The Watch - 'You’re the Worst' Star Aya Cash on Her Complicated Relationship With L.A. and Branching Out Within the Industry (Ep. 182)

Episode Date: September 4, 2017

The Ringer’s Andy Greenwald sits down with 'You’re the Worst' (FXX) star Aya Cash to discuss her upcoming fourth season of the show (2:00), her back-and-forth feelings about Los Angeles, and her current plans as a working actress to branch out into other facets of making TV and film (36:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I need sports to have to clear the room. Stand up and walk now. Hello, and welcome to a very special Labor Day edition of The Watch. It's a great podcast, brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where we can find all your Ringer pals. I hope you're enjoying the long weekend. I know I am. I mean, I hope I am.

I'm not actually saying this on Labor Day. I'm saying this in advance. Chris is enjoying it somewhere. I hope Zach Mack is on an island somewhere, not thinking about Game of Thrones. But today's very special episode is my conversation, with one of my favorite people in show business. Iya Cash.

Aya is the star of the FXX comedy, You're the Worst, which returns for its fourth season this week, Wednesday, September 6th. And I has been a guest on the podcast before. In fact, I think she was the last guest that I ever interviewed back in the old Grantland days, but I don't blame her for it one bit. And we've been friendly since then, so it was great to have her in kind of a rambling talk

because we were having a good time, but I really felt like we had some interesting things to say about the state of Hollywood, what it's like to be a working actor, what it's like to be a working actor in New York versus L.A. She told me about a really interesting movie project she's putting together and hoping to direct and star in based on a book by her mother. And yes, she does spell her mother's last name so you can check out the book. Aya is a delight. You're the worst fourth season.

I've only season in the season premiere, an extra long double-sized season premiere. it's really good. It is really funny. The show remains one of the most savage, hilarious, and low-key emotional series on television. It's always pushing forward. It's always exciting to watch. I really recommend it.

But I will say again, even if you haven't seen You're the Worst, and come on, get it together. It's streaming on Hulu. You can watch You're the worst. But even if you haven't, I hope you find something to enjoy in this conversation with IACAS. She is really delightful and really honest about her profession. So give it a listen.

Have a great holiday weekend. We'll be back with a brand new show on Thursday. Welcome back. Thank you. I hope you're not disappointed that Chris isn't here. I hope it's not like a Terry Grove situation. No. Why would I feel that way?

More attention on me. That's true. I'm an actor. You realize that. We are here to feed. Not you because we have no food. The ego that can never be sated. Never.

But we will do our best to shovel coal into the ever-burning fire. Please. It'll never be enough. Pit of neediness. Is there a difference between actors who can make those jokes and those who just can't, or can all actors make that joke? Oh, God, I hope all actors can make that joke, or else you're profoundly unaware. Right. But I guess there are more, like, self-serious actors. But, yeah, most people are.

I'm not, like, super unique in my ability to recognize my own. a black hole. But like on some level, for thinking of a contemporary of yours like, say, Daniel Day Lewis. Oh, yes. Danny. Dan. To his friends. D-Man. On some level, even he must realize that even though he's cobbling shoes in Italy for a year to prepare for a role, that there is some ego and validation required because he is a human being, right?

Or do you think that on a certain level, because you were alluding to actors who, you know, maybe feel that they are purely channeling, an artistic muse and not. Yes. Flow, I believe it's called, or God. I thought that was your nickname. Julie Cameron, I believe, the artist's way. Yeah. And you're just showing off.

Yeah, I don't know. I feel like, yes, there are probably people who take it very seriously. And then I start to go, oh, what's wrong with me? Am I not a real artist? So it just like spins back on it. You see how it spirals down? Yeah, we've only been talking for three minutes. And it all comes back to me.

Let's keep it there. We are here. As I said, you've been here in L.A. for your annual summer sojourn for almost three months now, I believe. I've been trying to get you on a podcast ever since. I'm glad we've made it happen. Yes, I'm still not caught up on Game of Thrones. Therefore, it's probably good. I wasn't doing the Game of Thrones.

We were very eager for you to be our guest. I mean, I can talk about, you know, the fact that she wasn't at the red wedding and the baby could still be a lot. But I'm way behind. I read all the books. Did you really? Yeah. Oh, you're a book person. Yeah, no, and I even read like the excerpts online of book.

So you're not just a reader, you're a giant nerd. Yeah, no, I was a huge fan. And then I didn't like the series at first because... That's the hottest take. I was so, like, this is not what I imagined, or that's not who that was. Just because of the way they looked? Looks, but also like all the little differences. It's always that way.

When you read a book, it's so much more nuanced than what you can get on screen. I don't read. Yeah. The first three are amazing. Four is pretty terrible. Oh. But you push through and then five is okay. And then that's been it.

And then that's been it. But yeah. And then I started watching the series again after I hadn't been reading the books. And I could appreciate the series because they weren't so in my imagination. These are some of the fire takes we missed. Oh, my gosh. Just clip this and put this on. Because people are desperate to know what I think about game.

After like the epic battle of two weeks ago, it would have been great to have someone on. Yeah, no idea what you're talking about. Really brought it back down to season two. Yeah. You know, like, let's all take a breath here. Chris is caught up now, I think. Chris could go on the show. Chris Geer, your co-start, thank you just saved me with a segue on, you're the worst.

And the reason we're talking. Yeah. People are like forwarding that 15 second forward in order to be like, who the fuck is this? You can curse. Oh, good. You can curse now, yeah. I assume. Good, because I did.

I know. We're not going to edit that. I assume that people are listening to this on two-time speed to get to the good stuff anyway. Yeah. Like you listen to Marin. No, I just start Marin at 10 minutes. Yeah. No, I do the little scroll through.

I really love Mark Merrin. Me too. But I don't. And I think he's a brilliant interview and a really interesting guy. But I just don't want the daily check-in with him. No, me either. So I just skip the first. I'm never going on Marin.

Now you realize I just ruined any chance of ever being interviewed by Mary. I actually think poking the bear gets the bear's attention in the case of Mark Merrin. Great. I think he thinks about that. Fuck you, Mark Maron. Exactly. My only interaction with him was when I gave a mediocre review to his IFC show and he tweeted about it. Oh, yeah.

He said he bet I felt good about this because I think I'm thinking. I think I'm thinking. That's a good line. I do. Quick Marin question for you. This is a podcast about podcasts. I have this working theory that since he has experienced the kind of career validation he never thought he would through Glow, which I think is phenomenal show.

I think he's excellent in it. I agree. He has changed dramatically on his podcast. He has softened. I think he's always been a softie under the crusty exterior. Yeah. But he has become much more patient and generous now that his axes are no longer being ground. Is that what you say, that axes?

That seems thinky. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I would agree with that. I think that's, yeah, I think that's true. and I also think that, or I'm curious about, like, the persona of comedians versus who they really are, because working in the comedy world and not being a comedian, I'm just constantly baffled by comedians or just confused by who I think they are, which is so silly because I'm an actor and people think that I'm somebody that I'm not.

But I'm always very confused about the, the sort of different... Well, that's a lot... That's a different line than between an actor and a character, I think, because it's their professional persona that evolves with them over time as opposed to you playing a role once or for a few years and then...

Yeah, but we want to buy... Like, I've been thinking a lot about this because I just recently decided, like, I'm not going to do comedy anymore, not as an actor, but, like, as a person, I'm not... Not going to do bits? Well, I'm just not particularly funny,

and I get offered to do all these sort of funny, podcast, funny, UCB things and then I show up and just like feel profoundly ill-equipped and embarrassed by it and then and sort of just like

big cartoon eye googly-eyed about the people who are so good at it around me. And I was like oh maybe I don't need to pretend that I'm that. Maybe I don't need to pretend that I'm you know Kumal or

I just did Doug Love movies and I mistakenly listened to a couple minutes of it, which I don't normally do. And I was like, oh, I hate me. I think I'm, I hate that girl. Like, I'm just trying so hard to keep up with like this brilliant dude. But it's kind of like trying to run a race with a profession, like an Olympian or something. Because we had that experience at the live show that you so kindly neglected to join us for. Really politely. And not just that. Iya as a sort of person, if you're ever in a position to invite Aya to be a guest at your live after show for a television program she doesn't watch, could not be more polite and then texting at length

to help us find another guest. So it was very kind of you. But we did that show. And, you know, Chris and I were out there and Jason and Mallory. We're having a good time. We're in a room full of people who I think want to hear us. We're enjoying the interacting banter. We get some laughs. And then we bring out Jason Manzoukis and Andrea Savage. And then it's just like watching, it's like going from Division 3 college sports or high school sport No, not even, I'm flattering myself. It's like watching middle school

B team and then going to the NBA because they walk out and they have a gear where this is their realm. And every choice they make is so sharp and like the right one. Or like I did Askat recently and every, I've done it twice now and Zach Woods

like you just want to like take a scalpel and like peel back his skull and see what's in there. It's so brilliant and so amazing. It would be hard to reach his skull. Yeah, he's very tall. You need a footstool. Everyone I know is in love with him, by the way.

Hey, Zach Woods, if you're listening. You're not on social media, so I can't get in contact, but I have a lady for you if you want. This is Jared from Silicon Valley. Yes. And he's a heartthrob. Because he's so smart and so funny and seems like I don't know him very well, but seems like just like a good guy. So I have a feeling he's going to have a great.

I think he's recently single. And I think that he's going to have a great time. Wow. This is a newsy podcast. The beauty of this podcast is I keep trying to say. Yeah, what are we supposed to talk about? I don't know. I think this is great.

I keep trying to steer it back to it saying, like, you're the worst. A show that I love. Yes. I show that you are on as a professional actor. is returning for fourth season on Wednesday, September 6th. That's very soon. We're recording this a few weeks ahead of that. We're going to put this up right before.

Great. We're excited at the show back. We should probably talk about it a little. But as we go on that journey together, if you'd like to also just blow up someone's OKCupid profile the way you just sit to Zach Woods, feel free. If you want to take pot shots at other podcast hosts,

feel free Save space Let's talk about the phenomenon of making the show again We were chatting about it before we hit record You are living the dream You are bicostal

I have become Maybe because I couldn't do it And I gave up the better coast And I live here now I am both in awe of And deeply skeptical Of people who have managed to do this But every year you come out here

And you film the show And you run racing back to New York City's warm, dystopic embrace. How's that working out? Well, you just have some cognitive dissonance because you've made a choice and now you feel like that must be the right choice. Or you have to feel like that.

I have to, in order to survive. Yes. So I assume that the minute I left, the subways collapsed like some sort of wily coyote invention. Actually, they might have. I mean, I've been hearing crazy things about this summer. I've been gone all summer and apparently the subway systems are disaster.

But that makes me feel so much better. Yeah. Because I actually miss the subway, but now that it's apparently a hellscape that's one I patched Kurt Russell away from being a science fiction film, I'm okay. I'm okay with my choice. Yeah.

But how is this balance working for you? I think, I mean, I think it's great. I don't hate L.A. I like L.A. There's great parts about L.A. I used to hate L.A. and then I woke up one day and was like, wow, L.A. doesn't really care that you hate it.

So, like, why are you bothering? Save your hate for things that, you know, I don't deserve it. Drink this green juice. It's going to really affect, you know. Donald Trump really cares that I hate him. No, but I don't, yeah, so I don't hate L.A. I really enjoy it.

I have some great friends out here. One of my best friends moved out here to be on a show a couple years ago, so I get to see her during the summers, although she was doing a play. So, yeah, it's great, but it's not home. And I just feel like, you know, New York is home. And I like reading and I read a lot on the subway. I miss that, yeah. I mean, you get so much reading done. I feel like I read so many more books because.

And now that you'll be stuck at Hoyt-Skemmerhorn for 75 minutes between stations, you could read like, you could read whole books. I mean, you could read an entire. Exactly. Like Game of Thrones compendium of like minor kings. He really needs to finish that six books. Yeah, so I feel like it works. fine.

Is it a particular, it strikes me as kind of a unique and kind, and in some ways, appealing construct that you, you, when you come out here, it is specifically, it's like, it's not like summer camp, but it is a specific thing. You come out here in the summer. You make this television show and you are intensely involved in the making of this television show with this group of people that you've become close with. And it's sort of the same pocket of time every year and then you leave. Do you like the fact that your time here is so focused?

Which is to say you're not going home to your quote unquote regular life. You know what I mean? You are fully here with these people doing this thing. Does that help your performance or your experience making the show? Yeah, I like it. I've always liked summer camp too. Like when I was a kid, it was my favorite thing as well. I mean, I had a really cool summer camp.

I went to Camp Winter Rainbow with Wavy Gravy as my camp counselor, and Tarot was my first boyfriend. So I had some good summer camp experience experience. Did he was in Northern California? Mm-hmm. I think my friend went to Wavy Gravy's camp. Oh, yeah. He used to take his teeth out and warn us that if you didn't brush your teeth,

you would lose all your teeth. And he said he used to brush his teeth with a Snickers bar. That doesn't seem legal in today's child economy. I think it still exists. My friend who still lives in the Bay Area brought me a Camp Winter Rainbow shirt recently. So I think it's still around. Camp Winter Rainbow. Win a Rainbow.

Oh, you win a winter rainbow would make sense. You win a rainbow. We slept in tepees. This is like my nightmare. Jimmy Hendricks would play on the fourth and you'd get a pie in the face on your birthday. Not the real Jimmy Hendrix. He was long dead. You're painting an idyllic hippie.

They would play. Yeah. And it was great. I learned how to stilt walk. Wow. I learned how to do Diablo, which is a sort of like string juggling. It sounds ridiculous. Now you're just bragging.

No, absolutely. This is just cool. So I've always loved camp. And I like, I loved regional theater for the same reason. And I loved going somewhere, focusing, creating that false intimacy with a group of people. Intense intimacy. Sometimes real intimacy, but often, you know, sort of like short-term intimacy and then, you know, going away. And so I always really love that.

So I like coming out here and sort of doing this job with these people. And we see each other outside of this four months. But, yeah, I enjoy that. And it feels like coming to L.A. with a purpose is very helpful. as an actor because you can come here and feel very out to see in terms of the industry and trying to get work. I think that's true just for this as a city in general. Like I'm very grateful that I moved here with a purpose of type of work I wanted to do

with a family already because I think it's just, I don't know how one, if you were in your 20s or aimless, I don't know how people would orient themselves here. Yeah. I, I, the people watching in L.A. is amazing. Yeah. I have so much empathy for all these people who come out here and are trying to write scripts and make movies and be in movies and are working so hard to create their web series or their shorts to sort of give themselves like to claw their way into the business. And it's, it's real tough. But there's something I think, and I don't say this with any authority, but the things that appeal to you about making stuff in like an regional level and going to camp.

That is what making stuff in New York or trying to make stuff felt like to me because you're just sort of all on top of each other and you're with a group of people who are generally in the same place in their lives. And you can try and fail. You know, you can, if you wanted to be a comedian, which we've established, we didn't. But you can, there are open mics or there are, you know, there's obviously UCB here too. But it felt a little more intimate. Whereas here, what you're trying to break into is the monolith. And it feels less, I mean, this is a understatement. the century, it does not feel very welcoming or approachable if you don't already have the inn.

Yeah. Although I feel like L.A. is more open to newcomers in a certain way. Like, you're more likely to, like, show up and get, like, a huge job from nothing here, but you're more likely to build a career out of New York. Like, if you are a stunningly beautiful 18-year-old, boy or girl, go to L.A. But, like, if you're... remotely, like, not the standard of Margo Robbie, you know. Gretchen Mall is the one I always use. Oh, okay, there you go. From, like, no career to Vanity Fair cover.

Yeah. Well, there's a, you know, Allie Larder was a hoax? Do you know who Allie Larder is? She was on heroes. The Dorito commercial? I don't know. The Super Bowl commercial? Maybe.

She's like a working actress. You should look this up. They did it. And I was talking about it the other day, and someone was like, not really. And I was like, I think this is true. Ali Larder was put on the cover of a magazine as the new it girl with like a bunch of movies. She was, it was a hoax. And she got a career out of it because people, like studios started calling and being like, we want you in our movie.

Let me be clear. Yeah. I was wrong and you were right. Yes. I did a quick, quick Google mid-interview. In this entire Wikipedia page, Wikipedia, never wrong, by the way. No mention of Doritos. Yeah.

But a mention of hoax. Yeah. This is true. It's a pretty fascinating story. I mean, I've thought about it a lot, like the idea of that you can be famous by being called famous. Yeah. And that's sort of how our business works. And it's how everything, I mean, it's how everything in this business works.

It's all about sort of spin and perception. Yeah, perception. How do you feel about that now? How do you feel about navigating those waters? Because you, as we know, you live in New York. Have a life in New York. When you come out here, you come out here because you are the co-lead of a television show that people like. What perspective does that give you into the industry now?

Or what doors has it opened or what perspective has it given you in terms of doors you would still like to walk through? You know, I feel like because I'm an adult, I don't navigate it much at all. Like, there's just not a, you know, I'm not going to be the next anything. I'm already 10 years older than the next. So I don't have to navigate it a lot. Part of the reason I go back to New York is because I'm, I find myself starting to value things that I don't actually value when I'm out here. Like, I start to worry about stuff like that or feel like, oh, I should or I didn't get or. you know, my friend has this or so-and-so is getting this.

And I don't want to have that in my value system. Not that that's not, not that I'm not jealous or competitive or insecure in New York, but it's easier to manage because you're not confronted with it every day. So I'm able to focus on the things that I actually think are important and want to, like, fan the flames of as opposed to, I feel like it's like a little gaslight under all those negative aspects of my personality out here that I don't really want to encourage. It's hard not to be immersed in it. Totally.

But you can step away there. Yeah. And I'm constantly surprised by like the perks or levels of fame. Like I don't even realize, like, oh, people just get given stuff. Like I remember the first time realizing that and you sort of hear about it, but then seeing it and being like, oh, I could have. or invited to parties or put on magazines and watching that happen to people. But it all feels very – I've been so outside of it for so long and watching it. It doesn't feel real.

And then I'm like, oh, wait, they really do, like, just give an Audi to someone anytime they want it because they were on a show. Someone – by the way, if any – hi, Audi. Mr. Audi is listening. Hi, Audi. But, yeah, so I'm like – I'm always shocked by it. I don't think about any of it when I'm not any of it. But I mostly don't have that thought in New York. For what it's worth, we did give you a free water that may or may not have been.

That may have been opened earlier. But let it be said. Were you not a successful actress, we would not have given you that water. But on the other hand, you're the worst. It's also changed my life in huge way. I mean, I get offers to do things now, and that's really great and exciting because I hate auditioning. So it's great to like have someone be like, hey, will you come? do this movie, and then I get to say yes or no.

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For $30 off your first week of deliveries, visit Hellofresh.com and enter Watch30. That's Watch 30 when you just subscribe. Now for more of Andy's interview with Ayakash. What's the vibe, going back to that summer camp idea, what is the vibe of this crew now, this rag-tag crew of You're the Worst? This is the fourth season.

I mean, that's a respectable number of seasons for any show. And then also has its own challenges both in front of and just around the cameras because going back into this world, you're working with these people again, you're playing this character again.

And to, you know, you're a theater actor. Theater, girl. I should have used the Audi voice for that. You know, the challenge in front of that is do you play one thing and you get to sort of hone, chip away at it, and then you walk away.

You're growing someone year to year. I mean, in terms of the environment I'd say this year is one of the best, actually. We had a lot of our crew members back that we were missing last year. Like props is some of my favorite people on set, and they weren't around last year. Because you had no props? No, we had other prop people. Because you did film in a different window last year.

Yeah, I mean, because we are a summer shoot, unfortunately, we end up going into network seasons, and people need nine-month jobs. not three-month job, so they have to leave. So, like, our props department has switched this block, which is sad because those people, like, you know, on sets, you're there anywhere from 12 to 17 hours a day, and they're like your friends and family. And it's also really nice to have friends on set who are not actors, too, because you want to, like, sometimes you want to break away from that for a little while.

Also, as discussed previously, actors are just bottomless. black holes of need and you need to draw a line somewhere. Sure. But so we had a lot of great crew members back and that was really fun. Our camera department is amazing this year. It's just been a really great season and I think I really love the scripts this year. I mean, I always like the scripts, but I just think this year is really great. And so everyone seems like they're in a really great space.

I think it helps none of us. None of us started famous and none of us. got the kind of fame that is disruptive. So we're all still really happy to have a job and really grateful for all of that. And I think that really helps morale. I think sometimes when that pit is fed too much. Overfed. Yeah, overfed.

Which is usually not a problem in L.A. Yeah. I was just, never mind. I ate a bag of holla last night. I was like, I'm such a bad actress. But a very good Jew. Yes. Yeah.

So we have a really lovely time of it. And then in terms of developing character, I just feel, I mean, I feel so gross sometimes talking about the show. Because one, it can feel a little self-congratulatory because you're talking about your show. And secondly, because it sounds like such bullshit. but I just really feel so hashtag blessed that I get to do this because they get they put like I'm doing crack this year. I was going to talk about that. I go every direction. They just take me to all these different places so I don't get bored of this person.

Like it's not like, oh, I wish I could play someone else. I get to play like 90 different types of Gretchen. And that's so exciting because I do think that as people we are, I'm, I mean, I just know myself. I'm so different in every situation. Like, even different friendships have different dynamics. Before I met my husband, I was the talker in all my relationships who wanted to, like, process and talk. And, like, my husband is so much more of a talker.

I'm the one who's, like, the withholding. Like, can't we just sweep this under the run? You know, you have different sides of yourself that come out. And I love that Gretchen just gets to do all of that. I think, and fans of the show over all seasons will agree with me. One of the most exciting things about it is the show as a multi-headed construct and Stephen Falk as the creator and showrunners personal ability to do this, but the show never stops pushing forward. Paints itself in a corner, then breaks through the wall to keep going. To watch the pilot of year the worst, which is still just note perfect, is also to think, well, there's no way this is a series.

You know, this is just a, this is very funny and clever observed bit, but you can't make a show about this. And then you have the first season, which is also, in my opinion, close to perfect. Well, you can't keep going because there's a reason why rom-coms, such as they are, are 90 minutes. Yeah. Because then you don't have to answer the unfortunate questions. You don't have to keep going, well, what happens next? Yeah. Is happiness boring or whatever?

But the show, and I think when I've spoken to Stephen, he's credited this a little bit to his tutelage under Genji Cohen. But there's always more story. You just have to dig deeper. And it's very exciting and rewarding to see it in season four. And I've only seen the premiere. It's an hour-long premiere on Wednesday, September 6th on FXX. Good job. You're much better at that time.

The show left us in a surprising place last year. But once again, like, well, how do you come back from this? What else is their place? Apparently, what is their place involves elder care, and I want to spoil too much, and the ingestion of crack cocaine. and it's what I needed for the show. No, but it's thrilling to be along for that right. And I can only imagine what it's like on your side of it

to continually have more to play with. There is no stalling out. There is no, very little repetition. Yeah. No, I agree. I wonder, I'm curious if you, like, having written on Legion and being, which, by the way, I think we reference it in the show, because Colin kept saying lesion.

And I kept being like it's Legion. Yeah, I think we have a Legion joke in the show. That's so nice. I think I felt like Stephen. Which I loved, by the way. I mean, I've told you. Which I appreciate. But Stephen, there was the whole thing last year with like the prestige drama that nobody watched that was clearly like inspired by Rectify.

But it was a bilify or something. I think that's a made up, that's a real drug, I think. Let's take some and see what happens. He said that I felt seen. as one of rectifies seven fans. But which, what was the questions? Just like after writing on Legion, yeah, does it make you, lesion, after getting a lesion, does it make you think differently about watching TV?

I mean, obviously you were in criticism for so long. Obviously, you know about structure, you know about, but it does it change your perspective of? A little bit. I mean, I think that it reinforced what I believe, which is that, you know, television is at its core, and you can either run away from this or run towards it, is a plot eating machine. You just have to, much like validation towards actors and writers, by the way. You have to keep shoveling story, and you can run towards it or run away from it,

but either way you have to come up with something. And that in order to make that seem entertaining or plausible or unique, you have to do all the, the important work is done with the characters and the emotions. but that on a very deep level, because there's just so much story episodes to make, you do your best, you try to make the best out of what can be an impossible situation. The best idea isn't always the right idea,

or it may not work, but you just break your brains and then you come up with something and you commit to it. And I was there, I don't know if that always worked with Legion. But you have to, you can't. can't sit back and rest, you know, and I think that Stephen, the mindset that Stephen has for the show is crucial, both for audiences, but also for people making it, you know, actors and writers. Do you think audiences forgive missteps? Because I feel like what is, the shows that I'm interested in sometimes, like, have bad moments or, you know, things that don't work or plot points that sort of fail. I mean, let's not even talk about season two of Friday night. We've all agreed to forget about that.

Yes. But I wonder if people forgive and if audiences in general are more excited to just see new stuff. But then you look at network television and there's sort of a standard that people want to see the same thing a lot because it feels familiar. People want comfort out of television, even though we're in a prestige era. Even though the content has changed, we still sit on our couches and we want to be fed in a calming way. I think there's two answers to that. I think one is, and Chris and I just spoke about this when we were talking about Game of Thrones, if you give people the character stuff and the emotional stuff they want, you can yada, yada, yada the details.

Nobody really cares how they pick that lock or solve that crime. Nobody cares. They want to know the character stuff. Reddit cares. Well, Reddit cares, but that's not a fun way to engage in everything. But your question, I think, is a really good one because people talk about how much audiences have advanced along with the medium. Are people willing to understand on a deep level TV is an imperfect media? it has to be, you know, there were things that I didn't remind myself about in preparation for this interview and I apologize.

But there were things in season three of you're the worst that I was like, I'm not sure during the season. Yeah. But because I am a fan of the people making it, it can be to me, and maybe this is, I'm too in it. But it's engaging to watch people, I don't want to say mess up, but make choices I wouldn't make and then get out of them or not. You know, like it's kind of like watching a high wire act when you're thinking about

it on a meta level or on a creative level. You can't make. How many episodes of you're the worst have you made? Oh, gosh. I think 36 and then this season we're on episode 10, so 46. They can't be 40. No one can make 46 perfect episodes of anything. Yeah.

You can't make 20 perfect episodes, right? But that's, for me, that's kind of exciting. I don't know if it feels that way when you're making it. Yeah. No, I feel it too. I mean, I also, you know, look, I can be bad, Kether can be bad, Chris can be bad, Des can be bad. Luckily, we have editing, you know, that's the joy of television as they prevent you from being bad.

Like, as actors, we can all be bad as well or make the wrong choice, and hopefully you have a good director who catches it or, you know, that stuff. But I feel like we're less forgiving in television and movie because we're like, No, no, no, this is the finish product, and the finished product should taste a certain way. Should smell a certain way. It should be, you know what I mean? It should be uniform. Yeah.

Like in a restaurant, you want the dish to be the same every time. I think movies, there's always been an expectation of perfection, television, less so, but the lines are blurring now that we have prestige TV. But especially when you only have 13 episodes, right? So the 26, I feel like you can kind of go off the rails a little bit. Make a character a murderer for no reason. Yeah. Redcon it. Yeah.

You can do that. and then never reference it. Never, which I respect. Yeah, totally. That was the right choice. Great. And you know in the writer's room, they had a spirited debate about that. Like we owe it to the people to like answer for it.

Move on. Yeah. Just like someone who really murdered someone in real life. You just try and move on. I also really like unanswered questions. Like I love Louis ZK having, you know, his two little white girl children with their black mother and that we don't have to talk about it because you don't talk about shit like that. And does this matter to what we're watching?

Yeah. Is this what we're watching? I've been really debating, like, so colorblind casting, this is such a pivot. But I'm thinking because I'm making, I'm hitting the microphone, I'm making a movie. We should talk about this. This is exciting. Yeah, I hope it's exciting. But I'm thinking about colorblind casting on stage versus on film and why we expect reality to look a certain way on film that we do not.

have that requirement on stage, especially with like Shakespeare, right? You can, you're allowed to colorblind cast Shakespeare. You can have somebody in the same family be a completely different race. Or in a hip-hop musical about the founding fathers. Totally. Hypothetically. I just saw it again. Did you see it here?

I did. It was great. Yeah. And I was like, why don't, why aren't we doing that on film? Like, why is that a requirement? And will audiences go with it? that. I mean, I think people, what I've learned from Hollywood is there's a lot of fear around what are, what are, because there's a heightened awareness about responsibility in this way, that people are worried about what they're saying to the point of not going to that place. Why even ask the question, have the question be asked. We're afraid of that response, that conversation. Or like, no, but then we have to address it. Otherwise, it's, it's a sin of a mission. Yeah. And I, and I'm not 100, I'm not clear. I'm. I'm not clear. about the answer.

And I'm not clear that like colorblind casting is the way to go and that, you know, it shouldn't matter if people are in the same family who look completely different and if we have to address it in that way. I'm not saying that that's the right way. I'm just so curious why being on camera we don't see that. I can't think of another example besides. No, I think it's a great point. And I think that to the potential counterpoint against this is, you know, when you have a

like a network sitcom about like young friends, not friends, but because that was very white. But recent versions attempting to do that where there's like six friends and five of them are white and one of them isn't. And the one who isn't, that is never mentioned. It's never examined, never explored. That's not who that person is. And it's sort of like, but look how, look at this utopia we're presenting. But it seems a sin of a mission. But to your question, why on film?

I'm very interested in that. And there's something, I think it goes to that idea of intimacy and how we interact. We watch a television show. It's ours. friends, our family, where they're in our home. And so we want to know everything. We feel like that information is owed to us in a way. But I think the flip side of that is the way that you mentioned, like Reddit and Twitter

have changed television viewing, we're all kind of detectives watching shows now, as if filmed entertainment are puzzles to be solved. There's one theory that's right that's going to line all the pieces together. and I think that's a terrible way to engage with art in general. I mean, look, it was fun. I loved watching Lost. Like, I loved daydreaming about the stuff. Yeah.

But at the end of the day, like, it has to be something more than that or else it's Westworld. Yeah. It's just a trick. I did not see that coming, that twist coming, by the way. People were talking about it. And I was like, no. We shouldn't spoil it. Yeah.

But, yeah, that one. Yeah. I know what you mean. But I wish things, I wish people, I wish TV viewers. were more comfortable just letting them, as the leftovers theme music said, letting the mystery be. And people aren't comfortable with ambiguity or uncertainty in their lives. And so I think they're not comfortable with it in their television.

Is it just where we think imagination should be? Like, imagination is for books and for theater. Like that we're more willing to like create, okay, we're going to a black box space and like not everything is exactly right. And like I'm very aware that I'm sitting in an audience with people. So I'm allowed to use my imagination versus like, no, this is what's being shown to me. so it must reflect reality in some way. And that there's an answer.

Yeah. Like, done. No, I know who did that. You can look anywhere on stage. You're not forced to look at the one person who's talking. You could look off to the right at the spear carrier and see them yawn and have that moment. Or the person sitting next to you and see them yawn. Yeah, exactly.

Depending on the play. Yeah. I don't know. So what is, so tell us. What a gross host thing to say. Tell us about your film project. You are making a movie. Yeah.

I've been developing. a script that's based on my mother's book, a book called Little Beauties, that was published more than 10 years ago. Your mother's name is Kim Adonizio. Kim Adonitio, A-D-D-O-N-I-Z-I-O. Very smart. Someone was like, I went on Conan and said her name, and someone was like, great, you said your mom's name.

Kim Ad-da-Z-D-D-D-D-D-A. It's like, like, nerves. Can't Google that. So I've been developing that. It's about a woman in her 30s who is recently separated. and struggling with fairly severe OCD and a pregnant young teenager who they sort of run into each other

and change and grow, all that good stuff. This is a script that you did? No, I did not write it. The writer is Terrell Seltzer. She wrote One Fine Day. She actually initially, she wrote this script. She's friends with my...

Don't think about this too hard. My best friend's mother. is her best friend. Oh, so you're related. Yeah. So she had gotten the book from my best friend's mother and then wrote a screenplay and I think Fox Searchlight bought it.

Reese Witherspoon developed it. It was like, this was 10 years ago. And then it all fell apart. And then she came to me a couple years ago and said, what if we do the original script, not the one with all the changes that Reese did with you? And I said, sure, but I want to redeveloped. it as a very small indie because it was not.

It was obviously a much bigger budget. And so we've been developing it for two years and I am now directing it as well, which is exciting as a word. So I'm trying to sort of learn everything I can about filmmaking, and I'm possibly going to shadow one of the directors on You're the Worst, who has also made an indie film. And, yeah, just cram my brain full of knowledge. But I said, I said I have lots of opinions and not a lot of technical skill. And she said to me, she said, that's all you need.

And men do it all the time. And men do it all the time. Yeah. For real, though, that's true. Men are like, I'm going to direct a movie. Or I'm going to be president of the United States. Yeah, exactly. No big deal.

Why can't I? What is your timeline or time frame? I'm hoping to shoot. We don't have the money yet. I haven't even pitched yet. I'm putting together, you know, lookbook stuff, and we just finished what I think is a really strong draft. So we'll go out to money, and I would hope to shoot it March next year. And the DP of You're the Worst has already said he'll do it.

So I have some crew members in place and some actors. Will you star as well? Yeah. That seems exciting, but also that seems tricky. Yeah, I'll have someone on set sort of as an acting coach to make sure that we're getting what we need that way so that I can set up shots and do that. experimented on a movie last year getting sent some dailies just to see, okay, can I watch

myself and not be a pit of craziness? And I could. So, which is, was surprising to me because I don't like watching myself, but there was something about the act of being sort of, okay, I'm not looking at this as me as an

actor, I'm looking at this in, I'm wearing a different hat. A Trilby. But I Fetching. Yes. So I was excited to learn that I can separate in that way. Is it the dream of every actor to deliver a line and then say,

cut, that's lunch, you know, and just like basically do not stop talking, just dominate the entire? It's never been my dream. This is, uh,

my, this happened because I started to feel very strongly about how this movie should be made. And, um, I realized that I would probably, be pretty devastated if anyone else did it because I have very, I mean, I can see the opening in my head. I can see, and I would be very upset to have that taken away. I don't know if I want to be a director in real life. I also am a lady who is an adult we've established. So that is, but that is, that is,

that is something real in this business, whether or not that's changing, whether or not that's something to be afraid of because I don't want to live my life that way. But it is helpful, I think, to start to branch out in other ways in this business because being an actor is already such a passive role in a pick me, pick me kind of thing. And it's not really, as you get older, it's not what suits me either, just in general. Temperament. Yeah. So I would like to be more involved. Well, I think that's smart to think about it on both sides. that it's an incredible opportunity and a different path could open up.

But also, what you're saying echo something that I heard once that was great advice when I had to write a book. I was like, I can't write books. And they said, well, no one's asking you to write books. They're just asking you to write this one that you know about. You're not becoming a great director

or a director of films. You can envision this film and then take it from there. Quickly, because you've given us a lot of your time your thoughts about being an adult lady, which is usually the subject of this podcast, by the way, but you have a perspective on it that I lack. That's the, what is it called?

I didn't mention the new name. It's Andy Greenwald is an adult lady. Yeah, great. I like it. Yeah. I feel it. We can kind of kick around the name branding. I wanted to ask you about other things on your IMDB page that have worked on that have yet to come out.

But you have three film projects that are listed as in existence, all of which are great names. Better than Andy Greenwald is an adult lady. One is called Fucking People. Great name. Yeah. Tough to see on a marquee in every market, but good. Tell me about this. That's a movie I shot in Austin last year with Josh Radner, Noelle Wells, Carly Chacon, Samir Wiley.

I mean, the cast is something, Fortune Feimster. Yeah, my dog is in the movie. What now. Has a credit. Really? The credits. Lucy Cash. Did it go to her head?

I mean, she doesn't know yet. So once she does, she probably will be like, I'll only eat, you know, raw chicken hearts. But, yeah, it's great. It's a first-time writer-director named Theresa Bennett, who is just wonderful and has become a great friend. Our dogs just had a doggie play date. And it's really fun movie. But I don't know when that's going to be available. summer camp experiences and then other people have to make other people are in charge of what happens with it.

They have to finish the movie and then they have to post the movie and then they have to, you know, they do all. And Game Over Man is like the workaholics guys made this movie? Yeah. That is a blast. It's like, you know, like die hard except they're the heroes. Really fun. Spoiler alert. I hope I don't get in trouble for this, but they probably will never hear this. I got to sing it wasn't me.

It was Shaggy at 4 in the morning on the top of a roof. With actual Shaggy? With actual Shaggy. Why didn't you lead with that? Like that is... I know. I'm just going to... I'm really going to get myself in trouble here.

Please. You know that part when he's like, I don't know, no, no, no, no, no, no. And we don't know the words? Yeah. He kind of did that, too. At one point, I was like, do you not know the words either? Not even Shaggy knows the words.

But that was pretty... That was a big highlight of that film. And that's a Netflix thing? That's in Netflix. That'll come out next year. I think they announced it's somewhere next spring. And finally back to you're the worst. Wait, we have to say one because it's about to premiere. Oh, I didn't say one that was coming. Oh, tell me. Mary Goes Round is premiering at...

It was here too. I didn't just miss it. Sorry. Well, I just, I'm so proud of this movie. It's premiering at Toronto Film Festival. Nice. On September 9th, also a brand new writer, director, woman named Molly McGlynn. I'm Mary. She's Molly. Yeah. And that's going to be at Toronto, which is amazing.

I mean, they shot it for nothing. I think total shooting budget was like 110 Canadian. And it's a beautiful movie with an incredible cinematographer named Nick Haight. It's his first movie. And I was like, you're a mad genius. Everyone involved was incredible. I feel like it's both exciting and risky because when you take these movies with first-time people, you're taking a leap of faith on the people. And that could be thrilling and exciting, but it could go sideways.

Yeah, I mean, what I've learned from doing a lot of these recently is that, you know, the meeting means a lot, right? So like, sit down, have a real conversation with someone and see if you like each other. And usually that's a good indication of whether or not you're going to have a good time on the movie. And, you know, it's really hard to make indie film, and it's hard to get distribution. And you don't get paid any money, and you're away from home. So I'm now taking a little break from stuff. I used to say yes to everything because I was so excited to work. You weren't in a prop comic.

Yeah, yes and. And now I'm being, like, I really want to go home. So there's some movies in L.A. that I was offered, and I was like, I would rather be at home and spending time reminding my husband that we're married. You're the worst season four, September 6th. You do smoke crack. That is a thrilling... Gretchen smokes crack.

Oh, I'm sorry. Why am I not supposed to talk about the other part? The character of Gretchen smokes crack. I've done a lot of work on that. I wonder the deep research method actor. Tell me about the season without telling us anything about the season. Because one of the joys of the show is we don't know. I don't think anyone going to the second season

would have guessed or predicted Gretchen's depression arc, which was so beautifully handled and beautifully played by you. Des is Edgar's, the actor, Edgar's character. PTSD storyline last year and the way it was woven in and behind the scenes.

I mean, these are the risks that the show takes that really elevate it. We don't want to know what's been done this year, but the show left us in a precarious place with our beloved core couple. We've alluded through maybe some harder time, dark times. How would you characterize the tenor of this season? I think, I mean, I'd say it gets pretty weird.

I think things go weird. Like, there's a moment that, like, references a horror film. Like, it's a really strain. Like, there's some weird stuff. It's almost as if, like, you know, all the stuff you feel when you're in a breakup? it's like, but it's out, it's in action as opposed to feeling. Like, yeah, there's just some crazy stuff. And these are colors the show has not really played with because the characters were fighting or fighting against, but fighting towards each other.

Yeah. And we're very separate this season. I don't think it's a spoiler to say that I've worked with Chris maybe five days this whole season so far. That's good because he has that ratty beard thing going on. Maybe you don't want to be around it. Do you really? I do. I think it's cute. I like facial hair. I guess I'm just a typical hipster. But yeah, so we spend a lot. It's really sad, actually, because we keep seeing each other socially and be like, how's it going for you?

And we really love working together. So that's been strange. But yeah, there's a lot of, there's some other combos. And there's a very cool episode with Sasha Mamet, who, that'll happen midseason. That's a re. I'm so excited to see it. But that's, I was saying before we got on mic, that we shot a 15-page day one night with her. And she's a rock star. So there's just some really fun, interesting stuff, but we're very separate this year. Interesting. Yeah. All right.

Well, I look forward to seeing it. Beginning September 6. 10 o'clock. 10 p.m. on FXX. Yes. Or on your FXNow apps? I don't know. I don't know.

Actually, I did work for them. I do work for them. You did work for them. But, you know, not presently. It's always a pleasure to talk to you. You too. Thank you for coming by. We mentioned the movies, got the TV show,

and now everybody knows that if you are stuck in a tunnel under the East River in a stifling subway car and you look across and you see someone reading a giant book who looks like the star of You're the Worst, guess what it is? But probably don't bother. Just put your hand right in my face. That's my favorite. Perfect.

Now everyone knows how to handle it. Thanks, I am. Thank you.