The Way I Heard It with Mike Rowe - 190: "That's a big-ash tree!!!"

Episode Date: March 9, 2021

After sharing the story of a famous father and son who could never find the right words, Mike and his Dad prove that words are the least of their problems. Strap in for a completely unpredictable rumination on memory foam. broken windshields, intractable stumps, double-sided axes, ancient wood-stoves, big-ash trees, and transgender dogs. Peggy Rowe is there to supervise, but only makes things weirder, as usual.

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It's filled with super useful information. And again, it's free at NetSuite. com slash mike that's net sweet dot com hey guys it's mike row and this is episode number 190 of the way i heard it and it's called that's a big ash tree that's a big ash tree when my father said those exact words in the conversation you're about to hear i was pretty sure he said that's a big ass tree which made me laugh because anytime somebody describes a thing as a big-ass thing, I always imagine the hyphen, not between big and ass, but rather between ass and whatever the thing is that follows it.

So a big-ass truck becomes a big ass truck, or a big ass house becomes a big ass house, or a big-ass boxer, begging the obvious questions, what exactly is an ass-truck or an ass-house or an ass boxer. I don't have the answers. I just know that my dad was trying to describe the size of a large ash tree that he and I were attempting to remove from the ground one day back in the summer of 1977. And the various challenges that that particular big ash tree presented. It's just one of the many delightful linguistic confusions you'll find in yet another spontaneous catch-up with my mom and dad. And another one of the many reasons this podcast is called.

the way I heard it, not the way it was. Even my own dad remembers things differently than I do, which is not at all unexpected. The old man is here to help me unpack chapter 12 of my book, which I'll read for you forthwith. Chapter 12 tells the true story of another father and another son and another miscommunication that turned out to have some very serious consequences. Big-ass consequences, you might say. or if you prefer big ass consequences, whatever that means. The whole thing is one big ash episode, and it all starts right now.

Chapter 12, Words, Words, Words. George understood the consequences of words better than most, so did his son. But now, staring dumbly at the blank tombstone that would mark his boy's final resting place, George was at a loss to find the right ones. What words could possibly sum up the life of the poet that millions of people all over the world were now mourning? Loving son? That wouldn't work.

Beloved husband and father? Hardly. In the end, George went with, Kete ton diomna et al-tou, true to his own spirit. George was satisfied with those words. He hoped James would have approved. But, truth be told, approval was not something George. George had ever received from James, nor in fairness was it something George had ever offered his rebellious son. Indeed, father and son hadn't spoken since the fateful day James had told

the old man he was joining a band. A band? What kind of band? A rock and roll band. I'm going to be the singer. That's ridiculous, George had scoffed. Rock and roll isn't music. Besides, you can't even sing. Now, looking down upon the granite bust of the young man with the long hair and the unearthly gaze, he contemplated the magnitude of his mistaken assessment. George thought about the thousands of protesters who'd been galvanized by his son's words and music. He also thought about some other words, words that he'd spoken in haste six years earlier. Back then, George had been patrolling a tense and dangerous coastline in a place most Americans had never even heard of. The seas were high that evening. The fog was thick, and the radar screen showed enemy ships approaching from several directions,

approaching quickly. They didn't respond to any warning or communication, so George did what he had to do, speaking the words that would change history. He said, open fire. Those words went down to the gunners, men who, unlike George's son, were not inclined to ignore his orders. For nearly four hours, George's Navy fired upon enemy ships that refused to leave his radar screen. Meanwhile, thousands of miles away in Washington, D.C., President Johnson got word of the sea battle. He interrupted all three of the networks with some words of his own. This new act of aggression on the high seas must be met with a positive reply. On national television,

the president asked for and received congressional approval to retaliate, and the Gulf of Tonkin resolution was passed. Back in the Gulf, though, after the fog of war had finally lifted, George saw why the enemy ships had been unsinkable. They weren't actually there. The radar hits were not ships at all,

They were anomalies brought about by bad weather and high seas or maybe a technical glitch, whatever the cause. George had been firing into a ghost fleet. George reported the error to his commanders in Hawaii. They called McNamara immediately, but the Secretary of Defense, for whatever reason, didn't relay the message to the president. The air strikes went off as scheduled and just like that. We were at war with Vietnam.

Oh, yes, George understood the consequences of words. Spoken in anger, they had divided his family. Spoken in error, they had divided his country. People still argue about whether his words were an honest mistake or part of a government conspiracy to push Congress into declaring a premature and completely avoidable war. Perhaps the answer to that is best addressed by the words, of his son who once wrote,

There are things known and things unknown and in between are the doors. Fitting words from a rebellious boy who remained true to his own spirit. The son who could sing after all and proved it by providing a soundtrack to the war his father had started. A dead poet named Jim Morrison. It was a Saturday morning. I was 14, and there was my father, standing at the foot of my bed, sharpening a double-sided axe. It's time, he said. Let's go. My father has a tendency to start conversations in the middle of sentences. He's also suspicious of anything modern, like nouns. Time for what? I knew the question was futile before I'd asked it. So, as I rolled out of bed and pulled

on my jeans and my work boots, I tried another one. Is it cold out? Invigorating, he said. Your mother made oatmeal. Eat fast. Our Massey Ferguson tractor idled outside as we loaded up our wooden cart, ropes and pulleys, jacks, and wedges, two chainsaws and various other weapons of war. Mom added a lunchbox filled with ham sandwiches and green apples to our arsenal, along with a large thermos of coffee. It was snowing already. Try not to kill yourself, she said. Dinner's at six. I can't count the number of times that my dad and I drove the old tractor down that stone road. We'd go through the lower pasture and deep into the woods to do battle with the pine, the maple, the oak, and his favorite, the mighty locust. The hard wood puts up a tough fight, but it burns the

best, he would say. The fact that we heated most of the old farmhouse with nothing but a wood stove was a source of great pride for my father and endless inspiration for witticisms like, chop your own wood, it'll warm you twice. The man took great pleasure in finding just the right tree. What he loved even more was chopping that tree down. Although there was nothing nearby, but the ground for the tree to fall on, he liked to pretend that there was. He imagined himself as the contestant on some sort of lumberjack game show, challenged, perhaps, to drop the tree between a Mercedes and a school bus full of children,

with nothing but inches to spare on each side. With pulleys and ropes and lots of delicate chainsaw work, he would coax the tree to the ground, determined to see it land precisely in the spot where he wanted it. Once that was done, we'd strip the limbs and the branches and cut them down to stove-length piece, and then we'd turn our attention to the trunk, working backward from the top of the tree to the

bottom, as the cuts became progressively thicker, the chainsaw whined louder and higher. Sharpen that blade, son, a dull one's twice as dangerous. I still remember how my arm shook, even after the saw had been turned off and stowed away. Hauling all that wood back to the house was a full day's work, but splitting the larger chunks into smaller pieces that would fit into, our insatiable wood stove. That was a chore without end. Every day after school meant an hour up in the wood pile with Dad. I can still hear his voice as I got ready to swing the axe. Aim for the chopping block, son. Not the wood. If you aim for the wood, you'll hit nothing.

A smart man named Einstein once said, people love chopping wood. In this activity, one immediately sees results. Being Einstein, he was right. Chopping wood does yield immediate results. It's immensely gratifying, just watching the progress unfold. But up there in the woodpile, the gratification was always delayed. Delayed because my father wasn't just teaching me how to swing that old double-sided axe. He was teaching me that work and play were two sides of the same coin. He was showing me that hard things, challenging things, could also be fun. In fact, the challenge was where the fun was. Today, I wonder, did the Morrisons have a woodpile behind their house? Some place where George

could show Jim that there were dangers involved when it came to cutting against the grain, a place to illustrate the consequences of driving wedges too deeply into the stubbornest stumps. What I know from personal experience is that fathers and sons, can find the right words. They can find them in the woods when they go there together to get the fuel they need to keep their family warm. Do do do do do do do do do. Dumb. Is it weird to love people but despise human resources? If so, well, color me weird. It's not to say I don't respect the millions of people who work in HR departments and companies all over the country. I do. It's just that I don't envy him. That's why MicroWorks doesn't have an HR department for better or worse.

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company in 24 hours or less. ZipRecruiter.com. slash row ziprecruiter.com slash row. The smartest way to hire. Hey, are you recording on your phone? You never know when you guys are going to be interesting. We're disastrous. Fine line, Dad, in my world between interesting and disaster. Well, sometimes the really disastrous episodes are the most entertaining ones.

Yes. What show are we talking about, my mom? Are you referring to Dirty Jobs? Our show. Oh, your show. Our show, yes. We have a new mattress, you know. Yes.

Oddly, I do know that. Well, I follow your wife's Facebook page, and yes, it sounded like you found something you liked, but what arrived was more in keeping with a yoga mat. But then the memory foam, right? expanded and now you're happy? Yeah, had a nice night. A lot of people who get those say it takes a week or so to adjust.

But I think we adjusted, at least I did, very nicely, very quickly. I had a good night. We're a quick study. When's the last time you bought a mattress, Dad? 19, 20 years ago? Yeah. It was a beauty rest.

Yeah? Yeah. And it really looked like new. the lady at the store who sold us this mattress said now they will not touch it if it has any stains on it well our mattress we had the forensic people come in and check it out it was pristine it looked like a brand new mattress which made it really hard to get rid of well you know at your age that's a pretty that's a pretty big claim 19 years and not a single stain on the mattress dad good for you You, Mom.

Well, I'm very careful with my coffee. So you got a foam mattress, and last night was your first official night's sleep on it? That's correct. It was. And you're pleased. Yes, but it was different. Memory foam, well, when you lie on it,

it kind of leaves an indentation the shape of your body. So rolling over is a real chore because it's like the mattress reaches up and grabs you and doesn't want you to move. So you have to overcome inertia in order to turn over. So it's a little bit of getting used to. I never had a problem turning over. My problem was getting into bed in the first place. Well, you never move in bed? Oh, I do.

I move. I sleep on my right side. I sleep on my left side. Oh, I've seen. Yeah. I didn't get sock in. Well, it wasn't a complaint. No, I feel.

You would say he moves enough in bed, but not a lot. He moves some, just enough. Just enough movement. Just right. Yeah. That's not weird at all. You know, the whole mattress thing, I mean, 19 years, those things get another 20% heavier, like every seven or eight years, they say.

Oh, Michael, I remember. I remember that episode of Dirty Jobs. It was thoroughly disgusting. I can remember you had rubber gloves on and you were dressed like in a hazmat outfit and picking up those floppy old mattresses that were ancient and just rife with all kinds of bacteria. I had to have a new windshield put in yesterday, Mike. You are really great to change your subject. Yeah, I'd say so.

All right. So we're not going to talk about the dead skin that makes mattresses. his way exponentially more 20 years later than they do when you buy them we're going to move on the windshields that's fine why'd you get a new windshield dad because i had a crack in it they say if the crack can be covered by a dollar bill then it can be repaired well i try a five dollar bill thinking that might be a little bigger and and and that wouldn't cover it it took two five dollar bills to cover the crack therefore $10, Dad. That's a $10 crack right there.

Therefore, the whole windshield had to be replaced. Currency in this country is all the same size, and that's not the case all around the world. You go to Australia. You know, some of those bills are huge. They're huge things. I know. We watch a lot of British television, and those, I mean, those pound notes are enormous. Yeah.

Well, you know, other people's money is a lot more fun. I mean, ours is all green and white and rectangular and of the exact same dimension. But you get over in some of these European countries, the colors are really vibrant down in South America, the same thing. You got pink bills and orange bills. Maybe it's more difficult to counterfeit. I bet it is. Yeah. Well, we got special ink, you know, and special paper.

Yeah. I think. It's got some fiber in it. Thank you. Yes, there is fiber in the paper. Yes, there is. I'm talking to the one and only John and Peggy Row, my parents who have graciously agreed to join me

to discuss the chapter that you all just listened to. Mom and Dad, did you just listen to the same chapter? Yes, we did. Yes. And are you prepared to have an unscripted conversation about what you heard? Yes. Well, yes.

But, you know, your father, he has endless curiosity. So he was motivated to read further about, is it Jim Morrison? Mm-hmm. Would you learn, Dad? About the Morrisons? Yeah. Yeah, well, one thing I learned is that Jim or James Morrison of the doors died. died at age 27

from either a massive overdose of heroin or from a heart attack that may have been caused by the heroin but he was 27 when he died there was never any reconciliation between parents and son and there was one occasion where his mother and his sister came to see a show that Jim was in.

And after the show was over, the mother and sister walked up to Jim, and Jim refused to talk to her. In one of the songs that he wrote, he talked about the edifice angle, that his father was dead and that he was, sleeping with his mother. So my impression that James Morrison was a card

or two short of a full deck. Well, he was troubled, for sure. But didn't you find it interesting? I mean, as a history teacher, a social studies teacher, I mean, I knew a lot about James. I knew nothing about him. You know nothing about him.

But I knew nothing about George. Did you know anything about him? No, I didn't know that he was the rear admiral who ordered the firing on ghost ships. I didn't know that. And the way you credit him with having started the Vietnam War, I think the son Jim Morrison was right in his attitude toward his father and the Vietnam War. To me, it was a war that should never have been. But it wasn't just his father.

You had McNamara, who was hugely responsible. And later on, he wrote his book, I think it was The Fog of War. It's a terrific book, but it's an even better documentary. It was directed by a guy named Errol Morris. And, yeah, the Fog of War tells that whole story. That's what had it in the back of mind. mind. That's why I knew that George was a key figure in this, but I didn't realize how key. But I really didn't care about much of that. I just, I mean, it's interesting, but I like the

relationship. I mean, I don't like it, but I was interested in how bad the relationship between the father and the son was and, you know, how it was never reconciled. And the idea of the old man standing there next to his son's grave, trying to figure out how to sum up his life. realizing really for the first time that so many millions of people around the world, loved his boy, even though he basically wrote the soundtrack for the war that his father helped start. I thought it was all kind of interesting and had something to do with you and I cut in wood. Don't get in that, boy. What's the matter? What do you mean, don't get into it?

Well, those were some great days. I don't know. I don't know what I'm allowed to say. Say anything you want. You're 88 years old. You're might. dad what am i going to do edit you yes to begin with we never owned a double-edged axe willie had one next door and he used to hang it in pops shop and it wasn't ours but i thought it was better in the story the idea of you standing at the foot of my bed holding an axe it sounds better if it's double-edged now look you did do that it might not have been a double-edged stacks, but you absolutely came into my bedroom in the basement on more than one occasion,

and you would kick the bed to wake me up, and then we would go out to work. That happened more than once. You can dream, bloody. You've got a great imagination. Mom, back me up on this. I'm sure it happened. Dad has very selective memory. Yes, I know he does. Look, we all do. That's why it's called the way I heard it, but the way I remember it on more than one occasion you would wake me up. Sometimes it was in the summer. I remember spending hours digging out

roots, right? You would cut down, there was that tree back behind the house. I just remember just all day after day trying to pull that stump out of the ground. It took weeks to get that stuff out of the ground. That was a big elm tree. Yeah, and

you looked at this thing I was with such a weird mixture of of delight and resentment, you know, like this was a challenge and you were going to do it yourself and I was going to assist in some small way. But I remember it was so hot, the stump was just completely intractable. And I had read somewhere about a device called a stump grinder that would simply eliminate the entire thing in about 10 minutes. We could have gotten a stump grinder and spent 10 minutes just whittling this thing down

to ground level or just below it. And that would have been that. But instead, we spent a week with picks and police. You know how it was finally done? My good friend, Charlie Griffin, brought a come-along. And with that come-along, we finally pulled that thing out of the ground.

Explain exactly what that is, Dad. It's a tool with a pulley. Yeah, it's like a pulley, and it has a cable, and the cable you wrap around whatever it is you want to remove, and you have the other end fastened to, in this case, our tree, and then you work it. Back and forth, like so. This is an audio podcast, Dad, by the way.

So when you say like so, I mean, the gestures are interesting here on Zoom, but the folks listening are probably a bit baffled. Well, anyway, it's a set of pulleys. Yeah. To come along is a set of pulleys. Well, would you like to hear the way I remember it? I would, Mom, desperately. This was a project that interested the whole neighborhood.

It went on for weeks to months. And in the summer, the neighbors would come over, Willie and Rose and I guess Russ and Fran. I mean, they would all gather around. They would bring their lawn chairs, and they would gather around this stump, and they would watch the progress. Dad was putting water into the hole and chopping

and trying to break up those roots. It was never-ending entertainment. They would bring their beer, and they would sit there by the hour and talk and laugh and watch Dad work on this. Yes, he could have gotten a stump grinder, but he would have deprived the neighbors of such wonderful entertainment and camaraderie. I'm sorry I didn't write about that. I mean, I wrote about the business of going back in the woods and coming back with fuel for the woodstove. That to me was, you know, a big, recurring epic thing you did that a couple of times i did yeah not very often your brother scott

was yes out there more often than you splitting wood yeah uh i don't know about that i don't know about that i mean you know i i was older so i was gone and you probably yeah i mean he lived at home longer than i did and he was up there yeah you're probably right but The better story is the stump, this giant stump behind our house, close to the house. And I think part of the reason you wanted it out because the roots were still growing, right? And they were getting into the foundation. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No?

The tree you're talking about was much farther. It was closer. Actually, it was on Pops property. Oh, that one. But there was another one. right there was that other tree off of the corner of the patio? Yes. Oh my gosh.

That's right. It was on the corner of the patio, Dad. That's the first time I remember you coming down, kicking my bed, standing there with the axe, telling me to get up. And I got out of the bed and in the story, we go back in the woods to cut down a tree. But in real life, what happened is we went around back and you gave me that axe and I just started working on the roots. And you started doing whatever it is. doing and it just never stopped it was the sisyphian stump i i still don't know what tree you were talking about you and mother remember um we had planted that tree early on that was a big that was a big ash

it was an ash and we had oh three and i had a professional i had a professional come in and cut that tree down did you say it was a big ass tree it was a very big and it was a very big and It was, my mistake was, I planted it. Oh, a big ash tree. Oh, sorry. I planted it too close to the house. Right. If there's a point to be made here regarding your husband, Mom,

it's the fact that we could have gotten a stump grinder. We could have done it. For a modest sum, we could have saved ourselves probably a month of work. I never ever heard you say, Dad, why don't we get a stump grinder? Never. in some way, shape, or form, that's the only thing I've ever said to you over the last 58 years. Why don't we do? Look, I can't even begin.

I could write a whole separate book, Dad, on the occasions where there was an easy button and your way. And you never hit the easy button ever. It's true, and it's still going on. Right now, Mom, what's the most recent example of your husband refusing? to do it the easy way. Oh, my golly. Pull up a chair. Pull up a couch.

What? You, you always want to do things your way. Oh. She, it's her way that prevails. You know, something of the Bailey. What was his name? Oh, that PBS show? Yeah.

Rumpold. Rumpold. Rumpold of the Bailey. He always referred to his wife. as she who must be obeyed exactly there she sits yeah but if you know that you will ultimately obey her and if you know that she will ultimately get her way why put up the fight why not just agree and get on with your life and save everybody why not get the stump grinder okay mike here's an example I talked to Chuck the other day and we planned this

Zoom. And I reminded him that your father has some hearing issues and he said, what you need is a splitter. You go on to Amazon and you order yourself a splitter. And he said, but you need it in two days. Maybe stop by Best Buy. That might be a better thing. And then you can get it right away. So yesterday, while dad was outside with the windshield guy putting on the new windshield, I said, oh, I'm going to run across the street to the grocery store. When, in fact, I drove back to Best Buy, and I picked up a splitter. Because if I had said to your dad, okay, we need a splitter, oh, we'd have been calling store after store after store to get prices. You'd still be shopping for a split.

It would still be shopping. How much was it, by the way? It was $9.99. It would have been cheaper. $9.99. 99.99. It would have been cheaper on Amazon. I think they're like five.

But then you have to pay shipping. Shipping, right. Best Buy tries to compete with Amazon. They really do. Everybody's trying to compete with Amazon. Right. So anyway, so I got home. And I'm anxious to show off my product.

took the box out of the bag opened the box and it was empty it was an empty box well how is that for good shopping the worker bringing home an empty box the man in the store said oh yeah we have splitters they're right over here let me get you one

I said is this the only one he said yes this is it so he picked up the box handed it to me I said thank you I took it over to check out the girl took it from me rang it up gave me put it in a bag, gave me the bag with the empty box and the receipt, and I drove home. And then I had to go all the way back, rush hour traffic just to get in. Didn't it feel like an empty box to you?

It did, but you know what? The one that had a splitter in it felt like an empty box. And I said to the girl, I'm not falling for this again. Open that box and show me what's in there. She said it is awfully light. She opened. Do do do do do do do. My guest today, Tom Albanyce, is an American giant.

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I mean, it's just a tiny thing. He told Mother that that happens. People come in and they take things out of the little boxes, put them in their pocket, and put the box back on a shelf. In other words, it was stolen. So somebody stole the splitter from the box. You bought an empty splitter box, brought it home, had to take it back.

Right. So the moral of the story is nothing's easy anymore. No, but they were very nice about the story. The moral of the story is open the box before you leave the store. There you go. Have a look in the box. Check the goods before you sign on the dotted line. Metaphorically, I'll tell you what's interesting, talking about this splitter.

On dirty jobs years ago. I don't know if you remember it, Dad, but I went to a lumbery. yard. It's actually, it was an operation next to a lumberyard where they used the scraps to make shakes and shingles, right, for roofs. And they had a splitter, a log splitter. And I thought again of the woodpile when I saw this thing in action. You know, it was like a miniature guillotine with a heavy blade, and you could put any stump, any log of any size in this thing. and it was hydraulic and you hit a button. And man, it would cut it in half and then half again and half again.

And I just thought the amount of time we could have saved up in that woodpile with a splitter. And the amount of time we could have saved in the front yard with a stump grinder would have dramatically changed our lives. I'm not sure for the better, but it would have changed things. What would we have done with that extra time? I don't know. I mean, this was a great time. you said it was a great time to have words. We could exchange words together

while we're chopping wood, while we're hauling wood, while we're carrying it to the house. So apparently you'd have been lost. We wouldn't have had any quality time together. Yes, that, you know what? When you're right, you're right. And on lists, I think we do agree.

I think that was the larger point I was attempting to leave the reader with in the chapter, not necessarily the detail regarding a double-sided axe versus a single-sided axe. Oh, we could come up with some other contradictions as well. What else you have? What else did you hear in my story that didn't comport precisely with your recollection? Oh, I got an itchy back here.

I can't reach you. I'm at San Francisco. Apparently that's it. Well. Whatever you're doing, it was back there, Mom. It seems to be working. I'll have to remember that. It's like a cat with his legs up in the air. You know, it's funny.

Sometimes we'll hug. And while we're hugging, we'll rub each other's backs. And I said we're like two old horses in the pasture scratching each other's back. Well, thanks for that, Mom. I prefer to imagine you on your new memory foam mattress stuck in your requisite. indentations, trying to give each other a back rub while you're talking about a busted windshield. That really was amazing, Mike. Before they got here with the mattress, I had gone down and opened the doors.

I mean, picturing this big mattress. You know, I moved furniture out of the way. I moved a chair. I got everything all ready. And the guy comes walking in with this round thing under. his arm. And I'm thinking, oh, they must be bringing us a couple of pillows, too. So he put it on the inner spring and started unrolling it. And honestly, it was about two inches thick at the very most. And he just flopped it on the bed and I thought, wow, what a mistake this was. And I said,

this is not what we ordered. And he said, they were Hispanic. the young men who delivered it. He said, this, no, this is good. This get big. He said, you sleep on it tonight. And I thought, wow, it's got a long way to go. So every hour or so, we go walking in the bedroom. And measure it?

Is it a mattress yet? Not yet. It looked like a plowed field at one point. It had all these big grooves in it where it had been rolled. It was very interesting. And they also included two pillows, which I did take a picture of and they were like an inch thick when they came and I thought

yeah they're going to be really useful pillows. Well today they're like nine inches. There you go. Got yourself a nine inch pillow? I know, a little bit of air. In a memory foam mattress. There's another interesting story associated with the mattress.

Do tell. The guy pulls up out front he calls, lets us know he's here. Your mother says, oh, he's here. He's here. We have to down and she rushes downstairs to open the doors so the man can come in. Meanwhile, I'm upstairs and he's called again and I've let him know she's down there. She comes in. Because I forgot my camera. Go downstairs. Go down. Let them in. So I go downstairs and I'm waiting and the truck is

parked out front and I don't see any movement. And I don't see any movement. And I I'm waiting, both doors are open, cold, very cold, and I keep looking, where are they? Why aren't they coming in? So finally, I said, I'm going to close this outside door, cut down on the cold. When they show up, then I'll open the door for them. Well, the next thing I know, here comes a guy walking by me carrying a mattress. Oh, our old mattress. He's on inside.

inside. I said, I've been waiting for you to come in. When did you come in? I come in a while ago. I said, okay. So I come upstairs. There's the mattress on the bed. What apparently happened when excitable mom here, get downstairs, get downstairs. I went down the steps. And apparently they were coming up on the elevator at the same time I was going down the steps. So you blame Mom for telling you to get down there. Exactly. Right.

And when she had already left the doors open for them, I don't know why I needed to be down there. Well, look, I mean, every day is an adventure. Some days it's a mattress. Some days it's a splitter. Well, maybe you can write about it. Maybe I will. Maybe that picture is a little crooked.

over there, honey. Squirrel. Squirrel, Dad, over here. Yeah. Look, I, you know, when I look back at all of this, I mean, this computer, didn't I get you your first computer? Didn't I get you your first telephone with push buttons? Didn't I get an antenna that allowed us to watch TV without somebody standing there holding a piece of tin foil?

Wasn't I the one who insisted you get cable so you could actually watch shows like Rumpold of the Bailey and enjoy that stuff? one day with a microwave. Oh, you could always watch Rumpo to the Bailey without cable. Really? Oh, yeah. Yeah, you always had PBS without cable. Look, all I know is, if it wasn't for me and your wife constantly pushing you to get a mattress or a splitter or whatever it was, where would you be right now?

You would be making phone calls on a rotary phone, wondering what a computer was. I said in my book, if it wasn't for me, your father would be sitting on a stump, cooking squirrel over an open fire. And that's true. Cooking squirrels on an open fire? Well, I exaggerated just a weebit. Maybe just a tad. Oh, you both?

You know what? I think the real sadness of that story is the failed relationship between some. and parents, apparently, not just father. But, you know, there's really no cause for that. I don't care what your differences are. I have friends. I mean, I know people well. I know at least five cases of estrangement of parents and children.

And I just think it's the saddest thing in the world. I don't get it. I don't. I mean, I'm sure there are, reasons that people have and they think that they're valid reasons. But I think in the end it's just a great sadness. Well, it's the frog in the boiling water. You know, people tend to think it's, it's this, something terrible happens

and nobody can get over it. But it's usually a slight thing and then days turn into weeks and weeks and weeks in the months and suddenly you haven't talked for a couple years and then nobody even remembers what the problems were. And then nobody has the words to fix it. But I think, Dad, you're the smartest guy I know. Oh, get out of here with that. No, look, I'm not saying you're not deeply flawed.

You are, but you are. You know, you're, you're, boy, what a compliment that is. Smartest and deeply flawed. Well, it's two sides of the same coin. Your specificity, your attention to detail, sometimes get in the way of the larger truth. But your basic understanding, your patience. They might get in way of the larger lie. I'm trying to compliment you if you just hush up for a moment.

It's time to listen. What you said earlier is absolutely true, and it is of your many great gifts. It's one of the greatest ones. But the refusal to take a shortcut put us in constant situations where there was time to talk. Hours, days, you know, spend the time with your kid trying to get a stump out of the ground and it suddenly stops being about the stump and starts being about the two of you, swinging axes and doing whatever you can. And then sometimes the neighbors come over and they sit down and they watch and, mom, you're right. All of that seems so random and inconsequential when it happens,

but when you look back at it, you know, it has an element of everything, including performance. We were literally, Dad, you and I were actually performing for the neighbors in some weird performance art, get the stump out of the ground thing. And it didn't occur to me until right now that that was actually important. Well, we lived in the country. The neighbors were desperate for diversion and entertainment. You want to talk about trees. All right, sure.

Mattresses, windshields, and trees. We've got to land the plane here soon, though, Dad. One of the best trees we ever had was given to us by Russ Ziegler. Our neighbor. It was a peach tree. Oh, yeah. And that peach tree was the most bearing tree. I mean, it was full.

full of fruit. Your granddad came over and had to prop up the branches. I remember. They were hanging. The fruit was so heavy. Philip would make a couple of dollars, taking peaches up on the Tromsville Road and sell them. He went up there at rush hour. He'd leave

with like a bushel basket, come back with an empty basket, and his pockets were full of change. I think they're the best peaches I've ever eaten. You know what? you're right and I forgot that it was Russ who gave us that but I remember being surprised that we had a bumper crop one year and we thought wow what a year this was but year after year after year they just we had hundreds and hundreds of peaches off of that tree mom I remember you preserving them mason jars and all that stuff and I'd freeze peaches and I'd slice them and preserve

But the odd thing is, I've read where you have to have two trees so that they can cross-pollinate. But there was only that one tree. Yeah, that tree wore some. I don't know of any other peach trees in the neighborhood, but it was really quite an asset. I mean, it wasn't much to look at, but it really did bear. And then there was a pear tree back in the field. I remember that too, yeah. And every year, we'd wait for those pairs.

Yeah, we'd wait for those pears to get ripe. And then just when they were almost getting ripe, some animal would come along and take every one of those pairs. The tree was bare. They stripped that tree, every pair. They knew just before we were about to pick them. I think it was squirrels. You think so?

Wow, they were that a busy night. Mike, how long is this going to last? I want to know if I should drink all this tea or not? Look, I'm sure the listeners are wondering, too, what few we have remaining, but not much longer. Okay. You know what I want to just, you know, let's close with this. I remember, I mean, since we're talking about the woods behind the house and the trees around the house and the house itself, you know, it's all gone now. And, um...

All gone. Well, the woods are still there. Dad, the woods are still there, but the last time I went back, it all just seemed so smaller, so much smaller than the way I remember. it. The field seems smaller. The road seems smaller. The woods seemed smaller. The house, of course, was gone. But, you know, I think that's the way it is when we look back. Like, you go back to high school, the halls seem smaller. Well, do you remember? We had, we planted all those cedar trees. Well, there's a story behind every tree, and we had a lot of trees. And that big ash tree. that was a big ass tree

no doubt about it ash ash right great tree and Mike remember the the pine tree was it pine or spruce right on the corner of the house

by the faucet pine oh sure it was a pine we planted that like five feet out from the house and it got enormous it was way up high

eventually we eventually had to take that down but that was a I took that down in pieces. I'd climb up and cut a section out. I remember that too. To cut it down to a manageable height. Do you think you've cut down more trees or planted more trees in your life?

Planted more. I think I've planted more. Because so much of the wood we got from back in the woods was fallen timber. It had all fallen. So, Mike, thanks to our fireplace and our wood stove, you and Dad did have quite some, you have quite some memories of working together outside. We do.

And thanks to your brother, Rob, who made that wood stove for us, a really talented welder, iron worker. Remember, it was called a Wagner. It was a Wagner. A Warner. Warner. You know what?

I was close. Double-sided axe. Could have been single. Hard to say for sure. But yeah, that thing sat there where our fireplace had been. And at first I was like, this is a bummer. I missed the fireplace, you know. But with the wood stove in front of it, well, things got a lot more efficient.

Not really as pretty. I mean, there was a big, giant black thing. sitting right there in the middle of your room, but kept us warm. It did, and there's no heat quite like that of a wood stove. It's a dry heat, and believe me, you don't have to sit there very long before you're snoozing. Remember how the dogs used to fight over their position? They each wanted to be right in front of the wood stove.

We all did. Yeah, and Ginger would lie there, and she was the smaller dog, and she would feel really good about it. And Shim would walk over and just stand there and look at her. And she didn't have to do anything. And eventually Ginger couldn't stand it. She'd get up and walk away and Shim would lie there. Do you think we could get away with naming a dog Shim today?

I don't know. What would be the objection? Well, I mean, remember when you brought that dog home, Dad, we couldn't decide if it was a he or a she. Right. So we called it, you know, a her or a him. So we called her Shim. And I'm just not sure, you know, the political. environmental

being what it is today, you can name a dog. Oh, I see. A transgender dog. I don't know. I don't know if we could have gotten away with that. Oh, God. Oh, I don't know.

What a great dog she was. She was. She was a good dog, Jim. Yeah. And Ginger, the first night we had Ginger, she scared the pants off of Michael, remember? Dog nearly gave me a stroke.

Yeah. Yeah, my youngest brother brought home this stray and left it on the front porch sleeping in a small, like a little rug set up. I came home late. It was probably two in the morning. I was trying to quietly get the key in the door. And that dog made us, I mean, it was a small dog, but wow, the sound that thing made sounded just like a lion or something. And I did. I jumped about a foot in the air. I didn't know what it was, but it was coming at me. And, oh, God. All right, look, I got to go. This has been really great, though.

Thank you for making some time on what I'm sure is a very hectic Saturday. How's the move coming? Do you remember Missy? Yes, I remember Missy. Yeah, it's interesting because there's a dog in the neighborhood also named Missy. But poor Missy, you know how she met her demise. Yes, I do. Do you really want to end this with the story of how Missy got run over? No. You just ended it that way, though.

Well, I mean, you asked. The paper boy. The damn paper boy ran over our dog. That's how Missy, that's how it ended for Missy. That was a sad thing. Yeah, it was. But we got back at him. What did we do to him? We stopped getting the paper. paper. And we haven't read to this day.

Oh, no. All right. All right, Mike, wrap it up, son. I'm trying to. I'm trying to. I'll try not to interrupt you. Don't start another topic. You're the best parents ever. I miss you. This stupid, stupid plague thing is coming to an end. I can't wait to see you. I'm going to be back east in a couple of weeks. I'm going to try and get up there on my birthday if it works out. Oh, that's right. You have a birthday. We had, uh, yeah, it happens every year, Mom. Gosh, you're going to be old. Okay. So I'm not going to say anything because it would just continue the conversation. I know, and we need to wrap this out here.

Sweet Jesus. Yes. Okay. All righty. Thank you. I love you. Final thoughts, Dad, in five seconds or less? I love you, son. There you go. Mom. Love you too, Mike. I look forward to seeing you in a couple of weeks. All right. Well, look, maybe it'll work out. Maybe it won't. These are uncertain times.

But, you know, between now and then, you can always call. Fair enough. You do have our number. Yes, yes, I do. Yeah. Seared into my retina. All right, guys. My gut.

Okay. Well, you can. That's enough. End the Zoom, okay? But I want to tell you something. Okay. All right. This concludes the podcast officially.

If you want my book, You can download it wherever people download books and listen to it. There's a paperback coming out later where you can just join us next week for another one of whatever this was. Thank you. Bye, everybody. Bye, Mike. If you work in University Maintenance, Granger considers you an MVP because your playbook ensures your arena is always ready for tip off. And Granger is your trusted partner. Offering the products you need all in one place, from HVAC and plumbing supplies to lighting and more.

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