The Watch - Wrapping Up Our 'Industry' Talk With Myha'la Herrold

Episode Date: December 24, 2020

Chris and Andy give some final thoughts on 'The Mandalorian' and the forthcoming Beatles documentary 'Get Back' (1:00). Then, they talk with 'Industry' star Myha'la Herrold about how she came to play Harper on the show (12:43) and what it was like to work with veteran actors like Ken Leung (29:41). Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Guest: Myha'la Herrold Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I need sports to have to clear the run. Stand up and walk now. Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at the Rigger.com and joining me on the other line. He made it through Rift. It's Andy Greenwald. Chris, here we are.

It's Thursday. We have a big interview. And we're still living in the fallout on the Mandalorian season finale. We should get to that after the break, right? Yes, we should. Let's do it. Today on The Watch, we have Mahala Harold,

who plays Harper Stern on the industry. one of our favorite shows of the year. It was a great chat. We're going to talk a little bit about the finale of industry and a couple other things before we get to our interview, but we'll just take a quick break and get right back to the watch right after this. Did you know about one in three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriatic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you? Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away. Trimfaya, Guselcomab, taken by injection, is a prescription.

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The cheers of friends that unlock a new gear within us, the intersection of interests that inspires a run crew, the support that gets you over the finish line. Connection is why we move forward and what inspires us to keep going. Let's run there. Learn more at brooksrunning.com. All right, man. what's going on? So we're recording this. It's Tuesday. This will run on Thursday. We have our

interview with Mahala Harold, which was just a great chat to talk to her about her work on industry and was like she's pretty much one of the breakout stars of the TV year. So we have that whole conversation on the second half of the show. What did you want to talk about in the first half? You're being, you're being cagey. A couple things. A couple quick hits. One, you know, big Mandalorian finale and we talked about it. Are you going to address the haters? No, I'm just like, it is, it is kind of amazing. People are mad at us for not having fun, which fair, especially if you know me in real life. I think that's, that's accurate. But like, it's interesting. I guess I'm still interested in unpacking like my Skywalker antibodies, right? And like that as a benchmark for your true

enjoyment of the show. And maybe the thing that I'm responding to is the death of the innocence of just liking the Mandalorian. Because the thing about that show that we keep championing, right, is that it really is an open-door policy for everyone. You don't need to know about the Assocata no backstory, as explained in multiple seasons of the Clone Wars cartoons, to be like, this is dope. You know what I mean? And similarly, I think everyone could find their own things to love,

whether it was Bill Burr or Caradun or the sound effects, as I went on about on Monday. But then once that smooth, smooth Irishman face of Mark Hamill shows up, It's like, oh, you know what I mean? Like now we got to bow down. And that's interesting to me. It changes the tenor of the conversation. And I wonder if it's because it changes the stakes or it kind of just hypercharges the fandom debates that kind of royal these big franchise properties regardless.

Yeah, I think we hit on this a little bit on Monday where it's like some of the promise of this show is that it existed outside of stakes. That it was like, you know, despite the fact that this guy was trucking around a baby Yoda. that his story could exist independent of, like, I guess for lack of a better term, the Skywalker saga, which we had all, I think, kind of come to a point of exhaustion with

and also just kind of had sort of run out of ideas for, both the fans and the people who are making the stuff. So I think that there is a little bit of a bittersweet quality to seeing, you know, this beloved character get whisked away by another beloved character and like, kind of processing all of that.

I don't know. I mean, I think that they're, I've been really pleasantly surprised by the welcoming nature for the most part of the, hey, so if you didn't watch rebels and Clone Wars, like, here are a couple of things you didn't know, but like, it's not like you fucking idiot. How did you not know about the mythology of the Dark Saber? You know, I think that it's, I think everybody is allowed to love Star Wars in their own way, especially since Star Wars started from, it's these three movies. And then they expanded the universe so much. much, rather than, say, Thrones, where there's already all these books and scholarship about it, and then they put a TV show on top of it. It's also, and this is something that you and I were kind of getting into when we were texting the other night, like, everyone's mileage varies in terms of just what touches them, right? And I think that I just was kind of maybe misidentifying my true fandom heart, because, well, Star Wars were formative when I was a kid, because that's when they came out. We're the same age. We experienced them.

the same way and the toys and everything. I have like a deep in my secret place heart reaction when ego the living planet is in the fucking Guardians of the Galaxy sequel. Yeah. You know what I mean? And that is my fandom blind spot. You know what I mean? Like there is something about seeing I get all fucked up when you hear Luke's theme. You know what I mean? When you hear the Force theme. So it's like I think that I don't I don't think I've ever had like a really deeply emotional reaction to Marvel stuff. Because also I think you because I don't know if you went as deep in the comic books. So I think that my storytelling sensibilities and things that matter to me and understanding fandom really came from buying monthly comic books when I was 11, 12, 13, less so

than the Star Wars movies. And part of that is probably because for both of us, it was kind of a special event to see them, right? Like, we saw, I think I saw Empire in the theater. I think I saw the first one in a theater on a re-release. I definitely saw a Jedi in the theater when it was out. And then what? Like, rent it. But then in terms of watching those original movies, rent it, sometimes. I remember always around the holidays, they'd be on TV. And I don't even remember what channel it was, but like being at my grandparents and suddenly you tune in and they're on tattooing and you're like, the next six hours are spoken for it. Thank God. But otherwise, it was not as complete, like, you didn't have the choice to engage. So that may speak to it. Okay, before,

I know we want to get into the interview. I have one other thing to bring up to you. And it's maybe it's a good segue from Luke's weirdly uncanny valley face, which is, to Peter Jackson, not a filmmaker we talk about a lot on this podcast, is making this Beatles documentary. Are you aware of this? Yeah, they'll get back. It's the stuff from the Let It Be footage, right?

Yes. And this is something... And this is like 50 hours of unseen Beatles footage, right? Yeah, and so I guess a couple years ago, I didn't see this. Did you see this movie he made about World War I? I did, yeah. So it was kind of...

Basically, the way I want to set this up is, I have a very deep skepticism about Peter Jackson's project. You know, and there was something about like that well we're just we're just a bunch of hobbits sitting around in New Zealand just like perfecting filmmaking and perfecting CGI leaves me a little cold that's probably not fair but so when I heard that he made this documentary of like scrubbing World War I footage and making it look contemporary totally missed me was not that interested in it then I hear he's making a Beatles documentary and another deep skeptical allergy is triggered where I'm like I feel like this is covered you know what I

I mean, like, I feel like the Beatles are fairly well known, and there are probably other stories worth telling not that interested, particularly if it's going to be like a make them, make them alive, like it's some sort of like two pocket Coachella hologram kind of scenario. Last night, turning on the TV to watch some programming with my wife, the pluce is on because I think my kids were watching something on it earlier. And on the big bar, where it's usually Mando, it's like Peter Jackson presents a sneak preview of this Beatles documentary, Get Back. And I was like, okay, all right, five minutes, you've earned it. You've earned my time. And I press play on it. It is Peter Jackson, like in his little hobbity layer being like so excited to show this to you. We have 56 hours of tape.

No, but it's interesting. He is of a level of filmmaker where he can make his editing suite whatever he's working on. So this editing suite is full of guitars for some reason, I guess, to kind of feel the vibes. And anyways, like, this is kind of a montage we made to show you what we're working with and what it's going to be. And as you said, this is a, is the footage, the raw footage that turned into a very famous documentary that kind of showed the discord that led to the breakup of the band while they were making their last record. It starts, and my jaw hits the floor, and I am perplexed by my own reaction to it. It is really moving, because the footage, at least as shown here, shows these icons, these people that I and many other people are kind of cynically over, right? Because we've seen everything about the Beatles. I don't ever really want to fire up a Beatles record. It's just so baked into the

core of our existence as pop cultural people of the age that we are. But suddenly they're young. And it doesn't look like studio trickery. It doesn't look like Luke's non-blinking face. It just looks beautiful and alive and vibrant. And suddenly gods are just kids goofing around again. And I found it really surprisingly moving. Yeah, I wonder whether or not a lot of that is just like the thrill of the undiscovered. You know what I mean? Like just the idea that there could still be something out there that that these guys did together that has not been not only just seen, but poured over. You know, when you think about the kind of scrutiny that we give the Beatles, like, sometimes I've had the experience where, like, it's hard for me to hear the Beatles.

You know what I mean? Like, it's very rare that I actively choose to listen to the Beatles just because they've been, they were such a huge part of my childhood, and then they were such a huge part of getting into writing about music and thinking about music. You basically had to face off against them as like the sun. You know, they were this this thing that sort of rose over every record you were listening to for the most part. So yeah, I can understand why that would be overwhelming. And also, though, I think that I was maybe too jaded or at least I misunderstood the project because everything that generally projects that come down from the baby boomer generation about their most precious things are kind of hagiographies, right? Like here's another piece of implacable

that this is the greatest thing ever and you just have to respect it. And that's very difficult way to engage with anything. And maybe the ultimate result will be that. But what I was really moved by was it seemed to be Peter Jackson's project was just showing them as people. Yeah. Just screwing around the studio, hitting the wrong notes, laughing. Yoko, I didn't even remember this from years ago watching The Let It Be stuff, like just sitting five feet in front of where Paul and John are playing, staring daggers at both of them. Which, by the way, when we get to record in person again. Kaya, you are married to neither of us, but I highly encourage you to try that to see if it brings out equally brilliant work from both of us, just staring without making anything

away. Our first five, that way are, let it be. But I thought that was really moving and interesting, and I wonder if it's, I don't know, it, it, the counterpoint, and this is me monologuing about stuff that you haven't seen yet, but I also watch the Bee Gees documentary, because this is who I am now, I guess, and really recommend it. It's really enjoyable. It's made by Steven Spielberg's long time producing partner Frank Marshall. But that, while really illuminating, feels very old-fashioned in a different way. And not technologically, but because it's doing the thing that documentaries do, which is breathlessly racing through the major points of a biography. Right.

Leaving you dazzled by the music and the era and the hairstyles, but also being like, well, wait, it's frictionless. I didn't learn enough. I want to know more about this brother relationship or the drug overdoses or, what happened when disco blew up in their faces? And I guess I'm just surprised that this Beatles project, again, it could be wrong about it, seems to have something very different in mind, and it's kind of exciting. Yeah, I mean, it's something to look forward to, which is nice. Hey, yeah, it's coming out in 2021. Speaking of which, so just a little bit of housekeeping before we get to Mahala, we have this interview today that kind of concludes our coverage of industry. Then on Monday

of season one of industry, because it's coming back. We have on Monday, our chat, with Jason Mansuchas, which is sort of an annual occurrence where we kind of go through the year in culture. It was an awesome conversation. Really wide-ranging, thoughtful chat with Jason, who's one of our favorite guests and one of our favorite people. And then on the following Thursday, we'll do our year-end mailbag. So we still have shows throughout the end of the year, but this will be our last recording session. So lovely to see you as always. Great to see you too. And great that we're introducing this interview with Mahala Harold, who is just awesome. There's something similar, I think, energy-wise, when we talked to her and we talked to Anya Taylor Joy earlier, because they are both the real deal. They are just tremendous talents that are charismatic and hold the screen. But they are also both, I think, about the same age. And their exuberance for the business, for acting for the projects that they were promoting was just really infectious and really positive. You know, it was really great.

to see. Easily two of the best performances of the year. So let's just without further ado, we'll take a quick break and we'll get into our interview with Mahala Harold. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Ever have a plan come together out of nowhere and realize you're missing something? Like a last minute beach day, a spontaneous hike or an outdoor movie night you didn't plan for, that's when Prime's same day delivery as you're back. Getting you exactly what you need fast and reliably so you can actually join the moment

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I can use points for a free night's day anywhere? Anywhere. What about fancy places like the canopy in Paris? Yeah, Hilton Honors, Baby. Or relaxing sanctuaries? Like the Conrad in Toulomb? Hilton Honors, baby. What about the five-star Waldorf Astoria in the Maldives?

Are you going to do this for all 9,000 properties? When you want points that can take you, you anywhere anytime. It matters where you stay. Hilton for the stay. Book your spring break now. Annie and I are so happy to welcome Myhala Harold to the show. Probably like she has created one of the most indelible characters of the TV year. And we're so happy to be wrapping up our conversation on this first season of industry by talking to Harper Stern herself. My Allah, how you doing? I'm stoked. I could not be more excited and pleased and honored and blessed and lit to be here with you guys. We're so excited that you're joining us.

We are so happy to talk to you. Congratulations on the show. Congratulations on everything. We love your performance. And we also love your cheerleading for the show because I think both Chris and I watched the program for the first time. We were like, we love everyone on the show.

It took me four episodes to figure out their names. But I was like, let me figure it out. Let me get in the mix and find out where they are. Are they on Sosh? Oh, yes, they're on Sosh. And not only are they on Sosh, some of them, you, have been shadow liking everything we've said about the show.

since minute one, which is so sweet and very, very exciting. And also, maybe emblematic of a show where the average age of the cast is significantly less than our age. Oh my gosh. Well, let me tell you, I mean, I wasn't on Twitter until this show happened. And I was like, well, I'm nosy and excited enough about this show that I should probably get on Twitter. So I did.

And for like, I don't know, a month, I only had like 100 followers. And I felt very sneaky. So I could indeed follow you guys and stalk you via the internet as severely as I had. But yeah, man, I love the show. So I'm very excited to hear what other people think about it. I hope they love it as much as I do. I don't know if they possibly could, but maybe you guys. Well, I mean, that actually leads to a, I wanted to ask you, first of all,

just if we could do a little bit of origin story for people who don't know how you wound up on the show. And it's like for our listeners, if you could just explain how you found yourself in Wales talking about five beeps. Because full context, we just recently spoke to the friend of the podcast, Sam Esmail, whose wife, Emmy Rossum,

is absolutely taking credit for all of your success this year and saying she cast you in modern love on Amazon last year. How do you go from being on one episode of that show last year to leading this series in Wales on HBO a year later?

I died, I just, I don't know. It's one of the, this, people keep asking me like, is that this is so, crazy. Like, how does it feel? Like, how did this happen? I really can't tell you. I'm happy to give

Emmy all the credit because I kind of feel like I found myself at the right place, at the right time, with the right face and the right abilities. You know what I mean for this script? I feel, and truthfully, there was, before industry happened, between industry and that episode of Modern Love that I did with Emmy, there were a couple very close calls. You know, I got very close to a few projects that didn't go my way. And it was one of those, at the time I was bald, I had shaved head all through college. And when I graduated, I was very cool. But mostly I just didn't want to like deal with my hair. I'm cool and lazy. So I was bald and I, after this last, it was like three projects that I tested for and I thought I was going to get. And then the last one, I was like,

damn near shore. The director was like, it's going to be you. And I was like, don't say that to me. He did. So, and then it wasn't. And I, you know, was looking at who they did end up casting. And I was like, oh, maybe I need to grow my hair out. Like, maybe I need to wear makeup. Maybe I need to dress more feminine. I was quite androgynous at the time as well. And still I am on occasion.

But it was definitely, I had a bit of a crisis, a bit of a, like, personal crisis thinking, oh, no, maybe I have to make myself palatable for the industry. And then here comes industry. And they were like, we love your shaved head. We love your vibes. You're amazing. Which was a nice little lesson that now I hold very dear to my heart about authenticity. I preach all the time, like, be your life.

yourself all the time and what is right for you will follow because that's what happened for me. And I would hope that that would happen for everyone, you know. There's no question that you are extremely gifted actor and we're going to talk more specifically about your performance. But I do wonder if there is some overlap here because so much of what makes Harper so compelling is how completely foreign this world that she's thrown into is and how she reacts to it. And when we spoke to Mickey and Conrad, the creators and showrunners of the show, they were describing basically like almost like a chemistry read between potential cast

that they held and that they said was your first time overseas. And then with all of these actors who, you know, within a matter of weeks or months, you would have to be, I mean, you'd have to be licking some of their faces. What was that experience like? Was it good for you to be thrown, you know, almost into the deep end that way? And how did you acclimate yourself as my hollow the person, even before you began tackling Harper the character? I don't think I consciously did.

I was, I mean, I was so awestruck by the whole situation. I had always wanted to travel to London to the UK and I was, you know, romanticizing British accents because that's what, you know, young American girls do sometimes. When I got there, I was literally just so amazed by all the things around me, by the driving on the other side of the road, like knowing that it was not, didn't have to be scary and maybe it was very exciting. I think I was, I just sort of went along. Like I would like, if people were laughing and there were jokes I didn't get, which

still happens, mind you. Like six months is not enough to under. understand like every joke that Ben Lloyd Hughes will come up with because it is attached to like lifetime's worth of cultural references that I just simply would never understand. But I, I sort of just like latched on to all of them and was like, I really need friends. Like, please tell me all the things I don't know because I'm completely alone here. And this is a lot of work. And I need to have someone to love and like throw all this chaotic energy at. And they all took me in like immediately. Marisa and Harry and David. Like we're all really

close and I think I think my my sort of like wide-eyed bushy-tailedness Americanness was appealing to half of half of the folks over there like oh my God how cute this America doesn't know anything and the other half were like literally you're so annoying like why don't Americans know anything like get out of my face yeah I feel I feel like that is like pretty much the deal we get everywhere where it's like you go and 50% of people are like how interesting tell me all about it and other the other 50% are like fuck off you guys got to be kidding me There's a reason we don't put ice in it, so stop that. I know, seriously.

How much did Harper change from when you first read the pilot script or the first episode script to, I guess, when cameras started rolling, but even as you got more and more involved in production and in playing the part? Well, I think the nice thing about coming in so green, and me as an American and also a newbie to the industry, which is the same for my other young castmates, is we were all kind of like deer in headlights, fake it till you make it situation, handling a set a show to this scale and these parts with this much responsibility, similarly to our characters who are entering this massive new world

where they also have to fake it till they make it. So the nice thing about that is like our own fears and hesitations and anxieties about the work we were doing, it translated into our characters and it was perfect that we were coming in on day one with all of the people at Pierpoint, because if I had to come in like at episode five, knowing what Harper knew then, it may or may not have been as believable as it was. But I think, you know, as Harper becomes more comfortable in the bank, I was becoming more comfortable with leading a show and learning lines

and figuring out how to make jargon sound like it belongs in my mouth, you know, that sort of thing. But I think like character-wise, on the page to me and why I think I got this part, it was very clear to me that Harper was just riddled with insecurity, like a massive amount of fear, knowing, believing that she has all these capabilities and talents, and she knows that she belongs in this place that she believes to be a meritocracy. If it's about meritocracy, like, she's like, yes, I can hold a candle to anyone. But she also knows that she's got all kinds of secrets and reasons for people to think that she doesn't belong there. And in that point of your life, when you're 21, 22, literally,

everything is life and death. So she really thinks her life will be over if she cannot make it at this bank. And maybe my alter ego's response, Harper's response, is reveal nothing, be very hard, icy exterior, and that will make you undeniable. Like, no one will mess with you if you don't give them any room, any cracks in your veneer. And to me, that is so compelling because obviously you're overcompensating, you know what I mean? Yes. It's fascinating to hear you talk about that, because I wonder in a way if you've already answered the question I want to ask,

but I still want to ask it anyway, which is basically, was that insecurity the North Star for you in the performance? Because one of the most compelling things about the series is that as episodes go by,

every character seems to feel like they know Harper. They know the real Harper. They have a handle on the real Harper. As you move from relationship to relationship, interaction to interaction, everyone seems to say like, even if they don't explicitly say it,

they behave in a way that suggests you and me, we get it and other people don't. Most of them are wrong, it seems, from where we ended the season. To you, who playing her, which one was the real Harper? I mean, was the version, that hard version that had that hard version of Harper at the bank existed before she set foot in those doors? Is there a version that you kept in touch with that allowed you to be so consistent? Because I think the thing that Chris and I remain so impressed by was your performance

is so, I mean, it's diamond sharp throughout, even though you are playing. a woman who is hiding behind things that she's hiding behind. Well, thank you very much. I really appreciate that. I think it is that crippling insecurity is the through line. Like, anybody to behave, anybody who would or is capable of behaving as erratically, as irrationally to some and as contradictory to who you might think a person is when you meet them in, you know, maybe a different state, the only thing that I can think of is that person is fighting so many personal demons

that any action reaction is possible because they're probably twisting every situation in their mind to not address how insecure they feel. And when you feel that insecure, and I'm speaking from experience as well, like whenever I feel like literally everyone is my enemy and everyone hates me like so much. They hate that I'm alive and that is horrible, you know? And for a person that, Mike Harper, if she thinks people don't like her at this job that she has to keep or else she might actually perish, she's going to do anything and everything, most things that are

completely irrational and opposite of the outcome she wants because she doesn't want to reveal that she's that insecure. So I think the through line to me was the deep-seated insecurity because that can make a person a serious chameleon, you know. And crippling insecurity is a great, great, great combo platter with a crippling hangover. That's right. Chef's kiss. That is just the way you want to spend. Right.

Andy makes a good point because I hadn't really thought about this before, but a lot, to me, like everything kind of leads up to and turns from Harper's birthday in the season. Like when Harper's, after Harper's birthday, I feel like when I golf and things are going bad, I like to say things are moving. What a flex. Things are moving quickly for me. And I think things are moving quickly for Harper after her birthday. And they're kind of sliding a little bit out.

of control. But it's interesting, like, Yasmin will tell her, like, you're the best thing about working here for me. Or Darya will be like, I'm your friend. I'm your boss. But like, everybody's always stating to her who she is and what they are to her. And she's always like kind of receiving that, but doesn't actually, I think only Rob is the only person that she's actually going towards and trying to sort of like carve out a relationship to. Yeah. I actually don't think I even noticed that in doing it. Yeah. But I think that's very true that a lot of people.

And you know what? I mean, Harper even says it to Sarah at some point. She says like, what do you really know about me? Yes, right. Right. What do you know about me? Why do you assume that I'm so many things? And this, I think, is what is my favorite thing about Harper and my favorite thing about

playing this role, particularly as a black woman. Like, I'm so tired of stereotypes of any kind of person. but particularly black women. And Harper literally does the exact opposite of anything you think she might do at every turn. And that to me is not only compelling and real and, you know, tugs up my own heartstrings and is relatable to me, but like it is also opening up the possibilities of all the things we can be, whether they're, you know, moral or otherwise.

Yeah. But yeah, I think the real Harper is the Harper who does what she needs to do. to protect herself. And if that means signing some documents to get somebody out of the way or signing some other documents to get another person out the way or get a person in the way, fine. If that also means like having a tender moment with a friend and showing support, then cool. But at the end of it all, which, you know, we see the only thing that really matters

to her is her survival because I think she's experienced that she only has herself. And we learn a little bit about that when we talk about, like, oh, she has this brother who left. And I think that's probably the thing that has made her this cold and untrusting of everyone. One thing that I didn't appreciate when the season started, but I really came to appreciate was just how this environment, you know, to steal a name from a previous movie that has nothing to do with that boiler room. Like this boiler room that everyone's working on on the floor is such a high stakes place for. for everyone that causes them to have to, in many ways, pass one way or another, right? And I think a lot of people feel fraudulent on that floor, but they behave in a certain way. They put on a coat of armor.

And the show is very, very, Mickey and Conrad and everyone else working with them, is very admirably sensitive, I think, to everyone's, the particulars of everyone's journey, like Yasmin and Rob, passing via class from different directions, basically, to end up on the same floor. But Harper's journey, as you alluded to, is extremely different from everyone's on any number of levels. And we're reminded of it, not just when we see you sitting there amidst 100 people who look more or less like Kenny, but also when you open your mouth and you speak with an American accent, you know. Right. It's a very particular struggle, I guess, for her every minute of every day that the other characters have a very hard time, I think, understanding. And can you speak to that particular nature of the part? I mean, to be a black woman on that trading floor, and a black American woman on the show, the only moment when anyone I think, think ever kind of speaks to her about it directly, and even that's not very direct, is in that

cigarette with Eric that obviously then spirals in directions we didn't expect. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think those things in particular contribute in the biggest part to her, like, serious anxieties and like her lack of confidence and her abilities. Because even though, like, Harper's always been black, and this is how I think about it as well, because I've also always been black. She's always been black. She's always felt like she's, she's been in rooms and felt disadvantaged. She's had this issue at school. She, you know, has all these things to hide. So when she gets there, she's already, she's had, she's had experiences in life that she's like, I already know how this works. I already know I have to fight 10 times harder. I already know I'm going to have this

social issue. And then you add being in another country. And like you said, in the boiler room of this place, add like bazillions of dollars to the mix. So it's going to to make her already difficult time socially and otherwise because of all these insecurities, it's going to set them all literally aflame. And I think, yeah, I think if she had been in an American bank, it might have been a little different. Maybe people would have appreciated her very dark, very ugly humor or, you know, but that's what I love about this show, though. Like, I liked interrogating that in myself, like as a person, as a human, like not understanding the culture or the jokes and immediately feeling like, oh my God, I am the dumbest person in this room.

My British friends are never going to love me. And that was literally never the case. And of course, I didn't go around like, you know, slashing people's tires or like stabbing people in the back and being like, can I play Gus now? But I really, I definitely was going through so many things she was going through. And I really appreciated the way that influenced the work because it was really important, I think. And happy that they cast an American, you know.

And two Americans, because I'm not. I think the most fascinating relationship for us watching the season was the relationship between Harper and Eric and have to ask you about working with Ken Lung on any number of levels because, first of all, his performance is just incredible. And we talked to Conrad and Mickey. We talked about the way he just sort of menaces the screen, even when he's not on it, in the most exciting way, and loved that relationship between Eric and Harper, which is not at all what anyone expected and continues to surprise, hopefully, for a long time going forward.

I guess particularly wondering what it was like. developing the contours of that relationship with him as an actor. And then specifically, you know, he's a veteran. He's been doing this for a long time in a number of different ways, you know, big screen, small screen stage and what that was like for you as a person and performer. I think my relationship, me, my haul of the person, my relationship with Ken sort of mirrors, minus the abuse, sort of mirrors that of Harper and Erick's. Can you imagine?

And I would never do that. I desperately need Kim. And this is, this is why. I mean, like, coming into it, of course, like, you add being American and being young and being black and being a woman. And I knew I was like, I have a lot of responsibility on my plate here. And I know that I have to, I'm going to do it right. Like this script, these people, it is demands respect and justice be done.

So I was like, I'm coming in hot 110%. And I was really, really, really. nervous of people thinking that I was a diva. There's this looming thing of being like a young woman in a leading role. You always hear like, don't be a diva, don't this. And it's like, I don't even really know what that means because I'm pretty sure I'm like a pretty nice collaborative person and I hope that people want to work with me. And I'm confident in that.

However, I still was afraid of people thinking that I was a diva. Like if I was like, I need a glass of water. I was like, I can't ask for that. I was like going to think I'm, you know what I mean? So there were many occasions where I said. said to Ken, like, or, you know, we're sitting there 12 hours a day next to each other on our desks. And I would say, man, I really feel like I don't know, maybe I need another take or maybe I need this adjustment or, you know, and I'm really afraid to ask.

I just don't really know what to do. And Ken at multiple occasions, but I remember the first time he did it, Ken like swirled around in his chair. And he was like, Mahala, this room belongs to you. We are only here because of you. you are amazing. You ask for whatever you need and you don't give a fuck

what anybody thinks about it because you are amazing and I literally nearly cried. I was like, wow. And you're like, I will take that water. Yeah, I'll do it. I was like, I will have a water, please. Also, maybe you should get Gus's part

because you just did Eric. That was uncanny. So I feel like the one woman show season we're in there. We're in for it. The Tracy Oman version of this show where you just play every part. It's COVID-friendly.

It is COVID-friendly, and I do a really good gus too. I have a good, I have a good, um, eyebrow. I have a good, you know what I mean? I went to Eaton, yeah. Oh, when he does his sexy eyebrow? Yeah. When he does a sexy eyebrow, yeah. I'm a lot of like us.

I wanted to ask you about that last scene that you do with Ken. I was so fascinated by those last two episodes because pretty much from when Darya tells Harper that she's going to have to repay this bonus, it just seems like, Harper's almost in his shock for the rest of the next episode and a half. And in a way, Mickey and Conrad told us about how a lot of what industries gamble was,

was assuming that audiences would go along with it and not need everything spelled out for them. And I thought that promise was really fulfilled in the last two episodes because Harper never does the like, here's my monologue, explaining everything about myself and why I'm making this decision

essentially between Dariah and Eric, but really also between Adler and Saur and like, why I'm doing what I'm doing. And then you're waiting for it. You think it's going to happen in the elevator. And it's just a joke. It's just like you tell him to put his phone away. And then you actually crack a smile maybe for the first time since the first episode. Do you tell me a little bit about when you like read that scene, how you guys played it?

Because I thought it was so fascinating how nuanced and true to life it felt even though it wasn't true to TV. Because usually you need the, you need the monologue. right? Yeah. Yeah, I remember reading that scene and thinking she didn't, she didn't have to say anything. Or she, maybe she was, when she says, you know, put your phone away. And when I watched it back, I was like, oh, is there a, I really thought she was going to say something else and then she didn't. But, but yeah, she says, like, put your phone away.

And I think there is a moment there where she might say something. But really, Harper understands that she has the power in the situation. She has just brought his ass back to work. it was literally only in her hands to do it. And she did it. And there's a moment of that, like, she wants, there is, there is morality there. Like, Harper really doesn't want to, like, hurt anybody,

especially someone that she's aligned herself with someone who's helped her. So she wants desperately for Eric to, like, absolve himself. So she gives him that opportunity. She says, okay, I'm the boss in this situation, because I brought you back, put your phone away. And now she's just making, she's making space there for him to say, what happened? And when she asks him, what did you say to Adler's wife? And, you know, I think maybe she's expecting him to say, oh, I called her up, you know, X, Y, and Z, which she experiences that he

does. And when he says, I don't remember, that has to be funny because he's literally gone because of that. And she went through so much, everyone went through so much with his leaving and his coming back, like how many panic attacks did she have over this very thing about what he said and he literally doesn't know. And I think she's like has to be tickled by that because it's also ridiculous. And also like now I think she can't say, oh, it's not that he's a bad person. He just didn't know what he, you know, he's not worried about that. He's worried about work and so am I. And so I think that that was a moment too for for her to be like, like I was like, this is going to be very serious. Like, what did you say? And then when he's like, I really don't know.

Yeah. You have to sort of give it up. You know, you have to let it go and be like, all right, well, let's go. Let's move on. Day two or work. It's an incredible scene. It's just an incredible scene. Thank you. I'm sure Mickey and Conrad have their own reasons for this, but I'm really curious what your answer is, particularly in terms of just your work in aligning what's on the page with how you interpret the character and how you hope to play her going forward. And the question is, in the finale, this happens throughout the series, but particularly in the finale, Yasmin and Sarah and certainly Darya

basically offer a hand to Harper. And they all say, we're your person or we can be your person or we're here for you. And she chooses Eric. She very actively shuns all of them and chooses Eric. Why do you think Harper makes that decision? Why is

his version of mentorship, friendship, allyship, the one that registers for her when the other ones don't? Well, coming in to the bank, that's like her idol. He's running the most money. He's calling the shots.

He's doing it his own way. And she recognizes he's the only other American in her, you know, eye line. And he is a person of color. So all of those things, whether she thinks about them consciously, she's going to gravitate towards that. And she really likes that he's not compromising anything social.

Or he's not compromising his work to allow, for some sort of social, cultural, something. And she likes that kind of go-getter attitude because she knows she's capable of it. So she chooses him because of that initial, like, wow, this is how I want to run things. And also because Eric is the only one that reaches a handout to her and maybe not even really reaches a handout,

but he says, I see you. I see you for everything that you are. I know that you belong here. I see that you are like me and I have your back. And everyone says, oh, I'll be like all the other people who are reaching out to her in those ways. She can't connect to them personally. You can say to someone all day like, I'm here for you, but until that person feels an emotional connection, tethered in some way, without you saying I'm here for you, you know, it's really hard to believe the person.

But Eric has actually said, I see, you made this horrible mistake. And I know that you don't have the credentials to be here. But I want you to be here anyway. And he's the only one standing in the way of that, you know? Yeah. He could have been gone in a heartbeat. I love when he says like the two times to tell me about you fucking up when you do it and when you've made it unfucked or whatever the line is.

And I was like, that's the realest thing anyone says to anyone on the show really. Like, because everything else is like this altruistic kind of babble. And Eric is just like, no, this is you, you understand what I mean. Like everybody fucks up. The time to tell me about it is immediately or much later, you know? Also, he gave her twice as much money. I mean, I feel like this idea of it being a meritocracy, like he actually wrote the check,

which I feel like is different than saying, I will be your ally for the years ahead or whatever as we change the culture of this, whatever it is that Dari is spilling to her. Right, and Harper doesn't even really care about the culture. She wants the money. She's there for the money. She's there for the success.

So you can offer her all kinds of... No. No, she really doesn't want to be in the brochure. So one of the things that I feel like, I can't imagine much has dimmed this experience because the show has been received so well. And all of you seem to be having great time, which makes watching it a great time. But you were robbed of having a premiere because of the world that we're living in at the moment. I was wondering how it's been watching the show.

Are you, is there a very vibrant text chain? How in touch are you with the writers, the showrunners, your co-stars, your whole other life that is over there. And, you know, and hopefully you'll get back too soon. Yeah, I mean, I felt crushed that I couldn't be with all of them. And I felt very singled out as well. Like me and Ken are the only ones who aren't even within, you know, relative proximity to everyone else. However, when the show aired, we did get to watch it first.

So there's a little plus there. That's good. But, yeah, I mean, I don't know what it's like to have a premiere, not in lockdown. So for me, I was just as excited and just as grateful for all the opportunity. I mean, like, doing this literally is everything to me. So the fact that I get to do it at home and in my sweats, like, I don't have to get dressed or anything.

That is a huge plus for me. I would, I mean, that's fine. I'm happy to do that. I like being at home. So not being able to be with the cast, with my friends who I love so much and, like, experience it together. Like, that's a bummer. But the most important thing to me is that people find joy from the show, and it feels like they have.

And I feel really grateful that we get to do it again. Yeah. So, you know, premieres, they come and they go, and there will be more one day. Can you, so we had Conrad and Mickey on, and then like, and they were like, we don't know, we don't know mate. We don't know if it's coming back. And then a day later, it got renewed. And so I get it. Maybe they had a good feeling.

Maybe they didn't know for sure. We don't blame them. can you spill it? Like, did you know? How did you find out? Because I believe you then Instagram like a script. Is that correct?

Does like 201 exist? I mean, maybe, but I'm pretty sure, well, I don't literally, I don't know, but I'm pretty sure they just made that. Right. Who knows if the script is actually there? I didn't read it.

I didn't know. I mean, just because I had faith in the project and myself and Mickey and Conrad above all, I was like, if this doesn't go again, it has to be because of some, like a meteor,

to hit the earth. Because like there's there's just a wealth, a wealth of possibilities with all of these storylines and these characters. And Mickey and Conrad are genius. And I just, I mean, I would have been crushed if we didn't go again. I would just have to move to London.

So I'd hang out with my friends. I had a very strong inkling or faith. And HBO responded well to it. So I thought maybe. Of course, there's always a possibility that it will not. There's only two options, but I did not know. I found out, I think the day before they publicly,

I found out like, you know, I was actually, I was actually, this is quite funny. I was asleep. I was asleep at a hotel. And my managers, I guess were texting me and I wasn't responding because I was asleep. And they called the hotel and the hotel phone rang. And I was, you know, like took my eye mask off. I was like, hello. And I hear Laura, Hannah.

say, you're going for a second season. I said, what? She said, you're going for a second season. I went, man, I told these. I fucking knew. Like literally half-asleep cursing, cursing at my managers. And then there was like silence on the other end. And I said, oh, not you guys, not you, not you guys.

I just, you know, I just mean like, I just knew it. I'm sorry, I'm literally asleep. I was so embarrassed. I really just like, no professionalism within the first, you know, five minutes of me waking up from slumber. But yeah, I found out just to the day before everyone else. And I was just stoked. I was like, yes.

That must be so cool, though, because in some ways, I bet, like, getting that second season is, like, almost more of a confirmation of the project than getting the first season. Because it's, like, it means people really, like, went for, I mean, this has become something that, you know, from it airing. And people being like, man, you get really, like, everybody should check out industry. Industry is really good. And now it's, like, climbing up people's top 10 lists. and I feel like it's become very much like I've seen a lot of memes. We've got a lot of like no context industry screenshots popping up everywhere. That must be really cool too to see it become like it belongs to people now instead of just you guys.

Yeah, that was, I think that was, it was so funny because people were like, how do you feel after the premiere? And I was like, I mean, in the literal minutes up until the first episode was available to watch, I was like suddenly panicking. I was like, I know it's lovely. I really love it. It's good. I imagine I think I have good taste.

So hopefully other people will like it. Why am I so nervous? And then as soon as it dropped, it was like this huge wave of relief. Like now it belongs to everyone. This show is not just ours. You know, we're not just hoarding it. It's not just our own little like thing that we did a year and change ago.

Now it literally belongs to everyone and everyone gets to engage in it. And it's nice to watch people have the same like reaction and like build a relationship. with a show that I did when I first got the script. Like, if I could have, I would have been making no context memes about the script when I first got it. That is really no context. That is. Truly.

I mean, I didn't want to go to jail, so, you know, but I would have if I could have. Do you have any sense of a timeline? Do you know when you might be expected to get back over there and will you have to go on like a ship, like in a, like mylar around you? Jet ski across the swim. Yeah. But you would, I guess.

Yeah. So no official word yet. I imagine they will try to have a similar schedule to the previous year because, you know, Bad Wolf has other shows they have to do. It's not just industry. So I imagine. But if they asked me, I would be there tomorrow. You know.

Can you speak Welsh now? Because you were in Wales, right? You were in Cardiff. No. No, I wasn't. We were in Cardiff. And no, Welsh is, Welsh is, surprise. surprisingly difficult. Even for like, I'm really bad at accents. Like nobody asked me to do accents.

It's just like endgame for me. But even like, like Harry's quite good at accents and he's like, Welsh is pretty difficult. It's because they. It's like half a hobbit. It's tough, man. It's like, I mean, it's a beautiful language when you finally like get the rhythm of it. There's so much joy in it. But it's also for my ear, I was like, what in the heck kind of what's going on? Here's the log line for Welch. So much joy, so few vowels. Yeah. Oh my gosh.

I remember my mom came to visit and we were driving and there was, you know, we were driving along and there's like a sign for a place. And she was like, now tell me which word has 13 consonant letters from the alphabet. What does that say? And the driver was like, oh, this like Newcastle, you know, it wasn't that. But, you know, there were exactly that like zero vowels. mostly consonants and it ended up only being like three sounds. It was very wild.

Well, Mahala, thank you so much for joining us today and thank you so much for all the amazing work you did on the first season of industry. We're so glad we're going to get to see another season. Thank you so much, so much. It's been so fun for us because we have to watch, we watch a lot of shows, we like a lot of shows, but to watch this show in particular

with all you guys' faces we haven't seen before but now we can't get enough of like just a point of view. It's certainly a world I did not understand at all. is a thrill and we're so happy you get to do more and thank you for talking to us. My pleasure, you guys. This was such a joy.

Thanks for having me.