The Way I Heard It with Mike Rowe - 218: Scott Flansburg—The Human Calculator is on a Mission

Episode Date: September 21, 2021

The Human Calculator, Scott Flansburg stops by to demonstrate his Guinness world-record abilities, introduce Mike to a better calendar, and explain why he is determined to uncover the real story of how basketball was invented. 

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episode number 218, and I call this one, the human calculator is on a mission. Because he is. I just had, with my dear friend Chuck, the most insane conversation, not the most insane conversation I've ever had, because I've had some crazy conversations with my old friend Scott Flansberg, the human calculator. But Chuck, you have to admit, that was a conversation for the books. It really was amazing. I can't imagine how his mind was. works, but it works at a at a degree that I can't really comprehend. Yeah, I mean, I've known that about him for a long time. We go back about 30 years or so.

We talk about the night we met in the middle of the night on QVC. We talk about Scott Flansberg's obsession with numbers and his belief that he can, he can unlock a human calculator in anybody's mind. and he's been doing this all of his life. You know, I don't, I didn't want to turn the whole conversation into a bunch of circus tricks, but I'm glad we took a couple of minutes, Chuck, just to explain and demonstrate what he can do because it's still, to this day, it still freaks me out. Yeah, he did some stuff, which you'll hear in a moment,

where he just takes numbers and adds them quicker than I can calculate them with a calculator. And divides. And some tracks. And look, he holds Guinness World Records in the wide world of numbers. He's also on this mission to literally change the way we track time. He has developed an entirely new calendar, super intuitive, 13, 28 day months, with 0-0 being New Year's Day. And we talk about all this stuff. But really, the reason I wanted to have this guy on is because he is somebody that I think fans of this podcast.

are going to want to know. His life's work has been that of being a human calculator and changing the way we teach math. But he's on a brand new mission now. He's returned to his hometown of Herkimer, New York, and he's partnered up with some guys, and they have made a pretty extraordinary claim, that claim being that basketball started in Herkimer, New York.

It's not a new claim. There's been a lot of controversy out there for years about where the game began and who is really credited for starting it. The smart money and the traditional story goes with James Naismith, who over 100 years ago was credited for this and is still credited to this day. Scott Flansberg tells a very different story. He is committed to revitalizing his hometown. He's got all kinds of plans in the works to do that, but at the center of it is to correct the way most people heard it with regard to the beginnings of basketball. It's a, it might be a quixotic journey, Chuck. I have no idea if he's going to

pull it off, but listening to him talk, I kind of feel like if anybody can, it might be him. Oh, he's determined for sure. And he feels like he's, he's got righteousness on his side. He's got the truth on his side. And he feels very, he seems very, convinced of that. So it'll be interesting to see what he uncovers. Well, we make the point a lot on this podcast. We're always looking for people on a mission. Those stories are always fun to write about. And if you can actually get them in person to talk to, it's never a bad hang. And this is a really great hang. Scott Flansberg is a man on the mission. And this is episode number 218. The human calculator is on a mission. And it all starts right now.

This is the way I heard it. All right. Yes, we have voice prints, Chuck. Once again, this appears to be working. Hallelujah, amen. There you go. So Scott Flansberg, I sit here, I look at you on my screen, and you know what?

I'm doing the math, which I know is a scary thing for you to hear from me. But I think it was this month 30 years ago that you and I met in the middle of the night on the QVC cable shopping channel. Am I close? 30 years, one week, one day. But who's counting? I'll tell you who's counting. Scott Flansberg.

You know, is it fair to say the one and only human calculator? I think you were at a time, but among your many quests over the years, haven't you unlocked the human calculator and, I don't know, like a billion people or so? I hope so. It's a dream come true. And Regis Philbin gave me that nickname on my first ever national TV interview. And at the end of Regis and Kathy Lee, he goes, Scott, you're like a human calculator. and that's where I got that.

That was a good one. Chuck, I don't know if you know this story, but when I met Scott, I was at a low point in my QVC career, such as it was. Were there any high points in your QVC career? There were moments. But I was working the midnight to three shift, and Scott, I think, had been making appearances throughout the day. And that morning in the host meeting, when I had already been up for roughly 20 hours,

I got the 4-1-1 on this guy. And honestly, I thought he was a, I thought he was a con man, right? Some guy that can do things with numbers and he's selling workbooks to change the way kids think about math. I'm like, oh, whatever. So now I've been up like 30 hours. It's midnight, and this guy's in the wings. And he is Scott Flansberg, the human calculator. And I think I introduced him as Stan Freeberg, the Abacus man.

Exactly right. And I was laughing so hard coming out of backstage to go on stage. I knew it was going to go great, Mike. That was the funniest thing. And it broke the ice, you know, because I'm trying to talk about math. A lot of people get nervous, anxious, things like that. And, you know, you made me laugh, which made it easier for me to communicate my message. That was a lot of fun.

Well, the first thing you did was you actually put your money where your mouth was. Because I was on a campaign at that point to get myself fired as many times as possible. over the course of a month. And I was on a roll. So I thought the first thing I'd do is embarrass you by saying, okay, 318 divided by 9. 35.333333. Yeah. Right. Or 411 divided by 12. Well, that's 34.25. Chuck, do you have a calculator? I do. Oh, good. And look, apologies, Scott. For the last 20 years, everywhere I go, somebody's going to ask me what my dirtiest job is, right? I know what I'm asking you to do right now is bark like a seal at the circus, but I need to establish your bona fides.

Thank you, Mike. And I appreciate it. And I think the way to do it is, is, you know, doing random operations and stuff is cool. But doing my world record is what really got me where, you know, I'm going, if you will. So, Chuck, just for fun, clear your calculator and punch in five plus five and hit equals, and it's going to say 10. but if you hit equals again, it should automatically add five more and say 15. And if you just keep hitting equals, it'll keep counting by five.

So I discovered I could do that with any number when I was a kid. So clear the calculator, Chuck. And don't even tell me the two-digit number you're punching in. Like use 87, 63, 59, whatever you want, make it tough. I can't use 87 now. Yeah, right? I was just subliminal. Nice.

Try, Scott. Yeah, way to go. And so after you punching that two, two-digit number, then hit plus, and then hit the same two-digit number again and hit equals. And you're going to tell me that starting two-digit number. And I'm going to start adding it to itself, counting by it. And you just take equals each time I say the next answer. And you just keep up with me.

Okay. 63. 126, 189, 252, 358, 358, 258, 3158, 178, 178, 188, 171, 187, 14, 171,-19, 1-190-2-6, 0-1-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3. 8, 64, 9, 1, 2, 1, 5,7, 5, 1, 6, 8, 1, 1, 17, 0, 1, 1, 7, 6,0, 1, 1,000, 6,000,000, 1,8,000,000,000, 1,8,000,000, 1,8-8-0-0-0-0-0-0. I was like, 8-1-1-8-1-8-1-1-1-0. So, it never, it never gets old. And something like that happened within the first 20 seconds of me meeting Scott, except it happened on national TV. And I got, you know, the hairs on the back of my neck stood up because modesty aside, it's rare that I find myself face to face with somebody who not only can do something I can't do, but can do it at a level that is so profoundly humiliating.

There's really nothing else to do except step back and go, oh, okay, well, what we have here, one of the Avengers? One of the superheroes broke out. And now what are you going to do? And literally, Chuck, a half hour later, this is a bit of a bit of. supposed to be a 10-minute presentation. He's on stage a half hour later. We're talking about a mission. And Scotty, that's really why I wanted you on today. From that night we met in 1991, you have been on not just a mission, but you are Don Quixote. You are Sisyphus. You are the embodiment of a man on a mission. And a lot of the stories in this podcast are about people, right, who wake up

agitated because the world is not exactly the way they think it ought to be. And so when we met, you were on a mission to confront innumeracy, which was a word I didn't know existed. I think you might have made it up. But to change the way people count, to change their relationship with numbers, to get zero back into its proper place on the number line. Before we discuss your other various missions, how's that one going? Amazing, Mike. And thank you for recognizing that it is a mission. It's not just a random product. I mean, this has turned into my mission. And honestly, Mike, when I met you, my show was all about me. It was like, look at what Scott can do. Look at what he can do. Count, count, count, fast. And after a few years of that, a little girl stopped

me after one of my shows and said, can you show me how you do this or that? And I showed her. And I saw the reaction to the kids learning. And that got me more inspired than me doing what I was doing. And so I flipped and focused completely on how can I communicate what I'm doing to children so that they can learn how to do this. And then in 1999, had a weird moment. I was playing golf with Alice Cooper on 9-999 right before we were all going to die at Y2K. And I was on the 18th green. and I invented a new calendar

and it was coming out that day and I was all excited and Alice for some reason at the end of the round on the 18th hole he goes hey 18 1 plus 8 is 9 today's 9 99 how come 18 adds up to 9 and I said Alice that's easy

any number times 9 the answer adds up to 9 like 3 times 9 is 27 2 and 7 is 9 4 times 9 36 3 and 6 is 9 he goes okay I don't care and I'm driving home thinking about this. And I had invented a 13-month calendar, and I looked at the number 13, and for some reason,

my brain went, 1 plus 3 is 4, 13 minus 4 is 9. And I just started laughing out loud. Like, what a weird coincidence to notice that on 9, 9, 99, at 9 o'clock in the morning, unless. And a few minutes later, I'm going by my microwave, and I see the number 11, and I just go, one in one is two, 11 minus two is nine, and I just sat down and I was like, what is going on? I thought it was like, I thought it was like a practical joke or, you know, I don't know. And so I started writing down two digit numbers, three digit numbers, 10 digit numbers, bank account

numbers, social security number, everything went back to nine. I called my high school immediately and asked for my old algebra, or geometry teacher and calculus teacher, Tom Thomas, we call him T squared. I get a hold of them in the teacher's lounge. And I said, T squared, write down 22. Two and two is four. 22 minus four is 18. One and eight is nine. And I show him a few numbers and it works. And he does his age and it works. And he goes, well, maybe it only works for two digit numbers. And I go, so no, it's working for all of them. And he goes, well, I don't know, good luck with that. And I didn't know what to do with it. So I researched it. couldn't find anybody to documented this in a way that made sense. And so I spent two years

travel in the world and figured out a purpose for this pattern. It's just not a cute trick. There's a purpose for this pattern, Mike. And so that's what's taking me this long is if I ask you right now to prove to me, what's one plus one? Well, I believe it's two. And if you had to prove it, there's not many things you could do. There's no scientific check. You punch it into a calculator. You count objects. You memorize it. But that's it. There's no equation. to check one in one is two or two and two is four. But now, Mike, you know the secret to numbers is every number goes back to nine. Every number becomes a lesson. So think about the number 11. One, one. That number teaches us one plus one. You know it's two. You've memorized this two. You've

checked us two, but now you can plug it in and see if it's right. What's 11 take away two? Nine. If you get nine, everything is fine. If you don't. And conversely, if I say, if I say 11 is 1 plus 1 is 3, right? If I get that wrong and then I take 3 from 11, I wind up with 8, so I know I'm wrong. Correct. It's a built-in check. It's a perfect, Mike. So let's try 22. 22 teaches us 2 plus 2. Chuck, you've memorized that's 4. You've seen it enough, right? But now plug it in. What's 22 minus 4? 18. If your answer adds up to 9, everything is fine. It's a simple checker for the human brain to learn arithmetic. So my mission now, Mike, is as the human calculator, is to reach every student on the planet

Earth before they're nine years old. So when they're nine, every number they see every day for that whole year will go back to their age, the number nine, and make them feel like every number is their friend, teach them all their basic math facts, how to add, how to subtract, how to learn some logic. And that foundation will allow our children to go much higher in mathematics as compared to right now where our kids are just memorizing the math. their math facts, which is the worst way to do it because math makes sense. It's logical. You don't need to memorize it. But yet we make our kids memorize their math facts when we haven't given them

a class on how to memorize large sets of data. So it's a double whammy that just paralyzes these kids' progress from understanding numbers. So I believe this is what I just shared with you is what I call chapter zero. And that's the first lesson that I remember you sharing with me way back when, when we started counting, you were like, no, no, no, you don't start with one, right? If you start with one, there will be no fun. That was sad. Because zero is the hero. Like, zero is the first thing on the number line. So, so what are the consequences to an otherwise enlightened society who forget about zero? What kind of problems do we cause for ourselves as a result of that?

If you don't count zero, everything goes wrong. When you turn on a calculator, The only reason it works is when you turn it on, it starts at zero. That's what allows you to arrive at the right answer. If it was wired to start at 1 or 10 or 100 or anything else, your calculator ain't going to work. We don't count zero in time. So that's what inspired me to invent a new calendar that incorporates zero. But here's the other thing, Mike, is every math class in the world has a number chart that goes from 1 through 100. You've seen it.

We've all seen it. And that's wrong. It's not 1 through 100. It's double zero through 99. There's a hundred two-digit numbers, double zero to 99. And when you arrange that that way, double zero to 99, symmetry explodes off the screen. And I have created patterns. Yeah, patterns galore.

And I've created a coloring book that helps people discover all these patterns. And I've discovered hundreds of patterns in this number grid by asking a better question and looking at it a different way. And it took me years, Mike, but it's now down to where it's the simplest thing. that you can expect from your child to learn when it comes to arithmetic. There's nothing simpler, and if they can't get it, they aren't going to be able to do much more. We have no hope of covering all of this, Chuck, but his calendar, I'm telling you, I've spent, and by the way, sidebar, but I don't know if you knew this, Scott, but Chuck and I spent a few days at your home in Arizona when you weren't there years ago.

Yeah, and it was awesome. Do you remember the first thing you said when you walked in to that house? I said, oh, this house needs to be a movie. We need to make a movie that takes place in this house. It's like up on this hill overlooking the whole city. There's a beautiful pool. It was the first real person's home I'd ever been in that had, what do you call it, a suit of armor, just standing there. I was like, who's this dude?

My favorite. I'm a jelly, man. Very complicated life. Must be. My favorite part of that house is the waterfall, you know, in the back to me, that just was where I meditated. And oddly enough, that's where I had a lot of my epiphanies. You know, it was living there in 99, 2000 when I discovered the calendar and the nine pattern. Scotty, that's where I was sitting out there with you when you said, what if New Year's Day was the zero day?

That's right. And what if instead of 12 months, there were 13? Yeah. If you had 13 months in a calendar year, then every month would have 28 days. And if every month had 28 days, then you would know with certainty what every day was based on its date looking forward. Please explain that again because I think it's kind of based on the Mayan calendar, but with some twists.

Yeah. With less human sacrifice. Yes, we hardly ever kill anyone now for getting to date. Well, it worked in reverse because I was actually visiting an elementary school in Paradise Valley, Arizona, on 5-599. It's vivid in my brain. And Cinco de Mayo, and a little girl, the end of the show, she asked me to count by 28. So I said, 28, 56, 84, 112, 168, 196, 224, 252, 280, 308, 336, 364. And I was like, hey, that's almost a year.

How come we're not doing 1328s? So I'm driving home thinking about it. And I'm sitting there and the sun's going down over Phoenix and it just hits me like a tidal wave. Count zero. Count zero. Make zero January 1st and then have zero month and a zero day and it makes 1328s 365. And I. Well, are you sick of it yet?

Are you sick of AI hogging up all the headlines and suck. up all the bandwidth. You find yourself wishing we lived in a simpler time. Do you miss the rotary phone? Well, get over it. The genie is out of the bottle. The poop is out of the goose, I'm afraid. AI is here to stay. And every business in the country is asking themselves the same question. How do we make it work for us? Well, the answer to that question varies, but you'll find it in a free guide that you can get right now at netseweet.com slash Mike. It's called demystifying AI. It's totally free. It's essential reading for anybody trying to make sense of a future that appears to have arrived yesterday.

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It's filled with super useful information. And again, it's free at netsuite.com slash mike. That's netsuite.com. Slash, Mike. You know, it was overwhelming because I was like, holy cow, we're all going to die in seven months from Y2K. Maybe I should run them with this thing, you know, and see what I can do with this calendar. So I had a little personal Y2K that year, but I took three months. I took the whole summer off.

And you know my friends, Mike, that were there over the summer and spent the whole summer with me and supported me in this effort. And I dove deep on every calendar on the planet Earth. And I wanted to see what the advantages and disadvantages were of keeping track of time. And when I realized that a 1328 calendar makes sense to our human brain and our body, because the brain understands it every month, 28 days. So the first is always a Monday, like Mike was saying. The fifth is always a Friday. The 12th is always a Friday.

The numbers would always be the same day of the week. So you don't have to be a human calculator like me to calculate what day of the week it's on. You can just know it. And the other thing is the human body is a 1328 time machine. the human body has 13 major joints and we have a 28 day biarrhythm and that wire that's how her body is wired so if we used a calendar that made sense to our brain and our bodies we would be able to see patterns much more easily and so i've actually published the 13 month calendar for the year 2023 and people can download it for free at my site and all i ask people to do is download it for free put it on your your desk and just when you start scheduling it 2023, put all your bills and your schedules and different things on there. And I promise you, you will see so many patterns pop off of that calendar that have been disguised by this Roman calendar. And Mike, not to go dark here, but the Romans are evil. I'm just kidding a little bit.

But the Roman numerals. I dated a girl from Sicily. See, so you know. Rough. Yeah. Well, here's what's crazy. Is the Roman numerals, if you remember when you were growing up, it was I is one, V is X, X is 10, and so on. Well, if you add up the first six Roman numerals, one, five, ten, 50, 100, and 500, those add up to 666. And we have a Roman calendar that paralyzed the human brain from understanding time and numbers, because if you met a human calculator 2,000 years ago, there's no numbers. It would have been, what's I, I, V, X times, I, you know, I mean, you can't. You can't. You can't. You can't. You can, you calculate letters. And so the Roman numerals just paralyze the human brain from progress. So

I don't, my goal, Mike, is I don't want to wait for Y3K. I really, I want, I was hoping Y2K, but now here's the other thing, guys, is that it took me years to figure this out. But for a while, I was like, how do you change the calendar? I mean, who do you call it? I mean, I got to get a hold with the Pope. You know, who do I know that knows the Pope? And I get, hey, you know, we're going have to cancel this Roman thing and go with this new human calendar. And that's when it hit me. I don't need to do that. There are currently 41 calendars on the planet Earth that are used, Hebrew calendar, Muslim calendar, Chinese calendar, on and on. So I'm just introducing the next one, the human calendar, a calendar that makes sense to humans. And I'm hoping that businesses will use

it because it logistically, and for financial analytics, it's unbelievably efficient. But in our Socialized. To understand, look, we have to understand just how screwed up the Roman calendar truly is. At a glance, hey, here's a month with 30. Here's some with 31. Here's one with 28, but only, you know, every four years. I mean, how we got to this place, it's like the frog in the boiling water, right? I mean, nobody in their right mind would have signed off on such a convoluted scheme.

we had to be slowly exposed to it. And now it feels like it's too late to go back, but you say no, it's never too late. Never too late. And the whole Roman thing, just so you guys know where that came from, what a mess this calendar is we're using. January is a two-headed god that looks into the past and the future.

February, nobody can spell it. March, April, May, and June are all old Norse gods. July is for Julius Caesar. August is for Augustus Caesar. September is a Latin word sept, meaning seven, but September's the ninth month. Oct. Don't!

It means eight. October, Octopus, eight, but it's the 10th month. Nove is Latin for nine, but November is the 11th month. And deck means 10, but December is the 12th month. And there's only two months in a row that both have 31 days. And sure enough, it's for Julius and Augustus, Caesar. July and August both have 31 days in row. They were fighting over who was going to get 30, 31.

So they both took 31, and that's why February got rocked a little bit. So it's just a big ego trip. The calendar is an ego trip. And the people who invented the calendar, It was Julius Caesar and he ran down and hung out with Cleopatra and she introduced the 365 day year to him and he took it back to Rome and all that stuff. But these people thought the earth was flat and that the earth was the center of the universe when this calendar was invented. And it literally makes no sense. If I asked you today, Mike, how many days is it until your birthday or until Christmas shut down?

You can't go. I could because I know how to crunch numbers, but 99% of humanity can't do that. This calendar is paralyzed. And now with every month having 28 days, if you say, oh, we're three months in a week out, you can say, oh, I could do three times 28 plus another. So there's a chance of getting it. So, yeah, it's my mission. There is an explanation. I mean, it's almost as if somebody set out to deliberately make time and math the enemy.

If we were to construct a construct, essentially, that intimidates people with. with its incredible convulsion, what would we do? And we'd probably start with time. Chuck, to really, this is something Scott did the night I met him, too. Do you know the day that you were born on? I do. And I also know I wrote down a few other days because I know he does this skill.

Bring it, Chuck. Would you mind, Scott? Because I think it illustrates, you know, the fact that you can do this was the first, That was the second time, actually. I thought, okay, it's only a matter of time until this guy like sprouts wings and flies off or does something else inexplicable. But, go ahead. My birthday is July 16, 1963.

Tuesday? Correct. April 15th, 1912. Oh, Monday. Yeah, that was when the Titanic Sun. Yeah, that's right. March 4th, 1921. That was a Friday.

That's right. That's when President Wilson died. July 4th, 1950. That was a Tuesday. Yes, and I have no idea what the significance was that way. It just popped up when I was looking for what day of the week is. And Chuck, here's what I'm doing, is when you tell me a date, here's what I have to do to calculate this. And not to go too deep on this either, but I discovered this pattern on 888.

And then I had the whole thing on 9-999 with Alice, right? But on 888 is when I became a human calendar. I had just gotten out of the Air Force and I was in West Palm Beach and I discovered a book in the public library. And this guy said, there's a pattern in the calendar. And if you do this and that, and you might be able to figure out the date. So I wrote it down on a little index card in the library, and I flew to Phoenix the next day. And when I landed in Phoenix, I had wired this algorithm into my head. So here's what you have to do.

You have to take the year plus the year divided by four to calculate how many leap years have occurred, and then the date, and then a value for the month based on how many days are in each previous month of that year. And you add all those numbers together and take that total and divide it by seven, because there's seven days in a week. And the remainder of that division tells me what day of the week that date was on. So if the remainder is zero, it's a Sunday, one is a Monday, and so on. And when I wired that in and I realized how difficult it was to calculate the day of the week of a date on our calendar, that's when it hit me like, we need a better calendar.

And so I'd been asking that for years. But even the fact that you can do that, because that equation you just went down, I'm already like I didn't I don't have it memorized you know that that's amazing to me and my question to you is do you have an ability like what was her name who was on taxi the woman on taxi Mary Lou Henner. Yes she remembers every day of the she remembers every what she had for breakfast it's not that she remembers it it's that she can't forget it right what a nightmare it's a curse that's a that's not that's not what you have your your special gift is just with talent with

with with numbers crunching numbers. I am a number cruncher. I never went above geometry calculus much, you know, a little bit. But I just was so into numbers and arithmetic. And when I saw this pattern for the calendar and that I could do it in my head so quickly, now when I perform at schools and corporate events and things, that people get a card from us for stuff. And there's a space to write down your birthday.

And underneath it says Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and so on. And then a spot for me to autograph. And so the kids walk up with their name, Bobby, and July 15th, 2016. or whatever, and I circle Tuesday and I autograph it. It takes me one second. So I'll have 300 kids into school and I can do 300 cards and 15 minutes. And the teachers are like, what's going on? And then those kids go home and they're like, hey, was I born on a Tuesday?

This guy did it in like one second. Now those kids are going home saying, well, if it was a Tuesday then, why isn't it a Tuesday now? What's up with the count? It gets him thinking. So the short version, Chuck, is what he's trying to do and tell me if I get it wrong, Scott, but in a very basic way, both with the calendar and with enumeracy itself, you're trying to make math less intimidating, you're trying to make it fun, and you're trying to unlock what you believe everybody has,

which is the potential to be their own human calculator. The problem is the deck is so horribly stacked against us that it really does take time and effort and focus to unlock this thing. However, if you understand the principle of adding back to nine, if you understand the principle of a more simplistic way to track time, then that human calculator switch becomes a lot more accessible. And for 30 years, man, you've been out there singing a version of this song, and I must commend you for it.

Well, thank you, but it's funny to start visiting schools, riding a bike to schools. I didn't even have a car yet and just donating my time to the schools and then they end up performing for first families like the Obamas and the Clintons and the bushes and royalty around the world and, you know, Chairman of World Mass Day for several years and went to Australia, New Zealand, and several countries around the world to celebrate the fastest human calculators around the world. Dream come true. You know what, Scotty, screw the royalty. I was with you at the dog track in Daptow in the

back of beyond in Australia, and they brought him out there in the middle of this thing, Chuck, to start calculating the odds during the dog races. man, when you see Australian's heads start to explode, like on the other side of the planet, because math is truly, along with music, I think, maybe the only universal language. And Scott speaks it. He's fluent. Scott and I traveled all around the world. We went through South America.

I've seen him in school after school after school. So I don't want to blow too much sunshine. I just want to say that I would take exception to the one thing you said earlier with respect to numbers. That's really all you do. It's not. You've used numbers. Let me compliment you like this. You're the most deceptive athlete, I know. Scott Flansberg, if you're watching this, you're going to look at him and go, this does not look like a guy who's going to pose a real threat on the badminton court or the squash court. But he's going to beat you. He's going to beat you at both. He's going to beat you at pool badly. He's going to run dozens of balls at a time. And just to make it super annoying, he's going to yawn. He's going to yawn. and check his messages while he does it. Okay.

You want to shoot three-pointers on the basketball court? He's going to beat you. He beats you in all of these things, not because he's got some preternatural physical gift in my view and with respect. I think you win because you see the angles. Golf. And I think you exploit the angles. I mean, I'm sorry, I buried the lead.

Scott can drive a ball off a tee, what, 360 yards now or something like that? Yeah, I've hit over 350. several times and I'm a four handicapped and play all the time and golf is all angles. It's my favorite favorite thing. So look, this is kind of a clunky pivot, but as I mentioned earlier, the real reason I want to talk to you today, you know, and everything we've done so far is just to establish the fact that you're not a random schmuck off of the street who has a new mission, but you have a new mission. You've moved back to your hometown of Herkimer, New York. And you are right on the verge, I think, of picking an enormous

fight in the wide world of sports. And I'm going to let you run with it from here. But if I'm understanding what you're proposing, you're about to tell the world that James Naismith, the virtually undisputed creator of basketball, is not the guy who is, invented basketball. And it's not Springfield, Massachusetts, where basketball began. And the Hall of Fame, the Basketball Hall of Fame has gotten it all wrong because all of this somehow happened in your modest hometown of Herkimer, New York. And good God, man, you're committed to spreading this story to the world. And I guess my first question is, how's it going? Incredible, Mike. I got to tell you, just the origin of this was two years ago, I came home

because my dad and his wife, my stepmom had health issues and they were both passing. And so I came home for several months to help out. And because of their treatments, I'd have a lot of downtime during the day. And I took a walk down Main Street, Herkimer, walked into the historical society and a volunteer named Ted Adams, 86 years old, used to run the Chamber of Commerce, you know, one of those kind of guys. I said, hey, you know, my dad was born in Herkimer. I was born in Herkimer. Tell me something about Herkimer that would blow me away.

And he goes, well, you know about the Baslow basketball book, right? And I said, no. And he goes, well, there you go. You need to read that. And he hands me in this book called I grew up with basketball. It's right here beside me by Frank J. Baslow. And this guy was an immigrant, came in to Herkimer when he was a little kid, turned out to be a ball boy at the YMCA where basketball started.

And he wrote this book to tell what really happened and how basketball started. So I drove back to Phoenix after all this stuff happened in Herkimer back home. where I've been for 30 years, and I read the book, and I was just floored thinking, wow, if this book is true, how is this story not told by the Baselow's, by Herkimer, by the Hall of Fame? I mean, what's going on? And then COVID hit, and all the schools stopped having people visit school, so there goes my thing, which I spend most of my time at. So I had some downtime in 2020. So I said, you know what? I'm going to dive deep on this book and see if I can prove that this book is true.

And if it is, maybe revitalize Herkimer, the village, because it's in a rough time right now. And I'm telling you, when you read the first four chapters of the book, you can picture you with your buddies in a gym, with a ball, and with a basket, and sitting there trying to figure out how to make it a game. And those four chapters lay out how everything happened to begin basketball. And this book talks about Naismith and how the timelines are different. So that's what inspired me to get on this road. And then I've got a team together. Then I started the Herkimer 9 Foundation, which is a 501C3. Sorry, sorry, sorry.

Sorry. Yeah. My job here is to keep an eye on your brain, which is going to move faster, right, than the average brain. So you're talking about timelines. So the first date that I think matters is the accepted date for the first basketball game, which according to Naismith's Wikipedia page and everything else I've read, happened when? Well, there's January or February 1892. There's two dates that have been popped around, one where one game happened,

but the other game was the first attended. So there's a little bit of difference there. And that's what's peculiar because the Basel book, I grew up with basketball, says that the first game was in February of 1891, February 7th of 1891. And Lambert Will was a 16-year-old volunteer at the YMCA and Herkimer at Main Street. And he came up with basketball. And he took it in. He had two baseball teams come together.

And they beat each other up for two months, trying to figure out all these rules. And after they did, they eventually sent those rules into Springfield. They never heard back from Springfield, not just Naismith, but anybody. Why did they send them to Springfield? Well, at the end of 1891, Springfield solicited all the Northeast Region YMCA's for a winter game, something to be played indoors because it's too cold outside for cardio. And so that's when Lambert Will said, hey, we got a game. We've been playing it all this year trying to figure it out.

I'm going to send it in. And he sent it into Springfield. Never heard back from them. And at Springfield, at this point, is an instructor named James Naismith. Dr. James Naismith, whose job it was to come up with a game like this. So he received, we believe, that letter from Lambert Will with the rules of basketball. And Lambert Will did not receive any credit for that invention. And Naismith and Springfield ran with the idea.

idea and Dr. Naismith became an incredible promoter of the game of basketball. But just to show you how weird this gets, guys, is at the 100-year anniversary of basketball in 1992, Lambert Will was finally celebrated in the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame in Springfield. And they contacted the family and said, hey, we're going to put Lambert Will in, do a display. The Will family sent this display. And Lambert Will is celebrated. in the Hall of Fame, but that display disappeared, and nobody's seen it since, and I believe it's because of the contention of the timeline that you just referenced. Let me see the cover of that book behind you, because I've looked at it myself, and I know that, yeah, that's an interesting photo, but there's, there are other photos inside that seem to be at the center of this controversy, and I should say, at least from what I've read, this is not a brand new revelation. You know, people have been disputing this for years. But there's the photo that I'm looking at right now. And that is a photo of the Herkimer 9 and the guy's holding a basketball

in the middle. And I can't quite make it out, Scott. But what's the date on the ball? It says 91.92, meaning 1891.92. So that picture was taken by a group of kids in Herkimer that played a game against Little Falls, which is our neighbor here in Mohawk Valley, and other teams populated, Utica, Albany, and these are all true. We've been researching this. We've found documents, articles, references to the game. So this was all happening in Mohawk Valley in upstate New York for the whole year of 1891. And Springfield only heard about it at the end of 1891 and took off of it in 1892. Okay.

Now, you know that this is going to be hotly contested, right? I mean, this is, if you're not a basketball fan, and Chuck, neither you nor I are true basketball fans. We enjoy the sport. We've been to some games. The average person is going to look at this and be like, whatever. But for a real fan, what you're suggesting is the equivalent of saying Babe Ruth never hit any home runs.

or George Washington really wasn't the first president. I mean, this is the idea that Dr. Naismith invented this game is dogma, right? And the fact that Springfield, Massachusetts is considered to be the home, that's also dogma. What does it mean for Herkimer? If you can, and I think you've hired some forensic experts to look at this picture, to verify the dates. If you succeed in doing all of this, what's the point? what does it do for Herkimer looking forward? And what's it do for you?

Yeah, thanks, Mike. I appreciate the opportunity to go down that road because 28 miles down the road from Herkimer is Cooperstown, New York, and the baseball Hall of Fame. An hour down the road is the soccer Hall of Fame, the boxing Hall of Fame, the Running Hall of Fame. All these are within an hour of Herkimer, New York. So there's a very interesting region already.

I want to celebrate Lambert Will. I believe Lambert Will deserves to be celebrated. When I went to Springfield and to the Hall of Fame, I noticed there's a space underneath a Naismith's picture on the big wall there. And it's just a big empty space. And I was like, oh, they got room for Lambert Will. So that sort of got me going. And, you know, it's contentious.

I agree. But we're just looking at the evidence, Mike. And I believe that if we can prove that Herkimer contributed to basketball in the way that we're talking about here, you know, just to give an example, Baselow and Lambert Will in 1956, now, you know, in their 60s, they went to Springfield. to fight to get the Hall of Fame in Harkhamer, New York. They went up against the commission, a Springfield commission that was trying to convince the rest of the world that the Hall of Fame belonged in Springfield. And that's why we didn't get it.

But we have now, due to our research, obtained all those documents, all those lawyer's notes, all the meeting notes, the brochures and pamphlets that were created by Springfield to convince everybody, and the defense that Lambert Will and Frank J. Basel put up to get the Hall of Fame in Herkimer. And they got shut down and Herkimer didn't have any money. So it was easy for Springfield to keep pushing.

The pushback you're going to get is going to be enormous. I can't say that enough. That's why I thought you'd be fun to talk to about this because it's another mission. I mean, to get the world to think differently about zero is a hell of a thing. To get the United States and Western civilization to embrace a new calendar, that's a tough sell. I can't decide if this is going to be easier or harder than all of your other many quests. But the real reason that I really wanted to talk to you about this is because I very nearly published a story on this podcast a year ago about the invention of basketball. The big reveal was basketball itself and James Naismith.

And I wanted to tell the story of the original peach baskets because I heard Naismith interviewed, you know, a very old recording of him talking about the first basketball game, which was a brawl. Guys knocked unconscious, guys getting their teeth knocked out. It was basically, it was a blood bath. And I know that Lambert Will, you know, whether he came up with it originally or not, I don't know, but it's easy to track the suggestions that he made over the years, from a steel rim to a net, to the dribbling of the ball, to the jump ball. All those things are undisputedly his. But why in the world doesn't he have the credit you think he needs? It's amazing. The first rim is an easy story because the baskets were falling apart after 20 minutes. And so they had to

reinforce it. And the blacksmith on Main Street and Hercorp, we even have his name is the one who put the first rim around a basket. And then during that next practice, Lambert Will said, hey, we don't even need the basket. Now if we got the rim, we just need like a curtain or something so you can tell if it went through or not, and Lambert Will's mother knitted the first net, and she's known as the Betsy Ross of basketball. And now here's the other thing that's interesting, guys. I just went to Springfield to the Hall of Fame just for a reality check

to make sure I was, you know, because this is, you know, it's a big one. And the first thing you see when you walk in the Hall of Fame is exactly what you just mentioned, Mike, the original rules, the original 13 rules of basketball that Naismith pinned onto a wall and said, hey, guys, here's the game, we're going to play it. Okay? What's bizarre,

and I just would love the clear explanation from Springfield is on the bottom of that document, there's a date, and it says February 1892. And we have found the first flyer that Naismith produced about basketball, and it says the same thing. Basketball was originated in Springfield in 1892. But if you look at that document today, whether at the Hall of Fame or in Kansas, where it currently is after being paid $4 million for, the date has changed on that document to December 1891.

They pushed it back a couple of months. I just want to understand why, because that's where the beginning of the confusion of the timeline lies. My guest today, Tom Olbenice, is an American giant, and I'll tell you why. on a fundamental level that the business of mining is a non-negotiable prerequisite of our civilization and our economic independence, just like the business of making things. American Giant knows this, which is why they committed themselves 16 years ago to make all their excellent clothing right here in this country. It wasn't easy, but they did it. They sourced locally grown cotton, And they built factories in towns across the nation where they could hire hardworking locals who cared about making a quality product.

And then they went about the business of gently reminding people that when you buy a piece of clothing from American giant, you're not just buying a high quality sweatshirt or t-shirt or another pair of jeans. You're investing in a local supply chain. You're supporting communities from the Carolinas to California. And you're getting a piece of clothing that won't just survive. the wash, you're getting a garment that'll get better with age. Check out their high-quality staples, hoodies, teas, denim, built to be worn year after year at American-giant.com slash mike. It's quality you can feel and a true American success story that you can be proud to support.

Use code Mike. Get 20% off your order at American-giant.com slash mike. American Giant, American Made. Giant American Made. And so we want to ask those questions. Conspiracy? Well, a lot of weird things have happened. The display in Springfield that nobody's seen in 30 years since when it first came up.

The picture looks a little different in the Hall of Fame that it did in the book. There's all kinds of weird things like that. And then, oddly enough, Dr. Naismith's grandson in 2010 time went around the country, with the 13 rules in a gold briefcase to sell them. And he was just trying to sell them. Indian casinos offered them $10 million. They just wanted proof that the document was real so they could validate it.

And he told them to, you know, move on and he'll go get money somewhere else. Don't need to validate this. These are the things. Well... So hold on. This is the grandson of the largely undisputed creator of basketball with the original 13 rules,

which are really laughable if you read the rules I have, right? He is affirmatively back in 2009, 2010, trying to sell them. Go ahead. I love what happens now. Right. And so he jumped in an RV. He went across the country. There's a video.

It's not even DVD. You've got to find it on VHS. I think it's called Basketball Man. And you can see him going across the country meeting with Jerry Colangelo and Michael Jordan and all these big stars of basketball saying what a great guy, grandpa was. And he was trying to sell the 13 rules. And finally he got it to Sotheby's and Sotheby's accepted it. And they decided to auction it off in a group of Kansas people, a guy in Kansas inspired a group out of Kansas. And they raised several million dollars and bought it at Sotheby's for over

$4 million. And now that 13 rules are in Kansas. And May Smith ended up in Kansas. He was only in Springfield for two years or so. Then he went to Kansas. He spent the rest of his life. He's buried there. He was the head coach, first head coach at Kansas. So the Jayhawks, that whole thing. So that's why they enshrined those 13 rules in Kansas because that was his home. A couple of things you may or may not know, you probably do. But this is what attracted me to the story in the first place. It wasn't my love of basketball, which is minimal.

It was this auction at Suthbees. It was the fact that these 13 rules went for, I think, $4.7 million. But there was something else for sale that same day, Scott, in that same exact auction. By the way, the guy that got the rules who organized the bidding, his name was Booth, David Booth. The other thing that was for sale was the original copy of the Emancipation Proclamation, signed by Abraham Lincoln. On the same day that these 13 rules, which you're alleging, may not. have even been written by the guy to whom they're credited. The same day, that thing, that might be a forgery of sorts, sold for well over $4 million, the original copy of the Emancipation Proclamation,

sold for 3.5, 3.6, something like that, nearly a million dollars less for the document that freed the slaves than these 13 rules for basketball, which I just think. is crazy. It's crazy. But now it's double crazy because what are you saying? Are these rules, were they written by Ney Smith at least? Were they signed by him? Or did Lambert Will actually write the original rules as well? I'm not clear on that. Layton Lambert Will's life, he actually met with the author of the book, Frank J. Baselow, and they sat down and went through and made sure all the details were correct. And Lambert Will signed an affidavit. with a list of all the rules that were sent to Springfield

in the year of 1891 and took a picture as the judge and the author were standing over him, signing this affidavit. We also have several letters, personal letters from Lambert Will, expressing his humility because he really didn't care about the credit. After he was a teenager, he was gone, he went to the war, he went and started a family,

an incredible man through his whole life if you research him. But he just never cared about it, about the credit for basketball. And even at the end, Basil said, How come he didn't fight for the credit? And he goes, hey, I'm just glad that a cabbage and a basket turned into a game that has inspired so many of me around the world. Tell me more about that. He's throwing cabbages and, what, a bushel basket at some point in his youth?

Yeah. And, you know, the Baslow book covers this, but there's a little bit of a confusion on the timeline. But just the basics are is that Lambert Will is a 16-year-old kid and his mom has him in the cellar separating cabbage. He's got two bushels, one for soft, one for hard, so she can make different foods with the different type. And so he's throwing one, throwing one. Well, a little later on the day, he goes to the general store on Main Street and Hercimer, and there's a bushel basket, and there happened to be, same thing, you know, some cabbage. So he started throwing them just messing around. And his buddies jumped in, and the store owner was like, what are you guys doing? They tried it. And other people

wanted to try throwing it into the basket. And Lambert, who was the volunteer at the YMCA running the sports program, said, hey, maybe there's something to this. And that's when he invited the two baseball teams to the YMCA the next day. It was January of 1891, January of 1891. And two teams show up, Mike. Two baseball teams, okay? So baseball team has nine guys. They were called the Herkimer YMCA 9 and the Herkimer Businessman 9. And when I saw that in the book, I just fell out of my chair because I'm from Herkimer and I discovered the nine thing. And the first team is called the Herkimer 9. And so that's why we started the Herkimer 9 Foundation. I was like, we need to tell this story.

And so we've got the most amazing people in our community behind this. We are buying the buildings that played a role in this. We've got the Quackenbush factory where Mr. Quackenbush, you haven't heard his name yet, but he was the president of the YMCA in Main Street, Herkimer. And his wife raised the money to open the YMCA. And his son is one of the boys in the picture that I just shared with you of the winning team of the first game. Didn't Quack and Bush like invent everything? Everything.

Like extension ladders and all that stuff. I mean, he's up there, Chuck, with our guy from six degrees. Hiram Maxim. Oh, right. Yep. This guy, he was a legend. And his name should be better known. Yes.

And he started as a apprentice at Remington Arms. And he was a prodigy, you could tell. But he invented the extension ladder while he was working there and sold the patent for $500. moved his operations to Herkimer and started building this factory, which turns into this amazing, beautiful 140-year-old fortress where 50 patents that he came up with were all produced and made, manufactured in this building. And for the last 15 years, it was falling into the ground. And we just got it a month ago. And we're going to restore it and turn it into a STEAM Learning Center to capture the essence of Mr. Quackenbush. and the top floor is going to be a business incubator

to help propel more ideas out of Herkimer. So that's how we captured Mr. Quackenbush. Number two is Frank Baslow. He wrote the book and became the promoter of basketball. And here's another crazy fact guys. The first traveling team from Herkimer to go visit YMCA's to spread the name of basketball, the game of basketball was called the Baselow Globetrotters.

The first team called the Globetrotters was from Herkimer, New York. And when Mr. Baslow retired in the late 40s, that's when the Harlem Globe Trotters got it. So he was on the road for years doing this too. So Mr. Basil, they have a library. So we're restoring that library to celebrate Mr. Baslow. And now we've procured 28 acres at the end of Main Street that's on a hill overlooking Main Street. And we're going to build the Lambert Will Event Center. And it's going to be 2,000-seater.

We're going to have basketball tournaments and to host our team called the Herkimer Originals, which is an ABA semi-pro basketball team. Thanks, Mike. Look at you. You sent me a hat, dude. If nothing else, I'm good for wearing a hat. And Mike, you know, Alice Cooper comes into this all the time. Not only the 9-99 thing and being one of my buddies for 30 years and playing thousands of rounds of golf and all that stuff,

we're on the golf course. The day I bought the franchise for the ABA to have a pro basketball team in Herkimer. And he knows the Herkimer story. He's been listening to me for a year at this point. And he goes, you got to call him. originals. And so that's why we're called the Herkimer Originals, because we had the first rim and the first net. And if you look at the O, it's a rim and a net. So Alice goes, you got it. The names the original. And after he hits a shot, he walks to the cart. And on a scorecard, he draws

originals with the O as a rim and a net. And he goes, there's your logo, man. Good luck. And so Alex Cooper, your golf buddy and dear friend for decades now, has designed the for a new basketball team centered in Herkimer that is going to be a part of the ABA. You're buying the ABA back, essentially. That was the league with the red, white, and blue ball? Yeah, yeah. So we bought a franchise and we're asking the league to move their headquarters to Herkimer, New York because of the story.

And we'll see how that goes. But because we're so close to Cooperstown and all baseball teams go to Cooperstown, why not have all basketball teams come to Herkimer just 28 miles down the road? We're actually the throughway exit for Cooperstown. And we're on the Erie Canal. We have the train going by, everything. You got the Mohawk River. And by the way, if memory serves, when you go into Cooperstown,

one of the first things you see is an explanation about Abner Doubleday, who if you poll 99 out of 100 baseball fans will tell you that's the inventor of baseball. Is it? No. more bad news you had to know what to believe scotter first zero then nine

then the calendar now baseball basketball and don't get me started on baseball but baseball all is about the number nine there's nine innings there's nine players in the batting order

nine guys on the field nine strikes is three outs 90 feet from base to base nine plus zero is nine each team plays 81 home games eight and one is nine 162 total, one six and two is nine. ERA is based off the number nine.

A baseball is nine inches in circumference. A baseball has 108 stitches, 108 adds up to nine. So baseball is all about the number nine. So I love it. How many outs in an inning? 27 outs. No, I'm asking you. How many outs are in an inning?

Six, but 27 outs per team per game. 27, two and seven is nine. Oh, there you go. It gets crazier. Stop crying. It's not going to win it. I'm telling you. And Mike, you asked me one question I didn't answer properly, is what would this do for the village of Herkimer?

A hundred years ago, you guys, just so you know, Thomas Edison picked Herkimer, New York, the village of Herkimer as the test site for arc lighting and lit up Main Street in front of a place called the Palmer House Hotel all along right next to the YMCA. And he lit up Main Street for the grand opening of the Palmer House Hotel, which was the most Regal Hotel in central New York at the time. the same week that the YMCA had its first basketball game, all happened in that one week. Thomas Edison testing arc lighting and Hercimer and the beginning of basketball, the first game. You know, the originals is a great title. It's a great logo.

But at the heart of original is origin. And the reason you're really here is because the origin story of all things is of great interest to me. and you know, you mention Edison. I know some of that story, but part of what Chuck and I just worked on on a show last year was the story of this guy

called Hiram Maxim, who, among other things, created the first light ball. He lost the patent. He was brilliant, but Edison was sharp and kind of sharky. So look, so much of what we're talking about goes to who gets the credit.

So much of what happens in my industry. I mean, God, the end of every show I've ever been on. There they go. Roll the credits. You know, I always thought they used to call them the, should have called them the blames. But regardless, we're terribly interested, right, in the origin of a thing. And I go back to my hometown, Baltimore. I'll be there this time tomorrow. I go back every quarter. I work on their tourism board. I try to help the reputation of my hometown in this day and age. the reputation of a town is like the reputation of a man. You could work your whole life building it up and then, you know, Freddie Gray, it's over, a show like The Wire. And suddenly Baltimore

gets redefined. Most people can't even pronounce Herkimer, much less fine than on a map. But you, the human calculator, have gone back to your hometown and forget the basketball thing. It's part of it. But it seems like what you're really trying to do is reinvigorate your home. And, you know, I spent a couple of minutes before we started chatting on the website, and I went to the Herkimer 9 Foundation. And, dude, you are out of control. You have whole renderings of what this city's going to look like. You have what looks like the largest basketball in the world on top of what appears to be some sort of a field house. What is happening in your brain, brother?

Yeah, that was a crazy day. You know, when I left New York with the book, I drove back home to Arizona and I was there for the winter. when I came out, because COVID stopped the school stuff, I was driving through Illinois. And middle of nowhere, and there's an exit coming up, and there's about a dozen attractions. And I said, what could possibly be out in the middle of nowhere? And I had to pull in. And sure enough, this couple had bought all the worst buildings on Main Street and the bordering street and tore them down and commissioned artists to build the largest thing in the world, the largest bird cage, the largest male. box, the largest golf tea, on and on.

And they're all through town. You get a map. And you can go around and get selfies with all these different things. The largest rocking chair in the world is on Main Street. And this is during COVID, Mike. This is in April, May last year, you know, 2020. It was packed. The coffee shops, the restaurants.

I had to wait in line to get a selfie at the rocking chair. Okay. It invigorated this town. And I asked the girls at the vegetable stand, what happened? And they told me the story. And I get back on the road and my first thought is, okay, what can I do to help Harkimer? And bam, where's the biggest basketball in the world? Turns out there is one.

It's in Knoxville, Tennessee on top of the women's basketball Hall of Fame. So I called them and they're not happy about my idea. But I mentioned to them that if you play basketball, you know that a woman's professional basketball versus a men's basketball is slightly smaller. So we're just going to do it proportionately. and that didn't go over well either. So, um, guys matter. I've been telling you this.

So hashtag too soon. Yeah, right, awkward. So, um, but we are going to, you know, now that we're an ABA team, we're going to use the red, white, and blue basketball. And we're going to put the biggest basketball in the world, um, right where basketball was invented in hopes that that attracts not only basketball fans, but just people that want to see oddities like I did when I saw that in, um, Illinois. So, yeah, we're going to do that.

And I'm also going to put up the biggest baseball in the world because Cooperstown is right down the road from our exit on the New York State Thruway. So we're going to help Cooperstown and do that. And next door in Utica is the number one semi-pro hockey team in America, the Utica Comet. And Rob Esch, the owner is promised to do the largest hockey puck in the world after I do the balls here in Herkimer. So we have the biggest balls in Herkimer. Big balls. I got to say, man, you got some pretty big. big ones right now. You've never shy away from a fight or a challenge. But as a guy who has always

tilted at windmills, is this the biggest? Is this the most ambitious? If you had told me 10 years ago that Scott Flansberg, the human calculator, holder of world records, would hole up in this little village in upstate New York and embark on a mission to not only reinvent his town, but to completely change the history of basketball. I'm not sure what I would have said. Here's what's weird, Mike. When it first came to me, I just thought it was no big deal. I didn't realize there was a controversy to it. I really thought, hey, this is easy. I met Jerry Colangelo 25 years ago. I lived on the same golf course. We played in tournaments together. I know Jerry. Charles Barkley was the first person I ever met on tour as the human calculator. My first radio

show ever, I walk in the green room and there's Charles. Barkley in Philadelphia as a 76er, and we had 30 minutes to talk. And we've been friends ever since. He's the nicest guy. He's giving me great direction, just a wonderful human. And so I thought. Sidebar. I got to tell you, we can circle back. But did I ever tell you about the time Charles Barkley bought me a chicken? He texted me after you guys left the restaurant. I took a picture. Because I immediately dropped your name because I know your pals. But Charles Barkley, apropos of nothing in Atlanta at I think the four seasons. I'm upstairs.

We've been shooting all day. I order a chicken and a glass of wine. And the waitress comes over with another glass of wine and says, this is from the gentleman in the corner. And I said, oh, that's very nice. I can't tell who it is. I look over. And she said, he bought the chicken too.

So I get up and walk over to say hello. And he turns around. And of course, it's Sir Char. Charles. Anyway, your friend bought me a chicken, which is awesome. And Charles is an incredibly generous human being. People might not know that as well as they should. But yeah, so I thought I could just go back to Phoenix and get this all straightened out over around a golf or something. And that didn't work out. So yeah, it's going to be contentious, Mike, but it is a monster. I didn't know what I was getting into. But I also walked down

Main Street, Hercimer, and realized that we're trending in the wrong direction. And with all this history to tell, you know, we're not asking them to move the Hall of Fame to Herkimer or anything like that. All we're saying is we want to celebrate Lambert Will properly. And these other two guys, Frank J. Baslow and Mr. Quackenbush, H.M. Quackenbush. And that's all I wanted to do, Mike. And that's why the foundation has turned into my monster. I really feel like I've had more impact, Mike, in the past year with my home village than 30 years with kids as far as when I walk down the street and see people getting excited about turning this around. And so I'm still a human calculator.

I'm going to do it the rest of my life. And I'm going to visit Baltimore and donate my time for you and your community, might, because if you spell Baltimore, that's nine letters. So why wouldn't I go to Baltimore? Because everything adds back to Baltimore. Oh, my God. Hey, Scott, if people want to follow you on social media, if they want to get involved in what you're doing, if they want to keep up with you,

how do they do that? Thank you, Chuck, for asking the Herkimer 9 Foundation,org. We also have a herkimer 9.com because some of the stuff doesn't fall under non-profit. So if people are interested in investing in these projects, that would be awesome. And then the human calculator website, humancalculator.com will handle all the math. And the one thing I didn't mention you guys is I also am starting event called the National Counting Bee. It's like a spelling bee, but it's a counting bee. And it's an annual event to promote numeracy that I'll be doing in America first and then in each country around the world.

And then we'll have an international counting bee. And I'll be doing that every year. We had some great sponsors lined up before COVID, and then all that happened and started everything's falling apart. So I'm starting over with the counting bee. We'll be doing it in the spring of 2022 is the inaugural USA National Counting Bee. But Mike, you're right. The basketball story has stolen the show.

It's consumed my being. I see that it's going to be contentious, but I also see the payoff being incredibly huge for our village and our community. So I'm all in just like I am with everything else. You know what I just remembered, and forgive me, I hope you don't mind me pointing this out, but there is a certain symmetry to all of this, and this is probably a pretty good place to land the plane, but weren't you homeless once upon a time? A few times.

You know, when I got out of the Air Force, yeah, 88, I got out and I went to L.A. because I got kicked out of the Air Force on purpose so I could start the human calculator. I had reenlisted for a lot of years, and I was like, oh, man, that's too long. Regis was calling all these shows. And so I got out and I was invited to go to the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson. And so I flew to L.A. I pawned the car I had left, a 65 Buick Skylark for a thousand bucks. I flew to L.A.

cost me $700. I landed in L.A., went to the Tonight Show the next day. And they said, hey, this is great. Give us your number and we'll call you in a few weeks. And I go, no, no, no, I need to be on the show like tonight. Do you know who I am? And so I got nowhere else to go. I had nothing.

I slept on couches and then I got really lucky. I mean, another guy I want to point out because Mike, you and I met with him once was John Lovitz. John Lovets was performing at the improv at Melrose. And he was walking by me on his way out. And I said, holy cow, John, nice to meet you, my name Scott. He goes, who are you doing? And I said, I literally just landed in L.A.

And I'm trying to start this thing where I could do numbers in my head. And he goes, what? And I took a minute and told him, he goes, follow me. He takes me in the back. and there's two dozen of the biggest comics in the world. You know, Billy Chris, all these amazing people sitting in the back of the place, just hanging out. And he goes, I don't know, just, you guys got to see this.

And they bring out a calculator and I do my thing. And John goes, you meet me tomorrow at 12 o'clock at Planet Hollywood. I'm going to buy you lunch and then I'm going to drive you around L.A. and introduce you to every super agent you need to meet to see what you can do to help. And that's what happened. And that's how this all started. Unbelievable. What a great guy. What a great story that is. And John Lovitz has nine letters. So, you know, go figure.

I would expect nothing less. Oh, great. So, yeah, yeah, it was almost a few times, Mike. And, you know, my whole thing is about the number zero. And now zero is my hero because that has inspired me to help others get off that, you know, the zero that we do, but also zeroing in. I have zeroed in on a few things. You know, I can go all over the place. I'm zeroing. point in on a few things now. I'm zeroing out a lot of things that I don't need or distraction to me now. So I use that when I talk to kids too, as you know, zero is an important number, but use it not just for numbers in arithmetic, but in your personal life. Zero out the people that you don't need. Zero in on the people that you want to be around. Zero out bad habits. You know, just to help kids use numbers to, you know, help increase their self-esteem.

So I call it the I count foundation. And I feel like if I can teach kids to count from zero to nine, and it increases their self-esteem, I count, has that dualistic nature. So that's what keeps me going to. You know, I just feel like if I could get you more interested in life, Scotty, and I'm more passionate about this and that. If I could get you out of your shell, in other words, there's just no telling how far you could go. I'm sorry that I haven't seen you in person in so long.

It's been a weird couple of years, but we need to remedy that. It's so fasto, my friend. I'd be honored, Mike. I miss you. I love you like a brother. and I'm very grateful for this opportunity because I know this is going to be contentious. You guys might get a hit back a little bit to I'm in it for the war, you know, and I appreciate you guys giving me this platform.

It was much more comfortable than trying to go on like ESPN Sports Center or convincing. This is brilliant. And I really appreciate you guys with the candid questions and us being able to just nonchalantly talk about something that is potentially incredibly serious and is going to have ramifications for people around the world. So, dude, it's, it's a big deal. I mean, it's a big deal for Hercimer, but it's going to be a big deal for anybody who's attached to the way they heard it, right? This is the epitome of why this podcast is called what it's called. You know, so the way many, many millions of basketball fans heard it, James Naismith created this sport. The way you heard it, something very, very different has happened. And how this comes out in the wash is anybody's guess. But, You're welcome. You know, this is a modest little platform, but I'm glad you broke the news here because, honestly, ESPN, they did their take on this. They did a 30 for 30 about the guy who went on a mission to get those 13 rules at KU. You know, his mission to find David Booth, his mission to raise that money.

ESPN told you're going, I'm just going to call you David from now on because everywhere I see is Goli. You're poking the bear, dude, and I give you huge props for it, and I can't wait to see what happens next. Thank you, guys. The Herkimer Originals is going to be the team that goes around telling this story. You guys are invited to our first game. It's October 30th home game, and we've got 13 home games and 13 away games just to celebrate the 13 rules of basketball. What's that add up to? 26.

I think it's 26. No nine there, but we have one exhibition game, so that's 27. Two and seven's nine. Hey, man, I'll be at the first game if you let me sing the national anthem. Yes, you're in. I kid. Yes, please, Mike. I will pay for your ticket or two tickets at least, whatever you want.

Please come. Three. You know what? Nine. I want nine tickets. You get nine tickets. Mike, I promise you, it's hard to comprehend right now, but that evening in Herkimer is going to be a historic evening. You know, Alice Cooper might be here.

You know, he's part of the team. we really think we're going to have a chance to make a difference with this team. And I can tell you this, Mike, I could save the Quarkinbush factory. I could save this building over here, that library over there. But when you bring a sports team to a village or a town, and you can see the impact it has instantly on everybody, it's really going to be the machine that makes this happen. Ladies and gentlemen, Don Quixote, otherwise known as the human calculator,

best known as my pal Scott Flansberg. Good luck, brother. Thank you, Mike. Thank you guys. We're great. The ocean moves us, whether that's surfing a wave or taking in an inspiring view. The ocean feeds us. Sustainable seafood practices bring the ocean's bounty to our plates.

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