The Way I Heard It with Mike Rowe - 214: Travis Mills—There's a Fine Line Between a Hero and an Asshole

Episode Date: August 24, 2021

Mike responds to America's withdrawal from Afghanistan in the only way he can - with the true story of a genuine hero, followed by a conversation with Travis Mills - a man who lost his arms and legs in Afghanistan, and lived to tell the tale. 

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a highly decorated cop, who, after decades on the job and multiple commendations, had come to the inescapable conclusion that many people who do brave and heroic things, himself included, where, in fact, the very same people whose daily behavior and attitude are consistent with that of an asshole. I was reminded of his observation during the course of my conversation with today's guest, an unrepentant smart ass and former staff sergeant in the army named Travis Mills. Travis lost his arms and his legs in Afghanistan, but not a sense of humor. he has since gone on to not only recover from his wounds but thrive. And today, Travis Mills is described by everybody as a true American hero.

Everybody, that is, but Travis Mills, who still insists that his actions over there were nothing more than those of a common soldier doing his job. Anyway, Travis is here because last week on my Facebook page, somebody asked me, in the wake of our sudden and shocking withdrawal from Afghanistan, if I thought the war was worth it. I responded by posting a photo of Travis and me and said that his opinion and the opinions of those Americans who had actually fought on my behalf were the only opinions I was interested in hearing at that time. Well, Travis saw my post and

offered to share his thoughts, not just on leaving Afghanistan, but on heroism in general. And I'm glad he did, because when it comes to our heroes today. I'm starting to wonder if maybe like Inigo Montoya from a Princess Bride, I'm starting to wonder if that word no longer means what I think it means. Last month, for instance, when Simone Biles withdrew from the Olympics, there was another lively chat on my Facebook page about the nature of her decision. Was she really a hero? As many people argued for bravely stepping away from a situation that she felt unprepared to face, or was she a selfish coward,

as others suggested, for putting her own interests before those of her team. Personally, I don't think Simone Biles is either one of those things, but I was struck by the fact that there was no middle ground. She couldn't simply be a talented athlete under unthinkable stress who had to make a tough decision. No, she had to be either celebrated as a hero or condemned as a villain. Nothing in between would do.

And of course, Simone Biles is not alone. Everybody, it seems. Even our ancestors has to be weighed and measured nowadays. Many Americans look at statues of Washington and Jefferson, and they see nothing but two patriots who made America possible. Many others look at those same statues and see nothing but two rich white guys who probably, prospered from the labor of slaves. On the one hand, I think we've made it virtually impossible for our

heroes to remain heroic by holding them to standards that didn't exist when they were alive. And on the other hand, I think we've redefined the word so broadly that today anybody can be a hero to anybody, which begs the obvious question, can somebody still be a hero to everybody? I think the answer is yes, and I have two candidates for your consideration. Along with the aforementioned Travis Mills, you will hear the true story of a Marine, who deserted his post during the height of the Second World War, an admitted liar, a forger, and a stowaway, a real asshole, some might say, who was caught red-handed, demoted to buck private,

and very nearly sent to prison for his rank in subordination. Instead, this demoted deserter was sent into battle where his actions earned him the Congressional Medal of Honor. One other thing before we begin, after last week's episode, I invited you guys to tell me in what direction you'd like to see this podcast evolve, assuming you'd like to see it evolve at all, while the feedback was voluminous and pretty close to unanimous. While a few of you would still prefer that I go back to writing six-minute stories for the curious mind with a short attention span, the overwhelming majority have encouraged me to welcome more guests, like Travis Mills, to discuss either the details of an old story from the library, or the details of a news story, if I ever get around to writing more of those, or the details of any topic that interests me.

There seems to be genuine enthusiasm for this extensive. format, and though it pains me to admit it, there seems to be a similar enthusiasm for Chuck, my old friend and preternaturally pedantic producer who continues to worm his way into more and more of these conversations. And so, for now anyway, I think I'll sally forth with the same basic approach with a few minor tweaks. With that in mind, here's the true story of a demoted deserter who performed above and beyond the call of duty, followed by a conversation that just might cross that fine line between heroes and assholes. This is the way I heard it.

The young Marine standing before the ship's commander was a liar and a forger. Happily, the commander didn't know that. On the downside, this Marine was also a deserter and a stowaway, both of which the commander understood all too well. Now, let me get this straight, son. You left your unit in Hawaii a month ago, just walked off the base without a word to anybody. Yes, sir. What's your full name? Private First Class Jack Lucas.

Wrong, the commander snapped. You're not a PFC anymore. Your commanding officer busted you back to private right before he put a bounty on your head. You're a deser, son, a demoted deserter. And you are in a world of trouble. The young man looked straight ahead as the commander took a final drag off his cigarette and stubbed it out. And now you're telling me that you've away on my ship because you want to fight on Iwojima? Yes, sir. And why in the hell would you want to do that? Former private first class Jack Lucas shifted his gaze to meet his commanders and held it as he spoke. I didn't join the Marines to push paper in a supply depot, sir. I've been riding a desk for three years. Let him punish me if that's what they've got to do. But let me fight first. The commander could

have sent this demoted deserter straight to the brig and then back to the states for a trial, a dishonorable discharge, and some mandatory prison time. But he knew that Charlie Company would need all the help they could get on Iwojima. And whatever else he was, the Marine standing before him, didn't seem like a coward. We landed five days, said the commander. You want to fight? I'll take you to a fight. Dismissed. Five days later, the ex-examined. Five days later, the Expeditionary force was on the island, making their way inland where the enemy was hunkered down in a vast warren of tunnels and reinforced bunkers. Jack and three other riflemen were picking their way down a steep ravine when 11 Japanese soldiers popped up from a nearby trench in open fire, sending the Marines diving for cover. 11 against four. Their odds were horrible, but the Marines fought with everything they had, and soon it was 10 against four.

And then nine against four, and then eight against four. But then two hand grenades arc through the air and landed in the soft volcanic ash just a few yards from Jack and right in the midst of his fellow Marines. Jack didn't hesitate. He dove over the men and onto the first grenade, smothering it under his body. The second grenade he grabbed with his free hand and held it tightly to his chest, shielding the rifleman in his chest. shielding the rifleman as best he could. A moment later, the first explosion lifted Jack off the ground, sending bits of flesh and uniform flying into the air.

The second explosion never happened. Then the Japanese soldiers charged, and the remaining three Marines killed them all in a furious hail of machine gun fire. Jack was left for dead, which, by all appearances, he clearly was. But of course, appearances can be deceiving. In fact, it was Jack's appearance that got him in the core in the first place. You see, when Jack enlisted three and a half years earlier, he appeared to be the perfect recruit,

180 pounds of solid muscle with a burning desire to avenge the outrage of Pearl Harbor. He was only 17 at the time, a year below the minimum age, but his mother had signed the mandatory enlistment waiver. So the Marines took him. Only problem was Jack had forged his mom's signature. And when the truth came out, he was given the choice of either going back home or riding a desk for the next four years.

Maybe as he lay there in a pool of his own blood, faced down in the mud 7,000 miles from home. Jack reconsidered the cost of his various insubordinations. Maybe, but I doubt it, because there was something else about Jack's resolve worth noting. You see, Jack's mom had refused to sign that enlistment waiver because she knew the truth about her son. She knew that Jack was not 17 when he enlisted, nor was he 16, nor was he 15. When the Japanese bomb Pearl Harbor, Jack Lucas was a 13-year-old boy. boy, a boy who decided right then and there to fight for his country.

That's why he forged his mother's name. That's why he lied to his superiors, deserted his post, and stowed away on a transport ship. That's why, at 14 years of age, he became the youngest Marine to ever wear the uniform. That's why, when he finally turned 17, Jack Lucas became the youngest Marine since the Civil War. war to receive the Medal of Honor. And that's also why, on his 80th birthday, Jack Lucas looked back on his illustrious career in a way that few survivors can as the only member of the United States Armed Forces to ever be recognized for bravery and valor above and beyond the call of duty while fighting

as a demoted deserter. Anyway, that's the way I heard it. Do do do do do do do. Dumb. Is it weird to love people but despise human resources? If so, well, color me weird. It's not to say I don't respect the millions of people who work in HR departments and companies all over the country. I do.

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ZipRecruiter.com slash row. The smartest way to hire. I first heard about Jack Lucas from Secretary of State. George Schultz at the Marine Corps Ball, which I attend every year here in San Francisco. About seven or eight years ago, Secretary Schultz was the keynote speaker, and afterwards, we had a fun chat about dirty jobs, which I was flattered to learn. He watched. He was a Marine himself, of course, Secretary Schultz was, and had seen plenty of his own dirty jobs, had lots of stories, and we shared a few that night over a beer. And somewhere in the course of our

conversation he told me about Jack Lucas, and a few years later, when this podcast became a thing, I wrote the story you just heard for Veterans Day. As always, though, there's a lot more to learn if you want to take a deeper dive, and I recommend that you do. As I was researching this tale, I came across his memoir. It's called Indestructible Jack Lucas's memoir is. And, man, what a life. What a life this guy lived. What happened on the first. Iwo Jima obviously helped define him. But afterwards, he went into business briefly, was an entrepreneur, and then he kind of retired from that, and went back in the service. And in 1961, he was training to be a paratrooper. And on one of his early training jumps, he went out of the

plane at about 15,000 feet, and his main parachute didn't open. And then his backup Upshoot failed to open, or at least it didn't open properly. By all accounts, this guy hit the ground like a lawn dart, but somehow survived the impact. And Lucas credits his survival. Let me read exactly what he says. To my stocky build and my last-minute decision to roll. Who survives falling out of a plane with no parachute? Unbelievable.

But it gets even better. A few years later, his house burns down, like all of it. And he barely escapes with his life. And then his wife at the time attempts to have him murdered. I mean, you can't make it up. This is probably why his memoir is called Indestructible. Jack Lucas finally died on June 5th, 2008 in Hattiesburg, Mississippi, and he is still the youngest Medal of Honor recipient since the Civil War. Travis Mills, on the other hand,

who you are about to meet, is alive and well and causing all sorts of trouble wherever he goes, including on this podcast. Travis calls himself a recalibrated warrior, and he is certainly that. Other people call him a motivational speaker, an actor, an author, and a tireless advocate for veterans and amputees. His memoir is called Tough as They Come, and it's in New York Times, best seller. His motto is never give up, never quit. And believe me when I tell you, it's a motto he lives by. Travis is one of only five quadruple amputees from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan to survive his injuries. And he is a real, he's a real hero and a real piece of work. Quick story. Before we begin, I met Travis in 2014, in D.C. He was speaking. He was speaking.

at something called the Science and Engineering Festival, and so was I. There were about 250,000 people at this event, and lots of different stages, right, all over the Convention Center. Travis was somewhere in the middle on a pretty small stage, talking to a relatively small group of people. I, on the other hand, was all the way on the far side of the Convention Center talking to a few thousand people, and after my speech, I had to get to the opposite end of the Convention Center to talk.

to another big crowd. So I've got this security detail who's like running me through tens of thousands of people. It was kind of obnoxious, honestly. People were getting pushed aside, and I felt like an asshole, you know, running through a crowd so I can get on to the stage. When out of nowhere, some guy appears who says, hey, Mike Rowe, I got a guy who wants to say hello to you. I don't know how he got past my security, but he did.

and suddenly he's like running with me. And I'm like, well, who is he? And he says, his name's Travis, and he really wants to meet you. And I said, well, get him over here. I can't stop. And he said, well, it'd be simpler if you came to him. And I said, what, are his legs broken? And this guy says, well, not exactly.

And there was something in the way he said, not exactly, that made me stop and say, okay, where is this guy? And he leads me behind a curtain, my secure. detail follows me and there's Travis Mills sitting in this chair and he stands up to say hello. But he doesn't really stand up. He kind of unfolds. He's got two prosthetic legs and a giant smile and no arm on the right side of his body and a prosthetic left arm. And it just takes my breath away. you know, when you see somebody like that that you're not expecting to see for the first time. But he comes like lurching toward me, just smiling and full of enthusiasm, saying,

Mike Roe, my God, I'm so honored to meet you. I just wanted to tell you that for two tours in Afghanistan, we watched your show all the time. Are you going to do more dirty jobs? What was your favorite dirty job? What was the worst dirty job? And for like 15 minutes, this guy wants to be. to know all about me. Doesn't talk about himself at all. He just wants to talk about me. And I just remember feeling like such an asshole for being in such a hurry to suddenly being so completely humbled

by a guy who had sacrificed so much for my account on my behalf. Anyway, we've been friends ever since. Every time I talk to him, he tries to get me an endorsement deal. I don't know why. I think he saw me do a bunch of work for Ford. And now, I'm not working for Ford, and I think he thinks I need a job. I, on the other hand, I'm trying to get him his own reality show, because the guy is a reality show. I got him on Returning the Favor, surprised him a couple of years ago with a ropes course that we put there at his retreat up in Maine.

And like I said, we've been friends ever since. I'm a huge fan of what he's done with his life and what he continues to do, and I can't wait for you to meet him. He's my friend, former Staff Sergeant, Travis Mills. Do you want to get paid to wear jeans and make a butt look good? I did that once about 10 years ago. My ass now looks like two pounds of chewed gum, so I don't know if it's going to work. But yeah, sure.

Okay, so if you want, I can give you his email and then that way you can have your team reach out, see what they're thinking. My team. But, yeah, don't pretend. Let's not do this. That's not pretend like you don't have a team. My team's on the call right now. Team Chuck. You're looking team, too.

Yeah. With his freaking microphone, unbelievable. And nothing wrong with that. this one. Why aren't you jamming your fabulous ass into these jeans, though, and rocking it in the real world? I don't wear pants. You know, I don't wear pants.

I tell you, the one good thing about COVID, I mean, hell, I'm in my underwear right now. You guys don't even know? I'm wrapped in bubble pack. I've never felt more free. Exactly. Exactly. I'm just hanging out. I've got the shirt on, and I'm good to go.

I put the COVID-19 pounds on for sure. Chuck, if we officially started. started. Yeah, I'm recording. Oh, good. So people have an image of naked Travis Mills seared into their retina. I'm being real, buddy. I got on my chubby shorts and my thighs are looking good. Dude, you have, if nothing else, you have always been real. I have known you now since, was it 2014? We met in D.C. Yeah, that's when I went against Bill Nye, the science guy, at a science convention. And luckily, he had the big stage and they were ready to walk past him. They stopped to listen to me. So I took all of his fans at a science convention. Ha ha, ha, winning.

Good. I love it. You know what? I did something on stage with him there as well. I don't know. What did you think of him? What's your take on Bill? Oh, no, no, I didn't meet him. My stage was a small stage for Lockheed Martin. He was on a big grand stage where you got to play on because obviously you're famous. But the truth is, people had to walk past me to get to him. So whenever he was up, I was up and I sold everybody. Yeah. No, it's good. good because whatever it's what I do well first things first how you doing how have you weathered the last year and a half it's super weird for everybody is it doubly weird for you somehow i'll tell you what you know I do the motivational speaking and I travel around this wonderful nation

of ours and that came to a screeching hall so I did a lot of like virtual ones and if you ever talked into a camera we should probably have but that had no reaction from the people on the other side when you're trying to tell jokes like I'm like hey guys first thing you need about me is number one, I'm awesome. And I'm humble. And I'm like, do they even get, you know? And I'm just like sitting there at the camera, like staring at it. And I'm live.

So I just move on. But I got a lot more time with my family than I thought I was going to have, which is really cool. And my daughter's turning 10. You know, my son just turned four on this past Tuesday. So, yeah, very, very blessed man, you know. I put on COVID-19 pounds. So that sucked. I got to work on that.

It's this whole- 19 pounds? I don't know if it's 19 yet, but I'm on that man. diet. It doesn't seem to ever work for me. How's that work for Mignon Diet? It's always tomorrow. Yeah. Started tomorrow.

Yeah. I was on that diet for years. It was great. Years. Good fun. I mean, I'm nailing it. Okay. So, Kelsey's good?

Kelsey is good. Yep. Kelsey is doing fantastic. She likes the kids, you know, not so much me, but that's to be expected. Sure. It's me. But, no, we're doing really well. You know, the foundation is growing.

we have a $6 million build going on starting September 11th, we're having a big gala. And then September 12th is the house open, open house. Yeah, the house is open house. We're just, we just get through nine weeks of families coming out. And we also started a Postromatic Stress program. So, you know, we're just rocking and rolling and keep it, keep on going with it. Is the rope's course still there from returning the favor? It's still there. Of course, it's still. Everyone's favorite. And matter of fact, let me tell you something. So Kelsey and I, you know, like, I can't blend in, you know, because it's my smile,

give me away. Whenever I go anywhere, they're like, oh my gosh, I'm trying how it smells. I can tell my smile. When they say that, I'm like,

that's what gave me away for sure. It had to be these pearly whites. But Kelsey blends in, and she likes to blend in. And she would rather blend in. So we have families when we go out and meet them usually. And Kelsey actually is a ropes coordinator. She goes up there and she,

like, coordinates the rope course. She was so afraid of it. At first, and now she's like, just like a monkey running around. And one lady had to get rescued and she got to the ground. And she got to the ground. It was all flustered.

And she goes, oh my gosh, that's so embarrassing. I'm so glad Kelsey and Travis aren't here to see this. And then she looked at Kelly goes, well, when's Kelsey and Travis getting here? And Kelly, I'm chief operating officer now. But Kelly looks over and goes, that's Kelsey right there. And the lady was like almost in tears. Like, I'm so, this is embarrassing. I didn't even.

And Kelsey's like, I'm not sure what. Like, I'm a regular everyday person. So don't even worry about it. But it's going well. Good. Just to help the listener out. I used to do the show returning the favor on Facebook. And we got to that point where, you know, I realized I could kind of steer the

direction of the show if I wanted to. So I suggested Travis as a potential honoree. And dude, you were so great. And what you have done up there in Maine was so, well, I mean, you know, it's inspirational. I'm not going to blow sunshine. You've heard it all. But it was fun to watch those TV people get a load of you and then turn to me and say, how many more guys do you know like this? It's a pretty short list. Well, I still got a cool tricks. Like that still doesn't hurt. You know, my hand goes around 360. So that's good. So, yeah.

You realize this is a podcast, right? And people can't see you doing these terribly hysterical sight gags, right? You realize that you're a narrator with one of the greatest voices ever known in mankind's history. So I figured you would explain exactly so people could close our eyes and just imagine exactly as you paint that most beautiful picture like Picasso. But, okay, I'm sorry. No, no, no, no. You make a great point. Let's all use our requisite talents.

Close your eyes, listener. And imagine, if you will, Travis Mills. ever so gently defying the laws of physics as his prosthetic left hand slowly rotates in a fashion that is completely and entirely inconsistent with the skeleton that God gave us. That's right. Your mouth just dropped wide open and then you started to giggle and laugh at the thought of this most ridiculous movement. Anyway, I'm sorry. So look, you champion, like treating you good. I mean, you're probably going to ask that. What's going on with you? for what's fresh, fun and exciting.

Look, it's great. I mean, you and I actually, weirdly, occupy a big chunk of the old Venn diagram. I do a lot of this thing where I sit here in my bunker and I tell stories. You know, we've pivoted and done as good a job as we can, I think, at keeping the speaking thing going. Lots of Zoom TV. But we've also been out in the real world shooting the old-fashioned way as well. So it's been a total mixed bag. I thought of you, and I wanted to reach out.

Well, frankly, because I think if you almost constantly all of the time. Not weird at all. No, it's just the COVID wardrobe. I wonder if that's what got them on the, you know. That's it. The talk of your thighs earlier, I think, is what did it. Yeah, your well-muscled thighs is. That Linda Blair move with the left hand does also.

No, man, you're, you've been on my mind because you're kind of a torture in the sense that I have never come across anybody where I've been so certain that they need to have a hit TV show in prime time. And the fact that that show does not yet exist has become a pebble in my shoe, a thorn in my side. Well, I'm ready for it, buddy. I'm ready to. I know you are. We're putting a brewery in right now. I'm putting a brewery right next door to that marina. I have 180 boats now. We've grown from 77 to 180. I got a cafe we run. We just bought $130,000 a brand new avalon pontoon boats. And me and Zach still have no idea what we're due. This is the most chaotic main thing you've ever seen.

It's like, what are these morons doing? I'm going to circle back and hit this again at the end of our conversation, but let me just get it out of the way now. Anybody in Hollywood who fancies themselves a producer or who works for some organization that fancies themselves a network, the reality show of reality shows is happening right now at a place in Maine with a guy who lost. All four, three and a half. How do you even describe the loss?

All four limbs, all four limbs, gone. But now he's back without a trace of self-pity, running a bait shop and a hotel and doing, God knows what else, on a lake up in Maine with his crazy friend, Zach. I'm telling you, it's TV gold. And if we don't get the cameras up there stat, I just don't know that we're going to be able to live with our collective selves. I mean, I'm putting in one of the coolest breweries around.

It's getting built. It opens in October. I'm back to speaking. It's funny, I open a brewery, I'm also on the road, 23 of 31 days in October. I'll tell you what, it's crazy. But I appreciate you saying that because I want to be famous because I see how cool you are. And I'm like, man, one day, I could just get close to being as cool as micro.

I mean, this guy is so, I mean, you talk about the posters on the wall when you're in high school. You know, Kelsey's weirded out. By the three I have on my wall with you on them right now in my bedroom, but I don't know why she's weirded out by it. You know, makes sense to me. Chuck, did you send him the story of Jack Lucas? As a matter of fact, I did, yes. Did. How impressive.

You know, at first I'm like, this turd went AWOL? Ooh, write them up. Send him back, you know, leaving his guys for a month to hide on a ship. But then you hear the whole story like that is impressive. Like, that's dedication. Then you got people now that words hurt. Oh, I need to time out my words. They hurt me.

Am I not supposed to say that? Probably not. I'm sorry. As you know, you have permission to say any. anything you want, do anything you want. Well, last I checked. But you know what? There are a lot of people on my current Facebook thread. And again, this is the other reason I wanted you on.

A, we got to get you a TV show. B, you're on my mind as I read the headlines about Afghanistan. And that reminded me of Jack Lucas, one of the bravest people I know and one of the people who actually you can call a hero without like blushing or wondering if you're using the word wrong. So I want to talk to you about all that stuff. And I don't care what order it comes out in. It's just that there's nobody else I know who's more uniquely qualified to talk about all of that stuff in whatever way you want. But there are thousands of people on my little Facebook page right now who are trying to answer the same basic question that must have gone

through your mind at some point in your odyssey. Was it worth it? Is it worth it? What the hell are we doing? Ladies and gentlemen, the thoughts of Travis Mills. Well, I'll tell you what, I got a ton of them, too. So in all honesty, it was definitely worth, it was worth the struggle that we did. I do feel like that needs to be said. I think the service members out there that are suffering, that are wondering what was it all for, the guys that ended up like me, this families out there that lost their loved ones, whether it was overseas or maybe they came back and they had crippling PTSD and, you know, took their own life because that is an issue now. I think it's important that people realize, like, No, we did good.

We did a lot of good. You know, we built hospitals and schools. We provided medical care throughout the region. We showed them away to a free country. And at the end of the day, the fairy tale stories that you see in Hollywood that always come out, the underdog wins. This is not one of those stories. This is not the one that it's all going to go the way that we planned. And unfortunately, it took us 20 years to get out of there.

I sat in the Oval Office with President Trump, you know, a couple of years back. He asked me, hey, do you think we can win the war in Afghanistan? said, what answer do you want? Do you want the real word or do you want the one to get told? He said, I would rather have to be very candid and tell me the truth. I said, I'm going to tell you right now. You're never going to win it. And he was like, huh, I said, you're fighting an ideology. You're not fighting these conventional army. I mean, look at Iraq. It fell in three days. Conventional army fell in three days to us. And then all of the, you know, ISIS and Caliphate and Taliban and al-Qaeda and all the people were fighting, they all just did their own little things. And the Taliban have fought,

like we fought in the Revolutionary War since day one with the Russians and all the way back through history. So when the administration now is like 11 days, that's insane, the Taliban lived amongst the people. They always have. The same guy that you waved at working his field that waved at you just went out with his buddies earlier that morning and shot at you. And you can't prove it. And if you could prove it, if you didn't do it right, they'll let him go. The guy that blew me up, Mike. The guy that blew me up, we had him captured him and three of his buddies. We went 10 clicks walking back, 10 kilometers back to our base after raiding this compound and getting him 400 or 600 pounds of homemade explosives, AK-47s, RPGs, right? Knew they were bad, but because we

didn't take pictures with them and all this stuff, the Afghan National Government let them go. We did put them through the hide system, it's called. We got their irises scanned. We got their fingerprint scan. So when I hit my bomb, there was 13 in a row. I hit one of them. The other 12, as my unit found them safely and took them back and got them all forensic analysts on them, they found that the guy that we had captured, that we had to let go, his fingerprints were all over him. So I let the guy go that blew me up. My guest today, Tom, Tom, Tom, today, Tomolbenis is an American giant, and I'll tell you why. Tom understands on a fundamental level, that the business of mining is a non-negotiable prerequisite of our civilization

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the wash, you're getting a garment that'll get better with age. Check out their high quality staples, hoodies, teas, denim, built to be worn year after year at American-dash-giant.com slash Mike. It's quality you can feel and a true American success story that you can be proud to support. Use code Mike. Get 20% off your order at American-giant.com slash Mike. That's what we were facing with there. So I told President Trump, I said, you know, the one thing you can do, if you're not willing to bring everybody home, is you can open up the rules of engagement because it was a sad state of affairs.

I went under President Bush, where I was able to do what I had to do to come back home. I went under President Obama with President Bush's war tactics and his rules and engagement. And then I went under President Obama with President Obama's administration's tactics. And at that point, you realize, what are we doing here? I couldn't go out at nighttime. The president of Afghanistan told our administration it made his people feel scared. So then the Taliban gets freedom of movement throughout the whole entire region at nighttime. And we can't drop mortars.

We can't go out of nighttime to get them. We just watch them put bombs in the ground and hope we don't step on. Unfortunately, I stepped on one. So I do agree that there needed to be a withdrawal from Afghanistan. There was no word that we were going to win over there. There wasn't. Osama bin Laden getting shot in 11 probably was like, all right, cool, we did it. We showed them we're here to, you know, let's party if you want to party.

And the one thing you can say is there was no attacks on our home soil. Now, why would they do the withdrawal before September 11th? Makes no sense to me. Why not wait until like October, November, a less significant time in our history and their history with us. But truthfully, we own seven bases, Kandahar and Bahagamar Air Base, is strategically placed in the region. We should have kept those. kept places in South Korea, in Germany, in Italy, and everywhere we fought. And for some reason, we get back those two. And now everybody's trying to get to Kabul to a small, tiny airport.

I mean, I'm rambling and I apologize, but, but no, I think we should have left. But the way it was done is, it's just ridiculous. And then I'm seen on the news, and I'm not sure if it's true or not. You never can tell that they might go and actually have bombers, bomb our equipment that we have over there. Do you know how much bombs actually cost the American people? Do you know how much the equipment costs the American people? Now we're going to use our own tax. pair of dollars to blow that up like this it's it's uh it's out of control and to blame it on the afghan nationals that didn't stand and fight the army wasn't paid for like seven months and the diplomats what support did they have you know i don't know i'm sorry i'm on a soapboxing i don't mean to be

angry either because i think it's important that people know like we did good over there it was time to leave i'm mad about the execution of how we left i think it was not well thought out and pretty ridiculously dumb. And now we're seeing all of it unfold in front of our eyes and you have people out there questioning, was it worth it? And I never questioned, was it worth losing the arms and legs? Because I don't ask why did I lose them anymore. I'm so fortunate my wife, my family, the foundation, the work that we do, and to still

be here. And I lost really good friends. And I think I honor them every day by not giving up on myself. And I think it's selfish if I ever, you know, thought a different way because they lost so much to not come back to their families, whereas I'm here with my family thriving. How does it feel to you when you hear this four-letter word thrown around that starts with an H and ends with an ERO? I'm really interested in the way individuals process that word, and I'm somewhat dismayed by the way it gets thrown around to describe what we used to just call role models or just people we like. Yeah.

What did you see over there that struck you as truly heroic? I mean, people call me American hero, right? And I appreciate it, but I'm like, I did nothing special. I don't deserve me calling the hero. I've done things overseas that were heroic. I ran to a firefight, picked a guy up. You know, I tossed my M-4 and my first sergeant ran down to a dry river bet because the guy was towards MCL ACL and meniscus and all of stuff and his knee and couldn't move.

And we're getting heavy fire, you know, and they won't give me awards and stuff. And I said, no, don't worry about it. I was doing my job. So when people say, like, it's so heroic. I mean, they use hero for everything. I mean, they call soccer players in the, you know, Olympics, heroes. And that's the most ridiculous thing in the world. You got to be kidding me. So it's lost its meaning. You know, if you use a word too much, it loses its meaning.

So there's things that are heroic and there's things that are just your job, you know, and there's things that you can do really well and you can get praise for them, but it doesn't mean you have to be called, I don't know. Again, I'm not sure if I'm saying what I need to say or the right things. I just want to make you proud of me. I want to make you so proud of me. I want to shut up. You, you, you, you, you, You don't understand. Look, everybody that I've ever met needs to have somebody in their life that gives them some kind of a gut check. And I think part of the reason you Forrest Gumped your way into a pretty interesting situation right now is because you can do that. Like, you can walk into

a room and everybody just has to take a big sip of shut the hell up with your problems because this guy has a story and we have to hear it. I know that you know that, but I'm curious as to how who in your life does that for you? Who do you look at? You've written an amazing book that's made it really hard for people to feel sorry for themselves. That's what I mean to say. Who in your world has done that for you?

I mean, you know, if she listens, if that's going to sound great for me, but I don't just say because it sounds great. You know, my wife, right? my wife and the spouses out there of guys that ended up like me because my wife, I gave her the option to take everything we had and go. And I encouraged her to do that. And she was like, no, we're not doing that. And her life now is, you know, putting up with me, which with arms and legs was a lot, but without arms and legs, too, you know. But, you know, that's someone that inspired me to do better every day. You know, my kids as well. Tell me if I got this right. The first conversation

we had back in 2014. I asked for the short version of your story. And I think you told me that your wife was your Corman's sister over there in like one of your first or second tours. Yep. First deployment. My medic went home to watch his daughter be born. His little sister sent a Myspace friend request. MySpace.

What the hell is MySpace? I know. I know. You're crazy kids. And everything. So MySpace friend requests came in. She was 18 in college. I was 20 in Afghanistan.

I had a decision to make. Do I make my medic mad and hit accept or do I hit the climb? And then I broke it down to like if there's one thing in life I'm really good at, it's antagonizing people. And what I mean by that is when I got injured, right? When I was blown up, my mom was talking to me by my hospital bed. I said, Mom, why did this happen? And she said, well, you know, karma.

So if that tells you anything. But I'm just kidding, obviously. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we went to Kazumel, Mexico, first time we ever met. I flew in from my deployment. I had overseas 11-half months. I had three more months to go. I had 18-day R&R.

I flew into Dallas to pick her up, and we flew off to Mexico together. Her parents were not impressed. But I was 6'3, 275, and she was a rebel, and we just didn't want it. So then I flew back to that. You were 275?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. They have these supplements you can get when you're overseas working out. They're good. Yeah. I had 22-inch arms, and I was like,

well, so, I have low self-esteem. I've got to make myself look pretty. That's why I did. I lift the weights to build myself up, so I felt good about myself. Yeah. So that's all I can do. You go on patrols and you work out. So I worked out three hours a day while I was over there. How long had you been married before you got blown up? Just shy of four years. Just shy of four and you had a kid on the way?

No, O'clock was born. She was four months old and I deployed and six months when I got injured. Kelsey and I, you know, we met my first appointment. I had to go for a year again. So I was gone. for a year and then I came back home. Then I had orders take me somewhere else and I just canceled them because my guys were overseas and she understood the calling of the brotherhood. So I canceled my orders because I told my sergeant major I got to deploy with my men and I did deploy. So I was injured in April and we got, well, I guess the cat's out of the bag.

We got married at the courthouse behind everybody's back on April 17th. We had a big way in June 21st. We celebrate 21st. But the day I got back to, so I got smacked on the 10th. They medically sedated me on the operating table. They were pushing me through the hogs. I kept trying to sit up and yell them to stop touching me. And my right arm, right leg were automatic.

They were gone, right? My left leg was snapped to the bone. Like, I was pretty mangled up. I kept sitting up and using my left elbow. And they were like pushing me down. Like, stop touching me. I'm fine. Like, let me alone.

I get my feet under me. I get my feet under me. Back to my guys. They're like, this dude's crazy. And like, they knocked me out. And then they did all their surgeries and whatever. And on April 14th, they woke me up the very first time and launched me up to Germany from my medical sedation.

And that's my mom and dad's favorite day in their whole entire lives because their favorite child was born on April 14. So my 25th birthday is when I woke up to find out what had happened to me. And then I arrived at Walter Reed on April 17th. And even though Kelsey and I never never like discussed April 17th, like she was like, happy anniversary. I'm like, no, we don't talk about that. We'll talk about in June.

It was still a real wedding. We just had like a fake minister there. So like no one knew anything. You hired an actor. No, he was an ordained minister. But he wasn't like. Oh, sure. Dude, I'm an ordained minister.

That doesn't count. I got one on the interwebs, you know. I'm legit in two states. You didn't have to sign any paperwork and you already did that. Like, so it was easy. They were like, you got cold feet and I'm like, no. Now I do though. Oh, man, they're dead and cold.

They go. Dude, you're killing me. That's my seven to bond hit me and said you're killing me. So there you are. If it's not the lowest point, it's got to be fairly low. And your wife says, no, no, this is not how that works. I'm not taking whatever's money's left. I'm not, I'm sticking.

Was it, was it relief or guilt primarily? You know, it's, it's the guilt and the burden, right? Like, I sit there and I wonder, like, what kind of like am I going to be able to have? Like, who would want to stay with someone like me? Because I have people who help me use the bathroom. You know, I have people feeding me because I have arms. And I'm sitting here going like, well, this is just, you know, you have a real force scum, like Lieutenant Dan moment.

And I know I'm friends with Gary Sneh. so I don't mean to bring him in the conversation. But at the same time, when Lieutenant Dan's like, I'm supposed to die on the field with my men, like that was like the glorious way to go out. And I'm sitting here in my bed going like, not suicidal. I need to make sure that's very clear. But the question is like, why didn't I just die?

Like how is this better? What is what is better about this than dying? And it took me not very long. I was like, like I said, suicidal. I was wondering like, what kind of life can I even have? You know, and then you meet people with prosthetics. Your wife says you're going to stay with you. And your daughter's right there is you're driving.

you know, motivate her. My daughter and I learned how to walk together. And you realize the cool things you can do. And then my buddy the other day, he asked me, I had to take it somewhere. And my father-in-law has me to get ready in the morning, usually not Kelsey. He was like, well, how come Kelsey wouldn't even help you get ready? I'm like, she wouldn't help me get ready. I said, I just prefer if she doesn't. And he goes, why? It takes only like three minutes. I'm like, yeah, but if she helps me get ready, then I feel like I'm, I'm her patient rather than her husband. And she doesn't make me feel that way, but it's more of like a, I guess, a pride thing, you know? It takes three minutes. It's worst part.

Everybody asks, what's the harsh part of your day? And some people drink black coffee in the morning because it's disgusting. And I've been told it's the worst part of their day. And they get out of the way at 6 in the morning. And I'm like, yep. No, my black coffee has vanilla creamer in it. And that's the way it is. Judge, if you will, Mr. Rowe.

I bet I will. You know I will. Yeah. Oh, I please. Please. But when the truth is, getting my legs on my arm on the proper way, it takes about three minutes if that. And it's like the worst part of my day because that's the only thing I need help with.

Now, I have a wheelchair in a van. get around in just fine without anybody helping. But if I want to drive my truck and blend in as much as possible, that's what it takes. And, you know, this is like the worst part of my day. And luckily, it's only three minutes of my day and I'm ready to go. So to circle back, if you're not a hero in your own eyes, who is to you and who in your world, aside from your wife, has done that for you, simply by nature of the fact that they can fog a mirror, that they exist, right?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, obviously, you're not fishing for it, and I know that, so don't take it like I'm doing this kiss here, kiss your butt. But, you know, the things we're returning the return in the favor and the work that you do and bringing light to blue collar jobs. I'm a blue collar kid. My dad was a truck driver. Mom was a grocery store manager. She worked away up from the deli at 18 to like running the whole entire place.

And you shedding light on that and letting people know, like, hey, it's okay. Like, I don't care what you think about blue collar jobs. Like, it works. And then coming out and helping with ropes course and believing in my mission and championing my foundation forward. People like Gary Sneese didn't have to, but does everything you can. There's people like that. And then, you know, obviously they say police officers and school teachers and nurses and doctors and everybody in the community like that. And I do believe that.

They're all doing their part and doing better making, you know, society a better place to be. I guess it's just your definition of hero, if you want military, if you want people that are making a big change or someone that dives into the water when a car goes underwater and tries to take care of it. You know, in my life, my biggest hero is probably my daughter. And I don't mean it to sound silly, but I don't think I'd be the same person without my daughter there. You know, my six-month-old laying on my chest and playing ball with me. I've only talked stern and my mother one time. Like never ever, like, yelled at my mom. Not that she's like a big lady.

She's five foot two, like a hundred thirty pounds. She's not scary at all. But I've never done that. And the one time I did, I woke up from a nap in the hospital and I said, oh, geez, how long was I out? She told me, I said, well, when's Chloe and Kelsey coming? and to visit, you know, and my mom was like, well, they already came, but you were sleeping. And I looked at my mom said, don't ever let me sleep through Chloe being here. She is the only reason it's worth getting better.

And I truly felt that. Like, I was there to get better, and she was champing me forward. And now I have my son who's four. His name's Dax after the medics, Daniel and Alexander made it possible for me to come back home. And I get my morning, I get every morning. But he likes his mom better than me, which is really upsetting. And I'm like, yeah, I'm like, here, play with matches or whatever. make me the cool dad.

Like, so, you know, I'm just kidding. But I have the ability to keep going on in life. And there's really just no reason why I should let my injuries hold me back or get me down because I've been given the gift of life and the ability to keep pushing forward. So those that sacrificed before me and those medics and doctors and nurses that worked on me that kept me alive, I feel like hopefully I'm honoring them and their sacrifices because those medics and doctors and nurses, they were loosened up just one tourniquet within in two minutes I would have bled out.

But they worked on me for literally 14 hours and gave blood from their veins to mind. It was insane. Tell me again, specifically the guys for whom Dax is named. Is I hear you talk about now? Well, I mean, just like everybody in general, but the medics that worked on me, Daniel and Alexander, like Daniel Bates and Alexander voice, like worked on me. And I was like, geez, what are we going to name this kid? Because I want to name Travis Mills, but apparently I'm conceded or some damn thing because

everything's named like my Travis Mill speaking group is named after me, my foundation. Your foundation, yeah, yeah. Me in general. So Kelsey's like, we're not doing that. I'm like, whatever, bro. I'm awesome. And we named him D-A-X. So it's Dax after those two, Daniel and Alexander.

That's awesome. Now, is Chloe's name still festooned upon what's left of your, is it your left arm? Oh, yeah. She's right there. I mean, you guys can't see it at home. But yeah, I got the tattoo. I actually, it's funny in my documentary that's out, that's been out for a while. I'm in the movie, like, rocking her from old family footage.

And that's the last day I actually held her. And the tattoo still was, like, shiny from the A&D alignment that I was putting on. So, yeah, I mean, I joke around and say that my wife's best wife in the world because when it came time to, like, name my daughter, we thought, why would we name the Sweet Angel after 14 hours of labor? And my wife looked at me and Kelsey with a heavy sigh, was like, we have a name of Chloe Lynn, don't me. I was like, no, we don't have to. Why do you think that? She said, well, because you idiot. you have your ex-girlfriend's name tattooing on your arm, you know, so he ended up for my ex-girlfriend.

But obviously that's not true. My ex-girlman's name is the devil, and she's terrible. You know, because, like, I came home from college football for her, and she had a boyfriend I didn't know about. So I joined the military, and I got blown up because of her. I'm over it. I'm totally over. Yeah. Sounds like it.

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You will too. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. How important? Because when I look back on it, I don't think you and I have ever really had a conversation where you weren't laughing, like hard, about something. You know, this is probably a stupid question, or maybe just a leading one.

But did you lose your sense of humor? If you did, when did you get it back? and how important it is, is it to you today? Well, you know, I think it's everything. I think it helps people understand that we're okay to have conversations about my injuries. I joke around, tell people like, it helps disarm a situation when I tell jokes. Did you hope it because they're gone? But more importantly, for a while, I was pretty bitter and angry in a couple days, if you will.

But then I realized, like, okay, I have to get better now. I didn't die. And I don't want to be in this hospital that forever. And I got things I got to do. And I can remember be in the hospital. I was in inpatient hospital for five weeks. So I got to move to an apartment after five weeks, you know, like I was healed up enough where I could be in a wheelchair and like sit in my own bed and stuff like that.

And I remember one day I watched a little girl walk by and I thought she had passed. And all the nurses were doing their change on. I was like now at a nurse at a nurse station. And I started yelling, oh my gosh, my arm's like, where did they go? I fell asleep. I had of where they go. And that little girl heard me and she came peek back in. It was like, I was like, oh, I'm just kidding.

I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. So I'm not so sure that I ever really lost my sense of humor. You know, there were times where I was a little bit bitter about it, but when you really peel it back and you understand, like, no other way it could have went and the things that I would be missing out on if I had died, then it's pretty easy to be just grateful for every day and every moment that you have.

And my slogan is never give up, never quit. And I really do believe that. And the only thing I need to work kind of like I mentioned earlier, my diet. because you would think as motivated as I am, I could figure out how to stop putting food in my mouth. But let me tell you. And you own a cafe, and you're like, hey, I'll take the salad. I'm like, you need a salad that has, like, bread on it

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sugar cubes for free. That's Code Carl with a C to get nine sugar cubes, ingeniously engineered to make nine perfect old fashions every time. It's my favorite way to support microworks and my favorite whiskey to sip responsibly after a long day of interviewing people on this podcast. Pick up a bottle at noblespirates.com. K-N-O-B-E-L-Spirates.com. Soon may the nobleman come to bring a bottle for everyone. One day when the waitin is done, we'll take a drink and go. I had a buddy who was a cop years ago who I had a similar conversation with, not about your diet, but just about this business of where the line is, whether it's a questionable joke.

And he had been shot up a couple years earlier and got the highest award you can get for a cop. And I forget exactly how he put it. He kind of buried it in the middle of a sentence. but the gist of it was, you know, Mike, there's a fine line in many cases between a hero and an asshole. And that makes sense, yeah. And really, I just kind of dismissed it at the time. But in order to do what Jack Lucas did to affirmatively throw yourself onto a grenade, you know, that takes a certain kind of person, a jagged little pill, I dare say, who probably rubbed. some people the wrong way once upon a time in their past, right? I mean, we have this tendency

to think of our heroes as people who have been like ordained or somehow destined or just these wonderful people who always do the virtuous thing. But from what I've seen of people who do like that kind of thing and that kind of moment, these are the people that wind up getting hit in the face in a bar from time to time. Right? I think Jack Lucas was like me was he like, oh, early retirement, there it is. And he went after it. I'm like, oh, 20 years are just six, you know, and six sound pretty good.

It's like we don't, like when I look back at the stories of heroism from the Second World War, they all feel different to me than the stories I've read about from Afghanistan. in Iraq and more recently. And I just wonder if that's because time, you know, changes the way we process stuff, or if somehow people are different, if heroes are different, or if something else has changed,

you know what I mean? Well, I mean, you know, we, there is a gentleman that has a medal for diving on a grenade, a Marine. Kyle Carpenter, he did that. Joe Dolbant, you know, if you know about him. And then also, if you talk to the, you ever see this show on Netflix, I'll post a movie

about cock Keating and all. all that. Yep. Is it Ty? That's the one, if you talk to anybody, like, Ty didn't get along with anybody. You know, even Dakota Meyer was not highly loved in his platoon, you know, in the Marines there. But those are the guys that got middle of arms because when push come to shove, that's what

you do. The guy that I went and rescued out of the Wadi bed, I mean, I didn't like that guy. Like, we weren't going to go drinking on the weekends together, but he was somebody that I would stick my neck up work to see, you know, red, white and blue, he bled America, and that's what you care about. So, so, yeah, I get what you're saying. And for me, there's a fine line. I get away with everything now.

Being handicapped. I'll tell you what. I got pulled over the other day. The cop pulled, I'm going 20 over. And I know I am because I'm on my road. And I'm like, this should be a faster speed limit. You know, like, that's my, that's my visual.

That's what I'm thinking. I'm like, you know, it's not, it's not my fault that the speed limit is 35. It's your fault. It's not 55, okay? Fixed it. Do you not know who I am? I have no arms and legs. And I get pulled over.

And then the cop comes walking to the back. side of my truck. And I'm on a hill. There's a construction crew doing a driveway. And then these cars are coming over this hill. It's very unsafe. And I put the window down. I say, hey, my house is up here. I'm not going to run. Officer, just follow me in my house quick. Just follow me up the road and come to my house. He follows me in. I pull up in that park. My seatbelt's off. My license is expired because it expired on my birthday. I mean, I got to get that fixed still. Don't tell anybody. But he walks up. And I'm like, hey, I got a call with History Channel. I'm trying to get Mike Road to get me a TV show right now. And

it's in 10 minutes. So we got to hurry this up. He goes, hey, you're Travis Mills. Yes, I am. I said, my foot got stuck. I couldn't even feel it, and I apologize. But if you got to rent me a ticket, it's okay. He goes, I like that you didn't use who you were the whole time knowing I was using who I was.

You are. Yeah. And my driveway is like 15 or 1,600 feet up the driveway. And it says Travis Mills home right there and a giant sign. It says the Travis Mills Foundation. Yeah, right. Well, yeah. Well, no, I was at my house is little different.

But he's, you know, not in the arms and legs give me away. And he goes, oh, he goes, oh, hey, well, it's okay. He took a picture of my license because I have to get it renewed. And it's funny, when I got my license the first time, it was $450. I couldn't believe how much a license from you thought. But for 50 bucks, I failed, you know, $400. You guys don't talk about money, buys everything.

So I tell him I got to go. Then my watch goes, ding. He goes, you're meeting got pushed you tomorrow. So, hey, my meeting got pushed. So we can actually, if you need to give me a ticket, I got time for it now. And he's like, no, no, we're good. And I was only going like 14 or 13 over. and he was like doing mornings.

And I looked at him, I said, hey, you want to see a fast sign? I can go up this hill. You know, I'm like, my driveway. You want to see how fast? I bet I can go about 55 up here. I've done it before, but you can't, you know? He's like, you're serious? I'm like, well, it's my own personal driveway.

I can do what I want, can I? But. And I'm not a name drop. Yeah, I'm the worst. No, I'm kidding. I respect all cops. And he was super nice. And he let me off because he was just in mornings that day because the road was getting kind of fast.

But you got to put yourself in his place, right? He comes home after a long day's work. and his wife is like, how was your day? And he's like, oh, it's great. I gave Travis Mills a speeding ticket. And that's really it. That's what happened to me today. You know, who's going to give you a ticket, dude? How's that even possible? So my dad talked himself into a ticket. The cops said, we're in her phone, sir? My dad can't, he can't text and drive. Can't walk and text. And my dad's like, well, I did check what the score to the Michigan game was. And he asked like, okay, what's the score? And the cop gave him ticket. My dad said, said, you got to be kidding.

I wasn't in that. He was frustrated. And I got pulled over one night going a little bit over the speed limit and the cop got a picture with me at 10 o'clock at night and hopped in my truck. And my father-in-law jump out and get a picture. And I called my dad right away. Hey, dad, guess what I got for? He goes, how much was it? I said, they let me off. And he goes, I hate you.

And there's this whole thing. So I showed him the picture of the police officer on my truck. I'm the side of it. No, I don't want cops. I know everybody loves you and they listen. So I respect cops. If you guys pull me over, like, I'll take the ticket and I'll cry. And my mom, Sherry, will call you if you give me one.

So I love cops too, but I'll just say it. If any cops are listening and you do give Travis Mills a ticket, just send me a picture of it because you'll be on the podcast next. And that's going to be an episode. Everybody's going to get me. I don't blend in. I got no arms and legs. I'm in a small town.

There's like 25 hundred people where I live. Hey, look, I want to come back and like hit this whole notion of a show again with a straight face. But is there anything else you wanted to stay? Because you've been on your 45 minutes and I know we can talk for like hours. No, I mean, I appreciate your. friendship, obviously, as well as if anybody wants to follow me on social media at SSG, Travis Mills is the best. And I'm going to, I'm kind of TikTok famous. No big deal, whatever. But, you know, look me up. So, you know, just like, hook a brother up. But no, hey, if you guys want

to come to Maine, we have open house at the foundation, come to walk through, see the great work that Mike and his team did as well as the work that my team does on September 12th. And if you guys are around for the gala 9-11, buy tickets, Eli Young Band's playing. And Mike, Mike says he's going to make a guest appearance. Hey, now, look, I'm going to do what I can. What do people need to know about the foundation that they don't? What do you need? I mean, I'm assuming money.

Yeah. I'm not even sure we made it crystal clear. Your foundation is focused on men and women who have endured similar injuries as yours and their families, correct? Yeah, absolutely. So thanks for giving the time to talk about it. I should be very crystal clear about what I do. I don't just take the money to the casino and try to double it.

Okay, good. I'm tripling it. Not anymore. Right. Yeah. But what we do is we bring out combat and service-connected injured veterans that have suffered physical injuries. And we have a retreat we built. In 1929, Elizabeth Arden, who was a cosmetic pioneer of her times, built this estate.

And we bought it. We renovated it for like two years. And it was quite a renovation, like $2.5. $3 million. And now we operate by bringing families, eight families per week that have all been through, you know, paralyization, imputation, spot cord injuries, something that happened in service. Doesn't mean it would happen overseas, but in service. service. And we show them how to do things adaptively, like kayak, archery, tubing, snowboarding,

sledding. We have the main game wardens come out, you know, like that Northwood's law show, Chris McCabe actually is one of the guys that comes out. And we have all these different activities and we show them like you can still be active. You can still do stuff with your family, don't live life on the sidelines. And we make sure it's all adaptive. And there's a rope's course that Mike and his team built that we have people, we have a guy that went through in his wheelchair. And he did the whole thing in his wheelchair, no problem. Like held on very strong. potty and you know I was like oh what a show all we'll get you in your hands and um but but we bring them out and we show them this this ability that they still have and we get them

with other families that are like them and now we also opened up a post-traumatic stress program because there's such a big need for that and it's for the service members called warrior path that's out of Boulder Press Foundation we get a big grant from them and it's an 18-month course that really does you know it's focused on post-traumatic growth so we don't use word disorder we don't even use stress, it's posturmatic growth. And anybody can sign up. It's for first responders too. They fit the bill.

And it's free to come up. You have to sign up on your own. You get interviewed by my PATH program coordinator. And then eight people come up once a month and they go through this first intensive week of the program. And then the rest is like online in group settings. And it's making a huge difference in the world. And we're so grateful to have the opportunity to be part of posturamic stress as well as physical injuries too. So we cover all injuries.

And it's about giving back, you know, just do what we can for those service members, especially the ones that maybe need a little extra push to know, hey, life's going to be all right. And you're doing great. And we appreciate all you done. And we support you. And we're thankful. And we want to help you move on and have a very successful and meaning life. Had your foundation existed when you got out of Walter Reed, what kind of impact do you think that might have had on you?

Well, you know, that's the thing. So the reason it started was I was going on all these trips. And I got to learn how downhill mountain bike. I took me up a 9,000-foot mountain in Mount Crescent View, and they stuck to get my prosthetic hands to the handlebars. They strapped me to a seat. They put a helmet on my head. They put the brakes on my thighs. I mean, I've got a thigh master home.

So, like, how am I going to squeeze that tight on a 9,000-foot mountain? Like, I'm not at home going like, and one and two, you know, like I don't. But they, I said, now what? And the guy said, don't die. And I said, what? And he pushed me down this mountain. And when I looked around on these trips, I was fortunate to go on with Walter Reed, which I'm very thankful for. I realized that the funding was for the service member, which it should be.

And if you were injured like I was, you know, usually triples and above, you had the ability to take what's considered a non-medical assistant. So my wife, Kelsey, was there experiencing all this, you know, great adrenaline rushes, these moments that I was like, I can still do this with my family. This is awesome. But then you got a guy that's injured with a paper cut, like a blow-the-kuitation on one leg, like, I didn't even hurt, bro. And they don't get to bring their families. You guys like that joke. Okay. So they get to bring them.

You got to give your audience a. chance to laugh draft you're hitting us with a lot of very very funny stuff but you know COVID did this to me if you got something first you get it I pointed that my life I pointed but uh so so they didn't get to bring their families and that's fine like the funding at the time was for the service member and as many as possible and it needed to be there but what I wanted to do was say it's not just a service member it's a family as well let's bring the whole family out and we have spouses this one lady was talking to another lady and it's not all women are spouse is like there's women that are injured.

They bring their significant, you know, other. But this one lady was talking to another lady and she said, you know, I got to be honest, this is the first time that my husband, this is the guy I married. He hasn't acted like this since before he deployed. Like, this is the man that I married, him being here and being free and open with everybody. And that was impactful enough just for that statement. And then you go back and do some research. You find out he deployed four years prior to coming to our retreat.

And him, you know, being himself, like that was, you know, the trans. you know, the transformation he made there, and that's what the spouse took away from it. And then, you know, they're like, this is the first time I ever got to go on a trip where everything was set up and catered to his injuries or her injuries. And I didn't have to overthink it or overwork. You know, kids are like, it's better than Disneyland world. And they're crying when they're crying when they're crying in the camera's on. No, I'm kidding.

You know, they're crying when they have to leave because they say it's better than Disney World. And no offense to Walt, you know, he does a great job. But, you know, that's how we measure success. And we have these veterans that we had one gentleman that's a job. Triple ampute, you know, both legs, one arm has gone. The other one's like mingled up. And he's like, I can't shoot bow and arrow. I'm like, yes, you can.

And we showed him how we built the harness for him. And we were able to do that. And you know what? He was able to take the harness home and he shoots in his backyard. Now it's one of his favorite things to do. So we're not only giving them one week that's great out of 52, we're giving them the ability to take these things home with them. And 52 weeks out of year, they know they can still be successful and active with their society and families.

And that's what we're going for. So that's a really long way of saying, hey, guys, donate to the Travis Millett Foundation. We're always going to do the right thing. I don't pay myself a dime. And I just want to keep giving back. And Mike Roe believes me, what else do you need to know? And that's what I want to say is tell people if somebody wants to give money to your foundation, where do they go? So Travis Mills Foundation.org, you guys can get involved.

You guys want to come volunteer. We have a lot of people doing that. We're just so thankful that people will help me champion this mission forward. We started out with a $5,000 donation from Kelsey and I. And now we've grown to one of the top veteran service organizations. organizations in the nation. And we're going to be able to operate 42 weeks out of the year with families, we believe, after we put this $6 million building in the ground, that we're breaking ground on September 11th. And I'm beyond words with the support that I've gotten throughout

the years with just my wife and I from, you know, this small town thinking like we're going to have a pretty normal life than having this happen and then decided we want to give back and do some good in the world. And people just want to, you know, they just help me out. And I just can't, I can't thank them enough. Well, you may be beyond belief, my friend, but you are not beyond words. Trust me on that. Whatever else that IAD did, it did not impact your larynx or your ability to form thoughts and express them. Thank God. But look, it's impossible to compliment you really anymore.

You've heard all the words, so I'm not going to drag you down the inspirational alley. I got time. I got time. All right. Well, then I'll tell you this. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I ran into some guys a couple weeks ago.

And I actually made a video that I was going to send to you, but I didn't because the guys in the National Flooring Association, do you know who these guys are? Like Carpet 1. Chris is a? Yeah. Right. So I meet him and the tunnels to towers guys are there. And they're telling, you know, yeah. Well, I know Frank. In fact, if it works out, I'm going to do something for them.

They're doing a thing on September 11th and I'm going to impersonate a narrator for some of the stuff. Aren't you doing something on September 11th, Travis? Yeah, I thought he had plans for... Yeah, I thought he was coming by to see you. What's up at that? I'm recording it tomorrow and it's going on to a thing on... If I could get up there, I will. Believe me, you know I will.

My buddy Pete said he'll send a plane. I mean, you're gold. He wants you to come out this Wednesday. But, you know what? I got his email for you. You're going to look so good. I'm sending his email on. You know what I'm doing this Wednesday?

If we could just bring this back to me for a moment, ever so briefly. Yes. Yes, absolutely. I'm shooting this Wednesday, the new promo campaign for Dirty Jobs, which is coming back in, it looks like late October. Yes. Was that just a fist pump?

Did you just do a fist pump with nothing but a shoulder? Yeah, but you felt it and you knew what it was. You know what it was. But hey, that's amazing. Congratulations. Seriously. Truly, that's awesome. Well, it's kind of tragic, too.

I mean, I'm older than I've ever been and I'm still hanging on as tight as I can of that old format. The shows look great, and so I got to do a thing on Wednesday for that. But September 11th isn't until that's the following week, right? Well, it's September 11th, so I think whenever that, I think it's like two weeks, three weeks. Like the day after the 10th? All right. Before the 12th.

What did I say earlier? There's a fine line between a hero and an asshole, but I think we've finally crossed it. You leave the door open. I'm sorry. If you go back when you listen this year, you're like, September 11, that's on the That's on the 11th of September, genius. I got it. I got it.

You know what? I think, Chuck, I think we also have the title, a fine line between a hero and an asshole. I love it. That's what I was thinking. That's a good title for this one. That's the way I heard it. Hey, man, you're my friend, and it was nice of you to hop on here last second as we navigate our way toward the future of whatever podcast landia holds for us.

You know, I'll do whatever you need, whatever you need it. I was dead serious before about that show. It's not a show, folks, about life on the foundation, although I'm sure that would be a piece of it. This is a show about the lunatic you've just heard, living life, as Ernest Hemingway said, all the way up. This guy doesn't hold anything back. You may even say he goes out on a limb, no matter what he's. does.

This new reality show, I know, Chuck, it wasn't better. This new reality show has to happen. It has to happen. And I'm committed to doing whatever I can to get it on TV or whatever passes for the delivery system

of the future. I love it. I love it. And I know with that endorsement, I'm going to have a show. So in the spring, when we go full board, you get the team up here. You're going to have the best summer of your life in Maine. I'm going to make sure of it. Because you can't narrate it just watching it. You've got to be here. live it, feel it. I got to be there to do it. Thanks so much for your time. I know you're a busy guy.

I know. I'm kind of a big deal, Traff, as people say. But what about our friend, Mr. Cotton? Is Tim Cotton still doing his thing? Oh, T.C? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm actually, I'm going to steal his platform on his Facebook page because his bank award, which is only 60,000 people has like 300,000 or 400,000 followers. I'm going to steal that for the gala we have going on Sparral. I've got 100 more tickets to sell. I'm going to use his platform and sell him. And he's going to be here. Then my brewery's going to be called the White Duck Brew Pub because he saw that in 1900s. And I'm going to take the duck of justice that Tim Cotton has made so famous and say that the white duck's his brother.

And I'm going to just piggybacking on people's fame, you know. Look what I got right here. This is Tim Cotton's book, The Detective in a Dooryard. I should be plugging yours, but I don't have it. And you know why? Because I got a letter from a kid about four months ago who was feeling super sorry for. himself and asked me, I think his parents asked me for some words of wisdom, right? He was in a hospital, all kinds of bad things that happened. And I'm like, I got nothing. I literally signed

your book. I signed your name. I autographed your book with your name, but I also wrote that it was me who signed it. And I sent this kid your book. So that's a long way of saying, I'm going to need another book from you. You got it. I'm in the process of a new one, too, based off resiliency, it's going pretty well. So it should, I don't think it'll be out this year, but probably, you know, July 4th next year at the latest. So I'm pretty proud about it. Come back on the podcast.

I'll flog the hell out of it. Appreciate that, sir. Man, you're a champion. I hope you have a great, fantastic rest of your day. And I just appreciate your time. Are you kidding me, dude. Thank you for making time for us. We're huge fans.

And is it still okay to say thank you for your service or does that just get on your nerves? Oh, no. Thank you for your service. I don't mind saying that to you. I mean, you have given back and done so much for everybody. No, not me, genius. You, you, you. Yeah, it's fine.

I just had a bad day at work, but I do appreciate it. And thanks for the support. A fine line, my friend. A fine line. All right. I miss you. I'll talk to you soon. Thank you.

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