The Way I Heard It with Mike Rowe - 196: Call It Macaroni

Episode Date: April 20, 2021

Sig Hansen from Deadliest Catch joins Mike to discuss the manliest surfer of all time, the manliest fisherman of all time, and the problems that can sometimes arise when you punch a pesky fan in the nose.  Honestly, you can't make this stuff up.

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Call it macaroni. It's a direct quote from today's very special guest, a man who can always be counted on to leave his listeners with an observation or a quote worth repeating. In the interview, you're about to hear the one and only Sig Hanson, captain of the Northwestern, star of deadliest catch, and quite possibly, the most famous fisherman on the planet tells me a story about a fistfight with a fan who took some unacceptable liberties, and he went on to sum up the strangeness of that encounter by saying, call it macaroni. I still don't know what he meant exactly,

but I like the way it sounded. Now, call it macaroni is the official title of episode 196, which concerns itself primarily with manly men and the reasons people find them manly. We began with the true story of a surfer who I read about years ago, a surfer who did something off the coast of California decades ago that would redefine the way manhood

is discussed today. From there, I share a few personal stories about my old friend Phil Harris, another crabboat captain, made famous by Deadliest Catch, and a manly man by any definition. Unfortunately, neither Phil Harris nor the manly surfer are with us today, but they did have a lot in common when they lived, including a love of the sea. That's why I thought it would be fun to bring in Sig Hansen, who just happens to be a fan of both of these manly men and a fairly manly man himself. SIG, in other words, is the perfect guy to talk to about fame and manhood, cancel culture, toupeees, risk, adorable little bunny rabbits, COVID,

naked fear, lockdowns, cases of Paul Mall thrown off the roof of buildings. We cover a lot of ground, including the various reasons otherwise smart men sometimes do stupid things in their quest to be manly, whatever the hell that means. Sig is also, as grateful as I am, to see Deadliest Catch return for another season. 17 years now. That show has been on the air. Unbelievable. And the new season starts this Tuesday, April 20th, on Discovery with yours truly doing the

narration yet again. Anyway, this is exactly the kind of conversation you'd expect to have with a manly fisherman like Sig Hansen, including a brief sidebar regarding the narrative. the infected tooth, and the pus-filled cavity that brought our spontaneous chat to a sudden termination. Call it unfortunate. Call it inevitable. Call it macaroni. It's a rumination on all things manly.

And it all starts right now. And when I say, Do do do do do do do do do do dumb. Is it weird to love people but despise human resources? If so, well, color me weird. It's not to say I don't respect the millions of people who work in HR departments and companies all over the country. I do. It's just that I don't envy him. That's why MicroWorks doesn't have an HR department for better or worse. And it's also why I use ZipRecruiter whenever we need to expand. ZipRecruiter has proven themselves a million times over by helping countless employers get through the hiring process faster and more effectively than ever before.

And now they have a new feature that instantly shows you the most interested, the most passionate, and the most qualified candidates first. This is a huge time saver, hours and hours of save time. And it helps people like me find the people who can function in a non-traditional work environment like MicroWorks. In other words, ZipRecruiter works for me, and they'll probably work for you too. Post a job for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash row. watch what happens. Odds are you'll find a human resource that just happens to be a great fit for your company in 24 hours or less. ZipRecruiter.com slash row. ZipRecruiter.com slash row. The smartest way to hire. Chapter 18. A manly man, a gold medal and a really big sea.

Long before he won the gold medal that ended up on his mantle, the manly man stood in the sand at the tip of Balboa Peninsula, smoking a cigarette, staring at the biggest waves he'd ever seen. God Almighty, he said, that is a really big sea. The Olympic champion standing next to him, smiled and nodded.

Monstrous breakers, blown to towering heights by an offshore breeze, were being forced together at the last moment by a series of jetties that guarded Newport Harbor. Local surfers called it the wedge,

sensible people called it a death trap wally o'connor called it a challenge you're right said wally this is a very big sea isn't it fantastic the manly man felt the adrenaline course through his body this was the way he felt every week on the gridiron moments before the bone-jarring impact at the line of scrimmage would determine who remained standing and who got knocked to the ground he was addicted to the feeling, which is why he was drawn to this dangerous new fad that Wally had come up with. I'll take the first pass, said Wally. Watch and learn. The manly man stepped back into the crowd, lit another camel, and watched Wally O'Connor glide through the water. It was easy to see why he'd won gold in Paris.

He ducked under one wave and then another, swimming hard against the riptide with long, powerful strokes. A hundred yards out, the water was only four feet deep, but the waves were at least eight feet in height, treacherous to say the least. Wally waited for the wave he wanted, dove into its base, pushed hard off the shallow bottom, and burst out of the crest. Then he began to fly. At least, that's how it looked to everyone who was watching. Partially embedded in the curl of the surge, while he eased himself into the pipeline while extending one hand and a stop gesture. His upturned palm carved into the great rumbling wall of water, while his other arm remained tucked behind him.

With white foam shooting off his chest and green water breaking over his head, while he flew toward the shore like Superman. No one had ever seen anything like it, surfing without a board. As the mighty wave began to crash in around him, Wally stroked hard, staying just in front of the thunderous crash that sent him flying toward the beach like a human missile and a sea of foam skimming across the surface before sliding gracefully onto the sand where the locals greeted him with wild applause. Wally stood, took a modest bow and turned to the manly man,

who had yet to win a gold medal. You're up, champion. Ready? The big man nodded. I am. A simple answer to a simple question that wound up changing the course of his life. The manly man confronted the Big Sea with manly confidence, imitating everything he'd seen Wally do. He swam hard against the riptide for a hundred yards. He waited for a wave as big as Wally's had been. When it came, he dove into its base, pushed off the shallow bottom, and burst out of the white water, at which point he began to fly, just like Wally. But here's the thing. If you're going to go toe to toe to with the Big Sea, you'll need more than manly confidence.

You'll need perfect timing. And when the wall of water began to fall apart all around him, the manly man was out of position. Thus, his manly body was propelled with great velocity not toward the beach, but rather straight toward the shallow bottom. Over the crashing roar of the surf, over the muted sound of his own screams, he heard the sounds of his future vanishing before him, the snap of his collarbone, the crack of his arm, the crunch of his shoulder as it popped out of its socket. Those were the sounds of a football scholarship coming to an end, along with his college education at USC, and the law degree he had hoped to graduate with. All of it, gone, taken away by the really big sea.

In the back of the ambulance, broken and lucky to still be alive, the manly man lit another camel. Did he foresee that the only job he'd be able to find in the course of that year would be in the props department at 20th century Fox? Did he foresee that schlepping those props back and forth between sets would lead to an audition, which would ultimately require him to change his name to something more masculine? Probably not. But one thing is for sure. The manly man could have never imagined the press conference he would hold in his living room 35 years later.

The one conducted just four days after his surgery. There, in his Encino home, the manly man, now with his manly name, but still no gold medal, gave an Oscar-worthy performance, smiling bravely through unspeakable pain and talking with great confidence to the Hollywood press. He assured the reporters who gathered there that he was ready to get back in the saddle. He didn't show them the giant purple scar around his left side. he didn't discuss the lung that had just been removed or the four ribs that he was now missing. He didn't mention the sutures that kept breaking open every time he coughed or the bucket of phlegm and sputum upstairs by his bed. As for the disease itself, he didn't even mention it by name.

I've licked the big sea before, he told reporters, and I'll lick it again. Trust me, fellas, when I go out, It'll be on both feet. The reporters were delighted. No one had called it the Big Sea before. No one had ever dismissed it as nothing more than a mere nuisance. Surely, if anyone could beat the disease,

it would be the manly man who reduced it to a nickname. And sure enough, he did, completing two dozen feature films over the course of the next 12 years, including the one that finally won him an Oscar. But here's the thing. If you're going to go toe to toe with the really Big Sea, you'll need more than manly confidence. You'll need to stop smoking.

Unfortunately, for the manly man, that was simply too much to ask. And so, the man who had beaten the Japanese, the Mexicans, the Nazis, the Viet Cong, the Mongols, and too many Indians to count in too many Westerns to recall, was ultimately vanquished by a deadly horde of unfiltered camels, five packs a day over the course of four decades and then some. In the end, the man who'd shot Liberty Valence

didn't possess the true grit to quit smoking. Today, there's a cancer foundation that bears his manly name, along with a park in Newport Beach, an airport in Orange County, and the credits of more than 200 films. It's the same name that's on the back of the gold medal he finally did get in the hospital. One month before he died in 1979, a congressional gold medal embossed with the name that we all know today, thanks to the manly man's run-in with a really big sea, a run-in that changed his life, and the really big sea that ended it. It was a shame, but a pretty good run, all in all,

for the kid who was born Marion Morrison and died a manly man named John Wayne. I was in Seattle filming the first round of After the Catch, a talk show that takes place in a bar. The setup was simple. Captains and crew from Deadliest Catch gathered to chatter, confer, sometimes confabulate. I was the moderator. Picture a pre-hash-tag Charlie Rose, but with cigarettes and whiskey. We were recording the show in real time, or something close to it, as though it were a live

production. Producers, directors, and cameramen were milling about, positioning cameras around a big table and setting up all kinds of lights. But I got the sense that nobody actually knew what was going to happen once shooting began, and that turned out to be the case. The captains sat down at the table. They didn't know what was happening either. I wouldn't have called them nervous. These were manly men, too, after all. Let's call them fidgety and full of questions about how the day would unfold. I had no answers to give them. Unlike ship's captains, I prefer states of confusion. I think they make for good television, and I said as much. I also suggested that, given the setting, there were any number of remedies on hand that would take

the edge off. Only one of the captain seemed completely at ease, Phil Harris, who had arrived at the last minutes and done so in style aboard a brand-new Harley-Davidson. He'd walked into the bar with a gargantuan smile on his face and said hello to each of the captains in turn before turning to me. Hey, Phil, I said. How's it going? I got nothing to say to you, Mike. until you ride my hog. Resistance was futile. When Phil wanted something done, it got done, and his enthusiasm for whatever it was that grabbed his attention was contagious.

At sea, he focused on catching crab. At home, he focused on his boys, Josh and Jake. At the moment, he was focused on his new motorcycle, something that gave him so much joy, he just had to share it with me. And he did. He insisted upon it. By the time I rode back into the parking lot,

the other captains were in very good spirits. Mind you, Phil wasn't perfect. He had a temper. He rode fast and drove fast. Like John Wayne, he smoked like a chimney. Needless to say, he cursed like the sea dog he was. He'd been the captain of his boat, the Cornelia Marie, for close to two decades, and he liked to do things his way.

But his way left a lot of room for other. people. Once I ran into Phil and Las Vegas, I was speaking at the Con Expo convention, and Phil happened to be there manning a booth for a pulley company. During a break, I wandered over and watched him talk to his fans. There were many of them, deadliest catch fans who were delighted to see Phil in person. They wanted autographs, handshakes, a word or two with their favorite captain. The line grew and grew, but Phil had all the patient. But Phil had all the patient. in the world for them. Standing behind a display, unobserved, I saw him focus completely on the person in front of him. He found something new and original to say every time. He answered questions

that were way too personal and stayed well beyond his required time, waiting until the very last fan, an elderly gentleman had gotten his turn. The gentleman called Phil an American hero. Phil blushed, signed the man's hat, and talked to him for a long while. Some people are better than others at this sort of thing. Phil was a natural. He handled the measure of fame that TV had brought him in the most genuine way. He acted as if he'd always had it. No matter who you were, you always got the same Phil.

Once in L.A., I attended some event the Discovery Channel had sponsored. Most of the captains were there, along with the Myth. Busters, bare grills, in short, all the usual suspects. Discovery Communications CEO David Zazlov was there, too. David Zazlov oversees the largest provider of nonfiction content in the world and does so with an attention span that rivals that of a fruit fly. It's true. He calls meetings that might be adjourned a minute or so after they've started. He's scary smart and not terribly patient with folks who don't keep up. He never sits still. He's always in motion and always surrounded by a human force field, a group of assistants whose primary task is to keep away

those who might suck up his valuable time. I watched him rush through the room, his retinue following like the tail of a comet. He had already reached the back door when Phil walked in through the front, and what happened next is the honest-to-god's truth. David and Phil shook hands and started to chat. Thirty seconds later, they were still talking. A minute later, still talking. People stopped what they were doing and started to stare. But five minutes later, David and Phil were still at it.

Phil was doing most of the listening. David was talking intently, and we were all wondering, what could the crabboat captain and the media mogul possibly have in common? We watched in amazement as David and Phil wandered off to a corner away from everyone else. There, they sat down and continued to talk. That was unprecedented. Every few minutes an assistant slid over to give David an excuse to depart.

Every time, David waved the assistant away. When Phil took out a cigarette and made as if he would light it indoors, David walked him outside. They stayed outside for more than. an hour, standing there, talking, just the two of them. Eventually, after they'd said their goodbyes, Phil joined me at the bar. You know who that was? Tell me, I said. Phil threw back a poorly made duck fart. That was the president of the whole damn channel. Actually, I said, he's the CEO of the whole damn network. Is that right? Well, whatever. Seems like a nice guy. Kind of chatty. But his

hearts in the right place. For me, it comes down to this. We know a real thing when we see it, and crave it because it's in such short supply. We seek it out, stand in line for a chance to be near it. Fans, fishermen, CEOs, they all saw Phil Harris for what he was. The real deal. Flawed and human and decent and kind. When a monster wave sent him flying out of his bunk, during a crucial run toward the end of the show's fourth season. Phil cracked a few ribs. I can't breathe, he kept saying, while smoking one cigarette after another. There he was, toe to toe against the Bering Sea. He was in terrible pain, but with 34,000 pounds left to catch, he dragged himself back to the cockpit, where he started coughing up blood, a fact that he kept

from his sons and most of his men. Please don't say anything to my kids, he said to Todd Stanley, the cameraman who'd spent years filming Phil. Why, Todd asked. Pointing to the Bering Sea, Phil said, Because I don't want them thinking about anything else but that, or one of them will get hurt. Phil ended up finishing his northern set, then made an hour run to his western strings, where he told Todd, it's different when it's yourself and you're sitting here. Believe me, this isn't like.

a crew member getting hurt. I've got an obligation to the people I work for, to these guys, to their families. The whole ball of wax is riding on my shoulders. 24 hours after that, he finally called into a hospital. I can't get in for a couple of days, he said. By the time that he finally pulled into St. Paul with his men and their catch, he'd been in pain for 60 continuous hours. Down at the hospital, he was given a one in 10 chance for survival. Along with the cracked ribs, he was diagnosed with a pulmonary embolism, a blood clot that had traveled up from his leg to his lungs. It should have killed him. I suppose you could argue it did a few years later. The Big Sea didn't get him.

Neither did the Big Sea. But those little seas he'd been puffing on since he was a kid hadn't done him any favors. Anyway, back in 2008, Phil Harris recovered. He didn't quit smoking. Maybe he couldn't. But what he did do was continue to take care of his sons and his men. Stephen Spielberg told David Zazlov, who told me that the way Phil had acted after his injury was one of the bravest things Spielberg had ever seen. But the way I look at it, Phil was just trying to get to the end of his story, his way, and bringing his viewers along for the ride.

He really was one hell of a captain. Well, are you sick of it yet? Are you sick of AI hogging up all the headlines and sucking up all the bandwidth? You find yourself wishing we lived in a simpler time? Do you miss the rotary phone? Well, get over it. The genie is out of the bottle.

The poop is out of the goose, I'm afraid. AI is here to stay. And every business in the country is asking themselves the same question. How do we make it work for us? Well, the answer to that question varies, but you'll find it in a free guide that you can get right now at netseweet.com slash Mike. It's called demystifying AI.

It's totally free. It's essential reading for anybody trying to make sense. of a future that appears to have arrived yesterday. NetSuite, of course, is the number one AI enterprise resource planning software out there, trusted by over 43,000 businesses. With NetSuite, you can use the AI of your choice, GROC or Claude or Chat, GPT, whatever else is out there, to connect to your actual business data, all of it, and automate all of those tiresome time-sucking, soul-deadening,

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We are back from fishing and, you know, opening up a new chapter in our life. We've got another granddaughter on the way or son, I'm not sure which. Matter of fact, I probably shouldn't even be saying this because it's not public yet, but there may be a new Hanson baby on the way here. Well, I mean, congratulations in advance. You know, I mean, it seems like every time I talk to you, there is a new chapter of sorts that's either either, beginning or ending. And, you know, I mean, we've had a version of the conversation I want to have with you right now for the last 15, 16 years, it seems. But having listened to the chapter that you just listened to, I was thinking, if I'm going to have a conversation about being a man

in the 21st century, who am I going to talk to? And this is 51% compliment, 49% percent. percent insult, I guess, because I don't even know what it means anymore. But, dude, I have, I'm not even sure where to start this with, but for it to say that I think you might be the most famous fisherman in the world right now. And I think if somebody asked you 15, 17 years ago before all this craziness started, if something like that could ever happen, you would have laughed. You might have you even taken a swing at them. But, yeah, we did laugh the first time they brought it up to us, and I have swung at them. So, yeah, we're right on both ends, as usual.

So you just listen to a chapter about John Wayne and your dear friend, Phil Harris, who I was lucky enough to know for about 10 years or so. And let's start with John Wayne. I mean, I don't know any of this about you, but are you a movie fan? Were you a fan of his? Well, you know, every time you think of John Wayne, you think of the Westerns, of course. And, you know, my father's generation, you become fans of, because my father was a hero to me of sorts, obviously. You just become a fan vicariously through them, right? I mean, Muhammad Ali, for example.

Sure. Well, you're growing up with this kind of man figure and this notary. variety. And he was truly a man to me because of, for many reasons that, you know, politically and the whole nine yards. That being said, through my father, yes, of course, John Wayne. And then we are of Norwegian descent. So, you know, in the old country, my grandfather, it was John Wayne. John Wayne or Johnny Cash, you know, things like that. So that whole era, of the manly men, yeah, I was spoon-fed all my life with characters like this. And even though you may not know all the details and some of those things, you know, it was just one of those guys that was a heroic, historic figure.

And that's how I grew up. But it's the alchemy of it that makes me most interested. I've read a lot of books on Johnny Cash. I've read a lot of books on Muhammad Ali. And I'm with you, incidentally. Both of those guys in very different ways epitomize something that is inherently manly. But it's always, for me anyway, it's always a question of the whole being greater than the sum of the parts.

Like if you break down Ali and Johnny Cash and John Wayne and Phil Harris and whoever you want to talk about, then you just wind up with attributes. on a page. The thing that made me want to write about John Wayne wasn't any of his attributes. It was this weird mix of stuff. And I swear, Sig, I don't know when it happened for you. And you're probably not in a position to answer the question. But there are a lot of people who look up to you and they see you in the wheelhouse and they see you as a father and a husband and they see you struggling. And all of a sudden, you go to another level where people actually give. And they them about what you think and they want to get into your head as I'm trying to do right now.

And that has to be a trip for you. Well, it's a blessing and a curse at the same time, obviously. You know, there's, what was it Spider-Man said? With great power comes great responsibility. Isn't that what he said in that movie? You asked if I was a movie buff. So, yeah. Yeah.

I mean, he might have, he might have been quoting somebody saying. Yeah, he might have been. I'm not sure Spider-Man was really. laying down his own philosophy, but okay. Exactly. I know, it just came to my mind, movie, Spider-Man, Bank. Who said it anyway? I got to of much

of great, it would have been it sounds like a manly man to me. Well, look, when in doubt. We'll search that. But my point is, go ahead. I was going to say, when in doubt, Abe Lincoln, Mark Twain, H. Lankin, or yeah, that's it. Those three guys said everything.

I mean, number one, you know, in this day and age, you know, when you ask me to participate, and then when I saw the, you know, the clip about John Wayne and then, you know, the analogy with Phil and all that, and, you know, I told you earlier, it brought a tear to my eye. It really did. That being said, then you're going to speak, frankly, about what it is or what I feel it is to be a manly man, I guess is what we're getting at here. And I was afraid to even participate. Really? And I know that I'm walking a fine line here when I say that,

and I can compare to members in my family. I have son-in-laws, for example. I have nephews, you know, and, you know, Mandy, you know, as she grew up in the neighborhood here, There were tons of boys around the house all the time, all the time, you know, because all the neighbor kids and, you know, this is where they came and tons of guys. And I've watched them grow up. Some are more manly than others. And it's just such a sensitive topic because I feel that in this day and age, you know, if you don't bite your tongue, you can't always be yourself, I suppose,

what I'm saying because of persecution, liability, a little thing called the internet where people speak their minds without thinking about what they say and it's just a click of a button and all of a sudden, you know, you're criticized and it's a very scary thing to have an opinion these days. But if the point we're trying to get to his, what is a manly man or how to, you know, what is it to be one, which thank you for the compliment. Yeah, I'll go there, but people may not like what I have to say. Oh, but since when have you given a damn, honestly? That's part of it, right?

Right. I mean, look, as a guy on TV, you, I mean, see, I think it's a real mix of stuff. And whenever you sprinkle fame into what is already a fairly complicated conversation, then you just take it to a completely different level. because now it's just not Sigurd Hansen, a guy with an opinion. You have a personality that's larger than yourself. And as you said before, it's a blessing and a curse. But as a fisherman and a captain and a person who for 17 years has been in the public eye,

have you started to pull your punches yet? Will you ever? Pull my punches. What do you mean as far as? Like, well, you just said it before. There are some things you said you have to know when to bite your tongue. You have to know when to bite your lip. Yeah, the internet is a threat.

But it's not just that. You're talking about discretion. And the men I know, the men you mentioned right at the very top of this, Johnny Cash, Muhammad Ali, right? These, you know, when I think of those guys, I think of people who always spoke their mind. But in and of itself, that's not really a manly quality. In fact, that's sometimes a selfish quality. You have a thought, you say it.

Let the chips fall. At some point, prudence and thoughtfulness and discretion, you know, whether you're a crabboat captain or a movie star, you're navigating, we know how you navigate the Bering Sea, but how do you navigate your celebrity in this day and age? That's what I'm getting at. Yeah, I think now, and it sucks to no end. I can't explain to you how hard it is to filter your opinions or your voice. I do filter, and I think about it more and more and more.

Because, you know, after this many years in the public eye, and you know it's a it's a lot of fun to do it's a job and it's a job on top of our job and it's great but as soon as I walk out that front door I have to filter and and it's and it's not fun and so sometimes half the time you're thinking am I being me is this me or you know maybe if a guy has a couple of drinks the filter kind of goes to zero right I'm you know but at the same time yeah we I do have to filter more. And maybe that's age. Maybe that's hopefully more maturity.

You know, let's hope so. But that being said, and that's part of also being responsible and being a man, I would imagine, in this day and age. And you have to change with it. Yes. But you also have to adjust for the camera. John Wayne was born Marion Morrison. Now, he's the same guy, but his life as a celebrity as Marion Morrison. It just doesn't, I think a name is an incredibly powerful thing.

And I don't think we'd process the reality or our reality of who John Wayne was if we, if he never changed his name. Now, you never had to change your name, but you had to, I think, tell me if I'm wrong, but Phil died in what, 2008? Right. What was it? Fifty, two or three years old? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So things got very, very real, very fast on Deadliest Catch. Up and to that point, everything was always high octane. The stakes were always incredibly high.

It was always a real simple, you know, you can't script the Bering C. And we knew as producers of the show, and we knew that there was going to be tragedy all the time. Nobody expected Phil to die the way he died in such a common, relatable human. way. And after that happened, and I do want to talk about that, obviously, but I also want to talk about the fact that suddenly, it seemed like you guys needed a different level of balance in your life. And there you are on Dancing with the Stars. And there you are doing a Pixar movie. And there you are doing all these things that the traditional trope of a manly guy might not do. But you were doing them. And I thought that it just made you much rounder and much more human. And I really do mean that

in the sincerest compliment I can offer. It made you more interesting. Right. And I think, then thank you for that. I think at the same time when Phil passed, you know, all of a sudden, you know, nobody wanted to admit that we are getting up there in an age that, you know, you're, The scales are starting to tip. And, you know, everybody's got a bucket list, right? Like, there's a lot of things that I never did in my life that as a kid I dreamed about. That would have been. And Phil, I think his bucket list started as soon as he made his first dollar.

I think that's when his bucket list started. You know, he was never afraid to go out and have fun and just do it. I think I was much more conservative. But at the same time, I think everybody changed. changed, you know, having a heart attack or two. Two, wasn't it? Yeah, but, you know, the other one. See, you know, like, you know, they talked about the big C, you know, and when I think

about Phil and the smoking and the lifestyle and all that. And I just can't help to go back to this day and age and this mentality. And I'm not saying that, you know, people, you know, people are judgmental. that bothers me but at the same time that's just the way he was that's the way I am to this day and that's the way

the Duke was right and not that you can't justify it but that lifestyle was there you grew up in it and for a guy like Phil to just live it was cool

yeah I mean Christ's sake Elvis did I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm just saying that was his choice. But in this day and age, it's just, you know, it's horrific, you know, like, oh my goodness, you can't, you know, smoke or do that or that. That's bad for you. We know that. And Phil knew that. And, you know, so it's throw caution in the wind to hell with everybody. I'm going to be me. And now that I got to see what happened to him, not a good thing. What happened to me? And then you think about your own mortality. And then, you know, I quit smoking for a while. I did over a year. And then right back at it again.

And I've asked myself this question, you know, is this a persona? Is this who I really am? Is it just, did I label myself as a young man wanting to be like my heroes? Did Phil labeled himself because he was surrounded by the same type of men. And then if that's the case, then why can't you change your behavior so that you are a better man, which is what I pray for every day because of the loss that I've had in my life, not just Phil, but many others recently. And so you do want to better yourself. I'm sure John Wayne wanted to better himself.

Maybe when he said, you know, well, it got me, what can I do? Right. All right. Well, let's, you know, go out in style instead of crying about it. Didn't cry about it. Phil certainly didn't cry about it, right? No, he did. Matter of fact, you mentioned this guy is like, hey, turn the cameras on, let's make this happen.

It is what it is. And I think that is like this, I think that's a beautiful thing. You know, my father was the same way. My mother was the same way. Oh, I heard he had cancer. Yeah, no, that's too bad. I hope he can get through it. It's not this, holy shit, let's get on Facebook and raise money for the kids right out of the gate and all hope is lost and the tears are shedding.

Yeah. You don't go up that way. I'm sorry. Well, you know, there's a macro and a micro to almost everything. And what happens, I think, in our world is that there's a rush to get to macro. There's a rush to, it's like, okay, wait a second. The cameras are rolling. We have a platform.

We have influence. And so you don't get the time you would normally be allowed to be human. You have to immediately get to the point where you're doing and saying all the right things. The network is probably going to weigh in. We might want to focus group a couple of replies. Might want to bring in some experts to go ahead and do a little research and see how Sig is resonating in the heartland with, right? It's like none of that stuff is his manly in a classic sense because it's all produced and it's

all managed. And it's hard to feel like you're your own man when at the same time you're aware that there are a few million people watching you. And so is a cigarette just a cigarette or is it now a profoundly irresponsible choice? Is it selfish or is it human? Is it personal? What do you give away when you're in this world? And I swear, SIG, I mean, like I said, you and I have talked about this before,

but I still can't really articulate the impact that Phil's death had, not because it was tragic, it was, but because it was common. this uncommon man died in the most banal of ways. An embolism? Really? He survives how many rogue waves? He survives how many bomb cyclones? He made it, he made your extraordinarily dangerous job real for everyone.

Because in the end, he showed us that the danger was around every corner. all the time. Agreed. Yeah. Do do do do do do do do. My guest today, Tom Olbenice, is an American giant, and I'll tell you why. Tom understands on a fundamental level that the business of mining is a non-negotiable prerequisite of our civilization and our economic independence, just like the business of making

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I mean, he was the leader. And, you know, we did interviews here a week ago. promoting the program and all that. And that's great. One of the reporters said, you know, Phil was, when he was around, he was the leader. He was the head honcho, you know. And he said it in a way, like, I'm not insulting you, but wouldn't you agree he was the head honcho? I go, well, yeah, the guy had me by 10 years, but not just that, in age and experience, but on the show, he, you know, he was the guy that everybody wanted to follow. He was, you know, he was just bigger than life for most people.

Honestly, and he's like, well, how does it feel to, basically he said, how does it feel to step in his shoes? I'm thinking, hey, man, like, you know what I mean? It's not like anybody's stepping anywhere, you know, and we're all just doing our own thing. And so it was flattering to say the least, but at the same time, it just, it was a twist on it. And I felt like it's, you know, we're not competing on TV here. We're competing out in the water. And we're friends on land.

And you know there's more than anybody. It's the simple truth. And so I just felt like, but for him to say that, so many years later, I feel like that legacy lives on and that image that, and it wasn't even an image that was created. It was an image that was exploited. He was exploited. Here's what you tell a reporter like that.

I can't fill his shoes, but I can follow. in his footsteps. Next question, right? You just, because look, the reporter, he or she, they're in a very similar competition. They're not looking for crab. They're looking for copy. They're looking for clicks. They're looking for likes and they're looking for shares. And the way to get that is to reduce you men into the simplest version of your on-camera selves as possible. Because they don't want people to have to think too hard. They don't want the layers to have to come off. They want at a glance for the viewer to go, ah, good guy. You know how I can tell? He's wearing a white cat. Oh, bad guy. Let's make Steve Harley-Davidson the bad guy. Okay. Let's make Wild Bill the unpredictable guy. Let's make Phil,

the father figure. Let's make Sig the carrier of the legacy. Right. And so, you know, all of that stuff. It's all fair. It's all part of the game. You must be this tall to get on the ride, as they say in Disneyland, and you are that tall, right? But what they don't plan for and what they don't tell you about is, holy crap, what if this works? What if you're still on the air 17 years later? SIG, you're on the air, 17. I've been narrating this show for 17 years. You've been there since the jump. So, you know, heads up, man, you're entering a phase of your life right now where people in this country desperate for insight and advice, if you haven't already noticed, they're going to be coming at you from every angle. They want to know what you know. They want to know where the landmines are and you're going to need an answer.

Well, if we're talking about being a manly man and I still filter myself, then it's not going to work because, you know, it's, It's just not going to work, man. It's like, okay, I'll give an example. And maybe to me, this is my version of a manly man for myself. Quick story. So we're at the unicy. You know it very well. Guys were on celebratory dinner before we head out.

I think it was a couple of days before we went out, whatever it was. Anyway. And then with a celebratory dinner, you have a celebratory drink. and none of us fare very well when it comes to that. One thing leads to another, guys keep going at it. And then there was a younger guy, fan, and this is years ago, and kept, you know, every time you went over a smoke, he'd keep coming out and pester pester.

And, of course, by this time, I'm irritated and, you know, well on my way to being the other guy. And then went out, again, in and cop was standing there and I just lit up and I feel this hand slapped me on my shoulder bang, tried to turn me around

or something like that. And instinctively I just turn around and I just hit him you know square in the nose and then he lands on the ground and then and I went oh boy here we go again

and then the cop that was standing there looked at me and he goes turns around I didn't see nothing come to find out the kid was a big fan fine and then

a couple of guys scrape him up and then we go on about our business I was trying to avoid it and then the next day I have my guys

go out find out who this person was come to find out you know good kid just stupid and then have my guys taken out

bought him dinner formerly apologized, and he apologized as well for being a pest. And I said, you know, maybe punching you out wasn't the right thing to do. But that was my reflect action at the time. Now, 30, 40 years ago, no big deal. 20 years ago, no big deal. Today, holy hell. Pretty big deal.

Oh, not only are you a quote-unquote celebrity, and we look up to you because you're the manly man, which I get it, and it's flattering, and it's, you know, but then do you know this other man? Or do you see what I mean? There's lots of different layers in the manly man. This one, this time happened to lay him flat on the ground. Not proud of it, but it happened.

And at the end of the day, we were manly men enough to shake hands, have a dinner, call it macaroni, you know. No lawsuits. No, thank God. The cop was manly enough to just turn his back and let it go, right? Okay. Okay, so that's a great. No, look, most of the confusions and most of the drama, I think, that happens in situations like that is not because of what actually happened.

It's because of how quickly the times have changed. In a relatively short period of time, there was a thing called. called consequences. And consequences were the thing that happened when disrespect unfolded in a deliberate way. Not so long ago, there were duels. There were duels between men of breeding and character. Politicians, of course, you know, there was social lubricant. You stood when a woman entered the room. It's not just about holding the door. It's like all of that stuff. all that convention has shifted. And so guys like John Wayne and Phil Harris and maybe yourself wind up becoming victims of the time.

They didn't evolve as quickly as the social mores did. So up there in Dutch Harbor at unicy, the rules were different. The rules didn't evolve as quickly as they did here in San Francisco, where I'm sitting. And I'm not trying to reduce this to a caricature of itself. But you become annoying. You get hit in the face. A cop sees it. You know, he has to make his decision.

All to your point. That can happen today. And it can happen on steroids because of your celebrity. And I'm not saying it should happen. But the fact that it's changed, that's part of what you got to navigate to. And those are rough waters, man. It's rough waters. And it's pretty bad when sometimes you feel safer, you know, with the gate locked than actually going on the other side and then wandering out, you know, or you feel safer in 40-foot seas than you do, you know, going out for a burger or something like that.

That's, I mean, it's getting to that point for me. But like I said, maybe it's age. Maybe it's that, you know, you're more aware of what's going on around you, whereas if you're a young man in your. 20s or 30s, and you never worried about the world and which way it turned. You focused on work, money, party, you know, different. Do you think the mistakes that you've made are as important as the successes you've experienced? Well, we've made more, I have made more mistakes than, you know, than I can count.

and I don't have regrets, you know. I mean, I know I've learned from them. And like I said, I wish that, you know, I want to better myself. I really do. Alcohol has always been a huge issue for me as a young man, a teenager. Phil, the same way. Huge. Jonathan, any one of us.

And I know that when I think about my behavior, behavior, especially as a younger guy, you know, when I look back and I reflect and I think, you know, every problem, whether it be a, just take an ugly girlfriend. I don't care what you want to do. I'm just kidding. They're all beautiful. What I'm saying is alcohol was always a factor in the mistakes being made to me. And so I was like, wait a minute, it took me this long to figure that out. Right? Well, is the answer stopped drinking? Probably. And then is that going to make you a better person? Probably. But then are you still going to have the, you know, those few mistakes, are you still going to have the fun times that you have had? You know, when you're with friends and family and having a good time in Vegas or whatever? I mean, as long as you realize it and you, and you, you're not apologizing for yourself, but you're trying to better yourself because you see those mistakes. It's great. I've made so many mistakes in business I couldn't imagine. Now we're doing very well, and we have a lot of great opportunity, you know, and so I feel proud of that, but I don't, just like fishing,

you're not going to guarantee anything, and you're never going to, you know, you just never know, you can never count on anything. You know, I'd never take it for granted. I've never done that, never will. Even in some of the, you know, adventures that we're on, never take it for granted. It's just the way it is.

Why is quitting smoking so hard? I mean, I don't mean to ask an obvious question, but something you just said made me think that, you know, is it truly a chemical addiction, or is it a leverage issue, or is it the fear of becoming somebody different? I think within myself, I think somebody different is a,

I think that's what it is for me. Last night, you know, watching television with my wife and I wanted to go outside and have a smoke. And you start fidgeting and you're just nervous wrecked. And I thought about it, you know, like, is that me? And I think about all the time. But that doesn't, and it's an image of you. But yeah, I think it's like, is this who I am? And is this who I want to be?

The answer is no. and the answer is no every day. So then depression sets in and the whole nine yards. As far as when you're on the boat, like Phil, you know, fans have seen it a million times where his legs are shaking and he's just got one in the ashtray, one in his mouth and one in his ear. One behind his ear. I literally saw Phil with a lit cigarette behind his ear like a pencil. And he had one near the wheel and one in each hand.

I mean, he was a human chimney. And it's disgusting, but yeah, it's very habit-forming. They say that they're worse than heroin or some of these drugs out there. And I don't know. I've never done drugs like that. So it's really hard. What about leverage? I mean, did you ever read a story?

Stephen King wrote this years ago. It was called Quitters Inc. And this is an organization that had a 100% success rate in helping people quit smoking. So what they did was they were all former like CIA special ops guys who ran this organization, Quitters Inc. And you would sign a piece of paper and you'd agree to play by their rules. And they would basically monitor you. And they had very sophisticated monitoring equipment. And if you lit a cigarette, what they would do is take a finger off your kid's hand and send it to you. Oh, nice. Yeah. And if you live a cigarette, what they would do is take a finger off your kid's hand and send it to you.

Oh, nice. Yeah. And if you lit a cigarette, what they would do is take a finger is take a finger off your kid's hand, lit another one, they might do something really unpleasant with your wife. And things got very, very dark, very, very fast. But the point of the story was, in the end, we can put anybody on the couch we want and we can talk about not being ourselves. We can talk about chemical addictions and all this other stuff. I wonder if it's really just a question of leverage. Well, I leverage myself with grandchildren, right? It's like every time I, you know, I see a picture, see his face, you know. I'm just, I'm like, what a schmuck.

You know, don't you want to be around? And so I do the guilt trip myself. But I hear from other people. But like you've said before, you know, when you get this kind of notoriety, it doesn't matter where you're going. You're going to get it. And you're going to hear it a hundred times over. And it's something that you already know instinctively.

So, you know, it's just, it's just, I don't, I can't put my finger on it, pal. I remember my father, he smoked Paul Mall. And when I was a kid, you know, they used to take those big cases. We wouldn't, they wouldn't buy cartons. It was cases. Cases, right. Cases. And, of course, they're tax-free and bring them home.

And I remember throwing a box, a case. I remember throwing it off the roof. because I wanted them to quit. I wanted to understand that I hated them that much. How old were you? I would say I was probably 10, 11 years old at that time. And you went up. And you know, the roof really easy, real easy.

Yeah. Because we had a, there was a rabbit cage, and then we had a little like a shed and then the roof. So it was just bang, bang, bang. Took those, I don't know how many dollars they were worth right off the roof, right out in the driveway. What do you do? yelled in Norwegian,

kind of just shook his head and then just like did one of these and then that was it. I figured he was going to really lay into me and beat on me, but he didn't. You said rabbit cage? Yeah. What are you doing with a rabbit cage?

Well, they're bunny rabbits, you know, so you feed them, play with them. Eat them? If you're hungry, sure. Hold on, man. I feel like I'm right on the, I feel like I'm right on the verge of learning something new about you. See, this is, and now I'm not sure how manly it is for the most famous crabboat fishermen in the world to confess that he grew up with bunny rabbits and cages because they were cute.

But really, did you guys eat them? Because I know a lot of people who raise and eat rabbits. Yeah, and they had, like we always had dried fish. So, you know, you would dry the, you know, you filet it. And then you'd have dry fish hanging in your garage, you know. So, I mean, it smelled like a pretty horrible sight. I mean, like, you know, you can imagine neighbors coming over and they're like, what the hell is, you know, it's like a slaughtery. But anyway, it was, it's all right.

I just want people to, you know, join me with the image currently burned into my retina of a young SIG crawling over rabbit cages with a case of palm all under his arm up on the roof to throw it off to, to show his dad just how worried he was. But, I mean, obviously, here you are, what, 40 years later, you know, what's your grandkids? Are you kidding me? You're holding up a pack of camels. There you go. That was John Wayne's. That was, yeah.

And when you gave me that clip, like I said, I had tears in my eye. Because when you, when you flipped it over to Phil, and then I started thinking about this horse shit and then the two and I'm just like oh my gosh you know anyway it was yeah

look man you know what I actually I felt kind of bad I called you a week ago and asked if we could talk about this and you said sure because in my mind the thing I remembered most about the chapter

of course was Phil and David Zazlov and that meeting that they had you were there by the way you were there when David Zazlov and Phil Harris wound up talking for an hour, which no one has ever seen before. David doesn't talk to anybody for an hour. But then I thought about, oh, man, John Wayne, cigarettes, Phil's cigarettes, the Big C, the Little C, and now here you are. Couple heart attacks dealing with all this.

So I didn't, I don't want to put you on the couch or anything, but I do realize that you, You really do, my friend, have a front row seat to every aspect of this topic from fame to cancer, to heart attacks, to cigarettes, to being under a microscope and being seen as a manly man among men. And, you know, no pressure, dude. But we're all watching. Yeah. We're all waiting. See what Sig's going to do. there you go

and then I suppose you feel for me personally I feel like a weaker manly man I feel like I'm not living up to my expectations of others

my wife included so so when you when you toss these things again is it for the people outside the door or is it for me

it's got to be for me and then grandchildren and of course, you and my wife. You know, bottom, bottom line. But yeah, do you toss them for everybody else? You know, and the answer is no. You've got to do it for yourself. You know what?

We've said this about safety before, too. You can't care about somebody's well-being more than they do. And if you're on the other end of it, you can't let somebody care more about your safety than you do, because that's the beginning of complacency. That's when people get hurt, whether it's vocationally or whether it's just through personal choices. You're right. It starts with you. It has to.

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Pick up a bottle at noblespirates.com. K-N-O-B-E-L-Spirates.com. Soon may the nobleman come to bring a bottle for a Everyone one day when the weightin is done, we'll take a drink and go. Right. And the fact that it, you know, I've done it, improved it, gained about 50 pounds, but whatever. And then the fact that you can't do it again, I feel less of a man because I haven't done that. Maybe. Which is just the craziest thing to ever say.

You know, I don't know. I think, I mean, I want you to quit. Everybody who cares about you want you to quit. But at the same time, this, you, you're weirdly sensitive. Very. You really are. And I didn't, I didn't see it. You know when I actually saw it the first time?

It wasn't on the show. And it wasn't in a mainstream press interview. It was a year ago in March. Maybe it was April, this month, I think. Do you remember when we did the first episode of after the catch, after the lockdown? Lockdown, it just started. I was sitting right in this seat. The network was in an absolute panic because the content just dried up.

And I talked to Nancy Daniels over there and said, you know, why don't we just do a show from my couch or something? We got to do something. And they're like, well, after the catch is still sitting there. Anyway, you guys were all game. And I think we did probably the first Zoom show in the history of TV. I mean, it happened very fast. And in that first episode, I asked you straight up how you were faring. You told me about your mom living in the house.

about being scared to death to see her, about sliding food under the door. And you literally wept. And you stared straight into your computer and by extension about two million homes and said, I'm scared. I am really no shit, frightened. And I thought that that was a really important thing for people to hear. just in terms of, you know, setting the table. You got my attention with it.

And I guess that's part of being manly. I think it is. I would think if you can be true to yourself, I'm learning more to be true to your feelings. I suppose the one thing cameras have taught me in your industry, television, is that, you know, if you just let it go, be yourself and not be a different person,

when they point that little thing at you, you know, obviously it sells TV. We know that. But at the same time, you learn more about yourself, you know. And I think, you know, you grow that way. So I don't mind it. One of the greatest. I try more than my wife.

Yeah? Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. You know the note, the movie was it the notebook? Sure. Yeah, okay. Wait a minute.

You're going to tell me you watch the notebook? Okay. we're on the boat. We were waiting to offload. Guys got this digital stuff they can click through whatever, and the notebook came on. We're waiting for our offload, and so I watched it. Never seen it before.

I heard it was a very touching movie, right? No idea. Anyway, I'm in tears. I mean, the water works. And as I talked to Yuna, you know, and I said, hey, oh, you might want to watch this movie. So she watched it. A few days later, and I said,

Hey, did you cry? What? Cry? Why? She never cries when it's, and if I'm sitting on this very couch and all of a sudden I'm, you know, trying to hide or, and I'm trying to hide, you know, tears and she's over there, what, what is your problem? So, yeah, I'm very sensitive. Why? And Phil was very sensitive.

Yes. I didn't know him nearly as well as you, but he was, man. What is it with you? guys. Why, why is it that you can take almost any crabboat captain and show them the right McDonald's commercial at just the right time and they'll be blubbering like a 10 pound baby girl? And then every one of them goes, it goes out there. And when it's, when it's attack time and when it's attacking you, you just suck it up and attack harder, you know, when it's blowing 50, 60, 70 plus. And it's weird. Well, I guess, I mean, unless Einstein is right.

right. You know, every action has an equal and opposite reaction. You know, and if you're the captain of a crabboat and your job is to sail right into the teeth of the gale and suck it up and risk everything often, then I guess maybe, you know, when your guard is down, next thing you know, you're quoting Spider-Man and you're, and you got your lower lip there quivering and it's, and you're watching, and you're watching the freaking notebook. All right. So are you going to start charging me for therapy? That's what's going to happen here. No, look, man, I'm not sure who's getting the treatment to tell you the truth because I always feel like I learned something when I talk to you. And part of the reason is because you're, you've embraced a level of humility in the midst of all of this. And honestly, I respect that a lot. You're not hiding the fact that you're struggling with those damn cigarettes. You're not hiding it. And you've actually, this is the other thing, forgive me, but it's a quick compliment,

but you and Phil both, I think, never mind the network, never mind the ratings, you actually take your viewers, your fans, you respect them, a great deal, you know, way more than I gave you credit for early on. I mean, honestly, I just did a bunch of crab fishermen, they don't give a damn. But at some point it turned, you know, and when Phil, dude, when Phil lay dying and he called Todd Stanley over and wrote on that piece of paper, you know, pick that camera back up and finish the story. That to me was one of the most extraordinary things I'd ever seen on television. And I mentioned in the book, after his first episode when he told the camera guys not to tell the crew, not to tell his kids that he was in that much agony because he didn't want them taking their eye off the seat. That's, you know, Stephen Spielberg said that was the single bravest thing he'd ever done on television.

So you're right there. You are being vulnerable in ways that I don't think John Wayne could have afforded to do at the height of his popularity. And you're doing things, I think, that ultimately respect your fans. Not everybody agrees with you. But I think you've been really honest through these last 17 years in a way that 99% of the celebs, I know in Hollywood can't even begin to approach. I think Phil and I and most of the guys would agree that, you know, with the show, my motto's always been fishing first, camera, second.

That's just always been the case. And with Phil, same thing. But he brought it to a different level with that, you know. And at the same time, it was pretty neat to see that he did that because, look, we're all ego-dra. You know, everybody, every one of us as a fisherman is ego driven. You always want to prove that you're the best in some way, shape, or form. Phil had a big ego, too. And, you know, and I think maybe part of that was just his ego talking, you know.

It's like if I'm going out, I'm going out big. I wouldn't put it past him. At the same time, he had no fear of the cameras because everything you saw was so natural, you know, and who wouldn't aspire to be like that, right? He taught me a lot of things about that out of the gate. And it's impressive, you know. But at the end of the day, he was still being himself, we were still doing the job first, and then it was the cameras after that, you know.

Actors and all these other guys, hats off, but they have to play to that. They have to, you know, that's their job. You know, we're fortunate to have a job. This is just a bonus. So it's kind of a pretty amazing thing to be a part. of. Who do you admire these days when you look around the country, the headlines, shows, whatever? Well, you know, I got to be on the apprentice with Trump for a while there. That took a couple, three months. And, you know, I don't like to get into politics because I'm not

big into them anyway. But that being said, you know, you learn as you grow. Um, I, I thought the fact that when I was on that program and the guy that I saw was, I mean, pretty much what he did, everything that he did and said then was the same as when he ran and the whole night. I admire the fact that he didn't hold back anything. He wasn't trying to play for cameras. You know, he might have taken a little bit too far on the Twitter and all the other stuff. But that being said, he did it, you know. on the shows and television. Well, of course you're one of them.

But Steve Harvey, I think is just freaking amazing because it's just great what he did, segwaying a book and his thing and the movie, all that stuff and then bang, bang, bang. I think that's cool. I think it's great. The absence of victimhood is an interesting quality. You know, I've never heard Steve Harvey bitch

about anything. I've never heard him. Not that he has much to complain about these days, but look, any of us could complain if we wanted to. We've been talking for nearly 45 minutes. You haven't complained about anything. You acknowledge things. You know, you talk about addiction, the same way you talk about the weather. It's coming, you know, up. Barometric pressures down, waves are up, blah, blah, this, that. Most of the people I admire kind of look around, see which way the wind's blowing, play the cards they get. There's not a lot of excuses. And look, I think I'll say this, not as the narrator, but as a viewer, the thing every captain I've met on that show has most in common is their complete lack of patience with excuses.

You know, you say I'm not complaining right now. I could start crying. I went to the dentist the other day. I said there was some pain here. And he took an x-ray, and I guess I've never had it before. You got to have a root canal? Oh, yeah. And then right here.

So this morning at 6 o'clock has taken Advil. A couple of days I've been taking those antibiotics. Nothing's kicking in. And so he drilled a hole in there. And then all this pus came out. I forget the word. It's infected. And I'm talking to you, and I love you like a brother,

but my mouth is on fire, and it hurts in my ear, in my jaw, and now it's down into my neck. You know what I mean? I'm not going to bitch about it, but I was thinking, fuck, man, I'm going to get more Advil. And it was 6 o'clock,

and I'm looking like, okay, so how much adble can I take and how many ibupolfen? And they said, you can take it all together. So I was just like doing that. And then, okay, Mike's going to be on here, get my shit together. And anyway, I got to wait until.

Well, no, no, you know what? This is a perfect place to probably put a bow on this. But let me show you something. Yeah. So we just started shooting dirty jobs again, right? I've been out for two months. Now, I'm older than I've ever been in my life, right? I mean, I'm 59 years old.

And three weeks ago, I'm in the bow of a tugboat that's being built. I'm in a shipyard. We're upside down. And I'm up in one of these little steel honeycomb coffins with a cutter, just trying to cut out some of the slag that's left there, you know, when they're putting this thing together. Well, stuff starts falling apart here. Let me show you this thing. As long as we're a couple of dudes complaining. See this right there on my shin?

So I'm curled up like a frickin' pretzel. And I got this torch and this molten steel falls down on my leg. Now, it hits my car heart and goes through it, you know, in much the same way a sharp knife would glide through butter. And when that hot steel hit my shin sink, it hurts so bad. Two things happen. The first thing was I gasped. The second thing was I farted. The third thing was, I mean, I immediately had a tear come down my face.

And then tell me if this has ever happened to you with that kind of injury. all the pain went away because the heat, I think, cauterized the nerves. And it went straight to my shin bone. Anyway, I got a hole in my leg now. And now it's starting to hurt again because the nerves are coming back. And I've been sitting here for the last hour going, you know what? I should have taken some Advil before this thing started to because my leg is freaking killing me. And here you are with pus coming out of your rotten teeth.

Oh, man. Well, you know what? If people don't take anything else from this, they should understand that even manly men left to their own devices will start complaining and turn to ibuprofen. Yeah. Oh, man. Season 17, when does this, when does this madness start again? When are you back on the air? That's 20th of April. Yeah. So that's a big one. It's going to be big. And I think they're going to, didn't they already put the first app up on Discovery Plus? Yeah, yeah.

That's already been aired. No, and Discovery Plus has got all of them. So that's kind of neat to look back and see how gorgeous I was for 17, 18 years ago. Oh, my God. Do you remember in like the first couple of seasons, they would do these shots where you would stick your head out of the wheelhouse and the breeze and your, you know, the breeze and your. and your blonde hair would be snapping in the wind. And I was like, who the hell is this guy? Singh, what is that?

Hey, man, you can always buy more. That's the good news, you know. May not be able to buy a lung, but you can always buy more hair. They just take it from your ass, shove it on your head. You're good to go. It's a beautiful thing. Take it to you make it.

You know, John Wayne wore a toupee most of his life. Is that right? Oh, yeah. You know what? You can Google it when we're done. There's a shot of him being interviewed on his boat. The fairly famous story, and Augusta Wynn came up and it blew it back. And the photographer took the shot.

And the photographer later had to decide, you know, am I going to put this out or am I not going to put it out? And he was tortured. He wound up putting it out there. Wayne didn't actually care. He hated the damn thing. But he wore it because, you know, studio wanted him to. And so actually, SIG, this is the place to leave it. Because in the end, in the end, people don't really know what to believe when they see a manly dude on TV, whether he's wearing a cowboy cap or a captain's hat or a tope, whether his teeth or leaking pus or whether he's welded his freaking leg off.

I mean, we don't know what they don't show us. but if this last year taught us anything, man, it's dangers everywhere, risk is real, and we've all got to navigate our own waters as best we can. And don't ever tap a manly man on the shoulder when you're behind him in a bar. Because he might be saying it, he might hit you in the face. On the positive side, on the positive side,

he'll buy you a lovely dinner later, and you'll be friends forever. I mean, how many of your fans have had the best, pleasure of getting punched in the nose by you. See, that kid's got a story. He's got a crooked nose, but at least he has a story. There you go. See, that's the way to look at it, Mike.

I love that. Congratulations on another season. Thank you for making the time to do this. Go get some medicine for your tooth. Tell Unae hello and Clark and Mandy. And the whole crazy clan, man. Good for you. You are like Ernest Hemingway, living life all the way up. I'm glad that I had the pleasure to know Phil, and he has been an iconic guy that I look back,

and I think, okay, you know, mistakes. Made a few, but. Yeah, I've learned from Phil. Well, and people still are. People are finding deadliest catch, 17, 18-year-old. people are finding it for the first time. And they're going on Discovery Plus and they're watching it from the beginning. And they're falling in love with you guys all over again. And they're taking that ride. He's still here.

That's the crazy thing. It's awesome. He's still here. Thank you, my friend. All right. Be well. Do me a favor. I'm going to say goodbye, but don't hang up.

I got to make sure we upload this thing because if it doesn't go right, then I will have to kill Chuck. And, you know, he's a dear friend. And I'd hate to see it go out like this. As for the rest of you, if you find my book absolutely titillating, you can download the whole thing wherever people download books, or you can just come back next week and I'll read you another chapter for free and talk to somebody else plucked from the depths of my misspent career and bottomless resume. SIG, it was really nice you to make the time. I do appreciate it. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it.

Adios. If you've ever wondered what combat actually feels like, not the headlines, Not the movies, but what it was like to be there. This is combat story. I'm A.J. Peschuti, a retired force recon Marine and scout sniper, and this show is for anyone who wants to understand the human side of war, through the people that lived it. I sit down with veterans from across generations and specialties,

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