The Watch - Your Summer TV Lineup: ‘Task,’ ‘The Bear’ Season 4, and ‘Welcome to Derry.’ Plus, ‘The Last of Us’ S2E6.

Episode Date: May 20, 2025

Chris and Andy talk about the trailers that were released this week for the Mark Ruffalo Philly detective show ‘Task’ (12:44), the final season of ‘The Bear’ (25:24), and the ‘It’ prequel series, ‘Welcome to Derry’ (35:03). Then they talk about Episode 6 of ‘The Last of Us,’ a penultimate episode in a season that has felt abrupt (38:57). Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Producer: Kaya McMullen Video Production and Editing: Jon Jones Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hello, and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at the ringer.com and joining me in the studio, sweet birthday baby. It's Andy Greenwald. Come on. Come on. 40 years old.

Thank you. Yeah. For the eighth time, it's awesome. Thank you. Dog, we're getting old up on here, you know? Yeah, but this is your favorite six months of the year when I'm a little bit further down the track. I know. You can tell me all about your experiences that I haven't had yet.

Quite wise. Quite wise. But you, it's not today. We took the day off for a number of reasons, but thank you. I was traveling back from the beautiful state of Oregon where I was golfing with some homies. Yeah, can I ask you a couple things about that? You want to do a rundown? Yeah, we're going to talk about the task trailer. We're going to talk about the bear trailer. We're going to talk a little bit about the Welcome to Dairy trailer. I know that's top of your mind because New England and generational horror and trauma. And clowns.

Yeah, is some of your favorite stuff. Have you aged out of that? clowns? Yeah. Oh. Did you have a clown at your birthday? My whole birthday was me doing the clown meme. Yeah. Just slowly putting on my own.

And you know we got to hit T-L-O-U, the last of us. The penultimate episode aired on Sunday night. And what else? You can see us on Instagram all that. Watchpot underscore and Instagram. The watch at Spotify.com. Kind of honestly, crickets in that inbox. Guess you guys don't love us.

way else you can watch us on the ringer dash TV on YouTube and you can watch us where you listen to us on Spotify do you want to sign us up for some substacks just so that like it seems like we have more business in that email address I mean that that inbox was really popping during the pit and then it's the doctors all the doctors wrote us and then nobody wanted to talk about andor okay how about this if it's only for doctors I do have kind of a weird red mark on my arm that people don't like talking I mean I was curious about it Was it a bug bite? You don't know. Okay, I have a couple questions for you.

I have some questions for you. Hit me. Go ahead. This is beautiful. It's a free-flowing conversation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Congratulations on your golf weekend. I think it's really fun and I think it's great.

There's no, no, there's no skepticism. I love this. I was actually envious because I, too, would like to go to a nice place and walk around outside with friends, but I don't want to do the golf. Right. So I would just walk. I wouldn't necessarily what I call, do what I call golf. You know what I mean? Like, it is slapping a ball with.

the metallic rod and hoping it goes 80 yards ahead of me. The Skydie Shepleer, right? I had some speethy moments. Do you don't know what that means? But Jordan Spieth rescues defeat from the jaws of victory a lot. Oh, that's my whole life. And I did that. There was a couple of like, did I just kill an endangered bird?

Who knows, I have a great shot going in, you know, kind of stuff. But awesome. Oregon is just gorgeous. But here's the thing. You texted me at the end of your Saturday, just a little glit. just a little glimpse of your Fitbit or whatever. And there was smoke coming out of it. Yes.

It's a long walk. It's five rounds and three days and it's all walking. But also, you presumably are golfing, at least in the way that I've seen it done on television to a degree. So you're moving your arms and you're swinging. It's exactly the way you see it on television. So what I'm, you know, you are an athlete of the mind. You know what I mean? You spend every hour of every day in studios like this just, just doing calisthenics with your thoughts and your opinions.

not with your rotator cuffs. How did you do this? How did you suddenly go from zero to 60 miles, literally, in a weekend? And how are you sitting here right now? I'm wondering whether I should apply this to all sports and whether I should start just trying, you know, should I go to the NBA draft combine? Yeah. And participate, you know, and see if... Just participate.

Me and Ace and Dylan. A walk on. Yeah. I did several weeks of a 15-minute yoga stretching routine that I found on YouTube. I didn't know about this. And while I was out on the course, I ate many protein balls that were made of hemp hearts and chocolate chips. Hemp hearts? Yeah.

What's up? Do you know what that is? Like, I don't know. I don't know. Does the plant have a heart? I don't know. Do they just try to appeal to the inner less the Mohicans in you? That's how you have to get it out.

You reach like Magua and just like jam your fucking fist into a hemp. Wow. Yeah. Okay, that's good. There were moments of real doubt on my part. You know what I mean? Like I was really, really. really, really did not want to come back with chronic back pain or with like a really bad injury.

And I did not. Because here's the birthday angle on this, right? So yesterday I did celebrate my birthday and I decided to celebrate it like something I know makes me feel good. So I did a long run. I was running around the Rose Bowl here in Pasadena, which includes a golf course with a lot of signs. Being like, being like, you are by being in this space, you are forgiving us for your potential death. Liability. So I was thinking, I hope it wasn't too speehy out there today.

And so I had a really nice run, just like six, six and a half miles, no big deal, felt good, went back to the car. And I had a small mandarin orange that I was going to use to replenish myself. I'm sorry, a heart. You were really adorable. And I sat for a second, right, just to get the orange going to get out of the sun. And I sat and I felt something. I was like, oh, huh, okay, that's a little bit of a pain. Maybe I sat wrong and I stood up.

And then for the next 20 minutes, I had the most excruciating body agony where I could. couldn't lift my arm and it was radiating to the bottom of my rib cage. Was it because someone had hit a six iron into your spinal column? But I am also now of the age and of the neurotic mentality where I was like, hmm, seems like I really cramped something or, Paging Noah Wiley. Cancer of the arm. Therassic explosion occurred. And this is it.

And I was like, man, I don't want to die on the 134 with orange peel all over me. Where do you want to die? In this studio, podcasting my ideas. with you. The year is 2039. Andy and Chris are like, do you remember an Andor? No.

When Lonnie is on the bench. Year's 2039. And I'm like, I just feel like... President John Ossoff has made it National Andor Day. That is best case scenario. Give me a Viking funeral if that's what happens. Jesus, that's great. You say it was 2089?

39. 39. Yeah. Okay. Oh, that's when we're, oh, wait, so I've got 14 years left. Yeah. Severance season, well, probably be Severn season four at that point. Dude, I, somebody was, one of our, one of our buddies was like, we'll be doing this in 20 years. And I was, no, golfing out in far-fung places.

Yeah. And I was like, I will be close to 70 then. I will not be golfing. Or maybe that's all I'll do. That's what people do then. Yeah. Yeah. Come on.

I'm not going to be walking five rounds. I'll tell you that. I'll be the guy in the cart with two medellos. Yeah, that's smart. I just I read the news That's not cool Because you like golf

Because you respect No, it's not cool for John Elway All right Well, he made his decisions Listen Listen This is 100% don't We're gonna tell Kyle

What that joke is And then she's gonna be like We can't have that in the I guess I just Googled it We got a store All of this All right

Okay so I did want to ask you back golf I had one other thing that I wanted to fire off. Please. This is your time. You got this hour. Okay, thank you. What's the next hour? Oh, it's the big picture.

I, um, as, as you know, and as, as listeners, maybe alluded to this, I did have a, uh, 14, 15 day run of, of solo parenting. And near the end of it, I was like, you know what, let's fire up something that I, that the dad liked, you know. With the kids. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And I also was kind of, this wasn't like a one for me, one for them kind of thing. I was like, I genuinely think that they might enjoy this.

And the movie I fired up was... Girls, drive my car. Yee, by Edward Yang in the Criterion Collection. Karate Kid. Yeah. I fired up the karate kid, which when we were seven, that was the greatest movie I'd ever seen. That was never really my thing.

What? Yeah. You weren't into the karate kid? Not really, yeah. Look at this face. I thought like the duck thing. What was it? What's that?

The crane? The crane. Duck thing. What's he do at the end? Crane, yeah. That was cool. But like the rest of the story, I was like. So you were bored for 90 minutes until he raised his foot and kicked a dude in the face?

Yes. Yeah. Was your set, 1984, mostly like the one friend who let you, whose parents let him rent Commando? You know what I was. In like Kentucky Fried movie? Like, that was your. You know it was. Because I saw this.

Or I was at that kid's house. Yeah. But by the time you get to the, if you're watching Commando when Karate Kid comes out, it's hard to step on the package like that. I am really shook up here because I thought I was coming out of this podcast with an ally and a friend and you'd be like, that movie is everything. And I'm watching it. And it's like better than I remember.

It's still really, it's just good. They're making another one. And I got another one come out. Karate Kid Legends or something like that. I believe it's karate kid duck kick. My, I bring this up to say, for me, it's still hit. I loved everything about it. And also, I noticed that there was some real class stuff going on that I had to

appreciated before. A Marxist reading of the original Well, there's, when Daniel goes to pick up Allie from the country club and Johnny, her parents are encouraging her to dance with Johnny and he comes in through the kitchen and he sees them, you know, anyway, they could not have been more bored. I think they would have preferred it if I had just made them sit on the couch with nothing on the screen for 90 minutes. They hated it so much.

and I've done a little crowdsourcing. I couldn't crowdsource with you because you were out there eating the hearts of hemp. Yes. But some feedback I got was that, oh, this was always going to be a strikeout

because this is, and I quote, a dude movie. I mean, it's about dudes. Kaya, I'm sorry. You are, I have to turn to you here. Have you ever seen the original karate kid film? So I haven't seen the original karate kid, but I have seen like basically all seasons

of the Netflix. Oh, yeah, Cobra Kai. Oh, yeah. Wait, that is, this feels like a unique thing. It's a weird oversight. I should watch the karate kid. It's not. It's generational.

I mean, like, why would Kaya go back and why would you, Kaya have watched? Because when Daniel Rousseau shows up in season four, she's like, who's this boyish 55-year-old, probably? Yeah, pretty much. And yet, that ditch was never scratched. Okay, wow, this is, I'm learning a lot. You feel like you know two people. When your choices are rejected in this matter, do you feel like? Like I'm being rejected?

Yeah. No, I've gotten over that. Okay. I've gotten over that. That's good. For my birthday, they gave me the gift of I was allowed to pick the songs during the eight-minute drive to school.

What did you pick? Death Heaven. Tribute to my friend, Chris. No, I was like, I did play them a pavement song. Good. Do they like it? What do you think? At some point, we should talk about pavements documentary. Oh, yeah. I've seen some movies recently.

I know you have. Why don't we bunch those all together for Andy's Cinema Festival, you know? Yeah, so people can kind of tune out. Well, no, but like if we get to see Mission Impossible this weekend, we can put together all the films that you've seen recently and just run a down. Guys, four weeks ago, I saw friendship and it was funny. That's my review. Let's talk about some TV that's coming up later in the summer and early fall.

And the most important thing... Oh, you're right, it was Karate Kid Legends. I'm embarrassed. Well, I saw it on a poster when I was going to see. Final Destination Bloodlines. By the way, you didn't blink when you just said that. It's a really important movie. Do you know that one thing,

obviously I've never seen any of these movies. I don't know why. They're really funny. Well, I did see a clip from one of the movies that was pretty funny. I didn't realize how over the top they are. But one thing that I appreciate is that, well, I think it is relatively known that I don't watch horror movies. There's now a small cottage industry of friends

who call me as they exit the theater from horror movies. You called me. Tim Simons called me saying, hey, guess what I just did? And I was like, did you just see Final Destination Bloodlines? And he was like, how did you know? Did he really? Did he like it? Yeah. Why don't you have him in this chair? I want to talk to you a little bit about task, which is the new HBO cop drama from Brad Inglesby, who gave us mayor of Easttown. Every time I say Mayor of Easttown, does it sound like I'm saying Mayor of Easttown, it does. Of course it does. Brad Engelsby, who did Mayor of East Town.

The trailer dropped last week and aired before this Last of Us episode on Sunday. Yeah. We just missed it. I think it dropped as we were recording last week. I want to say something here. Thank God. Sometimes there's a show. I won't say a hero because what's a hero, right?

But sometimes there's a show, and I'm talking about task here. Sometimes there's a show, well, it's the show for its time and place. And that's task. And the time and place is whatever time it is wherever you are. You may be saying to yourself, Andy, Chris, weren't you guys just pumping dope thief like six weeks ago? Yeah. And isn't this show a Philadelphia set home invasion cop drama? Early similar to dope thief?

More so than I would have expected, yeah, at least in its premise. But I may be at 47-year-old child free. This is my son. task is my child. I can't believe how it felt. A, when I saw Allison Oliver, and I was just like, I can't believe the conversations with friends gang is back.

There's a lot. There's some good faces in this show. It stars Mark Ruffalo and Tom Pelfrey. Tom Pelfrey, who we haven't gotten in a big, juicy role since Ozark, I would venture a guest to say, I haven't looked at his IMDB. This is the kind of research you come to us for.

But a Delco, cop drama where Mark Ruffalo is leading a rag-tag task force to investigate a spate of home invasions in the Philadelphia area. He's being directed by his captain, his superior, played by Martha Plimpton

in genius casting. And while we watch this seemingly exclusively shot at night show in its trailer, Guns and Rose's patience is playing the crescendo of that song. I'm like, neither here nor there about Guns and Roses.

I think the great songs hit harder than anything ever recorded. Yeah. But like as far as the mythology as deep cuts. Axel and slash and everything like whatever. This is a great song. And when this song peaks, you might as well drink a bottle full of molly water. And the fact that it peaks, they play the crescendo while all these dudes in bulletproof vests kick down doors and guys ride motorcycles. I'm so ready for this to just be in my life, dude.

First of all, I was thrilled because when I saw the trailer for many reasons, like you laid out, first and foremost, you have that mask, I believe. I do. Yeah, I wore it on the golf course for three straight days. That's why I didn't get hurt. I also want to say that, like, for as much as we may get dinged sometimes for, I don't know, not preparing a lot or, you know, not Googling. No, nobody gets mad at us about that. You seem to have taken this trailer, which you viewed last week, and then gone to. off like Alexander Hamilton

of the Federalist papers. No, this actually, honestly, like, when it comes to shit like this, I took the limitless pill. Like, I immediately, the screen disappeared and it was just ones and zeros and I understand the code. And it's just like, I know

when it's time for me to step up and I will step up for task. I will do 13-hour podcasts about every episode if you want. Can we talk about, let's talk about how deep the cast is then. Go. Right, because you mentioned your gal Alison Oliver.

Anyone in the Rooney Diaspora gets a pass from us, right? Absolutely. Also, the fact that she's playing like a young cop, that's cool. Raoul Castillo, who's great on... He's so good in looking. He's so good and looking. Amelia Jones, who you remember from your best picture winner, Cota. I haven't seen it? Did you not see it? Never saw Cota. I thought you were a movie podcaster. You just didn't see it. Every once in a while, I just, I press eject. I'm not technically on the big picture.

I'm roving third chair and I don't have to do things I don't want to do. How did you score that gig? I didn't. It's just say I have an irrepressible personality and he keeps inviting me back on, you know? You do know yourself. That is self-diagnosis. Isaac DeBankoulet, the great actor from Jim Jarmish movies and any other movies. Come on, say his name.

I'm not there yet. Wait, who? Double F, dog, Fabian Frankel. I was saving it. Okay, because I think there's other like great, those. guys, guys like Margarita Leveva, who was just on Daredevil and the Deuce. I had one other one. Mickey Sumner?

Oh, yeah. I mean, who can pick among Sting's children, but she's one of my favorites. Yeah. But then, yeah, then there's the question mark. You want to talk about Fabian Frankel? He's your knight of the Seven Kingdoms. I have big things planned for Fabian in the show. Okay.

I think I actually came to really appreciate him on Dragon. and there's something about his swagger. Okay. And I've seen a few, like, Instagram reels where he's talk, he's very excited to debut the Philly accent. And he was very excited to get involved with local Philadelphia cuisine. And all the British people on House the Dragon are just like whatever. But he's just like, no, it's all about hoagies and cheese steaks and yada.

Right. I just can't wait to see this kid and see what you. he's got cooking. First of all, I don't, having spent a lot of time in London recently, and some of the best restaurants I've ever been to, that said, I think in terms of, like, food ways, I think cheese steaks and hoagies are right down the middle for our friends across the ocean. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like they understand. But for them, it's a flavor bomb. They're like, where is all of this umami and so. Do you think? I mean, have you ever like jacket potatoes or like, you know. No, for them, when they come to Philly and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and,

and the grease hits. Like, you don't think they're like, what are these exotic flavors that are hitting? Grease? Dude, I like eating in England. Yes. But it's, the seasoning part is on the customer there.

Like, they don't pre, they don't salt the food very well. Like, they, like it's a lot of, I know you like a clean piece of fish. I do.

I do. I'm looking at the camera. And you like to take a little picture of some haddock and just be like, look at my little haddock. I'm completely untouched by flavor. This is what people tune into. You, irrepressible, joyful person.

People want to be around. Me? I'm happy with a piece of steamfish. Yeah. And yet we make it work. I know. But I'm into this. Ingalls be creating.

Oh, go ahead. But Pelfrey is from Jersey. Yeah. Me and Pelfrey, we built on a podcast after Ozark. And I told him during COVID. It was like real deep COVID. But the NFL draft was. was like the first thing that was live.

It was like, we'd just come watching last dance and stuff. And so I was just like, anything that even pertains to possible future athletics happening, I'm so excited. And was he with you? No, I did a Zoom interview with him. Was he with you in terms? He's a huge Giants fan. And so I was just like, I was just talking about the NFL draft so intensely.

He was like, I'm really happy for you, man. I'm glad the draft's coming. Do you think that he, oh, because he would, but he had to be in Philipsy. this last magic championship season. I'm sure it was a difficult time for him. But do you think that fueled the performance? Wait, my entire expectations for the show just went up a notch, knowing that this haunted performance was fueled by watching Sequin.

I think they shot it maybe mid-season, mid-egal season. I don't think they were still shooting during the playoffs. They knew what was coming. They knew. They knew. And look, I know Mark Roybal, one of the producers, is a diehard 49ers fan. So I feel like there's a lot of, like, that's good. And they had to sit in it, you know?

Well, don't make me alarmed that all these giants and Niners fans have somehow undermined this show. I don't think they undermined it. I think this is what it's going to have to feel like for us now to be winners. They had to like sit in it. I don't know. This show is going to be awesome. See? Can't wait.

The only thing I wanted to say is just Ingalls B creating a Pelicanos-esque or Lehane-esque interconnected crime tapestry of the Delaware Valley is something that I'm incredibly. interested in participating in. And Mark Ruffalo hasn't looked this hardcore since collateral. Oh, that's a great performance of collateral. It's a great goatee. If I could grow a goatee, it would be that. You'd want to be like that. Would you? Slick back hair. Yeah. Shirt, shirt, button all the way up, rolling through L.A., goatee. Just curious about Pedro. Just lots of things for you to learn in your night on earth. Literally, your night.

That's part M, right? What? Par Dem. Yeah, it's part of them. But I feel like Ruffalo like. Dude, he's so good. It's a great movie. Should we just podcast? Should we just talk about collateral? Has the Ringer ever considered a movie podcast? Or we go back and watch old ones?

Yeah. Yeah. I'll last bill. Yeah. I think it would go over well. This is just directed by, the episodes were directed by Jeremiah Zagar, who did the Adam Sandler movie Hustle, the basketball movie. And also, of note, Sally Richardson Whitfield, who did a handful of episodes of winning time and Gilded Age.

So just wanted to mention that. By the way, any concerns, any, like, concern to... You know that Jeremiah is from Philadelphia. I figured, yeah. Because the... You figured someone had to be... It was a hustle set in Philly, too. Yeah.

I mean, is it like... Huh. I'm trying to think of it. Like, I feel like there ought to be... As part of these tax breaks that cities offer or states offer, there should be some requirement that there has to be some local supervision. Do you know what I mean? So, like...

there should have like you know my my go-to example is is when a baby driver was like we are in New York City everything's like peach tree state building

they should have just there should have been someone there to be like like Rembert should have been hired as the Atlanta advisor sure to just like let's be honest so you think we should have been brought on to just filly it up

I mean for for dope thief too yeah yeah because that was not Philly enough among its many other problems the only thing I wanted to mention otherwise is We don't obviously get much of a plot other than there's a crew taking down scores and these cops have to go find them. I don't know where what like what Pelfree is, is he an ex cop?

Is he a cop? Like I don't know how like deep it gets there. He's haunted. But, you know, heat in Philly is kind of what I dream about. So I'm just super excited. We can talk a little bit about another show we're obviously huge fans of that is coming back. Do you think? I just want to say, like, we talked last week about the Max becoming HBO Max again,

and we were saying, like, do you think Casey Blois was, like, burning a hole in his pocket knowing that it was changing, but still he still had to sort of explain the difference again as recently as, like, his appearance on The Town podcast? Do you feel like he was also dying last Thursday when he dropped the task trailer on a day we record a podcast? But like after the fact. But you hadn't talked about it yet? Yeah.

I'm sure. I'm sure that was keeping him up a date. Do you think he has, like, what do you, Casey, what have you got for me? CR hasn't checked in yet. I want to talk to you about the bear coming back. Okay. So we are not too far out from the big binge drop. I hope that works out for them.

It seems to be doing okay. Yeah, I mean, it's really just a personal grievance. You know what I mean? Like, I understand there takes all kinds. We've obviously grappled with the three episodes at a time thing with Andor. We've worked our way through episodic week-to-week releases. the binges are the binges. You do what you can.

Obviously, FX has data that shows everybody likes to watch the bear in this fashion. And they're now used to it. I mean, that is the expectation. You know what it's like? I don't know if you've ever been to a restaurant, but sometimes at restaurants, they're like, things are just going to come out when the kitchen is ready.

I'm not a fan of that. No, I have that. I'm not a fan of that. I'm not a bit of the salad coming after, like, a hot app, you know? You know who? I could do that. Yeah. Like, if I was cooking, I promise you, I will not course it.

out. It will just hit. So if I'm paying you at the restaurant, maybe you help me with that part of the job. What were your initial thoughts after watching the season four trailer for The Bear? I felt, it's hard to, okay, you tell me, is this just confirming my priors because I watched this trailer? And I was like, oh, there's story here. There's more for this to go. Because I think that, you know, a sort of mixed reaction to season three, some highs. Not lows, but a lot of mid, I think, in terms of moving the ball forward or episodes feeling like they had the structure of what we've come to expect as episodes. The fact that, at least for the purposes of this trailer, it felt sharp, it felt direct. There's literally a ticking clock for the survival of this restaurant.

It was a reminder of how much was left, if I may, on the table last season, but also a reminder that there is some dramatic arc here that the show kind of treaded water. in last time. Yeah. So I was happy to see my pals again. I thought it was interesting that Eben Moss Bachrack delivers essentially the same line in this that he does in the Fantastic Four trailer, where he goes, okay.

He also does the Maximus line from Gladiator, where he's like, on my command, unleash hell. Not familiar with that. Me and Christor are just like seeing each other across time and space. Do you think that if we have a slow week this summer, we could just do the 10 things that absolutely were made just for you. My list would be shorter.

Mine would be the time that after I became friends or, you know, after I started to like the leftovers, Damon named Justin Thro's horse Andy because they had ridden me. That's my contribution to the culture. Yeah. I feel like you have a lot more bespoke. Yeah, like Anna Karenina. Like that was for you?

Yeah. Okay. Like Tolstoy was like one day. It's going to be a little homie. One day there's an irrepressible kid. In Philadelphia, when he turns 47, he's going to try and see if his brain still works. So he's going to read this book one chapter a day. And it won't work.

I guess I wanted to ask you what were the questions that still need to be answered by the bear. Like, I watch this show for the experience, for the vibe, for the filmmaking, for the music, for the performances. It's a very, I don't know, almost. You know how you go to restaurants for atmosphere? I go to the bear for atmosphere in some ways. I feel like, obviously, can Carmie keep together and keep this restaurant open? Is Sid interested in pursuing a professional life with somebody who she deems to be pre-volatile in Carmi? You know, there's the family aspect of it.

There's Richie's kind of maturity. But there is, you know, Oliver Platt being like, you only have this much time to make this restaurant successful. Brian Coppillman says it too. That's true. I don't know whether the bear staying open or not is actually why I'm watching the show, but this is a real, like, concern-troll. No, look, I think you can.

If you do watch the show the way clearly we don't, there are unanswered questions. Like, the review dropped, what does it say? And the trailer sort of suggests that maybe it's not a four-star rave. There are specific character beats and character journeys. I think the thing that I'm interested in, and I know I said this, at length that we were discussing season three is where the show nets out on

the subject of fine dining and of perfectionism and what it does to people and whether the goal is ever worth the journey. And there's some hints that the show is probably going, and I mean, I sort of believe that the show is going to end in a more psychologically balanced place

that may or may not involve some sandwich shop aspects coming back into play. But remember the thing last year, which was the, it was, frustrating because it didn't go anywhere. It was just this like dumping of trauma on the table where it's like chaos men you were changing every night and that's the only way to win. There's stuff

in the trailer suggesting that maybe chaos isn't how to have a successful business slash life. So I'm curious to see where it nets out on that. Broadly speaking like you, I've never watched the show to find out what happened to the Russian and Pine Barrens.

I like hanging out with these people. I like the way the show is performed and shot. I think I texted to do this when the announcement came that it was coming next month. I did think it was interesting and maybe it changed today because I didn't see I didn't really look into the marketing materials.

But none of them said final season. You're not even the first person to mention this and I guess I don't have an answer for that. It never occurred to me that there would be more bare. Possibly because of just what we already know about the direction of people's careers.

I suppose... Including Chris's. If I had to make a guess that Maddie Matheson is like actually the most sort of viable person you could make a fun show about, that would actually still be like, yes, I'm not in the Fantastic Four or a Luca Guadino movie or Bruce Springsteen movie. Although I would like to see him in all three of those things. He is the next Herald of Galactus. I think that it, I guess I was surprised because it is often a way to juice ratings and attention and ultimately award consistent. when you make a big deal saying like one last service. I also think, again, no actual inside knowledge in this. We've not talked to Chris, I think since the last time he was on the podcast.

But I am sure there were informal conversations, even if they were just sitting around craft services being like, what if, about how they could continue to be in this business one way or another. I'm sure. But they filmed this for the most part last year when they filmed season three. So it's not like this has been, it's not like the larger restaurants. restaurant of the show has stayed open for the last year. Right. So I guess, you know, it could be a simple thing. And maybe one of our friends from FX will email us and be like, oh, here's why we do that or

don't do that. Strangely, this is the kind of show that I would not be averse to them revisiting in 10 years or in eight years. It's like, where is Karmie now? Where are these people now? They decide to come together to do something, you know? Can I recommend for people who like the bear and are waiting for the next month to recommend an article review that came out from the San Francisco Chronicle.

over the last few days. Sure, man. The new food critic went to pay her respects and also observe the French laundry. And Thomas Keller... Kevin Newsom's favorite. Your governor's number one spot. He...

Do you listen to his podcast? I've seen clips. You didn't answer my question. I mean, I've seen clips. I've not fired it up, but, you know, I think that that's a great use of a governor's time. I totally are doing what we do.

Someone who loves to pod. I get it. the, so Thomas Keller, the founder and owner. That's really cooking over here, so. Not fine, we're good. Got on autopilot. What does he think about the Welcome to Dairy trailer? Oh, I can tell you, I just saw it on my drive down here. Gavin Newsom would probably be a sick third chair for us.

Yeah, like people should do what they want to do. And if what you want to do is be a podcaster, by all means, come on in. The water is crowded, but feels fine. You know what I mean? Yeah. I, in the other hand, have no designs on higher office. I would rather not be an elected official of California. Sure.

So anyway, Thomas Keller, French Laundries, his restaurant. He made a memorable appearance in the season three finale. Yeah. Basically telling... Showing Carmie how to do a chicken. But his life story, too. And it was very moving, I think. I thought that was moving.

I thought it was sweet. And it was a different angle on a chef that some people are, a titan of the industry that some people are in awe of or afraid of. But he's sort of had... He's been getting kicked a lot. like the New York Times revisited per se and was like, this isn't very good. And then the New York Times did it again. Your girl Melissa Clark did a double.

What did you do? And you had the two guns on the subway, was it? That's what Melissa Clark did to French laundry and per se. Yeah. And so... Why? Well, so it's a complicated conversation. I think the larger thing is that these restaurants are titans.

They cast a long shadow. They are incredibly expensive. And for people who have that money and want to like splurge, they still are a huge destination. But why did you do the double drive-by? 20th anniversary and 30th anniversary of per se and French laundry respectively. And basically, a lot of it can be boiled down to, like, we are all now living in this chef's world,

but grandpa maybe isn't keeping pace anymore. Okay. And so anyway, the new critic went to the French laundry under us. She is not anonymous. She has a photo of herself, but she did book it anonymously with friends to review it again two years after the last Must be nice. Previous critic reviewed it.

Keller had her removed from the dining room to meet him in the garden. Really? So he could say, what are your intentions here? And talked about basically, like, very vulnerably about, like, how he's attacked. Well, he's... Sounds like he's become a little bit of a punching bag. And it was going to ask her to almost kick them out and then said, no, no, actually, I'm going to cook for you. And then wouldn't let her pay, even though that ran afoul of, like, anyway, it's a whole thing.

She wrote very... I thought it was a very well-written piece. Like, captured his humanity, but also this is a crazy situation. if you're interested in the bear and the toll of restaurants, but also like what role any of these sort of fine dining places play or ought to play in our lives,

I thought it was really a smart piece. That's a great recommendation from you. San Francisco Chronicle? What if it wasn't? What if I was just like... Oh, sorry, it was the East Bay Express. Yeah, I believe so. Okay, so we're excited for the bear.

Welcome to Derry. It's just the It prequel. Also coming from HBO. I believe that's in the fall. Bill Scarsgaard. returning to the role of Pennywise, the clown that steals children and pulls them into the sewer for a life of hell.

Go on. And is he available on Mondays and Wednesdays? I think he's a few blocks from our office here in scenic downtown Los Angeles. He's actually guesting on Gavin Newsom's spot. Pennywise! You and I are on both sides. The opposite sides of the aisle.

I want to reach out and see, what are some of your concerns? I'm interested in all constituencies. like sometimes you just want to grab kids and he's like well no I can see that and I respect your choice as a guy who lives in the sewer I just don't get a lot of natural light what can we do about that can we all agree penny wise that we love children we love their laughter can we all agree that they brighten our lives now we may disagree on how to engage with children I take them to lunch at the French laundry so they learn about truffles you take them to a demonic hellscape

but we're all just learning uh we're all just learning this looks cool. And I am going into it with open heart and open eyes because if Andor taught me anything, it's like you can make cool shit out of any of the prequel lead up stuff.

I need you on this one. And the reason I need you is I am not it ignorant. I was a very big fan of the 80s miniseries. Starring Tim Curry. And I believe also Harry Anderson was in it. It was one of those classic And this series comes from Andy Machete who did the movies.

But I don't really remember the miniseries enough, and I don't know what made the movies particularly good or gripping or special, so much so that we should have an expectation from this. Can you explain that to me? Derry is obviously the frequently returned to setting for a lot of Stephen King's stories. They tried a couple of years ago with Castle Rock to do a what if we did a kind of anthology-ish show, right? Was Castle Rock Anthology or was it

or was it just set in a town in Maine where all the stuff? I can't remember. No, it was going to be a, I mean, it was a season, it was a story that folded in all of the pieces. With a lot of the different characters, right? Lizzie Kaplan played the misery

woman, right? Yes. And there was to be a suggestion that in a potential season two, right, they would fold in more stories and it would somehow be some unified theory of the king verse. Which I'm open to discussing, you know? Because you've been silent on that for a while. You're ready to break your silence.

I think I... Sometimes I think what I would say is that I really enjoyed reading the books when I was a kid. And I have really liked some of the movies. But when it comes to... I think I made a suggestion here last year or earlier this year that there needed to be like a Kevin Feigey of the Stephen Kingverse who is like, this is how we're going to lay out these stories and how they might connect. But there's a unifying vision of how we're going to do these.

I disagree with that. Okay, cool. That's why we're a podcast. That's why we have a podcast. That's the most we've ever disagreed. You think that Stephen King's stories are better when they have individual voices kind of taking them in lots of different directions.

I just mean for, it's cool that Andy Machete is doing this. It had everything from stand by me vibes to, you know. The movie did. The show, the show, Welcome to Derry. This new trailer you watched. It has a little bit of standby me vibes, 1960s kids trying to make their way in the world

and they encounter incredibly evil. I'm not, I'm going to be there for you and I'm, the HBO imprint on it makes me excited for it. And there's a good cast. There's Jovan Adepo, Chris Chalk. I mean, these are actors that I like and lots of things. Yeah, I'm excited. The playoffs are here and you can predict the action

all the way to the finals with Fandul Predicts. Follow all the playoff dishes, swishes, wishes, wishes, and misses. predict the spread, the total points, and even the game winner. Sign up for Fandual Predicts and predict it from the couch. Offered by Fandual Prediction Markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant. 18 plus. Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tools. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime.

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Fandul predicts. Follow all the playoff dishes, swishes, wishes, wishes, and misses. predict the spread, the total points, and even the game winner. Sign up for Fandual Predicts and predict it from the couch. Offered by Fandual Prediction Markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant. 18 plus. Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tools. Let's get into speaking of HBO shows. Let's talk about Last of Us.

Okay. There's a couple of different directions I want to go in, but this is the penultimate episode of a seven episode season. Yes. We can confirm that. We can confirm that. And also, I think it's worth talking about the, I would actually say,

despite the fact that we've been talking about this show for about two months now, abrupt feeling of this season. And we're going to be doing spoilers for the entire season of Last of Us up until this moment. So if you haven't seen it, obviously you don't care what we have to say anyway.

But I think abrupt is a word I would use for a lot of the things that have happened. Abrupt introductions of characters, abrupt exits of characters, the storytelling and the expansion from Wyoming to the Pacific Northwest almost felt abrupt. Like it didn't feel like a journey.

It felt like they went into a little portal and popped up in Seattle and knew exactly what they were doing, you know? So there's been a little bit of a pacing and structural issue for me this season. And I obviously like a lot of people feel like there's a Pedro Pascal-sized hole in the back half of it for sure.

But this episode and the faces that we encounter in this episode, including Pedro Pascals, but also Tony Dalton and Joe Pantoliano. Some of the best acting of the series happens in these incredibly small spaces. And I thought it was a remarkable reminder of how good this series can be, even though those things are now almost becoming teases. Right. What did you think of the episode? Well, I'll start with what you just said. if you want to make if you make the case

for this show I think you would pull two specific things from this season actually I think you would take the second episode obviously which is just an exemplary television production

and filmmaking and we should know that this episode and the following the finale directed by a Neil Druckman who is obviously the creator of the game yes and this was

co-written by his co-writer of the sequel to the game I think you would also then point to this episode saying with the resources we have and the artistic pedigree that we hope to bring to the show, this is what we can achieve. To do things that are, frankly, I think, I don't think this is, I don't mean this in a pejorative way, but there is, there is, can be something tedious about backfilling story, about catching you up through time, about doing, you know, traumatic events or,

uh, origin stories. That can be the, the most boring part of television to watch or make. But when you are doing it with some, you know, some thoughtful writing and some outrageously talented guest stars, it can really get you a long way. So I'm happy about that. I'll also say that just in terms of my own, like, what I want to spend my Sunday nights doing, I would rather be celebrating Ellie's birthdays, probably, than seeing Jeffrey Wright torture someone with a copper man. Well, I mean, we're all different. Again, these are these subtle differences that make me, governor of California, and you, a trash clown that lures children into the sewer. But

or the CDC of French laundry, who knows? Who can say? But I I'll also say though that with this episode that the use of time within the episode

what they chose to show us and then pull out a little bit expand the aperture a little bit like how they've chosen to spend this season really is frustrating, I think, in terms of the use of real estate. And I want to be very clear when I say this, this season was affected by the strikes. It is an expensive show to make and difficult production to corral. Sure. So had the strikes not happened when they happened,

I think it's likely that I don't know if seven episodes after two years was their goal. They've also taken this idea. And I think there's a lot more narrative from the game to go. But the suggestion is that this is going to be a four-season show now. Okay. So I wonder whether not unlike House of the Dragon, which I think similarly suffered from a, oh, okay. We're doing this now? Yeah. Like, I wonder whether or not like post-strike, there's a different kind of momentum and structure to the seasons. Yeah. I also think that sometimes, I think sometimes there's some bad faith listening to when we talk about things or when I criticize things, the implication that I'm like, oh, I'm criticizing this because I could do better.

I could not do better. And I also think that specifically I could not do better with the, here's the time that we have, here's the real estate, we'll try to do it this way, and we'll do things like we saw in this episode where we will take a break off a piece of a scene, not show it to you in the season premiere, and then reveal it here where it might have more meaning. Yes. I think there is nothing but good intention in this kind of juggling. it's very, very hard to do and have it feel rewarding.

I think there are moments when it pays off and there are moments when it doesn't. Broadly speaking for this episode, I thought that there were two things that really hit and made sense to me in an episode. One is the second half of the conversation, which I thought was a great performance, particularly by Pedro Pascal. I thought it was sweet. It adds nuance. It gives you an understanding of what's to come.

and was worth the weight. Whether this was the place to drop it, I don't know because I don't know where we're going. Second, the walk with Eugene was outstanding. And it's not just because Joey Pants was good. It was because, and again, I want to be careful when I say this, because my guess is that over 20 combined seasons of all the Walking Dead shows,

there's probably been a couple storylines where someone's like, let me just do one thing before I become a monster. Like, that is a, that's probably a zombie trope at this point. Yeah, I just think that I was very, I was blown away by like, I find the writing on this show to be a bit maddeningly literal. You know,

when somebody is feeling something, they usually just say it. Yes. With the exception of Joel, which is why I think I gravitated towards him a lot. Just because there was like, it allowed their performance to almost be more nuanced because this is about what this guy can't bring himself to say.

Right. And not that everybody's a chatterbox, but it's like, I feel like the, character will feel something and just sort of utter it, you know, pretty routinely. And the Joey Pants character

was doing the same thing. Eugene was like, I gotta talk to Gail. There are things I need to tell her. And, you know, we have rules, but then he pulls the gun and the guns up to you. Like, just the desperation, the humor, the humanity,

and that character, it like kind of snapped the show back into focus for me. And I almost feel like the... Now, I have mentioned, it, what's probably going to happen is that, like, you and I watch this and we're like, that's Tony Dalton, that's Joe Panangelo.

I would imagine 80% of the people watching Last of Us did not register Tony Dalton. Right. You know, I mean... Because they didn't watch Hawkeye? No, because Better Call Saul was like a little scene show comparative, in comparison to Last of Us, you know? And I don't think Tony Dalton is like a big star. So it's not like a huge get.

It is to us. It is to people who have been watching TV closely. but it's funny when we have these cameos and it's like I'm like that's a lot of them back you know and I don't know if anybody else is feeling that way but they definitely these character actors are bringing so much

even if you don't recognize them you're benefiting from having that person I think that the reason I say that like is the Joey Pants thing was that like a trope was really only to say I didn't want to overpraise it and be like no one's ever done that I don't think yeah what I want to say is I wanted a whole episode of that

that whole walk I feel like there's so much pathos and drama and emotion and even if not the whole episode I wanted more frankly and I you know if Craig Mason were here with us he'd be like what was that bit

with Gavin Newsom what kind of podcast is this but the second thing you'd probably say was this guy like sewers you'd probably like me too right but because we had to do these other things and they did the best they could with it and I get that so I don't want to like judge the show harshly for what I wish we had more of that said that plus the setting

you know they they filmed this as part of the previous block before they moved, you know, when they were in the wilderness, and it was beautiful, and where he took him was beautiful. And I found that really, really affecting. Now, I guess I'm in a zag and say it's not a criticism that the older Joey Penteliano is on a critical patrol run. It actually is inspiring as someone who celebrated a birthday yesterday

that I could still contribute to my society at that point. The way the show sometimes loses me is that, then there's a whole bunch of secondary things. Like, I'm not saying Joel should break the rules, break protocol. They make a big deal of saying he's a guest in this community even then. He is an expert marksman and bone shaver, by the way. He can really make a guitar. But he is also traveling with the only person in the world who is immune.

So I just feel like it's a numbers game with older Joey pants. And I feel like they could have walked him back. Yeah, I mean, presumably Ellie could die of blood loss if they were just, if she just got nod on for a while. By Joe Pantoliano? I'm just saying. I'm just saying. Yeah. The idea of there being rules in their recreated burgeoning society.

Right. And which rule rules Joel follows versus the ones that he decides to break and what his quote unquote mission is in this life. And it's basically to protect Ellie. Like he takes her on as the surrogate daughter. He guides her west. He gets her all the way to this place that he's been asked to take her and then decides that what they're doing breaks his kind of protocol.

You know what I mean? Yeah. I think that the other thing that I'm struggling with is the journey in the first season was, you know, I definitely had issues. I'm on record with having issues with that season. But there was a cleanliness to the through line of the mission. She's a magic item, like from a J.J. Abrams movie, right?

Like she's conscure it. it and then the magic becomes transferred to her person, and then he has to save the person because this is a magic person. The years following, what's interesting about that is that magic allure of she could save the world goes away, and then she becomes, like we all are like a flawed person, you know, who becomes a teenager and that friction. I really liked, I imagine there might be some debate about it. I actually liked the museum space launch scene. I thought that was really sweet.

and I like that the show kind of left reality for a moment to let her have that moment. I still struggle with kind of buying the central relationship. And maybe this is a feature, not a bug, right? That he is just pouring everything that he didn't get to pour into his actual daughter into this vessel who is her own person. But I still find it tough.

And I also think you were talking about the way the writing is sometimes declarative. I do think sometimes the writing lets Bella Ramsey down because her dialogue is just primarily being angry with an F-bomb in the middle of it. I don't know why I'm turning into a prude here because I now have a about to be 12-year-old who's quite fond of some swear words.

Oh, really? What's her favorite? I wish I had a funnier one of my tongue. She likes the hits. Yeah. She likes pop music and popular swear words. I think that it kind of, it feels reductive just how often

you fucking lied to me, Joel. Like, yep. What else? Yeah, I try sometimes to just kind of imagine like this is not a person who's done a lot of not reading, but like after they've kind of arrived at their teenage vocabulary,

they've then become essentially an infantry person in an army against the walking dead. It's true. You know, of zombies. So they're not like, like myself may be banging out a chapter a day of Kerenina. You know what I mean? Like, you know what I wish? It depends what she's reading too, though, because like one of my, just to loop it back to welcome to Derry. When you're a kid and you're reading Stephen King books and you start reading your

first one, there is an element of like you going to your friend's house and watching Commando where you're like, oh, whoa. And he uses some salty language. And did what we talked about this? That like I'm still have not gotten over reading the stand or one of these books. And like on page 18 after using all the other familiar swear words, one character goes, whoremaster. What? What?

Mom? In what scenario, is it better to say that? In some of the classic ones? Right. But maybe Ellie should try it. I also think, from what I can understand about the, I honestly read more about the discourse surrounding the show from game fans and I really,

and I read the literal discourse. Oh, so what's going on with our pals? I think there's some disappointment about, like, this show on the part of the game fans. Right. This is one of those funny things where we'll watch a Star Wars show or a Marvel movie or whatever, and we'll be like, well, actually, this is a B, B, B, B.Y, 4, you know, so. Was that me? No, but that's me too.

But, like, I don't have any investment in how this show goes one way or the other as long as it's good. I do think in the next season it will be quite different. You are essentially tying a bow on the join. story with this episode and with this season. That's changed. We've been introduced to Jeffrey Wright's Isaac character and Caitlin Deaver's Abbey character, and we have the seraphites. So we have this new kind of like landscape of adversaries out there. Ellie has a completely different mission now, which is essentially to get vengeance for Joel's death, that she seems to be prioritizing above all others, but now also has this knowledge of Dina's being expecting a child.

She's going to be a dad, she said. So there's that tension. and we are also in Seattle or as far west as you can get in this country. So I think this is going to now kind of settle into a different kind of series. It's just interesting then and it is a little, you can't talk about this without talking about the strike.

It seems like, and neither us have watched the finale or screen or the finale. We'll be talking about it next week. This is really House of the Dragonie starting to feel to me because we could potentially, for people who don't know or don't care,

House the Dragon Season 2 built up to what likely would be a super sick dragon battle and then ended on the precipice of it being like, well, this is going to feel good when it comes in 2026 or whatever it is. And I think a lot of people were left like, wait, what? I think we might be, is that a good Rosillo imitation? I can work on it. I think I'm starting to realize, and I don't know what's going to happen in this episode, but you just laid it out that a show, that is more about Isaac and Abby and all these things, is this episode going to end right on the precipice of that? And then we have to wait two years for any resolution to what this season... I don't think she's getting Abby in this next episode. So do we end up with this kind of throat clearing season, which is artistically interesting and viable and the Joel stuff hit? But I don't know, and I'm curious audiences' tolerance for this

in terms of their investment portfolio, it hits different when it's 24 to 28 months before you get more of it. Like taking a season to be like, I'm going to get you from here to here, but you won't believe where we're going next. Is it a wonderful luxury? But these gaps really, really hurt.

Well, in the same way that we're like, it's Tony Dalton. Holy shit. You know, I think that we're also probably not representative of like a pretty normal TV watcher when we're like, you know, anguished over the delays between seasons where there are many people who probably are like,

I watched, both of these seasons together. You know, I hadn't seen, I didn't, I'm catching up on it. It's true. You know, there's so many different experiences of it. But I, I am actually, like, weirdly excited for a Jeffrey Wright, Caitlin Deaver

post-apocalyptic show with Bella Ramsey. I am as well. I mean, I think that this is my, this is my hardest criticism take. Like, the young, young lovers finding their way in a post-apocalyptic landscape, CW show is not working for me. Okay.

I am not. buying it and I'm not really I'm not compelled by it in any way. You're sending that dish back to Thomas Keller. I'm sending it back. Yeah. I'm sending it back. That's right. We'll be back with you guys on Thursday. A bunch of stuff to

talk about. So like we Duster, we're going to maybe check in on that. I watch Duster, yeah. I'm current on 100 foot wave. Good for you. Wait, when does the studio finale drop? Studio finale is on Wednesday. God, that shows. I believe.

How, how, we love this. We'll talk studio. We'll talk a bunch. We're going to catch up on other shows that we missed while we were kind of deep diving Android. Do you want to tell me about what other shows are now? Or let's wait until we wrap. Well, I'm saying, 100 foot wave, duster studio. I'll take notes.

I feel like we owe friends and neighbors a final check-in. We do. Is it almost over? It's almost over. And what was the other one that I was telling you about? Overcompensating on Amazon's pretty amusing. There's a bunch of shows out there. And it's summer movie season about to hit. That's right.

I know that that's where your true passion lies. Yeah, I mean, all of a sudden, I heard that there's a fixed third chair opportunity. You know, they've just been sort of substitute teaching it for a while. If you want the third chair and big pick, I'm sure you could throw your hat in the ring. I cannot think, you know, we were saying last of us, we were last week when we were like, well, video game fans are mad and TV fans are mad. Who's this for? That's me on the big picture. Like, that would be an incredible troll.

No one would be happy. Thanks to Kaya and John. We'll be back on Thursday. Hey, Mama. Thanks for making all my favorite recipes. Hi, Ma. Thanks for your unfiltered advice. Hi, Mom.

Thanks for always being by the phone. Hey, Mom. Happy Mother's Day. When you ship UPS Air at the UPS store, your items arrive on time or your money back. Guaranteed at no extra cost. Exclusively at the UPS store UPS store U.S. retail locations. Visit the UPS store.com slash air shipping for full details.

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