weather.com and they're like, sick. Book it.

Book the travel. Yeah. We couldn't go to Hawaii then. So these people are all basically quarantining, but then a once in a century storm swell, Hurricane Epsilon is coming to Nazare and creating these conditions that are unspeakably dangerous and gorgeous or so they hope. And the first episode kind of brings everybody back together and also tracks how, whether it's the 100-foot wave effect or whatever, this has now become hot property.

and there are all these surfers out there. There's five or six jet skis and surf teams per wave. I think more. Yeah. And aside from that, you've also got swarms of drones and cinematographers working the cliffs now where it used to be like a couple of people watching on their wave to and from work. Now it's obviously a spectator sport. And I thought maybe, oh, you know, like do I eat more 100 foot wave?

Like, that was good. And the first time, like, you just see that thing fucking ripping, I was just like, I'm home. Yeah, I love this show so much. I love this show. I love these people. It is interesting because, to your point, there didn't need to be more, right? Like, they made it with, this was a documentary about a thing. And the thing spanned a decade, basically.

Yeah. From Garrett McNamara, he didn't personally discover this, but he sort of put it on the map. And he helped innovate and create this idea of toe surfing where you were. brought by Jetsky to the very, very, very, very biggest waves, introduced a whole cast of characters that we fell in love with. The second season is, you know, it is like that you have your lifetime to make a first album and then you have 10 months to make a second. And that we're picking up pretty, almost directly when the first season aired.

We're 2020, 2020, 2021. So it's going to be a smaller sample size of time. Uh-huh. That does not matter. Because I find- If anything, I feel like it looks even better now. Yes, I think they, I mean, they definitely got more, I don't know, whether it's the drone footage you're talking about or just more budget towards it.

But like, I think, I said this, I'm sure, two years ago. But when for the many, many, many hours, like 10, 12, 15, 17 hour days on set of Briar Patch, there was the one guy who was the focus puller. And all he did, and that's one job and it's very important, but we're not always filming. And what he was doing when he wasn't pulling focus was he was just watching surfing videos. Yeah.

And at first I laughed. And then, you know, two months later, I was just standing over his shoulder. Yeah. Because it is incredibly beautiful and hypnotic and dramatic to watch the stuff. And relaxing and thrilling at the same time. So we would be in regardless. But the thing about this show, I mean, it knows the thing that all good shows know, which is it's about the characters.

And now is the time to say again, for the record, that I would take a bullet for the Macias family. For Nicole, Garrett's wife. Yeah. And especially CJ. CJ, the first grade teacher. Her brother. Yeah. Who carries within his beautiful soul an energy that I have sought for all my 40 plus years on this earth.

earth and I've never found. Can I ask you a direct question? It's time. Would you send your children to the Messiah school in Hawaii? Without hesitation. I would transfer them now. So what Chris is referring to is that Garrett McNamara, who's getting on in years a little bit and a little concerned about the stability and sanctity of his body, he is quarantining

in this sort of family commune compound in Hawaii, which looks like absolute heaven. and his brother-in-law CJ, who is just bright, bright light, you probably don't like him because you like darkness and nighttime. Yeah. So he would be your enemy. CJ just takes it upon himself

to be the kindergarten first grade teacher of the kids there. Yeah. And let me tell you something. As someone who briefly dabbled in homeschooling, yeah. This guy is even more of a saint.

I think you would have done, I think you would have put up better numbers as a teacher had you been able to be like, guys, why don't we run outside and look at this rainbow ripping across the Pacific? That's a really, really strong point. That's a really, you know, that does make everything better. But yet, to your point, Chris, like, and then this storm happens and they're all just like, well, that's enough of that coronavirus. Garrett's like, I feel so present every day I teach my daughter a new thing. Yes.

I am finally on the sea with my son. Every day. My son barrel. And then he's just like, looking at his. phone and he's like, that's a pretty big swell. Is this the kind of swell to fly over for? And you'd expect maybe like, if it was a movie, it would be like, Nicole would be like, God damn it, Garrett.

You know, when are you going to love this family as much as you love the waves? Instead, she's just like, let's go. Let's go to Portugal. She's already got the Ramo's packed. She is the one who's like, Garrett's going to stand there and make excuses not to surf. That dude shattered his whole fucking shoulder. Yeah, it was just fine. And so he's spending this episode being like, I think I'm just going to tow Cadi, who we adore.

I'm going to give him a chance to shine. I'm going to look out for my friends. I'm going to help Justine, who I also love, these wonderful, bright-hearted lunatics. And Nicole is up on the castle, just spewing aerosols being like, what's wrong with my broken husband? It's unbelievable. It's unreal. I don't want to spoil this for anything. I mean, we've already spoiled it. I guess. But I want to say, plant my flag in the ground. Nothing in filmed entertainment will be as thrilling as the Kai Lenny scene in the first episode.

Oh, dude. So, if you haven't seen this show and you just want to enjoy this, please skip this part. But Kai Lenny, who is essentially like, I don't know,

Zion Williamson. It sounds like Siri. Show me a surfer. Yeah, but he's also like, he's staff. He's deaf. So where everybody else is like, I'm going down this 100 foot slope. I can't believe I lived. He's like, I'll go down a 70 foot slope, a wave, but I'm going to do fucking 360s and kickouts the entire way down. And so he tried and try innovate and think of like what would be a cool thing to do on one of these waves. While everybody is waiting for the big one, he grabs one and he's essentially got a selfie stick with a GoPro on it. And he wants to show people what it's like to actually ride these waves. On this wave that he takes with the GoPro stick, he's he wipes out.

And then he is stuck in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean as 100-foot waves crashed down on him over and over and over again and he talks about how he's feeling violated by the wave. What's happening underwater, yeah. And he keeps filming. He's like the only thing that kept me like sane

while this was happening was this idea of what is sick content this would be. But how about then he gets picked up by a dude who's not his driver. And he's just like, thanks, bro. No, he's like, you saved my life. I just got pounded. Yeah, but he's also, but the vibes are not what mine would be, I would say.

Like, I think, I don't want to speak at a turn. I think you have a little Kylie and you as a podcast. Uh-huh. I think my podcast energy is more Justine's boyfriend. You know, like, oh, maybe one to the more petite, my petit shoe. Like, let's not put you on Zip-1. We have taken our relationship to its limits on the way. on the 80 to 100 meter wave.

Yeah. Poor Fred. They're just a great crew. They just seem to have a good time. You see they make little like homemade burritos to get through the day. Yeah, they all like now everybody just sets up base camp there and just, dude, it looks like quite a life. I'm so glad it's back. We'll talk about it again.

But that is, to your, let's bring a full circle, man. Like, Max is coming. I'm pro Max. But right now on the home box office network on Sunday nights, it's. 100-foot wave, succession, and Barry. That's must-see TV. See, TV's back. TV's back for another four to six weeks.

Andy, we're going to go to my interview with Bridget Everett. Everybody should be watching somebody somewhere. It comes back next week. 23rd? 23rd. It's a wonderful show. Check it out. Thanks to Kai for producing. We will be back on Sunday night after Succession with our recap pot.

This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Ever have a plan come together out of nowhere and realize you're missing something? Like a last minute beach day, a spontaneous hike, or an outdoor movie night you didn't plan for, that's when Prime's same-day delivery as you're back. Getting you exactly what you need fast and reliably so you can actually join the moment instead of watching from the sidelines. Same day delivery, it's on Prime. Visit Amazon.com slash Prime to find millions of items delivered fast, available in select areas. Terms apply.

The playoffs are here, and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul predicts. Follow all the playoff dishes, swishes, wishes, wishes, and misses. Predict the spread, the total points, and even the game winner. Sign up for Fandual Predicts and predict it from the couch. Offered by Fandual Prediction Markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant. 18 plus. Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tools. This episode is brought to you by the Active Cash Credit Card from Wells Fargo. That's a mouthful,

but that's because it packs a lot in. Earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases with it, big or small. So whether it's buying tickets at the game or grabbing a coffee, it earns unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases. Say it with me. The Active Cash credit card from Wells Fargo, be a two-percenter. Learn more at Wells Fargo.com forward slash active cash terms apply. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty limited time flavors. New Whole Foods, Market Peach, Apricot, Rose, Italian soda.

Perfect for a picnic or brunch, as is their trending mango, Yuzoo chantilly cake. But if you're on the go, new 365 strawberry pretzels make a great sweet snack. That sounds delicious. Get savings with yellow sale signs storewide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. Bridget, thanks so much for doing the watch.

Thanks for having me here. Thanks for coming. I'm such a huge fan of this show, and I'm so glad it's back. Thank you. How are you feeling doing the press run and stuff for the second season? Because this must be almost like an opportunity

to hear from people, like what they thought of the first season. Do you find that people are interested in parts of the show that you were like, oh, I didn't pick that out, or I wouldn't have sort of noticed that about my own material. Yeah, you know, I don't really think about things in intellectual terms. So I talk to, like, smart people and they just, you know, put the fancy words on top of it. I'm like, oh, wow, yeah.

I'm just like, I just sort of lead with my heart and hope for the best. Yeah. I mean, but it has to be some sort of, is it vulnerable to put the show out there because it is a part of you? I mean, it's not literally like autobiographical, but it's largely. Yeah, I mean, it's based on like a lot of themes for my life. So it's very vulnerable. It's vulnerable shooting it.

It's vulnerable having people in my life see it and sort of maybe seeing some aspects of us or me or them in it. I don't know. I feel pretty – I'm walking through the world pretty exposed right now. Yeah. Yeah. I mean – it's good. It's good. It's worth it.

It's just – it does feel – it feels like a lot. Well, I would imagine also that, like, the connection that people have to the show. I mean, this is even like for me and my wife this happened. It's like where we're watching it and you know, you feel like you recognize aspects of yourself in it or aspects of your family in it. I'm sure people come up to you and they're like, hey, I got to tell you about my dad. Or I got to tell you about my relationship to my sister because of like what I saw on this show. I mean, it's like a very personal thing for people, I would imagine. Yeah. And sometimes like, you know, I'm a Midwestern. So it's sort of hard to kind

of take things in, accept a compliment, et cetera, et cetera. And to like really to hear them and believe that they're seeing something in it in that way. Like, I'm glad people like the show and I'm glad that they're enjoying it. But I don't know, like, when we're making it and like, we're sort of, you know, focusing on things that I feel like make me different. But the truth is that's, that's not necessarily true. There are other people that have a friendship as a central love story in their life. And then sort of how you navigate yourself through that when the person finds love or just holding on to people too tight or all the things that I think that make me a. It's kind of nice to know that there's other people that have that going on too.

It makes a little less isolating, I guess. That's the other thing, though, is like, I remember I was watching a Seth Rogen interview and he was talking about Superbad. And he was talking about, like, everything that we put into the movie that we were like, no one's going to get this or this is way too detailed and specific to our experience are all the things that people wound up being attracted to. It's like the more specific and the more authentic an idea is. Always better. It's always better. But I think, you know, I learned that a lot of my stage show, which is kind of wild, off the rails, you know, singing about various body parts and whatnot and just kind of being on stage in a very big way, you know, taking up a lot of space. Yeah.

But this feels a lot more intimate and also so personal, but I do agree with that. I think you always have to be very specific. And like the problem was when we were, not the problem, but when we were doing this, you know, HBO and Carolyn Strauss and. And we're always encouraging us to be, you know, more you, be more specific. Do, you know, and I was like, this just doesn't feel like a cool show. It doesn't feel like, you know, there's so many shows that have such a slick, cool vibe. And this is just not that, you know, and trying to trust that. But the best way to do it is just sort of stay true to yourself, stays true to your heart.

And exactly like the wise Seth Rogen once said, be specific as possible. There's a version of this show too where I guess that it could have been like a network sitcom about a woman going home and kind of like there's some workplace comedy and there's some family comedy and stuff like that

had you ever thought about or been approached to do something that felt like a more mainstream or commercial version of this but like a little bit more of a sanded down version of this story before or your story? You'll never believe this but I've been

just like one of the first times I've ever been approached for a show in my life. So you're one for one. Yeah, one for one. I mean, I did a pilot for Amazon that didn't end up going, but, but,

you know, but this is like kind of it. And like, to HBO's credit and to, um, our, you know, our other producers,

like, they wanted me, but we couldn't really figure out, like, if you see my stage show, it's pretty wild, like how to sort of, uh,

to, to, to, to, to, you might think. Yeah. But Casey and Amy gave me a holding deal,

and so there was time to kind of think about it and really find the right people to work with. And Carolyn suggested Carolyn Strauss, who's, you know, my hero, basically. She is a lot of them. She's done Last of Us, Game of Thrones and, you know, a couple other, you know, sopranos. I don't know, you just keep listening off.

Carolyn Strauss was in the room. But what was my point? What was the thing? I'm coming down from about it. Oh, whether or not, there was ever, like, another version of this show that was like... There wasn't, you know, Paul and Hannah pitched a world and, like, very counterintuitive in a way that was sort of like polar opposite of like my live show.

Just like the, you know, appeal is, but it appealed to like the Midwestern in me to, you know, my sister had passed away, the love of music. Murray Hill is Frederick Coco, who's one of my best, you know, friends, showbiz buddy. And it felt like these were all elements, like things that I could like hold on to. And then, you know, as we were sort of, we did the pilot and it was great. great. And then, you know, Amy, gravita, HBO is like, we want, you know, more family. I love the sister stuff. Like, let's, you know, they're just, I feel like HBO and the people working around me, like, see, see the valuable parts of me and are smart about bringing them out and leaning into them. And I like that the show is quiet. I like that it goes inch by inch and that

it's slow. It feels very different, but that to me is how life plays out. Yeah. Or maybe I'm just so emotionally stunted. It takes me a long time to get from A to B. No, but I was wondering whether or not, you know, sometimes I'd talk to people. and you can tell that they're making the show that they want to watch. Yeah. And, you know, there's been a few things like better things or, you know, like togetherness that I think have some of the same, not like, not obviously story beats, but maybe some of the same like aesthetic kind of qualities that your show has.

But I was wondering whether or not there was other stuff on TV that you were seeing that you were like, this gives me hope that I can do something like this on. on HBO or just on television. Not really. It wasn't like, we're like, oh, let's do better things meets Glee. You know, it wasn't like that at all. It's just like, we just wanted something very naturalistic, slice a life, nothing snarky, because that just didn't, it just doesn't, I've seen it, you know, like, I don't want to do that.

And I don't think any of us did. And something that focused on Midwest in like a way maybe doesn't get done a lot or hasn't been done or whatever, you know, there was like no roadmap. But everything is just sort of like, that feels good. If that feels fake, take it out. And just sort of hoping for the best. A lot of hoping, rolling the dice and hoping for the best. Can you tell me a little bit about...

How about that for a TV formula? Yeah, that's going to hope for the best. She was going to give Casey and Amy a lot of confidence. But, you know, that works for us. Can you tell me a little bit about the writing process? Because, like, one of the joys of this show is you can tell there's like a joke in the script somewhere where it's like, you know, I could name many number of scenes. And I don't want to give much away about the second season because people haven't had a chance

to see it yet. But there are especially moments with, you know, you and Joel in the first episode even where I'm like, oh, this is great. Like, what a great idea that's been executed here with Joel's Airbnb situation and stuff like that. But it feels so organic and like it's just rolling out of you two that I'm curious where the line between like, hey, let's get on set and let's sort of let this scene play out versus like it's on the page.

What scripted, what's improv kind of thing? Yeah. Well, what works to our benefit is I'm in the writer's room. And I know how I speak, right? Like I know how I kind of at my cadence and how I talk. And so, you know, we get together. We kick around the ideas. We come up with the story ideas and the themes.

And if it makes me cry, then it stays. If it doesn't. But we mostly stick to the page, you know. But then we, you know, we mess around a little bit, but never like with the intention of kind of, slamming jokes, you know? It just doesn't, it's just not the feel. Like, and if we're ever in the editing room and you can kind of just see if something feels like

it's, we're trying to make each other laugh is like in conversation, but as part of the character and not like, I thought of this joke. This is, wait till I tell them this one. You know, like, that just never, it just never works. It feels inauthentic to our world. Well, the one of my favorite parts about the show is how a joke will happen. And even in the show, like, people will have a, like, people will have a, like laugh, a little laugh.

Yeah. And then the scene lasts long enough that the laughter dies out. Yeah. People are kind of back in their own shit. Sort of like they're like, oh, yeah. I like that, but that's like my favorite part of life. Yeah. Like my favorite part of life is like, you know,

was Steel Magnolia's laughter through tears is my favorite emotion or whatever the thing is. But like it's true. I like that the show has a room to kind of laugh and reset. It just makes it feel to me natural. I guess. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, it feels makes the show feel more organic. It makes it feel alive.

And there's like one, there's like a scene, this is, there's like a scene in season one where like Joel goes running after his dog and like, we just sort of let it go for a while. But it was so delightful just watching him. I'm like, if we like watching this in the editing room, let's just keep it in the show and see if we can get away with it. But then this show's still tight. It's still like these are like 26 minute episodes.

That's the thing that's wondrous about it is you're like, I've seen like this entire tapestry of humanity. And these episodes are also like, they go by, you know? You want to keep it neat and tidy as a pin. You know, there's no, we really treat each episode like a very special little gem. And if it ends up being like 23 minutes, then it's 23 minutes. But there's no, it has to have a reason to be there. Yeah.

And, you know, Carolyn has such an exacting eye and HBO, you know, Amy Gravett and Pia and everybody. They just really, they're very smart about like just trimming the fat. And I'm not going to say that in my stage show. sometimes I just yimmer yammer on because I got nowhere else to go. Were you going to say you can cut stuff from your stage show like you're exacting like that or no? I want to think I am, but that's just not true. I want to be precise. It's just not true. I want to ask a little bit about this idea of Manhattan that you've got in the show because I know obviously it's not all shot in Manhattan and it's B-roll stuff and exteriors.

But I've never been. I was conversant in Bill Snyder's. like, you know, Kansas State football team, that's about the extent of it. How different is the somebody somewhere Manhattan to the real Manhattan? That's such a good question. But when I go back, and I've been back a lot recently for various reasons, people are like, we really feel like you nailed it. And I'm like, really? But I really try to be, you know, include as many local businesses, but also it's like the flavor.

It's like the way people talk, how people would react. You know, it's like, and, you know, I live in New York, so there's a lot of, people that have spent some time with mental health care professionals. And I'm not saying that people in the Midwest haven't, but the people in my life are a little more haven't really done that as much. DIY when it comes to that stuff. Yeah. So it's just the way that you kind of react to things and the way you deal with things is a little bit different. And it's just like, it's just as important as the actual words that come out of the mouth,

you know, like that sort of language of the feel of the place. And I did this thing, not to brag, but my hometown did it every day. Did you really? It was really cool. I got to go home. I was like, this is going to be so weird. But I went to, like, City Park, and they had, like, you know, step and repeat. And, like, all these people from the community came out.

And some of my old teachers, my old voice teacher was there. When I pulled up, I, like, started crying right away. Oh, my gosh. It was very overwhelming. But the response was, like, overwhelmingly positive. Like, thank you for getting us right. Yeah. And, like, I have such a, I look at everything because I want it to feel, if it doesn't feel like Kansas,

it goes. You know, we, we all want everything to feel as authentic as possible. And of course, you know, we're probably mess up here and there. But really, and Paul and Hannah are both Midwestern. So they have that vibe. And, you know, it's just a, it's just a slightly different feel. Now, you, do you mostly cast the show with Chicago performers? For, like, all the, like, the parts outside. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's such a great resource. That's part of the reason we wanted to shoot there. Yeah. Because you have that, that wealth of great Chicago, second city actors, you know, and we've had some wonderful people. And then, you know, even Mike Cagherty, he was cast out of L.A., but he's, you know, he's Chicago's, he's got that feel.

Yeah. So it was, it's a, we're really fortunate that way. And then we also have, um, the season one, season two, we're both sort of shot in a window when the Dick Wolf shows had a break. So we get the great crew. You know, they got, they're tight. They, you know, because we work very quickly. Yeah. We shoot sometimes.

Quicker than Chicago PD or? Oh, yeah. Definitely. I mean, you know, we sometimes we're, you know, we're shooting. shooting from like four or five different episodes on one day and you're doing like eight or ten scenes. It goes pretty quickly. Because you're doing like different block like shooting for locations. Yeah, there's like block shooting location, um, budget.

Yeah. Um, you know, it's sort of every, every reason under the sun. They run a tight ship. Is this a show that, because I've seen in a few interviews you reference being in the editing rooms. Is this a show that you think you discover more in post or that it's pretty much by the time you're cutting it? It's like that was what, like, is it something where you're like, oh, like, let's find this rhythm differently in editing?

I think it's so much about post. And I thought I was going to hate it because I hate watching myself, but I love it. I love like, and we have such great editors, and especially second season, they really sort of get our pace. But like, you know, it's, it's frame by frame. It's really thinking about things and not being indulgent, but letting a scene play out. and I think it's really fascinating. It's one of the highlights of this for me, because I was a singer and I write my own shows and songs and things

with my band and whatnot. But the education that I've gotten on the show. Film school. Film school with some of the best people. It's like that's just as valuable as doing the actual show itself. You mentioned New York. It's funny. I've been spending a lot of time in my.

hometown, which is Philly, but like I've been going back and forth a lot more. And it's really interesting to go back and spend more time there and see it through like older eyes. Yeah, a different way. Yeah. Do you think, this is sort of a strange question, but do you think you could have made this show if you hadn't left essentially? Never. Yeah. Like, is it something about the distance from home that makes it clearer to it.

Yeah. And also like even after the pilot, like, having gone back and spent a little time there. Like when I left for, you know, when I left Manhattan, Kansas, I couldn't get away fast enough. I was like, get me out of here. Yeah, I think a lot of people feel about their home. Yeah, and there was a time in my life where I didn't go on for about five years. I just just didn't, it just didn't feel like doing it.

I just didn't feel like it. But now, you know, I'm older, whatever. I always thought Kansas was beautiful, but I find it to be especially beautiful now, like especially taking the time to sit down and do B-roll and all that business. But what's also really cool about it is my oldest brother Brad still lives there. My best friend that I, you know, known since we both came home from the hospital. She still lives there. And it's the way that they integrate and act with the community around them that is,

after living in New York and hustling and thinking about just myself for a long time, you know, my brother's whole thing is like family first. I'm like, oh, whatever. But I was like, oh, that's actually pretty nice. If I ever need anything, you know, he's the boots on the ground out there helping me. Stephanie, my friend, is out there helping me. You know, they're always doing things for their neighbor. They're doing things for other people.

And I just find that really beautiful. Yeah. You know, and... Especially after a long time in New York. Especially after a long time in New York. And my friends are wonderful. They're my family, you know. But it's a different kind of thing.

It's just a different mindset. When did you move to New York? Oh, God, I have no idea. It must have been 97. It must have been there in 2000. And so I was there for 10 years. And yeah, I mean, it's just like, it's the best place in the world. But it's also, it doesn't make you, it's not like a finishing school for anywhere else.

It's like it kind of destroys your ability to live anywhere else. Yeah, it does. I mean, the food, the people, the shows. I mean, if I didn't move to New York, I never would have been able to do the show. You know, I met the, you know, I met sweetie who was a very influential drag queen. I met Murray Hill. I met, you know, I went to Kiki and Herb shows. I went to all these like wildly alive downtown shows.

And I had no idea that that world existed. And so it sort of blew the roof off my brain and let me tap into something other than just karaoke bars where I go wild is like living, like finding a way to sing and that I felt like I could excel at. and that challenged me and that made me alive and excited and learning how to tell stories and learning how to do all this stuff. And by doing that in clubs for 15 years or wherever you do it, you kind of learn to be a little bit faster on your feet and I got a little confidence. Your passion becomes your craft. Yeah, your passion becomes your craft.

But using those, I needed those tools to be able to do this, you know. If I would have shown up and had this opportunity when I was 21 years old, I'd be in dead or I'd be in dead I'm in prison or dead dead in prison I don't know I just I don't know things took the time they took from me and and I've learned I'm I think I figured it out do you feel like I just this is actually just personal curiosity do you feel like uh 21 year old you or whenever however old you were when you moved to New York if you moved to New York in 2023 is there still like uh is it economically viable to go and just be like I'm gonna wait tables and be an artist No.

Do you think everybody says that 20 years after they've, like, because I agree with you. And I lived in New York and was like, I just worked at a record store and went to shows all the time. Yeah. But I don't know how I would do that now. I don't know. I don't know how I did it. You know, as I, as I, I mean, I lived with Mary Catherine who plays Trisha for years and, you know, borrow money from her. She'd pay my rent.

She'd be on Broadway. And I don't know how I did it. Where did you guys live? We lived down the Upper West Side. Okay. And we lived together for almost 10 years. And now we're in a ground-level apartment with a, I'd like to say no rodents, but we got our fair share. Cockroaches. We live next to pizza plays. I mean, it was a mess.

That's rough. But, you know. Well, they got a rat czar in New York now, so they're going to take care of it. Oh, yeah. That lady got hired. Yeah, I saw that. I was like, what a job. How do you throw your hat in the ring for that? But good for her. I can't wait. Well, thank you so much for coming by.

I love the second season. Yeah, we're all good. Yeah, this is great, you know. Yeah. Unless you got any questions. No, watch somebody somewhere. Yeah. I'm going to like it.

God bless HBO. Thank you so much for going to. Thank you.